{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":0.2,"endTime":4.15,"body":"I wasn't going to answer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":0.2,"endTime":4.15,"body":"any questions on this pod, BLP, but"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":4.15,"endTime":5.94,"body":"I'm going to do it cause I love you."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":6.359,"endTime":7.799,"body":"And here's what I would say."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":7.809,"endTime":9.899,"body":"First of all, go read the report, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":9.899,"endTime":14.1,"body":"It's there for you should know what the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":9.899,"endTime":14.1,"body":"standards are, what the benchmarks are."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":14.479,"endTime":19.309,"body":"But I think that 2025 is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":14.479,"endTime":19.309,"body":"the year of productivity for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":19.309,"endTime":20.849,"body":"engineering organizations."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":21.259,"endTime":23.03,"body":"So if you're an engineering leader."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":23.28,"endTime":27.1,"body":"Understand the report, know where"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":23.28,"endTime":27.1,"body":"you stand against the report."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":27.679,"endTime":30.54,"body":"And then for any of the metrics"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":27.679,"endTime":30.54,"body":"that you want to get better"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":30.54,"endTime":33.319,"body":"at, use automation, use AI."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":33.33,"endTime":35.9,"body":"You gotta be into this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":33.33,"endTime":35.9,"body":"stuff now to improve."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":44.288,"endTime":46.508,"body":"Welcome,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":44.288,"endTime":46.508,"body":"everyone, to Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":46.998,"endTime":51.068,"body":"I'm your host, Ben Lloyd Pearson,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":46.998,"endTime":51.068,"body":"and I'm joined today by your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":51.068,"endTime":52.408,"body":"other host, Andrew Ziegler."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":52.488,"endTime":53.933,"body":"Andrew, How's it going?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":53.983,"endTime":54.993,"body":"Like, I just want to check in."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":55.003,"endTime":56.913,"body":"Like, how are your New"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":55.003,"endTime":56.913,"body":"Year's resolutions going?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":56.913,"endTime":57.963,"body":"Are you still running every day?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":58.577,"endTime":62.007,"body":"Oh yes, yes, you know, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":58.577,"endTime":62.007,"body":"I went out last night, but I still woke"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":62.007,"endTime":66.137,"body":"up this morning, got my run in, uh, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":62.007,"endTime":66.137,"body":"it's still going pretty strong for me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":66.137,"endTime":66.867,"body":"What about you, Ben?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":66.877,"endTime":68.127,"body":"How's, how are your resolutions?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":68.127,"endTime":68.997,"body":"What were they again?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":69.047,"endTime":70.077,"body":"What were yours?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":70.377,"endTime":73.053,"body":"yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":70.377,"endTime":73.053,"body":"I don't really do resolutions except"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":73.073,"endTime":77.163,"body":"I did resolve myself to not get"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":73.073,"endTime":77.163,"body":"sick too much this year, and that's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":77.163,"endTime":78.793,"body":"already, like, gone out the window."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":78.803,"endTime":82.033,"body":"So, like, unfortunately with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":78.803,"endTime":82.033,"body":"all the sickness going around,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":82.043,"endTime":83.423,"body":"it's, like, unavoidable"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":83.777,"endTime":86.857,"body":"Oh yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":83.777,"endTime":86.857,"body":"always sick this time of year."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":86.897,"endTime":90.367,"body":"It's pretty much unavoidable, so you set"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":86.897,"endTime":90.367,"body":"yourself up for failure with that one."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":90.473,"endTime":91.923,"body":"yeah, yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":93.088,"endTime":96.858,"body":"So, you know, before we get into our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":93.088,"endTime":96.858,"body":"interview, uh, today, I just want to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":96.878,"endTime":100.308,"body":"talk a little bit about some stuff that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":96.878,"endTime":100.308,"body":"we're seeing happen in the space and,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":100.538,"endTime":104.508,"body":"how that relates to some of the stuff"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":100.538,"endTime":104.508,"body":"that we cover here on Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":104.508,"endTime":106.278,"body":"So, Andrew, what's on your mind right now?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":106.278,"endTime":107.528,"body":"What stories have caught your attention?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":108.057,"endTime":110.997,"body":"Yeah, something that has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":108.057,"endTime":110.997,"body":"been top of mind for me, especially in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":110.997,"endTime":116.247,"body":"last week, is this new memo from Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":110.997,"endTime":116.247,"body":"about its internal changes, where it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":116.247,"endTime":122.037,"body":"combining its dev, div, and AI platform"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":116.247,"endTime":122.037,"body":"teams internally, and they're taking the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":122.037,"endTime":127.097,"body":"entire developer division and making it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":122.037,"endTime":127.097,"body":"focused on AI, and it's signaling a huge"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":127.097,"endTime":131.427,"body":"change within Microsoft, and I think this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":127.097,"endTime":131.427,"body":"is something that really resonates with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":131.747,"endTime":136.637,"body":"large orgs and small ones too, all across"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":131.747,"endTime":136.637,"body":"software engineering right now, that We"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":136.808,"endTime":140.717,"body":"recognize there's a lot of change that has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":136.808,"endTime":140.717,"body":"to happen, and it has to happen internally"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":140.717,"endTime":142.697,"body":"with the tools that developers are using."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":143.127,"endTime":148.507,"body":"so the most standout quote that was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":143.127,"endTime":148.507,"body":"for me from the memo on Monday, was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":148.507,"endTime":152.707,"body":"about they needed to compress 30"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":148.507,"endTime":152.707,"body":"years of change into three years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":152.717,"endTime":156.907,"body":"So they're trying to move lightning fast"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":152.717,"endTime":156.907,"body":"and make a whole lot of innovation happen"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":156.927,"endTime":158.597,"body":"in a whole lot of small amount of time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":158.597,"endTime":162.787,"body":"So, uh, the idea of compressing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":158.597,"endTime":162.787,"body":"that is quite fascinating to me."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":163.428,"endTime":166.988,"body":"That's, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":163.428,"endTime":166.988,"body":"mean, that is a very stark claim."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":166.998,"endTime":170.698,"body":"You know, of course, every leader"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":166.998,"endTime":170.698,"body":"is going to claim wild things when"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":170.698,"endTime":173.108,"body":"they take over a new organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":173.118,"endTime":177.318,"body":"But, you know, for me, it really, you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":173.118,"endTime":177.318,"body":"know, resonates with the idea that, AI"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":177.318,"endTime":182.593,"body":"is not going to be this tool that, uh,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":177.318,"endTime":182.593,"body":"Replaces you like if your job was to weave"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":182.593,"endTime":187.283,"body":"together threads then like the the loom"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":182.593,"endTime":187.283,"body":"will replace you But the vast majority"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":187.283,"endTime":191.703,"body":"of people can provide far more value than"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":187.283,"endTime":191.703,"body":"that So I feel like really what we should"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":191.703,"endTime":194.023,"body":"all be focused on is how could we be?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":194.668,"endTime":199.808,"body":"More productive, more efficient, do better"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":194.668,"endTime":199.808,"body":"things with AI rather than like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":199.808,"endTime":203.808,"body":"we've got all these LinkedIn influencers"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":199.808,"endTime":203.808,"body":"out there quoting improperly quoting"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":203.808,"endTime":207.128,"body":"people like Mark Zuckerberg, which I said"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":203.808,"endTime":207.128,"body":"I wasn't going to talk about today, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":207.247,"endTime":208.477,"body":"Ben, you got to let it go."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":208.982,"endTime":210.192,"body":"You gotta let it go, Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":210.498,"endTime":213.028,"body":"Yeah, so you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":210.498,"endTime":213.028,"body":"got all these influencers saying that,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":213.038,"endTime":216.038,"body":"you know, AI is going to take your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":213.038,"endTime":216.038,"body":"job and either they're trying to sell"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":216.038,"endTime":220.118,"body":"you something or they're probably"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":216.038,"endTime":220.118,"body":"misinterpreting the words that of somebody"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":220.118,"endTime":221.608,"body":"that's more important than they are."