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Lines","startTime":86.328,"endTime":89.948,"body":"I'm your host, Dan Lines,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":86.328,"endTime":89.948,"body":"LinearB, cofounder and COO."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":90.603,"endTime":96.703,"body":"And today, I'm joined by my guy,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":90.603,"endTime":96.703,"body":"Zach Goldberg, CTO, technical"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":96.843,"endTime":100.958,"body":"executive coach, and author"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":96.843,"endTime":100.958,"body":"of the new book, The Startup"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":101.098,"endTime":105.738,"body":"CTO's Handbook, Essential Skills"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":101.098,"endTime":105.738,"body":"and Best Practices for High"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":105.738,"endTime":107.338,"body":"Performing Engineering Teams."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":107.338,"endTime":109.633,"body":"Zach, great to have"},{"speaker":"Dan 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Goldberg","startTime":352.855,"endTime":354.935,"body":"practice everything you've read?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":354.935,"endTime":356.83,"body":"And in fact, you you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":354.935,"endTime":356.83,"body":"forget, You know, a lot"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":356.83,"endTime":358.67,"body":"of the details, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":356.83,"endTime":358.67,"body":"the really great insights."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":358.67,"endTime":362.75,"body":"So how does one over a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":358.67,"endTime":362.75,"body":"lifetime incorporate all of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":362.75,"endTime":364.91,"body":"the things you've learned"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":362.75,"endTime":364.91,"body":"from various sources?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":364.91,"endTime":365.41,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":365.605,"endTime":368.885,"body":"and I'm always self conscious"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":365.605,"endTime":368.885,"body":"that, you know, I try my best to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":368.885,"endTime":370.325,"body":"incorporate what I've learned."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":370.325,"endTime":372.98,"body":"But certainly, ninety nine"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":370.325,"endTime":372.98,"body":"percent of it at this point"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":373.22,"endTime":375.14,"body":"Is, you know, stored way in the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":373.22,"endTime":375.14,"body":"back of the brain and doesn't"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":375.14,"endTime":376.28,"body":"always make it to the front."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":376.58,"endTime":379.167,"body":"and so part of my I had this"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":376.58,"endTime":379.167,"body":"idea for a long time of,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":379.167,"endTime":381.962,"body":"like, take the best ideas"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":379.167,"endTime":381.962,"body":"from everything I've read and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":381.962,"endTime":384.522,"body":"consolidate that into a single"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":381.962,"endTime":384.522,"body":"tome, right, into a single"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":384.522,"endTime":385.902,"body":"book you know, a book perhaps."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":386.282,"endTime":388.442,"body":"Uh, and my idea, you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":386.282,"endTime":388.442,"body":"years ago was, what if"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":388.442,"endTime":390.442,"body":"I just wrote a book that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":388.442,"endTime":390.442,"body":"summarizes the best bits of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":390.442,"endTime":391.437,"body":"every other book I've read?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":391.597,"endTime":391.837,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":391.837,"endTime":392.957,"body":"Maybe that would be interesting."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":392.957,"endTime":393.617,"body":"That's cool."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":393.677,"endTime":396.157,"body":"Uh, and so put those two"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":393.677,"endTime":396.157,"body":"ideas together, and you get"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":396.157,"endTime":397.617,"body":"the start up CTO's handbook."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":398.187,"endTime":401.922,"body":"What does it,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":398.187,"endTime":401.922,"body":"Like, physically take to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":401.922,"endTime":404.262,"body":"write a book, and I know"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":401.922,"endTime":404.262,"body":"that might sound dumb."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":404.562,"endTime":407.7,"body":"But, Let's say that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":404.562,"endTime":407.7,"body":"I'm a listener, and I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":407.7,"endTime":409.06,"body":"was also consider hey."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":409.06,"endTime":410.6,"body":"I have, like, a bunch of ideas."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":411.06,"endTime":411.38,"body":"Mhmm."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":411.38,"endTime":412.66,"body":"Maybe I started blogging."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":412.66,"endTime":414.5,"body":"I'm, like, doing some"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":412.66,"endTime":414.5,"body":"stuff, and, like, I'd also"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":414.5,"endTime":415.555,"body":"like to To write a book."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":415.555,"endTime":416.835,"body":"Like, what does it take?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":416.835,"endTime":420.515,"body":"Like, what's the what is the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":416.835,"endTime":420.515,"body":"process of actually doing it?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":420.515,"endTime":423.075,"body":"How does a, uh, let's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":420.515,"endTime":423.075,"body":"say, one week look or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":423.075,"endTime":424.68,"body":"a two week cycle look?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":424.76,"endTime":425.24,"body":"Mhmm."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":425.24,"endTime":425.64,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":425.64,"endTime":426.14,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":426.68,"endTime":432.22,"body":"So, you know, it's a bit like"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":426.68,"endTime":432.22,"body":"any other challenging endeavor."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":432.445,"endTime":432.685,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":432.685,"endTime":435.165,"body":"If you wanna learn a new"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":432.685,"endTime":435.165,"body":"language, if you want to go"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":435.165,"endTime":437.965,"body":"get your pilot's license,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":435.165,"endTime":437.965,"body":"if you want to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":437.965,"endTime":440.545,"body":"master pistol shooting,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":437.965,"endTime":440.545,"body":"like, you know, choose some"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":441.11,"endTime":442.23,"body":"Focus that requires mastery."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":442.23,"endTime":446.767,"body":"Uh, the ability to get it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":442.23,"endTime":446.767,"body":"done requires intentional"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":447.067,"endTime":448.767,"body":"setting aside focus time."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":448.902,"endTime":451.782,"body":"If you wanna go learn German,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":448.902,"endTime":451.782,"body":"the best way to do that is to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":451.782,"endTime":454.102,"body":"leave your job, go to Germany,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":451.782,"endTime":454.102,"body":"and just live in Germany and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":454.102,"endTime":455.482,"body":"interact with German people."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":455.542,"endTime":456.042,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":456.177,"endTime":457.617,"body":"do that, and in a couple"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":456.177,"endTime":457.617,"body":"months, you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":457.617,"endTime":458.597,"body":"speak German wonderfully."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":458.927,"endTime":460.127,"body":"So same thing with"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":458.927,"endTime":460.127,"body":"writing a book."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":460.127,"endTime":460.367,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":460.367,"endTime":461.907,"body":"It's not gonna"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":460.367,"endTime":461.907,"body":"happen by accident."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":461.967,"endTime":464.762,"body":"The only way a book gets"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":461.967,"endTime":464.762,"body":"written is if An author has an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":464.762,"endTime":468.442,"body":"idea and sets aside the time,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":464.762,"endTime":468.442,"body":"effort, and makes the space"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":468.442,"endTime":470.522,"body":"for themselves to make it work."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":470.522,"endTime":470.682,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":470.682,"endTime":473.082,"body":"I think Obama famously when"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":470.682,"endTime":473.082,"body":"when he wrote his most recent"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":473.082,"endTime":475.097,"body":"book, like, you know, pieced"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":473.082,"endTime":475.097,"body":"out to an island in the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":475.097,"endTime":477.417,"body":"middle of the Pacific for a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":475.097,"endTime":477.417,"body":"month, uh, and just, like,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":477.417,"endTime":480.057,"body":"you know, no phone calls,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":477.417,"endTime":480.057,"body":"no media, just a month wrote"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":480.057,"endTime":481.152,"body":"the book, uh, which is Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":481.232,"endTime":483.152,"body":"Quasi similar to what"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":481.232,"endTime":483.152,"body":"I did except without"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":483.152,"endTime":484.132,"body":"the Pacific Island."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":484.192,"endTime":489.037,"body":"Uh, I left my job and, basically"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":484.192,"endTime":489.037,"body":"over a month, woke I I kept my"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":489.037,"endTime":492.317,"body":"normal working schedule, uh,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":489.037,"endTime":492.317,"body":"woke up at the same time, ate"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":492.317,"endTime":495.597,"body":"the same meals as as if I was"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":492.317,"endTime":495.597,"body":"working my normal job, except"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":495.597,"endTime":498.632,"body":"rather than running a software"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":495.597,"endTime":498.632,"body":"team, I was sitting in front of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":498.632,"endTime":501.672,"body":"a Google Doc with a word counter"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":498.632,"endTime":501.672,"body":"in the top right as, you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":501.672,"endTime":504.552,"body":"quantitative motivation and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":501.672,"endTime":504.552,"body":"would make a point of writing as"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":504.552,"endTime":506.172,"body":"many words as I could in a day."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":506.667,"endTime":507.387,"body":"Oh, that's awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":507.387,"endTime":507.627,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":507.627,"endTime":510.987,"body":"So you really did carve out,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":507.627,"endTime":510.987,"body":"like, extreme focus time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":510.987,"endTime":513.167,"body":"You treat it like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":510.987,"endTime":513.167,"body":"business hours."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":513.227,"endTime":514.607,"body":"Treat treat it like a job."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":514.772,"endTime":517.202,"body":"It really was"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":514.772,"endTime":517.202,"body":"eight hours a day, uh, and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":517.202,"endTime":518.722,"body":"I I mean, I had fun with it."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":518.722,"endTime":520.722,"body":"I would share some"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":518.722,"endTime":520.722,"body":"paragraphs with friends,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":520.722,"endTime":522.082,"body":"and they're like, what do"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":520.722,"endTime":522.082,"body":"you think of these ideas?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":522.082,"endTime":522.882,"body":"And we'll get feedback."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":522.882,"endTime":526.277,"body":"And so it wasn't Just me, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":522.882,"endTime":526.277,"body":"know, in the in the basement."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":526.607,"endTime":528.847,"body":"and, obviously, it was sitting"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":526.607,"endTime":528.847,"body":"in front of a word processor,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":528.847,"endTime":530.927,"body":"but I tried to make it as"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":528.847,"endTime":530.927,"body":"collaborative as I could"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":530.927,"endTime":533.312,"body":"and, you know, improve the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":530.927,"endTime":533.312,"body":"content as well that way."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":533.872,"endTime":535.952,"body":"Do you think coming"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":533.872,"endTime":535.952,"body":"from a and this will, I think,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":535.952,"endTime":538.832,"body":"be my last, like, how to book"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":535.952,"endTime":538.832,"body":"question, but I just gotta"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":538.832,"endTime":541.587,"body":"ask because I haven't written"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":538.832,"endTime":541.587,"body":"a book before like this."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":541.907,"endTime":544.787,"body":"Do you think coming from a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":541.907,"endTime":544.787,"body":"software background, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":544.787,"endTime":546.467,"body":"influenced the way you wrote it?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":546.467,"endTime":550.247,"body":"And I'm more so thinking about,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":546.467,"endTime":550.247,"body":"like, agile type practices."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":550.307,"endTime":555.082,"body":"Like, Did you try to write"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":550.307,"endTime":555.082,"body":"it, uh, skeleton wise, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":555.082,"endTime":557.962,"body":"end to end and then keep"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":555.082,"endTime":557.962,"body":"iterating, or did you go,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":557.962,"endTime":559.402,"body":"like, chapter by chapter?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":559.402,"endTime":561.837,"body":"Like, How how did you do it?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":561.837,"endTime":562.897,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":561.837,"endTime":562.897,"body":"a great question."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":562.957,"endTime":565.677,"body":"Uh, if I were to map how"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":562.957,"endTime":565.677,"body":"this book was written"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":565.677,"endTime":567.677,"body":"to software engineering"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":565.677,"endTime":567.677,"body":"process, I would describe it."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":567.677,"endTime":568.577,"body":"It it was Kanban."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":568.957,"endTime":569.357,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":569.357,"endTime":572.542,"body":"I had a board with a whole"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":569.357,"endTime":572.542,"body":"bunch of issues that I wanted"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":572.542,"endTime":574.402,"body":"to think about and write about."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":574.542,"endTime":577.342,"body":"And whatever I was feeling"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":574.542,"endTime":577.342,"body":"inspired for in the moment or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":577.342,"endTime":580.547,"body":"whatever felt Most critical to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":577.342,"endTime":580.547,"body":"work on, I pulled that one off."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":580.607,"endTime":582.547,"body":"Worked on that one,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":580.607,"endTime":582.547,"body":"marked it as in progress."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":583.087,"endTime":583.407,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":583.407,"endTime":585.167,"body":"Put together a draft,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":583.407,"endTime":585.167,"body":"then picked up another"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":585.167,"endTime":586.242,"body":"one, and then, You know?