Money Conversations with KJ
Money Conversations with KJ
Replay - 096: From Childhood Lessons to Lifelong Financial Wisdom: Kim Cooper’s Journey
What if the financial habits you picked up from your parents are shaping your future more than you realize? Join "Money Conversations with KJ" as we welcome Kim Cooper, a wife, mom, and attorney, who takes us through her compelling journey of navigating financial literacy while raising a family. From the trials of single parenting in the early 80s to the triumphs of equipping her children with financial wisdom, Kim’s story underscores the critical importance of staying involved in your children’s education and interpreting financial concepts beyond just academic grades.
Ever wondered how distinguishing between wants and needs can shape your financial future? This episode dives deep into budgeting and financial discipline, drawing from Kim's early experiences of saving for a car and college. Learn how Kim transformed modest-income jobs into long-term financial stability through meticulous budgeting and clear, actionable goals. Her narratives highlight the lasting benefits of instilling disciplined financial habits early on, offering valuable lessons for parents and young adults alike.
Financial literacy isn't just about crunching numbers; it's about open conversations and practical knowledge. We explore how financial behaviors are influenced by our parents, featuring Kim’s insights from observing her bookkeeper mom and impulsive dad. Discover the power of responsible credit building during college years and the significant role credit plays in adult life. Finally, we discuss the importance of early financial education, setting clear financial goals, and navigating retirement planning, all peppered with Kim's personal anecdotes and practical advice. Tune in for a wealth of knowledge that can help you improve your financial literacy and stability.
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Welcome to Money Conversations with KJ. Kj is a lifelong entrepreneur who's made a lot of money, lost a lot of money and found his way back again. If you're looking for a sterile how-to, you're in the wrong place. Kj and his guests will walk you through real-life situations told by the people who live them, and they are as messy as they are inspiring. Each episode will offer lessons learned, advice on how to replicate successes and avoid pitfalls, and a new perspective to power your financial literacy. Far from a one-size-fits-all, this podcast can help you build a roadmap to your personal promised land milk and honey for some, whiskey and steak for others and remind you that you're not alone on this journey well, hello, hello everybody.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to uh the show. And I've got a guest today. Been trying to get her on for a few months but we all you know everybody's got schedules and and today it works. So uh, the guest today is. The guest today is Mrs Kim Cooper. Welcome to the show, kim.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Um, you know today. So Kim's story is going to be real interesting for a lot of you guys. Kim is, uh, I'm going to say, in the middle of raising her family, cause your kids are teenagers.
Speaker 3:Yep Preteen and a teen pre-teen teen, so she got a few years ago, but um, and I've known kim now I don't know five years at least yeah, right around five years and and although, like a lot of my guests, I know some of the story, I don't know all the story, so we're going to get into it, but I think that the story that I know and we'll get into that, the lessons we're going to hopefully teach some people out there, as they're listening to this, that maybe are in your same age bracket or maybe they're earlier, and some of the things that you learned early in life that you're reaping rewards now in type of thing, right, we'll get into that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so she's a wife, she's a mom, she's an attorney and you know she's. She's really big on education. Her husband was on the show, I don't know, four or five months ago, roughly, I think. So, yeah, roughly. He's a teacher, so education is real big in the family. Yes, which is great, and fortunately, you afford your kids, you know, good education, not just at school but at home, right?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Where we know, a lot of families don't have that, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Well, I think so many families are so busy right just trying to do all the things you need to do in your daily life that it can be a challenge to really help focus your kids on things that they need to do to be academically successful. And for us, grades aren't really the focus. For us it's understanding. And the only way you know if your kids are understanding the concepts they're being taught is if you stay involved and you constantly ask and you're there for homework and you're there and checking in on what are their lessons look like. What have you learned today? What did you like best? What did you like least? You know, what did you like best, what did you like least?
Speaker 1:All that kind of fun stuff, but it's, yes, it's very time consuming.
Speaker 3:It is. Raising kids is definitely time consuming for you out there that have them and for you that don't have out there, you know, have them. I highly encourage people to have kids. It's an amazing time. I have four. They're grown and gone. I did my time, so to speak. But what we want to get into is you know about money and where you guys are today and what you're teaching your kids and how they're receiving it. Because I find that one. I'll ask you the first question I ask most people, which is your furthest memories back? What were the lessons that mom and dad taught you about money? How old do you think you were when they sat you down and taught you about money?
Speaker 1:so, uh, my parents got divorced when I was eight okay so, uh, I was pretty cognizant of not having a lot of money because we went from a two income household to a one-income household, and this is in the what 80s, early 80s right, single mom right kind of thing right. And unfortunately you know my dad was not consistent on paying child support.
Speaker 3:So there were? Yeah, there was. Do you think that's relatable to a lot of folks out there? I think it really is. You know nobody. A lot of people are not strangers to divorce. We know the divorce record out there is high and you know there's a decent amount of unfortunately they named them deadbeat dads. Right, they don't pay to help support the kids and so, unfortunately, you were eight when that happened. Right, you're recognizing there's no money. We need money, just for basic. Just let's eat and keep a roof over our heads, let alone extracurricular things.
Speaker 1:It was a big deal. My mom was embarrassed having to apply for a free and reduced lunch, but we couldn't do without it. There's no way that she would have been able to afford packing us lunches every day. So it was a. It was a. I remember distinctly. It was a dime, it was a dime Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I got a card, but I got a card. Here's another thing too, right, I'm hoping maybe we're a bit more sensitive within our, our educational system now that you don't have a special card to call you out that you're the kid on the right right. Reduce lunch yeah.
