Summary: Embark on a captivating journey in our podcast episode, "Death to Life," where we unravel the incredible tale of Eddie's redemption. Amidst the universal struggles of guilt and shame, Eddie's narrative becomes a remarkable testament to the liberating embrace of God's love and the gospel. From grappling with infidelity's aftermath to understanding the vital role of patience in healing, Eddie's experience sheds light on the transformative power of faith. Through our exploration, you'll unearth the profound strength and joy that a relationship with God can offer even in the darkest moments. Eddie's journey, from a source of hope for Jaela to his unyielding optimism during arrest and adversity, will inspire you. Together, we delve into the impact of online judgments on personal growth and Eddie's unwavering faith. Join us to glean insights on healing from trauma, breaking free from societal pressures, and basking in the magnificence of divine love. Prepare to witness an extraordinary voyage of healing, forgiveness, and astonishing transformation that will undoubtedly resonate with your own path.
View more resources on our website!
0:00 - From Shame to Freedom
12:29 - Dealing With Guilt, Shame, and Expectations
16:52 - Finding Joy and Transformation After Betrayal
22:37 - Finding Freedom and Healing in Marriage
28:59 - The Upside Down Kingdom
35:07 - Recovery and Healing After Trauma
49:16 - Forgiveness and Reconciliation
1:01:29 - Arrest, Peace, and Faith in Jail
1:17:23 - Online Comments and Personal Transformation
1:23:36 - Navigating the Consequences of Infidelity
1:38:51 - Transformation and Healing in Marriage
Keywords: Redemption, Transformation, God's Love, Healing, Forgiveness, Faith, Overcoming Adversity, Personal Growth, Spiritual Journey, Liberation
Find Dusty Boys at https://www.lovereality.org/podcasts then cancel them!
Summary: Embark on a captivating journey in our podcast episode, "Death to Life," where we unravel the incredible tale of Eddie's redemption. Amidst the universal struggles of guilt and shame, Eddie's narrative becomes a remarkable testament to the liberating embrace of God's love and the gospel. From grappling with infidelity's aftermath to understanding the vital role of patience in healing, Eddie's experience sheds light on the transformative power of faith. Through our exploration, you'll unearth the profound strength and joy that a relationship with God can offer even in the darkest moments. Eddie's journey, from a source of hope for Jaela to his unyielding optimism during arrest and adversity, will inspire you. Together, we delve into the impact of online judgments on personal growth and Eddie's unwavering faith. Join us to glean insights on healing from trauma, breaking free from societal pressures, and basking in the magnificence of divine love. Prepare to witness an extraordinary voyage of healing, forgiveness, and astonishing transformation that will undoubtedly resonate with your own path.
View more resources on our website!
0:00 - From Shame to Freedom
12:29 - Dealing With Guilt, Shame, and Expectations
16:52 - Finding Joy and Transformation After Betrayal
22:37 - Finding Freedom and Healing in Marriage
28:59 - The Upside Down Kingdom
35:07 - Recovery and Healing After Trauma
49:16 - Forgiveness and Reconciliation
1:01:29 - Arrest, Peace, and Faith in Jail
1:17:23 - Online Comments and Personal Transformation
1:23:36 - Navigating the Consequences of Infidelity
1:38:51 - Transformation and Healing in Marriage
Keywords: Redemption, Transformation, God's Love, Healing, Forgiveness, Faith, Overcoming Adversity, Personal Growth, Spiritual Journey, Liberation
Find Dusty Boys at https://www.lovereality.org/podcasts then cancel them!
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:So in my mind, like guilt and shame, represented walking into the room and letting people know with my body, posture or whatever, that, yeah, look at me, I messed up and I'm that guy and I'm sorry. I'm here. I hope that I can receive your grace.
Speaker 3:I had such a direct revelation from God and because I knew that everything was going to be okay, I didn't know how and how quick it was going to all take place Like I was good.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Death of Life podcast. I am in person with my homie Jaila, with my brother Eddie, and we're. If you've heard the last two episodes, those books were kind of heavy, like heavy, but there's like a lot of stuff in this episode. I have to admit it's a little heavier. You're just like I just want something. Light is a little heavier. And what do we get into you guys, man?
Speaker 2:you just have to wait and see.
Speaker 1:Yeah you just have to listen to it. Probably shouldn't listen to it if you're a child and because there's some stuff in here. But I'll say this God loves us so much and he transforms lives and this is a story about that. You may have thought how can it get crazier? We'll just keep listening.
Speaker 2:It's about to get crazier, it's about to get crazier so buckle up strap in Love. Y'all Appreciate it. Peace.
Speaker 1:So this is going to be a little bit different than a normal Death to Life podcast, kind of like, you know, morgan and Tyler's episode together, natalie and my episode together, because we kind of want to continue with the story and we've gone from Death to Life and Eddie's story, we've gone to Death to Life in Jaila's story, but I just want to set the scene because there's some some crazy stuff that happens in your guys' lives. So, jaila, where we left off with you, the Holy Spirit's communicating with you about that, you've been praying for this brother. You invite him back into the house, you start seeing him Like. You remind the listeners the question that you asked him on this phone call.
Speaker 3:When I officially invite him back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you're like I need to know this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I asked him if he felt any guilt or shame Right, and that question was really for me because I had been on my own personal study about guilt and shame and how you know it was never, ever, ever from God, it was always from the enemy. Like God does the opposite of putting guilt and shame on us, like the only thing he puts on us is our identity, is righteousness mercy goodness, like. Those are the things he puts on us and like you know, john 3, 16, it says for I did not come to condemn the world, right. So this condemnation, this guilt, this shame. Now I think some people get tripped up when they hear the question like so he didn't have any guilt or shame, he had repentance, 100% repentance. He had remorse, he had sorrow. So can.
Speaker 1:Can, Eddie, can you go into that with? That means a little bit, Because if you listen to your episode and you're you're sitting there feeling kind of weird about it after you hear Jailer's episode, because you've heard everything that you went through, and then at the end you're just like, oh, there's no guilt and shame, even though the actions let's just be real they're terrible, but now there's no guilt and shame. Can you explain what that means so that we can understand that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. So then the night that I gave my my life to Christ and I started just reading scripture and learning and growing in this thing like a few, a few days after, I remember that that the jailer said hey, one of my girlfriends, she's inviting us to go to her pool, we're going to hang out a little bit with the kids and you know I want you to come along and whatnot. And I'm just like, yeah, okay, I'll come. But I really didn't want to come because there was a space where I was feeling shame, like people know, like I'm not back in the church, I'm not working. All of a sudden I disappeared and now I'm just showing up to these pool parties if nothing happened. And that was the very first time well, not the very first time, because you remember the episode like Spirit had already been talking to me, but like the continuation of him teaching me. And he tells me Eddie, guilt and shame is a form of pride, because it's trying to still identify with a former man and you're walking around wanting to not let others to portray these image, to rescue or salvage this image. That wasn't so when you're feeling shame for for what you're doing right now is because you're still identifying with what you did and you're not that person anymore, right? So if you're trying still to identify with that other person, that means that you're also trying to identify with the quote unquote good things that that person was and I don't know. That kind of made sense in my, in my, in my head.
Speaker 1:Is it kind of like the old person is not that bad. Is that what you mean, Like?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:And so if you're shame, you're like this is not that bad person who made some bad choices, rather than this was a person who had a bad heart, who had a bad motive, who like, but that person is dead because I'm new in Christ. Is that what you're meaning?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, that that's it. So for me to to still walk in shame and feeling bad for what I did it like, how spirit revealed it to me, was that, eddie, you can, you can walk. You don't have to feel shame anymore Because the person that was had a, had a, had a, had a bad heart, right, had a distorted view of who he was, but now you know who you are, so you can just walk in that, in that freedom, I don't so help me with this, eddie or Jaila.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't. For me, I feel like shame and guilt helps me prove to God that I'm really sorry, like Joyce taught. Touched up on this, like if I can like say sorry so many times over and over again to God for at least a year, you know, then I have the right to approach him.
Speaker 1:Okay, Let me ask it this way, because I feel like that was a little confusing. I think we want to Let me say okay. So, Eddie, you answer this question about guilt and shame to Jaila. How did you understand? Because if we've heard your episode and we hear all these crazy things that have happened and now we hear, oh, I don't feel ashamed, I think it's important that we define what shame is, so that people understand what you're not feeling. Are you feeling godly sorrow for things that you've done in the past? Did you feel them back then? Are you feeling them now? Or shame meaning I am the thing that I did, like I am so with that definition? Were you explain that to me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know that I could tell you that I had a definition in the moment of what shame was Right. I just didn't know it was in mind to carry. So when Jaila asks me that question, I'm just like Jaila, you may not like the answer that I have to tell you, but no, I don't have any guilt or shame for what I did. And those words just came out. I don't know that I actually processed them or got nervous about it or thought too much about it, but it was just something that in the moment I was just like. I don't have any guilt or shame anymore, because what I have instead is a heart that last night was given to God. Everything that I did, everything that I went through and what I which includes that guilt and shame, like it was surrender, what was given to me instead last night was that freedom, hmm, was that forgiveness, was the new heart. So that's why then I go on and say, like Jaila, I don't have any of that. But you know I I asked for forgiveness of the Lord you know, I've asked you for forgiveness and I hope that someday you forgive me, and that's all I have To. Then the answer is that's exactly what I wanted to hear, because she had already been journey and understanding all this, and because I didn't have a clear definition of what shame and guilt was at the time. That's why those lies came back days later, when I'm invited to this pool party is like you know, hey Eddie, like how are you going to show up Like nothing happened?
