Summary: Courtney's transformative journey from a childhood haunted by fear to a life embraced by Jesus resonates deeply, showcasing resilience and the redemptive power of faith. Candidly recounting family addiction and liberation from the doctrine of damnation, her story highlights struggles with identity as the 'golden child' and 'peacemaker,' navigating adolescence and the impact of purity culture on relationships. Parenthood and marriage become arenas for reckoning with deep beliefs, exploring unmet expectations and faith-testing trials. Through discussions on control in life's unpredictability, the challenges of pregnancies and NICU stays, and the transformative influence of seeking solace in scripture, the episode culminates in a narrative of finding freedom in Jesus—a redefined identity and desire, revealing the potential for remarkable transformation amidst profound struggles.
View more resources on our website!
TimeStamps
0:00 - Transformation
9:45 - Identity, Labels, and Adolescent Behavior
17:45 - Navigating Purity Culture and Relationships
26:08 - Messy Young Love & Religious Beliefs
35:40 - Disappointment and Challenges in Parenthood
45:05 - Struggles With Disappointment and Faith
1:01:14 - Transformative Power of Reading the Bible
1:12:22 - Finding Freedom in Jesus
1:17:59 - Transformation Through the Good Gospel
Keywords: Faith Journey, Resilience, Redemptive power of faith, Family addiction, Liberation from doctrine, Struggles with identity, Purity culture, Parenthood and marriage challenges, Faith-testing trials, Finding freedom in Jesus.
Summary: Courtney's transformative journey from a childhood haunted by fear to a life embraced by Jesus resonates deeply, showcasing resilience and the redemptive power of faith. Candidly recounting family addiction and liberation from the doctrine of damnation, her story highlights struggles with identity as the 'golden child' and 'peacemaker,' navigating adolescence and the impact of purity culture on relationships. Parenthood and marriage become arenas for reckoning with deep beliefs, exploring unmet expectations and faith-testing trials. Through discussions on control in life's unpredictability, the challenges of pregnancies and NICU stays, and the transformative influence of seeking solace in scripture, the episode culminates in a narrative of finding freedom in Jesus—a redefined identity and desire, revealing the potential for remarkable transformation amidst profound struggles.
View more resources on our website!
TimeStamps
0:00 - Transformation
9:45 - Identity, Labels, and Adolescent Behavior
17:45 - Navigating Purity Culture and Relationships
26:08 - Messy Young Love & Religious Beliefs
35:40 - Disappointment and Challenges in Parenthood
45:05 - Struggles With Disappointment and Faith
1:01:14 - Transformative Power of Reading the Bible
1:12:22 - Finding Freedom in Jesus
1:17:59 - Transformation Through the Good Gospel
Keywords: Faith Journey, Resilience, Redemptive power of faith, Family addiction, Liberation from doctrine, Struggles with identity, Purity culture, Parenthood and marriage challenges, Faith-testing trials, Finding freedom in Jesus.
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
Speaker 2:We weren't being loving to our children, we weren't being present with our children, we weren't being a light to anybody and it was just. It was horrible, and I was so disappointed in God and myself that I'm like this is just like. The thoughts that I had were overwhelming of just your like. My life was miserable. It was horrible. I hated every minute of being awake. All I wanted to do was go to sleep and just never wake up.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the death of life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with my sister, courtney, and Courtney's story is not for young years. There is some stuff about self harm there is. It's a sober episode, but it is so beautiful and to hear her energy and her life. This is a story about somebody who just believed the lies that led them to despair, and how truth came in and saved the day. And Jesus says you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. And this is one of those stories. So we're just going to jump into this thing. This is Courtney Love y'all, appreciate y'all, buckle up, strap in. So, courtney, where does the story start? Where are we going? Take us back in time, for, however far back you want to go, where are we starting this month?
Speaker 2:I feel like it's important to start from the beginning.
Speaker 1:It's a very good place to start.
Speaker 2:So I can just start from like where I grew up in church. I just recently found out that it was my aunt who actually led me to the Lord. I guess I asked her in nursery if I could ask Jesus into my heart and she was like, yeah, and so she prayed with me right there. I didn't know that. What's her name, aunt Lisa?
Speaker 1:Shout out to Aunt Lisa yeah it was her.
Speaker 2:But we went to a church where it was like it was my uncle Eddie's church and it was fired brimstone kind of church. I don't remember much of it, Only him like getting really excited and running up and down the aisles and like sweat and yelling, Just excitement for whatever it was that he was talking about. But I was really young when we were going there. I was like kindergarten age.
Speaker 1:Is he still a preacher?
Speaker 2:No, he retired. He did it up until retirement.
Speaker 1:And his style was just like running up and down and letting people know what's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was more like it's like very old school. So we did hymns, which. Nothing against hymns, I love hymns. We had a projector that like we would put up an occasional worship song on it was like Lord, I lift your name on high.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. The greatest worship song of all time, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was like you're one wrong move away from going to hell and I just from that, I just remember every year being like I promise I'll be good, I won't do all the bad things that I've done before, just give me one more chance to get it right. And we went there for a long time and up until middle school and there was no. Nobody had a good Christian like lifestyle, like my home life was very destructive. My parents were constantly splitting up, hitting back together, very abusive, and then my dad had a drug addiction for eight years, and so then we started going to a new church which Aunt Lisa took us to.
Speaker 1:Shout out to.
Speaker 2:Aunt Lisa. What was there?
Speaker 1:Was your background? Was it religious, Like your family background?
Speaker 2:No, I'm not. I mean my mom tried her best, Like she didn't really. Her parents sent her to church to keep her out of trouble, is like that whole thing. And then my dad grew up in the religious home so he was forced to go until he no longer wanted to go. So my dad never went to church with us, and just like holidays Christmas, Easter, that kind of stuff. And then my mom took us with my aunt, but at home, no, there was no. I think we prayed before we ate our meals.
Speaker 1:If we were so who was God then?
Speaker 2:If really I was just afraid of whoever God was.
Speaker 1:Like I don't know he is. No, I'm scared, I'm scared of him.
Speaker 2:He would smile me down yeah, no, I there wasn't. I don't remember much of him other than the 10 commandments and, yeah, just being afraid of doing something wrong or going to hell, like that was probably the only reason I asked Jesus into my heart was because I was like I don't want to go to hell. And also there was the age of accountability. Was like a huge thing and I remember what I think I guess it's like an age that you get to where you should know right from wrong and if you choose Jesus, then you should be living right, and I always stressed about that because I'm like I what each is that? So I just made sure I just covered every age with Alex of Jesus.
Speaker 1:I saw this Instagram reel or this TikTok, and this guy is talking about how he got addicted to going up for altar calls and so, like he would go every week in the past, there's Steve, you were up here last week, and he's you said to be like, if I'm not 100% sure that I'm saved, to come up, and I'm like I'm sure, but I'm not 100% sure. And so then he got addicted to going up during the altar call, and so is that kind of what you were doing just to cover your basis.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yeah, cause I didn't want to go to hell. I had, I don't think I had any interest in because I didn't know who God was, so I had no interest in that. I just didn't want to go to hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I know what hell sounds like and I've seen the cartoons, so I'll take the other one.
Speaker 2:Basically Yep.
Speaker 1:So how did that work out for like behavior change? I mean, how old were you when you were, like, really afraid of this stuff?
Speaker 2:Probably when I was like 10, 10 years old, because I was, I remember, praying like the Lord's prayer every night, going to bed just in case if something were to happen while I was sleeping I would know where I was going. So I would say probably 10. And and that's like when I really was like I want to try to be good. But I also didn't know, other than the 10 commandments, what good Christian living looked like either, because there was no model of it that I could look to and no one was telling me either. So I'm like I don't know. I just knew that I wanted to do the right thing, but I didn't necessarily know what the right thing was. I think I was a good kid.
