198. Five Stages Of Prayer

What if the pace you live at is starving the person you’re becoming? We explore why a culture of acceleration cannot produce a deep soul, and how real spiritual formation requires a slower, steadier path. Using a simple visual of four concentric circles, we show why the inner life—personal growth, healing, and spirituality—sets the ceiling for everything public and visible. When the outer expands faster than the core can sustain, life forms sinkholes. The antidote isn’t more polish or better systems; it’s a return to presence.

Together we walk through five stages of prayer that unfold across a lifetime. Verbalization honors the dignity of your voice and the beauty of asking. Reflection shifts the question from “Do this” to “What are you already doing?” and trains your attention through daily examen. Listening often arrives through a dark night, where feelings fade and obedience deepens around the still, small voice. Watching loosens our grip on outcomes as we keep people and plans on the altar and let God move. Being, inspired by Brother Lawrence, becomes a quiet, continual awareness of God in ordinary moments—no performance, just presence.

Along the way, we name the risks of leading from the outer rings and the quiet practices that strengthen the center: unhurried Scripture, honest confession, patient silence, and gratitude in the everyday. We challenge the myth that growth must be fast, and we pray for a pace that your soul can carry. If you’ve been measuring success by visibility, numbers, or timelines, this conversation invites a reset toward depth, sustainability, and joy with God.

My hope is that this podcast helps grow your faith and equips you to accomplish your dreams and goals!

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Chapters

• 0:07 Why Speed Won’t Form Your Soul
• 2:31 Circles Of Life And Ministry
• 9:34 Stage One: Verbalization
• 12:18 Stage Two: Reflection
• 20:58 Stage Three: Listening
• 24:43 Stage Four: Watching
• 26:46 Stage Five: Being
• 29:19 Grow Inside Before You Grow Outside
• 33:08 Prayer And Closing Blessing
• 34:16 Subscribe And Share

