{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":0.05,"endTime":1.69,"body":"product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":0.05,"endTime":1.69,"body":"development is so much fun."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1.93,"endTime":5.4,"body":"and I think it makes Like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1.93,"endTime":5.4,"body":"every engineer better to have"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":5.4,"endTime":8.29,"body":"an opportunity to work on a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":5.4,"endTime":8.29,"body":"product team or to think of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":8.29,"endTime":9.63,"body":"themselves as building products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":9.79,"endTime":11.84,"body":"I talked to a lot to our"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":9.79,"endTime":11.84,"body":"infrastructure team too,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":12.07,"endTime":14.06,"body":"that like the reason our"},{"speaker":"Adam 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and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":52.08,"endTime":55.2,"body":"forecast more accurately."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":55.86,"endTime":58.98,"body":"Whether you're looking to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":55.86,"endTime":58.98,"body":"adopt a new STI platform or"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":58.98,"endTime":61.05,"body":"just want to enhance your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":58.98,"endTime":61.05,"body":"current data practices."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":61.32,"endTime":63.96,"body":"This guide covers everything"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":61.32,"endTime":63.96,"body":"you need from evaluating"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":63.96,"endTime":66.51,"body":"platform capabilities to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":63.96,"endTime":66.51,"body":"implementing solutions that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":66.51,"endTime":67.59,"body":"drive continuous improvement."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":67.738,"endTime":70.348,"body":"Head to the show notes to get"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":67.738,"endTime":70.348,"body":"your free copy of the essential"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":70.348,"endTime":73.198,"body":"guide to software engineering"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":70.348,"endTime":73.198,"body":"intelligence platform is today."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":73.558,"endTime":76.348,"body":"And take the first steps towards"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":73.558,"endTime":76.348,"body":"smarter data-driven engineering."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":77.328,"endTime":79.268,"body":"Everyone,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":77.328,"endTime":79.268,"body":"we're back on Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":79.548,"endTime":81.598,"body":"I'm your co host, Conor"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":79.548,"endTime":81.598,"body":"Bronsdon, and today I'm"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":81.598,"endTime":82.808,"body":"joined by Adam Berman."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":83.008,"endTime":86.138,"body":"He is the director of product"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":83.008,"endTime":86.138,"body":"engineering at Semgrep."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":86.198,"endTime":87.248,"body":"Adam, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":87.348,"endTime":88.088,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":87.348,"endTime":88.088,"body":"great to be here."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":88.088,"endTime":88.708,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":88.938,"endTime":90.288,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":88.938,"endTime":90.288,"body":"obviously great to have"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":90.288,"endTime":92.308,"body":"you on the show because we"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":90.288,"endTime":92.308,"body":"have a producer named Adam."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":92.308,"endTime":94.498,"body":"So, you know, like clearly"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":92.308,"endTime":94.498,"body":"there's some synergy happening"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":94.498,"endTime":96.943,"body":"here, but So, I think the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":94.498,"endTime":96.943,"body":"real reason we're bringing"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":96.943,"endTime":99.623,"body":"you on is that over the last"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":96.943,"endTime":99.623,"body":"18 months, you've had the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":99.623,"endTime":102.203,"body":"opportunity to build the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":99.623,"endTime":102.203,"body":"second product line at Semgrep."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":102.203,"endTime":104.153,"body":"And this is a unique"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":102.203,"endTime":104.153,"body":"opportunity that happens"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":104.153,"endTime":105.993,"body":"at a lot of startups, a lot"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":104.153,"endTime":105.993,"body":"of new organizations where"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":105.993,"endTime":107.573,"body":"they're saying, hey, we're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":105.993,"endTime":107.573,"body":"going to start this new line."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":107.823,"endTime":110.113,"body":"And throughout that process,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":107.823,"endTime":110.113,"body":"you had to decide the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":110.113,"endTime":112.933,"body":"shape of how the product"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":110.113,"endTime":112.933,"body":"development organization"},{"speaker":"Conor 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along."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":127.773,"endTime":130.223,"body":"They're like, oh, I've built,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":127.773,"endTime":130.223,"body":"you know, six product lines now."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":130.233,"endTime":131.843,"body":"I've done this thing,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":130.233,"endTime":131.843,"body":"or I came into an"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":131.843,"endTime":132.643,"body":"established organization."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":132.653,"endTime":134.103,"body":"Or we talk to leaders"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":132.653,"endTime":134.103,"body":"who are just starting,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":134.113,"endTime":136.218,"body":"who are saying, Now we're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":134.113,"endTime":136.218,"body":"doing this first product."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":136.558,"endTime":138.548,"body":"So you're at this"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":136.558,"endTime":138.548,"body":"interesting transition point."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":139.238,"endTime":140.028,"body":"Let's start there."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":140.058,"endTime":140.408,"body":"what's the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":140.408,"endTime":142.908,"body":"process you took to build"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":140.408,"endTime":142.908,"body":"and launch this new product?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":143.158,"endTime":143.358,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":143.358,"endTime":146.508,"body":"When a company goes from a one"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":143.358,"endTime":146.508,"body":"product company to a two product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":146.518,"endTime":149.598,"body":"company, it's this like huge"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":146.518,"endTime":149.598,"body":"change in what the organization"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":149.608,"endTime":150.718,"body":"has to be responsible for."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":150.858,"endTime":154.258,"body":"When there's one product,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":150.858,"endTime":154.258,"body":"every engineer at the company"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":154.268,"endTime":157.578,"body":"is like singularly focused"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":154.268,"endTime":157.578,"body":"on the one product, on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":157.578,"endTime":158.748,"body":"one mission, on the one goal."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":159.073,"endTime":162.143,"body":"As soon as you move to a two"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":159.073,"endTime":162.143,"body":"product organization, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":162.143,"endTime":164.573,"body":"start to see the organization"},{"speaker":"Adam 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how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":177.518,"endTime":179.838,"body":"can we make sure that there's,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":177.518,"endTime":179.838,"body":"like, singular ownership,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":180.018,"endTime":182.878,"body":"uh, make sure that there's,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":180.018,"endTime":182.878,"body":"like, really core direction"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":182.888,"endTime":185.918,"body":"for each of the Uh, and then"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":182.888,"endTime":185.918,"body":"eventually you start having"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":185.918,"endTime":187.448,"body":"to start to think about like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":185.918,"endTime":187.448,"body":"okay, how do we make sure these"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":187.448,"endTime":190.378,"body":"products aren't too siloed"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":187.448,"endTime":190.378,"body":"as we start to keep focus?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":190.578,"endTime":192.708,"body":"You know, you're trying to like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":190.578,"endTime":192.708,"body":"do this thing really scrappy"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":192.708,"endTime":195.258,"body":"at the beginning and then think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":192.708,"endTime":195.258,"body":"long term about the, if this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":195.258,"endTime":197.498,"body":"takes off, what does this look"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":195.258,"endTime":197.498,"body":"like when it's successful?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":197.508,"endTime":199.098,"body":"How do we make sure that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":197.508,"endTime":199.098,"body":"like, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":199.098,"endTime":201.538,"body":"end up with some product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":199.098,"endTime":201.538,"body":"that's totally different, has"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":201.538,"endTime":202.278,"body":"totally different primitives."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":202.718,"endTime":204.518,"body":"We don't want a totally"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":202.718,"endTime":204.518,"body":"different sales and marketing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":204.518,"endTime":206.478,"body":"organization for a second"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":204.518,"endTime":206.478,"body":"product because it's so"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":206.478,"endTime":207.428,"body":"different from the first."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":207.873,"endTime":208.203,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":208.533,"endTime":209.943,"body":"that brings up a few"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":208.533,"endTime":209.943,"body":"interesting questions."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":210.013,"endTime":212.973,"body":"The second product line, is it"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":210.013,"endTime":212.973,"body":"the same ideal customer profile?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":212.973,"endTime":214.533,"body":"Is it a related"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":212.973,"endTime":214.533,"body":"customer profile?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":214.543,"endTime":215.473,"body":"How have you approached that?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":215.603,"endTime":215.813,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":215.813,"endTime":218.613,"body":"And I talked to a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":215.813,"endTime":218.613,"body":"engineering leaders as we were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":218.613,"endTime":221.293,"body":"starting to build the second"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":218.613,"endTime":221.293,"body":"product, uh, to think through"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":221.293,"endTime":223.693,"body":"like, Hey, how do you decide"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":221.293,"endTime":223.693,"body":"what do you decide to split"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":223.693,"endTime":227.093,"body":"out into, uh, something that is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":223.693,"endTime":227.093,"body":"really like cross functional and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":227.103,"endTime":229.843,"body":"singularly focused, where do you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":227.103,"endTime":229.843,"body":"draw like the platform approach?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":229.843,"endTime":231.003,"body":"So the ideal."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":232.248,"endTime":234.018,"body":"We're still, we're a security"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":232.248,"endTime":234.018,"body":"company, we're focused on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":234.018,"endTime":235.988,"body":"static analysis, uh, of code."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":236.188,"endTime":238.488,"body":"So, we're trying to take"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":236.188,"endTime":238.488,"body":"static analysis and apply"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":238.488,"endTime":239.418,"body":"it to a second domain."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":239.418,"endTime":242.248,"body":"So, our initial product,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":239.418,"endTime":242.248,"body":"uh, looks at the security of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":242.248,"endTime":243.968,"body":"your first party code, the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":242.248,"endTime":243.968,"body":"code that your developers"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":243.988,"endTime":244.948,"body":"are writing themselves."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":245.218,"endTime":248.588,"body":"This second product, SemGrup"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":245.218,"endTime":248.588,"body":"Supply Chain, focused on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":248.618,"endTime":250.888,"body":"supply, your supply chain, the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":248.618,"endTime":250.888,"body":"packages that you're pulling in."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":251.218,"endTime":251.418,"body":"Software"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":251.418,"endTime":253.238,"body":"supply chain is a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":251.418,"endTime":253.238,"body":"huge security concern."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":253.288,"endTime":253.708,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":253.708,"endTime":255.128,"body":"There's so many, like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":253.708,"endTime":255.128,"body":"deprecated things"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":255.128,"endTime":255.598,"body":"you can bring in."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":255.598,"endTime":257.428,"body":"There's so many,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":255.598,"endTime":257.428,"body":"like, look for Log4J."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":257.428,"endTime":260.018,"body":"There's still people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":257.428,"endTime":260.018,"body":"downloading, like, These are"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":260.018,"endTime":262.428,"body":"like issues with logj into their"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":262.438,"endTime":263.088,"body":"systems today."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":263.198,"endTime":266.038,"body":"Exactly, and a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":263.198,"endTime":266.038,"body":"tools, especially tools from"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":266.038,"endTime":268.508,"body":"5 or 10 years ago, are really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":266.038,"endTime":268.508,"body":"focused at visibility, trying"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":268.508,"endTime":271.058,"body":"to help you see all of the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":268.508,"endTime":271.058,"body":"possible vulnerabilities you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":271.058,"endTime":272.748,"body":"could be bringing in, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":271.058,"endTime":272.748,"body":"people are bringing in so"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":272.748,"endTime":276.138,"body":"many vulnerabilities, and then"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":272.748,"endTime":276.138,"body":"using only just a tiny slice"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":276.158,"endTime":278.748,"body":"of them, that we try to help"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":276.158,"endTime":278.748,"body":"people understand, okay, which"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":278.748,"endTime":280.868,"body":"packages you're bringing in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":278.748,"endTime":280.868,"body":"that have vulnerabilities, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":280.868,"endTime":282.818,"body":"then we use static analysis"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":280.868,"endTime":282.818,"body":"of your first party code to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":282.818,"endTime":285.578,"body":"see, okay, in which of these"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":282.818,"endTime":285.578,"body":"packages are you using The"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":285.578,"endTime":287.608,"body":"Dangerous Functionality, the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":285.578,"endTime":287.608,"body":"Vulnerable Functionality, we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":287.608,"endTime":288.958,"body":"call that Reachability Analysis."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":289.158,"endTime":291.398,"body":"And, and so, we, we see"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":289.158,"endTime":291.398,"body":"that we're, the user"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":291.398,"endTime":292.578,"body":"persona is really similar."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":292.758,"endTime":295.598,"body":"It's often the same person,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":292.758,"endTime":295.598,"body":"or maybe, uh, the two"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":295.598,"endTime":297.428,"body":"different people on the same"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":295.598,"endTime":297.428,"body":"team, the AppSec team, who"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":297.438,"endTime":298.528,"body":"are using both products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":298.708,"endTime":300.728,"body":"We're, so, it's the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":298.708,"endTime":300.728,"body":"same economic buyer."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":300.988,"endTime":303.888,"body":"Um, it's often the same"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":300.988,"endTime":303.888,"body":"kind of persona you want"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":303.888,"endTime":304.818,"body":"to target with marketing."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":304.918,"endTime":306.138,"body":"We don't need to think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":304.918,"endTime":306.138,"body":"about different sales,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":306.138,"endTime":307.398,"body":"we don't need to think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":306.138,"endTime":307.398,"body":"about different marketing."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":307.538,"endTime":309.758,"body":"And we often even don't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":307.538,"endTime":309.758,"body":"need to think about totally"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":310.038,"endTime":312.832,"body":"separate workflows for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":310.038,"endTime":312.832,"body":"onboarding, for, access"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":312.832,"endTime":313.932,"body":"control, for things like that."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":314.132,"endTime":316.632,"body":"But, that we're, we're talking"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":314.132,"endTime":316.632,"body":"about like two different"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":316.702,"endTime":318.372,"body":"parts of the AppSec problem."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":318.562,"endTime":320.262,"body":"And so we're thinking about,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":318.562,"endTime":320.262,"body":"okay, how do we make sure"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":320.497,"endTime":322.657,"body":"That we don't just like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":320.497,"endTime":322.657,"body":"think about this as an add"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":322.657,"endTime":323.637,"body":"on to the initial product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":323.647,"endTime":325.547,"body":"How do we make sure we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":323.647,"endTime":325.547,"body":"really serve the needs"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":325.547,"endTime":328.317,"body":"and solve this different"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":325.547,"endTime":328.317,"body":"problem really completely?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":328.517,"endTime":328.757,"body":"So do"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":328.757,"endTime":331.967,"body":"you treat it as a single"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":328.757,"endTime":331.967,"body":"AppSec platform or as two"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":331.967,"endTime":334.467,"body":"distinct products that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":331.967,"endTime":334.467,"body":"can be used in tandem?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":334.697,"endTime":334.877,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":334.877,"endTime":336.197,"body":"And that's, I think that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":334.877,"endTime":336.197,"body":"was when we decided,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":336.217,"endTime":337.6,"body":"Hey, we're gonna go"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":336.217,"endTime":337.6,"body":"build a second, product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":337.73,"endTime":340.21,"body":"That was the question was like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":337.73,"endTime":340.21,"body":"do we try to build like two"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":340.21,"endTime":342.38,"body":"point solutions that people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":340.21,"endTime":342.38,"body":"can like deploy separately?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":342.61,"endTime":344.42,"body":"Or do you try to think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":342.61,"endTime":344.42,"body":"about this as a platform?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":344.51,"endTime":346.56,"body":"What we realized is there"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":344.51,"endTime":346.56,"body":"is this kind of like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":346.58,"endTime":347.79,"body":"better together approach."