Speaker 1:That you were an amazing middle child.
Speaker 2:So I had my crazy ADHD brother and then my antisocial sister, so I was like the golden child. And you were like a peacemaker too, since you're that middle child, oh yes, actually, my mom used to call me her peacemaker and she made me a little jewelry box with this whole thing in it about how I was a peacemaker, so that anytime I would start to fight with somebody, I was really quick to be like no, I'm the peacemaker, I'm not going to fight with you, but I am right, but I am also the peacemaker, so you can just calm down.
Speaker 1:Isn't that interesting how good things stick with us as well as bad things stick with us If you get labeled. A thing like it can be such a positive thing in your life if it's a positive thing you're labeled. But even then you'll start to identify with that thing rather than like your true identity, and that can even get a little mixed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, If you ask probably anyone, even extended family. Everyone called me the princess of the family, even by aunts and uncles. I was everybody's favorite.
Speaker 1:It's nice to be the favorite, but then what's not nice is when everybody believes you're the favorite and you're just like. That gets weird.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%. I got grounded once and it was like everyone turned on me because I lied and my uncle called me out on it, called my parents real quick, and yeah, everyone was like now we'd. And then that was like horrible and crushing. I was 13, going into high school.
Speaker 1:What'd you lie about?
Speaker 2:It was stupid. I was out of France house and there was this text like hey, we're having a bonfire come over. So we went and it was on Facebook and my uncle was like hey, did you know, courtney went to this bonfire, which there was nothing there. We were eighth graders, so it was like going into freshman year. And my dad was like, did you go that? And I was like no, I didn't. And basically they're like let's just call your friend's mom and see if you guys were there. And I was like no, don't do that, don't do that.
Speaker 1:And I thought why didn't you want it? Why didn't you want to say you were there?
Speaker 2:Because my parents said no to everything. I wasn't allowed to do anything. If I would have been at my friend's house and said, hey, can I go to this bonfire, they wouldn't be like no, Then none of us could have gone. So I was like they don't need to know. They don't know where I'm at.
Speaker 1:It's why they don't need to know how are they going to find out? It's foolproof, can't lose. We're just going to go eat s'mores, right, and they'll be none the wiser.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly. But no, I got caught and I got grounded for a whole summer For lying yeah.
Speaker 1:For a whole summer. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:Grounding for the whole summer I was not allowed to go to my friend's house. I was only allowed to go to cheerleading and then home. It only lasted for a month, if I'm being honest, but it was. The worst part was because my family was so upset, like my grandpa. I remember it was 4th of July and we went to Bob Evans, like we did every year, and it was like super crowded and my whole family's there aunts, uncles, cousins, everybody's there. My grandpa tells the waitress, this one down here is a liar and I was like, oh gosh, I went from like up here to way down at the bottom.
Speaker 1:This one right here is a liar. Yeah Lord, have mercy man, that I feel like this is a big deal in your life, or it was a big deal in your life.
Speaker 2:It was yeah, Cause I was used to people loving me and I was only as good as how people were like treating me. The more love that I got from people, the more good about myself that I felt. So I was like went from feeling super good to then everyone hating me and then turn hating myself.
Speaker 1:When your parents or your grandparents use the old, I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. It's really about turning up the guilt and shame to the next level because this will get them to stop. Not effective in the long run, or maybe even the short term. No, it's just oh, you're disappointed in me and they're thinking like if our kids just really hate themselves or I don't think they're thinking that, but then maybe they'll stop this behavior or something. But it's not a heart change.
Speaker 2:No, no and it's anything. It was almost worse because then I worked really hard to get everyone to like me again, so then it looked more like crying all the time and like feeling sorry for myself so that they'll give me attention. I think that's like when I started cutting, not really. I think I did one actual thing, but I was like, look, this is how sad I am, this is how pitiful I feel right now. Everyone hates me. Yeah, I used a lot of manipulation Old Courtney was like gross in manipulation just so that I could get back into good graces or someone feeling sorry for me, so they could puff me back up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gotta. These are the tactics. If we're living in that kind of world, what are your options? You gotta figure that out right, or else what are you gonna do? Sit there actually being a bad person? No, you gotta get them to see who you actually are, right, yep? So we manipulate. You're going on into high school and you're trying to be a good kid because you got caught lying when you were 13. Did you behave pretty well?
Speaker 2:Nope, To an extent, yes, Like I knew. Definitely I don't know why, but I had things that I was like I'm not gonna do this, I might do that if I, you know, get to that place.
Speaker 1:The stars. What were the might do's?
Speaker 2:I mean, it all was like relationship stuff, so like I might go past the boundary that my parents want for me if I like that boy enough or whatever, which thankfully never happened. Thankfully, I have super embarrassing stories of just like how sheltered I was. I had no idea about the opposite sex at all.
Speaker 1:Innocence is good.
Speaker 2:It's also really embarrassing, but it's really.
Speaker 1:Why is it so embarrassing?
Speaker 2:It's good because nothing happened, I was protected, but also embarrassing in the sense of like I just didn't know anything Like. One time, a kid asked me for pictures and I literally just sent him a picture of me in like shorts and a t-shirt, and I was like hey. And he was like that's not what I mean. I'm like, isn't it? You asked for a picture Like this is what I'm wearing. That's not what he meant, though he didn't mean those pictures.
Speaker 1:Okay, you think that's embarrassing. I see that is so sweet. Yeah, I just see that as endearing.
Speaker 2:Now it's nice. Then it wasn't, because then the next day it was like she doesn't know what that means. And you know I got called, approved a lot, but I just I didn't know. And I saw my friends in relationships with boys and doing things and I was like they're a mess, like they're hurting. And then I met my husband so then everything changed.
Speaker 1:All right, okay, but before we get to that, what were the non-negotiables like these are? I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2:Sex. I don't know why, it's just. And my parents weren't like. We weren't like I said, we weren't religious. We had started going to a church. I should back up a little bit. We started going to a church when I was in middle school, going into high school, that my dad got delivered from his drug addiction and so we were like we were in it. And there's this whole purity culture. At the time the Jonas brothers were doing it. I think everyone was doing it.
Speaker 1:And if the Jonas brothers are doing it, that's a lot of people doing it.
Speaker 2:They had their purity rings and my parents are like, ooh, my mom's, this is for you. I don't think they ever really gave me a sex talk. They just said, hey, just don't do it until you're married. And I was like, fair enough, okay.
Speaker 1:And I had my-. What about drugs and alcohol? Was that a thing that you were like nah, I'm not doing that? Were you like, maybe.
Speaker 2:Like the taste of alcohol. My parents there was always alcohol in the home because they were young when they had us, so they had their wild years as well. But I didn't like the taste of it. And then drugs. No, like I never, I never thought of touching drugs, ever. I just saw, like, what my dad went through and I was like, nah, I'm good, I didn't even know. I didn't even know much about drugs, except there, that's it.
Speaker 1:I think that innocence is a thing that we should like. You have four kids to keep them as innocent as they are for as long as you can. I think that's a good thing. I think they should learn things from you. I want to teach my kids. I don't want the cousins or the school to teach my kids. I want to teach my kids. But that innocence, I think, is just. It's sweet and it's precious, and once it's gone, it's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I had a purity card that I took a vow of purity, which was actually that was a real turning point for me was when I started to actually get involved in the youth at church. Except for a long time I didn't want to go because I'm like these kids are lame. I want to be in high school with all my friends. But then freshman year I was wilding. I was trying to get with like all the guys, and not even I knew I wasn't going to ever have sex or do stuff like that, like I didn't want to do those things, but I still wanted the attention of all those people.
Speaker 1:That's a tough, that's a tough place to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, because it only gets you so far. And then they're like, nah, you're not going to do anything than nah, nah, and so then it's just on the next side. I was always talking to multiple guys at the same time, that way, as soon as one of them was like, oh, you're not going to, I'd be like nah. Then there was another one right there ready to go.
