Navigating political outcomes and not losing hope

Another day, another election. This episode was recorded in the wake of the Canadian election. Murray and Josh share their thoughts about political outcomes, where our hope lies, and how God speaks through the circumstances in our lives. Join the boys as they dive in!

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Transcript

00;00;17;23 - 00;00;43;14
Joshua Hoffert
And I have only said he is here as you occupy it. But it's going to be more personal than ever, right? And so, you know, we're not drawn because that's our occupation. So just, an election doesn't change your assignment from the ward. It doesn't change your call to the father. It doesn't change how your call flows from the father.

00;00;43;17 - 00;00;50;14
Joshua Hoffert
It doesn't change your call to the father. It doesn't change your heart. The father doesn't change how you're going to move from.

00;00;50;14 - 00;01;00;20
Joshua Hoffert
The call to the father.

00;01;00;22 - 00;01;10;07
Murray Dueck
Welcome. Are you ready? Sure. Okay. Welcome, everybody. To voices from the desert.

00;01;10;10 - 00;01;21;07
Joshua Hoffert
From the desert. Those are desert. Oh, we did just hear the dogs barking so late. No, they got quite excited.

00;01;21;10 - 00;01;25;15
Murray Dueck
Sitting here looking right at me, I thought maybe I would. Yeah, I'm out of here, but.

00;01;25;16 - 00;01;29;04
Joshua Hoffert
Well, they got quite excited because you've got a huff trimmer.

00;01;29;06 - 00;01;29;27
Murray Dueck
Yeah.

00;01;30;00 - 00;01;30;15
Joshua Hoffert
Yes.

00;01;30;17 - 00;01;31;21
Murray Dueck
Big head right there.

00;01;31;23 - 00;01;33;05
Joshua Hoffert
There you go. You got some getting all.

00;01;33;05 - 00;01;35;13
Murray Dueck
Wrapped up in, like, my cords.

00;01;35;15 - 00;01;36;06
Joshua Hoffert
Yes. What?

00;01;36;09 - 00;01;45;05
Murray Dueck
I don't have any. Look at you. You got a cord is wrapped around your head. Oh, well, please leave. Please leave.

00;01;45;07 - 00;01;47;24
Joshua Hoffert
This is this is. You know, this is the joy of voices.

00;01;47;25 - 00;01;50;18
Murray Dueck
Talking to you listeners. Yeah. I'm not saying you please leave.

00;01;50;18 - 00;01;51;15
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, you don't leave.

00;01;51;18 - 00;01;52;13
Murray Dueck
No, you guys don't leave.

00;01;52;17 - 00;01;54;23
Joshua Hoffert
You don't hug the dog. Yeah. That's right.

00;01;54;23 - 00;01;56;03
Murray Dueck
Since when? Thanks.

00;01;56;06 - 00;01;57;16
Joshua Hoffert
Thanks for clarifying. There.

00;01;57;17 - 00;01;58;28
Murray Dueck
Yeah. There you go.

00;01;59;00 - 00;01;59;19
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;01;59;21 - 00;02;01;14
Murray Dueck
Misinterpretation of symbolism right there.

00;02;01;16 - 00;02;03;23
Joshua Hoffert
There you go. That's revelation. Right?

00;02;03;26 - 00;02;05;25
Murray Dueck
Interpretation. Application and timing. Not so.

00;02;05;27 - 00;02;13;08
Joshua Hoffert
That's well that's one thing we're talking about. We're talking about talking today is symbolism in symbolism. And in the.

00;02;13;08 - 00;02;14;10
Murray Dueck
Broader know.

00;02;14;14 - 00;02;36;25
Joshua Hoffert
Context of things, not just, you know, some we talked we've talked about dream interpretation before. You know, both of us, are proponents of that symbolism in the broader context of life events, things, the circumstances and how they play out, how God speaks metaphorically. We see it in Scripture where, you know, Jeremiah, what do you see? I see the branch of an almond tree.

00;02;37;00 - 00;02;57;18
Joshua Hoffert
Well, this means I'm ready and watching to do my word, you know? So what? What, like you sees a particular object and God speaks to him metaphorically through the object. You see a number of, there and especially Jeremiah. But, once Ezekiel as well is given many, oh, yeah. You know, take the scroll and eat of it.

00;02;57;18 - 00;03;23;22
Joshua Hoffert
The scroll represents this. So that's, that's in the context of a visionary experience. But Jeremiah seems to be just in the context of everyday things. Right. And even even Habakkuk. Right. Take this wife and and she's going to be ridiculously unfaithful. But the whole thing's a metaphor about. Oh, you mean Isaiah. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. And the whole thing is like, what.

00;03;23;25 - 00;03;26;13
Murray Dueck
Really struck me was like, wait a minute.

00;03;26;16 - 00;03;30;01
Joshua Hoffert
It's not like the abacus wife would be like that. Wait a second. What's he saying?

00;03;30;07 - 00;03;32;07
Murray Dueck
That's right. You know. Slander.

00;03;32;07 - 00;03;50;22
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Say how? Sorry, Josiah. And so take his wife, marry her. And it's going to be a total picture of how Israel is has abandoned the covenant. Right. And so we see there's obviously, in Scripture, at the very least, there's things that play out metaphorically. And so.

00;03;50;23 - 00;03;58;03
Murray Dueck
Oh, like all the time. Oh, you read past most of them. I mean, why not? Jesus as a baby get gold, frankincense and myrrh. I mean.

00;03;58;04 - 00;03;58;20
Joshua Hoffert
Maria.

00;03;58;25 - 00;04;12;21
Murray Dueck
It's an embalming fluid. I mean, I, I hey, nice birth, have some death. I mean, I mean, like, why? Because gold for king, frankincense for a priest, Merv for embalming. You know, they're prophesying who Jesus is and what he's going to do.

00;04;12;23 - 00;04;15;15
Joshua Hoffert
Probably unwittingly, to like, you know.

00;04;15;15 - 00;04;16;20
Murray Dueck
Oh, yeah, maybe they knew.

00;04;16;21 - 00;04;20;16
Joshua Hoffert
Maybe they knew. Maybe it maybe. My point is, they may have known. They may not have known.

00;04;20;16 - 00;04;24;10
Murray Dueck
I hope they knew, because then that makes that myrrh gift like worst.

00;04;24;12 - 00;04;31;06
Joshua Hoffert
If they sometimes these things, these things point like things happen unwittingly that point to.

00;04;31;08 - 00;04;32;12
Murray Dueck


00;04;32;14 - 00;04;57;12
Joshua Hoffert
What the father is doing. And yeah, that's all I meant by that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so we were. Yeah. Anyway. And, you know, the interesting thing about, in one sense, dealing with prophetic people, as many of our listeners, you guys know that Marie and I have been involved in prophetic ministry, training people to hear the voice of God, that kind of stuff, is prophetic.

00;04;57;12 - 00;05;05;14
Joshua Hoffert
People can very often tend to take, and people in general can tend to take symbolism too far. You know, I was like.

00;05;05;15 - 00;05;11;27
Murray Dueck
Yeah, if you're looking at it through your fears or your own desires or needs or what you think needs to happen.

00;05;12;00 - 00;05;12;18
Joshua Hoffert
I had three.

00;05;12;18 - 00;05;23;20
Murray Dueck
Red one were, not making it about a relationship with Jesus. We're making it about our need for control or peace, or I need this to happen and therefore gets us into trouble.

00;05;23;23 - 00;05;44;13
Joshua Hoffert
Absolutely. Like, I saw three red lights on the way to work today. That means I need to quit my job and move across country, right? It's it. People do that kind of stuff, though, and, they they read into the symbolism more than should be natural. But there are definitely moments where God speaks through everyday, ordinary events.

00;05;44;16 - 00;05;46;01
Murray Dueck
Oh, I'll tell you why. You want to hear a good one.

00;05;46;02 - 00;05;46;26
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah, go for it.

00;05;46;27 - 00;05;55;00
Murray Dueck
So I know this guy. Just give me a second to, He's passed away now. Henry Schmidt was his name.