Speaker 1:You get invited to a pool party and you're not really interested in going because you're still feeling weird.
Speaker 2:No, because I mean my entire life like you see, like you're supposed to carry these sense of remorse and war with me. What is me? And like I'm so ashamed for what I did. So, in my mind, like guilt and shame represented walking into the room and letting people know with my body, posture or whatever, that, yeah, look at me. I messed up and I'm that guy and I'm sorry. I'm here, I hope that I can receive your grace and I'm just going to be at the pool party. I'll just hang out in a corner. I'm just being the good husband that is accompanying his family. But you guys know that I'm not going to have fun. Because how could I? Because I messed up and done this thing. So, as I'm thinking and trying to imagine this thing, it just doesn't sit anymore. And that's when the spirit comes and he says like Eddie, you don't carry any more guilt and shame if that's your definition of what guilt and shame is, which it was at the time in my mind because you're supposed to walk around like that.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, let I think we need to talk about this. That is the expectation of the world. Still right now, the expectation of the world is let's just let's talk about you. The expectation of the world to Eric or Neho is that you are supposed to walk around with your tail between your legs, with your head down for the rest of your life, for forever, and so if you're not walking around like that, then are you really? people are frustrated, yeah and so, but then there's also someone else I want you to speak to the person that's hearing this that has really messed up and their posture is that posture. They have not even forgiven themselves. And we're jumping a little bit ahead to actual gospel right now. What do you say to that person that has messed up and is trying to figure out like they're so sad, they're so sorry, they're so much remorse and there's guilt, shame and there's condemnation. What can you say to them, from, from your understanding and your experience, that would say this is not the way to walk, my brother.
Speaker 2:The one thing that I would say is just like, stop looking at your own life, because as much as you look at your own life, yeah, those things are going to surface up and they're going to eat your lunch. So if we're jumping ahead with the gospel, like, yeah, romans 8, the idea of, like there is no condemnation, and Romans 8, 38 for I'm sure that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present or things to come he goes on nothing will separate me from the love of Christ. If you look at that text like that's a very comprehensive list, like created things that we see that we don't see like nothing can separate you from the love of Christ, except that there is one thing that is missing from that list, and it's the past. He goes, nothing present or thing to come, because the past has the potential to lead you into shame and guilt, into the mindset of if only I would have. Oh, if I could just change that. And so you start looking at yourself and what you did or what didn't do, and that's just a trap. You get caught up in that cycle of death and would have, could have, should have, and then that leads you into that space that, yeah, so it makes sense that God couldn't forgive me. It makes sense that my family, my community, my people are, are feeling some sort of way towards me. And I have to feel this way, I have to carry this weight because people expect it, because, yeah, people expect it, and you've put that expectation in your life as you continue to dwell in the past. It doesn't belong to you anyway.
Speaker 1:So Jill, let me ask you this From your side, you get invited to this pool party. What are the feelings that I'll go into this like I'm invited, my husband is invited and you know the thing that is either hanging over your head like it should be hanging over your head, or that, like you're moving on because of God, but you know that people think it should be hanging over your head. How did you deal with that kind of thing, and not just the pool party, but moving forward in the months?
Speaker 3:Yeah, expectations right, yeah, yeah, yeah, like there's certain expectations that a victim is supposed to carry and it's like, yeah, of course I was mortified and I was embarrassed about what Eddie had done to me, but because I had such a direct revelation from God and because I knew that everything was gonna be okay, I didn't know how and how quick it was going to all take place Like I was good. Right, I was embarrassed, but like in my heart of hearts, I was good and I think that so you mean?
Speaker 1:like, yeah, how did you deal with that embarrassment and what does that mean?
Speaker 3:So yeah, just embarrassed knowing that people knew that my husband had cheated on me, and I've also have always, and I guess I could touch up on this a little bit later on, because the things that a follower were actually more embarrassing than my husband cheated on me, so maybe I'll talk about that later on, about embarrassment, but I will say expectations, like I think people expected me to be all sad and gloomy and depressed. not to say that the situation wasn't sad, it was very sad. Not to say I didn't have sad moments but in general, not to say that I didn't grieve like I grieve the loss of what I thought my marriage was Like. when your spouse cheats on you, that's a death of a marriage or the death of an idea of what you had, or the death of innocence, or the death of naivety, right. So a lot of things died. But because Eddie was never my source of joy, that never died Like joy could not be taken away from me. I was sad but I still had joy. Right For the joy set before him, he endured the cross because, even when he was on the cross, he still had joy, because I'm his joy. And so, yeah, I was in Paris. You know, there were moments of sadness, there were moments where I would cry, of course, and be upset and weeping personally, but I still had that joy and I still had happiness. And I think or sometimes people expect, like I'm gonna be bitter now, or now I'm going to light his clothes on fire and burn them, or now I'm gonna become my new version, better version of me, like now I'm gonna exercise and hit the gym. And I remember someone commenting like, oh yeah, I've noticed, like you've been working out a lot and doing these things, you know, and they were putting on me like I'm doing these things, I'm exercising, I'm getting the six pack because, like I gotta prove to the world that I'm beautiful. I don't have to prove to the world that I'm beautiful. I already knew I was beautiful. Eddie didn't like. Eddie telling me that I'm beautiful didn't confirm that I was beautiful. The Heavenly Father, living in me and saying that he loves me, I'm his child, revealed to me my beauty, right. And so it's like I was working out and I well. So this is a thing like I was posting, like my journey of giving a six pack, because I've always been in fitness, like exercise, sports, I have a PE minor, I taught PE for several years and health, and so I had always wanted a six pack and I knew that it probably wasn't going to happen because, like you, have to have a very low body percentage. Yeah, body percentage. And it's diet. And I was like mm. I'm not gonna like restrict myself. Well, when every like after Eddie cheated on me, we're gonna get into that. But basically some things happen that cause a lot of stress in my life, and when I get stressed I don't eat. I'm not a stress either. Like I was so sick to my stomach I lost like 10 pounds and I'm already.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't have those.
Speaker 3:I don't have that 10 pounds to lose, like I'm already like long and lanky, looking like a gazelle or a giraffe up in here. So I was like, hey, I should maximize on this weight loss and get my six pack. So that's exactly what I did. It wasn't like I was like, look at me, like my husband cheated on me and so now I'm gonna like get my best body. You know, I'm getting close to my 30s. It wasn't an identity crisis, it was just like, hey, I could actually have a six pack. And sure enough I did and it looked good, but I don't have any more because I gained that weight back and I'm fine with that. I needed to gain the 10 pounds.
Speaker 1:So, as as you're moving on this, this timeline, like this, this period afterwards, where you guys are kind of still living in South Carolina, or did you decide to move right after, like in the, in the coming months, right after this whole, like you lose your job?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think it's important for, for for us to touch on and maybe you touched on the previous episode, I haven't listened to it yet that when I come back to the house, what do you see in me?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when I invite him back to the house, god was like I've changed your husband, and to me that was like I don't. I don't know what that means. What kind of change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the first thing that I know this was a physical change, like when he walked through the door, like he had light in his eyes, because you know, when people are carrying around, when they're living in deception number one, but then they're carrying this thing, you know you're cheating on your spouse and and you've got darkness. There's just this darkness, there's this sadness, there's this gloominess in your eyes. That was gone and that was so noticeable to me when he walked in the door and I looked at him, he had light in his eyes. Now, that was just like. It was a huge contrast to how it was before. So that was the first thing. That was kind of like little breadcrumbs that the Holy spirit was leaving along the way saying like I got you. So first of all he's like change them. And then I see this physical change. I see this light, because light in somebody's eyes is one of the most beautiful things. Yeah. That you can Behold. So I saw this light in his eyes, and so then we were just doing yeah, what did life?
Speaker 1:look like. So let me ask you this, jaila when, when Eddie comes back to the house, you invite him back into the house, what was his disposition? Did he seem like he was a dog that had been kicked, or did he seem like there was something different going on with him?
Speaker 3:He seemed hope, that he was different. Yeah, he just had hope. He had light and I couldn't put my finger on it. He was yeah, the darkness was gone. It's it's from death to death. It's kind of like we've seen it. It was a miracle. Yeah, I mean because Eddie you've seen it, Jaila, you've seen it.
Speaker 1:We've. I've seen it. When someone receives the truth over who they are and what is the, what is the term, what are the words that they're always saying? They say I feel lighter. I feel lighter and it feels like there's a spring in their step and it's almost like the baggage that they were holding onto they are. They feel free to just drop it. Yeah, that is amazing. When someone realizes like all this stuff I've been carrying and the stuff that they've been carrying is I'm not enough. I am the thing that I did. I'm never going to be better. The struggle is for my whole life. When they realize I don't have to think like that anymore because of what Jesus did, it's like their bags are dropped off and there's tears coming down their eyes and they're like I feel lighter. Well, it's like before I was born.
