{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":6.705,"endTime":8.535,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":6.705,"endTime":8.535,"body":"Dev Interrupted, everyone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":8.845,"endTime":10.445,"body":"I'm your host, Andrew Zigler."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":10.465,"endTime":15.485,"body":"Joining me today, as you know, is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":10.465,"endTime":15.485,"body":"fellow host Dan Lines, CEO of LinearB."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":15.915,"endTime":17.365,"body":"Always great to have you here, Dan."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":18.236,"endTime":18.566,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":18.566,"endTime":19.716,"body":"Awesome to be on."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":19.846,"endTime":20.416,"body":"Thanks, man."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":20.855,"endTime":21.585,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":21.995,"endTime":24.885,"body":"Uh, you know, listeners, we have a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":21.995,"endTime":24.885,"body":"great episode in store for you today."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":24.885,"endTime":28.175,"body":"It's featuring a conversation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":24.885,"endTime":28.175,"body":"with Dr. Maryam Ashoori."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":28.445,"endTime":31.975,"body":"She's the head of product"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":28.445,"endTime":31.975,"body":"for Watson X AI at IBM."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":31.975,"endTime":36.355,"body":"She had a lot of really great insights"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":31.975,"endTime":36.355,"body":"on how AI is reshaping engineering work,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":36.575,"endTime":37.905,"body":"and I'm really excited to share them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":38.371,"endTime":41.451,"body":"But before we get there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":38.371,"endTime":41.451,"body":"Dan, I know you've listened to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":41.451,"endTime":44.731,"body":"Dr. Ashoori's conversation, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":41.451,"endTime":44.731,"body":"you have a lot of insights too,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":44.761,"endTime":49.221,"body":"in your role at LinearB, about how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":44.761,"endTime":49.221,"body":"AI is reshaping engineering work."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":49.376,"endTime":50.426,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":50.716,"endTime":52.686,"body":"I would say I talk AI."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":52.726,"endTime":59.396,"body":"So maybe per week I'm meeting with"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":52.726,"endTime":59.396,"body":"10 customers or, or prospects that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":59.396,"endTime":61.781,"body":"are utilizing LinearB in any way."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":62.261,"endTime":68.771,"body":"We talk AI probably 8 times, 10"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":62.261,"endTime":68.771,"body":"times, so like absolutely, I think"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":68.771,"endTime":70.101,"body":"it's top of mind for everybody."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":70.635,"endTime":72.265,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":70.635,"endTime":72.265,"body":"unavoidable, an unavoidable"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":72.265,"endTime":73.085,"body":"topic for sure."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":73.125,"endTime":75.385,"body":"It's really kind of hard for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":73.125,"endTime":75.385,"body":"it to not come up anywhere."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":75.625,"endTime":77.775,"body":"Sometimes when you have a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":75.625,"endTime":77.775,"body":"conversation and AI doesn't come up,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":77.795,"endTime":80.745,"body":"then it kind of becomes a delight"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":77.795,"endTime":80.745,"body":"or a rarity these days, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":81.301,"endTime":81.311,"body":"haha"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":82.631,"endTime":83.741,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":82.631,"endTime":83.741,"body":"let's dig into some of that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":83.781,"endTime":87.551,"body":"some of what Maryam is going to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":83.781,"endTime":87.551,"body":"talking about, about how, particularly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":87.551,"endTime":91.601,"body":"how AI is going to be impacting the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":87.551,"endTime":91.601,"body":"developer experience and developer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":91.601,"endTime":97.111,"body":"productivity and how AI is ultimately"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":91.601,"endTime":97.111,"body":"shaping the skills that developers need"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":97.111,"endTime":100.891,"body":"to be picking up in order to be more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":97.111,"endTime":100.891,"body":"effective and they get their work done."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":100.961,"endTime":104.421,"body":"And I wanted to get a sense of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":100.961,"endTime":104.421,"body":"how does that line up with things that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":104.421,"endTime":107.861,"body":"you see when you talk with engineering"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":104.421,"endTime":107.861,"body":"teams and you see how they're realigning?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":108.366,"endTime":112.036,"body":"first of all, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":108.366,"endTime":112.036,"body":"what she was saying was very interesting,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":112.086,"endTime":116.266,"body":"but I can just give my perspective and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":112.086,"endTime":116.266,"body":"I'll give it from two different ways."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":116.276,"endTime":120.206,"body":"So one is, I'm talking to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":116.276,"endTime":120.206,"body":"developer experience teams."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":120.216,"endTime":124.372,"body":"So you got developers and you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":120.216,"endTime":124.372,"body":"got DevEx teams, DevEx teams."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":124.927,"endTime":130.457,"body":"know that they should be or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":124.927,"endTime":130.457,"body":"need to be using AI to gain"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":130.457,"endTime":132.447,"body":"productivity for the business."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":132.527,"endTime":134.447,"body":"So that's kind of understood now."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":134.487,"endTime":135.687,"body":"Okay, that's my mission."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":135.687,"endTime":139.887,"body":"I need to use this AI in some way,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":135.687,"endTime":139.887,"body":"shape, or form for my developers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":140.417,"endTime":146.457,"body":"But also what I'm hearing is it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":140.417,"endTime":146.457,"body":"still fairly unknown or unproven."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":146.467,"endTime":149.297,"body":"They're having a hard time"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":146.467,"endTime":149.297,"body":"saying it definitely is."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":149.387,"endTime":152.807,"body":"Is, uh, improving productivity or not?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":152.817,"endTime":157.567,"body":"So for example, the last customer that I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":152.817,"endTime":157.567,"body":"talked to about it was like two days ago."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":158.007,"endTime":162.547,"body":"And they were like, yeah, we, uh, rolled"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":158.007,"endTime":162.547,"body":"out, you know, like co pilot, to the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":162.547,"endTime":166.987,"body":"entire engineering organization, did a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":162.547,"endTime":166.987,"body":"survey of the teams, like ask people."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":167.387,"endTime":171.237,"body":"And it was like one team said,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":167.387,"endTime":171.237,"body":"okay, I think it's effective."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":171.267,"endTime":173.907,"body":"And most of the team"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":171.267,"endTime":173.907,"body":"said, I don't know yet."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":174.987,"endTime":178.087,"body":"And so I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":174.987,"endTime":178.087,"body":"DevEx teams are facing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":178.087,"endTime":180.617,"body":"Kind of like, Hey, I know I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":178.087,"endTime":180.617,"body":"need to be using this stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":180.637,"endTime":183.137,"body":"I know it needs to drive productivity."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":183.217,"endTime":186.247,"body":"I'm unsure if it is or not."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":186.247,"endTime":187.727,"body":"So that's one problem to solve."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":188.397,"endTime":191.517,"body":"But I think that the other thing about"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":188.397,"endTime":191.517,"body":"it, and I know that we'll get into it,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":191.527,"endTime":196.487,"body":"is like being more, I think, intentional"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":191.527,"endTime":196.487,"body":"and specific about how it's going to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":196.487,"endTime":202.001,"body":"make you productive, From the developer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":196.487,"endTime":202.001,"body":"side, I'm also hearing a range of things."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":202.011,"endTime":204.331,"body":"Like we rolled some out at LinearB."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":204.371,"endTime":207.521,"body":"We rolled out our AI code"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":204.371,"endTime":207.521,"body":"review to our developers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":208.541,"endTime":210.441,"body":"Some of the feedback is like amazing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":210.451,"endTime":214.089,"body":"Hey, We need to do this"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":210.451,"endTime":214.089,"body":"AI code review everywhere."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":214.119,"endTime":216.419,"body":"It's already finding bugs and stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":216.429,"endTime":217.459,"body":"Like we should keep it."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":217.959,"endTime":221.749,"body":"And then other times like you might hear,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":217.959,"endTime":221.749,"body":"okay, it still needs a little bit of work."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":221.899,"endTime":225.129,"body":"Like it suggests it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":221.899,"endTime":225.129,"body":"something different or wrong, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":225.129,"endTime":226.779,"body":"So it's kind of like still in the work."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":227.119,"endTime":232.219,"body":"The most advanced thing that I've seen"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":227.119,"endTime":232.219,"body":"is we had a developer that's actually"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":232.219,"endTime":234.959,"body":"like managing a team of AI bots."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":236.139,"endTime":240.579,"body":"So it's like, okay, now I'm a developer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":236.139,"endTime":240.579,"body":"and I have three bots that are like."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":241.604,"endTime":244.374,"body":"Getting, the story done or the issue done."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":244.374,"endTime":246.574,"body":"I have one creating, tasks."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":246.574,"endTime":247.774,"body":"I have one writing code."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":247.774,"endTime":249.444,"body":"I have one QA ing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":249.824,"endTime":252.824,"body":"So I know that sounds like a little"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":249.824,"endTime":252.824,"body":"bit advanced, but I think like for"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":252.824,"endTime":256.614,"body":"developers, there's a big range"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":252.824,"endTime":256.614,"body":"right now of where do you fall."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":256.614,"endTime":258.564,"body":"Are you like commanding a team of bots?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":258.564,"endTime":261.394,"body":"Are you still learning like"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":258.564,"endTime":261.394,"body":"prompts and that kind of stuff?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":261.394,"endTime":262.474,"body":"So, that's what"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":262.474,"endTime":263.254,"body":"I see in the field."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":263.768,"endTime":265.258,"body":"I completely"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":263.768,"endTime":265.258,"body":"resonate with that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":265.258,"endTime":267.478,"body":"That's what I hear from folks as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":265.258,"endTime":267.478,"body":"well, when they talk about the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":267.478,"endTime":270.408,"body":"folks that are really getting ahead,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":267.478,"endTime":270.408,"body":"that are utilizing this, to kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":270.408,"endTime":271.658,"body":"of get ahead in their productivity."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":271.858,"endTime":274.248,"body":"They're splitting their work"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":271.858,"endTime":274.248,"body":"into a bunch of little agents,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":274.248,"endTime":275.478,"body":"a bunch of little workflows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":275.755,"endTime":277.275,"body":"But most importantly, they're managing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":277.425,"endTime":281.495,"body":"Those outputs, they're, being in charge"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":277.425,"endTime":281.495,"body":"of the decisions and the information that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":281.495,"endTime":284.981,"body":"goes into them, but they're not spending"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":281.495,"endTime":284.981,"body":"as much of the time doing, which is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":284.981,"endTime":288.801,"body":"what, uh, you know, Dr. Ashoori really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":284.981,"endTime":288.801,"body":"focuses on in our conversation is that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":288.801,"endTime":294.441,"body":"shift from being the doer to the decision"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":288.801,"endTime":294.441,"body":"maker, the decision manager, and how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":294.441,"endTime":296.251,"body":"AI kind of gives you that focus, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":297.141,"endTime":299.131,"body":"I really like that part around."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":299.131,"endTime":303.761,"body":"I think she said like act doers or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":299.131,"endTime":303.761,"body":"like decision makers versus doers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":303.811,"endTime":306.951,"body":"It actually made me think of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":303.811,"endTime":306.951,"body":"something pretty interesting."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":307.181,"endTime":310.221,"body":"Like when I was developing"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":307.181,"endTime":310.221,"body":"and I think it still is today."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":310.221,"endTime":313.501,"body":"It's like sometimes you have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":310.221,"endTime":313.501,"body":"a good manager and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":313.561,"endTime":314.951,"body":"you don't have a good manager."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":314.951,"endTime":321.411,"body":"And there is kind of this like age"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":314.951,"endTime":321.411,"body":"old problem of Sometimes companies or"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":321.411,"endTime":324.941,"body":"people would take their best developer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":321.411,"endTime":324.941,"body":"and be like, you're the manager now"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":324.991,"endTime":326.251,"body":"because you are the best developer."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":326.251,"endTime":329.931,"body":"You're now the manager and you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":326.251,"endTime":329.931,"body":"going to lead a team of developers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":329.961,"endTime":332.521,"body":"And oftentimes that goes really bad."