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":586.242,"endTime":588.742,"body":"Sort of there was just a board"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":586.242,"endTime":588.742,"body":"where things were pretty fluid."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":589.042,"endTime":594.902,"body":"It wasn't, you know, this week"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":589.042,"endTime":594.902,"body":"is the hiring week, for example."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":595.047,"endTime":597.607,"body":"I think, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":595.047,"endTime":597.607,"body":"a healthy percentage of the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":597.607,"endTime":599.847,"body":"book is about hiring and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":597.607,"endTime":599.847,"body":"interviewing, maybe twenty"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":599.847,"endTime":600.827,"body":"percent of the content."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":601.127,"endTime":603.287,"body":"That was written over the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":601.127,"endTime":603.287,"body":"entire lifespan of the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":603.287,"endTime":604.267,"body":"of the writing journey."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":604.695,"endTime":605.015,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":605.015,"endTime":605.995,"body":"Very, very cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":606.242,"endTime":606.882,"body":"Now okay."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":606.882,"endTime":610.822,"body":"Let's go go back to the book,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":606.882,"endTime":610.822,"body":"The Startup CTO's Handbook."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":611.232,"endTime":613.252,"body":"maybe it's obvious"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":611.232,"endTime":613.252,"body":"this is for CTOs."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":613.792,"endTime":616.357,"body":"But is there a certain"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":613.792,"endTime":616.357,"body":"type of like, who is the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":616.437,"endTime":617.397,"body":"The primary audience."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":617.397,"endTime":620.917,"body":"Like, what type of person or,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":617.397,"endTime":620.917,"body":"like, what experiences should"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":620.917,"endTime":624.332,"body":"you be going through right now"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":620.917,"endTime":624.332,"body":"to get value out of the book?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":624.575,"endTime":625.215,"body":"great question."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":625.215,"endTime":627.876,"body":"And The book is for CTOs,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":625.215,"endTime":627.876,"body":"but it's for anybody who"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":627.876,"endTime":631.571,"body":"is really in any kind of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":627.876,"endTime":631.571,"body":"technical leadership position."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":632.031,"endTime":635.231,"body":"Uh, and so it's not just if"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":632.031,"endTime":635.231,"body":"you're a c level, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":635.231,"endTime":638.211,"body":"director of engineering, or even"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":635.231,"endTime":638.211,"body":"if you're not in the technical"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":638.271,"endTime":640.936,"body":"org, but in some way you're"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":638.271,"endTime":640.936,"body":"responsible for technology,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":641.556,"endTime":644.276,"body":"developing an empathy and an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":641.556,"endTime":644.276,"body":"understanding for what happens"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":644.276,"endTime":645.736,"body":"within the technical org."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":645.796,"endTime":648.261,"body":"Uh, I think the book is also"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":645.796,"endTime":648.261,"body":"helpful for that use case."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":648.707,"endTime":652.707,"body":"and so, you know, the I think"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":648.707,"endTime":652.707,"body":"the the subtitle of my book does"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":652.707,"endTime":654.947,"body":"a lot of the heavy lifting of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":652.707,"endTime":654.947,"body":"describing what the book is."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":654.947,"endTime":655.267,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":655.267,"endTime":657.512,"body":"Like, the title of the book"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":655.267,"endTime":657.512,"body":"Tells you it's technical."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":657.512,"endTime":658.892,"body":"It tells you it's a handbook."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":659.112,"endTime":660.172,"body":"Uh, but the subtitle,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":660.502,"endTime":662.342,"body":"Essential skills and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":660.502,"endTime":662.342,"body":"best practices for"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":662.342,"endTime":663.062,"body":"high performing teams."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":663.062,"endTime":663.542,"body":"Mhmm."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":663.542,"endTime":666.167,"body":"That's What's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":663.542,"endTime":666.167,"body":"actually in the book?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":666.307,"endTime":666.627,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":666.627,"endTime":670.147,"body":"And so it's a collection of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":666.627,"endTime":670.147,"body":"take different topics that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":670.147,"endTime":673.107,"body":"are important to technical"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":670.147,"endTime":673.107,"body":"leadership, and here's some best"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":673.107,"endTime":676.802,"body":"practices, some skills and some"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":673.107,"endTime":676.802,"body":"perspective on how those subject"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":676.802,"endTime":678.422,"body":"matters, can be addressed."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":679.122,"endTime":679.842,"body":"That's really cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":679.842,"endTime":683.027,"body":"And what what I like that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":679.842,"endTime":683.027,"body":"you said most, Uh, for our"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":683.027,"endTime":687.107,"body":"listeners, like, you do not"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":683.027,"endTime":687.107,"body":"have to be a CTO or a c level"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":687.107,"endTime":689.747,"body":"person to get value out of this."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":689.747,"endTime":693.282,"body":"In fact, With this these types"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":689.747,"endTime":693.282,"body":"of books, I really think if"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":693.282,"endTime":696.342,"body":"you're trying to grow your"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":693.282,"endTime":696.342,"body":"career, you're inspired to grow."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":697.202,"endTime":699.897,"body":"Read this Type of stuff now,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":697.202,"endTime":699.897,"body":"maybe you're a team leader,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":699.897,"endTime":701.897,"body":"maybe you're a manager,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":699.897,"endTime":701.897,"body":"maybe you're a developer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":701.897,"endTime":703.197,"body":"looking to be a manager."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":703.337,"endTime":703.657,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":703.657,"endTime":707.542,"body":"This is kinda gives you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":703.657,"endTime":707.542,"body":"Something to be ahead of the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":707.542,"endTime":710.282,"body":"curve or, like, what what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":707.542,"endTime":710.282,"body":"it how should I be thinking?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":710.822,"endTime":711.062,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":711.062,"endTime":714.342,"body":"I think one of the one of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":711.062,"endTime":714.342,"body":"the key elements of being an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":714.342,"endTime":715.397,"body":"amazing team player, Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":715.397,"endTime":717.817,"body":"If your goal is to be a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":715.397,"endTime":717.817,"body":"good team player at work,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":718.037,"endTime":721.257,"body":"right, understanding how"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":718.037,"endTime":721.257,"body":"the people around you think,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":721.317,"endTime":723.497,"body":"what are the stresses and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":721.317,"endTime":723.497,"body":"pressures and responsibilities"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":723.637,"endTime":725.072,"body":"that my coworkers have?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":725.232,"endTime":727.632,"body":"And your your coworkers could"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":725.232,"endTime":727.632,"body":"be other software engineers, or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":727.632,"endTime":729.332,"body":"your manager is also a coworker."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":729.632,"endTime":730.032,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":730.032,"endTime":731.952,"body":"Understanding what are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":730.032,"endTime":731.952,"body":"the stresses that are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":731.952,"endTime":732.932,"body":"placed on management."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":733.237,"endTime":735.557,"body":"Even if you don't ever wanna"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":733.237,"endTime":735.557,"body":"be a manager, you don't wanna"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":735.557,"endTime":737.637,"body":"be responsible for people and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":735.557,"endTime":737.637,"body":"performance reviews like that."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":737.637,"endTime":738.857,"body":"I totally understand that."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":738.957,"endTime":742.752,"body":"even if that's not your goal,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":738.957,"endTime":742.752,"body":"knowing The intricacies and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":742.752,"endTime":745.312,"body":"the nuances of well, actually,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":742.752,"endTime":745.312,"body":"performance reviews are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":745.312,"endTime":747.952,"body":"very complicated, and it's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":745.312,"endTime":747.952,"body":"very easy as an employee"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":747.952,"endTime":748.832,"body":"to be like, oh my god."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":748.832,"endTime":750.737,"body":"This performance review"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":748.832,"endTime":750.737,"body":"process It's terrible."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":750.957,"endTime":752.497,"body":"Like, why did they"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":750.957,"endTime":752.497,"body":"do it this way?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":752.717,"endTime":755.677,"body":"Well, here's some of the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":752.717,"endTime":755.677,"body":"thinking that goes into"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":755.677,"endTime":758.732,"body":"designing those processes, and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":755.677,"endTime":758.732,"body":"It just gives you additional"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":758.732,"endTime":761.452,"body":"perspective, ability to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":758.732,"endTime":761.452,"body":"empathize, and and maybe allows"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":761.452,"endTime":764.092,"body":"you to be more supportive"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":761.452,"endTime":764.092,"body":"and help improve these"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":764.092,"endTime":765.472,"body":"processes in a better way."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":765.767,"endTime":766.007,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":766.007,"endTime":768.187,"body":"Or even do better on"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":766.007,"endTime":768.187,"body":"your performance review."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":768.247,"endTime":770.087,"body":"Understand the concept be yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":770.087,"endTime":771.447,"body":"Understand the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":770.087,"endTime":771.447,"body":"concept behind it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":771.447,"endTime":772.487,"body":"Why do we have to do this?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":772.487,"endTime":773.547,"body":"That type of stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":773.847,"endTime":776.832,"body":"So if we Move now into"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":773.847,"endTime":776.832,"body":"some of the concepts."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":777.131,"endTime":779.771,"body":"What are some of these"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":777.131,"endTime":779.771,"body":"essential skills that you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":779.931,"endTime":781.551,"body":"you're outlining in the book?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":782.171,"endTime":785.626,"body":"So the the book"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":782.171,"endTime":785.626,"body":"has three main Chapters, let's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":785.626,"endTime":787.006,"body":"say, are three main sections."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":787.336,"endTime":789.836,"body":"the first section is what I"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":787.336,"endTime":789.836,"body":"call management fundamentals,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":790.406,"endTime":794.841,"body":"which is not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":790.406,"endTime":794.841,"body":"exclusive to technology, but"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":794.841,"endTime":799.241,"body":"it's, at least for me, a whole"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":794.841,"endTime":799.241,"body":"bucket of things that coming"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":799.241,"endTime":802.366,"body":"into technical management"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":799.241,"endTime":802.366,"body":"aren't related to software"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":802.366,"endTime":804.946,"body":"engineering, aren't related to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":802.366,"endTime":804.946,"body":"writing code, but are essential"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":805.006,"endTime":806.546,"body":"to being an effective leader."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":806.686,"endTime":807.006,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":807.006,"endTime":810.451,"body":"So that's the hiring, The"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":807.006,"endTime":810.451,"body":"interviewing, the performance"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":810.591,"endTime":814.191,"body":"management, the working with"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":810.591,"endTime":814.191,"body":"finance on budgets, managing"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":814.191,"endTime":818.566,"body":"vendors, building culture, how"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":814.191,"endTime":818.566,"body":"to show up as a leader, how"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":818.566,"endTime":821.546,"body":"to drive to decisions without"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":818.566,"endTime":821.546,"body":"rubbing people the wrong way."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":821.857,"endTime":824.097,"body":"All all of these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":821.857,"endTime":824.097,"body":"skills are in the management"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":824.097,"endTime":827.457,"body":"fundamental section, and that's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":824.097,"endTime":827.457,"body":"really just a lot of there's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":827.457,"endTime":830.097,"body":"a couple of sort of larger"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":827.457,"endTime":830.097,"body":"frameworks specifically around"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":830.097,"endTime":832.302,"body":"interviewing and hiring, but"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":830.097,"endTime":832.302,"body":"there's a lot of small things."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":832.302,"endTime":834.242,"body":"Like, how do you think"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":832.302,"endTime":834.242,"body":"about this kind of thing?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":834.412,"endTime":836.992,"body":"one of my favorites, which"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":834.412,"endTime":836.992,"body":"people seem to just enjoy,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":837.292,"endTime":838.652,"body":"uh, is the idea of the hippo."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":838.652,"endTime":838.892,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":838.892,"endTime":841.347,"body":"The highest paid"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":838.892,"endTime":841.347,"body":"person's opinion, uh,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":841.347,"endTime":842.887,"body":"h I p p o or whatever."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":843.107,"endTime":846.067,"body":"And, uh, you know, it's just"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":843.107,"endTime":846.067,"body":"the idea that that opinion,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":846.067,"endTime":848.442,"body":"for whatever reason, because"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":846.067,"endTime":848.442,"body":"they have Whoever has a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":848.442,"endTime":851.662,"body":"fancy title is just heavily"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":848.442,"endTime":851.662,"body":"weighted in people's minds."