What If The Badge Is Not Your Identity

The job trains you to win the fight, but it does not always train you to carry what comes after. From the middle of the TTPOA vendor floor, we sit down with Brad Ortiz (Science Shop) and Dwayne from the American Warrior Association to get brutally practical about officer wellness, resilience, and the kind of support that actually works for first responders, veterans, and families.

We dig into what “resiliency training” really means and why a proactive wellness framework matters just as much as firearms reps. The conversation gets specific on moral injury in law enforcement, how the steady drip of hard calls and broken systems rewires your stress response over time, and why the tipping point is rarely the one dramatic moment people expect. We also unpack culturally competent clinicians and why the right counselor has to understand the lifestyle, not just the diagnosis.

Then we zoom out to the bigger identity question: what happens when the badge becomes the whole self, and how do you build a life outside law enforcement without losing the mission to serve? Along the way, we connect the dots between SWAT culture, leadership, business decision-making, and relationship-driven integrity that lasts longer than any single purchase or contract.

If you care about first responder mental health, proactive resilience, and real-world tools for longevity, hit play, share this with your team, and subscribe so you do not miss what we are building next.

TTPOA Partnerships:

Jorge Pastore Foundation 

Law Enforcement training is essential for preparing officers to effectively and safely perform their duties. Everyone benefits from training, and by providing greater access to meaningful tactical training, we improve the lives of officers and the safety of our community. JPF was founded to honor the sacrifice of Officer Jorge Pastore and his passion for training.  We are proud to provide foundation-sponsored classes at no or low cost to law enforcement officers in various areas, including firearms training, defensive tactics & wellness.  In addition, we provide funding to officers seeking training outside of the central Texas area when approved by their department or association. 

https://www.jpastorefoundation.com/

The American Warrior Association

The American Warrior Association (AWA) is a faith-driven, research-based nonprofit dedicated to healing moral injury among service members, veterans, first responders, and their families. We provide faith-based healing, practical support, and comprehensive wellness programs to foster lasting resilience and spiritual strength.

https://www.awa-usa.org/programs/explore-awa-programs

Transcript

Cold Open And Conference Chaos

SPEAKER_02 0:02

You got the Texas talking bear cat rolling.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Warrant serving trigger pressing door slamming bad guy catching Son of a Gun Podcast. Woo!

SPEAKER_04 0:23

All right, guys. Welcome back to another uh TTPOA podcast along with uh Scott with Ironsight. So we uh partnered up and teamed up this year, and man, this is our uh last one of the conference. I bet Scott you're exuberated with the running on a drone, it's been an amazing time, actually.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

But uh yeah, last night I was wrecked. And uh today's been awesome. I've had some some really good guests, and I'm excited to talk with you guys.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

This is what the third one now, or it's the third one today. Yeah, so yeah, it's back to back, so back to back spinning and stuff. So, Matt, how are you doing, man? I'm great, man. How about yourself? I'm I'm busy. I'm lying, but I'm dude. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm running on caffeine and just anger right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:02

No, but it's fun. I'm good, but I've come trying to reserve myself because I got two days of teaching to do. So busy days are really there's still yet to come.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

Yeah, that's the thing, it's not over yet. Like I'm looking at all the other work we have to do and then taking this damn podcast thing down. I'm like, giddy, why do I volunteer for all this stuff? So it's good. It's for the money. Yeah, yeah. It's all the money that we make. All the money we make. Yeah, I'm about to retire with millions from TTOA. So it's

Podcast Fatigue And Keeping It Organic

SPEAKER_04 1:26

good. Well, we have a couple of guests on today that uh we wanted to bring on together because they've they partner with each other. So I'll start with about the man on my right. So, Brad, you want to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_07 1:38

Yep. So I'm Brad Ortiz, I'm director of sales over at Science Shop, been there for a couple of years now, and obviously we've known each other. What's you know real unique about the relationship here is you know, I'm cop, I'm still am, you know, I'm reserving now, and TTPOA is kind of close, close to my heart, an organization that I think is a game changer for officers, you know, pushing the envelope. And so glad to be here. Yeah, excited about it, man. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Yeah, you're you're unique because you kind of started me and Derek on our podcast journey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:08

That was a rough first episode, my friend.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

What was it called?

SPEAKER_07 2:12

So I had the Uncommon Line. I had the Uncommon Line for a few years. Yeah. Scott, and y'all can attest to this. It is a lot of work. So I applaud y'all. We grew, you know, had about a hundred thousand downloads a week on an episode and continued to grow and stuff like that. But the problem was it was just like I wasn't ready to hang up the badge fully yet. Yeah, which you and I have talked about, the struggle of that, and you know, selling ourselves short. And but we we grew that and took it out on the road, and then it just became so it was a lot of work, man. It's a lot of work, and then you know, we were making it profitable in regards to sponsorships and everything, but just that alone, you know, not wanting to chase the money for the wrong reasons and everything, it becomes a lot. And I mean, you you two can sit here and you know how much work this is, and I applaud y'all for because I remember back on the days of doing multiple episodes in a day, and it's just like it's a beating, right? Yeah, it actually to me it finds it very organic because you you found yourself bringing up stuff because you just get so tired, and then you find yourself where you thought the conversation was gonna go and it went totally different direction.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

So and then you feel like a bitch when you tell other people like, man, I've done this and I've talked all day, and you're like, Man, that sounds pretty weak, but it really is true. It's hard on your head.

SPEAKER_07 3:16

It's very, it's very mentally taxing, man, to sit here and talk to people. And then and and honestly, what you know, the podcast game is unique, and the people that are good at it are the ones that can take something that is dropped in the middle of an episode and kind of pivot to something and having that forethought and like being able to think at the same time and talk, to you know, to steer it, steer a podcast. And that's why I try to always keep it real organic. I never scripted anything, I never wanted anybody to have a script. I just wanted to come in and just let whatever happened happen. And so you find yourself when you're exhausted after interviews, like, you know, well, where did we go down that train?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Is anybody gonna listen to this? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 3:48

Why were we talking about squirrels for the past five hours?

SPEAKER_04 3:51

You know? And what's unique here is that I've I've been used to an environment where we do this and it's in a private room and things. So when we opened this up this year and the very first podcast we did, I'm seeing all my friends, I'm seeing this, and my eyes are going, my head, my thought process, and then I'm like, oh damn, we gotta go.

SPEAKER_07 4:08

I wanna tell you what I was going to do. Uh and I was stopped by our new events manager and our LE lead because I was just gonna take off my shirt and then have like TTPOA 2026 on here while y'all were in the middle of the conversation. I forget who it was, but it looked very serious. Yeah. So I was like, we're not gonna do that. Oh, I'd I would have appreciated it. I know you would have, but I, you know, I didn't know who the guest was, and I was like, it seemed like a serious episode, and it would have been really bad if it was like during an officer-involved shooting or something, and yeah, yeah, no, whipping my tits out.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

So you're you're good on that. But it was mentally like draining in the overstimulation of just things like that. When I got out, I went went to a TWA meeting and they asked me something, and I looked like I was a zombie, and they asked me again, I'm like, I don't know what you're saying. Slow down and talk to me. What are you saying? And they asked me after the podcast, and I was like, I'm sorry, my head is ringing, and I feel drunk and I haven't been drinking.

SPEAKER_07 4:56

It was weird. So I've said this many times to people that what we're doing and what we do outside of like this space and like talking to individuals, this is much harder to me than going through the door with a dude that wants to kill you on the other side. You know, that is the easy part, right? You've planned, you've thought about it, how many times you've rehearsed it, and then you go and you have to talk to people for three days straight, and it's a blast. But you just like you're gassing them like, man, why am I more tired here than I would be on an operation? It's just crazy, it's just weird.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

Well, as we're talking about here, I was like, I don't even know what we're going to talk about in this podcast, but we're just we're just gonna shoot the shit. So as we're discussing all this. But so going back to the original uh question about your podcast, so that's what got me and Derek. You invited us on, and I don't I couldn't even tell you how long ago that was, what we even talked about. I just know four years ago. I just know we had uh Basil Hayden blue label uh whiskey, and uh Chris was like, Hey man, anytime you get this, you better buy it. And I found it at the liquor store, and there's like four bottles like I'm just gonna get one, and I've never been able to find it since.

SPEAKER_07 5:56

Yeah, so I still have yet to find it. Yeah, I don't know what happened to it. No, I don't know. I don't know, but it's so good. Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

So that got us on our podcast journey, and then Derek came up and asked me, he's like, Hey, what do you think about doing a podcast for the organization? I'm like, hell yeah. Are you sure it's me and you? They're like, Man, they already approved it. I'm like, okay, I don't know what you're getting into.

SPEAKER_07 6:17

So now I guess hold my beer.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Yeah, I guess this is six, our sixth starting our sixth season now. Awesome with that. So, but yeah, thank you for kind of giving us the bug to do all that. So you've kind of been in my world, it's weird because I've been in law enforcement longer than you have, but on all this outside. You're old as fuck. Yeah, I know. So outside the law enforcement, you've kind of been paving the way uh for me because we think a lot alike on things. So it's been cool to have someone to look at and go, hey man, he's doing this. He's come, he's come from the LE world and kind of paving the way for what I'm going into. So it's it's it's been really cool how we kind of our cross, our path keeps crossing and things like that.

SPEAKER_07 6:55

So well, we talked about it before and like how we met too, you know, here it's like keep your circle small. And and it's funny, you know, even if you even when you look at something like this and you go, yeah, I'm gonna keep this circle small, and you have this idea of what that is, you find yourself opening up a little bit more, uh still to a small circle, but you find yourself opening yourself because the same people keep showing up, right? And it's like, all right, so there's a reason for that, right? And you can quickly delete, you know, the riffraff. That's the easiest thing. And it's so it's good to have y'all here. It's good to be here with you, Scott and Brandon. You know, I really appreciate it. It's it's fun seeing y'all grow and and seeing seeing the different areas y'all go in and the different episodes y'all have done and you know, career path, and and I'm glad we could be a part of it. And hopefully, you know, with us and our company, we can do more with y'all and continue to do stuff. I know we've talked for a year. I'm just trying to, you know, not drown at times. So I feel the same way, man. Like we're all in the same boat. Right, right. When you and I started talking, I had just taken over, and I'm like, dude, I'm trying to learn how to sell. Yeah, like I'm just trying to learn how to, I mean, literally, I'm handed a company, a multi-million dollar company, and they're approaching me and saying, Hey, we want you to start an Ellie division. And I'm like, Well, why me? You know, and it's like, so at the time when we met, it was like I'm just trying to survive of just figure out like life and everything. And at the same time, I was doing full-time, you know, fugitive work. So, but here we are.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

There we go. And speaking of partners, so this gentleman over Jamalaya, D. Wayne, DeWanye. DeWanye, I like that. I like that. So tell us about what you're doing because there's a partnership here. So let's get this going. So there's a couple different avenues we have with who you represent. So yeah.