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:07

Welcome to another episode of the podcast. Today I'm going to be sharing a teaching that I recently did at our staff chapel. My hope is that this encourages you and that your love for God's word keepens. Well, I think you might like this. It's been um on my mind and it's shaping me. And so a quick pause from Philippians. Don't worry, we'll be back. We're coming back. We will not leave Philippians. We've come too far to quit now. Um, but I I think this will bless you, hopefully, maybe. Um, you're good. Thank you so much. Thanks, Sam. Um, okay, I want to talk to you about um this is again, like I said, something that's kind of been on my mind and um something I came across, and then I've just been kind of digging into it deeper and it's speaking to me. So hopefully it speaks to you too. Um, but just thinking about our culture, society, and how fast everything is. Like we are an instant society. In fact, I will say when I go to buy something, like if I can't do Apple Pay, the likelihood of me buying it goes down drastically. Because if I have to get up and get my wallet, I really have to evaluate if I like it that much. Is anybody else honest in the house? Okay, great. And then, but if it's Apple Pay, I just like black out. And then the next thing I know, Brian's like, where did this come from? What did you order? I'm like, I ordered nothing. I don't know what you're talking about. And then I open it, I'm like, oh yeah, the other night at 3 a.m. when I was up, I bought that. And but then the other thing is, is I want it like instantly. And so sometimes whenever you go for shipping on something and it's like it'll arrive in like five to seven days, you're like, I don't, I need it tomorrow. I don't want it in five to seven days, or then sometimes it's like 10 to 15 days. I'm like, this is fake, this is stupid because no real business has this. And I've just been thinking about this, and one of my professors said this statement, and it's kind of stuck with me. And he said this as our culture accelerates, the formation of our soul will not accelerate. As our culture accelerates, the formation of our soul will not accelerate. There was this couple they went through um fast track, and they were in our community group. Brian and I did a group together, and they stayed behind after and they were just crying. And they were like, God bless you. And they were like, I'm just frustrated, you know. We went, we we started coming to the church this many, you know, months ago, and we did the fast track, and now we're in the group, and like we still have these things happening in our life. Like, where is God? And I'm like, like, fast track doesn't mean fast growth. And I think for all of us, we are trying to grow spiritually so fast, and we almost are frustrated ourselves. We're not like celebrating where we're at because we're so frustrated where we're not. Does this make sense? And and when he said that, I was like, it's so true. Like as culture accelerates, the formation of my soul is not going to accelerate. And in fact, anything that's growing fast, somebody that appears to be growing fast, I'm actually suspicious. Because there's a lot of false growth. And we can look really spiritual, but inside be hollow. And then on the flip end of that, whenever somebody actually matures, and we're gonna talk about five stages of prayer, and when they actually hit all five stages at a young age, they usually die young. So actually, like as we're gonna go through these five stages, don't be discouraged if you're in phase one. Actually be like, okay, good, I'm probably gonna live a long life. Because somebody that God's gonna use really quickly, you look at um Saint John of the Cross, you look at Jesus, you look at a lot of the saints that died early, Justin the Martyr. They died young, they hit all five stages really young. But the old saints, Mother Teresa, different ones that it took them a long time to hit stage five. A long time. They had a whole life. But when God accelerates somebody really, really fast, it's probably because they're gonna die early. They've got to get done what he put them on this purpose earth to do. So don't be like discouraged as we're talking about these five stages. Actually be encouraged. I'm gonna live a long life. Are y'all good? I'm so good at being depressing. Okay. So I want you to think about this. Okay. Think about these circles. The innermost circle is the inner life. This is your inner spiritual life. This is the outer life. The second circle is your outer life. The third circle is the inner ministry life. And the furthest circle is the outer ministry life. What everybody sees is this right here. The outer, this everybody sees the service, everybody sees the growth, everybody sees that, but what nobody sees is this inside thing. Now, the inside inner life of the person, and I will just say, my growth is not your growth, your growth is your growth. The inner life of the person, nobody sees, but everything that's