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":333.391,"endTime":337.851,"body":"it's because you're trying to get a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":333.391,"endTime":337.851,"body":"great doer and make them a manager."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":337.861,"endTime":341.83,"body":"And then also like doers and managers,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":337.861,"endTime":341.83,"body":"there's just this natural conflict."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":342.13,"endTime":344.57,"body":"Yeah, That's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":342.13,"endTime":344.57,"body":"classic engineering problem, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":344.87,"endTime":349.256,"body":"right, but now when I was"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":344.87,"endTime":349.256,"body":"seeing like the, one of our developers"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":349.306,"endTime":355.296,"body":"at LinearB managing these bots, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":349.306,"endTime":355.296,"body":"thought to myself, okay, we have"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":355.306,"endTime":360.796,"body":"one of our best engineers, who would"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":355.306,"endTime":360.796,"body":"never want to actually be a manager,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":360.866,"endTime":362.236,"body":"Like manage all the people stuff."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":362.236,"endTime":363.256,"body":"Don't want to do that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":363.856,"endTime":367.306,"body":"Actually managing bots"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":363.856,"endTime":367.306,"body":"really, really well."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":367.316,"endTime":371.356,"body":"So she was like, yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":367.316,"endTime":371.356,"body":"the doer through these bots."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":371.376,"endTime":374.036,"body":"I'm also the decision maker"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":371.376,"endTime":374.036,"body":"of what they're doing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":374.036,"endTime":376.466,"body":"And I'm getting a ton of work done."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":376.606,"endTime":379.856,"body":"Maybe at like 2x, 3x, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":376.606,"endTime":379.856,"body":"don't know, maybe even 10x."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":380.426,"endTime":382.396,"body":"And I'm like building a complete app."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":382.396,"endTime":386.376,"body":"So it's almost like, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":382.396,"endTime":386.376,"body":"wondering, maybe you can combine the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":386.386,"endTime":389.336,"body":"best of both worlds now within one."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":389.531,"endTime":391.141,"body":"Human, with many bots."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":391.925,"endTime":393.215,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":391.925,"endTime":393.215,"body":"what we're going to see."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":393.437,"endTime":396.917,"body":"way that you're describing it, maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":393.437,"endTime":396.917,"body":"someone who doesn't want to evolve into"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":396.917,"endTime":400.927,"body":"a manager role, they love being the doer,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":396.917,"endTime":400.927,"body":"that's why you have the manager tracks,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":400.927,"endTime":402.467,"body":"you have the staff tracks, and that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":402.477,"endTime":408.037,"body":"why those things are very separate in what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":402.477,"endTime":408.037,"body":"they do, because of the mentality of how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":408.257,"endTime":410.777,"body":"the folks within them approach their work."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":410.797,"endTime":415.507,"body":"But when maybe a lot of the issues"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":410.797,"endTime":415.507,"body":"that make it, difficult to become"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":415.507,"endTime":420.257,"body":"a good manager don't exist when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":415.507,"endTime":420.257,"body":"you're working with an AI agent or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":420.257,"endTime":424.397,"body":"an AI workflow, just because of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":420.257,"endTime":424.397,"body":"lack of all of the social everything"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":424.407,"endTime":425.647,"body":"that's hanging around it, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":425.647,"endTime":429.777,"body":"You can boil it down to something that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":425.647,"endTime":429.777,"body":"more straightforward and repeatable."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":429.957,"endTime":432.787,"body":"so then suddenly you get folks that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":429.957,"endTime":432.787,"body":"maybe don't have the traditional manager"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":432.787,"endTime":438.107,"body":"skills or the managerial output evolving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":432.787,"endTime":438.107,"body":"into those skills because they can do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":438.107,"endTime":440.057,"body":"so and it meets them at their level."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":441.048,"endTime":444.118,"body":"Yeah, it's just I know exac"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":441.048,"endTime":444.118,"body":"It's a little bit out there, but like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":444.118,"endTime":450.297,"body":"imagine One senior developer That's like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":444.118,"endTime":450.297,"body":"I'll just use our company for LinearB"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":450.707,"endTime":456.597,"body":"Yeah, I lead 18 bots I, I lead 3 teams"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":450.707,"endTime":456.597,"body":"of 6 But they're all, they're all bots,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":456.617,"endTime":458.727,"body":"so I work on three products in parallel."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":458.907,"endTime":460.697,"body":"And they, and they report to me."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":461.317,"endTime":464.347,"body":"It's like, that could be, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":461.317,"endTime":464.347,"body":"know, the world that we're going."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":464.347,"endTime":467.587,"body":"Instead of like, hey, I, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":464.347,"endTime":467.587,"body":"lead a group of 18 people."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":467.966,"endTime":468.316,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":468.356,"endTime":471.906,"body":"And what becomes important then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":468.356,"endTime":471.906,"body":"is managing all of that context."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":471.906,"endTime":476.036,"body":"You kind of become the living"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":471.906,"endTime":476.036,"body":"context for all of those workflows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":476.046,"endTime":480.256,"body":"They keep it aligned with other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":476.046,"endTime":480.256,"body":"co workers who also all have their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":480.256,"endTime":482.126,"body":"own little army of workflows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":482.426,"endTime":485.586,"body":"I think it's going to totally change"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":482.426,"endTime":485.586,"body":"how companies will even start to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":485.586,"endTime":487.176,"body":"structure themselves from the beginning."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":487.546,"endTime":491.226,"body":"We haven't even seen really what the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":487.546,"endTime":491.226,"body":"new structure of, you know, a, An"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.296,"endTime":495.726,"body":"AI native tech startup might look"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.296,"endTime":495.726,"body":"like in a year or two from now,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":495.976,"endTime":497.486,"body":"at least on the personnel side."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":498.085,"endTime":499.795,"body":"Yeah, pretty"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":498.085,"endTime":499.795,"body":"crazy to think about."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":500.095,"endTime":500.855,"body":"Very cool though."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":501.037,"endTime":504.847,"body":"we're talking about using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":501.037,"endTime":504.847,"body":"these tools, um, and about applying"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":504.857,"endTime":507.627,"body":"them to do wider level decision making."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":507.787,"endTime":511.047,"body":"Another really great thing that she"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":507.787,"endTime":511.047,"body":"called out is about not chasing after"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":511.047,"endTime":515.277,"body":"them per se, but really understanding your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":511.047,"endTime":515.277,"body":"goals and what you're trying to go for."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":515.467,"endTime":516.207,"body":"You know, what did you think?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":516.387,"endTime":517.027,"body":"Think of this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":517.028,"endTime":517.217,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":517.217,"endTime":517.407,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":517.488,"endTime":521.493,"body":"you know, you and I just talked"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":517.488,"endTime":521.493,"body":"about something kind of, maybe it's in"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":521.493,"endTime":525.933,"body":"the future and just in a little bit if"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":521.493,"endTime":525.933,"body":"it feels a little otherworldly, let's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":525.943,"endTime":527.933,"body":"bring it down to earth like right now."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":528.453,"endTime":530.303,"body":"I think she's absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":530.943,"endTime":535.543,"body":"From the customers that I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":530.943,"endTime":535.543,"body":"to, and this is the classic mistake"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":535.613,"endTime":540.063,"body":"in engineering, it's, hey, I want"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":535.613,"endTime":540.063,"body":"to go try a new technology just to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":540.073,"endTime":546.178,"body":"do so, but I don't know what output"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":540.073,"endTime":546.178,"body":"or outcome I'm actually looking for."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":546.178,"endTime":548.388,"body":"That's what I'm hearing when"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":546.178,"endTime":548.388,"body":"people are like, yeah, I just"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":548.388,"endTime":549.888,"body":"deployed Copilot everywhere."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":550.148,"endTime":552.308,"body":"Now my business is asking"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":550.148,"endTime":552.308,"body":"me what it did for me."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":552.308,"endTime":554.008,"body":"And I can't even answer that question."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":554.668,"endTime":556.548,"body":"That's way, way different."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":556.628,"endTime":560.218,"body":"And I'll just, again, use the LinearB"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":556.628,"endTime":560.218,"body":"example of saying, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":560.418,"endTime":565.438,"body":"I measured and I see I have a"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":560.418,"endTime":565.438,"body":"problem in my code review process."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":566.488,"endTime":570.658,"body":"I then went to my CTO and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":566.488,"endTime":570.658,"body":"said, Hey, look at this data."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":570.658,"endTime":573.668,"body":"We have a problem in the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":570.658,"endTime":573.668,"body":"way that we review code."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":573.938,"endTime":576.188,"body":"It's causing a big bottleneck for us."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":576.368,"endTime":580.988,"body":"I am now going to deploy LinearB AI Code"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":576.368,"endTime":580.988,"body":"Review or whatever code review you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":580.988,"endTime":587.138,"body":"going to use to solve that problem with"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":580.988,"endTime":587.138,"body":"AI and prove back to the business that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":587.418,"endTime":591.588,"body":"this was a good move because we gain"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":587.418,"endTime":591.588,"body":"productivity for all the engineers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":591.958,"endTime":593.348,"body":"Cause everyone's doing code review."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":594.518,"endTime":596.528,"body":"That's two different worlds, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":596.528,"endTime":600.078,"body":"One is like, I'm just trying stuff and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":596.528,"endTime":600.078,"body":"I'm kind of doing it willy nilly and I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":600.078,"endTime":603.998,"body":"hoping for a good result, but I can't"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":600.078,"endTime":603.998,"body":"even measure or say what I'm going for."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":604.308,"endTime":606.338,"body":"And the other one's super pinpointed."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":606.338,"endTime":608.118,"body":"I know the ROI I'm looking for."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":608.118,"endTime":609.378,"body":"I know the output I need."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":609.378,"endTime":611.288,"body":"I'm reporting it to the business."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":611.658,"endTime":614.388,"body":"I pick an AI tool that's"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":611.658,"endTime":614.388,"body":"really good at that thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":614.428,"endTime":617.318,"body":"That's like, I think high"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":614.428,"endTime":617.318,"body":"maturity, high responsibility."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":618.007,"endTime":620.667,"body":"Yeah, it really speaks to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":618.007,"endTime":620.667,"body":"like, you know, when you have that tool"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":620.667,"endTime":623.997,"body":"adoption, you need to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":620.667,"endTime":623.997,"body":"you're managing it well and picking things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":624.007,"endTime":628.427,"body":"that have high impact that are going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":624.007,"endTime":628.427,"body":"lead towards the outcomes you want and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":628.427,"endTime":629.897,"body":"don't necessarily play into the hype."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":630.067,"endTime":632.487,"body":"And so you have to understand up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":630.067,"endTime":632.487,"body":"front what you're trying to pinpoint."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":632.697,"endTime":635.067,"body":"That way you can pick up the right"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":632.697,"endTime":635.067,"body":"technology that's going to work for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":635.067,"endTime":637.396,"body":"you and still be able to move quickly."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":637.99,"endTime":641.64,"body":"exactly what we just said"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":637.99,"endTime":641.64,"body":"is what the best DevEx teams are doing."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":641.65,"endTime":646.27,"body":"Like the developer experience teams that"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":641.65,"endTime":646.27,"body":"I'm working with that I think, Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":646.27,"endTime":648.82,"body":"You're like leading edge"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":646.27,"endTime":648.82,"body":"is doing exactly that."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":649.27,"endTime":653.3,"body":"They pinpoint exactly where"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":649.27,"endTime":653.3,"body":"they're going to help developers."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":653.3,"endTime":657.13,"body":"They use AI or some type of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":653.3,"endTime":657.13,"body":"automation or bot to do so."