Speaker 1:Convenient.
Speaker 2:Except when you get them mixed up and then it's a mess. Then you're just in a did that happen. Yes, it did, and with the two people that I would never want it to happen with it, it did, and it cost the whole thing and I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I need to be careful, that's what I need to be.
Speaker 1:And then you went to Bob Evans, and you're, this one over here is a two-timer.
Speaker 2:Right, Grandpa? No, I never. I don't think I ever told any of my family anything from my high school years Nothing. Because I'm like the things that I would do, like I was ashamed, especially that instance, like I was so ashamed that I had hurt one of these people that I was actually really close with, like their friend, and I'm like oh, no, that's dirty, that's just, that's not okay. So I felt really bad when that happened. But then, thankfully, saw my friends go through some things and I was like, oh gosh, like relationships are just messy. They're just like everyone's getting hurt and it's. We're too young, we're 15. We're too young for all this kind of drama. And so I was like I'm just not gonna. I'm just not gonna date, I'm not gonna talk to any guys. Freshman year I was talking to all the guys and I went into sophomore year. Maybe I shouldn't. It's just. I was feeling all of the things I was like a roller coaster of just wanting everyone to like me and then just not wanting anyone to talk to me. So I just was like I'm not gonna date. Sophomore year I didn't date anybody.
Speaker 1:And that's when. How'd that go Then for the rest of high school? Did you, were you able to keep that mindset?
Speaker 2:No, no, because I sophomore year. I was in high school and that's when I did like the whole purity thing and I started getting more involved with friends at church and I was like you know, I think I just want to be homeschool junior year because I think sophomore year, going into junior year, is when I went to my first church camp and I didn't want to go. I wasn't signed up to go, but the week before I went I got drunk with my friends. Now, there was only the three of us. It was like just us girls, super safe. But I felt so bad because her mom was sick, so she took some Nyquil and we just I I destroyed the place. I threw up everywhere Because we were like drinking Mike's heart or lemonade with Red Bull and Dr Pepper. So I think it was like the sugar more than anything. Yeah, I don't, because I didn't like the taste of alcohol. So I was like take a drink and then take a drink of that. It was gross. But my parents, my mom, was so mad and she was like you cannot be. I think she was scared for me for whatever reason. I don't know why. This is my first time ever doing anything like that, but she's here going to church camp. So I went to church camp and for the first time ever I encountered God there.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at camp it was amazing and I was thinking about it, this, I could actually feel the presence of God for myself and I was like, man, this is good, I like this. And I came back and got super involved in church and told my mom is like, I don't want to, I want to go back to that old lifestyle of being in school, being around all that Because I wasn't in school for school anyways, it was like passing. Basically I was just there to hang out with friends, like I just I.
Speaker 1:What did you want to do with your life?
Speaker 2:Literally I hadn't thought about it. The most I thought about it was I wanted to go to Kentucky University for cheerleading and then like, maybe get a nursing degree in Mary, somebody have a fit like that's all I thought of that's so you're talking about, like the University of Kentucky in Lexington.
Speaker 1:That's where you wanted to go, like the big school, and you wanted to be on the cheerleading team and get married.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's hashtag goals.
Speaker 2:That was it, and I didn't even like cheerleading that much.
Speaker 1:Were you good at it, were you good at cheerleading.
Speaker 2:I was seen in cheerleading. I was a flyer so I was at the top of the pyramid like doing all the stunts and stuff. So I just felt seen and noticed. I didn't really like cheerleading.
Speaker 1:You were just tiny enough to be at the top of everything and thrown around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the guys were always there, right, because you cheer.
Speaker 1:Football games, basketball games yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was great it worked out. But no, I didn't want to do that. So I went to homeschooling, graduated early because I realized I was only like two credits shy of graduating my junior year. So I was like, oh shoot, let's knock it out, let's do it. That's when I also started dating Adam.
Speaker 1:Well, you did your junior and senior year in one year.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had to do two mass economics and history, like I had to do just like double of a couple of things.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, and you graduated and you met Adam. Where'd you meet this guy?
Speaker 2:I met Adam at church actually on the bus home from church camp that first year he swapped seats with Braden's little sister, brooke. Yeah, it all connects, and so knew from then that he was like I'm going to marry her and I had after you said, after she sat next to you in the bus.
Speaker 1:After he sat there, she let me sit next to her.
Speaker 2:I was asleep. Hold on, I was asleep. I didn't even know he was there until I woke up and I was like where's Brooke? She was in the seat next to him.
Speaker 1:He's just what's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally, and I'm like Adam, no bro. Yeah. So we got back and so this would have been going into my junior year. We got back and like within, so that was like June. By the end of August we were dating, but we weren't allowed to say we were dating because we were only 16. So it was like a court courtship.
Speaker 1:Sure yeah, when were you? When could you say you were dating? How old.
Speaker 2:We had to give it a year, so I'm like our one year anniversary. We changed our Facebook status to in a relationship.
Speaker 1:That was a big deal.
Speaker 2:It was a huge deal because, for one, I had never, ever, liked a guy for longer than a few weeks and I was like, for whatever reason, obsessed with this guy, and I'm like it doesn't even make sense. It didn't make sense. My family was like are you sure?
Speaker 1:And I'm like people don't remember what life was like at the turn of the century, when you made it Facebook official. You were in it, it was a big deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like serious this is probably a little later than 2000.
Speaker 1:This is probably like 2000,. What 10? More three, five, 10. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you are not as old as me, like for me it was more like my space. So 2010, that was prime Facebook time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone would have known it. It was a big deal, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you guys were official and you guys really loved each other. How was that going?
Speaker 2:It was messy. It was so messy because we you're 16. So you don't really know how to love. I can't even say that we were. I wasn't in love with him. I was in a whole other thing. I would say I loved him, but that's. It was just emotions. A lot of emotions. A lot of boundaries that I didn't want to cross even before, like really being involved in church, were crossed and I definitely I don't know why I was just obsessed with him. I would tell him all the time I'm obsessed with you, I was idolizing this guy like no other and I would do anything he asked to keep him happy so that he would still be with me. I kept. I told him all the time I don't deserve you, you're too good for me. And I think it just stemmed from. This was like a church kid and the boys at my church at the time were very much God loving, all about Jesus. They just were different, which is why I didn't want to be there years previous. But they were just different from the boys that I was used to, where it was like I don't know they, there was no God. So it was just easier. But now with Adam, I just felt like I had to measure up and I'm like I am like so new at this and you're been in it your whole life. I don't know, I'm not that girl and I don't know how to get there, but I'm going to try really hard but I just didn't feel like I deserved him, like he was too good for me.
Speaker 1:I don't know how. I think I know how the story ends. I don't know the middle of the story, but I don't think this is going to go well, putting him on this kind of pedestal.
Speaker 2:No, and he did not ask to be put there either.
Speaker 1:It was all me in my head. But if someone's worshiping you that way, it has to feel pretty good. Oh, I'm so, even if you know it's not great.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Feels pretty good oh.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it did. Yeah, yeah, it was messy. It was. There's a lady in Canada with some pictures of me and not wearing shorts and a t-shirt. It's just. It got really.
Speaker 1:Wait, hold up A lady in Canada. How does this work?
Speaker 2:Okay, he asked for pictures. I sent them, but I sent them to the wrong number and I was like, oh my God, because I'm like, did you get them? And he was like, no, I didn't. And I'm like, what, you should have gotten them. I sent them a while ago because I was like, why isn't he saying anything? He doesn't like them, like what the heck? And I'm like, oh my gosh, I sent them to this number and you need to call them right now and you need to say something, I don't know. Just tell them to get rid of them, or something.
Speaker 1:And did that person text you back? Hi, my name is Francis and I live in Ontario. What would you like me to do with these photos?
