{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":0.299,"endTime":1.699,"body":"Don't mind me"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":0.299,"endTime":1.699,"body":"just derailing the episode."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1.7,"endTime":3.349,"body":"I'm like, I'm done hosting this thing."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":3.349,"endTime":4.309,"body":"I can just derail now."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":4.309,"endTime":5.29,"body":"I'm a guest."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":5.29,"endTime":6.38,"body":"I get to screw around."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":6.403,"endTime":7.862,"body":"You mean"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":6.403,"endTime":7.862,"body":"this isn't going in?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":9.009,"endTime":10.41,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":9.009,"endTime":10.41,"body":"sure some of it will."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":10.67,"endTime":12.46,"body":"Adam's already thinking"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":10.67,"endTime":12.46,"body":"about the video clip he's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":12.49,"endTime":13.35,"body":"going to get off this."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":13.383,"endTime":14.603,"body":"He loves a good blooper."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":14.603,"endTime":16.693,"body":"This might be the intro to the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":14.603,"endTime":16.693,"body":"whole episode probably now."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":25.942,"endTime":28.562,"body":"Hey everyone,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":25.942,"endTime":28.562,"body":"welcome back to Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":28.862,"endTime":33.739,"body":"I'm Ben Lloyd Pearson, your host,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":28.862,"endTime":33.739,"body":"and I'm thrilled to be joined by our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":33.919,"endTime":38.699,"body":"former current host, I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":33.919,"endTime":38.699,"body":"yet, Conor Bronson, and our newest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":38.699,"endTime":40.149,"body":"addition to the team, Andrew Ziegler."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":40.329,"endTime":42.486,"body":"So it's great for both of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":40.329,"endTime":42.486,"body":"you to be here with us today."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":42.882,"endTime":43.462,"body":"Hey everyone."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":43.472,"endTime":44.052,"body":"Great to be back."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":44.052,"endTime":45.342,"body":"And Andrew, fantastic to meet you."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":45.342,"endTime":46.672,"body":"I'm excited to see what"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":45.342,"endTime":46.672,"body":"you do with the show."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":46.803,"endTime":48.013,"body":"Hey,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":46.803,"endTime":48.013,"body":"thanks for bringing me on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":48.013,"endTime":50.383,"body":"You know, I'm excited to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":48.013,"endTime":50.383,"body":"here and carry the mantle."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":50.383,"endTime":53.463,"body":"And then I hope everyone keeps being"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":50.383,"endTime":53.463,"body":"honest in the comments going forward."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":53.831,"endTime":56.401,"body":"Yeah, and yort of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":53.831,"endTime":56.401,"body":"why there's a bit of confusion about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":56.431,"endTime":59.971,"body":"current or former, I mean, to us, you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":56.431,"endTime":59.971,"body":"actually been, you've been gone for a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":59.971,"endTime":63.271,"body":"little while, but to the Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":59.971,"endTime":63.271,"body":"community, you've actually been a host"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":63.281,"endTime":66.661,"body":"up until, I think, just a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":63.281,"endTime":66.661,"body":"weeks ago, but, you know, I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":66.661,"endTime":70.72,"body":"bring you back for, what's become kind"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":66.661,"endTime":70.72,"body":"of an annual tradition for us, this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":70.72,"endTime":72.32,"body":"holiday episode that we're having."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":72.88,"endTime":74.37,"body":"and you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":72.88,"endTime":74.37,"body":"little bittersweet, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":74.37,"endTime":77.41,"body":"Cause I mean, we have you back and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":74.37,"endTime":77.41,"body":"it's great to see your, your face again"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":77.41,"endTime":81.13,"body":"and hear your voice, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":77.41,"endTime":81.13,"body":"holidays like this is all about like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":81.19,"endTime":84.87,"body":"spending time with, the people you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":81.19,"endTime":84.87,"body":"care about, looking back on what you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":84.87,"endTime":88.723,"body":"accomplished and, think about What you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":84.87,"endTime":88.723,"body":"can start to celebrate in the new year,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":89.133,"endTime":93.363,"body":"So, you know, we may be saying"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":89.133,"endTime":93.363,"body":"goodbye to you after this episode,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":93.403,"endTime":96.973,"body":"but actually just one sneak peek, we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":93.403,"endTime":96.973,"body":"will have one more episode next year"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":96.973,"endTime":98.903,"body":"where you'll pop back in as our host."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":99.523,"endTime":100.753,"body":"this is our farewell to you."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":100.753,"endTime":104.313,"body":"And I really wanted to give you an"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":100.753,"endTime":104.313,"body":"opportunity to, share your reflections"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":104.313,"endTime":107.803,"body":"with our audience before we officially"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":104.313,"endTime":107.803,"body":"send you out the, out the door."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":108.423,"endTime":108.633,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":108.633,"endTime":111.723,"body":"And then, you know, as a part of that,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":108.633,"endTime":111.723,"body":"we're also welcoming Andrew to our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":111.723,"endTime":114.613,"body":"team here at Dev Interrupted, who's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":111.723,"endTime":114.613,"body":"going to be a regular on this show."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":114.613,"endTime":118.853,"body":"And in fact, he may end up being a host"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":114.613,"endTime":118.853,"body":"on most of the episodes moving forward."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":118.853,"endTime":122.273,"body":"So if you listened to last week, you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":118.853,"endTime":122.273,"body":"got the chance to hear him for the first"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":122.293,"endTime":124.783,"body":"time, but you'll be hearing a lot more."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":124.913,"endTime":128.013,"body":"So thanks again for both of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":124.913,"endTime":128.013,"body":"you for coming here today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":128.073,"endTime":132.323,"body":"And I know it's a lot of news for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":128.073,"endTime":132.323,"body":"our audience to digest right now."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":132.722,"endTime":133.485,"body":"I, I love it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":133.485,"endTime":136.813,"body":"it's been an incredible, four"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":133.485,"endTime":136.813,"body":"years with Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":137.058,"endTime":140.303,"body":"building the show, working with you,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":137.058,"endTime":140.303,"body":"Ben, working with Dan, obviously"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":140.313,"endTime":143.849,"body":"the amazing production crew,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":140.313,"endTime":143.849,"body":"Jackson, Adam, Chris, everyone"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":143.849,"endTime":145.259,"body":"who's been involved over the years."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":145.479,"endTime":149.629,"body":"And I just can't wait to see where you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":145.479,"endTime":149.629,"body":"two and Dan take the show next year."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":149.879,"endTime":152.639,"body":"there's such an opportunity for Dev"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":149.879,"endTime":152.639,"body":"Interrupted to continue to be the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":152.649,"endTime":156.659,"body":"central hub for engineering leaders and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":152.649,"endTime":156.659,"body":"engineers who want to become leaders"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":156.759,"endTime":162.569,"body":"to have a community, to have insights"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":156.759,"endTime":162.569,"body":"and hopefully continue to content."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":162.674,"endTime":165.854,"body":"I look forward to continuing to listen"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":162.674,"endTime":165.854,"body":"to the show every week, uh, even if"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":165.854,"endTime":166.904,"body":"I'm not going to be a part of it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":166.904,"endTime":170.214,"body":"And, I'll say for our listeners, you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":166.904,"endTime":170.214,"body":"can always find me on LinkedIn as well."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":170.214,"endTime":171.304,"body":"So don't hesitate to reach out."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":171.304,"endTime":172.504,"body":"I love hearing from you all."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":172.554,"endTime":175.574,"body":"And, uh, yeah, Ben, Andrew, just so"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":172.554,"endTime":175.574,"body":"excited to see what you do with the show."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":176.502,"endTime":176.812,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":176.812,"endTime":180.662,"body":"And, you know, I personally am just"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":176.812,"endTime":180.662,"body":"extremely grateful for the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":180.662,"endTime":182.192,"body":"to continue the success of DI."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":182.832,"endTime":185.872,"body":"So, you know, looking forward, like I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":182.832,"endTime":185.872,"body":"really think there are opportunities"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":185.882,"endTime":186.722,"body":"for us to take the next step."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":186.872,"endTime":190.442,"body":"What we've been given, this gift"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":186.872,"endTime":190.442,"body":"that we've been given to new heights."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":190.472,"endTime":193.322,"body":"our audience is really engaged with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":190.472,"endTime":193.322,"body":"the, with the things that we cover."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":193.322,"endTime":196.182,"body":"So, you know, I think there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd 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it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":211.953,"endTime":215.718,"body":"So, I've Come up with a, would you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":211.953,"endTime":215.718,"body":"rather, like, let's do some, would"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":215.718,"endTime":219.088,"body":"you rather questions like with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":215.718,"endTime":219.088,"body":"a little bit of a holiday twist."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":219.538,"endTime":223.058,"body":"so I know each one of us has come"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":219.538,"endTime":223.058,"body":"up with one and Andrew, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":223.258,"endTime":224.758,"body":"you're up first on this one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":225.352,"endTime":228.322,"body":"Yeah, so I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":225.352,"endTime":228.322,"body":"put together a really nerdy one to kick"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":228.322,"endTime":231.472,"body":"things off something that, uh, really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":228.322,"endTime":231.472,"body":"you have to use your imagination."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":231.812,"endTime":238.432,"body":"So would you rather debug the navigation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":231.812,"endTime":238.432,"body":"system on Santa's sleigh on Christmas Eve?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":238.802,"endTime":243.507,"body":"Or would you rather fix a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":238.802,"endTime":243.507,"body":"production bug On your company's e"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":243.507,"endTime":245.727,"body":"commerce platform on Black Friday."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":247.301,"endTime":248.651,"body":"Oof, man."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":248.761,"endTime":253.491,"body":"You know, I have, I have actually quite"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":248.761,"endTime":253.491,"body":"a few, or I've seen quite a few reactions"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":253.491,"endTime":258.861,"body":"about the stress that engineers that do"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":253.491,"endTime":258.861,"body":"e commerce, Deal with this time of year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":259.141,"endTime":261.231,"body":"Like, I don't think it's really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":259.141,"endTime":261.231,"body":"even Black Friday anymore."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":261.231,"endTime":264.541,"body":"It's like an entire like month and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":261.231,"endTime":264.541,"body":"a half period where they, like, they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":264.541,"endTime":268.421,"body":"have to have like five, nine uptime,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd 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ever"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":281.746,"endTime":286.596,"body":"worked in engineering long enough does"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":281.746,"endTime":286.596,"body":"of crashing our production system."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":287.006,"endTime":291.556,"body":"And, there was, I think about a 20 minute"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":287.006,"endTime":291.556,"body":"period where we actually were losing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":291.556,"endTime":296.636,"body":"production data and kind of akin to,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":291.556,"endTime":296.636,"body":"to like that Black Friday experience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":297.061,"endTime":299.941,"body":"And fortunately after, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":297.061,"endTime":299.941,"body":"within about 20 minutes, I got, we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":299.941,"endTime":303.881,"body":"weren't losing data anymore, but then"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":299.941,"endTime":303.881,"body":"I was glued to my seat for the next"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":303.881,"endTime":308.331,"body":"10 hours, like basically rebuilding a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":303.881,"endTime":308.331,"body":"bunch of infrastructure from scratch."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":308.741,"endTime":311.271,"body":"And it was the most"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":308.741,"endTime":311.271,"body":"stressful day of my life."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":312.021,"endTime":315.361,"body":"In fact, it was, it was so stressful"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":312.021,"endTime":315.361,"body":"that I decided I would never be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":315.361,"endTime":318.671,"body":"in a situation where I have to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":315.361,"endTime":318.671,"body":"respond to production outages again."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":318.981,"endTime":320.523,"body":"one"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":322.663,"endTime":327.295,"body":"thing I discovered is that I actually kind"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":322.663,"endTime":327.295,"body":"of do work in high pressure situations."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":327.295,"endTime":330.545,"body":"Like if it's like a 10 hour"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":327.295,"endTime":330.545,"body":"time frame to solve the problem."