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":347.98,"endTime":349.21,"body":"Uh, when you're trying to."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":349.505,"endTime":352.835,"body":"Uh, provide a product for the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":349.505,"endTime":352.835,"body":"same user or like the same team,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":353.085,"endTime":355.585,"body":"uh, that you can, uh, make it"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":353.085,"endTime":355.585,"body":"a lot easier for someone to do"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":355.585,"endTime":358.235,"body":"their job if they don't have to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":355.585,"endTime":358.235,"body":"be like really context switching"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":358.345,"endTime":359.475,"body":"when they're using the tool."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":359.485,"endTime":361.405,"body":"And then eventually you can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":359.485,"endTime":361.405,"body":"start building insights from"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":361.405,"endTime":362.645,"body":"one tool into the other."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":362.815,"endTime":364.065,"body":"Try to make it so that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":362.815,"endTime":364.065,"body":"like, okay, you're not"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":364.065,"endTime":366.125,"body":"just prioritizing two"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":364.065,"endTime":366.125,"body":"separate streams at work."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":366.285,"endTime":368.555,"body":"You're really prioritizing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":366.285,"endTime":368.555,"body":"the most valuable thing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":368.605,"endTime":370.445,"body":"you could do with your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":368.605,"endTime":370.445,"body":"time at any given point."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":370.755,"endTime":373.905,"body":"Um, so we tried to like really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":370.755,"endTime":373.905,"body":"stay focused on, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":373.905,"endTime":375.555,"body":"you're starting building the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":373.905,"endTime":375.555,"body":"product from the beginning,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":375.555,"endTime":376.435,"body":"you try to stay focused on it."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":376.685,"endTime":379.885,"body":"A single mission, um,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":376.685,"endTime":379.885,"body":"making sure you understand"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":379.885,"endTime":381.715,"body":"the problem really deeply."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":382.005,"endTime":383.925,"body":"What is the pain that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":382.005,"endTime":383.925,"body":"AppSec people are feeling?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":383.935,"endTime":385.545,"body":"They're feeling the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":383.935,"endTime":385.545,"body":"pain of a ton of noise."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":385.575,"endTime":387.315,"body":"Okay, now we're going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":385.575,"endTime":387.315,"body":"to help you focus on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":387.315,"endTime":388.955,"body":"highest priority thing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":387.315,"endTime":388.955,"body":"you could focus on."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":389.165,"endTime":391.425,"body":"But then as you start to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":389.165,"endTime":391.425,"body":"build a product, see success."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":391.615,"endTime":393.635,"body":"Now the question is, and we're,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":391.615,"endTime":393.635,"body":"you know, 18 months in, it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":393.635,"endTime":395.315,"body":"like, okay, how do we build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":393.635,"endTime":395.315,"body":"these things back together?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":395.445,"endTime":396.685,"body":"They're deployed in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":395.445,"endTime":396.685,"body":"the same platform."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":396.685,"endTime":398.015,"body":"Now, how do we make"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":396.685,"endTime":398.015,"body":"sure that they can be"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":398.015,"endTime":399.085,"body":"more useful together?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":399.54,"endTime":400.06,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":400.15,"endTime":403.32,"body":"how did these decisions inform"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":400.15,"endTime":403.32,"body":"how you then constructed"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":403.33,"endTime":406.03,"body":"the product organization and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":403.33,"endTime":406.03,"body":"belted out to support these two"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":406.03,"endTime":406.3,"body":"lines?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":406.52,"endTime":407.454,"body":"Right, I"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":406.52,"endTime":407.454,"body":"think that, one of the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":407.454,"endTime":409.444,"body":"traps you can fall into"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":407.454,"endTime":409.444,"body":"is kind of over optimizing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":409.464,"endTime":410.604,"body":"for the long term future."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":410.82,"endTime":413.01,"body":"At my previous company, Meraki,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":410.82,"endTime":413.01,"body":"would often say to ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":413.01,"endTime":414.72,"body":"like, Hey, scale problems"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":413.01,"endTime":414.72,"body":"are good problems to have."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":414.73,"endTime":416.88,"body":"You get the fortune of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":414.73,"endTime":416.88,"body":"having scale problems."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":416.88,"endTime":418.27,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":416.88,"endTime":418.27,"body":"champagne problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":418.28,"endTime":418.8,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":418.81,"endTime":421.32,"body":"If your product doesn't take off"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":418.81,"endTime":421.32,"body":"You don't get scale problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":421.34,"endTime":423.84,"body":"If you don't have large"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":421.34,"endTime":423.84,"body":"users who are going to like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":423.84,"endTime":426.11,"body":"really utilize the full"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":423.84,"endTime":426.11,"body":"breadth of the product, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":426.11,"endTime":427.02,"body":"don't get scale problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":427.23,"endTime":429.45,"body":"So scale problems exactly"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":427.23,"endTime":429.45,"body":"are champagne problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":429.45,"endTime":431.0,"body":"So we want to not over optimize."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":431.0,"endTime":432.885,"body":"We want to so we wanted to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":431.0,"endTime":432.885,"body":"focus in the beginning on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":432.885,"endTime":435.245,"body":"learning, and we'd frequently"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":432.885,"endTime":435.245,"body":"use the phrase, build to learn."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":435.565,"endTime":437.765,"body":"So we talk about, and I'll talk"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":435.565,"endTime":437.765,"body":"about in my talk later today,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":437.947,"endTime":440.085,"body":"that there's, like some trade"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":437.947,"endTime":440.085,"body":"offs you're going to make."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":440.105,"endTime":442.705,"body":"It's like, do you think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":440.105,"endTime":442.705,"body":"about optimizing for the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":442.715,"endTime":444.085,"body":"cognitive load of technology?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":444.085,"endTime":445.855,"body":"Or do you think about optimizing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":444.085,"endTime":445.855,"body":"for the cognitive load"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":446.115,"endTime":447.595,"body":"of, like, business domain?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":447.665,"endTime":449.98,"body":"And we decided at the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":447.665,"endTime":449.98,"body":"beginning, we don't have to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":450.044,"endTime":451.074,"body":"care as much about scale."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":451.074,"endTime":453.144,"body":"We don't have to care as much"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":451.074,"endTime":453.144,"body":"about like building robust"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":453.144,"endTime":455.484,"body":"systems because if a product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":453.144,"endTime":455.484,"body":"never takes off, no one gets"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":455.484,"endTime":456.754,"body":"to use our robust system."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":456.884,"endTime":458.614,"body":"The system doesn't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":456.884,"endTime":458.614,"body":"need to be robust."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":458.837,"endTime":460.537,"body":"And so at the beginning we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":458.837,"endTime":460.537,"body":"thought about, okay, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":460.537,"endTime":462.977,"body":"going to pull the minimum set"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":460.537,"endTime":462.977,"body":"of people from like a variety"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":462.977,"endTime":466.457,"body":"of domains or a variety of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":462.977,"endTime":466.457,"body":"technical expertise, give"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":466.457,"endTime":471.117,"body":"us like the, uh, breadth"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":466.457,"endTime":471.117,"body":"within the team to solve"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":471.147,"endTime":473.197,"body":"problems like okay enough."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":473.532,"endTime":475.962,"body":"But really deep dive and say to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":473.532,"endTime":475.962,"body":"ourselves over and over we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":475.962,"endTime":477.712,"body":"going to build to learn, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":475.962,"endTime":477.712,"body":"going to build to learn, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":477.712,"endTime":480.542,"body":"going to build to learn, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":477.712,"endTime":480.542,"body":"knowing eyes wide open to the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":480.552,"endTime":482.862,"body":"technical debt we're going to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":480.552,"endTime":482.862,"body":"accrue, we're going to accept"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":482.892,"endTime":485.162,"body":"that trade off, we're not going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":482.892,"endTime":485.162,"body":"to say, oh, and these systems"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":485.162,"endTime":486.982,"body":"are going to scale forever,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":485.162,"endTime":486.982,"body":"because we know that they're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":486.982,"endTime":490.177,"body":"not, but we know, hey, if this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":486.982,"endTime":490.177,"body":"thing takes off, We're going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":490.177,"endTime":492.917,"body":"to take a pause, we're going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":490.177,"endTime":492.917,"body":"to understand the directions"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":492.917,"endTime":495.587,"body":"that things are going to take"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":492.917,"endTime":495.587,"body":"off, because who knows, one of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":495.587,"endTime":497.587,"body":"these systems is going to need"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":495.587,"endTime":497.587,"body":"to scale, another might not."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":497.737,"endTime":500.207,"body":"We're going to take a step"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":497.737,"endTime":500.207,"body":"back and say, okay, to achieve"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":500.207,"endTime":503.727,"body":"the next 18 months of our"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":500.207,"endTime":503.727,"body":"roadmap, to get the product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":503.737,"endTime":505.897,"body":"to where it needs to be to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":503.737,"endTime":505.897,"body":"support the next scale of users."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":506.227,"endTime":507.277,"body":"What do we need to rebuild?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":507.277,"endTime":509.547,"body":"What do we need to develop"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":507.277,"endTime":509.547,"body":"back into the platform?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":509.697,"endTime":511.157,"body":"How do we like reintegrate?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":511.167,"endTime":513.317,"body":"So it's kind of, you're thinking"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":511.167,"endTime":513.317,"body":"of this as like a little,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":513.647,"endTime":516.087,"body":"people say this a lot, a little"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":513.647,"endTime":516.087,"body":"startup within a startup, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":516.427,"endTime":517.707,"body":"there's this aspect to it."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":517.807,"endTime":519.497,"body":"It's not a startup"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":517.807,"endTime":519.497,"body":"forever within a startup."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":519.537,"endTime":522.507,"body":"At some point you kind of try to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":519.537,"endTime":522.507,"body":"reintegrate some of the systems"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":522.527,"endTime":523.847,"body":"back into the main platform."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":523.967,"endTime":525.557,"body":"So did you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":523.967,"endTime":525.557,"body":"take an approach with user"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":525.557,"endTime":527.907,"body":"feedback where you talk to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":525.557,"endTime":527.907,"body":"your current customers to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":527.907,"endTime":530.147,"body":"start with and said, Hey, we"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":527.907,"endTime":530.147,"body":"think this is an extension."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":530.187,"endTime":531.197,"body":"This is what we're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":530.187,"endTime":531.197,"body":"kind of hearing from"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":531.197,"endTime":532.197,"body":"you that can help you."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":532.642,"endTime":534.812,"body":"Uh, let's get some of you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":532.642,"endTime":534.812,"body":"on it and kind of start"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":534.812,"endTime":536.722,"body":"getting that, that feedback"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":534.812,"endTime":536.722,"body":"and seeing how it works."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":536.722,"endTime":539.692,"body":"Or how did you get the initial"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":536.722,"endTime":539.692,"body":"user feedback you needed"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":539.702,"endTime":541.092,"body":"to make product decisions?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":541.182,"endTime":541.552,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":541.602,"endTime":543.882,"body":"One of the most fun parts about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":541.602,"endTime":543.882,"body":"working in product engineering,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":543.882,"endTime":547.232,"body":"it's the thing I love so much"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":543.882,"endTime":547.232,"body":"is this zero to one helping go"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":547.232,"endTime":549.672,"body":"from this like kernel of an idea"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":547.232,"endTime":549.672,"body":"to something that is valuable."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":549.692,"endTime":552.662,"body":"But the kernel of the idea isn't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":549.692,"endTime":552.662,"body":"really like I have some game"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":552.662,"endTime":554.942,"body":"changing thing that's going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":552.662,"endTime":554.942,"body":"to really change the world."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":554.962,"endTime":558.172,"body":"It's like I have an idea that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":554.962,"endTime":558.172,"body":"a problem was not well solved."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":558.557,"endTime":560.797,"body":"And I, in order to be able to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":558.557,"endTime":560.797,"body":"solve that problem, you need"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":560.797,"endTime":563.602,"body":"to really have a depth of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":560.797,"endTime":563.602,"body":"understanding of the problem."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":563.602,"endTime":566.517,"body":"So the first month or two was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":563.602,"endTime":566.517,"body":"just, yeah, talking to whatever"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":566.517,"endTime":568.907,"body":"customers would talk to us,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":566.517,"endTime":568.907,"body":"talking to people who had a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":568.907,"endTime":572.007,"body":"lot of breadth and depth in the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":568.907,"endTime":572.007,"body":"space, people who we expected"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":572.007,"endTime":575.047,"body":"never to be customers, people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":572.007,"endTime":575.047,"body":"who are like, uh, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":575.107,"endTime":577.317,"body":"other people who are thinking"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":575.107,"endTime":577.317,"body":"and have been in this space"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":577.317,"endTime":579.887,"body":"for 20 or 30 years, who would"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":577.317,"endTime":579.887,"body":"tell us, hey, this is the pain"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":579.887,"endTime":582.157,"body":"that we see, these are the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":579.887,"endTime":582.157,"body":"problems that are unsolved,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":582.277,"endTime":584.697,"body":"trying to get an understanding"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":582.277,"endTime":584.697,"body":"of like, okay, where is a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":584.697,"endTime":590.262,"body":"place you can like Um, and from"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":584.697,"endTime":590.262,"body":"there, uh, we tried to develop"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":590.262,"endTime":593.212,"body":"like a core group of four"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":590.262,"endTime":593.212,"body":"or five, uh, early partners."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":593.262,"endTime":595.632,"body":"And the benefit here is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":593.262,"endTime":595.632,"body":"that Semgrep is open source."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":595.932,"endTime":598.212,"body":"Um, we're really able to lean"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":595.932,"endTime":598.212,"body":"on that open source community."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":598.212,"endTime":600.332,"body":"Our customers are really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":598.212,"endTime":600.332,"body":"willing to give us feedback."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":600.342,"endTime":602.572,"body":"Some of them even contribute"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":600.342,"endTime":602.572,"body":"back to the open source tool,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":602.572,"endTime":603.672,"body":"which is great, really cool."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":603.702,"endTime":605.132,"body":"And it means we also"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":603.702,"endTime":605.132,"body":"have a community slack."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":605.507,"endTime":609.217,"body":"With now I think 3, 000 people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":605.507,"endTime":609.217,"body":"in it who are like constantly"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":609.217,"endTime":611.197,"body":"talking and it means that we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":609.217,"endTime":611.197,"body":"have access to our customers"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":611.197,"endTime":613.177,"body":"on like a daily, hourly basis."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":613.427,"endTime":615.807,"body":"Um, there's this really fun,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":613.427,"endTime":615.807,"body":"a lot of people will talk"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":615.817,"endTime":617.897,"body":"about like trying to shrink"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":615.817,"endTime":617.897,"body":"the iteration and feedback"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":617.897,"endTime":620.597,"body":"loop as, as, as quick as"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":617.897,"endTime":620.597,"body":"possible, make that iteration"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":620.607,"endTime":621.517,"body":"loop as quick as possible."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":621.777,"endTime":623.752,"body":"With, when you, when you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":621.777,"endTime":623.752,"body":"have a Slack thread going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":623.752,"endTime":625.967,"body":"with a customer, that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":623.752,"endTime":625.967,"body":"feedback loop can be minutes."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":626.297,"endTime":628.657,"body":"Uh, we would sometimes"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":626.297,"endTime":628.657,"body":"come up with an idea, we'd,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":628.737,"endTime":630.467,"body":"build something really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":628.737,"endTime":630.467,"body":"quick in an hour or two."