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":657.55,"endTime":662.765,"body":"And then they report back on the outcome,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":657.55,"endTime":662.765,"body":"they can track it and even better than"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":662.765,"endTime":666.425,"body":"I can see, okay, they're starting to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":662.765,"endTime":666.425,"body":"put rules and governance around it and"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":666.425,"endTime":671.035,"body":"making it like in the workflow really"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":666.425,"endTime":671.035,"body":"really effective Like that's what killer"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":671.035,"endTime":673.435,"body":"elite DevEx looks like to me right now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":674.184,"endTime":676.954,"body":"And when you talk"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":674.184,"endTime":676.954,"body":"about these elite teams that you see"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":676.954,"endTime":680.264,"body":"and all the great things that they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":676.954,"endTime":680.264,"body":"doing, it kind of actually calls"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":680.274,"endTime":685.054,"body":"to me a little bit about what Dr."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":680.274,"endTime":685.054,"body":"Shourie was saying about, the lack of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":685.064,"endTime":690.104,"body":"general expertise and skills around"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":685.064,"endTime":690.104,"body":"this technology still for a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":690.124,"endTime":692.094,"body":"industry, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":690.124,"endTime":692.094,"body":"market that she's exposed to."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":692.094,"endTime":695.184,"body":"We're talking about IBM, so she"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":692.094,"endTime":695.184,"body":"has a really big surface area."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":695.354,"endTime":698.124,"body":"She had a survey that she did even,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":695.354,"endTime":698.124,"body":"and we're going to talk about it in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":698.124,"endTime":701.344,"body":"our interview with her, where she"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":698.124,"endTime":701.344,"body":"talked to over a thousand, uh, U. S."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":701.344,"endTime":704.864,"body":"software developers and found that,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":701.344,"endTime":704.864,"body":"you know, less than 25 percent,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":704.864,"endTime":709.324,"body":"or only about 25 percent of them"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":704.864,"endTime":709.324,"body":"actually felt like they had, a basic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":709.564,"endTime":712.594,"body":"level of AI comprehension, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":712.595,"endTime":715.563,"body":"And, and those are, these are folks"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":712.595,"endTime":715.563,"body":"that are actually building AI tools"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":715.563,"endTime":717.183,"body":"and implementing AI right now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":717.393,"endTime":721.443,"body":"Um, and so there's a, there's a really big"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":717.393,"endTime":721.443,"body":"skills gap, um, that she's calling out."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":722.344,"endTime":724.144,"body":"Yeah, first of"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":722.344,"endTime":724.144,"body":"all, I think it's really smart"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":724.194,"endTime":725.544,"body":"and I think it makes sense."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":725.614,"endTime":730.274,"body":"And I'm, I'm kind of asking myself"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":725.614,"endTime":730.274,"body":"like, is this any different than any"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":730.334,"endTime":733.034,"body":"other technology or skill set gain?"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":733.034,"endTime":736.844,"body":"Like, yeah, of course, everyone"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":733.034,"endTime":736.844,"body":"already said AI is changing the world."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":736.854,"endTime":743.244,"body":"That's impact, but that's not different"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":736.854,"endTime":743.244,"body":"than, Hey, I need to learn how to use"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":743.294,"endTime":745.124,"body":"AI just like any other technology."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":745.366,"endTime":747.274,"body":"Technology skill that I need to learn."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":747.274,"endTime":750.874,"body":"And I think like the gap is real"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":747.274,"endTime":750.874,"body":"and I'm sure there's probably"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":750.874,"endTime":754.774,"body":"already companies doing trainings"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":750.874,"endTime":754.774,"body":"on it or prompt engineering."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":754.774,"endTime":758.274,"body":"I hear that terminology all the time,"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":754.774,"endTime":758.274,"body":"but basically it's at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":758.274,"endTime":762.194,"body":"day is let me coach you on how to"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":758.274,"endTime":762.194,"body":"use this AI stuff to make yourself"},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":762.194,"endTime":763.804,"body":"more productive, grow your career."},{"speaker":"Dan Lines","startTime":763.804,"endTime":765.364,"body":"I think it's the same as anything else."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":765.987,"endTime":766.277,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":766.317,"endTime":770.057,"body":"Ultimately it's just going to demand"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":766.317,"endTime":770.057,"body":"a new skill set and an understanding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":770.057,"endTime":771.167,"body":"of what those skills need to be."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":771.627,"endTime":774.447,"body":"so it goes back to everything that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":771.627,"endTime":774.447,"body":"she said and what we're going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":774.447,"endTime":777.287,"body":"talk about in just a moment, all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":774.447,"endTime":777.287,"body":"the focus that you can get from AI."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":777.792,"endTime":782.212,"body":"And so after the break, we're bringing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":777.792,"endTime":782.212,"body":"Dr. Maryam Ashoori on the show."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":782.532,"endTime":786.222,"body":"You know, we recently discussed on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":782.532,"endTime":786.222,"body":"Dev Interrupted, how IBM is shattering"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":786.222,"endTime":788.282,"body":"market expectations around Gen AI."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":788.552,"endTime":792.042,"body":"And after IBM's Q4 earning results,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":788.552,"endTime":792.042,"body":"shares of the tech company, they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":792.042,"endTime":794.632,"body":"jumped by 13 percent in just one day."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":795.052,"endTime":798.932,"body":"And did you know that a staggering"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":795.052,"endTime":798.932,"body":"80 percent of IBM's tech revenue"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":798.942,"endTime":802.597,"body":"actually comes from Consulting,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":798.942,"endTime":802.597,"body":"talking one on one with software"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":802.607,"endTime":803.907,"body":"developers about their problems."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":804.147,"endTime":807.107,"body":"And you're about to get a slice"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":804.147,"endTime":807.107,"body":"of that insight for free right"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":807.107,"endTime":808.717,"body":"here, now on Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":808.727,"endTime":810.067,"body":"So you don't want to miss this one."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":813.792,"endTime":815.162,"body":"Let's talk"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":813.792,"endTime":815.162,"body":"about something that's been on"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":815.212,"endTime":816.972,"body":"every engineering leader's mind."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":816.972,"endTime":820.572,"body":"How do you measure success"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":816.972,"endTime":820.572,"body":"beyond just Dora metrics?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":821.342,"endTime":825.672,"body":"That's exactly what LinearB tackles"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":821.342,"endTime":825.672,"body":"in their latest guide on how top teams"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":825.672,"endTime":827.502,"body":"track developer access beyond Dora."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":828.106,"endTime":833.126,"body":"you're relying on deployment frequency and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":828.106,"endTime":833.126,"body":"lead time or cycle time, you're missing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":833.136,"endTime":836.706,"body":"the full picture of how engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":833.136,"endTime":836.706,"body":"actually drives business impact."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":837.176,"endTime":839.896,"body":"This guide breaks down real"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":837.176,"endTime":839.896,"body":"world metrics that matter."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":840.046,"endTime":844.036,"body":"Stuff like developer satisfaction,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":840.046,"endTime":844.036,"body":"cognitive load, and engineering"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":844.056,"endTime":846.176,"body":"impact beyond just shipping fast."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":846.886,"endTime":849.916,"body":"Because what's the point of going fast"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":846.886,"endTime":849.916,"body":"if you can't see where you're going?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":850.416,"endTime":854.256,"body":"If you're serious about improving"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":850.416,"endTime":854.256,"body":"your team, go grab your free copy now."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":854.316,"endTime":855.626,"body":"The link's in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":858.456,"endTime":862.106,"body":"I'm delighted to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":858.456,"endTime":862.106,"body":"joined by Dr. Maryam Ashoori of IBM."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":862.566,"endTime":864.216,"body":"Dr. Ashoori, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":864.865,"endTime":866.215,"body":"Thanks"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":864.865,"endTime":866.215,"body":"for having me, Andrew."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":866.596,"endTime":867.296,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":867.446,"endTime":871.386,"body":"I want to start by sharing your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":867.446,"endTime":871.386,"body":"awesome background with our audience."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":871.856,"endTime":876.139,"body":"You're the Senior Director of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":871.856,"endTime":876.139,"body":"Product Management for WatsonX IBM."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":876.509,"endTime":880.369,"body":"Where you're focusing on simplifying"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":876.509,"endTime":880.369,"body":"the AI development life cycle, expanding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":880.439,"endTime":882.289,"body":"it for enterprise applications."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":882.589,"endTime":886.379,"body":"Your background includes leading"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":882.589,"endTime":886.379,"body":"engineering at Lyft bikes and scooters,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":886.659,"endTime":891.289,"body":"pioneering user experience design for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":886.659,"endTime":891.289,"body":"AI and even quantum technologies at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":891.289,"endTime":896.829,"body":"IBM research, and you hold a PhD in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":891.289,"endTime":896.829,"body":"systems design engineering, two master's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":896.829,"endTime":899.069,"body":"degrees in artificial intelligence."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":899.814,"endTime":903.564,"body":"You're on a board seat for the Virtual"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":899.814,"endTime":903.564,"body":"Science Teachers, which is a non profit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":903.564,"endTime":907.674,"body":"for the mission of making science"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":903.564,"endTime":907.674,"body":"learning equitable and providing free"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":907.674,"endTime":909.674,"body":"resources for teachers and students."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":910.014,"endTime":913.554,"body":"And you're an adjunct professor at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":910.014,"endTime":913.554,"body":"Waterloo, and I really don't know how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":913.554,"endTime":915.164,"body":"you find the time to do all of that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":915.174,"endTime":919.069,"body":"That's an incredible resume, and we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":915.174,"endTime":919.069,"body":"really appreciative of your time today."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":919.884,"endTime":921.044,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":921.415,"endTime":923.755,"body":"Of course, as a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":921.415,"endTime":923.755,"body":"former teacher, I'm really excited"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":923.755,"endTime":927.665,"body":"about your mission to make science"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":923.755,"endTime":927.665,"body":"education engaging and accessible,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":927.905,"endTime":931.435,"body":"and today has lots in store with us,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":927.905,"endTime":931.435,"body":"so I'm just going to jump right in."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":931.965,"endTime":932.365,"body":"One of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":932.365,"endTime":938.015,"body":"your biggest focuses is on simplifying"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":932.365,"endTime":938.015,"body":"the AI stack for the enterprise."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":938.445,"endTime":943.185,"body":"Why is this so important, and what are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":938.445,"endTime":943.185,"body":"the biggest hurdles that we're facing?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":944.609,"endTime":947.799,"body":"Listen, there's been"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":944.609,"endTime":947.799,"body":"a lot of excitement in the market"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":948.199,"endTime":952.609,"body":"over the past 18 months around"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":948.199,"endTime":952.609,"body":"generative AI, but the market is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":952.619,"endTime":957.069,"body":"overlooking the complexity of what it"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":952.619,"endTime":957.069,"body":"takes to deliver on that potential."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":957.609,"endTime":962.809,"body":"Behind every intuitive application,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":957.609,"endTime":962.809,"body":"there exists an immensely complicated"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":962.829,"endTime":968.404,"body":"AI stack that our developers must master"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":962.829,"endTime":968.404,"body":"and take advantage of and harness."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":968.794,"endTime":970.404,"body":"To unlock that value, right?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":970.774,"endTime":975.614,"body":"So because of that, we've been focusing"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":970.774,"endTime":975.614,"body":"and looking into how can we simplify"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":975.614,"endTime":977.524,"body":"this AI stack for our developers?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":977.554,"endTime":980.374,"body":"This is an area that is evolving rapidly."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":980.624,"endTime":983.154,"body":"There are many tools popping up every day."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":983.534,"endTime":987.859,"body":"there is a lack of, uh, AI skills for"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":983.534,"endTime":987.859,"body":"our developers that we can talk about."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":988.159,"endTime":993.199,"body":"And what is the role of IBM in"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":988.159,"endTime":993.199,"body":"terms of simplifying this AI stack?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":993.209,"endTime":998.129,"body":"And we looked into our WatsonX portfolio,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":993.209,"endTime":998.129,"body":"starting with that, which is the core IBM"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":998.129,"endTime":1003.419,"body":"AI engine for enterprises to overcome some"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":998.129,"endTime":1003.419,"body":"of these existing development challenges."