{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":6.299,"endTime":7.679,"body":"Welcome"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":6.299,"endTime":7.679,"body":"to Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":7.829,"endTime":9.449,"body":"I'm your host, Ben Lloyd Pearson."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":9.885,"endTime":11.405,"body":"And I am"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":9.885,"endTime":11.405,"body":"your host, Andrew Zigler."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":12.105,"endTime":14.805,"body":"This week has some pretty weird news."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":15.135,"endTime":19.125,"body":"We're talking about a new problem called"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":15.135,"endTime":19.125,"body":"slop squatting, introduced by code"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":19.125,"endTime":25.635,"body":"generation, the ai turf wars, and buyers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":19.125,"endTime":25.635,"body":"literally lining up to buy Google Chrome"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":26.115,"endTime":29.625,"body":"and some new vibe coding techniques"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":26.115,"endTime":29.625,"body":"that we've been reading and trying out."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":30.405,"endTime":31.515,"body":"What do you wanna talk about first, Ben?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":32.123,"endTime":35.323,"body":"Well, as much as I love"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":32.123,"endTime":35.323,"body":"talking about vibe coding particularly"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":35.323,"endTime":38.853,"body":"because I just started doing it this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":35.323,"endTime":38.853,"body":"week for the first time, this word slop"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":38.853,"endTime":40.593,"body":"squatting just really has me going."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":40.593,"endTime":42.723,"body":"So let, let's talk about that one first."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":43.22,"endTime":44.63,"body":"this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":43.22,"endTime":44.63,"body":"one's really interesting."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":44.63,"endTime":49.97,"body":"So, LOP Squatting is a variation of a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":44.63,"endTime":49.97,"body":"vulnerability, a security vulnerability"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":50.18,"endTime":52.395,"body":"during production, called Typo squatting."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":52.46,"endTime":53.12,"body":"This happens"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":53.253,"endTime":53.613,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":53.72,"endTime":55.775,"body":"you're installing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":53.72,"endTime":55.775,"body":"a package, uh, maybe like a really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":55.775,"endTime":59.225,"body":"popular or big package into your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":55.775,"endTime":59.225,"body":"project, but maybe you make a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":59.225,"endTime":61.085,"body":"typo or you forget that hyphen or."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":61.515,"endTime":64.815,"body":"You use an underscore instead of kebab"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":61.515,"endTime":64.815,"body":"case, whatever happens, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":65.115,"endTime":68.835,"body":"you can end up downloading the wrong"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":65.115,"endTime":68.835,"body":"package and inside of that could contain"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":68.835,"endTime":70.815,"body":"malicious code from a third party."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":71.175,"endTime":75.495,"body":"And slop squatting is the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":71.175,"endTime":75.495,"body":"newest variant of that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":75.825,"endTime":80.895,"body":"It happens when you ask an LLM to generate"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":75.825,"endTime":80.895,"body":"code and it does so, so diligently."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":81.045,"endTime":83.12,"body":"But in doing so, it maybe hallucinates."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":83.611,"endTime":87.811,"body":"package that before didn't exist, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":83.611,"endTime":87.811,"body":"it can do this using really common"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":87.811,"endTime":92.461,"body":"combinations of really popular packages"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":87.811,"endTime":92.461,"body":"during everyday development of common"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":92.461,"endTime":94.021,"body":"things that you might ask it to do."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":94.351,"endTime":97.321,"body":"And when these things slip into"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":94.351,"endTime":97.321,"body":"your project, suddenly you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":97.321,"endTime":101.263,"body":"opening the door to a malicious"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":97.321,"endTime":101.263,"body":"user or, you know, even like a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":101.263,"endTime":103.033,"body":"hacker to get into your application."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":103.733,"endTime":107.903,"body":"so Ben, you know, what do you think of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":103.733,"endTime":107.903,"body":"this kind of phenomenon evolving as people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":107.903,"endTime":110.363,"body":"start exploring vibe coding like yourself?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":110.757,"endTime":113.157,"body":"I really think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":110.757,"endTime":113.157,"body":"this is like a cautionary tale for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":113.157,"endTime":115.167,"body":"anyone that's running a software team."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":115.297,"endTime":119.841,"body":"you know, as more developers and frankly"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":115.297,"endTime":119.841,"body":"non-developers too, get access to AI"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":119.841,"endTime":125.281,"body":"tools for scaffolding and creating"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":119.841,"endTime":125.281,"body":"code, the surface area for attacks like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":125.431,"endTime":127.921,"body":"supply chain attacks, uh, is exploding."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":127.971,"endTime":129.261,"body":"unlike traditional."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":129.906,"endTime":134.286,"body":"Attacks like typo squatting, for example,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":129.906,"endTime":134.286,"body":"this doesn't rely on on human error."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":134.296,"endTime":136.246,"body":"you're potentially doing everything right."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":136.516,"endTime":139.516,"body":"It's just, exploiting something"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":136.516,"endTime":139.516,"body":"that, or an assumption that you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":139.516,"endTime":142.456,"body":"can make about how AI operates."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":142.756,"endTime":145.516,"body":"And it raises some pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":142.756,"endTime":145.516,"body":"critical questions for this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":145.566,"endTime":148.836,"body":"AI driven agent native future."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":148.866,"endTime":153.456,"body":"Like if agents are writing our code,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":148.866,"endTime":153.456,"body":"like what guardrails are we implementing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":153.456,"endTime":155.076,"body":"to stop them from doing things like."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":155.499,"endTime":158.919,"body":"Importing malicious packages I think"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":155.499,"endTime":158.919,"body":"what we're really seeing is there's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":158.919,"endTime":162.909,"body":"still a lot of unknown unknowns in the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":158.919,"endTime":162.909,"body":"security space when it comes to ai."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":162.959,"endTime":166.169,"body":"we're learning a lot of new things"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":162.959,"endTime":166.169,"body":"about how it can be applied."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":166.559,"endTime":169.724,"body":"To take advantage of you"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":166.559,"endTime":169.724,"body":"and you know, it's you."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":169.729,"endTime":172.222,"body":"You gotta stay, up to date"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":169.729,"endTime":172.222,"body":"on, on what's happening."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":172.552,"endTime":176.002,"body":"And of course, I started vibe coding this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":172.552,"endTime":176.002,"body":"week for the first time, like I am now"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":176.212,"endTime":180.782,"body":"taking such a fine tooth comb to every"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":176.212,"endTime":180.782,"body":"single dependency that it tries to bring"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":180.782,"endTime":182.822,"body":"into my project, which is a good practice."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":182.822,"endTime":183.872,"body":"You should always do that."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":183.872,"endTime":188.032,"body":"But it also made me realize that even"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":183.872,"endTime":188.032,"body":"when you know that this is a challenge."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":188.282,"endTime":193.294,"body":"it still can be kind of difficult to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":188.282,"endTime":193.294,"body":"validate that these packages are legit."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":193.294,"endTime":198.001,"body":"Like, it's pretty easy to fake a package"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":193.294,"endTime":198.001,"body":"page on, on a repository, you know?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":198.521,"endTime":202.121,"body":"so just like until we have tools that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":198.521,"endTime":202.121,"body":"make this a lot more consistent and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":202.121,"endTime":206.291,"body":"automatable, I think we do really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":202.121,"endTime":206.291,"body":"need to be conscious of when we use"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":206.291,"endTime":210.581,"body":"AI and when it does things that bring"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":206.291,"endTime":210.581,"body":"in new dependencies into our projects."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":211.206,"endTime":213.426,"body":"You know, we'll talk a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":211.206,"endTime":213.426,"body":"little bit more about this later too."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":213.803,"endTime":217.686,"body":"but it really highlights the skill sets"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":213.803,"endTime":217.686,"body":"and the, and the mindset shift that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":217.686,"endTime":221.526,"body":"you have to adopt when working with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":217.686,"endTime":221.526,"body":"code Generation in this way, because,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":221.526,"endTime":222.816,"body":"you're spending a lot of time now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":222.846,"endTime":226.326,"body":"Looking up the packages that are going"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":222.846,"endTime":226.326,"body":"into your project and really understanding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":226.326,"endTime":229.356,"body":"the building blocks of it, and that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":226.326,"endTime":229.356,"body":"because, you know, maybe some of your time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":229.356,"endTime":233.466,"body":"that would've been dedicated to coding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":229.356,"endTime":233.466,"body":"is now freed up to do this better, higher"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":233.466,"endTime":235.086,"body":"level understanding of your application."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":235.086,"endTime":238.266,"body":"So it all plays together and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":235.086,"endTime":238.266,"body":"really highlights the importance of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":238.266,"endTime":239.976,"body":"understanding the code you're shipping."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":240.619,"endTime":240.799,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":240.799,"endTime":245.299,"body":"So I, I wanna talk now about the,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":240.799,"endTime":245.299,"body":"the AI wars, 'cause this is really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":245.299,"endTime":246.859,"body":"starting to seem to heat up."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":246.859,"endTime":248.959,"body":"So what, what do we"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":246.859,"endTime":248.959,"body":"have for that this week?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":249.786,"endTime":250.296,"body":"Oh yes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":250.296,"endTime":252.276,"body":"So there's a whole rumble right now"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":252.324,"endTime":252.444,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":252.456,"endTime":256.116,"body":"tech world because Google"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":252.456,"endTime":256.116,"body":"has to sell or divest from Chrome."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":256.486,"endTime":260.976,"body":"judges ruled that as part of a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":256.486,"endTime":260.976,"body":"monopoly that, Google it can no longer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":261.096,"endTime":263.416,"body":"keep Chrome, as part of its portfolio."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":263.416,"endTime":267.796,"body":"And this is, causing a lot of large"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":263.416,"endTime":267.796,"body":"tech companies, people adjacent to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":267.796,"endTime":270.886,"body":"search and AI to swarm the scene."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":271.126,"endTime":273.016,"body":"Literally, somewhat like Vultures"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":273.239,"endTime":274.229,"body":"Yeah, like vultures."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":274.406,"endTime":276.776,"body":"Immediately"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":274.406,"endTime":276.776,"body":"buy, the Chrome browser."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":276.776,"endTime":278.216,"body":"Now, why is this important?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":278.216,"endTime":281.526,"body":"Obviously, we all know Google is a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":278.216,"endTime":281.526,"body":"large company, very large reaching"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":281.526,"endTime":285.006,"body":"tech portfolio powers, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":281.526,"endTime":285.006,"body":"the modern world that we live in."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":285.334,"endTime":285.624,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":285.966,"endTime":288.906,"body":"when you talk about a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":285.966,"endTime":288.906,"body":"fundamental tool like Google Chrome,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":288.906,"endTime":290.496,"body":"which is almost ubiquitous now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":290.511,"endTime":293.601,"body":"With accessing the internet,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":290.511,"endTime":293.601,"body":"there's a lot at stake."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":293.661,"endTime":295.581,"body":"It's a large user base."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":295.741,"endTime":300.541,"body":"and this is happening at a critical time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":295.741,"endTime":300.541,"body":"when we're completely re-evaluating what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":300.541,"endTime":304.441,"body":"it even means to go online and use an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":300.541,"endTime":304.441,"body":"application or search for information."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":304.681,"endTime":307.081,"body":"And the ways in which"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":304.681,"endTime":307.081,"body":"people are doing this are."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":307.456,"endTime":308.566,"body":"Kind of flipping on its head."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":308.806,"endTime":311.233,"body":"You have a AI that's kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":308.806,"endTime":311.233,"body":"of coming into search."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":311.293,"endTime":313.353,"body":"You know, we've been covering"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":311.293,"endTime":313.353,"body":"this a lot on the pod."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":313.353,"endTime":316.039,"body":"We've been talking about how,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":313.353,"endTime":316.039,"body":"there's these encroaching wars"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":316.039,"endTime":320.869,"body":"between going to chat GPT to search"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":316.039,"endTime":320.869,"body":"a query and going to Google and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":320.869,"endTime":323.029,"body":"getting your AI generated responses."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":323.309,"endTime":325.679,"body":"they're both playing in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":323.309,"endTime":325.679,"body":"each other's ball yard."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":325.694,"endTime":330.084,"body":"So all of that is to say, is that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":325.694,"endTime":330.084,"body":"you've got companies like Yahoo,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":330.144,"endTime":335.124,"body":"perplexity, DuckDuckGo, all lining"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":330.144,"endTime":335.124,"body":"up, OpenAI of course, wanting to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":335.124,"endTime":337.341,"body":"obtain, some of this for themselves."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":337.401,"endTime":339.401,"body":"So Ben, what do you think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":337.401,"endTime":339.401,"body":"of, this circumstance?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":339.669,"endTime":339.809,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":339.809,"endTime":343.169,"body":"Well first of all, I, I lo as someone"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":339.809,"endTime":343.169,"body":"who used to work for Yahoo, I love that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":343.169,"endTime":347.531,"body":"they're trying to find a way to make sure"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":343.169,"endTime":347.531,"body":"they remain relevant, uh, in the AI era."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":347.931,"endTime":350.151,"body":"and also I just wanna say, I"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":347.931,"endTime":350.151,"body":"just want to have it out there."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":350.151,"endTime":352.161,"body":"I would also like to buy Chrome."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":352.281,"endTime":355.491,"body":"I might end up being like DuckDuckGo and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":352.281,"endTime":355.491,"body":"not actually being able to afford it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":355.491,"endTime":356.511,"body":"But that's besides the point."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":356.511,"endTime":360.111,"body":"I would like to buy it if"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":356.511,"endTime":360.111,"body":"that's possible, but personally."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":360.223,"endTime":361.343,"body":"have to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":360.223,"endTime":361.343,"body":"talk with them and ask."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":361.776,"endTime":361.956,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":362.736,"endTime":366.486,"body":"But personally, you know, I would love"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":362.736,"endTime":366.486,"body":"to see it hosted like under a foundation"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":366.486,"endTime":370.866,"body":"similar to Mozilla, but it's probably"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":366.486,"endTime":370.866,"body":"like an unreasonable thing to expect."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":371.146,"endTime":375.166,"body":"and maybe they'll become like an"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":371.146,"endTime":375.166,"body":"independent company, but it really does"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":375.166,"endTime":378.466,"body":"not surprise me at all that we have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":375.166,"endTime":378.466,"body":"all these vultures circling to scoop"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":378.496,"endTime":380.506,"body":"it up once Google is forced to sell it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":380.536,"endTime":385.466,"body":"I mean, I think everyone would like to own"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":380.536,"endTime":385.466,"body":"Chrome, so it's kind of, it's like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":385.466,"endTime":386.996,"body":"You and everyone else, thank you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":387.206,"endTime":389.909,"body":"I think too is that the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":387.206,"endTime":389.909,"body":"key thing here is that the tool we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":389.909,"endTime":394.336,"body":"gonna use to search or go online and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":389.909,"endTime":394.336,"body":"go to websites, I think the tool we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":394.336,"endTime":396.856,"body":"gonna be using in a few years from now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":394.336,"endTime":396.856,"body":"probably hasn't even been invented yet."