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":630.697,"endTime":633.097,"body":"We'd slack a couple of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":630.697,"endTime":633.097,"body":"our partners and say,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":633.097,"endTime":634.057,"body":"Hey, what do you think?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":634.277,"endTime":635.177,"body":"We'd post a screenshot."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":635.197,"endTime":636.207,"body":"Maybe we'd want to screen share."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":636.207,"endTime":637.957,"body":"They'd say like, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":636.207,"endTime":637.957,"body":"I'll hop on in 20 minutes."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":638.217,"endTime":641.487,"body":"Uh, they'd give us some quick"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":638.217,"endTime":641.487,"body":"feedback and then in the same"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":641.487,"endTime":644.297,"body":"day we'd be able to take their"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":641.487,"endTime":644.297,"body":"feedback, make an iteration,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":644.604,"endTime":647.144,"body":"put something else up and get"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":644.604,"endTime":647.144,"body":"another round of feedback."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":647.144,"endTime":648.854,"body":"So we're able to move"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":647.144,"endTime":648.854,"body":"really fast and that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":648.854,"endTime":649.579,"body":"mean that we were like."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":649.759,"endTime":651.889,"body":"Coming up with brilliant ideas"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":649.759,"endTime":651.889,"body":"every day, what it means is we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":651.889,"endTime":653.099,"body":"were failing really quickly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":653.119,"endTime":654.849,"body":"We were understanding,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":653.119,"endTime":654.849,"body":"like, the edges."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":655.009,"endTime":656.189,"body":"We iteration on it."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":656.219,"endTime":656.799,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":656.809,"endTime":659.829,"body":"And so what looked like really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":656.809,"endTime":659.829,"body":"fast progress on an idea"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":659.829,"endTime":661.029,"body":"that, like, from the outside"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":659.829,"endTime":661.029,"body":"you could have just said,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":661.029,"endTime":662.869,"body":"like, oh, this idea worked"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":661.029,"endTime":662.869,"body":"really well the first time."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":662.869,"endTime":663.449,"body":"It's like, no, no, no, no, no."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":664.029,"endTime":667.239,"body":"Let me tell you, we had 30,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":664.029,"endTime":667.239,"body":"40 ideas that were not useful."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":667.524,"endTime":671.004,"body":"But the fast iteration loop"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":667.524,"endTime":671.004,"body":"and customers and partners are"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":671.014,"endTime":673.434,"body":"really willing to be honest with"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":671.014,"endTime":673.434,"body":"us, give us feedback because"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":673.434,"endTime":676.724,"body":"they knew they'd benefit one"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":673.434,"endTime":676.724,"body":"day from them getting a product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":676.724,"endTime":677.854,"body":"that was really useful to them."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":678.092,"endTime":680.162,"body":"that made it so that we could"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":678.092,"endTime":680.162,"body":"use that fast feedback to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":680.162,"endTime":682.832,"body":"really shape the direction of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":680.162,"endTime":682.832,"body":"the product, find that early"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":682.832,"endTime":684.442,"body":"landing point pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":684.812,"endTime":685.462,"body":"So for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":685.462,"endTime":688.272,"body":"other leaders who are listening"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":685.462,"endTime":688.272,"body":"to this or maybe about to hit"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":688.272,"endTime":691.232,"body":"this stage of, Hey, I need"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":688.272,"endTime":691.232,"body":"to go build a second product"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":691.242,"endTime":693.072,"body":"or I need to build a team"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":691.242,"endTime":693.072,"body":"to build a second product."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":693.512,"endTime":695.582,"body":"What would be the advice"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":693.512,"endTime":695.582,"body":"you would give them based"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":695.582,"endTime":697.152,"body":"on your trial and error?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":697.642,"endTime":699.462,"body":"So, I think first"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":697.642,"endTime":699.462,"body":"of all from an organization"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":699.462,"endTime":701.232,"body":"perspective, if you're going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":699.462,"endTime":701.232,"body":"to go build a second product,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":701.272,"endTime":703.412,"body":"you're going to take resources"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":701.272,"endTime":703.412,"body":"away from the first product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":703.642,"endTime":705.872,"body":"So you want to have an open"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":703.642,"endTime":705.872,"body":"and honest conversation"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":705.882,"endTime":708.132,"body":"with the other leaders of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":705.882,"endTime":708.132,"body":"your organization, with your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":708.132,"endTime":711.312,"body":"boss, with the CEO, whoever,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":708.132,"endTime":711.312,"body":"about what kind of pain"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":711.312,"endTime":712.872,"body":"you're going to put on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":711.312,"endTime":712.872,"body":"rest of the organization."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":713.677,"endTime":716.537,"body":"If people aren't engaging there,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":713.677,"endTime":716.537,"body":"people are like, it'll be fine."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":716.647,"endTime":718.367,"body":"I think you really haven't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":716.647,"endTime":718.367,"body":"started the conversation."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":718.597,"endTime":720.207,"body":"You want people to sort"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":718.597,"endTime":720.207,"body":"of agree that things else"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":720.207,"endTime":721.017,"body":"we're going to slow down."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":721.027,"endTime":723.477,"body":"I think one of the other things"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":721.027,"endTime":723.477,"body":"to be careful of is to make"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":723.477,"endTime":726.647,"body":"sure that your experimentation"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":723.477,"endTime":726.647,"body":"doesn't put the existing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":726.647,"endTime":729.237,"body":"products like stability,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":726.647,"endTime":729.237,"body":"reliability, brand at risk."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":729.357,"endTime":731.807,"body":"So you're looking to find"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":729.357,"endTime":731.807,"body":"ways to really mitigate that."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":731.807,"endTime":733.457,"body":"For us, it was making"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":731.807,"endTime":733.457,"body":"sure that we had developer"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":733.457,"endTime":735.527,"body":"partners and they were the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":733.457,"endTime":735.527,"body":"only ones who were seeing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":735.527,"endTime":737.267,"body":"our early versions that were."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":737.432,"endTime":740.302,"body":"Uh, totally okay with"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":737.432,"endTime":740.302,"body":"something very low quality."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":740.602,"endTime":743.062,"body":"And it also meant early on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":740.602,"endTime":743.062,"body":"making sure that like the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":743.072,"endTime":745.572,"body":"stack that we were developing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":743.072,"endTime":745.572,"body":"on was totally isolated"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":745.712,"endTime":746.422,"body":"from the initial one."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":746.442,"endTime":748.992,"body":"And that meant at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":746.442,"endTime":748.992,"body":"day, we threw away all of that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":748.992,"endTime":752.652,"body":"code and we had to go into the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":748.992,"endTime":752.652,"body":"mindset of like, Hey, all of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":752.652,"endTime":754.292,"body":"the stuff we wrote early, it."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":754.722,"endTime":756.682,"body":"Not only shouldn't it"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":754.722,"endTime":756.682,"body":"be in the product, it"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":756.682,"endTime":757.992,"body":"cannot be in the product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":758.962,"endTime":761.072,"body":"There's a point where you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":758.962,"endTime":761.072,"body":"transition from build to learn"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":761.072,"endTime":763.832,"body":"to like build to build and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":761.072,"endTime":763.832,"body":"like go make a product exist."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":764.022,"endTime":766.052,"body":"And at that point you have to,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":764.022,"endTime":766.052,"body":"then you can take a step back"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":766.052,"endTime":767.702,"body":"and say, great, there are some"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":766.052,"endTime":767.702,"body":"things we need to make sure"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":767.702,"endTime":768.962,"body":"are true for stability reasons."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":769.242,"endTime":770.592,"body":"And then you can think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":769.242,"endTime":770.592,"body":"more deeply about like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":770.592,"endTime":772.352,"body":"what system to build, how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":770.592,"endTime":772.352,"body":"to build them effectively,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":772.352,"endTime":773.432,"body":"how to build them robustly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":773.812,"endTime":777.812,"body":"But if you try to do that from"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":773.812,"endTime":777.812,"body":"the beginning, your iteration"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":777.832,"endTime":780.402,"body":"time, you're like, you're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":777.832,"endTime":780.402,"body":"gonna, you are gonna throw your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":780.402,"endTime":782.882,"body":"initial product in jeopardy"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":780.402,"endTime":782.882,"body":"in terms of reliability and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":782.882,"endTime":783.782,"body":"are gonna go more slowly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":783.782,"endTime":785.022,"body":"So finding ways to."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":785.487,"endTime":788.607,"body":"Uh, separate out your, like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":785.487,"endTime":788.607,"body":"development stack early,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":788.887,"endTime":790.237,"body":"uh, can really be useful."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":790.467,"endTime":792.417,"body":"it also means, as you're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":790.467,"endTime":792.417,"body":"trying to find that early"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":792.417,"endTime":794.927,"body":"feedback, it means, like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":792.417,"endTime":794.927,"body":"really limiting the scope"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":794.927,"endTime":796.337,"body":"of who you're trialing with."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":796.817,"endTime":799.747,"body":"We made the mistake early on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":796.817,"endTime":799.747,"body":"of trying to say, like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":799.747,"endTime":802.317,"body":"let's see if we can get 10,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":799.747,"endTime":802.317,"body":"20, 30 people interested."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":802.327,"endTime":804.667,"body":"And they were, but there's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":802.327,"endTime":804.667,"body":"different degrees of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":804.667,"endTime":805.572,"body":"how interested they are."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":805.572,"endTime":805.887,"body":"Right, can I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":805.887,"endTime":807.997,"body":"get a hold of them the same"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":805.887,"endTime":807.997,"body":"day to get that quick feedback"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":807.997,"endTime":810.507,"body":"like you mentioned so we can"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":807.997,"endTime":810.507,"body":"improve the The product very"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":810.507,"endTime":812.807,"body":"rapidly, or is it going to be,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":810.507,"endTime":812.807,"body":"oh yeah, I'll get back to you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":812.807,"endTime":815.677,"body":"later this week or next week,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":812.807,"endTime":815.677,"body":"and it'll slow you down, maybe."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":815.717,"endTime":817.587,"body":"Exactly, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":815.717,"endTime":817.587,"body":"we can't manage 20 or 30"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":817.857,"endTime":820.217,"body":"relationships, even if"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":817.857,"endTime":820.217,"body":"they all wanted to give us"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":820.217,"endTime":821.167,"body":"feedback really quickly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":821.447,"endTime":824.417,"body":"Um, and so, true, not all"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":821.447,"endTime":824.417,"body":"of them did, and we were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":824.417,"endTime":826.857,"body":"able to, instead, like, we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":824.417,"endTime":826.857,"body":"gauged, okay, there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":826.857,"endTime":827.867,"body":"of excitement in this area."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":827.987,"endTime":829.957,"body":"We were able to tell them,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":827.987,"endTime":829.957,"body":"like, hey, great, we'll"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":829.957,"endTime":832.057,"body":"come back to you when we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":829.957,"endTime":832.057,"body":"have an alpha version ready."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":832.297,"endTime":834.307,"body":"Um, but we were able to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":832.297,"endTime":834.307,"body":"narrow the pool to four"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":834.307,"endTime":836.557,"body":"or five folks who could"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":834.307,"endTime":836.557,"body":"be really good partners."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":836.772,"endTime":840.472,"body":"Who were really willing to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":836.772,"endTime":840.472,"body":"be honest with us, who we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":840.472,"endTime":842.812,"body":"could, go into something with"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":840.472,"endTime":842.812,"body":"something kind of scrappy."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":843.032,"endTime":845.552,"body":"Um, and that made the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":843.032,"endTime":845.552,"body":"relationship really strong."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":845.592,"endTime":847.062,"body":"Eventually these folks"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":845.592,"endTime":847.062,"body":"ended up being like the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":847.062,"endTime":849.042,"body":"strongest partners for us"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":847.062,"endTime":849.042,"body":"when we went to market."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":849.342,"endTime":851.122,"body":"There are like most"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":849.342,"endTime":851.122,"body":"committed users today."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":851.282,"endTime":853.022,"body":"And I think they feel a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":851.282,"endTime":853.022,"body":"lot of skin in the game."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":853.032,"endTime":854.842,"body":"They feel like we built"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":853.032,"endTime":854.842,"body":"a product for them."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":855.342,"endTime":857.142,"body":"And that's helped us like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":855.342,"endTime":857.142,"body":"you know, they sometimes"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":857.142,"endTime":858.322,"body":"will advocate for us."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":858.362,"endTime":861.392,"body":"They'll go talk to some of their"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":858.362,"endTime":861.392,"body":"friends, their partners, other,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":861.412,"endTime":864.282,"body":"other companies that they think,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":861.412,"endTime":864.282,"body":"think similarly to them and say"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":864.282,"endTime":867.012,"body":"like, Hey, this is, this is like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":864.282,"endTime":867.012,"body":"they built a product for us."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":867.032,"endTime":869.132,"body":"And I think they built a built"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":867.032,"endTime":869.132,"body":"a product for you and that's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":869.152,"endTime":871.282,"body":"helped us get a little bit"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":869.152,"endTime":871.282,"body":"more traction and a foothold."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":871.627,"endTime":873.937,"body":"Are there other"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":871.627,"endTime":873.937,"body":"insights that you drew from"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":873.947,"endTime":875.557,"body":"this build to learn phase?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":876.087,"endTime":877.817,"body":"When you talk about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":876.087,"endTime":877.817,"body":"build to learn, it's something"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":877.817,"endTime":880.187,"body":"that can be a little trite."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":880.407,"endTime":882.367,"body":"People will talk"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":880.407,"endTime":882.367,"body":"about, like, the MVP."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":882.467,"endTime":884.837,"body":"Yeah, um, I've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":882.467,"endTime":884.837,"body":"probably overused that phrase."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":884.877,"endTime":888.337,"body":"Right, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":884.877,"endTime":888.337,"body":"MVP means, like, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":888.337,"endTime":889.867,"body":"things and kind of nothing."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":889.887,"endTime":892.427,"body":"It can be a word that people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":889.887,"endTime":892.427,"body":"throw around to just mean, like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":892.427,"endTime":893.577,"body":"let's get something out there."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":893.817,"endTime":895.847,"body":"And, you know, we'll"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":893.817,"endTime":895.847,"body":"come back to it later."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":895.967,"endTime":897.757,"body":"It can also kind of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":895.967,"endTime":897.757,"body":"be weaponized to say,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":897.757,"endTime":898.847,"body":"like, let's cut corners."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":899.267,"endTime":902.117,"body":"Um, and like, cutting corners"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":899.267,"endTime":902.117,"body":"is good at certain stages,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":902.117,"endTime":905.057,"body":"but you also want to cut"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":902.117,"endTime":905.057,"body":"corners sort of tactfully."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":905.057,"endTime":907.922,"body":"I think one of the things we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":905.057,"endTime":907.922,"body":"benefited from a lot was People"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":907.962,"endTime":911.102,"body":"on the initial team were pretty"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":907.962,"endTime":911.102,"body":"experienced as they knew the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":911.102,"endTime":914.042,"body":"kinds of corners that you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":911.102,"endTime":914.042,"body":"could cut and not pay for too"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":914.042,"endTime":916.852,"body":"dearly in the future and the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":914.042,"endTime":916.852,"body":"kind of like corners that like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":916.862,"endTime":919.782,"body":"maybe are just totally worth"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":916.862,"endTime":919.782,"body":"avoiding whatsoever, let's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":919.782,"endTime":922.262,"body":"not even dig into this, we'll"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":919.782,"endTime":922.262,"body":"find a solution for it later."