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":851.802,"endTime":854.202,"body":"And so as a leader who may"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":851.802,"endTime":854.202,"body":"or may not be the hippo,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":854.202,"endTime":855.427,"body":"just be mindful of that."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":855.427,"endTime":855.587,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":855.587,"endTime":857.587,"body":"And that that might change"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":855.587,"endTime":857.587,"body":"your behavior and how you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":857.587,"endTime":858.967,"body":"present yourself in a meeting."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":859.187,"endTime":859.347,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":859.347,"endTime":861.907,"body":"I I make a point of when there's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":859.347,"endTime":861.907,"body":"something being discussed as"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":861.907,"endTime":864.912,"body":"a group, as a team, Almost"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":861.907,"endTime":864.912,"body":"never do I speak first."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":865.052,"endTime":865.212,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":865.212,"endTime":866.732,"body":"I wanna hear everybody"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":865.212,"endTime":866.732,"body":"else's opinion."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":866.732,"endTime":869.452,"body":"I don't wanna bias and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":866.732,"endTime":869.452,"body":"anchor the conversation just"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":869.452,"endTime":870.912,"body":"because I have a CTO title."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":870.927,"endTime":871.167,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":871.167,"endTime":872.707,"body":"That doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":871.167,"endTime":872.707,"body":"my ideas better."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":872.847,"endTime":873.167,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":873.167,"endTime":875.167,"body":"And I certainly don't want"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":873.167,"endTime":875.167,"body":"everybody thinking, oh, we"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":875.167,"endTime":877.727,"body":"have to, like, rationalize"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":875.167,"endTime":877.727,"body":"Zach's opinion in order for"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":877.727,"endTime":878.687,"body":"this conversation to go well."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":878.687,"endTime":879.807,"body":"That that's the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":878.687,"endTime":879.807,"body":"last thing I want."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":879.807,"endTime":880.192,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":880.352,"endTime":880.592,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":880.592,"endTime":883.152,"body":"That's, like, such a bad"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":880.592,"endTime":883.152,"body":"feeling when you're, like, one"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":883.152,"endTime":885.572,"body":"of the con other contributors"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":883.152,"endTime":885.572,"body":"in the conversation."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":886.156,"endTime":886.656,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":886.796,"endTime":888.781,"body":"Oh, the the CTO said"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":886.796,"endTime":888.781,"body":"something, and that shuts"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":888.781,"endTime":889.661,"body":"down the whole conversation."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":889.661,"endTime":889.981,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":889.981,"endTime":892.161,"body":"That's the, uh, that's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":889.981,"endTime":892.161,"body":"where you wanna avoid."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":892.161,"endTime":892.401,"body":"so yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":892.401,"endTime":894.481,"body":"So that's the the first"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":892.401,"endTime":894.481,"body":"section is the, uh, the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":894.481,"endTime":895.461,"body":"management fundamentals."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":895.722,"endTime":898.462,"body":"the second section of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":895.722,"endTime":898.462,"body":"the book is all about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":899.562,"endTime":902.367,"body":"management, but specifically"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":899.562,"endTime":902.367,"body":"to technology teams."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":902.767,"endTime":902.847,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":902.847,"endTime":905.267,"body":"And so this is tech debt."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":905.487,"endTime":907.427,"body":"This is thinking"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":905.487,"endTime":907.427,"body":"about architecture."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":908.094,"endTime":909.909,"body":"this is Sprint cadence."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":909.909,"endTime":910.149,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":910.149,"endTime":910.949,"body":"Do we do sprints?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":910.949,"endTime":911.909,"body":"Do we do Kanban?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":911.909,"endTime":912.309,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":912.309,"endTime":915.109,"body":"So now we're talking actual"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":912.309,"endTime":915.109,"body":"management skills that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":915.109,"endTime":917.854,"body":"really only do apply to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":915.109,"endTime":917.854,"body":"technical teams, uh, in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":917.854,"endTime":919.054,"body":"some way, shape, or form."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":919.054,"endTime":921.534,"body":"And then the third section"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":919.054,"endTime":921.534,"body":"is what I call the actual"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":921.534,"endTime":922.654,"body":"hard technology section."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":922.654,"endTime":925.374,"body":"So this is you know, for"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":922.654,"endTime":925.374,"body":"senior engineers who are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":925.374,"endTime":927.569,"body":"reading this book, this third"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":925.374,"endTime":927.569,"body":"chapter is Probably less"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":927.569,"endTime":930.449,"body":"interesting and less new,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":927.569,"endTime":930.449,"body":"uh, but it's it I would treat"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":930.449,"endTime":933.169,"body":"it as a checklist of, like,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":930.449,"endTime":933.169,"body":"yeah, you really should know"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":933.169,"endTime":936.764,"body":"all of these concepts if you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":933.169,"endTime":936.764,"body":"are going to be a senior lead"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":936.764,"endTime":938.064,"body":"or an engineering manager."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":938.444,"endTime":941.424,"body":"And this is stuff like"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":938.444,"endTime":941.424,"body":"microservices versus monoliths."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":941.484,"endTime":941.644,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":941.644,"endTime":943.584,"body":"Like, what is a service"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":941.644,"endTime":943.584,"body":"oriented architecture?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":944.089,"endTime":945.229,"body":"Understanding idempotency."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":945.529,"endTime":945.769,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":945.769,"endTime":948.109,"body":"Like, why do I care that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":945.769,"endTime":948.109,"body":"my services are idempotent?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":948.489,"endTime":948.809,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":948.809,"endTime":950.649,"body":"If you're a senior, you've"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":948.809,"endTime":950.649,"body":"been around the block,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":950.649,"endTime":951.884,"body":"maybe that's old hat to you."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":952.044,"endTime":954.844,"body":"Uh, but if you're not or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":952.044,"endTime":954.844,"body":"if you're new or if you're"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":954.844,"endTime":957.164,"body":"a manager looking to just,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":954.844,"endTime":957.164,"body":"you know, make sure you've"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":957.164,"endTime":959.319,"body":"got the some of these"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":957.164,"endTime":959.319,"body":"foundational, concepts."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":959.619,"endTime":961.639,"body":"You know, that's sort of what"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":959.619,"endTime":961.639,"body":"that third chapter's for."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":962.099,"endTime":962.419,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":962.419,"endTime":962.819,"body":"Got it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":962.819,"endTime":965.374,"body":"So those are the"},{"speaker":"Dan 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Lines","startTime":977.811,"endTime":980.711,"body":"interesting or most insightful."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":981.166,"endTime":983.566,"body":"Second section, most"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":981.166,"endTime":983.566,"body":"favorite, you know, most"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":983.566,"endTime":985.106,"body":"insightful, and third section?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":986.353,"endTime":986.753,"body":"see."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":986.753,"endTime":989.348,"body":"So, I'm very passionate"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":986.753,"endTime":989.348,"body":"about hiring."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":989.728,"endTime":993.683,"body":"I I think there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":989.728,"endTime":993.683,"body":"of room, uh, to go from a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":993.683,"endTime":996.023,"body":"mediocre hiring process to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":993.683,"endTime":996.023,"body":"an excellent hiring process."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":996.273,"endTime":998.833,"body":"so I'm actually working with"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":996.273,"endTime":998.833,"body":"a company now as part of my"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":998.833,"endTime":1001.608,"body":"my coaching practice, uh,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":998.833,"endTime":1001.608,"body":"where one of the company's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1001.908,"endTime":1005.803,"body":"core, tenants is they want"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1001.908,"endTime":1005.803,"body":"to be a fun place to work."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1006.102,"endTime":1006.423,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1006.423,"endTime":1009.487,"body":"And I've really been thinking"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1006.423,"endTime":1009.487,"body":"about what does it mean to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1009.487,"endTime":1014.387,"body":"hire, uh, you know, talent"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1009.487,"endTime":1014.387,"body":"that contributes to making"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1014.607,"endTime":1015.967,"body":"a work environment fun."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1015.967,"endTime":1018.452,"body":"This is something I I don't"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1015.967,"endTime":1018.452,"body":"I only touch on a little bit"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1018.532,"endTime":1020.452,"body":"In the the first chapter, we"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1018.532,"endTime":1020.452,"body":"call it, you know, the culture"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1020.452,"endTime":1021.912,"body":"interview and and culture match."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1022.452,"endTime":1024.772,"body":"but I'm sure you've you've"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1022.452,"endTime":1024.772,"body":"been in this sort of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1024.772,"endTime":1026.987,"body":"situation where you've got"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1024.772,"endTime":1026.987,"body":"a group of people, Two,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1026.987,"endTime":1028.207,"body":"three, four, five, whatever."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1028.427,"endTime":1031.147,"body":"And conversation flows"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1028.427,"endTime":1031.147,"body":"pretty smoothly, but then"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1031.147,"endTime":1033.307,"body":"another person is added who"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1031.147,"endTime":1033.307,"body":"has a different personality"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1033.307,"endTime":1035.487,"body":"type, and all of a sudden"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1033.307,"endTime":1035.487,"body":"conversations are a lot harder."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1035.742,"endTime":1035.982,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1035.982,"endTime":1039.122,"body":"There's something about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1035.982,"endTime":1039.122,"body":"identifying personality"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1039.422,"endTime":1042.002,"body":"style or decision making"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1039.422,"endTime":1042.002,"body":"and argumentative style"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1042.302,"endTime":1045.337,"body":"that can drive Easy"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1042.302,"endTime":1045.337,"body":"ability for conversation"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1045.337,"endTime":1046.217,"body":"to move and easy not."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1046.217,"endTime":1048.557,"body":"And how do you find something"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1046.217,"endTime":1048.557,"body":"like that in an interview?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1048.557,"endTime":1051.197,"body":"you know, at at scale,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1048.557,"endTime":1051.197,"body":"a lot of companies do"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1051.197,"endTime":1052.337,"body":"personality surveys."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1052.362,"endTime":1054.942,"body":"You know, there's research"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1052.362,"endTime":1054.942,"body":"into what does that look like,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1055.002,"endTime":1057.322,"body":"attention to detail oriented"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1055.002,"endTime":1057.322,"body":"people versus big picture"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1057.322,"endTime":1058.622,"body":"people and things like that."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1058.792,"endTime":1061.052,"body":"and I do think there's a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1058.792,"endTime":1061.052,"body":"a strong place for that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1061.267,"endTime":1062.647,"body":"in the hiring process."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1062.947,"endTime":1067.027,"body":"but I think, really, the the key"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1062.947,"endTime":1067.027,"body":"insight is what I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1067.027,"endTime":1070.742,"body":"of companies don't spend enough"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1067.027,"endTime":1070.742,"body":"time on is understanding what"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1070.742,"endTime":1072.922,"body":"actually is the ideal candidate."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1073.702,"endTime":1074.102,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1074.102,"endTime":1076.742,"body":"Most companies spend the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1074.102,"endTime":1076.742,"body":"vast majority of their time"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1076.742,"endTime":1079.627,"body":"filtering resumes, going"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1076.742,"endTime":1079.627,"body":"through, you know, interviews"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1079.687,"endTime":1081.147,"body":"and technical streams, whatever."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1081.767,"endTime":1084.647,"body":"What percentage of the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1081.767,"endTime":1084.647,"body":"time thinking about hiring"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1084.647,"endTime":1087.287,"body":"is actually answering the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1084.647,"endTime":1087.287,"body":"question, what kind of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1087.287,"endTime":1090.302,"body":"candidate What properties"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1087.287,"endTime":1090.302,"body":"does the best candidate have?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1090.602,"endTime":1091.082,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1091.082,"endTime":1092.682,"body":"What what is their"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1091.082,"endTime":1092.682,"body":"personality type?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1092.682,"endTime":1095.662,"body":"Are they more the attention"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1092.682,"endTime":1095.662,"body":"to detail kind of person?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1095.867,"endTime":1098.287,"body":"Or, you know, are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1095.867,"endTime":1098.287,"body":"they perfectionists"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1098.827,"endTime":1100.047,"body":"or are they scrappy?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1100.347,"endTime":1100.747,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1100.747,"endTime":1102.367,"body":"Are they very vocal?