00;05;55;01 - 00;05;56;16
Joshua Hoffert
Oh, I know that name for somebody.

00;05;56;16 - 00;06;16;08
Murray Dueck
And, Yeah. And he he ran this charismatic Bible school, and, you know, they're halfway through second year, and God says, quit. And he's like, what, halfway through, I can you could students love this guy. And school's doing well and he just can't shake it to him and his wife both quit. And so he can't, you know, keep going.

00;06;16;11 - 00;06;34;06
Murray Dueck
This it's a sense of conviction. So he quit. And, you know, nobody's happy. The school's not happy. The students are, you know, made quite a mess, which is good thing he quit because about a year and a half later, the guy who ran the school got caught having an affair. So he got to miss all of that. But at this time, a year and a half earlier, he looks like a really bad guy, right?

00;06;34;06 - 00;06;56;16
Murray Dueck
So one night, he, rents all these movies. You know, this is he went to the blockbuster. It was still around. This is somewhere in year 2006, probably, and, and he's like, I do the right thing. And he just rents, like, five, six movies. And there's this old Nick Nolte movie. Whatever happen to that guy? Anyway, I've been watching that, and it's a baseball new movie where Nick Nolte is the mentor.

00;06;56;18 - 00;07;24;13
Murray Dueck
You know, this movie's about the, like, the 1915 Yankees or something, right? And so Henry and his wife's gone to bed. He decides, I'll just going to play this last movie, you know, and he's sitting there thinking, can I do the right thing? Did Henry Schmidt do the right thing? And suddenly on the movie in the boat, is Nick Nolte being the mentor in these young ballplayer, and he's mentoring this guy, and he says to the young ballplayer in the boat while Henry is thinking about these things, have you ever heard of Henry Schmidt and the guy and the guy in the boat at Henry Schmidt?

00;07;24;13 - 00;07;39;24
Murray Dueck
Both go. What? Have you ever heard of Henry Schmidt? Henry Schmidt was this famous ballplayer, and he quit. And you know why? Because Henry Schmidt knew the right time to leave, and he goes, yeah.

00;07;39;27 - 00;07;40;15
Joshua Hoffert
Wow.

00;07;40;17 - 00;07;42;03
Murray Dueck
He did the right thing.

00;07;42;10 - 00;07;44;10
Joshua Hoffert
That's. Yeah.

00;07;44;13 - 00;07;45;19
Murray Dueck
Stuff like that happened.

00;07;45;22 - 00;07;46;09
Joshua Hoffert
That's right.

00;07;46;10 - 00;07;48;10
Murray Dueck
I can tell you a bunch of those things.

00;07;48;12 - 00;08;08;06
Joshua Hoffert
Well, that. Yeah. And that's the interesting thing about it, all right, is how do you recognize those? But. Well, you know, one of the things we wanted to, Yeah, to lean into just a bit and talk about, I think we've alluded to the encounter I had or the moment I had at Rushmore. And so I wanted to share that because that's another one of those stories.

00;08;08;08 - 00;08;42;23
Joshua Hoffert
And when we're moving across the country. But the other thing is that we've just had a national election in Canada, and people are waking up. Well, people on the East Coast are waking up today to the news. We on the West Coast, generally for 3 to 4 hours behind, generally get, some of the updates in bed and what seemed like a lock a sure, there's I think it was actually Harper who said a couple months ago that there's no way the conservatives can lose this election based on how deeply unpopular the liberals were.

00;08;42;25 - 00;09;33;17
Joshua Hoffert
And in just a few short months, that has completely flipped. The liberals won, a minority of the controlling seats. But they but the liberals won and the conservatives lost, which kind of has thrown everybody and which has thrown the expectations of conservative people, I should say. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's I was saying before we went live, that if you know, if we're citizens of, we're not citizens of this earth, right, we're called to be strangers or sojourners on this earth, where anticipation is a heavenly city that our our ruling and governing, Metron or sphere is not Canada or America or wherever you're listening from, but you're in

00;09;33;17 - 00;09;59;06
Joshua Hoffert
a heavenly city and you're anticipo ING a heavenly city, and that heavenly city is here as you occupy it. But it's going to be more present than ever in the future age. And and so, you know, we're we're not throne because that's our occupation. So, an election doesn't change your assignment from the Lord. It doesn't change your call to the father.

00;09;59;08 - 00;10;25;07
Joshua Hoffert
It doesn't change how your call flows from the father. It doesn't change his view of you and his view of earth and creation and the mission of the gospel. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't. It has no bearings whatsoever on that. And as, frankly, it's just like a tiny little drop of water in the ocean, right? Thinking about Augustine, trying to contemplate the Trinity.

00;10;25;10 - 00;10;45;23
Joshua Hoffert
It's just a little drop of water in the ocean or a grain of sand on the seashore in that sense. Right. It may. There's no the only way it impacts us is because we emotionally and viscerally respond to it. And as as my wife has become fond of saying, the last couple of hours that Twitter's just crazy right now, ex is just crazy right now.

00;10;45;23 - 00;11;08;04
Joshua Hoffert
People are so upset and angry and and I get it. If your hope isn't in the heavenly city, then of course you're going to be frustrated and upset and that's fine. You know, I get that I'm I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But for one, you know, we don't. Murray and I have striven very hard not to make the voices from the desert show political.

00;11;08;06 - 00;11;10;05
Joshua Hoffert
It's just a it's just a big.

00;11;10;08 - 00;11;10;19
Murray Dueck
Bit about.

00;11;10;21 - 00;11;13;18
Joshua Hoffert
That. Yeah. That's right. Try tries the right word.

00;11;13;21 - 00;11;16;15
Murray Dueck
Tries every once in a while. It's like I can't take this anymore.

00;11;16;15 - 00;11;51;06
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, when, you know, when you get prophetic, charismatic ministries falling left, right and center, you kind of want to speak about by political, I mean, we don't necessarily weigh in on world events. And, but this is, you know, that said, this is, the Canadian election is a big deal for many people. And so we want to do at least offer some, some thoughts about how you navigate the what, what could, could potentially be disillusioning disillusionment and disappointing.

00;11;51;08 - 00;12;16;16
Joshua Hoffert
And how do we navigate that? And so I wanted to tell you this story about Rushmore as a means of helping you navigate whatever kind of circumstance you're going through, because I found this incredibly helpful. So, you know, most of the people know that we moved from P.E.I. to British Columbia, Prince Edward Island in British Columbia at the end, at the end of last year, the beginning of this year.

00;12;16;18 - 00;12;46;10
Joshua Hoffert
And, we took a hiatus from the podcast because of that, because we were on the road and packing and all that stuff for so long. On about day seven, I think it was as we were going through, South Dakota, it I realized, Erin and I realized that we if we played our cards right, we could make a detour and on the on the trip and go and stop and see Mount Rushmore, which was a thing I had never seen before.

00;12;46;13 - 00;13;01;13
Joshua Hoffert
And, something I always wanted to see but had never seen. And it was something Erin had never seen. She wanted to see. And we thought it would be a great thing to do as a family, as stop and see Mount Rushmore. So and for those of you listening that don't know what Mount Rushmore is, you can Google it.

00;13;01;14 - 00;13;25;14
Joshua Hoffert
Mount Rushmore, Rushmore is all one word. It's not a but there was a Wes Anderson movie called Rushmore Summit that has nothing to do with the Wes Anderson movie, which is a funny movie. But Mount Rushmore is an American, landmark. And it's it's a patriotic landmark that has the pictures of four different the faces of four different presidents carved into the side of a mountain.

00;13;25;16 - 00;13;40;26
Joshua Hoffert
And it's, Lincoln and Washington. And then, it is, what is it? Oh, it's the guy in the late 1900, late 1800s, and then the.

00;13;40;26 - 00;13;42;16
Murray Dueck
Oh, I don't even want to guess. It's the Canadians.