Meet The Partners Behind The Work

SPEAKER_06 8:28

So, first off, thanks for having me on, gents. Super honored. I'm with the American Warrior Association, and uh, we are a 501c nonprofit based out of Fort Worth. We serve veterans currently serving military members, first responders, and spouses. And so we've got a couple of flagship programs that we do. We've got the Warriors Refuge, which is a week-long mountain getaway, which you've been on. And then we've got the R3 program, which is for agencies where it's a private public partnership. Yeah. So we come in and we help uh build a resilience framework and a wellness framework for the agency. And then we've got a couple other programs that we do. We've got a leadership academy, so we kind of pour into people that go onto the retreats. And it's I've been with them for a year now, and it's it's amazing. I get to meet gentlemen like you, like-minded individuals that are just I don't know if I'm a gentleman, but I appreciate that. Definitely not a gentleman. But tip of the spear, like-minded men. And so being able to give back to my own veteran community, but also be introduced to the struggles that law enforcement and first responders go through that society as a whole is just really not tracking, even veterans. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

And this is your first conference to go to is pretty, pretty uh overwhelming sometimes, like when you look at it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:41

It was not what I expected. I thought it'd be a little more classes. While there's definitely the tech talks, it's it's there's a lot going on. You know, y'all got shooting comps going, you've got the vendor show, we've got the podcast here in the middle of the vendor show. Like it's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

And then tomorrow is the actual training. So Saturday and Sunday will be the hardcore. Hey, here's what the here's what this organization is about. We're about training officers, uh, we're about serving them. So, you know, we have fun, we do all the fun stuff and the vendor show, and and that's such an important thing. But at the end of the day, we got to be able to train our guys and girls out there. So that's where the the the real fun really starts as far as the training and and all that. So, and then what if what has y'all's organization now done with uh our organization with TTPOA? So, yeah, y'all we all y'all partner with us and then y'all have also partnered with sponsor shops.

SPEAKER_06 10:32

That's correct. So we have partnered with TTPOA to do your resiliency training.

What Resiliency Training Actually Means

SPEAKER_06 10:36

So we're gonna provide quarterly trainings for you guys while y'all are doing your tactical training. Yeah, and that that's the first of its kind I know anywhere of the nation, where we're taking the the the elite of the law enforcement, and we're actually saying, hey, like we need to train your brain, like we're training your trigger finger, right? Yeah, the brain's a muscle. Yeah, maybe you just elaborate a little bit on resiliency training. What does that actually mean? Yeah, so the work you guys are doing just wears you down, right? And so it's not it's not PTSD, right? Like it's the calls, the gnarly calls y'all are taking, the the dead babies, the the domestic abuses, right? And so over the course of time, that's just eating it up, eating up your moral, your moral compass, right? It's moral injury. And so we're really tackling the moral injury side of what the the career is, right? It's tied into the work. Yeah. And so if just like stacking on a door and going into a room, the threat is there. Well, the threat is there also with the the mental side, right? So the resiliency is is just being in front of it, right? Training, knowing that you're gonna run into these things. And just like you've got to improve your qual, you've got to improve how you process that information and and how you deal with it. It's not 1980 anymore, right? Like it's not suck it up, but or not.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

It's an invisible injury too, which is a little bit of a tough thing for people to wrap their hand head around, I think, a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

So when I I know uh one of y'all's just core principles is culturally competent practitioners, yes, that's it. I was like, culturally comp so many big words. Yeah, explain that to make sense. I really fucked that one up.

SPEAKER_06 12:12

So the the technical term is culturally competent clinicians, right? And so my backstory, I I came back in the infantry for 14 years. I contracted, so I lived in Afghanistan from 2014 to 2020 once I got out. I didn't do any trigger pulling as contracting, I was over that, but still living there, eight-month rotations, coming back three weeks. Dark, right, for me after that. But on the outside, I was successful. I was running my own business, doing really well. Hit the bottle, yeah, got hooked up one night. They could have taken me in. They called my my kid. 14-year-old son's gotta come pick me up. So he drew the line. Wow. I'm done. Yeah, yeah. This is this is it, right? And so him and my wife had that talk. Go into the VA. I get introduced to my clinician, and he introduces himself with my pronouns are he and him. Oh wow. Turn around, walked out. So I went on a search to find a clinician or a counselor that understood kind of my background, and I found a uh little small place. The lady who owned the practice, she was married to an infantry guy for 20 years, and so I was like, all right, she gets it. That is cultural competency. I didn't know it at the time, right? So one of the big things R3 is doing is we find counselors and clinicians that understand the lifestyle because they've either lived it themselves or somebody in their immediate family is, you know. And that matters because I experienced it, right? And no first responder wants to walk in, offload their problems, and the counselor starts crying. And it happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

And so what y'all done when y'all partnered with our organization, y'all already did all the heavy lifting for

Culturally Competent Clinicians And Vetting Care

SPEAKER_04 14:06

us. So if you're in Lampassus, Texas, or you're in Waco, or you're in Paris, Texas, and you're a part of the association, you can go on our website and go, hey, I live in this area. Here's someone that's already been vetted that I can go to and feel confident with.

SPEAKER_06 14:21

Absolutely. It because you guys are based by regions, right? Right. And so we'll find those resources within each region.

SPEAKER_08 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:27

And then you guys have access to all of that. And it's not just for you. Like there's clinicians for the family. There's clinicians like I even sent my son to a clinician. Okay. And so because he lived that lifestyle, right? And he got it worse than my wife did.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

And so and so what I'll also understand with all that is we're we're implementing on our. And just like we have region directors for the, you know, tactical training, shooting, all that kind of stuff. From what I understand, we're going to be implementing some type of hey, you're over. This is your responsibility on the health and uh mental uh almost said mental retardation. But it's mental health part of that. Doing all that.

SPEAKER_06 15:09

So yeah, it's uh just like you guys got regional commanders or directors, yeah. You'll have like a resiliency coordinator.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Yeah, and that's important. That's what I was talking with Anna about that. I was like, well, you that is too much of a lift to put on a region director that we're having to do all this. I'm like, we have to uh prioritize this is your job, this is your lane, and and do that. This is your lane, because if not, I mean this whole this whole show is volunteer. Like there's no one here that gets paid a dime. So to run this show, how big it is. So we got to have guys that this is your job to run this show, this is your job to do training, this is your job to do the resilient. So but and y'all understood that. So it was the easy partnership with y'all, which is really good. And that leads you with with Brad. So you kind of got a hold of AWA through kind of TTOA when we started bringing them in, right? And yeah, 100%. You're like, hey, I'll be the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_07 16:02

I'm gonna look at my other beers here. Yeah, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Yeah, we we we could we could interrupt this show, no problem, man. Oh, thank you. Thank you for the beer. Man, I'll take it. How do I get the service? This is amazing.