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":330.545,"endTime":334.185,"body":"So I'm definitely going to go"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":330.545,"endTime":334.185,"body":"with Santa's sleigh is my answer."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":334.973,"endTime":337.143,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":334.973,"endTime":337.143,"body":"have a cheeky answer here."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":337.153,"endTime":338.853,"body":"Cause I, I, I'm with Ben, frankly."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":338.863,"endTime":340.883,"body":"Like, there's a reason I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":338.863,"endTime":340.883,"body":"don't work in e commerce."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":340.963,"endTime":344.783,"body":"I deeply admire the folks who can"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":340.963,"endTime":344.783,"body":"take on that kind of on call stress."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":345.213,"endTime":348.483,"body":"and not to say that obviously if"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":345.213,"endTime":348.483,"body":"we're serving other businesses,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":348.513,"endTime":351.149,"body":"there aren't crucial things that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":348.513,"endTime":351.149,"body":"we're, we're doing for them."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":351.149,"endTime":355.651,"body":"but timelines are less about, you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":351.149,"endTime":355.651,"body":"Per second, typically with, uh,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":355.661,"endTime":356.791,"body":"like DevTools, that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":356.791,"endTime":359.191,"body":"And more about this is a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":356.791,"endTime":359.191,"body":"problem we need to solve it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":359.494,"endTime":362.124,"body":"So I'm definitely going Santa's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":359.494,"endTime":362.124,"body":"Sleigh, but my, my real answer for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":362.124,"endTime":364.064,"body":"that is that Santa's obviously magic."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":364.114,"endTime":367.494,"body":"and so like the navigation of the Sleigh"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":364.114,"endTime":367.494,"body":"system is clearly just the backup."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":367.514,"endTime":370.244,"body":"He's may have gotten used to it,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":367.514,"endTime":370.244,"body":"but like the, he's been doing"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":370.244,"endTime":372.024,"body":"the job for thousands of years."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":372.024,"endTime":373.154,"body":"It's not a problem."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":373.234,"endTime":374.464,"body":"He can go back to it a bit."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":374.464,"endTime":376.484,"body":"Like, yes, it's not top of the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":374.464,"endTime":376.484,"body":"line, but he'll figure it out."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":376.514,"endTime":380.184,"body":"So I just feel like the, to Ben's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":376.514,"endTime":380.184,"body":"point, the stress is a lot lower there."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":380.184,"endTime":380.414,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":380.414,"endTime":380.504,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":380.504,"endTime":382.379,"body":"think it speaks to the broader point here."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":382.399,"endTime":386.029,"body":"I mean, this is a silly combo, but,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":382.399,"endTime":386.029,"body":"really consider as you're taking"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":386.029,"endTime":389.209,"body":"on engineering challenges, the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":386.029,"endTime":389.209,"body":"implications of when something goes down."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":389.279,"endTime":393.219,"body":"and it's true whether or not you're"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":389.279,"endTime":393.219,"body":"looking at an engineering challenge"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":393.239,"endTime":396.839,"body":"or even like, Hey, let's say"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":393.239,"endTime":396.839,"body":"like Andrew or Ben and I is sick."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":396.839,"endTime":397.939,"body":"Like, how do we fill in for that?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":397.969,"endTime":400.489,"body":"and I think that's a lesson you hear"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":397.969,"endTime":400.489,"body":"from a lot of leaders on the show."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":400.489,"endTime":403.339,"body":"And so Andrew, I love that you kind"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":400.489,"endTime":403.339,"body":"of brought up this challenge here."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":403.339,"endTime":405.919,"body":"I think often we plan for success."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":406.514,"endTime":410.894,"body":"And maybe don't always plan for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":406.514,"endTime":410.894,"body":"what happens when failure occurs."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":411.254,"endTime":414.584,"body":"I think what you just"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":411.254,"endTime":414.584,"body":"proposed, Conor, is chaos engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":414.624,"endTime":419.604,"body":"for Santa, because you're saying,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":414.624,"endTime":419.604,"body":"like, can Santa still find everyone"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":419.614,"endTime":421.084,"body":"without his navigation system?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":421.497,"endTime":422.627,"body":"I absolutely am."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":422.657,"endTime":425.487,"body":"we've had a couple of incredible"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":422.657,"endTime":425.487,"body":"chaos engineering episodes on"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":425.487,"endTime":428.167,"body":"the show and a big fan of them."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":428.217,"endTime":429.937,"body":"everything Netflix has"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":428.217,"endTime":429.937,"body":"done with it for sure."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":430.407,"endTime":432.867,"body":"Alright, I'll go next,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":430.407,"endTime":432.867,"body":"because I think I've got a good one."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":433.107,"endTime":436.362,"body":"we're hitting the holidays, you're"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":433.107,"endTime":436.362,"body":"gonna go see family, Alright, there's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":436.362,"endTime":439.382,"body":"going to be all sorts of people from"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":436.362,"endTime":439.382,"body":"different walks of life, so in that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":439.382,"endTime":442.302,"body":"environment, while you're visiting"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":439.382,"endTime":442.302,"body":"family over the holidays, would you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":442.302,"endTime":447.892,"body":"rather have to explain the concept of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":442.302,"endTime":447.892,"body":"technical debt to your grandparents, or"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":448.062,"endTime":450.032,"body":"teach a toddler how to write a unit test?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":450.925,"endTime":454.515,"body":"Oh, I love this one,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":450.925,"endTime":454.515,"body":"because these are definitely concepts"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":454.515,"endTime":459.535,"body":"that have parallels in the lives that, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":454.515,"endTime":459.535,"body":"know, like a grandparent or a toddler has."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":460.165,"endTime":461.305,"body":"I'll take the toddler one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":461.655,"endTime":465.145,"body":"Actually, I think I would have better"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":461.655,"endTime":465.145,"body":"luck teaching a toddler how to write"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":465.145,"endTime":468.985,"body":"a unit test, just because they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":465.145,"endTime":468.985,"body":"already so preconditioned to learn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":468.985,"endTime":471.165,"body":"and to not try to teach you something."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":471.512,"endTime":475.23,"body":"But something about that that's really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":471.512,"endTime":475.23,"body":"funny to me is that, you know, We're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":475.25,"endTime":478.58,"body":"always teaching kids and toddlers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":475.25,"endTime":478.58,"body":"how to do everything in their life"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":478.59,"endTime":480.48,"body":"through, basically, unit tests."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":480.49,"endTime":483.77,"body":"Like, think about when you have a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":480.49,"endTime":483.77,"body":"kid and you're trying to get them"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":483.77,"endTime":485.08,"body":"to learn how to tie their shoes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":485.37,"endTime":488.14,"body":"you know, there are some basic checks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":485.37,"endTime":488.14,"body":"there, like, did you tie a bow?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":488.15,"endTime":491.13,"body":"Were those shoelaces strung"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":488.15,"endTime":491.13,"body":"through all of the eyelets?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.39,"endTime":494.5,"body":"Did you tie your shoelaces"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.39,"endTime":494.5,"body":"together somehow in the process?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":494.5,"endTime":496.9,"body":"Like, there's lots of basic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":494.5,"endTime":496.9,"body":"checks you should do, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":496.9,"endTime":498.36,"body":"those are basically unit tests."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":498.37,"endTime":501.55,"body":"So, then the biggest challenge"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":498.37,"endTime":501.55,"body":"is, um, You know, how do you get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":501.55,"endTime":503.86,"body":"the toddler to sit down in front"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":501.55,"endTime":503.86,"body":"of a computer and type it out?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":504.27,"endTime":506.67,"body":"I don't have the answer to that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":504.27,"endTime":506.67,"body":"one, but I think that they could"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":506.67,"endTime":508.38,"body":"wrap their head around the idea."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":509.029,"endTime":512.499,"body":"Yeah, my kid is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":509.029,"endTime":512.499,"body":"currently into Minecraft, and he watches"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":512.499,"endTime":517.029,"body":"videos that include things like redstone"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":512.499,"endTime":517.029,"body":"programming, and he's like, Daddy, I want"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":517.029,"endTime":518.799,"body":"to do programming, and I'm like, yeah!"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":519.22,"endTime":520.35,"body":"Yeah, exactly that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":520.35,"endTime":522.78,"body":"I have nieces and nephews."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":522.81,"endTime":524.16,"body":"I play Roblox with them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":524.16,"endTime":526.72,"body":"Roblox gets them so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":524.16,"endTime":526.72,"body":"excited about computers and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":526.72,"endTime":528.08,"body":"engineering and building stuff."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":528.09,"endTime":530.87,"body":"And now they ask me all the time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":528.09,"endTime":530.87,"body":"like, Oh, can we just hack around in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":531.19,"endTime":532.85,"body":"the Roblox studio and make whatever?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":532.85,"endTime":534.07,"body":"And how does this work?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":534.343,"endTime":536.352,"body":"It opens up those inquisitive questions."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":536.412,"endTime":537.482,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":536.412,"endTime":537.482,"body":"what about you, Conor?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":537.602,"endTime":539.922,"body":"Well, I'll just say,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":537.602,"endTime":539.922,"body":"first of all, I love Andrew's answer"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":539.922,"endTime":541.942,"body":"here, because I completely agree that."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":542.432,"endTime":547.326,"body":"Part of our kind of communal duty,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":542.432,"endTime":547.326,"body":"particularly as parents or family of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":547.336,"endTime":551.556,"body":"toddlers, is to help them basically"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":547.336,"endTime":551.556,"body":"train that testing within their"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":551.556,"endTime":554.966,"body":"own mental framework of like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":551.556,"endTime":554.966,"body":"how do I approach these tasks?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":554.966,"endTime":560.131,"body":"So I think For scalability purposes,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":554.966,"endTime":560.131,"body":"and Andrew is perfectly on here, let's,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":560.131,"endTime":561.921,"body":"let's, let's start that training early."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":561.921,"endTime":563.931,"body":"Let's, let's have them"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":561.921,"endTime":563.931,"body":"think like an engineer."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":564.261,"endTime":566.641,"body":"think that'll benefit them"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":564.261,"endTime":566.641,"body":"throughout the rest of their life."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":566.721,"endTime":571.071,"body":"But I will take grandparents here because"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":566.721,"endTime":571.071,"body":"I think there are simple metaphors around"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":571.071,"endTime":575.321,"body":"technical debt and the debt that they are"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":571.071,"endTime":575.321,"body":"familiar with, with their financial lives."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":575.486,"endTime":578.116,"body":"and I actually don't think that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":575.486,"endTime":578.116,"body":"concept would be too hard to explain."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":578.176,"endTime":582.389,"body":"and, simply using the kind of, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":578.176,"endTime":582.389,"body":"here are the trade offs you're going"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":582.389,"endTime":586.339,"body":"to make by making these decisions and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":582.389,"endTime":586.339,"body":"equating it to the, their experience"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":586.339,"endTime":589.159,"body":"with the financial system, I think"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":586.339,"endTime":589.159,"body":"would actually be fairly simple."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":589.708,"endTime":591.638,"body":"So I tricked you both."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":591.678,"endTime":593.548,"body":"This is actually a trick question."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":593.838,"endTime":597.378,"body":"And at first I agreed with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":593.838,"endTime":597.378,"body":"Andrew, but, then I realized"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":597.408,"endTime":599.338,"body":"we live in the age of GPTs."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":599.368,"endTime":601.618,"body":"There's a custom GPT for everything."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":601.978,"endTime":606.878,"body":"I could totally imagine a GPT that is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":601.978,"endTime":606.878,"body":"designed to explain to my grandparents,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":606.878,"endTime":610.988,"body":"like this is what Ben is talking about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":606.878,"endTime":610.988,"body":"when he says all of these geeky things."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":612.108,"endTime":617.175,"body":"and I could also see a GPT where, my"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":612.108,"endTime":617.175,"body":"kid is able to just Ask it to write"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":617.175,"endTime":619.095,"body":"a unit test and like, it would do it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":619.769,"endTime":623.441,"body":"I think it speaks to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":619.769,"endTime":623.441,"body":"the preponderance of AI we have, in our"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":623.441,"endTime":626.931,"body":"society and discourse right now that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":623.441,"endTime":626.931,"body":"I am the one who have recently joined"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":627.071,"endTime":630.501,"body":"an AI company and Ben's the one who's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":627.071,"endTime":630.501,"body":"bringing up AI solutions to our questions."