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":221.658,"endTime":226.928,"body":"So, you know, I really like this story"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":221.658,"endTime":226.928,"body":"because I think it is probably more"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":226.938,"endTime":231.908,"body":"emblematic of what the future of software"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":226.938,"endTime":231.908,"body":"engineering is going to look like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":232.076,"endTime":234.796,"body":"I totally agree, and I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":232.076,"endTime":234.796,"body":"felt like the memo was very positive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":234.796,"endTime":239.346,"body":"in that regard, and the idea of,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":234.796,"endTime":239.346,"body":"re aligning developers around the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":239.346,"endTime":242.286,"body":"tasks they need to be focused on,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":239.346,"endTime":242.286,"body":"now that they can use these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":242.286,"endTime":244.256,"body":"tools to automate away other ones."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":244.446,"endTime":247.846,"body":"And that was really the unlock,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":244.446,"endTime":247.846,"body":"they weren't just saying that they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":247.856,"endTime":250.936,"body":"needed to move 30 years in three"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":247.856,"endTime":250.936,"body":"years, they were saying that they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":250.936,"endTime":253.056,"body":"could move 30 years in three years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":253.066,"endTime":256.036,"body":"It's an opportunity, and it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":253.066,"endTime":256.036,"body":"an opportunity that involves"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":256.056,"endTime":257.136,"body":"everybody in the process."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":257.715,"endTime":257.885,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":257.885,"endTime":258.775,"body":"what about you, Ben?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":258.905,"endTime":260.395,"body":"any items top of mind for you?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":261.054,"endTime":261.374,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":261.374,"endTime":266.464,"body":"So, you know, we're recording this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":261.374,"endTime":266.464,"body":"episode on Friday, January 17th, just to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":266.474,"endTime":268.644,"body":"date this for everyone that's out there."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":268.764,"endTime":275.794,"body":"in two short days, there's a set to be a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":268.764,"endTime":275.794,"body":"potential ban of TikTok here in the U S."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":276.054,"endTime":278.914,"body":"of course, by the time this comes"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":276.054,"endTime":278.914,"body":"out, it'll either happen or not"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":278.914,"endTime":281.314,"body":"happen, but it sounds like it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":278.914,"endTime":281.314,"body":"going to happen at this point."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":281.704,"endTime":284.164,"body":"unless there's some sort of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":281.704,"endTime":284.164,"body":"last minute sale of the company."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":284.634,"endTime":289.419,"body":"but you know, in my perspective,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":284.634,"endTime":289.419,"body":"like Bring on the ban?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":289.589,"endTime":293.139,"body":"Like, I'm actually kind of okay"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":289.589,"endTime":293.139,"body":"with this, partly because it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":293.179,"endTime":294.979,"body":"like not actually even a ban."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":295.029,"endTime":298.859,"body":"Like, if you actually look into it,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":295.029,"endTime":298.859,"body":"really all it is is they're forcing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":299.149,"endTime":304.549,"body":"divestiture from a, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":299.149,"endTime":304.549,"body":"company that's owned by a company"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":304.549,"endTime":309.159,"body":"that is very closely associated"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":304.549,"endTime":309.159,"body":"with the Chinese Communist Party."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":309.629,"endTime":314.569,"body":"the thing is like, you know, when you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":309.629,"endTime":314.569,"body":"look at how China treats social media,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":314.619,"endTime":318.28,"body":"you know, they've banned dozens and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":314.619,"endTime":318.28,"body":"potentially even hundreds of American"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":318.309,"endTime":320.679,"body":"apps, uh, within their borders."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":320.709,"endTime":323.149,"body":"And, you know, and over"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":320.709,"endTime":323.149,"body":"there, it's an actual ban."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":323.159,"endTime":325.519,"body":"Like you can be arrested for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":323.159,"endTime":325.519,"body":"using some of these apps."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":326.019,"endTime":329.749,"body":"But, you know, I think really what was"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":326.019,"endTime":329.749,"body":"missing from this entire conversation,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":329.749,"endTime":333.169,"body":"and this is what I want to get to because,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":329.749,"endTime":333.169,"body":"you know, I think whether or not an app"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":333.169,"endTime":337.139,"body":"gets banned is not going to change the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":333.169,"endTime":337.139,"body":"world, but there really are just deeper."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":337.329,"endTime":340.249,"body":"Data privacy issues in our society, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":340.249,"endTime":344.754,"body":"Like we are concerned when a, a foreign"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":340.249,"endTime":344.754,"body":"potentially adversarial government"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":344.754,"endTime":348.594,"body":"might be misusing personal data of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":344.754,"endTime":348.594,"body":"American citizens, but we don't seem"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":348.594,"endTime":352.754,"body":"to take that same rigorous approach"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":348.594,"endTime":352.754,"body":"to, you know, privately owned or"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":352.754,"endTime":354.344,"body":"publicly owned American companies."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":354.354,"endTime":357.534,"body":"So, you know, really what I think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":354.354,"endTime":357.534,"body":"we're missing is like, we should be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":357.534,"endTime":360.904,"body":"having this deeper conversation about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":357.534,"endTime":360.904,"body":"how do we actually have, implement"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":360.914,"endTime":364.974,"body":"data protection laws that protect"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":360.914,"endTime":364.974,"body":"all of us and prevent organizations"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":364.974,"endTime":366.081,"body":"from misusing, personal data."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":366.191,"endTime":369.111,"body":"our personal data and trying"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":366.191,"endTime":369.111,"body":"to use it to manipulate us."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":369.551,"endTime":372.945,"body":"but we'll find out, uh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":369.551,"endTime":372.945,"body":"before this episode comes out, I guess."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":373.245,"endTime":375.585,"body":"Right, I'm sure we'll"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":373.245,"endTime":375.585,"body":"tell our future selves, or our future"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":375.585,"endTime":379.495,"body":"selves will tell us now, and I agree"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":375.585,"endTime":379.495,"body":"about the timely topic and something"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":379.495,"endTime":384.215,"body":"that is, um, when I think of the TikTok"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":379.495,"endTime":384.215,"body":"ban, it reminds me of videos I've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":384.215,"endTime":389.405,"body":"seen of, people in Congress asking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":384.215,"endTime":389.405,"body":"questions about how technology works"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":389.435,"endTime":394.415,"body":"while in the process of creating, very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":389.435,"endTime":394.415,"body":"large sweeping rules that will impact"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":394.435,"endTime":398.055,"body":"the usage of that technology, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":394.435,"endTime":398.055,"body":"development of it, the ownership of it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":398.335,"endTime":400.415,"body":"And these are really impactful decisions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":400.745,"endTime":404.365,"body":"And What always stands out to me,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":400.745,"endTime":404.365,"body":"and of course, these clips go viral"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":404.365,"endTime":409.055,"body":"because they capture the most, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":404.365,"endTime":409.055,"body":"silly of moments, but is the lack of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":409.055,"endTime":414.015,"body":"understanding and the lack of true grasp"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":409.055,"endTime":414.015,"body":"of how technology is used by people."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":414.195,"endTime":418.425,"body":"And when I hear of something like this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":414.195,"endTime":418.425,"body":"like TikTok ban, you know, is a little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":418.425,"endTime":421.645,"body":"more catchy than TikTok divestiture."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":421.675,"endTime":423.435,"body":"And so I guess that's why"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":421.675,"endTime":423.435,"body":"they're calling it that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":423.715,"endTime":429.325,"body":"But it just seems largely unenforceable"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":423.715,"endTime":429.325,"body":"in the way that many other bills"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":429.325,"endTime":434.06,"body":"related to technology have gone"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":429.325,"endTime":434.06,"body":"through that same emotion before it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":434.25,"endTime":437.71,"body":"And what it signals to me every"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":434.25,"endTime":437.71,"body":"time is just the lack of technical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":437.71,"endTime":441.38,"body":"literacy in our world, especially by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":437.71,"endTime":441.38,"body":"the people that make the decisions"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":441.39,"endTime":443.05,"body":"that make the world that we live in."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":443.31,"endTime":447.54,"body":"I think there's a part on all of us to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":443.31,"endTime":447.54,"body":"do better to understand how technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":447.54,"endTime":449.1,"body":"is impacting the world we live in."