Speaker 3:I was born. Well, it's like before Eddie got free. When he was around, it was like a dark cloud, and when he came back home even though we had to still process some things and I still had questions to ask him that cloud wasn't there. The cloud was lifted Right.
Speaker 1:That's, that's, that's beautiful. So let's, let's move forward a little bit. Eddie, when did you go to Hawaii? When did you first go down for your first love reality? Because you tell us that story, because in that story there's a moment where you realize that you're living double minded, adam, one like in in the literature you're reading about getting over or moving past or through adultery, and I think that's important. So when talk to me about Jonathan inviting you out and what happened because of this?
Speaker 2:One of the books that I read remember I was reading Kindle books and what happens after the wars or an affair, and blah, blah blah. One of the things that that jumped up in the reading was, as the offending spouse, your job for the rest of the marriage is to heal her wound. And it looks like being able to answer all the questions that she may have, no matter how often they come and no matter what season of your life they come in. Some of the literature was saying like, maybe you know six months, three months, 15 years, right, and everything is fine. But then a memory, a trigger, a thought rises up and you have to be ready to, to go through that process of of answering the same questions that she may have and don't get angry because she may ask you the same questions that you've already answered, and like, don't get all defensive and whatnot, right? So I, I, I posture my heart like, without knowing the, the, the, the, the depth and the fullness of what freedom looked like. Yet, yeah, like, even even if my wife ends up being emotionally neutered towards me, I can. I can carry that because I really want to be married to this woman, right, right, but God is better than that For sure. So we're packing the house, we're putting stuff together to just move to Atlanta and, and there are thoughts that come in your mind, right, but you look so like, yeah, you talk about it. Well, um, you know, eddie was really good about answering the questions that I had.
Speaker 3:It was never like this again, as he should be Right, sure, um and um, or even if it was, yeah, like a question that I had asked maybe five times I think I was like I'm not sure, a question that I had asked maybe five times. He was just like super patient and answering it and but sometimes I would have a question and I would be battling it in my mind but I had a poker face on, like I would be doing the dishes or you know, packing up boxes, and on the outside, um, everything looked fine, but on the inside, like I'm hurting or I'm I'm doubting or I'm angry, yeah and um, but I'm not showing that. And in those moments like so beautiful, because like all along, eddie's thinking not all along, but Eddie's thinking early on, when he's reading those books about you know how to heal your marriage after an affair, he's like you're going to have to be the one to heal her wounds. And it was really the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit would tell him your wife's hurting or your wife needs to talk to you, and he would just come and find me and he'd be like what is it? And I'd be like what. And this happened not once, not twice not three times Like I don't. It happened enough to where I was finally like how do you know? I just couldn't believe it that he would just know, because there were times where I would just straight up say like I'm upset, or what about this, or did you do this, or you know? Or if we're having sex and I'm thinking about her with him, you know, I'd say like I can't right now, or I'd ask questions right. So it wasn't like I was the type of person who didn't feel like I could ask questions, but there were times where it's just like I've already asked that question, I don't want to ask him again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean for anyone that knows you you're the kind of person that you've made up your mind on something and you're going to run with it and not look back. So when you say, eddie, I forgive you, eddie, I've asked you the questions and questions and that then that's it. But in a case like this, we've never experienced anything like this. So right.
Speaker 3:Something is taking place in your brain and things are rising up and the enemy is trying to take advantage of those moments and just trying to to tip you off, tip you over and so, and also, I knew that you were devastated, that you had hurt me and I didn't want to hurt you because of love, right, because I actually did forgive you and I was just like part of that was a big reason why I wouldn't bring things up, because I didn't want to hurt you, because I knew how heartbroken you were because you had hurt me and I was like this is just going to break his heart.
Speaker 1:I have to comment on that. That's wild. Okay, because like normal lady or someone from the world that's been taught by the world, who's listening to this, like that doesn't have the background with the Holy Spirit and being loved by God I'm imagining just heard you say that and just like she's crazy because it's supernatural.
Speaker 3:It is supernatural.
Speaker 1:It's just like you're not wanting to hurt him. He hurt me Like he did all these things, but this is the upside down kingdom of. Jesus. Like you. You're a real person, like you're sitting in front of me and you live like this because Jesus has loved you so well. You're not. It wasn't like you were trying to think that you really did care about your husband.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely I didn't want to hurt him. Why is that that's?
Speaker 2:crazy. Because when the world, when the world is saying, like man, let me find out something that could really hurt him, she's over here. Like man, I know this is going to hurt him and I just don't want to bring it up. So I'm just going to bottle it up and try to get over it. But in those moments Spirit is like hey, Eddie, your wife is, she has questions right now. So I would just go over and be like, hey, babe, whatever you have going on your mind, just whatever question you have, just ask me. It's like what do you mean? I don't have any questions. Are you sure you can ask me? And she's like okay, I mean you've already answered this question before, but thank you. And then it becomes some sort of like it's helpful to have that kind of conversation and let it out without being judged, especially talking it out with the person that hurts you and hearing the response from the other side. And that's what Holy Spirit was doing. He was our marriage counselor, that's right.
Speaker 1:So that's as you're walking through this. In the subsequent months, there'd be times when your emotion came through and it would hurt because it was painful, but Eddie would come and he would speak to you and you didn't want to beat him over the head with it because you loved him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I loved him, and God doesn't do that to us, right.
Speaker 1:Oh, we think he does sometimes.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, we raise to think he does, which, hints, brings in a whole a bunch of things that we're not meant to carry, but in reality that's not what he does. I remember their sins no more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what if he actually never remembered your sins anymore? What if he did throw them in the ocean and your sins were as far as from east is from the west? What if that was true?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what if the Bible actually said that?
Speaker 1:Cause then? And then what if you were changed by him and, because you'd been forgiven, you had the same privilege to forgive others in the same way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what would life look like? Yeah, what if it's possible to?
Speaker 1:live that way and we might be sounding like we're jerks right now, kind of talking about it like this, but that's the thing is like all of this is true and it's true for you right now listener, like he doesn't see you for that. He's not trying to hurt you into getting your obedience right or your behavior correct. He's not shaming you or guilting you. God doesn't operate like that and when you're filled with God, you don't operate like that. You can't operate like that. That isn't, and also it doesn't work. Like if you were to guilt and shame Eddie into like all of this stuff, eddie loves you and he would have stayed, but it would have been way harder, it would have taken way longer and it would have been destroying your soul. And that's just. It is what it is.
Speaker 3:Well, also like, what did life look like for us after the affair? It didn't look like Eddie walking around on eggshells. I'll tell you that because I don't wanna be married to a man who's walking around on eggshells. I'm not walking around on eggshells in the presence of God.
Speaker 1:Mercy.
Speaker 3:I'm his child. I'm running boldly through the throne room, I'm running to his arms. I'm not like, oh, I don't wanna disturb him. One more mistake. Like I did not want a husband who was a doormat Eddie was never a doormat before. I didn't want one. Now I didn't want one when that was like yeah, so it didn't look like him walking around on eggshells, so what it looked like him is walking around as a new man with a new heart and knowing who he was.
Speaker 2:Mercy, shame and guilt will never bring forth. We'll never create in your life what it's supposed to create, which is a sense of restoration. Right, because what you think it's supposed to, because you think that guilt and shame, it's supposed to create this exchange where people see that you're feeling repentant, that you're looking repentant, now you can be restored into the community. It doesn't do that. It ostracizes you even more and you're never gonna get through guilt and shame. What you think you're gonna get, which is the acceptance of others yeah, because if we're talking plainly, that's what we think that it creates, that it is our ticket to be reinstated into the fold.
Speaker 1:So how does God reinstate people? Because we know how humans think it would work like this You're out, bro, Until you feel, or maybe you can never get back in In some ways and some people feel like that you can never get back in unless we see how hard you've worked, and then you can come back in, but we're gonna still look at you sideways. I don't even know how humans think it should work If it's not the way that God has done it. And so, like you were saying, god does it by.
Speaker 2:It is the goodness of God that brings man to repentance. And so when sin comes into the world, guilt, shame rise up and Adam and Eve hide, and God was just coming down to do his thing with them and walk in the cool of the morning and looking for that intimacy, as he always had been. And then, all of a sudden, they're not there. And then he calls man Adam, where are you? I realized that I was naked and I hid. Sin brought that in. So if you're living in, you're caught up in sin, you're caught up in the mistakes of the past that you've done. The best thing that you can do is just get out of the bushes and run to God. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, okay, I do want to move forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause you did ask that question a while ago. You know that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we end up moving back to. We end up moving back to my parents in Atlanta. And just to give a quick timeline, august 8th is when I tell my wife, my wife, what happened. You know about the affair. August 9th is our anniversary date. August 11th JLE invites me back into the house. August 14th I get fired and I'm driving back home. August 21st Luca is born Mercy.
Speaker 1:Right, he's downstairs right now watching TV with Nolan and John.
Speaker 2:And August 31st is my. It's Micah's birthday, August 2017. So the month of August of 2017 was packed for sure. And then by the end of September, we're all moved into into my parents' home. So all of that is taking place, right? So, as the healing is taking place and, in spirit, is is instructing, and remember that that very next day after my my surrendering, the next day, I look for these, this counselor Right Then start FaceTiming and whatnot. Jle joins in. We have sessions once a week separate, and then we moved to Atlanta. He happened to live in Atlanta. He wasn't coincident, I think he was got appointed, but now we're visiting him together and so we're journeying through these, through these counseling, through this therapy.
