{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":0.719,"endTime":3.979,"body":"It's a new year"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":0.719,"endTime":3.979,"body":"and a new season of Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":4.319,"endTime":8.709,"body":"and I hope you have managed to keep"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":4.319,"endTime":8.709,"body":"up with your new year's resolution."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":9.309,"endTime":10.759,"body":"Welcome to season five."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":11.359,"endTime":13.099,"body":"I'm Ben Lloyd Pearson, your host."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":13.139,"endTime":17.369,"body":"I'm also joined by my fellow hosts"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":13.139,"endTime":17.369,"body":"Andrew Ziegler and Dan Lines."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":17.729,"endTime":21.059,"body":"Andrew, Dan, how are"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":17.729,"endTime":21.059,"body":"your resolutions going?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":21.88,"endTime":23.1,"body":"awesome to be here, Ben."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":23.1,"endTime":23.92,"body":"Mine's going great."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":23.92,"endTime":28.64,"body":"So mine was to play Mario Party"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":23.92,"endTime":28.64,"body":"with my family every single"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":28.65,"endTime":30.01,"body":"day, which I've accomplished."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":30.01,"endTime":31.71,"body":"My four year old now plays."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":32.08,"endTime":33.959,"body":"so far so good with that resolution."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":34.259,"endTime":35.579,"body":"I am"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":34.259,"endTime":35.579,"body":"so jealous right now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":35.906,"endTime":39.076,"body":"my resolution for running"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":35.906,"endTime":39.076,"body":"every day is still on track, but you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":39.076,"endTime":42.566,"body":"know, we're seven days in, so maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":39.076,"endTime":42.566,"body":"ask me this question again in a month."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":43.085,"endTime":45.565,"body":"You know, personally,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":43.085,"endTime":45.565,"body":"I'm not really a resolutions person."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":45.565,"endTime":50.425,"body":"I'm more of like a one day at a time"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":45.565,"endTime":50.425,"body":"kind of person, like be the best"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":50.525,"endTime":52.565,"body":"today and then do better tomorrow."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":52.565,"endTime":55.855,"body":"So if I do a resolution, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":52.565,"endTime":55.855,"body":"just give up the moment I fail."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":56.841,"endTime":58.611,"body":"You have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":56.841,"endTime":58.611,"body":"new day resolutions instead"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":58.611,"endTime":59.771,"body":"of new year resolutions."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":60.071,"endTime":61.57,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":60.071,"endTime":61.57,"body":"yeah, every single day."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":61.68,"endTime":65.49,"body":"So, yeah, long time listeners might be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":61.68,"endTime":65.49,"body":"wondering what's going on right now."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":66.19,"endTime":68.78,"body":"This is a new opening segment,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":66.19,"endTime":68.78,"body":"we've not done this before"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":68.78,"endTime":69.97,"body":"on the Dev Interrupted show."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":70.287,"endTime":72.667,"body":"with the new season"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":70.287,"endTime":72.667,"body":"comes new opportunities."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":73.207,"endTime":75.697,"body":"We're experimenting with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":73.207,"endTime":75.697,"body":"the format a little bit."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":75.967,"endTime":78.687,"body":"and we actually covered this a little"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":75.967,"endTime":78.687,"body":"bit in the final show of last year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":78.957,"endTime":81.767,"body":"So if you're curious about all the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":78.957,"endTime":81.767,"body":"updates that have happened, I encourage"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":81.767,"endTime":85.707,"body":"you just to go back one episode, once"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":81.767,"endTime":85.707,"body":"you finish listening to this episode."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":86.234,"endTime":87.154,"body":"And so."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":87.239,"endTime":90.369,"body":"So, I want to help queue up the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":87.239,"endTime":90.369,"body":"guests that we have today so that,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":90.479,"endTime":92.919,"body":"you know, our audience really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":90.479,"endTime":92.919,"body":"knows what they're getting into."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":92.979,"endTime":95.612,"body":"So today's guest is Sowmya Subramanian."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":95.969,"endTime":99.469,"body":"She has an immensely"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":95.969,"endTime":99.469,"body":"impressive background."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":99.787,"endTime":105.067,"body":"To start, she spent about 15 years at"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":99.787,"endTime":105.067,"body":"Google working on basically every single"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":105.067,"endTime":110.447,"body":"one of my favorite products like YouTube"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":105.067,"endTime":110.447,"body":"and Google Maps and Search and even more."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":111.232,"endTime":115.472,"body":"And anyone who follows like the dev"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":111.232,"endTime":115.472,"body":"productivity space knows that Google"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":115.472,"endTime":120.032,"body":"is pretty frequently cited for their"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":115.472,"endTime":120.032,"body":"extensive research on the subject."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":120.432,"endTime":124.282,"body":"most recently she was the executive vice"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":120.432,"endTime":124.282,"body":"president at Warner Brothers Discovery."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":124.662,"endTime":128.992,"body":"And was responsible for leading their"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":124.662,"endTime":128.992,"body":"global streaming and digital platforms."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":129.282,"endTime":134.153,"body":"So in essence, she kind of took like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":129.282,"endTime":134.153,"body":"the leading data driven practices"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":134.182,"endTime":138.282,"body":"from an elite organization like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":134.182,"endTime":138.282,"body":"Google and applied them to this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":138.282,"endTime":139.922,"body":"more traditional company that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":140.252,"endTime":143.932,"body":"And I think that was honestly undergoing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":140.252,"endTime":143.932,"body":"like a massive digital transformation."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":144.511,"endTime":148.551,"body":"reason I wanted to bring you in Dan is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":144.511,"endTime":148.551,"body":"because, you know, as I talked to her, she"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":148.551,"endTime":152.341,"body":"connected so many concepts and ideas that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":148.551,"endTime":152.341,"body":"we consistently hear from our community,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":152.783,"endTime":156.423,"body":"specifically about applying quantitative"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":152.783,"endTime":156.423,"body":"metrics to developer productivity."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":156.883,"endTime":158.923,"body":"And, you know, everyone will hear"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":156.883,"endTime":158.923,"body":"my interview with Somya later."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":159.238,"endTime":162.328,"body":"so you don't want to miss it, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":159.238,"endTime":162.328,"body":"Dan, to start, I want to cover what"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":162.328,"endTime":167.593,"body":"I think is the high level narrative"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":162.328,"endTime":167.593,"body":"and that's launching a data driven"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":167.633,"endTime":169.393,"body":"developer productivity initiative."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":169.703,"endTime":173.913,"body":"as I mentioned, in many ways, Google's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":169.703,"endTime":173.913,"body":"practices are a big part of why you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":173.913,"endTime":179.133,"body":"founded LinearB to begin with, they do"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":173.913,"endTime":179.133,"body":"things like hosting the Dora organization,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":179.133,"endTime":180.713,"body":"DevOps research and assessment."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":181.083,"endTime":183.523,"body":"think a lot of our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":181.083,"endTime":183.523,"body":"is familiar with Dora metrics."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":183.913,"endTime":186.583,"body":"and if you're not your favorite"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":183.913,"endTime":186.583,"body":"GPT, we'll explain it to you."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":187.333,"endTime":190.563,"body":"But they've done extensive research"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":187.333,"endTime":190.563,"body":"on dev productivity, dev experience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":191.208,"endTime":194.468,"body":"what really stood out to me was"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":191.208,"endTime":194.468,"body":"hearing her, how she applied these"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":194.478,"endTime":196.548,"body":"practices to this new organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":197.228,"endTime":200.058,"body":"in particular, she mentioned how"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":197.228,"endTime":200.058,"body":"early on they had a lot of difficulty,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":200.068,"endTime":202.178,"body":"establishing standard definitions."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":202.698,"endTime":205.658,"body":"Dan, so how does that match conversations"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":202.698,"endTime":205.658,"body":"that you've had with engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":205.678,"endTime":209.618,"body":"leaders what else do you hear about as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":205.678,"endTime":209.618,"body":"like an early struggle for engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":209.618,"endTime":210.888,"body":"leaders who are on this journey?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":211.534,"endTime":212.314,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":212.314,"endTime":215.704,"body":"I mean, I'll just give you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":212.314,"endTime":215.704,"body":"some real life examples, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":215.804,"endTime":218.874,"body":"I have a, uh, a company"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":215.804,"endTime":218.874,"body":"that I, I'm working with."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":218.874,"endTime":223.434,"body":"I won't say what the company is, but"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":218.874,"endTime":223.434,"body":"I think it's, maybe similar to what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":223.434,"endTime":225.174,"body":"our very intelligent guests think."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":225.524,"endTime":227.974,"body":"Where she's at now, very similar."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":227.974,"endTime":231.864,"body":"It's about 4, 000 developer for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":227.974,"endTime":231.864,"body":"the 5, 000 developer deployment."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":231.954,"endTime":236.444,"body":"And their, first challenge was"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":231.954,"endTime":236.444,"body":"really around standardization."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":236.534,"endTime":239.704,"body":"Now, when you first come in, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":236.534,"endTime":239.704,"body":"you're going to pick metrics."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":239.704,"endTime":241.044,"body":"Actually, that's pretty easy."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":241.044,"endTime":244.834,"body":"Like if you're working with a company"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":241.044,"endTime":244.834,"body":"like LinearB or an, Any company like that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":245.074,"endTime":245.354,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":245.354,"endTime":248.554,"body":"You pick a few metrics that have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":245.354,"endTime":248.554,"body":"to do with, let's say efficiency."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":248.554,"endTime":252.564,"body":"So you go with like cycle time, for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":248.554,"endTime":252.564,"body":"example, you pick a few metrics that go"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":252.564,"endTime":254.874,"body":"with quality to balance it out, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":254.874,"endTime":257.294,"body":"Meantime to restore CFR, PR size."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":257.294,"endTime":258.144,"body":"There's a bunch of them."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":258.724,"endTime":261.724,"body":"And maybe then you pick some"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":258.724,"endTime":261.724,"body":"project delivery metrics."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":261.724,"endTime":264.714,"body":"We always like planning accuracy"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":261.724,"endTime":264.714,"body":"and capacity accuracy, but."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":265.229,"endTime":269.299,"body":"The metrics are there and usually"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":265.229,"endTime":269.299,"body":"picking them is actually pretty easy."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":269.299,"endTime":276.369,"body":"What's tough about standardizing is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":269.299,"endTime":276.369,"body":"where does the metric start and stop?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":276.429,"endTime":279.589,"body":"So even if you think of something,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":276.429,"endTime":279.589,"body":"and maybe that sounds basic, but it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":279.589,"endTime":281.379,"body":"really not like, think about cycle time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":281.389,"endTime":283.159,"body":"When does work actually begin?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":283.879,"endTime":287.709,"body":"Does it begin when I start"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":283.879,"endTime":287.709,"body":"typing on my keyboard?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":287.719,"endTime":289.579,"body":"Does it begin on first commit?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":289.589,"endTime":294.079,"body":"Does it begin when the CEO has"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":289.589,"endTime":294.079,"body":"an idea about doing something?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":294.549,"endTime":299.159,"body":"And then, or maybe when UX designers"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":294.549,"endTime":299.159,"body":"start putting their first Figma."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":299.159,"endTime":301.609,"body":"So you got to kind of make"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":299.159,"endTime":301.609,"body":"a determination there."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":301.869,"endTime":309.289,"body":"Now, what I saw actually work really"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":301.869,"endTime":309.289,"body":"well is you got to pick something."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":309.429,"endTime":310.919,"body":"So you say, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":311.429,"endTime":315.849,"body":"Work begins when the work is in progress."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":315.899,"endTime":319.399,"body":"And with this company, what they said was,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":315.899,"endTime":319.399,"body":"Hey, we're going to take a look at Jira."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":319.399,"endTime":321.789,"body":"Jira has an in progress state."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":322.819,"endTime":324.509,"body":"Now you're in progress state."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":324.509,"endTime":328.189,"body":"You can decide, is it when"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":324.509,"endTime":328.189,"body":"UX starts doing something?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":328.229,"endTime":332.769,"body":"Is it when a developer starts coding?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":332.779,"endTime":334.499,"body":"Is it sometime even before then?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":334.799,"endTime":338.859,"body":"As long as it's in the in progress"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":334.799,"endTime":338.859,"body":"state, that's what it means for us."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":338.869,"endTime":341.209,"body":"So you determine what in"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":338.869,"endTime":341.209,"body":"progress means for you."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":342.034,"endTime":345.944,"body":"And then on the deployment side, what they"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":342.034,"endTime":345.944,"body":"said was, hey, we're going to use an API."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":346.584,"endTime":350.564,"body":"So you send to the, program or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":346.584,"endTime":350.564,"body":"to LinearB or whoever you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":350.564,"endTime":352.554,"body":"using, hey, the release went out."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":352.574,"endTime":355.264,"body":"Now, I think what was really cool"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":352.574,"endTime":355.264,"body":"about that, because they have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":355.274,"endTime":359.594,"body":"lots and lots of business units,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":355.274,"endTime":359.594,"body":"you know, larger, Enterprise."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":359.854,"endTime":364.584,"body":"It's kind of like each BU or each team"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":359.854,"endTime":364.584,"body":"leader and owner can decide for themselves"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":364.584,"endTime":366.494,"body":"like what does starting mean to me?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":366.494,"endTime":368.284,"body":"What does in progress mean to me?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":368.534,"endTime":371.574,"body":"Just make sure that you have that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":368.534,"endTime":371.574,"body":"state correct in your PM tool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":371.574,"endTime":372.984,"body":"In this case, it was JIRA."