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":449.931,"endTime":453.301,"body":"Yeah, and man, it"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":449.931,"endTime":453.301,"body":"always comes back to the same topic"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":453.301,"endTime":455.881,"body":"it seems like, but I believe it was"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":453.301,"endTime":455.881,"body":"Facebook that went in front of U."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":455.881,"endTime":456.001,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":456.001,"endTime":461.851,"body":"Congress and, had a senator grill them"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":456.001,"endTime":461.851,"body":"very basic questions about how they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":461.851,"endTime":467.276,"body":"make money and, quickly devolved into,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":461.851,"endTime":467.276,"body":"like, a basic fundamental conversation"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":467.286,"endTime":471.136,"body":"about how the internet functions,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":467.286,"endTime":471.136,"body":"you know, and like, how can you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":471.136,"endTime":475.916,"body":"expect good regulations being applied"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":471.136,"endTime":475.916,"body":"consistently in that environment,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":476.297,"endTime":478.277,"body":"It reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":476.297,"endTime":478.277,"body":"just very recently when we said,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":478.287,"endTime":481.027,"body":"like, would you rather take tech"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":478.287,"endTime":481.027,"body":"teach tech debt to your grandma?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":481.067,"endTime":485.567,"body":"It's kind of that, you know, you need to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":481.067,"endTime":485.567,"body":"explain these concepts to grandma because,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":485.857,"endTime":487.507,"body":"you know, grandma might be in Congress."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":488.053,"endTime":488.653,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":488.653,"endTime":492.813,"body":"man, we need a, we need a GPT that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":488.653,"endTime":492.813,"body":"educates our, our congressional"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":492.813,"endTime":494.713,"body":"representatives on technology."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":497.078,"endTime":498.058,"body":"So, cool."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":498.128,"endTime":500.528,"body":"Well, you know, those are the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":498.128,"endTime":500.528,"body":"stories that we're covering today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":500.528,"endTime":504.428,"body":"But, you know, I want to go ahead"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":500.528,"endTime":504.428,"body":"and hop forward to the guest that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":504.428,"endTime":506.138,"body":"we have, that we brought on today."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":506.478,"endTime":507.418,"body":"Uh, in fact, Dan."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":507.798,"endTime":511.458,"body":"We actually don't really even have a guest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":507.798,"endTime":511.458,"body":"because it's just me and Dan talking about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":511.958,"endTime":516.138,"body":"something that's really important to me"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":511.958,"endTime":516.138,"body":"actually, which is the 2025 Engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":516.148,"endTime":519.167,"body":"Benchmarks report from LinearB."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":519.168,"endTime":522.708,"body":"And in this conversation that I have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":519.168,"endTime":522.708,"body":"with Dan, we're going to talk about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":522.708,"endTime":526.228,"body":"some of the biggest takeaways, you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":522.708,"endTime":526.228,"body":"know, things about cycle time, PR"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":526.278,"endTime":529.218,"body":"maturity, PR size, planning accuracy."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":529.538,"endTime":532.538,"body":"We've got lots of really great"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":529.538,"endTime":532.538,"body":"metrics that we're going to dive into."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":532.828,"endTime":535.708,"body":"and then share a bunch of new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":532.828,"endTime":535.708,"body":"insights that we've found, this year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":535.958,"endTime":539.808,"body":"So after the break, stick around cause"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":535.958,"endTime":539.808,"body":"you don't want to miss that conversation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":543.29,"endTime":546.61,"body":"on January 29th,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":543.29,"endTime":546.61,"body":"join LinearB and Luca Rossi of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":546.62,"endTime":550.38,"body":"Refactoring for a workshop to learn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":546.62,"endTime":550.38,"body":"the three key traits shared by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":550.39,"endTime":552.44,"body":"highly successful engineering teams."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":553.045,"endTime":556.865,"body":"This workshop gets down to brass tacks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":553.045,"endTime":556.865,"body":"with actionable examples, so check"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":556.865,"endTime":561.175,"body":"the show notes the RSVP year spot for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":556.865,"endTime":561.175,"body":"January 29th, and we'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":564.184,"endTime":567.498,"body":"I'm your host Dan Lines, COO."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":567.528,"endTime":573.207,"body":"And today's episode will"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":567.528,"endTime":573.207,"body":"focus on the 2025 Engineering"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":573.217,"endTime":575.967,"body":"Benchmarks Report from LinearB."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":576.657,"endTime":580.467,"body":"We're going to take a look at what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":576.657,"endTime":580.467,"body":"the report found this year and what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":580.467,"endTime":584.867,"body":"the most recent data says about"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":580.467,"endTime":584.867,"body":"engineering teams and what it says"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":584.867,"endTime":586.327,"body":"about the health of those teams."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":586.327,"endTime":590.217,"body":"So like a lot of amazing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":586.327,"endTime":590.217,"body":"information in this report."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":590.727,"endTime":593.617,"body":"And to help me walk through all this data."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":593.772,"endTime":599.592,"body":"I'll be putting Ben Lloyd Pearson,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":593.772,"endTime":599.592,"body":"BLP, LinearB's Director of Developer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":599.592,"endTime":603.602,"body":"Experience in the hot seat and making"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":599.592,"endTime":603.602,"body":"him answer all the questions while I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":603.622,"endTime":606.632,"body":"get to just relax and chill as a host."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":606.642,"endTime":608.692,"body":"So Ben, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":609.084,"endTime":609.704,"body":"Yeah, thanks."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":609.704,"endTime":614.594,"body":"It's a glad, glad to be here as a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":609.704,"endTime":614.594,"body":"guest, I guess now instead of the host."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":614.604,"endTime":615.064,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":615.799,"endTime":618.159,"body":"Yeah, I'm just going"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":615.799,"endTime":618.159,"body":"to chill over a drink, maybe have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":618.159,"endTime":619.929,"body":"a beer, ask you a few questions."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":620.219,"endTime":623.999,"body":"Questions, but no, in all"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":620.219,"endTime":623.999,"body":"seriousness, I think this 2025"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":623.999,"endTime":625.509,"body":"report is super interesting."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":625.509,"endTime":628.24,"body":"So, you know, thanks so much"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":625.509,"endTime":628.24,"body":"for walking us through it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":628.25,"endTime":633.01,"body":"So to kick us off, can you give us,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":628.25,"endTime":633.01,"body":"maybe just give us like a general"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":633.02,"endTime":635.3,"body":"overview of this year's report?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":635.822,"endTime":638.572,"body":"yeah, if I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":635.822,"endTime":638.572,"body":"had to pick like one focal point"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":638.612,"endTime":642.172,"body":"of this year's report, it's the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":638.612,"endTime":642.172,"body":"relationship between developer"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":642.172,"endTime":644.262,"body":"experience and developer productivity."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":644.772,"endTime":648.212,"body":"So specifically I'm referring to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":644.772,"endTime":648.212,"body":"with DevEx, it's when, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":648.212,"endTime":652.412,"body":"your team's overall morale engagement"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":648.212,"endTime":652.412,"body":"with the organization, their tools,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":652.412,"endTime":654.312,"body":"the processes, the environments."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":654.312,"endTime":654.612,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":654.732,"endTime":658.712,"body":"And then on the dev productivity side,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":654.732,"endTime":658.712,"body":"it's a matter of how effectively and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":658.712,"endTime":663.092,"body":"efficiently developers can complete their"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":658.712,"endTime":663.092,"body":"meaningful tasks with minimal waste."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":663.502,"endTime":666.732,"body":"So we're hearing more and more"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":663.502,"endTime":666.732,"body":"from engineering leaders that dev"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":666.752,"endTime":670.332,"body":"productivity is a major focus area,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":666.752,"endTime":670.332,"body":"but you can't actually improve"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":670.332,"endTime":674.422,"body":"productivity without making DevEx a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":670.332,"endTime":674.422,"body":"significant part of that strategy."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":675.117,"endTime":679.807,"body":"So if I had one key takeaway from the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":675.117,"endTime":679.807,"body":"report, it's that you should be measuring"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":679.837,"endTime":683.877,"body":"your investments into DevX to ensure"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":679.837,"endTime":683.877,"body":"that you're minimizing long term risks."