{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":0.312,"endTime":4.042,"body":"Hey everyone, I'm your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":0.312,"endTime":4.042,"body":"host Ben Lloyd Pearson, and I'm happy"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":4.142,"endTime":8.702,"body":"to be joined today by Austin Spiegel,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":4.142,"endTime":8.702,"body":"co founder and CTO at Sift Stack."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":9.082,"endTime":11.032,"body":"Austin, thank you for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":12.206,"endTime":13.496,"body":"Ben, thanks"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":12.206,"endTime":13.496,"body":"so much for having me here."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":13.496,"endTime":15.646,"body":"I'm really excited to be on."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":16.942,"endTime":19.332,"body":"So you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":16.942,"endTime":19.332,"body":"bring an impressive background."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":19.412,"endTime":24.362,"body":"So before Sift Stack, you spent about five"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":19.412,"endTime":24.362,"body":"years working as an engineer at SpaceX,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":24.682,"endTime":28.762,"body":"and I want to start the conversation there"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":24.682,"endTime":28.762,"body":"because, I think SpaceX is relatively"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":28.762,"endTime":33.712,"body":"unique in that they famously build"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":28.762,"endTime":33.712,"body":"almost everything in house, like even"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":33.712,"endTime":35.282,"body":"systems like HR from what I've heard."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":35.682,"endTime":39.682,"body":"And I imagine that this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":35.682,"endTime":39.682,"body":"is probably Your role that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":39.812,"endTime":41.642,"body":"engineers play in product design."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":41.952,"endTime":44.542,"body":"In fact, you wrote an article about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":41.952,"endTime":44.542,"body":"this that I want, I'm going to ask"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":44.542,"endTime":48.712,"body":"you a little bit about later, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":44.542,"endTime":48.712,"body":"first let's just start with SpaceX."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":48.722,"endTime":53.662,"body":"So can you tell us a bit about your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":48.722,"endTime":53.662,"body":"experience at SpaceX and how it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":53.662,"endTime":55.722,"body":"shaped your entrepreneurial path?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":56.566,"endTime":56.816,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":56.816,"endTime":57.356,"body":"definitely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":57.846,"endTime":60.366,"body":"And I just want to start out and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":57.846,"endTime":60.366,"body":"say too that, I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":60.366,"endTime":62.676,"body":"set out to be an entrepreneur."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":62.676,"endTime":64.266,"body":"I've always been a builder."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":64.706,"endTime":66.726,"body":"I loved playing with Legos as a kid."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":66.866,"endTime":70.176,"body":"I've always liked watching How It's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":66.866,"endTime":70.176,"body":"Made, the show about manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":71.256,"endTime":75.116,"body":"But coming out of college, I"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":71.256,"endTime":75.116,"body":"didn't really feel like I had a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":75.116,"endTime":78.736,"body":"kind of unique perspective on a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":75.116,"endTime":78.736,"body":"problem that needed to be solved."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":79.196,"endTime":82.456,"body":"I was actually in an entrepreneurship"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":79.196,"endTime":82.456,"body":"organization in college, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":82.456,"endTime":87.046,"body":"the problems that I was interested in"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":82.456,"endTime":87.046,"body":"building products for were fairly trivial"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":87.076,"endTime":88.836,"body":"like a crowdsourced playlist, for example."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":89.256,"endTime":93.896,"body":"So SpaceX really opened my eyes to a whole"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":89.256,"endTime":93.896,"body":"class of problems that I don't think a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":93.896,"endTime":95.696,"body":"lot of us get to experience every day."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":96.076,"endTime":98.176,"body":"And specifically that was manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":98.701,"endTime":102.931,"body":"So I think something that's really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":98.701,"endTime":102.931,"body":"unique about SpaceX is it takes a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":102.971,"endTime":105.341,"body":"kind of first principles approach"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":102.971,"endTime":105.341,"body":"to solving all these problems."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":105.571,"endTime":109.411,"body":"And I think that gets to your point"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":105.571,"endTime":109.411,"body":"about, SpaceX now building all of its own"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":109.411,"endTime":114.011,"body":"software, rather than rely on software"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":109.411,"endTime":114.011,"body":"that's already existing in the world."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":114.011,"endTime":117.391,"body":"For example, maybe SAP,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":114.011,"endTime":117.391,"body":"which is a robust ERP system."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":117.691,"endTime":120.951,"body":"SpaceX thought we're the first company"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":117.691,"endTime":120.951,"body":"that's going to launch and land rockets."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":120.971,"endTime":124.746,"body":"So what would an ERP and manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":120.971,"endTime":124.746,"body":"execution system look like?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":124.746,"endTime":127.706,"body":"So that's what it's going to look like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":124.746,"endTime":127.706,"body":"for a company that's going to do that."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":128.006,"endTime":131.116,"body":"And I think that's really what my big"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":128.006,"endTime":131.116,"body":"takeaway was from my experience at"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":131.116,"endTime":135.686,"body":"SpaceX is if you're going to go solve"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":131.116,"endTime":135.686,"body":"novel problems you probably need novel"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":135.686,"endTime":137.836,"body":"tools to help you solve those problems."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":139.312,"endTime":142.362,"body":"Yeah, I can relate"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":139.312,"endTime":142.362,"body":"very heavily on the not having big"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":142.362,"endTime":146.122,"body":"enough problems to solve, to actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":142.362,"endTime":146.122,"body":"start a company for, I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":146.122,"endTime":149.542,"body":"engineers relate on the idea of having"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":146.122,"endTime":149.542,"body":"a lot of side projects and like other"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":149.542,"endTime":151.302,"body":"things that, that they love to build."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":151.602,"endTime":155.492,"body":"And maybe that's why, SpaceX engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":151.602,"endTime":155.492,"body":"is so highly revered because it does"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":155.492,"endTime":158.002,"body":"encapsulate that type of mindset."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":159.216,"endTime":159.416,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":159.416,"endTime":159.956,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":159.956,"endTime":164.196,"body":"In order to land a rocket we needed to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":159.956,"endTime":164.196,"body":"also build an autonomous drone ship."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":164.946,"endTime":167.056,"body":"So that's not a problem that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":164.946,"endTime":167.056,"body":"you're encountering pretty"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":167.056,"endTime":168.136,"body":"much at any other company."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":168.827,"endTime":170.127,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":170.497,"endTime":175.417,"body":"So you emphasize the importance of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":170.497,"endTime":175.417,"body":"engineers driving product vision."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":175.417,"endTime":179.747,"body":"So not just being like responsive to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":175.417,"endTime":179.747,"body":"enter the needs of the product team or the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":179.747,"endTime":183.687,"body":"demands of the product team, but actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":179.747,"endTime":183.687,"body":"helping to drive that vision forward."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":184.057,"endTime":188.997,"body":"So explain how like your time at SpaceX,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":184.057,"endTime":188.997,"body":"like really influenced this belief."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":189.596,"endTime":190.206,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":190.206,"endTime":193.456,"body":"I had the privilege of working with a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":190.206,"endTime":193.456,"body":"lot of great product managers at SpaceX."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":193.836,"endTime":197.806,"body":"But about midway through my time there"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":193.836,"endTime":197.806,"body":"our organization actually eliminated"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":197.806,"endTime":199.146,"body":"all product management roles."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":199.486,"endTime":202.406,"body":"And either some product managers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":199.486,"endTime":202.406,"body":"moved on or some product managers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":202.426,"endTime":203.526,"body":"transitioned to engineering."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":203.856,"endTime":207.366,"body":"And of course this was a really difficult"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":203.856,"endTime":207.366,"body":"challenge for the remaining engineers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":207.366,"endTime":211.306,"body":"because now they needed to take on"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":207.366,"endTime":211.306,"body":"product management responsibility."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":211.306,"endTime":211.436,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":211.736,"endTime":215.576,"body":"And in some cases, some of those engineers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":211.736,"endTime":215.576,"body":"left and others, stepped up to do that."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":215.916,"endTime":219.846,"body":"So I think while we ultimately probably"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":215.916,"endTime":219.846,"body":"swung the pendulum too far in the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":219.846,"endTime":223.596,"body":"other direction of not having product"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":219.846,"endTime":223.596,"body":"managers when we did this restructuring,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":223.936,"endTime":227.126,"body":"we had product managers kind of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":223.936,"endTime":227.126,"body":"writing specs for projects that were"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":227.126,"endTime":228.496,"body":"probably never going to get built."