Speaker 1:So this brother in Atlanta, what was it? If someone's in the Atlanta area and and want to use his services, what's his dude's?
Speaker 2:name yeah, so he's a Christian therapist, david Beamish. David Beamish, yeah, you can look him up and he was helpful. He was helpful, for sure, to help me journey through through my own own own stuff personally.
Speaker 3:You know, he helped me realize that I wasn't crazy because this well, crazy in the sense of being okay because the world was telling me that. I shouldn't be okay, that I was falling apart, and I'm like I'm actually really okay, right, like I'm hurt. We've talked about that. I was betrayed. It was a death of a marriage, but I'm okay and I kept thinking like maybe I'm not okay. So I would ask, dave, like everyone keeps checking, are you okay? And I feel like some of these conversations I've had with my best friends, they're like really doubting that Eddie and I are good. Because, like, despite everything that happened, like we were good and I was good and I was really tripping up about that, like it really bothered me. Because it's like, why am I? Like am I just in denial? And then something's gonna happen. And then, like, cause I was in such shock at how good we were, at how faithfulness God had been, like how God had really changed him. Like, when God said he had changed Eddie, I didn't realize it was gonna be dramatic. I didn't realize it was going to be the instant he walked into the door. I thought I thought maybe we'd struggle for months or years, a process of lifetime, and that's not to say that it's not. For some people, like, freedom is instant. But sometimes, you know, because of the trauma that has been dealt, or different people's journeys, like sometimes it is a process, or the different layers. So I'm not saying that, but for us I didn't realize how instant it was going to be and I was just in shock. Like, yes, like we're seeing this counselor, there's things happening around us Eddie's losing his job, reputation, all those things but despite all that, like I'm good and I love my husband and we're just really really good.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you a question? So outside in, you know me hearing this story from whenever I heard it and hearing how it seemed like you were good. Outside in, it would look like you are really pushing that narrative and forcing that you're good. But what you're telling me is not only did you feel like, is this like this, isn't you forcing that? No, I'm good, we're good. You are even actually questioning should I be good, am I really good? So it wasn't like you're trying to push this narrative. You are actually even questioning should I even be this good or am?
Speaker 3:I this good Right, because I was never told that it's okay to be okay. It's okay to be okay, it's okay to be okay after trauma, and that's crazy because the world will say it's okay not to be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah right. But Spirit says it's okay to be okay, Like this is what I created you for, so be okay. You don't have to be a victim of your circumstance. You don't have to be the sum total of what has been done to you, because the cross is. It's no longer yours to be carried.
Speaker 1:Dog but you know what? I'm just gonna say it, man, some people do not want that, because their victimness is what makes them who they are, and if that gets taken away from them, then who are they Like? So much so that you wrap your whole life around that you were a victim of this thing, dude. So let's address that right now. Who are you?
Speaker 2:You're the image of God, beloved son, daughter of the living God, who saw you and adopted you before he created the world. That's who you are Like. Mike and Luca are born to my family right I had no choice. They're just wonderful dudes, praise the Lord, they're mine and even if they were terrible, right, they're mine. But when you go out and adopt somebody, like you go out and willfully choose to bring that stranger into your home and call him blood of my blood. Blood of my blood, like you know, he's my child. That's who we are to him, like he wasn't stuck with me and now he's like well, I guess I'm stuck with Eddie. Yeah, he messed up and no, he chose me.
Speaker 1:I think that the only reason why you would choose victim over son is that, if you don't know how good being son is, fire Because, like, why would? Because people consistently pick victim, and I don't know if they're sitting there thinking, well, I could be victim or son and I'll pick victim. You know the world has lied so much and the enemy of our soul has lied so much that being son isn't an option, because of either what they've done or the marks have been put on them. But if you're listening to this and you don't want somebody to give up their victimness because the other person wins, like can we speak to that?
Speaker 2:Like well, we'll speak to that. Okay, but we got to continue the story, so you get. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:You're crazy.
Speaker 2:No, there's no part.
Speaker 1:So you're going to the therapy. How does that end up Like? Get to the end of that, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So six months after our engagement in therapy, we go once more and Dave is like man, you guys are good, Keep doing what you're doing, Like. If you guys need me, call me. It's been four years plus and we haven't called them because we haven't needed it right. But early in the transition there was that freedom that was taking place via spirit. My life had been changed so radically, even the way I approach God through the vultures. The vultures started to change for me because, first of all, it started because I never had it right. So now I'm cracking the word open and the first book that I go to is just the book of Proverbs and I'm journaling and reading and claiming some of the things by faith, even if I didn't feel it at the time. Right. And so that's what I'm doing, and I'm trying to do it when Jalee is not watching, right? Because I don't want to create in her this sort of oh, he's just posing, he's just being fake, he's just trying.
Speaker 1:Right, you want it to be real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was, she would catch me and it was all good Because this is who I was. So we're doing all this thing. It gets to you know, three months after or so, we're having this conversation and, jayla, you know, because, for all intents and purposes, facebook is still quiet. You know, people don't know what. You know, think that I'm still pastoring and whatnot, except the local church. Yeah, local church knows, but so I'm like, hey, babe, you know, if somebody invites us to do, you know, youth ministry or lead worship or women's retreat or whatever, like what's going to happen, well, we're people of integrity. So we tell the truth, we tell them what happened and we let them decide and see what they want to do.
Speaker 3:A couple of hours later, after we posture day later that evening that tie, I get a phone call it's a hey man, like I've been thinking about you.
Speaker 2:I'm doing this thing and I'm looking for a worship leader. I wonder if you could come out who was on the other end and we're doing this thing here in Hawaii called love reality. Oh, jonathan, seventh Day, sabbath Leonardo was on the other end. And I'm just like oh shoot God, are you calling my bluff? I know it wasn't a bluff, but why? Is it? So soon? Why does it have to be Hawaii? Why does it have to be so soon?
Speaker 1:Because because you were like, do I tell this dude or do I just go to Hawaii on.
Speaker 2:No, do I tell this dude. Yeah, no hesitation, immediately. I'm like, bro, I messed up, you know, and he understood what I meant. And so I just tell him what happened and at the end of the like me sharing with him, he just asks this one question that he didn't even unpack. He just asked it and I knew what it meant. And he just said can you lead from a place of confidence If somebody's asking you guys like, what do you mean? But in my spirit I knew what it meant. Yeah, I'm like, absolutely yes, because I know I've been forgiven by the father. I know that I'm, that I'm okay, I'm restored, I'm transformed, but like, and then I tell them, but it kind of like, yeah, I don't know if it's okay to be okay to feel this way right, because I grew up as a pastor's kid and that's not the case. You got to walk around feeling like it's not okay, right, you got to show your repentance and man, in that moment he's like you're right, where you need to be, and then he just pours more life into what I was, we were already walking in and long short becomes that we end up all, all of us, the four of us, end up going to Hawaii for two rounds of tour and then, and then an extra week Because the Atlanta airport caught fire or something, and Holy spirit. Our fly got canceled and so we were just stuck in Hawaii one more week and I didn't have a steady job. Yet I you know I was still didn't have any any responsibilities in Atlanta per se. So all of that contributes to us understanding the gospel in a deeper way, what's he preaching when you're down there, was it?
Speaker 1:I mean I'm sure it doesn't look like.
Speaker 2:well, he starts with the prodigal for sure, and that revolutionizes my thinking, that moves me and he starts going on with identity. I mean a lot has changed in some of the content that the that we share in the tour is is the result of our lives.
Speaker 1:Okay, I wanted to take a little break to tell you that I don't like Facebook, but I'm on there. And I'm on there because we have the love reality gospel community on there and that is just a group of almost 3000 people who ain't growing, who have received this truth and are growing in it. And, like I said, I don't go on Facebook, but if I'm there, I'm in that love reality group and there's so much life, there's so much good stuff. So if you're vibing with us and you want to be a part, go to Facebook and look up love reality gospel community and and enjoy it, and then we can kick it. That's all I wanted to say. Yeah, joe, what did? What did you think? Because you're filled with the spirit, but you weren't free. We talked about this yesterday. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So when I went out there and I heard Jonathan preaching, I was confused. I didn't. I didn't understand what he was talking about. It was over my head. This whole thing about like hearing people were hearing Jonathan this is amazing, I'm free and I was just like, yeah, that's cool, what's the big deal? Because I was already so like radically in love with Jesus and he was already my everything. So I didn't realize yeah, I just didn't understand. Things weren't clicking and I was just like what's the big deal? So I had the Holy Spirit, but I wasn't free. Freedom came probably a couple months after we came from Hawaii. Oh, but one thing I appreciated about Jonathan like outside of our counselor, dave, and outside of the person of Jesus Christ, he was the first person who actually believed we were okay and so, even though I didn't understand his message up front, his body language, the way he spoke to us, positioned us as if we were good and that was hugely impactful to me. That and I I wrote him a letter and I thanked him because he was not feeling sorry for us. He was not positioning me to be this victim why, who's has a chip on his shoulder? Who's hurt. He was just speaking to us like we were normal people who understood the gospel. And so that's what I walked away from a free honeymoon, a free vacation for our family, my husband who was totally vibing with this message, and me, for the first time, seeing an actual little person who was not positioning us in anything but brand new. So then, two months happened.