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":922.632,"endTime":923.302,"body":"How big was the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":923.302,"endTime":925.422,"body":"team that was engineering"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":923.302,"endTime":925.422,"body":"the second product"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":925.462,"endTime":926.262,"body":"when you got started?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":926.622,"endTime":926.982,"body":"At the very"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":926.982,"endTime":927.932,"body":"beginning, it was just me."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":928.612,"endTime":931.622,"body":"Uh, and that was like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":928.612,"endTime":931.622,"body":"the phase of we were just"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":931.662,"endTime":933.352,"body":"talking to, I was like, had."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":933.403,"endTime":936.052,"body":"Uh, 10 or 15 meetings a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":933.403,"endTime":936.052,"body":"day with, with like, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":936.072,"endTime":939.119,"body":"external people who could"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":936.072,"endTime":939.119,"body":"give me feedback and, I was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":939.149,"endTime":941.389,"body":"building something with like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":939.149,"endTime":941.389,"body":"a Lambda that was totally"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":941.389,"endTime":943.439,"body":"separated out and like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":941.389,"endTime":943.439,"body":"everything looked awful."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":943.749,"endTime":945.779,"body":"Uh, I'm so glad that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":943.749,"endTime":945.779,"body":"doesn't exist today."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":945.789,"endTime":946.509,"body":"No, this is"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":945.789,"endTime":946.509,"body":"really interesting because"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":946.529,"endTime":948.769,"body":"it is, you really took the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":946.529,"endTime":948.769,"body":"approach of we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":948.769,"endTime":949.619,"body":"a startup within a startup."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":949.619,"endTime":951.159,"body":"Like you said, like it was"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":949.619,"endTime":951.159,"body":"almost like, Hey, I'm founding"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":951.159,"endTime":953.939,"body":"this new thing that is building"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":951.159,"endTime":953.939,"body":"off this open source framework."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":953.949,"endTime":954.249,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":954.249,"endTime":957.189,"body":"And it's going to be new and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":954.249,"endTime":957.189,"body":"helpful, but it's So it's,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":957.199,"endTime":958.959,"body":"I mean, it was you and then"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":957.199,"endTime":958.959,"body":"I'm assuming you had to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":958.959,"endTime":961.789,"body":"bring in some resources from"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":958.959,"endTime":961.789,"body":"within the company and also"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":961.789,"endTime":963.079,"body":"probably hire net new devs"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":963.089,"endTime":963.599,"body":"to help out."},{"speaker":"Adam 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Berman","startTime":972.679,"endTime":974.369,"body":"20 percent time to help"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":974.389,"endTime":975.339,"body":"unblock and that's awesome."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":975.339,"endTime":977.069,"body":"So I don't, I don't want in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":975.339,"endTime":977.069,"body":"any way to say that I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":977.089,"endTime":978.079,"body":"want to take credit for this."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":978.229,"endTime":979.979,"body":"This is an idea, also, we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":978.229,"endTime":979.979,"body":"look back like, this is an"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":979.979,"endTime":981.054,"body":"idea the founders had like."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":981.054,"endTime":982.662,"body":"They had this conversation at"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":981.054,"endTime":982.662,"body":"some point five or six years"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":982.662,"endTime":984.364,"body":"beforehand, they're like hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":982.662,"endTime":984.364,"body":"this would be really cool to do."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":985.064,"endTime":987.134,"body":"Right, but there wasn't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":985.064,"endTime":987.134,"body":"traction at the time, so they"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":987.134,"endTime":989.984,"body":"sunset it, which was like, ok,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":987.134,"endTime":989.984,"body":"what if we dig this up again."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":990.207,"endTime":992.474,"body":"and, you said like, think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":990.207,"endTime":992.474,"body":"about it as an investment in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":992.474,"endTime":993.374,"body":"a startup, within a startup."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":993.524,"endTime":996.094,"body":"It's something we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":993.524,"endTime":996.094,"body":"literally explicitly did."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":996.094,"endTime":998.324,"body":"I talked to the founders"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":996.094,"endTime":998.324,"body":"and they said, Think of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":998.324,"endTime":999.864,"body":"us as like your investors."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":999.864,"endTime":1000.934,"body":"Think of us as your VC."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1001.074,"endTime":1003.264,"body":"We're going to think about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1001.074,"endTime":1003.264,"body":"like, okay, your salary is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1003.264,"endTime":1005.734,"body":"what we're investing in it for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1003.264,"endTime":1005.734,"body":"a few months to begin with."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1005.864,"endTime":1008.644,"body":"And one of the possibly good"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1005.864,"endTime":1008.644,"body":"outcomes is that you decide"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1008.654,"endTime":1011.274,"body":"after two months of full"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1008.654,"endTime":1011.274,"body":"time investigation, that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1011.274,"endTime":1012.754,"body":"this is not worth exploring."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1012.824,"endTime":1014.224,"body":"And that's, we've"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1012.824,"endTime":1014.224,"body":"limited our investment."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1014.934,"endTime":1016.434,"body":"And we'll move on to something"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1014.934,"endTime":1016.434,"body":"that could be more valuable."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1016.444,"endTime":1016.784,"body":"We didn't have"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1016.784,"endTime":1019.344,"body":"to raise that, you know, Series"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1016.784,"endTime":1019.344,"body":"A round for you and really,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1019.344,"endTime":1020.554,"body":"like, burn some cash through."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1020.614,"endTime":1021.144,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1021.154,"endTime":1023.504,"body":"But the other opportunity"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1021.154,"endTime":1023.504,"body":"is like, you decide that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1023.504,"endTime":1024.524,"body":"there is something here."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1024.534,"endTime":1026.734,"body":"That there's a market for it,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1024.534,"endTime":1026.734,"body":"that there's a technology that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1026.734,"endTime":1028.954,"body":"we have that can make this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1026.734,"endTime":1028.954,"body":"really useful, and then they can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1028.954,"endTime":1031.824,"body":"increase their investment and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1028.954,"endTime":1031.824,"body":"think of it as another capital"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1031.824,"endTime":1032.694,"body":"investment in this product."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1032.694,"endTime":1033.194,"body":"This is a really"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1033.194,"endTime":1034.974,"body":"cool idea, because I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1033.194,"endTime":1034.974,"body":"mean, you can really"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1034.974,"endTime":1035.814,"body":"draw these lines, right?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1035.814,"endTime":1038.504,"body":"Of like, so your investigation"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1035.814,"endTime":1038.504,"body":"phase is your, like, families"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1038.504,"endTime":1039.544,"body":"and friends round, right?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1039.554,"endTime":1041.544,"body":"And then it's like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1039.554,"endTime":1041.544,"body":"our seed round now is"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1041.544,"endTime":1043.474,"body":"when we're going into"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1041.544,"endTime":1043.474,"body":"this build to learn phase."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1043.474,"endTime":1043.654,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1043.864,"endTime":1047.044,"body":"And then maybe the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1043.864,"endTime":1047.044,"body":"build to build phase"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1047.054,"endTime":1049.724,"body":"is your series A round."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1049.724,"endTime":1051.304,"body":"It's like, hey, we're actually,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1049.724,"endTime":1051.304,"body":"we're going for this now."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1051.304,"endTime":1054.044,"body":"So I like this framing because"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1051.304,"endTime":1054.044,"body":"it helps explain it in a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1054.044,"endTime":1056.664,"body":"way that I think is very"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1054.044,"endTime":1056.664,"body":"common for anyone who's been"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1056.664,"endTime":1057.334,"body":"involved in the startup space."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1057.644,"endTime":1058.044,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1058.064,"endTime":1058.184,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Adam 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case,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1069.024,"endTime":1070.754,"body":"they have literally built"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1069.024,"endTime":1070.754,"body":"the startup you're a part of."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1070.764,"endTime":1072.614,"body":"So they really know the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1070.764,"endTime":1072.614,"body":"context really well."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1072.734,"endTime":1075.604,"body":"And so they were able to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1072.734,"endTime":1075.604,"body":"guide, give advice, uh, help"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1075.604,"endTime":1078.204,"body":"me like see around corners"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1075.604,"endTime":1078.204,"body":"they'd already seen before."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1078.454,"endTime":1080.914,"body":"Um, and then as the scope"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1078.454,"endTime":1080.914,"body":"expanded, so the team would have"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1080.964,"endTime":1084.464,"body":"expanded from like a one person"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1080.964,"endTime":1084.464,"body":"investment to like 50 percent"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1084.464,"endTime":1086.564,"body":"of a security researcher,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1084.464,"endTime":1086.564,"body":"50 percent of a program"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1086.564,"endTime":1088.574,"body":"analysis engineer to really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1086.564,"endTime":1088.574,"body":"dig into some of the tech."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1088.804,"endTime":1089.134,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1089.134,"endTime":1089.282,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1089.282,"endTime":1089.429,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1089.839,"endTime":1092.589,"body":"We expanded by the time we were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1089.839,"endTime":1092.589,"body":"three months away from launch."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1092.589,"endTime":1095.629,"body":"That was like July of 2022."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1095.749,"endTime":1096.999,"body":"We launched it in October."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1097.259,"endTime":1099.769,"body":"Uh, we had added two more"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1097.259,"endTime":1099.769,"body":"cloud engineers to the team."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1099.979,"endTime":1102.369,"body":"Uh, and the security researcher"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1099.979,"endTime":1102.369,"body":"and the program analysis"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1102.369,"endTime":1103.589,"body":"engineer had gone full time."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1103.589,"endTime":1107.539,"body":"So we had a four plus me person"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1103.589,"endTime":1107.539,"body":"team, a five person team, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1107.549,"endTime":1109.079,"body":"bringing this to market for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1107.549,"endTime":1109.079,"body":"the last couple of months."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1109.079,"endTime":1109.919,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1109.079,"endTime":1109.919,"body":"that build to build phase."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1109.919,"endTime":1111.569,"body":"That's that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1109.919,"endTime":1111.569,"body":"build to build phase, exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1111.569,"endTime":1113.219,"body":"And by that time, I had to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1111.569,"endTime":1113.219,"body":"be able to pitch the other"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1113.219,"endTime":1115.319,"body":"engineers and say like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1113.219,"endTime":1115.319,"body":"hey, you're tying some of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1115.319,"endTime":1116.459,"body":"your career to this too."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1116.749,"endTime":1120.646,"body":"This isn't just a this isn't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1116.749,"endTime":1120.646,"body":"something where if five of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1120.646,"endTime":1122.796,"body":"us tried to all coordinate"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1120.646,"endTime":1122.796,"body":"building to learn at the same"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1122.796,"endTime":1125.126,"body":"time, we're probably not going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1122.796,"endTime":1125.126,"body":"to do that very effectively."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1125.346,"endTime":1127.966,"body":"This is something that we feel"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1125.346,"endTime":1127.966,"body":"like there is a lot of, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1128.016,"endTime":1131.076,"body":"conviction that if we build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1128.016,"endTime":1131.076,"body":"well and we build the right"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1131.076,"endTime":1132.486,"body":"thing, there will be success."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1132.696,"endTime":1134.826,"body":"And, I mean, like, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1132.696,"endTime":1134.826,"body":"know, engineers are gonna"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1134.916,"endTime":1137.386,"body":"only come join a team"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1134.916,"endTime":1137.386,"body":"if they feel personally"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1137.396,"endTime":1138.516,"body":"bought in to the mission."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1138.836,"endTime":1140.026,"body":"Personally bought"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1138.836,"endTime":1140.026,"body":"in and excited."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1140.046,"endTime":1141.476,"body":"You never want to be the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1140.046,"endTime":1141.476,"body":"engineer that's like kind of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1141.606,"endTime":1143.126,"body":"pushed to the same project."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1143.356,"endTime":1145.766,"body":"Um, and so getting them"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1143.356,"endTime":1145.766,"body":"bought in was kind of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1145.766,"endTime":1146.696,"body":"a signal to me too."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1146.696,"endTime":1148.656,"body":"It was like, okay, if I can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1146.696,"endTime":1148.656,"body":"get other people on the team"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1148.656,"endTime":1150.286,"body":"really bought in that they"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1148.656,"endTime":1150.286,"body":"could spend a couple months"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1150.286,"endTime":1152.726,"body":"on this and make a big impact,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1150.286,"endTime":1152.726,"body":"that probably means that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1152.726,"endTime":1154.466,"body":"we're moving in the right"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1152.726,"endTime":1154.466,"body":"direction and that it's also"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1154.466,"endTime":1155.806,"body":"like the right time to do this."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1156.016,"endTime":1157.326,"body":"And we thought about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1156.016,"endTime":1157.326,"body":"this as like, great,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1157.326,"endTime":1158.316,"body":"this is our series A."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1158.366,"endTime":1160.286,"body":"It also meant that we started"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1158.366,"endTime":1160.286,"body":"like the board of directors"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1160.296,"endTime":1162.106,"body":"also, got a little bit wider."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1162.116,"endTime":1163.246,"body":"It wasn't just the founders."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1163.246,"endTime":1165.166,"body":"It was now like the other"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1163.246,"endTime":1165.166,"body":"kind of executives at the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1165.186,"endTime":1168.016,"body":"company were bringing in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1165.186,"endTime":1168.016,"body":"sales or right marketing."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1168.016,"endTime":1170.446,"body":"We're building in HR and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1168.016,"endTime":1170.446,"body":"recruiting in the sense of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1170.636,"endTime":1171.716,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1170.636,"endTime":1171.716,"body":"other VC got to bring"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1171.716,"endTime":1172.346,"body":"another board member."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1172.346,"endTime":1172.626,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1172.626,"endTime":1173.106,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1173.106,"endTime":1175.036,"body":"And we're starting to think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1173.106,"endTime":1175.036,"body":"about this is no longer a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1175.036,"endTime":1176.666,"body":"short lived experimental team."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1176.676,"endTime":1177.766,"body":"This is a long lived team."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1177.816,"endTime":1179.146,"body":"We got to think about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1177.816,"endTime":1179.146,"body":"the health of the team."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1179.356,"endTime":1180.426,"body":"There's a long lived product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1180.466,"endTime":1181.756,"body":"We got to think about how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1180.466,"endTime":1181.756,"body":"we're going to market it,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1181.766,"endTime":1182.546,"body":"how we're going to sell it."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1182.796,"endTime":1184.886,"body":"Um, and your job as the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1182.796,"endTime":1184.886,"body":"engineering leader is a little"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1184.886,"endTime":1188.671,"body":"bit like a, you know, Uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1184.886,"endTime":1188.671,"body":"CEO or CTO is to think about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1188.671,"endTime":1191.771,"body":"like, okay, where does the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1188.671,"endTime":1191.771,"body":"business and the technology,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1191.771,"endTime":1192.861,"body":"how do those things intersect?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1193.061,"endTime":1195.161,"body":"How can you make sure you're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1193.061,"endTime":1195.161,"body":"optimizing your organization"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1195.161,"endTime":1196.941,"body":"for the next phase of growth?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1197.181,"endTime":1197.691,"body":"So fast"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1197.691,"endTime":1200.131,"body":"forward a year, we're having"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1197.691,"endTime":1200.131,"body":"this conversation at LeadDev"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1200.161,"endTime":1203.071,"body":"West Coast, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1200.161,"endTime":1203.071,"body":"October 2023, the product's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1203.071,"endTime":1204.111,"body":"been live for about a year."