going to happen outside of this inner circle is predicated upon what's happening on the deepest core level. You will never grow beyond this inner life of what's happening in the deepest part of us. And inside of this, there's our personal growth, personal healing. So personal growth. Personal healing. Make sure I get this right. Personal growth, personal healing, and personal spirituality. So Jesus, he calls, he calls his disciples. Every single one, it's a different story. Every single one has the same two words. Follow me. And somewhere in the journey of doing the thing, we became so obsessed with the outer ministry, what everybody sees. The song set lists, the team growth, the chairs, the the it's the accessories, right? It's everything everybody sees. But we start neglecting the first part, which is follow me. And it's in the follow me that happens the second part, which is the inner, the inner, the inner life. Then we go to the outer life of what's seen to the person, right? And the outer life looks kind of like for Peter, it starts out, he says, follow me, and I'll make you a fisher of men. Fast forward to the end of John, John chapter 21. He says, Peter, do you love me? In other words, are you still following me? Oh, you want to follow me? Tend my sheep. Assignment looks different. Things shift, things change. Are you okay with things shifting and changing? Because the assignment's still the same. The inner life is still the same. Follow me. And a lot of us we're so focused on these outer rings, and we fall apart when something changes externally because our inner core isn't solid. And so in the inner core, this is where my spirit, my personal growth. You never grow beyond like your time in the word. You never grow beyond your time in prayer. You never, and I'll just say, if you're doing ministry and you're not spending time in the word and you're not spending time in prayer, please just go get a job at Chick-fil-A. Like, please, because the wheels are gonna fall off this bus really quick. Like you're you're just you're performance Christian, and we don't need that. Like we really don't. And and in this, the inner life is where God begins to heal things. Um, I I read a thing not too long back, and I think it's true that our childhood wounds are the first to arrive in our life and they're the last thing to heal. And I'll say that as these circles grow bigger, things that you thought were healed inside of here get to get rehealed again. Like you thought they were healed, but like you get to go back around that again. How many counseling sessions I've had around the same childhood trauma? But every season it brings up a new level of it that God's like ready to heal again. And I know that as the circle's growing bigger, I have to grow bigger in here. My core has to be strengthened. I have to go to a deeper place. And so for us, as we are like going on this journey together, and I will just ask you like, how much time are you spending more time focusing and measuring your success by the outer rings of what everybody sees, or more time on, God, I'm following you. I'm following you, I'm listening to your voice, I'm doing what you're asking me to do because don't get messed up. Yes, we function by systems, but more of what we do is supernatural than a system. And if we're allowing the system to do the heavy lifting, we are just a corporation. We're no longer a spiritual being. And the church is a spiritual being first and foremost. The structure helps us move, but the spirit gives us life. And if we are leaders that are leading without the first, the call of follow me, then we're missing this whole thing. So five stages of prayer. You good? So think of it like this like they're on a timeline here. And basically, here you die. Okay, like when you when you hit the final stage, you're probably about to die. All right. So everybody feel good so far. All right. So very first stage of prayer is verbalization. Verbalization. So this is where we learn that we get this in this is that we every person begins their prayer life in this phase. We we, in fact, even Jesus, whenever the disciples ask him, Lord, teach us how to pray, he says, When you pray, say this. And he goes through six different things: acknowledging the Lord's character, his deity, um, talking about his kingdom will to come, asking for daily provision, seeking forgiveness for sin, requesting a protection from temptation, and asking for deliverance from evil. Um, really sad thing in Matthew chapter, I think that's Matthew six, isn't it? Matthew six, yes, I'm right. Matthew six, it says, at the end of the Lord's prayer, for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. That isn't on any of the original scrolls. It was added by the early church, but it's sweet. Isn't that sweet? But it is biblical because we see it in other places, but it actually Jesus didn't say that. Um, but they added it because they use that prayer so much in church liturgy that they're like, oh, we need to have it be like, amen, right here.