SPEAKER_07 16:18

I joked with her, I was like, uh, whatever, and here we are. I love those. Yeah, so we we we got introduced through TTPOA and and one of those things, and I'm gonna give the same thing that I feel like I gotta come up with the new verbiage of what this means to us. But like when I stood up the program, I wanted to make sure that, you know, and I'm not gonna throw smoke at, I mean, people that know me, I'll throw smoke at anybody, especially if I don't like you but or don't believe in what you're doing. But the biggest thing here is there's a lot of vendors here, right? And then in the LA space, when it comes to sales, it's very cutthroat and it's very that's the Wa Wa West, right? And there's a lot of people here that are probably here for the wrong reasons in regards to like the dollar amount. They come here just to make the sale and that's it, right? And so I was trying to identify areas of how I could add value to just the transaction, right? Of you know, sales is all about relationship. The business is all about relationship. And if you're good at relationship and you actually provide value post sale and you maintain that relationship, the money's gonna come in. Yeah. And so I was trying to identify areas that I could do, and like some of the things that are real close to me, even like with the uncommon line and why I started it, trying to identify uncommon people in a common space, uncommon officers in a common space, was aligned with people that we can give back to that are gonna go out there and extend the mission statement and not selfishly. Like, I mean, there was there's been a couple situations where I reached out to them and I'm like, I don't want the I don't want the officer or the individual to know what company it is. And I don't I don't want it to be about us, I don't want it to be about anything. And you know, I I think that you provide that that further relationship into the sales pipeline, like everything will just fall into place. And so, you know, when I started started this and trying to figure out like how to run a you know a multi-million dollar sales pipeline in regards to growing business from nothing, right? It was what what do I have as my assets in the company, right? What can I leverage? It's already there to be able to have a quick ROI for just me, right? Because it was just me doing this, and I was still full-time law enforcement, so it was just like, what in the world? It was just you know, a big slap in the face. And it, you know, I literally think I was down at headquarters for like two days, and they handed me the commuter and the computer and said, go start a sales division. And I'm like, okay, all right. And so I started Sound Off program, which is our individual officer program, right? And I'm not dropping that as a sales pitch here, you know. But if you come and buy anything, it's great. Sounds shop.com, hit me up, you'll talk to me or Chris. But I wanted that to be a tool to sell first responders, military, fire, EMS, even though we really don't count the fire guys, uh, but they get the discount as well. Um I wanted to have a have an avenue, right, that'll be a lead generation, but then an avenue that maybe we can cultivate where we can give back, right? So then we started the sound warrior donation skew. So every sound off purchase you make, you get you donate two dollars or you can donate more. And we have a lot of people that have done it a lot more, and then we're gonna we put that money in the coffers to align with certain organizations, certain nonprofits, and everything like that. Like some of the stuff we've done here this week, you know, that that comes from that. But then I, you know, identifying like a true 501c3 that's actually impacting officers' lives post this, right? And and I I don't know how many I researched and dug into, and I'm just like, man, there's so much riffraff in that space, like there's so much bullshit, and people that are just in it for the money. We can talk about some of the big ones that are out there that we all know that you know you've got guys driving Bentleys and everything like that, and then we're barely giving anything to the fallen officer or the soldier, right? Um, and I came across AWA, and of course, speaking with Anna, she's incredible. And I just started doing research and reaching out, and then my my my lieutenant has a nonprofit, Righteous Oaks Retreats, and they were teamed up with R3. Oh, and I was like, man, this is a small ass world. So the more and more I started digging into it, and then you know, with my own struggles and everything, I mean, you can go listen to the podcast there. I kind of first time in my entire life, I I've told, you know, very candidly what I've gone through and the struggle with mental health and you know, the attempts on my life. And and I think like there was just something about the organization that I was like, this is what I want to be a part of, and this is what I want our company to be a part of. And when they gave me the reins to this, I'm like, you know, I could have gone with a lot of other people that probably would have positioned us better for sales, right? Or, you know, more, more bigger names, so to speak. It's not about that, right? At the end of the day, I just want to change officers' lives and give them a tool and and and provide value. And so aligning with AWA and R3 is just it it fits so perfectly, right? And you know, as we start to build that up and have more money in there, we'll be able to do more for more people. And and again, we don't want the recognition. I'm not here to talk about the recognition of this, but I am 100% here to make sure that even if I'm selling on an officer a suppressor and it's gonna save their life and save their hearing, what are we doing post that, right? You and I had this conversation today with training, and and but the biggest part of this that I feel that I'm more excited about is is partnering with organizations like this.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Yeah, and and and it's funny, so I guess y'all had a show in St. Louis or somewhere here recently, right? Yes, I lead up, yeah. And then Anna went to it, y'all and you invited her, and it was cool. So I was listening to her after she got back and just telling me, hey, I got to meet these people and this bill, and it's cool just how the network starts growing. And and that's what we're here for is just to promote that because hey, we have a a great plan in place, and then she came out and kind of debriefed the other uh state organization. So we're looking at expanding because, like, hey, we're not sharing any, we're sharing the secrets, we're not keeping the secrets. So I that's what I enjoy about just partnering with people that are like minded and and have the the right goal. Because a while back was talking with you about the podcast, and you're like, Hey, let me let me get some things straight, and then all of a sudden, man, you just call me and Scott up, like, hey, here's what we're doing. So we do appreciate you the financial commitment that you that you gave to the podcast. And I was gonna have you on regardless of all that. And and so it's it' and You know me well enough. It's not about, hey, you gotta give me this. It's like, but we do appreciate just the partnership you've been with TTOA, the partnership you've been with us, and just how that works. And but you're doing it out of the at the genuineness of your heart because it's not about the fluff and everything like that. And you're here because you could have done other things. He's so famous.

SPEAKER_07 22:21

Wave one more time.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Bye, buddy. They're really good. But in there, and we I just brought them in because I'm

Holistic Fitness Beyond Looking Strong

SPEAKER_04 22:28

doing their their program with the uh brain coding and brain mapping and me going through that whole thing.

SPEAKER_07 22:33

So when you figure out the brain, let me know.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

Dude, I am telling you, it's we're gonna do a podcast with them, but when I first did my brain mapping, I sat down and then I did it and then came back, and she is telling me just by looking at the map of my brain, I left there and I'm like, this person has known me my whole life. What they were able to tell me, just what my brain was doing, I'm like, this is scary. I'm like, okay, I'm I'm starting to believe in that.

SPEAKER_07 22:57

So when there's not enough of that in the space, and I know you know this. Like I've been I've been in it, you know, in the you know, I got up to 300 pounds and some of the worst points in my life, and it's horrible. And getting back in the gym and after I broke my back and and really leaning into like not only the mental side of it, but like, you know, the the functional medicine side of it is just it is lacking in this space. Like everybody just wants to pump a bunch of TRT. I'm all for it. But like there's so many other things out there that have just taken me to the next level, like whether that be peptides or stuff dealing with your brain and everything like that, brain health and all that. And then we're missing the mark on that exponentially. And I started working with dynamic health. I was advanced an ambassador for them for a while, and I just couldn't keep up with the amount of stuff we were having to do. But that's another thing, like anything like that that officers can invest in, right? That you know will help to me they go they go hand in hand, right? On the mental health and the work ethic and your physical health, you know, is just and we so many of this, and I know in this space it's a little bit more rare because we've got all of our SWAT boys that are, you know, no offense to you, but you know, they uh, you know, that are that are physically fit, right? And they invest in that, right? But there's still a lot of them that you go back and you look like, are you really fit? Because it's not just about the the I can run two miles and do how many burpees and all that, it's the other side of the things like just down to joint health, stomach health, sleep health. And trust me, I I don't sleep. So I don't even take my own advice.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Well, it's funny, so Matt shot the competition yesterday as well, and so we're getting you know our clo gear on and stuff, and I'm over there and I'm like limping over there, and he's an old dude too, like me. And we've been on the team, you've been 21 years, I got 21 years just on SWAT alone. And we're like, damn man, I wish we'd have known what's like guys like you are pushing out and other people like if I'd have known this when I was 21 when I got in the department, and this would have my career would look different now and longevity and stuff, because like you said, the hips and the back and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Well, okay, it goes to the what American Warrior is doing too, and making sure that's getting introduced early, like this is what's coming, right? You may not be feeling this now, but here's some tools, here's some things to be aware of, the things that are gonna come up. So you you mentioned the word being fit. Yeah, like to me, that's a very broad term. What are we talking about here? We talk, you know, you people think like the physical, how you look in the shirt or whatever else, but there's the the psychological, emotional fitness, right? There's there's the physical fitness side. That's that's a very high-level thing when we start digging down to like what does that actually mean? How do you how does that apply to the things that you do? Financial fitness, you know, how do you keep yourself together? How do you, you know, from that respect, your your your relationships, the fitness there, you know, at family, at work, all that kind of thing. So it's a super broad term, but it it absolutely, in terms of have having it be introduced without things like this and folks like this that are pushing it from the outside. And that's the interesting part, is it's coming from the outside to inside the institution, right? Again, you mentioned like the TRT and whatever. Everybody knows about that now, like that. But what they that they just know that that works, right? Or I feel better. Well, maybe you do like for on this particular aspect of it, but how is that impacting these other aspects? And they don't they don't necessarily understand their own owner's manual, right? And every one of those is similar, but it's different.

SPEAKER_07 26:05

And what's crazy is you can even provide them the owner's manual and we choose not to read it. They won't read it. Yeah, because I mean here's the deal there's been plenty of pieces of IKEA furniture that I set up, and the boards are backwards and stuff, so it's like, you know, but it's it you can you know lead a horse to water, you know, any of that stuff, but it's very true to like it's that's very well said.

SPEAKER_06 26:22

I I'd like to make a point to what y'all were talking about physical fitness, right? A lot of times dudes will lean into the physical fitness overcompensate exactly, right? Like I'm gonna look extremely squared away on the outside, right? And that is the beautiful part of what y'all are talking about that R3 provides is it's a holistic wellness and resiliency program.

SPEAKER_07 26:44

It's not just I talked about this on y'all's like I see these guys out here, and we see how many people are here, how many attendees this time? Almost a thousand. Almost a thousand, yeah. Every one of these guys are struggling in a different way. Whether they want to realize it or not, whether they and it may, it has not popped its head up yet, right? And it will. And there will be times. And for others, it's it's more severe, right? There's been, you know, I've I've been in, you know, been involved in a lot, seen a lot of guys, seen a guy. I mean, y'all been on two very active teams, very active SWAT teams, right? And you may think you're okay in a certain point, and you just find these things rearing up, and especially if you don't have that fitness, right? Of all these avenues, it comes up somewhere. I don't, I don't, I don't care who it is. You can be Billy Badass, you can be the most badass dude here. Something, you know, there's a tipping point for somebody at something all the time.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Yeah, no, for sure. It it definitely is. And it and it is it there's different levels. It doesn't have to be the extreme of, you know, I'm gonna take my life or hey Joe, what what's going on? Hey, you go another thing. So there we go. Wave, wave, say hi. Oh, squirrel there. So there's different levels of that. It could be just, man, of you know, from the extreme to something that's that's just affecting my performance at work or or or I know for me the whole moral injury thing was a was a big thing. So kind of explain that. We'll we'll shoot over that because I think I just derailed all this when I started. No,

Moral Injury And The Hidden Deposits

SPEAKER_04 28:12

no, no, no. But when you come to when you when you hear mental uh or uh moral injury moral injury. There you go. You can tell I am struggle bus right now. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 28:22

I'll give you an example, like my own history to kind of plug in the puzzle pieces, right? So I came back and told you I found that that counseling, that counselor, paid out of pocket for a year and a half. Yeah. I did the MDR, ART, couples. I was good. Yeah. Why am I still snapping in traffic? Yeah. Why am I cussing an old lady out and then got her grocery cart in the aisle and just well, well, exactly, right? I know I'm not alone. And so I I couldn't figure out those things. And then I got the job with American Warrior and I went on my first retreat. And then that's where I learned about moral injury and all the tools for it. That fuse was ten times longer now. All those individual things that would just piss me off, I don't care anymore. Like it's not gonna change. So moral injury is not PTSD, right? It's not a single traumatic event, it is something that goes against your moral compass, right? So cops understand this word, right? It means you either perpetrated in something, you failed to prevent something, yeah, or you were ordered to do something that goes against your morals. Yeah. And if you think about the job and you think about the bullshit that you're dealing with command, it and it's it's police, it's fire, it's EMS, it's telecommunicators. Hell, I even talked to some soldiers on the border because we're doing some stuff with the National Guard. Yeah. And they got told when people were crossing, babies were drowning, to stand down. They could not go in and save them. Oh wow, that's a yeah, that's a that's a big one there. Right. And so all these guys and girls, right, they they think that they're not broken because maybe they haven't gotten an OIS. Yeah. Maybe they maybe they're not stacking on doors.