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1204.141,"endTime":1204.421,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1204.691,"endTime":1205.411,"body":"How big's the team"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1205.411,"endTime":1205.991,"body":"working on it now?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1206.251,"endTime":1207.561,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1206.251,"endTime":1207.561,"body":"it's now two teams."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1207.571,"endTime":1211.331,"body":"What we've done is we've, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1207.571,"endTime":1211.331,"body":"built like a five, a six person,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1211.331,"endTime":1215.571,"body":"like full stack team, uh, that's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1211.331,"endTime":1215.571,"body":"like senior and understands the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1215.571,"endTime":1218.711,"body":"domain and has a lot more like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1215.571,"endTime":1218.711,"body":"of the technical expertise to,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1218.711,"endTime":1221.121,"body":"to be able to build some of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1218.711,"endTime":1221.121,"body":"those systems more effectively."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1221.396,"endTime":1225.296,"body":"We also realized that there"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1221.396,"endTime":1225.296,"body":"was like one key, like deep"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1225.296,"endTime":1227.166,"body":"technical piece that was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1225.296,"endTime":1227.166,"body":"very different from the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1227.166,"endTime":1231.406,"body":"rest, that its own workflows"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1227.166,"endTime":1231.406,"body":"needed staffing, uh, because"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1231.406,"endTime":1233.286,"body":"like the work streams were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1231.406,"endTime":1233.286,"body":"pretty continuous and that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1233.286,"endTime":1234.386,"body":"was security research."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1234.616,"endTime":1237.116,"body":"We needed folks who could be"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1234.616,"endTime":1237.116,"body":"full time paying attention"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1237.116,"endTime":1239.466,"body":"to CVEs, diving deep"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1237.116,"endTime":1239.466,"body":"into them, understanding."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1239.676,"endTime":1240.756,"body":"What makes them dangerous?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1240.756,"endTime":1242.026,"body":"Writing semgrep rules for them."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1242.316,"endTime":1245.686,"body":"And that workflow was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1242.316,"endTime":1245.686,"body":"like, just very different"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1245.736,"endTime":1247.826,"body":"from how the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1245.736,"endTime":1247.826,"body":"engineering team, like product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1247.826,"endTime":1249.106,"body":"engineering team was working."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1249.316,"endTime":1251.516,"body":"We tried, I think as much"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1249.316,"endTime":1251.516,"body":"as possible, I try to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1251.516,"endTime":1252.636,"body":"like keep teams together."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1252.656,"endTime":1254.906,"body":"The more you like artificially"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1252.656,"endTime":1254.906,"body":"segment teams, the more"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1254.906,"endTime":1256.276,"body":"communication overhead there is."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1256.536,"endTime":1259.806,"body":"Um, and folks want that context"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1256.536,"endTime":1259.806,"body":"because as much as possible, if"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1259.806,"endTime":1262.316,"body":"two people are working on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1259.806,"endTime":1262.316,"body":"same kind of problem, they're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1262.316,"endTime":1265.496,"body":"on the same team, they Know"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1262.316,"endTime":1265.496,"body":"how to work together that a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1265.526,"endTime":1267.716,"body":"problem that project is gonna"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1265.526,"endTime":1267.716,"body":"be more successful, right?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1268.446,"endTime":1270.006,"body":"But we kind of got to the point"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1268.446,"endTime":1270.006,"body":"where it felt like we were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1270.046,"endTime":1272.106,"body":"Artificially keeping these"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1270.046,"endTime":1272.106,"body":"teams together and there was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1272.106,"endTime":1275.516,"body":"pain in the other direction of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1272.106,"endTime":1275.516,"body":"like everybody trying to keep"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1275.516,"endTime":1278.876,"body":"context on this other stuff"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1275.516,"endTime":1278.876,"body":"you'd find that like people were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1278.986,"endTime":1282.736,"body":"kind of tuning out when one set"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1278.986,"endTime":1282.736,"body":"of the group was talking about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1282.736,"endTime":1285.511,"body":"their work not because They"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1282.736,"endTime":1285.511,"body":"didn't care because there was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1285.511,"endTime":1288.801,"body":"just too much to pay attention"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1285.511,"endTime":1288.801,"body":"to and so it became like this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1288.991,"endTime":1291.791,"body":"kind of natural mitosis of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1288.991,"endTime":1291.791,"body":"like, okay, we should, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1291.801,"endTime":1294.741,"body":"break these two teams apart"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1291.801,"endTime":1294.741,"body":"and break this team apart into"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1294.741,"endTime":1298.261,"body":"two teams, uh, a team that was"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1294.741,"endTime":1298.261,"body":"still full stack and focused"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1298.261,"endTime":1300.661,"body":"on product development, uh, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1298.261,"endTime":1300.661,"body":"a team that's focused on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1300.661,"endTime":1303.481,"body":"security research, the incoming"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1300.661,"endTime":1303.481,"body":"feed of vulnerabilities,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1303.501,"endTime":1304.711,"body":"and then also their tooling."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1304.941,"endTime":1305.701,"body":"And so that meant it's okay."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1305.701,"endTime":1307.261,"body":"It's not just like a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1305.701,"endTime":1307.261,"body":"task oriented team."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1307.261,"endTime":1308.021,"body":"It's also a team."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1308.271,"endTime":1310.731,"body":"That is doing engineering"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1308.271,"endTime":1310.731,"body":"and building the tooling that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1310.731,"endTime":1313.241,"body":"supports them, but still very"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1310.731,"endTime":1313.241,"body":"different tooling and very"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1313.241,"endTime":1315.171,"body":"different set of engineering"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1313.241,"endTime":1315.171,"body":"problems than what the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1315.171,"endTime":1316.131,"body":"engineering team is working on."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1316.211,"endTime":1317.801,"body":"Those two teams, they"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1316.211,"endTime":1317.801,"body":"still work together."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1317.841,"endTime":1319.131,"body":"There's another trade"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1317.841,"endTime":1319.131,"body":"off here, right?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1319.131,"endTime":1322.051,"body":"You're trading the ability"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1319.131,"endTime":1322.051,"body":"to have like deeper technical"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1322.051,"endTime":1325.541,"body":"expertise and singularly focus"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1322.051,"endTime":1325.541,"body":"in the two different areas for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1326.121,"endTime":1329.111,"body":"overhead and communication and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1326.121,"endTime":1329.111,"body":"like coordination when those"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1329.111,"endTime":1330.261,"body":"two teams need to work together."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1330.501,"endTime":1331.391,"body":"It just so happens that."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1331.856,"endTime":1333.706,"body":"That doesn't happen"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1331.856,"endTime":1333.706,"body":"quite that frequently."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1333.726,"endTime":1336.276,"body":"It happens when we try to go"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1333.726,"endTime":1336.276,"body":"to market with a new language."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1336.466,"endTime":1338.786,"body":"It happens when we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1336.466,"endTime":1338.786,"body":"make sure, like, the two teams"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1338.806,"endTime":1339.896,"body":"give each other feedback a lot."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1339.906,"endTime":1342.146,"body":"The researchers are,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1339.906,"endTime":1342.146,"body":"have also been our users"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1342.146,"endTime":1344.176,"body":"before, so they can give"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1342.146,"endTime":1344.176,"body":"feedback on the product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1344.176,"endTime":1345.956,"body":"But it, so we, we want to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1344.176,"endTime":1345.956,"body":"make sure there's still that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1345.956,"endTime":1347.136,"body":"line of communication open."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1347.136,"endTime":1348.746,"body":"We do a lot of social"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1347.136,"endTime":1348.746,"body":"events to make sure the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1348.746,"endTime":1349.756,"body":"two teams feel connected."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1349.876,"endTime":1352.216,"body":"We still do a lot of planning"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1349.876,"endTime":1352.216,"body":"together, but the two teams"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1352.216,"endTime":1354.196,"body":"should feel comfortable"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1352.216,"endTime":1354.196,"body":"operating independently and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1354.196,"endTime":1356.646,"body":"autonomously, knowing that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1354.196,"endTime":1356.646,"body":"they can really, like, work in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1356.646,"endTime":1358.266,"body":"their areas and stay focused."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1358.821,"endTime":1359.381,"body":"So, would"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1359.381,"endTime":1362.411,"body":"you think about this kind of,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1359.381,"endTime":1362.411,"body":"I'll say, first year of go to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1362.411,"endTime":1365.221,"body":"market with the product as a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1362.411,"endTime":1365.221,"body":"new phase where, like, we have a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1365.221,"endTime":1366.731,"body":"compressed build to build phase?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1367.311,"endTime":1369.431,"body":"That's seed round, you're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1367.311,"endTime":1369.431,"body":"getting things out and now"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1369.431,"endTime":1372.381,"body":"it's, you know, a scale"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1369.431,"endTime":1372.381,"body":"phase or, or where does"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1372.381,"endTime":1374.581,"body":"that transition change"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1372.381,"endTime":1374.581,"body":"for you as you talk about,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1374.751,"endTime":1375.641,"body":"like, the needs of the team"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1375.641,"endTime":1376.101,"body":"changing?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1376.161,"endTime":1376.581,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1376.611,"endTime":1378.251,"body":"Okay, so I think the,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1376.611,"endTime":1378.251,"body":"there's that early phase,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1378.251,"endTime":1379.311,"body":"the, the build to learn."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1379.321,"endTime":1379.921,"body":"Build to learn, yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1379.921,"endTime":1381.971,"body":"Then there's the next phase"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1379.921,"endTime":1381.971,"body":"which is like build to build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1382.001,"endTime":1385.121,"body":"and it's kind of a, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1382.001,"endTime":1385.121,"body":"it's kind of like a, a gray"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1385.121,"endTime":1387.521,"body":"area phase of like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1385.121,"endTime":1387.521,"body":"we're not investing too"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1387.521,"endTime":1390.121,"body":"heavily because we could go"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1387.521,"endTime":1390.121,"body":"to market and find that, we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1390.121,"endTime":1391.251,"body":"still kind of miss the mark."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1391.681,"endTime":1395.081,"body":"I found in my career that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1391.681,"endTime":1395.081,"body":"feedback given freely is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1395.081,"endTime":1397.471,"body":"very different than feedback"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1395.081,"endTime":1397.471,"body":"when people have to put their"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1397.471,"endTime":1398.361,"body":"money where their mouth is."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1398.891,"endTime":1401.651,"body":"Um, and so there just comes"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1398.891,"endTime":1401.651,"body":"a moment when the quality"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1401.651,"endTime":1404.021,"body":"of feedback gets much higher"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1401.651,"endTime":1404.021,"body":"because someone could say,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1404.021,"endTime":1406.311,"body":"yeah, this is useful, this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1404.021,"endTime":1406.311,"body":"is useful, this is useful,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1406.481,"endTime":1407.431,"body":"but it's not useful enough."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1407.521,"endTime":1409.191,"body":"And the stakes"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1407.521,"endTime":1409.191,"body":"of the feedback get higher too."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1409.241,"endTime":1409.791,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1409.984,"endTime":1412.034,"body":"and so we would start to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1409.984,"endTime":1412.034,"body":"frame things as like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1412.034,"endTime":1413.964,"body":"it's not just like, oh, what"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1412.034,"endTime":1413.964,"body":"does it need to be useful?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1414.574,"endTime":1417.934,"body":"How much more useful does"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1414.574,"endTime":1417.934,"body":"this need to get before it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1417.934,"endTime":1418.934,"body":"useful enough for you to buy?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1419.524,"endTime":1421.454,"body":"And then there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1419.524,"endTime":1421.454,"body":"questions like, at what cost?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1421.464,"endTime":1423.444,"body":"It's like, great, if it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1421.464,"endTime":1423.444,"body":"a dollar, would you buy it?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1423.454,"endTime":1425.144,"body":"It was like, well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1423.454,"endTime":1425.144,"body":"probably it's like, okay, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1425.154,"endTime":1427.324,"body":"like, what about at the price"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1425.154,"endTime":1427.324,"body":"in which it's at list price?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1427.324,"endTime":1429.924,"body":"It's like, okay, now we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1427.324,"endTime":1429.924,"body":"getting a sense of here is the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1429.924,"endTime":1432.174,"body":"edit distance from where we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1429.924,"endTime":1432.174,"body":"are, from where we want to be."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1432.264,"endTime":1435.584,"body":"And that meant that we kind"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1432.264,"endTime":1435.584,"body":"of enter this second phase of."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1435.854,"endTime":1439.114,"body":"Like, we're building to, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1435.854,"endTime":1439.114,"body":"building to build, we're like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1439.124,"endTime":1440.854,"body":"learning again very quickly."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1441.024,"endTime":1441.754,"body":"So the iteration"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1441.754,"endTime":1443.514,"body":"phase again, but"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1441.754,"endTime":1443.514,"body":"like a separate one."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1443.544,"endTime":1445.644,"body":"Right, and one"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1443.544,"endTime":1445.644,"body":"in which we're like keeping"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1445.644,"endTime":1448.324,"body":"a lot of buffer, because we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1445.644,"endTime":1448.324,"body":"realize that, like, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1448.324,"endTime":1451.194,"body":"gonna get feedback really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1448.324,"endTime":1451.194,"body":"quickly, and we, now that we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1451.194,"endTime":1454.364,"body":"are public, we can't build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1451.194,"endTime":1454.364,"body":"quite as scrappily anymore."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1454.644,"endTime":1456.284,"body":"When we make a commitment"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1454.644,"endTime":1456.284,"body":"to a customer and say, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1456.284,"endTime":1458.304,"body":"we're going to be able to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1456.284,"endTime":1458.304,"body":"build this thing to be able to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1458.304,"endTime":1460.494,"body":"enable this workflow, which we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1458.304,"endTime":1460.494,"body":"believe is really important."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1460.724,"endTime":1461.714,"body":"The workflow needs to work."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1461.744,"endTime":1463.134,"body":"People start to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1461.744,"endTime":1463.134,"body":"have expectations."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1463.334,"endTime":1464.864,"body":"There's a contractual"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1463.334,"endTime":1464.864,"body":"obligation."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1465.034,"endTime":1467.137,"body":"Even from like a, from like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1465.034,"endTime":1467.137,"body":"a values perspective, like."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1467.667,"endTime":1469.327,"body":"People are now"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1467.667,"endTime":1469.327,"body":"investing their time."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1469.557,"endTime":1472.437,"body":"They're expecting you to like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1469.557,"endTime":1472.437,"body":"help make their lives easier."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1472.667,"endTime":1474.707,"body":"And if it's ends up just"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1472.667,"endTime":1474.707,"body":"kind of being fluff and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1474.707,"endTime":1476.947,"body":"they spend all their time,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1474.707,"endTime":1476.947,"body":"just like waiting for your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1476.947,"endTime":1480.127,"body":"product to fix because it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1476.947,"endTime":1480.127,"body":"constantly broken, like that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1480.127,"endTime":1481.297,"body":"doesn't give them any value."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1481.347,"endTime":1482.717,"body":"Like the reliability"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1481.347,"endTime":1482.717,"body":"must be there."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1482.717,"endTime":1484.417,"body":"The performance must be"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1482.717,"endTime":1484.417,"body":"there to make it usable."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1484.667,"endTime":1486.472,"body":"And so the next phase is like."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1486.632,"endTime":1489.332,"body":"Still trying to keep iteration"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1486.632,"endTime":1489.332,"body":"high, but trying to focus"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1489.332,"endTime":1492.112,"body":"on a narrower set of things"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1489.332,"endTime":1492.112,"body":"that really provide value"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1492.112,"endTime":1494.752,"body":"to the customer and making"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1492.112,"endTime":1494.752,"body":"those things more important."