unknown: 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:10

Anyways, just a little fun fact there. A little fun ditty for you. Um early church fathers writing, copying the monks. We're like, we should add this in. This seems good. Um, but verbalization, this is where we get the dignity of human, um of our human voice. Like we we learn that God cares, the human participation, that we learn that God is uh keenly aware of what we're saying, that God cares about what we have to say. And so when you start out praying, when any person starts out praying, they are doing all the talking in the prayer. Like they're they come to God, their prayer time looks like you speak from the beginning to the end. You're like, good morning, Jesus. Like today I ask you, you know, that you are great, you're good, and God, I thank you for forgiving my sins, and like you're feeling the whole time. And in this time, in verbalization, this stage, we're learning that we're seeing very quickly that what we're asking for, we start to see changes and shifts in the environment around us. We start to see things start happening, we start to see miracles in this phase. And that's a really great, that's a really great thing, which empowers us to do what? Go back and pray again. And so we get excited in this phase. This phase, we start to have a relationship with God, but we're doing all the talking. So we're the one, but at the same point, God's like, great, like you are learning human participation. We also learn the dignity of vulnerability. So in this, we begin to learn. So that there's like three phases, right? So there's human participation. So what I say matters. Like God wants me to talk to him, but then vulnerability, that I can come and talk to God about anything. Like this is the second part of this phase. And we start to realize that God, God wants to hear about our day. God wants you to talk to him about, man, I'm I'm really sad about this. Like this, this really bothers me. And you start talking to the Lord about it. Like we start being vulnerable with the Lord. Like, I don't, I'm really struggling with this area of my life, God, and you're bringing these things to him. This is really beautiful. This is a great time. Like, just think about any true relationship is gonna have a measure of vulnerability to it. Like, in fact, I will say, I know how close somebody is to you by how vulnerable you are with him, right? And so it's in this phase that we start learning to be vulnerable with God. We also learn disclosure. Disclosure. And so I'm starting to, in my vulnerability, I'm not just sharing my feelings, but I'm starting to disclose to God not just what's currently happening, but everything from my past. Like, God, these things are really difficult. Like I'm feeling these things like I don't understand. Like I'm starting to be vulnerable about where I'm at, but I'm disclosing to him all these things from my past, these things that I don't understand. I'm bringing to him questions. I'm wrestling with him in this phase. Is this good? And so this is a good needed form, but it is it is like stage one, verbalization. Then somewhere along the journey, we move into stage two. And this is reflection. Reflection. And in the reflection phase is when I start asking God, what are you already doing? What are you already doing? So previously I'm coming to God asking him to do. Now I'm saying, what are you already doing? Like I'm starting to open my eyes, and I'm not saying, I'm not coming with this presupposition that unless I speak, you're not moving. Now I'm saying, you're already moving. God, you're already doing things, you're already present. Show me what you're already doing. And in this, in this um phase, I'll say we begin to move into the most effective form of evangelism. So the least effective form of evangelism is looking at the world that's far from God and going, you don't know God, God's not doing anything in your life. Let me show you a way to find God. Jesus never operated that way. He operated from the place of what was already happening in their life, and then pointed them to the solution for something greater. The woman coming to the well, I have water you know not of. Does this make sense? Like he's pointing him to what, like you're you're already doing something, like there's a hunger inside of you for something. Let me point you towards the solution, the greater source, which is Christ. So in this phase, we move into this uh this perspective, like we shift and we start reflecting on God, what are you already doing? In this, um, which is really cool because this is Laura, she's gonna be here with you guys this weekend. She's great, my counselor, I love her. And um, in this, we ask the the question, where did I experience God's love today? Then I start to also be um keenly aware of where was I distant from God today. In this in this reflection piece, this is actually from Ignatius of Loyola. Um, he came up with this practice, and this is where I begin to find myself um leaning into God. So I'm I'm noticing a sunset and I'm experiencing God's love. I'm slowing down and I'm noticing a room and I'm allowing my heart to fill with gratitude that I'm not just in a room where there's laughter, but I'm experiencing God's love. I'm reflecting. It's outside of now a prayer closet. It's in me as I'm walking through. Uh, Brian and I, we were we were at the state fair on Monday, and I had just this overwhelming feeling of like God's smile. And oh, praise God. Yes. Amen. Let's go. Woo. And uh I was walking through the state fair and all of a sudden I told Brian, I was like, I just want to cry right now. Like, I just feel God's love like so strong. But on the flip end of that, whenever I'm walking in judgment or unforgiveness, I immediately, the more you begin to walk in reflection, you notice I'm distant from you right now. Like I'm distant. I'm like sitting in judgment. I'm sitting in a seat of criticism, I'm sitting in a seat of unforgiveness. And you start to like your mind is able to come back to okay, Lord, I repent, I'm back with you. Like it's like it's like you're the smallest little, you're able to come right back in. Are we doing good? All right, the next is listening. Listening. This is stage three. And this one's kind of sad. So this phase um is only uh St. John of the Cross talks about this, and you are there's two levels to this, and you don't get to do this phase without this, and you're gonna have to go through a dark night of the soul. Dark night of the soul, and then he also calls it dark night of the senses, and in the dark night of the senses, you basically learn