SPEAKER_08 30:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:15

But the calls, the 2 a.m. calls, the dead babies, the all that, once you, once you add those up, how many critical incidents have you gone to? I I had forgotten breaking them.

SPEAKER_05 30:29

I just forgot all many.

SPEAKER_06 30:31

What about you?

SPEAKER_05 30:32

Yeah, my share.

SPEAKER_06 30:33

Yeah. I mean, there's been so many. When you asked those exactly, right? When we asked Chief Neil Nokes out of Fort Worth Police Department, yeah, how many you been on? He was like, I don't know. Yeah. So when you take that over a 20-year career, that is just compounding and compounding and compounding. And then it's just gonna blow up, like you said, it's gonna pop up.

SPEAKER_07 30:52

Well, here's what I find interesting about this. And I'm gonna say something for a lot of people that may make them uncomfortable and and and maybe counterintuitive, and you know, I don't know, but the OIS is almost for the easy words, right? For and especially for guys like yourself and or like-minded individuals that I'm going through that door, I know he's going to kill me, yeah, and I'm going to win, right? You kind of already prepared for that. You accept it. You've accepted that, right? Now, I'm not saying there's not struggle with that of taking the life and anything, but you've you've rehearsed it so many times, and it's all your focus, the ones that are, you know, truly switched on, right? And you know, hey, I'm going to go in there, I'm going to win at all costs, right? But it's the other ones, then you let your guard down and you go respond to these other ones, especially not full-time guys that have, you know, that work in part-time and they got to go answer calls for service. And they go and serve and they go in the you know the neighborhood and they're answering calls for service and they're responding to all these other calls. And they start stacking up. And those are the ones, and that's that's to me the perplexing one that we we tend to forget about that is far more impactful, I think. Right now, the OIS may be the kick factor that kicks off something, right? Like they're just the tipping, the tipping point, but it's the other stuff that we just dismiss and we forget about. And and we don't really forget about, we shove down, right? Yeah, and then all of a sudden it comes, it comes to a head. And to me, that's that's the struggle, right? And that's where it's like trying to get these guys to understand that and see that and be okay with that. For how many years have we looked at mental health incorrectly in the LE space? No, completely incorrectly, right? And so it's the more and more that we can start realizing these other these other factors that truly pay pave the way for more issues, and then we can make let them start accepting that, I think is gonna be, you know, we're on the precipice of something here. I really don't think we are.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

I think the uh an easy analogy for probably a lot of people, maybe not, just kind of goes back to the financial fitness piece is the concept of compound interest. And, you know, if you're if you're investing, right, you're you're making these small deposits over time, right? And you start to, you're, you're paying in, and at one point there's an inflection point, and that's what you want, right? Like you've been paying in, I've been paying, I've been paying, making these deposits, making these deposits, and then at some point, like that thing kind of skyrockets the hockey stick kind of happens, right, on your investment portfolio, and you're like, yes, yes, that's what you're that's what you're searching for, and or that's what you're investing for. It's the same thing in this respect. There's deposits are being made along the way, and you're you're not really thinking about it. It's coming out of your paycheck on the other end, right? This one is taking, it's it's it's different, it's being downloaded, right? It's being stored, it is doing things, it is reorganizing how your brain works, it's reorganizing how your hormone works, how how you respond to things. And ultimately, maybe the OIS is the inflection point, right? Where like this thing explodes. And what's interesting is one, they're not understanding those deposits. Number two, the the inflection point, whatever it is, actually gets ignored and it's it's like it's there, but I'm trying to continually tamp that down, not understanding that you have now tipped over the edge. And where that shows up in life, and again, those are the things that American Word, you know, is trying to prepare people for and and help them through at the end of the day, is what the trickle down process is. If you if you're paying into an investment portfolio or whatever, and it's something the stock market tanks or whatever, whatever, you're feeling that financially, and that hurts you right away in whatever way you know you're thinking about or however that that impacts you on this end of things, man, the trickle down process there and the widespread impact that that has on family relationships, your internally, what's going on physiologically with you, and that is a very, very slippery slope, man. Very slippery slope.

SPEAKER_07 34:33

You know, you talk about the physical aspect of it. You know, when I get when got my cortisol tested, you know, when I was going through all this functional medicine stuff, I think it's one of those things that we just we we don't ever we don't ever judge that at law enforcement. Like I never had anybody tell me, hey man, you go get cortisol checked. Like, here's what's going on, here's what's going on with your body, and here's why. And so you start, I I I challenge people to really go get an in-depth blood panel, like a true blood panel, not just, hey, what's my red blood cell count? What's all this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

It's not gonna be from Kaiser, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_07 35:02

No, 100%. You know, it's go get a true blood test and see what's going on with your buddy, uh, your body, and do it during a very stressful time.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah, do it. I I would encourage you, so I would challenge that and say you need to do that before all this starts. Like this should start at the beginning, so you have a baseline.

SPEAKER_07 35:15

I think it should be done in the academy. Yeah, I 100% believe it needs to be done in the academy because if I look here, here's the I said this on their their episode too. If I look back and, you know, some of the issues that came up and you know my struggle and everything, this was before cop work, right? You know, the prior stuff. And we don't ever take that into consideration. Like I look at back. Exactly. I look back at our psych tests, it's a fucking joke, right? And I'm not saying I'm psychotic, I mean I'm crazy. No, we are. But you know, it's there was so much of that, and then you get in there and it's like there's no baseline for you to go. And so I look, I look back and I take that all for granted. I go, man, I wish I'd done this eight years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah to really know like what has really changed physiologically. Number one, for me, I like to see the change and the positive of it. I would have known what I was before and then what it was at the worst, and then what I am now, right? Uh, I think that's all pretty cool. But we just take all that for granted, man. And we just, like you said, we deposit that. And then guess what? When it's time for you to cash out, a lot of officers aren't ready to cash out. And you know, it goes, it goes into what we were talking about, like in our careers and everything. The hardest thing is giving up this badge, right? But for a lot of people, that cash out doesn't have to be giving up the badge. It just means investing that, cashing that out of that depository. And then I'm gonna take this investment, I'm gonna go actually put it into something that's gonna be a good ROI, right? Yeah, and and and we just we're so afraid to pull money out, and then that we're not willing to make the money anywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

You guys are also terrible at asking for help.

SPEAKER_07 36:34

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_07 36:37

Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

It's horrible. Yeah. It it it is an interesting thing. Sorry, and Kim's gonna kill me. Oh boy. Sorry, Kim. Yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_08 36:46

I promise, Kim. I promise.

SPEAKER_07 36:48

Coasters, man. But of course, she's not gonna know my name, you know, she's been calling me Drew all week. That's that's true. She's saying to be Drew.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

But going back to what you said as far as the the OIS stuff, and it and and I I do understand that, and it does sound callous, or it sounds like you're just no, it I always go back to that person made a choice that caused me to make a choice. Yeah. And but the part of that that no one understands is the like the social media side, the uh the way society may view you, or now with the way social media is, you have now critics really quick that are on our that are on quote our side that are commenting about things, and I'm like, man, that's that going back to that moral injury because I didn't realize that was shit I was dealing with when I had my OIS off duty and my family's there and all this shit. And I'm listening to the blogs. Well, I mean I mean 08 the blogs were you know popular, but it's nothing. I mean they were written on the paper. Yeah, so so now I'm like that shit I didn't realize caused me more issues than anything else. The the the shooting that was just that was just part of the thing. The other stuff that you don't get is and the social media, this, this, and this, and that bombard because I'm I can't fight the internet, I can't fight the keyboard warrior, I can't fight the dude posting about this. And for me, I didn't realize that was my issues, and I started teaching this class about it, and I would get so mad, but I couldn't control the other outside factors, and and no one ever told me about that kind of stuff. And going back to the culturally competent clinician, I go into this guy and he's picking his nose and wiping the booger on on the underneath the seat, and we're three feet away with no table between us, and I'm like, what the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

That's not fair, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

And I'm thinking, is this the test to come in and say, hey, you're a wacko. Should I say something? Should I not? And then he does it again, and I'm like, well, did I do good?

SPEAKER_07 38:53

So I mean you got to pick my nose and put it in my chair in front of you.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

So it goes back to things like that, and and that and that's a passion of mine. Like, like to me, we come to these things for the training. Hey, when the guy chooses the vote and his vote is to take your life, we're training you to respond to that, or even to get to the point where it's not even there because we trained you to see what's about to happen, but we're also now training you, hey, when this does happen and you do the righteous thing, we're also adding these layers to help. You're not finding you're not finding out about it then. Yeah, yeah. Because that was my whole thing when I tell when I teach my class, hey, if you're ever involved in off-duty shooting or on-duty shooting, do not go on the internet. Like, do not, you're never gonna win that because someone is gonna say something and they have no fucking idea what actually. They say whatever they want. Yeah, and and you can't combat it. And so that's where I go back to that whole just moral injury. It it I mean, it's I mean, I'm I'm over it now, but it it fires me up because I'm a passion about that.

SPEAKER_07 39:54

So No, it's very it's very true. I mean, you haven't arrived until you got a meme made of you, you know, from a from a situation.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:01

And, you know, it's it's you look back, we joke about that, right? Like right then, right there. You know, you joke about that. I look back and I'm I still have the meme on my phone. And I'm like, and I remember in the time just being so bothered, you know, so, so bothered by that. And you and nobody's really approached that that thought process, right? Like again, I could say the easy one is you shoot some someone, you go put get put towards a grand jury, and is that another famous person, you know? I don't know that guy. Okay, so that's a good thing. It was kind of scary. I was like, I hope we're all carrying here because I don't know what's about to go down. Brain is the popular one, he's the slavery, that's why I'm stopping him. Um but you you you go back to it and you start thinking about you know that approach, and and you have the guy that's going to the grand jury. That's hard, right? Yes. You have the but the even the righteous ones, yeah, you're completely justified. And everybody's like, hey, good to go. Just having the negative influence out there on the internet of these people that just don't understand it is a lot. And you just take that, you really just don't look at it, you don't take a step back, and you really assess what that does to a person and what it does to an officer, you know?