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":684.127,"endTime":688.357,"body":"If you're always over investing in new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":684.127,"endTime":688.357,"body":"features, feature enhancements, and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":688.357,"endTime":692.537,"body":"you're ignoring like keeping the lights"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":688.357,"endTime":692.537,"body":"on and the maintenance and DevX side"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":692.537,"endTime":697.017,"body":"of the equation, you may get some short"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":692.537,"endTime":697.017,"body":"term gains, but over the longterm, that's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":697.057,"endTime":698.737,"body":"certainly not going to work out for you."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":699.19,"endTime":704.02,"body":"Yeah, no, you know what I think"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":699.19,"endTime":704.02,"body":"is funny is developer productivity and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":704.02,"endTime":706.35,"body":"developer experience relate to each other."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":706.53,"endTime":706.82,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":706.82,"endTime":707.97,"body":"They're very, very."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":708.315,"endTime":710.155,"body":"I think highly correlated."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":710.645,"endTime":717.815,"body":"And maybe like in 2024 or 2023, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":710.645,"endTime":717.815,"body":"would say DevEx was hot, or maybe,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":718.212,"endTime":721.212,"body":"hey, let's make sure that we have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":718.212,"endTime":721.212,"body":"an amazing experience for our"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":721.212,"endTime":723.112,"body":"developers, which is important."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":723.442,"endTime":728.737,"body":"But I think what business leaders, even"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":723.442,"endTime":728.737,"body":"developers themselves, it's like, I want"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":728.737,"endTime":734.427,"body":"to be productive and maybe I'd rather"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":728.737,"endTime":734.427,"body":"be productive because if I know that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":734.427,"endTime":737.717,"body":"I'm highly, highly productive, and I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":734.427,"endTime":737.717,"body":"think, you know, hopefully we'll get into"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":737.717,"endTime":741.647,"body":"some of this stuff like PR maturity and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":737.717,"endTime":741.647,"body":"merge rates and all that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":742.107,"endTime":745.687,"body":"If I know I'm highly, highly"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":742.107,"endTime":745.687,"body":"productive, I'm highly likely"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":745.687,"endTime":747.697,"body":"to be having a good experience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":748.584,"endTime":748.844,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":748.844,"endTime":751.914,"body":"And I think in particular,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":748.844,"endTime":751.914,"body":"you know, knowing how."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":752.119,"endTime":755.159,"body":"How DevEx impacts your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":752.119,"endTime":755.159,"body":"overall productivity."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":755.629,"endTime":758.729,"body":"Like, when the business, the rest of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":755.629,"endTime":758.729,"body":"the business comes to you and say,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":758.729,"endTime":762.939,"body":"Hey, we need to ship all of these new"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":758.729,"endTime":762.939,"body":"features on this scheduled timeline."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":762.939,"endTime":765.409,"body":"And you have concerns that maybe"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":762.939,"endTime":765.409,"body":"you don't have the resources"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":765.409,"endTime":767.359,"body":"that you need to deliver on that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":767.369,"endTime":771.869,"body":"Like, you know, you need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":767.369,"endTime":771.869,"body":"have that conversation where you can"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":771.879,"endTime":773.669,"body":"push back to actually make sure that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":773.724,"endTime":776.464,"body":"your engineering teams are getting"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":773.724,"endTime":776.464,"body":"the support they need while"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":776.464,"endTime":779.704,"body":"you're still delivering the value"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":776.464,"endTime":779.704,"body":"that your business is expecting."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":780.505,"endTime":784.565,"body":"So this year, I think this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":780.505,"endTime":784.565,"body":"is like at least the second year, maybe"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":784.565,"endTime":786.605,"body":"the, even the third year of the report."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":786.615,"endTime":790.465,"body":"And I'm sure we'll attach the report"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":786.615,"endTime":790.465,"body":"to the show notes and all of that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":790.465,"endTime":793.615,"body":"And there's some webinars that we could"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":790.465,"endTime":793.615,"body":"point you to and that type of thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":794.055,"endTime":798.695,"body":"But is there anything new this year"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":794.055,"endTime":798.695,"body":"about the report versus previous years?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":799.284,"endTime":801.674,"body":"every year"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":799.284,"endTime":801.674,"body":"we look for opportunities to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":801.674,"endTime":803.664,"body":"add new things to the report."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":803.734,"endTime":805.264,"body":"So we've added a few metrics."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":805.364,"endTime":809.424,"body":"the first two that I'll cover are related"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":805.364,"endTime":809.424,"body":"to that give you more of like a granular"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":809.424,"endTime":811.264,"body":"analysis of code review bottlenecks."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":811.274,"endTime":813.174,"body":"So, the first one is approved time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":813.174,"endTime":816.284,"body":"So this is the amount of time"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":813.174,"endTime":816.284,"body":"from the first comment on a PR"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":816.294,"endTime":817.644,"body":"to when it's actually approved."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":818.284,"endTime":819.194,"body":"And then merge time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":819.194,"endTime":823.704,"body":"So that's the time from the first"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":819.194,"endTime":823.704,"body":"approval to when the PR is merged."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":824.554,"endTime":827.464,"body":"There's also a new metric to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":824.554,"endTime":827.464,"body":"help measure upstream conditions"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":827.484,"endTime":829.094,"body":"that create review cycles."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":829.434,"endTime":831.154,"body":"And we call this PR maturity."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":831.154,"endTime":834.014,"body":"And this is probably actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":831.154,"endTime":834.014,"body":"one of the more unique additions"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":834.024,"endTime":835.054,"body":"that we've added this time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":835.424,"endTime":839.994,"body":"And that is the ratio of changes added"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":835.424,"endTime":839.994,"body":"to a branch after a PR is opened."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":840.004,"endTime":844.444,"body":"So if you see a ton of Commits coming"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":840.004,"endTime":844.444,"body":"into a PR after it's been, moved"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":844.444,"endTime":848.364,"body":"out of the draft stage and is now"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":844.444,"endTime":848.364,"body":"actually in the ready for review stage."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":848.994,"endTime":853.354,"body":"It's how many more changes after"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":848.994,"endTime":853.354,"body":"that do you actually see on the PR?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.354,"endTime":857.824,"body":"So I think what our goal here really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.354,"endTime":857.824,"body":"is to just, you know, both to give"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":857.824,"endTime":862.274,"body":"you more granular analysis, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":857.824,"endTime":862.274,"body":"also to give us more indicators that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":862.274,"endTime":866.744,"body":"can help us sort of comprehensively"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":862.274,"endTime":866.744,"body":"understand productivity and experience."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":867.097,"endTime":870.417,"body":"Yeah, I like that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":867.097,"endTime":870.417,"body":"they added these, the approved"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":870.427,"endTime":871.497,"body":"time and the merge time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":871.497,"endTime":875.167,"body":"I think it's, you know, obviously"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":871.497,"endTime":875.167,"body":"they're a part of cycle time, but I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":875.177,"endTime":877.947,"body":"think it's kind of like every team"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":875.177,"endTime":877.947,"body":"works a little bit differently."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":878.307,"endTime":883.337,"body":"Sometimes you might want to focus more"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":878.307,"endTime":883.337,"body":"on approved time or more on merge time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":883.337,"endTime":887.957,"body":"Like for example, uh, let's say, okay,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":883.337,"endTime":887.957,"body":"merge time, the time from first approval"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":887.977,"endTime":890.327,"body":"to when the PR actually gets merged."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":890.337,"endTime":891.847,"body":"Like maybe you have some."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":892.507,"endTime":897.157,"body":"Big process, or maybe you have some slow"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":892.507,"endTime":897.157,"body":"process of like, Hey, you know, the PR is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":897.157,"endTime":901.097,"body":"actually done being reviewed, but it takes"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":897.157,"endTime":901.097,"body":"a long time to get merged for some reason."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":901.097,"endTime":903.687,"body":"I don't know, maybe integration"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":901.097,"endTime":903.687,"body":"failures or something like that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":903.967,"endTime":909.387,"body":"So I think that granularity kind of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":903.967,"endTime":909.387,"body":"probably reflects like being flexible"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":909.387,"endTime":911.977,"body":"about how teams are actually working."