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1003.975,"endTime":1007.315,"body":"Okay, so WatsonX is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1003.975,"endTime":1007.315,"body":"focused on that entire tech stack"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1007.315,"endTime":1009.275,"body":"and not just the application layer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1009.275,"endTime":1012.365,"body":"And we certainly hear a lot from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1009.275,"endTime":1012.365,"body":"how people are adopting it that it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1012.535,"endTime":1016.335,"body":"kind of becomes a Jenga tower of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1012.535,"endTime":1016.335,"body":"systems and designs that combine and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1016.515,"endTime":1019.045,"body":"you might add or remove things and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1016.515,"endTime":1019.045,"body":"you're afraid it's going to fall."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1019.055,"endTime":1021.895,"body":"And we're moving towards, uh, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1019.055,"endTime":1021.895,"body":"know, starting to standardize this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1021.895,"endTime":1023.835,"body":"but it's still very early days."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1024.125,"endTime":1028.975,"body":"So what does it mean that WatsonX"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1024.125,"endTime":1028.975,"body":"is focusing on that entire tech"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1028.975,"endTime":1032.575,"body":"stack versus the application layer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1028.975,"endTime":1032.575,"body":"we might be thinking of most days?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1033.189,"endTime":1036.399,"body":"Yeah, if you think"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1033.189,"endTime":1036.399,"body":"about a year ago, what excited the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1036.409,"endTime":1040.869,"body":"market about GenAI was the idea"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1036.409,"endTime":1040.869,"body":"of an accelerated delivery and"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1040.869,"endTime":1042.939,"body":"development of enterprise application."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1043.269,"endTime":1047.809,"body":"Historically, with traditional ML, the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1043.269,"endTime":1047.809,"body":"AI lifecycle was starting from data."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1047.879,"endTime":1052.019,"body":"So basically, enterprises collect a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1047.879,"endTime":1052.019,"body":"bunch of data and then a data scientist"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1052.019,"endTime":1056.399,"body":"or ML engineer goes in, creates a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1052.019,"endTime":1056.399,"body":"model, they train the model, and then"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1056.679,"endTime":1061.584,"body":"they hand it off to developers to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1056.679,"endTime":1061.584,"body":"incorporate that in their application."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1061.584,"endTime":1068.504,"body":"With generative AI, in theory, a developer"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1061.584,"endTime":1068.504,"body":"in less than five minutes can use one"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1068.504,"endTime":1073.154,"body":"of the LLMs that are hosted somewhere"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1068.504,"endTime":1073.154,"body":"behind an API endpoint and bring those"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1073.184,"endTime":1075.854,"body":"AI capabilities into their applications."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1076.124,"endTime":1083.169,"body":"So, the LLMs Impact and, um, potential"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1076.124,"endTime":1083.169,"body":"of this technology is, significant."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1084.039,"endTime":1088.029,"body":"That five minutes access to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1084.039,"endTime":1088.029,"body":"the model that is hosted behind"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1088.029,"endTime":1090.749,"body":"API gives you an aha moment."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1091.009,"endTime":1095.931,"body":"An initial wow factor that we saw"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1091.009,"endTime":1095.931,"body":"the market Earning for, or looking"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1095.931,"endTime":1100.081,"body":"for, when they were, exploring"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1095.931,"endTime":1100.081,"body":"Gen AI and investigating Gen AI."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1100.421,"endTime":1103.761,"body":"But the majority of the market"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1100.421,"endTime":1103.761,"body":"at this point has moved to, from"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1103.761,"endTime":1108.011,"body":"that exploration to production and"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1103.761,"endTime":1108.011,"body":"scale, where the story is different."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1108.436,"endTime":1111.616,"body":"When you go to production and"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1108.436,"endTime":1111.616,"body":"at the scale of enterprise,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1111.676,"endTime":1113.686,"body":"optimization comes into the play."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1113.856,"endTime":1115.306,"body":"What model are you using?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1115.386,"endTime":1116.866,"body":"What is the size of the model?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1117.106,"endTime":1121.066,"body":"The largest general purpose model"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1117.106,"endTime":1121.066,"body":"might be very powerful for a wide"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1121.066,"endTime":1125.596,"body":"range of downstream use cases, but"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1121.066,"endTime":1125.596,"body":"may not be necessarily the best option"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1125.606,"endTime":1126.831,"body":"in terms of being cost effective."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1126.831,"endTime":1133.971,"body":"So if developers really want to capitalize"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1126.831,"endTime":1133.971,"body":"and optimize their investments on the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1134.224,"endTime":1138.644,"body":"AI, they need to go down the stack, not"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1134.224,"endTime":1138.644,"body":"just the application layer, to be able"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1138.644,"endTime":1142.464,"body":"to gain control and optimize the stack."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1142.524,"endTime":1146.734,"body":"And because of this reason, we've been"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1142.524,"endTime":1146.734,"body":"also looking into the entire stack, not"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1146.734,"endTime":1151.649,"body":"just the application layer, to see what"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1146.734,"endTime":1151.649,"body":"are the points that we can help, And make"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1151.649,"endTime":1157.459,"body":"available to the developers to help them"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1151.649,"endTime":1157.459,"body":"optimize every layer and build up on them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1158.43,"endTime":1158.78,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1158.79,"endTime":1162.67,"body":"So it's about using it as a tool at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1158.79,"endTime":1162.67,"body":"all different parts of the software"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1162.67,"endTime":1167.91,"body":"development lifecycle and the process of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1162.67,"endTime":1167.91,"body":"providing good software at scale and using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1167.92,"endTime":1172.81,"body":"AI as a tool and a lens to really get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1167.92,"endTime":1172.81,"body":"in there and solve those hard problems."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1173.18,"endTime":1176.88,"body":"you've done an exploration about the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1173.18,"endTime":1176.88,"body":"complexities of generative AI and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1176.88,"endTime":1180.54,"body":"enterprise and you spoke with over a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1176.88,"endTime":1180.54,"body":"thousand developers and uncovered some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1180.54,"endTime":1184.81,"body":"really interesting challenges recently"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1180.54,"endTime":1184.81,"body":"that you talked about in a LinkedIn post."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1185.2,"endTime":1187.94,"body":"Can you elaborate on some of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1185.2,"endTime":1187.94,"body":"these findings for our listeners?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1188.554,"endTime":1192.894,"body":"Yes, we recently"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1188.554,"endTime":1192.894,"body":"surveyed about 1, 000 developers in"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1192.894,"endTime":1196.994,"body":"the U. S. who are charged with building"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1192.894,"endTime":1196.994,"body":"AI applications for the enterprise."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1197.424,"endTime":1200.824,"body":"Survey participants were coming"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1197.424,"endTime":1200.824,"body":"from a range of development roles,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1200.824,"endTime":1205.624,"body":"including application developer,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1200.824,"endTime":1205.624,"body":"software engineer, Data scientists."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1205.984,"endTime":1210.144,"body":"And what we've heard from them was"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1205.984,"endTime":1210.144,"body":"actually reinforcing the challenges"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1210.144,"endTime":1213.454,"body":"that we've been also seeing in the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1210.144,"endTime":1213.454,"body":"market and hearing from enterprises."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1213.814,"endTime":1216.824,"body":"The top two that I like to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1213.814,"endTime":1216.824,"body":"highlight and call out here."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1216.904,"endTime":1220.164,"body":"One is the rapidly evolving market."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1220.254,"endTime":1223.674,"body":"Like on a daily basis, a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1220.254,"endTime":1223.674,"body":"piece of technology is popping"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1224.254,"endTime":1226.374,"body":"up, a new tool, a new model."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1226.814,"endTime":1232.184,"body":"and then just paired these rapid"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1226.814,"endTime":1232.184,"body":"excitement and the speed of innovation."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1232.449,"endTime":1238.109,"body":"With the skill level of the developers,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1232.449,"endTime":1238.109,"body":"which is my really the second point that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1238.109,"endTime":1244.009,"body":"makes the whole application development"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1238.109,"endTime":1244.009,"body":"extremely complicated and frustrating"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1244.079,"endTime":1246.179,"body":"experience for some of the developers."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1246.559,"endTime":1250.939,"body":"On one side, the complexity is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1246.559,"endTime":1250.939,"body":"expanding on the day to day basis."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1250.979,"endTime":1255.359,"body":"On the other side, if you look into"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1250.979,"endTime":1255.359,"body":"who is, who are those developers,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1255.559,"endTime":1261.186,"body":"there is a wide range of difference in"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1255.559,"endTime":1261.186,"body":"terms of their generative AI skills."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1261.986,"endTime":1267.886,"body":"The developers that we talked about too,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1261.986,"endTime":1267.886,"body":"it's interesting to see that I would"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1267.886,"endTime":1275.696,"body":"say the app developers in our audience,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1267.886,"endTime":1275.696,"body":"only 25 percent of those app developers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1275.846,"endTime":1281.416,"body":"self associated themselves with, uh,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1275.846,"endTime":1281.416,"body":"generative AI knowledge and expertise."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1281.871,"endTime":1284.661,"body":"25 percent of application developers."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1284.691,"endTime":1285.081,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1285.091,"endTime":1286.031,"body":"That's a huge number."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1286.031,"endTime":1290.901,"body":"And these application developers are all"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1286.031,"endTime":1290.901,"body":"building AI applications for enterprise."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1291.211,"endTime":1296.981,"body":"So just think about this skill set,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1291.211,"endTime":1296.981,"body":"the need for simplicity to understand"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1296.981,"endTime":1302.781,"body":"the AI concepts, the expectations"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1296.981,"endTime":1302.781,"body":"from the market to go down this stack,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1302.851,"endTime":1308.671,"body":"really optimize this stack, and deliver"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1302.851,"endTime":1308.671,"body":"on the potential of generative AI"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1308.671,"endTime":1310.791,"body":"puts a lot of burden on developers."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1311.326,"endTime":1313.786,"body":"And that's one of the highlights"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1311.326,"endTime":1313.786,"body":"that we saw on the survey."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1314.242,"endTime":1317.602,"body":"A lot of burden, a lot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1314.242,"endTime":1317.602,"body":"of pressure, and it puts them in this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1317.602,"endTime":1321.382,"body":"really difficult spot where they have to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1317.602,"endTime":1321.382,"body":"take advantage of the productivity gains"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1321.382,"endTime":1323.292,"body":"or otherwise start exploring AI now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1323.322,"endTime":1328.892,"body":"They can't afford to wait, but they lack"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1323.322,"endTime":1328.892,"body":"maybe the understanding or a way forward"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1328.912,"endTime":1330.662,"body":"or a way of taking that first step."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1330.832,"endTime":1334.872,"body":"And that comes to a gap in skills,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1330.832,"endTime":1334.872,"body":"and that might also come from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1334.873,"endTime":1337.252,"body":"a sense of being overwhelmed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1337.582,"endTime":1339.972,"body":"You hit on a really good point"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1337.582,"endTime":1339.972,"body":"that it's evolving every day."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1340.272,"endTime":1343.782,"body":"Every day you can go on product hunt"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1340.272,"endTime":1343.782,"body":"and find a new litany of AI powered"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1343.782,"endTime":1345.322,"body":"tools that you could start exploring."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1345.662,"endTime":1349.649,"body":"And the implications of this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1345.662,"endTime":1349.649,"body":"that there's a lot of tool sprawl."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1349.704,"endTime":1353.424,"body":"Happening right now for developers that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1349.704,"endTime":1353.424,"body":"are building any kind of application."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1353.444,"endTime":1355.044,"body":"It doesn't have to be AI powered."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1355.294,"endTime":1358.004,"body":"It could be a tool that they've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1355.294,"endTime":1358.004,"body":"been using since the beginning"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1358.004,"endTime":1359.274,"body":"of software development for them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1359.274,"endTime":1364.754,"body":"And now suddenly it has AI capabilities"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1359.274,"endTime":1364.754,"body":"and harnessing and using those tools."