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1102.427,"endTime":1102.747,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1102.747,"endTime":1105.812,"body":"And going to make noise about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1102.747,"endTime":1105.812,"body":"every single problem they"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1105.812,"endTime":1109.412,"body":"find, or are they perfectly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1105.812,"endTime":1109.412,"body":"comfortable living in a world"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1109.412,"endTime":1110.392,"body":"where things are a mess?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1110.452,"endTime":1112.067,"body":"And I'm not judging"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1110.452,"endTime":1112.067,"body":"any of these."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1112.147,"endTime":1112.307,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1112.307,"endTime":1115.027,"body":"I think different situations,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1112.307,"endTime":1115.027,"body":"different ones, these could"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1115.027,"endTime":1116.087,"body":"be strengths or weaknesses."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1116.467,"endTime":1119.587,"body":"What is this person where"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1116.467,"endTime":1119.587,"body":"what kind of company has"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1119.587,"endTime":1120.707,"body":"this person worked at before?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1120.707,"endTime":1121.927,"body":"Where are they working now?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1122.202,"endTime":1124.942,"body":"If you're a small start up, I"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1122.202,"endTime":1124.942,"body":"get this question all the time."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1125.162,"endTime":1126.042,"body":"I'm a start up."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1126.042,"endTime":1128.762,"body":"We have five people, ten"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1126.042,"endTime":1128.762,"body":"people at the whole company,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1128.762,"endTime":1131.427,"body":"and we're looking to hire"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1128.762,"endTime":1131.427,"body":"this guy from, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1131.427,"endTime":1131.927,"body":"Netflix."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1132.387,"endTime":1132.867,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1132.867,"endTime":1135.187,"body":"Which has how many thousands"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1132.867,"endTime":1135.187,"body":"and thousands of engineers."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1135.187,"endTime":1137.827,"body":"It's like, Zach, do you think"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1135.187,"endTime":1137.827,"body":"hiring this guy for Netflix is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1137.827,"endTime":1139.047,"body":"gonna be great for my company?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1139.492,"endTime":1142.132,"body":"I said, well, Netflix,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1139.492,"endTime":1142.132,"body":"obviously, phenomenal"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1142.132,"endTime":1144.872,"body":"engineering team, like, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1142.132,"endTime":1144.872,"body":"know, very, very smart people."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1145.362,"endTime":1148.827,"body":"but there is a risk that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1145.362,"endTime":1148.827,"body":"somebody who doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1148.827,"endTime":1151.947,"body":"experience working in a team"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1148.827,"endTime":1151.947,"body":"of five people isn't going to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1151.947,"endTime":1153.647,"body":"enjoy the start up environment."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1154.107,"endTime":1154.347,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1154.347,"endTime":1154.987,"body":"And then just Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1155.147,"endTime":1156.992,"body":"For some people, they like"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1155.147,"endTime":1156.992,"body":"it, some people, they don't."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1157.152,"endTime":1160.052,"body":"And so that is an additional"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1157.152,"endTime":1160.052,"body":"risk in that hire."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1160.592,"endTime":1160.992,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1160.992,"endTime":1163.472,"body":"Versus if, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1160.992,"endTime":1163.472,"body":"if you had somebody with"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1163.472,"endTime":1166.357,"body":"similar level of similar number"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1163.472,"endTime":1166.357,"body":"of years of experience in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1166.357,"endTime":1168.997,"body":"programming whatever programming"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1166.357,"endTime":1168.997,"body":"language, and all their whole"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1168.997,"endTime":1170.377,"body":"career has been start ups."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1170.597,"endTime":1170.917,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1170.917,"endTime":1172.917,"body":"The risk that they don't"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1170.917,"endTime":1172.917,"body":"like your start up is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1172.917,"endTime":1175.502,"body":"much lower, right, just"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1172.917,"endTime":1175.502,"body":"by virtue of the fact that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1175.502,"endTime":1176.402,"body":"they have that experience."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1176.622,"endTime":1179.612,"body":"And so really thinking through"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1176.622,"endTime":1179.612,"body":"this process, I think saves"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1179.852,"endTime":1182.497,"body":"it makes it a lot easier to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1179.852,"endTime":1182.497,"body":"know when When you're at the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1182.497,"endTime":1184.657,"body":"other end of the hiring process"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1182.497,"endTime":1184.657,"body":"and you have two candidates"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1184.657,"endTime":1186.817,"body":"who've passed your interview,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1184.657,"endTime":1186.817,"body":"which one of these candidates"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1186.817,"endTime":1188.277,"body":"is likely to be a better fit?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1188.337,"endTime":1191.252,"body":"The more you've thought about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1188.337,"endTime":1191.252,"body":"what a good fit is upfront, The"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1191.252,"endTime":1194.452,"body":"easier that decision is out is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1191.252,"endTime":1194.452,"body":"out the back and likely the the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1194.452,"endTime":1197.172,"body":"higher ten percent chance of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1194.452,"endTime":1197.172,"body":"success, uh, with that hire."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1197.172,"endTime":1197.672,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1197.947,"endTime":1198.747,"body":"Totally makes sense."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1198.747,"endTime":1200.907,"body":"I I can say, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1198.747,"endTime":1200.907,"body":"even guilty of that, of,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1200.907,"endTime":1204.667,"body":"like, putting, like, too"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1200.907,"endTime":1204.667,"body":"much effort almost into the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1204.667,"endTime":1206.287,"body":"interview process itself."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1206.883,"endTime":1210.883,"body":"Ton of effort goes there as"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1206.883,"endTime":1210.883,"body":"opposed to, like, upfront."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1210.883,"endTime":1213.123,"body":"Are we all on the same page"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1210.883,"endTime":1213.123,"body":"of what we're looking for?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1213.123,"endTime":1215.363,"body":"Because, also, if you're in the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1213.123,"endTime":1215.363,"body":"on the same page of what you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1215.363,"endTime":1219.107,"body":"looking for, everyone's Going"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1215.363,"endTime":1219.107,"body":"to, like, adapt their interview"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1219.647,"endTime":1222.207,"body":"style to make sure you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1219.647,"endTime":1222.207,"body":"asking the right questions."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1222.207,"endTime":1222.707,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1222.767,"endTime":1224.047,"body":"So you'll get in that situation."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1224.047,"endTime":1224.287,"body":"Hey."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1224.287,"endTime":1227.052,"body":"We have three candidates, and,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1224.287,"endTime":1227.052,"body":"like, We're totally in disagree"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1227.133,"endTime":1231.072,"body":"we all they might all be good"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1227.133,"endTime":1231.072,"body":"in, like, a certain company,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1231.692,"endTime":1234.013,"body":"but we're not in agreement"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1231.692,"endTime":1234.013,"body":"of what's the best for us."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1234.013,"endTime":1234.993,"body":"Like, that sucks."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1235.597,"endTime":1237.677,"body":"I think it's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1235.597,"endTime":1237.677,"body":"actually here here's the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1237.677,"endTime":1239.377,"body":"insight from the chapters."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1240.045,"endTime":1244.03,"body":"a person's fit at your"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1240.045,"endTime":1244.03,"body":"company, Like, being really"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1244.03,"endTime":1248.59,"body":"precise on what that is is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1244.03,"endTime":1248.59,"body":"actually that precision, that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1248.59,"endTime":1250.67,"body":"framework, whatever that is,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1248.59,"endTime":1250.67,"body":"that list of requirements,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1250.67,"endTime":1253.375,"body":"list of responsibilities,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1250.67,"endTime":1253.375,"body":"list of competencies These"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1253.375,"endTime":1256.115,"body":"should be the exact same"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1253.375,"endTime":1256.115,"body":"thing in the job description."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1256.735,"endTime":1259.635,"body":"It should be the same way that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1256.735,"endTime":1259.635,"body":"the interviews are evaluated,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1260.09,"endTime":1262.41,"body":"and it should be what the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1260.09,"endTime":1262.41,"body":"person is held accountable"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1262.41,"endTime":1264.99,"body":"for in their performance"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1262.41,"endTime":1264.99,"body":"reviews down the line."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1265.69,"endTime":1266.01,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1266.01,"endTime":1266.33,"body":"If Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1266.41,"endTime":1268.97,"body":"You know, you want a scrappy"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1266.41,"endTime":1268.97,"body":"engineer who's just gonna ship"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1268.97,"endTime":1272.625,"body":"code really quickly and the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1268.97,"endTime":1272.625,"body":"quality bar is low, you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1272.625,"endTime":1276.245,"body":"for whatever reason, then the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1272.625,"endTime":1276.245,"body":"the JD should talk about that."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1276.305,"endTime":1278.305,"body":"When you interview the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1276.305,"endTime":1278.305,"body":"person, their scores"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1278.305,"endTime":1279.52,"body":"should be related to that."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1279.52,"endTime":1281.84,"body":"And then when they're actually"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1279.52,"endTime":1281.84,"body":"on the job and they're getting"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1281.84,"endTime":1284.26,"body":"performance reviews, it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1281.84,"endTime":1284.26,"body":"should be the same criteria."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1284.56,"endTime":1284.72,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1284.72,"endTime":1287.3,"body":"You want a a level of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1284.72,"endTime":1287.3,"body":"consistency of expectation"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1287.905,"endTime":1290.245,"body":"for what does success"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1287.905,"endTime":1290.245,"body":"for this role look like."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1290.385,"endTime":1290.705,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1290.705,"endTime":1293.285,"body":"And that the start of that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1290.705,"endTime":1293.285,"body":"process is your job description."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1293.998,"endTime":1295.3,"body":"Totally"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1293.998,"endTime":1295.3,"body":"make Sense to me."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1295.3,"endTime":1299.54,"body":"And, actually, honestly, best"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1295.3,"endTime":1299.54,"body":"case one a good case scenario"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1299.54,"endTime":1301.78,"body":"is even in the first interview,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1299.54,"endTime":1301.78,"body":"you might be talking to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1301.78,"endTime":1303.32,"body":"someone very, very intelligent."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1303.825,"endTime":1305.745,"body":"But even if they can say, hey."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1305.745,"endTime":1307.525,"body":"I I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1305.745,"endTime":1307.525,"body":"I'm the right fit."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1307.962,"endTime":1308.282,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1308.282,"endTime":1308.922,"body":"Self selection."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1308.922,"endTime":1309.402,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1309.402,"endTime":1311.242,"body":"Let's move on to the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1309.402,"endTime":1311.242,"body":"next, you know, person"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1311.242,"endTime":1312.282,"body":"or someone can say, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1312.282,"endTime":1314.607,"body":"I think I am a good"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1312.282,"endTime":1314.607,"body":"oftentimes, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1314.607,"endTime":1316.067,"body":"the candidates know either"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1316.58,"endTime":1319.22,"body":"so from your experience,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1316.58,"endTime":1319.22,"body":"if we're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1319.22,"endTime":1324.305,"body":"earlier stage companies,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1319.22,"endTime":1324.305,"body":"Series a, even series b, are"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1324.305,"endTime":1328.305,"body":"there any characteristics"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1324.305,"endTime":1328.305,"body":"or behaviors, for developers"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1328.365,"endTime":1330.8,"body":"that you Should look for in"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1328.365,"endTime":1330.8,"body":"the interview process people"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1330.8,"endTime":1333.94,"body":"that tend to do better in"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1330.8,"endTime":1333.94,"body":"those early stage settings."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1334.88,"endTime":1335.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1335.2,"endTime":1337.86,"body":"You know, of course, I wanna"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1335.2,"endTime":1337.86,"body":"be very careful about saying,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1337.92,"endTime":1340.415,"body":"you know, Universalities"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1337.92,"endTime":1340.415,"body":"for any type of company."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1340.415,"endTime":1341.375,"body":"Companies are different."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1341.375,"endTime":1342.675,"body":"Circumstances are different."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1342.815,"endTime":1345.055,"body":"Different managers work well"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1342.815,"endTime":1345.055,"body":"with different employees,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1345.055,"endTime":1346.115,"body":"different different candidates."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1346.56,"endTime":1350.08,"body":"But I think what is pretty safe"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1346.56,"endTime":1350.08,"body":"to say, uh, is one clear line"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1350.08,"endTime":1353.04,"body":"you can draw is whether or not"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1350.08,"endTime":1353.04,"body":"the company is either finding"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1353.04,"endTime":1356.245,"body":"product market fit or growing"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1353.04,"endTime":1356.245,"body":"and scaling product market fit."