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":396.856,"endTime":397.186,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":397.353,"endTime":399.713,"body":"and the way we access"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":397.353,"endTime":399.713,"body":"it, completely reinvents itself."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":399.713,"endTime":405.398,"body":"I. frequently the browser wars"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":399.713,"endTime":405.398,"body":"like that used to be a thing, and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":405.426,"endTime":405.846,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":405.998,"endTime":407.648,"body":"which was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":405.998,"endTime":407.648,"body":"going to emerge ahead."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":407.648,"endTime":410.861,"body":"You got like, Mosaic, then you had"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":407.648,"endTime":410.861,"body":"Netscape, then you had Internet Explorer,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":410.861,"endTime":412.601,"body":"then you had Firefox and you had Chrome."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":412.601,"endTime":415.571,"body":"And then Chrome became huge"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":412.601,"endTime":415.571,"body":"and you know what's next?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":415.571,"endTime":417.551,"body":"I don't know, but I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":415.571,"endTime":417.551,"body":"it'll be something different."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":418.059,"endTime":420.429,"body":"Yeah, and I would"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":418.059,"endTime":420.429,"body":"definitely love to hear more about Open"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":420.429,"endTime":422.829,"body":"AI's vision about an AI first browser."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":422.859,"endTime":425.199,"body":"'cause that was something they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":422.859,"endTime":425.199,"body":"mentioned as a part of this."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":425.199,"endTime":427.959,"body":"So like it, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":425.199,"endTime":427.959,"body":"gonna be a cool experience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":427.959,"endTime":429.279,"body":"I would really love to see that happen."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":429.329,"endTime":432.419,"body":"But, and this wasn't the only thing"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":429.329,"endTime":432.419,"body":"that we saw in the a AI wars, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":432.419,"endTime":435.599,"body":"It wasn't the, we have another story"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":432.419,"endTime":435.599,"body":"involving Cursor and Microsoft,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":435.649,"endTime":436.459,"body":"oh, yes we do."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":436.459,"endTime":440.026,"body":"So, there's something that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":436.459,"endTime":440.026,"body":"happened very recently on the VS."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":440.026,"endTime":442.666,"body":"Code extension for c and c plus plus."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":442.916,"endTime":446.096,"body":"this is an extension that powers a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":442.916,"endTime":446.096,"body":"the entire, like the tooling within VS."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":446.096,"endTime":447.356,"body":"Code to work within that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":447.361,"endTime":450.901,"body":"That language as a very popular"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":447.361,"endTime":450.901,"body":"part of the ecosystem, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":451.201,"endTime":455.061,"body":"But recently, Microsoft, released"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":451.201,"endTime":455.061,"body":"agent mode for GitHub copilot."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":455.151,"endTime":459.231,"body":"And so this is GitHub copilot starting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":455.151,"endTime":459.231,"body":"to move into things like cursors"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":459.231,"endTime":461.637,"body":"territory, going back to our turf wars."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":461.817,"endTime":463.267,"body":"We just covered with search."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":463.267,"endTime":467.137,"body":"and, and with ai you have this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":463.267,"endTime":467.137,"body":"happening as well with, code assistance"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":467.317,"endTime":472.467,"body":"and so by, blocking the VS code"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":467.317,"endTime":472.467,"body":"extension from working in things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":472.467,"endTime":475.737,"body":"like cursor, which is entirely within"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":472.467,"endTime":475.737,"body":"like their realm and their right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":475.767,"endTime":478.107,"body":"'cause this is an extension"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":475.767,"endTime":478.107,"body":"they have developed and if they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":478.25,"endTime":478.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":478.617,"endTime":479.967,"body":"for their own applications."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":480.202,"endTime":485.302,"body":"They can, they haven't stopped cursor"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":480.202,"endTime":485.302,"body":"from using or adopting any, a different"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":485.302,"endTime":488.842,"body":"type of tool within the ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":485.302,"endTime":488.842,"body":"because there's lots of open source"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":488.842,"endTime":491.032,"body":"alternatives and they have since done so."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.092,"endTime":491.542,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.542,"endTime":495.302,"body":"So it really shows that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":491.542,"endTime":495.302,"body":"Microsoft might try to close a door"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":495.302,"endTime":498.482,"body":"to make less of an opportunistic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":495.302,"endTime":498.482,"body":"space for their competitor."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":498.482,"endTime":501.842,"body":"but because they also control so much"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":498.482,"endTime":501.842,"body":"of the ecosystem, they get to make moves"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":501.842,"endTime":505.442,"body":"like this that are quite fascinating"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":501.842,"endTime":505.442,"body":"that other companies can't quite do."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":506.16,"endTime":509.58,"body":"Yeah, I think the AI"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":506.16,"endTime":509.58,"body":"space is gonna get really cutthroat and"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":509.58,"endTime":512.88,"body":"we're just gonna see this competition"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":509.58,"endTime":512.88,"body":"heat up, especially with how much money."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":513.18,"endTime":513.99,"body":"Is on the line."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":514.27,"endTime":518.29,"body":"also given that nobody's established"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":514.27,"endTime":518.29,"body":"a defensible moat in this space yet."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":518.29,"endTime":521.8,"body":"So everyone is prone to being"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":518.29,"endTime":521.8,"body":"disrupted that operates here."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":522.28,"endTime":526.91,"body":"And I doubt it's a coincidence that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":522.28,"endTime":526.91,"body":"Microsoft Times this blocking with, or"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":526.91,"endTime":531.95,"body":"blocking the VS code extensions with the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":526.91,"endTime":531.95,"body":"release of their agentic mode for copilot."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":532.46,"endTime":535.19,"body":"And I think, on one hand it's a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":532.46,"endTime":535.19,"body":"lesson that all startups should"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":535.19,"endTime":538.64,"body":"learn, like it's cursor's fault for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":535.19,"endTime":538.64,"body":"relying on a competitor's product."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":538.97,"endTime":543.0,"body":"To build upon, I also understand why they"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":538.97,"endTime":543.0,"body":"made that decision it's a tiny company."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":543.0,"endTime":544.59,"body":"They don't have very many employees."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":544.59,"endTime":547.195,"body":"They bootstrap their way"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":544.59,"endTime":547.195,"body":"to, to where they are."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":547.405,"endTime":550.615,"body":"So it's a natural that they're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":547.405,"endTime":550.615,"body":"encounter growing pains like this."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":550.665,"endTime":553.365,"body":"and it also makes sense to me why"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":550.665,"endTime":553.365,"body":"they would adopt open source as"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":553.365,"endTime":557.565,"body":"the solution, you know, because"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":553.365,"endTime":557.565,"body":"it's, a lot lower barrier to entry."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":558.077,"endTime":559.247,"body":"Yeah, completely."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":559.785,"endTime":559.995,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":559.995,"endTime":564.285,"body":"So this week in Vibe coding, we have"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":559.995,"endTime":564.285,"body":"yet another story on vibe coding."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":564.285,"endTime":565.635,"body":"So what, what do we have, Andrew?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":566.357,"endTime":568.937,"body":"Okay, so this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":566.357,"endTime":568.937,"body":"a, a really great one that I read."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":568.937,"endTime":570.377,"body":"I also shared it on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":570.447,"endTime":571.947,"body":"it's from, comes from Pete Hodgson."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":572.007,"endTime":575.667,"body":"and it talks about a prompting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":572.007,"endTime":575.667,"body":"method within an agentic coding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":575.667,"endTime":579.907,"body":"tool like Cursor or GitHub, copilot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":575.667,"endTime":579.907,"body":"agent mode, called chain of."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":580.002,"endTime":580.572,"body":"Vibes."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":581.19,"endTime":581.48,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":581.592,"endTime":585.102,"body":"thesis here is that AI"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":581.592,"endTime":585.102,"body":"isn't ready for unsupervised coding."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":585.202,"endTime":589.372,"body":"And Pete found that a workflow called"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":585.202,"endTime":589.372,"body":"Chain of Vibes lets him maximize how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":589.372,"endTime":594.082,"body":"much he can lean on the AI for coding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":589.372,"endTime":594.082,"body":"while still having a really good rigid"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":594.082,"endTime":595.642,"body":"process with a human in the loop."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":596.062,"endTime":599.542,"body":"the approach consists of driving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":596.062,"endTime":599.542,"body":"the AI through a series of."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":599.592,"endTime":604.752,"body":"Very separate and very distinct,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":599.592,"endTime":604.752,"body":"but fully autonomous vibe, coding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":604.782,"endTime":609.072,"body":"changes that build upon each other,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":604.782,"endTime":609.072,"body":"and between each of them, there's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":609.072,"endTime":612.222,"body":"thorough human review to make sure"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":609.072,"endTime":612.222,"body":"that things haven't gone off the rails."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":612.222,"endTime":615.593,"body":"I, myself, have had a lot of luck,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":612.222,"endTime":615.593,"body":"with this kind of technique, and, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":615.598,"endTime":619.652,"body":"definitely encourage anyone experimenting,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":615.598,"endTime":619.652,"body":"with agentic coding to check that out."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":619.712,"endTime":621.572,"body":"But Ben, have you, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":619.712,"endTime":621.572,"body":"tried anything like that?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":621.91,"endTime":624.25,"body":"Yeah, I know you've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":621.91,"endTime":624.25,"body":"been using Agentic coding for a few"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":624.25,"endTime":627.82,"body":"weeks now, and it's been fascinating to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":624.25,"endTime":627.82,"body":"me just seeing secondhand, like learning"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":627.82,"endTime":629.5,"body":"from you what you've been doing with it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":629.83,"endTime":633.34,"body":"And as I mentioned earlier, like I just"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":629.83,"endTime":633.34,"body":"got into like Vibe coding or Agentic"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":633.82,"endTime":639.46,"body":"coding this week with Cursor, and it's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":633.82,"endTime":639.46,"body":"frankly been an eye-opening experience."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":639.49,"endTime":642.61,"body":"You know, I still haven't figured"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":639.49,"endTime":642.61,"body":"out really how to maximize the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":642.61,"endTime":646.925,"body":"use of things like rules to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":642.61,"endTime":646.925,"body":"facilitate better agentic coding."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":646.925,"endTime":650.275,"body":"Like this is kind of what Pete is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":646.925,"endTime":650.275,"body":"describing in this article, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":650.275,"endTime":654.985,"body":"It's, it's like having more discreet"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":650.275,"endTime":654.985,"body":"chunks of work that have rules that guide"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":654.985,"endTime":657.025,"body":"it in a human overseeing the process."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":657.291,"endTime":661.011,"body":"but it really does like mirror a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":657.291,"endTime":661.011,"body":"lot of the approach I've taken with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":661.011,"endTime":662.961,"body":"AI just even outside of coding."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":663.278,"endTime":663.698,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":663.726,"endTime":667.806,"body":"focus has always been"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":663.726,"endTime":667.806,"body":"on breaking down complex work into a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":667.806,"endTime":673.926,"body":"series of smaller steps that can easily be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":667.806,"endTime":673.926,"body":"handled by individually purpose-built gpt."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":674.256,"endTime":678.246,"body":"And the reason I do this is 'cause it"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":674.256,"endTime":678.246,"body":"improves consistency, but it also makes"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":678.246,"endTime":682.896,"body":"it much easier for you to inject human"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":678.246,"endTime":682.896,"body":"judgment into the loop to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":682.926,"endTime":687.849,"body":"the output from one GPT is good enough"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":682.926,"endTime":687.849,"body":"for the input of the next, and there's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":687.849,"endTime":691.049,"body":"a couple of other tips that really stood"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":687.849,"endTime":691.049,"body":"out to me, that are things that I've"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":691.049,"endTime":693.489,"body":"already adopted, clear context frequently."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":693.519,"endTime":697.599,"body":"Like personally, I treat almost every"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":693.519,"endTime":697.599,"body":"interaction with a GPT is ephemeral."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":697.629,"endTime":701.349,"body":"Like the moment that I'm done with"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":697.629,"endTime":701.349,"body":"it, it, it is deleted from existence,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":701.349,"endTime":702.999,"body":"or I never think of it again."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":703.329,"endTime":707.109,"body":"Or if I feel like it's going off the"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":703.329,"endTime":707.109,"body":"rails, like I just start over from,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":707.319,"endTime":709.799,"body":"from scratch with a fresh, GPT prompt."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":710.624,"endTime":710.834,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":710.834,"endTime":713.564,"body":"And then he also mentioned using"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":710.834,"endTime":713.564,"body":"the right AI for each task."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":713.564,"endTime":718.184,"body":"Like when you start breaking down these"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":713.564,"endTime":718.184,"body":"complex chains into discrete tasks,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":718.444,"endTime":722.404,"body":"you might end up finding out that one"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":718.444,"endTime":722.404,"body":"model works for a certain task much"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":722.404,"endTime":726.514,"body":"better than another model, but then for"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":722.404,"endTime":726.514,"body":"a different task, the reverse is true."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":726.514,"endTime":728.619,"body":"So, you know, I really like this approach."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":728.619,"endTime":732.769,"body":"Really makes it easy to set yourself"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":728.619,"endTime":732.769,"body":"up for success, but also experiment"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":732.769,"endTime":734.239,"body":"with the tools that are out there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":734.931,"endTime":737.901,"body":"Yeah, this article"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":734.931,"endTime":737.901,"body":"does a really good job of kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":737.901,"endTime":741.591,"body":"setting the perspective correctly of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":737.901,"endTime":741.591,"body":"what you should be thinking when you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":741.591,"endTime":746.847,"body":"open a tool like Cursor or when you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":741.591,"endTime":746.847,"body":"go to Amazon Q, in your command line."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":746.911,"endTime":748.681,"body":"when you open an IDE now."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":748.686,"endTime":750.366,"body":"That has these capabilities."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":750.636,"endTime":753.666,"body":"You know, you're putting on more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":750.636,"endTime":753.666,"body":"of a product manager hat than"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":753.719,"endTime":754.139,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":754.236,"endTime":755.316,"body":"a developer hat."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":755.616,"endTime":759.726,"body":"Instead of focusing on the exact code"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":755.616,"endTime":759.726,"body":"lines that you're going to write,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":759.726,"endTime":763.596,"body":"you're instead focused on what is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":759.726,"endTime":763.596,"body":"the purpose of what I'm building?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":763.836,"endTime":767.736,"body":"What's the intended impact and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":763.836,"endTime":767.736,"body":"what do I need in order to get."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":767.736,"endTime":768.171,"body":"There."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":768.201,"endTime":772.131,"body":"And then your, goal becomes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":768.201,"endTime":772.131,"body":"really as that product manager"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":772.281,"endTime":777.831,"body":"to rally all of that information"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":772.281,"endTime":777.831,"body":"together and get everyone on board."