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1364.934,"endTime":1370.244,"body":"It's very different from being able to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1364.934,"endTime":1370.244,"body":"apply them into your entire tech stack."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1370.434,"endTime":1375.144,"body":"And so how can developers effectively"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1370.434,"endTime":1375.144,"body":"manage the tool sprawl that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1375.144,"endTime":1377.264,"body":"we're all experiencing right now?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1377.274,"endTime":1378.284,"body":"What's the strategy?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1379.118,"endTime":1383.348,"body":"Well, developers, they"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1379.118,"endTime":1383.348,"body":"need to master a wide range of tools."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1383.628,"endTime":1387.548,"body":"Like the developers that we talked about,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1383.628,"endTime":1387.548,"body":"in average, they are using between 5"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1387.578,"endTime":1390.118,"body":"to 15 tools to create AI applications."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1390.188,"endTime":1394.068,"body":"So, 5 to 15 tools that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1390.188,"endTime":1394.068,"body":"are evolving every day."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1394.378,"endTime":1399.398,"body":"And a small percentage of them, stated"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1394.378,"endTime":1399.398,"body":"that they are willing to spend more"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1399.398,"endTime":1402.098,"body":"than two hours in learning a new tool."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1403.078,"endTime":1409.948,"body":"So limited time, evolving market, a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1403.078,"endTime":1409.948,"body":"series of increasing number of, tools"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1409.988,"endTime":1413.758,"body":"that are available to them to learn"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1409.988,"endTime":1413.758,"body":"and figure out if that's the tool"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1413.758,"endTime":1415.448,"body":"that they want to integrate or not."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1415.508,"endTime":1422.308,"body":"And then the burden of integration, with"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1415.508,"endTime":1422.308,"body":"an evolving stack to their legacy systems."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1422.378,"endTime":1423.848,"body":"So that's what they are dealing with."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1424.928,"endTime":1428.628,"body":"parallel to this, also the developers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1424.928,"endTime":1428.628,"body":"that we talked about focused on"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1428.638,"endTime":1433.718,"body":"enterprise, they always stated the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1428.638,"endTime":1433.718,"body":"need for performance, flexibility,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1433.798,"endTime":1436.292,"body":"ease of use and integration as."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1436.683,"endTime":1440.123,"body":"some of the top essential"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1436.683,"endTime":1440.123,"body":"qualities that they are expecting"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1440.123,"endTime":1441.583,"body":"from AI development tools."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1441.963,"endTime":1446.993,"body":"But then if you look into enterprise"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1441.963,"endTime":1446.993,"body":"tools, these four characteristics"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1447.013,"endTime":1449.493,"body":"are the rarest to find, right?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1449.723,"endTime":1454.613,"body":"So not available in the market,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1449.723,"endTime":1454.613,"body":"evolving, and a number of tools"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1454.613,"endTime":1455.843,"body":"that are emerging every day."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1456.406,"endTime":1461.626,"body":"So because of that, we've been looking"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1456.406,"endTime":1461.626,"body":"into our own stack, figuring out how to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1462.211,"endTime":1468.451,"body":"Simplify the stack in a sense that, we"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1462.211,"endTime":1468.451,"body":"are offering not just point solutions to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1468.451,"endTime":1474.331,"body":"these developers as an integrated stack,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1468.451,"endTime":1474.331,"body":"providing guidance in terms of what are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1474.331,"endTime":1478.891,"body":"the available choices and options to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1474.331,"endTime":1478.891,"body":"you at every level of the stack, and"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1478.901,"endTime":1484.436,"body":"some sort of guidance on where to pick"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1478.901,"endTime":1484.436,"body":"what, and trying to abstract the stack."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1484.716,"endTime":1490.136,"body":"The development from the underlying AI"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1484.716,"endTime":1490.136,"body":"frameworks and models, so sort of hiding"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1490.136,"endTime":1494.916,"body":"away the complexity of what's going on"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1490.136,"endTime":1494.916,"body":"behind the scene, but helping you to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1494.916,"endTime":1500.316,"body":"pick the right model and an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1494.916,"endTime":1500.316,"body":"to customize the solution that you need,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1500.316,"endTime":1503.306,"body":"which is really what the developers need."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1503.777,"endTime":1506.137,"body":"Right, and that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1503.777,"endTime":1506.137,"body":"really core to the enterprise problem"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1506.137,"endTime":1509.727,"body":"as well, because you have to scale"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1506.137,"endTime":1509.727,"body":"it, but it has to uniquely fit your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1509.727,"endTime":1514.427,"body":"organization like a glove, so that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1509.727,"endTime":1514.427,"body":"it's accurate, so it's compliant even"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1514.437,"endTime":1518.717,"body":"in some cases, and you can actually"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1514.437,"endTime":1518.717,"body":"count on it to help get your work done."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1519.147,"endTime":1521.637,"body":"When it comes to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1519.147,"endTime":1521.637,"body":"enterprise, you have the scale that you"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1521.637,"endTime":1526.047,"body":"mentioned, you have the regulations,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1521.637,"endTime":1526.047,"body":"especially in highly regulated industries"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1526.047,"endTime":1530.807,"body":"like finance, health care, insurance,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1526.047,"endTime":1530.807,"body":"like you can just put something out there"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1530.807,"endTime":1536.597,"body":"that you can trace or have transparency"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1530.807,"endTime":1536.597,"body":"and traceability onto how it's performed,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1536.913,"endTime":1538.513,"body":"which makes it even more difficult."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1538.958,"endTime":1543.948,"body":"And last but not least is the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1538.958,"endTime":1543.948,"body":"complicated, often legacy systems that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1543.958,"endTime":1548.268,"body":"enterprise has that now needs to be"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1543.958,"endTime":1548.268,"body":"integrated with the modern AI stack."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1548.914,"endTime":1552.784,"body":"Those legacy systems are,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1548.914,"endTime":1552.784,"body":"I think, the killer part of this equation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1553.424,"endTime":1556.614,"body":"The old hulking machines that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1553.424,"endTime":1556.614,"body":"you're carrying from the past, those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1556.614,"endTime":1560.424,"body":"algorithms maybe written in a long"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1556.614,"endTime":1560.424,"body":"dead language that you only have a few"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1560.424,"endTime":1562.244,"body":"experts for within your company now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1562.514,"endTime":1564.994,"body":"Those are the things that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1562.514,"endTime":1564.994,"body":"you have to also reimagine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1565.084,"endTime":1568.554,"body":"When you think about reimagining"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1565.084,"endTime":1568.554,"body":"enterprise with AI, which"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1568.764,"endTime":1572.324,"body":"is a very difficult kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1568.764,"endTime":1572.324,"body":"obstacle to kind of cross."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1572.524,"endTime":1575.174,"body":"And you mentioned that, like, when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1572.524,"endTime":1575.174,"body":"developers look for tools that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1575.174,"endTime":1578.144,"body":"they use, and this is kind of a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1575.174,"endTime":1578.144,"body":"universal thing for tool adoption, is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1578.144,"endTime":1580.264,"body":"they're looking for ease of mastery."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1580.304,"endTime":1584.084,"body":"They want to get good at it, get better"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1580.304,"endTime":1584.084,"body":"at it, and become an expert in it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1584.354,"endTime":1587.344,"body":"They want performance and flexibility,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1584.354,"endTime":1587.344,"body":"the ease of use, and they want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1587.344,"endTime":1591.424,"body":"that, integration, the openness to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1587.344,"endTime":1591.424,"body":"make it do what they want to do."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1591.484,"endTime":1596.184,"body":"And when you talk about AI and how it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1591.484,"endTime":1596.184,"body":"kind of like scalable, like thinking and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1596.184,"endTime":1600.554,"body":"computational like output of an idea,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1596.184,"endTime":1600.554,"body":"then when you combine it with these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1600.564,"endTime":1602.364,"body":"things of like, oh, is it easy to master?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1602.364,"endTime":1603.144,"body":"Is it performant?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1603.154,"endTime":1603.914,"body":"Is it flexible?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1603.954,"endTime":1606.544,"body":"It becomes uniquely tied to the use cases."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1607.654,"endTime":1610.584,"body":"So everyone is learning in these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1607.654,"endTime":1610.584,"body":"little silos of how to use AI"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1610.594,"endTime":1612.174,"body":"for their specific use case."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1612.434,"endTime":1616.094,"body":"And it's about surfacing those universal"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1612.434,"endTime":1616.094,"body":"truths in AI application development,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1616.324,"endTime":1617.884,"body":"bringing it into your tech stack."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1618.234,"endTime":1622.774,"body":"And so how do you expect that AI developer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1618.234,"endTime":1622.774,"body":"experience to change in the coming year?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1623.603,"endTime":1626.813,"body":"I would say the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1623.603,"endTime":1626.813,"body":"highlight of that is productivity."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1627.453,"endTime":1630.673,"body":"99 percent of the developers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1627.453,"endTime":1630.673,"body":"that we talked to and we"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1630.673,"endTime":1631.763,"body":"surveyed used this technology."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1632.523,"endTime":1636.761,"body":"Cognitive, and really coding"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1632.523,"endTime":1636.761,"body":"assistance in some capacity."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1637.341,"endTime":1641.571,"body":"So this is like using AI for code"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1637.341,"endTime":1641.571,"body":"generation, code explanation, even"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1641.571,"endTime":1646.331,"body":"using AI for root cause analysis,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1641.571,"endTime":1646.331,"body":"figuring out what are the root"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1646.361,"endTime":1648.341,"body":"cause of the issues and bugs."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1648.541,"endTime":1651.721,"body":"Fixes, like recommendations"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1648.541,"endTime":1651.721,"body":"on how to optimize the code."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1652.161,"endTime":1655.601,"body":"that's what we have been"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1652.161,"endTime":1655.601,"body":"seeing the developers using."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1655.941,"endTime":1660.327,"body":"we were told by the developers, the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1655.941,"endTime":1660.327,"body":"survey that we did, that, it typically"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1660.327,"endTime":1665.007,"body":"saves them three hours or more"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1660.327,"endTime":1665.007,"body":"per day for a typical development."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1665.377,"endTime":1669.597,"body":"Just imagine the efficiency that a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1665.377,"endTime":1669.597,"body":"developer software engineer can take"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1669.717,"endTime":1673.367,"body":"out of using coding assistant tools to."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1673.922,"endTime":1678.969,"body":"Generate, expand the reach of what"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1673.922,"endTime":1678.969,"body":"the application can do because now"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1678.999,"endTime":1683.749,"body":"instead of spending the time on figuring"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1678.999,"endTime":1683.749,"body":"out the root cause of a bug and bug"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1683.749,"endTime":1688.399,"body":"fixes, the recommendations made to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1683.749,"endTime":1688.399,"body":"the developers, they can just approve"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1688.609,"endTime":1693.469,"body":"and move on and spend that energy on"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1688.609,"endTime":1693.469,"body":"thinking about how to optimize further"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1693.469,"endTime":1699.171,"body":"or add new features, or reach, uh,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1693.469,"endTime":1699.171,"body":"Wider audience with a better experience."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1699.381,"endTime":1706.321,"body":"So I would expect the coding assistants"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1699.381,"endTime":1706.321,"body":"to continue evolving and, um, massively"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1706.331,"endTime":1708.891,"body":"change the experience of AI developers."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1709.172,"endTime":1713.931,"body":"one thing that I keep thinking about,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1709.172,"endTime":1713.931,"body":"about how the software engineers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1713.931,"endTime":1718.932,"body":"roles and responsibilities are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1713.931,"endTime":1718.932,"body":"going to be changed in the future is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1718.932,"endTime":1723.68,"body":"software engineers that are using code"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1718.932,"endTime":1723.68,"body":"assistants, are using AI, for code"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1723.68,"endTime":1727.843,"body":"development are going to replace software"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1723.68,"endTime":1727.843,"body":"engineers that are not using AI today."