Speaker 3:And again, I think, when it comes to money, I talk about that why people don't talk about money, which is typically they don't talk about money because you don't have it or because you do have it and it's one or the other that we that we sit in that whichever bucket, right, I don't have it, I do have it and you don't talk about it if you don't have it, cause you're embarrassed. And again, going to the lunch thing and again I'm sure there's people out there listening it says you know, I was in that same boat. I remember you know my parents, or a single mom, or even there, eight years old when that happened, and you know, just with the lunch thing, and you wanted, cause every eight year old wants stuff, right, I want the latest shoes or whatever.
Speaker 3:What was going through your mind with money at that point? And did mom sit you down and really give you a hard lesson?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, we didn't. She didn't expressly have a conversation about it. I do remember her applying for the free and reduced lunch and that I would now have a card. I didn't kind of make that association until she kind of made those connections, so I never thought about it when other kids pulled the card out. So when I pulled the card out I didn't really think twice of it. It wasn't until a little later that she could have made a comment in passing that I was like oh, oh, okay, maybe this isn't a good thing. I was thinking woohoo, free, you know, hot lunch at school.
Speaker 3:Did it? Did it motivate you in any, in any fashion of you know how to treat money? Did you get? Did you become frugal? Did you it?
Speaker 1:didn't not at that, not at that point, I think it was. I think it was really because at eight, what, what money do you really have, Right?
Speaker 3:Whatever mom and dad give you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which I never got right. Right At eight o'clock, I mean at eight, you're not, you're not getting allowance. I don't have allowance. I have birthday money and Christmas money, but I do not have allowance or anything like that, right, so, no, no, what really? What it was, I think it was just over time, growing up, where we would, we would do back to school shopping and that was. You got that.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And then if you needed something or if you've outgrown something, then that was Christmas, right, and then everything else. We had neighbors down the street who had two older girls, so I grew up with, I did a lot of hand-me-downs. Okay With hand-me-downs, yeah.
Speaker 3:Again, all to me standard stuff, as I have so many conversations with folks either. In your case, you know, you're telling us your story and there's people out there today that live that exact life right.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't think anything, I didn't think twice about it. When we had our kids, like when we had our first, it was my sister had her kids first. So she was like oh, here's a bunch of stuff. I was like score. And then right. And we would do the same thing. We had a network of friends, so hand-me-downs of course, I would never turn my nose up at hand-me-downs, right? I grew up with them.
Speaker 3:So how old do you think you were when you really realized the value of money trading? Like, most people trade time for money and other people trade value for money. But how old? At what age? Cause you started learning, I think, when, in that situation, mom and dad get divorced and you can see that things are tight in the house. Well, how old were you when you started to really think about wow, I need to probably handle my money, you know, more responsibly, not squander money, save money. How old do you think you were when those kinds of thoughts came into you?
Speaker 1:You know, I don't. I don't think it was that focus. I think for me it was um. I know that if I want a car, if I want to be able to go to a concert with my friends, if I want to do these things I have to have a job. So that it wasn't necessarily thinking about the time, value of money or um saving. It was just when you don't have a lot, you then become very discerning on where you're going to spend it. So I knew that I wanted that. I grew up in Southern California so having a car meant freedom, because there was no public transportation Right, and I knew I wanted a car. So I started saving right away.
Speaker 3:Like how old do you think you were? You use a word that I think a lot of people and I try to teach us in the training that is early in life is that we could teach our kids and ourselves about the difference between wants and needs. Right, you started with I wanted a car Right, but did you need one when you wanted it? Or like, I need a car if I'm going to get a job because I got to get to my job Right. So then that becomes a need versus a want, where there's a lot of kids out there today where parents will afford everything they need. Right Now I want a car Right, and there's a big difference.
Speaker 1:Yes, there is. There is, um. I knew I was going to need a car right Um to get to and from a job, and I knew that I would need a car to go to college and all that kind of fun stuff. So, yes, I wanted one, though, as well, and I knew that I would have to earn it, so I had a job. I had a job at a car dealership at 14.
Speaker 3:At 14?.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That was your first job then.
Speaker 1:That was my first official like-.
Speaker 3:Get a paycheck job, yeah, you know, versus babysitting and exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:I licked envelopes for a while Like there was a little. These are side projects, right.
Speaker 3:But. But let's go back there, because if you were doing that at you know 11, 12, 13 type of years, um, were you doing it, then realizing I'm gonna do like envelopes or what have you, and get paid dollar x because you wanted things, you wanted to help around the house or you just wanted to save the money?
Speaker 1:well, I, I knew that. I I mean really. I knew I wanted a car, so I knew I had to work to save the money and save it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so did you become a good saver.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty good.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd say pretty good. You know, always living kind of paycheck to paycheck, it wasn't as if I was able to save a lot of money and then it went to investment or you know it, it grew exponentially. It was it was saving for a goal right. It was always like, oh I, you know, I know I need a car. Or oh, okay, I have a car, I need to make sure that I can cover all the basic expenses related to it. But then I know I'm going to go to college, I need to start saving some extra money for that. So every time I would save up it would then be spent once I hit that goal.
Speaker 1:It really wasn't until I got much, much older that we were really able to kind of pivot and start saving kind of for the future. You know retirement and you know saving to invest and those kinds of things. And that part of that is because, as you mentioned, which so? So I met Shay. I knew I was going to be in the arts, he knew he wanted to be a teacher. So he basically were like OK, we're going to be poor.