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":630.893,"endTime":631.203,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":631.223,"endTime":634.693,"body":"Well, speaking of which, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":631.223,"endTime":634.693,"body":"your, your question has to do with AI."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":634.693,"endTime":636.313,"body":"So, so what's, what's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":634.693,"endTime":636.313,"body":"your, would you rather?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":636.591,"endTime":638.881,"body":"Sure, we got a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":636.591,"endTime":638.881,"body":"simple one here to close it out."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":638.931,"endTime":643.231,"body":"would you rather give up Gen AI or"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":638.931,"endTime":643.231,"body":"spell check for the rest of your life?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":644.733,"endTime":649.983,"body":"Man, as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":644.733,"endTime":649.983,"body":"somebody who writes a ton, both"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":649.983,"endTime":651.643,"body":"of those are terrifying to me."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":654.465,"endTime":655.805,"body":"a new"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":654.465,"endTime":655.805,"body":"spell checker for Gen AI?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":655.805,"endTime":657.665,"body":"Because if so, that's an"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":655.805,"endTime":657.665,"body":"easy answer, I feel like."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":657.997,"endTime":659.217,"body":"I feel"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":657.997,"endTime":659.217,"body":"like that's cheating."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":659.287,"endTime":660.667,"body":"That's gotta be cheating."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":660.684,"endTime":662.494,"body":"why I gotta, I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":660.684,"endTime":662.494,"body":"gotta make sure we, that's not"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":662.494,"endTime":663.444,"body":"allowed for anyone listening."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":664.006,"endTime":667.786,"body":"Yeah, so I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":664.006,"endTime":667.786,"body":"did work for, there's about a three"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":667.786,"endTime":671.676,"body":"year period where most of my writing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":667.786,"endTime":671.676,"body":"was done on this documentation platform"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":671.676,"endTime":673.686,"body":"that had no built in spell check."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":674.126,"endTime":678.166,"body":"and it was like pulling teeth at"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":674.126,"endTime":678.166,"body":"first, but then it turns out the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":678.166,"endTime":682.066,"body":"human mind actually gets pretty good"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":678.166,"endTime":682.066,"body":"at compensating for stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":682.066,"endTime":685.786,"body":"And I got to a point where I could"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":682.066,"endTime":685.786,"body":"start to identify spelling errors."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":685.796,"endTime":687.716,"body":"So I think I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":685.796,"endTime":687.716,"body":"with spell check just because"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":687.716,"endTime":688.826,"body":"I feel like if I gave up."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":689.631,"endTime":691.181,"body":"Gen AI I would get left behind."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":691.481,"endTime":693.111,"body":"I'd become a dinosaur almost immediately."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":694.347,"endTime":697.087,"body":"I feel similarly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":694.347,"endTime":697.087,"body":"to Ben with this question."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":697.137,"endTime":700.514,"body":"I would easily give up spellcheck because"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":697.137,"endTime":700.514,"body":"I personally never need spellcheck."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":700.544,"endTime":701.894,"body":"I'm like a spelling nerd."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":701.914,"endTime":704.514,"body":"I was like one of those spelling"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":701.914,"endTime":704.514,"body":"bee people in high school."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":705.144,"endTime":706.514,"body":"And I have a degree in Latin."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":706.534,"endTime":709.984,"body":"So like spelling has never"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":706.534,"endTime":709.984,"body":"been like an obstacle."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":710.181,"endTime":713.771,"body":"I would definitely be afraid of giving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":710.181,"endTime":713.771,"body":"up something like Gen AI in this case,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":713.791,"endTime":717.201,"body":"because I think it'd be easy, like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":713.791,"endTime":717.201,"body":"what Ben said, to get left behind."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":717.531,"endTime":721.911,"body":"not to mention that you could certainly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":717.531,"endTime":721.911,"body":"get it to solve the spellcheck problem."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":721.921,"endTime":726.291,"body":"And I know all of our first reactions was,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":721.921,"endTime":726.291,"body":"oh, that's cheating, but is it really in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":726.291,"endTime":728.601,"body":"this, in this context of this question?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":728.871,"endTime":730.401,"body":"so that's a really fascinating one."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":730.82,"endTime":731.03,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":731.03,"endTime":734.32,"body":"And I feel like in the world where, you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":731.03,"endTime":734.32,"body":"know, everything is AI generated now,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":734.32,"endTime":737.5,"body":"like everyone's posting on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":734.32,"endTime":737.5,"body":"with, just clicking the button to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":737.53,"endTime":741.97,"body":"automatically write the posts, having"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":737.53,"endTime":741.97,"body":"misspellings in your content is probably"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":741.97,"endTime":745.87,"body":"a good, a clear example or an indicator"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":741.97,"endTime":745.87,"body":"that it was a human that wrote it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":746.608,"endTime":748.828,"body":"I'll admit I'm"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":746.608,"endTime":748.828,"body":"completely distracted now and I just"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":748.828,"endTime":750.298,"body":"want to learn about your Latin degree."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":750.518,"endTime":752.548,"body":"We'll have to crack"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":750.518,"endTime":752.548,"body":"into that in a later episode."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":752.548,"endTime":754.148,"body":"I'm sure I can draw lots of parallels."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":754.91,"endTime":757.637,"body":"Now that we're, sort"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":754.91,"endTime":757.637,"body":"of in the holiday spirit, and having"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":757.637,"endTime":762.527,"body":"some fun, I want to take a moment to just"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":757.637,"endTime":762.527,"body":"look back at, not only the past year,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":762.527,"endTime":764.477,"body":"but just your entire time here, Conor."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":764.807,"endTime":768.207,"body":"you know, you've been here at Dev"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":764.807,"endTime":768.207,"body":"Interrupted since, I believe, since"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":768.227,"endTime":771.98,"body":"the very beginning, have been, some of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":768.227,"endTime":771.98,"body":"your favorite moments, along the way?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":772.453,"endTime":772.973,"body":"Oh, man."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":772.973,"endTime":777.123,"body":"I mean, honestly, there are sincerely"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":772.973,"endTime":777.123,"body":"too many to name them all, so I'm just"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":777.123,"endTime":780.053,"body":"going to apologize in advance to all"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":777.123,"endTime":780.053,"body":"the incredible guests who I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":780.053,"endTime":782.953,"body":"forget about our conversations because"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":780.053,"endTime":782.953,"body":"they happened three, four years ago,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":783.265,"endTime":787.155,"body":"because we've been so blessed with"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":783.265,"endTime":787.155,"body":"the number of conversations we've had."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":787.155,"endTime":790.275,"body":"Like you brought up chaos engineering"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":787.155,"endTime":790.275,"body":"earlier in that concept, and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":790.415,"endTime":791.58,"body":"it made me think of another."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":791.77,"endTime":795.17,"body":"Two actually great concepts that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":791.77,"endTime":795.17,"body":"we, or great conversations we had"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":795.17,"endTime":798.02,"body":"around chaos engineering that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":795.17,"endTime":798.02,"body":"even on my original notes for this."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":798.02,"endTime":801.74,"body":"I'm like, Oh, you know, I've talked to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":798.02,"endTime":801.74,"body":"Nora Jones, last year, who was founder"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":801.74,"endTime":805.65,"body":"and CEO at Jelly and previously at"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":801.74,"endTime":805.65,"body":"Netflix and a lead in chaos engineering."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":805.65,"endTime":808.72,"body":"And you completely brought that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":805.65,"endTime":808.72,"body":"conversation back to the forefront for me."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":808.72,"endTime":812.67,"body":"Now I want to talk about that one, but"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":808.72,"endTime":812.67,"body":"originally I had notes on other ones."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":812.67,"endTime":816.36,"body":"So it's, it's really"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":812.67,"endTime":816.36,"body":"been such a blessing to."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":816.785,"endTime":820.125,"body":"Learned from so many incredible leaders"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":816.785,"endTime":820.125,"body":"here and to get to work with Dan"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":820.125,"endTime":824.245,"body":"and others and you Ben As we've gone"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":820.125,"endTime":824.245,"body":"through the show because there's been"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":824.705,"endTime":828.055,"body":"this incredible arc of the show where"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":824.705,"endTime":828.055,"body":"I think we've leveled up what we've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":828.055,"endTime":832.035,"body":"done We've built this amazing community"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":828.055,"endTime":832.035,"body":"almost what 19, 000 people subscribe"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":832.035,"endTime":836.2,"body":"to the sub stack now thousands of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":832.035,"endTime":836.2,"body":"folks listening every week And we've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":836.21,"endTime":840.66,"body":"also been able to bring our giant Dev"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":836.21,"endTime":840.66,"body":"Interrupted dome, this huge plastic"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":840.66,"endTime":844.53,"body":"bubble that some of you may have seen on"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":840.66,"endTime":844.53,"body":"conference floors, to go do recordings."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":844.53,"endTime":847.9,"body":"And out of that we've gotten to talk to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":844.53,"endTime":847.9,"body":"folks like Luca Rossi at Refactoring,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":847.9,"endTime":852.23,"body":"who's become like a friend and a partner"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":847.9,"endTime":852.23,"body":"to Dev Interrupted, Kelly Vaughn,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":852.387,"endTime":854.547,"body":"also, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":852.387,"endTime":854.547,"body":"awesome to see people like Luca"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.567,"endTime":857.797,"body":"really go on to build their own"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.567,"endTime":857.797,"body":"communities as well, you know."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":857.817,"endTime":860.097,"body":"Like it's, you know, cause I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":857.817,"endTime":860.097,"body":"think that's where we've done"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":860.107,"endTime":862.097,"body":"best is when we elevate voices,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":862.478,"endTime":863.118,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":863.338,"endTime":865.808,"body":"And then like Kelly Vaughn, who's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":863.338,"endTime":865.808,"body":"kind of become this like regular"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":865.808,"endTime":867.488,"body":"guest and voice on the show."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":867.928,"endTime":871.898,"body":"A couple of episodes we've done with"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":867.928,"endTime":871.898,"body":"Charity Majors, CTO at Honeycomb."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":871.928,"endTime":873.528,"body":"I mean, Charity's just always a joy."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":874.025,"endTime":877.205,"body":"Rob at CircleCI, who's now getting"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":874.025,"endTime":877.205,"body":"more and more involved with us as well."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":877.205,"endTime":880.955,"body":"I think when this episode airs, it sounds"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":877.205,"endTime":880.955,"body":"like you'll have just done a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":880.965,"endTime":882.505,"body":"dinner with them in San Francisco."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":882.505,"endTime":883.695,"body":"And I can't wait to hear about that."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":884.181,"endTime":887.881,"body":"There's really just been so many, and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":884.181,"endTime":887.881,"body":"so many moments that have stood out."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":888.857,"endTime":892.697,"body":"Well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":888.857,"endTime":892.697,"body":"gonna ask you to alienate 99"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":892.697,"endTime":894.207,"body":"percent of them and pick one."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":894.637,"endTime":897.047,"body":"What was your favorite moment?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":897.51,"endTime":897.83,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":897.83,"endTime":900.57,"body":"Well, I will absolutely cheat on"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":897.83,"endTime":900.57,"body":"this one then and say Interact."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":900.57,"endTime":902.75,"body":"we ran several Interact"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":900.57,"endTime":902.75,"body":"conferences where we"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":902.75,"endTime":906.33,"body":"had lots of speakers, and then created"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":902.75,"endTime":906.33,"body":"a bunch of incredible content around it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":906.73,"endTime":911.1,"body":"so folks may remember maybe our most"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":906.73,"endTime":911.1,"body":"popular episode, I think still today."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":911.35,"endTime":915.29,"body":"Treating devs like human beings,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":911.35,"endTime":915.29,"body":"which went viral on Reddit, from back"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":915.29,"endTime":920.61,"body":"in December of 2022, where we talked"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":915.29,"endTime":920.61,"body":"to Kelly Vaughn, Jean Hsu, and, Lena"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":920.61,"endTime":926.23,"body":"Reinhart about how to approach the human"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":920.61,"endTime":926.23,"body":"side of managing software engineers."