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":912.617,"endTime":915.527,"body":"And then the other one that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":912.617,"endTime":915.527,"body":"you mentioned, PR maturity."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":915.527,"endTime":917.387,"body":"Like that one is pretty cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":917.387,"endTime":920.197,"body":"The ratio of changes added to a branch."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":920.657,"endTime":922.627,"body":"After a PR is open."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":922.627,"endTime":926.257,"body":"So that's kind of looking at like, how"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":922.627,"endTime":926.257,"body":"many times do I need to go back and forth?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":926.997,"endTime":930.017,"body":"And I'm hoping it, as we move"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":926.997,"endTime":930.017,"body":"forward here, like you can see so"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":930.017,"endTime":934.117,"body":"much is happening with AI reviews"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":930.017,"endTime":934.117,"body":"and like bot based reviews."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":934.957,"endTime":937.967,"body":"I'm hoping PRs are going"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":934.957,"endTime":937.967,"body":"to get more mature."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":938.977,"endTime":942.087,"body":"I guess it seems like I'm like talking"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":938.977,"endTime":942.087,"body":"about my kids, like, Oh, they're great."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":942.097,"endTime":944.017,"body":"These PRs are really, they're growing up."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":944.017,"endTime":946.317,"body":"They're getting more mature now with AI."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":946.337,"endTime":948.077,"body":"Like, let's say, okay, I'm a developer."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":948.077,"endTime":949.227,"body":"I'm developing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":949.767,"endTime":951.742,"body":"I, open up a PR."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":951.812,"endTime":955.792,"body":"I can have all of this AI stuff"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":951.812,"endTime":955.792,"body":"run on it before I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":955.822,"endTime":957.622,"body":"even, looking for a review."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":957.992,"endTime":962.262,"body":"So it's like I can kind of get it with"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":957.992,"endTime":962.262,"body":"my, like, bot buddy to a better state"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":962.262,"endTime":963.982,"body":"before I'm wasting other people's time."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":964.472,"endTime":968.142,"body":"So I'm, I'm pretty interested in"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":964.472,"endTime":968.142,"body":"how that metric, goes over time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":968.504,"endTime":968.744,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":968.744,"endTime":973.374,"body":"And we'll actually get into, I have some"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":968.744,"endTime":973.374,"body":"insights about PR maturity later too."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":973.374,"endTime":975.874,"body":"So that's, that's what really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":973.374,"endTime":975.874,"body":"excites me about having it is we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":975.884,"endTime":979.984,"body":"were actually able to start drawing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":975.884,"endTime":979.984,"body":"correlations about it now as well."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":980.125,"endTime":984.815,"body":"Okay, so is there anything"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":980.125,"endTime":984.815,"body":"else new in the report that you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":984.825,"endTime":986.255,"body":"would like to highlight to us?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":986.932,"endTime":990.392,"body":"This report also"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":986.932,"endTime":990.392,"body":"includes a whole bunch of new metrics"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":990.422,"endTime":992.382,"body":"related to project management hygiene."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":992.392,"endTime":996.442,"body":"And I know this sounds so boring, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":992.392,"endTime":996.442,"body":"it's actually pretty fascinating or it"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":996.442,"endTime":1000.562,"body":"gives us some very fascinating insights"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":996.442,"endTime":1000.562,"body":"about how engineering teams operate."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1001.397,"endTime":1006.317,"body":"So we have a few metrics that serve as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1001.397,"endTime":1006.317,"body":"proxy metrics for project traceability."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1006.327,"endTime":1010.107,"body":"So these are things like issues"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1006.327,"endTime":1010.107,"body":"that are linked to a parent."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1010.117,"endTime":1014.567,"body":"So this is like the percent of tasks"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1010.117,"endTime":1014.567,"body":"that are linked to a specific parent,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1014.657,"endTime":1016.347,"body":"such as like an epic or a story."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1016.597,"endTime":1019.197,"body":"trying to help you like make sure"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1016.597,"endTime":1019.197,"body":"that things are actually being,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1019.197,"endTime":1022.807,"body":"um, rolled up into the overall,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1019.197,"endTime":1022.807,"body":"initiative within your organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1023.347,"endTime":1027.707,"body":"we also have benchmarks for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1023.347,"endTime":1027.707,"body":"branches linked to PM issues."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1028.027,"endTime":1032.097,"body":"so this is a percent of code branches that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1028.027,"endTime":1032.097,"body":"contain a reference to a specific PM task."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1032.107,"endTime":1035.174,"body":"So, again, like, helping you roll"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1032.107,"endTime":1035.174,"body":"that up by going all the way from"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1035.174,"endTime":1038.784,"body":"the actual work that's being done"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1035.174,"endTime":1038.784,"body":"in your code repositories, and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1038.784,"endTime":1040.084,"body":"making sure that that's connected."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1040.664,"endTime":1044.114,"body":"all the way up to like an initiative"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1040.664,"endTime":1044.114,"body":"that's happening within your organization."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1044.594,"endTime":1048.174,"body":"and you know, what we're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1044.594,"endTime":1048.174,"body":"is help teams monitor their development"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1048.174,"endTime":1053.344,"body":"progress and ensure that actual"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1048.174,"endTime":1053.344,"body":"development work is being tied to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1053.354,"endTime":1056.034,"body":"defined tasks within the organization."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1056.662,"endTime":1057.902,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1056.662,"endTime":1057.902,"body":"that's pretty cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1057.912,"endTime":1063.028,"body":"It's actually nice to see how this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1057.912,"endTime":1063.028,"body":"benchmark report has kind of evolved"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1063.028,"endTime":1069.053,"body":"and Similar to, PR maturity, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1063.028,"endTime":1069.053,"body":"think this report is a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1069.053,"endTime":1071.803,"body":"more mature because the things that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1069.053,"endTime":1071.803,"body":"you're talking about, yeah, they"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1071.803,"endTime":1073.853,"body":"might sound boring on the surface."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1073.853,"endTime":1075.413,"body":"I don't think they're boring at all."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1076.463,"endTime":1077.553,"body":"Let's give an example."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1077.593,"endTime":1081.753,"body":"Let's say that we're giving you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1077.593,"endTime":1081.753,"body":"a benchmark for cycle time or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1081.783,"endTime":1084.733,"body":"even those, PR merge to whatever."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1085.641,"endTime":1088.081,"body":"Let's say that you're really, really"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1085.641,"endTime":1088.081,"body":"good at them and you're elite."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1088.101,"endTime":1090.611,"body":"So you read the report, you find"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1088.101,"endTime":1090.611,"body":"out you're in the elite category."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1090.621,"endTime":1094.011,"body":"It doesn't mean that you're actually"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1090.621,"endTime":1094.011,"body":"delivering like good business"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1094.021,"endTime":1095.931,"body":"value or good project value."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1095.931,"endTime":1098.301,"body":"You could be working on"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1095.931,"endTime":1098.301,"body":"something that's like completely"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1098.451,"endTime":1099.941,"body":"irrelevant to the business."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1100.491,"endTime":1103.861,"body":"And I think with some of this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1100.491,"endTime":1103.861,"body":"hygiene stuff, we're kind of evolving"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1103.861,"endTime":1108.371,"body":"as an engineering organization"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1103.861,"endTime":1108.371,"body":"to say, yeah, we're certainly"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1108.371,"endTime":1110.071,"body":"not just like code monkeys."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1110.071,"endTime":1113.841,"body":"We're not just like a machine that goes"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1110.071,"endTime":1113.841,"body":"out and does stuff super, super fast."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1113.861,"endTime":1114.211,"body":"We're."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1114.541,"endTime":1116.701,"body":"Highly essential to the business."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1116.701,"endTime":1121.251,"body":"So let's give some metrics that show"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1116.701,"endTime":1121.251,"body":"that we're delivering great value, can"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1121.251,"endTime":1123.571,"body":"measure the value, that type of stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1123.571,"endTime":1128.321,"body":"So yeah, I'm super pumped that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1123.571,"endTime":1128.321,"body":"this got, added, into the report."