Speaker 3:Right, right, but but well, let's go back, because I think the lessons here that I want people to learn about money is. You said a couple of things. One you had a goal Right, and I really believe and understand people who have money have have money because they have goals and they work towards them, which requires discipline with your money. Right, because and I try to teach people there's a huge difference between a goal and a dream.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Right A goal is you're actively have a roadmap, so to speak, of what you're going to do. Right, you reverse engineer I'm going to buy a at least these are round numbers I'm going to buy a $5,000 car. I make $500 a week and if I'm going to pay cash or I'm going to make enough money for a down payment, you've got to work this whole equation out and that's how you did it at that younger age, so that develops for you over time into young adult holding and then where you are now, these are habits and I think for most people with money, the earlier that we can start with good money habits, the more likelihood you won't struggle with money. And then it's the opposite. You don't create good money habits where the spending and saving and investing habits. That that's why people will live paycheck to paycheck, because they don't have clear written goals. They don't have a clear written, written way of how they're going to get from A to B. Would you agree?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, no, I definitely. I think we were able to kind of survive through some of the tighter times and recognizing, like I said I mean I say it glibly but, yeah, being a teacher and an artist, definitely we would not be flush with cash all the time so, recognizing that we lived a structured life with regard to our finances right, we had a budget we had. I knew we had X amount of money coming in. I knew we had to save X for all the things in life that pop up that you're never prepared for.
Speaker 3:Right, I tell people there's things all of us every single month pay for that the previous month. Even if you try to budget to the penny, things happen in our lives monthly that we spend money that we didn't know we were going to spend money on. Right, you mentioned earlier, you went to go get tires put on your car. Right, that's not a monthly thing we do. Right, we buy tires every couple of years or so, right, and no one typically saves money just for tires, right, it's just. You know you've got to buy those things and hopefully you put yourself in a position that that doesn't hurt you to just go buy a set of tires.
Speaker 3:But I want to get back to as you were doing those disciplines and you had mentioned budgeting. As you were doing those disciplines and you had mentioned budgeting right and that the early years, because I really believe it's so much can be done in early life and learn if we learn, if we're taught right. But you're like everybody else that I've talked to mom and or dad didn't actually sit you down to teach you about money concepts and things to do budgeting. How old were you when budgeting? And and where did you learn it? Was it school, was it, a friend or somebody taught you about budgeting and the importance of it Right, right.
Speaker 1:So, although my mom didn't sit me down and talk about right, what did it mean when you know now that she and my dad got divorced and how that would impact us financially? She, she did keep a ledger right. She was a bookkeeper and so we had family finances right. And then I would, as she would bring work home right, I would see her working on the quote books for her job. So some basic concepts were learned just because I was there around observing and I wanted to be helpful.
Speaker 1:So I'm sure I wasn't, but I'm sure it took her twice as long to do whatever she was doing when she was working at home. But she would let me run the tin key, ok, so she would explain to me what she was doing and why she was doing it, and then I would be the one to double check her math. And that gave me an understanding. Now can know this is the business side, but she kept a similar ledger for for home Right. So I knew I had a general idea of what the expenses the household expenses were as well. But did we ever have a Frank sit down and open up the book and talk about it?
Speaker 3:Oh, no, it's okay. I think 99% of people don't have that type of parent, but I think definitely was to your benefit. Mom was a bookkeeper right, because I've had a lot of conversations where with people that are around the age of 30 and you look back and you're like you, if you really look back and you are the way you are with money because, even though you're not set down specifically and taught, we emulate what mom and dad have done, and so I always say, if mom and dad, if mom was a spender, you're likely to be a spender. If mom was a saver, you're likely to be a saver. So mom was in your case. Mom was a bookkeeper and you wanted to be involved with mom and single mom household that, like you, inadvertently learn things. Not through exact lessons, though, right.
Speaker 1:Right and I do think you're, you're, you're, you're kind of spot on with the emulation and I and there may have been a silver lining with the divorce for a handful of reasons, but my dad was horrible with money, horrible. He went through two bankruptcies. He was very impulsive with his, with his purchasing. I remember my mom telling a story when they were still living together. He came home with a brand new BMW, drove up in the driveway. My mom was like what the hell?
Speaker 3:Right, you went out and just spent 50 grand. You didn't talk about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. And then all of a sudden, now the household has to absorb that Adjust. Yes, yeah, yes, right.
Speaker 3:So. So that taught you a lesson when you saw that, again, I just share with people. And it's not your fault, it's not anybody's fault, right? It's not your fault mom or dad didn't sit you down, it's not your fault they treated money the way they did. But as you become a young adult, into college years, I believe, where we can really most of us anyway understand the right from wrong, right Started, learning the basic needs and wants.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's because, most of us, that's the first time we're out on our own right. Now, all of a sudden, you've got a handful of expenses you're responsible for and a lump of money, and you've got to figure out how to allocate it correctly, or you're going to get pink notices and your electricity is going to get shut off.
Speaker 3:Exactly exactly, so you learn those lessons fairly early. Yeah, and and again, normal. This is so typical. Typical I was not use that word, but yes, it is for not just Americans. I got people listening to the podcast all over the world, right, and? And I think it doesn't matter what currency you're dealing with or what your situation was at home. I think we all have that same commonality of growing up and why we utilize money the way we do. And even though we live in the US, the richest country in the world, and we have opportunities galore to us At what point in time? I know a lot of people listen, and I listened to Dave Ramsey and Susie Orman, right, they're the probably the most popular names out there when people want to start learning things about money and and they're very adverse to say like credit cards, right, and so how old were you when you were introduced to the credit card world? How did you receive it?
Speaker 1:Right, right. Well, we had this conversation at dinner the other night. So it was my grandma, right, and she was thinking forward, thinking about right, recognizing that I'm going to be out on my own and I need to build credit. How do you build credit when you're really young? So this was I was not quite 18. So I was still at well, I was living with my grandmother.