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":777.831,"endTime":781.761,"body":"And when I say everyone, I mean"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":777.831,"endTime":781.761,"body":"all of these ephemeral little chats"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":781.761,"endTime":783.171,"body":"that you're about to have, like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":783.209,"endTime":783.499,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":783.561,"endTime":787.231,"body":"just described with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":783.561,"endTime":787.231,"body":"the IDE, and, and another guide"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":787.231,"endTime":790.271,"body":"that, or two sets of guides actually"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":787.231,"endTime":790.271,"body":"that go really well in depth with."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":790.291,"endTime":792.091,"body":"This, they're from Joffrey Hunter."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":792.091,"endTime":792.871,"body":"They're on his website."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":792.871,"endTime":795.571,"body":"We've actually linked them"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":792.871,"endTime":795.571,"body":"before in the download."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":795.761,"endTime":797.777,"body":"so we'll be sure to link back"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":795.761,"endTime":797.777,"body":"to those as well if, if you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":797.777,"endTime":799.307,"body":"haven't, uh, checked those out."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":799.567,"endTime":803.017,"body":"it breaks it down into a really,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":799.567,"endTime":803.017,"body":"repeatable method similar to what Pete"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":803.017,"endTime":804.697,"body":"Hodgson is kind of touching on here."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":804.697,"endTime":808.037,"body":"and you start really by, understanding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":804.697,"endTime":808.037,"body":"what it is that you're building and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":808.037,"endTime":812.897,"body":"writing very clear documentation for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":808.037,"endTime":812.897,"body":"yourself and for the agent to use."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":813.197,"endTime":817.787,"body":"then you spend some time writing the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":813.197,"endTime":817.787,"body":"bounds and the rules and the constraints"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":817.847,"endTime":819.527,"body":"of what you're building in cursor."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":819.527,"endTime":822.167,"body":"This might even mean writing rules"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":819.527,"endTime":822.167,"body":"for the project you're doing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":822.497,"endTime":825.887,"body":"And then finally, you're gonna iterate"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":822.497,"endTime":825.887,"body":"across all of those ephemeral sessions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":826.067,"endTime":828.227,"body":"You're going to reference"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":826.067,"endTime":828.227,"body":"that well-written spec."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":828.347,"endTime":831.407,"body":"You're gonna point to the, to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":828.347,"endTime":831.407,"body":"those strong well-defined rules."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":831.557,"endTime":833.567,"body":"And you're gonna iterate until"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":831.557,"endTime":833.567,"body":"you get the results you want."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":833.627,"endTime":837.527,"body":"Reviewing every step of the way to make"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":833.627,"endTime":837.527,"body":"sure that you don't, of course, get slop"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":837.527,"endTime":839.747,"body":"squatted, like we mentioned earlier."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":839.957,"endTime":843.287,"body":"So, really kind of changes your whole"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":839.957,"endTime":843.287,"body":"perspective about what you're doing when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":843.287,"endTime":847.407,"body":"you go into the IDE and it, it really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":843.287,"endTime":847.407,"body":"makes me wonder, from to, from to our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":847.407,"endTime":851.667,"body":"listeners, you know, are you experimenting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":847.407,"endTime":851.667,"body":"with a agentic coding right now too?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":851.667,"endTime":854.277,"body":"I think a lot of people are trying"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":851.667,"endTime":854.277,"body":"it out for the first time, and we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":854.277,"endTime":855.897,"body":"want to hear about your experiences."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":856.137,"endTime":859.837,"body":"I'm personally posting on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":856.137,"endTime":859.837,"body":"every week, and, and learning with,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":859.847,"endTime":863.717,"body":"others in the open about how to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":859.847,"endTime":863.717,"body":"use things like Cursor, Amazon Q."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":863.747,"endTime":865.517,"body":"Windsurf, all these other tools."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":865.697,"endTime":868.357,"body":"So come learn with us and,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":865.697,"endTime":868.357,"body":"share your experiences too."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":868.955,"endTime":871.385,"body":"Yeah, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":868.955,"endTime":871.385,"body":"learning right now, and this is a"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":871.385,"endTime":875.345,"body":"good time to remind our audience"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":871.385,"endTime":875.345,"body":"that we have a Substack newsletter"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":875.345,"endTime":878.705,"body":"where we share a lot of these stories"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":875.345,"endTime":878.705,"body":"as well as a, a LinkedIn community"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":878.705,"endTime":880.015,"body":"where we're sharing this as well."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":880.415,"endTime":883.355,"body":"so if you wanna be the first to find"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":880.415,"endTime":883.355,"body":"out about all these great guides"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":883.355,"endTime":886.415,"body":"and, and get these tips delivered"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":883.355,"endTime":886.415,"body":"straight to your inbox, make sure"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":886.415,"endTime":888.245,"body":"you're subscribed to our substack."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":888.245,"endTime":889.745,"body":"It's the best way to get all this news."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":890.735,"endTime":894.995,"body":"So we got a bonus story too, and I wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":890.735,"endTime":894.995,"body":"to include this one because I like to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":894.995,"endTime":897.695,"body":"walk and I use crosswalks frequently."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":898.415,"endTime":899.345,"body":"What is the bonus story?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":899.345,"endTime":900.305,"body":"This week, Andrew?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":900.892,"endTime":902.912,"body":"Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":900.892,"endTime":902.912,"body":"this is a really weird one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":902.989,"endTime":907.459,"body":"recently in Seattle, some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":902.989,"endTime":907.459,"body":"crosswalks appeared to have been, been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":907.459,"endTime":911.389,"body":"hacked, and people at first were not quite"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":907.459,"endTime":911.389,"body":"sure how this happened, but when you would"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":911.389,"endTime":914.699,"body":"go to the crosswalks on some intersections"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":911.389,"endTime":914.699,"body":"and press the button, instead of it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":914.699,"endTime":919.319,"body":"telling you to wait or to cross, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":914.699,"endTime":919.319,"body":"instead you were greeted by a deep faked"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":919.319,"endTime":922.859,"body":"voice of Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk or other."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":922.909,"endTime":926.989,"body":"Tech billionaires and they'd be talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":922.909,"endTime":926.989,"body":"to you about all sorts of stuff."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":927.229,"endTime":932.239,"body":"And this is a neat assortment of weird"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":927.229,"endTime":932.239,"body":"technology all coming together to create"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":932.359,"endTime":934.549,"body":"what was ultimately a viral moment."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":934.549,"endTime":937.609,"body":"Because when you boil it down,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":934.549,"endTime":937.609,"body":"it's a very simple vulnerability"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":937.609,"endTime":939.229,"body":"actually, that they took advantage of."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":939.509,"endTime":942.839,"body":"it turns out that a crosswalk"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":939.509,"endTime":942.839,"body":"is a lot like a router."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":942.839,"endTime":946.529,"body":"It comes with factory settings,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":942.839,"endTime":946.529,"body":"including a factory login over"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":946.589,"endTime":947.879,"body":"a technology like Bluetooth."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":948.012,"endTime":951.892,"body":"so it really was probably just as simple"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":948.012,"endTime":951.892,"body":"as somebody who knew the model of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":951.892,"endTime":956.242,"body":"crosswalk and had their Bluetooth open"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":951.892,"endTime":956.242,"body":"and was able to connect with a default."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":956.502,"endTime":958.692,"body":"Password and username to it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":958.692,"endTime":961.702,"body":"And then once they're in, they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":958.692,"endTime":961.702,"body":"could upload, you know, an MP3"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":961.932,"endTime":964.732,"body":"of what it should play, when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":961.932,"endTime":964.732,"body":"the crosswalk button is pressed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":964.732,"endTime":970.052,"body":"But what makes this a very impressive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":964.732,"endTime":970.052,"body":"and very interesting, usage of technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":970.052,"endTime":974.922,"body":"is ultimately They used, modern tools"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":970.052,"endTime":974.922,"body":"like AI to deep fake these voices."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":975.072,"endTime":979.152,"body":"They used very modern tools and the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":975.072,"endTime":979.152,"body":"things that we're all worried about in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":979.152,"endTime":984.762,"body":"terms of like misinformation to rapidly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":979.152,"endTime":984.762,"body":"create a high impact message that then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":984.972,"endTime":987.222,"body":"hacked something more than the crosswalk."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":987.402,"endTime":988.722,"body":"It hacked social media."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":988.777,"endTime":990.727,"body":"Because it became a viral story."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":990.907,"endTime":994.147,"body":"Suddenly you had people going out to these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":990.907,"endTime":994.147,"body":"crosswalks and recording it and sharing it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":994.147,"endTime":996.787,"body":"on X and on Blue Sky and all these places."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":996.787,"endTime":998.407,"body":"look what this crosswalk is saying."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":998.527,"endTime":1000.357,"body":"And then the whole world"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":998.527,"endTime":1000.357,"body":"was talking about it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1000.357,"endTime":1004.347,"body":"Now we're talking about it, and that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1000.357,"endTime":1004.347,"body":"ultimately what this kind of hacking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1004.347,"endTime":1008.277,"body":"in the wild is all about, is making a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1004.347,"endTime":1008.277,"body":"message known using the tools available."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1008.577,"endTime":1010.287,"body":"So quite a fascinating one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1010.287,"endTime":1011.037,"body":"What do you think Ben?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1011.41,"endTime":1011.65,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1011.65,"endTime":1016.03,"body":"So first of all, I want to just say"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1011.65,"endTime":1016.03,"body":"put this out there, like safety first."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1016.03,"endTime":1019.18,"body":"Like, if you're gonna do something"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1016.03,"endTime":1019.18,"body":"like this, please don't screw"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1019.18,"endTime":1022.6,"body":"up the crosswalk so that like"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1019.18,"endTime":1022.6,"body":"a disabled person can't use it."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1022.63,"endTime":1026.749,"body":"Like, It's already dangerous enough being"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1022.63,"endTime":1026.749,"body":"a pedestrian in many American cities."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1027.209,"endTime":1029.279,"body":"but you know, this is"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1027.209,"endTime":1029.279,"body":"a tale as old as time."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1029.279,"endTime":1032.579,"body":"Like somebody's setting up a piece"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1029.279,"endTime":1032.579,"body":"of digital equipment and just not"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1032.579,"endTime":1035.489,"body":"bothering to change the default password."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1035.489,"endTime":1037.899,"body":"Like, come on, that's,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1035.489,"endTime":1037.899,"body":"it's like security 101."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1037.919,"endTime":1040.859,"body":"Like nobody should ever be"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1037.919,"endTime":1040.859,"body":"doing that in this day and age."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1041.609,"endTime":1045.597,"body":"Um, but, the AI brings a, a,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1041.609,"endTime":1045.597,"body":"a very new twist to this and."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1045.992,"endTime":1050.532,"body":"You and I have been talking about this"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1045.992,"endTime":1050.532,"body":"concept of code as art, as code gets more"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1050.532,"endTime":1055.102,"body":"accessible to more audiences, through ai,"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1050.532,"endTime":1055.102,"body":"I really get the sense that we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1055.102,"endTime":1061.132,"body":"see more emergences of people just using"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1055.102,"endTime":1061.132,"body":"AI and using code and unique ways that"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1061.162,"endTime":1063.202,"body":"we had never really considered before."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1063.262,"endTime":1066.472,"body":"Again, going back to like our lop"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1063.262,"endTime":1066.472,"body":"squatting example, there's lots"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1066.472,"endTime":1068.342,"body":"of unknown unknowns out there."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1069.047,"endTime":1071.627,"body":"AI's gonna keep opening"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1069.047,"endTime":1071.627,"body":"up New attack vectors."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1071.897,"endTime":1073.157,"body":"Stay tuned to Dev Interrupted."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1073.157,"endTime":1076.119,"body":"We're gonna keep you on top of"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1073.157,"endTime":1076.119,"body":"all the stories as they develop."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1076.119,"endTime":1077.884,"body":"So Andrew, who's our guest this week,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1078.501,"endTime":1079.011,"body":"Oh yes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1079.011,"endTime":1081.051,"body":"This week's guest is a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1079.011,"endTime":1081.051,"body":"really interesting one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1081.261,"endTime":1085.851,"body":"We have Russ D'sa, the CEO and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1081.261,"endTime":1085.851,"body":"Co-founder of Live Kit, and he's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1085.851,"endTime":1089.421,"body":"really pulling back the curtain on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1085.851,"endTime":1089.421,"body":"where the future of AI is heading."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1089.421,"endTime":1091.761,"body":"And I don't mean just in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1089.421,"endTime":1091.761,"body":"the chat bots that we, I."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1091.989,"endTime":1092.109,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1092.526,"endTime":1095.316,"body":"Interact with now, or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1092.526,"endTime":1095.316,"body":"even the agents that people are building"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1095.316,"endTime":1099.606,"body":"and everyone wants to talk about, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1095.316,"endTime":1099.606,"body":"instead interacting with us on our terms."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1099.756,"endTime":1104.586,"body":"Being able to see, hear, feel, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1099.756,"endTime":1104.586,"body":"understand from the real world using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1104.586,"endTime":1108.336,"body":"multimodal inputs and the impact"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1104.586,"endTime":1108.336,"body":"of this technology is profound."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1108.696,"endTime":1111.606,"body":"Talk about saving lives"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1108.696,"endTime":1111.606,"body":"even on 9 1 1 calls."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1111.696,"endTime":1112.476,"body":"So stick around."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1112.476,"endTime":1113.496,"body":"You don't wanna miss this one."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1114.755,"endTime":1116.555,"body":"Are your"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1114.755,"endTime":1116.555,"body":"code reviews slowing you down?"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1116.96,"endTime":1120.68,"body":"With LinearB automations, you can"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1116.96,"endTime":1120.68,"body":"transform the way your teams review"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1120.68,"endTime":1125.0,"body":"code with automatic AI powered"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1120.68,"endTime":1125.0,"body":"PR descriptions and code reviews."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1125.03,"endTime":1128.18,"body":"Your developers get instant"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1125.03,"endTime":1128.18,"body":"feedback on every pull request."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1128.75,"endTime":1132.68,"body":"Combine that with smart AI orchestration"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1128.75,"endTime":1132.68,"body":"and you can cut the noise and boost"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1132.68,"endTime":1137.66,"body":"your productivity LinearB AI flags"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1132.68,"endTime":1137.66,"body":"bugs suggests improvements and keeps"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1137.66,"endTime":1140.6,"body":"your team focused on what really"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1137.66,"endTime":1140.6,"body":"matters, building great software."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1140.96,"endTime":1144.89,"body":"Say goodbye to review fatigue and hello"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1140.96,"endTime":1144.89,"body":"to faster, higher quality delivery."},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1145.385,"endTime":1148.805,"body":"Head over to LinearB.io to"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1145.385,"endTime":1148.805,"body":"learn more about incorporating"},{"speaker":"Ben Lloyd Pearson","startTime":1148.865,"endTime":1150.545,"body":"AI into your code reviews."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1152.996,"endTime":1153.986,"body":"Hey, everyone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1154.016,"endTime":1159.026,"body":"Joining us today is Russ d'Sa,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1154.016,"endTime":1159.026,"body":"the co-founder and CEO of LiveKit."