00;13;42;17 - 00;13;47;19
Joshua Hoffert
It's Rosa, the first Roosevelt. I think I'd be the first to. Yeah, Teddy Roosevelt.

00;13;47;23 - 00;13;49;08
Murray Dueck
Is the first Roosevelt. Now, whether or not I.

00;13;49;08 - 00;13;53;17
Joshua Hoffert
Think it's the World War II for the guy who was the president. World War during World War one.

00;13;53;20 - 00;13;55;03
Murray Dueck
World War one would have been.

00;13;55;05 - 00;13;56;06
Joshua Hoffert


00;13;56;09 - 00;13;57;18
Murray Dueck
Oh, Teddy Roosevelt.

00;13;57;20 - 00;14;18;26
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Anyway, anyway, you can look it up. So, so I wanted to say there's a famous American landmark on air and wanted to see it. So, this is the beginning of January. It's. Yeah, we're driving through South Dakota. It's snowing on and off. And as we're as we're getting closer, you know, we got a five hour drive to get there and four more hours of driving afterwards.

00;14;18;29 - 00;14;48;04
Joshua Hoffert
Because when you're making your trek across a country, it's quite a long drive. And, so as we pull off the highway in the mid to late afternoon to get over to Rushmore, it's about a half an hour drive off the highway. Off the highway we were taking, it started to get foggy and foggy and foggy as as we were climbing the hills, into the mountains where Rushmore is.

00;14;48;06 - 00;15;13;16
Joshua Hoffert
And, you know, we're we're seriously going, you know, 20, ten, 15, 20 minutes in or are we going to get there? And it's going to be entirely surrounded by thick fog, and you won't be able to see it. So Aaron was actually, googling like, can Rushmore and Fog and sure enough, there's, you know, people have posted on Reddit and various places where, you get to Mount Rushmore and all you see is fog.

00;15;13;16 - 00;15;30;06
Joshua Hoffert
You never get to actually see Mount Rushmore. And so we're going, you know, is this going to be a total waste of time? And as we're talking about it and driving up to it, I felt like I heard the Lord whisper, it's one of those quiet whispers where he said something to the effect that was, pay attention to how this plays out.

00;15;30;09 - 00;16;04;08
Joshua Hoffert
It's going to prophesy things to come, or it's going to become a prophetic word for you. You know, something like that. And, and so I just was I was just, just gave me pause. Right. It's this quiet, quiet, still voice in my spirit going in my heart, going with attention to this. So as we drive up the the very first thing that happened as we get to the gate for the national monument and, it's foggy, you've got to pay 15 bucks or whatever to park.

00;16;04;10 - 00;16;23;24
Joshua Hoffert
And I, we pulled into the there's nobody there, no cars, nothing. Right. There's people at the gate, manning the booth that work there, and I, I said, is there any chance that we're going to see Mount Rushmore today? And the first person, there was two people there. The first person just laughed. They just like. Like I was an idiot right there.

00;16;23;26 - 00;16;46;15
Joshua Hoffert
And the other person said, just wave them through. They can park in the bus parking lot. And, so we pull up into the bus parking lot. There's nobody else there. Maybe, maybe one other person is there. You know, it's just nobody there. And, we had the dog with us, and so Aaron had to get the dog out and take the dog to go to the bathroom.

00;16;46;15 - 00;17;02;09
Joshua Hoffert
I took the boys up to see Mount Rushmore and, the, the. Let's see if I can,

00;17;02;11 - 00;17;23;11
Joshua Hoffert
I'm going to bring up a picture real quick. So I took the boys up to see Mount Rushmore and, Photos. I'm going to bring these photos up. I took the boys to see Mount Rushmore and.

00;17;23;13 - 00;17;45;27
Joshua Hoffert
The Google photos. Yeah, here we go. I took the boys to see Mount Rushmore, and as we walked up the, the faces were just visible through the fog, like, barely visible through the fog. And, which, you know, I. So I exclaimed, like, I texted Aaron right away. I said, you gotta get up here like you could barely see him.

00;17;45;27 - 00;18;16;08
Joshua Hoffert
You can make him out just through the fog. So I texted her and she comes up about a minute later, and by the time she got up there, they were, they were totally gone, right? You couldn't see anything anymore. So for those of you that are, watching here, I'm just going to, share this so you can see here's my boys and, you can see just visible through the fog there.

00;18;16;15 - 00;18;41;08
Joshua Hoffert
You can barely make it out right there. You can barely make it out. So I texted Aaron right at that point, right, and said, get up here. You could just see him. So, so Aaron came up, and then by the time she got up, this is what you can see. I'll do this again. And it was totally obscured.

00;18;41;10 - 00;19;02;05
Joshua Hoffert
Right. This is like the difference of 2 to 3 minutes. Totally obscured. You couldn't see anything. So she took a selfie with Finley, going, like, we got to Rushmore and this is all I was able to see right. And, and I was super disappointed because I really wanted to see it. I wanted my wife to be able to see it, and I wanted my kids to be able to see it.

00;19;02;08 - 00;19;19;27
Joshua Hoffert
And we'd gone out of the way to do it. And it's our one opportunity. Like, how often do you get to drive through South Dakota? Yeah. And just happened to be driving through South Dakota. Right. You know, without actually planning on going there. And it's like I you I caught a glimpse of it just barely through the fog with the boys.

00;19;19;29 - 00;19;37;13
Joshua Hoffert
And then by the time my wife gets up there, it's totally obscured. So so I'm thinking about this still small voice in the back of my head, you know, pay attention to how this happens. And I'm going, okay, well, something profound is going to happen because I felt like the father spoke to me. But, you know, what's that going to be?

00;19;37;13 - 00;19;53;27
Joshua Hoffert
So we're waiting for like, a half an hour, right? 1 or 2 groups of people came through, you know, so there was one group of medical volunteers, I think that came as a group. Another couple people showed up and they would look for five minutes and laugh and then leave because it was like, we came all this way for nothing, right?

00;19;54;00 - 00;20;11;16
Joshua Hoffert
And we waited through all of that. So we're there for like a half an hour waiting and waiting and waiting. And I'm my eyes are peeled, right? I'm waiting for the fog to clear and, And I keep seeing wisps of it going up. Maybe. Right. But no. And at one point Aaron goes, well, I'm gonna go down to the gift shop.

00;20;11;18 - 00;20;35;23
Joshua Hoffert
I'll take the kids with us. You stay here if you want, but we got to get going pretty soon because it's after 4 p.m. and we've got another four hours of driving. Right. So I waited another 20 or 30 minutes while she was looking through the gift shop, and one of the workers actually walked by the the platform where, you know, the viewing platform, and, and called out to me across the courtyard and said, what are you doing?

00;20;35;23 - 00;20;53;22
Joshua Hoffert
You're crazy. This is stupid. There's no that's never going to show up. You can't see it today. The fog is out here. But I was the only person out there and they just yelled at me, right? I was like, oh, thanks. Wow. And, and so eventually I was like, well, you know, we're probably going to have to we got to go.

00;20;53;24 - 00;21;12;23
Joshua Hoffert
Probably not going to be able to wait around any longer. And, I, so I go back to the gift shop, right? Yeah. And Aaron's there. She's buying a couple things because you might as well actually have a Rushmoor shirt because she's thinking, where's will I get a picture of Rushmore, a shirt if you're not going to see it right.

00;21;12;25 - 00;21;35;28
Joshua Hoffert
And, Yeah. So I take the kids out while Aaron is paying for a couple mementos, and Findlay's turns to me when we get outside and it's a little ways, a little walk down to the gift shop, he goes, hey, dad, I think I can see Mount Rushmore. Yeah, specifically, I think he said, I think I can see the nose of one of the guys.

00;21;36;00 - 00;21;57;03
Joshua Hoffert
I was like, no, there's no way. And he goes, no, I can see it. And so I turn and look and I'm going barely through the fog. And what I think it, it actually might be faintly visible through the fog. And so I told Savannah, hey, go get mom. Whose are all this? Right. I told Savannah, go get mom and the boys and I booked it down to the viewing area again.