Speaker 1:At the time, mervyn's was around. Anybody who grew up in Southern California may be of my age, may remember Mervyn's. But her thought was you need to get a store credit card so that you can buy a few things here and there, pay it off and start building up your credit, right? So that's what I did, and she didn't really explain it to me other than say that, right, in order to become independent and be able to kind of move forward as an adult, right that I need to have good credit. And she just said this is how you're going to build it you have a job now, right? So buy one thing a month that you can afford and then pay it off before the due date, and that will build good credit. We didn't go into anything greater than that, that was just.
Speaker 3:I think I think also that's the basic, uh, one-on-one lesson from mom and dad to their kids about credit cards, right, um, I mean, cause we as an adult, you know we understand how important credit is. You want to buy everybody wants to buy a house someday, or a car, right, or just any big ticket item. You could want to go buy furniture, right, you don't have to own a house, steph. So there's a lot of reasons In today's world, even so. Just your insurance rates are affected by good or bad credit, right, and so those are the lessons. So when, at that age when she taught you that, did you think about I should? Probably there's got to be more to it than just that Maybe I should dig in Nope, no, not even then, Not even then. How old do you think you were when you kind of figured out really how the credit and credit card game works?
Speaker 1:That was college. That was when I was fully out on my own and responsible for paying all my bills. And all of a sudden, when you're in college, you get flooded with credit card applications, right, so I shouldn't say that I it wasn't, that I was completely naive about credit cards, right, I mean, I I'd already, whether it was through my mom or grandma or just general general conversations, right, you have. Whether it was through my mom or grandma, just general conversations, right, you have. Right with regard to paying your bills, right, there was. It was explained to me how credit works, right, and if you don't pay your credit cards off, that you have a balance, then you're going to get charged, whatever that interest rate is. And so I understood all of that, and I don't remember at what point in time.
Speaker 3:Was it like a school class? Did it? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, it would have just been.
Speaker 1:it would. It's just being around my mom and grandma and that right and having to pay bills and understand, like so that that was all shared to me. I don't think in any. It wasn't a sit down have a long conversation. It was one of those my mom's sitting at the table paying bills and I'm like what's this or that kind of thing where you just get bits and pieces over the course of living at home?
Speaker 3:Do you think 2020 hindsight, looking back had you had a good, comfortable sit down conversation about money and credit cards and investing before the age of, say, 18, do you think your life would be different today?
Speaker 1:possibly, possibly, um, you know it's really hard to it's. It's hard to know you do make a lot of choices, right. Like, as I mentioned right, I always partly because of how I grew up right, I always saved because you never knew what was going to happen. But we never, I never made a whole lot of money to do anything other than that. Yet, at the same time as I did move forward in my career when I was in the arts, I did have opportunities where we had a bit more and had I think I had perhaps conversate more conversations about compound interest, right, and how that can help you grow your wealth over time, that instead of, let's say, moving to an apartment in a nicer area of town or getting a slightly bigger apartment, now that I've got a bit more, I get a dollar raise right.
Speaker 3:I mean that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:I may have then shifted that thought process and said oh look, all our needs are being met, right. Oh, I wonder if this would be a good opportunity then to take that dollar and save it so that I had a large enough money to then put into a larger an account that would all of a sudden give me a return on my investment. And look at it that way, which never crossed my mind when I was younger that part never did.
Speaker 3:So this is why I love teaching the subject and I named the podcast and everything my program. Everything's named Money Conversations with KJ. I really believe and we'll get into this with you in a minute that the more we can all talk about money and have money conversations to help elevate everybody, right? So my next question is did you ever have any type of mentor as you were growing up?
Speaker 3:With regard to money, well, not just money, just in life right, because a mentor can help people in many different levels, and not just money, but your career, family.
Speaker 1:I mean lots of different things mentors are good for, even to this day, I think, with regard to money specifically, because it's not, we don't talk about it and, within my current profession, still is not a lot of conversations with your colleagues. I mean, firms have a vested interest in you not telling everybody what you make because they don't want everyone to compare, but along those same lines, for example, within the law right, if you work at a traditional law firm, you generally, generally, your goal, is to become partner. Well, you're becoming a partner in a. Why are they called a partner? Cause they used to be partnerships. Now, now they may be a professional corporations, but nonetheless there's a buy-in right.
Speaker 1:Whether it's a partnership, or you've got to there's a, or you're going to be a shareholder in a professional corporation. There's a chunk of change, and when I started at my current firm, I remember one of the first questions I asked was so what's the buy-in for a partner? And the two other partners I was talking to? They kind of looked at each other and they looked at me and they're like, oh, I don't know what that is right now. You're like the first person who's like directly asked, and so I was like, oh, okay, so even here that isn't openly discussed, or Well, why do you think that was?
Speaker 3:I mean, I think it makes people uncomfortable sometimes, right All our amounts. And again, because I say if people who have money don't want to talk about it, because if you let somebody know you have, say, a substantial amount of money, you're afraid one of two things is going to happen. Can I borrow some?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Can you invest in me, right? They're trying to get some of what you have, right? And that's why they don't like to talk about it the people with money versus the other side of the coin is I don't. I don't have any. I'm embarrassed. You know, I'm age X and I should have more than I have I'm having. Haven't done well with my money.
Speaker 1:Does that reflect on how I do everything else in?
Speaker 3:my life. Sure Right. Which it can, it can right. I love the saying how you do anything's how you do everything. I love that saying because I really find it to kind of be true. Um, so, as you were going through there and no one actually sat you down and you're learning all these lessons through life, um, and so you didn't, you did or didn't have a mentor I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, there have always been people that I've are you?