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1495.032,"endTime":1497.222,"body":"We went to market with like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1495.032,"endTime":1497.222,"body":"a, kind of like a broader"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1497.222,"endTime":1500.472,"body":"set of ideas, uh, than we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1497.222,"endTime":1500.472,"body":"thought we would, uh, like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1500.472,"endTime":1501.622,"body":"really double down on."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1501.682,"endTime":1502.812,"body":"And that, that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1501.682,"endTime":1502.812,"body":"ended up being true."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1502.812,"endTime":1503.122,"body":"We like."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1503.582,"endTime":1505.852,"body":"Ended up sunsetting some"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1503.582,"endTime":1505.852,"body":"features that weren't as useful"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1505.892,"endTime":1508.502,"body":"and instead doubling down on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1505.892,"endTime":1508.502,"body":"the things that were useful."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1508.532,"endTime":1510.752,"body":"And then we ended up realizing,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1508.532,"endTime":1510.752,"body":"great, now there's these"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1510.782,"endTime":1513.102,"body":"other domains we want to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1510.782,"endTime":1513.102,"body":"explore because we realized"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1513.102,"endTime":1514.992,"body":"like, Hey, we can really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1513.102,"endTime":1514.992,"body":"unlock something if we can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1514.992,"endTime":1516.662,"body":"do this and the other thing."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1516.852,"endTime":1518.812,"body":"We realized like, Hey, we can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1516.852,"endTime":1518.812,"body":"get into license compliance."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1518.812,"endTime":1521.342,"body":"Like a key stakeholder in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1518.812,"endTime":1521.342,"body":"supply chain security is the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1521.342,"endTime":1524.062,"body":"legal team saying you can't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1521.342,"endTime":1524.062,"body":"use a dependency that has a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1524.062,"endTime":1525.362,"body":"really restrictive license."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1525.532,"endTime":1527.762,"body":"Um, so we said like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1525.532,"endTime":1527.762,"body":"a lot of companies were like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1527.772,"endTime":1529.062,"body":"we want reachability analysis."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1529.062,"endTime":1530.332,"body":"We want this product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1530.707,"endTime":1532.767,"body":"But if it can't do this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1530.707,"endTime":1532.767,"body":"other thing, we can't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1532.777,"endTime":1533.857,"body":"have the product we want."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1534.137,"endTime":1537.507,"body":"So being able to offer an"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1534.137,"endTime":1537.507,"body":"investment there allowed people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1537.507,"endTime":1539.757,"body":"to unlock and be able to use the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1537.507,"endTime":1539.757,"body":"tool they really cared about."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1539.967,"endTime":1542.367,"body":"So is the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1539.967,"endTime":1542.367,"body":"next phase or the current"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1542.367,"endTime":1545.562,"body":"phase now this, platform"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1542.367,"endTime":1545.562,"body":"realignment where you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1545.562,"endTime":1546.612,"body":"bring the two products together."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1546.822,"endTime":1547.332,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1547.332,"endTime":1549.432,"body":"And it's funny, we're doing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1547.332,"endTime":1549.432,"body":"this as sort of acrobatics,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1549.432,"endTime":1551.382,"body":"we're doing this well also"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1549.432,"endTime":1551.382,"body":"launching a third product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1551.382,"endTime":1554.922,"body":"So we released , we released"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1551.382,"endTime":1554.922,"body":"the Beta of secrets, subgroup"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1554.922,"endTime":1557.232,"body":"Secrets a few weeks ago,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1554.922,"endTime":1557.232,"body":"which is, uh, secrets, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1557.262,"endTime":1559.812,"body":"scanning product that also"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1557.262,"endTime":1559.812,"body":"does secrets validation."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1559.817,"endTime":1562.992,"body":"So it all scan secrets and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1559.817,"endTime":1562.992,"body":"find, uh, like go query, the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1562.992,"endTime":1564.972,"body":"API the secret is supposed to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1562.992,"endTime":1564.972,"body":"belong to, to see like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1564.972,"endTime":1566.172,"body":"is the secret still live again?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1566.172,"endTime":1567.432,"body":"Trying to cut down on the noise."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1567.582,"endTime":1568.932,"body":"Help you prioritize"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1567.582,"endTime":1568.932,"body":"the secrets that are."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1573.107,"endTime":1575.677,"body":"So we're trying to do this kind"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1573.107,"endTime":1575.677,"body":"of acrobatic thing where, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1575.677,"endTime":1577.997,"body":"we're going to market with a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1575.677,"endTime":1577.997,"body":"new product, we really want to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1577.997,"endTime":1580.847,"body":"encourage them in their build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1577.997,"endTime":1580.847,"body":"to learn phase, and now sort of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1580.847,"endTime":1583.417,"body":"the build to build phase, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1580.847,"endTime":1583.417,"body":"not over investing and trying to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1583.417,"endTime":1585.457,"body":"figure out, okay, what are the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1583.417,"endTime":1585.457,"body":"parts of the product that will"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1585.457,"endTime":1587.937,"body":"survive, first contact, what"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1585.457,"endTime":1587.937,"body":"are the parts of the product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1588.067,"endTime":1590.307,"body":"you don't even know are useful"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1588.067,"endTime":1590.307,"body":"until you get that, uh, that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1590.307,"endTime":1592.577,"body":"feedback, what are the parts"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1590.307,"endTime":1592.577,"body":"we're going to sunset, and we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1592.637,"endTime":1595.157,"body":"also taking the supply chain"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1592.637,"endTime":1595.157,"body":"product and saying, okay, what"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1595.177,"endTime":1597.867,"body":"I think for an example, we, we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1595.177,"endTime":1597.867,"body":"built like a totally separate"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1597.887,"endTime":1600.957,"body":"findings workflow for supply"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1597.887,"endTime":1600.957,"body":"chain from the semgrep code."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1601.227,"endTime":1604.077,"body":"We thought to ourselves, um,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1601.227,"endTime":1604.077,"body":"like first of all, we don't"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1604.077,"endTime":1606.837,"body":"want to cause any outages on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1604.077,"endTime":1606.837,"body":"the existing findings pages"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1606.867,"endTime":1609.547,"body":"where most of our, like, AppSec"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1606.867,"endTime":1609.547,"body":"people spend their time going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1609.547,"endTime":1610.527,"body":"through the list of findings."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1610.797,"endTime":1613.157,"body":"But we also thought like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1610.797,"endTime":1613.157,"body":"a supply chain finding"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1613.157,"endTime":1616.087,"body":"is just a very different"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1613.157,"endTime":1616.087,"body":"beast than a code finding."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1616.377,"endTime":1619.347,"body":"We're now realizing they are,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1616.377,"endTime":1619.347,"body":"but there are ways in which we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1619.347,"endTime":1621.557,"body":"can support this in a single"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1619.347,"endTime":1621.557,"body":"workflow where customers will"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1621.757,"endTime":1624.667,"body":"get a lot of value not having"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1621.757,"endTime":1624.667,"body":"to like, Change between pages"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1624.907,"endTime":1627.787,"body":"where we can do prioritization"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1624.907,"endTime":1627.787,"body":"across multiple product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1627.787,"endTime":1630.087,"body":"lines by just having those"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1627.787,"endTime":1630.087,"body":"workflows tied together."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1630.367,"endTime":1631.997,"body":"Um, and so we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1630.367,"endTime":1631.997,"body":"figure out a way to like, how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1631.997,"endTime":1636.007,"body":"can we support the, this like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1631.997,"endTime":1636.007,"body":"new iteration while also making"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1636.007,"endTime":1637.297,"body":"the product just more usable."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1637.867,"endTime":1639.777,"body":"People get more value out of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1637.867,"endTime":1639.777,"body":"it and then figuring out ways"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1639.777,"endTime":1643.047,"body":"to like also narrow the scope"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1639.777,"endTime":1643.047,"body":"of the team so that there"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1643.047,"endTime":1645.877,"body":"can be a platform team that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1643.047,"endTime":1645.877,"body":"can like build out, uh, like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1646.087,"endTime":1649.007,"body":"provide these APIs, uh, so"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1646.087,"endTime":1649.007,"body":"that the, each of the product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1649.007,"endTime":1651.877,"body":"teams can focus on like what"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1649.007,"endTime":1651.877,"body":"is their core differentiator."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1652.292,"endTime":1653.162,"body":"Adam, I love how"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1653.212,"endTime":1654.492,"body":"passionate you are about this."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1654.492,"endTime":1657.322,"body":"I can hear your affinity"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1654.492,"endTime":1657.322,"body":"for organizational design"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1657.322,"endTime":1658.932,"body":"and psychology kind of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1657.322,"endTime":1658.932,"body":"coming through here."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1658.932,"endTime":1661.392,"body":"And, uh, I love that you're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1658.932,"endTime":1661.392,"body":"thinking about this in a phased"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1661.392,"endTime":1663.852,"body":"approach because it's very clear"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1661.392,"endTime":1663.852,"body":"you really care about this."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1664.112,"endTime":1667.172,"body":"What has the process of this"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1664.112,"endTime":1667.172,"body":"last 18 months, two years"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1667.172,"endTime":1672.312,"body":"almost, taught you about the org"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1667.172,"endTime":1672.312,"body":"design that you need to do to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1672.322,"endTime":1673.852,"body":"successfully take this approach?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1674.042,"endTime":1675.992,"body":"Yeah, you said I'm"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1674.042,"endTime":1675.992,"body":"really passionate about this."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1676.022,"endTime":1677.052,"body":"I think I really am."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1677.192,"endTime":1679.472,"body":"It stems back from my undergrad"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1677.192,"endTime":1679.472,"body":"degrees in philosophy."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1679.512,"endTime":1680.793,"body":"I love taking But, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1679.512,"endTime":1680.793,"body":"know, it's just really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1680.793,"endTime":1681.662,"body":"great to be able to dive"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1680.793,"endTime":1681.662,"body":"into the theory, taking"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1681.662,"endTime":1683.652,"body":"like a principled approach"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1681.662,"endTime":1683.652,"body":"to some of these problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1683.922,"endTime":1686.762,"body":"But I also have had a lot"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1683.922,"endTime":1686.762,"body":"of practical experience here"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1686.802,"endTime":1688.922,"body":"and failed as we said in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1686.802,"endTime":1688.922,"body":"the beginning, failed a lot."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1689.022,"endTime":1689.342,"body":"Failure is an"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1689.612,"endTime":1690.032,"body":"amazing"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1690.032,"endTime":1690.652,"body":"learning experience."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1690.812,"endTime":1691.332,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1691.352,"endTime":1694.072,"body":"And like failing quickly, I"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1691.352,"endTime":1694.072,"body":"feel like again, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1694.072,"endTime":1696.612,"body":"in product development or in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1694.072,"endTime":1696.612,"body":"leadership, failing quickly"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1696.622,"endTime":1697.752,"body":"ends up being really important."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1698.079,"endTime":1700.93,"body":"As we're thinking about evolving"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1698.079,"endTime":1700.93,"body":"to this next phase, I think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1700.93,"endTime":1703.09,"body":"when you're in this early"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1700.93,"endTime":1703.09,"body":"stage of a startup, you're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1703.09,"endTime":1705.29,"body":"able to trust your gut so much."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1705.434,"endTime":1707.034,"body":"and I think one of the pieces"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1705.434,"endTime":1707.034,"body":"of development for me is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1707.034,"endTime":1709.764,"body":"like, I could trust my gut"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1707.034,"endTime":1709.764,"body":"because I would deep dive"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1709.774,"endTime":1711.324,"body":"into every piece of context."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1711.534,"endTime":1715.444,"body":"I feel like I really knew what"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1711.534,"endTime":1715.444,"body":"was going on and could then"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1715.454,"endTime":1718.114,"body":"like, allow like the synthesis"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1715.454,"endTime":1718.114,"body":"to happen in my own brain"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1718.114,"endTime":1720.364,"body":"and then help other people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1718.114,"endTime":1720.364,"body":"understand that synthesis."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1720.609,"endTime":1722.609,"body":"this next phase, which is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1720.609,"endTime":1722.609,"body":"interesting, is like, hey, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1722.609,"endTime":1725.649,"body":"gonna try to tackle a lot, a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1722.609,"endTime":1725.649,"body":"lot more big, hard problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1725.869,"endTime":1729.679,"body":"and I think the evolution for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1725.869,"endTime":1729.679,"body":"us in this organization is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1729.719,"endTime":1732.489,"body":"helping other people learn"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1729.719,"endTime":1732.489,"body":"how to trust their guts to."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1732.489,"endTime":1734.759,"body":"It's like, it's not my, it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1732.489,"endTime":1734.759,"body":"not my job, it can't be my"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1734.759,"endTime":1738.129,"body":"job as the product director"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1734.759,"endTime":1738.129,"body":"to help, to like, be in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1738.379,"endTime":1740.689,"body":"every single piece of context"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1738.379,"endTime":1740.689,"body":"to make these decisions."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1741.012,"endTime":1742.942,"body":"instead I feel like my job, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1741.012,"endTime":1742.942,"body":"this is something I get really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1742.942,"endTime":1745.502,"body":"excited about, is helping other"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1742.942,"endTime":1745.502,"body":"people build these frameworks,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1745.652,"endTime":1748.862,"body":"helping other people fail fast"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1745.652,"endTime":1748.862,"body":"so that they can build up their,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1748.902,"endTime":1751.382,"body":"uh, context, they can build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1748.902,"endTime":1751.382,"body":"up their gut, they can, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1751.392,"endTime":1754.362,"body":"really try to find the right"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1751.392,"endTime":1754.362,"body":"balance as they move through"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1754.362,"endTime":1755.382,"body":"these different cycles too."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1755.982,"endTime":1756.752,"body":"How do you help"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1756.752,"endTime":1757.842,"body":"other people fail fast, to your"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1757.842,"endTime":1758.142,"body":"point?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1758.532,"endTime":1760.492,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1758.532,"endTime":1760.492,"body":"part of this is, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1760.492,"endTime":1763.417,"body":"I got really lucky and I had"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1760.492,"endTime":1763.417,"body":"leaders who like Pushed me"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1763.417,"endTime":1766.327,"body":"to move faster, uh, than,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1763.417,"endTime":1766.327,"body":"than I felt comfortable with."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1766.357,"endTime":1768.067,"body":"And then realize that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1766.357,"endTime":1768.067,"body":"like, hey, this is good."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1768.097,"endTime":1768.967,"body":"Moving fast is good."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1768.967,"endTime":1769.897,"body":"Speed in is quality."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1769.897,"endTime":1770.467,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1770.595,"endTime":1772.551,"body":"and so one of the key frameworks"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1770.595,"endTime":1772.551,"body":"I get, like I just find"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1772.551,"endTime":1774.891,"body":"myself like repeating myself"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1772.551,"endTime":1774.891,"body":"over and over and over, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1774.921,"endTime":1778.131,"body":"because like it's not, there"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1774.921,"endTime":1778.131,"body":"is no like key technique."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1778.341,"endTime":1780.621,"body":"There is no like silver bullet"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1778.341,"endTime":1780.621,"body":"that solves this problem."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1780.801,"endTime":1782.451,"body":"It's just about like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1780.801,"endTime":1782.451,"body":"taking a step back."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1782.776,"endTime":1784.576,"body":"And like questioning"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1782.776,"endTime":1784.576,"body":"your assumptions."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1784.736,"endTime":1786.856,"body":"So I think about this like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1784.736,"endTime":1786.856,"body":"grid constantly, which is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1786.856,"endTime":1790.466,"body":"like the, on one axis is how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1786.856,"endTime":1790.466,"body":"likely you are to be wrong."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1790.586,"endTime":1792.686,"body":"And on the other axis is how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1790.586,"endTime":1792.686,"body":"bad it would be if you were"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1792.686,"endTime":1798.396,"body":"wrong and where the dots are"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1792.686,"endTime":1798.396,"body":"is like, like the scale of risk"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1798.466,"endTime":1799.515,"body":"that each assumption brings."