SPEAKER_04 41:01

And it does. And I hate because I'm like, there's something about this job that you have to be tough. But there's also the other side of like, hey, I just need some other tough guys to to come along with to understand this experience and and and and what's going on. Because at the end of the day, this job is not a job, it's a career calling. I truly know the guys that do it the right way. They are ordained for this job. It's a lifestyle. Yeah, yeah, it is. I I I know the sacrifices Matt makes. I know how dedicated he is to the team that he works for. And that's a long on-the-gas career when you do it right. You can fuck off and do all you want and go sit in the car and dodge the calls and all that kind of stuff. And I'm very critical, Matt's very critical of the guys that do that. So when we say all that, I don't really you can F off if you're that kind of officer because I don't want you in my circle. I don't want to will I help you out? Yes, I will. But at the end of the day, you have chosen your whole career not to help out the rest of the group and and be a part of this because we everyone is a critic of what we do. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. No good deed goes unpunished in this job. I'm okay with that. Matt's okay with it, you're okay with that. But there's there is some toll that it plays on you because you're like, dude, I can't catch a fucking break.

SPEAKER_07 42:27

Yeah. Well, and it's funny you say this, you know, when my going to the transition, you and I've talked about this of getting out

Identity After The Badge And Transition

SPEAKER_07 42:33

full time. I was not ready to, I was on a such an awesome team having a blast. Fugitive work is what I chased. I had a blast doing it, and I struggled with leaving it, right? Yeah. Because, and honestly, when I, you know, I hadn't ended up going to counseling for it. I mean, because I mean it fucked my world up because I was like, this was my identity.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 42:50

I said this was my identity, and I identified everything in that, everything I've done. Of course, like coming from the two families, you know, my wife and I's family, like everybody's cops, right? I mean, it's just everybody's served, everybody's cops. So there was a part of it that was like, Am I gonna be able to go to the Christmas dinner table? Because I'm like, are they gonna accept and stuff? And and granted, I still kept my creds and I'm still doing stuff, and just to keep my foot in the door and I love it because I'm passionate about it, because I do believe it's a calling. Yeah, but I challenge officers to really take a step back and go, this is your true identity. And and I think when we we we look at this on the outside, that's not our identity, right? It's our calling. Yeah, and I think there's two different portions of that and a delineation between the two to really say, if we say this is our identity, if this is truly our identity, identity, we would be taking care of ourselves, you know, and everything aspect of that, right? We would 100% be fully into this like we are in our marksmanship skills, like we are in every other aspect of this. And so I say it's our calling, right? And so for guys to really get out of there and go, hey, what it what identifies me, and you know, Simon Sinek, you know, what is your why, right? I challenge every guy here to figure out what their why is, right? And if it's the job, that's cool. I challenge you to really take a deeper, you know, deeper look into that. Of like what truly is your why. And because once I started questioning that, and I took a step back, and you and I talked about this, like you made the decision, you jumped, and you're like, oh yeah, this is great. Yeah. You know, there's so much more out there. And that's not for everybody. I'm not trying to talk anybody out of law enforcement. I am trying to talk the ones out of the job that are those fucking people that are just sitting there not doing anything that wouldn't would not go through a door with me for the life of us, right? I 100% want those guys off the job. And yet those are the guys that would probably sit there and go, man, this is my identity. You know, brother. This isn't even your calling, dude. And so I challenge a lot of these guys really if we start taking a step back and looking at, you know, all everything we've talked about here, like, what is your why and why are we doing this, right? The direction and the path forward of who we are as individuals at the heart of it, right? Because we were somebody before we put the uniform on, right? The uniform does not define you, nor should you define the uniform, right? No. This is just our calling and what we do.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

Yeah. And and that leads me to when you go on the Warriors Retreat or Warrior's Refuge. Yeah. Is that Warriors Refuge? I know there was a name change and stuff.

SPEAKER_07 45:04

You're really mixing up a lot of words. Yeah, I'm telling you, man. I'm starting to get some anxiety because I'm like, man, I I gotta I'm like in the future, I gotta check all these words and this stuff.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

Oh, I know. And Anna's gonna be like, you said that, you didn't say that right. But the very first uh program or the uh session when you go on the program is what is your identity? What is your identity? And I think that sets the foundation of that whole program because it really get challenges guys to to see, okay, who really what am I identifying this in? And and and you're right, that is a the it is hard not to say the the police world is your identity, especially when you're trying to perform at a high level and do all that. But like you said, there's a lot more to that, and I think guys need to really explore that.

SPEAKER_06 45:53

So well, if you look at the statistics, right? What's this what's the number or the percentage of uh law enforcement officers once they they retire? Like the the health declines pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_07 46:02

Yeah, yeah. It's especially those 40, 50 year officers, you know. I mean, how many I mean how many stories have we heard that they're done? And I mean, I equate it to this. If you're married to the job, I equate it to like my grandparents, you know, my grandma and grandpa, and you you've heard this story so many times. One passes and then shortly after the other one passes, right? Yeah, well, I honestly think sometimes people put their identity into their job so much that when they lose that and they don't safeguard in something else, that everything just declines because that was your true identity. And and I love people that have this much passion for this job, and I and I have it. But rest assured, I want people to know that, like, look, like outside of work, who you are matters, right? And your trajectory in life isn't defined by this soul one thing, right? It's the compounding, the totality of everything, right? And and there's a true correlation to those ones that, you know, hey, I did 40 years and then they pass away within weeks. Yeah, yeah. I mean, how many times have we heard that story?

SPEAKER_03 47:00

And you're like, damn, I mean, that's I mean, you didn't even get to fish.

SPEAKER_07 47:04

Yeah, you know, I'm like, there's so much life to live and so much to do. And and and then on the other side, the conflict I have is I want that guy that's so invested in it.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Yeah, like you know, it's that's that struggle of like the blessing and the curse and building and being a member of a tribe.

SPEAKER_04 47:20

Yeah, 100%, you know? It it definitely is. I feel that, and it and it it can get you in the police world not liked by certain administrations and things like that because there is that passion, there is that like, hey, I got this fire to go do this, and then you get your ass whipped a few times, you're like, eh.

SPEAKER_07 47:38

I became a cop to drive fast to kick ass. Yeah, okay. Like, I did not become a cop. I mean, granted, the ones that like to write tickets and stuff, like, cool, that just wasn't for me. Like, that, and I'm glad there are people that do that. But I mean, it is the best show on the earth. I mean, there's no no doubt about it. But I also just, you know, in the last, you know, year of especially being taking a step out of it, you know, in the full-time space, I'm like, man, you know, I've missed a lot, right? I've done so much, I've had a blast, I've met tons of people, I've gotten connected to people like yourself. But then you're like, man, what have I missed? Because I've put so much in that as my identity, right? And I think if I had done a different approach of like, what is my why, so to speak, behind everything, I think it would have had a different outlook on stuff and handled my career a little bit differently. You know, not necessarily the career path, but just situations and relationships and everything like that. Um, I said it on, I said it, I keep saying this, not that I'm repeating everything on the podcast, but have a life outside of law enforcement.

SPEAKER_08 48:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:33

Like have a life outside of law. I mean, the first five years, all I did. I mean, you put your belt on, you're looking in the mirror, I look like a fucking badass. You you go to work, you go out to friends, you go hang out with the friends that you were just on shift with, you, and you repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And I look back now and have great friends, but I really wish there was a time that I could have been, man, why wasn't I doing some of my hobbies? Yeah. Still kind of keeping my my internal soul of who I am at the root of it. But I don't want to take that away from the guys that this is a passion, it is a calling, because that's we're not talking about that. That's there is 100% a passion and calling for that, for those that have served. And I don't want guys to lose that at all.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

Yeah, no, it is a uh it is a hard balance for sure.

SPEAKER_07 49:14

Yeah, and so with you fixing to step out, you know, it's uh it's it's one of those things. But I I I bring that up because not that I want good guys to leave this career because right now, God knows we need dudes that are switched on and good people to stay in this career, especially in the what do going having to hire employees right now, holy fucking shit. There is so much dog shit out there of people post-COVID that just do not want to work. And so we don't want to lose guys, but I would tell you to the people that are listening, for those that don't think you're capable more or anything outside of law enforcement, do not sell yourself short because there is a world, and you and I have talked about this, where you can do so much, and we constantly tell ourselves as officers, well, I'm just not capable of that, not capable of starting a business, not capable of leaving and going and running a hundred and forty million dollar revenue stream. Um, I I I've said this many times. I much rather take the cop who's never done business into the boardroom than the fucker that went to Harvard. Yes. Because at least you're gonna make a fucking decision, and at least you're gonna you've done this. You've spent your entire career selling. I don't want to fight, I don't want to argue, the domestic, you know. And so for guys that are looking in that transition moment, like yourself, of like, what am I gonna do? Post this and everything, it's out there, guys. And and and the workforce needs it and needs guys to think about themselves and go. And I go back to what is your why of like, man, I can really do this, right? There, there's a purpose outside of this, and I have skills. I had an officer here the other day, he goes, Man, I just don't have the skills to go do any of this. I said, Don't ever come to me and say that again. I won't give you any free swag. I won't even let you buy a can because I just you're selling yourself so short of your potential and everything you have here. Every one of these guys here don't realize the potential they have as a human being outside of law enforcement, and whether that's you doing something while you're in law enforcement. The whole reason I started the podcast was I wanted to build my resume and a business resume aspect of it, change lives at the same time, and have that skill set rather than just going and clocking at Buffalo Wild Wings, getting paid $75 an hour for a part-time. There's four of that, right? I think everybody needs to do that, but every one of these guys have a skill set here that they they they sell themselves way short to the potential post post-law enforcement.

SPEAKER_06 51:27

Yeah, you got to think about it. You'll spend the whole career, and I I've lived what you did, right? Yeah, 14 years in the military, six years contracting, came back, started a business. I was scared shitless. But I knew I didn't want to go into the corporate world. Yeah, right. And so going into that and starting it is scary. I think once the individuals get past the initial decision to say, I'm gonna do this, first up, that that's that's the hardest part about running a business, that first step, because the amount of training doesn't directly correlate, but like you said, operational, you're all always thinking, you're making a decision and you're gonna see it all the way through.