Speaker 3:are you a very inquisitive person? You ask a lot of questions. I just do yes, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, I do so. Well, you know when I met you.
Speaker 1:I was just chocked full of lots, and I still am. I still ask you lots of questions, right, right? Yes, so I don't have one particular person. It a girlfriend of mine. We're very, very close. I went through a lot of personal things with her and so we've shared very, very intimate details. Right, she shared with me very intimate details of her personal life and things like that. So you think, really good bond. And yet when she reached a million dollars in her retirement investments, she was very excited and she shared with me, but she prefaced it with you. Know, I'm excited to share this, but I don't want to brag, and I know this. I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but I'm so proud of what I've done, hitting the mark right.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that's another thing to consider as well Like, even if so, you do have money not necessarily, I guess, because as a society we don't talk about it Maybe there is something kind of.
Speaker 3:There's a stigma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gauche, right? Whatever that term is right To talk about. You don't talk about money, um, but that's it. That was a huge milestone. She's a single parent, too, right, she's been, she's been, she's she. I gotta get her on your podcast. Um, she honed in on this whole compound interest saving early thing early on. I mean, she started before she was 18 and she set her million dollar goal when she was, I think, 18 or 20 right 20. Right, and that's so.
Speaker 3:That's why she reached it, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she did reach it and she was proud of herself and she should have been, and she should have been able to celebrate without, I think, prefacing this whole, I don't mean to brag, or I don't mean to, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, had you had I mean with this person really got deep with money type of conversations with her, or was that?
Speaker 1:kind of just surface level stuff. Well, I think so we, we talked about how much things cost and like, right, you know, I was like we had a, we were in the market for a car.
Speaker 3:And she was like, oh well, you know, because I never buy a new car, I said I don't buy new cars either and we talked and we talked that kind of way, but not but necessarily she's like hey, I'm having real success with this investment type of thing, or I, I did this thing. None of those types and as close as you were or are right, and that's that's my point with all you listeners out there, man, please, please, please, have these conversations, because how long have you known this? This?
Speaker 3:oh my gosh 20 plus years, yeah, so if she would have shared with you some of the things that she put in play and you would have said you'd had maybe an aha moment of some sort, it's like I need to, I'm gonna do that too, right, right. And now you guys grow this journey together and she comes to you, she hit her her milestone of the million and you're like I'm right behind you. I I'm at 880.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Right, All because of a conversation you had had 20 years prior. Not about prying about, oh, I'm able to save more than you or I make more than you, no braggadocious type of things, just good, hard money lessons that can help. And so for you guys listening, I mean, if you're in those positions and you're doing, you know that you're doing well with money things are starting to is the rewards are at the end. The last 10 years, right. The first 20 years it's slow going and you have to be patient and you just have to understand how it works and that it'll be in your benefit down the road, Right. And so if you're in that position, man, have those conversations, because that could have totally changed the course of your life financially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, that's a great lesson right there in itself. So, and you would have thought of her as and again, I always bring up having mentors, because it's just another form of learning through life experiences, those lessons we all do right um get that back up, um learning those lessons is how we start to make a right or left as we're going down life's lane yeah right?
Speaker 3:am I going forward? Right or left? What are we doing? What are my decisions? Is based on what we've seen, yes and or? Unfortunately, the ones that we learn through experience cost a lot well and and right.
Speaker 1:It kind of goes back to right with. With regard to kids, right, you kind of want them to try and learn those lessons on their own, like succeed and fail, when they're younger and the damage is limited, right, because, as you mentioned, as you move forward in life the stakes kind of get higher.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:So it would be good to kind of set them up and let them try and fail. So I give, I have the luxury now of giving my kids an allowance and I suggest to them that they save some and then if there's something that they want that they write, they can take a small portion of their allowance and save towards whatever it is they want. And my daughter is super frugal and if I say something like, oh well, sure you can get that if you want to spend your money, and she'll look at me dead in the eye. She's like no, I don't want to spend my money, mom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you buy it for me, mom, will you give me that?
Speaker 1:And then I'm like, no, that's not within our budget. And then I said, but you can buy it if you'd like. And her response is always no, right, she's. She's tight fisted, that one. But my son, he's much more impulsive and so he's good at saving. He has actually quite a chunk of money saved, but he will take. He'll take more than I usually recommend when he wants to go hang with his friends, and when he comes back it is all gone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know if that's a boy thing or a girl thing, I don't know. It isn't, it isn't, it isn't. I've talked to both sides. So earlier, when you mentioned about goals, when did goals and goal setting become important to you? How old do you think you were? Because, again back to the importance of how important they are, and I know that you had that career shift right From the arts to, hey, I'm going to go to school and you know study law and get a degree. What was it? Money that made that decision? Or was it you faded out of wanting to do the arts? I mean, because a lot of people. And roughly, how old were you when that happened? Because there's people out there that change careers all the time.
Speaker 3:Right right right, and for multiple reasons. I think most of the reasons have to do with money. When you are without for so long, you're like I'm tired of living paycheck to paycheck or just above.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Right, so did that factor in.
Speaker 1:Not for me. I, what I found for me it was, it was just, it was a personal choice. I was, I was working for Cirque du Soleil and I loved my job, I loved everyone I worked with, I loved what I did. I was beginning to see the people around me who were a little older, right, so I was in my thirties and they were in their forties and some of them were having surgery shoulder surgery, knee surgery and I'm like, oh my, I don't, that doesn't seem very old to be having surgery, and that the surgeries were caused, right, because of the work, right, and so, um, it was really kind of like, okay, well then, where, where am I going to go next in my career? It was a kind of a career goal situation and, well, I can go into management, right, because that's kind of. The next is you just automatically, right, kind of go, put it, move into a leadership position.