00;21;57;05 - 00;22;15;25
Joshua Hoffert
And I said, go tell mom. It's like you can see it now. It's just coming out. And so Aaron comes running down the road. The ava there's the avenue of the flags, I think they call it. There's all the states, the 50 flags of the states on either side. She comes running down with Savannah to see it, and we're so excited.

00;22;15;25 - 00;22;23;19
Joshua Hoffert
And this is what we see. Just like the fog clears.

00;22;23;21 - 00;22;26;04
Murray Dueck
Yeah. There is a light. Did you put that on there?

00;22;26;07 - 00;22;31;28
Joshua Hoffert
I know it because it was just it was just turning to dusk. And so they actually have spotlights that'll light it up so you can see it at night.

00;22;32;00 - 00;22;34;10
Murray Dueck
I see, I see, so,

00;22;34;12 - 00;23;05;17
Joshua Hoffert
So that so it just the fog peeled away for like five minutes so that we could see it. So we're celebrating. This is amazing. You know, as a family, it's such a great moment for us. Like we got to see it. We stuck it out together, all that kind of stuff. And so we stayed for a little bit, took pictures, laughed and and then eventually we had to go, you know, and, and by the time we drove and got around, there's another viewing angle you can see them from.

00;23;05;19 - 00;23;33;08
Joshua Hoffert
And by the time we got to the other viewing angle, driving down, which was like 5 or 10 minutes later, you can see them anymore. The fog came back interesting. Super thick. So it what we I caught a glimpse at the beginning. Right. It it completely obscures and nobody else can see it. And then after almost losing hope going back to the gift shop and resigning to the fact we got to move on without seeing the thing that we caught a glimpse of in the thing we came there for.

00;23;33;09 - 00;23;57;12
Joshua Hoffert
And all of a sudden, right, the the voice of my son goes, hey, look. Right? And so we go out there and we're able to see this beautiful sight and, and the and the Mount Rushmore being the founding fathers, essentially are the two primary founding fathers, Washington of Lincoln. Jefferson. Yeah. And yeah. And I think I think it's Jefferson and Roosevelt or Jefferson, you said.

00;23;57;14 - 00;24;23;19
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. So it's it's the guys responsible for the ideal, the the American ideal. And, what? And then Roosevelt was the guy responsible for essentially making America the the world stage player. Right. And so it's the it's it's the guy who's responsible for taking the expression and the thought of liberty and freedom for all to the world. Right.

00;24;23;22 - 00;24;43;11
Joshua Hoffert
So it's the Founding Fathers. So, you know, think of the word play there, right? The foundation of the fathers or the foundation of the father as well. And and so what what the Lord began to speak to me about this as I contemplated. What does he mean when he said, pay attention to this because it's going to become a prophetic.

00;24;43;11 - 00;25;06;18
Joshua Hoffert
It's going to become a prophetic word for you. Yeah. And I think it's broader than just me. I think it's a prophetic word for the season that we're in presently. And it is that there are things that you've caught a glimpse of. There's things of the father you've caught a glimpse of. There's things he's shown you. You've you've seen it through, as Paul would say, through a mirror darkly.

00;25;06;20 - 00;25;26;13
Joshua Hoffert
Right. You've you've caught a glimpse of the barest, visible outline of where the father's taking you, what he's spoken to you about, and who he is and what he intends to make your life about. And the enemy comes, and he tries to diminish and disintegrate the hope that you will ever see the thing that the father showed you.

00;25;26;15 - 00;25;43;00
Joshua Hoffert
But he comes. That's the voice of the enemy, right? You're never going to see it. Give up your hope. Walk away. It's crazy for you even to think that this could happen. There's no reason for you to stay here and linger. Just leave already, right? That's the voice of the enemy, right? It happened to us three different times, right?

00;25;43;00 - 00;26;02;18
Joshua Hoffert
And it was the first person mocking by laughing, the second person saying, just let him go through. They'll never see it. And the third person saying, you're crazy. Yeah. So the voice of the enemy came going, stop it. You're never going to see this. And it's crazy for you, and you've been to hope that it'll happen. But and we actually had to go back to the gift shop in order to wait in the gift shop.

00;26;02;18 - 00;26;23;00
Joshua Hoffert
Right. The gift is the Holy Spirit. And, and so we had to go back to the place of memory, right? Remembering who he is, the gift shops, the place of mementos as well. You get you get something to remember the journey. So to go back to the Holy Spirit and remember what the father's like, because that's what you're getting.

00;26;23;00 - 00;26;45;20
Joshua Hoffert
You're getting those pictures that are glimpses of the things that you've seen and remembering what he's like, and then listening to the voice, the childlike voice of faith in my son and, and not losing hope and continuing to glint, to get to gaze at the father, to continue to trust and hope that what he's showing you will happen.

00;26;45;27 - 00;27;10;05
Joshua Hoffert
And the the surety is he will lead you and guide you to the place. He said. He will lead you and guide you. Don't lose hope right. And that's what we ended up seeing was the last thing. Don't lose hope. You will see it right. And and so what I want to say that that has spoken volumes to me as we've done as we've navigated this whole move across the country, there's things you've caught a glimpse of when it seems like they've become obscured.

00;27;10;10 - 00;27;28;11
Joshua Hoffert
That doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means that the enemy's trying to convince you to lose hope. So just continue to gaze. Continue to trust. Remind yourself of what he's like. Find that place of intimacy in union with the Holy Spirit again, and continue to trust. And you will see the thing the father has been promising you.

00;27;28;11 - 00;27;58;24
Joshua Hoffert
And so there's been multiple times where I've gone farther. What are we supposed to be doing now that we've moved? And he said, remember Rushmore? Don't lose hope. You've caught a glimpse of something, but you haven't seen the fulfillment of it. Don't lose hope. And I and I think that when it comes to the won, the Canadian election, where people had placed a lot of hope and leadership change, and you haven't seen that leadership change, well, don't let the enemy prophesy your destiny.

00;27;58;27 - 00;28;17;05
Joshua Hoffert
Don't let him say, well, you know, Canada's fallen because your hope isn't in Canada anyway, right? It's it your hope is in the father. His goodness, how he's leading you, what he's like, the things he's spoken to you, the call on your life. You're called to him, and your call flows from him. He's got an assignment for you.

00;28;17;07 - 00;28;19;23
Murray Dueck
But,

00;28;19;25 - 00;28;22;20
Joshua Hoffert
Murray's not saying that to. What I'm saying is he's.

00;28;22;23 - 00;28;24;23
Murray Dueck
Being called by the gas company, which.

00;28;24;23 - 00;28;25;27
Joshua Hoffert
Oh, yeah.

00;28;26;00 - 00;28;28;11
Murray Dueck
Which means I've missed a payment or something.

00;28;28;11 - 00;28;33;20
Joshua Hoffert
Oh, yeah. That happens. And, Yeah, don't lose hope when you.

00;28;33;23 - 00;28;34;19
Murray Dueck
Yeah. So. But he's calling.

00;28;34;19 - 00;28;56;28
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so it's very easy to to let the obscured that in terms of the picture of Rushmore when the fog because the, the, the majority of our time there was Rushmore obscured by fog. It's very easy to let that dictate what you do when the thing that you've hoped for becomes obscured by fog and you can't see it anymore.

00;28;57;00 - 00;29;18;15
Joshua Hoffert
It's very easy to respond to that. And there's also also an almost an existential crisis that happens in people when they lose sight of the things they have hoped for. And the anxiety that happens within starts to make people try and manufacture something. We're going to start our own fire. Then, if we can't wait for the fire of the Lord, we'll start our own fire.

00;29;18;17 - 00;29;40;26
Joshua Hoffert
And so we're we're going to actually try even harder, implement more things, create more control and more structures rather than just going, let's pause for a second. Let's wait on the Holy Spirit and let him remind us of what the fathers like. So you can't. You can't let the fog predict your destiny. You can't let the fog be the thing that determines how you respond.