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":373.614,"endTime":377.394,"body":"And then on the API side, it gives a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":373.614,"endTime":377.394,"body":"lot of flexibility to say, hey, this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":377.404,"endTime":381.799,"body":"is what it means for us when, uh, Uh,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":377.404,"endTime":381.799,"body":"it could be when you go to prepod."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":381.799,"endTime":383.899,"body":"It could be when you go"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":381.799,"endTime":383.899,"body":"all the way to production."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":384.459,"endTime":388.749,"body":"Every team works differently and to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":384.459,"endTime":388.749,"body":"be honest with you, you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":388.749,"endTime":393.649,"body":"force everyone to work exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":388.749,"endTime":393.649,"body":"way just so you can measure something."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":394.099,"endTime":397.799,"body":"But you need to give some of those"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":394.099,"endTime":397.799,"body":"boundaries of what start and stop"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":397.799,"endTime":401.149,"body":"means and yeah, I would say that's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":397.799,"endTime":401.149,"body":"kind of the first challenge."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":401.169,"endTime":402.349,"body":"Standardization."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":402.674,"endTime":405.814,"body":"You know, prescribe something"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":402.674,"endTime":405.814,"body":"around it, but give each team a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":405.814,"endTime":410.194,"body":"little bit of flexibility to decide,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":405.814,"endTime":410.194,"body":"what it means for start and stop."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":410.918,"endTime":414.818,"body":"Yeah, I think so many"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":410.918,"endTime":414.818,"body":"organizations feel like they have to have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":414.838,"endTime":418.818,"body":"one definition across the entire company"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":414.838,"endTime":418.818,"body":"before they can really measure things."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":418.818,"endTime":421.788,"body":"But it's almost like the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":418.818,"endTime":421.788,"body":"reverse of that is true."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":421.788,"endTime":426.058,"body":"It's like, you actually need to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":421.788,"endTime":426.058,"body":"empower your teams to, to prioritize,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":426.128,"endTime":429.398,"body":"like to, to define how their"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":426.128,"endTime":429.398,"body":"process works, but then prioritize"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":429.398,"endTime":430.808,"body":"the elements that matter the most"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":431.108,"endTime":431.324,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":431.434,"endTime":434.424,"body":"Well, if you think about it, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":431.434,"endTime":434.424,"body":"like, what's the point of measurement?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":434.424,"endTime":435.694,"body":"It's really to improve."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":435.854,"endTime":438.414,"body":"Like, that's really why"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":435.854,"endTime":438.414,"body":"you should be doing it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":438.804,"endTime":443.434,"body":"Every business unit, every team, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":438.804,"endTime":443.434,"body":"know, every director, every team leader,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":444.314,"endTime":446.724,"body":"improvement may mean a different thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":447.024,"endTime":451.729,"body":"You can't tell, one area of the business"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":447.024,"endTime":451.729,"body":"that's working, you know, super SaaS"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":451.739,"endTime":457.73,"body":"style, maybe really cutting edge, that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":451.739,"endTime":457.73,"body":"has Continuous delivery to be measured"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":457.78,"endTime":461.71,"body":"against something that's like maybe"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":457.78,"endTime":461.71,"body":"more old school or hardware style and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":461.71,"endTime":463.48,"body":"you have like a one month deployment."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":463.48,"endTime":464.65,"body":"It just doesn't make any sense."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":464.66,"endTime":469.31,"body":"So yeah, I mean have some standards"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":464.66,"endTime":469.31,"body":"of what start and stop means, but I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":469.32,"endTime":473.392,"body":"think if you try to force everyone"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":469.32,"endTime":473.392,"body":"into working exactly the same way,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":473.392,"endTime":474.592,"body":"it's kind of missing the point."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":474.592,"endTime":476.462,"body":"It's just about improvement"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":474.592,"endTime":476.462,"body":"from where you are."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":477.563,"endTime":480.833,"body":"another big topic"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":477.563,"endTime":480.833,"body":"that stood out to me from the interview,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":480.953,"endTime":484.963,"body":"uh, and we'll hear some stories about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":480.953,"endTime":484.963,"body":"how, Somya, while she was in her early"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":484.963,"endTime":488.823,"body":"days at Warner Brothers, there was some"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":484.963,"endTime":488.823,"body":"pretty major disruptions to production"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":488.833,"endTime":493.373,"body":"services, like very typical, like things"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":488.833,"endTime":493.373,"body":"are failing in production kind of story."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":493.853,"endTime":498.133,"body":"one of the results from that was that they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":493.853,"endTime":498.133,"body":"started focusing on mean time to restore"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":498.323,"endTime":500.393,"body":"as a major focus area for improvement."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":500.593,"endTime":504.223,"body":"But it actually may have led to a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":500.593,"endTime":504.223,"body":"situation where people started celebrating"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":504.223,"endTime":508.463,"body":"failures a little bit too much, and they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":504.223,"endTime":508.463,"body":"had to start changing their priorities."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":508.953,"endTime":511.383,"body":"one of the big changes that came out"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":508.953,"endTime":511.383,"body":"of this was they implemented some"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":511.383,"endTime":516.418,"body":"practices that, Turned this gamification"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":511.383,"endTime":516.418,"body":"into a net positive, specifically"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":516.418,"endTime":519.998,"body":"requiring that teams actually start"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":516.418,"endTime":519.998,"body":"like solving the problems that they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":519.998,"endTime":524.158,"body":"uncover rather than just like celebrating"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":519.998,"endTime":524.158,"body":"fire drills, as a result, the entire"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":524.158,"endTime":529.428,"body":"organization was sort of forced to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":524.158,"endTime":529.428,"body":"focus more on resilience as a whole."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":529.788,"endTime":532.188,"body":"So what are your thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":529.788,"endTime":532.188,"body":"the gamification of metrics?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":532.604,"endTime":534.324,"body":"Yeah, I have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":532.604,"endTime":534.324,"body":"two thoughts there."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":534.334,"endTime":536.314,"body":"I get this question all the time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":537.134,"endTime":540.304,"body":"The first thing is this, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":537.134,"endTime":540.304,"body":"I actually love that story."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":540.344,"endTime":543.284,"body":"So I like, can't, can't"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":540.344,"endTime":543.284,"body":"wait for everybody to hear."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":543.284,"endTime":545.924,"body":"I think it's really funny if"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":543.284,"endTime":545.924,"body":"they were like, uh, celebrating"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":545.924,"endTime":547.404,"body":"failures a little bit too much."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":548.159,"endTime":550.169,"body":"But here, here's my own experience."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":550.189,"endTime":557.759,"body":"One is before you roll out a data driven"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":550.189,"endTime":557.759,"body":"practice, I think the fear of gamification"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":557.839,"endTime":560.079,"body":"outweighs what will actually happen."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":561.199,"endTime":565.119,"body":"So the thought of, oh my god, all"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":561.199,"endTime":565.119,"body":"of my developers are going to start"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":565.119,"endTime":569.839,"body":"changing their behavior in this like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":565.119,"endTime":569.839,"body":"gamification way and start, I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":569.839,"endTime":571.729,"body":"know, writing crazy amounts of code."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":571.729,"endTime":573.859,"body":"Like obviously you're not"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":571.729,"endTime":573.859,"body":"going to measure lines of code."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":574.899,"endTime":576.329,"body":"I think inherently."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":576.574,"endTime":578.044,"body":"You know, this is what I like to believe."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":578.044,"endTime":581.424,"body":"And this is what I've seen with like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":578.044,"endTime":581.424,"body":"our rollouts with our customers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":581.814,"endTime":583.434,"body":"Developers want to do the right thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":583.434,"endTime":585.024,"body":"Like people want to do the right thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":585.904,"endTime":589.984,"body":"So they're actually, it's not going to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":585.904,"endTime":589.984,"body":"cause anarchy and go into this like full"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":589.984,"endTime":592.194,"body":"gamification mode in some negative way."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":592.194,"endTime":594.024,"body":"Like I've never seen that actually happen."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":594.024,"endTime":595.984,"body":"Although I think the fear of it exists."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":596.665,"endTime":600.635,"body":"If you're in a situation like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":596.665,"endTime":600.635,"body":"you just described where, okay,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":600.635,"endTime":604.345,"body":"there is some gamification,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":600.635,"endTime":604.345,"body":"happening on a particular metric."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":604.345,"endTime":608.288,"body":"In this case, I think you said it"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":604.345,"endTime":608.288,"body":"was, like celebrating, failures"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":608.288,"endTime":609.908,"body":"and like how fast you fix them."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":610.748,"endTime":615.948,"body":"You actually have a highly"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":610.748,"endTime":615.948,"body":"energized and highly, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":615.988,"endTime":619.678,"body":"I don't know, culturized or like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":615.988,"endTime":619.678,"body":"a great culture of developers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":619.828,"endTime":622.668,"body":"And you can just adjust the game."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":622.968,"endTime":624.768,"body":"Thinking about, I have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":622.968,"endTime":624.768,"body":"Mario Party on my mind."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":625.183,"endTime":625.553,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":626.023,"endTime":627.153,"body":"You guys play Mario Party?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":627.203,"endTime":630.113,"body":"Every turn you play a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":627.203,"endTime":630.113,"body":"different minigame at the end."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":630.713,"endTime":633.413,"body":"It's not like you play the same"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":630.713,"endTime":633.413,"body":"minigame every single time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":633.523,"endTime":637.143,"body":"So it's like you can adjust the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":633.523,"endTime":637.143,"body":"game you're playing because you have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":637.153,"endTime":642.103,"body":"evangelized a good culture saying, hey,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":637.153,"endTime":642.103,"body":"we do want to improve these metrics."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":642.143,"endTime":643.513,"body":"Like, that's the goal for us."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":643.533,"endTime":644.643,"body":"We're gonna work on that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":644.673,"endTime":646.353,"body":"And you just adjust them a little bit."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":646.363,"endTime":648.133,"body":"So you say, hey, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":648.153,"endTime":651.408,"body":"We're, we're We're not going to only"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":648.153,"endTime":651.408,"body":"look at mean time to restore, we're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":651.408,"endTime":653.348,"body":"going to look at change failure rate."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":654.128,"endTime":657.648,"body":"So you can't just have a good mean time"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":654.128,"endTime":657.648,"body":"to restore, that's failing the game."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":657.648,"endTime":660.088,"body":"You have to also have a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":657.648,"endTime":660.088,"body":"good change failure rate."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":660.148,"endTime":662.658,"body":"Okay, now everyone is going"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":660.148,"endTime":662.658,"body":"to be energized to do that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":662.658,"endTime":665.358,"body":"So, that's what I've seen"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":662.658,"endTime":665.358,"body":"kind of in real life."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":665.358,"endTime":668.708,"body":"Mostly like the fear is kind of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":665.358,"endTime":668.708,"body":"outweighing what actually happens."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":668.798,"endTime":672.308,"body":"And if you are getting some gamification,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":668.798,"endTime":672.308,"body":"I don't think it's actually a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":672.308,"endTime":675.878,"body":"You just kind of tweak that energy into"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":672.308,"endTime":675.878,"body":"the right direction, you'll be good to go."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":676.799,"endTime":678.129,"body":"I think you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":676.799,"endTime":678.129,"body":"making a really great point"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":678.129,"endTime":682.369,"body":"about how if gamification's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":678.129,"endTime":682.369,"body":"happening, you can just adjust."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":682.379,"endTime":686.519,"body":"I think all of the best games I play"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":682.379,"endTime":686.519,"body":"where they introduce new things or there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":686.519,"endTime":689.069,"body":"new things available and people play"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":686.519,"endTime":689.069,"body":"them and people figure out how to play"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":689.069,"endTime":693.069,"body":"them very well and then someone will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":689.069,"endTime":693.069,"body":"come in and nerf things or reset things."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":693.069,"endTime":696.839,"body":"And, uh, or, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":693.069,"endTime":696.839,"body":"it's that linear sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":696.839,"endTime":700.409,"body":"Like, the same way you develop things,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":696.839,"endTime":700.409,"body":"things, um, you're not really looking for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":700.409,"endTime":702.266,"body":"a new character or something like that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":702.266,"endTime":706.246,"body":"You don't want to just, you don't want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":702.266,"endTime":706.246,"body":"to start with, a new character that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":706.246,"endTime":709.43,"body":"you haven't acclimatized to, which"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":706.246,"endTime":709.43,"body":"is kind of the, conservation of, of,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":709.464,"endTime":711.321,"body":"critical needs, sort of way of creating."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":711.442,"endTime":715.567,"body":"You have to, you know, you have to,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":711.442,"endTime":715.567,"body":"you know, set a high standard for what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":715.567,"endTime":719.785,"body":"you've done, and, um, then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":715.567,"endTime":719.785,"body":"set other standards She hits really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":719.785,"endTime":725.395,"body":"hard, um, on a point that resonated"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":719.785,"endTime":725.395,"body":"with me about how, you develop habits,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":725.495,"endTime":728.545,"body":"you might lose them, maybe you don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":725.495,"endTime":728.545,"body":"go to the gym every day, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":728.545,"endTime":731.705,"body":"don't exercise every day, but it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":728.545,"endTime":731.705,"body":"about revisiting those habits, picking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":731.705,"endTime":733.325,"body":"them back up and highlighting them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":733.695,"endTime":738.741,"body":"As important and habits, I think,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":733.695,"endTime":738.741,"body":"are what set people apart, in terms"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":738.741,"endTime":740.761,"body":"of like how productive they can be."