Speaker 1:It has to be so powerful. It was powerful. Let me say this if you're listening and this is season two, obviously maybe you haven't heard much of season one Jonathan is is the founder of the love reality tour, which this podcast is built on. It's what it's. What's changed our lives is the message that we have heard via love reality, and so this man being changed by the Holy Spirit is now operating out of truth and is looking at you guys through truth, and you have experienced truth. You're experiencing the Holy Spirit, but then people, the church, the body of Christ loving you. What a powerful impact it's having on. Oh, maybe it is okay to be okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, and so I think that that, that the grace that was extended from from jump, when my father in law says what he says, and then the grace that is extended via Jonathan, that it's. It comes with the backing of a church community. It was just huge, and so that empowers us even to to receive it, believe it, walk it out even harder, run it run. So then December comes along. That's when we end up in the tour out there, right? So that's like about four or five months later I come back. I'm still looking for a job, trying to make things happen. You know, some of the money is running out. Jonathan asks me again to go out in January for another round of tours. This time I just go by myself and amazing things happen in that church that we're a part of doing that tour and we come back and what happens?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so every day, like three, four times, while Eddie's on in Hawaii and doing that thing with love, reality, like he's calling me, he's telling me these, me these amazing stories of like people going from death to life and miracles, and there's something in my soul I can't like saying I want that, I want that. And so he gets back and I'm like I want you to pray over me. I want you to pray over me because I want to, I want to experience that, that freedom. And so, a long story short, he prays over me and I, you know, receive. I just received, like this piece that comes over me from the Holy Spirit and it's just so beautiful. And in Eddie's prayer I'm able to forgive the woman that he had an affair with. Like I had forgiven Eddie, you know, as, as you heard in my episode, like I had forgiven Eddie right away, but I had not forgiven this woman in my heart and I was kind of saying like, okay, yeah, I'm going to forgive her. And oh, that's what had happened. Yeah, it's been a while since we talked about this. So I, eddie's sharing about all these stories and then I, I keep getting nudged by the Holy Spirit. Like you know, you need to forgive this woman. And I'm like, okay, I will. I keep kind of pushing, putting it back in the back burner. And the Holy Spirit's like, why do you think that you're going to be the one that forgives her? And I'm like, yeah, you're right. Right, it's forgiveness is supernatural. Love is a supernatural thing, it's a gift. And so when Eddie comes back, I'm like, yeah, I want to be able to forgive this woman, I want to be able to experience this freedom that everyone is talking about. So, yeah, he prays for me and I received the freedom and it was just so beautiful, I just forgave her. It just yeah, it's because yeah, you can share.
Speaker 2:Maybe like a couple of days later you're thinking, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So because before, like, I used to like think about her every day. It wasn't like I would obsess about her early on. Yeah, 100%, I'd obsess about, you know her. But then, as the months went by, you know I think about her here and there and then I would hardly think about her, except for, like when we were having sex. And so maybe a couple of days later, after that, he prayed for me, we were having sex, and then the Holy Spirit said, after we were done, he's like you didn't think about her. And that's when I knew like I had forgiven her. Because when Eddie prayed over me, like I had peace and I knew that I had forgiven her, but it didn't really sink in like the impact of that. And then, and then after you know, eddie and I had sex, and then the Holy Spirit says you didn't think about her once I was just like God is so good, he's so faithful and her, she never haunted me, she never. She was not allowed in our marriage bed from that, from that day forward. And that's just so beautiful, that's a gift he wanted to give me. And so that Eddie praying for me, that was the catalyst. Not forgiving this woman, that wasn't the catalyst. The prayer for me and my reception and me wanting this like that was the catalyst.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this is a good segue. You know, J Le, you've forgiven this, this lady, and and it seems like your guys's lives your marriage has been reconciled right, Turned around and you're walking in freedom. What happens next in this, in this story?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so at the eighth month mark, with everything that you just said. But then actually I the Holy Spirit had given me a job, a full time job, so I was working, doing my thing, and I get a phone call or I get an email. Actually, I get an email from my detective and I'm just reading this email and they actually want me to to come into the town to take a light detection test and whatnot. I'm like, yeah, sure, why not At first? Like super naive, what's going?
Speaker 1:on. This is a detective from South Carolina.
Speaker 2:Uh huh.
Speaker 1:And did he? Did he say what took in regards to what? Did you know immediately?
Speaker 2:No, no, in my conversations with J Le and other people like I, go back to this detective saying like I'm not going to show up to what you want me to do because I don't even know what what this is. Like, what, what is it? So then I get the phone call and they're like we're investigating you for for a sexual misconduct. Uh huh, right, there's an allegation against you. And man, in that moment, I'm just Dave. You want to talk about some fear and lies that rise up. That was the moment for me to when, where, where, I actually just I call J Le and I'm like hey, look at this email. Like this email is basically saying that I committed sexual assault on someone else, on this woman. Mercy. And my heart just sinks and I'm like J Le I need you to pray for me right now, cause I'm just you're tripping. I'm weak Like I'm tripping right now.
Speaker 1:I don't, I wouldn't, I'm not even mad. You know like that's tough man.
Speaker 2:So J Le, you know she prays and um, and that that's yeah, so.
Speaker 1:so, after you received this phone call, J Le, what, what did you think? You know? When you're hearing him say this, were you surprised, were you? Were you like, wait, what is going on? How did?
Speaker 3:you handle that Well. First of all, I was freaking out. I had some serious fear. I wasn't completely surprised yes, I was surprised. I never thought it would be this when um Eddie got fired. So I knew that there was a version of the story that was different and I knew that, um, that this woman was saying, um, basically, that, yeah, like he had misused his power or he had taken advantage of her. So I knew that, sure, so it wasn't a surprise to me in that sense that he would be accused of sexual assault, but it was a surprise that it had gone to the level that it had, like it had gone to like a legal level, is that? Legal level. Yeah so that was a shocker to me.
Speaker 1:Law enforcement yeah, law enforcement yeah.
Speaker 3:So I was shocked and instant fear grifted me and he wants me to pray for him and I'm like I need some of the prayer for me because my, my heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in a way that was probably kind of selfish, for sure, but I was just tripping in the moment. It's not like I wanted to put it on her, it was only afterwards. I'm like man, like my wife is a rock cause.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does seem a little selfish when, when you're, uh, you're just like pray for me, yeah, you're like pray for me, so let's, let's move forward a little bit. This first investigator kind of drops it, and then there's another investigator but seems like he's more intent and, uh, so much so that there's a warrant out for your arrest. Yeah. Right. So when, uh, there's this moment, I want to kind of, I want to understand like you're at home, right, jayla, and is Eddie's not at home, it's just you right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's just working and, um, it's a nice spring day. Mike is taking his nap, thankfully, and Luca is just a little baby. Um, he's on the blanket and I see these four cop cars come out and my in-laws live in like a decent middle class neighborhood and all the neighbors are cause four cop cars. It's like a drug bust or something.
Speaker 1:I'm like, was that necessary you? Know, so these four did you know what they were there for?
Speaker 3:Like, yeah, I knew what they were there for because, uh, the investigator had kept saying like, turn yourself in, turn yourself in, um, I was just like, yeah, he's out working. I was like, but let me call my lawyer. So I call my lawyer and put her on the speakerphone and she's there talking to the police officers, and then, um, and then I get back on the phone with her and she's like, yeah, okay, so this is a situation. Um, he can either ride in the back of the police car four hours back to South Carolina where you guys are staying, or you can just he can leave home, you know immediately, um, and drive in your own vehicle. You can come with him and he can turn himself in the morning. So those are your options, because there is a warrant. So either the cops can take you and he'll drive in the back of the cop car and it'll be uncomfortable he might be in handcuffs or you can just take him yourself. So that's when I called Eddie. I'm like, hey, you know the cops are here. She's talked to the police officers. This is what she advised. So what do you want to do? You want to get here now and have the cops wait for you, or do you want um?
Speaker 1:It's a no brainer, I'll take myself. Yeah, he's like no, no well, welcome.
Speaker 3:So I said, okay, um, I was like we're going to um, we're going to drive, we're going to drive to Carolina. He's coming right now, he's going to inform his boss, we're going to drive to Carolina and he's going to turn himself in. Um, so that's what. And I was just like I was just. It was so weird, it was so surreal because I had so much peace, so much confidence talking to the police officer and he actually looked stunned they looked on his face, yeah, he looked stunned that I was just so composed.
Speaker 1:Cause they're used to people just like yelling so much peace.
Speaker 3:So polite, so kind and he's like ma'am, I hope that you you like, I hope that you have a good day. And it's just wild. And I was like, yeah, I'm having a good day, and that was that. Yeah. That's crazy. And then he drove away and all his homies with him, or all his cronies, whatever the other officers and um, and then that's when the and then I started freaking out again. I'm like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:But in that moment there's peace.
Speaker 3:There's peace and there's confidence when it really matters.
Speaker 2:So you decide that obviously you're going to take yourself up yourself, and so you guys drive up to South Carolina the next morning, or like, yeah, we drive, drive that that same day, that later that day after work, we just drive and uh, yeah, I turned myself in check myself in um early in the morning.