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1728.569,"endTime":1728.969,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1729.039,"endTime":1733.879,"body":"So you're hitting on a really good point"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1729.039,"endTime":1733.879,"body":"about, how software developers are using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1733.899,"endTime":1736.809,"body":"AI now in this cognitive partner, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1736.809,"endTime":1740.629,"body":"When creating code, when working with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1736.809,"endTime":1740.629,"body":"code, you pointed out a really key Key"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1740.629,"endTime":1744.379,"body":"thing of like, asking it for a code"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1740.629,"endTime":1744.379,"body":"review, or to explain what a chunk of code"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1744.379,"endTime":1746.049,"body":"is doing, or otherwise to talk with you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1746.049,"endTime":1749.719,"body":"And this is, this is like the rubber"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1746.049,"endTime":1749.719,"body":"ducking experience brought to life."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1749.749,"endTime":1752.669,"body":"engineers always have this famous"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1749.749,"endTime":1752.669,"body":"metaphor of, you know, talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1752.669,"endTime":1755.259,"body":"to the rubber duck, explain every"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1752.669,"endTime":1755.259,"body":"line of your code to the duck."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1755.459,"endTime":1758.279,"body":"And if it makes sense out loud,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1755.459,"endTime":1758.279,"body":"then that's like one extra"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1758.289,"endTime":1760.019,"body":"step of verifying your work."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1760.019,"endTime":1763.319,"body":"And in this case, the AI is kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1760.019,"endTime":1763.319,"body":"of serving as that rubber duck."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1763.349,"endTime":1766.469,"body":"And it's talking back to you, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1763.349,"endTime":1766.469,"body":"making assessments and judgments on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1766.469,"endTime":1767.979,"body":"the feedback, what it knows about."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1768.284,"endTime":1772.724,"body":"You know, your enterprise and what your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1768.284,"endTime":1772.724,"body":"outputs and impact and goals should be."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1772.942,"endTime":1775.464,"body":"and so, what you're hitting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1772.942,"endTime":1775.464,"body":"on is a very good point."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1775.524,"endTime":1778.454,"body":"That the engineers and everyone"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1775.524,"endTime":1778.454,"body":"who's using those skills, those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1778.454,"endTime":1779.624,"body":"are the skills of the future."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1779.944,"endTime":1783.064,"body":"The skills of an engineer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1779.944,"endTime":1783.064,"body":"isn't solely in code creation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1783.074,"endTime":1788.754,"body":"It's also going to be being a mini manager"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1783.074,"endTime":1788.754,"body":"of AI systems, of AI tools, and having"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1788.754,"endTime":1793.124,"body":"the output of maybe even a small team when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1788.754,"endTime":1793.124,"body":"combining all of those things together."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1793.284,"endTime":1794.344,"body":"that they're orchestrating."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1794.354,"endTime":1800.324,"body":"So now we're talking about developers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1794.354,"endTime":1800.324,"body":"having to build skills and being like a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1800.334,"endTime":1802.574,"body":"manager for AI in many, in many sense."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1802.886,"endTime":1807.496,"body":"So how can an engineering team or an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1802.886,"endTime":1807.496,"body":"individual engineer stay ahead of that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1807.496,"endTime":1812.776,"body":"curve and adopt that tooling in a way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1807.496,"endTime":1812.776,"body":"that's going to remain relevant over time?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1812.786,"endTime":1815.526,"body":"Do you think that means that they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1812.786,"endTime":1815.526,"body":"need to become like a manager?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1815.616,"endTime":1817.716,"body":"And think like a manager by default."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1817.966,"endTime":1820.306,"body":"How does it change the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1817.966,"endTime":1820.306,"body":"skill set out of the box?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1821.095,"endTime":1823.185,"body":"Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1821.095,"endTime":1823.185,"body":"the partnership, right?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1823.235,"endTime":1829.898,"body":"the example that I keep thinking about is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1823.235,"endTime":1829.898,"body":"Like, when I went to school, calculator"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1829.898,"endTime":1834.298,"body":"was banned from school because we were"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1829.898,"endTime":1834.298,"body":"expected to learn how to do it ourselves."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1834.658,"endTime":1841.118,"body":"But then, that over time evolved into"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1834.658,"endTime":1841.118,"body":"how to effectively use calculator to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1841.548,"endTime":1846.308,"body":"focus on problem solving versus how"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1841.548,"endTime":1846.308,"body":"the math works behind the scenes."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1846.818,"endTime":1851.298,"body":"This is the similar, Metaphor that we"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1846.818,"endTime":1851.298,"body":"can apply to software engineers of today."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1851.318,"endTime":1856.098,"body":"So instead of actually doing it"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1851.318,"endTime":1856.098,"body":"yourself, you can play the role of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1856.098,"endTime":1858.838,"body":"an architect to optimize the code."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1858.878,"endTime":1865.707,"body":"You can play the role of what is the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1858.878,"endTime":1865.707,"body":"effective technology, and pipeline"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1865.707,"endTime":1869.897,"body":"that I can pull in from different"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1865.707,"endTime":1869.897,"body":"sources to optimize and streamline"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1869.897,"endTime":1872.367,"body":"my own consumption workflow, right?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1872.627,"endTime":1879.462,"body":"So it's a level of efficiency that are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1872.627,"endTime":1879.462,"body":"gonna see in enterprise application"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1879.462,"endTime":1884.522,"body":"development that can truly accelerate"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1879.462,"endTime":1884.522,"body":"the reach of what we can do and what"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1884.522,"endTime":1889.932,"body":"we can build upon, AI technologies"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1884.522,"endTime":1889.932,"body":"and bring efficiencies to every single"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1889.962,"endTime":1891.592,"body":"corner of enterprise through that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1892.168,"endTime":1894.918,"body":"So it's about becoming an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1892.168,"endTime":1894.918,"body":"orchestrator of these tools, understanding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1894.928,"endTime":1900.508,"body":"the inputs and the desired outputs, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1894.928,"endTime":1900.508,"body":"really kind of realigning how we think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1900.518,"endTime":1904.408,"body":"about when we do work as an engineer,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1900.518,"endTime":1904.408,"body":"maybe the definition of what that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1904.408,"endTime":1909.188,"body":"work is or the composition of it, it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1904.408,"endTime":1909.188,"body":"changes to allow you to move at a very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1909.188,"endTime":1911.828,"body":"rapid pace to be accelerated by AI."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1912.532,"endTime":1914.612,"body":"Yeah, one good"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1912.532,"endTime":1914.612,"body":"example of that is agents."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1914.642,"endTime":1917.172,"body":"You know, there is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1914.642,"endTime":1917.172,"body":"excitement around agents these days."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1917.722,"endTime":1922.152,"body":"It's like 99 percent of the developers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1917.722,"endTime":1922.152,"body":"that I talk to, they are either exploring"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1922.162,"endTime":1924.762,"body":"AI agents, or they are building AI agents."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1925.132,"endTime":1930.042,"body":"So if you think about the AI agents,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1925.132,"endTime":1930.042,"body":"it's a matter of What are the tools"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1930.042,"endTime":1934.422,"body":"that, as a software engineer, you"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1930.042,"endTime":1934.422,"body":"can make available to this agent?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1934.842,"endTime":1938.442,"body":"And what are the access controls"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1934.842,"endTime":1938.442,"body":"that you are going to delegate to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1938.442,"endTime":1940.502,"body":"this agent to take actions for you?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1940.976,"endTime":1944.286,"body":"One good example of that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1940.976,"endTime":1944.286,"body":"is code interpretation."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1944.296,"endTime":1947.936,"body":"So now the LLM can generate the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1944.296,"endTime":1947.936,"body":"code and interpret the code."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1948.076,"endTime":1953.026,"body":"Let's say it's a SQL code, you can go"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1948.076,"endTime":1953.026,"body":"query a database and grab the information."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1953.116,"endTime":1957.066,"body":"But at the same time, the software"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1953.116,"endTime":1957.066,"body":"engineer is the one that decides"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1957.341,"endTime":1961.621,"body":"what, the scope of what actions"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1957.341,"endTime":1961.621,"body":"should be performed by this agent?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1961.631,"endTime":1967.301,"body":"Do I allow this agent to just query"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1961.631,"endTime":1967.301,"body":"data or I'm, it's also okay to edit"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1967.311,"endTime":1969.751,"body":"the data or remove the data points?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1969.961,"endTime":1974.851,"body":"Because we know there are lots of,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1969.961,"endTime":1974.851,"body":"limitations associated with, um, LLMs."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1974.851,"endTime":1980.331,"body":"Hallucination, lack of explainability,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1974.851,"endTime":1980.331,"body":"this is unsupervised learning, uh,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1980.341,"endTime":1982.381,"body":"lack of reasoning, limited planning."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1982.606,"endTime":1983.376,"body":"capabilities."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1983.396,"endTime":1988.551,"body":"These capabilities are going to evolve"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1983.396,"endTime":1988.551,"body":"through the future, but The current"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1988.651,"endTime":1993.771,"body":"state is the role of the software"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1988.651,"endTime":1993.771,"body":"engineer is critical to define all those"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1993.801,"endTime":1999.341,"body":"constraints to effectively utilize the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":1993.801,"endTime":1999.341,"body":"agent for the use case that they expect."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2000.227,"endTime":2004.403,"body":"That's a really good"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2000.227,"endTime":2004.403,"body":"way to drive our conversation towards"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2004.483,"endTime":2007.743,"body":"really kind of what everyone's talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2004.483,"endTime":2007.743,"body":"about right now, which is this agentic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2007.773,"endTime":2010.093,"body":"AI experience with an enterprise."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2010.123,"endTime":2014.093,"body":"And it's kind of caught like wildfire"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2010.123,"endTime":2014.093,"body":"within a lot of communities talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2014.103,"endTime":2016.433,"body":"about how they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2014.103,"endTime":2016.433,"body":"applying this to their workflows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2016.443,"endTime":2020.843,"body":"And it often starts like a definition kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2016.443,"endTime":2020.843,"body":"of discussion of like, what is an agent?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2020.898,"endTime":2024.948,"body":"when does an AI tool become an agent"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2020.898,"endTime":2024.948,"body":"versus something that I'm using ad"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2024.968,"endTime":2029.308,"body":"hoc or on demand like conversational"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2024.968,"endTime":2029.308,"body":"chatbots like we've been used to?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2029.588,"endTime":2034.928,"body":"I'm wondering how is Watson X AI and,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2029.588,"endTime":2034.928,"body":"and, your team, how are you approaching"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2035.108,"endTime":2039.858,"body":"building and deploying AI agents at scale"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2035.108,"endTime":2039.858,"body":"when we're still defining what even the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2039.858,"endTime":2042.448,"body":"basics like trust or good outcomes mean?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2043.212,"endTime":2045.452,"body":"Yeah, we've"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2043.212,"endTime":2045.452,"body":"been focusing on two areas."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2045.492,"endTime":2049.922,"body":"One, targeting developers in"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2045.492,"endTime":2049.922,"body":"terms of what would they need to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2049.922,"endTime":2052.762,"body":"manage their agent AI lifecycle."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2052.852,"endTime":2057.102,"body":"All the way from creation of the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2052.852,"endTime":2057.102,"body":"agents to deployment of the agents"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2057.102,"endTime":2059.022,"body":"to monitoring the agent behaviors."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2059.022,"endTime":2059.332,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2059.702,"endTime":2062.892,"body":"And the two principles that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2059.702,"endTime":2062.892,"body":"we've been tracking throughout"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2062.902,"endTime":2067.892,"body":"designing this lifecycle management"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2062.902,"endTime":2067.892,"body":"is choices and simplicity."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2067.902,"endTime":2072.212,"body":"Simplicity, we talked about it, but"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2067.902,"endTime":2072.212,"body":"choices is the essential element today."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2072.382,"endTime":2077.012,"body":"For optimizations, and we all know"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2072.382,"endTime":2077.012,"body":"like developers love choices, love"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2077.032,"endTime":2079.122,"body":"customizations, not out of the box."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2079.392,"endTime":2083.742,"body":"So at every single step of the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2079.392,"endTime":2083.742,"body":"stack, I'll give you an example."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2083.742,"endTime":2087.992,"body":"for agent creation, you're going"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2083.742,"endTime":2087.992,"body":"to need a series of LLM models."