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1129.416,"endTime":1133.046,"body":"And then we have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1129.416,"endTime":1133.046,"body":"two other new measures for sort"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1133.046,"endTime":1136.776,"body":"of related to this for planning"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1133.046,"endTime":1136.776,"body":"and ownership for work items."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1137.546,"endTime":1141.196,"body":"So one of our new benchmarks is In"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1137.546,"endTime":1141.196,"body":"Progress Issues with Estimation."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1141.196,"endTime":1145.496,"body":"So that's the proportion of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1141.196,"endTime":1145.496,"body":"ongoing PM tasks that have a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1145.496,"endTime":1147.536,"body":"time or effort estimate assigned."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1148.236,"endTime":1151.566,"body":"And then In Progress Issues with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1148.236,"endTime":1151.566,"body":"Assignees is also another new benchmark."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1152.116,"endTime":1156.166,"body":"The percent of active PM tasks"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1152.116,"endTime":1156.166,"body":"that have a designated team member"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1156.166,"endTime":1157.946,"body":"responsible for completing them."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1158.316,"endTime":1162.446,"body":"So again, what we're trying to help"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1158.316,"endTime":1162.446,"body":"here solve is, is to ensure more"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1162.446,"endTime":1167.216,"body":"predictability, more accountability, and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1162.446,"endTime":1167.216,"body":"measure, whether your organization is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1167.226,"endTime":1171.346,"body":"able to effectively manage Workloads,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1167.226,"endTime":1171.346,"body":"because you think about something like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1171.366,"endTime":1175.686,"body":"time estimations, you know, not every"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1171.366,"endTime":1175.686,"body":"organization t shirt sizes their work,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1175.726,"endTime":1180.706,"body":"but it can be very helpful to know when"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1175.726,"endTime":1180.706,"body":"you have large proportions of work that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1180.706,"endTime":1185.066,"body":"are not getting time estimated, because"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1180.706,"endTime":1185.066,"body":"that could indicate, for example,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1185.066,"endTime":1189.026,"body":"that there may be some, predictability"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1185.066,"endTime":1189.026,"body":"risks coming down the pipeline."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1189.974,"endTime":1190.814,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1190.814,"endTime":1192.544,"body":"It's I'll double down on what it said."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1192.544,"endTime":1197.304,"body":"I think it's like being a pro engineering"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1192.544,"endTime":1197.304,"body":"team or like a highly elite engineering"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1197.304,"endTime":1199.334,"body":"team, predictability matters a lot."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1200.074,"endTime":1204.804,"body":"And some of these metrics, I can't wait"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1200.074,"endTime":1204.804,"body":"to see what the bench benchmarks actually"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1204.804,"endTime":1209.144,"body":"are here, but they're really saying"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1204.804,"endTime":1209.144,"body":"like, yeah, I'm an elite efficiency and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1209.144,"endTime":1214.194,"body":"quality organization, but I'm also a lead"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1209.144,"endTime":1214.194,"body":"at understanding workloads, therefore"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1214.224,"endTime":1216.054,"body":"understanding developer experience."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1216.054,"endTime":1221.024,"body":"Therefore, Delivering on time to the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1216.054,"endTime":1221.024,"body":"business like that's how you be the best."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1221.484,"endTime":1226.267,"body":"I would say professional engineering"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1221.484,"endTime":1226.267,"body":"organization I'm going to move us now."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1226.417,"endTime":1229.467,"body":"So we have an insights"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1226.417,"endTime":1229.467,"body":"and, takeaways, section."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1229.467,"endTime":1233.557,"body":"So yeah, Ben, great stuff, giving"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1229.467,"endTime":1233.557,"body":"us the overview, really interesting"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1233.567,"endTime":1234.897,"body":"things that have been added."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1234.907,"endTime":1238.387,"body":"Love that they have all of the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1234.907,"endTime":1238.387,"body":"project delivery, predictability"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1238.397,"endTime":1239.907,"body":"stuff now in the report."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1240.237,"endTime":1243.947,"body":"So thanks to us, you know, for running"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1240.237,"endTime":1243.947,"body":"that all down with, with the audience."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1243.947,"endTime":1248.907,"body":"Let's close the episode on the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1243.947,"endTime":1248.907,"body":"insights and takeaways engineering"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1248.917,"endTime":1250.947,"body":"leaders can gain from the report."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1251.724,"endTime":1256.074,"body":"Yeah, so the biggest"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1251.724,"endTime":1256.074,"body":"one that was actually very surprising"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1256.084,"endTime":1258.114,"body":"to me is related to cycle time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1258.484,"endTime":1263.634,"body":"And that is specifically longer cycle"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1258.484,"endTime":1263.634,"body":"times correlate with quality risks,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1263.644,"endTime":1266.344,"body":"specifically around change failure rate."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1266.874,"endTime":1270.689,"body":"we've long, known that there's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1266.874,"endTime":1270.689,"body":"this correlation between"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1270.689,"endTime":1271.889,"body":"cycle time and efficiency."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1271.889,"endTime":1275.809,"body":"Like it's an obvious correlation, but"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1271.889,"endTime":1275.809,"body":"we still have data to validate it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1275.859,"endTime":1280.629,"body":"it was actually pretty surprising to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1275.859,"endTime":1280.629,"body":"see the stark difference in metrics like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1280.639,"endTime":1286.459,"body":"CFR, change failure rate for teams that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1280.639,"endTime":1286.459,"body":"had faster cycles versus slower cycles."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1286.789,"endTime":1290.879,"body":"In fact, I think if I recall, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1286.789,"endTime":1290.879,"body":"believe organizations who fell into"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1290.879,"endTime":1295.609,"body":"the elite category of cycle time"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1290.879,"endTime":1295.609,"body":"were like Half is likely to fall"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1295.639,"endTime":1299.109,"body":"into the needs focus area for CFR."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1299.689,"endTime":1303.129,"body":"That's additionally this carried"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1299.689,"endTime":1303.129,"body":"over into deploy time as well."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1303.129,"endTime":1306.379,"body":"So a longer deploy time also"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1303.129,"endTime":1306.379,"body":"correlates with higher CFR,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1307.012,"endTime":1308.062,"body":"No, that's really cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1308.302,"endTime":1309.932,"body":"It's like the rich get richer, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1309.942,"endTime":1313.832,"body":"If you're really efficient, then you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1309.942,"endTime":1313.832,"body":"also kind of doubling down on quality."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1314.372,"endTime":1319.182,"body":"I would have to guess, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1314.372,"endTime":1319.182,"body":"because if you're that type of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1319.182,"endTime":1323.892,"body":"organization that can have an elite"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1319.182,"endTime":1323.892,"body":"cycle time, it probably means that you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1323.892,"endTime":1325.912,"body":"have the right automations in place."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1326.622,"endTime":1330.052,"body":"You're probably Also have a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1326.622,"endTime":1330.052,"body":"lot of automated testing, a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1330.052,"endTime":1331.822,"body":"lot of integration testing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1332.172,"endTime":1336.942,"body":"Maybe you've even started playing into"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1332.172,"endTime":1336.942,"body":"the AI game, AI review game, all of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1336.942,"endTime":1339.152,"body":"that, maybe even AI test creation."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1339.902,"endTime":1344.822,"body":"And so I could see kind of just like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1339.902,"endTime":1344.822,"body":"without even thinking about the data, if"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1344.842,"endTime":1348.042,"body":"you think about maybe like some of the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1344.842,"endTime":1348.042,"body":"best engineering teams in the world, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1348.052,"endTime":1350.152,"body":"think of like Netflix, you think Spotify."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1350.592,"endTime":1354.262,"body":"Yeah, they probably move super fast"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1350.592,"endTime":1354.262,"body":"and their quality is super high"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1354.262,"endTime":1358.912,"body":"because That ecosystem or however you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1354.262,"endTime":1358.912,"body":"want to describe it surrounding the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1358.912,"endTime":1361.502,"body":"developer is probably really tight."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1362.182,"endTime":1366.012,"body":"And the other thing is you know"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1362.182,"endTime":1366.012,"body":"this Ben from being a developer,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1366.012,"endTime":1370.452,"body":"it's like as code is sitting there"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1366.012,"endTime":1370.452,"body":"it almost gets stale in a sense."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1371.222,"endTime":1373.442,"body":"Or like things are moving underneath it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1373.482,"endTime":1375.492,"body":"It's like only bad things can happen."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1375.502,"endTime":1377.482,"body":"The longer code is not merged."