Summary: Zach Owen's powerful testimony unfolds a poignant narrative of profound transformation through embracing the unconditional love of Jesus. From the turbulent aftermath of his parents' divorce to personal struggles with identity and worth, Zach candidly shares the challenges that shaped his spiritual journey. The pivotal moment at a Jesus-centric summer camp becomes a turning point, illuminating the internal conflicts faced amid secular influences. Zach's high school years, marked by sports enthusiasm and a hidden spiritual curiosity, reveal the transformative impact of a volunteering experience that led to a realignment of life choices with his faith. This heart-to-heart account delves into intimate themes of shame, forgiveness, and the profound understanding of God's love. As Zach navigates the challenges of college with the support of the Holy Spirit and a nurturing community, the narrative celebrates milestones like a globally reaching podcast and the formation of a pandemic-born "gospel boy band," culminating in a life filled with serenity, freedom, and a testament to the beauty of transformation through Jesus.
view more resources on our website
0:00 - Transformation
20:10 - Faith Journey at Summer Camp
31:05 - Jesus' Love and Forgiveness
37:13 - Navigating Faith and Shame in College
51:13 - Healing and Understanding via Zoom Session
58:41 - Journey of Faith and Friendship
1:11:35 - Quiet Life With Jesus, Finding Freedom
Keywords: testimony, transformation, Jesus, struggles, identity, faith, forgiveness, Holy Spirit,
Summary: Zach Owen's powerful testimony unfolds a poignant narrative of profound transformation through embracing the unconditional love of Jesus. From the turbulent aftermath of his parents' divorce to personal struggles with identity and worth, Zach candidly shares the challenges that shaped his spiritual journey. The pivotal moment at a Jesus-centric summer camp becomes a turning point, illuminating the internal conflicts faced amid secular influences. Zach's high school years, marked by sports enthusiasm and a hidden spiritual curiosity, reveal the transformative impact of a volunteering experience that led to a realignment of life choices with his faith. This heart-to-heart account delves into intimate themes of shame, forgiveness, and the profound understanding of God's love. As Zach navigates the challenges of college with the support of the Holy Spirit and a nurturing community, the narrative celebrates milestones like a globally reaching podcast and the formation of a pandemic-born "gospel boy band," culminating in a life filled with serenity, freedom, and a testament to the beauty of transformation through Jesus.
view more resources on our website
0:00 - Transformation
20:10 - Faith Journey at Summer Camp
31:05 - Jesus' Love and Forgiveness
37:13 - Navigating Faith and Shame in College
51:13 - Healing and Understanding via Zoom Session
58:41 - Journey of Faith and Friendship
1:11:35 - Quiet Life With Jesus, Finding Freedom
Keywords: testimony, transformation, Jesus, struggles, identity, faith, forgiveness, Holy Spirit,
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
Speaker 2:So when I first stopped porn I was 11, I think. But I mean like that tension or that struggle, I remember that from pretty early on, but pornography definitely was like the biggest struggle I would say that I wrestled with for a long time. That stems from that like desire for needing affirmation from my friends, but then it also played into that other part of my life. Oh, I'm a church kid, I can't be doing this.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young. In today's podcast episode is with my brother, zee Ho, zach Owen and this kid he's. I call him a kid, he's a grown man but has been such a blessing to me. This story is of a young man who went through heartbreak and shame and God has loved him so well. You know, dealing with pornography issues, breakups, but then life. It's sad that some of it is a common story, but also just to hear how God has loved him in the way he describes it, I think you're going to be very blessed to hear this story. So, without further ado, let's listen to Zach Buckle upstrap in Love. Y'all Appreciate y'all. Bro, tell me I want to hear about everything that's happened, but where does the story start? Where does the Zio spiritual stories start?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started in New York, moved to Maine, so I guess we're. My journey, I would say, usually starts, or some of the earliest memories I have are after my parents were separated. So my parents got divorced when I was like four, I think four or five. I have a couple of memories of them together, but not a ton, and so that was pretty rough for me. I think, if I think about my story and where things started to maybe go awry that's where I point back to initially was the divorce that my parents had.