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1356.405,"endTime":1356.645,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1356.645,"endTime":1359.445,"body":"And that pre product market"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1356.645,"endTime":1359.445,"body":"fit time, you're throwing"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1359.445,"endTime":1361.605,"body":"stuff against the wall as"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1359.445,"endTime":1361.605,"body":"fast as possible to try and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1361.605,"endTime":1362.645,"body":"find something that sticks."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1362.645,"endTime":1362.965,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1362.965,"endTime":1365.02,"body":"And so so you wanna"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1362.965,"endTime":1365.02,"body":"ignore some cost fallacy."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1365.02,"endTime":1367.5,"body":"You want folks who are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1365.02,"endTime":1367.5,"body":"very comfortable working"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1367.5,"endTime":1370.3,"body":"on a prototype for a period"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1367.5,"endTime":1370.3,"body":"of time, and then, well,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1370.3,"endTime":1371.1,"body":"customers didn't like it."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1371.1,"endTime":1373.005,"body":"They're gonna throw it away,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1371.1,"endTime":1373.005,"body":"and we'll do something else."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1373.085,"endTime":1374.845,"body":"And that's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1373.085,"endTime":1374.845,"body":"a reflection of an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1374.845,"endTime":1375.825,"body":"engineer's performance."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1376.125,"endTime":1376.365,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1376.365,"endTime":1379.505,"body":"That's just the nature of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1376.365,"endTime":1379.505,"body":"trying things and and adapting."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1379.885,"endTime":1382.63,"body":"And I think if you get"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1379.885,"endTime":1382.63,"body":"a mismatch there, That"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1382.63,"endTime":1386.09,"body":"is it it it's a really"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1382.63,"endTime":1386.09,"body":"hard thing for morale."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1386.47,"endTime":1386.63,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1386.63,"endTime":1389.11,"body":"It's very easy and and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1386.63,"endTime":1389.11,"body":"totally reasonable."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1389.11,"endTime":1390.87,"body":"Engineers take pride in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1389.11,"endTime":1390.87,"body":"the work that they do."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1390.87,"endTime":1391.83,"body":"Like, you're building things."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1391.83,"endTime":1393.485,"body":"You're putting all this"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1391.83,"endTime":1393.485,"body":"time and effort in."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1393.485,"endTime":1396.685,"body":"And then for the business to say"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1393.485,"endTime":1396.685,"body":"six weeks later, actually, we're"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1396.685,"endTime":1398.925,"body":"not gonna go this direction"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1396.685,"endTime":1398.925,"body":"because, you know, whatever"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1398.925,"endTime":1402.31,"body":"the market is telling us, Throw"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1398.925,"endTime":1402.31,"body":"away all the work you just did."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1402.37,"endTime":1402.69,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1402.69,"endTime":1405.09,"body":"You need to, a, set"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1402.69,"endTime":1405.09,"body":"the expectation upfront"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1405.09,"endTime":1405.99,"body":"that that's possible."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1406.29,"endTime":1406.69,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1406.69,"endTime":1410.425,"body":"And then just have a a team"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1406.69,"endTime":1410.425,"body":"That is okay with that, and,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1410.425,"endTime":1413.325,"body":"you know, that they've signed"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1410.425,"endTime":1413.325,"body":"on for that journey upfront."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1413.785,"endTime":1415.465,"body":"Uh, and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1413.785,"endTime":1415.465,"body":"a key thing in that pre"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1415.465,"endTime":1416.63,"body":"product market fit phase."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1416.87,"endTime":1417.51,"body":"Great example."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1417.51,"endTime":1419.51,"body":"It's like a bill"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1417.51,"endTime":1419.51,"body":"like willingness or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1419.51,"endTime":1420.65,"body":"openness to change."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1420.79,"endTime":1421.27,"body":"It's like, hey."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1421.27,"endTime":1424.998,"body":"You're gonna be measured"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1421.27,"endTime":1424.998,"body":"on your willingness to Come"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1424.998,"endTime":1427.718,"body":"up with ideas, collaborate,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1424.998,"endTime":1427.718,"body":"change the direction."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1427.718,"endTime":1428.998,"body":"How fast can you do that?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1428.998,"endTime":1430.378,"body":"We highly value that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1430.598,"endTime":1432.358,"body":"And some people might"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1430.598,"endTime":1432.358,"body":"self select out."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1432.358,"endTime":1432.758,"body":"Like, no."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1432.758,"endTime":1433.093,"body":"I like."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1433.093,"endTime":1433.253,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1433.253,"endTime":1433.413,"body":"I like Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1434.053,"endTime":1437.033,"body":"Projects, long period of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1434.053,"endTime":1437.033,"body":"time, the direction set."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1437.173,"endTime":1438.253,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1437.173,"endTime":1438.253,"body":"then I don't blame you."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1438.253,"endTime":1440.453,"body":"You know, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1438.253,"endTime":1440.453,"body":"really interesting problems in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1440.453,"endTime":1442.153,"body":"distributed computing, scaling."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1442.678,"endTime":1445.398,"body":"Now most startups don't"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1442.678,"endTime":1445.398,"body":"have trouble scaling"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1445.398,"endTime":1448.118,"body":"to multiple regions and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1445.398,"endTime":1448.118,"body":"hundreds of processors and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1448.118,"endTime":1449.398,"body":"big Kubernetes clusters."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1449.398,"endTime":1451.878,"body":"Like, those are real problems,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1449.398,"endTime":1451.878,"body":"very interesting problems."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1451.878,"endTime":1454.023,"body":"And, like, I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1451.878,"endTime":1454.023,"body":"sounds like tons of fun to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1454.023,"endTime":1457.703,"body":"me, but that's not the problem"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1454.023,"endTime":1457.703,"body":"that the vast majority of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1457.703,"endTime":1459.643,"body":"seed, a, b companies have."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1460.098,"endTime":1460.578,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1460.578,"endTime":1462.418,"body":"You would love to get"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1460.578,"endTime":1462.418,"body":"there if you're series a."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1462.418,"endTime":1463.738,"body":"You would love that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1462.418,"endTime":1463.738,"body":"to be your problem."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1463.938,"endTime":1464.738,"body":"Champagne problems."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1464.738,"endTime":1465.058,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1465.058,"endTime":1465.558,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1466.498,"endTime":1466.898,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1466.898,"endTime":1467.398,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1467.618,"endTime":1470.523,"body":"So, You know, first part"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1467.618,"endTime":1470.523,"body":"of the book, I know there's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1470.523,"endTime":1471.883,"body":"ton tons of topics there."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1471.883,"endTime":1474.683,"body":"We only, like, talked about"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1471.883,"endTime":1474.683,"body":"one of them, but I I do really"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1474.683,"endTime":1477.588,"body":"like that insider takeaway"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1474.683,"endTime":1477.588,"body":"of, like, Spending time in the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1477.588,"endTime":1481.608,"body":"interview, uh, hiring process on"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1477.588,"endTime":1481.608,"body":"what is the right fit upfront."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1482.548,"endTime":1485.323,"body":"If we move to section two,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1482.548,"endTime":1485.323,"body":"remind us what section"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1485.403,"endTime":1488.283,"body":"two is and let's, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1485.403,"endTime":1488.283,"body":"choose, like, one thing one"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1488.283,"endTime":1489.903,"body":"insight to dive into there."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1489.963,"endTime":1490.443,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1490.443,"endTime":1493.023,"body":"That's the, uh, the technical"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1490.443,"endTime":1493.023,"body":"leadership concepts."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1493.668,"endTime":1495.908,"body":"I think my one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1493.668,"endTime":1495.908,"body":"pieces of this chapter"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1495.908,"endTime":1498.248,"body":"is just the conversation"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1495.908,"endTime":1498.248,"body":"around developer experience."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1498.738,"endTime":1501.378,"body":"and I'm I'm so glad that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1498.738,"endTime":1501.378,"body":"sort of across the industry,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1501.378,"endTime":1504.563,"body":"there seems to be a phrase"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1501.378,"endTime":1504.563,"body":"And an idea that's catching"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1504.563,"endTime":1508.403,"body":"on very quickly, I think five"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1504.563,"endTime":1508.403,"body":"or ten years ago, the phrase"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1508.403,"endTime":1509.623,"body":"maybe didn't even exist."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1510.163,"endTime":1513.688,"body":"But now pretty much everybody"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1510.163,"endTime":1513.688,"body":"has some Part of their"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1513.688,"endTime":1516.488,"body":"process or is thinking about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1513.688,"endTime":1516.488,"body":"developer experience as its"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1516.488,"endTime":1517.708,"body":"own thing, which is wonderful."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1518.408,"endTime":1518.908,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1519.448,"endTime":1522.513,"body":"I I was actually I was talking"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1519.448,"endTime":1522.513,"body":"to an engineer a month or two"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1522.513,"endTime":1524.833,"body":"ago about, you know, what is DX?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1524.833,"endTime":1527.093,"body":"And and or he asked me,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1524.833,"endTime":1527.093,"body":"like, Zach, what is good DX?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1527.473,"endTime":1529.218,"body":"And I said, here's my answer."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1529.698,"endTime":1533.158,"body":"Imagine a code base with"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1529.698,"endTime":1533.158,"body":"really clear instructions."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1533.298,"endTime":1536.118,"body":"It's a single command to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1533.298,"endTime":1536.118,"body":"get everything compiled"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1536.258,"endTime":1537.223,"body":"and ready to run."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1537.623,"endTime":1541.223,"body":"And imagine you're given a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1537.623,"endTime":1541.223,"body":"ticket to build a feature, and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1541.223,"endTime":1544.523,"body":"it's super easy to find in the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1541.223,"endTime":1544.523,"body":"code base where that feature is."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1544.568,"endTime":1546.508,"body":"And then you make the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1544.568,"endTime":1546.508,"body":"change in the code."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1546.648,"endTime":1547.948,"body":"The type system passes."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1548.328,"endTime":1551.583,"body":"The feature runs correctly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1548.328,"endTime":1551.583,"body":"the very first time."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1551.743,"endTime":1554.703,"body":"And then you go to add tests and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1551.743,"endTime":1554.703,"body":"the libraries are just there."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1554.703,"endTime":1556.003,"body":"The patterns are clear."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1556.383,"endTime":1558.863,"body":"It's easy to add your"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1556.383,"endTime":1558.863,"body":"functional test that tests"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1558.863,"endTime":1560.083,"body":"actually what you want."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1560.368,"endTime":1563.328,"body":"And then your pull review"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1560.368,"endTime":1563.328,"body":"process takes less than, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1563.328,"endTime":1565.888,"body":"know, two hours from start to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1563.328,"endTime":1565.888,"body":"finish, opening the PR, getting"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1565.888,"endTime":1568.948,"body":"the feedback, and then your"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1565.888,"endTime":1568.948,"body":"code is merged that afternoon."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1569.233,"endTime":1571.393,"body":"You didn't have to fight"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1569.233,"endTime":1571.393,"body":"a single trace back that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1571.393,"endTime":1572.773,"body":"wasn't related to your code."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1572.993,"endTime":1576.453,"body":"You didn't have any friction"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1572.993,"endTime":1576.453,"body":"integrating with other services."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1576.753,"endTime":1580.538,"body":"You didn't have to spend time"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1576.753,"endTime":1580.538,"body":"browsing documentation or or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1580.538,"endTime":1583.818,"body":"finding another engineer, asking"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1580.538,"endTime":1583.818,"body":"them to help you debug something"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1583.818,"endTime":1585.038,"body":"unrelated to your work."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1585.178,"endTime":1585.338,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1585.338,"endTime":1590.763,"body":"Doesn't that sound like, a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1585.338,"endTime":1590.763,"body":"joyful way to get work done."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1591.223,"endTime":1591.623,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1591.623,"endTime":1595.158,"body":"I think every team should"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1591.623,"endTime":1595.158,"body":"in themselves Paint that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1595.158,"endTime":1598.218,"body":"meant mental cathedral of,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1595.158,"endTime":1598.218,"body":"like, what is the best DX?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1598.598,"endTime":1601.878,"body":"Like, if I could wake up in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1598.598,"endTime":1601.878,"body":"the morning and just do the fun"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1601.878,"endTime":1605.013,"body":"parts of software engineering,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1601.878,"endTime":1605.013,"body":"What would that look like?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1605.313,"endTime":1607.233,"body":"And that's your no star"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1605.313,"endTime":1607.233,"body":"pre developer experience."