Speaker 1:And I saw that the things that I loved about what I was doing was working with my hands, was doing all the artistic things, and that if I went into management, I wouldn't be doing that as much or at all. I would really be dealing with numbers and people, and although I could deal with the people part, but crunching out the numbers on all the budgets and then dealing with all the HR issues, I was like put those together and then not doing anything. Artistic not so much for me. So then I just pivoted and said, okay, well, what else did I enjoy when I was in college, what else did I seem to do well at? And I just happened to take a law class when I was an undergrad when I was at USC.
Speaker 1:It was great, they actually had a law professor from the law school teach this juvenile justice class. It was wonderful and I really enjoyed it. So when I thought back about what would I like to do, that was a possibility, and sometimes life is serendipitous. I had just read an article in the newspaper about an open house they were having for the law school. They just recently opened a law school and they had a nighttime program. So I was like, oh well, I took this class and I liked it. Oh, and now there's a law school where they have a part-time program so I could still work and go to school. Oh well, maybe I'll take a look at that. And that's kind of how all that unfolded.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's, that's a huge commitment. Slash sacrifice when you did that, knowing that you had to work during the day and then schooling at night. Right, yeah, took, took away almost any time for what people want FUN Right, what can I do to entertain myself, type of thing. But at what people want F-U-N right, everybody wants what can I do to?
Speaker 3:entertain myself type of thing. But at what point did that decision-making, when you made that decision I want to roll into retirement? At what age did you really start thinking about retirement and the things that you needed to do to reach, aka, some sort of retirement? And making those decisions had to do with retirement and making those decisions had to do with retirement.
Speaker 1:So for me, what was nice is once we kind of made this transition down to Vegas and I was working in shows that were what are called resident shows. They were in one place, they weren't tours. That's all of a sudden, when I was working within companies that had 401ks and you could start thinking about retiring where they had a program already set up, where the onus wasn't on you Right. So this is something else I think for people that can be daunting is, if you don't work for a company where either you either you're an independent contractor or you work for a company that doesn't have an existing 401k structure, where do you go? Who do you? You know? Who do you reach out to who? Where? How do you invest like in what vehicle and how often? And it's, there's just so many steps how old were you?
Speaker 3:you think, when you were, when this was going through your mind uh, so I think the um.
Speaker 1:So I always worked through college, so I knew that 401ks existed.
Speaker 3:I just Everybody's heard of them.
Speaker 1:Right, right and and I did have one of the Julie. She's still a friend today. She was the person who hired me at one of my one of my many jobs in college and we she. One of the first things she said was well, I would love to have you stay come. You know work-time, but you wouldn't qualify for the 401k. And I'm like, okay, well, how does that work anyway?
Speaker 3:So you got educated.
Speaker 1:So then, yeah, she explained it to me and I thought, oh, this is a fabulous thing. And then so any other time I had picked up jobs along my career path, I would ask. But because I was in the arts very few had them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they didn't. It's usually some big corporations you gotta afford to, you know, offer them, which means they have to make a lot of money. Uh, so again back to the rough age, because I find that people under the age of 30 just have a mindset of that's far away. I don't want to worry about that right now, but then, when you truly understand compound interest, you should be like I should have thought of that when I was 18, like your friend did, and reached, you know, a milestone of a million dollars. And how old was she when she ran numbers? What do you think she held?
Speaker 1:No, she's a 55 at 55.
Speaker 3:Right she, so she started early and at 55 a million dollars, right. I did a podcast with another friend of mine who retired at 55 and he's had that. That podcast had so many um views to it because everybody wants to know how the heck do I retire at 55? What's the secret? Right, and there are many ways to get there. Um, his was cause. He worked for a big fortune 500 company, UPS, and did his 30 years and has a pension. And all of this, your friend it's like the military right, exactly.
Speaker 3:And your friend goes you know what? I'm going to start putting money to work at 18 and boom, right. And so I just I'm getting ready to do another video that talks and explains to people about the difference between having a 401k or a Roth IRA, traditional IRA or even a Roth 401k, right? And these are things like you were at the early age like how did those work? And finally someone sat you down and explained it.
Speaker 1:Just the 401k, right, and I but right, I think that this video right, the subject matter of your video would be right, would be very, very helpful, especially for everyone like me, for so many years, who did never work for a company large enough to offer a 401k and anytime I, so many years, who did never work for a company large enough to offer for one k and anytime I kind of heard about potentially investing, I just didn't, didn't know. And the beauty of the internet, now right, I mean, this is all pre. Yeah, exactly you, and I didn't have that luxury.
Speaker 3:You know back then where it was at our fingertips. Right, and and because money has always been a little bit of a taboo conversation, right, everybody holds it because it's close to their sleeve. You're afraid to talk about it, right, and again, this is why I just became passionate a few years ago. I just wanted to have let's just talk about it and learn all these. You know and I teach financial literacy at its simplest form. But even at its simplest form, for a lot of folks may seem complicated, and that's why, when they try to talk to a financial advisor and the financial advisor starts using jargon, that just goes it's a whole language, it might as well be Chinese or something, right, like I don't know what you're talking about. And so then they just and if you don't understand or know anything, what do you do? You ignore it. You're like I don't know what that is I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Right, right Kind of a thing. Well, and it can be so overwhelming, right, just so overwhelming, and and and you've got so much else going on in your life, right, you? Just you have the, the myriad of things that pull at your attention. Right, you've got a just a finite amount of time to deal, and attention span and energy. Yes, it can be very, very challenging. I think the earlier you can begin to learn those concepts and kind of just internalize them, then, as you move forward in life, some of the stuff will just make sense and it'll be easier for you to make decisions.