SPEAKER_07 52:11

And that I mean, I told I told a VP of a very, very large publicly traded company that we just signed a contract with. I I asked him when he was not wanting to make a decision or something. I said, but did you die? But did you die? And I'm like, just make a decision, dude. What's the worst that happens, right? We lose a million dollars of CapEx or we make 240 million dollars next year. Like, okay, cool. A million dollars to them is nothing, right? And and I honestly think that you would have the business guy that would have gone in there and would analyze that whole thing and been like, well, maybe I just regress a little bit and then reapproach the pitch. No, just did you die? Make make a decision. The world I come from. If you don't make a decision, you're dead or a teammate's dead or a citizen's dead, right? And and that is that is business training one-on-one. Yeah, that is it.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

And and you're so right on that because I'm I've I've I've experienced that now in things. And like Scott's Scott's been a mentor of mine of just listening because his world is different than mine, and where he's been and and doing business and being an executive and managing people and leading people and then having your own business and stuff like that. And I look at that and go, well, you take you take Matt over here. He's bald, he's 50, he's you know, got a redneck man. He's got a redneck accent, but but I look at like Scott and go, hey man, you look at what Matt's done and Matt's passion, and hey Scott, would you hire him to go do what? Because why? Well, I mean, from a person that looks at and wants to hire, why would you hire Matt? Because what reasons would could you give me?

SPEAKER_00 53:39

They're pretty simple, yeah. Actually, when you break them down. I mean, the guy the guy knows how to do hard work, right? He's gonna be he's gonna do it whether I ask him to or not. Like he's proven himself there. He's got grit, right? And he's not gonna be afraid to get into hairy situations. And more importantly, it's I think it's the thing you said, like maybe he makes the wrong decision on whatever it happens to be, but he's gonna make a decision. And I'm he's gonna learn from that, I'm gonna learn from that. We move we again to your point, it's either 100 million, you're putting 100 million in, but here is the benefit or the potential upside, and I and he's gonna know that. Like he's he's gonna be able to to to you know basically look at this matrix of things and go, This is the goal, this is where we're trying to get to. And I know that if I give that guy the autonomy, right, to do the things the right thing, he's going to do the right thing. So what I tell my guys I can't be mad at him for that, like if it doesn't work out the right way. But I tell my guys is you got a job, Matt.

SPEAKER_05 54:34

There you go.

SPEAKER_07 54:34

There you go. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_05 54:35

I'll work for Scott. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_07 54:37

Yeah, I will I I tell my guys this as long as you're not making a decision that's unethical, illegal, or immoral, I'm gonna stand behind you. And I've had I've had plenty of guys recently that I'm like that one hurt, you know, but I stand behind them and I go, hey, look, I got your back, right? Like I'll I'll go to the fence for you because I much rather you make that decision. And half the time, dude, and you know this, most of the time when you end up making that decision, it's a good decision, right? It may not have been the best decision, it may not have been the most lucrative, put us in a way better position, but it's not a negative decision, right? And again, I go back to, and it could be a failure point for me. I mean, for the business guys that listen to this, I could be completely fucking off base. But, you know, at the same time, like, okay, yeah, we just don't make as much money, or we don't make any money at all. But I I didn't lose my life. You know, my CEO, you know, our COO tells me all the time he here he sees me stressing again. It is so much easier going through the door of the guy wanting to kill you than sitting in a boardroom and going, they're talking about spreadsheets and numbers and Excel and AI this and EDI and all this bullshit. And I'm like, I leave the meeting, everyone's like, You got it? I'm like, absolutely not, but I'll chat GPT everything we just talked about. But you know what? Like, at the end of the day, like, we just make the decision and and and put yourself forward. And I almost guarantee you the majority of the time, it's gonna put you in a better position.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Yeah, yeah. Well, what like business owners that hey, it's it's my business. I built this. The people that work for me, they rely on me keeping these doors open because of money, car payments, house payments, college tuition, all that kind of stuff. That pressure that like that you go through and and and you were bat. Any day of the week, give me a late night, 3 a.m. stop of a vote. Well, buddy, I'm about to tell you something, you're about to feel it.

SPEAKER_07 56:24

And once you start getting people underneath you, like, I mean, here's the deal, you because what rank were you, Lieutenant? No, shit. I've just always stayed a dumb officer, man. I've never promoted. So I look at my teams, you know, I've got, I think, roughly 30 something under me now. And I look at these guys and who I'm responsible for, and and I tell them that they're very uniquely because a lot of my team members they make commission off of their total sales, and the rest of the company's growth pattern, they only get paid if the rest of the company grows. Yeah. And I said, guys, this isn't the driving factor for y'all alone. This is for everybody here, and we have the impact for that. And as a leader in that in that space and the people you're over, and not only that, just large revenue streams, right? Those decisions weigh so much more heavily on you than am I gonna breach this door or not? That is, I look back at that and I'm going, man, that is so easy. And so when my CEO comes to me, he's like, dude, what are you wound up about? I'm like, dude, if we don't hit, if we got this, I can't get him. He he's got a kid, you've got this other.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

It's the same problem though. It's a it's it's it's the same problem when you look at it. Like it's you might not have all the answers right now, but you have a problem to solve. And if you have the tools in front of you, like again, maybe on the door breaching side, there's is situations, but you have the tools, you have the know-how. It's just now like, how do I unwind this to go, what is the best solution for this problem? And you're not taking it to somebody else. So you're in the position, again, going back to why I would hire Matt, like, guys a problem solver. And I know like if he's got a problem, he's gonna he can come tell me about it, but he's not just coming to complain about the problem, he's got a solution for it, right? And that's what I need, like, from a business perspective, it's the same thing you're dealing with. Like, okay, what's the problem? Yeah, oh, this is what I'm dealing with. Like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this. Like, that's okay, what's the solution? Like, what give me at least an idea? Like, what do you want to do? Well, because I understand this and understand this, I think this is the best, best play. And then again, giving the your your your your company's, you know, shop is giving you the freedom, like, Brad, just make the best decision that's possible. And if you need support, we're here for you, Matt. Do that. Like, I don't know how that's gonna wind up either, but let's not worry about that. Let's get let's I that seems like the right thing for me. Maybe watch out for this. Don't get hit in the head, the side of the head with that. Like, make that decision and go forth and give it everything you got. And I'll be here again to back you up on the other end because I trust that he's going to do the right thing, right? And I know that he has that loyalty to getting the right thing done and to me. And I again that's the blessing of the and the curse of being the officer and having to go find that again, I think, first in yourself, right? Trusting yourself to make those decisions, but also like surrounding yourself with people that can also do that.

SPEAKER_07 58:54

And the crazy thing too is even though you may hang up the badge and you may not be doing this full time, you will still, I mean, especially if you're a shit magnet like myself, and every one of my chain of commands that are listen to this right now are gonna go, yep, he's right on that. Every one of them, you you still have a chance to save lives and do things, you know. Like I'll tell you a story. Just two weeks ago, on the way to work, one of my employees was killed. And laying right there, 20 feet up in the air on a motorcycle accident. Oh, damn. You know, we're right there, and I I'm looking at him with some of my TAC med background, and I'm like, yeah, this is this is not good. So I call the wife, get the wife on the route to the hospital, and you find yourself going back into work mode, right? And yeah, I'm still reserving and still having to switch myself on, but you still find yourself being an acid. I'm sitting there going, hey, I need blood on scene because there's no way he's throwing PE's on the monitor, like there's no way he's gonna live. You know, are we getting care flight there? And then I step back, and then, you know, when the room, we were in the ER room when I was right there when they pronounced them and stuff, and you know, and then having to give the death notification. And I look back and my CEO asked me, and I'm not toot my horn when I said this, he, you know, he he goes, Brad, why are you so calm? I said, Unfortunately, dude, this is the world I'm used to. This is the easy part. This is this is a world I'm completely comfortable in, unfortunately. And it starts bringing back like going back to the moral injury. You start bringing back some of those stories and stuff. And as I'm sitting there and I'm looking at the team and I'm having to tell my team, hey, you know, Wayne has passed away. He was killed just right outside our our storefront. You know, and and and so you start having those. And so for the officers are like, you get out of this, that doesn't mean you stop being a servant, right? And that doesn't mean that you stop being a service. Mission is the same, 100%, right? And and I almost I almost find this this point being where you almost have to rise to occasion even more, right? And still be the light out there in this dark, dark world and be able to rise to the occasion any moment in time. Because how many people do we hang up the badge and they think they're done? Yeah, why? You don't need to be done. I still expect that if if my family's out and something happens to me, I will wear your fucking skin to protect other people around me. Right. And if it means protecting those around me, we don't lose that. We don't lose that identity, right? And so this whole, hey, we're hanging this up and we're transitioning over to, you know, business or whatever it may be, you're not done. There's still gonna be times, even in your business career, in your pathway, that you're gonna find these points and go, yeah, I need to turn on police mode now. And I th I I applaud the people that do that and can do that, but at the same time, like realizing what those guardrails are, especially mentally and and physically and everything like that. Don't ever lose any of that. Because not only that is that gonna make you the operator that you were, yeah, but now it's gonna make you the better human that you are outside of business or inside of business to still do what you're doing and and exceeds excellence.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

No, you're you're you're you're exactly right. I I've always said I when I leave this profession, I still have to go into something that I'm serving. Like I can't just be the taker. I can't be just taking, taking. I want to serve. I like that's why this association has been so big in my life. Or to me, it's like it's been therapy for me of being able to, you know, you joke around like, oh, people like I just like to invest in other, you know, like-minded folks and and be able to, you know, hey, help you. Hey, how do I connect you and you so y'all can go do bigger and better things and and things like that. And so that that's like my my uh adrenaline rush. And so that that's where my passion is, is to be a servant of this community and other communities that spill over with that. I think that's why like with with with y'all do, uh there's there's passion, there's giving back, there's a a a big why of what you do. You've taken the business model and go, hey man, we're not just gonna be this business model that just sells suppressors. That's what we do, but we're taking our passion to serve the end user is this. And then after the fact, we have to have training, we have to have mental health, we have to have resilience. How do we make you the complete package? Because you know what, you're our customer, but we want to serve you in more ways than just this damn suppressor.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Yeah, even if you're just looking at it from a from a dollars and cents perspective, doesn't that make sense? Yeah, 100%. It's good business. 100%. I think you said it like you're you're selling a suppressor, but you're selling a longtime customer. The the the thing I got told once, but you know, kind of when I started, I got some really great advice, you know, at the beginning of starting my business when I was in that situation, going, uh, okay, I guess I'm gonna have to put my balls on the table and and do the thing that I've been thinking about or whatever. But there's there's a shoe store down the street.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:24

It's uh like a someone's coming towards you to ambush you or something, man.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:27

There's something happening. I don't know, but she's running, so I don't know what's happening right now. Hell yeah, I got another plaque. There we go. It's going in the board rate. Uh by the way, Eric, by the way, Eric, that should say vendor show. Vendor show. Thank you. That's going in the boardroom. I like that. What so what does that say there? That's the range day sponsor, TTPOA 2026. You always do good ones. We got so many nice metal ones. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:56

Yeah, it's Rebecca saying it's a turn turn around and you can get a picture of it.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:00

Remember, you're the fucking new guy. You've been here three weeks, you don't get to take my sign.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:05

Um it looked like there was a mission by somebody. Yeah, I was like, I don't know what's about to happen.