Speaker 2:No, it was a, it was an old lady, Adam called her. It was like my sister sent some pictures by mistake I'm just wondering if you could get rid of them. And she chewed them out like any good old lady in Canada would any old lady and was like she really shouldn't be doing that and I think she got rid of them. But I was like, oh my gosh that is hilarious. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So did that teach you your lesson?
Speaker 2:You would think but it went through this vicious cycle. Because we were doing these things, we would feel especially like because we were in church at this time and we were going and we were involved, and we would go through these cycles where it was like we're doing these things and like it fell out of control, and then we'd be like, okay, we really need to stop. And so then one of us would be like, let's stop. And then it just left the other person feeling like, oh, you don't, like you don't want that anymore, like you don't want me anymore, and then we would start again. And then somebody would be like, I think we really need to not do this. And then it was just be like it would only last a few days. There was no.
Speaker 1:I think what's the saddest thing about this is that this is everyone's story, like when people listen to the Death of Life podcast and they're just like I resonated with so much because the lies are all the same, the temptations are all the same. I can tell you from the most pious pastor friend that I have to the kid who they all have this similar experience. Even they don't know how to get out of it. They know they're not doing right, but then they get caught up and it's like what are you gonna do? Break up? You can't break up.
Speaker 2:No. So you get married at 19,. That's what you do. You don't have to do that, but that's what you guys did. That's what we did. We sure did. We both knew that we wanted to spend our lives with each other and so we got engaged when I was 18 and we got married when I had turned 19. So we were both 19 and we get married, and it's okay. Now we can do these things without the shame and guilt that we were feeling before, and life will be great and we'll just go into it and it'll be perfect. And then it just wasn't. It wasn't, if anything. It was like you're married and now it's like why do I still feel the way that I felt before we got married?
Speaker 1:It still wasn't. So you still felt like that sex had become a thing that was dirty like. It wasn't like a beautiful intimate thing, it was more like-.
Speaker 2:No, it didn't feel intimate. It just felt like something that we did for pleasure but not for intimacy, if that makes sense, it's just like oh it makes complete sense. Okay good. So yeah, now we're married and we went through this whole thing where we're like we don't need to go to church, We'll just do our own church at home, and I started that with our friends, burdened and sprained, and we would just we would read the Bible and then be super critical of everything everyone and that was it for a while Got back into church and started going to multiple churches at the same time, helping, though we helped.
Speaker 1:What do you think you were searching for?
Speaker 2:I think I was just searching for the right kind of God, honestly, like the right fit of what I wanted God to be, because I had no clue who God was. And we went to a place where it was all about grace and that felt good for the flesh. That was a really great place. Because then it was like, doesn't matter how much wrong I do, like it's still covered by the blood, so we're good, we're cool, we can just keep on keeping on. And then the only other place that I really heard anything different was what we can get if we put our faith to work, what we can get from God. And so both of those places were not it. So it ended up being this you know life and circumstances and children and marriage. It was this idea that God was supposed to give me all of my desires and meet all of my needs. And if he wasn't doing that, then there was something wrong with me and there was some kind of deficiency with my faith and it just left me super disappointed like crazy. Disappointed in life and God and family and marriage, all of it.
Speaker 1:So it went from wanting to get married. Marriage will solve your problems. You get married. It doesn't really solve your problems. But now you're looking sincerely, but it doesn't seem like you're finding what you want.
Speaker 2:No, yeah.
Speaker 1:And now you have a bunch of kids. How soon did you start having kids?
Speaker 2:We got pregnant nine months after getting married and Adam was like I think we should wait longer and I was like no, because his siblings were married and they were the only married people we knew at the time, because we got married so young, so none of our friends were married yet. I was like no, I want to have a baby and really that's like even further back. Having a family, being a mom was always the thing that I wanted to do. It's the thing that I felt good at. I was a babysitter all the time. I was grilled with kids and so I was like I want a baby. I really want a baby. I want to be pregnant. So I get pregnant. We have Finley early. We go into preterm labor at 32 weeks.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was crazy because I had no idea what was happening. And I'm in labor at my parents' house and I'm like man, I just my mom gets Braxton Hicks, it's too early, so it's just Braxton Hicks and I'm like on the ground sweating. Good Lord, if this is Braxton Hicks and you say I still have a month left, that's insane. And then I had her like a few hours later and, the most crazy way, my brother-in-law carried me in and my water had broken, adam's brand new car and he's like running into the emergency room at midnight yelling she's crowning, and it was just like it was chaos and Finley was breached and then we delivered her with- so she wasn't crowning then. No, it was her. Boom, they rushed me into the OR thinking they had to do a C-section, but we ended up delivering her and she spent three weeks in NICU and so that happened. I'm like man. That was wild. Not at all what I was expecting my first pregnancy to be like my first delivery. So I was already disappointed, because I'm like man. I had to go three weeks and, of course, I get discharged to go home on Christmas Eve, which did not help. And the crazy thing was is like right after I had her, I was so excited because I wasn't pregnant anymore. I hated being pregnant. It was very uncomfortable and I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm so excited she's here and she's so cute and tiny. She was three pounds, so she's so little and I'm 20. So I'm like I have no clue what's going on. And then they're like, all right, you need to, we're gonna discharge you now and she's gonna stay here. And I was like what? And so I just sobbed for two days and I was like, all right, you need to pick yourself up. And God's got her, she's gonna be fine, she's healthy, and we go home and I make this whiteboard of like all the things that she needs to do and I'm like God, you're faithful that she will do this and this. And then I think that was like the first time where I was like really really had to go to God with something because it was out of my control. I'm like she's in there and I'm over here. Either I can go to him and get comfort and pray and believe that everything's gonna go well and she's gonna be healthy and fine. And that's what happened. She was. She just needed time to grow. She got bigger and came home three weeks later. It was good, Life was good. I felt like that took me closer to God. It's like now I had something where I'm like he was faithful in this, so that kind of pushed me towards having a relationship with him for the first time, I'd say. And then just life, life, crazy things. And I get pregnant again six months later unexpectedly with Eleanor, and I'm like, good Lord, I remember having choice words for that one and being so scared to tell Adam and he was so excited that it made me angry, because I'm like don't you remember? Like we have a six month old and we just went through all this six months ago and it was insane, it was crazy and he was just like it's gonna be great Ended up having her early, at 32 weeks, literally just repeated the same thing over again. I handled it a lot better because I knew what to expect, having just done it a year previous. They were born a year and 12 days apart, so I just did this.
Speaker 1:That's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm like I know what to do at least. And she was an easy baby, super great, and so I'm like, okay, then we get pregnant again with Harrison.
Speaker 1:And I have, how long after that, how long between that one.
Speaker 2:I think there's a year between them, A year and a half, I don't know. I was pregnant for five years, basically what I remember, and so I have him at full term. Technically, I have him at 37 weeks and he has to spend time in the hospital because his lungs and he had to get a chest tube and all the things. But he was only in there for 12 days. So it was like, okay, that's not bad. But when we get pregnant with Jude is when I'm like, okay, I'm going to really have the pregnancy that I want, I'm going to have the labor and delivery that I want. I want to actually hold my baby when he comes into the world. I'm going to do all the things. Right, I'm going to, we're going to do this. We're going to go all the way, have a normal delivery, he's going to come home, and so my whole pregnancy. I have all these scriptures everywhere right, I'm facing this thing out, I'm speaking it into existence, all the things. And I remember it was my 35 week checkup and I go in and she's you are five centimeters dilated, Are you feeling? Okay? And I was like I'm a little uncomfortable but I'm fine. And she's you're having contractions. They hooked me up to the monitor, Are you okay? And I'm like I'm fine, I'm good, she's I'm going to send you to the hospital and get a steroid shot for his lungs. We'll see what happens. And I go to the hospital, which was like right down the road, and I get my shot and then I go back to work. So I'm like I'm good. Contractions start coming and they're like are you all right? And I'm like I'm fine, I'm good, I'm good. I tell Adam can you come home early tonight from work? Is there any way you can get off early? He's what's going on? I'm like yeah, I saw my OB. I tell him what's happening. He's you need to go to the hospital. And I'm like no, I'm good, I'm going to go home, I'm going to see the kids and I go home and he's there and he's like all right, let's go. And I'm like no, it's not time yet. We're good. I go into the hospital and she's okay, you're like fully effaced, You're ready to go.