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":926.565,"endTime":928.275,"body":"and that resonated with so many people."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":928.295,"endTime":931.815,"body":"I could, there's so many technical"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":928.295,"endTime":931.815,"body":"conversations, whether newer ones"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":931.815,"endTime":934.445,"body":"on AI, older ones on platform"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":931.815,"endTime":934.445,"body":"engineering, whatever else we could"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":934.455,"endTime":937.435,"body":"have a conversation about, but to me,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":934.455,"endTime":937.435,"body":"that one has really stood the test"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":937.435,"endTime":940.955,"body":"of time, both as being part of this"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":937.435,"endTime":940.955,"body":"incredible digital conference series"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":940.955,"endTime":942.535,"body":"that we started up during the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":942.885,"endTime":947.565,"body":"And also from the standpoint of, I just"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":942.885,"endTime":947.565,"body":"think it's so timeless in the concepts"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":947.585,"endTime":950.985,"body":"being applied, and how much they matter"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":947.585,"endTime":950.985,"body":"today and will continue to matter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":952.527,"endTime":954.857,"body":"yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":952.527,"endTime":954.857,"body":"is definitely a really awesome"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":954.857,"endTime":956.507,"body":"moment in Dev Interrupted history."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":957.047,"endTime":961.767,"body":"On a similar thread, like was there ever"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":957.047,"endTime":961.767,"body":"a time that you had a guest where you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":961.767,"endTime":965.627,"body":"feel like they really challenged your way"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":961.767,"endTime":965.627,"body":"of thinking or they like sort of forced"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":965.627,"endTime":967.717,"body":"you to change your mind on something?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":968.54,"endTime":971.27,"body":"I'll share a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":968.54,"endTime":971.27,"body":"serious one and a funny one here."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":971.58,"endTime":977.71,"body":"So the serious one for me was we"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":971.58,"endTime":977.71,"body":"had a conversation last year in 2023"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":977.72,"endTime":979.39,"body":"about tech hiring and the trends."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":979.81,"endTime":984.543,"body":"Predictions and strategies for it, with"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":979.81,"endTime":984.543,"body":"Data Peoples, Miriam, Jana Shashi, and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":984.683,"endTime":990.873,"body":"Miriam really brought both anecdotal"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":984.683,"endTime":990.873,"body":"information and so much data, that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":990.873,"endTime":995.403,"body":"conversation, it made me deeply think"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":990.873,"endTime":995.403,"body":"about not just what was happening"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":995.403,"endTime":999.773,"body":"in hiring in 2023 for devs, which"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":995.403,"endTime":999.773,"body":"was a very challenging experience."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":999.823,"endTime":1004.193,"body":"and I think has continued this year"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":999.823,"endTime":1004.193,"body":"as, as we've seen the hiring market."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1004.618,"endTime":1009.578,"body":"Posts, the kind of 21, 21 bubble blow"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1004.618,"endTime":1009.578,"body":"up, change rapidly for a lot of folks."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1009.618,"endTime":1012.088,"body":"But it also made me think a lot"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1009.618,"endTime":1012.088,"body":"about what's going to happen with AI."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1012.138,"endTime":1016.528,"body":"And I think we've seen that accelerate"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1012.138,"endTime":1016.528,"body":"even more with AI agents and the way"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1016.528,"endTime":1020.128,"body":"people are starting to scale organizations"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1016.528,"endTime":1020.128,"body":"and effort differently across systems."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1020.518,"endTime":1023.008,"body":"and so that really pushed me"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1020.518,"endTime":1023.008,"body":"to expand my thinking there."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1023.518,"endTime":1025.988,"body":"And then on the fun side"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1023.518,"endTime":1025.988,"body":"of things, I would say."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1026.273,"endTime":1030.363,"body":"Drata's, co founder and CTO,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1026.273,"endTime":1030.363,"body":"Daniel Marashlian, joined us for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1030.363,"endTime":1032.563,"body":"a conversation about why engineers"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1030.363,"endTime":1032.563,"body":"make the best entrepreneurs."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1032.673,"endTime":1036.853,"body":"And Daniel was just a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1032.673,"endTime":1036.853,"body":"guest and he had this amazing screw"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1036.853,"endTime":1040.453,"body":"up story about, as Ben brought up"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1036.853,"endTime":1040.453,"body":"earlier, taking down production"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1040.723,"endTime":1042.743,"body":"and completely destroying things."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1042.983,"endTime":1046.853,"body":"And it was just such a, a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1042.983,"endTime":1046.853,"body":"delight to hear someone who."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1047.508,"endTime":1051.928,"body":"Had achieved so much in their career,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1047.508,"endTime":1051.928,"body":"built unicorn companies and, been"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1051.928,"endTime":1056.138,"body":"this incredibly successful engineer"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1051.928,"endTime":1056.138,"body":"and now leader, and to really"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1056.138,"endTime":1057.838,"body":"reflect on the humanness of us all."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1057.868,"endTime":1061.368,"body":"And I think for the folks who are earlier"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1057.868,"endTime":1061.368,"body":"in their career listening to this and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1061.368,"endTime":1066.658,"body":"maybe get intimidated sometimes by how"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1061.368,"endTime":1066.658,"body":"successful folks are, like, we had on"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1066.978,"endTime":1072.88,"body":"the former CEO of Nutanix, who's, uh, now"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1066.978,"endTime":1072.88,"body":"also the, CEO and co founder of DevRev"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1073.01,"endTime":1075.96,"body":"and has built another billion dollar"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1073.01,"endTime":1075.96,"body":"company at Durag Pandey a few weeks"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1075.96,"endTime":1077.4,"body":"back and had a great interview with him."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1077.4,"endTime":1079.95,"body":"And I think in those conversations,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1077.4,"endTime":1079.95,"body":"it's easy to go like, Oh my God, how"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1079.95,"endTime":1081.37,"body":"can I ever achieve the person's success?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1081.39,"endTime":1084.18,"body":"and I think it's, it's such a joy to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1081.39,"endTime":1084.18,"body":"remember that like these people are"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1084.18,"endTime":1087.23,"body":"human too, they also probably took"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1084.18,"endTime":1087.23,"body":"production down, and we're all kind"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1087.23,"endTime":1088.64,"body":"of on this learning journey together."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1088.64,"endTime":1090.12,"body":"We just have different experiences of it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1090.12,"endTime":1093.17,"body":"So those were two that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1090.12,"endTime":1093.17,"body":"really stuck out to me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1093.814,"endTime":1094.704,"body":"So we've heard a little bit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1094.704,"endTime":1097.584,"body":"about your experiences"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1094.704,"endTime":1097.584,"body":"with the guests so far."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1097.764,"endTime":1101.114,"body":"And I'm curious, what are some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1097.764,"endTime":1101.114,"body":"biggest things you've learned along that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1101.114,"endTime":1103.684,"body":"journey, being part of Dev Interrupted?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1104.629,"endTime":1107.009,"body":"Man, I mean, I've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1104.629,"endTime":1107.009,"body":"named a couple of them already, right?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1107.009,"endTime":1111.499,"body":"Like the human connection piece"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1107.009,"endTime":1111.499,"body":"of all of us growing as leaders."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1111.549,"endTime":1113.339,"body":"and I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1111.549,"endTime":1113.339,"body":"ton of insights here."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1113.339,"endTime":1115.119,"body":"we did a whole series on leadership."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1115.629,"endTime":1119.619,"body":"Going from kind of your first tech lead"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1115.629,"endTime":1119.619,"body":"role to, Hey, I'm in the boardroom now."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1119.629,"endTime":1120.839,"body":"How do I approach this?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1120.889,"endTime":1124.469,"body":"that Dan was, our co host Dan Lines"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1120.889,"endTime":1124.469,"body":"was the main, interview on that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1124.469,"endTime":1128.079,"body":"we did last fall in 2023 that I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1124.469,"endTime":1128.079,"body":"highly recommend folks listen to."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1128.079,"endTime":1132.599,"body":"The, I think the whole series is a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1128.079,"endTime":1132.599,"body":"great look at how to grow as a leader."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1133.119,"endTime":1135.889,"body":"I'll say personally, I feel like I've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1133.119,"endTime":1135.889,"body":"grown as a leader just from having these"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1135.889,"endTime":1139.099,"body":"conversations and then trying to apply"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1135.889,"endTime":1139.099,"body":"them in my day to day life and also as"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1139.099,"endTime":1142.219,"body":"a host and, a leader within my own team."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1142.219,"endTime":1145.619,"body":"it's been so moving to have"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1142.219,"endTime":1145.619,"body":"these examples to look up to."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1146.029,"endTime":1149.319,"body":"And frankly, I'm, I'm hoping to apply"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1146.029,"endTime":1149.319,"body":"a lot of stuff I've learned with Dev"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1149.319,"endTime":1152.919,"body":"Interrupted to the new podcast I'm"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1149.319,"endTime":1152.919,"body":"hosting about AI, Chain of Thought."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1152.959,"endTime":1154.519,"body":"listen and wherever you get your podcasts."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1154.719,"endTime":1158.839,"body":"and it's going to be awesome for me"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1154.719,"endTime":1158.839,"body":"also to see kind of what you guys"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1158.839,"endTime":1162.199,"body":"do next with, with Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1158.839,"endTime":1162.199,"body":"to actually learn from that as well."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1162.879,"endTime":1166.539,"body":"But if I was going to pick like"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1162.879,"endTime":1166.539,"body":"one main takeaway from the show."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1167.544,"endTime":1170.324,"body":"I think it's something that's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1167.544,"endTime":1170.324,"body":"just really basic for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1170.324,"endTime":1173.464,"body":"engineers, but continually gets"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1170.324,"endTime":1173.464,"body":"driven home to me throughout"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1173.464,"endTime":1175.264,"body":"the process, which is iteration."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1175.504,"endTime":1178.034,"body":"we've talked about, Hey, the show"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1175.504,"endTime":1178.034,"body":"has grown so much in the four years."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1178.474,"endTime":1181.814,"body":"And the way that's happened has"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1178.474,"endTime":1181.814,"body":"been through continual improvement."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1182.124,"endTime":1186.554,"body":"it's been through continual attempts"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1182.124,"endTime":1186.554,"body":"that sometimes all of them always worked"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1186.554,"endTime":1188.364,"body":"out and kind of assessing that success."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1188.364,"endTime":1188.674,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1189.184,"endTime":1191.434,"body":"mean, you talked about unit"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1189.184,"endTime":1191.434,"body":"testing for toddlers earlier."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1191.684,"endTime":1194.594,"body":"Like, Hey, let's do CICD for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1191.684,"endTime":1194.594,"body":"everything we do in our lives."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1194.664,"endTime":1196.104,"body":"And I think you'll be better for it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1196.104,"endTime":1200.124,"body":"And whether it's a content stream"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1196.104,"endTime":1200.124,"body":"like this, where you have these weekly"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1200.124,"endTime":1203.414,"body":"chances to kind of keep learning, keep"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1200.124,"endTime":1203.414,"body":"growing and, and make mistakes and,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1203.424,"endTime":1206.424,"body":"build off of them or anything else, I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1203.424,"endTime":1206.424,"body":"think there's so much to learn from that."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1211.561,"endTime":1216.601,"body":"This holiday season share the gift of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1211.561,"endTime":1216.601,"body":"clarity and insight linear B's 2025"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1216.601,"endTime":1218.401,"body":"engineering benchmarks insights report."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1218.941,"endTime":1222.721,"body":"With data from over 6 million pull"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1218.941,"endTime":1222.721,"body":"requests and expert analysis from"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1222.721,"endTime":1224.941,"body":"leaders at CircleCI and Mongo DB."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1225.361,"endTime":1227.611,"body":"It's the ultimate resource"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1225.361,"endTime":1227.611,"body":"for engineering leaders."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1227.872,"endTime":1230.722,"body":"Check out the show notes, the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1227.872,"endTime":1230.722,"body":"grab your free copy and give your"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1230.722,"endTime":1234.172,"body":"team the insights they need to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1230.722,"endTime":1234.172,"body":"hit the ground running in 2025."