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":740.761,"endTime":743.991,"body":"So I'm wondering, Dan, from your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":740.761,"endTime":743.991,"body":"perspective, what are some good habits"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":743.991,"endTime":748.691,"body":"that you see in engineering leaders that,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":743.991,"endTime":748.691,"body":"set them apart and make them exceptional?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":749.635,"endTime":753.395,"body":"that is a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":749.635,"endTime":753.395,"body":"question and something that I think my"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":753.465,"endTime":756.355,"body":"opinion on this continues to evolve."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":756.365,"endTime":759.145,"body":"Like we're all learning, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":756.365,"endTime":759.145,"body":"know, I, I'm working with all"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":759.145,"endTime":760.435,"body":"these different organizations."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":760.435,"endTime":761.565,"body":"I'm seeing different things."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":761.565,"endTime":766.585,"body":"So I want to answer it in,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":761.565,"endTime":766.585,"body":"maybe two main First of all, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":766.585,"endTime":769.135,"body":"think consistency does matter."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":769.725,"endTime":770.935,"body":"What is a ritual?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":770.935,"endTime":775.545,"body":"Ritual is something that you are doing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":770.935,"endTime":775.545,"body":"kind of on like a particular frequency."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":775.965,"endTime":780.095,"body":"Whether it's like Friday night playing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":775.965,"endTime":780.095,"body":"video games or whether it's like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":780.095,"endTime":784.395,"body":"Monday morning, the first thing I do"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":780.095,"endTime":784.395,"body":"is read my emails, whatever it is, it"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":784.395,"endTime":786.725,"body":"has to happen on a particular basis."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":787.145,"endTime":791.895,"body":"And when you're kind of like evangelizing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":787.145,"endTime":791.895,"body":"a movement, you have to get the rest"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":791.895,"endTime":793.635,"body":"of the people that are in the movement."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":793.635,"endTime":797.46,"body":"In this case, it's like managers,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":793.635,"endTime":797.46,"body":"team leaders, Developers knowing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":797.46,"endTime":798.79,"body":"that the thing is gonna happen."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":799.29,"endTime":803.44,"body":"So for example, you have something"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":799.29,"endTime":803.44,"body":"like a metrics monthly where it's like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":803.44,"endTime":805.25,"body":"hey We're all gonna come together."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":806.18,"endTime":810.36,"body":"Maybe you do it over some food some pizza"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":806.18,"endTime":810.36,"body":"something like that I always like to bring"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":810.36,"endTime":814.66,"body":"food and food into these kinds of rituals"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":810.36,"endTime":814.66,"body":"and say hey, we're all gonna just look"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":814.66,"endTime":819.23,"body":"at the metrics together We're gonna see"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":814.66,"endTime":819.23,"body":"if they went up or down And we're going"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":819.23,"endTime":821.08,"body":"to have an open conversation about that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":821.08,"endTime":824.03,"body":"I mean, that's the most important"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":821.08,"endTime":824.03,"body":"part, the conversation about what's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":824.03,"endTime":825.84,"body":"happening, what are people experiencing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":826.19,"endTime":828.94,"body":"But the thing is, it's like happening"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":826.19,"endTime":828.94,"body":"once a month and everyone knows,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":829.05,"endTime":831.63,"body":"maybe it's like the third week"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":829.05,"endTime":831.63,"body":"every month, something like that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":832.27,"endTime":833.96,"body":"that I see work really well."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":833.96,"endTime":835.83,"body":"I mean, people are kind"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":833.96,"endTime":835.83,"body":"of already doing this."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":836.19,"endTime":838.14,"body":"but I think like developer one on ones."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":838.57,"endTime":842.16,"body":"maybe you you change it a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":838.57,"endTime":842.16,"body":"make it a little more data driven"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":842.17,"endTime":846.69,"body":"Making it a little bit more I would"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":842.17,"endTime":846.69,"body":"say maybe fair is the right word like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":846.69,"endTime":851.16,"body":"hey, you're a junior developer We're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":846.69,"endTime":851.16,"body":"gonna look at some data Here's what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":851.16,"endTime":852.95,"body":"it takes to be a senior developer."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":852.95,"endTime":856.247,"body":"I need you to start reviewing more"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":852.95,"endTime":856.247,"body":"PRs, like that's your next mission."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":856.29,"endTime":858.59,"body":"And that's everybody's next"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":856.29,"endTime":858.59,"body":"mission that's like a junior"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":858.59,"endTime":860.27,"body":"developer, like get contribution."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":860.66,"endTime":861.84,"body":"That's consistency."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":861.84,"endTime":864.73,"body":"Okay, like now I know when I come"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":861.84,"endTime":864.73,"body":"to my one on one, we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":864.73,"endTime":866.45,"body":"talk about this, like that's good."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":866.905,"endTime":870.275,"body":"And the other thing that I want to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":866.905,"endTime":870.275,"body":"say, yeah, there's a few others on"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":870.285,"endTime":874.235,"body":"here that we had written down like a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":870.285,"endTime":874.235,"body":"sprint retrospective and again coming"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":874.235,"endTime":877.945,"body":"with data and what we worked on, but"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":874.235,"endTime":877.945,"body":"the other thing that I wanted to make a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":877.945,"endTime":883.7,"body":"point about and kind of like my evolving"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":877.945,"endTime":883.7,"body":"thought of this is Every metric that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":883.713,"endTime":888.93,"body":"you're trying to improve, I actually"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":883.713,"endTime":888.93,"body":"think the first thing that you should do"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":889.03,"endTime":896.868,"body":"is deploy some type of automation that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":889.03,"endTime":896.868,"body":"increases productivity for that metric."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":897.448,"endTime":904.253,"body":"So, let's say that you're saying,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":897.448,"endTime":904.253,"body":"okay, I'm having a hard time"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":904.253,"endTime":906.453,"body":"with bugs found in production."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":906.995,"endTime":911.665,"body":"Let's make some type of automation"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":906.995,"endTime":911.665,"body":"within the PR cycle to ensure there's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":911.665,"endTime":915.695,"body":"a round robin and every time there's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":911.665,"endTime":915.695,"body":"a senior developer and a junior"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":915.695,"endTime":918.565,"body":"developer that need to review the code."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":919.385,"endTime":924.265,"body":"And the reason that my thought process"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":919.385,"endTime":924.265,"body":"is going in that direction, like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":925.055,"endTime":928.185,"body":"If you're going to show a metric,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":925.055,"endTime":928.185,"body":"I think it's awesome to say, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":928.195,"endTime":929.755,"body":"here's this metric cycle timer."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":929.755,"endTime":931.505,"body":"Here's this metric change failure rate."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":931.955,"endTime":935.435,"body":"And by the way, we're already doing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":931.955,"endTime":935.435,"body":"something automated to improve it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":935.545,"endTime":938.075,"body":"I think that's like the right way to go."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":938.115,"endTime":941.055,"body":"So then you start getting into"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":938.115,"endTime":941.055,"body":"this ritual of improvement."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":941.644,"endTime":943.825,"body":"Like, who cares about looking"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":941.644,"endTime":943.825,"body":"at all these metrics if you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":943.825,"endTime":945.335,"body":"not doing something to improve?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":945.335,"endTime":948.645,"body":"So that's kind of like, I know"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":945.335,"endTime":948.645,"body":"it's a long winded answer, but"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":948.645,"endTime":950.245,"body":"that's like my new thought process."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":950.305,"endTime":953.815,"body":"Every metric that you show, make"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":950.305,"endTime":953.815,"body":"sure you're deploying some type"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":953.815,"endTime":955.435,"body":"of automation for improvement."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":955.765,"endTime":959.875,"body":"And I think that will really like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":955.765,"endTime":959.875,"body":"uh, get people pumped up in the right"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":959.875,"endTime":963.005,"body":"way of, Oh, we're not just going to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":959.875,"endTime":963.005,"body":"look at this stuff, like we're taking"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":963.005,"endTime":965.295,"body":"proactive steps to make them better."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":966.41,"endTime":969.23,"body":"You're driving a really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":966.41,"endTime":969.23,"body":"good point here in that with rituals,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":969.23,"endTime":971.69,"body":"there's maybe two classifications."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":971.94,"endTime":973.85,"body":"automation is like a ritual."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":973.85,"endTime":976.26,"body":"It doesn't maybe necessarily"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":973.85,"endTime":976.26,"body":"need to involve people."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":976.44,"endTime":980.36,"body":"it fixes toil and it allows you to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":976.44,"endTime":980.36,"body":"focus on those human elements, those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":980.36,"endTime":983.69,"body":"human issues that, that you're touching"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":980.36,"endTime":983.69,"body":"on, even to the point of bringing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":983.7,"endTime":987.11,"body":"pizza to that meeting, because it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":983.7,"endTime":987.11,"body":"a human conversation you're with."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":987.22,"endTime":987.82,"body":"People."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":987.82,"endTime":991.55,"body":"And the more that the automation can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":987.82,"endTime":991.55,"body":"solve that toil, the more that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":991.55,"endTime":995.65,"body":"can solve those human problems, which"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":991.55,"endTime":995.65,"body":"are the most difficult ones to solve."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":995.97,"endTime":999.29,"body":"that reminds me of something that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":995.97,"endTime":999.29,"body":"Ori ended us last year with on our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":999.29,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"predictions, where he really drove home"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":999.29,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"the point that, you know, don't forget"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1003.27,"endTime":1006.5,"body":"at the end of the day, you're working"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1003.27,"endTime":1006.5,"body":"with humans, you're working with people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1006.7,"endTime":1010.56,"body":"and you have to communicate and rituals,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1006.7,"endTime":1010.56,"body":"they come in two different styles as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1010.56,"endTime":1015.18,"body":"you're teaching us now, and you have to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1010.56,"endTime":1015.18,"body":"really, uh, Put away those automated TOIL"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1015.18,"endTime":1016.87,"body":"ones so you can focus on the human ones."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1017.33,"endTime":1019.11,"body":"And that, and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1017.33,"endTime":1019.11,"body":"that's our hint to the audience to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1019.11,"endTime":1024.396,"body":"go check out Ori Keren's predictions"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1019.11,"endTime":1024.396,"body":"episode for 2025 from last year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1024.816,"endTime":1028.586,"body":"but Dan, thank you so much for coming"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1024.816,"endTime":1028.586,"body":"in to share your thoughts today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1028.626,"endTime":1031.626,"body":"You know, I knew you were going to have a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1028.626,"endTime":1031.626,"body":"lot of brilliant things to say about this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1031.626,"endTime":1036.022,"body":"just because of, know, all of the really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1031.626,"endTime":1036.022,"body":"wonderful insights that Somya brought up."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1036.022,"endTime":1039.632,"body":"So, you know, to our audience, stay"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1036.022,"endTime":1039.632,"body":"tuned after the break, you'll hear my"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1039.632,"endTime":1041.905,"body":"conversation with Somya Subramanian."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1042.108,"endTime":1046.098,"body":"Hey everyone, I'm your host, Ben"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1042.108,"endTime":1046.098,"body":"Lloyd Pearson, and I'm honored today"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1046.118,"endTime":1048.398,"body":"to be joined by Sowmya Subramanian."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1048.518,"endTime":1053.108,"body":"Sowmya has an incredible background in"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1048.518,"endTime":1053.108,"body":"engineering leadership that includes"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1053.108,"endTime":1058.978,"body":"places like Oracle, YouTube, Google"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1053.108,"endTime":1058.978,"body":"search, but most recently Warner"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1058.978,"endTime":1062.953,"body":"Brothers Discovery as the executive"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1058.978,"endTime":1062.953,"body":"vice president leading their global"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1062.953,"endTime":1064.409,"body":"streaming and digital platforms."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1064.409,"endTime":1067.379,"body":"So thanks for coming on this show, Sowmya."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1067.918,"endTime":1068.968,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1069.653,"endTime":1073.18,"body":"So we've already had"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1069.653,"endTime":1073.18,"body":"a little bit of a chance to speak about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1073.18,"endTime":1078.02,"body":"this sort of longstanding journey that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1073.18,"endTime":1078.02,"body":"you've been on, that's really like kind"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1078.02,"endTime":1082.36,"body":"of focused on maximizing like software"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1078.02,"endTime":1082.36,"body":"engineering, operational excellence."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1082.81,"endTime":1086.16,"body":"And, you know, I know Google has,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1082.81,"endTime":1086.16,"body":"has really been one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1086.16,"endTime":1088.09,"body":"drivers of research in this area."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1088.14,"endTime":1091.73,"body":"You know, I would even say that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1088.14,"endTime":1091.73,"body":"like a lot of the foundations of, of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1091.73,"endTime":1096.173,"body":"LinearB, like the company that I work"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1091.73,"endTime":1096.173,"body":"for, uh, is built upon like research"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1096.223,"endTime":1097.663,"body":"that's being conducted at Google."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1098.403,"endTime":1099.163,"body":"So I really do."