Speaker 1:So I mean remember them being together in your life very much.
Speaker 2:So that's the interesting part. I have memories of when they were together, but not like of them both together, if that makes sense. I have some of my earliest memories from my dad and our house in Maine, like playing with me before bedtime, but I don't really remember my parents together, if that makes sense. So yeah, but I mean, as far as like them, they weren't living far apart. I grew up in the same town and they were only five minutes apart from each other. I've had some friends who've had divorced parents and they've had to travel to go on trains just to see their other parents. That's something that I'm definitely thankful about was that they were close, so that transition wasn't difficult, but there are a lot of other aspects of it that I think definitely did make things challenging and which I think, in turn, always ultimately shapes your initial views of who God is to. How did you view yourself? So it wasn't like a oh, I don't like myself or I don't find myself valuable. I was five, but I think I tried to cope with it in a way where I wasn't sure that I was truly valuable on my own, like outside of what I do, and so I think that in turn, caused me to really seek external affirmation in so many ways, and I think there was a whole bunch of other challenges that came into it, because both my parents are remarried as well, so they both got remarried really soon, and so I have step siblings on both sides and I think there was a level of man. I need to try to gain this affirmation from my dad or from my parents, and now I have this new step brother. I love them, love them. Looking back, I could say this Ben, I love you. But I think as a kid I subconsciously was like man. I need to try to find value and get affirmation because am I good enough? Now I have these other siblings, that's my age, and I think that just all played into this need to seek validation and played out in what I do gives me value, and so that I would say that was definitely where that all stemmed from, and going up through school, I can definitely see that play out as well. If we want to go down that path. Were you a people pleaser? Oh, for sure, yeah, 100% Like I needed not currently, but for sure was. I would say that was. I needed people to like me. I needed people to think I was cool. I needed to know that I was doing well. So I mean that played out with my family, definitely at school, I think. Moving forward a little bit growing up that was probably the biggest or like most important part of my life was like, how are my friends seeing me right now? Like how are the kids at school viewing me? Am I cool?
Speaker 1:to them. What did you find out? Were you cool? I was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:But that was just because I learned how to get people to like me. And it wasn't a conscious thing, I don't think. But I could tell the times where I was on the opposite side of it, even if my friends started poking fun at me. I didn't like it Deep down, I was like crushed. I was like shoot, I can't have this. I need to get back on top. I need so deeply, need to be seen in a way that is that's cool and to pull that to tie all these things back together with my parents divorce and then all of that aspect of things. But a natural thing that happened with the separation was my mom always wanted us. She would always take us to church and my dad stopped practicing and so it was almost like it was an interesting dynamic growing up because it was like every other week we'd go to church, every other week we would ink. My mom always wanted us to go to academy, have Christian education. My dad was back peddling on that. He maybe saw the value and some opportunities that would come through the public school system. So there was that element too and it played into this. Almost I felt like I almost had a double life growing up, where it was like there was two aspects of me and when I so deeply, when the most important thing to me at that point elementary school, in the middle school was, how are my friends seeing me and viewing me that really started to outweigh me. Or so there's two parts of me, right, there's me at school, then there's me when I go to church, and so it was like all my friends at school don't go to church and it's I need them to think I'm cool. And so there was this part of my life where it was like okay, this is the church side. I know it's important, but I'm just doing this because it's what we do and it's a part of me that I'm almost ashamed of when I go to school. I'd really like to keep that under wraps. I don't need that to get out. Like if you ask me, oh, are you a Christian? I'd be like embarrassed. I'd like, yeah, change the topic as quick as I can. And so I always felt this tension, like at that stage of my life and I think the key part of me needing to find that affirmation and those around me led to me really just like not wanting, or I valued that higher than I value anything that I saw with church and at that point that was shaping how I view God. Like I knew he was, I knew that he was important, but like I didn't know him personally and At that stage I was like it's not worse, more to me it almost feels like I would have to choose between the two and I don't want to let this go at this point and that kind of led me down the path of compromising on other things. I could say you started drinking drugs. Yeah, yeah, I was smoking beer. So it's really interesting because like I, looking back into my friends, like they'd always call me a goody two shoes, because like I had, I knew I had this in my heart and for me I'm kid I would always be like don't give her. You know, church is really gone Saturday and like all of this stuff, yeah, and like I mean all the things that you get taught growing up, but like when you don't, you know, have that genuine connection with Christ. It's just do's and don'ts and I didn't have a deeper meaning behind it anyway. So I mean, as I got older, things started to fall through on that end and like I had these almost values right that I've been brought up with, I had these values that I was holding onto, but as I got older, my friends were. It was more and more like man. That's just stupid, like why don't you want to look at these pictures? And that was when this is all settling in, so I was so when I first saw porn I was 11, I think 11 or 12. But like that tension or that struggle, I remember that from pretty early on. But I guess I felt it more so coming to a head around fifth grade, getting into sixth and seventh grade. But pornography definitely was like the. That was like my thing, or like the biggest struggle I would say that I wrestled with for a long time. That stemmed from that like desire for needing affirmation from my friends, but then it also played into that other part of my life oh, I'm a church kid, I can't be doing this.