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":229.006,"endTime":232.016,"body":"So I think really what the problem"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":229.006,"endTime":232.016,"body":"was, it created this abstraction"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":232.016,"endTime":236.656,"body":"layer between engineering who was"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":232.016,"endTime":236.656,"body":"solving the problems and the people"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":236.656,"endTime":237.826,"body":"they were solving the problems for."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":237.826,"endTime":241.776,"body":"So we were building features that maybe"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":237.826,"endTime":241.776,"body":"missed the mark or weren't actually"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":241.986,"endTime":244.916,"body":"solving the problem that we were trying to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":241.986,"endTime":244.916,"body":"solve and they weren't really being used."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":245.286,"endTime":249.506,"body":"Growth from there was as I took on more"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":245.286,"endTime":249.506,"body":"product responsibility, I realized that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":249.876,"endTime":253.096,"body":"being much closer to the problem and more"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":249.876,"endTime":253.096,"body":"importantly, being much closer to the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":253.096,"endTime":259.191,"body":"users really helped us build solutions"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":253.096,"endTime":259.191,"body":"that were addressing those problems and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":259.191,"endTime":262.411,"body":"not waste time on things that weren't,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":259.191,"endTime":262.411,"body":"moving the needle for our customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":264.107,"endTime":264.307,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":264.307,"endTime":268.147,"body":"I love the idea"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":264.307,"endTime":268.147,"body":"of, some engineering people being"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":268.147,"endTime":272.027,"body":"able to step up into this new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":268.147,"endTime":272.027,"body":"like semi product management role."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":272.387,"endTime":275.587,"body":"Were there any like commonalities"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":272.387,"endTime":275.587,"body":"between the people you think?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":276.022,"endTime":279.772,"body":"Both we're willing to step up, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":276.022,"endTime":279.772,"body":"also we're successful in doing so."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":280.271,"endTime":280.491,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":280.491,"endTime":280.841,"body":"man."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":281.121,"endTime":282.891,"body":"Yeah, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":281.121,"endTime":282.891,"body":"interesting question."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":282.891,"endTime":286.151,"body":"I think ultimately there's certainly"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":282.891,"endTime":286.151,"body":"no, no fault in being an engineer who"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":286.201,"endTime":289.251,"body":"just wants to go and solve a technical"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":286.201,"endTime":289.251,"body":"problem and spend more time in production."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":289.561,"endTime":291.051,"body":"And like engineering."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":291.421,"endTime":296.321,"body":"But what I noticed at SpaceX is the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":291.421,"endTime":296.321,"body":"people that were successful kind of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":296.331,"endTime":300.761,"body":"in this role were people who saw,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":296.331,"endTime":300.761,"body":"really saw, engineering and building"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":300.761,"endTime":302.321,"body":"software as a means to an end."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":302.611,"endTime":305.971,"body":"So they really saw it as a tool"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":302.611,"endTime":305.971,"body":"to go and solve a business problem"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":305.971,"endTime":309.991,"body":"and not necessarily as, just"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":305.971,"endTime":309.991,"body":"Something to build in and of itself."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":310.421,"endTime":312.731,"body":"And I think that was the greatest quality."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":312.801,"endTime":316.931,"body":"And it's really people that have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":312.801,"endTime":316.931,"body":"customer empathy and get really motivated"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":317.611,"endTime":322.661,"body":"when their users are struggling or, are"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":317.611,"endTime":322.661,"body":"not I guess the best example would be,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":323.161,"endTime":328.161,"body":"there's so many opportunities to save"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":323.161,"endTime":328.161,"body":"hours in the process of building a rocket."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":328.471,"endTime":331.251,"body":"So the people that kind of look at"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":328.471,"endTime":331.251,"body":"that process and say, wow, if we go"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":331.251,"endTime":334.301,"body":"automate this process where we build this"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":331.251,"endTime":334.301,"body":"feature, we can now go and turn around"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":334.301,"endTime":337.641,"body":"a rocket in 10 less hours than before."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":337.641,"endTime":338.941,"body":"Those were the types of people that really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":340.981,"endTime":343.581,"body":"motivated by it and were"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":340.981,"endTime":343.581,"body":"successful in that organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":344.577,"endTime":344.917,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":344.927,"endTime":347.737,"body":". So viewing software as a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":344.927,"endTime":347.737,"body":"means to an end, like this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":347.737,"endTime":352.337,"body":"is actually a very common I think,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":347.737,"endTime":352.337,"body":"trait that I hear in a lot of hype,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":352.357,"endTime":356.217,"body":"like teams that we would view as like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":352.357,"endTime":356.217,"body":"high performing engineering teams and,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":356.247,"endTime":361.837,"body":"I really think that like one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":356.247,"endTime":361.837,"body":"surest sign that you have a really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":361.837,"endTime":363.557,"body":"strong engineering culture is that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":364.467,"endTime":368.037,"body":"All of your engineers are considering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":364.467,"endTime":368.037,"body":"like that end user impact, like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":368.037,"endTime":370.317,"body":"they're going all the way through,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":368.037,"endTime":370.317,"body":"whatever they're building, they're"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":370.327,"endTime":374.757,"body":"going all the way through to the end"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":370.327,"endTime":374.757,"body":"to understand how it impacts that user."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":374.757,"endTime":378.047,"body":"If you're a, if you're A database"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":374.757,"endTime":378.047,"body":"engineer at Netflix that's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":378.047,"endTime":379.567,"body":"building backend database stuff."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":379.567,"endTime":383.297,"body":"Like you're actually thinking about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":379.567,"endTime":383.297,"body":"how do these queries impact the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":383.407,"endTime":387.147,"body":"actual use cases that our developers"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":383.407,"endTime":387.147,"body":"are going to be, or consumers will"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":387.147,"endTime":388.517,"body":"be like consuming this product."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":388.517,"endTime":391.747,"body":"So yeah, I really love hearing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":388.517,"endTime":391.747,"body":"like more stories, related to that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":393.076,"endTime":393.446,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":393.536,"endTime":394.416,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":394.656,"endTime":395.036,"body":"I think,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":395.106,"endTime":396.926,"body":"I was"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":395.106,"endTime":396.926,"body":"thinking through what specific"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":396.926,"endTime":398.586,"body":"examples can I draw upon here?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":399.016,"endTime":403.786,"body":"And something that I found really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":399.016,"endTime":403.786,"body":"interesting, or I recall, and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":403.786,"endTime":406.036,"body":"it's funny because my co founder"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":403.786,"endTime":406.036,"body":"actually worked on this project."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":406.486,"endTime":410.386,"body":"There's a manufacturing process where"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":406.486,"endTime":410.386,"body":"you basically take two different parts."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":410.386,"endTime":411.666,"body":"So in this case, it was."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":412.126,"endTime":415.966,"body":"Two parts of the trunk that go"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":412.126,"endTime":415.966,"body":"on the Dragon Space Capsule."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":416.336,"endTime":419.316,"body":"And you basically take these two"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":416.336,"endTime":419.316,"body":"parts and you drill holes in them."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":419.746,"endTime":422.846,"body":"And then you separate those parts and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":419.746,"endTime":422.846,"body":"they go through separate processes."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":423.156,"endTime":425.496,"body":"But you actually have to bring"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":423.156,"endTime":425.496,"body":"these two parts back together"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":425.496,"endTime":427.746,"body":"and those holes have to match."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":427.956,"endTime":429.696,"body":"So that whole process is"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":427.956,"endTime":429.696,"body":"called match drilling."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":430.146,"endTime":432.246,"body":"And it's a fairly complex process."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":432.526,"endTime":436.186,"body":"And we actually wanted to build a feature"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":432.526,"endTime":436.186,"body":"into our manufacturing execution system"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":436.546,"endTime":439.616,"body":"So that we could ensure that when these"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":436.546,"endTime":439.616,"body":"two parts came back together, they came"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":439.616,"endTime":440.926,"body":"back together in the right formation."