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1159.336,"endTime":1163.386,"body":"Where they're building the nervous"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1159.336,"endTime":1163.386,"body":"system for multimodal technology that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1163.386,"endTime":1167.046,"body":"interacts with the world through voice,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1163.386,"endTime":1167.046,"body":"vision, and real time understanding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1167.526,"endTime":1169.186,"body":"and what they're building at LiveKit."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1169.206,"endTime":1173.976,"body":"It's not just about its applications in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1169.206,"endTime":1173.976,"body":"ai, it's about how all modern systems are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1173.976,"endTime":1176.136,"body":"starting to sense, interpret, and act."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1176.426,"endTime":1180.236,"body":"In real time, and to give our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1176.426,"endTime":1180.236,"body":"listeners a sense of this technology's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1180.236,"endTime":1181.676,"body":"impact just right off the bat."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1181.856,"endTime":1185.936,"body":"You know, right now LiveKit delivers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1181.856,"endTime":1185.936,"body":"voice to millions of chat CPT users."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1186.146,"endTime":1189.596,"body":"It even saves lives on 9 1"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1186.146,"endTime":1189.596,"body":"1 emergency calls, and we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1189.596,"endTime":1190.826,"body":"gonna talk a bit about that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1191.186,"endTime":1195.026,"body":"It's also used in live streaming and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1191.186,"endTime":1195.026,"body":"robotic systems across the world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1195.416,"endTime":1199.346,"body":"And in today's chat with Russ, we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1195.416,"endTime":1199.346,"body":"diving into the major shift that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1199.346,"endTime":1201.176,"body":"happening in software development that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1201.176,"endTime":1205.856,"body":"It's currently underway and learning"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1201.176,"endTime":1205.856,"body":"how your team can embrace those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1205.856,"endTime":1207.866,"body":"multimodal opportunities in your work."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1208.046,"endTime":1209.906,"body":"So Russ, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1210.739,"endTime":1211.759,"body":"Thank you so much, Andrew."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1211.819,"endTime":1215.719,"body":"It's uh, lovely to be here and, hi"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1211.819,"endTime":1215.719,"body":"to, to all of the listeners as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1216.451,"endTime":1217.321,"body":"It's great to have you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1217.321,"endTime":1220.764,"body":"And you know, Russ, you and I had such"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1217.321,"endTime":1220.764,"body":"a great, chat and preparation for this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1221.034,"endTime":1222.594,"body":"you know, your take on technology."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1222.654,"endTime":1223.824,"body":"It was really refreshing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1223.824,"endTime":1224.784,"body":"It stuck with me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1225.024,"endTime":1228.914,"body":"I've been really excited to bring you onto"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1225.024,"endTime":1228.914,"body":"the show, especially this idea that, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1228.914,"endTime":1233.414,"body":"put in my head about how we're outgrowing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1228.914,"endTime":1233.414,"body":"a traditional request response model."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1233.864,"endTime":1236.654,"body":"And I wanna dive into that a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1233.864,"endTime":1236.654,"body":"bit in our conversation today."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1236.654,"endTime":1240.074,"body":"But first, I think to benefit our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1236.654,"endTime":1240.074,"body":"listeners, let's zoom out a little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1240.074,"endTime":1241.334,"body":"bit 'cause we've been talking about."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1241.334,"endTime":1244.744,"body":"The shift into a real"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1241.334,"endTime":1244.744,"body":"time multimodal world."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1245.435,"endTime":1248.015,"body":"there is this huge"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1245.435,"endTime":1248.015,"body":"shift happening with technology"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1248.405,"endTime":1253.035,"body":"and not something that I"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1248.405,"endTime":1253.035,"body":"foresaw when we started LiveKit."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1253.055,"endTime":1257.575,"body":"but then something that kind of ended"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1253.055,"endTime":1257.575,"body":"up happening, for me, that was what we"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1257.575,"endTime":1262.625,"body":"started to do with open AI and, building"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1257.575,"endTime":1262.625,"body":"voice mode with them for chat GPT."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1263.345,"endTime":1266.14,"body":"And it was at that moment that I kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1263.345,"endTime":1266.14,"body":"of like looked up a little bit and I"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1266.145,"endTime":1267.335,"body":"was like, well, where does all this go?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1267.335,"endTime":1267.575,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1267.575,"endTime":1268.655,"body":"Like, this is a really cool feature."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1268.655,"endTime":1273.565,"body":"I can talk to an ai, you know, using my"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1268.655,"endTime":1273.565,"body":"voice, but where is all of this headed?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1273.565,"endTime":1280.075,"body":"And I think the thing that I realized,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1273.565,"endTime":1280.075,"body":"back then, this was like August, 2023."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1280.075,"endTime":1287.905,"body":"Is that the internet or let's say"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1280.075,"endTime":1287.905,"body":"the web really was not built for"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1289.075,"endTime":1291.595,"body":"multimodal real time audio video."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1291.595,"endTime":1291.925,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1291.925,"endTime":1297.445,"body":"It When you type into the browser,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1291.925,"endTime":1297.445,"body":"http colon slash slash like what you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1297.445,"endTime":1300.985,"body":"typing in is you're typing in a protocol"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1297.445,"endTime":1300.985,"body":"there and that protocol HTTP stands"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1300.985,"endTime":1304.105,"body":"for Hyper Text Transfer Protocol."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1304.435,"endTime":1308.315,"body":"What you're doing is you're taking"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1304.435,"endTime":1308.315,"body":"text and you're transferring it, from"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1308.315,"endTime":1310.055,"body":"one computer to another computer."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1310.475,"endTime":1317.945,"body":"It's not hyper voice transfer protocol or"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1310.475,"endTime":1317.945,"body":"hyper video or vision transfer protocol."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1317.945,"endTime":1319.175,"body":"It's hyper text."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1319.565,"endTime":1324.275,"body":"And so, you know, just that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1319.565,"endTime":1324.275,"body":"word is telling like the way"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1324.695,"endTime":1327.935,"body":"transferring high bandwidth data,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1324.695,"endTime":1327.935,"body":"like audio and video over a network."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1328.605,"endTime":1334.485,"body":"It fundamentally requires a different"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1328.605,"endTime":1334.485,"body":"approach, a different paradigm than"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1334.485,"endTime":1336.405,"body":"transferring text over the network."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1336.735,"endTime":1339.315,"body":"The way that we interact with"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1336.735,"endTime":1339.315,"body":"computers today, for the most"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1339.315,"endTime":1340.725,"body":"part, is we open a browser."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1341.005,"endTime":1342.265,"body":"not every single use case, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1342.265,"endTime":1345.145,"body":"Like we use Zoom sometimes and we"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1342.265,"endTime":1345.145,"body":"use Discord and all of that stuff."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1345.145,"endTime":1348.565,"body":"So it's, we are definitely"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1345.145,"endTime":1348.565,"body":"transferring audio and video for some"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1348.565,"endTime":1350.185,"body":"of these applications that we use."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1350.185,"endTime":1353.815,"body":"But predominantly what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1350.185,"endTime":1353.815,"body":"is you're in a web browser, you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1353.815,"endTime":1355.855,"body":"navigating to a webpage, you are."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1356.5,"endTime":1360.34,"body":"Clicking, uh, into a form, you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1356.5,"endTime":1360.34,"body":"filling out some fields, you're clicking"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1360.34,"endTime":1362.7,"body":"submit, or other buttons on that page."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1363.15,"endTime":1364.38,"body":"and that."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1364.99,"endTime":1369.31,"body":"kind of paradigm or interaction"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1364.99,"endTime":1369.31,"body":"model is the stateless web"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1369.31,"endTime":1370.63,"body":"application model, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1370.63,"endTime":1375.79,"body":"So you click a button, some text is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1370.63,"endTime":1375.79,"body":"transferred to a server, somewhere"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1376.06,"endTime":1377.59,"body":"that server receives that text."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1377.59,"endTime":1381.03,"body":"And what you want to do, it looks"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1377.59,"endTime":1381.03,"body":"up who you are in a database."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1381.33,"endTime":1384.0,"body":"It has some side effects that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1381.33,"endTime":1384.0,"body":"are generated, so it runs"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1384.0,"endTime":1385.26,"body":"through some business logic."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1385.26,"endTime":1388.2,"body":"Say that you are, um, trying to get"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1385.26,"endTime":1388.2,"body":"a reservation at a restaurant, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1388.56,"endTime":1392.46,"body":"And it's looking up like, are"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1388.56,"endTime":1392.46,"body":"there spaces available at that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1392.46,"endTime":1394.35,"body":"restaurant for your party size?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1394.53,"endTime":1398.86,"body":"And then if there are, then it's going"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1394.53,"endTime":1398.86,"body":"to, put a record in the database for"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1398.86,"endTime":1402.4,"body":"that time slot for that restaurant"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1398.86,"endTime":1402.4,"body":"saying that you have the reservation"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1402.55,"endTime":1406.4,"body":"and then it's gonna send back some text,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1402.55,"endTime":1406.4,"body":"that gets rendered on that, uh, that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1406.4,"endTime":1410.34,"body":"website that you're on saying you have"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1406.4,"endTime":1410.34,"body":"booked your table, show up at this time."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1410.964,"endTime":1414.414,"body":"That's not really a latency sensitive"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1410.964,"endTime":1414.414,"body":"application, and most of the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1414.414,"endTime":1416.274,"body":"applications on the web today are not."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1416.374,"endTime":1419.374,"body":"The way that you're going to interact"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1416.374,"endTime":1419.374,"body":"with computers in the future, right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1419.374,"endTime":1420.304,"body":"At a high level."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1420.694,"endTime":1426.499,"body":"What we're trying to build, I. I guess,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1420.694,"endTime":1426.499,"body":"you know, in society now is AGI, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1426.709,"endTime":1431.719,"body":"if we're trying to build AGI like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1426.709,"endTime":1431.719,"body":"what is AGI, in my opinion, I."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1432.964,"endTime":1435.064,"body":"Humans are tool builders, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1435.064,"endTime":1440.974,"body":"We create these things like hammers and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1435.064,"endTime":1440.974,"body":"nails and screwdrivers and planks of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1440.974,"endTime":1444.674,"body":"wood and all this stuff so that we can"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1440.974,"endTime":1444.674,"body":"construct things and solve problems."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1444.724,"endTime":1448.704,"body":"And what we're building now, is,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1444.724,"endTime":1448.704,"body":"we're kind of building the ultimate"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1448.704,"endTime":1449.934,"body":"tool, which is a tool builder."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1449.964,"endTime":1453.444,"body":"We're building ourselves"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1449.964,"endTime":1453.444,"body":"right, the mirror in some ways."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1453.444,"endTime":1456.204,"body":"And, it's a computer that can like."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1457.599,"endTime":1459.219,"body":"Behave like a human being."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1459.219,"endTime":1460.629,"body":"Talk like a human being."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1460.629,"endTime":1464.619,"body":"You know, maybe in its ultimate form is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1460.629,"endTime":1464.619,"body":"indistinguishable from a human being."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1465.152,"endTime":1468.122,"body":"not trying to like do any scare"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1465.152,"endTime":1468.122,"body":"fearmongering or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1468.122,"endTime":1471.542,"body":"It's just like, it, it's a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1468.122,"endTime":1471.542,"body":"computer that very much behaves"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1471.542,"endTime":1472.832,"body":"like in mimics a human being."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1473.522,"endTime":1477.752,"body":"And when computers were kind of these."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1478.592,"endTime":1480.002,"body":"as intelligent machines."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1480.692,"endTime":1484.802,"body":"We had to create something like a keyboard"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1480.692,"endTime":1484.802,"body":"and a mouse and adapt our own behavior."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1484.802,"endTime":1487.592,"body":"I know, you know, you're probably"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1484.802,"endTime":1487.592,"body":"a bit younger than me, but I"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1487.592,"endTime":1490.172,"body":"had to take in school, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1490.172,"endTime":1492.782,"body":"Where I didn't need to learn how"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1490.172,"endTime":1492.782,"body":"to type on this layout of keys."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1493.022,"endTime":1497.762,"body":"Like we have to adapt our behavior and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1493.022,"endTime":1497.762,"body":"learn how to give the computer information"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1497.762,"endTime":1503.132,"body":"so that we can use it as a tool to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1497.762,"endTime":1503.132,"body":"help us right the bicycle of the mind."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1503.522,"endTime":1503.742,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1504.46,"endTime":1506.59,"body":"To use Steve"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1504.46,"endTime":1506.59,"body":"Jobs's kind of phrasing."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1506.77,"endTime":1508.66,"body":"Now we're almost creating the mind itself."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1508.66,"endTime":1512.89,"body":"And if like you are, if you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1508.66,"endTime":1512.89,"body":"are gonna build a computer that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1512.89,"endTime":1517.06,"body":"is as smart as a human right,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1512.89,"endTime":1517.06,"body":"longer have to adapt yourself."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1517.11,"endTime":1519.63,"body":"The computer actually"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1517.11,"endTime":1519.63,"body":"will adapt itself to you."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1520.05,"endTime":1526.26,"body":"And the way that you give information and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1520.05,"endTime":1526.26,"body":"communicate with other human beings is the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1526.26,"endTime":1530.75,"body":"way that you're probably gonna communicate"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1526.26,"endTime":1530.75,"body":"and behave, or give information to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1530.75,"endTime":1533.06,"body":"that computer that is very human-like."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1533.54,"endTime":1535.61,"body":"and so humans use eyes, ears, and mouths."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1542.47,"body":"the computer of the future is going to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1536.05,"endTime":1542.47,"body":"use cameras, microphones, and speakers."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1542.53,"endTime":1542.8,"body":"Those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1542.8,"endTime":1543.58,"body":"are the equivalent"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1543.58,"endTime":1547.45,"body":"sensors to kind of the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1543.58,"endTime":1547.45,"body":"human's, eyes, ears, and mouths."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1547.87,"endTime":1551.71,"body":"If you're going to build a computer"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1547.87,"endTime":1551.71,"body":"that takes in natural human input and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1551.71,"endTime":1556.265,"body":"output in the same way or a similar"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1551.71,"endTime":1556.265,"body":"way, you have to almost change."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1557.365,"endTime":1561.235,"body":"The way that you build applications"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1557.365,"endTime":1561.235,"body":"for that computer, right,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1561.235,"endTime":1562.555,"body":"that run on that computer."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1562.825,"endTime":1566.745,"body":"It's not, where I click a button and then"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1562.825,"endTime":1566.745,"body":"I wait, and then like a database kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1566.745,"endTime":1569.865,"body":"of looks up information and some actions"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1566.745,"endTime":1569.865,"body":"are taken, and then a response gets"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1569.865,"endTime":1571.865,"body":"generated some number of seconds later."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1572.485,"endTime":1573.315,"body":"This is."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1573.69,"endTime":1577.05,"body":"sim more similar to how you and I are"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1573.69,"endTime":1577.05,"body":"communicating with one another right now."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1577.05,"endTime":1578.82,"body":"Like you are constantly listening to me."