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1099.488,"endTime":1102.668,"body":"Think that our, you know, our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1099.488,"endTime":1102.668,"body":"would just love to get like your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1102.668,"endTime":1106.065,"body":"inside perspective on this journey"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1102.668,"endTime":1106.065,"body":"as someone who's, gone through it at"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1106.095,"endTime":1108.605,"body":"better, you know, such a high level."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1108.615,"endTime":1111.745,"body":"So to, to kick it off, let's,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1108.615,"endTime":1111.745,"body":"let's just get into, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1111.745,"endTime":1115.245,"body":"what was the motivating factor"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1111.745,"endTime":1115.245,"body":"for you when you launched this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1115.245,"endTime":1118.901,"body":"journey into, to analyzing your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1115.245,"endTime":1118.901,"body":"organization's operational excellence?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1119.971,"endTime":1123.321,"body":"Yeah, and you're"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1119.971,"endTime":1123.321,"body":"right, like, Google is a place where,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1123.451,"endTime":1128.171,"body":"you know, the whole site reliability"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1123.451,"endTime":1128.171,"body":"engineering, we called it SRE, came"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1128.171,"endTime":1132.811,"body":"to be and became a really big focus,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1128.171,"endTime":1132.811,"body":"particularly as we designed and built."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1133.536,"endTime":1135.676,"body":"Products for billions of users."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1135.846,"endTime":1141.306,"body":"And at that level of scale, having"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1135.846,"endTime":1141.306,"body":"that promise to the user that when"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1141.306,"endTime":1145.226,"body":"you come to the site and when you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1141.306,"endTime":1145.226,"body":"interact with any feature, big or"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1145.226,"endTime":1151.763,"body":"small, you're able to delight the user"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1145.226,"endTime":1151.763,"body":"and give consistently a high quality"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1151.763,"endTime":1154.043,"body":"of experience is extremely critical."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1154.073,"endTime":1156.603,"body":"So that is really the biggest motivation."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1157.143,"endTime":1161.793,"body":"And for myself as an engineer, as an"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1157.143,"endTime":1161.793,"body":"engineering leader, ever since the start"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1161.793,"endTime":1167.913,"body":"of my career, I've naturally kind of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1161.793,"endTime":1167.913,"body":"experienced it and seen it, uh, even"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1167.913,"endTime":1170.213,"body":"before it was this formally defined."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1170.693,"endTime":1172.993,"body":"So I was at Microsoft as an intern."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1173.013,"endTime":1179.433,"body":"I was at Oracle, uh, right after college"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1173.013,"endTime":1179.433,"body":"when time, uh, career in the industry."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1179.923,"endTime":1185.42,"body":"And, one of the things that resonated"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1179.923,"endTime":1185.42,"body":"repeatedly in both those companies was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1186.36,"endTime":1190.18,"body":"even though we were building, I was, you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1186.36,"endTime":1190.18,"body":"know, part of the Oracle ATI database"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1190.27,"endTime":1195.12,"body":"group, and we are building database"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1190.27,"endTime":1195.12,"body":"infrastructure that many enterprises were"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1195.12,"endTime":1200.45,"body":"ending up using, not direct customers,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1195.12,"endTime":1200.45,"body":"even in that kind of an environment."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1200.941,"endTime":1206.011,"body":"That promise to the enterprise, that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1200.941,"endTime":1206.011,"body":"promise to the customer of a product, a"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1206.011,"endTime":1210.861,"body":"platform that you deliver will actually"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1206.011,"endTime":1210.861,"body":"perform, will actually scale, will be"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1210.861,"endTime":1215.491,"body":"reliable for them to then build their"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1210.861,"endTime":1215.491,"body":"business around was a really big deal."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1215.561,"endTime":1221.828,"body":"And that is how that focus on operational"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1215.561,"endTime":1221.828,"body":"excellence on quality came to be."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1222.303,"endTime":1225.953,"body":"The other thing was also"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1222.303,"endTime":1225.953,"body":"around developer productivity."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1226.183,"endTime":1230.143,"body":"You know, as I grew in my career and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1226.183,"endTime":1230.143,"body":"particularly, definitely at Google in"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1230.233,"endTime":1235.056,"body":"the 15 years that I was there, I was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1230.233,"endTime":1235.056,"body":"in Google Maps, in YouTube, in search,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1235.116,"endTime":1240.476,"body":"and each of these were different,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1235.116,"endTime":1240.476,"body":"scales as an organization, different"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1240.486,"endTime":1246.066,"body":"maturity levels, and very different,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1240.486,"endTime":1246.066,"body":"Types of products we were developing."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1246.066,"endTime":1250.216,"body":"So I was responsible for user"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1246.066,"endTime":1250.216,"body":"generated content in Google Maps."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1250.326,"endTime":1254.456,"body":"And one of our biggest challenges"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1250.326,"endTime":1254.456,"body":"there was you're giving mapping"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1254.496,"endTime":1258.146,"body":"directions about local businesses,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1254.496,"endTime":1258.146,"body":"about addresses to the user."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1258.576,"endTime":1264.951,"body":"And in that state, If you get something"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1258.576,"endTime":1264.951,"body":"wrong, like the opening hours, as simple"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1264.951,"endTime":1269.931,"body":"as that, or, the marker location, I think"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1264.951,"endTime":1269.931,"body":"we've all had that, where, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1269.931,"endTime":1271.841,"body":"routes you in a slightly different way."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1272.151,"endTime":1276.646,"body":"So that, reliable source of information"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1272.151,"endTime":1276.646,"body":"and that Ground truth, as we"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1276.646,"endTime":1278.746,"body":"called it, was extremely important."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1279.246,"endTime":1283.376,"body":"And it became apparent to me as I"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1279.246,"endTime":1283.376,"body":"went from engineer to engineering"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1283.456,"endTime":1289.356,"body":"leader and scaled organizations,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1283.456,"endTime":1289.356,"body":"it's not just about delivering a"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1289.356,"endTime":1291.056,"body":"great experience to the end user."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1291.086,"endTime":1294.856,"body":"It's also about developer happiness"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1291.086,"endTime":1294.856,"body":"and developer productivity."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1295.43,"endTime":1299.43,"body":"and that is what, you know, when I"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1295.43,"endTime":1299.43,"body":"joined Warner Brothers Discovery,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1299.53,"endTime":1301.11,"body":"in the last three years here."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1301.645,"endTime":1307.285,"body":"In my first 30 days, it was very, very"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1301.645,"endTime":1307.285,"body":"obvious that the culture there, there were"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1307.285,"endTime":1310.245,"body":"opportunities to improve and to reorient."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1310.645,"endTime":1313.048,"body":"And, that's how I gravitated towards it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1314.128,"endTime":1314.298,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1314.298,"endTime":1316.978,"body":"And I, I really like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1314.298,"endTime":1316.978,"body":"how you're, you're talking"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1316.978,"endTime":1320.818,"body":"about, you know, Google being so"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1316.978,"endTime":1320.818,"body":"focused on delighting the user."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1320.818,"endTime":1325.273,"body":"And I think that perception of like,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1320.818,"endTime":1325.273,"body":"An engineer being responsible for the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1325.273,"endTime":1328.723,"body":"features they build all the way down"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1325.273,"endTime":1328.723,"body":"to like the end user's interactions"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1328.723,"endTime":1330.613,"body":"with it and how it impacts their usage."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1330.613,"endTime":1334.55,"body":"Like, I hear a lot of like high"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1330.613,"endTime":1334.55,"body":"performing engineering organizations"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1334.55,"endTime":1339.196,"body":"that sort of treat engineering in that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1334.55,"endTime":1339.196,"body":"light, one of the things that, I've,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1339.256,"endTime":1343.116,"body":"I've heard you mention is, is how, and,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1339.256,"endTime":1343.116,"body":"well, this is something we hear from"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1343.116,"endTime":1346.807,"body":"our audience a lot as well, is they're,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1343.116,"endTime":1346.807,"body":"they're constantly balancing like this."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1347.371,"endTime":1350.421,"body":"Operational excellence side of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1347.371,"endTime":1350.421,"body":"things, like trying to be as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1350.421,"endTime":1354.741,"body":"productive and efficient as possible"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1350.421,"endTime":1354.741,"body":"and provide, have your developers."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1355.036,"endTime":1357.816,"body":"You know, give them the best"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1355.036,"endTime":1357.816,"body":"experience you can, but you also"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1357.816,"endTime":1361.366,"body":"have to sort of balance it with like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1357.816,"endTime":1361.366,"body":"the strategic needs of the business."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1361.456,"endTime":1361.836,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1362.286,"endTime":1365.297,"body":"So, I, I'd like to hear your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1362.286,"endTime":1365.297,"body":"on like, you know, how do you in"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1365.297,"endTime":1369.207,"body":"a world where the business has all"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1365.297,"endTime":1369.207,"body":"these needs and wants and that's where"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1369.207,"endTime":1372.547,"body":"the revenue is coming from, how do"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1369.207,"endTime":1372.547,"body":"you balance like those two things?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1373.387,"endTime":1376.167,"body":"Yeah, it's a great"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1373.387,"endTime":1376.167,"body":"question and I don't think we ever"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1376.167,"endTime":1379.327,"body":"solve for it fully ever in any company."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1379.417,"endTime":1381.197,"body":"I think it's a journey"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1379.417,"endTime":1381.197,"body":"always and you iterate."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1382.267,"endTime":1386.257,"body":"having said that, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1382.267,"endTime":1386.257,"body":"see them extremely interrelated."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1386.307,"endTime":1391.547,"body":"So even let's say we take Warner Brother"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1386.307,"endTime":1391.547,"body":"Discovery, one of my initial observations"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1391.567,"endTime":1397.117,"body":"was the culture within the company, not"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1391.567,"endTime":1397.117,"body":"just on the engineering side, but as"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1397.117,"endTime":1401.302,"body":"a cross functional working on building"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1397.117,"endTime":1401.302,"body":"the best streaming service out there."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1401.76,"endTime":1403.06,"body":"it was very reactive."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1403.5,"endTime":1408.16,"body":"and for me, that is an immediate sign"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1403.5,"endTime":1408.16,"body":"that what are the things that we can do"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1408.19,"endTime":1412.66,"body":"both on the technology side and as a cross"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1408.19,"endTime":1412.66,"body":"functional group on the whole business"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1413.01,"endTime":1417.75,"body":"to shift us from that reactive mode to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1413.01,"endTime":1417.75,"body":"a more proactive, more intentional mode."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1418.32,"endTime":1423.841,"body":"the second thing was also, what are the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1418.32,"endTime":1423.841,"body":"business metrics you're trying to grow?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1424.171,"endTime":1427.251,"body":"So yes, you want to delight the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1424.171,"endTime":1427.251,"body":"user, but what does that look like?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1427.251,"endTime":1431.981,"body":"So for some place like Warner Brothers"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1427.251,"endTime":1431.981,"body":"Discovery, driving your subscriber"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1432.321,"endTime":1436.478,"body":"funnel, like growing the number of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1432.321,"endTime":1436.478,"body":"subscribers, retaining them through"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1436.478,"endTime":1441.408,"body":"reducing churn, increasing engagement"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1436.478,"endTime":1441.408,"body":"of the subscriber with your content."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1441.798,"endTime":1446.438,"body":"All of those were very critical top"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1441.798,"endTime":1446.438,"body":"line metrics that we wanted to improve."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1447.018,"endTime":1453.562,"body":"And When you look under the hood, it's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1447.018,"endTime":1453.562,"body":"very hard to, it's very easy to bring"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1453.572,"endTime":1458.362,"body":"in a lot of subscribers into a service,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1453.572,"endTime":1458.362,"body":"relatively speaking, but keeping them"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1458.372,"endTime":1462.912,"body":"there without churning out requires"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1458.372,"endTime":1462.912,"body":"that the subscribers are seeing value"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1462.912,"endTime":1468.042,"body":"in your service and are not going to get"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1462.912,"endTime":1468.042,"body":"frustrated by errors or outages or the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1468.042,"endTime":1473.537,"body":"spinning wheel or, you know, I download"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1468.042,"endTime":1473.537,"body":"content aboard my flight and then That"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1473.557,"endTime":1475.177,"body":"offline content doesn't play back."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1475.627,"endTime":1480.047,"body":"So basic things that they're not"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1475.627,"endTime":1480.047,"body":"working are frustrating to the user,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1480.087,"endTime":1483.047,"body":"which then impact the business metrics."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1483.047,"endTime":1487.096,"body":"So, for me, I think that is the triangle."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1487.096,"endTime":1490.556,"body":"Like when you look at, when you're"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1487.096,"endTime":1490.556,"body":"working across the business team,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1490.556,"endTime":1493.896,"body":"the engineering team, the product"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1490.556,"endTime":1493.896,"body":"team, and others across the company,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1494.126,"endTime":1496.726,"body":"support is another one, how do you."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1497.521,"endTime":1501.651,"body":"Bridged through the lens of the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1497.521,"endTime":1501.651,"body":"metrics that matter to each of them,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1502.101,"endTime":1505.821,"body":"while you can map it to the metrics"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1502.101,"endTime":1505.821,"body":"that matters to the other group."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1506.886,"endTime":1507.096,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1507.096,"endTime":1509.726,"body":"And that's, that's a, it's a great"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1507.096,"endTime":1509.726,"body":"segue to get a, to get a little"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1509.726,"endTime":1511.616,"body":"more tactical about this too."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1511.956,"endTime":1514.276,"body":"So let's, let's talk about metrics."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1514.276,"endTime":1516.926,"body":"Like what are, what are the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1514.276,"endTime":1516.926,"body":"metrics that you've standardized"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1516.926,"endTime":1518.226,"body":"around that you found work?