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":441.426,"endTime":444.576,"body":"And we spent with product"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":441.426,"endTime":444.576,"body":"managers, we spent a lot of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":444.576,"endTime":445.986,"body":"time designing this solution."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":446.316,"endTime":449.816,"body":"And almost trying to build software"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":446.316,"endTime":449.816,"body":"to solve a manufacturing problem."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":450.336,"endTime":453.206,"body":"And ultimately we went out, we spent a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":450.336,"endTime":453.206,"body":"lot of resources, we built this feature."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":453.546,"endTime":455.766,"body":"And then six months later it"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":453.546,"endTime":455.766,"body":"was not being used by anybody."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":456.026,"endTime":458.436,"body":"And I think that's the perfect"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":456.026,"endTime":458.436,"body":"example of something where, You"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":458.436,"endTime":462.226,"body":"know maybe six months, a year later,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":458.436,"endTime":462.226,"body":"when we're in this world of kind of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":462.226,"endTime":466.336,"body":"software engineers getting a deeper"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":462.226,"endTime":466.336,"body":"understanding of the problem and the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":466.336,"endTime":468.726,"body":"product, they would realize, this"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":466.336,"endTime":468.726,"body":"is actually going to add a lot of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":468.746,"endTime":470.726,"body":"unnecessary complexity to our system."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":470.956,"endTime":475.066,"body":"And it's probably not going to really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":470.956,"endTime":475.066,"body":"solve the underlying problem, which at the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":475.066,"endTime":478.286,"body":"end of the day is more of a manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":475.066,"endTime":478.286,"body":"problem than it is a software problem."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":479.742,"endTime":480.012,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":480.012,"endTime":484.012,"body":"That's rough having six months"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":480.012,"endTime":484.012,"body":"of work and not going anywhere."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":484.442,"endTime":484.722,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":485.072,"endTime":486.392,"body":"I imagine that doesn't feel great."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":487.002,"endTime":491.642,"body":"You've gone from SpaceX to go on"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":487.002,"endTime":491.642,"body":"and found your new company SIFT."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":492.012,"endTime":497.262,"body":"I imagine you're probably not building"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":492.012,"endTime":497.262,"body":"everything yourself anymore, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":497.272,"endTime":502.062,"body":"I am curious, how has that mindset"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":497.272,"endTime":502.062,"body":"helped you or played a role in your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":502.062,"endTime":504.282,"body":"transition to founding your own company?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":505.231,"endTime":505.581,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":505.581,"endTime":505.841,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":505.841,"endTime":506.601,"body":"That's a great question."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":506.651,"endTime":509.771,"body":"I think something that people"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":506.651,"endTime":509.771,"body":"typically forget is that."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":510.441,"endTime":513.051,"body":"SpaceX is nearly 25 years old."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":513.191,"endTime":516.901,"body":"Elon Musk and SpaceX weren't household"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":513.191,"endTime":516.901,"body":"names less than a decade ago."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":517.451,"endTime":520.901,"body":"So SpaceX actually wasn't building"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":517.451,"endTime":520.901,"body":"all of its own tools for the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":520.901,"endTime":522.021,"body":"entire history of the company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":522.401,"endTime":525.121,"body":"And it wasn't fully vertically integrated"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":522.401,"endTime":525.121,"body":"for the entire history of its company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":525.131,"endTime":529.281,"body":"In fact, a lot of the software that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":525.131,"endTime":529.281,"body":"SpaceX uses now wasn't built until"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":529.281,"endTime":533.191,"body":"after Falcon 1 successfully launched"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":529.281,"endTime":533.191,"body":"in 2008 and even later than that,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":533.201,"endTime":535.551,"body":"like once Falcon 9 was flying in 2012."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":536.091,"endTime":540.071,"body":"So I think sometimes companies"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":536.091,"endTime":540.071,"body":"will look at SpaceX and try to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":540.071,"endTime":543.931,"body":"apply the SpaceX mentality when"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":540.071,"endTime":543.931,"body":"there may be, seed stage company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":544.251,"endTime":546.571,"body":"And that's probably the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":544.251,"endTime":546.571,"body":"wrong lesson to, to take."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":546.771,"endTime":550.511,"body":"I think ultimately like the lesson"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":546.771,"endTime":550.511,"body":"you want to take away is one moving"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":550.511,"endTime":554.931,"body":"quickly, but also really don't"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":550.511,"endTime":554.931,"body":"build everything, but build your"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":554.981,"endTime":556.091,"body":"kind of core competency, right?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":556.221,"endTime":559.621,"body":"So what, what is actually going"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":556.221,"endTime":559.621,"body":"to make what is going to be a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":559.621,"endTime":560.961,"body":"competitive advantage for your company?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":561.316,"endTime":565.136,"body":"So the way that I look at it is, we're"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":561.316,"endTime":565.136,"body":"building a time series data platform"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":565.456,"endTime":567.746,"body":"for hardware sensor observability."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":568.216,"endTime":572.136,"body":"So for example, for us, time storing,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":568.216,"endTime":572.136,"body":"ingesting, storing, analyzing time"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":572.136,"endTime":573.556,"body":"series data is a core competency."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":573.726,"endTime":577.036,"body":"So of course we're going to go"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":573.726,"endTime":577.036,"body":"and build a unique solution there."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":577.456,"endTime":580.896,"body":"And the real benefit of that is now"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":577.456,"endTime":580.896,"body":"we have total control over how it's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":580.916,"endTime":582.626,"body":"implemented and how we grow it."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":582.646,"endTime":586.516,"body":"And we can really tailor it to address the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":582.646,"endTime":586.516,"body":"problems that our customers are solving."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":586.936,"endTime":591.376,"body":"But, maybe as an example, compared"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":586.936,"endTime":591.376,"body":"to SpaceX, SpaceX is now at the point"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":591.376,"endTime":593.106,"body":"where it has built its own HR system."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":593.506,"endTime":595.886,"body":"I don't think that's something SIFT"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":593.506,"endTime":595.886,"body":"would ever do, and certainly we're"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":595.886,"endTime":597.396,"body":"not going to be doing at this point."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":597.396,"endTime":600.756,"body":"let's transition"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":597.396,"endTime":600.756,"body":"into a conversation about some of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":600.776,"endTime":603.796,"body":"the thought leadership content that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":600.776,"endTime":603.796,"body":"you've published that's out there."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":604.136,"endTime":608.246,"body":"Not too long ago, you wrote this article"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":604.136,"endTime":608.246,"body":"title is the secret to better products."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":608.631,"endTime":610.281,"body":"Let engineers drive vision."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":610.751,"endTime":611.911,"body":"So let's talk about that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":611.911,"endTime":613.251,"body":"What inspired this article?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":613.855,"endTime":614.575,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":614.575,"endTime":615.835,"body":"Ultimately what inspired it was,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":616.385,"endTime":620.075,"body":"we've managed to hire a really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":616.385,"endTime":620.075,"body":"amazing team of engineers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":620.075,"endTime":621.275,"body":"who are product oriented."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":621.625,"endTime":625.465,"body":"But of course, I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":621.625,"endTime":625.465,"body":"difficult skill set to look for and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":625.465,"endTime":629.715,"body":"we wanted to publish this thesis"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":625.465,"endTime":629.715,"body":"to attract more like minded talent."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":630.705,"endTime":634.865,"body":"So that's the primary reason for"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":630.705,"endTime":634.865,"body":"kind of, publishing the article."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":635.175,"endTime":640.955,"body":"I think the other thing too is our"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":635.175,"endTime":640.955,"body":"customers really value working with"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":641.495,"endTime":645.425,"body":"people and vendors who understand their"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":641.495,"endTime":645.425,"body":"problems And, we want to build a culture"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":645.425,"endTime":649.555,"body":"here of customer empathy and of engineers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":645.425,"endTime":649.555,"body":"who understand our customer problems."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":649.775,"endTime":651.395,"body":"So that's, why we published the piece."