00;29;40;29 - 00;30;06;06
Joshua Hoffert
How you respond is remember what the fathers like. Continue to pursue him. Look at him. If you can't remember what he's like, read the scriptures. The scriptures will show you what he's like. Remember the moments you had with him and read the scriptures and and surround yourself by people that will point you back to him, right? And so when when you're in the midst of a potential disillusionment, potential disappointments, we had so much hope that this election would turn out a different way.

00;30;06;11 - 00;30;31;01
Joshua Hoffert
Remember that doesn't that's the obscured. That's the obscured, fog that doesn't predict what your future is like, that doesn't predict what the father is going to do. It actually has almost no bearing on what the father is going to do, because the father, his perspective, like you think about this. I've thought about this a lot, not in terms of the election.

00;30;31;01 - 00;30;53;01
Joshua Hoffert
Just over the years that the father says to Abraham that I'm going to judge the sin of the Amalekites, right? Or the Amorites is the amount. I think that's the malachite. And it's going to take 400 years for their for the judgment of their sin to be complete, right, or for generations, which is roughly thought of as 400 years.

00;30;53;04 - 00;31;14;28
Joshua Hoffert
And after 400 years, I'm going to bring you out of Egypt, and you're going to inherit the Promised Land, right? So you're going God doesn't think in terms of months or days or years. He thinks in terms of centuries and is going to he's going, I've got a plan. And his picture is so much bigger than our picture.

00;31;15;00 - 00;31;43;05
Joshua Hoffert
And his his goal is so much bigger than our goal. And we think in terms of outcomes. The election outcome. And he's thinking in terms of destinies. And so we have to reorient ourself back to what he's like, not what the particular circumstances are like. So my my hope for you is we're as there's kind of two fold in this is that you remind yourself of the examples that you have in the past of how of how the father has visited you.

00;31;43;07 - 00;32;04;08
Joshua Hoffert
And if you can't remember that, think back to the moment of salvation. What it was that like when you first met him, where he first touched you and your heart melted for for his truth and who he is? I think back to those things, but don't lose hope just because an election happens. And I hope, you know, in ten years people listen to this and they don't lose hope because, you know, some other circumstance happen.

00;32;04;10 - 00;32;26;20
Joshua Hoffert
Don't lose hope because circumstances played out in a way that you didn't anticipate. Just recognize that's just the fog. And the fog is it is designed to get you to lose hope, but the voice of the spirit will come. He'll remind you of the father's goodness, points you back on the on the on the right track, and that place of childlike trust and faith that the father's going to do what he said you would do.

00;32;26;23 - 00;32;56;26
Joshua Hoffert
Just rest in that and he'll show you what's going to come. And so there's, there's that, that, that encounter, that circumstance has been so life giving to me. And, and I hope it is life given to you. But that's a, that's a, a significant example to me in my own life just presently in the last few months, that has significantly altered how I see following God or not altered, but it's just shaped the last few months since it's happened.

00;32;56;27 - 00;33;21;26
Joshua Hoffert
How do I see what the father's doing? Because it's a prophetic picture of what he's doing in my own life. And and as I've told the story to others and I've talked with others, it's what he's there's so many people right now when it comes to, quote unquote, church ministry, Christianity, who, who are in the fog moment, like, you know, what's happening, what are we supposed to do?

00;33;21;28 - 00;33;48;25
Joshua Hoffert
And there was all this, like, gusto after the American election, right. Trump won. The profits are right. They're they're exonerated. And now Trump's Trump's, popularity has tanked in the polls because nobody's happy with his trade war and with his tariffs. There's very few people that are happy with it anyway. And it's like, well, you know, what happened to all that promise and that gusto and what happened to the American economy recovering by leaps and bounds.

00;33;48;25 - 00;34;11;11
Joshua Hoffert
And it's like, yeah, because you put your hope in a man and a system that's still the fog. And so there's lots of people that are disillusioned. But the disillusionment doesn't come from the father. It comes from your own illusions that were placed in front of you. And when the father's placed in front of you, and that's your hope and that's you realize, oh, I'm called to him.

00;34;11;13 - 00;34;39;02
Joshua Hoffert
My assignment may shift, but I'm called to him, and and that call never, never changes that I'm called to him. And how that expresses itself, you know, is personal and individual. But I'm always called to him and that never changes. And, and that's a, you know, it's a significant way for me that a, a prophetic circumstance played out and helped just helped another layer of following God.

00;34;39;05 - 00;34;46;28
Joshua Hoffert
And, seeing what he has for us. I know Maria's thoughts. So I've talked for a long time, Murray.

00;34;47;00 - 00;35;03;23
Murray Dueck
Lots of thoughts. So, you know, there's a, a great verse, everyone. It's Proverbs 21 one, and I'll read it in the ESV just because that's what my phone brought up. The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord. He will turn it wherever he will.

00;35;03;23 - 00;35;04;22
Joshua Hoffert
Oh that's good.

00;35;04;24 - 00;35;29;09
Murray Dueck
So. And I, I think that we forget that and, and, you know, with, with everyone, with Joshua's talking about when we look at anything, the old the old way of thinking of it is, is revelation, interpretation, application, presentation, timing. So we have a revelation. Right. And then we, you know, the conservative conservatives are going to win Canada.

00;35;29;10 - 00;35;29;19
Joshua Hoffert
Right?

00;35;29;19 - 00;35;48;05
Murray Dueck
Or America will now be the most prosperous nation on earth. And then of course, what's going on? Do you Trump, you know, if he pulls off any of these trade deals, he's talking about, who knows, right. Because the could turn around yet. So we have an interpretation and we have an application. How are we going to apply.

00;35;48;05 - 00;36;07;07
Murray Dueck
And then we have a, have a, a presentation and timing. So the problem is you can get anything wrong down the line there. And the problem is when you have a negative thing you do that this this is the problem. Oh my goodness. God doesn't love Canada or he doesn't listen to our prayers. Right. You know, you're looking at the election as revelation.

00;36;07;07 - 00;36;26;13
Murray Dueck
Oh my goodness. This means God doesn't care. We're we're being judged. Right. And then that's your interpretation. And then your application is run to the hills. Yeah. For example. And then your presentation is you start telling everybody. And so the problem is you're allowing your circumstances to to prophesy to you.

00;36;26;13 - 00;36;26;28
Joshua Hoffert
That's right.

00;36;26;28 - 00;36;46;06
Murray Dueck
Just like God's voice. And you're allowing the fog to suddenly dictate. And then you start to have emotions and then you start to have decisions and then you have outcomes, right? So you kind of have to look at. And that's one thing God really works on with people is like, like, let's just pick on Abraham for a second, okay.

00;36;46;10 - 00;37;04;23
Murray Dueck
Great man of faith super quick. So you know, we start out pretty good. You know, God says to him, Lot and Sarah leave and go to a land you don't know. Off they go crazy, right? You know, they don't have friends there. They don't speak the language. They pretty scary, I would think. And then he, you know, he tries to give his wife away to Pharaoh.

00;37;04;26 - 00;37;23;09
Murray Dueck
And his statement to Sarah is, you know, they'll go and see what a beautiful woman you are. Revelation. Right? Interpretation. They're going to take you and they're going to kill me. Emotion. And then you makes a decision to give her away. And there's an outcome. Pharaoh takes her. You see the process. You know that his original thought isn't good.

00;37;23;09 - 00;37;48;13
Murray Dueck
There. He gives away the woman of destiny, right? That that all of Israel be destined to. And then he does it again with, having Ishmael. Right. Does it again, and then he does it again with Abimelech. Right. Does it again. And finally so. So he has a pattern. Pattern is he's got a revelation belief system. I'm going to die, right?

00;37;48;16 - 00;37;53;28
Murray Dueck
So he has an emotion, fear. And then he makes a decision. Give my wife away.

00;37;53;28 - 00;37;54;19
Joshua Hoffert
Right.