Speaker 3:And I've talked about that when I have a guest on here, that's and I asked the question when they're between the ages of plus or minus 30 years old is that. I find that that's, that's the age when people reflect, right, when you're around 30 and you look back and now you've been working 10, whatever years, right, and you're like man, I've been working 10 years, I don't have no money and I've made decent money and I got a couple of things, but there's got to be something better than this, right, what am I doing wrong? Right, right. And then they want to start to educate themselves at that point. But again, back to understanding the value of time. With compound interest, like you, 10 years, literally at the other end of the spectrum, could have just cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah, literally.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I look I printed out the whole the right interest rate that to show, to demonstrate to the kids compound interest, right, because I, when I had my own firm, I had an opportunity to be able to kind of hire them to do my all the pictures on my website, and so I paid them. But then I didn't, you know, pay them, pay them. I stuck it right into a fund and so to show them like, okay, so okay, it's not a huge amount of money, you guys, you each have five grand, but like look here's where I put it in and let's just assume 8%. Now, how many years has this been? Where are you now? Now, look where this money is going to be when you hit 50, right, and they're like holy cow. I'm like exactly, that's why I'm suggesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly when people realize, when you just let compound interest work in your favor, money's working. It's like Warren Buffett says until we start learning how to make money while we sleep, we will work until we die right, and so the only way you're going to make money while you sleep is because it's working, it's you've invested it. It's somewhere it's compounding every single day and year into your benefit, right and again, front end very light.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Benefit happens in the last five to seven years, right? So you have been teaching your kids then trying. Are you being like you had mentioned? Your mom was a little vague on some teachings. It was more visually watching and then helping her with you know the bookkeeping and stuff. Are you being because of that? Are you being more in depth with the teachings? And then Shay's a teacher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know, but he doesn't teach Right, and that's true. He just started teaching econ, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I. I guess that's a but. But econ and finance aren't necessarily hand in hand, right, they are a little different. So they are right, but, um, but yes, am I trying? Are we trying to be more mindful? Yes, are we doing a really good job? No, and I'll tell you one reason why I think we could do better, or why I think we might have issues, is that um, we were talking the other night. They're apps, so now everything goes into the app.
Speaker 1:I'm not having to sit at the table and, like, do stuff so it's not like oh, hey, kids, you know, let's have a conversation about why I hate summer here, because all of a sudden, my, our ac bill is, like you know, 400 bucks and this is why I constantly am changing the temperature on you and you're like, ah, it's too hot and I'm like, too bad, suffer right right. But it's all on an app. So Shay and I have access to the app and I'm like, oh, okay, but the kids never see it. It's like this magic stuff now that happens behind the scenes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's not magic, right. No, it's work. It's work and again, I think the kids have a huge generation that you have to have these apps in. The majority of them are free or have free versions, basic versions. Like you know, mintcom, which is probably one of the more popular ones out there, has its free version, which is a good version, and then the paid version. Depending the paid version you're when you're making more money and you have a lot more expenses. You really need a lot more tight tracking, I think. But your standard mint free is great for anybody under 25, just making whatever 15 bucks an hour and has a couple of bills or whatever.
Speaker 3:Right Learning how to track what you're doing and realizing just by pulling, opening up that app and knowing, holy mackerel, I spent that much money last month on lunch I didn't realize. Yeah Well, I need to slow down.
Speaker 1:Exactly Well, and it helps. You can set goals, right. So when we're going back to this goal setting right, so you can set multiple goals, right, it can be retirement, it can be a car right, and then it helps you. So I think saving can be challenging, and the one thing that I remember, right, and when I was saving for a car, when I've had to save for anything, the question's always been right, oh yeah, I could buy this X thing or go to this concert or see this movie with friends, right, but is it worth giving up? Getting closer to having a car? What does that mean to me? Right, right, so that was mobility, freedom, right, all the things that you know every teenager wants. Um, in addition, right, then I was getting to work in all manner of ways, and so there was also the ability to easily get to and from on my own schedule. Um, so it was a question right is Is this movie with friends which has an immediate payoff? I mean, there's something.
Speaker 3:No, we should enjoy life for sure. Let's enjoy life.
Speaker 1:Right, but what are they seeing? What are they doing? Is that worth staying at that point? Whatever $10 away from my goal.
Speaker 3:Right, right right.
Speaker 1:Because, I have to right, I am in high school, making whatever $5 an hour, maybe at that point in time. So here's something else that I just remembered. Anytime I looked at what it would cost to do something or buy something, I would, in my head, automatically calculate how many hours of work it would take me to pay for it.
Speaker 3:See, that's getting really analytical, right, and so a lot of folks I find. Here's what I think part of the issue is. So like, all right, I need to save. The problem with saving I think for most is and again back to Warren Buffett lessons is really learn how to pay yourself first. Because if you pay yourself first which is a form of saving, right and you're trying to reach whatever one, two, five, however many goals you have, right. That if you do that first and then the rest of the paychecks to whatever pay your bills, and you have your entertainment money and all of that, then you can have what, like you know, have your pie and eat it too, kind of a thing, right. But when people pay all of your bills first and see what's left over to save, that's where the problem comes in.