that you can't trust your feelings anymore. This is where I no longer I no longer get done preaching and think I did good, so I'm good. I'm obedient and I feel nothing. I pray and I feel nothing. I believe God for a miracle, and I don't have this charge in my spirit like God's about to do something so crazy. Like, I'm just following because I'm listening to his voice, and it's no longer emotive. And you're gonna go through a dark night of the soul. Typically, it's through an extreme loss, disappointment, heartache, where all your frameworks of everything you thought you knew about God is gonna completely fall apart. You do not get this phase without it. That sucks. But it's true. And it's in this phase that we learn I just have to listen to his voice. I can no longer trust what I'm seeing, I can no longer trust what I'm experiencing, I can no longer trust what I'm feeling. I have to go on what he's saying, and so I'm listening, not for the wind and the fire and the craziness, like those things are really cool, but anybody can follow that. But it's the still small voice. In this phase, I'm not doing really any talking anymore. Like I'm coming into the presence of God. I pray some, I like some of my prayer time is vocal, most of it is just still. And I'll go deeper with you that even if you're talking about like your inner life, like where you're at, how your inner soul is doing, if the more noise you have to have in your environment, it's because your soul isn't healthy. The more healthy your soul is, the more okay you are with quiet. So if you're like, have to have a podcast going all the time, you have to have music going all the time. I call it like air pollution, like constantly. Like there's always something. Like you're in the car and it's like, quick, I gotta turn on music as fast as I can, or I gotta have the audiobook on like 5.0, like as and he's like, and you're like, I'm used to it, I'm used to it. I'm like, okay, but that's not healthy. Like, slow down. And in this phase, we just learn to just start listening to the Lord. We speak, we spend time speaking, but most of it is spent um just listening to God. The next phase is stage four. And this is watching. Think about Jesus, he's about to go to the cross, and he takes the disciples with him to the garden. He just wants them to watch him pray. He says, Stay up and keep watch. Their role was to watch him intercede, watch him mediate. And in this phase of our prayer journey, we spend more time just keeping things on the altar and watching to see what God does. We're no longer coming with our own agenda. We're no longer coming with our own motive of what the outcome of like, I need God to do this. And I had a girl one time. Well, if I'm not married by the time I'm 30 and I have this, this, and this, and like, it's just there's not even a point of it. And I'm like, yeah, well, God's not gonna bless that. Like, he's really not worried about your timeline. Like, so not worried about it at all. Like, he's not moved by it, not even an iota, actually. Like he's just looking at you and he's like, really? And but in this phase, we just keep things on the altar and we watch to see what God does. We just we put our family on the altar. It's outside of us, it's not part of us. We put the marriage on the altar, we put the team on the altar. God, they're yours, they're not mine. My job is to watch you intercede, to watch you move. I'm no longer, because in here, verbalization, I'm in charge of everything. It has this false sense of control of like, if I don't pray for it, it's not gonna happen. I've got to speak it, I've got to declare it, I gotta proclaim it. And in this phase, I'm just watching. I'm just a spectator. I'm seeing the things happen and seeing what God does. The fifth stage, right before you die. Not everybody hits it before they die, but is being. Being. And this is the phase in the stage of prayer where we're just with God all the time. This is Brother Lawrence, his book, Practicing the Presence. I feel like I talk about it all the time. If you haven't read it, you need to read it. Um, it's fantastic. 10 out of 10. He's amazing. Brother Lawrence, uh, practicing the presence. I think every person should read it at some point in their life. Um, Brother Lawrence lived this being. And basically, he he wanted his life where he never went more than a minute without being aware of God's presence. And so it's his journal entries. And he'll be like, Lord, today, as I was peeling potatoes, my mind drifted from you, and I didn't think about you for a moment. I repent. Maybe I always sense your presence near me. Today, as I was sweeping the floors, and because he's a monk and he's just going through his daily tasks, and it's just about how his mind got to where it was like constantly aware of the presence of God, that every moment of every day, God, I'm looking for you in everything. And in this phase, think of it like an old couple that's just sitting there on the porch and they don't have to say anything to each other because they've already said it all. And it's just the presence of being with them that's enough. And it's it's in this phase, it's like literally Adam and Eve walking with God in the cool of the day, not walking to a destination, doesn't tell us anything about the conversation. It doesn't tell us about the reason. It was just being together was enough. It's not, I'm coming to petition, I'm coming because I need this done. No, I just I want to be with you. And if you're in the valley, I'm in the valley. If you're on the mountaintop, I'm on the mountaintop. And so, in this, I think for me, as I've been reflecting on this, I've just been thinking about how, like, A, I've been um reflecting on where I am at in the stages. Have you already kind of identified where you're at? Like, okay, I know where I'm at, but also encouraging you that we're all gonna progressively grow as we go in our journey. And this, like, let's say that you get saved at like 10. And then let's say you die at 80. This is an 80-year journey to become this. And again, as our culture accelerates, this formation of your soul will not accelerate. You're gonna slowly go through each of these, but the goal is maybe you're on step one of verbalization. That's great. And in time, you'll notice that all of a sudden now you're starting to be vulnerable with the Lord. All of a sudden now you're beginning to disclose to him, you're opening up other parts of your life to him. And as you continue to grow, God does something in here. But I'll just say to you be less concerned what's happening out here. Healthy things just grow. An orange.