00;37;54;21 - 00;38;15;00
Murray Dueck
And then behavior. Abimelech takes her, Pharaoh takes her. And there's that outcome. Well, if you look at the very end, doing this pretty quick, by the way, God never rebukes him for these things. He just gives him another promise every time. But if you look at the very end of his life, he makes he has a different belief system, you know, go kill Isaac.

00;38;15;03 - 00;38;38;04
Murray Dueck
He'll sacrifice him. Hebrews 11 says he considered God would raise him from the dead. So instead of trying to find weasel his way out of it, he has a different belief system I'm going to trust. He has a different emotion, faith, and then he has a different action. He follows through and there's a different outcome. And here's what God says to him, because now I see you fear God.

00;38;38;08 - 00;38;56;23
Murray Dueck
Why is that a big deal? Because he was fearing man all the way through. Now his heart doesn't. And the idea is he's being shaped for his destiny. So the idea when things like would come up right now with the election or whatever, what comes up in the heart, what comes up in our heart reveals our belief system.

00;38;56;25 - 00;39;20;00
Murray Dueck
If we can respond in peace and look at Jesus and go, he's in control, then we're going to have a good emotion. Then we're going to have a good decision, and we're going to have a good outcome. But if we don't, our belief systems lead us to places that are not good and we blame God for it. Look at the children of Israel in the desert right when they go to the Promised Land with the spies and go, oh my goodness, are giants there, we're going to die.

00;39;20;02 - 00;39;41;01
Murray Dueck
And what do they do? Oh, we better get a new leader. We're going to die. They're going to take their wives from us. Let's go back to Egypt and and and so you know what comes up in our heart in situations like this, it's very, very important because it leads to an emotional response, which leads to a decision which leads to a favor, which leads to the outcome.

00;39;41;01 - 00;40;01;00
Murray Dueck
And you want to catch that kind of thought, okay, I didn't get what I want here, right? But how can this make me more like Jesus, right? That that has to be the thought. Where is the resting place here? How do I how do I find him in the midst of this? And every life circumstance is set up to bring us to that place of rest.

00;40;01;00 - 00;40;14;01
Murray Dueck
Come to me, learn of me, take up my yoke. I will give you rest in every circumstance. There's something to learn, right? Gotta learn something here. What is it? Yeah, right. And then we've got to lay down our heavy yoke. What we believe, how it should go.

00;40;14;01 - 00;40;14;22
Joshua Hoffert
That's right.

00;40;14;25 - 00;40;19;01
Murray Dueck
And then pick up his. And then the rest comes. Rest is a process of movement.

00;40;19;07 - 00;40;19;17
Joshua Hoffert
Right.

00;40;19;17 - 00;40;42;14
Murray Dueck
And and, you know, when we look at these world events, especially if they affect us, our families, our belief systems, our tribe, our political stripe, you know, there's whether it's something like this or something personal, like running out of money or who knows what comes up in the heart. It's always, again, in our Western culture, we believe external circumstances.

00;40;42;16 - 00;40;53;25
Murray Dueck
That guy cut me off in traffic. It's his fault. No, that's not how the Bible reads this. Yeah, the Bible reads it as what comes up in the heart is already there. It just needs an outside circumstance to poke it up.

00;40;53;25 - 00;40;55;09
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. That's right.

00;40;55;11 - 00;41;15;00
Murray Dueck
And so, Jesus, you know, when the disciples are eating heads of grain and the Pharisees, you know, what are you doing? You see, it's it's not the external things that defile a man. It's the things that come up from the heart right? Lust, murder, gossip. So we have to look at our responses to these things and take responsibility for that and go, why am I acting this way?

00;41;15;02 - 00;41;33;07
Murray Dueck
And learn to have the peace of God guard our hearts? That verse, it means the umpire, right? It means to look at this thought that's coming at me. Did a ball is it a strike? What's going on here? And to observe the thought and go, can a where is this going to take me? What am I going to do out of this?

00;41;33;10 - 00;41;51;29
Murray Dueck
What's going to happen with this and learn to stop it at a thought and go, now, why did this steal my peace, right? And really work it back? And you know, that's the call of a Christian. So that's Colossians three and Philippians four two. Let the peace of God guard your heart and your mind. And one verse is like to put the imperial guard around it.

00;41;51;29 - 00;42;14;27
Murray Dueck
Write your thoughts right. And the other one is like, you know, a baseball umpire. And, and so we can take advantage of these situations and have them push us to the father, look inside our hearts and go, wow, I'm really subjected to other people's emotions. It really affects me, you know? Or, boy, I'm moving in a lot of fear today.

00;42;14;28 - 00;42;30;20
Murray Dueck
What's happening here? Right. And learn to be aware of our rest. Right. And, you know, circumstances. I have a lot of things to say on signs and signs and physical events. Yeah. Can I give you an example? I'll give you an example if you let me.

00;42;30;20 - 00;42;58;01
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, I want to hear that, but let me I just want to say this in response to that is when when Jesus in Matthew six says, when he talks about anxiety, right? Be anxious for nothing. And so and he says he essentially gives instruction on how you're how to deal with that anxiety when that anxiety comes. Do this is a if you read it kind of, you know, the from the from the you know from the end of the chapter backwards.

00;42;58;01 - 00;43;21;15
Joshua Hoffert
Anyway, be anxious for nothing. And then he says, what? Like his instruction is. And this is to your point, Murray. He says, look at the birds of the air. Right. And then he says, consider the, the lilies of the field. So when anxiety happens, right, be anxious for nothing. When anxiety happens, look at the birds of the air.

00;43;21;15 - 00;43;45;17
Joshua Hoffert
Consider the lilies of the field. What he's saying is change what you look at and how you see it. Because look at, look at the birds there. The father will take care of them. Consider the lilies of the field. The father will make them grow. Right? So change what your thought is and change what you're looking at. What you look at is look at this from the father's perspective, and consider this from the reality of who the father is.

00;43;45;20 - 00;44;02;01
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, right. So that's what he's saying. So catch the thought right. When you're anxious, catch the thought. Change what you're looking at. Can you look at the birds of the air and how your father takes care of them? So in the circumstance, look at the father and go, what? You what? You're different than this, right? And then consider.

00;44;02;01 - 00;44;24;25
Joshua Hoffert
So don't let that mind race. But grab the thought. Consider. So change what you're thinking. Consider means to change what you're thinking. To look means to change what you're gazing at. So when you're anxious, do these things right. That's that's what Murray is saying is the instruction of Jesus in the sermon on the Mount. Yes. Catch the thought before it happens, before they catch the thought, before it prophesies an outcome and and leads to an outcome.

00;44;24;28 - 00;44;57;15
Joshua Hoffert
Don't let anxiety control you. And Jesus goes, yeah, when you're anxious, look at the father and consider what the father's like. And and in that you find yourself coming back to that place of seek first the kingdom of God. Right now, we've made him the central figure and we've right. And so all of a sudden, the the that revelation interpretation, application, that process doesn't break down when we catch the anxiety before it prophesies itself right to our doom, right?

00;44;57;18 - 00;44;59;14
Joshua Hoffert
So yeah, go ahead, myrrh.

00;44;59;17 - 00;45;14;05
Murray Dueck
Well, here's a good personal example. But put together this, this whole thing, it you know, it's kind of fun in a way. It's about signs and it's about belief systems and it's about, prophesying to ourselves where things are going to go. So I it kind of and it's, you know, it's kind of funny. You the.

00;45;14;05 - 00;45;14;24
Joshua Hoffert
Bill.

00;45;14;27 - 00;45;30;27
Murray Dueck
Yeah. It fits the bill. I so, so I burned out, crashed talking about late 90s here and, had to leave this church, and I was told not to tell anybody why I left. I was, you know, kind of the young adult.

00;45;30;29 - 00;45;34;17
Joshua Hoffert
So nobody who the best kind of leaving when everybody tells you not to say. Well, yeah.

00;45;34;24 - 00;45;46;24
Murray Dueck
Which is such a dysfunctional family thing. And I thought it was a real honoring thing at the time, except to run into all these people who say to you, what's going on with the church for like a year and a half, right? Yeah. So I learned just to keep my mouth shut and don't talk and.