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1799.716,"endTime":1801.555,"body":"And so people will often"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1799.716,"endTime":1801.555,"body":"say like, well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1801.566,"endTime":1804.385,"body":"you want to figure out an"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1801.566,"endTime":1804.385,"body":"experiment to validate your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1804.526,"endTime":1806.696,"body":"riskiest assumption, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1804.526,"endTime":1806.696,"body":"like quantifying what, how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1806.696,"endTime":1807.616,"body":"riskiest is kind of hard."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1807.616,"endTime":1809.036,"body":"So I think I often help people."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1809.036,"endTime":1809.256,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1809.641,"endTime":1810.641,"body":"Tell me your assumptions."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1810.831,"endTime":1812.431,"body":"How likely do you think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1810.831,"endTime":1812.431,"body":"you're wrong about these?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1812.591,"endTime":1814.641,"body":"How bad would it be if"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1812.591,"endTime":1814.641,"body":"you're wrong about this?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1814.801,"endTime":1819.901,"body":"How can you build something"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1814.801,"endTime":1819.901,"body":"in a week, a day, an hour?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1819.91,"endTime":1823.231,"body":"How can you not build something"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1819.91,"endTime":1823.231,"body":"to go decrease the risk that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1823.231,"endTime":1825.191,"body":"you'd be wrong or decrease how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1823.231,"endTime":1825.191,"body":"bad it would be that you're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1825.191,"endTime":1828.431,"body":"wrong or prove that you are"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1825.191,"endTime":1828.431,"body":"and be able to like pivot as"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1828.431,"endTime":1829.571,"body":"quickly as you possibly can?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1829.941,"endTime":1832.541,"body":"these kinds of frameworks"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1829.941,"endTime":1832.541,"body":"help people like kind of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1834.796,"endTime":1837.536,"body":"They help people like, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1834.796,"endTime":1837.536,"body":"question their own assumptions,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1837.607,"endTime":1839.787,"body":"then they can like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1837.607,"endTime":1839.787,"body":"you know, my first, a lot"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1839.787,"endTime":1841.227,"body":"of people's first instinct"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1839.787,"endTime":1841.227,"body":"is great, I'm gonna go spend"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1841.227,"endTime":1842.177,"body":"a week building something."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1842.427,"endTime":1844.507,"body":"It's like, okay, how can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1842.427,"endTime":1844.507,"body":"we decrease the risk?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1844.517,"endTime":1846.337,"body":"Cause if you're wrong and you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1844.517,"endTime":1846.337,"body":"just spent a week building"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1846.337,"endTime":1847.277,"body":"something, that's a lot of time."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1847.772,"endTime":1849.792,"body":"What can we do in an hour"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1847.772,"endTime":1849.792,"body":"to give you a little more"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1849.792,"endTime":1852.642,"body":"confidence that you're right"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1849.792,"endTime":1852.642,"body":"to make investing in that week"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1852.742,"endTime":1853.972,"body":"a little bit more worthwhile?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1854.372,"endTime":1857.122,"body":"So that fast"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1854.372,"endTime":1857.122,"body":"feedback and iteration cycle"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1857.162,"endTime":1859.662,"body":"is obviously something that's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1857.162,"endTime":1859.662,"body":"like an important concept in"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1859.672,"endTime":1861.392,"body":"Agile development, software"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1859.672,"endTime":1861.392,"body":"engineering in general, and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1861.392,"endTime":1863.832,"body":"it's very clear that it's an"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1861.392,"endTime":1863.832,"body":"important concept in product"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1863.832,"endTime":1865.192,"body":"design and product iteration."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1865.272,"endTime":1867.602,"body":"What are the other key"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1865.272,"endTime":1867.602,"body":"insights that you would draw"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1867.602,"endTime":1870.022,"body":"from this experience or your"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1867.602,"endTime":1870.022,"body":"past experiences that you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1870.022,"endTime":1871.702,"body":"would say, Hey, engineering"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1870.022,"endTime":1871.702,"body":"leader listening, product"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1871.742,"endTime":1874.682,"body":"leader listening, this is how"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1871.742,"endTime":1874.682,"body":"you should think about this."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1875.062,"endTime":1875.322,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1875.322,"endTime":1878.372,"body":"I think the other thing I talk"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1875.322,"endTime":1878.372,"body":"about this, this talk to is,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1878.605,"endTime":1879.805,"body":"everything is a trade off."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1879.972,"endTime":1883.007,"body":"There is this feeling that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1879.972,"endTime":1883.007,"body":"I have, sometimes people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1883.007,"endTime":1885.287,"body":"have sometimes that like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1883.007,"endTime":1885.287,"body":"okay, we're gonna be able"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1885.287,"endTime":1887.777,"body":"to do the right thing and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1885.287,"endTime":1887.777,"body":"it's gonna satisfy us today."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1887.777,"endTime":1888.977,"body":"It's gonna satisfy us tomorrow."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1888.977,"endTime":1890.417,"body":"It's gonna satisfy"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1888.977,"endTime":1890.417,"body":"us a year from now."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1890.597,"endTime":1893.477,"body":"I think the important thing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1890.597,"endTime":1893.477,"body":"is to be eyes wide open to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1893.477,"endTime":1896.177,"body":"the idea that you are making"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1893.477,"endTime":1896.177,"body":"trade-offs in real time."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1896.297,"endTime":1896.447,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1896.537,"endTime":1899.177,"body":"And to be intentional about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1896.537,"endTime":1899.177,"body":"the trade-offs that you make."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1899.577,"endTime":1902.187,"body":"Um, in the early phase, we've"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1899.577,"endTime":1902.187,"body":"talked, I talked about this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1902.187,"endTime":1905.517,"body":"earlier, like, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1902.187,"endTime":1905.517,"body":"don't get a product that can get"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1905.517,"endTime":1907.587,"body":"to market, if you don't get a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1905.517,"endTime":1907.587,"body":"product that gets traction, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1907.592,"endTime":1909.887,"body":"don't get to have scale, but."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1910.392,"endTime":1914.052,"body":"If you, uh, don't make those,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1910.392,"endTime":1914.052,"body":"but if you make those decisions"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1914.062,"endTime":1916.442,"body":"to get you to market quickly,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1914.062,"endTime":1916.442,"body":"you are going to run into"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1916.442,"endTime":1917.422,"body":"those scale problems later."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1917.572,"endTime":1920.152,"body":"So don't bury your head in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1917.572,"endTime":1920.152,"body":"the sand and say like, we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1920.152,"endTime":1920.772,"body":"going to build a product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1920.772,"endTime":1922.472,"body":"It's going to be, get us"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1920.772,"endTime":1922.472,"body":"to mark quickly and then"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1922.472,"endTime":1923.472,"body":"it's going to be perfect."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1923.562,"endTime":1924.772,"body":"That's how"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1923.562,"endTime":1924.772,"body":"we never put your MVP out."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1924.832,"endTime":1925.212,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1925.282,"endTime":1927.382,"body":"It was like, uh, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1925.282,"endTime":1927.382,"body":"you just decide we're going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1927.382,"endTime":1929.002,"body":"to build this and then we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1927.382,"endTime":1929.002,"body":"going to walk away from it"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1929.002,"endTime":1931.722,"body":"and expect everything to be"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1929.002,"endTime":1931.722,"body":"fine, that's not going to work."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1931.772,"endTime":1934.112,"body":"So one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1931.772,"endTime":1934.112,"body":"talk about with people is I"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1934.112,"endTime":1936.612,"body":"don't mean exit strategy as"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1934.112,"endTime":1936.612,"body":"in like how to walk away."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1936.612,"endTime":1938.722,"body":"I mean like think about your"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1936.612,"endTime":1938.722,"body":"exit strategy as in how to."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1939.262,"endTime":1941.512,"body":"Exit from your current"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1939.262,"endTime":1941.512,"body":"set of assumptions, how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1941.512,"endTime":1943.612,"body":"to make that transition"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1941.512,"endTime":1943.612,"body":"to the next set of things."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1943.612,"endTime":1945.412,"body":"And sometimes it means like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1943.612,"endTime":1945.412,"body":"Hey, you are not the right"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1945.412,"endTime":1947.692,"body":"leader to take this, the next"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1945.412,"endTime":1947.692,"body":"phase because you love going"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1947.692,"endTime":1950.422,"body":"zero to one and this now"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1947.692,"endTime":1950.422,"body":"needs to go one to a thousand"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1950.422,"endTime":1951.562,"body":"or a thousand to a million."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1951.622,"endTime":1951.742,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1951.747,"endTime":1954.702,"body":"It's like, okay, how do you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1951.747,"endTime":1954.702,"body":"then, you know, elevate someone"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1954.702,"endTime":1957.102,"body":"else or bring in someone"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1954.702,"endTime":1957.102,"body":"else who can help with that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1957.102,"endTime":1959.832,"body":"next phase and then you can"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1957.102,"endTime":1959.832,"body":"go do what you love to do."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1960.142,"endTime":1961.682,"body":"But I also think about like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1960.142,"endTime":1961.682,"body":"okay, how do you prepare"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1961.682,"endTime":1962.982,"body":"yourself for that transition?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1963.152,"endTime":1965.442,"body":"How do you help the team"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1963.152,"endTime":1965.442,"body":"shift its mindset to go"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1965.442,"endTime":1967.712,"body":"from, Hey, we're no longer"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1965.442,"endTime":1967.712,"body":"just building to learn."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1967.912,"endTime":1969.322,"body":"We accumulated tech debt."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1969.562,"endTime":1970.842,"body":"We are now like excited."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1970.842,"endTime":1972.752,"body":"We get to solve these"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1970.842,"endTime":1972.752,"body":"different set of problems."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1972.752,"endTime":1973.962,"body":"People are using the product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1974.142,"endTime":1975.302,"body":"People are loving the product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1975.342,"endTime":1978.172,"body":"Let's like help people use and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":1975.342,"endTime":1978.172,"body":"continue to love the product."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1978.682,"endTime":1978.982,"body":"Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1978.982,"endTime":1981.242,"body":"brought up this idea of looking"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1978.982,"endTime":1981.242,"body":"around corners earlier, and I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1981.252,"endTime":1983.582,"body":"think it's a really important"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1981.252,"endTime":1983.582,"body":"leadership trait, particularly"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1983.582,"endTime":1986.142,"body":"when you're starting something"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1983.582,"endTime":1986.142,"body":"new, and the help that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1986.142,"endTime":1989.312,"body":"you clearly got from your"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1986.142,"endTime":1989.312,"body":"leadership around, hey, here"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1989.312,"endTime":1992.212,"body":"are things that we've seen,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1989.312,"endTime":1992.212,"body":"uh, I can, I can tell you've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1992.212,"endTime":1993.622,"body":"spent time thinking about that."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1994.022,"endTime":1996.962,"body":"Are there pitfalls that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1994.022,"endTime":1996.962,"body":"you would say, hey, be"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1996.962,"endTime":1999.392,"body":"aware of this, or we had to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1996.962,"endTime":1999.392,"body":"avoid this, that you would"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1999.392,"endTime":2000.472,"body":"maybe highlight as well?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2001.032,"endTime":2002.342,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2001.032,"endTime":2002.342,"body":"that's an interesting one."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2002.342,"endTime":2006.227,"body":"I think the The pitfalls"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2002.342,"endTime":2006.227,"body":"that we've run into I think"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2006.227,"endTime":2009.317,"body":"have been really about being"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2006.227,"endTime":2009.317,"body":"too singularly focused."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2009.327,"endTime":2012.197,"body":"I think like and there are"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2009.327,"endTime":2012.197,"body":"times where we didn't adjust"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2012.197,"endTime":2013.707,"body":"as well back to the platform."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2014.057,"endTime":2017.757,"body":"I think if we could have made"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2014.057,"endTime":2017.757,"body":"some key investments and like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2017.757,"endTime":2021.022,"body":"started to set ourselves up for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2017.757,"endTime":2021.022,"body":"that transition back, Earlier"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2021.052,"endTime":2021.772,"body":"that would've been useful."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2021.772,"endTime":2024.592,"body":"But I also think like, hey, it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2021.772,"endTime":2024.592,"body":"easy to say that in retrospect."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2024.712,"endTime":2024.832,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2024.862,"endTime":2027.802,"body":"Um, it's really hard to know,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2024.862,"endTime":2027.802,"body":"you know, it's like when you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2027.802,"endTime":2029.962,"body":"know, if you're gonna try to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2027.802,"endTime":2029.962,"body":"time stocks, like how do you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2029.967,"endTime":2031.132,"body":"know what's gonna happen?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2031.137,"endTime":2034.462,"body":"It's really hard to know whether"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2031.137,"endTime":2034.462,"body":"you're at the peak of the time"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2034.467,"endTime":2036.952,"body":"where it's like the best time"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2034.467,"endTime":2036.952,"body":"possible to start transitioning"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2036.952,"endTime":2038.422,"body":"to a platform versus not."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2038.452,"endTime":2040.789,"body":"I think the, the other thing to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2038.452,"endTime":2040.789,"body":"think about is like, when you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2040.789,"endTime":2042.949,"body":"go from a one product company"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2040.789,"endTime":2042.949,"body":"to a two product company."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2043.459,"endTime":2045.959,"body":"There's a real question"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2043.459,"endTime":2045.959,"body":"of like identity of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2045.969,"endTime":2047.039,"body":"the company at stake."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2047.319,"endTime":2049.289,"body":"For a really long time"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2047.319,"endTime":2049.289,"body":"the company has really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2049.289,"endTime":2053.039,"body":"thought of itself as this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2049.289,"endTime":2053.039,"body":"one key core product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2053.079,"endTime":2055.209,"body":"This was true at Semgrep where"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2053.079,"endTime":2055.209,"body":"like the product was Semgrep"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2055.229,"endTime":2057.979,"body":"for a really long time and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2055.229,"endTime":2057.979,"body":"people identified as Semgrep."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2058.259,"endTime":2061.869,"body":"When we, uh, transitioned the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2058.259,"endTime":2061.869,"body":"team, when we transitioned"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2061.869,"endTime":2065.049,"body":"the company to a two product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2061.869,"endTime":2065.049,"body":"company, I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2065.049,"endTime":2067.709,"body":"folks felt like, okay, 90"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2065.049,"endTime":2067.709,"body":"percent of the company is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2067.789,"endTime":2069.569,"body":"focusing on Semgrep code."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2069.869,"endTime":2072.349,"body":"And then there's also this"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2069.869,"endTime":2072.349,"body":"team that's focusing on supply"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2072.349,"endTime":2076.069,"body":"chain and we really had to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2072.349,"endTime":2076.069,"body":"work hard to shift the identity"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2076.069,"endTime":2078.229,"body":"of the company to say, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2076.069,"endTime":2078.229,"body":"we are a platform company."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2078.229,"endTime":2079.459,"body":"We have multiple products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2079.709,"endTime":2082.209,"body":"We should all identify"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2079.709,"endTime":2082.209,"body":"with all of these products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2082.319,"endTime":2084.519,"body":"We should feel an affinity"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2082.319,"endTime":2084.519,"body":"towards everything."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2084.559,"endTime":2088.079,"body":"And, and it seems like semantic,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2084.559,"endTime":2088.079,"body":"but it matters so much in like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2088.179,"endTime":2090.488,"body":"every little decision that is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2088.179,"endTime":2090.488,"body":"made, whether it's like how"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2090.489,"endTime":2093.889,"body":"we choose to market the brand"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2090.489,"endTime":2093.889,"body":"or the company, what we do in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2093.889,"endTime":2096.119,"body":"our, like, you know, in our,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2093.889,"endTime":2096.119,"body":"in our go to market, how our"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2096.149,"endTime":2099.469,"body":"sales team pitches the different"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2096.149,"endTime":2099.469,"body":"products, what they lead with."