Speaker 1:Um. Were you feeling sorry for yourself? Were you feeling like what? What are the thoughts that are going through your mind? You know it's a four hour trip and you're driving to turn yourself in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, we're just fine. I mean the. The previous months or weeks, whatever, leading up to this point, spirit had already revealed so many things into our lives. Um, and so the I'm fine.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The thing that spirit had revealed to me was was what I was living by or and through. Wow, his word, like he said it. I believe it so, especially even in those moments. That's where everything that we're learning from scripture, from sermons, like okay, I guess this is the, the, the test right, like what matters, more circumstances, or his word over our circumstances, mercy, and so we're doing it. So turn myself in and um, yeah, I remember when, when the handcuffs went on my wrists and I am sitting in the back of these patrol car at the station and they're transporting me to to jail, I was filled with peace and with joy and the prayer in my heart was father, I just thank you that I'm going into this place for someone else's sake. Hmm, crazy. That is crazy, because who thinks that way?
Speaker 1:Right Christ, you had not thought that way in your previous life.
Speaker 2:It's my life? No, because it was all about me, my self-preservation and me walking away in one piece. But now it looks like I'm not going to walk away, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:So what happens the next day? You get to jail.
Speaker 2:What happens? Yes, I get all processed in. It actually takes several hours for me to get processed in. We show up around four in the morning. They say we're not open yet, come back at seven. Yeah, so we come back in and we're trying to make early bond and I get just all processed in, and it's the first time I'm in this little space, is that?
Speaker 1:when they take your mugshot, they take the mugshot, the famous mugshot, the famous mugshot.
Speaker 2:And do you know, orange jumpsuit and all of that, turning my belongings, belongings, fingerprint, the picture and all of that, and then meantime, just waiting there in that little jail cell with all these other people.
Speaker 1:That's kind of just mentioned that I've seen. You know, I've seen the mugshot a ton to think about. What's going through your head before. When I the first time I saw that mugshot, I'm thinking this dude must be feeling like he's the worst person alive, or man he really did. But what is actually going through your head is something that I have not been able to understand in my life up to that point yet.
Speaker 2:So physically I'm tired. It was a long day, so by the time I'm taking my pictures, or taking, I'm tired, but I have so much peace Like it looks like you're blankly staring in that photo, right. Yeah, cause, what do you do? Do you smile? Like do you look sad or do you like either way, like people are going to see what they're going to see, and he's guilty as charged.
Speaker 1:Right. So that's what I thought, 100%.
Speaker 2:It was funny because, while all of that is happening, man, I'm just sitting in in in that room and people are asking, like, why are you in for and sharing and whatnot? And I'm like, man, if, if I'm still here tomorrow, I'll tell you guys, all about it. That's funny Because there was space in my heart that, like God brought me to my wife. He's not going to take me away, right, right. So my whole posture, my holy meaner, is that. And man, I'm just like. I remember that in this room there is, there is the guys and the ladies in the same space, but they cannot talk to each other and they're and they're far away from each other. There's one guy screaming in one jail cell. He's losing it for whatever reason. There are some other guys that are just doing this small chit chat. The TV is on and then this woman is pregnant lady. She starts losing it. Take me back to my cell. I don't want to be here. I'm in pain and blah, blah, blah. So as I, as I'm watching her, I'm watching her, everything within me, in my heart wants to go pray for her, lay hands on her and just tell her about like the love of Jesus. But I can't because we're not supposed to Right. And so instead, what I do in that moment, I just, in my heart, I just pray for her and her baby, for that pain to subside for, and I'm just having like a little 30 second prayer. Immediately after I say Amen, and I'm watching this thing take place in front of my eyes. This lady shuts down, comes down, sits down and for the rest of the day she's just sitting there calmly and I'm just wait what? Right. Because this is the very first time that I'm engaging in believing that what scripture says to do is actually possible to do and it's actually a reality to do Right. Right. And so that that I'm already tripping about that. And then the you know, maybe it was a coincidence and all these stars are rising up and I'm like, no, no, no, this was it. This was it. So then the second you know later that that afternoon we're actually speeding up moving forward. Now I got to face the judge and all of that. We're not going to get into any of that. However, I'm right there in front of the office where I'm about to see the judge, and there's this guy that is sitting next to me that he looks like he had a terrible night and I'm like man, brother, what happened to you? I'm like, yeah, man, I had a DUI and I rolled over last night and I shouldn't be alive, mercy, I shouldn't be here today. And I'm still kind of you know, shy about the gospel, I guess, to strangers. I'm like man, like I think somebody was looking out for you. Yeah, man, yeah, god, just like saved me and whatnot. Yeah. So I'm like dude, like so do you have any pain right now? Cause, now I'm like was it a coincidence? You know, the lady early on, or is it a thing? So I'm like hey, man, I don't, do you have any pain? You know from last night? I'm like yeah, my back is killing me, my neck is just destroyed. I'm like, man, I'm a Christian, I believe that Jesus can heal, and so I don't want to embarrass you. We don't. I would like to pray for you. I can even pray with my eyes open. No, man come here pray for me. He just grabs me, pulls me over, like so I just lay my hand on him and I just pray for him Like five second prayer, and then he just starts bro, how did you do that, how did you do that? And he just starts rejoicing and then he's like dude, can you just pray for my leg, cause it also hurts. So then I just pray for his leg and I'm undone, I'm done. Like in my heart I'm just this thing is for you. It is amazing and like, oh my gosh, it actually works. You know, what I'm just, and then the little window opens and I'm in front of the judge and I have to go through all of that.
Speaker 1:But I'm just like so you, you get bonded out how long from when you get out and you know there's a court date coming up, how long before, like the newspaper articles, hit the internet.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was the next day, the next day, the next day?
Speaker 1:Did you see them right away? Or, jaila, did you see them? Did something like how did it happen, like the timeline where people texting you? Or did it take a few days Like tell this, this article gets out there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the press can show up a bond cart court. And so the next day I think, yeah, some church members of ours, they sent us a link and it was a lady and she's like hey, heads up, I don't know if you've seen it. So it was kind of like she sent it to me to give me a heads up and so but yeah, I was early in the morning, like first thing as I wake up, like good morning, here's this mugshot of my husband. And so that goes back to embarrassment. I said we would get to that Like I was, mortified I was. I had never been more embarrassed in my life because you know, did you think that that was going to happen?
Speaker 1:Did you think that there would be a newspaper?
Speaker 3:No, I didn't think that there would be a newspaper article. Like I knew that there would be gossip and you know, I knew that people would find out but not this article and articles and all this, all these hundreds of thousands of Facebook comments and these shares and people, just like you know, saying these awful things about my family or my husband and, like you know, my whole life. I could be wrong, but I feel like I've had a good reputation. I've might have been under misunderstood, but I don't think anyone was ever like, ah Jaila doesn't love God. Oh Jaila, is this bad girl? I think that's ever crossing anyone's mind. Like I've always been good on good standing with my parents, my teachers, my professors. I've always had leadership positions. I've always had a good reputation misunderstood maybe, but always a good reputation. And this is the first time in my life, because of my association with my husband, I no longer have a reputation. So not only is his reputation shattered, but mine is gone. And that was, in a way, this article and him being accused of sexual assault was was worse, was harder for me in some ways than um than him cheating on me, because when he cheated on me, that went after my heart. But when this article came out that attacked my morals and my values which I hold very high and I was thinking like people are going to think that I'm the type of woman that would compromise my morals and values, my beliefs, which I hold very highly important and at that time took pride in right that's a pride thing. They're going to think that I'm the type of woman that would compromise those things in order to defend a man or to save my marriage. So I was like I had to get freedom from that, like because I before I would say I don't care what people think about me.
Speaker 1:Oh you better believe, see, because when the article comes out, when I first saw it, I mean because you have all of the background and you kind of know what happened, you know what actually happened the article reads and you read it like oh man, like it's kind of like when we read stuff that's written about us. Well, when we read stuff that's been written about us, like someone asked me, like yo is is any of this, is any of this wrong? And I'm like I mean the correct question, is any of it actually true? And so that's how you're reading it. I get this article. I don't know how soon it was from when the article comes out, but it makes it seem like Eddie has sexually assaulted and in my mind it was like a youth group kid, like that's what I thought. I was like and I'm looking at this smoke shot and I'm like, oh dude, messed up, his life is over.
Speaker 3:It doesn't pay him. In the good light it makes it seems like he has a pattern of doing this, because they set up like this hotline. They say if there have been any other women. So it makes it seem like it's a chronic thing that it's with these underage you know women like it's just horrible.
Speaker 1:And the rumor mills and the rumor mills going crazy, so like all that stuff that you were afraid that would happen. It happened. Yeah, it was, it was and it was bad. And, eddie, what did you think when you saw this thing? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:So when all of these breaks breaks out, two things become very clear. As I'm watching, all these take place on online on. Facebook. One of the things that that actually rises up very strongly in my heart is just as I glanced over some of the comments, I just see the pain and the hurt that these comments are carrying right and I'm just broken Broken for for the people that are interacting and in doing all of this stuff, because they're speaking from a personal place of pain, where I I remind them of someone that hurt them, took advantage of them and did all that. And it hurts not for me, for them, yeah. The one that hurt for me was when close friends, without even talking to me, start sharing this thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, they start sharing it. Not that they called you and said is this true? They start sharing it.