00;45;46;27 - 00;45;47;16
Joshua Hoffert
Right.

00;45;47;18 - 00;46;08;29
Murray Dueck
And, and it really kind of built it. So that's where my, my head is at. Don't talk. Keep secrets. A lot of shame. I, I screwed up, you know, God's presence left. It's my fault. I hurt people, all that kind of thing. That's. That's where my belief system. Belief system. Right? Right. Emotion. You can see that's not a very, you know, action.

00;46;08;29 - 00;46;28;16
Murray Dueck
Withdraw. Hide. You can see a very bad pattern here. Right. Outcome. Isolated. Right. So are you about a year and a half gone by and I, I haven't been around this church for a year and a half. And this weird physical thing happens. I'm driving along and I see it's my day off. I see this eagle sitting on the top of a hemlock tree, and they top, they bend.

00;46;28;19 - 00;46;48;01
Murray Dueck
It's kind of a stupid place for an eagle to say. And there's crows dive bombing it, and it just hits me. It goes, oh man, I hope that's not symbolic of me. I'm like, that's stupid, stupid, stupid. It's just a freak eagle in a tree. Right? So next day I just. Okay. Just this it's my day off. I, you know, I don't want to.

00;46;48;04 - 00;47;08;15
Murray Dueck
I want to be thinking about demons attacking me. So next day, I am, writing. I think it's a Sunday. And it's kind of foggy day, which reminded me of this. And it's been raining all day. And outside, sitting on top of the telephone pole is a squirrel. You know, they sit there, but he sits there frozen for about an hour and a half, two hours, not moving.

00;47;08;15 - 00;47;23;08
Murray Dueck
And every once in a while I'm writing a book. Yeah, he's still there. I, you know, he's still there, like, what's going on here? So at one point, the sun comes out, I think I'm going to go outside and look at this. So I go outside sounds just coming out and it's like the great director and this guy goes, action!

00;47;23;10 - 00;47;41;16
Murray Dueck
And the squirrel starts to run down the telephone wire, and this crow comes out of nowhere, starts dive bombing him, hits him. He almost falls off, grabs himself with one little claw and then makes it to a tree, jumps in and cusses a crow out and squirrel. You know, I'm thinking, well, two days in a row, that's like, nope, you eat anything, right?

00;47;41;18 - 00;48;00;09
Murray Dueck
So on the way to class Monday morning, driving into Langley, it's about a half an hour drive from Abbotsford on the highway. And I'm telling my friend, hey, I just weird thing happened, you know, and and we're talking and way up in the sky about 150ft up. No more than that. 4000 yards up. Our two crows lock beacon, big foot in foot.

00;48;00;09 - 00;48;15;17
Murray Dueck
And they're tumbling. You know, they do that. They fight. And so we're talking and, you know, you know, we drive another 50 yards. Look up. They're still there and they fall another 50 yards okay. So you know you're starting to get a better look at this. We drive another 50 yards and they're 50 yards up 50 yards in front of us.

00;48;15;20 - 00;48;38;23
Murray Dueck
Look at that. They're still you know and as I'm telling the story they fall out of the sky and smash the front window of my van. And then I'm like, oh God. Oh God. Look at that. Yeah, yeah, I'm for three days in a row. Okay. I'm not making this up now. Yeah, right. And my interpretation of this revelation is the fact that something really bad's coming.

00;48;38;26 - 00;48;39;29
Joshua Hoffert
Right? So. Right.

00;48;40;04 - 00;48;59;29
Murray Dueck
So I mean, revelation interpretation. Yeah. Application presentation timing. So I'm in class and I'm telling everybody what just happened. And they're like, okay, slow down. You know there's a couple of, you know, pretty wise people there. So what do you you know, what do you tell us about. Let's just look at this symbolically okay. So said okay. Vehicles represent what direction of your life.

00;49;00;09 - 00;49;20;29
Murray Dueck
You know and we say that or I'm stuck in the mud. I can't get out a second gear at life in the fast lane. We do that. We pair vehicles to our life. Yeah. And what about windows? What a windows to mean to me and to me, they represent belief systems. You see, through. I have this example I in class I put on a pair of glasses you see through okay and crows well versus darkness and I so okay.

00;49;20;29 - 00;49;47;06
Murray Dueck
And he says so what happened to the crows. Oh I thought about that. I think they probably got killed. Yeah. And and it's smashed out a window a paradigm. Is that going to get replaced. Yeah. It's going to get a new paradigm. So is it possible what the Lord's saying here is that a belief system that you've held that is demonic, a fear or something is going to break and you're going to get a new paradigm?

00;49;47;08 - 00;50;03;25
Murray Dueck
Oh, I want to I like your interpretation. When. Right, I like I go to that one. Well the street now I haven't I don't click it together for a while. But this strange series of events happened. I've been out of that church 18 months and suddenly I run into one of the pastor's daughters every day, and they got five.

00;50;03;27 - 00;50;17;23
Murray Dueck
So I'm up for a run, you know, jogging. I come around the corner, there is my hit, the pastor's wife, married to one of my home group leaders. Remember, I was told to leave and not tell anybody what happened and they go, hey, how are you doing? I just, hey, how are you? Do I keep running? I'm like, I don't even stop to say hi because I'm like, what am I going to say?

00;50;17;29 - 00;50;37;24
Murray Dueck
All right. Next day I'm at the coffee shop. The other daughter now works there. I'm like, whoa, this is weird, right? The next day I'm at church Sunday morning and the other daughter is sitting on my row. I'm like, what? The read it and it keeps happening. There's five of them. So finally. And then I'm starting run into home group leaders and people I haven't seen in, you know, a year and a half every day.

00;50;38;00 - 00;50;52;04
Murray Dueck
And I'm starting to get a little panicky. I'm starting to have stuff in my arm come up, you know? So I'm in the movie theater trying to get away from all this. There's a long popcorn line, and I'm at the end, and there's a long line to get into the theater, and the lines are bumping. Well, I see the.

00;50;52;04 - 00;50;52;27
Joshua Hoffert
You you're seeing.

00;50;53;00 - 00;50;54;24
Murray Dueck
I don't remember because of what happens next.

00;50;54;24 - 00;50;55;05
Joshua Hoffert
Right?

00;50;55;09 - 00;51;13;12
Murray Dueck
I, I see the other daughter walk by with pop running up. Yeah. Freaking what's going on? And then the guy in the movie line bumps me. I turn around, it's the senior pastor from the church. I had to leave, and it's his daughter's. And he looks at me and I went, oh, you know, and, so we kind of joke about it.

00;51;13;13 - 00;51;32;17
Murray Dueck
I'm like, okay, I am freaking out every freaking day. Stuff coming up in my heart now, I'm not aware it's connected to this weird event with the crows. So, suddenly I get an invitation because I guess the pastor must have thought it went pretty good. We talked, and I'm not mad at him. At least that's what he's thinking.

00;51;32;19 - 00;51;58;04
Murray Dueck
I get an invitation in the mail, but two days later for the other daughter's, wedding, and so I. Now I'm invited to go to the wedding reception and all my home group leaders, I feel I failed. Are there all his. Both sides of the family are all there, and all the daughters are there. And I've got to walk in there and man, all my fear and all my shame and all.

00;51;58;04 - 00;51;58;23
Joshua Hoffert
My bride.

00;51;58;25 - 00;52;19;22
Murray Dueck
Stuff is. And I turned around a couple of times. I finally walked in and there is a table with all my home group leaders, and one by one they walk over to me. They haven't seen me in a year and a half because I haven't been allowed to talk to them, and they put their own arms around me and they tell me they love me and I'm shocked, I am shocked, I thought they hated me.

00;52;19;24 - 00;52;39;02
Murray Dueck
And at the end, Guy comes up to me and says, because he had told me prophetic school is a stupid idea. It's not ever going to work, right? He comes up to me and says, you know, I want you to know, I've heard your school's going real well, I was wrong. I'm proud of you. Next day, I get my van back with a new window.