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1237.042,"endTime":1239.532,"body":"it's really great"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1237.042,"endTime":1239.532,"body":"to get your perspective on it, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1239.532,"endTime":1243.442,"body":"sure our audience is really, enjoying"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1239.532,"endTime":1243.442,"body":"this too because I, I mean, it's, we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1243.442,"endTime":1246.892,"body":"don't always get the chance to open up"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1243.442,"endTime":1246.892,"body":"behind the curtains to show, how things"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1246.892,"endTime":1251.472,"body":"are produced and, you know, sort of the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1246.892,"endTime":1251.472,"body":"effort goes into to making this show"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1251.502,"endTime":1256.122,"body":"every week and running a substack and a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1251.502,"endTime":1256.122,"body":"podcast and trying to always have original"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1256.122,"endTime":1258.132,"body":"ideas that we're bringing to the, to."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1260.03,"endTime":1264.08,"body":"thanks Conor for all of those, those"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1260.03,"endTime":1264.08,"body":"great memories, that you shared with us."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1264.12,"endTime":1267.18,"body":"And I think it's a great segue"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1264.12,"endTime":1267.18,"body":"into, what we want to do with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1267.18,"endTime":1268.3,"body":"this show moving forward."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1268.31,"endTime":1271.29,"body":"So, you know, next year"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1268.31,"endTime":1271.29,"body":"we're starting a new season."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1271.3,"endTime":1272.55,"body":"It's going to be season five."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1273.11,"endTime":1276.96,"body":"we have Andrew here with us and,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1273.11,"endTime":1276.96,"body":"you know, Andrew, you're the newest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1277.06,"endTime":1279.04,"body":"member of our Dev Interrupted team."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1279.31,"endTime":1282.63,"body":"this is your second episode"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1279.31,"endTime":1282.63,"body":"you've got fresh eyes on this."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1282.63,"endTime":1284.67,"body":"You know, Conor and I have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1282.63,"endTime":1284.67,"body":"been here for a little while."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1284.67,"endTime":1287.13,"body":"and I wanted, I wanted to give"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1284.67,"endTime":1287.13,"body":"you a chance just to introduce"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1287.13,"endTime":1290.42,"body":"yourself a little bit to our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1287.13,"endTime":1290.42,"body":"audience, too, in this, episode."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1290.54,"endTime":1294.01,"body":"so, you know, just share with us, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1290.54,"endTime":1294.01,"body":"what does your background look like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1294.01,"endTime":1298.51,"body":"and how are you expecting to be able to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1294.01,"endTime":1298.51,"body":"apply the things you've done in the past"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1298.52,"endTime":1300.71,"body":"to your time here with Dev Interrupted?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1301.398,"endTime":1302.308,"body":"I love this question."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1302.348,"endTime":1303.998,"body":"Opportunity for me to talk about myself."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1303.998,"endTime":1305.098,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1305.148,"endTime":1306.028,"body":"I am just joking."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1306.368,"endTime":1308.028,"body":"So a little bit about me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1308.074,"endTime":1309.604,"body":"I have an atypical background."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1309.984,"endTime":1313.188,"body":"Prior to coming to engineering,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1309.984,"endTime":1313.188,"body":"I worked in education."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1313.198,"endTime":1318.218,"body":"So I did curriculum design, I built"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1313.198,"endTime":1318.218,"body":"online programs, online educational"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1318.218,"endTime":1323.073,"body":"tracks as well, and kind of help"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1318.218,"endTime":1323.073,"body":"people get more Learning out of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1323.073,"endTime":1324.623,"body":"tools they were using every day."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1324.823,"endTime":1326.883,"body":"But before that, I was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1324.823,"endTime":1326.883,"body":"even a classroom teacher."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1326.893,"endTime":1327.763,"body":"I lived abroad."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1327.763,"endTime":1330.943,"body":"I was in Japan for two years and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1327.763,"endTime":1330.943,"body":"I had many classrooms of students"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1330.943,"endTime":1332.253,"body":"that I was in charge of and taught."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1332.253,"endTime":1335.523,"body":"And that was an amazing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1332.253,"endTime":1335.523,"body":"experience that I'm sure I'll"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1335.523,"endTime":1336.793,"body":"talk more about in the future."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1336.803,"endTime":1340.563,"body":"But all of those things have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1336.803,"endTime":1340.563,"body":"made me, the developer that I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1340.563,"endTime":1342.693,"body":"am, and the person that I am."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1342.693,"endTime":1347.523,"body":"and having worked in an education"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1342.693,"endTime":1347.523,"body":"background, I bring a lot of desire"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1347.523,"endTime":1351.053,"body":"to teach and to bring together"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1347.523,"endTime":1351.053,"body":"concepts and make them really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1351.053,"endTime":1352.593,"body":"easy for folks to understand."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1352.916,"endTime":1356.626,"body":"Something that we've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1352.916,"endTime":1356.626,"body":"a lot in software, everyone's heard"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1356.626,"endTime":1361.326,"body":"this phrase about software is eating the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1356.626,"endTime":1361.326,"body":"world and open source is eating software."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1361.326,"endTime":1364.186,"body":"Now AI is eating open source and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1361.326,"endTime":1364.186,"body":"everything's eating everything."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1364.186,"endTime":1368.943,"body":"But the point of the story is that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1364.186,"endTime":1368.943,"body":"everyone is going to be impacted"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1368.943,"endTime":1372.353,"body":"by technology and every company is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1368.943,"endTime":1372.353,"body":"going to be a technology company."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1372.683,"endTime":1376.913,"body":"And what this means is that there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1372.683,"endTime":1376.913,"body":"has to be a fundamental shift in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1376.913,"endTime":1380.973,"body":"how everyone talks about and thinks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1376.913,"endTime":1380.973,"body":"about software in order for it to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1380.973,"endTime":1385.293,"body":"safe and inclusive and to be the most"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1380.973,"endTime":1385.293,"body":"effective for the world that we live in."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1385.293,"endTime":1388.183,"body":"And that can't just be done"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1385.293,"endTime":1388.183,"body":"by an engineering voice."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1389.383,"endTime":1392.103,"body":"And it also can't be done"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1389.383,"endTime":1392.103,"body":"by an educator voice alone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1392.293,"endTime":1395.023,"body":"we have to reach across the aisles"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1392.293,"endTime":1395.023,"body":"and we have to understand each other."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1395.023,"endTime":1399.393,"body":"So that's my perspective and why"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1395.023,"endTime":1399.393,"body":"I'm really excited to be here and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1399.393,"endTime":1403.973,"body":"blend those ideas together, because"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1399.393,"endTime":1403.973,"body":"I see so much potential for a greater"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1403.973,"endTime":1406.913,"body":"world and I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1403.973,"endTime":1406.913,"body":"so much that we can talk about."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1407.143,"endTime":1410.596,"body":"And so I look forward to creating"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1407.143,"endTime":1410.596,"body":"the space for us to do so."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1410.87,"endTime":1414.32,"body":"Yeah, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1410.87,"endTime":1414.32,"body":"often refer to myself as like a cultural"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1414.32,"endTime":1418.86,"body":"anthropologist that's behind the camera"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1414.32,"endTime":1418.86,"body":"because I like to view myself more as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1418.86,"endTime":1423.3,"body":"like a person here who's here to extract"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1418.86,"endTime":1423.3,"body":"voices so that we can elevate them and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1423.3,"endTime":1426.51,"body":"share them with our community you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1423.3,"endTime":1426.51,"body":"the thing that makes me excited about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1426.53,"endTime":1431.67,"body":"having you on the shows I think you really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1426.53,"endTime":1431.67,"body":"are gonna help us like Pull out the best"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1431.7,"endTime":1435.95,"body":"in people when they come on our episode"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1431.7,"endTime":1435.95,"body":"and really feel like they're conveying"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1435.96,"endTime":1437.77,"body":"their unique perspective to the world."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1438.07,"endTime":1440.45,"body":"Uh, and then further, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1438.07,"endTime":1440.45,"body":"think what's equally important to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1440.45,"endTime":1444.51,"body":"that is then giving them the platform"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1440.45,"endTime":1444.51,"body":"to share it, as broadly as possible."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1444.52,"endTime":1446.67,"body":"So yeah, that's got me pretty excited."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1446.67,"endTime":1448.77,"body":"I wish we were on Zoom"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1446.67,"endTime":1448.77,"body":"just so I could keep emoji reacting"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1448.77,"endTime":1449.62,"body":"to everything you guys are saying."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1449.63,"endTime":1450.42,"body":"It makes me so excited."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1450.42,"endTime":1452.33,"body":"I'm like, I want to be adding"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1450.42,"endTime":1452.33,"body":"these like hearts and claps,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1452.33,"endTime":1453.34,"body":"and I'm like, ah, dang it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1453.35,"endTime":1453.69,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1454.233,"endTime":1455.803,"body":"That can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1454.233,"endTime":1455.803,"body":"be an edit for posts,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1456.443,"endTime":1459.233,"body":"you know, posts, heart reacts, heart"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1456.443,"endTime":1459.233,"body":"reacts, heart reacts, you know, we'll"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1459.233,"endTime":1460.553,"body":"have like a filter or something."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1461.24,"endTime":1463.6,"body":"can be part of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1461.24,"endTime":1463.6,"body":"our new clip template is, you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1463.6,"endTime":1464.89,"body":"know, the host reactions that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1464.913,"endTime":1466.693,"body":"well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1464.913,"endTime":1466.693,"body":"it's a podcast, really when you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1466.693,"endTime":1469.713,"body":"need a soundboard, you need to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1466.693,"endTime":1469.713,"body":"have like, I love that, I love"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1469.713,"endTime":1471.263,"body":"that, like a button or something."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1471.94,"endTime":1473.93,"body":"Alright, I was excited"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1471.94,"endTime":1473.93,"body":"for what next year's gonna look like."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1473.93,"endTime":1475.2,"body":"Now I'm not so sure."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1476.192,"endTime":1479.172,"body":"OKR, make a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1476.192,"endTime":1479.172,"body":"soundboard for Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1480.66,"endTime":1481.76,"body":"Jackson"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1480.66,"endTime":1481.76,"body":"could help with that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1482.973,"endTime":1483.543,"body":"He could,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1484.194,"endTime":1485.484,"body":"Man, alright,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1484.194,"endTime":1485.484,"body":"how do I get back to this?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1486.627,"endTime":1488.027,"body":"don't mind me"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1486.627,"endTime":1488.027,"body":"just derailing the episode."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1488.027,"endTime":1489.677,"body":"I'm like, I'm done hosting this thing."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1489.677,"endTime":1490.637,"body":"I can just derail now."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1490.637,"endTime":1491.617,"body":"I'm a guest."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1491.617,"endTime":1492.127,"body":"I get to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1492.127,"endTime":1492.437,"body":"screw"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1492.437,"endTime":1492.707,"body":"around."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1492.73,"endTime":1494.19,"body":"you mean"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1492.73,"endTime":1494.19,"body":"this isn't going in?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1495.387,"endTime":1495.537,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1496.264,"endTime":1497.664,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1496.264,"endTime":1497.664,"body":"sure some of it will."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1497.924,"endTime":1499.714,"body":"Adam's already thinking"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1497.924,"endTime":1499.714,"body":"about the video clip he's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1499.744,"endTime":1500.604,"body":"going to get off this."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1500.637,"endTime":1501.857,"body":"he loves a good blooper."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1501.857,"endTime":1503.947,"body":"this might be the intro to the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1501.857,"endTime":1503.947,"body":"whole episode probably now."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1505.504,"endTime":1508.581,"body":"So, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1505.504,"endTime":1508.581,"body":"get into, you know, some of our plans"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1508.581,"endTime":1510.311,"body":"for next year here in just a moment."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1510.311,"endTime":1513.191,"body":"But before we do that, I just"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1510.311,"endTime":1513.191,"body":"wanted to ask you, Andrew, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1513.751,"endTime":1514.921,"body":"do you have any suggestions?