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":651.395,"endTime":656.065,"body":"And, ultimately I think like building"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":651.395,"endTime":656.065,"body":"a product management organization where"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":656.065,"endTime":659.265,"body":"product managers are expected to make"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":656.065,"endTime":659.265,"body":"all the product decisions just doesn't"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":659.265,"endTime":660.785,"body":"scale for an early stage company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":661.17,"endTime":666.0,"body":"Like we, we couldn't, we have a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":661.17,"endTime":666.0,"body":"team of 12 engineers right now if we"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":666.0,"endTime":668.91,"body":"had, if we wanted to have a product"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":666.0,"endTime":668.91,"body":"management organization that was"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":668.91,"endTime":671.67,"body":"making all the product decisions, it"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":668.91,"endTime":671.67,"body":"would have to be like maybe a quarter"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":671.7,"endTime":674.91,"body":"of that or a half of that, a half"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":671.7,"endTime":674.91,"body":"of that size, and that just wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":674.94,"endTime":676.24,"body":"be something that's feasible for us."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":676.71,"endTime":676.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":676.96,"endTime":679.66,"body":"And I imagine that's a massive"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":676.96,"endTime":679.66,"body":"competitive advantage too, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":679.66,"endTime":683.69,"body":"If you're able to dedicate a lot more"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":679.66,"endTime":683.69,"body":"resources into building new value"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":683.69,"endTime":685.53,"body":"and enhancing existing features."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":686.0,"endTime":688.53,"body":"That's massive for a company"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":686.0,"endTime":688.53,"body":"that's that small, It's like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":688.53,"endTime":689.74,"body":"a cultural differentiator."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":692.316,"endTime":696.216,"body":"this culture that puts engineers"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":692.316,"endTime":696.216,"body":"in the position to drive vision."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":696.216,"endTime":698.766,"body":"So what is like, how would you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":696.216,"endTime":698.766,"body":"describe what that actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":698.766,"endTime":700.536,"body":"looks like in the day to day?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":700.536,"endTime":704.466,"body":"Like a developer, like ideally"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":700.536,"endTime":704.466,"body":"you want all of your developers to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":704.466,"endTime":707.516,"body":"raise their hand and say, yes, we do"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":704.466,"endTime":707.516,"body":"believe that we're following this."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":707.516,"endTime":710.346,"body":"So the ones who say that what"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":707.516,"endTime":710.346,"body":"would you expect them to be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":710.346,"endTime":711.686,"body":"doing like in their day to day?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":713.26,"endTime":714.07,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":714.07,"endTime":717.2,"body":"I think the kind of the first"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":714.07,"endTime":717.2,"body":"thing that's really important is"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":717.2,"endTime":719.78,"body":"to have a lot of customer empathy"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":717.2,"endTime":719.78,"body":"and really think put the customer"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":719.78,"endTime":720.93,"body":"at the center of everything we do."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":721.39,"endTime":725.65,"body":"So ideally that means having people"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":721.39,"endTime":725.65,"body":"on staff who, are your customers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":725.65,"endTime":726.86,"body":"or would be your customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":727.31,"endTime":728.14,"body":"We're really fortunate."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":728.16,"endTime":731.17,"body":"We have a team of forward deployed"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":728.16,"endTime":731.17,"body":"engineers who kind of work on"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":731.17,"endTime":733.7,"body":"our core product and help extend"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":731.17,"endTime":733.7,"body":"our product for our customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":734.145,"endTime":737.525,"body":"And all of those people are former"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":734.145,"endTime":737.525,"body":"flight software engineers that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":737.525,"endTime":738.965,"body":"worked on the Dragon Space Capsule."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":739.275,"endTime":742.755,"body":"So they have a really deep understanding"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":739.275,"endTime":742.755,"body":"of how these tools are used by"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":742.755,"endTime":747.315,"body":"customers, how these tools integrate"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":742.755,"endTime":747.315,"body":"with the customer application ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":747.625,"endTime":750.875,"body":"And then they can also really help"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":747.625,"endTime":750.875,"body":"inform our internal engineering team"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":751.185,"endTime":752.495,"body":"on how we want to build the product."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":752.875,"endTime":755.355,"body":"So that's, that's number"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":752.875,"endTime":755.355,"body":"one really important."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":755.415,"endTime":758.635,"body":"Then second, I think, is like including"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":755.415,"endTime":758.635,"body":"engineers in strategic decisions."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":759.805,"endTime":762.085,"body":"which empowers them to make"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":759.805,"endTime":762.085,"body":"decisions about the product."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":762.085,"endTime":766.125,"body":"So don't just create a roadmap and then"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":762.085,"endTime":766.125,"body":"throw that roadmap over the fence and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":766.125,"endTime":767.705,"body":"expect your engineers to implement it."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":768.045,"endTime":770.565,"body":"And of course there's certain"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":768.045,"endTime":770.565,"body":"situations where you need to do top"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":770.565,"endTime":774.265,"body":"down decision making, but in those"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":770.565,"endTime":774.265,"body":"cases that really ensure that the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":774.265,"endTime":776.985,"body":"engineering team is brought on the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":774.265,"endTime":776.985,"body":"journey and they understand, why"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":776.985,"endTime":778.235,"body":"they're building what they're building."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":778.615,"endTime":781.555,"body":"Because ultimately what culture"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":778.615,"endTime":781.555,"body":"we want to foster is a culture"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":781.555,"endTime":785.635,"body":"where the engineers see a customer"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":781.555,"endTime":785.635,"body":"problem and then feel empowered to."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":786.385,"endTime":787.055,"body":"Go and address it."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":787.555,"endTime":790.615,"body":"And then finally I think it's like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":787.555,"endTime":790.615,"body":"really emphasizing outcome over output."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":790.645,"endTime":794.065,"body":"So it doesn't really matter how much"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":790.645,"endTime":794.065,"body":"time is spent in front of the computer."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":794.265,"endTime":796.035,"body":"It doesn't matter even"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":794.265,"endTime":796.035,"body":"if we deployed a feature."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":796.035,"endTime":798.915,"body":"What really matters is whether"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":796.035,"endTime":798.915,"body":"or not the customer is actually"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":798.915,"endTime":800.105,"body":"deriving value from the feature."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":800.105,"endTime":801.955,"body":"So does it solve their problem?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":802.335,"endTime":806.275,"body":"And if, and ultimately in order to figure"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":802.335,"endTime":806.275,"body":"out if it solved their problem, you need"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":806.275,"endTime":809.695,"body":"to go and, look at the analytics, talk to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":806.275,"endTime":809.695,"body":"the customer and ensure that feature is"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":809.695,"endTime":811.385,"body":"actually doing what we expected it to do."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":812.901,"endTime":815.641,"body":"Yeah, I think that,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":812.901,"endTime":815.641,"body":"including engineers in your strategic"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":815.661,"endTime":819.041,"body":"decision making, I think that's such"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":815.661,"endTime":819.041,"body":"a critical component that, A lot"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":819.041,"endTime":822.091,"body":"of organizations, they either don't"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":819.041,"endTime":822.091,"body":"do it or they think they're doing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":822.091,"endTime":823.781,"body":"it and they don't do it completely."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":823.841,"endTime":827.611,"body":"Like we often hear about this like dual"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":823.841,"endTime":827.611,"body":"mandate that engineering leaders face,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":827.621,"endTime":830.901,"body":"like you, you want to be, you want to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":827.621,"endTime":830.901,"body":"maintain like the highest levels of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":830.901,"endTime":834.141,"body":"operational excellence that you can,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":830.901,"endTime":834.141,"body":"but you always have this business like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":834.141,"endTime":836.521,"body":"demanding things from your organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":836.521,"endTime":839.391,"body":"So how do you have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":836.521,"endTime":839.391,"body":"conversations where you."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":839.631,"endTime":843.091,"body":"Can illustrate that like the business"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":839.631,"endTime":843.091,"body":"wants certain things, but the engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":843.101,"endTime":848.081,"body":"organization has to do other things to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":843.101,"endTime":848.081,"body":"make sure that we can be sustainable"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":848.081,"endTime":852.441,"body":"and we can actually support scalability"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":848.081,"endTime":852.441,"body":"and we don't get overwhelmed with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":852.441,"endTime":854.301,"body":"tech debt and quality issues."