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2099.844,"endTime":2102.314,"body":"Um, you know, being willing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2099.844,"endTime":2102.314,"body":"to lead with either product."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2102.464,"endTime":2105.834,"body":"Um, and then also, like, in"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2102.464,"endTime":2105.834,"body":"the technical decision making,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2106.114,"endTime":2108.984,"body":"when your platform team is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2106.114,"endTime":2108.984,"body":"thinking about what are they"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2108.984,"endTime":2112.594,"body":"gonna support, uh, what are the,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2108.984,"endTime":2112.594,"body":"like, use cases that they wanna"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2112.594,"endTime":2114.514,"body":"make sure that, like, the golden"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2112.594,"endTime":2114.514,"body":"path that's, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2114.514,"endTime":2117.274,"body":"gonna be reliable, gonna be"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2114.514,"endTime":2117.274,"body":"stable, like, are they getting"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2117.314,"endTime":2120.149,"body":"inputs from Both products, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2117.314,"endTime":2120.149,"body":"it makes sense at the beginning,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2120.149,"endTime":2122.809,"body":"like, okay, if the new product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2120.149,"endTime":2122.809,"body":"is much smaller in terms of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2122.809,"endTime":2125.899,"body":"revenue, obviously you want to"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2122.809,"endTime":2125.899,"body":"focus on, uh, the product that's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2125.899,"endTime":2126.649,"body":"bringing in all the revenue."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2126.659,"endTime":2128.719,"body":"We quickly got to a point"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2126.659,"endTime":2128.719,"body":"where we were kind of like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2128.779,"endTime":2131.129,"body":"co equal products in terms"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2128.779,"endTime":2131.129,"body":"of go to market and revenue."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2131.349,"endTime":2133.609,"body":"And so it took us a little"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2131.349,"endTime":2133.609,"body":"bit of time to, like, make"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2133.609,"endTime":2134.289,"body":"that transition happen."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2134.289,"endTime":2135.739,"body":"I think we're still making"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2134.289,"endTime":2135.739,"body":"that transition happen."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2136.084,"endTime":2139.354,"body":"Where the, the teams really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2136.084,"endTime":2139.354,"body":"take both products into account."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2139.514,"endTime":2141.824,"body":"I think now that we're moving"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2139.514,"endTime":2141.824,"body":"actually into a third product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2141.864,"endTime":2143.794,"body":"as well, I think this is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2141.864,"endTime":2143.794,"body":"getting a little bit easier."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2143.874,"endTime":2145.714,"body":"Where people really recognize,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2143.874,"endTime":2145.714,"body":"Hey, SemGrup is a place"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2145.714,"endTime":2147.144,"body":"where we build products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2147.324,"endTime":2148.644,"body":"Like with an S, the plural."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2148.744,"endTime":2151.044,"body":"and now we really think about,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2148.744,"endTime":2151.044,"body":"Hey, if we're gonna build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2151.299,"endTime":2152.679,"body":"Underlying infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2152.709,"endTime":2155.349,"body":"If we're gonna build a marketing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2152.709,"endTime":2155.349,"body":"pitch, if we're gonna, uh,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2155.439,"endTime":2158.109,"body":"figure out like how our sales"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2155.439,"endTime":2158.109,"body":"team talks about our products,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2158.229,"endTime":2159.639,"body":"we're gonna talk about the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2158.229,"endTime":2159.639,"body":"platform, we're gonna talk"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2159.639,"endTime":2160.569,"body":"about all the products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2161.109,"endTime":2164.559,"body":"is a tool that is multifaceted"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2161.109,"endTime":2164.559,"body":"and can do many, many things."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2164.619,"endTime":2165.699,"body":"What was"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2164.619,"endTime":2165.699,"body":"the approach you took"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2165.704,"endTime":2168.729,"body":"to build that identity"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2165.704,"endTime":2168.729,"body":"with a platform across"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2168.729,"endTime":2169.719,"body":"the entire organization?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2169.959,"endTime":2170.409,"body":"I think like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2170.529,"endTime":2173.529,"body":"partly I did a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2170.529,"endTime":2173.529,"body":"a disservice to the, to like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2173.529,"endTime":2175.689,"body":"myself here, which is when"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2173.529,"endTime":2175.689,"body":"we were building the product,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2175.809,"endTime":2176.384,"body":"we were pretty insular."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2176.889,"endTime":2179.519,"body":"There's that like, uh, meme"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2176.889,"endTime":2179.519,"body":"basically like, hey, PMs, just,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2179.519,"endTime":2181.969,"body":"uh, and engineers will just"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2179.519,"endTime":2181.969,"body":"like lock themselves in a room"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2181.969,"endTime":2184.139,"body":"and be singularly focused and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2181.969,"endTime":2184.139,"body":"that's basically what we did."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2184.139,"endTime":2186.839,"body":"We like, even in our office,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2184.139,"endTime":2186.839,"body":"we had like a little meeting"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2186.839,"endTime":2189.319,"body":"room and we just like took"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2186.839,"endTime":2189.319,"body":"over the meeting room and for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2189.329,"endTime":2191.609,"body":"a couple of months just like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2189.329,"endTime":2191.609,"body":"built as fast as we could,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2191.719,"endTime":2192.859,"body":"made communication really fast."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2193.079,"endTime":2195.749,"body":"We did try to make sure the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2193.079,"endTime":2195.749,"body":"whole company felt the launch."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2195.749,"endTime":2198.119,"body":"I think that was like the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2195.749,"endTime":2198.119,"body":"first, uh, stage of that is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2198.119,"endTime":2200.499,"body":"like helping to make sure"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2198.119,"endTime":2200.499,"body":"while we were building a little"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2200.499,"endTime":2203.789,"body":"bit isolated that the whole"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2200.499,"endTime":2203.789,"body":"company felt our successes."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2204.159,"endTime":2206.219,"body":"And when we, when customers"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2204.159,"endTime":2206.219,"body":"would tell us, hey, this is,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2206.249,"endTime":2208.219,"body":"this is really cool, we try"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2206.249,"endTime":2208.219,"body":"to make sure it's like, it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2208.219,"endTime":2210.159,"body":"not supply chain, the team"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2208.219,"endTime":2210.159,"body":"that's feeling like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2210.159,"endTime":2210.969,"body":"this thing's been really cool."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2211.629,"endTime":2213.269,"body":"The company built"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2211.629,"endTime":2213.269,"body":"something really cool."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2213.289,"endTime":2215.529,"body":"When we launched, we made sure"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2213.289,"endTime":2215.529,"body":"the whole company was involved."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2215.809,"endTime":2218.169,"body":"Uh, we made, when we made swag"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2215.809,"endTime":2218.169,"body":"for the product, we made sure"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2218.169,"endTime":2220.109,"body":"it's, it's not just for the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2218.169,"endTime":2220.109,"body":"team that made the product,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2220.119,"endTime":2222.379,"body":"it's for the whole company"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2220.119,"endTime":2222.379,"body":"to make sure that it becomes"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2222.379,"endTime":2223.509,"body":"a core part of the identity."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2223.519,"endTime":2225.339,"body":"I think we're still"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2223.519,"endTime":2225.339,"body":"in that process now."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2225.499,"endTime":2228.479,"body":"We're still uncovering times"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2225.499,"endTime":2228.479,"body":"where like, Hey, the marketing"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2228.489,"endTime":2230.829,"body":"message still feels really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2228.489,"endTime":2230.829,"body":"tailored towards static"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2230.889,"endTime":2232.159,"body":"analysis of first party code."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2232.299,"endTime":2233.479,"body":"How do we make sure"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2232.299,"endTime":2233.479,"body":"that we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2233.479,"endTime":2234.389,"body":"ourselves as a platform?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2234.399,"endTime":2236.369,"body":"We're talking about ourselves"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2234.399,"endTime":2236.369,"body":"as a multi product company"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2236.689,"endTime":2239.189,"body":"and maybe like diversifying"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2236.689,"endTime":2239.189,"body":"the messaging that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2239.189,"endTime":2239.639,"body":"we're talking about."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2240.064,"endTime":2242.294,"body":"FirstPartyCode, sometimes we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2240.064,"endTime":2242.294,"body":"talking about supply chains,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2242.304,"endTime":2244.424,"body":"sometimes we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2242.304,"endTime":2244.424,"body":"secrets, um, but I think more"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2244.424,"endTime":2247.294,"body":"and more we're starting to see"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2244.424,"endTime":2247.294,"body":"that identity shift, um, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2247.294,"endTime":2250.224,"body":"that's I think partly like we"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2247.294,"endTime":2250.224,"body":"want to make sure that people"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2250.234,"endTime":2253.044,"body":"feel like the wins that the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2250.234,"endTime":2253.044,"body":"com that the new products"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2253.044,"endTime":2256.474,"body":"bring are shared wins that"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2253.044,"endTime":2256.474,"body":"everybody can like celebrate."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2256.824,"endTime":2256.904,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2256.904,"endTime":2260.364,"body":"love that insight of shared wins"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2256.904,"endTime":2260.364,"body":"because, uh, having everyone"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2260.364,"endTime":2263.364,"body":"buy in, it really does require"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2260.364,"endTime":2263.364,"body":"everyone feeling like that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2263.694,"endTime":2267.094,"body":"success is shared, so I think"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2263.694,"endTime":2267.094,"body":"that's a, a lovely insight"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2267.094,"endTime":2268.284,"body":"to kind of close us out on."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2268.789,"endTime":2270.779,"body":"Do you have any closing thoughts"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2268.789,"endTime":2270.779,"body":"that you'd want to share with"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2270.779,"endTime":2273.839,"body":"our audience around this process"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2270.779,"endTime":2273.839,"body":"and what you learned from it?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2274.089,"endTime":2276.159,"body":"I think like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2274.089,"endTime":2276.159,"body":"product development, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2276.159,"endTime":2278.109,"body":"can tell from my passion"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2276.159,"endTime":2278.109,"body":"you said earlier, product"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2278.109,"endTime":2279.569,"body":"development is so much fun."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2279.859,"endTime":2283.649,"body":"Um, and I think it makes Like"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2279.859,"endTime":2283.649,"body":"every engineer better to have"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2283.649,"endTime":2286.539,"body":"an opportunity to work on a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2283.649,"endTime":2286.539,"body":"product team or to think of"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2286.539,"endTime":2287.879,"body":"themselves as building products."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2288.039,"endTime":2290.089,"body":"I talked to a lot to our"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2288.039,"endTime":2290.089,"body":"infrastructure team too,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2290.319,"endTime":2292.309,"body":"that like the reason our"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2290.319,"endTime":2292.309,"body":"infrastructure team has been"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2292.309,"endTime":2295.159,"body":"so successful is they also"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2292.309,"endTime":2295.159,"body":"think about building themselves"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2295.159,"endTime":2297.459,"body":"as building products, but for"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2295.159,"endTime":2297.459,"body":"the other engineers at the"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2297.459,"endTime":2300.449,"body":"company that everyone, if you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2297.459,"endTime":2300.449,"body":"put on your PM hat, if you"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2300.459,"endTime":2301.879,"body":"think about who are my users."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2302.389,"endTime":2304.169,"body":"How is what I'm building"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2302.389,"endTime":2304.169,"body":"going to bring them value?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2304.319,"endTime":2306.729,"body":"It's so much fun to build"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2304.319,"endTime":2306.729,"body":"something, get it into someone's"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2306.729,"endTime":2310.319,"body":"hands, see them use it, and"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2306.729,"endTime":2310.319,"body":"then get, keep on iterating,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2310.329,"endTime":2312.749,"body":"see if you can like really"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2310.329,"endTime":2312.749,"body":"stretch that value, make things"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2312.769,"endTime":2313.969,"body":"easier, make things better."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2314.389,"endTime":2314.899,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2314.929,"endTime":2316.339,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2314.929,"endTime":2316.339,"body":"much for bringing your passion"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2316.339,"endTime":2317.449,"body":"onto Dev Interrupted, Adam."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2317.469,"endTime":2320.029,"body":"I, I will say if you're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2317.469,"endTime":2320.029,"body":"watching this on YouTube, you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2320.029,"endTime":2322.279,"body":"can really see how animated"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2320.029,"endTime":2322.279,"body":"Adam is and how excited he"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2322.279,"endTime":2324.439,"body":"is and, uh, it's a ton of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2322.279,"endTime":2324.439,"body":"fun to be able to have this"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2324.439,"endTime":2325.709,"body":"conversation in person with you."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2326.029,"endTime":2328.459,"body":"For folks who want to follow"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2326.029,"endTime":2328.459,"body":"your work and your approach, uh,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2328.489,"endTime":2329.069,"body":"how can they do that?"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2329.514,"endTime":2331.184,"body":"Um, I'm on"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2329.514,"endTime":2331.184,"body":"LinkedIn, Adam Berman,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2331.214,"endTime":2332.014,"body":"I work at Semgrep."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2332.044,"endTime":2334.484,"body":"Um, if you want to see our"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2332.044,"endTime":2334.484,"body":"product at all, we're semgrep."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2334.484,"endTime":2334.904,"body":"com."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2335.184,"endTime":2336.884,"body":"Um, come, uh, come check us out."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2336.944,"endTime":2339.114,"body":"Uh, we're open source,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2336.944,"endTime":2339.114,"body":"uh, you can use our open"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2339.114,"endTime":2341.294,"body":"source tool, contribute,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2339.114,"endTime":2341.294,"body":"join our community, Slack."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2341.474,"endTime":2343.784,"body":"We love external contributors,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2341.474,"endTime":2343.784,"body":"we love people who write"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2343.794,"endTime":2347.064,"body":"rules, uh, about how to make"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2343.794,"endTime":2347.064,"body":"the different frameworks"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2347.104,"endTime":2348.134,"body":"we use more successful."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2348.134,"endTime":2349.234,"body":"We have a registry of rules."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2349.454,"endTime":2351.064,"body":"Uh, so come contribute,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2349.454,"endTime":2351.064,"body":"come hang out,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2351.204,"endTime":2351.664,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2351.904,"endTime":2353.934,"body":"Adam, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2351.904,"endTime":2353.934,"body":"joining us on Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2354.179,"endTime":2357.229,"body":"And big shout out to LeadDev for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2354.179,"endTime":2357.229,"body":"having us here and uh, letting"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2357.229,"endTime":2359.129,"body":"us have this great conversation"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2357.229,"endTime":2359.129,"body":"right on the floor of the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2359.129,"endTime":2359.569,"body":"convention."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2359.719,"endTime":2361.169,"body":"Yeah, this is a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2359.719,"endTime":2361.169,"body":"great conference, come join"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2361.169,"endTime":2364.129,"body":"LeadDev next year, uh, this is"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2361.169,"endTime":2364.129,"body":"a really awesome opportunity"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2364.129,"endTime":2367.139,"body":"to meet a bunch of different"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2364.129,"endTime":2367.139,"body":"uh, engineering leaders, hear a"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2367.139,"endTime":2369.649,"body":"bunch of different perspectives,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2367.139,"endTime":2369.649,"body":"I've loved the talk so far,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2369.779,"endTime":2372.989,"body":"there's like, all these"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2369.779,"endTime":2372.989,"body":"different lenses where like we,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2373.009,"endTime":2375.548,"body":"we're tracked by like our own"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2373.009,"endTime":2375.548,"body":"networks of people that we know"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2375.549,"endTime":2377.719,"body":"and the lenses that they bring,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2375.549,"endTime":2377.719,"body":"there's this awesome opportunity"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2377.719,"endTime":2378.839,"body":"to expand your network."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2378.849,"endTime":2379.559,"body":"Get the exposure."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2379.749,"endTime":2380.059,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2380.639,"endTime":2381.019,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2381.319,"endTime":2382.159,"body":"Uh, thanks again Adam."},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2382.389,"endTime":2382.529,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Adam Berman","startTime":2382.529,"endTime":2383.149,"body":"thanks so much."}]}