SPEAKER_00: 30:00

Tree doesn't wake up in the morning, it's like, oh, I need to produce oranges today, or else. And it's not going, oh, the tree next to me has got 50, and I've only got 10, and what's wrong with me? And you get it together.

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

No, he's just growing. He's just growing. And you don't grow without the presence of God. And maybe we're more focused and we're measuring our worth by this. And maybe we should be more concerned here. Brian and I's prayer, since word go, has been God, don't let the church grow faster than what we grow here. Don't let the church grow faster than our staff grows here. And so we're growing. I mean, like Account of Mills, we've grown 37% since January, which is insane. But I've been asking myself, am I internally growing at the rate that we're externally growing? Because if we don't, we'll concave on ourselves. You know how they have those like crazy sinkholes that will happen all over? Like these beautiful cities, and then all of a sudden one day it just gives out. Why? Because at some point the outer became greater than what was under the surface. And what sustains our life is his presence. And if we're growing so fast that we don't have time with him, we're doing it wrong. And if we're growing so fast we don't have time for the secret place, we're doing it wrong. I'll end on this Madison Fowler, I love her. She's really great. She's um one of our dream team people here in Cato. And I was talking to her and she's like, you know, one of those ultra healthy people that they eat everything healthy. She has a 150-year-old SCOBY that she grows her sourdough off of. It's like 150 years old. It was like her great-great-grandmothers, like they bequeath the next generation the SCOBY. I'm like, it's crazy. And she they never eat out. And I was like, how do you do that? How do you never eat out? And she goes, just think about it. If you're so busy that you can't make a meal for yourself, isn't it time to reevaluate what you're doing? And I was like, honestly, she's not far off. If you're so busy doing the work of the ministry that you don't have time for the one who sustains the ministry, I think something's off. If you can't tell me the last time you encountered the presence of God outside of chapel, or you having time set aside during your work hours or a conference that you went to for the church, I'm talking about you and Jesus on your own. We might need to reevaluate. Come on, we might need to shift. We might need to change. Because this, we're never going to grow bigger out here than what we can sustain in here. Um, Jesus, we just thank you so much for who you are. Uh Lord, I thank you that all of us recognize where we're at. And Father, I thank you that you're leading us all to a place of being where it's just being with you, it's enough. It's enough. So, Father, I thank you that no matter where we're at, Lord, let us be comfortable in our growth. Let us be comfortable where you have us and that you're growing us from the inside out. Lord, don't give us more than what we can steward. Don't give us more than what we can handle. God, I thank you that you are um recalibrating our souls. Recalibrating our souls, Lord. Refine our palate, God. Anything where we've been um drinking waters that's not living waters, God, we just repent right now. And Father, I thank you that we hunger and we thirst for the secret place. We hunger and we thirst for time with you. Father, we just thank you for all that you're doing in us. And God, may what you're doing in us flow through us. Jesus' name. Amen. I love you guys. Have a great day. Thanks so much for hanging out here on my podcast. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button if you haven't done so already, so you never miss out on anything here on my podcast. Also, one of the best ways for us to begin to reach other people is by you sharing. So if you can do me a favor and share this podcast with a friend, family member, or maybe on your social media, help us get the word out so we can help others.