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.681,"endTime":854.921,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.921,"endTime":856.831,"body":"So I think, of those things that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.921,"endTime":856.831,"body":"you mentioned, I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":857.821,"endTime":861.961,"body":"in my mind, tends to be the one"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":857.821,"endTime":861.961,"body":"that really is the most important,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":862.011,"endTime":863.961,"body":"but those are all great insights."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":865.23,"endTime":865.86,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":865.86,"endTime":867.42,"body":"I think that's it's pretty challenging."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":867.42,"endTime":871.57,"body":"And something that I always say is we"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":867.42,"endTime":871.57,"body":"really want to align individual's goals"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":871.57,"endTime":873.47,"body":"with overall customer company goals."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":873.67,"endTime":876.56,"body":"with the type of engineer that's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":873.67,"endTime":876.56,"body":"product oriented, when you expose them"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":876.56,"endTime":880.14,"body":"to like the customer directly and the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":876.56,"endTime":880.14,"body":"customer problems they tend to get"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":880.14,"endTime":882.13,"body":"motivated to solve those problems anyway."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":882.13,"endTime":882.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":882.525,"endTime":885.905,"body":"And then it ultimately just comes"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":882.525,"endTime":885.905,"body":"down to, working in the things"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":885.905,"endTime":889.035,"body":"that that, maybe don't seem like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":885.905,"endTime":889.035,"body":"they impact the customer, right?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":889.035,"endTime":891.285,"body":"Like technical debt scalability."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":891.285,"endTime":894.115,"body":"But ultimately, I think all these"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":891.285,"endTime":894.115,"body":"things actually do impact the customer."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":894.445,"endTime":898.715,"body":"In our case, we have to scale our"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":894.445,"endTime":898.715,"body":"platform to ingest, petabytes of data."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":899.235,"endTime":901.865,"body":"Technical debt impacts how"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":899.235,"endTime":901.865,"body":"quickly you can ship code."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":901.875,"endTime":905.845,"body":"So I think all of these things can be spun"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":901.875,"endTime":905.845,"body":"in a way that, they're customer impacting."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":905.846,"endTime":905.91,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":906.15,"endTime":907.56,"body":"and can be prioritized as such."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":907.561,"endTime":910.22,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":910.261,"endTime":913.261,"body":"is if all you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":910.261,"endTime":913.261,"body":"do is focus on new value feature"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":913.261,"endTime":916.501,"body":"enhancements and you're never"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":913.261,"endTime":916.501,"body":"focusing on like maintenance and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":916.501,"endTime":920.691,"body":"keeping the lights on eventually your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":916.501,"endTime":920.691,"body":"entire product roadmap just becomes"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":920.801,"endTime":923.261,"body":"like unexpected work, essentially."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":923.761,"endTime":927.421,"body":"Having a framework to, I think having,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":923.761,"endTime":927.421,"body":"engineers directly involved in that as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":927.421,"endTime":932.221,"body":"a great way to just tighten that like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":927.421,"endTime":932.221,"body":"individual to executive connection or"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":932.261,"endTime":933.961,"body":"strategic connection as you're explaining."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":934.511,"endTime":937.431,"body":"So I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":934.511,"endTime":937.431,"body":"little bit of a segue here and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":937.541,"endTime":940.131,"body":"talk about, some of the current"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":937.541,"endTime":940.131,"body":"trends in software development,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":940.131,"endTime":942.871,"body":"including LLMs and automation and AI."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":943.191,"endTime":946.731,"body":"So how do you think that these types"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":943.191,"endTime":946.731,"body":"of things are going to impact the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":946.731,"endTime":949.101,"body":"role of engineers moving forward?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":949.96,"endTime":950.32,"body":"definitely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":950.32,"endTime":956.11,"body":"I think for me, I was, prior to founding"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":950.32,"endTime":956.11,"body":"SIFT, I was looking for a new role, and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":956.11,"endTime":961.02,"body":"I was interviewing as an engineering"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":956.11,"endTime":961.02,"body":"manager at a company that had used a low"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":961.02,"endTime":964.5,"body":"code tool to build some internal software."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":965.19,"endTime":968.83,"body":"And, this software they were building"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":965.19,"endTime":968.83,"body":"had a lot of complicated business"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":968.83,"endTime":971.23,"body":"logic, but was technically quite simple."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":971.83,"endTime":973.225,"body":"And Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":973.655,"endTime":976.155,"body":"I came to this realization that,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":973.655,"endTime":976.155,"body":"there's a lot of software that's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":976.155,"endTime":979.685,"body":"very in that, never sees especially"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":976.155,"endTime":979.685,"body":"a lot of software that never is used"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":979.685,"endTime":981.065,"body":"by anybody outside of a company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":981.555,"endTime":983.775,"body":"And a lot of that software is"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":981.555,"endTime":983.775,"body":"very technically simple, right?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":983.775,"endTime":986.435,"body":"So it's probably just a form"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":983.775,"endTime":986.435,"body":"sitting on top of a database."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":986.995,"endTime":991.715,"body":"And I realized that because"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":986.995,"endTime":991.715,"body":"tools to build software are"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":991.715,"endTime":993.105,"body":"getting easier and easier to use."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":993.105,"endTime":998.465,"body":"So low code tools, LLMs are obviously"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":993.105,"endTime":998.465,"body":"making it really simple to, to build apps."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":999.73,"endTime":1002.45,"body":"In fact, we just interviewed a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":999.73,"endTime":1002.45,"body":"product manager who was building"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1002.79,"endTime":1006.67,"body":"their own mobile app using Cursor."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1008.36,"endTime":1011.28,"body":"It made me realize that the people"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1008.36,"endTime":1011.28,"body":"who will write the best software"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1011.28,"endTime":1014.93,"body":"will probably have a better"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1011.28,"endTime":1014.93,"body":"understanding of the business domain."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1015.43,"endTime":1018.95,"body":"Of course, there's always going to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1015.43,"endTime":1018.95,"body":"be technically complex software that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1018.95,"endTime":1020.51,"body":"needs to be written by great engineers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1020.55,"endTime":1023.88,"body":"After all, somebody has to go and build"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1020.55,"endTime":1023.88,"body":"the LLMs or build these low code tools."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1023.901,"endTime":1027.681,"body":"But I think those roles will either,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1023.901,"endTime":1027.681,"body":"maintain their current availability"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1027.681,"endTime":1028.931,"body":"or even become more scarce."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1029.271,"endTime":1033.951,"body":"So really having this kind of product"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1029.271,"endTime":1033.951,"body":"oriented mindset is how you can,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1033.961,"endTime":1036.011,"body":"continue to thrive as an engineer."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1036.982,"endTime":1037.202,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1037.212,"endTime":1042.292,"body":"If you have generative AI tooling,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1037.212,"endTime":1042.292,"body":"like both making it easier to adopt new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1042.292,"endTime":1046.972,"body":"technologies because you can rapidly"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1042.292,"endTime":1046.972,"body":"onboard new skills and knowledge a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1046.972,"endTime":1052.392,"body":"faster, but then also, we're seeing it"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1046.972,"endTime":1052.392,"body":"remove a lot of the toil and nitty gritty"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1052.392,"endTime":1057.622,"body":"details of having to produce software"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1052.392,"endTime":1057.622,"body":"Yeah, it really does make sense that like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1057.632,"endTime":1062.172,"body":"it frees up the human to focus more on the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1057.632,"endTime":1062.172,"body":"problems rather than the actual technical"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1062.222,"endTime":1064.752,"body":"capabilities that have to be implemented."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1065.342,"endTime":1068.722,"body":"Given that this is happening or this,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1065.342,"endTime":1068.722,"body":"you think this trend is happening"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1069.227,"endTime":1073.137,"body":"how can engineers like bridge that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1069.227,"endTime":1073.137,"body":"gap and become more business savvy?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1073.137,"endTime":1077.107,"body":"If they want to start being more"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1073.137,"endTime":1077.107,"body":"focused on end users, like how"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1077.107,"endTime":1078.417,"body":"can they start that journey?