Speaker 3:And so, as I try to teach people, my goal lesson videos are learn how do you pay yourself first. You're going to be able to reach these goals like 10 times faster. And have clear written goals, because Harvard did a study that proves people have clear written goals will earn 10 times more money in their lifetime and achieve their goals a lot faster, right, right. And when you, when you check off a goal. It's like you don't stop having goals. They just you get more and typically they get bigger, right, you know, larger amounts of money type of goals, and so would you agree that if, if you save that way, do you save that way today, or do you save? I make dollar X. My expenses are dollar X. Here's what's left. So let day, or do you save, I make dollar x, my expenses are dollar x.
Speaker 1:Here's what's left, so let's save whatever percentage of that. So, uh, luckily, once, once I shifted and kind of went into the legal world.
Speaker 1:My financial outlook was changed better, right, so that, uh, knowing that I didn't have those previous years of being able to save my, the very first thing I would do would is max out my 401k investment, very first thing, and then whatever else was left over. That's how, then, I adjusted my lifestyle, right. So, yes, saving first only because, right, I real I recognize that all those years in the arts I was at a huge deficit and I needed to get caught up. As we know, I'm never going to really get caught up and can't recapture that lost time. But that was how I kind of dealt with. It was I. I maxed all of that out first.
Speaker 3:So two things catching up. It's a very loose phrase, especially when, I think it comes to money and you're saving for whatever, and or retirement, because you know retirement is, is everybody's personal definitions a little bit different, right? I really highly encourage people, instead of trying to in your mindset, saying I'm going to retire, and what does that really mean, versus I want to get finance to be financially independent, right, right First, and I think, if, if, and I think society, whether you want to call it the government or whoever, has always taught retirement cause. I asked the question. I've been out on the streets and I asked questions and one of them is hey, what age is retirement and what do you think? The answer is for most people.
Speaker 1:Whatever the age you get, social security would be like 65.
Speaker 3:Right, and so if you believe that, if you're trained to believe retirement is an age, then you're going to believe that I have to work until at least then.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 3:When we know that's not the reality, right, and then I'll use someone like Mark Zuckerberg as an example. So here's a genius type kid who developed something that turned him into a billionaire before the age 30. So could he have technically retired? Sure, he could have, but he's too young to. He wanted to follow his passion. It wasn't about money.
Speaker 1:Well, and a lot of people find that they their their job or doing something gives them purpose, purpose Right, right, right.
Speaker 3:So if it, if it happens and retirement seems final. Yes, like I finished. Yeah, I retired, I finished something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah Well, my uncle's quote retired three times.
Speaker 3:Right, and people will tell me that right. I had my sister 10 years ago who lived in Pahrump on basically almost nothing, and she would call herself well, I'm retired. I said you're not retired, You're unemployed. So there's a big difference between saying I'm retired and I'm unemployed, because you could be unemployed with a few dollars and just figure I'm retired. No, and that's why I don't like that term. I rather say are you financially independent, which means is your money, is your money making enough money to support the lifestyle that you want, right, right? And then you use that term a minute ago. So I adjusted lifestyle right, and I think this is where people can have a roadmap, so to speak, of the direction they want to go and what it's. I think it's just human nature, though, that when you make more money, you want nicer things in life or out of life, right, whether it be nicer homes, nicer cars, uh, nicer vacations. Every you know the big ticket.
Speaker 1:I live on the street where I, where she and I saw someone get shanked. Right yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Right, so and yeah and so yeah, an adjustment in lifestyle to move out of, you know, a not good area obviously is going to be a priority on the list. But a lot of folks are out there We've seen this happen with, I would say, athletes, entertainers, who make a lot of money in a short span five, six, eight years and then after that the money's not coming in. They spend all that money, literally millions of dollars, and then they're broke again. Right, Because they didn't have a plan, and then you get predator money people that come in and take advantage and take money.
Speaker 3:So I think that if we can talk to our kids, the earlier the better, and through conversation I know that kids are watching us closely at around seven years old.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:And because I've had these conversations and when I say closely like, is your mom a spender or a saver? And you can tell which one they are and that's why that's who they become. That's how people will become. That way, You're either a saver or spender and in your case, right Single mom at eight, she obviously wasn't a spender because she didn't have it. That's why you didn't become a spender. Now, had your mom been in the position of whatever career she had made a lot of money and was always just buying stuff, you probably would have been a spender.
Speaker 1:May have right If there wasn't a conversation of well, this is still within our budget.
Speaker 3:Right, and then watching the other side of the spectrum of dad doing the opposite, like I make a dime, I'm spending 12 cents, right, I mean, there's a lot of people out there that way. So I think today's lessons, guys, are going to be about learn as much as you can, as early as you can have money conversations. My biggest push I don't care if you're 7, 12, 22, 42, or 52, start talking. You didn't have a mentor, but can you see yourself maybe mentoring someone with in a money conversation? That would help benefit them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I should.
Speaker 3:Right, I think that was camp. Thanks for coming out. This has been really enlightening, I think, for a lot of folks out there who have kids and have went, maybe change a career path. You might've had a little mindset shift with some people out there.
Speaker 1:We can all do it, we can all do it, we can all do it.
Speaker 3:All right, guys. Well, do me a favor If you're watching on YouTube, um, hit that like button. Hit the share button Um, we try to put these out as often as we can uh, usually every couple of weeks. And then, if you're on the podcast service, just subscribe, and I have podcasts coming out on a regular basis. So until then, we'll see you on the next one. Hey, everybody, hope you enjoyed that episode. I really enjoyed making all these episodes for you. Remember, we're just having conversations with people's journey with money and the things they did right with it, the things that did wrong with it, and how did they really come about getting their mindset with money. So every episode is different. We all have a good takeaway from them. So do me a favor, hit the Like button, smash the Like button and subscribe to my channel, because every episode that I do is going to be different, as all our journeys are different. So you guys, take care and we'll talk to you next week.