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1578.82,"endTime":1580.11,"body":"I have your attention,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1580.237,"endTime":1580.657,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1581.25,"endTime":1584.25,"body":"figuring out whether I'm"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1581.25,"endTime":1584.25,"body":"done speaking or not, or whether you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1584.25,"endTime":1586.5,"body":"should interrupt with the next question."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1586.8,"endTime":1587.91,"body":"You are you."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1587.995,"endTime":1591.715,"body":"Keeping this rolling context,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1587.995,"endTime":1591.715,"body":"growing in your mind of everything"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1591.715,"endTime":1594.445,"body":"that I'm saying, and you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1591.715,"endTime":1594.445,"body":"committing some of it to memory."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1594.445,"endTime":1597.985,"body":"And you're gonna come back to maybe"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1594.445,"endTime":1597.985,"body":"something that I said or focus in on it."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1598.285,"endTime":1603.245,"body":"It's this constant connection and the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1598.285,"endTime":1603.245,"body":"data is streaming to you, throughout"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1603.245,"endTime":1607.895,"body":"this entire time that we're talking"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1603.245,"endTime":1607.895,"body":"and your processing it in your mind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1607.895,"endTime":1611.345,"body":"and also at the same time listening to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1607.895,"endTime":1611.345,"body":"new information that's coming to you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1611.395,"endTime":1613.105,"body":"From my mouth and through my movement."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1613.495,"endTime":1616.495,"body":"And so if you're gonna build"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1613.495,"endTime":1616.495,"body":"applications for that future, they're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1616.495,"endTime":1617.725,"body":"gonna look just very different."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1618.56,"endTime":1622.1,"body":"So when we're talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1618.56,"endTime":1622.1,"body":"about shifting, how people are looking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1622.1,"endTime":1626.45,"body":"at, are we gonna be using technology in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1622.1,"endTime":1626.45,"body":"the future, it's really a fundamental"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1626.45,"endTime":1631.1,"body":"shift from getting outta the box that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1626.45,"endTime":1631.1,"body":"we put ourselves in, of using text and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1631.1,"endTime":1634.67,"body":"converting everything in our world to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1631.1,"endTime":1634.67,"body":"text, to talk to a machine, which is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1634.67,"endTime":1638.99,"body":"the traditional model, and more about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1634.67,"endTime":1638.99,"body":"opening it up and bringing, elevating"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1638.99,"endTime":1641.33,"body":"the model or, or rather the computer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1641.935,"endTime":1646.135,"body":"Up to our level, allowing it to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1641.935,"endTime":1646.135,"body":"participate in our own senses, have that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1646.135,"endTime":1651.395,"body":"same kind of understanding of the world,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1646.135,"endTime":1651.395,"body":"and then it unlocks, new use cases,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1651.455,"endTime":1656.515,"body":"more ability for that technology to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1651.455,"endTime":1656.515,"body":"have impact on our world and everything"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1656.515,"endTime":1659.825,"body":"that you're building so far, of course"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1656.515,"endTime":1659.825,"body":"there's the trend of, of what you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1659.825,"endTime":1663.88,"body":"describing, of ultimately, a very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1659.825,"endTime":1663.88,"body":"intelligent machine is going to need"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1663.88,"endTime":1666.34,"body":"very intelligent senses to interact."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1666.545,"endTime":1667.625,"body":"With our world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1667.935,"endTime":1673.935,"body":"but along the way there are so many"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1667.935,"endTime":1673.935,"body":"use cases as well that evolve and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1673.935,"endTime":1679.365,"body":"unfold once you bring sensory input"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1673.935,"endTime":1679.365,"body":"into the conversation and you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1679.365,"endTime":1680.685,"body":"sitting right at like the helm of that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1680.685,"endTime":1684.565,"body":"You're seeing it, being applied and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1680.685,"endTime":1684.565,"body":"used in a lot of different places."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1684.565,"endTime":1690.065,"body":"What are you think the strongest or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1684.565,"endTime":1690.065,"body":"most impactful use cases, that you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1690.065,"endTime":1693.545,"body":"like to tell people about that this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1690.065,"endTime":1693.545,"body":"technology is transforming today?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1695.068,"endTime":1699.533,"body":"So my favorite use case is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1695.068,"endTime":1699.533,"body":"actually the one that I think would tie"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1699.533,"endTime":1705.048,"body":"in very closely or most closely with"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1699.533,"endTime":1705.048,"body":"what you were just saying about how."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1706.038,"endTime":1709.788,"body":"this kind of new paradigm or way you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1706.038,"endTime":1709.788,"body":"interact with the computer and what,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1710.158,"endTime":1714.508,"body":"kind of abilities it is imbued with"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1710.158,"endTime":1714.508,"body":"now that it has kind of human level"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1714.508,"endTime":1717.958,"body":"senses of vision and, uh, and hearing."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1718.378,"endTime":1722.358,"body":"I think it's self-evident"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1718.378,"endTime":1722.358,"body":"in, this 9 1 1 use case."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1722.388,"endTime":1723.158,"body":"So LiveKit."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1724.518,"endTime":1728.838,"body":"Today is used by about 25% of 9 1 1."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1728.838,"endTime":1730.248,"body":"So 9 1 1 calls, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1730.605,"endTime":1730.995,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1731.368,"endTime":1734.228,"body":"there's a company"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1731.368,"endTime":1734.228,"body":"out there, called prepared."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1734.228,"endTime":1739.038,"body":"And what they do is they deploy,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1734.228,"endTime":1739.038,"body":"LiveKit server, our media server in."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1740.163,"endTime":1743.643,"body":"Dispatch centers around the country,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1740.163,"endTime":1743.643,"body":"so about a quarter of them, or"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1743.643,"endTime":1745.053,"body":"maybe close to a third of them."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1745.483,"endTime":1751.68,"body":"And, you know, it was started by,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1745.483,"endTime":1751.68,"body":"three folks that, were college kids,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1751.74,"endTime":1756.13,"body":"at Yale, in a different, a very"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1751.74,"endTime":1756.13,"body":"different kind of generation for me."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1756.13,"endTime":1760.547,"body":"So when I had just graduated college,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1756.13,"endTime":1760.547,"body":"bowling for Columbine had come out"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1760.547,"endTime":1765.747,"body":"and it really kind of brought to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1760.547,"endTime":1765.747,"body":"light, this, tragedy that we have in"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1765.747,"endTime":1771.087,"body":"this country around school shootings"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1765.747,"endTime":1771.087,"body":"and safety, at these institutions."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1771.087,"endTime":1773.157,"body":"And, you know, that was for me."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1773.157,"endTime":1777.817,"body":"And then like, I think maybe 15 years"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1773.157,"endTime":1777.817,"body":"later the founders of the, of this"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1777.817,"endTime":1782.017,"body":"company, were at Yale and they're going"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1777.817,"endTime":1782.017,"body":"through school shooter training and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1782.017,"endTime":1783.637,"body":"there's a school shooting happening."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1784.897,"endTime":1787.837,"body":"I think three times a week or"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1784.897,"endTime":1787.837,"body":"something like that around the us"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1787.867,"endTime":1794.737,"body":"It's a really shocking, uh, kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1787.867,"endTime":1794.737,"body":"of amount, of this happening."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1795.031,"endTime":1798.781,"body":"And so they were going through this"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1795.031,"endTime":1798.781,"body":"school shooting training, uh, and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1798.991,"endTime":1802.141,"body":"one of the things that they thought"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1798.991,"endTime":1802.141,"body":"about was like, well, what if I could"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1802.141,"endTime":1804.091,"body":"actually broadcast what's happening?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1804.341,"endTime":1808.061,"body":"live, like any student could take out"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1804.341,"endTime":1808.061,"body":"their phone and start to broadcast and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1808.061,"endTime":1813.531,"body":"provide situational data to the police"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1808.061,"endTime":1813.531,"body":"or, the authorities that are coming to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1813.561,"endTime":1819.831,"body":"deal with and handle this issue and, you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1813.561,"endTime":1819.831,"body":"know, restore safety to the campus and."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1820.296,"endTime":1823.326,"body":"They were talking to one of the officers"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1820.296,"endTime":1823.326,"body":"that were there on campus during the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1823.326,"endTime":1826.476,"body":"training about this thing that they"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1823.326,"endTime":1826.476,"body":"were working on, and that officer said,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1826.476,"endTime":1830.916,"body":"well, you should go talk to the dispatch"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1826.476,"endTime":1830.916,"body":"center in New Haven, uh, for 9 1 1."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1830.916,"endTime":1835.656,"body":"Because they have been built on the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1830.916,"endTime":1835.656,"body":"telephones telephone system from"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1835.656,"endTime":1837.456,"body":"like the seventies or eighties."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1837.756,"endTime":1839.226,"body":"The technology hasn't changed."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1839.226,"endTime":1842.226,"body":"Like you still have to get on the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1839.226,"endTime":1842.226,"body":"phone and like tell them where"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1842.226,"endTime":1844.806,"body":"you are and explain the situation"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1842.226,"endTime":1844.806,"body":"and they don't have any eyes."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1845.541,"endTime":1848.931,"body":"Um, you know, they don't get"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1845.541,"endTime":1848.931,"body":"GPS data streaming to them about"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1848.931,"endTime":1852.801,"body":"location or anything like that,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1848.931,"endTime":1852.801,"body":"and so they've been dreaming of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1852.801,"endTime":1855.621,"body":"having this richer situational data."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1856.071,"endTime":1858.561,"body":"In the dispatch center"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1856.071,"endTime":1858.561,"body":"right, for these 9 1 1 calls."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1858.561,"endTime":1863.371,"body":"And so they started, they did a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1858.561,"endTime":1863.371,"body":"pilot in New Haven and I think"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1863.371,"endTime":1864.721,"body":"they did another one in Nevada."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1864.721,"endTime":1871.816,"body":"And within the first week, someone"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1864.721,"endTime":1871.816,"body":"had a heart attack and called 911"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1872.256,"endTime":1876.306,"body":"The dispatch agent sent a text"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1872.256,"endTime":1876.306,"body":"to their phone with a mobile URL."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1876.546,"endTime":1880.976,"body":"They tapped on, the user, who was calling,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1876.546,"endTime":1880.976,"body":"tapped on that URL, and they were in a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1880.976,"endTime":1886.136,"body":"mobile browser streaming audio and video"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1880.976,"endTime":1886.136,"body":"and GPS data to the dispatch, agent and."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1886.399,"endTime":1890.499,"body":"they had someone hold their phone,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1886.399,"endTime":1890.499,"body":"and the dispatch agent coached them on"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1890.559,"endTime":1894.489,"body":"delivering CPR to this person who had"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1890.559,"endTime":1894.489,"body":"had a heart attack and was unconscious."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1894.619,"endTime":1895.849,"body":"and they saved that person's life."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1895.849,"endTime":1900.529,"body":"And now, every single week, a very"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1895.849,"endTime":1900.529,"body":"similar story to this, where someone has"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1900.529,"endTime":1905.569,"body":"a heart attack, and is revived through,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1900.529,"endTime":1905.569,"body":"a video call with, with a dispatch"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1905.589,"endTime":1907.729,"body":"agent, through LiveKit, of course."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1907.969,"endTime":1910.129,"body":"so it's very rewarding"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1907.969,"endTime":1910.129,"body":"and impactful for me."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1911.159,"endTime":1912.879,"body":"it saves a person's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1911.159,"endTime":1912.879,"body":"life every single week."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1912.879,"endTime":1913.089,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1913.089,"endTime":1913.429,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1913.459,"endTime":1913.849,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1914.029,"endTime":1917.909,"body":"you know, it's, but it's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1914.029,"endTime":1917.909,"body":"something that just was not possible."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1918.209,"endTime":1922.559,"body":"before we had this ability to really"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1918.209,"endTime":1922.559,"body":"like stream audio and video on demand"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1922.559,"endTime":1926.213,"body":"in real time with low latency, and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1922.559,"endTime":1926.213,"body":"kind of like teleport that dispatch"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1926.213,"endTime":1928.473,"body":"agent to the scene of the emergency."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1928.683,"endTime":1931.143,"body":"So just an incredible use case,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1931.505,"endTime":1931.795,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1932.12,"endTime":1932.69,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1933.003,"endTime":1934.743,"body":"of this new world"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":1933.003,"endTime":1934.743,"body":"that we are entering into."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1935.252,"endTime":1937.022,"body":"what an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1935.252,"endTime":1937.022,"body":"amazing, impactful story."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1937.179,"endTime":1940.689,"body":"like an incredible first usage,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1937.179,"endTime":1940.689,"body":"or rather like a, it goes to show"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1940.689,"endTime":1944.049,"body":"how quick the impact of that came."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1944.259,"endTime":1947.229,"body":"Like they put that in place and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1944.259,"endTime":1947.229,"body":"then it was immediately useful"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1947.229,"endTime":1948.819,"body":"and immediately saving lives."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1948.819,"endTime":1953.529,"body":"So it really speaks to like this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1948.819,"endTime":1953.529,"body":"really big need in our world and a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1953.529,"endTime":1955.659,"body":"disconnect between how we live in it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1955.799,"endTime":1958.619,"body":"And how we try to use"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1955.799,"endTime":1958.619,"body":"technology to influence it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1958.869,"endTime":1962.289,"body":"so it, it is really kind of hinting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1958.869,"endTime":1962.289,"body":"at here how life kit is bridging,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1962.539,"endTime":1964.759,"body":"things that before were not bridged."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1964.759,"endTime":1969.019,"body":"And with that you get these huge gains,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1964.759,"endTime":1969.019,"body":"like in this case, saving someone's life"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1969.049,"endTime":1974.719,"body":"or in other cases responding to real time,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1969.049,"endTime":1974.719,"body":"like scenarios like being able to use this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1974.719,"endTime":1978.739,"body":"technology to drive that kind of good,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1974.719,"endTime":1978.739,"body":"I'm sure is, has been really rewarding."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1979.109,"endTime":1981.809,"body":"the way that you describe it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1979.109,"endTime":1981.809,"body":"too, like I love your passion"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1981.809,"endTime":1985.509,"body":"for how, people would use this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1981.809,"endTime":1985.509,"body":"technology and what it would mean."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1985.779,"endTime":1989.119,"body":"And I also like how you're talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1985.779,"endTime":1989.119,"body":"about the evolution of, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1989.119,"endTime":1991.879,"body":"took our brains and we turned 'em into"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1989.119,"endTime":1991.879,"body":"text in order to use computers, and now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1991.879,"endTime":1993.989,"body":"we need to, bring the computers to us."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1993.989,"endTime":1996.479,"body":"We need to help them understand"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1993.989,"endTime":1996.479,"body":"the world that we live in."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1996.539,"endTime":2000.019,"body":"And it reminds me so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":1996.539,"endTime":2000.019,"body":"much of like when mobile."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2000.234,"endTime":2002.844,"body":"Really came on the scene and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2000.234,"endTime":2002.844,"body":"about how everything tried"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2002.844,"endTime":2004.314,"body":"to get shoved into mobile."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2004.314,"endTime":2004.764,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2004.794,"endTime":2007.614,"body":"And we tried to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2004.794,"endTime":2007.614,"body":"do we use everything on mobile?