00;52;39;02 - 00;52;44;20
Murray Dueck
Right. Next day, van back. New window, new paradigm. Right on.

00;52;44;22 - 00;52;59;17
Joshua Hoffert
So they wait in a way, the the eagle and the squirrel are the different responses you could have to the squirrels or to the crow. Right. The, the, the eagle kind of sits stoically and and the squirrel goes.

00;52;59;22 - 00;53;06;07
Murray Dueck
Oh, oh yeah. I hadn't thought about that. Absolutely. The crow, the eagle didn't care. He was like, oh, whatever. Right, right.

00;53;06;07 - 00;53;14;16
Joshua Hoffert
That's the that's the that's the the paradigm shift is from the eagle to or from the squirrel to the eagle. Right. Is like.

00;53;14;16 - 00;53;38;03
Murray Dueck
And for those of you out there going, no way. That's not biblical. Okay, okay, okay. All know you want a shot at this. Okay. Think about this. So Ezekiel good story Ezekiel. As he comes Jeremiah. Are both fighting a false belief system, right? Liberty time. And you find that Jeremiah seven where the false belief system, the pair of glasses, the paradigm that's affecting everybody, where they're living out, they believe this.

00;53;38;07 - 00;53;56;12
Murray Dueck
Yeah. So their emotions are there. So, you know, their outcome is this is a temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord. You're a believing a false lie, right? Can you kill and steal and murder and come to this place and say, I am safe, safe to do all these detestable things? So there's a problem, right? And you got these other prophets, we call them false prophets.

00;53;56;12 - 00;54;01;22
Murray Dueck
But the Bible doesn't say that. It says they are the prophets who prophesy falsely out of their own imagination. Right?

00;54;01;22 - 00;54;06;03
Joshua Hoffert
It calls them the prophets of Israel. And Jeremiah, that's, that's 20, 23, I think, isn't it?

00;54;06;06 - 00;54;21;23
Murray Dueck
Sometimes God's going to fix it. So I'm going to do this quick because, you know, okay, this is by look it up. I'm going to give you the verses roughly because I don't have them in front of me. Okay. But somewhere like Ezekiel 324, it says, I will make your tongue stick to the roof of your mouth.

00;54;21;23 - 00;54;40;00
Murray Dueck
This is God speaking to Ezekiel, and you have been unable to rebuke them. But when I speak to you, your mouth will be open. So when he prophesies, he can speak. Otherwise you can't talk. So he's mute, right? If you prophesize, you can speak other ways. You can't talk. If we flip over then and see how this plays out, you flip over to Ezekiel 24.

00;54;40;00 - 00;54;59;27
Murray Dueck
It starts with like this Son of Man de Ezekiel right down this day, this very day to Ezekiel. Right. The Israel or Jerusalem has been surrounded by the armies of Babylon, right. He writes the data now he doesn't know. I mean, I don't two month walk from Jerusalem to to, you know, where he is in Babylon. It's a long and it's no internet, there's no newspaper.

00;54;59;27 - 00;55;21;19
Murray Dueck
Right. And then and then he says, same chapter. God says to him, son of man, I'm about to take away the delight of your eyes, right? And do not more do not weep. So he tells everybody, everybody, my wife's going to die, and his wife dies, right? Dead. So remember, he's she's died on the same day Ezekiel wrote down about Jerusalem being surrounded by the armies of Babylon.

00;55;21;19 - 00;55;40;19
Murray Dueck
It's the same date, right? As their beloved is surrounded and about to be taken away, so is Ezekiel. And the people go, what does this have to do with us? And he says, as my delight in my heart has been taken away, so will yours, right? And then the Lord says to him, And Son of man, I will send a refugee to you.

00;55;40;19 - 00;55;58;05
Murray Dueck
And before he arrives, your mouth will be opened, and you will be able to speak your right. So you flip over to Ezekiel 33. The refugee shows up and it says, before he walked in, my mouth was open so I could talk. And of course the people know this and they're like, hey, hey, this is what he said.

00;55;58;08 - 00;56;21;14
Murray Dueck
That means the refugee. You should show up. He walks in the gate the next day. There he is. And the people of Israel go, hey, what was the day that Jerusalem was surrounded by the armies of Babylon? And it's the same date on Ezekiel's wife's grave marker. Yep. And the people go there. That's a true prophet. Yeah. And that's why Israel asks for a sign and Greeks ask for knowledge.

00;56;21;14 - 00;56;27;11
Murray Dueck
Yeah, right. And Israel never struggled with worshiping Baal ever again after that.

00;56;27;13 - 00;56;29;06
Joshua Hoffert
Well not so. Yeah. And that's.

00;56;29;08 - 00;56;40;03
Murray Dueck
But again, if we don't think this a god speaks like this, we read through the Bible and we don't even see it because, you know, we don't have a paradigm, but that that's I mean, that shakes in your book. So you everyone you can look it up right there.

00;56;40;06 - 00;56;53;13
Joshua Hoffert
And with that I have to go to a meeting. But I want to keep having the conversation and we'll talk about it more. And yeah, but it it's, you know, suffice it to say this is one of the ways the Lord leads his people. We see it. Okay.

00;56;53;13 - 00;56;53;28
Murray Dueck
I say what.

00;56;53;28 - 00;56;55;02
Joshua Hoffert
My super.

00;56;55;02 - 00;57;10;27
Murray Dueck
Quick. I can do it in 30s 30s. Okay, so Jesus makes these I am statements right when we know he's claiming to be Yahweh. Right in between. I don't know the verse top my head. He he he remember that he spits in the money, puts Mark on that guy's eyes. Yeah. There's a.

00;57;11;02 - 00;57;11;16
Joshua Hoffert
There's another.

00;57;11;16 - 00;57;24;07
Murray Dueck
One. It isn't a vet. It's a sign. It's sign means heavenly language. So why did he do that? He didn't heal him. He created sight from nothing. What's man made out of due to the ground?

00;57;24;07 - 00;57;25;06
Joshua Hoffert
That's right.

00;57;25;08 - 00;57;29;14
Murray Dueck
What comes out of God's mouth? He spits on it, puts on his eyes. He creates sight.

00;57;29;17 - 00;57;30;13
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, nothing.

00;57;30;16 - 00;57;32;07
Murray Dueck
That's a declaration. You got it.

00;57;32;10 - 00;57;33;08
Joshua Hoffert
So. Yeah.

00;57;33;11 - 00;57;38;18
Murray Dueck
So why does Jesus Christ, the fig tree. Oh, I guess you're gonna leave that alone because we're out of time.

00;57;38;20 - 00;57;50;14
Joshua Hoffert
Well, everybody, thanks for tuning in. And we hope that the the that this has shed some light on maybe some of the circumstances that have happened in your house, in your life and that you find hope moving forward as well.

00;57;50;17 - 00;57;53;11
Murray Dueck
Yeah. And and allow God in the midst of stuff. Look for him.

00;57;53;16 - 00;57;54;07
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. That's right.

00;57;54;07 - 00;58;06;23
Murray Dueck
But make it about your becoming. See that it's about becoming like him. That's right. Transitioning on the journey. That's right. God is with us and he's speaking. But if we make it about our circumstances instead of our becoming, we get in trouble.

00;58;06;23 - 00;58;07;06
Joshua Hoffert
That's right.

00;58;07;10 - 00;58;08;26
Murray Dueck
Right.

00;58;08;28 - 00;58;19;11
Joshua Hoffert
So that's right. Yeah. That's right. Very good. Thanks, Murph. Yeah. So everybody, until next time, we will see you in another episode. And God bless.

00;58;19;13 - 00;58;21;10
Murray Dueck
Hi everybody. I'm giving you the Canadian Queen.

00;58;21;10 - 00;58;24;24
Joshua Hoffert
Where you go. That's right. That's right.

00;58;24;27 - 00;58;26;10
Murray Dueck
The Canadian election.

00;58;26;12 - 00;58;29;02
Joshua Hoffert
Football. That's right. By.