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1378.909,"endTime":1381.379,"body":"and picking it"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1378.909,"endTime":1381.379,"body":"back up after it sat for a week"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1381.389,"endTime":1382.869,"body":"can be such a huge challenge."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1383.288,"endTime":1385.288,"body":"so keeping the theme on cycle time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1385.308,"endTime":1389.518,"body":"So now that we know that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1385.308,"endTime":1389.518,"body":"cycle time is both a thing to focus"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1389.518,"endTime":1391.668,"body":"on if you want quality and efficiency."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1392.548,"endTime":1394.498,"body":"Let's talk about some of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1392.548,"endTime":1394.498,"body":"the things that impact."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1394.653,"endTime":1395.293,"body":"cycle time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1395.593,"endTime":1399.363,"body":"So one of them is, a thing that we've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1395.593,"endTime":1399.363,"body":"thought for quite a while the case,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1399.383,"endTime":1402.973,"body":"but it's nice to just have data that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1399.383,"endTime":1402.973,"body":"validates our theories, and that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1402.973,"endTime":1405.673,"body":"is that PR size drives velocity."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1405.753,"endTime":1412.223,"body":"So smaller PRs, reduce pickup time, they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1405.753,"endTime":1412.223,"body":"reduce merge time and large PRs sort of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1412.223,"endTime":1417.473,"body":"do the opposite and actually even require"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1412.223,"endTime":1417.473,"body":"more review modifications typically."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1418.203,"endTime":1422.573,"body":"we found things like larger PRs"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1418.203,"endTime":1422.573,"body":"wait longer for reviews and have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1422.633,"endTime":1424.343,"body":"a longer overall cycle time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1424.723,"endTime":1429.923,"body":"PRs that wait longer for reviews also"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1424.723,"endTime":1429.923,"body":"wait longer to be merged after approval."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1430.373,"endTime":1434.363,"body":"larger PRs are more likely to be heavily"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1430.373,"endTime":1434.363,"body":"modified during the review process."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1434.363,"endTime":1438.643,"body":"So there's almost this cascading"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1434.363,"endTime":1438.643,"body":"negative effect that is created"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1438.643,"endTime":1440.573,"body":"when your PR size gets too big."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1441.736,"endTime":1443.646,"body":"Yeah, again,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1441.736,"endTime":1443.646,"body":"totally makes sense."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1443.686,"endTime":1449.206,"body":"Like all the companies that I work"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1443.686,"endTime":1449.206,"body":"with, I always recommend trying to get"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1449.246,"endTime":1455.676,"body":"your PR size into the elite benchmark"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1449.246,"endTime":1455.676,"body":"because you get that double down effect."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1456.266,"endTime":1458.546,"body":"One, you're going to be more efficient."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1458.876,"endTime":1460.086,"body":"You're going to be faster."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1460.616,"endTime":1462.826,"body":"Two, your quality is going to increase."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1462.836,"endTime":1466.206,"body":"So it's like any time that you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1462.836,"endTime":1466.206,"body":"could focus on a metric that does,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1466.566,"endTime":1468.116,"body":"you get the two for one, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1468.706,"endTime":1470.046,"body":"What else do you got for us here?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1470.503,"endTime":1472.493,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1470.503,"endTime":1472.493,"body":"I mentioned the PR maturity."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1472.563,"endTime":1475.983,"body":"We found some insights with that,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1472.563,"endTime":1475.983,"body":"specifically it correlates directly"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1475.983,"endTime":1480.343,"body":"with efficiency, probably not super"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1475.983,"endTime":1480.343,"body":"surprising to our audience, but A"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1480.343,"endTime":1485.113,"body":"higher PR maturity reduces rework"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1480.343,"endTime":1485.113,"body":"and speeds up merge frequencies."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1485.443,"endTime":1489.723,"body":"So it really kind of encourages"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1485.443,"endTime":1489.723,"body":"better prepared, PR submissions."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1490.043,"endTime":1493.743,"body":"the higher PR maturity also"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1490.043,"endTime":1493.743,"body":"correlates with higher merge"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1493.753,"endTime":1495.573,"body":"frequency and shorter pickup times."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1495.573,"endTime":1499.393,"body":"you definitely want to focus on"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1495.573,"endTime":1499.393,"body":"a culture where developers have."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1499.853,"endTime":1504.453,"body":"All of the insights, all of the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1499.853,"endTime":1504.453,"body":"expectations set, before they've sent"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1504.453,"endTime":1508.603,"body":"their PR off to reviews, because, the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1504.453,"endTime":1508.603,"body":"more you have to revisit it after it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1508.603,"endTime":1512.603,"body":"been opened, the more it just creates"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1508.603,"endTime":1512.603,"body":"complexity issues for your organization."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1513.011,"endTime":1516.441,"body":"Yeah, I mean, anytime that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1513.011,"endTime":1516.441,"body":"you're asking someone else to stop"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1516.441,"endTime":1519.791,"body":"what they're doing, and like, come"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1516.441,"endTime":1519.791,"body":"help with the PR, then you make, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1519.791,"endTime":1524.071,"body":"like, review it, make the PR change,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1519.791,"endTime":1524.071,"body":"then come help again, like, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1524.071,"endTime":1525.781,"body":"kind of that opposite double down."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1525.831,"endTime":1528.231,"body":"It's like the double down effect"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1525.831,"endTime":1528.231,"body":"in a negative way, because"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1528.291,"endTime":1529.671,"body":"you're affecting multiple people."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1530.301,"endTime":1533.556,"body":"anything else in the Okay, go for it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1533.718,"endTime":1536.278,"body":"Yeah, I just got"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1533.718,"endTime":1536.278,"body":"one last one that is a, it's a bit"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1536.278,"endTime":1538.938,"body":"of an example of how not to do it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1539.068,"endTime":1541.938,"body":"and that was an insight that we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1539.068,"endTime":1541.938,"body":"didn't really expect to encounter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1542.258,"endTime":1547.638,"body":"we found that teams with poor project"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1542.258,"endTime":1547.638,"body":"management hygiene actually move faster"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1547.678,"endTime":1549.728,"body":"than those that have good hygiene."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1550.158,"endTime":1557.083,"body":"if you aren't referencing your PRS,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1550.158,"endTime":1557.083,"body":"against a JIRA ticket or You actually"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1557.193,"endTime":1562.343,"body":"probably have a faster cycle time than"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1557.193,"endTime":1562.343,"body":"companies that do that consistently."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1563.003,"endTime":1567.333,"body":"However, I would stress that there's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1563.003,"endTime":1567.333,"body":"probably some issues that you're"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1567.333,"endTime":1571.473,"body":"introducing to the organization if you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1567.333,"endTime":1571.473,"body":"take this approach related to like,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1571.878,"endTime":1577.328,"body":"Misaligned Goals, Technical Debt,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1571.878,"endTime":1577.328,"body":"Lack of Visibility, into to where"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1577.338,"endTime":1579.068,"body":"product work is actually happening."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1579.078,"endTime":1583.128,"body":"So, you know, I'm not going to go out"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1579.078,"endTime":1583.128,"body":"and make the recommendation that we all"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1583.128,"endTime":1585.878,"body":"need to stop, updating our JIRA statuses."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1585.908,"endTime":1588.058,"body":"But I will make one recommendation."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1588.698,"endTime":1589.508,"body":"Automate it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1590.846,"endTime":1592.266,"body":"Yeah, no, I love that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1592.296,"endTime":1593.476,"body":"Automate it for sure."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1594.126,"endTime":1594.386,"body":"all right."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1594.386,"endTime":1598.926,"body":"What about the investment"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1594.386,"endTime":1598.926,"body":"profile section of the report?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1598.926,"endTime":1602.206,"body":"I talked to a lot of engineering"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1598.926,"endTime":1602.206,"body":"leaders about this who want to invest in"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1602.206,"endTime":1606.926,"body":"developer experience and to demonstrate,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1602.206,"endTime":1606.926,"body":"that type of spend to the business."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1606.926,"endTime":1608.556,"body":"Like what do you got cooking for us there?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1609.388,"endTime":1611.728,"body":"Yeah, so this is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1609.388,"endTime":1611.728,"body":"actually one of my favorite aspects"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1611.748,"endTime":1615.078,"body":"of this report, and I'm really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1611.748,"endTime":1615.078,"body":"happy that it returns this year."