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2088.322,"endTime":2092.592,"body":"They can come from open source, they're"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2088.322,"endTime":2092.592,"body":"different sizes, different architectures,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2092.852,"endTime":2097.312,"body":"with different multi modality"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2092.852,"endTime":2097.312,"body":"capabilities, supporting agentic behavior."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2097.372,"endTime":2100.012,"body":"So, you have access to a range of models."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2100.282,"endTime":2104.862,"body":"Then one level higher than that, we have"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2100.282,"endTime":2104.862,"body":"libraries and frameworks, AI libraries."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2104.892,"endTime":2110.412,"body":"Like, for example, LangChain,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2104.892,"endTime":2110.412,"body":"LanGraph, LamaIndex, CruAI, IBM B."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2110.622,"endTime":2113.902,"body":"There are a series of agents,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2110.622,"endTime":2113.902,"body":"agent frameworks that are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2113.922,"endTime":2115.232,"body":"evolving in the market."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2115.872,"endTime":2119.722,"body":"And developers need to mix and match,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2115.872,"endTime":2119.722,"body":"experiment with at this point to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2119.722,"endTime":2123.692,"body":"figure out what is going to work"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2119.722,"endTime":2123.692,"body":"for them in this situation, right?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2124.012,"endTime":2127.482,"body":"And then when you go up the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2124.012,"endTime":2127.482,"body":"stack is their application."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2127.912,"endTime":2133.782,"body":"The simplicity of abstracting all"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2127.912,"endTime":2133.782,"body":"these from a lower part of the stack."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2134.432,"endTime":2138.947,"body":"And in addition to all of this,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2134.432,"endTime":2138.947,"body":"They want the agentic workflows to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2138.947,"endTime":2141.407,"body":"be connected to external workflows."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2141.417,"endTime":2147.047,"body":"So a series of tools like web"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2141.417,"endTime":2147.047,"body":"search, calculator, custom tools like"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2147.047,"endTime":2149.777,"body":"custom rack pipeline as an agent."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2149.787,"endTime":2157.107,"body":"So we want to be able to define custom"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2149.787,"endTime":2157.107,"body":"tools, and also have the access to the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2157.167,"endTime":2159.057,"body":"ecosystem of tools that are available."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2159.107,"endTime":2160.727,"body":"Bringing all together."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2161.342,"endTime":2167.082,"body":"On the build phase, make it available"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2161.342,"endTime":2167.082,"body":"to the developers, so they have options"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2167.082,"endTime":2169.672,"body":"to mix and match to build their agent."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2169.732,"endTime":2173.312,"body":"And then once they build it, they"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2169.732,"endTime":2173.312,"body":"make a decision, choices again,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2173.732,"endTime":2176.532,"body":"about where to deploy this agent."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2176.782,"endTime":2178.782,"body":"On multi cloud, AWS."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2179.282,"endTime":2183.382,"body":"IBM Cloud, GCP, Microsoft, or on premises."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2183.592,"endTime":2187.752,"body":"So total flexibility in terms"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2183.592,"endTime":2187.752,"body":"of where to deploy that agent."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2187.952,"endTime":2191.522,"body":"And then they switch to, OK,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2187.952,"endTime":2191.522,"body":"so now I have an agent that is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2191.522,"endTime":2192.962,"body":"deployed behind an endpoint."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2192.992,"endTime":2194.047,"body":"I want to use it."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2194.227,"endTime":2199.797,"body":"In production, in my application, but I"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2194.227,"endTime":2199.797,"body":"need to monitor the behavior of the agent."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2200.087,"endTime":2204.957,"body":"They need to have transparency into what"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2200.087,"endTime":2204.957,"body":"the agent is doing, the series of action,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2204.987,"endTime":2206.987,"body":"and be able to trace that behavior."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2206.987,"endTime":2211.137,"body":"So observability is going to be a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2206.987,"endTime":2211.137,"body":"huge piece of agentic workflows."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2211.287,"endTime":2214.057,"body":"And that's really the end to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2211.287,"endTime":2214.057,"body":"end picture for developers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2214.077,"endTime":2215.487,"body":"that we have been focusing on."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2216.007,"endTime":2221.807,"body":"Parallel to this, there's a series of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2216.007,"endTime":2221.807,"body":"pre built agents, like agents that are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2221.867,"endTime":2227.447,"body":"connected to, let's say, CRM systems"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2221.867,"endTime":2227.447,"body":"or HR systems, or agents specialized"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2227.447,"endTime":2231.637,"body":"for sales and marketing, that we want"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2227.447,"endTime":2231.637,"body":"to be able to import them into the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2231.637,"endTime":2233.937,"body":"platform like the developer grabs them."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2234.262,"endTime":2236.262,"body":"And also, customize them."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2236.492,"endTime":2240.832,"body":"Again, like back to not out of the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2236.492,"endTime":2240.832,"body":"box, I want to be able to customize"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2240.832,"endTime":2241.902,"body":"it and go through the cycle."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2242.222,"endTime":2245.582,"body":"these are really the two major"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2242.222,"endTime":2245.582,"body":"areas that we've been focusing on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2246.056,"endTime":2249.006,"body":"And for a team that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2246.056,"endTime":2249.006,"body":"maybe finds themselves with access to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2249.006,"endTime":2252.726,"body":"these tools or starting to spin these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2249.006,"endTime":2252.726,"body":"up, what's practical advice you would"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2252.726,"endTime":2257.846,"body":"give somebody if they are put in a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2252.726,"endTime":2257.846,"body":"position of tying it to ROI right now?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2257.866,"endTime":2260.826,"body":"Like, experimentation is great"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2257.866,"endTime":2260.826,"body":"and it could be wide open, but if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2260.826,"endTime":2264.366,"body":"you're put in a position of having"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2260.826,"endTime":2264.366,"body":"to tie it back to a real actionable"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2264.676,"endTime":2267.276,"body":"and impactful use case, what, how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2264.676,"endTime":2267.276,"body":"would you recommend they do that?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2268.325,"endTime":2271.755,"body":"I've seen a lot of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2268.325,"endTime":2271.755,"body":"developers that chase after technologies"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2271.835,"endTime":2277.295,"body":"as a solution to figure out how they"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2271.835,"endTime":2277.295,"body":"can just integrate their stack with what"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2277.365,"endTime":2279.745,"body":"pops up or is popular in the market."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2280.215,"endTime":2283.445,"body":"I would say that the shift shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2280.215,"endTime":2283.445,"body":"be chasing the technologies."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2283.465,"endTime":2287.905,"body":"The shift should be focusing on what is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2283.465,"endTime":2287.905,"body":"the problem that you're trying to solve."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2288.315,"endTime":2292.125,"body":"Because then, once you understand"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2288.315,"endTime":2292.125,"body":"your use case and the problem that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2292.125,"endTime":2295.695,"body":"you're trying to solve, you would"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2292.125,"endTime":2295.695,"body":"be able to look into the market, and"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2295.695,"endTime":2300.205,"body":"differentiates between what is a noise"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2295.695,"endTime":2300.205,"body":"and what is actually applicable to you."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2300.385,"endTime":2304.065,"body":"So instead of mastering a series"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2300.385,"endTime":2304.065,"body":"of tools to figure out which one is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2304.065,"endTime":2309.665,"body":"applicable into your case, you have a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2304.065,"endTime":2309.665,"body":"very good view of what I'm looking for"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2309.855,"endTime":2314.825,"body":"and can just do an initial assessment"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2309.855,"endTime":2314.825,"body":"of where the market is going or what's"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2314.825,"endTime":2318.085,"body":"becoming unavailable through the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2314.825,"endTime":2318.085,"body":"lens of what's going to work for you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2318.846,"endTime":2321.416,"body":"So it's about resetting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2318.846,"endTime":2321.416,"body":"the conversation at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2321.426,"endTime":2325.266,"body":"It's not about experimenting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2321.426,"endTime":2325.266,"body":"with AI for AI's sake."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2325.326,"endTime":2329.226,"body":"It's about identifying a core problem"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2325.326,"endTime":2329.226,"body":"to your organization that up until now,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2329.416,"endTime":2333.726,"body":"you haven't had the resources or the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2329.416,"endTime":2333.726,"body":"time or the skills or even the technical"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2333.726,"endTime":2339.046,"body":"ability to solve, and seeing if perhaps"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2333.726,"endTime":2339.046,"body":"AI would allow you to unlock that problem."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2339.565,"endTime":2340.375,"body":"Precisely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2341.691,"endTime":2344.221,"body":"Is there a role"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2341.691,"endTime":2344.221,"body":"within this world that you think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2344.221,"endTime":2346.531,"body":"is going to be the most impacted?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2346.531,"endTime":2349.411,"body":"I think they're all going to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2346.531,"endTime":2349.411,"body":"impacted in some way, but what role"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2349.621,"endTime":2353.071,"body":"within software engineering do you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2349.621,"endTime":2353.071,"body":"think has the most change ahead of it?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2354.05,"endTime":2357.17,"body":"Well, I would say that"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2354.05,"endTime":2357.17,"body":"the software engineer role, like the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2357.18,"endTime":2358.7,"body":"title, is not going to be changed."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2358.76,"endTime":2361.2,"body":"We're going to need software"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2358.76,"endTime":2361.2,"body":"engineers, and we are all"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2361.2,"endTime":2362.48,"body":"software engineers at heart."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2362.52,"endTime":2367.45,"body":"Like over, over the, I'm just looking at"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2362.52,"endTime":2367.45,"body":"my career, over the past 15, 20 years."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2368.67,"endTime":2370.49,"body":"That field has evolved, right?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2370.71,"endTime":2374.3,"body":"Like we've been taking advantage"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2370.71,"endTime":2374.3,"body":"of the evolving architectures."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2374.31,"endTime":2378.13,"body":"Obviously, the past two years has"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2374.31,"endTime":2378.13,"body":"been insane, but even over the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2378.14,"endTime":2379.56,"body":"past decade, it's been evolving."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2379.56,"endTime":2381.24,"body":"So it's going to continue to evolve."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2381.46,"endTime":2386.56,"body":"I would say that the major change to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2381.46,"endTime":2386.56,"body":"software engineers, not to the title."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2386.56,"endTime":2392.8,"body":"It's gonna be to the day-to-day way of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2386.56,"endTime":2392.8,"body":"how they do their job in terms of, how"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2392.8,"endTime":2399.775,"body":"they take advantage of the AI to go"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2392.8,"endTime":2399.775,"body":"through the whole life cycle of code,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2400.705,"endTime":2406.915,"body":"code creation, code, reuse, debugging,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2400.705,"endTime":2406.915,"body":"the use all the way to deployment."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2406.915,"endTime":2407.875,"body":"CICD pipelines."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2408.745,"endTime":2412.755,"body":"efficiencies on monitoring, even"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2408.745,"endTime":2412.755,"body":"using AI to monitor those systems."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2412.755,"endTime":2418.015,"body":"Like when an IT incident happens,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2412.755,"endTime":2418.015,"body":"for example, now we can see that LLM"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2418.015,"endTime":2424.205,"body":"can generate a report of what are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2418.015,"endTime":2424.205,"body":"potential causes of, that, incident and"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2424.215,"endTime":2430.095,"body":"generate the potential script that the"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2424.215,"endTime":2430.095,"body":"developer can review and approve to run."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2430.305,"endTime":2435.79,"body":"So instead of developer going"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2430.305,"endTime":2435.79,"body":"through all these, they free up their"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2435.8,"endTime":2437.61,"body":"time to focus on something else."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2437.68,"endTime":2443.199,"body":"But also this means that the sort of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2437.68,"endTime":2443.199,"body":"set of skills that is expected from"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2443.199,"endTime":2445.049,"body":"software engineers are going to evolve."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2445.419,"endTime":2452.079,"body":"So perfecting the code may not be"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2445.419,"endTime":2452.079,"body":"the skills that you go after, but"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2452.089,"endTime":2456.579,"body":"having an ability to understand"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2452.089,"endTime":2456.579,"body":"what is a perfect, optimized code"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2456.909,"endTime":2461.139,"body":"and this optimization that AI is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2456.909,"endTime":2461.139,"body":"suggesting, does it make sense or not?