Speaker 1:And so it was like added into the whole thing, the whole gumbo pot of who Zach was. So did anybody, did you reach out to anybody? Was it like man, I really don't want to do this, let me talk. Or is it just like I don't want to do it, but I'm doing it Like? How much did you think about it? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like it was so normal at school. The shame aspect of it came from me feeling like I'm living a double life and like when I would think of it from the perspective of God and like how he sees me. I'm like man. Now I'm doing all these things that I know he doesn't like and I look he want to do it, but right. But at the same time he has these rules that I'm not really able to even live up to right now. So I kept falling into it. It would lead to shame, like I would. I remember first like watching porn and I remember not being able to explain like the sense of like shame or I felt bad about it. At the same time as I'm getting to that age, you know what happens in church. At that point it's like, hey, when are you going to get baptized? Like, when are you going to go through all this and that?
Speaker 1:Hold on before you talk about baptism Can we talk about it for a second.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's a huge part of my story, so somebody brought this up after the Bible study.
Speaker 1:Yesterday Someone brought up a question about masturbation and I was like, oh shoot, the Bible study, we're going to talk about it. All right, let's talk about it. And we were talking about how sex is created for intimacy between two people. It's like the ultimate sharing of who you are with somebody else and it's a giving thing and a perversion of sex makes it to be completely self-centered. I can't think of a more self-centered act than masturbation and it is inherently shameful. It just comes with the territory and what the world has tried to do is to take something that's inherently shameful and say, oh no, take the shame off of that. And it tries to take all of these things that are inherently shameful and remove the shame from them and it's like, okay, but it doesn't actually work. It doesn't actually work Even if we know that shame is bad. Guilt, shame and condemnation is never coming from God, but there are certain things that we do that can create shame, no matter what, if you participated that thing, it does bring, and I don't want to be too graphic when you're done and you're just like what did I just do?
Speaker 2:There's inherent shame in that. Is that immediate? Was that worth it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Before it's completely worth it, because you can't even think your mind is going so crazy. And then you're like, was that worth it? But the answer isn't removing the shame. The shame is there because we're doing something that we're not built for if that makes sense yeah, for sure, definitely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And we're trying to, we try to talk our way out of it so we can feel okay, I'm just learning about my, okay, maybe Probably not, though you know what I'm saying. Yeah no, I agree, that's my after school special about trying to remove. Now. Should we live in shame? No, and that's why. That's why freedom from sin is so good, but you keep going Baptismal studies. That was my commercial. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's a key part that I think I might have left out here that plays into everything as well, especially when we started talking about getting into baptism and, like the church aspect of my life, my older brother his experience after the divorce was definitely different than mine and especially when he got into high school, he definitely acted out a lot, and for me, the way that I saw that and how my parents reacted to certain things, the way that I understood it and interpreted it, was, okay, I do bad things, my parents are disappointed, I do bad things. My value will directly be impacted by this, and I was like I don't want to let down my parents and there was a standard that I set for myself because I saw what was happening with the path that my older brother was taking, that I was like I need to be good, I need to do a good job and everything I do I need to make my parents proud, and so that directly played into things in terms of church, specifically for my mom, it did create an odd dynamic when my parents wanted different paths for me, it was like okay, I can't really fully please everyone here, and that was terrible. It was constant tension. But so when it came to church things, it was like, okay, I know I'm doing all this at school, but I still need to look like this good kid and make my mom happy with the things she wants me to do. So I get to the age of 12. I'm like, okay, I know, baptism is something my mom wants me to do. It's something we do in church, so I'm going to do the studies and I'm going to go through with it Really had no clue what any of it even remotely meant. I think that ultimately, it just put more of a weight on me to behave better and just piled on the shame when I continued to not behave better.