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2007.614,"endTime":2009.334,"body":"And, that's a growing pain."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2009.464,"endTime":2013.154,"body":"we turned things that did and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2009.464,"endTime":2013.154,"body":"didn't work into mobile experiences."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2013.154,"endTime":2014.714,"body":"We learned not to just make."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2014.714,"endTime":2018.359,"body":"That standalone mobile website and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2014.714,"endTime":2018.359,"body":"we all figured out responsive design"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2018.359,"endTime":2023.189,"body":"and that required so much effort and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2018.359,"endTime":2023.189,"body":"now it's like innate to our world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2023.189,"endTime":2025.619,"body":"And our world is in fact"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2023.189,"endTime":2025.619,"body":"almost built mobile first."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2025.769,"endTime":2029.999,"body":"So it really kind of hints at these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2025.769,"endTime":2029.999,"body":"possibilities of like being in a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2029.999,"endTime":2034.289,"body":"multimodal first world where by default"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2029.999,"endTime":2034.289,"body":"you're interacting with it that way."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2034.289,"endTime":2035.969,"body":"Do you, do you see that in our future?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2036.804,"endTime":2037.939,"body":"I definitely do."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2037.939,"endTime":2041.979,"body":"I think that technology adoption"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2037.939,"endTime":2041.979,"body":"kind of moves in these phases, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2041.979,"endTime":2046.435,"body":"Where, you have these early adopters"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2041.979,"endTime":2046.435,"body":"and then you kind of have, this period"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2046.435,"endTime":2052.522,"body":"of time where I. people are like the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2046.435,"endTime":2052.522,"body":"paradigm that's already at scale, I guess."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2052.722,"endTime":2055.299,"body":"and then there, there're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2052.722,"endTime":2055.299,"body":"these, these s-curves, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2055.299,"endTime":2057.989,"body":"And you're kind of taking the paradigm"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2055.299,"endTime":2057.989,"body":"that's already at scale and you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2057.989,"endTime":2064.359,"body":"adapting what's at scale to work in this"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2057.989,"endTime":2064.359,"body":"new paradigm and adopting, the technology"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2064.359,"endTime":2070.549,"body":"in as almost like a. You know, it's not"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2064.359,"endTime":2070.549,"body":"meant to be like reductive, or diminishing"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2070.549,"endTime":2074.869,"body":"the value of doing this because we all"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2070.549,"endTime":2074.869,"body":"kind of do it at first, which is, you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2074.869,"endTime":2076.189,"body":"know, you kind of bolt it on, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2076.189,"endTime":2077.149,"body":"Like, are you, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2077.351,"endTime":2077.591,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2077.659,"endTime":2081.409,"body":"to integrate that new"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2077.659,"endTime":2081.409,"body":"technology into what exists already."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2081.839,"endTime":2087.044,"body":"but then after that wave, and the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2081.839,"endTime":2087.044,"body":"technology or the paradigm shift"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2087.109,"endTime":2088.999,"body":"kind of gets popularized to a degree."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2090.069,"endTime":2093.429,"body":"And you're firmly in like the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2090.069,"endTime":2093.429,"body":"adoption kind of neck of the S-curve,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2093.739,"endTime":2095.209,"body":"um, or in that middle section."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2095.599,"endTime":2102.269,"body":"Then you start to have products"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2095.599,"endTime":2102.269,"body":"and companies, get built, which are"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2102.269,"endTime":2104.519,"body":"kind of native to that new paradigm."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2104.519,"endTime":2104.819,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2104.819,"endTime":2105.449,"body":"And so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2105.611,"endTime":2105.671,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2105.839,"endTime":2110.499,"body":"mobile it was like, it was"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2105.839,"endTime":2110.499,"body":"Uber and it was Snap, it was Instagram"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2110.499,"endTime":2114.969,"body":"and it was, it was these companies that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2110.499,"endTime":2114.969,"body":"were kind of like, mobile only, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2114.969,"endTime":2116.079,"body":"Or mobile native."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2116.416,"endTime":2116.766,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2117.139,"endTime":2120.229,"body":"Thinking about what they were"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2117.139,"endTime":2120.229,"body":"building, like as, as mobile being the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2120.229,"endTime":2124.849,"body":"only entry point into, those services"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2120.229,"endTime":2124.849,"body":"and, and how the interaction should"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2124.849,"endTime":2126.559,"body":"work and how the product, should work."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2126.559,"endTime":2131.659,"body":"And so I think we're definitely gonna"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2126.559,"endTime":2131.659,"body":"see that with, with, with AI as well."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2131.894,"endTime":2135.974,"body":"I think it's on an accelerating timeframe"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2131.894,"endTime":2135.974,"body":"though, which is, kind of fascinating."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2136.05,"endTime":2138.69,"body":"uh, like everything, like I think"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2136.05,"endTime":2138.69,"body":"all technologies an accelerating"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2138.69,"endTime":2143.13,"body":"timeframe, so any point along the curve"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2138.69,"endTime":2143.13,"body":"is also gonna happen a lot faster."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2143.39,"endTime":2148.167,"body":"as these things, you know, kind of move"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2143.39,"endTime":2148.167,"body":"along the, uh, progression that I see."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2148.167,"endTime":2151.004,"body":"I think that there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2148.167,"endTime":2151.004,"body":"kind of like three things."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2151.054,"endTime":2155.297,"body":"I think the first one is we're kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2151.054,"endTime":2155.297,"body":"of in this like co-pilot moment"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2155.297,"endTime":2157.924,"body":"right now I don't think co-pilots"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2155.297,"endTime":2157.924,"body":"are actually gonna go away."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2157.924,"endTime":2161.224,"body":"Just to be clear, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2157.924,"endTime":2161.224,"body":"it's like the co-pilot is the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2161.704,"endTime":2165.784,"body":"bolt-on thing and then like it gets"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2161.704,"endTime":2165.784,"body":"completely replaced by something else."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2165.784,"endTime":2166.384,"body":"I think that."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2167.002,"endTime":2172.102,"body":"It starts off with this co-pilot use case"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2167.002,"endTime":2172.102,"body":"where your copilot is your virtual voice"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2172.102,"endTime":2176.635,"body":"assistant in the ChapGPT world or it's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2172.102,"endTime":2176.635,"body":"cursor that's sitting in your code editor."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2176.975,"endTime":2180.545,"body":"or it's another experience where you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2176.975,"endTime":2180.545,"body":"have this assistant that is there"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2180.545,"endTime":2184.565,"body":"to like, help you with stuff, and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2180.545,"endTime":2184.565,"body":"I think at first it will help you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2184.565,"endTime":2189.055,"body":"by, augmenting your abilities, like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2184.565,"endTime":2189.055,"body":"inserting itself in certain parts"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2189.055,"endTime":2193.505,"body":"of your workflow and, uh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2189.055,"endTime":2193.505,"body":"generating content or information"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2193.505,"endTime":2195.035,"body":"for you that you can leverage, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2195.035,"endTime":2200.015,"body":"Even just thinking as basic as going into"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2195.035,"endTime":2200.015,"body":"notion and having it rewrite a paragraph"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2200.015,"endTime":2201.365,"body":"that you wrote or something like that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2201.415,"endTime":2201.685,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2201.693,"endTime":2202.983,"body":"like the copilot use case."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2203.033,"endTime":2206.183,"body":"and I think if you take that all the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2203.033,"endTime":2206.183,"body":"way to its end, I think what you end"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2206.183,"endTime":2211.013,"body":"up with is something like Jarvis, uh,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2206.183,"endTime":2211.013,"body":"from Ironman where it's like, well, hey,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2211.013,"endTime":2213.023,"body":"like I'm envisioning something here."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2213.173,"endTime":2216.833,"body":"Instead of it, it being more engineering"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2213.173,"endTime":2216.833,"body":"driven, now it's more design driven where"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2216.833,"endTime":2220.103,"body":"it's like, Hey, I'm like the maestro"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2216.833,"endTime":2220.103,"body":"and I'm telling you kind of what I want,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2220.153,"endTime":2223.678,"body":"and then you are kind of generating and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2220.153,"endTime":2223.678,"body":"doing a lot of that mundane work for me."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2224.713,"endTime":2227.053,"body":"Putting something in front of me"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2224.713,"endTime":2227.053,"body":"and then I'm more of the editor."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2227.323,"endTime":2227.743,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2227.823,"endTime":2232.503,"body":"I think that that's kind of where the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2227.823,"endTime":2232.503,"body":"copilot use case or implementation is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2232.503,"endTime":2237.487,"body":"taken to, its, its logical end, but"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2232.503,"endTime":2237.487,"body":"that, what ends up happening is you end"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2237.487,"endTime":2242.223,"body":"up going from copilot to coworker that's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2237.487,"endTime":2242.223,"body":"more of like this age agentic thing"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2242.223,"endTime":2243.933,"body":"that's going on or that people talk about."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2243.933,"endTime":2244.773,"body":"That term is kind of."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2245.86,"endTime":2246.435,"body":"Yeah, it's."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2246.493,"endTime":2247.543,"body":"a product called agents too."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2247.543,"endTime":2251.203,"body":"It's like the term doesn't mean anything"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2247.543,"endTime":2251.203,"body":"anymore, but uh, this agentic kind of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2251.203,"endTime":2257.647,"body":"workflow thing is you are instead giving"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2251.203,"endTime":2257.647,"body":"like instructions or what you desire to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2257.887,"endTime":2261.157,"body":"this AI entity and it's going and it's."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2261.42,"endTime":2264.853,"body":"it's doing the whole thing itself and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2261.42,"endTime":2264.853,"body":"then coming back and you're having"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2264.853,"endTime":2267.883,"body":"kind of a meeting with it and you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2264.853,"endTime":2267.883,"body":"like, uh, making sure that you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2267.883,"endTime":2270.763,"body":"in sync or you're helping give it"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2267.883,"endTime":2270.763,"body":"some more information if it needs"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2270.763,"endTime":2272.843,"body":"to refine, the work that it's done."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2272.843,"endTime":2276.683,"body":"And so I think that that's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2272.843,"endTime":2276.683,"body":"like the next stage of all of this."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2276.683,"endTime":2279.203,"body":"And then I think the third stage is."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2279.422,"endTime":2283.382,"body":"we now have a model or a set of models"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2279.422,"endTime":2283.382,"body":"that are so smart they can go and do"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2283.382,"endTime":2287.822,"body":"work themselves and all of that stuff"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2283.382,"endTime":2287.822,"body":"and execute on pretty complex tasks."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2288.242,"endTime":2291.512,"body":"Well, okay, now I need to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2288.242,"endTime":2291.512,"body":"embody these things and put them"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2291.512,"endTime":2295.292,"body":"inside a, A thing that's shaped"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2291.512,"endTime":2295.292,"body":"like us and can move like us."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2295.342,"endTime":2299.965,"body":"and then it's like, it's literally"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2295.342,"endTime":2299.965,"body":"like a, a coworker or a friend or a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2299.995,"endTime":2304.555,"body":"companion that can go and, and navigate"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2299.995,"endTime":2304.555,"body":"the physical world and do things in"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2304.555,"endTime":2308.505,"body":"the physical world, that help me and,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2304.555,"endTime":2308.505,"body":"you know, increase my productivity"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2308.505,"endTime":2310.155,"body":"or maybe just increase my happiness."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2310.542,"endTime":2312.672,"body":"Yeah, I think it'd"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2310.542,"endTime":2312.672,"body":"be a really interesting journey."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2312.802,"endTime":2315.202,"body":"I agree with you about the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2312.802,"endTime":2315.202,"body":"natural end of copilot."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2315.562,"endTime":2319.422,"body":"I think that even like the parallel"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2315.562,"endTime":2319.422,"body":"that we just drew between, this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2319.422,"endTime":2323.224,"body":"and like mobile, I. The same"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2319.422,"endTime":2323.224,"body":"thing can be said about like chat"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2323.224,"endTime":2325.714,"body":"assistance with AI and mobile."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2325.744,"endTime":2328.474,"body":"It's the same idea, like, oh, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2325.744,"endTime":2328.474,"body":"our first taste of the technology."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2328.474,"endTime":2332.794,"body":"We're just trying to shove it into"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2328.474,"endTime":2332.794,"body":"the quickest to delivery format"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2332.794,"endTime":2333.844,"body":"that we can, that we're used to."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2333.844,"endTime":2336.754,"body":"And right now that's a chat conversation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2333.844,"endTime":2336.754,"body":"that's like the most intuitive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2336.754,"endTime":2338.614,"body":"way to extract things from it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2338.614,"endTime":2343.55,"body":"But it will obviously evolve into other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2338.614,"endTime":2343.55,"body":"forms that are more specialized, and that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2343.55,"endTime":2345.8,"body":"kind of have more intention behind them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2346.075,"endTime":2349.165,"body":"And I, I wanna, I want take the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2346.075,"endTime":2349.165,"body":"conversation at this point and kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2349.165,"endTime":2353.535,"body":"of shift it into how, this kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2349.165,"endTime":2353.535,"body":"thinking is going to impact, engineering"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2353.535,"endTime":2358.129,"body":"leaders, in our space and about how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2353.535,"endTime":2358.129,"body":"they're going to have to really rethink,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2358.179,"endTime":2362.089,"body":"how they build software, how they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2358.179,"endTime":2362.089,"body":"train their teams, and also how they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2362.089,"endTime":2366.079,"body":"are going to, bring their software"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2362.089,"endTime":2366.079,"body":"through its entire, you know, SDLC"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2366.099,"endTime":2369.229,"body":"like how does, working with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2366.099,"endTime":2369.229,"body":"this type of technology impact."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2369.439,"endTime":2372.049,"body":"And so I have some questions that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2369.439,"endTime":2372.049,"body":"are kind of top of mind for you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2372.319,"endTime":2373.939,"body":"They're kind of things that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2372.319,"endTime":2373.939,"body":"might be burning questions"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2373.939,"endTime":2375.679,"body":"in our audience mind as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2375.989,"endTime":2380.879,"body":"one of them is really like when you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2375.989,"endTime":2380.879,"body":"working with a realtime technology, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2380.879,"endTime":2383.729,"body":"think the stakes are a lot different."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2383.909,"endTime":2388.319,"body":"And failure, realtime failure"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2383.909,"endTime":2388.319,"body":"looks a lot different than like a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2388.319,"endTime":2392.099,"body":"server going down somewhere on like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2388.319,"endTime":2392.099,"body":"a request response architecture."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2392.349,"endTime":2396.452,"body":"I'm wondering from your, standpoint,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2392.349,"endTime":2396.452,"body":"what are some fundamental things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2396.482,"endTime":2400.832,"body":"about engineering that you and your,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2396.482,"endTime":2400.832,"body":"your organization have had to rethink"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2400.892,"endTime":2403.222,"body":"when building something like LiveKit?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2404.093,"endTime":2406.433,"body":"I think that there's kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2404.093,"endTime":2406.433,"body":"of two sets of challenges here, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2406.483,"endTime":2411.527,"body":"There are challenges and questions and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2406.483,"endTime":2411.527,"body":"approaches for engineers, developer"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2411.527,"endTime":2415.847,"body":"teams, companies that are kind of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2411.527,"endTime":2415.847,"body":"building applications for this new world."