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1615.428,"endTime":1619.858,"body":"and it, you know, the name makes"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1615.428,"endTime":1619.858,"body":"it sound very dry and high level."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1620.223,"endTime":1624.223,"body":"But, you know, we hear from a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1620.223,"endTime":1624.223,"body":"organizations about how hard it is to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1624.223,"endTime":1627.293,"body":"justify putting investments into DevX."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1627.353,"endTime":1630.613,"body":"And I believe, I legitimately"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1627.353,"endTime":1630.613,"body":"believe that in that measuring your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1630.613,"endTime":1632.843,"body":"investment profile is how you do it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1633.173,"endTime":1636.893,"body":"so our benchmark founds that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1633.173,"endTime":1636.893,"body":"on average, so this is just a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1637.283,"endTime":1641.573,"body":"simple average of, I think 3000"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1637.283,"endTime":1641.573,"body":"organizations that were a part of this."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1641.983,"endTime":1646.893,"body":"so on average organizations spend about"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1641.983,"endTime":1646.893,"body":"55 percent of their time on new value."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1646.943,"endTime":1651.143,"body":"So this is new features, roadmap"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1646.943,"endTime":1651.143,"body":"work, new platform or partner"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1651.173,"endTime":1653.053,"body":"applications, things like that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1653.433,"endTime":1656.173,"body":"about 20 percent on feature enhancements."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1656.203,"endTime":1659.663,"body":"So this is improving,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1656.203,"endTime":1659.663,"body":"focusing on performance,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1659.673,"endTime":1661.793,"body":"reliability, improving quality."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1662.793,"endTime":1668.893,"body":"About 15 percent is spent on DevEx, so"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1662.793,"endTime":1668.893,"body":"in this category we include things like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1668.943,"endTime":1675.143,"body":"refactoring, test automation, dev tooling,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1668.943,"endTime":1675.143,"body":"reducing the keeping the lights on bucket."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1675.493,"endTime":1678.303,"body":"And then the last 10 percent is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1675.493,"endTime":1678.303,"body":"for keeping the lights on, so"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1678.343,"endTime":1679.923,"body":"this is maintenance and services."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1680.443,"endTime":1682.748,"body":"So I think what's really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1680.443,"endTime":1682.748,"body":"important to keep in mind."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1682.828,"endTime":1687.158,"body":"Take away from this specific benchmark"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1682.828,"endTime":1687.158,"body":"is that it's really just a recommendation"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1687.498,"endTime":1691.808,"body":"and every organization should adjust"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1687.498,"endTime":1691.808,"body":"it depending on their situation."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1692.138,"endTime":1695.688,"body":"And really, what I want to stress"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1692.138,"endTime":1695.688,"body":"is that the most critical aspect is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1695.688,"endTime":1698.338,"body":"that you don't under invest in DevEx."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1698.338,"endTime":1702.438,"body":"Like you should know how much you're"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1698.338,"endTime":1702.438,"body":"investing over the long term in DevEx"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1702.468,"endTime":1708.103,"body":"because If you're under investing, you'll"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1702.468,"endTime":1708.103,"body":"start to see things like unexpected work"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1708.143,"endTime":1712.803,"body":"creep into your sprints, and other things"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1708.143,"endTime":1712.803,"body":"that directly impact your organization's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1712.803,"endTime":1716.303,"body":"ability to continuously produce new value."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1716.763,"endTime":1721.143,"body":"so I encourage our audience to check"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1716.763,"endTime":1721.143,"body":"out this webinar that we ran, back in,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1721.193,"endTime":1725.633,"body":"December of last year, where we brought"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1721.193,"endTime":1725.633,"body":"in some experts from CircleCI and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1725.633,"endTime":1729.423,"body":"MongoDB to cover this because we really,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1725.633,"endTime":1729.423,"body":"did get to dive into this a lot more."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1730.215,"endTime":1731.345,"body":"Dan, I actually have."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1731.695,"endTime":1738.465,"body":"One question for you now, after you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1731.695,"endTime":1738.465,"body":"heard all of this summary, you put"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1738.465,"endTime":1742.315,"body":"yourself in the shoes of, of our"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1738.465,"endTime":1742.315,"body":"audience, engineering leaders out there"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1742.315,"endTime":1745.065,"body":"that are making their plans for 2025."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1745.075,"endTime":1747.525,"body":"You know, we're already into the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1745.075,"endTime":1747.525,"body":"year a little bit, but it's still"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1747.525,"endTime":1749.825,"body":"not too late to define your plans."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1750.195,"endTime":1753.655,"body":"what do you think our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1750.195,"endTime":1753.655,"body":"should take away from this report?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1754.178,"endTime":1758.128,"body":"I wasn't going to answer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1754.178,"endTime":1758.128,"body":"any questions on this pod, BLP, but"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1758.128,"endTime":1759.918,"body":"I'm going to do it cause I love you."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1760.338,"endTime":1761.778,"body":"And here's what I would say."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1761.788,"endTime":1763.878,"body":"First of all, go read the report, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1763.878,"endTime":1768.078,"body":"It's there for you should know what the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1763.878,"endTime":1768.078,"body":"standards are, what the benchmarks are."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1768.458,"endTime":1773.288,"body":"But I think that 2025 is"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1768.458,"endTime":1773.288,"body":"the year of productivity for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1773.288,"endTime":1774.828,"body":"engineering organizations."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1775.238,"endTime":1777.008,"body":"So if you're an engineering leader."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1777.258,"endTime":1781.078,"body":"Understand the report, know where"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1777.258,"endTime":1781.078,"body":"you stand against the report."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1781.658,"endTime":1784.518,"body":"And then for any of the metrics"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1781.658,"endTime":1784.518,"body":"that you want to get better"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1784.518,"endTime":1787.298,"body":"at, use automation, use AI."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1787.308,"endTime":1789.878,"body":"You gotta be into this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1787.308,"endTime":1789.878,"body":"stuff now to improve."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1789.888,"endTime":1793.578,"body":"The best way to improve cycle"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1789.888,"endTime":1793.578,"body":"time is through automation."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1793.578,"endTime":1796.688,"body":"The best way to improve, PR"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1793.578,"endTime":1796.688,"body":"maturity is through automation."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1797.118,"endTime":1800.078,"body":"make sure that you're, deploying"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1797.118,"endTime":1800.078,"body":"that within your organization,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1800.078,"endTime":1802.688,"body":"focus on productivity, and I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1800.078,"endTime":1802.688,"body":"think you'll be in great shape."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1802.953,"endTime":1803.393,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1803.849,"endTime":1808.099,"body":"Alright everyone, so,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1803.849,"endTime":1808.099,"body":"first of all, thanks so much Ben,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1808.149,"endTime":1810.349,"body":"your overview was super insightful."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1810.7,"endTime":1816.08,"body":"For anyone listening, if you or your"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1810.7,"endTime":1816.08,"body":"team want to see where your team's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1816.08,"endTime":1821.73,"body":"metrics stand, be sure to visit the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1816.08,"endTime":1821.73,"body":"Engineering Benchmarks Report at LinearB."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1821.8,"endTime":1822.31,"body":"io."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1822.31,"endTime":1824.89,"body":"Of course, we'll put the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1822.31,"endTime":1824.89,"body":"link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1825.24,"endTime":1829.24,"body":"If you want to listen to some other"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1825.24,"endTime":1829.24,"body":"great engineering leaders break down"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1829.28,"endTime":1831.72,"body":"everything in the report, you can watch."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1831.85,"endTime":1834.23,"body":"webinar that we've"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1831.85,"endTime":1834.23,"body":"mentioned a few times here."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1834.72,"endTime":1837.85,"body":"We have Rob, CTO at CircleCI, Tara."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1838.275,"endTime":1840.535,"body":"VP of Developer Productivity at Mongo."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1840.545,"endTime":1844.745,"body":"Share their thoughts and insights"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1840.545,"endTime":1844.745,"body":"There's some great anecdotes there,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1844.745,"endTime":1846.665,"body":"so be sure to check that out."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1846.665,"endTime":1849.345,"body":"We'll also put a link to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1846.665,"endTime":1849.345,"body":"that in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1849.385,"endTime":1853.375,"body":"Thanks again, Ben, and thanks"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1849.385,"endTime":1853.375,"body":"for listening, everyone."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":1853.435,"endTime":1854.745,"body":"We'll see you next week."}]}