Speaker 1:That's so similar to my story, dude. I feel like it was just like a public display that you were going to follow Christ, but then if you were disrespectful to your mom after that, you're like you got baptized and you're not even done anymore.
Speaker 2:I remember, while being dunked under the water, being like Lord, help me, because I like, deep down I knew I couldn't do it. How about a foreshadow to Jesus without even knowing it? So that was the progression of things there. It is really interesting because I grew up in the church. I put quotes around that, but I was not. At the same time, I have a really interesting perspective with things. I went to public school most of my life. Really, the only time that I remember having a really loving things that were related to Jesus was at summer camp. I think that's why, to this day, I love summer camps so much. That was the most incredible experiences that I had as a kid. It definitely was something that I was not like I would say as a shame. Doug with my friends at school. I tell them summer came so fun like it's older than that, so we can fast forward into high school. There was this whole two paths in front of me towards the end of middle school, where my mom wanted me to go to academy. My dad wanted me to go to public school. At that point, all my friends were in public school. I really didn't care that much about Jesus or I didn't value it. So I definitely went to public school. But yeah, at that point I definitely was pretty sold and checked in with my group at school and I was like, yeah, this is where I'm going to be all four years. I'm loving it. I'm loving all my sports, playing lacrosse, so fun. All this and that Were you like a must-eat-head lacrosse player. No, not at all. I was 90 pounds. With my clothes soaking wet, I was like so small, so isn't?
Speaker 1:that like a real sport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I was quick, I was agile, I definitely got hit pretty hard. I can't lie. It was definitely at that point porn was like still the major, like tension point or where things kept coming to a head. I mean, my friends, at that point they started getting into drugs and that was where I was holding the line a little bit. I was like I don't quite know about that and I was thinking about it, but porn fully sold, like that. At that point it was like like porn, I'm in. But it was at the place where, so throughout this full time, I would go through like phases though, where I would be like I'm going to take God more seriously, I'm going to stomp this for as long as I can. Right, I'll count the days. You know what I mean. I want to do this and it's. You know, I'm going to hold out to the end of high school. I'll stay at this high school, but then I'm going to go to an Adventist college. That's going to be where I get it together and who knows what would have happened. But yeah, I mean, at that point it was like I would watch all these videos about like Jesus and prophecy and conspiracy theories and I'd be like I'd hunker down for a month and I'd be like I'm going to take this series and that would eventually phase out, but I would never tell my friends in school that, of course.
Speaker 1:You're like you're a sweetheart dude, I don't care like what you say. You're like I was in public school watching these prophecy seminars at night, not wanting anybody to know.
Speaker 2:Literally, though, I was a goody teacher. I can't even hide it. It's really weird. It's really weird looking back at it.
Speaker 1:I've seen pictures of your baby face when you're like at Pine Tree or at camp. And I'm like this dude is the sweetest dude of all time. He's just the sweetest dude, can't get away from it.