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1514.921,"endTime":1516.545,"body":"Like if you're going to change"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1514.921,"endTime":1516.545,"body":"something today, what would"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1516.545,"endTime":1517.605,"body":"you want to change right now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1519.96,"body":"Well, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1519.96,"body":"sure we'll talk a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1519.96,"endTime":1523.95,"body":"about that in just a moment, when we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1519.96,"endTime":1523.95,"body":"go into future plans for the show, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1523.96,"endTime":1528.2,"body":"I'm definitely looking forward, or my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1523.96,"endTime":1528.2,"body":"own ideas for things that we can do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1528.2,"endTime":1533.3,"body":"is to dive more into research and data"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1528.2,"endTime":1533.3,"body":"and balance that with the really great"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1533.31,"endTime":1535.43,"body":"anecdotes that we get from our guests."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1535.793,"endTime":1540.613,"body":"But also, the biggest opportunity"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1535.793,"endTime":1540.613,"body":"I see, and I know our listeners"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1540.743,"endTime":1545.213,"body":"probably agree, is that there are so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1540.743,"endTime":1545.213,"body":"many common themes among the really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1545.253,"endTime":1547.293,"body":"incredible guests that come on our show."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1547.583,"endTime":1550.743,"body":"And there are huge opportunities to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1547.583,"endTime":1550.743,"body":"tie those themes together into a larger"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1550.743,"endTime":1555.016,"body":"story and show the bigger picture,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1550.743,"endTime":1555.016,"body":"especially when these anecdotes are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1555.026,"endTime":1559.346,"body":"from a very unique perspective of stress"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1555.026,"endTime":1559.346,"body":"or tension or a time where there was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1559.356,"endTime":1562.431,"body":"a Huge amount of change, and there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1559.356,"endTime":1562.431,"body":"so much that can be learned from that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1562.431,"endTime":1564.091,"body":"and applied across different stories."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1564.101,"endTime":1569.881,"body":"So just because, like, there's such"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1564.101,"endTime":1569.881,"body":"a huge body of work here from so many"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1569.951,"endTime":1573.811,"body":"smart folks, I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1569.951,"endTime":1573.811,"body":"a huge opportunity to go deeper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1573.821,"endTime":1577.261,"body":"on, some of those values that we've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1573.821,"endTime":1577.261,"body":"learned from them over the years."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1577.468,"endTime":1580.228,"body":"I absolutely love that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1577.468,"endTime":1580.228,"body":"you're thinking about that because"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1580.348,"endTime":1583.278,"body":"some of the most successful work"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1580.348,"endTime":1583.278,"body":"Dev Interrupted has done, to your"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1583.278,"endTime":1587.428,"body":"point, has been when we've tied that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1583.278,"endTime":1587.428,"body":"qualitative and quantitative together,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1587.628,"endTime":1591.178,"body":"bringing in like dev productivity data"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1587.628,"endTime":1591.178,"body":"from LinearB's software engineering"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1591.188,"endTime":1594.718,"body":"benchmarks has been a fantastic way"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1591.188,"endTime":1594.718,"body":"to kind of drive home these points."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1595.038,"endTime":1597.838,"body":"And there's so much opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1595.038,"endTime":1597.838,"body":"do more of that on the research side."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1597.838,"endTime":1599.878,"body":"So I can't wait to see what"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1597.838,"endTime":1599.878,"body":"you do with it, Andrew."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1599.888,"endTime":1600.398,"body":"That's so exciting."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1601.038,"endTime":1603.078,"body":"So, Andrew, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1601.038,"endTime":1603.078,"body":"wondering if you could give us a sneak"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1603.078,"endTime":1607.248,"body":"peek on some of the changes that are"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1603.078,"endTime":1607.248,"body":"coming up, specifically as it relates to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1607.448,"endTime":1609.718,"body":"the format or the structure of this show."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1610.844,"endTime":1613.474,"body":"Yeah, so we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1610.844,"endTime":1613.474,"body":"looking to kind of shake up the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1613.474,"endTime":1615.034,"body":"format of the show a little bit."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1615.37,"endTime":1618.365,"body":"But of course, we're not going to shake"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1615.37,"endTime":1618.365,"body":"it up too much, at least at first,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1618.385,"endTime":1622.825,"body":"because we want to ease everyone into"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1618.385,"endTime":1622.825,"body":"the new experience and the new season."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1623.105,"endTime":1626.475,"body":"But things that we do want to dive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1623.105,"endTime":1626.475,"body":"into are, how engineering leaders"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1626.475,"endTime":1630.435,"body":"are measuring and improving things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1626.475,"endTime":1630.435,"body":"like their developer productivity."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1630.795,"endTime":1634.945,"body":"We really love to do series and deep"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1630.795,"endTime":1634.945,"body":"dives on how engineering leaders are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1634.945,"endTime":1639.14,"body":"tackling this problem that's Front of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1634.945,"endTime":1639.14,"body":"Mind for them and going into next year."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1639.43,"endTime":1642.0,"body":"so if that is something that is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1639.43,"endTime":1642.0,"body":"interesting to you or something"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1642.0,"endTime":1644.35,"body":"that you're currently tackling,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1642.0,"endTime":1644.35,"body":"we'd love to hear your story"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1644.35,"endTime":1647.15,"body":"because that's something that we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1644.35,"endTime":1647.15,"body":"actively thinking about right now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1647.38,"endTime":1651.58,"body":"And that's just one small example"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1647.38,"endTime":1651.58,"body":"of, new segments and stories that our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1651.58,"endTime":1653.83,"body":"audience can expect in the coming year."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1654.06,"endTime":1658.39,"body":"more opportunities to, break up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1654.06,"endTime":1658.39,"body":"interviews with, more deep dives, like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1658.39,"endTime":1660.43,"body":"I said, as well on research and data."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1660.885,"endTime":1665.407,"body":"another thing we're looking to do, is of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1660.885,"endTime":1665.407,"body":"course, take dev interrupted on the road."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1665.717,"endTime":1668.267,"body":"when our, Our listeners"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1665.717,"endTime":1668.267,"body":"are listening to this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1668.267,"endTime":1671.901,"body":"We would have just gone on the road, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1668.267,"endTime":1671.901,"body":"had an event in San Francisco where we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1671.901,"endTime":1673.361,"body":"brought engineering leaders together."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1673.561,"endTime":1676.151,"body":"this is something that we want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1673.561,"endTime":1676.151,"body":"to do more of in the coming year."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1676.411,"endTime":1679.241,"body":"Having these live events and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1676.411,"endTime":1679.241,"body":"being at conferences as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1679.451,"endTime":1682.361,"body":"There might be a conference that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1679.451,"endTime":1682.361,"body":"attend in the near future where you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1682.361,"endTime":1686.211,"body":"see a Dev Interrupted booth or you see"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1682.361,"endTime":1686.211,"body":"us walking around interviewing folks."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1686.461,"endTime":1689.581,"body":"this is a really great opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1686.461,"endTime":1689.581,"body":"kind of get involved with the community."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1689.581,"endTime":1693.011,"body":"And we're looking to grow that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1689.581,"endTime":1693.011,"body":"experience everywhere we go,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1693.031,"endTime":1694.246,"body":"including having things like this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1694.476,"endTime":1698.366,"body":"Off the conference floor, maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1694.476,"endTime":1698.366,"body":"events, happy hours, uh, learning"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1698.366,"endTime":1700.386,"body":"of, uh, workshops, things like that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1700.396,"endTime":1704.276,"body":"So if these are things that are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1700.396,"endTime":1704.276,"body":"interesting or exciting to you, we'd love"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1704.276,"endTime":1705.866,"body":"to get some feedback on that as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1705.896,"endTime":1708.736,"body":"and you can let us know anywhere you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1705.896,"endTime":1708.736,"body":"can reach us, which is lots of places."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1709.242,"endTime":1709.912,"body":"I love to hear that."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1709.912,"endTime":1713.032,"body":"I just got to say, like, it's been"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1709.912,"endTime":1713.032,"body":"some of the most fun moments we've had"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1713.032,"endTime":1716.992,"body":"with the show has been when we've had"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1713.032,"endTime":1716.992,"body":"these opportunities to be in person"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1717.012,"endTime":1720.272,"body":"and record a lot of great content and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1717.012,"endTime":1720.272,"body":"get these insights from listeners,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1720.332,"endTime":1721.662,"body":"and have these deeper conversations."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1721.722,"endTime":1725.152,"body":"so excited to see where you all are going"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1721.722,"endTime":1725.152,"body":"to be showing up next year and hopefully"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1725.152,"endTime":1726.202,"body":"I'll see you at a couple of events."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1727.063,"endTime":1729.493,"body":"And Ben, as well, from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1727.063,"endTime":1729.493,"body":"my perspective, I'm curious what kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1729.493,"endTime":1733.393,"body":"of things you have in mind for the Dev"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1729.493,"endTime":1733.393,"body":"Interrupted substack and where we'll"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1733.393,"endTime":1734.843,"body":"be taking the newsletter next year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1735.294,"endTime":1735.624,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1735.624,"endTime":1740.034,"body":"So, you know, we've sort of inconsistently"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1735.624,"endTime":1740.034,"body":"done guest posts in the past."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1740.054,"endTime":1743.204,"body":"And one of the things I would"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1740.054,"endTime":1743.204,"body":"really love for us to get to is to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1743.204,"endTime":1746.284,"body":"be more consistent about, sending"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1743.204,"endTime":1746.284,"body":"out newsletters twice a week."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1746.704,"endTime":1750.514,"body":"the problem is there's just a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1746.704,"endTime":1750.514,"body":"challenges producing, a weekly newsletter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1751.814,"endTime":1756.424,"body":"And then doubling it is just even"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1751.814,"endTime":1756.424,"body":"more effort and difficulties."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1756.874,"endTime":1761.084,"body":"it might sound strange coming from an"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1756.874,"endTime":1761.084,"body":"organization that creates tons of content,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1761.084,"endTime":1764.454,"body":"but there's always this challenge of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1761.084,"endTime":1764.454,"body":"like getting things on for the right"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1764.464,"endTime":1766.774,"body":"format for the media and the channel."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1766.794,"endTime":1771.024,"body":"And yeah, it ends up being a pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1766.794,"endTime":1771.024,"body":"big endeavor, but I would love"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1771.024,"endTime":1775.384,"body":"to get consistently more unique"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1771.024,"endTime":1775.384,"body":"insights out to our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1775.384,"endTime":1776.684,"body":"through the Substack Newsletter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1777.194,"endTime":1780.254,"body":"But the biggest change really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1777.194,"endTime":1780.254,"body":"is, it's already happening."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1780.834,"endTime":1784.209,"body":"We're starting to become a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1780.834,"endTime":1784.209,"body":"lot more Research oriented in"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1784.209,"endTime":1785.849,"body":"the content that we produce."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1786.589,"endTime":1790.909,"body":"So, one thing we've, we've started"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1786.589,"endTime":1790.909,"body":"doing just in recent months is, doing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1790.929,"endTime":1795.029,"body":"analysis, unique analysis of new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1790.929,"endTime":1795.029,"body":"research white papers that come out,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1795.379,"endTime":1799.539,"body":"from companies like Microsoft, Google,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1795.379,"endTime":1799.539,"body":"Okta, and this isn't going to stop."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1799.579,"endTime":1802.669,"body":"there's a lot of research coming out"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1799.579,"endTime":1802.669,"body":"about developer productivity, developer"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1802.669,"endTime":1807.885,"body":"experience, how to apply quantitative"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1802.669,"endTime":1807.885,"body":"metrics to those challenges, We love"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1807.885,"endTime":1811.555,"body":"reading them, we love analyzing them, and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1807.885,"endTime":1811.555,"body":"we want to share them with our audience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1812.055,"endTime":1816.696,"body":"In fact, our goal is to let our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1812.055,"endTime":1816.696,"body":"be the first among their peers that know"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1816.696,"endTime":1818.386,"body":"about the latest trends in research."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1818.386,"endTime":1821.469,"body":"So, but we also don't want you to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1818.386,"endTime":1821.469,"body":"spend a lot of time like reading"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1821.469,"endTime":1826.029,"body":"white papers, like it can be quite,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1821.469,"endTime":1826.029,"body":"quite intensive to decipher sometimes."