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1518.386,"endTime":1520.086,"body":"Like, are there some that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1518.386,"endTime":1520.086,"body":"you found don't work?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1520.486,"endTime":1521.806,"body":"Like, let's hear your perspective on that."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1522.469,"endTime":1523.569,"body":"I think so."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1523.599,"endTime":1527.479,"body":"There's been a lot of research and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1523.599,"endTime":1527.479,"body":"study now that's been done around"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1527.489,"endTime":1529.519,"body":"what are good metrics to monitor."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1529.859,"endTime":1533.139,"body":"So for those who are not familiar, there's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1529.859,"endTime":1533.139,"body":"something called the DORA framework,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1533.519,"endTime":1538.259,"body":"that, uh, DevOps research and assessment"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1533.519,"endTime":1538.259,"body":"teams have, come up with, which I think"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1538.259,"endTime":1543.249,"body":"is a really good starting point for any"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1538.259,"endTime":1543.249,"body":"team, any organization, uh, regardless"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1543.249,"endTime":1544.879,"body":"of what part of the journey you're in."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1545.359,"endTime":1549.479,"body":"And in essence, the DORA metrics"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1545.359,"endTime":1549.479,"body":"really focus on three main things."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1549.519,"endTime":1554.509,"body":"What is your kind of deployment frequency,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1549.519,"endTime":1554.509,"body":"because that gives you a measure of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1554.839,"endTime":1557.819,"body":"how frequently are you able to develop."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1558.459,"endTime":1564.909,"body":"Test and push code to production"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1558.459,"endTime":1564.909,"body":"and the second big focus is lead"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1564.959,"endTime":1567.029,"body":"time to change or change stats."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1567.349,"endTime":1572.109,"body":"What is the time it takes from the time"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1567.349,"endTime":1572.109,"body":"from the time that you commit your code"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1572.409,"endTime":1574.549,"body":"to taking it into production release?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1574.984,"endTime":1577.004,"body":"And, change failure rates, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1577.004,"endTime":1581.814,"body":"Like how often are your changes"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1577.004,"endTime":1581.814,"body":"that you push, uh, causing failures"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1581.834,"endTime":1583.424,"body":"or you're having to roll back?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1583.704,"endTime":1587.544,"body":"So the Dora metrics, I think, give"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1583.704,"endTime":1587.544,"body":"a really nice framework to look at"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1587.844,"endTime":1592.204,"body":"your developer pipelines and end to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1587.844,"endTime":1592.204,"body":"end from development all the way to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1592.204,"endTime":1594.374,"body":"production, how are things looking?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1595.204,"endTime":1599.904,"body":"In addition to that, some of the other"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1595.204,"endTime":1599.904,"body":"metrics that we ended up, uh, focusing"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1599.904,"endTime":1606.225,"body":"on, are, you know, general kind of pre"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1599.904,"endTime":1606.225,"body":"production metrics, uh, in addition to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1606.225,"endTime":1608.415,"body":"these kind of pipeline type metrics."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1608.415,"endTime":1610.165,"body":"So, what are the bug stats?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1610.175,"endTime":1610.845,"body":"How many open?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1611.415,"endTime":1613.755,"body":"P0, P1, P2 bugs do you have?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1614.115,"endTime":1619.215,"body":"what is the kind of time to resolution"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1614.115,"endTime":1619.215,"body":"of these bugs and many organizations?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1619.215,"endTime":1622.425,"body":"And this is, I've seen it"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1619.215,"endTime":1622.425,"body":"time and time again at Google."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1622.425,"endTime":1624.715,"body":"I've seen it at Warner Brother Discovery."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1625.075,"endTime":1630.099,"body":"you know, you start out Very excited"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1625.075,"endTime":1630.099,"body":"to keep these metrics to look very nice"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1630.479,"endTime":1636.089,"body":"and current, but it's like, uh, working"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1630.479,"endTime":1636.089,"body":"out, you know, sometimes it just things"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1636.099,"endTime":1638.869,"body":"fall, fall off when time pressures come."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1639.009,"endTime":1643.809,"body":"So really looking at your bug glide"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1639.009,"endTime":1643.809,"body":"path and bug backlog and keeping that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1643.809,"endTime":1647.909,"body":"good hygiene and rigor that you don't"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1643.809,"endTime":1647.909,"body":"have bugs open for more than a year."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1648.199,"endTime":1650.119,"body":"And if they are open for more than a year."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1650.324,"endTime":1652.254,"body":"Does it even matter that you fix this bug?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1652.254,"endTime":1654.784,"body":"So having that bug rigor is one thing."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1655.384,"endTime":1657.984,"body":"And then typical outage stats, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1657.984,"endTime":1661.294,"body":"Like, uh, what's your mean"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1657.984,"endTime":1661.294,"body":"time to, uh, resolution?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1661.294,"endTime":1662.724,"body":"What's your mean time to repair?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1663.106,"endTime":1667.246,"body":"how many of these outages are"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1663.106,"endTime":1667.246,"body":"caused by kind of, uh, changes"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1667.246,"endTime":1668.876,"body":"that were pushed into production?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1669.296,"endTime":1674.206,"body":"How many of these outages were auto"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1669.296,"endTime":1674.206,"body":"detected versus manually detected?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1675.251,"endTime":1675.751,"body":"Yeah, that's great."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1675.771,"endTime":1678.941,"body":"That's very, very"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1675.771,"endTime":1678.941,"body":"comprehensive and holistic."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1678.941,"endTime":1679.951,"body":"So I love it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1679.951,"endTime":1683.441,"body":"And I think the message of,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1679.951,"endTime":1683.441,"body":"you know, starting with Dora"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1683.501,"endTime":1685.441,"body":"metrics, it really rings true."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1685.441,"endTime":1690.661,"body":"Like it's, I think, you know, not only"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1685.441,"endTime":1690.661,"body":"are they like pretty good at measuring"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1690.661,"endTime":1694.881,"body":"overall, like software delivery"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1690.661,"endTime":1694.881,"body":"efficiency and productivity, but they're,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1694.891,"endTime":1698.231,"body":"they're easy enough to grasp that,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1694.891,"endTime":1698.231,"body":"you know, we, we always think that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1698.596,"endTime":1701.746,"body":"Going down this road is, it's a, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1698.596,"endTime":1701.746,"body":"a pretty long journey and you kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1701.756,"endTime":1705.876,"body":"have to take the first step because,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1701.756,"endTime":1705.876,"body":"uh, there's a lot of metrics out there."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1705.876,"endTime":1707.366,"body":"There's a lot of ways to look at them."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1707.846,"endTime":1710.396,"body":"but Dora is really like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1707.846,"endTime":1710.396,"body":"such a great one to just."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1710.811,"endTime":1714.951,"body":"Easily start with and like, help you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1710.811,"endTime":1714.951,"body":"understand like, where to go next, you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1714.951,"endTime":1718.702,"body":"know, so using these metrics, like what"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1714.951,"endTime":1718.702,"body":"were some of the biggest sources of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1718.702,"endTime":1723.178,"body":"friction that, you uncovered, and we love"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1718.702,"endTime":1723.178,"body":"specifics, you know, as much as you can,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1723.908,"endTime":1727.738,"body":"I think each"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1723.908,"endTime":1727.738,"body":"organization, and this was a realization"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1727.738,"endTime":1732.468,"body":"for me, particularly in my role in Warner"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1727.738,"endTime":1732.468,"body":"Brother Discovery, because I'd been at"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1732.468,"endTime":1737.168,"body":"Google for 15 years, and, When you're"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1732.468,"endTime":1737.168,"body":"there in the company for so long, and it's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1737.168,"endTime":1742.102,"body":"a very engineering driven culture, you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1737.168,"endTime":1742.102,"body":"start taking a lot of things for granted,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1742.112,"endTime":1743.732,"body":"even though you complain all the time."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1744.042,"endTime":1745.822,"body":"You know, engineers love to complain."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1745.903,"endTime":1746.623,"body":"We all love to."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1746.623,"endTime":1749.533,"body":"I think that's how that's what"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1746.623,"endTime":1749.533,"body":"gets us to do better, I think."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1751.353,"endTime":1755.323,"body":"Versus when you come in new"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1751.353,"endTime":1755.323,"body":"into an organization, you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1755.353,"endTime":1757.273,"body":"suddenly have this aha moment."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1757.283,"endTime":1758.343,"body":"At least I had it."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1758.703,"endTime":1765.55,"body":"and a lot of what I did here was actually"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1758.703,"endTime":1765.55,"body":"taking concepts, taking rituals, taking"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1765.62,"endTime":1767.523,"body":"tools that, we had used at Google."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1768.068,"endTime":1772.028,"body":"And in a way, kind of adapting,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1768.068,"endTime":1772.028,"body":"reorienting it for this culture, for"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1772.038,"endTime":1776.278,"body":"this environment, for this need, and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1772.038,"endTime":1776.278,"body":"so to coming back to your question"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1776.278,"endTime":1781.788,"body":"about what were some of the challenges"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1776.278,"endTime":1781.788,"body":"or the friction that I found, I would"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1781.788,"endTime":1784.668,"body":"probably put it in three key buckets."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1784.848,"endTime":1789.863,"body":"One was, Baseline data and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1784.848,"endTime":1789.863,"body":"tooling and transparency."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1789.983,"endTime":1794.89,"body":"So what I mean by that is, when"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1789.983,"endTime":1794.89,"body":"I started, yes, there was JIRA."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1794.89,"endTime":1800.24,"body":"Yes, there were some stats and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1794.89,"endTime":1800.24,"body":"on paper, in a way, these DORA"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1800.27,"endTime":1801.94,"body":"metrics were being tracked."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1802.26,"endTime":1804.34,"body":"But they weren't really being tracked."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1804.35,"endTime":1809.84,"body":"Uh, used to always joke with my team"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1804.35,"endTime":1809.84,"body":"saying, you're better off with no data"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1810.17,"endTime":1812.78,"body":"and flying blind than misleading data."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1813.0,"endTime":1814.58,"body":"This is true about any data, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1814.61,"endTime":1819.06,"body":"Like whether you're using it for building"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1814.61,"endTime":1819.06,"body":"the personalization algorithm or making"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1819.07,"endTime":1824.12,"body":"business intelligence decisions or for"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1819.07,"endTime":1824.12,"body":"developers and your dev environment."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1824.66,"endTime":1828.32,"body":"so the first challenge was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1824.66,"endTime":1828.32,"body":"how do you standardize?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1829.09,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"Metric definitions, the source"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1829.09,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"of metrics, like how you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1833.59,"endTime":1835.9,"body":"compute, mean time to resolution."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1835.92,"endTime":1840.33,"body":"If it looks different than how"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1835.92,"endTime":1840.33,"body":"another team computes it, then it's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1840.33,"endTime":1842.16,"body":"like apples to orange comparison."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1842.22,"endTime":1845.14,"body":"Like you really don't have a"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1842.22,"endTime":1845.14,"body":"constructive productive discussion."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1846.38,"body":"So that was one."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1846.866,"endTime":1850.646,"body":"the second category was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1846.866,"endTime":1850.646,"body":"around culture and mindset."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1851.212,"endTime":1857.445,"body":"And what I mean by that is, I think"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1851.212,"endTime":1857.445,"body":"what I noticed here was there were a"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1857.445,"endTime":1862.615,"body":"lot of like Amazon people here at, uh,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1857.445,"endTime":1862.615,"body":"Warner Brother Discovery there are, and,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1862.675,"endTime":1866.975,"body":"you know, like I'm customer obsessed"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1862.675,"endTime":1866.975,"body":"that would get thrown around a lot."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1867.405,"endTime":1870.955,"body":"At the same time, engineering teams."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1871.6,"endTime":1875.5,"body":"A lot of times just focused on feature"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1871.6,"endTime":1875.5,"body":"development and it was someone else's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1875.5,"endTime":1880.907,"body":"problem, the release management team"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1875.5,"endTime":1880.907,"body":"or the QA team or, the DevOps team to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1880.917,"endTime":1885.977,"body":"look at, promoting these changes into"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1880.917,"endTime":1885.977,"body":"production and then what happens after."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1886.094,"endTime":1890.994,"body":"so there was a mindset change that I had"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1886.094,"endTime":1890.994,"body":"to bring about, which was about, When"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1890.994,"endTime":1896.434,"body":"you develop a feature, yes, there can"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1890.994,"endTime":1896.434,"body":"be specialized functions and roles and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1896.494,"endTime":1899.224,"body":"expertise across the entire organization."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1899.804,"endTime":1905.984,"body":"At the same time, we all sink or swim"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1899.804,"endTime":1905.984,"body":"together in how these things translate"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1905.984,"endTime":1908.904,"body":"into user value and user delight."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1909.2,"endTime":1912.04,"body":"and that was a big shift"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1909.2,"endTime":1912.04,"body":"that, we had to bring about."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1912.5,"endTime":1915.6,"body":"The third category was, you know, tooling."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1915.72,"endTime":1919.11,"body":"Uh, so even tooling and,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1915.72,"endTime":1919.11,"body":"uh, time management."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1919.43,"endTime":1924.97,"body":"So even if you have the best of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1919.43,"endTime":1924.97,"body":"intentions, if you're unable to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1925.57,"endTime":1931.11,"body":"prioritize and allocate time to make"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1925.57,"endTime":1931.11,"body":"it happen, and over time for it to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1931.26,"endTime":1935.85,"body":"sustain, if you don't have the right"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1931.26,"endTime":1935.85,"body":"tool links, that tooling or the toolkit"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1935.85,"endTime":1940.76,"body":"or the toolbox to allow you to do this"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1935.85,"endTime":1940.76,"body":"in a repeated, sustainable fashion."