Relationship Driven Business And Trust

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

It's sort of a dumb analogy or story, but the advice was it's like that shoe store down the street that's a mom and popped open shoe store, whatever. They're not trying to sell you the first pair of shoes when you go in there, right? They're trying to sell you your tenth pair of shoes. Yeah, it's the same thing. And how do they doing that? They're taking care of your personal needs and making sure you're you're handled when you come in there so that you're running, you know, two years from now, and when you come in, you're you're picking up those shoes from them because of the experience you got and how they helped you along with the world.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:35

There's a reason most all our customers on the LE side all have our personal cell phones. And and I've had guys that have been in shootings and guys that have been dealing with family and and different things, and they're checking in on you. And and and and granted, I'm not saying that because I want more sales. I just know that if we do business that way, it always works more. More sales will go. In fact, we're looking at you know with sound off. At scale, I can't continue to hand out personal cell phone numbers and continue to bog down all the sales phone lines. But we're gonna have to automate some of that. And I've been really struggling with I'm losing some of that human touch of that, right? Like that's been because that's been my business too. Yeah, it's been a huge thing. And granted, there's tools, AI, and all this stuff, you know. But you know, but there's a world where, okay, so if I'm not gonna be able to do that human touch all the time, right? Then I'm gonna provide value in other areas of the business, right? I'm gonna provide assets to people. I'm gonna be in present when I'm talking with these individuals and they've reached out. I'm gonna have that moment to talk to them and not be too big in my, you know, where bridges to be able to have that conversation to build that relationship. Because at the end of the day, this is all relationship and more so this space. Yeah, LE LE sales is 100% relationship. And if you screw one agency over, if you do one thing, there's a lot of other people selling cans, man. Yeah, 100%, 100%. And it just goes back to just treating everybody with fairness and in what you said, just being a servant. At the end of the day, if I can just I look at like a lot of my sales pipelines that I do, like with my dealer sales teams, like just Serve those guys. Yeah. You're you're investing in their business. Some of these are small mom and pop, you know, gun shops. Just serve them. All you have to do is be there for them, whatever that is, and just serve them. And I promise you, when you do that, we will suck up more business than any of our other competitors. Yeah. Because that's different. Which it shouldn't be, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

That should be the standard. No, you're right. And that's where I look at my what I do in just my own world. I would rather go to the mom and pop restaurant, whatever, because man, there's the way they they treat you, their quality of service, and all that. And then if they are the shit mom and pop, they'll, well, I'm not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

Well, because there's a consequence to that, right? And I think like just in this space and with all the vendors that are here and all the things that are are gone out, you know, you look at the whatever it is, whether it's suppressors or or rifles or whatever else, I think you know, you have these, you have legacy brands out there, right? That have been around a long time and they just assumed that once I get this contract, I got this contract, right? And the contract, the holding on to that contract is really about making the the deal sweet enough to keep them in. But when that deal stuck, when the deal, when it's all about the deal and not about what's really going on with the quality of the product and the service they're getting, you're you're you're seeing it. I mean, you're seeing it here right now. You're you're a testament to that just with what's going on with Silas Shaw. But rifle companies, pistol companies, and whatnot, like some of those legacy brands are not going to be here, and agencies are stopped, they're not buying from them. And it starts with teams, yep, right? Usually, like, well, what are the cool guys using? That's what we want. Why are they using those? And you're seeing that happen, you're seeing that industry-wide. More than ever, people want to know who they're getting their stuff from. Again, you went back to the pronoun piece. First of all, that's all I need to know. That's all I need to know. This conversation is over. For and those are your reasons. And if you don't recognize that that's going to be a reason for your customer, in this case, your your patient or your client, like you are losing right now. And you're starting to see that happen. So, yeah, I mean, even here out on the floor with all the smaller companies that are that are here because they recognize the relationship building value of being at an event like this, it's happening right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:00

And we've made we've made, I mean, I will here's where I will toot my horn, and not my horn, my team's horn and the company's horn. We are shaking this up. And I think you've seen it. We come here in a different position. We come here and make sure everything is impactful to everybody. Every, every every conversation we have, every bit of transaction we have, we're here at a different. And we've made a lot of people nervous. And I'm fine with that. Because if I have you shaking in my boots, I'm doing your boots, I'm doing something right. Yeah. Um, because at the same time, when I hear stuff and feedback from different vendors and everything, and I hear him complaining, I'm like, you're the same motherfucker that's been sitting in the chair on your cell phone every single day. And when those officers were walking up, you didn't get up off your ass to talk to people. Yeah. Right. I want you that's complacency. Yeah. I want to get up and I want you to know that I care for you. And if I have to look, and even if it's two for two seconds and I'm having a conversation very quickly, at least I took that second in my busy moment to have that conversation with you. And I guarantee you're not going to forget that. It's impactful.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

Yeah, it's impactful.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:52

Sorry, I get really fucking passionate about that. We've had this conversation twice today, and one of them came up to me and I was like, Well, it would help if you weren't on your phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

I gotta be honest, like I'm here, I'm not in that in this space, but I do buy products from people that are here, and I won't I won't mention the name of the company, but I've seen them now at multiple events like this. I've had conversations with them, and that exact behavior that you just mentioned, not not for me personally, but what they're doing out there on the floor, is very disappointing. And I like their product a lot, but they have competitors, and when I get when I walk by their booths or whatever, they are they are up and wanting to talk. And it's not about the it's not, I almost said it, it's not about the product. It's about, hey man, how are you doing? Like, how's this going for you? And you know, what are you currently using? And then there's a conversation about what my personal, what what do I need? What do I want? Not the product showcase, and let me tell you about all these SKUs I have and this new thing that we have over here. Like, what's the right fit for you? And how do I help, how do I help you with that? Like, and maybe I'm not the right, the right guy for you. That's fine. I will direct you right to the place that does have the right product for you at the right price or or whatever, whatever it happens to be. Again, that's that's the difference between this and what I kind of see in in a lot of other places. But it it comes down to the relationship building. And 100% agree. You would not be in the position that you're in right now if you had not built those relationships.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:09

And that's not that's not about me. Yep. That's about what I like, dude. I can be replaced tomorrow. There, I guarantee you there's another guy out there, and if my CEO and COO were listening, I'm not saying that we needed to do this, but there's another guy out there that could come in here and continue to grow and do what I'm doing, right? And do the same thing. But the second that that person starts taking for granted the relationship at each thing, it doesn't matter. You will not be successful. You may be successful for a quarter, a couple quarters, you may get that new product that everybody just wants and you're successful, right? But the second that you lose that relationship and you lose that impact at the at the human level, dude, I don't care who you are. We've seen this happen with multi-billion dollar companies, right? The second you start losing touch and relationship with your customers, it's done.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:54

Well, it's the oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:58

I was gonna say that that's in every sales whatever, right? What I've noticed, you law enforcement fellas, y'all are a cynical bunch.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:09

Oh really? Yeah, don't say, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:12

That's sort of a no, no, so I think it it's more so in this world, relationships matter more than even just on the outside. They matter in everything, but in this one, y'all are such a tight community that if one don't use that, that they're trash, man. Or maybe the equipment's good, but they're not gonna fucking support.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:35

No, you hit the nail on the head with one of our new employees that's here. I was having the conversation for him. I said he was like, Well, what do I need to know? And I was like, Look, I'm gonna tell you one thing. If we do one thing wrong, if we have one misstep that brings ill repute on us, or we say the wrong thing, or we act a certain way, or we get belligerent drunk, and I like to have a good time. I mean, you see, my I got a stripper squirrel in my hood, okay? I like to have fun. Is that what's all right? Yes, yeah, it's Becky. But she's got a name, she does have a name. She sits on my desk and she will be back there on Monday where we're ready to get home. But if you do anything to affect the relationship here, that one, that one piece, it's dude, it is like, dude, and it is in this space, you're right. It is tenfold and it's quick and it's fast. It's very unforgiving. Yes, it is. And again, like we can all make mistakes, but as long as you're treating everybody with respect and you're truthful and you're honest and you have an integrity in that. Dude, you I've had, I don't know how many times we had a huge contract out in West Texas. I completely screwed up on the pricing and the order went on the onset of this. I just owned it. And I was like, dude, I screwed up. This is wrong. I'm willing to take the hit there. That opened the door for three other huge contracts. I didn't have to do that. I could have been like, yeah, man, that's what I quoted you on. I could have completely lied. I could have been, you know, and done what multiple other companies have done in this space and gotten bad space, you know, bad, but that alone, having that and having that relationship with honesty and integrity, it opens the door, dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:57