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1078.901,"endTime":1079.371,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1079.401,"endTime":1079.631,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1079.631,"endTime":1080.861,"body":"This is a really great question."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1080.861,"endTime":1083.931,"body":"I think, to start it really helps"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1080.861,"endTime":1083.931,"body":"to work with great product managers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1084.271,"endTime":1086.941,"body":"So for example, when I was at"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1084.271,"endTime":1086.941,"body":"SpaceX, I worked with a group of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1086.941,"endTime":1090.171,"body":"folks who had previously worked"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1086.941,"endTime":1090.171,"body":"in the manufacturing sector."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1090.171,"endTime":1094.011,"body":"So they had basically built software"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1090.171,"endTime":1094.011,"body":"for automotive manufacturing aerospace"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1094.011,"endTime":1100.031,"body":"manufacturing, and through them, I was"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1094.011,"endTime":1100.031,"body":"able to learn a lot of the intricacies"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1100.101,"endTime":1101.771,"body":"of the processes in that business."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1102.281,"endTime":1105.731,"body":"But also something else that I got at"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1102.281,"endTime":1105.731,"body":"SpaceX was really firsthand experience."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1106.051,"endTime":1109.136,"body":"In my case, that was building"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1106.051,"endTime":1109.136,"body":"software, building Walking on the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1109.136,"endTime":1113.186,"body":"factory floor, watching technicians"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1109.136,"endTime":1113.186,"body":"use our software to build rocket"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1113.186,"endTime":1117.066,"body":"engines, going up to them, asking them"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1113.186,"endTime":1117.066,"body":"questions about it, observing them."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1118.196,"endTime":1120.866,"body":"And that really helped, I"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1118.196,"endTime":1120.866,"body":"think, build a better sense"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1120.866,"endTime":1122.286,"body":"for how the product should act."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1122.926,"endTime":1126.186,"body":"Here at SIFT, as I mentioned, we have"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1122.926,"endTime":1126.186,"body":"a forward deployed engineering team"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1127.006,"endTime":1128.466,"body":"that previously used tools like these."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1128.466,"endTime":1131.016,"body":"So that's another way that our"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1128.466,"endTime":1131.016,"body":"team can get, first hand knowledge"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1131.016,"endTime":1132.416,"body":"of how the tool should be used."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1133.876,"endTime":1137.246,"body":"So that's number one, which is trying to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1133.876,"endTime":1137.246,"body":"get, hands on or first hand experience."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1138.426,"endTime":1141.616,"body":"But secondary, it's like spending as"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1138.426,"endTime":1141.616,"body":"much time with customers as you can."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1141.616,"endTime":1144.856,"body":"Now, of course, this is a little"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1141.616,"endTime":1144.856,"body":"dangerous, you can always spend, you"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1144.856,"endTime":1147.556,"body":"need to still go back to your desk"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1144.856,"endTime":1147.556,"body":"and be able to get some work done."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1148.026,"endTime":1151.706,"body":"But ultimately, like getting in front"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1148.026,"endTime":1151.706,"body":"of customers, whether that's whether"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1151.706,"endTime":1156.336,"body":"that's visiting customers on site having,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1151.706,"endTime":1156.336,"body":"sitting in on meetings with customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1156.556,"endTime":1160.526,"body":"In our case, it's showing"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1156.556,"endTime":1160.526,"body":"our projects to customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1160.816,"endTime":1164.876,"body":"Before we begin on them and then getting"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1160.816,"endTime":1164.876,"body":"feedback as we're implementing them."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1165.296,"endTime":1167.416,"body":"And then having direct"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1165.296,"endTime":1167.416,"body":"lines of communication with,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1167.636,"endTime":1168.826,"body":"communications with customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1168.836,"endTime":1170.846,"body":"Slack is actually a great tool for this."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1170.946,"endTime":1173.196,"body":"Slack Connect, being connected to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1170.946,"endTime":1173.196,"body":"all of your customers and being"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1173.196,"endTime":1174.596,"body":"able to reach out to them directly."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1175.186,"endTime":1178.256,"body":"And then I think the final thing I'll"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1175.186,"endTime":1178.256,"body":"mention here too because I have gone back"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1178.256,"endTime":1182.386,"body":"and forth on this a lot, but, specializing"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1178.256,"endTime":1182.386,"body":"in a business domain helps because there's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1182.406,"endTime":1183.826,"body":"a, you can just get deeper and deeper."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1184.351,"endTime":1188.291,"body":"So when I was at SpaceX, I worked on"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1184.351,"endTime":1188.291,"body":"manufacturing problems and then I left"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1188.291,"endTime":1191.961,"body":"briefly to work in the game industry,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1188.291,"endTime":1191.961,"body":"and that was a great experience, but"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1191.971,"endTime":1195.241,"body":"ultimately I realized that kind of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1191.971,"endTime":1195.241,"body":"manufacturing, hard tech was where I"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1195.241,"endTime":1198.301,"body":"wanted to build my career, and that's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1195.241,"endTime":1198.301,"body":"what we're doing here at SIFT, and I"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1198.311,"endTime":1201.371,"body":"think ultimately that's probably where"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1198.311,"endTime":1201.371,"body":"I'll end up spending most of my time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1203.057,"endTime":1206.037,"body":"Yeah, I love the,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1203.057,"endTime":1206.037,"body":"getting closer to your customers."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1206.127,"endTime":1209.277,"body":"But yeah, I think it is warranted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1206.127,"endTime":1209.277,"body":"to call out that it can be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1209.277,"endTime":1210.607,"body":"dangerous sometimes, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1210.657,"endTime":1214.807,"body":"Like engineers aren't like typically"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1210.657,"endTime":1214.807,"body":"the person that is the most skilled at"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1214.807,"endTime":1218.267,"body":"going in front of a customer and trying"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1214.807,"endTime":1218.267,"body":"to be persuasive or stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1218.267,"endTime":1218.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1218.567,"endTime":1221.747,"body":"I'm someone who also has to go into"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1218.567,"endTime":1221.747,"body":"to customer conversations quite"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1221.757,"endTime":1223.687,"body":"frequently as in like a technical role."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1224.307,"endTime":1226.847,"body":"But, and there's other"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1224.307,"endTime":1226.847,"body":"alternatives to that as well."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1226.847,"endTime":1233.667,"body":"You can use like data to be a proxy for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1226.847,"endTime":1233.667,"body":"your users, or I frequently love to watch."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1233.857,"endTime":1237.407,"body":"Calls that we have with our customers"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1233.857,"endTime":1237.407,"body":"or with prospects just to see, like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1237.727,"endTime":1241.467,"body":"when they're being exposed to like our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1237.727,"endTime":1241.467,"body":"platform or to new things that we're"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1241.467,"endTime":1243.437,"body":"doing, like, how do they respond to it?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1243.437,"endTime":1246.237,"body":"Do they actually want, seem"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1243.437,"endTime":1246.237,"body":"to want to engage with it?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1246.327,"endTime":1248.917,"body":"So yeah, I think even if you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1246.327,"endTime":1248.917,"body":"don't get directly involved with a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1248.927,"endTime":1251.937,"body":"customer conversation, like maybe"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1248.927,"endTime":1251.937,"body":"you're a developer that just like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1251.957,"endTime":1257.177,"body":"terrifies I think there are a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1251.957,"endTime":1257.177,"body":"of like new ways now to start, to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1257.187,"endTime":1259.007,"body":"at least get like proxies for that."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1259.511,"endTime":1260.131,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1260.211,"endTime":1264.651,"body":"Our Forward to Flight engineering"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1260.211,"endTime":1264.651,"body":"team is actually curating content"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1264.661,"endTime":1267.171,"body":"from customer conversations to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1264.661,"endTime":1267.171,"body":"share with the engineering team."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1267.571,"endTime":1270.951,"body":"So that's a really great way of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1267.571,"endTime":1270.951,"body":"getting exposure without going"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1270.951,"endTime":1272.731,"body":"and sitting in on a meeting."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1273.231,"endTime":1276.491,"body":"I think to your point too it's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1273.231,"endTime":1276.491,"body":"really easy to over index on"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1276.491,"endTime":1278.051,"body":"maybe one customer, for example."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1278.291,"endTime":1280.301,"body":"And different companies have"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1278.291,"endTime":1280.301,"body":"different ways of doing things."