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1941.26,"endTime":1944.79,"body":"You will get spikes of improvement,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1941.26,"endTime":1944.79,"body":"and then you regress back."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1945.074,"endTime":1949.751,"body":"those were the three kind of big tiers"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":1945.074,"endTime":1949.751,"body":"of, friction points , if you will."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1950.341,"endTime":1953.031,"body":"uh, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1950.341,"endTime":1953.031,"body":"love your, your experience going from"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1953.031,"endTime":1958.438,"body":"an organization like Google to, Warner"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1953.031,"endTime":1958.438,"body":"Brothers Discovery, because, I, I've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1958.438,"endTime":1961.978,"body":"always believed that one of the best"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1958.438,"endTime":1961.978,"body":"ways that you can do great things is just"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1961.988,"endTime":1966.081,"body":"to bring expertise from, One experience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1961.988,"endTime":1966.081,"body":"and bring it and apply it to a new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1966.081,"endTime":1971.348,"body":"situation, and it's like things that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1966.081,"endTime":1971.348,"body":"you'll take for granted in a situation"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1971.358,"endTime":1975.838,"body":"like Google, suddenly are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1971.358,"endTime":1975.838,"body":"big challenges for an organization"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1976.088,"endTime":1977.978,"body":"like Warner Brothers potentially."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1978.508,"endTime":1982.008,"body":"you know, most organizations or most"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1978.508,"endTime":1982.008,"body":"engineering organizations would love to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1982.008,"endTime":1984.088,"body":"perform at the level that Google does."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1984.128,"endTime":1985.795,"body":"But, you know, again, it's a journey."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1985.795,"endTime":1991.195,"body":"So like doing things like establishing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1985.795,"endTime":1991.195,"body":"common definitions around basic"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1991.225,"endTime":1994.575,"body":"metrics is like something that you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1991.225,"endTime":1994.575,"body":"have to do as a part of that journey."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1995.071,"endTime":2001.001,"body":"let's talk a little bit about then what"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1995.071,"endTime":2001.001,"body":"it's like to walk An organization like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2001.431,"endTime":2006.971,"body":"Warner Brothers Discovery and get buy in"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2001.431,"endTime":2006.971,"body":"from the organization to prioritize these"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2007.011,"endTime":2011.464,"body":"operational improvements over like, some"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2007.011,"endTime":2011.464,"body":"of the more strategic business objectives."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2012.508,"endTime":2016.588,"body":"my viewpoint always"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2012.508,"endTime":2016.588,"body":"is, Every crisis is an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2017.108,"endTime":2019.378,"body":"and every misstep is an opportunity."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2019.738,"endTime":2024.888,"body":"know, whether you come into like a burning"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2019.738,"endTime":2024.888,"body":"platform or whether you come into a very"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2024.888,"endTime":2029.668,"body":"mature, stable environment, it gives"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2024.888,"endTime":2029.668,"body":"you opportunity to do something a little"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2029.668,"endTime":2031.198,"body":"different and be a little creative."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2032.048,"endTime":2033.688,"body":"so here at Warner Bros."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2033.688,"endTime":2037.578,"body":"Discovery, just backtracking,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2033.688,"endTime":2037.578,"body":"I joined Discovery."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2038.039,"endTime":2040.239,"body":"ahead of the merger with Warner Brothers."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2040.583,"endTime":2044.453,"body":"and I knew that the merger was coming"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2040.583,"endTime":2044.453,"body":"around eight, eight months or so"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2044.513,"endTime":2048.65,"body":"after I would have joined, coming"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2044.513,"endTime":2048.65,"body":"in as a leader, I did have a little"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2048.65,"endTime":2055.35,"body":"bit of a runway to try out different"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2048.65,"endTime":2055.35,"body":"things and really, Build some level of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2055.36,"endTime":2062.153,"body":"stability and, best practices before,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2055.36,"endTime":2062.153,"body":"all the rules of the game changed."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2062.213,"endTime":2067.053,"body":"When the, when a merger of the size"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2062.213,"endTime":2067.053,"body":"happens, you're bringing in very,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2067.053,"endTime":2070.233,"body":"very different cultures, different"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2067.053,"endTime":2070.233,"body":"skills, different people together."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2070.763,"endTime":2075.613,"body":"And you're storming, forming, norming,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2070.763,"endTime":2075.613,"body":"executing all at the same time."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2075.623,"endTime":2082.45,"body":"So that was definitely one of the, biggest"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2075.623,"endTime":2082.45,"body":"things of like, how do you land coming"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2082.45,"endTime":2087.22,"body":"in new and how do you steer the ship"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2082.45,"endTime":2087.22,"body":"in the direction that you need to go?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2087.715,"endTime":2090.805,"body":"but as I said, every"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2087.715,"endTime":2090.805,"body":"crisis is an opportunity."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2090.805,"endTime":2096.155,"body":"So even in the first week of me joining,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2090.805,"endTime":2096.155,"body":"there was a crisis happening in terms"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2096.155,"endTime":2102.685,"body":"of, uh, how the, our commerce systems"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2096.155,"endTime":2102.685,"body":"for subscriptions and our back office"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2102.685,"endTime":2108.835,"body":"and financial systems and the financial"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2102.685,"endTime":2108.835,"body":"teams, how they were interacting and what"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2109.265,"endTime":2116.995,"body":"the level of Resilience and, maturity,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2109.265,"endTime":2116.995,"body":"the financial organization needed and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2116.995,"endTime":2121.695,"body":"was expecting because, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2116.995,"endTime":2121.695,"body":"run the books and there is no room"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2121.695,"endTime":2124.645,"body":"there for a very minimal room for error."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2125.005,"endTime":2130.245,"body":"and, That the commerce system, which was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2125.005,"endTime":2130.245,"body":"running more like an engineering team."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2130.285,"endTime":2133.925,"body":"And I'm not saying that the engineering"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2130.285,"endTime":2133.925,"body":"teams have more room for error, but you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2133.925,"endTime":2138.825,"body":"know, I come from Google where everything"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2133.925,"endTime":2138.825,"body":"is perpetual beta, so it's okay to say,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2138.825,"endTime":2142.015,"body":"you know what, like we're trying, we're"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2138.825,"endTime":2142.015,"body":"learning and iterating, we'll iterate."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2142.495,"endTime":2147.825,"body":"So, very different kind of criteria"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2142.495,"endTime":2147.825,"body":"and, uh, tolerance for failure."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2148.49,"endTime":2154.62,"body":"And I use those kinds of, disconnects"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2148.49,"endTime":2154.62,"body":"or, points where we had opportunity"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2154.62,"endTime":2159.53,"body":"to do better as a way to start"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2154.62,"endTime":2159.53,"body":"collecting marbles in a marble jar"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2159.55,"endTime":2166.14,"body":"of, uh, building credibility, building"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2159.55,"endTime":2166.14,"body":"small shifts in how we operate, in"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2166.17,"endTime":2168.27,"body":"what kind of metrics we focus on."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2168.83,"endTime":2170.92,"body":"and what is the impact it has on."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2171.055,"endTime":2175.045,"body":"Both on the business teams as well as"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2171.055,"endTime":2175.045,"body":"on the engineering teams themselves."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2175.462,"endTime":2181.862,"body":"so in like taking this specific example,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2175.462,"endTime":2181.862,"body":"when we were able to shift from very,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2181.862,"endTime":2187.632,"body":"very reactive, lots of disconnects,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2181.862,"endTime":2187.632,"body":"a lot of kind of missed expectations."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2188.172,"endTime":2191.692,"body":"on both sides, which causes"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2188.172,"endTime":2191.692,"body":"frustration and you shifted to,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2191.952,"endTime":2193.292,"body":"Hey, we are in this together."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2193.322,"endTime":2196.512,"body":"Let's together identify"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2193.322,"endTime":2196.512,"body":"what are the metrics?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2196.772,"endTime":2201.902,"body":"What are the quality bar that we want"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2196.772,"endTime":2201.902,"body":"to hit and how do we together get there?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2202.332,"endTime":2207.412,"body":"And as we started delivering those"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2202.332,"endTime":2207.412,"body":"things and all sides suddenly started"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2207.412,"endTime":2212.415,"body":"seeing those wins as our win, that was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2207.412,"endTime":2212.415,"body":"a big shift, and one big shift, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2212.415,"endTime":2214.315,"body":"So you take that marble"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2212.415,"endTime":2214.315,"body":"and you collect that."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2214.775,"endTime":2218.522,"body":"Similarly, within couple of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2214.775,"endTime":2218.522,"body":"months of me joining, there was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2218.572,"endTime":2220.452,"body":"a massive production outage."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2220.792,"endTime":2225.702,"body":"and as part of that outage management,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2220.792,"endTime":2225.702,"body":"there were things happening where,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2225.702,"endTime":2229.912,"body":"you know, production databases"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2225.702,"endTime":2229.912,"body":"were getting updated on the fly."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2229.912,"endTime":2230.931,"body":"And I was like, whoa."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2230.931,"endTime":2234.741,"body":"that was, again, an opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2230.931,"endTime":2234.741,"body":"say, okay, let's take a step back."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2234.751,"endTime":2238.581,"body":"If you were to get into a situation"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2234.751,"endTime":2238.581,"body":"like this again, what does it look like?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2238.581,"endTime":2242.591,"body":"And what are some kind of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2238.581,"endTime":2242.591,"body":"tooling, some instrumentation"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2242.591,"endTime":2243.731,"body":"we could have put in place?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2243.732,"endTime":2250.565,"body":"so Each of these had a very meaningful"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2243.732,"endTime":2250.565,"body":"business impact, and to raise visibility"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2250.925,"endTime":2254.895,"body":"to the business leaders, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2250.925,"endTime":2254.895,"body":"I started sending heads up emails."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2255.155,"endTime":2257.275,"body":"So initially, I would write them myself."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2257.605,"endTime":2262.265,"body":"But slowly, my goal was that it becomes a"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2257.605,"endTime":2262.265,"body":"template that you modeled that behavior."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2262.715,"endTime":2267.605,"body":"And every engineering team, as they"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2262.715,"endTime":2267.605,"body":"go through those outages, are sending"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2267.615,"endTime":2269.885,"body":"those proactively before you get asked."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2270.392,"endTime":2273.842,"body":"to all the leaders and stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2270.392,"endTime":2273.842,"body":"who are impacted by it."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2274.282,"endTime":2278.815,"body":"And that was a very, it felt kind"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2274.282,"endTime":2278.815,"body":"of like mundane, but it was a very"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2278.815,"endTime":2283.915,"body":"critical step in educating and starting"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2278.815,"endTime":2283.915,"body":"to develop shared empathy, regardless"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2283.915,"endTime":2286.535,"body":"of whether you're on the tech team"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2283.915,"endTime":2286.535,"body":"or the business team or the support"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2286.535,"endTime":2291.168,"body":"team on saying, okay, this is the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2286.535,"endTime":2291.168,"body":"impact on the business or on the user."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2291.618,"endTime":2298.673,"body":"And This is what this outage really meant,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2291.618,"endTime":2298.673,"body":"and these are the actions we took for"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2298.683,"endTime":2304.093,"body":"immediate resolution, but these are the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2298.683,"endTime":2304.093,"body":"actions we need to take so in the future,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2304.493,"endTime":2309.773,"body":"if a similar kind of incident were to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2304.493,"endTime":2309.773,"body":"happen, we are protected against it, and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2309.783,"endTime":2314.173,"body":"that then allowed us to have discussions,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2309.783,"endTime":2314.173,"body":"say, what is the tradeoff, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2314.173,"endTime":2318.233,"body":"Like, do we set aside some time"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2314.173,"endTime":2318.233,"body":"to Make those fixes happen or"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2318.233,"endTime":2321.053,"body":"do we just keep running ahead"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2318.233,"endTime":2321.053,"body":"with new feature development?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2321.723,"endTime":2326.533,"body":"So all these kind of it doesn't happen"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2321.723,"endTime":2326.533,"body":"overnight and even now right like again"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2326.573,"endTime":2329.393,"body":"And then the merger came and then there"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2326.573,"endTime":2329.393,"body":"was a different train and different"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2329.393,"endTime":2333.753,"body":"sort of things had to optimize for"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2329.393,"endTime":2333.753,"body":"so you're constantly Re evaluating,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2333.763,"endTime":2338.1,"body":"recalibrating, and then when you're"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2333.763,"endTime":2338.1,"body":"running an organization that's like"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2338.1,"endTime":2343.866,"body":"1000, 2000 people large, you're going"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2338.1,"endTime":2343.866,"body":"to have pockets of the organization,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2343.876,"endTime":2347.606,"body":"which are at a very different"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2343.876,"endTime":2347.606,"body":"maturity level than other pockets."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2347.723,"endTime":2349.273,"body":"so these things are kind of happening."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2349.273,"endTime":2351.663,"body":"It's like a distributed system, you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2349.273,"endTime":2351.663,"body":"know, it's happening in different,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2351.663,"endTime":2352.883,"body":"different nodes and pockets."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2353.709,"endTime":2357.106,"body":"and I think this story"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2353.709,"endTime":2357.106,"body":"of, how you know, the company saw this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2357.206,"endTime":2361.456,"body":"impending change coming, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2357.206,"endTime":2361.456,"body":"merger of two fairly large companies."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2361.826,"endTime":2365.716,"body":"and in this story of like a company"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2361.826,"endTime":2365.716,"body":"wanting to focus on operational"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2365.716,"endTime":2368.926,"body":"excellence before that is I think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2365.716,"endTime":2368.926,"body":"pretty common because they view"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2368.926,"endTime":2370.676,"body":"it as a way to set the standard."