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2416.477,"endTime":2421.011,"body":"And then there are the challenges that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2416.477,"endTime":2421.011,"body":"we've kind of had to solve as a company"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2421.011,"endTime":2422.901,"body":"or as a pro for, for our product."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2422.901,"endTime":2427.091,"body":"And, these are kind of two distinct"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2422.901,"endTime":2427.091,"body":"buckets in a way, just because, The"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2427.091,"endTime":2431.404,"body":"problems that we've had to solve"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2427.091,"endTime":2431.404,"body":"for LiveKit around failure modes,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2431.404,"endTime":2437.68,"body":"technical challenges, scaling, of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2431.404,"endTime":2437.68,"body":"that reliability, those problems"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2438.7,"endTime":2440.77,"body":"we had to solve independent of ai."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2441.4,"endTime":2443.663,"body":"just because what LiveKit."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2444.398,"endTime":2451.328,"body":"Provides is not too dissimilar from"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2444.398,"endTime":2451.328,"body":"what we to provide during the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2451.328,"endTime":2455.108,"body":"When the open source project started,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2451.328,"endTime":2455.108,"body":"it was that like we were building"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2455.138,"endTime":2458.888,"body":"infrastructure that made it really easy"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2455.138,"endTime":2458.888,"body":"for a human to connect with another"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2458.888,"endTime":2460.838,"body":"human anywhere in the world, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2461.148,"endTime":2464.838,"body":"and the way that human is connecting"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2461.148,"endTime":2464.838,"body":"with that other human is using cameras"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2464.838,"endTime":2468.198,"body":"and microphones, from either of our"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2464.838,"endTime":2468.198,"body":"computers and we're teleporting that data."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2468.908,"endTime":2470.738,"body":"Over some wires to the other person."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2470.738,"endTime":2472.118,"body":"That's what we're doing right now as well."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2472.748,"endTime":2476.223,"body":"And what we're doing is we're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2472.748,"endTime":2476.223,"body":"leveraging the same technology,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2476.589,"endTime":2481.059,"body":"but you're connecting those cameras"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2476.589,"endTime":2481.059,"body":"and microphones with the machine."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2481.68,"endTime":2485.76,"body":"can use the same technology because"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2481.68,"endTime":2485.76,"body":"the machine now takes the inputs"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2485.79,"endTime":2487.8,"body":"in the same way that you do, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2487.85,"endTime":2491.87,"body":"Looking at a camera that is capturing"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2487.85,"endTime":2491.87,"body":"something that I'm seeing, or"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2491.87,"endTime":2493.31,"body":"a camera that's pointed at me."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2493.46,"endTime":2496.01,"body":"So either a camera pointed at me or"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2493.46,"endTime":2496.01,"body":"a camera pointed out at the world."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2496.37,"endTime":2498.59,"body":"And so it's seeing what I'm seeing."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2498.94,"endTime":2501.07,"body":"and it's hearing what I'm hearing, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2501.07,"endTime":2504.5,"body":"When I speak to you, you're like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2501.07,"endTime":2504.5,"body":"listening to me, with your ears."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2504.55,"endTime":2510.52,"body":"and the computer is also doing something"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2504.55,"endTime":2510.52,"body":"very similar So the same technology"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2510.52,"endTime":2513.84,"body":"can be used, for connecting humans"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2510.52,"endTime":2513.84,"body":"to other humans as it can be for"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2513.96,"endTime":2515.475,"body":"connecting humans to machines, and thus."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2515.995,"endTime":2519.715,"body":"The problems to solve there around"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2515.995,"endTime":2519.715,"body":"like making sure it's as low latency as"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2519.715,"endTime":2525.505,"body":"possible, making sure you have servers"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2519.715,"endTime":2525.505,"body":"to the edge for any user or AI model"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2525.625,"endTime":2527.695,"body":"to connect to or agent to connect to."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2528.005,"endTime":2531.875,"body":"making sure that if a server goes"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2528.005,"endTime":2531.875,"body":"down, you can transparently fail over"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2531.875,"endTime":2534.881,"body":"to another machine so you can kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2531.875,"endTime":2534.881,"body":"of horizontally scale these servers."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2535.412,"endTime":2538.472,"body":"and then making sure that you can load"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2535.412,"endTime":2538.472,"body":"balance across these servers and they"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2538.472,"endTime":2541.742,"body":"can scale up and handle millions and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2538.472,"endTime":2541.742,"body":"millions of concurrent connections."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2542.222,"endTime":2546.392,"body":"All of those problems that we had"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2542.222,"endTime":2546.392,"body":"to solve for video conferencing"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2546.392,"endTime":2548.042,"body":"and for live streaming before,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2548.299,"endTime":2548.719,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2548.852,"endTime":2549.872,"body":"whole AI thing happened."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2550.807,"endTime":2554.047,"body":"There's, almost a hundred percent"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2550.807,"endTime":2554.047,"body":"overlap with kind of this,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2554.147,"endTime":2558.781,"body":"proliferation of AI and, voice and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2554.147,"endTime":2558.781,"body":"vision interfaces to an AI model."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2558.991,"endTime":2563.521,"body":"So we've had to solve from that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2558.991,"endTime":2563.521,"body":"perspective have been the same."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2563.521,"endTime":2567.121,"body":"Now, there are new problems that we've"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2563.521,"endTime":2567.121,"body":"had to solve that are aligned with"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2567.451,"endTime":2571.261,"body":"kind of what I would say the challenges"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2567.451,"endTime":2571.261,"body":"are for the application developer, the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2571.261,"endTime":2574.081,"body":"engineering teams out there that are"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2571.261,"endTime":2574.081,"body":"using something like LiveKit to build an"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2574.081,"endTime":2579.395,"body":"application There, it's really about how"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2574.081,"endTime":2579.395,"body":"do you make sure that you do this safely?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2580.775,"endTime":2584.705,"body":"when I talk to another human being,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2580.775,"endTime":2584.705,"body":"know, there's, there's a few things,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2584.735,"endTime":2589.387,"body":"that let's say with an AI model, If"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2584.735,"endTime":2589.387,"body":"you were to draw a parallel to a human"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2589.387,"endTime":2592.057,"body":"being, like if I said something to"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2589.387,"endTime":2592.057,"body":"you and you like, nodded your head"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2592.057,"endTime":2595.157,"body":"and then you just said nothing, or you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2592.057,"endTime":2595.157,"body":"shut off your camera and disconnected"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2595.157,"endTime":2598.357,"body":"from this call or whatever, that would"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2595.157,"endTime":2598.357,"body":"be a pretty weird experience, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2598.357,"endTime":2601.117,"body":"So like, reliability is definitely"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2598.357,"endTime":2601.117,"body":"something that we have to care about."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2601.117,"endTime":2601.597,"body":"Make sure that."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2602.037,"endTime":2606.237,"body":"You know, you have that failover and and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2602.037,"endTime":2606.237,"body":"and there's this continuity between the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2606.237,"endTime":2608.067,"body":"conversation that I'm having with an ai."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2608.397,"endTime":2610.437,"body":"in the same way that you want"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2608.397,"endTime":2610.437,"body":"that continuity when you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2610.437,"endTime":2611.637,"body":"in a Zoom call with someone."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2611.637,"endTime":2611.957,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2612.665,"endTime":2613.235,"body":"Scenario."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2613.235,"endTime":2616.185,"body":"And so you gotta make sure that those"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2613.235,"endTime":2616.185,"body":"fundamentals work and that's, you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2616.185,"endTime":2617.595,"body":"know, what we take on as our job."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2617.955,"endTime":2622.365,"body":"but then what we will help developers do,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2617.955,"endTime":2622.365,"body":"and we're gonna be building stuff in this"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2622.365,"endTime":2628.625,"body":"direction, but that developers also have"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2622.365,"endTime":2628.625,"body":"the burden of solving, as a challenge is."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2628.875,"endTime":2632.025,"body":"How do you make sure that the model"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2628.875,"endTime":2632.025,"body":"is like saying the right thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2632.025,"endTime":2635.965,"body":"Or how do you make sure it's not"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2632.025,"endTime":2635.965,"body":"hallucinating and, let's just say"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2635.965,"endTime":2640.235,"body":"like swearing or saying something"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2635.965,"endTime":2640.235,"body":"inappropriate, or if it's a model that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2640.235,"endTime":2645.258,"body":"is, generative video model, how do you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2640.235,"endTime":2645.258,"body":"make sure that it's not like generating,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2645.288,"endTime":2647.388,"body":"inappropriate images or things like that?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2647.438,"endTime":2651.578,"body":"I think that what is tricky with"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2647.438,"endTime":2651.578,"body":"real time and with audio and video"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2651.578,"endTime":2655.548,"body":"in particular is that, when it's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2651.578,"endTime":2655.548,"body":"real time, you do not have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2655.548,"endTime":2658.238,"body":"room for, corrective measures, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2658.575,"endTime":2658.865,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2659.318,"endTime":2661.508,"body":"this information"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2659.318,"endTime":2661.508,"body":"is being generated on the fly."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2661.608,"endTime":2664.818,"body":"The second problem versus text is that."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2665.868,"endTime":2670.908,"body":"You can make assertions about text, like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2665.868,"endTime":2670.908,"body":"they're strings, right, of characters."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2671.148,"endTime":2673.608,"body":"And you can, we've been writing"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2671.148,"endTime":2673.608,"body":"assertions about strings of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2673.608,"endTime":2675.588,"body":"characters in code for a long time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2675.855,"endTime":2676.125,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2676.638,"endTime":2680.838,"body":"but now you have to suddenly"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2676.638,"endTime":2680.838,"body":"like have assertions around like waveforms"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2680.898,"endTime":2686.618,"body":"or around images and, How fast can you,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2680.898,"endTime":2686.618,"body":"can you make those assertions, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2686.618,"endTime":2690.818,"body":"You gotta like, take audio that is coming"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2686.618,"endTime":2690.818,"body":"out of a model and you have to maybe like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2690.818,"endTime":2696.638,"body":"send it to another model that is looking"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2690.818,"endTime":2696.638,"body":"at or somehow determining whether the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2696.698,"endTime":2699.968,"body":"there's appropriate, uh, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2696.698,"endTime":2699.968,"body":"inappropriate or not, and flagging it."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2700.268,"endTime":2701.498,"body":"And then like, if it's."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2701.703,"endTime":2702.663,"body":"Inappropriate."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2702.693,"endTime":2704.013,"body":"Like how do you correct for that?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2704.013,"endTime":2707.076,"body":"Have you already delivered the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2704.013,"endTime":2707.076,"body":"audio bites, to the user's device?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2707.076,"endTime":2710.526,"body":"Like, do you kind of do like an"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2707.076,"endTime":2710.526,"body":"ask for forgiveness, thing or like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2710.526,"endTime":2714.696,"body":"an ask for, for permission and,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2710.526,"endTime":2714.696,"body":"and so that's a challenge, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2714.696,"endTime":2717.816,"body":"And one of the ways that you can kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2714.696,"endTime":2717.816,"body":"of solve that challenge is through"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2717.816,"endTime":2720.246,"body":"like simulation and evaluation."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2720.526,"endTime":2723.156,"body":"where you have like one model or."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2723.586,"endTime":2727.906,"body":"a human even sometimes like go and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2723.586,"endTime":2727.906,"body":"run through like these testing calls."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2728.266,"endTime":2732.226,"body":"or you're spinning up Voice agents that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2728.266,"endTime":2732.226,"body":"are going and like having a call with"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2732.226,"endTime":2736.246,"body":"another, uh, voice agent and making sure"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2732.226,"endTime":2736.246,"body":"that it's, it's doing the right thing."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2736.396,"endTime":2740.386,"body":"What you're ultimately trying to do"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2736.396,"endTime":2740.386,"body":"here is build a statistical confidence"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2740.626,"endTime":2746.236,"body":"that you are gonna ship to users is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2740.626,"endTime":2746.236,"body":"going to act and behave appropriately."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2746.236,"endTime":2749.416,"body":"That's fundamentally what you're"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2746.236,"endTime":2749.416,"body":"trying to do between two humans."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2749.626,"endTime":2751.726,"body":"The way that you do that is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2749.626,"endTime":2751.726,"body":"through, I don't know, like."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2752.245,"endTime":2755.365,"body":"Reading their resumes or making"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2752.245,"endTime":2755.365,"body":"sure you have common LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2755.365,"endTime":2757.345,"body":"connections or whatever, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2757.345,"endTime":2757.525,"body":"Like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2757.847,"endTime":2758.197,"body":"Right,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2758.695,"endTime":2763.185,"body":"There are all these mechanisms"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2758.695,"endTime":2763.185,"body":"that humans use, to kind of build trust,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2763.535,"endTime":2765.365,"body":"including just looking at someone, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2765.365,"endTime":2769.145,"body":"Like we make these judgments just based"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2765.365,"endTime":2769.145,"body":"on like kind of, uh, how people appear."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2769.145,"endTime":2770.345,"body":"And then, and then there."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2770.375,"endTime":2773.975,"body":"Then oh my gosh, it like enters"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2770.375,"endTime":2773.975,"body":"into this other question about like."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2774.815,"endTime":2778.895,"body":"How do you make sure that you're not like"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2774.815,"endTime":2778.895,"body":"having some kind of inherent bias, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2778.982,"endTime":2779.072,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2779.145,"endTime":2782.445,"body":"but also like, making a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2779.145,"endTime":2782.445,"body":"good judgment around safety based"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2782.445,"endTime":2784.075,"body":"on the input, that you're getting."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2784.075,"endTime":2785.665,"body":"It's, really tricky."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2785.665,"endTime":2787.975,"body":"it's like a world that"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2785.665,"endTime":2787.975,"body":"we're still figuring out."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2788.025,"endTime":2790.755,"body":"but it's something that is a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2788.025,"endTime":2790.755,"body":"real thing to consider when"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2790.755,"endTime":2791.895,"body":"you're shipping these systems."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2792.397,"endTime":2795.477,"body":"I really like how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2792.397,"endTime":2795.477,"body":"you explained that in terms of at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2795.477,"endTime":2799.387,"body":"the end there, especially where,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2795.477,"endTime":2799.387,"body":"we have like a test case, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2799.387,"endTime":2803.117,"body":"Like we write assertions on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2799.387,"endTime":2803.117,"body":"strings on math, all the time."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2803.117,"endTime":2804.377,"body":"That's a solved problem."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2804.377,"endTime":2806.717,"body":"And, and tech, and that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2804.377,"endTime":2806.717,"body":"also like table stakes."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2806.887,"endTime":2810.097,"body":"Right, like you're making an application"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2806.887,"endTime":2810.097,"body":"and you're shipping it, like you better"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2810.097,"endTime":2813.697,"body":"have some unit tests in there somewhere,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2810.097,"endTime":2813.697,"body":"or someone's probably gonna be unhappy and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2813.697,"endTime":2815.467,"body":"it's probably gonna be you and your users."