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1280.301,"endTime":1283.201,"body":"So if you're building a tool that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1280.301,"endTime":1283.201,"body":"is, going to be used in their"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1283.201,"endTime":1285.861,"body":"internal processes, you could"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1283.201,"endTime":1285.861,"body":"pretty quickly build a tool that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1285.861,"endTime":1287.901,"body":"maybe overfits to that company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1288.236,"endTime":1291.176,"body":"It's important to both get a broad"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1288.236,"endTime":1291.176,"body":"perspective, but then also cross"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1291.176,"endTime":1295.536,"body":"reference that with what you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1291.176,"endTime":1295.536,"body":"like analytics screen recordings,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1295.546,"endTime":1299.696,"body":"various tools you can use now to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1295.546,"endTime":1299.696,"body":"understand the total, get a really better"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1299.696,"endTime":1301.416,"body":"picture of the customer and the user."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1302.592,"endTime":1302.862,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1302.862,"endTime":1307.982,"body":"So you mentioned that you have this like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1302.862,"endTime":1307.982,"body":"forward deployed engineering team in"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1307.982,"endTime":1311.612,"body":"your experience, like what are the, like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1307.982,"endTime":1311.612,"body":"some of the traits or the qualities that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1311.622,"endTime":1315.352,"body":"you typically see in like the people"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1311.622,"endTime":1315.352,"body":"who do that type of role versus like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1315.352,"endTime":1317.372,"body":"the other side of your engineering team?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1318.236,"endTime":1319.626,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1318.236,"endTime":1319.626,"body":"actually a good question."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1319.646,"endTime":1322.946,"body":"To be honest with you, this is not a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1319.646,"endTime":1322.946,"body":"function that I've previously worked with."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1323.481,"endTime":1326.931,"body":"So it's still trying to feel out,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1323.481,"endTime":1326.931,"body":"like where do you draw the line?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1327.411,"endTime":1332.241,"body":"And ultimately, I actually had a lot"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1327.411,"endTime":1332.241,"body":"of hesitation in building a forward"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1332.241,"endTime":1335.331,"body":"deployed engineering team because"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1332.241,"endTime":1335.331,"body":"it always felt like something that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1335.331,"endTime":1336.681,"body":"would turn into more of a crutch,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1337.051,"endTime":1338.701,"body":"Than it would be an accelerant."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1339.161,"endTime":1342.241,"body":"Because we would ultimately, rely on these"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1339.161,"endTime":1342.241,"body":"people to fill in the gap between where"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1342.241,"endTime":1344.701,"body":"the product is and where the customer is."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1345.211,"endTime":1349.916,"body":"But what I realized was It has"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1345.211,"endTime":1349.916,"body":"actually helped us learn more about"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1349.916,"endTime":1353.716,"body":"our customers more quickly because we"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1349.916,"endTime":1353.716,"body":"have a more touch points and a higher"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1353.716,"endTime":1355.156,"body":"surface area with the customers."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1355.716,"endTime":1360.596,"body":"So what, what makes those people"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1355.716,"endTime":1360.596,"body":"different or what are the traits that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1360.596,"endTime":1361.886,"body":"they have that our engineers don't?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1361.936,"endTime":1365.966,"body":"I would say generally, It's really"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1361.936,"endTime":1365.966,"body":"more of a domain experience type thing."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1365.976,"endTime":1369.446,"body":"So these people, as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1365.976,"endTime":1369.446,"body":"have all worked, in this role."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1369.776,"endTime":1372.446,"body":"And actually, the type of software"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1369.776,"endTime":1372.446,"body":"engineering that they were doing"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1372.696,"endTime":1375.236,"body":"in that role is very different from"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1372.696,"endTime":1375.236,"body":"the type of engineering that we"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1375.236,"endTime":1377.106,"body":"do in our core engineering team."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1377.106,"endTime":1382.176,"body":"We're building a big data and"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1377.106,"endTime":1382.176,"body":"full stack web application."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1382.546,"endTime":1385.096,"body":"And So the skill sets you need"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1382.546,"endTime":1385.096,"body":"for that are inherently different"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1385.096,"endTime":1388.526,"body":"than if you're basically writing"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1385.096,"endTime":1388.526,"body":"code that runs on a spacecraft."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1389.006,"endTime":1391.406,"body":"So the Forward Deployment"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1389.006,"endTime":1391.406,"body":"Engineering team, they have that"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1391.486,"endTime":1393.846,"body":"spacecraft coding experience."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1393.976,"endTime":1398.196,"body":"They also have the experience of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1393.976,"endTime":1398.196,"body":"testing spacecraft so they can deploy"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1398.236,"endTime":1400.306,"body":"or employ that engineering knowledge."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1400.576,"endTime":1401.986,"body":"But then what they bring to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1400.576,"endTime":1401.986,"body":"the table is actually the"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1401.986,"endTime":1403.226,"body":"experience of doing that role."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1403.666,"endTime":1406.406,"body":"So if they were to come in, work"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1403.666,"endTime":1406.406,"body":"in our core engineering team, they"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1406.406,"endTime":1409.646,"body":"wouldn't necessarily have the skillset"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1406.406,"endTime":1409.646,"body":"that's necessary to go and build"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1409.646,"endTime":1411.046,"body":"a big data system, for example."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1412.762,"endTime":1415.132,"body":"Yeah, and on your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1412.762,"endTime":1415.132,"body":"point with the, having more touch"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1415.132,"endTime":1418.152,"body":"points from this forward deployed"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1415.132,"endTime":1418.152,"body":"team, there's some products out"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1418.152,"endTime":1422.352,"body":"there that just have much longer"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1418.152,"endTime":1422.352,"body":"adoption cycles than other products."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1422.692,"endTime":1427.732,"body":"Often because there's some major technical"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1422.692,"endTime":1427.732,"body":"challenges or customization, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1428.312,"endTime":1431.622,"body":"And yeah, I, I do resonate with that a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1428.312,"endTime":1431.622,"body":"little bit that, you know, having that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1431.622,"endTime":1437.172,"body":"technical team more involved with the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1431.622,"endTime":1437.172,"body":"customer really gives them through, if"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1437.172,"endTime":1441.012,"body":"you have a more extended cycle, it gives"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1437.172,"endTime":1441.012,"body":"that customer a lot more confidence"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1441.082,"endTime":1445.252,"body":"in your company's ability to actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1441.082,"endTime":1445.252,"body":"deliver the things that you're telling"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1445.252,"endTime":1446.352,"body":"them that you're going to deliver."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1447.142,"endTime":1447.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1448.186,"endTime":1448.686,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1448.686,"endTime":1448.846,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1448.846,"endTime":1454.836,"body":"I want, we have very technical customers"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1448.846,"endTime":1454.836,"body":"and also we have very many user personas."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1455.446,"endTime":1461.156,"body":"So we have people who are responsible"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1455.446,"endTime":1461.156,"body":"for SIFT at their company and integrating"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1461.186,"endTime":1465.516,"body":"their various tools with SIFT and then we"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1461.186,"endTime":1465.516,"body":"also have software engineers who use SIFT."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1465.816,"endTime":1469.736,"body":"We have hardware engineers who use SIFT,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1465.816,"endTime":1469.736,"body":"manufacturing technicians who use SIFT."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1470.206,"endTime":1472.456,"body":"So we need to tailor our"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1470.206,"endTime":1472.456,"body":"communication to each of them."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1472.466,"endTime":1477.956,"body":"And I think for many of those customers,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1472.466,"endTime":1477.956,"body":"it helps or they appreciate interacting"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1477.966,"endTime":1479.506,"body":"with people that are highly technical."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1480.222,"endTime":1480.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1480.482,"endTime":1484.502,"body":"I'm interested out of all those groups"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1480.482,"endTime":1484.502,"body":"you just listed, or any of them the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1484.512,"endTime":1488.282,"body":"ones where they benefit in particular"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1484.512,"endTime":1488.282,"body":"from having this forward deployed"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1488.362,"endTime":1490.152,"body":"team, or is it just across the board?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1491.876,"endTime":1493.046,"body":"Yeah, good question."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1493.096,"endTime":1497.731,"body":"I think certainly if you're"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1493.096,"endTime":1497.731,"body":"responsible for owning SIFT so just"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1497.731,"endTime":1502.361,"body":"to maybe back up, typically what"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1497.731,"endTime":1502.361,"body":"we find is our customers have built"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1502.371,"endTime":1504.351,"body":"some version of this tool in house."