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2370.696,"endTime":2374.946,"body":"Before they introduce some sort of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2370.696,"endTime":2374.946,"body":"like large scale disruption into the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2374.946,"endTime":2378.736,"body":"company, you know, and it happens before"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2374.946,"endTime":2378.736,"body":"a company's scale or before they merge"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2378.736,"endTime":2381.743,"body":"or, you know, I've seen it when companies"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2378.736,"endTime":2381.743,"body":"are like looking to hire large teams"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2381.753,"endTime":2386.703,"body":"offshore, for example, they, they want"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2381.753,"endTime":2386.703,"body":"to normalize consistent behaviors before"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2386.703,"endTime":2390.513,"body":"they start bringing in large numbers"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2386.703,"endTime":2390.513,"body":"of, of new developers into the picture."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2391.1,"endTime":2396.027,"body":"so this sort of naturally leads, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2391.1,"endTime":2396.027,"body":"into one of the other questions that I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2396.027,"endTime":2401.497,"body":"have about, addressing like resistance"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2396.027,"endTime":2401.497,"body":"or skepticism to metrics like these."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2401.507,"endTime":2405.748,"body":"So, we don't want developers to feel"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2401.507,"endTime":2405.748,"body":"like their, their job is just to churn"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2405.748,"endTime":2407.228,"body":"out widgets or something like that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2407.228,"endTime":2410.058,"body":"And that really isn't even"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2407.228,"endTime":2410.058,"body":"comparable to what software"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2410.058,"endTime":2411.668,"body":"development actually is at its core."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2412.128,"endTime":2414.978,"body":"what sort of challenges did you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2412.128,"endTime":2414.978,"body":"face when you were bringing these"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2414.978,"endTime":2418.908,"body":"metrics on board and how did you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2414.978,"endTime":2418.908,"body":"address like that skepticism and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2418.908,"endTime":2420.548,"body":"resistance that you encountered?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2421.568,"endTime":2424.668,"body":"Yeah, and that's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2421.568,"endTime":2424.668,"body":"such a, Insightful question because"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2424.668,"endTime":2428.618,"body":"you're going, there was definitely"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2424.668,"endTime":2428.618,"body":"a lot of skepticism and resistance,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2429.588,"endTime":2434.728,"body":"not so much because people didn't"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2429.588,"endTime":2434.728,"body":"believe in the same shared end goal."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2435.118,"endTime":2437.348,"body":"I think it was more about"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2435.118,"endTime":2437.348,"body":"how do you get there?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2437.983,"endTime":2440.773,"body":"and what is the approach"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2437.983,"endTime":2440.773,"body":"to take to get there?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2441.023,"endTime":2447.103,"body":"and as I said, initially, because the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2441.023,"endTime":2447.103,"body":"metrics were a bit all over the place,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2448.083,"endTime":2453.533,"body":"even that self awareness that there's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2448.083,"endTime":2453.533,"body":"a problem here that we need to fix."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2454.053,"endTime":2455.263,"body":"Was not quite there."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2455.749,"endTime":2457.849,"body":"and it's not unique to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2455.749,"endTime":2457.849,"body":"Warner Brother Discovery."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2457.849,"endTime":2461.239,"body":"I think every company, every"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2457.849,"endTime":2461.239,"body":"team goes through this."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2461.419,"endTime":2467.389,"body":"I'll tell you when I was in YouTube,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2461.419,"endTime":2467.389,"body":"I helped kind of grow our YouTube paid"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2467.389,"endTime":2472.629,"body":"subscriptions and, uh, and YouTube live"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2467.389,"endTime":2472.629,"body":"streaming where we, I launched the first"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2472.629,"endTime":2478.933,"body":"pay-per-view, sports in YouTube live back"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2472.629,"endTime":2478.933,"body":"in the day, like, you know, in, uh, 2011."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2479.053,"endTime":2484.503,"body":"so it was like very early stages,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2479.053,"endTime":2484.503,"body":"and I still remember even for all"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2484.503,"endTime":2490.053,"body":"the customer delight, customer"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2484.503,"endTime":2490.053,"body":"focus and the SRE maturity that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2490.053,"endTime":2492.033,"body":"already Google had at that time."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2492.758,"endTime":2498.318,"body":"Paid subscriptions was a new concept"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2492.758,"endTime":2498.318,"body":"in the context of YouTube, which was,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2498.668,"endTime":2500.718,"body":"until then, everything ad supported."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2501.248,"endTime":2508.128,"body":"And the number of users who go"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2501.248,"endTime":2508.128,"body":"and watch a paid live stream is"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2508.128,"endTime":2510.488,"body":"significantly lower than before."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2510.908,"endTime":2513.728,"body":"The billions of users were"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2510.908,"endTime":2513.728,"body":"coming and watching YouTube"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2513.728,"endTime":2515.038,"body":"and tech videos at that time."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2515.688,"endTime":2521.828,"body":"So a lot of our monitoring, a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2515.688,"endTime":2521.828,"body":"alerts would not even trigger when there"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2521.828,"endTime":2526.118,"body":"was a problem with the paid live stream,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2521.828,"endTime":2526.118,"body":"which was a learning for us, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2526.526,"endTime":2532.736,"body":"And you kind of had to shift the culture"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2526.526,"endTime":2532.736,"body":"in a culture that was already so awesome"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2532.736,"endTime":2536.386,"body":"and focused on engineering resilience."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2536.846,"endTime":2544.706,"body":"I still had to kind of make the case of,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2536.846,"endTime":2544.706,"body":"hey, yes, and for paid Our thresholds need"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2544.706,"endTime":2547.096,"body":"to be changed very, very significantly."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2547.146,"endTime":2553.366,"body":"Otherwise, it'll never be seen as"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2547.146,"endTime":2553.366,"body":"a SEV1 issue to actually resolve in"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2553.366,"endTime":2554.786,"body":"the scale that we're dealing with."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2555.376,"endTime":2558.046,"body":"And that was a big culture"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2555.376,"endTime":2558.046,"body":"shift you had to bring about."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2558.616,"endTime":2564.161,"body":"And so similarly at Warner Brother"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2558.616,"endTime":2564.161,"body":"Discovery, A lot of the initial"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2564.161,"endTime":2570.071,"body":"skepticism and friction I had was"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2564.161,"endTime":2570.071,"body":"surprisingly from the engineering teams"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2570.111,"endTime":2576.051,"body":"themselves, like from my own leadership"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2570.111,"endTime":2576.051,"body":"bench, where it was unclear to them"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2576.291,"endTime":2580.471,"body":"what needed to change and why, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2580.481,"endTime":2584.871,"body":"And that, and building that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2580.481,"endTime":2584.871,"body":"why and what, And also there"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2584.871,"endTime":2587.001,"body":"was a very strong hero culture."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2587.071,"endTime":2592.864,"body":"So there was this self value"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2587.071,"endTime":2592.864,"body":"that everyone felt in being able"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2592.864,"endTime":2594.994,"body":"to jump in and solve problems."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2595.004,"endTime":2597.594,"body":"So firefighting was actually rewarded."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2598.043,"endTime":2603.123,"body":"Or like a launch happens, the entire"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2598.043,"endTime":2603.123,"body":"company gets on like this, it's like"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2603.123,"endTime":2607.173,"body":"launching a rocket ship, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2603.123,"endTime":2607.173,"body":"all these calls, these Zoom meetings."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2607.723,"endTime":2613.938,"body":"And for me coming in, with some"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2607.723,"endTime":2613.938,"body":"distance, it was like, This is awesome."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2613.938,"endTime":2615.238,"body":"It's great team building."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2615.478,"endTime":2620.641,"body":"And can we do team building somewhere"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2615.478,"endTime":2620.641,"body":"else and make these kind of like, boring?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2620.761,"endTime":2622.641,"body":"Launches should be boring in my mind."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2622.661,"endTime":2623.491,"body":"They should just happen."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2623.581,"endTime":2627.701,"body":"I should still be able to go on my"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2623.581,"endTime":2627.701,"body":"weekend bike rides and skiing and not"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2627.701,"endTime":2629.914,"body":"be like, fretting about them you know,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2630.664,"endTime":2635.044,"body":"So that was the shift that I"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2630.664,"endTime":2635.044,"body":"had to break about, and that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2635.104,"endTime":2637.494,"body":"was the underlying resistance."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2637.494,"endTime":2641.844,"body":"It was less the mechanics, the tooling,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2637.494,"endTime":2641.844,"body":"the metrics, all of those you can easily"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2641.844,"endTime":2647.299,"body":"solve this adaptive challenge, as I call"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2641.844,"endTime":2647.299,"body":"it, and the culture and the mindset shift."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2647.299,"endTime":2649.254,"body":"Mindset shift is what"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2647.299,"endTime":2649.254,"body":"I had to work through."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2650.279,"endTime":2652.489,"body":"Yeah, it's an"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2650.279,"endTime":2652.489,"body":"interesting take on, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2652.859,"endTime":2656.829,"body":"like a company that's, that's always"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2652.859,"endTime":2656.829,"body":"built for scale suddenly has to build a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2656.829,"endTime":2662.749,"body":"product that operates at a fraction of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2656.829,"endTime":2662.749,"body":"that And like, yeah, the, the unexpected"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2662.749,"endTime":2665.979,"body":"ways that like, you know, you would"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2662.749,"endTime":2665.979,"body":"have to adapt as an organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2665.989,"endTime":2667.819,"body":"Like that's pretty fascinating."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2668.504,"endTime":2671.594,"body":"and I just mentioned"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2668.504,"endTime":2671.594,"body":"that only because I think every team,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2671.594,"endTime":2674.344,"body":"every organization has their own."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2675.099,"endTime":2676.979,"body":"Change management, they need to do"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2677.489,"endTime":2677.619,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2677.929,"endTime":2679.169,"body":"as you evolve."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2680.155,"endTime":2680.375,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2680.375,"endTime":2683.025,"body":"And if you're always launching products,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2680.375,"endTime":2683.025,"body":"like it's going to be the largest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2683.025,"endTime":2686.415,"body":"thing that, you know, a hundred million"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2683.025,"endTime":2686.415,"body":"users, like if that's how you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2686.435,"endTime":2688.325,"body":"normalized launching things, then yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2688.325,"endTime":2691.535,"body":"Launching small things, you're probably"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2688.325,"endTime":2691.535,"body":"going to want to treat it the same way."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2691.535,"endTime":2691.855,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2692.065,"endTime":2693.095,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2693.551,"endTime":2697.2,"body":"what are some of the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2693.551,"endTime":2697.2,"body":"most like unexpected like insights or,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2697.28,"endTime":2699.29,"body":"results that you've encountered from this?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2699.29,"endTime":2702.1,"body":"particularly was there anything"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2699.29,"endTime":2702.1,"body":"that was like counterintuitive"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2702.11,"endTime":2703.27,"body":"that like challenged?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2703.41,"endTime":2705.33,"body":"Some assumptions you had along the way."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2706.328,"endTime":2709.128,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2706.328,"endTime":2709.128,"body":"counterintuitive part came in."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2709.677,"endTime":2711.277,"body":"Which metric to focus on?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2711.317,"endTime":2716.193,"body":"And I suspect a lot of organizations"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2711.317,"endTime":2716.193,"body":"have that trouble too, because the DORA"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2716.193,"endTime":2719.813,"body":"framework and all these metrics are"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2716.193,"endTime":2719.813,"body":"nice to talk about on paper, but in"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2719.813,"endTime":2725.063,"body":"reality, where do you put your energy"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2719.813,"endTime":2725.063,"body":"behind and which one should you chase?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2725.513,"endTime":2729.383,"body":"initially, there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2725.513,"endTime":2729.383,"body":"focus on mean time to resolution."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2729.94,"endTime":2733.88,"body":"And there was already a culture"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2729.94,"endTime":2733.88,"body":"of doing postmortems, they call it"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2733.92,"endTime":2736.18,"body":"COEs, I think Celebration of Errors."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2736.907,"endTime":2740.097,"body":"both of those on paper were"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2736.907,"endTime":2740.097,"body":"the right things to do."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2740.957,"endTime":2746.367,"body":"However, when you're so focused on"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2740.957,"endTime":2746.367,"body":"mean time to resolution, when an"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2746.377,"endTime":2750.807,"body":"outage happened, It's great, you're"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2746.377,"endTime":2750.807,"body":"trying as quickly as possible to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2750.807,"endTime":2756.08,"body":"resolve it, but you're not thinking"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2750.807,"endTime":2756.08,"body":"how sustainable is this change, or"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2756.09,"endTime":2760.52,"body":"what are things that I should do"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2756.09,"endTime":2760.52,"body":"after the fact to ensure that I'm"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2760.52,"endTime":2762.8,"body":"protected and safeguarded against this."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2763.305,"endTime":2764.015,"body":"in the future."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2764.855,"endTime":2769.162,"body":"And you might end up putting because"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2764.855,"endTime":2769.162,"body":"you're trying so hard to fix it so"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2769.162,"endTime":2774.552,"body":"quickly that has a cascading impact"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2769.162,"endTime":2774.552,"body":"and some other outage gets introduced."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2774.922,"endTime":2779.342,"body":"Or, you've introduced so much tech"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2774.922,"endTime":2779.342,"body":"debt in that bandaid that you put"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2779.342,"endTime":2781.352,"body":"in that backpedaling out of it."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2781.61,"endTime":2783.69,"body":"Later on, it's going to be really hard."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2784.05,"endTime":2788.54,"body":"So there's a lot of dimensions you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2784.05,"endTime":2788.54,"body":"need to think through while you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2788.75,"endTime":2793.29,"body":"try and resolve that outage in that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2788.75,"endTime":2793.29,"body":"high pressure environment quickly."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2793.78,"endTime":2796.72,"body":"so that was one counterintuitive"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2793.78,"endTime":2796.72,"body":"thing to call out."