Speaker 1:And I'm like no, and I'm like gosh and I remember like no one's listening to you.
Speaker 2:Right. I remember her like telling me that I was like fully effaced and being like it was like a punch in the gut. I'm like, oh my gosh, like no way I was supposed to have the full term delivery not here, not at this hospital, not here, not now. No, this isn't, it's not happening, but it happened. He came into the world a few hours later and was healthy and fine, but he spent 41 days in the NICU and that was like the first time that I was like I am angry right now. I'm so mad at God, I'm so mad at my body and myself, like, why can't I, why isn't my body doing what it's supposed to be doing? For one, that's stupid. And then, two, this whole faith thing is stupid, because here I am, speaking scriptures every day and praying every day and doing all the things that I thought I should be doing, and I'm still without a baby, with three kids at home and a baby in Columbus. Like I was so mad and Adam did not. He didn't get it and he wasn't. He like wasn't helpful at all, and I'm like I am angry and he's. You can't be angry with God, and I'm like, but I am angry with God and you saying that makes me angry with you, because you don't understand what I am feeling. You're not even allowing me to say what I'm feeling. You're just saying that I shouldn't be feeling this way, but I am. So what am I supposed to do with this? And I was really mad for a long time. I was so disappointed. I just though I think I made an Instagram post about the weight of disappointment and how horrible it is and the thief of joy, comparison and all this stuff. I was just so mad that here I am again, and this time I did all the things and it still didn't happen. So, like, where was he at? That was like my question. And yeah, just craziness.
Speaker 1:We Four kids in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And life is not what you thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:And now God's disappointed you.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, and Jude comes home and Adam's, I think we should move to South Carolina and I'm like, yeah, I think a change of scenery and a change of pace would be nice, and this whole time I'm like there was glimmers of I know I shouldn't be mad at God, I know that's wrong and I know that like he's supposed to be good, so clearly there is something very wrong with me. So I went in and was trying so hard to be good so that I could feel good again. So we moved to South Carolina and we were only there six months but we like dove into like home groups in a church there and I was like this is really cool, but Adam didn't like it and he wanted to move back home. So we moved back and it's 2020 and the world has gone crazy, and so we are living with my parents and all the jobs that he was supposed to get. Everyone would on like a hiring freeze, so nobody was hiring and we were just left with our four young kids. Jude had just turned one, I think. Finley had just turned five, so ages five, four, two and one I think of where the ages? Somewhere in there. Yeah, and we're left on my parents and I'm like, okay, what are we going to do? We're listening to all these teachers, teachers of the word of faith, type stuff, which is what we're used to. They're like you need to put your vision out there, you need to sow your seed financially so that you can reap financially. We're like, okay, let's do it. What else do we have to lose? We're going really hard into faithing for things Did you start getting all the stuff, that'll work. No more disappointment, because I'm like gosh, they get this GNA doing nothing, but we are doing all the things and the whole time the tension at my parents' house is getting worse because we're there with our four kids and Adam's not working, I'm not working and then we're going back and forth, because we were always told if God gave you a word, you needed to stand on it and not move from it, because if you moved from it, then you weren't in faith and I was like heaven forbid we not be in faith, because then we won't get what we're believing for. So I'm like let's just, we're going to stand on this. I was like I think I need to start my own business. He's like the Chandler being in the family. Nobody really knows what he does. It's just in finance. It's literally. People ask me all the time.
Speaker 1:He's looking at the weaness. Yeah, literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1:If you don't understand, that's a friend's joke. Sorry, that's not actually what it sounds like.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So he's doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's doing that and he starts getting in assets and bonds and trading and all this stuff and a lot of it. It's legit, but if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is too good to be true. So we're doing all these things and it's oh, this is going to close and then we're going to get paid like this much, millions of dollars because this is going to close. Stuff like in the millions is what we're being told, and we're like, yes, that answers everything. All our problems will be solved. And so we're going through this whole process and every week something is supposed to close and then it gets postponed or it doesn't happen or somebody changes their mind, and it's like a whole year of this and not seeing a single penny a whole year. And so I'm like this is a lot of tension between us because we have four kids and we have no income my parents, each other. I'm like what are we doing? We can't just sit back and wait for things to happen. God, I'm like where's he at? He's just watching all of this. If he really wants to give me all my desires, I have lots of desires and I'm not seeing any of them being met. And so by the end of the year, I'm like I don't know if God's real. I don't know if this whole thing is legit with being a Christian. I don't know if and I were at the point where we're screaming at each other and we clearly weren't being people that we wanted to be, we weren't being loving to our children, we weren't being present with our children, we weren't being a light to anybody and it was horrible. And I was so disappointed in him and in God and myself that I'm like this is just like. The thoughts that I had were overwhelming of just like my life was miserable. It was horrible. I hated every minute of being awake. All I wanted to do was go to sleep and just never wake up and I was like I'm not going to separate. He's going to go stay with his dad. I'm going to stay here with my kids and I had a whole plan if that was to happen. I'm like I will go back to school, because I was a medical assistant. So I'm like I'll go back to school, I'll get my RN, I'll take care of my family. He can do what he wants. I want nothing to do with him. He's not helping me in any way anyway. So just remove him and that should fix part of my problem. And I was like I'll just do that. And then the other side of it was I felt so anxious and in fear all the time and fear and irrational fears or like my kids, something happening to them, like I wouldn't be able to handle it. I always had this thought like if any of them got cancer I would not be able to handle it, I would not be able to be in any way good for them at all, I would be a mess. And then it's just overwhelming thoughts of just not wanting to live anymore. I just hated everything about everything and everyone in life itself, which was, I think the reason I even hated it even more is because it was so far from who I was before, like from my youth, like I was always so happy and so joyful and the peacemaker and everyone loved me and life was fun. And then the older I got, just, and by that point I just hated myself. I'm like I hate this life, this person.
Speaker 1:Fix it, jesus. So this disappointment with Adam? It was just because he hadn't shown up financially. What was the agreement on why the separation was going to take place? It was just like we're not getting along because life sucks.
Speaker 2:Because I'm like we need to work and he was like no, we need to see this through. I'm like you're being crazy because we've been doing this for a year and nothing's happened. But then it was also just because he was home in the house 24 seven with me for the first time in our married life with our four kids. I'm like he didn't handle them how I wanted him to handle them. I was very laid back with them and chilled, whereas he was very much just no, you need to discipline them. They can't be acting like that. And I'm like, yeah, no, like I know, so like just him being around all the time and being there and there's like nowhere to go to escape it. And him and my dad weren't getting along, because my dad always raised me with the see, you need fill in, need, if you need money, go make money kind of thing. And that's. I've been working since I was like 13 and jobs, like it was just something you always did. And here is my husband, who's supposed to be the provider of the family, isn't working a job, he's working his business, but it wasn't making any money. My dad was upset and I'm a daddy's girl, so I'm like if my dad's mad, then I'm going to judge you the same way that he's judging you. But I also felt like I needed to defend him to my dad, and so then that put me in a weird spot with my parents. It was just so much tension. I think my sister was also living there at the time. So there was me, my sister Adam, my parents and our four kids in their house, which is a one story. It's a ranch, it's not big, it's 2020. You can't go anywhere, so just this sounds awesome. It was so much fun. There was a lot of wine that year. I actually that was probably the most I've ever drank my whole life. It's just a lot of wine to try to, I think.