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2461.139,"endTime":2461.724,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2462.244,"endTime":2463.324,"body":"You see the difference?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2463.324,"endTime":2468.614,"body":"Instead of acting to perfect it, you,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2463.324,"endTime":2468.614,"body":"you have a vision of, like, sort of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2468.624,"endTime":2470.844,"body":"figuring out if that's the right move."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2471.084,"endTime":2474.654,"body":"Sort of going up the stack in"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2471.084,"endTime":2474.654,"body":"terms of decision maker, making."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2474.664,"endTime":2478.124,"body":"They are going to be decision"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2474.664,"endTime":2478.124,"body":"makers versus act doers."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2479.365,"endTime":2479.785,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2479.965,"endTime":2480.865,"body":"This, this makes sense."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2480.865,"endTime":2485.125,"body":"And, and, and really what I liked what you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2480.865,"endTime":2485.125,"body":"said about that was, We all kind of become"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2485.125,"endTime":2489.655,"body":"software engineers in a way accessing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2485.125,"endTime":2489.655,"body":"and creating and working with technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2489.655,"endTime":2493.7,"body":"like this has never now been more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2489.655,"endTime":2493.7,"body":"accessible than it is today, and it will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2493.71,"endTime":2495.75,"body":"only continue to become more accessible."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2495.96,"endTime":2498.97,"body":"You're going to have situations"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2495.96,"endTime":2498.97,"body":"and environments where somebody in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2498.97,"endTime":2502.66,"body":"middle school could sit down with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2498.97,"endTime":2502.66,"body":"a, with an LLM and spit out an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2502.66,"endTime":2505.8,"body":"application that maybe like five"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2502.66,"endTime":2505.8,"body":"years ago would have taken a team of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2505.8,"endTime":2508.01,"body":"10, you know, adults to make, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2508.25,"endTime":2511.72,"body":"It goes back to how technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2508.25,"endTime":2511.72,"body":"becomes more accessible over time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2512.01,"endTime":2516.615,"body":"Also about, Why people need to really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2512.01,"endTime":2516.615,"body":"understand how technology works, so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2516.615,"endTime":2520.495,"body":"that our world can be a safer and better"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2516.615,"endTime":2520.495,"body":"place with the technology as it grows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2521.212,"endTime":2525.092,"body":"It makes me think of even like in the 80s"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2521.212,"endTime":2525.092,"body":"or the 90s, like, think of the earliest"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2525.102,"endTime":2526.552,"body":"people connecting to the internet."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2526.592,"endTime":2528.842,"body":"Like, those were categorical nerds, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2528.842,"endTime":2532.382,"body":"Like, there was a very small subset"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2528.842,"endTime":2532.382,"body":"of people connecting to the internet,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2532.592,"endTime":2535.682,"body":"and people wouldn't think about how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2532.592,"endTime":2535.682,"body":"that would transform the world now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2535.882,"endTime":2538.422,"body":"someone not in that world would"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2535.882,"endTime":2538.422,"body":"never be like, oh, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2538.422,"endTime":2539.512,"body":"gonna connect to the internet."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2539.512,"endTime":2541.002,"body":"I never need to learn how to do that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2541.012,"endTime":2542.372,"body":"That's not what I do."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2542.562,"endTime":2546.787,"body":"But now, the internet is ubiquitous,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2542.562,"endTime":2546.787,"body":"and anybody can access the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2546.787,"endTime":2548.247,"body":"internet from almost anything."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2548.427,"endTime":2551.587,"body":"it requires no skill, notably, to do so."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2551.607,"endTime":2553.167,"body":"It becomes at your fingertips."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2553.337,"endTime":2556.867,"body":"What we're experiencing, I think,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2553.337,"endTime":2556.867,"body":"with AI is a lot of those engineering"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2556.867,"endTime":2560.727,"body":"skills and tools becoming at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2556.867,"endTime":2560.727,"body":"people's fingertips more broadly."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2560.907,"endTime":2564.497,"body":"So you can see it being applied a lot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2560.907,"endTime":2564.497,"body":"more places, but the unique expertise"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2564.537,"endTime":2567.617,"body":"and the human factor of what the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2564.537,"endTime":2567.617,"body":"developer brings to the experience is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2567.617,"endTime":2569.127,"body":"still going to be very much needed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2569.587,"endTime":2572.117,"body":"And so that's kind of what I hear"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2569.587,"endTime":2572.117,"body":"resonating from what you said."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2572.427,"endTime":2574.577,"body":"Um, and I like the idea that,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2572.427,"endTime":2574.577,"body":"you know, everyone kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2574.577,"endTime":2576.527,"body":"becomes software engineers in a"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2576.676,"endTime":2579.626,"body":"And honestly, this"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2576.676,"endTime":2579.626,"body":"is what I'm most excited about when"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2579.626,"endTime":2581.426,"body":"I think about AI in the future."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2581.516,"endTime":2584.736,"body":"AI development is going to be"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2581.516,"endTime":2584.736,"body":"accessible to basically everyone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2585.467,"endTime":2587.987,"body":"Oh, and I, that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2585.467,"endTime":2587.987,"body":"the future that I think excites me"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2587.987,"endTime":2591.437,"body":"the most too, is seeing how people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2587.987,"endTime":2591.437,"body":"who actually are not from a software"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2591.437,"endTime":2596.467,"body":"development world start to imagine"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2591.437,"endTime":2596.467,"body":"creating software for them that works"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2596.637,"endTime":2601.232,"body":"for their unique situations or use cases"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2596.637,"endTime":2601.232,"body":"that is a perspective that engineers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2601.232,"endTime":2605.142,"body":"before would have never had, just by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2601.232,"endTime":2605.142,"body":"maybe nature of even being an engineer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2605.302,"endTime":2609.252,"body":"By opening the door, it allows a lot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2605.302,"endTime":2609.252,"body":"of different perspectives, but it also"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2609.252,"endTime":2613.662,"body":"puts on everybody a greater burden"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2609.252,"endTime":2613.662,"body":"to understand the technology and to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2613.662,"endTime":2615.242,"body":"make it safe and make it effective."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2615.722,"endTime":2618.592,"body":"That way we can have tools that, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2615.722,"endTime":2618.592,"body":"know, make our world a better place,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2618.622,"endTime":2621.232,"body":"not just maybe a noisier place."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2621.477,"endTime":2624.135,"body":"are there any particular projects that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2621.477,"endTime":2624.135,"body":"go on the horizon for you that, like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2624.135,"endTime":2626.205,"body":"are exciting or catch your interest?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2626.544,"endTime":2629.804,"body":"Yeah, so related"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2626.544,"endTime":2629.804,"body":"to this, one of the exciting part"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2629.804,"endTime":2634.774,"body":"that I keep seeing in the market"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2629.804,"endTime":2634.774,"body":"emerging is no code interfaces"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2635.074,"endTime":2636.024,"body":"for development."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2636.394,"endTime":2640.304,"body":"and back to our conversation about"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2636.394,"endTime":2640.304,"body":"accessibility with this no code"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2640.324,"endTime":2643.924,"body":"interfaces, not only developers"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2640.324,"endTime":2643.924,"body":"are using them, but also it's"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2643.924,"endTime":2645.504,"body":"opened up to business users."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2645.524,"endTime":2651.144,"body":"Now business users can go to a no code RAG"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2645.524,"endTime":2651.144,"body":"Retrieval Augmented Generation, which is"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2651.234,"endTime":2653.374,"body":"one of the popular use cases for Gen AI."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2653.614,"endTime":2655.144,"body":"to create the whole pipeline."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2655.354,"endTime":2659.554,"body":"And then there is a no code"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2655.354,"endTime":2659.554,"body":"optimization approach on top of"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2659.584,"endTime":2662.624,"body":"that, that we've been able to"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2659.584,"endTime":2662.624,"body":"automatically automate the pipeline."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2662.634,"endTime":2664.389,"body":"So I'm like, Perfect."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2664.569,"endTime":2669.579,"body":"Business user now can go create"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2664.569,"endTime":2669.579,"body":"the RAC pipeline and optimize it."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2669.739,"endTime":2673.039,"body":"Obviously, that technology is like"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2669.739,"endTime":2673.039,"body":"it's going to evolve, but we keep"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2673.039,"endTime":2678.199,"body":"seeing how it's impacting the nature"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2673.039,"endTime":2678.199,"body":"of the development tools that are"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2678.199,"endTime":2682.309,"body":"available in the market today versus"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2678.199,"endTime":2682.309,"body":"where it's going to go in the future."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2682.385,"endTime":2683.635,"body":"I'm a big fan of that too."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2683.655,"endTime":2687.005,"body":"just general no code, low code"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2683.655,"endTime":2687.005,"body":"applications, drag and drop builders"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2687.015,"endTime":2689.095,"body":"for getting basic logic out the door."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2689.095,"endTime":2693.345,"body":"And I think that we've seen in last many"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2689.095,"endTime":2693.345,"body":"years, you know, non engineering, non"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2693.345,"endTime":2697.295,"body":"tech folks embrace and use those tools"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2693.345,"endTime":2697.295,"body":"to drive huge impact within their orgs."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2697.295,"endTime":2701.115,"body":"And so when you think about combining"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2697.295,"endTime":2701.115,"body":"that with AI, I'm excited to see what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2701.435,"endTime":2704.855,"body":"the future of maybe non engineers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2701.435,"endTime":2704.855,"body":"will build for our engineering world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2705.524,"endTime":2709.734,"body":"But with that in mind, Dr. Ashoori,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2705.524,"endTime":2709.734,"body":"thank you so much for joining me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2710.004,"endTime":2713.824,"body":"This has been a really fun conversation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2710.004,"endTime":2713.824,"body":"exploring some of the potentials of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2713.824,"endTime":2718.754,"body":"future, but also diving into some real"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2713.824,"endTime":2718.754,"body":"actionable and qualitative results that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2718.754,"endTime":2723.454,"body":"you got from feedback on developers and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2718.754,"endTime":2723.454,"body":"on the tools and systems that you work on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2723.634,"endTime":2725.774,"body":"And your work is only going"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2723.634,"endTime":2725.774,"body":"to continue to evolve."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2725.774,"endTime":2728.864,"body":"So where can our audience go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2725.774,"endTime":2728.864,"body":"to learn more about you and to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2728.864,"endTime":2729.954,"body":"follow what you're working on?"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2730.904,"endTime":2733.163,"body":"Watsonx.ai"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2730.904,"endTime":2733.163,"body":"That's my product."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2733.503,"endTime":2738.303,"body":"That's targeting build, develop,"},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2733.503,"endTime":2738.303,"body":"deploy and monitoring AI models."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2738.813,"endTime":2740.843,"body":"And you can follow me on that."},{"speaker":"Maryam Ashoori","startTime":2740.963,"endTime":2742.003,"body":"Watsonx.ai"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2742.699,"endTime":2743.329,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2743.699,"endTime":2745.589,"body":"That's it for this week's episode."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2745.669,"endTime":2749.609,"body":"A huge thank you again to Dr."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2745.669,"endTime":2749.609,"body":"Maryam Ashoori of IBM for joining"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2749.609,"endTime":2751.419,"body":"us today and sharing her insights."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2751.759,"endTime":2755.149,"body":"And to our listeners, if today's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2751.759,"endTime":2755.149,"body":"conversation has sparked ideas"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2755.309,"endTime":2758.429,"body":"or controversy, don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2755.309,"endTime":2758.429,"body":"subscribe to Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2758.809,"endTime":2761.929,"body":"Check out our sub stack for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2758.809,"endTime":2761.929,"body":"deeper dives onto these topics."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2762.209,"endTime":2764.519,"body":"And we'd also love to hear"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2762.209,"endTime":2764.519,"body":"your thoughts and continue to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2764.519,"endTime":2765.859,"body":"the discussions on socials."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2766.119,"endTime":2769.239,"body":"Maryam and I are both on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2766.119,"endTime":2769.239,"body":"and would probably love to hear your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2769.239,"endTime":2770.859,"body":"feedback on what we talked about today."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2771.229,"endTime":2773.799,"body":"And until next time, see you next week."}]}