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2796.77,"endTime":2802.945,"body":"and the way I think as an organization,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2796.77,"endTime":2802.945,"body":"we started seeing it was, By improving"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2802.945,"endTime":2804.955,"body":"and hardening that COE process."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2805.385,"endTime":2808.205,"body":"I used to say it's a celebration"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2805.385,"endTime":2808.205,"body":"of error when it's your"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2808.215,"endTime":2809.685,"body":"first time making the error."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2810.155,"endTime":2814.495,"body":"Maybe you can celebrate it again when it's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2810.155,"endTime":2814.495,"body":"a second time a similar error happens."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2814.945,"endTime":2817.625,"body":"But if it keeps happening like"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2814.945,"endTime":2817.625,"body":"three, four times, you can't"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2817.635,"endTime":2819.155,"body":"be celebrating it anymore."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2819.445,"endTime":2824.245,"body":"point, you need to ask like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2819.445,"endTime":2824.245,"body":"like, why, why is it happening again?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2824.615,"endTime":2825.015,"body":"Uh."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2825.15,"endTime":2826.49,"body":"about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2825.15,"endTime":2826.49,"body":"gaming the metrics."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2826.49,"endTime":2829.26,"body":"I mean, let's, see how many"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2826.49,"endTime":2829.26,"body":"errors we can celebrate."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2830.675,"endTime":2833.835,"body":"And again, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2830.675,"endTime":2833.835,"body":"being kind of, you know, flippant here."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2833.835,"endTime":2838.243,"body":"And, and nobody was like"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2833.835,"endTime":2838.243,"body":"maliciously trying to do this."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2838.273,"endTime":2842.913,"body":"It's just as an organization, when"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2838.273,"endTime":2842.913,"body":"you're looking at those numbers and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2842.913,"endTime":2845.643,"body":"you're looking at those dashboards"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2842.913,"endTime":2845.643,"body":"and everything, it looks like it's"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2845.643,"endTime":2849.163,"body":"all moving in the right direction,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2845.643,"endTime":2849.163,"body":"but you're not getting the impact"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2849.163,"endTime":2851.103,"body":"or the intended results out of it."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2851.597,"endTime":2858.722,"body":"and I think that is an insight,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2851.597,"endTime":2858.722,"body":"which is really Debug the problem the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2858.912,"endTime":2864.602,"body":"current organization or the current"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2858.912,"endTime":2864.602,"body":"team is having, be mindful of where"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2864.602,"endTime":2869.532,"body":"do you want to get to, and make"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2864.602,"endTime":2869.532,"body":"sure these metrics, these processes"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2869.532,"endTime":2871.412,"body":"are serving you well to get there."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2871.962,"endTime":2876.952,"body":"So one of the things we introduced,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2871.962,"endTime":2876.952,"body":"for instance, was, In those COEs, you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2876.952,"endTime":2881.952,"body":"mentioned you provide action items, which"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2876.952,"endTime":2881.952,"body":"I introduced, I mean, it was a pretty"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2881.952,"endTime":2885.772,"body":"arbitrary rule, but I just said, hey,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2881.952,"endTime":2885.772,"body":"you know, just from experience, how about"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2885.942,"endTime":2891.602,"body":"we introduce a 90 5 5 rule, and we still"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2885.942,"endTime":2891.602,"body":"use it three years now, later, which"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2891.602,"endTime":2895.382,"body":"is 90 percent of the action items that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2891.602,"endTime":2895.382,"body":"come out, you need to get them resolved."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2895.947,"endTime":2901.807,"body":"Within the next sprint and 5 percent"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2895.947,"endTime":2901.807,"body":"can take maybe two sprints like the next"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2901.807,"endTime":2906.767,"body":"month and 5 percent are going to be like"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2901.807,"endTime":2906.767,"body":"very fundamental shifts and changes that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2906.777,"endTime":2912.579,"body":"probably need to get prioritized in your"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2906.777,"endTime":2912.579,"body":"following quarterly planning and might"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2912.579,"endTime":2916.919,"body":"end up taking multiple quarters, multiple"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2912.579,"endTime":2916.919,"body":"months to resolve, but that's okay."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2917.524,"endTime":2920.144,"body":"Because you're changing the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2917.524,"endTime":2920.144,"body":"underlying architecture or the"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2920.144,"endTime":2921.634,"body":"design pattern or something."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2922.142,"endTime":2926.782,"body":"in that kind of method, you've now"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2922.142,"endTime":2926.782,"body":"suddenly, hopefully the number of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2926.822,"endTime":2932.252,"body":"times the same kind of error or similar"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2926.822,"endTime":2932.252,"body":"error repeats itself, becomes lower and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2932.272,"endTime":2935.747,"body":"lower because 90 percent of what you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2932.272,"endTime":2935.747,"body":"think you should have resolved is gone."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2936.027,"endTime":2939.457,"body":"Or better actions you should"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2936.027,"endTime":2939.457,"body":"have put in place, you've"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2939.497,"endTime":2941.037,"body":"taken care of it very quickly."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2942.372,"endTime":2944.312,"body":"I think one"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2942.372,"endTime":2944.312,"body":"of the most frequent questions we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2944.312,"endTime":2948.582,"body":"hear from people who, who first"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2944.312,"endTime":2948.582,"body":"get their Dora metrics is now what?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2948.607,"endTime":2952.117,"body":"And, and you've, you hit the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2948.607,"endTime":2952.117,"body":"nail on the head that it's,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2952.224,"endTime":2953.564,"body":"every organization is unique."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2953.574,"endTime":2959.864,"body":"Every team, every project, every repo even"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2953.574,"endTime":2959.864,"body":"has different processes, different people"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2959.864,"endTime":2961.884,"body":"that, that work in different methods."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2962.224,"endTime":2966.304,"body":"You know, some are distributed across the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2962.224,"endTime":2966.304,"body":"globe, some are localized within one area."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2966.734,"endTime":2970.304,"body":"And that really is like, I think the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2966.734,"endTime":2970.304,"body":"core of the challenge to this is,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2970.399,"endTime":2973.695,"body":"like, the challenge is connecting"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2970.399,"endTime":2973.695,"body":"like these abstract, These concrete"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":2973.705,"endTime":2976.165,"body":"metrics to your needs, you know, as an"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2976.165,"endTime":2976.416,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2977.029,"endTime":2977.199,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2977.199,"endTime":2981.359,"body":"The other thing I just thought of it"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2977.199,"endTime":2981.359,"body":"as you were explaining this is, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2981.359,"endTime":2984.829,"body":"going back to, for instance, that first"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2981.359,"endTime":2984.829,"body":"example I gave about the financial"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2984.829,"endTime":2986.489,"body":"systems of commerce systems, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2986.929,"endTime":2992.649,"body":"Many of our systems didn't have"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2986.929,"endTime":2992.649,"body":"automated instrumentation and alerting,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2992.649,"endTime":2995.509,"body":"so you can auto detect problems."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2996.02,"endTime":2997.93,"body":"we recognize that and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2996.02,"endTime":2997.93,"body":"we said we need alerts."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":2998.945,"endTime":3001.565,"body":"Then we flooded the system with alerts."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3001.625,"endTime":3006.551,"body":"So we went from like very"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3001.625,"endTime":3006.551,"body":"low alerts to, comprehensive,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3006.631,"endTime":3008.241,"body":"but lots of false positives."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3008.301,"endTime":3010.451,"body":"So that also is a bad thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3010.801,"endTime":3014.751,"body":"Uh, because you're just like paging"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3010.801,"endTime":3014.751,"body":"people and interrupting people just"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3014.751,"endTime":3019.041,"body":"randomly because your threshold and"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3014.751,"endTime":3019.041,"body":"your alert tuning is not in place."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3019.619,"endTime":3022.349,"body":"that was another kind of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3019.619,"endTime":3022.349,"body":"those counterintuitive things."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3022.359,"endTime":3025.199,"body":"It's not a checkmark"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3022.359,"endTime":3025.199,"body":"that, yes, I have alerts."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3025.549,"endTime":3030.989,"body":"You really want to fine tune it so you"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3025.549,"endTime":3030.989,"body":"have the right alerts and the right"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3031.029,"endTime":3038.454,"body":"thresholds in place and the right metric"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3031.029,"endTime":3038.454,"body":"monitoring to help you proactively detect"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3038.784,"endTime":3042.014,"body":"a real outage or an impending outage."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3042.364,"endTime":3045.054,"body":"And you don't want to cry wolf too often."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3045.913,"endTime":3046.173,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3046.493,"endTime":3046.993,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3047.309,"endTime":3050.139,"body":"Samia, is there, is there anything else"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3047.309,"endTime":3050.139,"body":"that you think we've missed or that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3050.139,"endTime":3052.339,"body":"you want to share with our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3050.139,"endTime":3052.339,"body":"before we let you off the hook?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3053.248,"endTime":3055.098,"body":"I think the one"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3053.248,"endTime":3055.098,"body":"thing I would leave the audience"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3055.158,"endTime":3062.418,"body":"with is think of also rituals that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3055.158,"endTime":3062.418,"body":"make sense for your organization."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3062.488,"endTime":3067.358,"body":"and probably it's not, uh, The same ritual"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3062.488,"endTime":3067.358,"body":"across your entire, based on the size of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3067.358,"endTime":3068.938,"body":"your company and the size of the teams."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3069.608,"endTime":3073.958,"body":"you know, some of the things that I had"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3069.608,"endTime":3073.958,"body":"brought in here from prior companies"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3074.028,"endTime":3078.898,"body":"was like bug bashes on a regular"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3074.028,"endTime":3078.898,"body":"basis for the entire company to get a"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3078.898,"endTime":3081.198,"body":"sense of the stability of the product."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3081.758,"endTime":3085.568,"body":"We did Fix It Weeks, which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3081.758,"endTime":3085.568,"body":"if you're a very mature org, Fix"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3085.568,"endTime":3088.638,"body":"It Weeks probably is like a crutch."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3088.718,"endTime":3093.708,"body":"You shouldn't use it as much, but if"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3088.718,"endTime":3093.708,"body":"you're an org where you have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3093.758,"endTime":3098.158,"body":"tech debt and catching up to do, something"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3093.758,"endTime":3098.158,"body":"like a Fix It Week actually helps you."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3098.501,"endTime":3100.251,"body":"I call it spring cleaning."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3100.291,"endTime":3101.851,"body":"It's like regular cleaning."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3101.891,"endTime":3105.411,"body":"Doesn't mean you're not cleaning all"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3101.891,"endTime":3105.411,"body":"the time, but you have these moments in"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3105.441,"endTime":3107.026,"body":"time, every quarter, every two weeks."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3107.176,"endTime":3110.396,"body":"Two quarters to really"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3107.176,"endTime":3110.396,"body":"focus on, catching up."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3110.716,"endTime":3114.556,"body":"there are things that you can do"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3110.716,"endTime":3114.556,"body":"and think about what those rituals"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3114.556,"endTime":3116.826,"body":"are for your team and your org."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3117.531,"endTime":3119.831,"body":"we like to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3117.531,"endTime":3119.831,"body":"say data driven habits as well,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3119.861,"endTime":3123.311,"body":"like the more you can the better"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3119.861,"endTime":3123.311,"body":"you'll be as an organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3123.928,"endTime":3125.868,"body":"thank you so much for joining me today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3125.928,"endTime":3128.088,"body":"is there any place that our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3125.928,"endTime":3128.088,"body":"audience should go if they want"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3128.088,"endTime":3129.358,"body":"to follow more of your work?"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3130.791,"endTime":3133.851,"body":"LinkedIn X,"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3130.791,"endTime":3133.851,"body":"I'm not really good at broadcasting"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3133.881,"endTime":3136.781,"body":"too much on those and maybe that"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3133.881,"endTime":3136.781,"body":"is something I should improve."},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3137.111,"endTime":3140.311,"body":"but yeah, you can always find"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3137.111,"endTime":3140.311,"body":"me on LinkedIn, as a way to"},{"speaker":"Sowmya Subramanian","startTime":3140.311,"endTime":3141.491,"body":"reach out to me if you want."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3142.001,"endTime":3142.811,"body":"Yeah, wonderful."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3142.962,"endTime":3144.912,"body":"So that's a wrap on today's episode."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3145.062,"endTime":3149.052,"body":"Thanks so much for joining us for the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3145.062,"endTime":3149.052,"body":"start of season five of Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3149.362,"endTime":3152.602,"body":"We've got really big things planned"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3149.362,"endTime":3152.602,"body":"for this season and we want to help"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3152.602,"endTime":3155.032,"body":"as many engineering leaders as we can."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3155.282,"endTime":3156.162,"body":"So that's why."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3156.622,"endTime":3162.483,"body":"Our goal has been to help you help us"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3156.622,"endTime":3162.483,"body":"support this show by giving us a rating"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3162.513,"endTime":3167.163,"body":"on your podcast app of choice, or, you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3162.513,"endTime":3167.163,"body":"know, wherever you consume your media."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3167.413,"endTime":3169.056,"body":"it really does help us get the word out."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3169.188,"endTime":3172.028,"body":"and if you want more Dev Interrupted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3169.188,"endTime":3172.028,"body":"delivered to your inbox, be sure to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3172.028,"endTime":3173.838,"body":"subscribe to our Substack newsletter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3174.035,"endTime":3177.308,"body":"where we share articles from the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3174.035,"endTime":3177.308,"body":"hosts of this podcast, to keep"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3177.308,"endTime":3180.248,"body":"our audience up to date with the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3177.308,"endTime":3180.248,"body":"latest news and stories in tech,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3180.318,"endTime":3182.568,"body":"software, and engineering leadership."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3183.038,"endTime":3183.788,"body":"Thanks everyone."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":3183.868,"endTime":3184.638,"body":"I'll see you next week."}]}