Speaker 1:Did that provide answers for you?
Speaker 2:It provided some escape. For a minute. It felt like we were all getting along when we were drinking, playing yuker, having a good time. But it's also hard when you're living with people, because they see everything and there's no hiding your parenting. There's no hiding anything in your marriage. There's no hiding the tensions now between family members. It's all there. And if there is a problem, if there's a problem in your marriage before you live with someone, living with people will just magnify it on a much larger scale of crap.
Speaker 1:So what did the manipulation then come into play?
Speaker 2:Because so my parents are upset with Adam and I'm like I'm going to be perfect then. So that way, if anything comes back, it's going to be not on me. I'm just going to, I'm going to play both sides and I'm going to keep my kids as perfect as I can make them, which was so hard because they're so young and I'm like there will be no crying, there will be no fighting, there will be no crying.
Speaker 1:Jude, I know you're one year old, but cut it out. My man no more crying.
Speaker 2:I don't think he. I kept him pretty, he was attached at the hip and people are like that is a serious problem later on and I'm like you don't understand If my dad heard them crying, it would set him on edge. And I'm like I can't deal with my dad being on edge. We grew up in our home, even when I was a kid, where it was like don't wake daddy, Don't do anything that will set him off, because when he goes off someone's going to get hurt, and not in the fun kind of way, it was in this scary calling the cops way. So I'm like now I'm here with my kids and I'm like I don't want them to see that side of their grandpa at all. So, keeping them very calm, trying to hide the fractures in my marriage with Adam, you know, just cleaning everything, making sure everything's perfect, Look like nobody freaking lived there, so that way they can't say that we're messy or that our kids are doing messes places. I just kept everything as perfect as I could keep it, which was very stressful in that environment and really hard, which put that much more stress on Adam, because then there was no intimacy I didn't even want. I'm like I'm so tired. We have a kid in our room, we had a baby in our room with us. I'm like I don't want to do it like now. So there was that, there was that there was no money, there was tension in the family trying to keep everybody under control, and I felt like I had to do all that so that nothing could be said bad about me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds pretty. This is terrible.
Speaker 2:It was horrible, so bad.
Speaker 1:And so you're starting to feel like you don't want to wake up.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, there is no part of me that wanted any part of life anymore. I was like I'm so done, but it was like it hasn't been like a tormenting thought, honestly, because it was constant. There was no relief from that thought. There was just like moments where I chose to think about something else. That thought was always present by that point.
Speaker 1:Did anybody know about it?
Speaker 2:no-transcript. No, because you didn't. We were supposed to be Christians, so you didn't want people to know your mess. You didn't, because then you didn't believe in God or you weren't a good Christian and we were doing all the things we should have been doing to be good Christians or at least look like good Christians. So, yeah, no, I didn't tell anyone any of that. We even knew anything about our lives. We kept all that very tucked away and I was serving on the praise and worship team, so I was up there having a good time and, honestly, that was the best time, because it was like 20 minutes of I just get to sit in this spot, of just this singing about God for 20 minutes, and then I would walk off and the chaos of my mind would start up again and I just repeat every week with no relief. And so by the end of 2020, adam and I were like it's better at this point for everyone if Adam goes and stays with his dad, if we just separate, and if I'm like I should, just that's just. That thought was always there and I'm like I could do it this way. I could try to end my life this way. And then I'm like thinking about life insurance because we kept that up, we kept our van and we kept life insurance the whole time. That year Lost everything else. Our storage unit with all of our stuff from when we moved lost that, like our cell phones. We didn't have cell phones because obviously we couldn't pay our phone plans, so that got shut off. But we kept it up to where no one really knew that, because we were in Wi-Fi and I could still text all the people that I normally would talk to in Wi-Fi. So no one knew any of that.
Speaker 1:What about your kids? Would you consider your kids if you were going to hurt yourself?
Speaker 2:No, I thought that they would be better off. Honestly, they don't need this mess. I was crying all the time. I didn't want to get up. I didn't want to do anything, I was just. I was like I'm.
Speaker 1:Did you tell Adam that you were thinking of a plan?
Speaker 2:No, and I felt I too, I they, I wasn't being a good mom and all I ever wanted to really be was a mom. I wasn't being a good mom, I was lashing out. They're little kids. I would freak out because I'm trying to keep everybody perfect and they would do something or fight with each other and I'm freaking out and lashing out at them. I just know, adam didn't know, I didn't tell him that until later on, but I mean he knew things weren't okay with me mentally at that point. Yeah, the whole.
Speaker 1:So did you ever get to a day where you were like, yeah, I'm going to do it, or that day was just always a few days away?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was always tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Praise God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got to a day where I was like I'm going to do it, this is it. It's happening. It was always tomorrow, I think. There was that part of me, that, and I always heard that people who take their own lives don't go to heaven. So then that fear of hell really kicked in there and I was like what's happening? But then I was like I don't know, is there heaven, is there hell? I don't know. I just don't want to be here. This is hell on earth.
Speaker 1:So what happened?
Speaker 2:Honestly. We get to December 31st, we're going into a new year. Adam and I have this tradition of being good Christians and seeking the Lord on that day of what he wants us to do with the next year, because everything we did this year was so great for the Lord, so, like, what can we do for you next year? Or what can he do for us really? And I really just felt like the Holy Spirit was like give me, like read the Word, like go to my Word, shut everything else off. And I was like the thought of just reading the Bible stuck out to me so much that I was like I'm going to read my Bible starting January 1st. I'm going to read it every day and I'm like a very disciplined person. So if I have a goal or if I like set my mind to something, I'm going to do it, whether I really want to do it or not. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to do that. And started reading the Bible. And I was like if I'm going to read the Bible, I might as well be intentional about reading it or like at least making sure I'm getting something from it. So I got a journal and within the first four months of the year I went through a whole journal of what I was reading and it was such a life giving thing. I had no idea that reading the Bible could be life giving, because anytime I would read it before I would just go to it out of desperation. And if I read my Bible and I say my prayers, then God's going to answer my list of demands that I'm asking. And so I would read it before trying to get something from him. And this time I was reading it and he was just giving things to me. I would read it in the parable of the sower and I'm like wow, from this it sounds like it's talking about the word and I was always told that was money. So I was like confused. I'm like hold on, let me see what else it says. And so I'm reading all of this. In that time it becomes a very intimate thing very quickly. I think because I was so desperate for something good that in just reading the Bible, good things were happening. My attitude and my behaviors were changing and I wasn't changing them. I don't think I was intentionally doing that. I think it was just in sowing the word in my heart, the Holy Spirit was changing my behaviors. And it wasn't until my mom had said something like, wow, you are such a peaceful person. And I'm like, no, I'm not. If you knew my mind, you would know that I'm not a peaceful person. And I was like, but wait, you're right, I actually it is calm, which was for the first time in nine years that there was like calm in my mind. And I'm like, well, things are changing. And Adam and I had made the decision that we weren't going to listen to any kind of teaching or pastors, because of previous we were listening to everyone, just clinging for some kind of hope from somebody that things would get better, and if we did what somebody was saying, maybe it would. So we weren't listening to anybody, so it was just me and the word and the Holy Spirit and Savannah had reached out. And this is October. So I, 10 months in, I'm starting a Bible study for girls Do you want to come? And I'm like I so desperately want somebody that I can read with. That would be amazing. So I show up and it's just me and my sister and Savannah, and I think we started in Ephesians. I thought it was Galatians, but I think it was Ephesians, and it keeps talking about your old nature and putting on your new nature, which is holy and righteous. And I'm like what is that? What is that talking about? What does that mean?
Speaker 1:And so, did Savannah seem like she knew what it meant? Yeah, no, savannah was on it, she was you felt really safe and comfortable, like she's going to be able to guide this thing through.