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1607.313,"endTime":1608.833,"body":"The stuff"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1607.313,"endTime":1608.833,"body":"that LinearB is measuring"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1608.833,"endTime":1611.398,"body":"that you and I used to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1608.833,"endTime":1611.398,"body":"talk about all the time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1611.558,"endTime":1612.038,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1612.038,"endTime":1614.678,"body":"You can start with, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1612.038,"endTime":1614.678,"body":"DoraMetrics, but flaky tests,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1614.678,"endTime":1616.378,"body":"for example, and build times."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1616.678,"endTime":1617.178,"body":"Mhmm."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1617.718,"endTime":1621.243,"body":"How fast can I get up and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1617.718,"endTime":1621.243,"body":"Running, uh, after I'm hired?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1621.243,"endTime":1622.763,"body":"What's the onboarding"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1621.243,"endTime":1622.763,"body":"process like?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1622.763,"endTime":1624.763,"body":"When how can I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1622.763,"endTime":1624.763,"body":"contribute to value?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1624.763,"endTime":1626.223,"body":"How does my release look?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1626.603,"endTime":1627.403,"body":"All that stuff."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1627.403,"endTime":1628.223,"body":"Super important."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1629.018,"endTime":1629.178,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1629.178,"endTime":1632.378,"body":"I I would think, uh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1629.178,"endTime":1632.378,"body":"the the gold star is can a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1632.378,"endTime":1636.298,"body":"new engineer employee on day"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1632.378,"endTime":1636.298,"body":"one ship something on day one?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1636.298,"endTime":1637.338,"body":"Ties that value."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1637.588,"endTime":1638.083,"body":"Feasible."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1638.532,"endTime":1639.032,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1639.252,"endTime":1639.752,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1640.192,"endTime":1643.907,"body":"do you have, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1640.192,"endTime":1643.907,"body":"a Insight or a takeaway there?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1643.907,"endTime":1645.747,"body":"Is it, like, you should"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1643.907,"endTime":1645.747,"body":"be measuring this?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1646.188,"endTime":1649.723,"body":"what did you learn While"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1646.188,"endTime":1649.723,"body":"writing the book on that topic."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1650.311,"endTime":1654.791,"body":"So I think that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1650.311,"endTime":1654.791,"body":"the key idea is investing in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1654.791,"endTime":1656.656,"body":"DX in developer experience."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1656.876,"endTime":1658.416,"body":"Investing in tech debt."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1658.556,"endTime":1661.536,"body":"These are not long term"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1658.556,"endTime":1661.536,"body":"payoff investments."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1662.396,"endTime":1662.716,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1662.716,"endTime":1666.781,"body":"Like, I think Many teams"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1662.716,"endTime":1666.781,"body":"the engineers will tell you."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1666.781,"endTime":1669.821,"body":"The engineers know that we"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1666.781,"endTime":1669.821,"body":"need to do this tech debt."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1669.821,"endTime":1670.061,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1670.061,"endTime":1671.361,"body":"Like, it's worth prioritizing."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1671.886,"endTime":1675.086,"body":"And the struggle generally is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1671.886,"endTime":1675.086,"body":"convincing the project managers,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1675.086,"endTime":1679.881,"body":"the higher ups, the managers"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1675.086,"endTime":1679.881,"body":"that it's worth doing putting"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1679.881,"endTime":1682.861,"body":"the time into the developer"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1679.881,"endTime":1682.861,"body":"experience in the tech debt."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1682.921,"endTime":1688.116,"body":"Uh, and I I am joining that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1682.921,"endTime":1688.116,"body":"course, uh, voices as a manager"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1688.116,"endTime":1691.336,"body":"myself, as the guy who wrote the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1688.116,"endTime":1691.336,"body":"CTO's handbook, that absolutely"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1692.116,"endTime":1696.216,"body":"those things are worth the time"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1692.116,"endTime":1696.216,"body":"because the payoff is so fast."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1696.701,"endTime":1696.861,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1696.861,"endTime":1699.661,"body":"If you can get rid of twenty"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1696.861,"endTime":1699.661,"body":"minutes of headache that an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1699.661,"endTime":1703.021,"body":"engineer has every day by"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1699.661,"endTime":1703.021,"body":"making the build a little bit"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1703.021,"endTime":1706.756,"body":"quicker We're reducing the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1703.021,"endTime":1706.756,"body":"number of spurious failures"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1706.756,"endTime":1708.116,"body":"or flaky tests or whatever."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1708.116,"endTime":1708.616,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1708.916,"endTime":1711.656,"body":"That multiplies not just"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1708.916,"endTime":1711.656,"body":"in the twenty minutes."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1711.781,"endTime":1711.941,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1711.941,"endTime":1713.861,"body":"But think about the additional"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1711.941,"endTime":1713.861,"body":"context switching, the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1713.861,"endTime":1714.841,"body":"additional frustration."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1715.541,"endTime":1715.861,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1715.861,"endTime":1717.861,"body":"The time venting to other"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1715.861,"endTime":1717.861,"body":"colleagues about how"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1717.861,"endTime":1719.401,"body":"annoying the build system is."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1719.461,"endTime":1722.786,"body":"All of that goes away, and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1719.461,"endTime":1722.786,"body":"it allows you to just spend"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1722.786,"endTime":1724.786,"body":"your mental energy, that focus"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1722.786,"endTime":1724.786,"body":"time that we were talking"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1724.786,"endTime":1727.826,"body":"about earlier, actually on"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1724.786,"endTime":1727.826,"body":"the creative work that is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1727.826,"endTime":1729.446,"body":"developing value for your users."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1729.861,"endTime":1730.181,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1730.181,"endTime":1730.261,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1730.261,"endTime":1730.761,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1730.821,"endTime":1734.101,"body":"And I think, like, the the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1730.821,"endTime":1734.101,"body":"skill that's needed as the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1734.101,"endTime":1736.981,"body":"leader is to be able to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1734.101,"endTime":1736.981,"body":"convey that to the business"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1736.981,"endTime":1741.346,"body":"stakeholders in a way that they"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1736.981,"endTime":1741.346,"body":"Believe and understand you."},{"speaker":"Dan 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Lines","startTime":1767.381,"endTime":1770.421,"body":"gotta back me on letting"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1767.381,"endTime":1770.421,"body":"us solve these problems."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1770.421,"endTime":1772.696,"body":"Like, I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1770.421,"endTime":1772.696,"body":"like Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1772.696,"endTime":1775.756,"body":"That's one of the missing pieces"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1772.696,"endTime":1775.756,"body":"that I see from, like, some"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1776.296,"endTime":1780.161,"body":"executive engineering leaders is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1776.296,"endTime":1780.161,"body":"not being able to convey To the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1780.161,"endTime":1783.361,"body":"business, what the developers"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1780.161,"endTime":1783.361,"body":"are feeling and why it impacts"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1783.361,"endTime":1785.381,"body":"what the business wants to do."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1785.601,"endTime":1787.496,"body":"I I love the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1785.601,"endTime":1787.496,"body":"analogy of, You know, think"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1787.496,"endTime":1790.636,"body":"of software engineering like"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1787.496,"endTime":1790.636,"body":"any other kind of engineering."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1791.016,"endTime":1793.496,"body":"If you were gonna go build a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1791.016,"endTime":1793.496,"body":"bridge, how many rivets does it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1793.496,"endTime":1794.841,"body":"take to put together a bridge?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1794.921,"endTime":1797.501,"body":"And you're gonna hire a team"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1794.921,"endTime":1797.501,"body":"and their rivet gun breaks."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1797.881,"endTime":1798.041,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1798.041,"endTime":1798.841,"body":"Are you gonna say, okay."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1798.841,"endTime":1800.221,"body":"Well, just use use a hammer."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1800.601,"endTime":1800.921,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1800.921,"endTime":1804.621,"body":"Like, uh, you know, just be okay"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1800.921,"endTime":1804.621,"body":"with being thirty times slower."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1804.916,"endTime":1805.076,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1805.076,"endTime":1806.036,"body":"You're gonna say, okay."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1806.036,"endTime":1807.636,"body":"Go to the store and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1806.036,"endTime":1807.636,"body":"get a new rivet gun."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1807.636,"endTime":1807.796,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1807.796,"endTime":1809.556,"body":"And that means you're not"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1807.796,"endTime":1809.556,"body":"hammering rivets for an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1809.556,"endTime":1810.936,"body":"hourwhile you're at Home Depot."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1810.996,"endTime":1812.981,"body":"When you come back, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1810.996,"endTime":1812.981,"body":"could be productive again."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1812.981,"endTime":1813.221,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1813.221,"endTime":1814.581,"body":"Like, that's an"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1813.221,"endTime":1814.581,"body":"obvious decision."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1814.581,"endTime":1816.341,"body":"It should be the same thing"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1814.581,"endTime":1816.341,"body":"in software engineering."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1816.341,"endTime":1818.821,"body":"If my tool doesn't work,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1816.341,"endTime":1818.821,"body":"right, why would I keep"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1818.821,"endTime":1820.281,"body":"moving with broken tools?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1820.506,"endTime":1820.746,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1820.746,"endTime":1820.906,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1820.906,"endTime":1821.466,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1821.466,"endTime":1822.506,"body":"You you go to Home Depot."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1822.506,"endTime":1823.386,"body":"You get a new tool."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1823.386,"endTime":1825.886,"body":"You fix the tool,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1823.386,"endTime":1825.886,"body":"whatever, so you can resume"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1826.026,"endTime":1827.326,"body":"actual productive work."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1827.946,"endTime":1828.266,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1828.266,"endTime":1829.546,"body":"Very, very important."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1829.546,"endTime":1832.526,"body":"Something near and dear to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1829.546,"endTime":1832.526,"body":"our hearts at at LinearB,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1832.586,"endTime":1835.086,"body":"so I'm really happy you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1832.586,"endTime":1835.086,"body":"included that type of stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1835.92,"endTime":1839.52,"body":"So if I keep us moving so"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1835.92,"endTime":1839.52,"body":"that was the second that's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1839.52,"endTime":1841.905,"body":"an example of something"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1839.52,"endTime":1841.905,"body":"in the second section."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1841.985,"endTime":1844.065,"body":"Now the third section,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1841.985,"endTime":1844.065,"body":"it's more even more"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1844.065,"endTime":1844.545,"body":"technical."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1844.545,"endTime":1845.045,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1845.265,"endTime":1845.505,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1845.505,"endTime":1845.905,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1845.905,"endTime":1848.385,"body":"It's just covering actual"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1845.905,"endTime":1848.385,"body":"technologies, actual, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1848.385,"endTime":1849.845,"body":"know, concepts, best practices."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1850.511,"endTime":1853.151,"body":"Favorite, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1850.511,"endTime":1853.151,"body":"know, concept or something"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1853.151,"endTime":1855.471,"body":"that you think would be"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1853.151,"endTime":1855.471,"body":"really insightful for the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1855.471,"endTime":1856.931,"body":"audience in the third section?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1857.587,"endTime":1859.747,"body":"I think one"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1857.587,"endTime":1859.747,"body":"of the opening sentences in"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1859.747,"endTime":1864.796,"body":"the third section is about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1859.747,"endTime":1864.796,"body":"making Decisions on technology"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1865.096,"endTime":1869.621,"body":"in a in an unemotional,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1865.096,"endTime":1869.621,"body":"pragmatic perspective."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1870.481,"endTime":1870.881,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1870.881,"endTime":1874.581,"body":"I I think leaders, engineers,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1870.881,"endTime":1874.581,"body":"everybody has their preferred"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1874.721,"endTime":1877.966,"body":"technology, and we often use"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1874.721,"endTime":1877.966,"body":"words like, I like This language"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1878.266,"endTime":1881.546,"body":"or I don't like this language"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1878.266,"endTime":1881.546,"body":"or this framework sucks."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1881.546,"endTime":1881.786,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1881.786,"endTime":1884.846,"body":"Like, this is the nature of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1881.786,"endTime":1884.846,"body":"our conversation socially."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1885.501,"endTime":1888.541,"body":"But I think, professionally,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1885.501,"endTime":1888.541,"body":"when you're actually in the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1888.541,"endTime":1893.576,"body":"hot seat deciding between"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1888.541,"endTime":1893.576,"body":"Angular or and React or, You"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1893.576,"endTime":1896.256,"body":"know, React Query and Apollo"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1893.576,"endTime":1896.256,"body":"client or a Go back end or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1896.256,"endTime":1897.576,"body":"a Rust back end or whatever."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1897.576,"endTime":1897.976,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1897.976,"endTime":1902.351,"body":"When you're in the hot seat,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1897.976,"endTime":1902.351,"body":"that's not the time for social"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1902.571,"endTime":1905.071,"body":"editorial of technology choices."