Well, I th I think going back to we're we're we we were talking about the business side and we're we're talking about how if you're invested in the law enforcement, how that that can translate into the business side. And it's the same thing with you know, Matt, when you get complacent as a team, or you get like, well, we're this or we're that, we don't need to do this, or we don't what happens? Yeah, the team gets fucked over. Like you can have a great culture and then all of a sudden you you let things slip. You're like, eh, we do we really need to do this, or do we do or or you're like a team, well, well, this is this is what we've always done, and uh we're gonna shy away from this because this is a whatever. Like, there's just things that that how important culture is, or how important just I don't want to just stay at the level. Like, I'm always wanting to get better, get better. And going back to the ownership, like you said, ownership as a team leader, as someone who's influential on influential on a team. If you don't take ownership and you're like, yep, I fucked that one up, and guess what? I I own that. That builds equity with other people. But when you're like, ah, you know what? I I really well let me tell you the reason why. Well, what you didn't know, what happens? You know, the the guys are like, well, guess what? I mean, he fucking preaches this, but now he doesn't, you know, act like that. So it it is neat to see whatever you're doing. You're you're in a team environment, whether it's SWAT team, gang, whatever the thing is, the whole thing works the same. It's just you're selling this product for for this price. We're selling a product of serving the public, serving our fellow officers. And it there's just different outcomes as far as transactions, but how it gets there is all the same. And that's where and I've now seen that, how that works in law enforcement and how it works in the the real world outside of because law enforcement it's blue welfare for the most part. You can you can do nothing as long as you don't do that one thing that would get you fired, and usually that one thing to get you fired is a lot of times the action of doing the places. But if you just set back and you don't do anything that brings light or it you can be on blue welfare your whole career and get the free this and the half-off this and the and all that, and there's no there's no thin, the the risk and all that.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:19

So and I go back to this, and I will say this that a lot of this of what we're talking about is just officers, individuals, business owners just knowing what their why is. Yeah, and identifying what that is. And I think if you really get to the bottom of that, you identify the your why, it's really gonna set that runway, set you up for success down the road.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:37

Look at that beautiful man, Zach right now. Zach Jones. Man, Zach, what's up, man? Beautiful man right there. Look at that. Look at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

That's funny. He's a good dude. Yeah, he is. That question got asked to me last year, actually, when I when uh Brandon and Matt had me on with Brian Williams, and you know, we were talking about a lot of things, and Brian actually asked me point blank, he's like, Well, what what advice would you give you an officer? I'm like, I don't know if I'm the right guy to answer that. But the the answer was I think you need to examine your why, yeah, in terms of why why you you started doing this in the first place, and is does that compass still look the same? Yeah, and how attached to that are you?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:11

I think uh the warriors refuge is good for that, honestly, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

I think it provides a course correction. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. A realignment, yes, recalibration.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:22

Well, going back to what we were just talking about. So Zach with Z Bar just walks by, you know, Zach, I know Zach, you know Zach, and what did we all say? He's a good dude, he's a good guy. Like we've had conversations before, like earlier this today, and Zach was involved. And why do I want to do business with Zach? He's a good guy. If Zach's whatever gets messed up on the department, guess who's eating that? Zach is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:46

And to expand on that, yeah, I could save a lot of money going outside of Zach. Yeah. But I choose to go to Zach and I choose to send agencies to Zach because, first off, he's he's very affordable. Um, but you get what I'm getting at, right? I can go direct to manufacturers and kind of save a lot of money on the bottom line, right? I don't want to. Yeah. Because I'm they're not gonna be treated the same. The the value of that relationship's not gonna be the same, right? And so people like Zach are the epitome of what we're talking about of like who we want to surround ourselves in this space. Uh, I mean, there's so many night vision companies here, and there's so many good ones, but I choose to align with Zach because I know what he stands for. I know, I know his heart, I know the kind of person he is, and I know the type of relationship he's gonna have with their customer base.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:26

Yeah. I sit on the equipment committee, and so you know, that part of that is testing, evaluating, and seeing what we need and bringing things in. And uh, Zach's one of the first guys I call just to get an idea of like, hey, what is this? What is that? And I trust his opinion and honest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:42

And there's a reason Zach just called me for you all suppressors on the SWAT team. You know, I was like, cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:47

I was like, hey, I said we're there for you, we'll support you whatever which way it is. And and granted, he doesn't have to do that. He can save money going to Shorefire.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:54

And again, I'm not tooting our horn, but it's just really how you take care of people. Yeah. And he knows my heart for you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:00

And and and all that just comes full circle.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:02

Well, and it's good because if anything ever comes up, I know I can get on the phone, I can call him, have any of this done because we do we did our helmets with him. And so, yeah, yeah, all this stuff. It matters. It does. When we do, we do large purchases, you know, we're the larger team, we see everybody. Same thing with our rifles. You know, we were out there and we were looking around. They're like, hey, talk to these teams that currently have these. We talk to them, they're all like, they are the best that we ever dealt with as far as support and do all this. And just everybody kept saying the same thing. Like, man, there's something to this. Yeah. And now we've been with them for years. Same thing. So you got a choice. Yeah. But you that there is a shortage in the ones that are well worth it. There's a difference there. And uh, you know, you choose wisely kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:50

So that's actually the easiest thing to sell in my mind. Like that with regard to that. Like, this is worth it. Why? It's free. It well, yeah. It that it if that costs you nothing. It costs you nothing, right? Yeah. Then if all we're talking about is price at the end of the day, like we'll work this out. But to your point, like this might cost me a little bit more money, but it's not gonna give me what I need when something goes wrong with it, or when I have a problem, or when this guy has a you know, I need some advice on something, or we need to make a change, or whatever else. Like that, that is free, free to give, like without expectation, right? And to your point, like if that's the way you're handling your business, the numbers piece of this almost works out every time. Not every time, but it works out the majority of the.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:29

I have yet to have one where I didn't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:31

Again, it's compound interest, man. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:35

Well, that's good. Well, you all have anything

How To Use R3 And AWA Resources

SPEAKER_04 1:19:37

else? That's that's what was funny. So if you're a member of the association and you want to get uh hooked up with the R3 stuff, what does that look like? How do they go about that?

SPEAKER_06 1:19:46

Those kind of things. Yeah, you guys have obviously y'all have got your own website, and so y'all y'all have a page set up for resilience. Gdpoa.org. And uh you can go on there or you can go on r3program.org resources. Um, but again, it's already on your website. Yeah, you can go to the American Warrior Association, sign up for those. So the Warriors Refuge, even agencies, it's entirely free. Flights covered, lodgings covered. Wait, how much? How much free free ninety nine? It's crazy, man. It's crazy. And so check it out, AWA. So it's awahusa.org or dash, I don't know if if people know that, but and then the R3 side, if you're interested in it, you can find out more on TTPOA's website. Again, it's an agency partnership. So we go in there, we build up the framework, uh, we work with a team, the wellness team. One thing we didn't get to talk about is the system itself for law enforcement culture is broken, which it's obvious that it's broken, but the reason why it's broken is it's all set up to be reactive. Everything for R3 is proactive, right? And that's that's not just a mental. Again, we bring in financial people, so we have financial partnerships, we have physical partnerships with companies that do physical fitness stuff. Yeah, we've got the counselors, we've got the retreats and the trips, and it's all free. So I think people are dumb if they don't take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:15

That's why we're gonna keep supporting you, my friend.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:17

Cops love free too.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:18

Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:19

Yeah, we love some free free.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:20

Oh my gosh. Well, and and people capitalize on that too, and they take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:25

Yeah, so well, and that that's that's one of my things. I'm like when I've partnered with uh companies to say, hey, I want a partnership with you to you know pay for two spots to whatever class, my whole discussion was I'm not one of those cops that just, hey, what do you got for free for me? Give me the free shit. I'm like, yes, I want you to give me money so I can pay for these two spots. And at the end of the day, I want you to come out and present whatever product you have. And after this is said and done, let's have a conversation. If you don't like what service you got, we will uh accommodate you and and fix this because I'm not just begging you to give me shit and then piss off with you later because I got something free. I mean I I see it out here all the time. Hey man, what do you got free? I'm like, motherfucker, like don't worry about what I got free. Like just I mean, you see, I mean, free for a reason. Y'all have some badass swag, so you get innovative with all that shit, and I'm coming over like, I really like that, but I like I like free stuff too. But I'm also like, man, I understand there's there's there's pros and cons and all that.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:33

So I don't know where I got off of that with but anyway. I was gonna say it's weird, right? This obviously my first TTPOA. I'm walking every aisle and I'm like, man, there is so much free swag out here. Yeah, and free beer. Yeah, it's like trip, grab, grab, grab, grab, grab, right? Everybody's wanting the swag. Yeah. But what about a free trip to get away and decompress Colorado? We're selling. You're doing that all day long. And nobody's buying. Yeah, right. And so that's why we're extremely grateful to be partner with both of your organizations, right? Because you guys are tip of the spear and y'all are out there, and by you all have experienced this. I know you have, right? Leaders will tell you, hey, we've got this resource for you. You guys are saying, we've got this resource for us. Yeah, and I've used it. Yeah, yeah. That's where culture starts to change.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:31

Yeah, I like it. I like it. You got anything else to say?

SPEAKER_07 1:23:35

No, I thank y'all for being here. I think for the week, I've had a blast. I'm ready to get home. I went from NRA to this. My kidneys are shot. I'm ready to get home to the family and hang out. But I dude, I seriously appreciate it. I'm excited to see both y'all's pathways. I love uh to me that there's nothing more than seeing the people that I love that you know are growing and and being successful, and and I'm learning from y'all. And so I I the the pathways and everything y'all've y'all have put forward, I greatly appreciate it. It means a lot to me. I mean, I'm really excited for the years to come and the partnerships and everything that we're doing. And for y'all, I mean the officers' lives were changing. And yeah, man, I just thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:07

So well, thank y'all. Matt, you got anything to end with this uh appreciate everything you do? Yeah, thanks for your service. Well, this is wraps up the uh 2026 TTPOA conference for the podcast

Wrap Up And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_04 1:24:18

side of it. Like I said, we still got a banquet tonight and a lot of shit to give away and training and all that fun stuff. So I know my son showed up and I haven't seen, I totally forgot about him last time.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

He dropped off some pants over there. He walked in the door with a stack of stuff. I was like, hey, what size are those? I go, where'd that come from? He goes, I don't know. I was just told to put it here.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:39

Because he's not wearing any pants right now. So that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:42

Apple doesn't fall too far in the too. So yeah, I forgot you know, I forgot uh you know my son and so yeah, I'm like, okay, I've got to find out where he's at. He I called him last night. He's like, man, I'm in downtown uh Round Rock, and this girl I met, she texted me. I was like, nah, you don't need me then son. We're good. So all right, well, that wraps it up, and y'all train hard, fellas. Stay safe.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

You got the Texas talking, bear cat rolling, warrant serving, trigger pressing, door slamming, bad guy catching, son of a gun podcast, woo!