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1826.459,"endTime":1829.329,"body":"So if you subscribe to our sub"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1826.459,"endTime":1829.329,"body":"stack, you'll get these delivered"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1829.359,"endTime":1832.799,"body":"as a part of our normal Tuesday"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1829.359,"endTime":1832.799,"body":"newsletter to your inbox."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1832.829,"endTime":1836.149,"body":"So it's the best way to keep up"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1832.829,"endTime":1836.149,"body":"to date on the latest and greatest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1836.149,"endTime":1839.609,"body":"of cutting edge research and the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1836.149,"endTime":1839.609,"body":"things that are impacting your work."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1840.368,"endTime":1844.088,"body":"So Conor, I actually have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1840.368,"endTime":1844.088,"body":"a question for you now."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1844.158,"endTime":1849.788,"body":"so now that you're retiring from the show"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1844.158,"endTime":1849.788,"body":"and becoming a listener, I want you to put"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1849.788,"endTime":1854.768,"body":"on your listener hat and think, what would"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1849.788,"endTime":1854.768,"body":"you like to hear from the show next year?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1856.066,"endTime":1856.426,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1856.526,"endTime":1857.976,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1856.526,"endTime":1857.976,"body":"got an actual listener hat."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1858.219,"endTime":1858.419,"body":"all right."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1858.449,"endTime":1859.449,"body":"Listener hat, listener hat."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1859.549,"endTime":1863.229,"body":"honestly, I think you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1859.549,"endTime":1863.229,"body":"and Andrew have nailed."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1863.724,"endTime":1865.354,"body":"Things that I, I'm really excited about."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1865.364,"endTime":1871.834,"body":"One being the opportunity to do more"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1865.364,"endTime":1871.834,"body":"with the show in, for in person events"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1871.874,"endTime":1876.204,"body":"and both create content out of that,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1871.874,"endTime":1876.204,"body":"but also to engage the community."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1876.524,"endTime":1877.564,"body":"I think it was fantastic."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1877.564,"endTime":1879.174,"body":"So really excited to see that happening."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1879.584,"endTime":1882.584,"body":"I would also say that I think the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1879.584,"endTime":1882.584,"body":"substack piece is a huge opportunity"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1882.594,"endTime":1886.234,"body":"where like, as Ben pointed out, we've had"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1882.594,"endTime":1886.234,"body":"some great guest articles in the past."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1886.244,"endTime":1889.684,"body":"Ben and I have co written a couple"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1886.244,"endTime":1889.684,"body":"of them even, but there's such an"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1889.684,"endTime":1891.364,"body":"opportunity to scale this and to really."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1891.744,"endTime":1894.714,"body":"Grow the impact there, particularly"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1891.744,"endTime":1894.714,"body":"by bringing in research,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1894.724,"endTime":1897.714,"body":"particularly by kind of marrying"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1894.724,"endTime":1897.714,"body":"this qualitative and quantitative."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1898.044,"endTime":1901.754,"body":"So honestly, I think you guys are"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1898.044,"endTime":1901.754,"body":"on absolutely the right track."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1901.754,"endTime":1904.754,"body":"Like you've kind of taken some of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1901.754,"endTime":1904.754,"body":"the experimentation and research"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1904.754,"endTime":1907.514,"body":"we've done in the past and are"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1904.754,"endTime":1907.514,"body":"saying, here's how we can scale this."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1907.544,"endTime":1910.224,"body":"Like Ben, I've loved the segments"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1907.544,"endTime":1910.224,"body":"that you and Dan have been doing,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1910.434,"endTime":1914.85,"body":"kind of recapping and bringing"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1910.434,"endTime":1914.85,"body":"insights from, guest interviews."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1915.247,"endTime":1918.037,"body":"For me, I just can't wait to see"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1915.247,"endTime":1918.037,"body":"how you scale it and how you make"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1918.037,"endTime":1919.587,"body":"these kind of repeatable motions."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1919.786,"endTime":1922.716,"body":"Oh, I will add one more thing,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1919.786,"endTime":1922.716,"body":"which is, Since I don't have a great"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1922.716,"endTime":1925.456,"body":"insight for you here on like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1922.716,"endTime":1925.456,"body":"here's what I think you should do."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1925.656,"endTime":1927.906,"body":"I'll just say like, I'll name a couple"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1925.656,"endTime":1927.906,"body":"more episodes that I really love,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1927.936,"endTime":1931.416,"body":"because I just want to keep shouting"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1927.936,"endTime":1931.416,"body":"out the folks who have my favorites,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1931.766,"endTime":1933.226,"body":"that I think would be great examples."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1933.236,"endTime":1937.596,"body":"One, like getting the story of how someone"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1933.236,"endTime":1937.596,"body":"built something, I think is something that"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1937.776,"endTime":1939.836,"body":"people love and can have a lot of value."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1940.216,"endTime":1944.286,"body":"Like going back to One of our early"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1940.216,"endTime":1944.286,"body":"episodes, the audio quality is"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1944.286,"endTime":1946.766,"body":"not as good as the current show,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1944.286,"endTime":1946.766,"body":"but bear with us if you go back"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1946.766,"endTime":1951.326,"body":"and listen, co founding Kubernetes"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1946.766,"endTime":1951.326,"body":"with Microsoft CVP, Brendan Burns."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1951.326,"endTime":1956.266,"body":"Brendan's both fantastic person and"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1951.326,"endTime":1956.266,"body":"also is someone who just brought so"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1956.266,"endTime":1957.926,"body":"much insight about how that went down."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1957.926,"endTime":1960.506,"body":"So I would love to hear more of"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1957.926,"endTime":1960.506,"body":"this, like, Hey, like, here's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1960.506,"endTime":1964.026,"body":"a person who helped create this"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1960.506,"endTime":1964.026,"body":"amazing open source thing or did"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1964.026,"endTime":1966.346,"body":"this really cool, founding approach."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1966.346,"endTime":1967.866,"body":"Like how did they really do that?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1967.866,"endTime":1968.746,"body":"What's the nitty gritty there?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1969.261,"endTime":1972.891,"body":"and then like for future looking"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1969.261,"endTime":1972.891,"body":"stuff, like Aarathi Vidyasagar,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1973.101,"endTime":1974.401,"body":"VP of Engineering at LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1974.451,"endTime":1977.301,"body":"really enjoyed talking to her a couple"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1974.451,"endTime":1977.301,"body":"months back, and they've now released"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1977.301,"endTime":1979.101,"body":"like their first LinkedIn AI agent."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1979.411,"endTime":1983.101,"body":"so kind of staying on that cutting"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1979.411,"endTime":1983.101,"body":"edge with like what's happening at the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1983.101,"endTime":1986.281,"body":"research, then how is that pairing into"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1983.101,"endTime":1986.281,"body":"product production, I think is great."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1986.831,"endTime":1989.281,"body":"and then the, the other theme I"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1986.831,"endTime":1989.281,"body":"would just name is like, You know,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1989.361,"endTime":1992.831,"body":"a couple of conversations from early"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1989.361,"endTime":1992.831,"body":"in season four, Neha Batra with"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1992.861,"endTime":1994.581,"body":"GitHub, VP of engineering there."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1994.831,"endTime":1998.551,"body":"And then Netflix's Carol Barrett,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1994.831,"endTime":1998.551,"body":"gave us a kind of blueprint for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":1998.561,"endTime":2000.191,"body":"building inspired engineering teams."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2000.441,"endTime":2002.901,"body":"And so, you know, exactly what"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2000.441,"endTime":2002.901,"body":"I think Andrew was talking about"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2002.901,"endTime":2006.881,"body":"earlier, that was like the people"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2002.901,"endTime":2006.881,"body":"conversations and the, the qualitative"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2006.951,"endTime":2011.111,"body":"insights paired with quantitative"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2006.951,"endTime":2011.111,"body":"data, I think is what makes, makes a"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2011.111,"endTime":2013.345,"body":"show at its best and really special"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2014.019,"endTime":2015.899,"body":"Alright, well"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2014.019,"endTime":2015.899,"body":"I've got just one more question"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2015.999,"endTime":2017.529,"body":"before we let our audience go."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2017.589,"endTime":2021.766,"body":"So Andrew, if somebody wants to get"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2017.589,"endTime":2021.766,"body":"more involved in the Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2021.766,"endTime":2023.162,"body":"community, where should they go?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2023.883,"endTime":2026.203,"body":"The first place"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2023.883,"endTime":2026.203,"body":"they should go is our Substack."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2026.553,"endTime":2030.973,"body":"If you're only listening to the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2026.553,"endTime":2030.973,"body":"then you're only getting half the story."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2031.023,"endTime":2035.873,"body":"It's important that you go to the Substack"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2031.023,"endTime":2035.873,"body":"and subscribe to our newsletter, where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2035.873,"endTime":2039.553,"body":"we drop insights every week, and we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2035.873,"endTime":2039.553,"body":"link to some of these great research"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2039.553,"endTime":2041.573,"body":"topics that Ben's alluding to as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2041.573,"endTime":2046.183,"body":"This format's just going to continue to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2041.573,"endTime":2046.183,"body":"expand, so definitely make sure that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2046.183,"endTime":2050.487,"body":"sign up for the weekly newsletter there,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2046.183,"endTime":2050.487,"body":"and we'll stay in touch on that platform."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2050.872,"endTime":2053.442,"body":"As well, you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2050.872,"endTime":2053.442,"body":"listening to us on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2053.442,"endTime":2055.812,"body":"If you haven't already, make"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2053.442,"endTime":2055.812,"body":"sure that you're subscribed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2055.832,"endTime":2058.022,"body":"That way you can stay tuned"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2055.832,"endTime":2058.022,"body":"for next year and don't have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2058.022,"endTime":2059.842,"body":"to go hunting for the episodes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2060.242,"endTime":2063.872,"body":"And outside of that, on LinkedIn is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2060.242,"endTime":2063.872,"body":"the best place to be looking for us."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2063.892,"endTime":2066.352,"body":"We're going to be going to events"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2063.892,"endTime":2066.352,"body":"and, we're going to be making"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2066.352,"endTime":2067.902,"body":"that presence very well known."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2068.072,"endTime":2069.802,"body":"And so if you are online"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2068.072,"endTime":2069.802,"body":"and you're engaging with."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2069.872,"endTime":2072.172,"body":"Dev Interrupted, I promise"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2069.872,"endTime":2072.172,"body":"you're not going to miss it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2072.442,"endTime":2075.882,"body":"And so when you see us, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2072.442,"endTime":2075.882,"body":"reach out, say hi, like the comments,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2076.122,"endTime":2080.192,"body":"share it so that your fellow, leaders"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2076.122,"endTime":2080.192,"body":"and teammates can see, uh, what we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2080.192,"endTime":2081.822,"body":"doing here and maybe even join you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2082.072,"endTime":2084.932,"body":"you could even send it to your mom, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2082.072,"endTime":2084.932,"body":"know, if, if you want to bring her along,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2085.142,"endTime":2088.952,"body":"going back to the earlier question of how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2085.142,"endTime":2088.952,"body":"do I explain technical debt to my grandma?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2089.172,"endTime":2092.802,"body":"I think you can start by maybe, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2089.172,"endTime":2092.802,"body":"bringing her for the journey as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2092.922,"endTime":2097.422,"body":"And most importantly, if you see me out"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2092.922,"endTime":2097.422,"body":"at a conference anywhere, whether it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2097.422,"endTime":2100.712,"body":"looks like I'm doing Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2097.422,"endTime":2100.712,"body":"stuff or not, you definitely need to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2100.712,"endTime":2102.962,"body":"come say hello and don't be a stranger."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2103.746,"endTime":2106.576,"body":"So you heard"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2103.746,"endTime":2106.576,"body":"it here instead of Christmas songs"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2106.636,"endTime":2110.366,"body":"when you're with family this year,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2106.636,"endTime":2110.366,"body":"play a Dev Interrupted episode."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2110.559,"endTime":2112.829,"body":"That could be a great"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2110.559,"endTime":2112.829,"body":"episode explaining technical debt"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2112.829,"endTime":2115.259,"body":"to your grandmother or explaining"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2112.829,"endTime":2115.259,"body":"technical debt to your family."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2115.259,"endTime":2116.429,"body":"This could be a whole theme guys."