Speaker 2:Man. No, I had a baby face up to three years ago before I started growing a beard. If I shaved it, I'd look 16 again. It's all good, yeah, man. So towards the end of my sophomore year that was when I was getting the age when I could start to apply to camp and I didn't work full time I went up and I volunteered as a volunteer staff that summer after my sophomore year and we got to. It was one of the best summers in my life. Looking forward to camp every year as a kid and then getting to become one of the staff members that you look up to so much. I felt so cool. It was amazing. And so it was also really interesting my perspective because I wasn't at Academy, but I pretty much knew everyone there already Because my older brother went to Academy. My whole family went to Academy. My whole church was the church right there, so I knew a lot of the kids that were there and I ended up making friends with some of them at some of the church events. I think I went to a lock-in and I got to hang out with some of those kids. So it turned out that summer when I volunteered at camp is when some of those guys were working up there too, and it was just a summer for the books, like it was so fun, and I just remember that was the first time I had a thought of maybe I want to go to Academy, maybe I could actually these guys are really cool. Like maybe I don't have to pick and choose between which life I want to live day to day, like maybe I can just own that there's this part of my life that has to do with church and has to do with Jesus, even if I didn't have a genuine connection with him yet. I think there was a part of me that was like I still feel like I want to choose this way and I'm like I see my other friends that are really going down a path that I am drawing a line on and this can be a way out. And I think part of the motivations there could have been like because I wanted to be a good kid from my parents and stuff, and so I was like maybe all this behavior that I wanted to make sure is still good, like this will give me another reason why it's a way out of that other path. And so, even though it could have been definitely like behaviorally motivated. There was still like an aspect. I was like this is an appealing way to go and I think I want to make this transition and kind of just see what happens. And so I did. I also at that point I told my dad that I wanted to go that direction. We had a whole long discussion about that and that's what I did. I sent it over to Academy for my junior year.
Speaker 1:And it was like were you like a new cool kid? Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:I definitely played that up a little bit. I like to say it was the best of both worlds for sure, because I was the new kid but I already knew everyone. There wasn't that transition of oh, I'm going to make friends, everybody already knew me. And I think there was an element of oh that's actually went to a public school and I probably liked that.
Speaker 1:That probably made me seem a little bit more. That sounds awesome. It sounds like you're so cool.
Speaker 2:I know, In reality it's really not a big deal at all.
Speaker 1:But it's a huge deal when you're 16 or 17.
Speaker 2:Huge deal Like that was looking back. Life is so wild back then, but it was great because Academy didn't offer lacrosse. I still got to play for the team at Free Port High. So it was like this is perfect, like I still get to do this.
Speaker 1:So, in fact, where are you going? Oh, I got my lacrosse. Oh, you're so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see you guys. So I will say that first year at Academy was amazing. I loved it. This is where, all leading up to this point, I would say, my relationship with God was heavily related to my behavior. In the same way, it was like I need to be good for my parents for aftermation Also, just not to let them down. That was really how I was viewing God as well. My relationship with him and my standing where his feelings towards me were completely related to how I was behaving at the moment and how well I was doing, and so I definitely carried that in a little bit going into Academy. But my heart just kept softening to his love, and I think the key distinction was I was ready for it. That's the best way I can describe it. And so those first couple months at Academy, I was like so I just made this decision. I was like, OK, it was almost like I'm leaving that path behind, I'm just going to dive into this part of my identity. And I was open, genuinely open to just actually knowing who God was, and I had this desire put in me and I know now that was the spirit drawing me to himself of just to know who he was, and it was. This huge transition of this is something I want to do now. I want to be at this school and with that I didn't take certain things for granted. When we prayed before every class, it was like man, this is cool, I'm thankful I get to do this, and then we have a whole Bible class. I was like dang, that's actually really cool. I get to learn about this now, and so my heart. Over those first, I would say, few weeks and couple months, I was slowly, slowly being more. My eyes were opening more and more to who God truly was. It was almost like I was getting this deeper revelation that I had never seen before, and I started watching more videos on YouTube just about Jesus.
Speaker 1:And I think I started watching man.