Speaker 2:Start sharing it for the sake of their, their hashtag and that one hurt.
Speaker 1:So I want I want to zoom out a little bit. There's this sports commentator who, while he was in college, stole people's credit cards Okay, and it was a big case. And now he's on on Fox and he's always talking about sports and whenever he has a an opinion that like a fan base doesn't like, a bunch of people will get in the in the comments and they'll have all these credit card jokes like watch how he was going to steal your credit card. Well, you know, and it's this thing happened in 1998 that he stole the credit cards. It's 2022. And I guarantee that I could, within a few clicks on probably something he's posted today, there's going to be jokes about stealing credit cards. You have seen this article. If your name is brought up, this article pops up almost every time, immediately, almost every time. How has the way you've looked at it changed from when it came out to now, when somebody just drops it as kind of just like a kill shot, like oh, oh, love reality, or oh, this, this, this kill shot. I'm posting, I'm going to drop this article, like, how has the spirit just stewarded your?
Speaker 2:heart, in this spirit, loves me very much and I've believed that and I've received that, because when, when, when I come face to face to these articles and read some of the stuff that people are saying, it hurts and for two days I'm I'm bummed out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it hurts.
Speaker 2:Because it hurts. But then the spirit, holy Spirit, reminded me and like I remember him, asking me, like Eddie, what matters more, what people are saying about you or what I have said about you? And when that question came, that set me free from from all of that, because in that moment I know what he has spoken about my life and I was just highly reminded that I am worth his blood and that his word over my life matters more than what people are saying or not saying about me, because I used to live for what others said about me. That's crazy, right? So why would I go back to the thing that I was freed from? Because for me to hope and want that these people actually think that I'm a good guy, that I didn't do this, you know, all of it is basically me going back to the thing that I was freed from and that became very clear for me and I was set free. So when these articles to answer your question, when these articles keep coming back as a kill shot or whatever, I'm just like, I'm still good. It's been four years and I was good then. I'm still good now, even better.
Speaker 1:It takes me to the week. I actually had a conversation with you for the first time and love reality is gonna be in Lincoln, nebraska, and this well-meaning, good intention person was hell-bent on blocking it because of the articles and this person even I don't know. They just tried to research it as much as they could and ended up, in fact, blocking love reality from coming. But they called me on the phone and they're like what do you know about Eric Ornejo? And I didn't know you, dude. But I was just like I just know that he's saying the same things that I'm saying, like our experience. And we didn't get together and say these are the talking points, like we're free from sin, we're da-da-da-da, no, like she. Just I just said like from everything this brother is saying, like I've been saying it and not just saying it, we're giving them with conviction in your own life, yeah, and she's like well, but, and I just asked her, I was like, do you believe the Holy Spirit can change somebody? And she's like, well, after years of da-da-da-da-da, I said no, do you believe that the Holy Spirit can change someone? And she couldn't answer that question because we can't admit that Eric Ornejo has changed or Richard Young has changed, or Jonathan or Tyler or Natalie or Jailor or Flo or John, like we can't admit that they're changed because that ruins our narrative. But then I met you and I hear this story that you're telling me right now and you pull no punches. There's no punches being pulled. It's just like old Eddie was in deception and was, you know, but new Eddie is a different man. And the next day you start telling me that you would have if you would have been in Nebraska or Timbuktu, you would have done the same thing, meaning you know chase, after affirmation through you know, sexual intimacy with someone who wasn't your wife. And you said you're admitting like, yeah, I would have probably done it. And I'm like how can this dude say that? Because you knew that that guy was dead and you didn't have to defend that dead person and we don't. I don't want to stay too much longer in this part of the story, but this article comes out and it goes viral among young Adventists who you know within a certain age range, that have either known you or and your reputation is, it's trashed. It's trashed, bro. And so we're what ends up happening. And I'm gonna say this the records show what had happened was an affair between two adults. That's what the record shows. The record shows that in real life, in the record shows that in the court of law and there's a lot of stuff that took place, but at the end of the day, that's what the record shows and the case is expunged, right.
Speaker 2:It's like. So during from that point, my lawyer meets with the prosecuting attorney and they go through all of that and it's not until eight months later that my case gets fully dismissed, my record is expunged and, like I said earlier that during those, during that time, it was just more of the same. I like going to work, praising the Lord and piecing my heart, and now I remember that early on it was one of those things where I'm like man, I'm not letting like. If my come to God in those moments of secret place is centered around what's gonna happen with this case, then I'm making it all about me and then the intimacy that he wants to have with me, then it just gets shattered. I'm not gonna miss out on that. So early on my prayer was like Father, I thank you that these mountain has moved in the spiritual and it's just a matter of time until it moves in the natural. And until that happens, it's just you and me. Baby, I'm not gonna come to you. Please, god, help and do that, yeah. What did you wanna say, Jenna?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I didn't want the people to think that I just lived in fear the whole time.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, how did.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I was mortified and I had a similar revelation that Eddie had, when the spirit he says, jaila, what matters most, that I know that you've lived a life of integrity or that they've known you've lived a life of integrity, mercy. And when that was spoken to me I'm like, well, it'd be really nice if they knew the truth. I was like, but no, at the end of the day, like what matters most is what you think and you know my heart and you know it's good. So that just gave me so much peace and it was just beautiful. And then, before the charges got dismissed and the case or the case got dismissed and Eddie's record was expunged, before all that happened, my prayer was that I would have peace before an outcome either in Eddie's favor or against Eddie's favor happen. I didn't want like to be like, oh yeah, god threw out this case, now I can have peace. No, I was just like God, I'm so sick of like going back and forth because there would be some days I was good, but then other days that Eddie would be like, well, you never know what could happen, he could end up in prison. And then my mind would just race and go like, yeah, what if he does end up in prison? And what if I do end up a single mom? And like, what if the boys have to be raised thinking that, having the father that's in prison? I was just thinking things like that and but then I just had to dismiss them and speak the truth over it like, no, this isn't God's hands. He's gonna handle it. He's brought the right lawyer. He's spoken words over me. He's spoken words over my husband Once again. If he has brought Eddie back to me, why would he take him away? I'm just gonna rest and have peace and just believe that he's gonna take care of this. This is his problem. This is not my problem. So I just had to keep repeating that and believing in the word and yeah, Can I preach just a little?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna preach just a little bit.
Speaker 2:Preach, bro, because, man, we're not building our home in the middle of the storm, because by then that's too late. Our home had been built for the past eight months, or however long it was, so by the time this thing hits the fan, my heart is good. I know who I am before God. I know who God is, I know who my wife is and what you know like. Our home is built on the solid rock, so when the storm comes, we're good. Yeah. See, cause, most of the time we just try to run to faith or run to God when the trouble is here. And yeah, man, he's the shelter right For sure. But man like we miss out on the true intimacy and what he wants to reveal over our lives, because then we just make it all about that circumstance.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about this moment here, on August 8th, and you're sitting in front of these cats and you're counting the costs, right, and the cost is that you'll lose your marriage, your reputation will be trashed, you will never work as a pastor in an Adventist church, ever again, but you'll be free. You didn't know how, like, when you counted the cost, you miscalculated a little bit. I miscalculated, yeah, you miscalculated, we both did, because it's been wilder than you thought it would be, dude and some stuff that you wouldn't wish on anybody. Like the internet lives forever, right, like it's on there. And even though the article says that the case was expunged and you know per it says per Eddie Coordinejo's lawyer. So to make sure that it's not from they didn't figure it out, it was the information you gave them. So, to add a little shade on there, so it's not. But the thing is this, bro, if people see your life and they want to throw the book at you, but the question is like, what do you want to happen to Eddie Coordinejo and Jaila Coordinejo? Do you want them to lose their job?
Speaker 2:Being there.
Speaker 1:Do you want them to lose their reputation? Done that. Yeah, your reputation is still trashed in some circles, bro, probably similar to mine. Uh, your, uh, do you want the just embarrassment? Do you want them to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law we have? Yeah, what they want is that you're buried underneath the jail, bro. They want your, they, they, they want.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't even know, but how could that not be the outcome? If guilt and shame is the ticket, you know, to reconciliation, if going through the, through the mill and being grinded so that you can show how repentant and how all of that is your ticket to come back in? Yeah, the, the, the grind, the grinding experience that I had to go through was jail for like 10 years or whatever they want. But, dude, like and this is just a separate parenthesis I was actually low key upset when, when I was released that day from jail, in my heart I was already, I had already planted a church in that prison cell. And that's wild for me to like, you know. But I mean God. God knew what he was doing. Like he, like my, my life has been, my life is surrendered to, my life is his. So he wanted to do with it whatever he wanted. So he knew that he needed me to to go to like these affluent people and still be working the job that I was working and pray for them and then be moved to Lincoln and have the availability of time that now my wife and I, my family, have, and just just go and share with people. So, like whatever God brings next, we're, we're down because it's going to be good.