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2815.707,"endTime":2820.167,"body":"And so in the case of like a, using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2815.707,"endTime":2820.167,"body":"multimodal tech, you're kind of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2820.167,"endTime":2824.447,"body":"solving from zero on a lot of those,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2820.167,"endTime":2824.447,"body":"test case scenarios and figuring"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2824.447,"endTime":2826.447,"body":"out how would a human validate."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2826.447,"endTime":2828.752,"body":"This kind of input from another human."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2828.962,"endTime":2831.452,"body":"You know, you and I are having"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2828.962,"endTime":2831.452,"body":"conversation, like you said, like I'm not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2831.692,"endTime":2833.282,"body":"nodding my head, you're nodding your head."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2833.282,"endTime":2834.782,"body":"We can see that from each other."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2835.022,"endTime":2840.182,"body":"But if I change my tone of voice or if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2835.022,"endTime":2840.182,"body":"I close my computer or if I turn off my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2840.182,"endTime":2844.112,"body":"camera, like it's going to fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2840.182,"endTime":2844.112,"body":"shift the conversation, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2844.112,"endTime":2848.422,"body":"And so being able to react to those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2844.112,"endTime":2848.422,"body":"in real time to understand when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2848.422,"endTime":2852.202,"body":"that needs to change behavior of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2848.422,"endTime":2852.202,"body":"an application is really important."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2852.512,"endTime":2855.982,"body":"but really just kind of solving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2852.512,"endTime":2855.982,"body":"that Totally unsolved problem"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2856.012,"endTime":2858.432,"body":"of testing a voice conversation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2858.612,"endTime":2861.612,"body":"I like the innovative idea"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2858.612,"endTime":2861.612,"body":"of spinning up a voice agent."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2861.792,"endTime":2863.742,"body":"It's almost like a test case."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2863.742,"endTime":2865.482,"body":"And it's like, here's your script."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2865.722,"endTime":2869.022,"body":"And that is like the test, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2865.722,"endTime":2869.022,"body":"unit test or something, and then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2869.202,"endTime":2870.912,"body":"you're gonna go through this flow."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2871.042,"endTime":2873.082,"body":"and then that allows you to scale it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2873.082,"endTime":2876.392,"body":"and I think that's ultimately, the big"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2873.082,"endTime":2876.392,"body":"thing right, as you build all of these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2876.392,"endTime":2881.315,"body":"solutions for keeping your technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2876.392,"endTime":2881.315,"body":"secure, keeping it delivering, going"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2881.315,"endTime":2886.325,"body":"from zero to one, whenever you come"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2881.315,"endTime":2886.325,"body":"across one of those new scenarios,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2886.848,"endTime":2887.838,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2888.208,"endTime":2889.498,"body":"early days for it, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2889.498,"endTime":2892.378,"body":"Like we're, we're still a little bit"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2889.498,"endTime":2892.378,"body":"in the stone ages of all of this."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2892.378,"endTime":2895.628,"body":"And, and trying to figure out"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2892.378,"endTime":2895.628,"body":"how do we actually scale these"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2895.628,"endTime":2897.008,"body":"systems in a way that feels safe?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2897.008,"endTime":2904.628,"body":"Because the other issue is if you, cost"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2897.008,"endTime":2904.628,"body":"of getting it wrong is very, very high."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2904.928,"endTime":2907.808,"body":"it's not as severe as, say,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2904.928,"endTime":2907.808,"body":"like a self-driving car."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2909.038,"endTime":2909.938,"body":"Killing someone."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2910.168,"endTime":2913.738,"body":"when that happens, you know, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2910.168,"endTime":2913.738,"body":"like, well, we can't use this anymore."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2913.738,"endTime":2918.548,"body":"Like, even if a self-driving car is"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2913.738,"endTime":2918.548,"body":"safer than a human driver, there's"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2918.548,"endTime":2923.148,"body":"something weird about like, when you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2918.548,"endTime":2923.148,"body":"give your agency up to, this machine,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2923.398,"endTime":2926.488,"body":"if it gets it wrong, then all of a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2923.398,"endTime":2926.488,"body":"sudden we kind of have this expectation"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2926.488,"endTime":2928.498,"body":"that machines are deterministic and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2928.498,"endTime":2928.988,"body":"that they get it"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2929.008,"endTime":2929.788,"body":"right every time."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2929.788,"endTime":2934.828,"body":"But ai, the magical thing, the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2929.788,"endTime":2934.828,"body":"magical and scary thing about."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2935.298,"endTime":2940.608,"body":"This new wave of AI is that this"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2935.298,"endTime":2940.608,"body":"approach to it is probabilistic."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2940.608,"endTime":2943.428,"body":"We have a probabilistic computer, right?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2943.728,"endTime":2947.238,"body":"I'm not gonna say it learns exactly"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2943.728,"endTime":2947.238,"body":"the same way that we do, or thinks"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2947.238,"endTime":2951.648,"body":"exactly the same way that we do,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2947.238,"endTime":2951.648,"body":"but there are similarities and,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2951.648,"endTime":2953.553,"body":"ultimately like at a high level."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2954.403,"endTime":2957.013,"body":"We are probabilistic"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2954.403,"endTime":2957.013,"body":"machines and so are these."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2957.013,"endTime":2962.803,"body":"And so, we have to kind of adjust our"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2957.013,"endTime":2962.803,"body":"expectations as well as a society for, you"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2962.803,"endTime":2967.617,"body":"know, what the outputs might be and start"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2962.803,"endTime":2967.617,"body":"to get a bit comfortable with, some of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2967.617,"endTime":2970.29,"body":"the adversarial cases, that may come up."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2970.65,"endTime":2971.4,"body":"at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2971.63,"endTime":2972.15,"body":"devise"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2972.15,"endTime":2976.32,"body":"ways that we can start to build more"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2972.15,"endTime":2976.32,"body":"and more statistical confidence and kind"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2976.32,"endTime":2981.72,"body":"of bring some determinism or at least"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":2976.32,"endTime":2981.72,"body":"statistical determinism, to these systems."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2982.437,"endTime":2982.797,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2982.797,"endTime":2985.857,"body":"We can't throw away those things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2982.797,"endTime":2985.857,"body":"that have worked for us before just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2985.857,"endTime":2987.587,"body":"because the table's changed a bit."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2987.587,"endTime":2990.927,"body":"We still have to care about,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2987.587,"endTime":2990.927,"body":"being certain, we're working with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2990.927,"endTime":2992.457,"body":"technology that is uncertain."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2992.457,"endTime":2996.027,"body":"It's probabilistic, like you said, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2992.457,"endTime":2996.027,"body":"with that opens up so many opportunities"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2996.027,"endTime":3001.127,"body":"For it to do things that a deterministic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":2996.027,"endTime":3001.127,"body":"machine cannot, but with it also, so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3001.127,"endTime":3006.207,"body":"many pitfalls, so many first time, errors"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3001.127,"endTime":3006.207,"body":"or issues that you have to encounter."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3006.207,"endTime":3007.317,"body":"So many learning issues."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3007.317,"endTime":3010.887,"body":"And when you are talking about technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3007.317,"endTime":3010.887,"body":"that can interact with our world,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3011.107,"endTime":3012.337,"body":"you can talk about even like this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3012.412,"endTime":3015.632,"body":"The stakes being as high as like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3012.412,"endTime":3015.632,"body":"someone's life and whether it's like,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3015.632,"endTime":3018.482,"body":"uh, someone's life is getting saved"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3015.632,"endTime":3018.482,"body":"on a nine one one call or someone's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3018.482,"endTime":3020.312,"body":"in a car that's driving itself."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3020.532,"endTime":3024.612,"body":"it opens up a lot of interesting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3020.532,"endTime":3024.612,"body":"like societal questions about agency,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3024.882,"endTime":3028.992,"body":"about who is responsible for the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3024.882,"endTime":3028.992,"body":"machines that make these decisions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3029.212,"endTime":3031.252,"body":"is it the user, is it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3029.212,"endTime":3031.252,"body":"the people who build it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3031.252,"endTime":3032.752,"body":"Is it the somewhere in between?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3033.082,"endTime":3034.942,"body":"'cause it can't just be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3033.082,"endTime":3034.942,"body":"the machine itself, right?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3034.942,"endTime":3036.202,"body":"And so there, these are a lot of."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3036.302,"endTime":3038.642,"body":"Questions that I think we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3036.302,"endTime":3038.642,"body":"all still figuring out."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3038.942,"endTime":3043.322,"body":"It's really interesting to learn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3038.942,"endTime":3043.322,"body":"how those questions kind of, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3043.382,"endTime":3047.192,"body":"are imprinted in the technology"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3043.382,"endTime":3047.192,"body":"itself as it's getting built."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3047.192,"endTime":3051.389,"body":"Like you're testing, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3047.192,"endTime":3051.389,"body":"safety of a voice conversation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3051.579,"endTime":3053.259,"body":"you're putting things right on the edge."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3053.499,"endTime":3056.199,"body":"That way you can have as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3053.499,"endTime":3056.199,"body":"low as latency as possible."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3056.389,"endTime":3058.609,"body":"you know, you're solving the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3056.389,"endTime":3058.609,"body":"problems in different ways."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3058.609,"endTime":3060.799,"body":"And with them there, there"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3058.609,"endTime":3060.799,"body":"comes different problems."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3061.099,"endTime":3064.099,"body":"I think something too that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3061.099,"endTime":3064.099,"body":"really stands out to me is how it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3064.099,"endTime":3066.314,"body":"impacts, high stakes environments."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3066.364,"endTime":3070.547,"body":"like the 9 1 1 use case is incredible"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3066.364,"endTime":3070.547,"body":"I think those are huge frontiers."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3070.867,"endTime":3073.985,"body":"and just in general, this technology,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3070.867,"endTime":3073.985,"body":"I think, this is just the start of it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3074.175,"endTime":3077.295,"body":"I, I think we're talking about something"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3074.175,"endTime":3077.295,"body":"that's still in really early stages."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3077.295,"endTime":3078.315,"body":"I'm excited to see."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3078.795,"endTime":3081.885,"body":"Where LiveKit goes, how this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3078.795,"endTime":3081.885,"body":"kind of technology takes off."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3081.885,"endTime":3084.915,"body":"And, you know, maybe we can talk again"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3081.885,"endTime":3084.915,"body":"more in the future as, as that journey"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3084.915,"endTime":3088.035,"body":"kind of continues, because I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3084.915,"endTime":3088.035,"body":"it's gonna be a really interesting one."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3088.345,"endTime":3092.455,"body":"this was a total blast, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3088.345,"endTime":3092.455,"body":"me to have you on the pod to, to kind"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3092.455,"endTime":3095.605,"body":"of dig into your brain about how you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3092.455,"endTime":3095.605,"body":"thinking about building technology,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3095.665,"endTime":3099.445,"body":"the different ways you and your team"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3095.665,"endTime":3099.445,"body":"have to like orient your mind around"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3099.445,"endTime":3101.365,"body":"delivering this kind of software."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3101.735,"endTime":3105.185,"body":"Russ, where can people go to learn more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3101.735,"endTime":3105.185,"body":"about LiveKit and what you're building?"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3106.191,"endTime":3108.081,"body":"you can check"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3106.191,"endTime":3108.081,"body":"out a few different places."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3108.101,"endTime":3110.961,"body":"Uh, so the website, of"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3108.101,"endTime":3110.961,"body":"course is LiveKit.io."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3110.981,"endTime":3116.688,"body":"Um, I think also important LiveKit is an"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3110.981,"endTime":3116.688,"body":"open source kind of project and company"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3116.688,"endTime":3120.768,"body":"like we built the, our commercial offering"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3116.688,"endTime":3120.768,"body":"around, our entire open source stack."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3120.768,"endTime":3126.648,"body":"So github.com/LiveKit is where"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3120.768,"endTime":3126.648,"body":"there's all of the repos in the code"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3126.648,"endTime":3130.013,"body":"and you can self-host it, and, and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3126.648,"endTime":3130.013,"body":"build with that without necessarily."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3130.428,"endTime":3131.238,"body":"Giving us money."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3131.298,"endTime":3132.798,"body":"though if you wanna give"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3131.298,"endTime":3132.798,"body":"us money, I won't complain."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3133.098,"endTime":3140.038,"body":"Um, and, uh, and of course, uh,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3133.098,"endTime":3140.038,"body":"LiveKit, is also on x, so x.com/LiveKit."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3141.148,"endTime":3146.428,"body":"you can also DM me on Twitter, um,"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3141.148,"endTime":3146.428,"body":"at dsa three letters on that keyboard"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3146.758,"endTime":3148.588,"body":"that you won't be using in a few years."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3148.888,"endTime":3149.188,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3149.588,"endTime":3150.908,"body":"From, from right to left."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3151.268,"endTime":3154.898,"body":"Uh, but, uh, it was, it was really a"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3151.268,"endTime":3154.898,"body":"pleasure to chat about this stuff and"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3154.898,"endTime":3158.838,"body":"I'd love to do a, a check-in down the"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3154.898,"endTime":3158.838,"body":"road and, see where we've ended up"},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3158.838,"endTime":3160.518,"body":"and how things are have progressed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3160.568,"endTime":3161.468,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3161.468,"endTime":3163.718,"body":"You know, we'll definitely be staying"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3161.468,"endTime":3163.718,"body":"in touch and we will get those,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3163.718,"endTime":3166.928,"body":"uh, links, uh, to our show notes as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3163.718,"endTime":3166.928,"body":"well so that our listeners can go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3166.928,"endTime":3169.598,"body":"check out the project, can learn a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3166.928,"endTime":3169.598,"body":"little bit more about its impact."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3169.958,"endTime":3172.388,"body":"thanks for joining us"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3169.958,"endTime":3172.388,"body":"on today's, um, episode."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3172.448,"endTime":3173.858,"body":"Clearly, if you're hearing me say this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3173.933,"endTime":3175.973,"body":"That you really liked it,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3173.933,"endTime":3175.973,"body":"you stuck around to the end."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3176.223,"endTime":3178.229,"body":"Uh, so thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3176.223,"endTime":3178.229,"body":"for making it this far."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3178.409,"endTime":3182.343,"body":"if you are listening, please be sure to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3178.409,"endTime":3182.343,"body":"go and, like our podcast, wherever you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3182.343,"endTime":3186.213,"body":"are listening to it, as well as Read"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3182.343,"endTime":3186.213,"body":"Our substack newsletter comes out every"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3186.213,"endTime":3188.253,"body":"Tuesday where we deliver our podcast."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3188.583,"endTime":3191.103,"body":"If you're only listening to the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3188.583,"endTime":3191.103,"body":"you're only getting about half the story."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3191.103,"endTime":3195.123,"body":"So be sure to check out that newsletter,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3191.103,"endTime":3195.123,"body":"Be sure to interact with us on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3195.273,"endTime":3197.823,"body":"You know, Russ give you a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3195.273,"endTime":3197.823,"body":"great places where you can go find us."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3197.853,"endTime":3199.293,"body":"Uh, you can also find us on there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3199.323,"endTime":3203.123,"body":"We'd love to continue the conversation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Zigler","startTime":3199.323,"endTime":3203.123,"body":"and we'll see you next time."},{"speaker":"Russ d'Sa","startTime":3203.629,"endTime":3204.429,"body":"Thanks so much, Andrew"}]}