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1504.691,"endTime":1507.511,"body":"So they have a small team that is"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1507.741,"endTime":1509.121,"body":"building and maintaining that tool."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1509.391,"endTime":1513.271,"body":"And now that team can go and work"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1509.391,"endTime":1513.271,"body":"on other problems that are more"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1513.271,"endTime":1515.721,"body":"core to the business of the company."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1516.151,"endTime":1519.361,"body":"But somebody on that team might be"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1516.151,"endTime":1519.361,"body":"responsible now for integrating Sift So of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1519.361,"endTime":1521.361,"body":"course they're very, really appreciated."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1521.886,"endTime":1524.356,"body":"The Forward Deployed Engineering"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1521.886,"endTime":1524.356,"body":"team coming in and helping them"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1524.726,"endTime":1528.076,"body":"get the various devices, vehicles,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1524.726,"endTime":1528.076,"body":"machines hooked up to SIFT."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1528.496,"endTime":1531.166,"body":"And then I think secondary to that,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1528.496,"endTime":1531.166,"body":"there's the Hardware Engineering team"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1532.066,"endTime":1537.216,"body":"who benefits from the Forward Deployed"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1532.066,"endTime":1537.216,"body":"Engineers because they get to see how"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1537.216,"endTime":1542.516,"body":"to use a tool and they get help from"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1537.216,"endTime":1542.516,"body":"the Forward Deployed Engineers in"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1542.586,"endTime":1547.846,"body":"basically configuring the tool to help"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1542.586,"endTime":1547.846,"body":"them find problems in their vehicles."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1550.707,"endTime":1555.407,"body":"Yeah, I personally"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1550.707,"endTime":1555.407,"body":"love meeting teams who have already built"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1555.467,"endTime":1561.697,"body":"a solution that I help sell in house"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1555.467,"endTime":1561.697,"body":"because those teams always know how big"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1561.707,"endTime":1566.137,"body":"the problem is, and they also know that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1561.707,"endTime":1566.137,"body":"an expert can be a massive help to them."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1566.547,"endTime":1569.017,"body":"So they tend to be the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1566.547,"endTime":1569.017,"body":"easiest conversations, so I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1569.017,"endTime":1570.237,"body":"definitely understand that one."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1571.856,"endTime":1575.076,"body":"Yeah, it goes back to"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1571.856,"endTime":1575.076,"body":"having a unique perspective on a problem."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1575.706,"endTime":1577.216,"body":"And then, building a company around that."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1577.316,"endTime":1581.296,"body":"It's definitely been, it's made"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1577.316,"endTime":1581.296,"body":"it, I don't want to say easier,"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1581.296,"endTime":1585.316,"body":"but it's certainly been helpful in"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1581.296,"endTime":1585.316,"body":"getting customers and ultimately"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1585.316,"endTime":1586.516,"body":"helping them solve their problems."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1587.862,"endTime":1588.182,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1588.202,"endTime":1592.802,"body":"So do you have any other advice for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1588.202,"endTime":1592.802,"body":"engineering engineers or engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1592.812,"endTime":1597.122,"body":"leaders that want to transition"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1592.812,"endTime":1597.122,"body":"into a more product oriented role?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1598.486,"endTime":1600.046,"body":"Yeah, I thought"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1598.486,"endTime":1600.046,"body":"about this because I feel like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1600.326,"endTime":1601.866,"body":"the whole conversation has been"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1601.966,"endTime":1603.166,"body":"about this, right?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1603.166,"endTime":1604.626,"body":"Ultimately, I think it just goes back to."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1605.916,"endTime":1610.056,"body":"What is recognizing in yourself, like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1605.916,"endTime":1610.056,"body":"what makes you motivated and what"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1610.056,"endTime":1611.716,"body":"makes you excited and happy to work?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1611.766,"endTime":1615.296,"body":"I don't necessarily think this"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1611.766,"endTime":1615.296,"body":"needs to be a role for everybody."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1615.296,"endTime":1618.996,"body":"And as I mentioned, there are phenomenal"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1615.296,"endTime":1618.996,"body":"engineers who would prefer to spend"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1618.996,"endTime":1621.236,"body":"their time in deep technical problems."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1621.276,"endTime":1622.796,"body":"And there are plenty of"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1621.276,"endTime":1622.796,"body":"opportunities for that."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1622.906,"endTime":1626.526,"body":"But if this is something that you're"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1622.906,"endTime":1626.526,"body":"genuinely interested in I think"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1626.596,"endTime":1630.186,"body":"ultimately spending more time with"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1626.596,"endTime":1630.186,"body":"customers, spending time around"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1630.216,"endTime":1631.816,"body":"great product managers as well."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1632.206,"endTime":1633.966,"body":"And getting experience from them."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1634.506,"endTime":1637.326,"body":"I think something that I thought"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1634.506,"endTime":1637.326,"body":"of as well for maybe developing a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1637.326,"endTime":1639.146,"body":"product sense was being curious."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1639.606,"endTime":1641.356,"body":"So teaching yourself new things."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1641.696,"endTime":1645.216,"body":"If you're working on SAS products, like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1641.696,"endTime":1645.216,"body":"using different SAS products is actually a"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1645.216,"endTime":1647.066,"body":"great way to build a better product sense."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1647.436,"endTime":1650.886,"body":"There's a big conversation I think"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1647.436,"endTime":1650.886,"body":"about linear and how linear has"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1650.886,"endTime":1654.156,"body":"been a much nicer user experience."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1654.661,"endTime":1657.411,"body":"And a much more opinionated"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1654.661,"endTime":1657.411,"body":"user experience than Jira"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1657.411,"endTime":1658.561,"body":"has been, for example, right?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1658.561,"endTime":1662.771,"body":"And I think, trying new tools like"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1658.561,"endTime":1662.771,"body":"that to better conform what what is"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1662.771,"endTime":1666.821,"body":"good or what is challenging or what"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1662.771,"endTime":1666.821,"body":"challenges people is another good way"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1666.821,"endTime":1668.281,"body":"to, to develop a good product sense."},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1668.731,"endTime":1671.781,"body":"And then, yeah, that, that's"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1668.731,"endTime":1671.781,"body":"how I would start this journey."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1671.831,"endTime":1674.571,"body":"Austin, thank"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1671.831,"endTime":1674.571,"body":"you so much for joining me today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1674.621,"endTime":1676.831,"body":"We'll have some links in the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1674.621,"endTime":1676.831,"body":"show notes to some of the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1676.851,"endTime":1678.661,"body":"resources we talked about today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1679.121,"endTime":1681.511,"body":"If people want to follow you,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1679.121,"endTime":1681.511,"body":"where should they head to?"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1682.83,"endTime":1685.54,"body":"they"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1682.83,"endTime":1685.54,"body":"can follow Sift Stack on"},{"speaker":"Austin Spiegel","startTime":1685.6,"endTime":1685.79,"body":"LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1687.496,"endTime":1687.956,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1688.536,"endTime":1689.346,"body":"Thanks again."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1689.426,"endTime":1691.266,"body":"And that's it for today's show."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1691.436,"endTime":1694.806,"body":"If you're looking for more insight"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1691.436,"endTime":1694.806,"body":"from engineering leaders like Austin,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1695.126,"endTime":1698.186,"body":"head over to the Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1695.126,"endTime":1698.186,"body":"sub stack for weekly news and deep"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1698.186,"endTime":1701.666,"body":"dives on the latest research in"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1698.186,"endTime":1701.666,"body":"developer productivity and experience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1701.946,"endTime":1704.966,"body":"And don't forget to subscribe to our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1701.946,"endTime":1704.966,"body":"YouTube channel, where we put all of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1704.966,"endTime":1706.676,"body":"our favorite moments from each episode."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1706.676,"endTime":1710.826,"body":"And we also deeply appreciate it"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1706.676,"endTime":1710.826,"body":"when you give us a rating on your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1710.826,"endTime":1714.196,"body":"favorite podcast app, because that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1710.826,"endTime":1714.196,"body":"really helps us spread the word."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1714.796,"endTime":1718.946,"body":"Lastly, we also love to hear from our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1714.796,"endTime":1718.946,"body":"audience, so you can connect with me"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1718.946,"endTime":1724.256,"body":"directly on LinkedIn at Ben Lloyd Pearson,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1718.946,"endTime":1724.256,"body":"or find this podcast also on LinkedIn at"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1724.256,"endTime":1726.536,"body":"Dev Interrupted, and thanks for joining."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1726.786,"endTime":1727.576,"body":"We'll see you next week."}]}