Speaker 1:And can I say what we're not saying, like, what you did, bro, was horrible. What you did was horrible, but in this country it's it's legal for two adults to have an affair. Not not changing the fact that what you did was horrible and according to the Bible, it's punishable by what by death by death, like that's the punishment. It isn't 10 years, it's. It's punishable by death, and so we're not putting roses around any kind of our old man and saying anything about old rich or old jailer or old Eddie, like the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, what I did was horrible and it was punishable by death, but something else that was also punishable by death, and even punishable by the flames of hell, is like calling your brother Rocka.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hate, hate. Yeah, if you actually having hate in your heart, actually having hate in your heart for someone for someone else, so like man. Yeah, the point is that we were all in, we were all dead.
Speaker 2:We were all distant for that.
Speaker 1:We were on the side of the road. Ephesians two, you know. Titus, chapter three Like Paul says it very clearly like the state of what we have, like we didn't need to get better behavior, like the answer wasn't that after having this affair, you just stopped having more affairs. The answer was you needed to come to life, you needed a change, you needed a transformation, you needed to be born again. It wasn't so you, just now, you're not having more affairs. And so as you look back on this and you know we've we touched the tip of the iceberg for this story, like the story is there's other miracles and other stuff that we can't get really into because of because of time constraints and everything. But as you've looked back on this story and Jaila, you're looking back, you know, because the first time I met you you were so raw and honest with it. You're just, you're just real and you're telling people and you know that some people look at you sideways and think, oh, jaila is, you know she's blinded, just the way Morgan thought about you. And as you look back on this whole, you know it's getting almost four and a half years ago. Like, what? Like who is God? Like how did he do this?
Speaker 3:God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. He's good, he's faithful, he's consistent, he's all around me, through me and me, like he doesn't change. But what changed is my perspective of him. We saw that, what changes that my eyes are open. But he's always been for me and if I could go back and do this over again, I wouldn't want the pain that it's caused the church members, the pain that it's caused friends and family, right, but to gain what I've gained in maturity and spiritual growth and intimacy with Jesus. Ah, I do that again and again. Hands down, 100 percent. Yeah, you wouldn't change it.
Speaker 1:We hate when people are hurt. Right, we hate when people are hurt.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be a part of this, and if you could go back and not hurt people, you would go back and not hurt people, but what you have gained from it, like how would you have gained it, you know like that's why we wouldn't change that. But we love people. Yeah. You know all the people that are involved in this story and there's the story is beautiful and it's freaking, heartbreaking at the same time, because we've seen the pain, because we love our friends. We love our friends that don't understand, or still look at us sideways, or and and we, in parts of us, we'd like to just be like, look at me, dude, like, look at me, I love you. You want to just grab your people by the shoulders and just be like I love you, but we can't do that. Sometimes, you know, sometimes we're not able to go there because we're not invited or because of you know that isn't discerning, or, and so in that way it's heartbreaking, but in other ways it's, it's beautiful. And so, yeah, eddie, when you're, when you're thinking back about how crazy this is like, could you ever imagine your life would be what it is?
Speaker 2:It's good, yeah, no, no, I mean I just going back and thinking all the things that I hear, all the things that I held dear my reputation, my finances, my job, my standing, my, my freedom, my liberty, all of those things that made me who I was and I, you know, I thought I thrived and I was going to always have that stuff Everything got stripped away, only to expose what he created me for To be loved and to love. That's it it was worth it.
Speaker 3:I remember I was telling this story to this guy and he was like you know, I really admire you and Eddie, like yeah, I'm glad that you guys are working through this and that you know I can't remember the exact word, but yeah, we were. Yeah, the guy had healed our marriage. But you know, life is still a struggle and you know, I just because it gave him license for his life to be a struggle. And I just stopped him in his tracks and I said, hey, let me tell you something. I was like Eddie and I, we're not struggling, we're good. Like our marriage wasn't. It wasn't like a renewed, it was transformed. Yeah, you don't want to renew something, we don't renew that. Like I was like we're transformed and you can have that too. And to anyone that's listening, like man, eddie and I, like I'm so grateful that I listened to the voice of the Holy Spirit and I don't remember if I talked about this in my episodes, if I did shut me up. But I'm so grateful that I didn't divorce Eddie, because I would have missed out on what God knew he had planned for us.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing if, even if I would have divorced Eddie, god still would have blessed me right, I kind of want to touch on this and I think this is where we can wrap this thing up. I see you guys minister all the time. This non-stop ministry Like your life is ministry, and where you minister from is so important, and it brings up this verse in my mind that's so critical for us to understand. It's in 1 Timothy, chapter one, and it's where Paul is saying, like he's talking about how good God is and how good is God. Well, god is this good that even while I was formerly a blasphemer, insolent, I was hateful he goes as far as to call himself the number one sinner that God came, changed him and transformed him and actually gave him the gospel the gospel that everyone will be judged by to preach to the world. Right, paul is not ministering from the place of I am a sinner, I'm lowly, I'm a piece of garbage, and this is where I minister from. He's ministering from a place of formerly I was this, but look what God has done, how awesome is God, and that's where I minister from his awesomeness. And so I run into people that don't know your story and are just ministered to by you guys, and then when they hear, oh yeah, this is what happened in their life. They're kind of just blown away. They're like what? And that's where I see you operating from, like JLo, you just said it you're not wounded, you're healed. And Eddie, you don't operate like. You go up to people with boldness and you speak life over them, not because you're this chief of sinners, but because formerly you had this terrible self-centered heart. But God came through, transformed, you has given you the ministry of reconciliation and now you can speak life from that place. And that's what's so beautiful to me that you minister not from the dungeon, but from the penthouse where you belong, seated with Christ, and you speak life with confidence. And that's the kind of thing that shakes people. You're just like how are they so confident?
Speaker 2:That became so real like JLo pointed that out like the story of Jesus and Mary in Simon's house, mercy Right, where Mary just goes in and washes the feet of Jesus with her own hair and tears and whatnot, and Jesus goes into this little story and it goes along the lines of forgiveness and it gets to this part of the story where, because this woman has been forgiven her sins and there were many that's why she's loving the way she's loving right now. And that's me, dude. I was forgiven many sins, so I love a lot. I love a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if that, I don't know if a more perfect story, because this woman is crying on Jesus' feet and wiping the tears away with her hair. And I'm looking at your long hair now and I'm looking at the tears that are coming out of your eyes and if you're chilling and you're like, why are these people so wild about the gospel?
Speaker 2:Like because my many sins have been forgiven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those who have been forgiven many, forgiven much. I'll tell you why in a while.
Speaker 3:And I can tell you why in a while that God's about the gospel.
Speaker 1:She just hip hopped off the mic. She just hip hopped it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've always been wild about Jesus, right, but now I'm like crazy because I always knew God loved me. But when God radically changed my husband, that was the second miracle, the second biggest miracle I was like, ah, God loves me. And I just so much gratitude and just thankfulness and sometimes just crying and thanking God, like you did that for me, like you restored my marriage. You did it because you just wanted us to experience true intimacy. You just wanted us to be so happy. And that just makes me go crazy to know that God just changed my husband and it's just made me so happy and our boy so happy and our home so happy. And, man, I was like Jesus loves me. But when he changed my husband, I'm like y'all don't know he loves me because that boy needed to be changed.
Speaker 1:Right. So, as you're, if you could say something to like maybe someone knew the old corneos and loved the old corneos and they're hearing this podcast. Maybe they haven't heard from the old corneos in four or five years, but they did see that article that came out and they and maybe they've heard some weird stuff about love, reality or whatever. Like, what would you tell somebody who knew the old you about Jesus? Right now, as we're wrapping this thing up, I would tell them that.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't know what you've heard about us. I don't know what you've heard about love, reality. I can just tell you that my life's been changed, my husband's changed, my marriage has been changed. I'm not here to defend myself Like. I just know that I've been changed.
Speaker 1:Like come and see the Messiah. How did he change you? He loved you, didn't he?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, I would just say sorry you met that guy, Because he that guy was self-absorbed
Speaker 2:and he wouldn't get intimate in conversation and grew closer as friends is because at some point I saw him in the mirror and I was like, why didn't I get into that? I just didn't expect to see him. I just didn't want to be in a relationship with my friends because at some point I saw you and I didn't find any future value in your friendship as it pertained to my life and my career and my growth and my benefit and cause. That's who I was, even about me. Right? God loves you. He's crazy about you and don't let who I was and the marks that even I've placed on your life because of who I was paint a picture of Christ. That is not because God is good.
Speaker 1:Mercy. He's good man.
Speaker 2:And now, in confidence, I could say, you can look at my life and actually what you see is good as you get, and you can actually see from my life that Christ is good Love y'all Appreciate you.
Speaker 4:More than life, more than me, more than just pretend, you can feel it from within, free to fly, be the child that you always been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you so much for listening to the show today. We would love it if you could share this so that people could hear more of these stories, and a way you can do that is to rate us on Apple podcast. Give us a high rating. If you give us less than a five star, I've inclined to believe that you're not really rocking with us. So give us a five star rating and throw a comment in there. If you're going to talk about us on social media, go ahead and use the hashtag death to life and let's get that hashtag going. This podcast is a production of love reality, and if you want more information about love reality, go ahead and check us out at loverealityorg. This show is produced by Tyler Morrison and Katie Prusa, the sound and editing is done by Addison Collinsworth and Eric Ornejo, and then the Johnny on the spot is Annabelle Harper and the artwork is done by Felix Gassman. Thank you so much for listening. Love y'all Appreciate it.