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2117.022,"endTime":2120.392,"body":"Explaining technical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2117.022,"endTime":2120.392,"body":"concepts to your family members is a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2120.392,"endTime":2125.892,"body":"hilarious concept and About this time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2120.392,"endTime":2125.892,"body":"last year, I was at AWS reInvent, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2125.892,"endTime":2130.532,"body":"they were having a competition, or like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2125.892,"endTime":2130.532,"body":"a social competition, really, around"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2130.912,"endTime":2136.082,"body":"a party rock, which was creating like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2130.912,"endTime":2136.082,"body":"LLM applications from just kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2136.122,"endTime":2140.182,"body":"typing in what you wanted it to do,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2136.122,"endTime":2140.182,"body":"and then a bedrock would take care of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2140.182,"endTime":2141.862,"body":"all of the logic in the background."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2141.862,"endTime":2144.352,"body":"And the idea is that anybody can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2141.862,"endTime":2144.352,"body":"write an app because you're just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2144.352,"endTime":2145.952,"body":"writing it in your natural language."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2146.192,"endTime":2150.572,"body":"And so the tool I made while I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2146.192,"endTime":2150.572,"body":"was at reInvent, was called Eli5."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2150.822,"endTime":2155.062,"body":"And so it took any conference"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2150.822,"endTime":2155.062,"body":"description or any session track"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2155.062,"endTime":2156.712,"body":"description from anything I went."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2157.192,"endTime":2159.912,"body":"It broke it down into a way I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2157.192,"endTime":2159.912,"body":"explain it to a five year old."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2160.142,"endTime":2163.332,"body":"So that is a tool that you could use to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2160.142,"endTime":2163.332,"body":"take things you learn at a conference."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2163.592,"endTime":2167.122,"body":"Yeah, that was something that I did"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2163.592,"endTime":2167.122,"body":"after, uh, I think, I think, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2167.132,"endTime":2170.952,"body":"Brook Jameson, put me up to task on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2167.132,"endTime":2170.952,"body":"that one, and that was what I made."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2171.504,"endTime":2172.574,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2171.504,"endTime":2172.574,"body":"I need to use that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2174.379,"endTime":2178.609,"body":"So with that said,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2174.379,"endTime":2178.609,"body":"Conor, I want to express my sincerest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2178.619,"endTime":2182.469,"body":"gratitude for everything that you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2178.619,"endTime":2182.469,"body":"done for Dev Interrupted, you know, both"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2182.549,"endTime":2186.729,"body":"behind the microphone, but also behind"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2182.549,"endTime":2186.729,"body":"the scenes, you know, literally none of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2186.729,"endTime":2188.309,"body":"this would have been possible without you."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2188.309,"endTime":2189.539,"body":"So again, thank you."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2190.059,"endTime":2193.849,"body":"Do you have any final thoughts or"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2190.059,"endTime":2193.849,"body":"messages for the Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2193.869,"endTime":2195.219,"body":"community before you head out?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2195.612,"endTime":2196.332,"body":"I'm excited."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2196.332,"endTime":2197.322,"body":"I'll miss y'all."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2197.342,"endTime":2200.792,"body":"but you're in for a treat with what Andrew"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2197.342,"endTime":2200.792,"body":"and Ben and Dan are going to do with the"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2200.792,"endTime":2203.452,"body":"show, particularly at devinterrupted."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2203.452,"endTime":2203.471,"body":"substack."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2203.472,"endTime":2207.522,"body":"com, which you should subscribe to as,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2203.472,"endTime":2207.522,"body":"of which we keep bringing up, there's"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2207.532,"endTime":2213.072,"body":"such an opportunity to, Have this show"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2207.532,"endTime":2213.072,"body":"be a central part of how engineering"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2213.092,"endTime":2215.812,"body":"leaders and engineers who want to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2213.092,"endTime":2215.812,"body":"be leaders think about the world."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2216.152,"endTime":2219.502,"body":"I also want to give a big shout out to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2216.152,"endTime":2219.502,"body":"Adam and Jackson in particular, who've"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2219.502,"endTime":2223.572,"body":"been integral parts of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2219.502,"endTime":2223.572,"body":"production team and have really helped"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2223.572,"endTime":2226.872,"body":"this show grow to what it is, for"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2223.572,"endTime":2226.872,"body":"listeners who want to stay in touch."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2227.207,"endTime":2229.017,"body":"There are kind of three great"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2227.207,"endTime":2229.017,"body":"ways to do that with me."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2229.037,"endTime":2230.687,"body":"One, my LinkedIn is the best place."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2231.147,"endTime":2233.467,"body":"Just LinkedIn, I'm pretty easy to find."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2233.877,"endTime":2237.007,"body":"They'll probably put an episode"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2233.877,"endTime":2237.007,"body":"link here in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2237.077,"endTime":2238.967,"body":"Please feel free to shoot"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2237.077,"endTime":2238.967,"body":"me a connection request."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2238.967,"endTime":2240.137,"body":"I love chatting with y'all."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2240.137,"endTime":2243.277,"body":"And always love to hear"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2240.137,"endTime":2243.277,"body":"what folks are up to."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2243.637,"endTime":2247.337,"body":"You can also follow my personal writing"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2243.637,"endTime":2247.337,"body":"on my test lab sub stack, which I write in"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2247.337,"endTime":2248.897,"body":"frequently and I'm trying to do more of."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2249.392,"endTime":2249.992,"body":"ConorBronson."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2250.082,"endTime":2250.762,"body":"substack."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2250.762,"endTime":2251.102,"body":"com."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2251.492,"endTime":2255.512,"body":"And if you want to continue to hear"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2251.492,"endTime":2255.512,"body":"me opine on various topics related to"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2255.512,"endTime":2258.962,"body":"engineering, uh, while I won't be doing"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2255.512,"endTime":2258.962,"body":"quite as much on the broad scale, I am"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2258.962,"endTime":2262.742,"body":"going to still be doing a weekly show"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2258.962,"endTime":2262.742,"body":"as part of the Chain of Thought podcast,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2262.752,"endTime":2267.882,"body":"focused on AI, so check it out, uh,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2262.752,"endTime":2267.882,"body":"wherever you get your podcasts, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2268.152,"endTime":2269.402,"body":"And yeah, don't hesitate to reach out."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2269.412,"endTime":2270.412,"body":"Love hearing from y'all."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2270.662,"endTime":2274.852,"body":"and I'll give one final CTA here"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2270.662,"endTime":2274.852,"body":"too, which is, folks, you've heard"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2274.852,"endTime":2279.352,"body":"me say this A hundred plus times"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2274.852,"endTime":2279.352,"body":"on the show, maybe 200 at this"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2279.352,"endTime":2280.482,"body":"point, over the last four years."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2280.482,"endTime":2283.052,"body":"But if you're listening to the show"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2280.482,"endTime":2283.052,"body":"and you're listening to this holiday"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2283.052,"endTime":2288.002,"body":"episode and you haven't left a rating"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2283.052,"endTime":2288.002,"body":"or review for Dev Interrupted on your"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2288.002,"endTime":2291.412,"body":"podcasting app of choice, whether"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2288.002,"endTime":2291.412,"body":"that's Spotify, Apple Podcasts,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2291.532,"endTime":2293.352,"body":"wherever else, what are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2293.362,"endTime":2294.702,"body":"You're listening to the holiday episode."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2294.712,"endTime":2296.032,"body":"You clearly enjoy the show."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2296.032,"endTime":2297.782,"body":"You clearly value this community."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2298.042,"endTime":2298.982,"body":"like we need you."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2299.197,"endTime":2301.347,"body":"And, yeah, make sure you"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2299.197,"endTime":2301.347,"body":"leave that rating or review."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2301.517,"endTime":2304.227,"body":"It really does make such a difference"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2301.517,"endTime":2304.227,"body":"in how the show is recommended"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2304.227,"endTime":2305.547,"body":"in the algorithm on Spotify."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2305.847,"endTime":2309.647,"body":"It helps the show land incredible guests"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2305.847,"endTime":2309.647,"body":"that you get, then get the value from"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2309.647,"endTime":2312.837,"body":"because they see, oh, the show's huge,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2309.647,"endTime":2312.837,"body":"it's got all these ratings and reviews."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2313.037,"endTime":2313.527,"body":"so just do it."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2313.587,"endTime":2314.527,"body":"It takes two seconds."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2314.547,"endTime":2317.527,"body":"It, it, uh, harms nobody, helps everybody."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2317.677,"endTime":2319.577,"body":"and that's, I think that's my"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2317.677,"endTime":2319.577,"body":"final time doing that, but,"},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2319.577,"endTime":2320.747,"body":"it's been a distinct pleasure."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2320.797,"endTime":2321.357,"body":"Ben, Andrew,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2321.499,"endTime":2324.739,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2321.499,"endTime":2324.739,"body":"thanks to you, man."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2324.759,"endTime":2328.389,"body":"And, you know, all I want for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2324.759,"endTime":2328.389,"body":"the holidays is tons of positive"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2328.419,"endTime":2330.879,"body":"ratings on, on podcast apps."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2332.009,"endTime":2334.039,"body":"It would be an immense gift to all of us."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2334.699,"endTime":2339.069,"body":"So, Andrew, it's great to have you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2334.699,"endTime":2339.069,"body":"here and helping us, keep running this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2339.069,"endTime":2342.919,"body":"tradition of having this holiday episode"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2339.069,"endTime":2342.919,"body":"and helping us continue to engage with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2342.919,"endTime":2344.389,"body":"engineering leaders around the world."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2344.869,"endTime":2347.389,"body":"Is there any last words from"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2344.869,"endTime":2347.389,"body":"you before we end this season?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2347.389,"endTime":2347.439,"body":"Thanks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2348.475,"endTime":2350.805,"body":"Well, like I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2348.475,"endTime":2350.805,"body":"already said, be sure to reach"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2350.805,"endTime":2352.165,"body":"out to me and connect with me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2352.165,"endTime":2355.785,"body":"I'm looking forward to meeting and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2352.165,"endTime":2355.785,"body":"learning more from all of our guests."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2356.205,"endTime":2359.315,"body":"So I'll make sure that I drop an easy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2356.205,"endTime":2359.315,"body":"way for you to get in contact with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2359.315,"endTime":2362.405,"body":"me in the newsletter, which you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2359.315,"endTime":2362.405,"body":"definitely going to be subscribing to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2362.415,"endTime":2364.315,"body":"on Substack after you listen to this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2364.975,"endTime":2365.975,"body":"So thanks again."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2366.005,"endTime":2368.885,"body":"And again, I'm really excited"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2366.005,"endTime":2368.885,"body":"and humbled to be here."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2368.885,"endTime":2372.685,"body":"So I'm looking forward to hosting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2368.885,"endTime":2372.685,"body":"many more great conversations"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2372.685,"endTime":2373.775,"body":"like this one next year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2374.594,"endTime":2377.504,"body":"And you know, as we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2374.594,"endTime":2377.504,"body":"wrap up this holiday episode, I want to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2377.504,"endTime":2381.964,"body":"take a moment to really just thank all of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2377.504,"endTime":2381.964,"body":"our listeners for their continued support."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2382.274,"endTime":2385.154,"body":"We can't do this without you there for us."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2385.474,"endTime":2388.454,"body":"And if you are enjoying the show,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2385.474,"endTime":2388.454,"body":"I'm going to do exactly what"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2388.454,"endTime":2390.484,"body":"Conor said he's done 200 times."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2390.714,"endTime":2393.764,"body":"Please take a moment, subscribe, give us."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2393.764,"endTime":2395.604,"body":"A rating, tune in every week."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2395.614,"endTime":2399.384,"body":"It really helps us spread the word"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2395.614,"endTime":2399.384,"body":"of all of these great engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2399.384,"endTime":2400.834,"body":"leaders that we bring on our community."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2401.554,"endTime":2406.004,"body":"And if you want more delivered to your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2401.554,"endTime":2406.004,"body":"inbox, we've said it enough already, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2406.004,"endTime":2407.844,"body":"please check out our Substack newsletter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2408.524,"endTime":2412.254,"body":"The podcast will be taking a short break,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2408.524,"endTime":2412.254,"body":"but we'll return in three weeks for the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2412.254,"endTime":2414.554,"body":"start of season five on January 7th."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2414.604,"endTime":2417.524,"body":"And until then have a safe"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2414.604,"endTime":2417.524,"body":"and happy holiday season."},{"speaker":"Conor Bronsdon","startTime":2418.337,"endTime":2419.057,"body":"holidays, everyone."}]}