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1905.531,"endTime":1905.691,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1905.691,"endTime":1910.705,"body":"Like, as a leader, your role"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1905.691,"endTime":1910.705,"body":"is to, in a pragmatic way,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1910.705,"endTime":1915.205,"body":"evaluate the trade offs and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1910.705,"endTime":1915.205,"body":"understand that regardless"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1915.265,"endTime":1918.29,"body":"of of your personal opinions"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1915.265,"endTime":1918.29,"body":"or your team's opinions, What"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1918.29,"endTime":1920.95,"body":"you're looking at now is what's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1918.29,"endTime":1920.95,"body":"the best fit for my business."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1921.41,"endTime":1921.731,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1921.731,"endTime":1924.13,"body":"What's going to give us"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1921.731,"endTime":1924.13,"body":"the best performance or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1924.13,"endTime":1927.19,"body":"the most reliability or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1924.13,"endTime":1927.19,"body":"the fastest time to market?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1927.765,"endTime":1928.805,"body":"What's both supported?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1928.805,"endTime":1929.945,"body":"What has the best documentation?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1930.085,"endTime":1932.485,"body":"You know, you decide what"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1930.085,"endTime":1932.485,"body":"actually matters for your"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1932.485,"endTime":1935.845,"body":"business and then have that,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1932.485,"endTime":1935.845,"body":"you know, that that clear"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1935.845,"endTime":1940.241,"body":"eyed view of let's go and and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1935.845,"endTime":1940.241,"body":"and make the right decision"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1940.241,"endTime":1942.741,"body":"for the company, even if"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1940.241,"endTime":1942.741,"body":"it's not my favorite tool."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1943.041,"endTime":1943.281,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1943.281,"endTime":1943.921,"body":"And I think Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1944.081,"endTime":1945.6,"body":"Separating those two"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1944.081,"endTime":1945.6,"body":"things, it's totally"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1945.6,"endTime":1946.66,"body":"okay to have preferences."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1946.945,"endTime":1949.745,"body":"But when it comes time to the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1946.945,"endTime":1949.745,"body":"business, that's where you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1949.745,"endTime":1952.742,"body":"really have to optimize and then"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1949.745,"endTime":1952.742,"body":"taking that emotion out of it."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1952.742,"endTime":1955.322,"body":"And especially as a leader,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1952.742,"endTime":1955.322,"body":"if you enter the conversation"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1955.797,"endTime":1958.617,"body":"and you put your foot down and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1955.797,"endTime":1958.617,"body":"say, you know, I hate React."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1959.317,"endTime":1959.717,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1959.717,"endTime":1961.257,"body":"Like, it's gonna change"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1959.717,"endTime":1961.257,"body":"the whole conversation."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1961.747,"endTime":1963.651,"body":"Um, and I'm not I'm not"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1961.747,"endTime":1963.651,"body":"meaning to pick on React."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1963.651,"endTime":1964.771,"body":"We use I use React all the time."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1964.771,"endTime":1967.006,"body":"React's here I am again,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1964.771,"endTime":1967.006,"body":"passing judgments."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1967.576,"endTime":1971.096,"body":"but, you know, the point is for"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1967.576,"endTime":1971.096,"body":"your business, right, do you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1971.096,"endTime":1972.831,"body":"need this kind of performance."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1972.831,"endTime":1973.871,"body":"Would you need this"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1972.831,"endTime":1973.871,"body":"kind of framework?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1973.871,"endTime":1974.991,"body":"Or, you know, who supports it?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1974.991,"endTime":1976.111,"body":"What companies are"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1974.991,"endTime":1976.111,"body":"buying these things?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1976.111,"endTime":1978.591,"body":"Are they gonna are they still"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1976.111,"endTime":1978.591,"body":"gonna be here in five years"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1978.591,"endTime":1980.671,"body":"is often an important question"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1978.591,"endTime":1980.671,"body":"that I don't think gets"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":1980.671,"endTime":1982.016,"body":"asked enough at start ups."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1982.727,"endTime":1984.567,"body":"I gotta back you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1982.727,"endTime":1984.567,"body":"on that because I've I've"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1984.567,"endTime":1987.467,"body":"seen it a few especially with,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1984.567,"endTime":1987.467,"body":"like, really early startups,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1988.212,"endTime":1989.912,"body":"Like, series a or earlier?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1990.292,"endTime":1993.492,"body":"You know, you get a job and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1990.292,"endTime":1993.492,"body":"you whatever the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1993.492,"endTime":1996.627,"body":"tech stack is, you try to ask"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1993.492,"endTime":1996.627,"body":"Question of, like, why hey."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1996.627,"endTime":1998.167,"body":"Why did we, like, choose this?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1998.787,"endTime":2001.267,"body":"Oftentimes, the answer is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1998.787,"endTime":2001.267,"body":"just, like, oh, that's what,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2001.267,"endTime":2004.412,"body":"like, the leader liked As"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2001.267,"endTime":2004.412,"body":"opposed to, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2004.412,"endTime":2007.852,"body":"how we feel it will impact"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2004.412,"endTime":2007.852,"body":"the business for what we're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2007.852,"endTime":2010.412,"body":"trying to build, where we are"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2007.852,"endTime":2010.412,"body":"in the mark like, I've never"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2010.412,"endTime":2011.532,"body":"gotten that answer before."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2011.532,"endTime":2012.797,"body":"I was always just like, Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2012.797,"endTime":2013.777,"body":"That's what they liked."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2013.997,"endTime":2014.477,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2014.477,"endTime":2014.797,"body":"Or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2014.797,"endTime":2016.418,"body":"or the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2014.797,"endTime":2016.418,"body":"timelines are feels weird."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2016.717,"endTime":2018.878,"body":"We we chose this technology"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2016.717,"endTime":2018.878,"body":"because it will scale"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2018.878,"endTime":2020.017,"body":"to a billion users."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2020.077,"endTime":2021.942,"body":"Meanwhile, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2020.077,"endTime":2021.942,"body":"product market fit yet."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2022.262,"endTime":2022.582,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2022.582,"endTime":2026.102,"body":"Like, you you know, the it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2022.582,"endTime":2026.102,"body":"all has to line up so that it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2026.102,"endTime":2029.322,"body":"actually makes sense for what"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2026.102,"endTime":2029.322,"body":"the business needs right now."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2029.885,"endTime":2032.125,"body":"and that and I don't I"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2029.885,"endTime":2032.125,"body":"don't wanna discount the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2032.125,"endTime":2035.005,"body":"team having experience with"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2032.125,"endTime":2035.005,"body":"a particular set of tools"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2035.005,"endTime":2036.125,"body":"or frameworks or whatever."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2036.125,"endTime":2036.365,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2036.365,"endTime":2039.87,"body":"That is One of the components"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2036.365,"endTime":2039.87,"body":"which will lead to how quickly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2039.87,"endTime":2042.19,"body":"can we get to market, what's the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2039.87,"endTime":2042.19,"body":"quality gonna be in the early"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2042.19,"endTime":2045.33,"body":"iterations, uh, but it certainly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2042.19,"endTime":2045.33,"body":"shouldn't be the only component."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2045.805,"endTime":2048.305,"body":"Well, it's a I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2045.805,"endTime":2048.305,"body":"mean, like, hiring matters too."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2048.365,"endTime":2050.525,"body":"I mean, when you're early"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2048.365,"endTime":2050.525,"body":"on, you're trying to hire"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2050.525,"endTime":2052.365,"body":"great people, but you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2050.525,"endTime":2052.365,"body":"also trying to hire quick,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2052.365,"endTime":2053.405,"body":"get something up and going."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2053.405,"endTime":2055.95,"body":"If you're gonna pick something"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2053.405,"endTime":2055.95,"body":"more obscure, It's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2055.95,"endTime":2059.55,"body":"harder to find people that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2055.95,"endTime":2059.55,"body":"are, like, you know, you wanna"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2059.55,"endTime":2062.91,"body":"hire in, uh, languages and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2059.55,"endTime":2062.91,"body":"tech where there's a community,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2062.91,"endTime":2065.145,"body":"where there's passion,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2062.91,"endTime":2065.145,"body":"whether you're gonna get some"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2065.145,"endTime":2066.665,"body":"exciting people that match."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2066.665,"endTime":2067.165,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2067.625,"endTime":2068.125,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2068.185,"endTime":2070.665,"body":"If you're a startup right"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2068.185,"endTime":2070.665,"body":"now writing code in Haskell,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2070.665,"endTime":2073.53,"body":"like, You've made your life"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2070.665,"endTime":2073.53,"body":"a little harder when it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2073.53,"endTime":2075.79,"body":"comes to maybe a lot harder"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2073.53,"endTime":2075.79,"body":"when it comes to hiring."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2075.93,"endTime":2076.09,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2076.09,"endTime":2077.69,"body":"Let let alone any of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2076.09,"endTime":2077.69,"body":"the pros and cons of the"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2077.69,"endTime":2079.37,"body":"programming language, but"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2077.69,"endTime":2079.37,"body":"that that's something you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2079.37,"endTime":2080.41,"body":"should take into account."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2080.41,"endTime":2080.91,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2082.335,"endTime":2083.775,"body":"This is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2082.335,"endTime":2083.775,"body":"awesome stuff, man."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2083.775,"endTime":2086.895,"body":"I I'm, like, super excited"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2083.775,"endTime":2086.895,"body":"for you and this book,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2086.895,"endTime":2088.495,"body":"and it just seems awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2088.495,"endTime":2091.09,"body":"Let's move a bit into"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2088.495,"endTime":2091.09,"body":"any of the, like, the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2091.17,"endTime":2094.39,"body":"Feedback, the community"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2091.17,"endTime":2094.39,"body":"engagement, the future plans."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2094.53,"endTime":2096.77,"body":"So you mentioned, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2094.53,"endTime":2096.77,"body":"you had you have the GitHub"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2096.77,"endTime":2098.47,"body":"repo for direct engagement."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2098.815,"endTime":2099.615,"body":"But, like yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2099.615,"endTime":2102.995,"body":"What have you heard from"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2099.615,"endTime":2102.995,"body":"the community so far, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2103.215,"endTime":2104.355,"body":"what's going on there?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2104.815,"endTime":2105.135,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2105.135,"endTime":2108.64,"body":"I think, Uh, first of all,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2105.135,"endTime":2108.64,"body":"it's been I'm very humbled."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2108.64,"endTime":2109.04,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2109.04,"endTime":2111.68,"body":"When I launched the book on"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2109.04,"endTime":2111.68,"body":"a Friday and the Saturday"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2111.68,"endTime":2114.16,"body":"afternoon, it was the number"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2111.68,"endTime":2114.16,"body":"one, number two on Hacker"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2114.16,"endTime":2116.295,"body":"News, uh, for Saturday evening."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2116.435,"endTime":2119.155,"body":"Uh, and so I think there"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2116.435,"endTime":2119.155,"body":"there clearly is, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2119.155,"endTime":2122.375,"body":"know, an appetite for"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2119.155,"endTime":2122.375,"body":"this idea of a resource."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2122.79,"endTime":2125.43,"body":"And I I think that's what's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2122.79,"endTime":2125.43,"body":"been most successful about"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2125.43,"endTime":2128.07,"body":"it is it is you know, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2125.43,"endTime":2128.07,"body":"could read the book cover"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2128.07,"endTime":2130.63,"body":"to cover, and that would"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2128.07,"endTime":2130.63,"body":"hopefully be valuable to you."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2130.63,"endTime":2133.245,"body":"But I think that's not"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2130.63,"endTime":2133.245,"body":"the majority use Case."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2133.245,"endTime":2133.565,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2133.565,"endTime":2136.205,"body":"The idea is you pick it"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2133.565,"endTime":2136.205,"body":"up, you skim the table of"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2136.205,"endTime":2138.925,"body":"contents, maybe you read a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2136.205,"endTime":2138.925,"body":"couple chapters here and there."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2138.925,"endTime":2141.165,"body":"And then in the back of your"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2138.925,"endTime":2141.165,"body":"mind, I have this handbook."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2141.165,"endTime":2141.325,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2141.325,"endTime":2144.09,"body":"And so You come back to that"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2141.325,"endTime":2144.09,"body":"table of contents a couple weeks"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2144.09,"endTime":2147.21,"body":"later, and there's another page"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2144.09,"endTime":2147.21,"body":"or two that will, you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2147.21,"endTime":2149.87,"body":"help give you perspective on"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2147.21,"endTime":2149.87,"body":"whatever the next problem is."