Speaker 2:Because, to be honest, savannah and I had known her since she was like 15, 14, 15. They were like our spiritual friends, even in her, even in Old Savannah, she was the go-to person that had the answers and could encourage you in the Lord, even before freedom. Because I'm like you're in the same boat. What are you doing? How's your purity coming? Like you know, those were our pals. But this was different because it was the word. It wasn't like her just giving some cliche Christian thing to me to make me feel better. It was like we're just reading the word and somehow we're in agreement of what it means, which was like I've never seen that before. So we're reading it and she's talking to me about do you know about Adam one, adam two. I'm like, no, tell me what's up. What's up with Adam one, adam two? I don't know. That's so sweet, yeah. And then she does like the bride and being married to the first husband, all the things that I'm like that makes a lot of sense. You're making sense right now and we're reading it. So it's saying it and you're like it makes sense and the bride does the cups. And at this point I had been reading but I was still dealing with a lot of anxiety and I could feel it coming on and I'd be like, don't get anxious. And the more you tell yourself not to do something, it just keeps getting bigger and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm going to die right in this moment. But he does the cups and he gets to this part where it got in the garden, tells them who told you. And he was like who's telling you these lies? And I'm like, oh my gosh. Immediately the light bulb went off, that like all the thoughts in my mind, if it's saying something contrary to what the Bible is saying, then there lies and I was like, oh my gosh, what an idiot I've been believing all these lies about myself. And I'm like that is just. My mind was like boggled. I'm like what do you mean?
Speaker 1:So this was like pretty like how many Bible studies in. Are you like getting this revelation?
Speaker 2:Four, I don't know wasn't many, it's like literally wasn't many. And that's thought I felt like I had control again. Because here they're, like it's just lies and like I can. I am not going to allow myself to believe something that's a lie. And so I'm like I can. Yeah, I can fix that. And so anytime I would start to feel anxious for a few weeks after that, I think it wasn't long after that, but anytime I would start to feel like the here's anxiety coming on and all of the feelings and emotions that come with it I would just say no and I would just walk around and say no, like anytime there was any kind of lie popping up in my mind.
Speaker 1:You're like nah yeah walking around your house.
Speaker 2:Literally. My daughter at the time was like five and she would just walk around saying no, like just mimicking me, because I'm like no, not happening and you would literally walk around your house saying no out loud. I looked like a crazy person, yes, but it was better than being curled up in a ball somewhere. So I'm like, yeah, no, that's not, I'm not going to allow myself to even go there. That's not for me anymore. That's not me. And a couple of weeks in and through this whole year leading up to Abni, obviously are still together. There was a lot of the word I had going into that year was restoration. I was hoping, like financial, but that didn't happen. But there was a restoration of relationships, like me, with God, adam and I. It was beautiful. The transformation from 2020 to 2021 was God. No other explanation. So, yeah, he does that. And I realized, after a few weeks of my saying no, that my friend texted me and was like what are you doing for your anxiety? What oil are you using? What supplements are you taking? What mantras are you saying? What are you doing? And I was like, actually I'm not. Jesus is the only thing that I can tell you, because I don't do any of those things anymore.
Speaker 1:And had you made a practice of doing a bunch of that?
Speaker 2:stuff for your anxiety.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah Was it effective in any way, or did it give a little bit of?
Speaker 2:I liked to think that it helped, but it didn't actually help. It didn't help me. I liked to think that it did. If I take this oil, then I'm not going to get anxious, but the feeling was always there of being anxious, just super high strung anxious. If something would happen, I would go off. Yeah, I texted her and I was like no, I'm not doing any of that, like just Jesus, and she's let me, I need to talk to you. And so we meet her the next day at the park and I'm like listen, none of that is who you are in Christ. And just what do you mean? I'm like that's. We don't live by our feelings and by these lies anymore. We are new creations. Our old self is gone and we've been made new. So that stuff isn't for us. And she was like what? And I'm like right, literally right. I didn't know either, man. And so we talk for a long time. And I said I'm like man, you got to talk to her. I'm like fresh into this, I don't know what I'm saying, and but it's just, it grew from there.
Speaker 1:I was like man. You were passionate about it, though Like she could see your passion.
Speaker 2:Yes, I told everyone all the time and I remember. I look back now and I'm like, ooh, my heart was in the right place, but I was also a little too eager.
Speaker 1:But how can you help it if you're gone?
Speaker 2:Like from yeah it was good news. I told everybody all the time and it was like all I talked about I'm like Jesus, it's real, he works. I was shocked and my parents saw this transformation happen and they're like man, what's going on? And I'm like the Lord and they're like, yeah, but you were Christians before and I'm like, no, I wasn't it for me, like I wasn't a Christian, I was too self-centered to be Christ centered. No way, that was not it. And then there's always the if that wasn't it, then what are we doing? I just I'm like I was so selfish and how I lived my life before, it was so self-centered. It was all about me. Even when I made it about other people, it was still about me. I'm going to push you up so that you can pull me up with you, and even my relationship with God. It was just going to him to get what I wanted and what I needed or thought I needed. But then, in this understanding, I'm like his desires are my desires and I didn't even have to change that. The heart he gave me changed that and it was just. There was no more striving and working.
Speaker 1:Did Savannah and brain start explaining or maybe this was early on freedom from sin, this idea that you were free from the power of sin?
Speaker 2:They did, because I remember it hitting, because I got excited that they're like you're free from sin. I'm like what do you mean free from sin? Because I didn't know anything. And they're telling me the identity of sin and the power of sin has no claim on you. And I was like, yeah, but I wasn't really living as a Christian, so what does that mean for me? And Brayden, from the moment that you chose Christ, that stuff didn't have any hold on you. You just didn't understand that. And he's like you didn't believe it. And he is like that is no longer. You Like sin has no power over you. And I was like, yeah, you're right, that makes sense. And I was like I am free from sin. There's so much power in saying that and then believing that because, without doing anything, you just go that way. It's like before, whereas I just want to die, that's all my mind thought about. But now that I'm like I am free from sin, that's all my mind thinks about, it's all it identifies with, and I just I told everybody Okay, we're going to take a quick break from the episode and I'm going to bring on my brother, jean Bernard.
Speaker 1:You all know him on the streets as bees, what's up? Bees, what's up man, how you doing, I'm doing great. Quick question, man how long have you been rocking with Good?
Speaker 3:Gospel, I would say approximately about a year now.
Speaker 1:A year. What has Good Gospel done in your life, man? Has it made an impact?
Speaker 3:It definitely has man, and I think what it what it's done. I'll tell you how it was before. I would say I lived an incomplete, unfinished gospel, right when, yeah, I felt that I needed to grind, I needed to do. There was a lot more to do, there was a lot more effort and stuff like that. I'm sure I received the grace, but there was this kind of payback, transactional relationship that I had with God and listening to the Debt to Life podcast and hearing this Good Gospel, it's completely shifted that and it's completed that. It's completed the story of grace, it's completed the story of restoration and healing and I can now see myself the way God actually sees me, and that's what the gospel has done in my life, in this journey.
Speaker 1:If we want to hear your whole story, where should we go to hear your whole story?
Speaker 3:With pride. I am episode 98. That's me, man. I've got it on my Instagram. I've got it everywhere. I've wear it like a badge of honor. Let's go, dude.
Speaker 1:Man, you have given of your hard earned finances to keep supporting this movement, this gospel movement. Let me ask you why do you?
Speaker 3:do that Because I believe that this is such an amazing ministry, because it's about real stories, real lives, real transformation, and people need to hear those stories. People are hungry for authenticity and they want to hear people being raw and vulnerable and honest, and this is probably, for me, the best catalyst and also the best platform that achieves that. When interviews are done, people can get honest and share and celebrate what God has done in their life and I notice that there's quite a bit of death that's discussed in these journeys, but there is so much life, there's so much celebration and it brings hope, especially for people who don't know Christ but are in desperate need and want to know Him, because it shows real, authentic transformation in the lives of others.
Speaker 1:Man, that's beautiful. If you guys want to partner with us as we move this message forward, I'm going to invite you to go to loverealityorg slash give, loverealityorg slash give, and we want you to be a part of this movement as we go forward, of people receiving the truth of who they are in Jesus Christ and how that changes their lives. So, loverealityorg slash give, let's keep doing this thing. Bees man, thank you so much, my brother. Love you, man, peace.
Speaker 3:Peace.
Speaker 2:It's like before, where I just want to die. That's all my mind thought about. But now that I'm like I am free from sin, that's all my mind thinks about, it's all it identifies with, and I just I told everybody. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know what that means but we're getting there, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, what do you mean? We're getting there. What happened after that?
Speaker 2:Well. So we would tell people that you're free from sin and they're like oh yeah, I know I'm like, was I the only one who did it? Like for real. And I realized that like people associates in with, like your actions and behaviors and I'm like, but it's your identity too, because you identify a certain way you do those actions and behaviors Whereas, like now, believing that I'm a new creation in Christ, my actions and behaviors automatically line up with what I believe. So before I would say, for me, I just thought I was a sinner saved by grace. I just was a sinner in my mind and that was a lie, because I was a Christian with no understanding. And so we're, I'm like there's sin is just our self centeredness. It's the thing that kept us separated from God, which was the old identity of being self centered. We can't serve self and serve God, and I didn't know that, I had no idea of that. And so now I do know that and I tell people that all the time, like you can't live for yourself and live for Christ. They don't go together, they're going to war against each other the whole time. That's why we feel guilt and shame, even though we're Christians, and feel heavy with all the things or get disappointed or get offended or do all these things, is because we're still we're Christians, but we're living for self. We're still motivated by self, which was like that hit home for me, because I'm like I was only thinking of myself 24, seven, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:For sure. What kept growing in you? What were your eyes opening to more and more as time passed, as you're sitting in this thing?
Speaker 2:I mean, the thing that has grown me the most is reading the word and having a revelation of who God is from the word and, in turn, like it tells you who you are in him, whereas, like before, I had no idea who God was. I didn't know, and so, because I'm not knowing him, I didn't know who I was. And so I'm reading this and I'm it's transforming me and I'm like, oh my gosh, like his love is so crazy and overwhelming we can't even fully comprehend his love. But he prays that we know the depths of it and I'm like, yeah, like I'm getting there. I remember, on a way to Bible study, if having a revelation, god was like, do you realize that you love me more than you love Adam? And I was like, oh my gosh, I do, I love, I'm in love with you, and that was like the first time and that was like last summer, so a year and a half into all this, just reading the word and really diving into my identity and him. And then that, knowing who he is and because I know him, I now know love. And before I'm like I couldn't even. I couldn't even love correctly in my old self because I didn't know what love was and now I can love well because I am well loved, and it's the kind of thing that you don't have to try to tell people or to show people. It's just like the glory of God. It's the goodness that we've tasted and seen that he is good, that people recognize and I'm not. The best part of it is that I'm not even trying to do anything. I'm not trying to like produce fruit. It's just for being produced by his spirit and me that people can look at it and say, man, there is something so different about you and so just I want that. I'm like it's the Lord, but he's real. I went from not thinking he was real to being like oh my gosh, it's real. Even reading the Bible, man, everything in there is so intentional and so purposed and so life giving them like there ain't no way that all that is coincidence. There's just no way.
Speaker 1:How long until you were starting to see Adam through the eyes of God?
Speaker 2:Probably almost a year in. Yeah, you're like, if this is true about me, then I guess it's also true about my husband yeah, truly yeah, because, yeah, probably a year in a year, I would say, because there was still a lot of times where we would fight about things and just silly things, and it was really just because I still had all these expectations on him or he was doing things. I will say one thing that changed really quickly in freedom was he struggled with porn, and anytime he used to tell me because he was on this pedestal of like he is great and I'm unworthy, whatever, anytime he would do that I'm like man, like I'm not good enough, I'll never be good enough, I'm never going to measure up. And so this went on for nine years, and then enter freedom. He came to me and he told me or whatever he said he confessed, so that he no longer felt guilty, which is great. He came to me and was like hey, I did this. And I was just like why are you doing that? That's not for you, that's not who you are, you don't need to do that, and it like did not faze me and myself at all, but my heart was moved for him because I'm like that's not who you are either, though that's not for you, and so, instead of following your pirate, I was able to encourage him with something that I was never able to do before.
Speaker 1:How beautiful is that. Yeah, the Lord, yeah.
Speaker 2:A while.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this, and we'll wrap up If you get to go back in time and you get to go talk to sweet Courtney, who's just considering doing something terrible because of the lies believed, and you got to put your arm around her and give her a sweet hug, how would you minister to this girl?
Speaker 2:This one touches home, because I have people even now that still deal with these thoughts, that I just wish that they understood that those thoughts aren't their own, those are not thoughts that they're intended to have. They're not meant for them Like that. It is a lie that they should think that they're not worthy enough for life, or not worthy enough for love, or not seen or heard, because that's not true. Like from the foundations of the world, god knew that you would be there, that you would be here, and he meant for you and he purposed you to be here and to know him, not to live a life for yourself, but to live a life in him, free from all the expectations that you have for yourself or that you put on other people to meet for you. And so I would just tell them that they're loved. I would tell her that she's loved and that she's enough.
Speaker 1:Man, the first time I heard you testifying, I think Savannah sent me an Instagram thing like she was videoing you and you were just on your knees in the corner and you were just speaking powerfully for the Lord and I don't know. I think that video went viral or something that she put it out there. I don't know, but I saw that and so much of the time, someone like Savannah or someone like Eddie or someone like they tell me about someone. They're like yo, this person gets it and I'm always like, really, I'm always like, do they? And then they're always right. They'll show me a video and I remember texting Savannah and I was like yo, who is that? What is going on? And I had just seen a life that looked completely changed. I had never met you, I'd never spoken to you, but I was like yo, this is so beautiful and I was rejoicing. And then I got to meet you a few weeks ago in Ohio and to see that, while you're growing in wisdom and discernment and maybe you're not just fire hydrant, killing people with it, this truth is still growing in you and it's not changing and you're still excited by the gospel every single day. I'm just saying this to say you are a testimony to us, and your growth in truth has been just beautiful. Just to see from last year to this year, to hear you come on to my Bible study and to speak life and to do it on this podcast, I'm just overwhelmed by how much you've been loved by God and so it's just a blessing and testimony to me. So thank you for being loved by God.
Speaker 2:I listened to a lot of the stories and it is so true that every one of them you're like that was me. I did that, so it's been, you've been, a blessing. This whole ministry has been a blessing to so many people. I know that for sure.
Speaker 1:And we're just going to keep going right.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much, courtney. Wow, that episode is so powerful. Just to see her life live, to see how she speaks life to people and many people have been where she is, but they don't have the answer. So if you're struggling with anxiety and depression and perhaps suicidal thoughts, then this prayer is for you. Father, reveal to me the lies that I'm believing that's putting me in this position. Show me the truth of who you have made me in Christ, so that I can see it and receive it. I'm having a tough time believing it because my life lived doesn't add up to what you've said, but I know that I'm saved by your faithfulness, so please reveal to me this truth so that I can put conviction around it, own it and become it. Thank you for doing that. I know you will, because I'm praying it in Jesus' name, amen. A resource that you can tap into is wwwmoregoodgospelcom. We have so many book lists on there, podcast episodes. There's so much Links to all of it. I think you will be blessed. So check out wwwmoregoodgospelcom and be blessed.