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2150.09,"endTime":2154.155,"body":"Uh, and I think that's really"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2150.09,"endTime":2154.155,"body":"Where it is, I you know, I"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2154.155,"endTime":2156.815,"body":"I don't think every page and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2154.155,"endTime":2156.815,"body":"every chapter is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2156.875,"endTime":2158.335,"body":"helpful to every engineer."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2158.555,"endTime":2160.61,"body":"Because like I was saying, you"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2158.555,"endTime":2160.61,"body":"know, especially that third"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2160.75,"endTime":2162.03,"body":"section about hard technology."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2162.03,"endTime":2164.51,"body":"Like, a lot of senior"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2162.03,"endTime":2164.51,"body":"folks will know that stuff"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2164.51,"endTime":2165.49,"body":"already, and that's cool."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2165.63,"endTime":2165.87,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2165.87,"endTime":2169.255,"body":"But, hopefully, they can find"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2165.87,"endTime":2169.255,"body":"value in effective on hiring,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2169.255,"endTime":2171.605,"body":"perspective on budgeting,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2169.255,"endTime":2171.605,"body":"perspective on different ways"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2171.605,"endTime":2173.685,"body":"to think about tech debt,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2171.605,"endTime":2173.685,"body":"you know, so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2173.685,"endTime":2176.75,"body":"So I think that's really been"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2173.685,"endTime":2176.75,"body":"The key thing, and that that's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2176.75,"endTime":2178.13,"body":"what I was hoping for as well."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2178.18,"endTime":2179.14,"body":"that that's what the goal was."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2179.14,"endTime":2180.74,"body":"You know, I I really"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2179.14,"endTime":2180.74,"body":"did lean into it."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2180.74,"endTime":2181.54,"body":"It is a handbook."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2181.54,"endTime":2182.76,"body":"It is not a novel."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2183.395,"endTime":2184.195,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2184.232,"endTime":2185.112,"body":"what's coming next?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2185.112,"endTime":2187.319,"body":"I talk to us about"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2185.112,"endTime":2187.319,"body":"the future plan too."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2187.619,"endTime":2187.939,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2187.939,"endTime":2188.439,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2188.509,"endTime":2191.389,"body":"as my friends well know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2188.509,"endTime":2191.389,"body":"uh, I haven't read a book"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2191.389,"endTime":2193.934,"body":"on paper myself since"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2191.389,"endTime":2193.934,"body":"high school, probably."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2194.104,"endTime":2195.897,"body":"Um, a huge fan of audiobooks."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2195.957,"endTime":2196.597,"body":"You know, listen."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2196.597,"endTime":2197.957,"body":"I've got my headphones"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2196.597,"endTime":2197.957,"body":"in listening to"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2197.957,"endTime":2199.177,"body":"audiobooks all the time."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2199.317,"endTime":2201.542,"body":"Uh, and so I you know,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2199.317,"endTime":2201.542,"body":"I've I've been made fun of."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2201.542,"endTime":2202.742,"body":"Zach, you published a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2201.542,"endTime":2202.742,"body":"book, and you didn't"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2202.742,"endTime":2203.462,"body":"publish the audiobook."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2203.462,"endTime":2203.942,"body":"It's like, okay."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2203.942,"endTime":2204.262,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2204.262,"endTime":2205.162,"body":"It's it's coming."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2205.412,"endTime":2209.087,"body":"as it turns out, recording"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2205.412,"endTime":2209.087,"body":"an audiobook is, uh, is It"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2209.087,"endTime":2212.387,"body":"takes time and effort and is"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2209.087,"endTime":2212.387,"body":"a skill and is has challenges."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2213.037,"endTime":2215.677,"body":"I'm personally finding"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2213.037,"endTime":2215.677,"body":"recording the audiobook actually"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2215.677,"endTime":2216.832,"body":"harder than writing the book."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2217.312,"endTime":2219.312,"body":"Uh, so you read a chapter,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2217.312,"endTime":2219.312,"body":"then you listen to it back"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2219.312,"endTime":2221.632,"body":"and go, that's terrible,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2219.312,"endTime":2221.632,"body":"and delete the three minutes"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2221.632,"endTime":2222.432,"body":"of recording you're doing."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2222.432,"endTime":2223.152,"body":"We have yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2223.152,"endTime":2225.297,"body":"I, like, do the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2223.152,"endTime":2225.297,"body":"audio part of This by now,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2225.297,"endTime":2227.777,"body":"are you are you physically"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2225.297,"endTime":2227.777,"body":"doing the voicing for it?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2227.777,"endTime":2229.457,"body":"I am physically"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2227.777,"endTime":2229.457,"body":"doing the voicing for it."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2229.457,"endTime":2232.177,"body":"I think there's something"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2229.457,"endTime":2232.177,"body":"you know, just like there's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2232.177,"endTime":2234.177,"body":"something special about it being"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2232.177,"endTime":2234.177,"body":"on paper, there's something"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2234.177,"endTime":2236.642,"body":"special The author being"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2234.177,"endTime":2236.642,"body":"the narrator for certainly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2236.642,"endTime":2238.322,"body":"for the style of book."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2238.322,"endTime":2238.822,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2239.122,"endTime":2241.717,"body":"that said, you know, Five years"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2239.122,"endTime":2241.717,"body":"from now, if I publish a a"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2241.717,"endTime":2245.017,"body":"second edition or if there's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2241.717,"endTime":2245.017,"body":"another book, uh, will will"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2245.077,"endTime":2248.677,"body":"an AI Zach, who has perfect"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2245.077,"endTime":2248.677,"body":"intonation and never needs"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2248.677,"endTime":2251.752,"body":"a drink of water, Be the one"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2248.677,"endTime":2251.752,"body":"to do the recording, perhaps."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2252.299,"endTime":2254.559,"body":"AI Zach is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2252.299,"endTime":2254.559,"body":"the only person I trust"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2254.859,"endTime":2255.739,"body":"that I wanna listen to."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2255.739,"endTime":2257.714,"body":"I would trust"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2255.739,"endTime":2257.714,"body":"AI Zach over myself as well."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2257.794,"endTime":2259.174,"body":"You know me very well, Dan."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2259.714,"endTime":2260.034,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2260.034,"endTime":2262.214,"body":"So you got you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2260.034,"endTime":2262.214,"body":"got the audiobook."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2262.274,"endTime":2264.454,"body":"Do we have an a date"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2262.274,"endTime":2264.454,"body":"for the audiobook?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2265.362,"endTime":2265.762,"body":"Uh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2265.762,"endTime":2268.342,"body":"gonna take a page"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2265.762,"endTime":2268.342,"body":"out of my own recommendations"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2268.402,"endTime":2270.962,"body":"from my own audiobook, and"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2268.402,"endTime":2270.962,"body":"I'm gonna give you an accurate"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2270.962,"endTime":2272.082,"body":"answer that's not precise."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2272.082,"endTime":2272.867,"body":"You ready for it?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2273.427,"endTime":2276.007,"body":"Q one twenty twenty four."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2276.227,"endTime":2276.727,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2276.867,"endTime":2277.367,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2278.067,"endTime":2278.567,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2278.867,"endTime":2281.047,"body":"So we"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2278.867,"endTime":2281.047,"body":"have that coming."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2281.415,"endTime":2283.895,"body":"It's been amazing having"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2281.415,"endTime":2283.895,"body":"you on the pod, man."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2283.895,"endTime":2286.615,"body":"You know, both of the episodes"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2283.895,"endTime":2286.615,"body":"have been I know this is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2286.615,"endTime":2287.995,"body":"gonna be a killer episode."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2288.59,"endTime":2289.951,"body":"The other one was amazing too."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2289.951,"endTime":2292.43,"body":"I think we actually might"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2289.951,"endTime":2292.43,"body":"have gotten your list of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2292.43,"endTime":2293.87,"body":"audiobooks on the last one."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2293.87,"endTime":2297.425,"body":"If we if we didn't, We'll"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2293.87,"endTime":2297.425,"body":"post that again because"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2297.425,"endTime":2300.165,"body":"there's some great reads"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2297.425,"endTime":2300.165,"body":"as well as, uh, your book."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2300.595,"endTime":2304.195,"body":"you're also doing the executive"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2300.595,"endTime":2304.195,"body":"coaching, which we touched"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2304.195,"endTime":2309.124,"body":"on A little so two things as"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2304.195,"endTime":2309.124,"body":"we're kind of exiting this pod."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2309.264,"endTime":2312.244,"body":"If I want to get in touch"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2309.264,"endTime":2312.244,"body":"with you about executive"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2312.624,"endTime":2316.309,"body":"coaching, How can I do"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2312.624,"endTime":2316.309,"body":"so, and what can I expect?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2317.089,"endTime":2320.289,"body":"And two, just the bay the second"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2317.089,"endTime":2320.289,"body":"will be just, like, the basics"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2320.289,"endTime":2321.908,"body":"of where can I go buy your book?"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2322.164,"endTime":2322.824,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2322.914,"endTime":2324.994,"body":"if you wanna get in touch"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2322.914,"endTime":2324.994,"body":"with me, uh, you could"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2324.994,"endTime":2326.594,"body":"find me at c t o h b."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2326.594,"endTime":2329.014,"body":"That's short for CTO"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2326.594,"endTime":2329.014,"body":"handbook dot com or"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2329.109,"endTime":2330.229,"body":"zach goldberg dot com."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2330.229,"endTime":2331.428,"body":"That's that's my"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2330.229,"endTime":2331.428,"body":"personal website."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2331.428,"endTime":2332.569,"body":"They go to the same place."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2332.789,"endTime":2334.629,"body":"if you wanna get in touch"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2332.789,"endTime":2334.629,"body":"with me for coaching, feel"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2334.629,"endTime":2335.589,"body":"free to send me an email."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2335.589,"endTime":2337.589,"body":"There's a, uh, a link"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2335.589,"endTime":2337.589,"body":"on my LinkedIn profile,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2337.589,"endTime":2340.464,"body":"actually, just to directly"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2337.589,"endTime":2340.464,"body":"schedule, uh, an intro if"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2340.464,"endTime":2341.603,"body":"that's interesting to you."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2341.744,"endTime":2344.624,"body":"And, uh, the book, of course,"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2341.744,"endTime":2344.624,"body":"you can Google CTO handbook."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2344.624,"endTime":2345.764,"body":"Uh, it's on Amazon."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2346.279,"endTime":2347.479,"body":"Uh, CTO handbook as well."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2347.479,"endTime":2348.699,"body":"You can find it on Goodreads."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2349.159,"endTime":2353.019,"body":"And, uh, I think perhaps most"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2349.159,"endTime":2353.019,"body":"unusually, it's on GitHub."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2353.244,"endTime":2356.124,"body":"And so it's, uh, github"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2353.244,"endTime":2356.124,"body":"dot com slash Zach Goldberg"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2356.124,"endTime":2357.823,"body":"slash startup c t o handbook."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2358.444,"endTime":2360.384,"body":"A bit of searching"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2358.444,"endTime":2360.384,"body":"will find it for you."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2360.384,"endTime":2361.104,"body":"And, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2361.104,"endTime":2362.724,"body":"Hope, uh, hope it's"},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2361.104,"endTime":2362.724,"body":"helpful for you."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2363.3,"endTime":2363.699,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2363.699,"endTime":2365.859,"body":"So everyone listening,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2363.699,"endTime":2365.859,"body":"let's support Zach."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2365.859,"endTime":2368.495,"body":"Of course, you can go"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2365.859,"endTime":2368.495,"body":"to GitHub, get it for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2368.495,"endTime":2370.073,"body":"free, but let's  book."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2370.073,"endTime":2371.825,"body":"Um, thank you everyone"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2370.073,"endTime":2371.825,"body":"for listening."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2371.825,"endTime":2375.771,"body":"If you do want to get in touch"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2371.825,"endTime":2375.771,"body":"with Zach, We'll put all of his"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2375.771,"endTime":2379.211,"body":"details and including the links"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2375.771,"endTime":2379.211,"body":"to hit them up for some of that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2379.211,"endTime":2380.751,"body":"technical executive coaching."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2381.254,"endTime":2384.459,"body":"thank you so much, Zach, for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2381.254,"endTime":2384.459,"body":"giving, You know, back to the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2384.459,"endTime":2387.259,"body":"community,  this book that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2384.459,"endTime":2387.259,"body":"you're making and these types of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2387.259,"endTime":2390.879,"body":"books are super valuable for our"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2387.259,"endTime":2390.879,"body":"audience, leaders everywhere."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2391.424,"endTime":2393.844,"body":"And thanks again, man,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":2391.424,"endTime":2393.844,"body":"for coming on the pod."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2394.064,"endTime":2394.304,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2394.304,"endTime":2394.784,"body":"Thank you, Dan."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2394.784,"endTime":2395.744,"body":"It's been an absolute pleasure."},{"speaker":"Zach Goldberg","startTime":2395.744,"endTime":2396.564,"body":"You're the best."}]}