Speaker 2:I used to watch, so at that point I was watching. I don't know if this is before or after this point, but I used to watch a lot of Jefferson Besky. Have you heard of Jefferson Besky? I haven't. So he like OK, so yeah, we'll talk about him. I used to joke around and say I didn't really say this. Anybody used to be in my head but I used to think to myself like man, I got discipled by YouTube, like I used to watch so many videos and Jefferson Besky used to write a lot of spoken word poetry and he was a guy that made that spoken word poem that went viral way back in like 2011. And it was like why Jesus is greater than religion. And I remember seeing that on Facebook and this is back when I was maybe like 11 or 12. So right when I was starting to watch porn, just like full of shame about everything, like all this tension, and I remember watching that and I was feeling like I was living a double life anyway, and I just remember my mind being blown of what do you mean? Jesus is greater than religion? Like those are one and the same, like what I do, like that is Christianity and I'm not doing those things. And I didn't get what he was saying. I definitely watched that poem to get a better understanding. Maybe we'll get some context of what I mean, but it's literally all about the gospel in that. It's not about what we do, it's about what Jesus did, and I was so behavior focused at that time that it didn't make sense to me. So I was definitely watching more YouTube. I was really loving Bible. I got to the point this is where I feel, for the first time I truly encountered the Holy Spirit and saw God in a way that I had never seen Him before and truly understood what he had done for me and it was all Him. And that was the fall of my junior year and it was Thanksgiving. I was at my grandparents' house and it was like after we ate and everything. I was on the couch watching YouTube video and it was just and I don't even know if I would agree with everything that it even said at this point but it broke down the gospel and I think it was like a sinner's prayer video. But I understood it in a completely new light, where it was like, by faith, I'm fully, completely forgiven right now. My forgiveness right now has nothing to do with what I've done or what I do and for the first time in my life, I sat on that couch and I believed and I knew that I was completely forgiven because of what Jesus did.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And I can't even explain the joy and just the peace all at once, just knowing that I was forgiven and righteous by faith, because my whole life, up to that point, I had been working so hard to try to be good and to try to impress and to try to not disappoint. And then I realized wait, god already provided a way for me to know that I'm completely forgiven because he loves me and that's how he sees me, and that just changed everything. It completely changed everything. I knew his love in a deeper way than I had ever even thought I could. And like it's so wild, because it was after that point that, when it stopped being about, my behavior changed, like my whole life. I was so focused on trying to get my behavior to come in line with this other ask, like this one part of my life, but the second. I realized that, oh no, like Jesus loves me now and I'm righteous and forgiven now, my behavior came into alignment with that.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how that works right.
Speaker 2:Isn't that wild. And it's honestly weird talking about porn now because it feels so far removed from my life. I think it's all Jesus, because it literally prays the Lord, because it's been like eight years, like eight and a half years, and I would have considered that something I was addicted to and now it's. He's freed me from it longer than it was even in my life, and that's just his amazing love that did that. And it's odd talking about it because sometimes I feel like man, like I can't give you a step-by-step program. It wasn't overnight, but at the same thing, it wasn't something I tried to do. I just kept seeing his love and realizing his grace was better. That was the key thing. Like at that moment in my life I used to listen to Hillsong United a lot and it was almost like this grace and love that I experienced was better than anything that I wanted before, is better than anything I experienced before, is better than the high that I got from pornography and it actually lasted and it actually satisfied, like some of the reasons why, like you were saying, like pornography and things, they're perversions of the beautiful thing that God intended, and even the beautiful thing that God intended was only meant to be a shadow of the true intimacy and love we have in Jesus. So, like in this life, there are a whole bunch of like pleasures, like lowercase p pleasures that we can put in the rightful place and enjoy to like how they're intended, but even then, they're only shadows of the uppercase p pleasure, which is Jesus. He is that true beauty and satisfaction that my heart was always searching for, and now I finally had him. So it was like, even if I stumbled, like I was caught in his grace again and I was like this is the most amazing thing. Like you love me right now, like you're the only thing I want. And I just kept getting lost in that over and over, and I just stopped thinking about it. I was just free from it. So, yeah, and it was wild.
Speaker 1:And that's so beautiful, even though it's the way you're talking about it Going back to our first love, when we really received that he just loves us, and the way we received that he really just loves us is that he forgave us while we were against him. Right, he's given us his love. He's merciful. He doesn't, he does not enjoy. He's not punishing us.
Speaker 2:He's just good, he's so good, bro. I used to listen to how he loves by David Crowder and ball my eyes out Like that year. That first year, like just the revelation of how he loves us and used to make me ball, is amazing, because that's all you need, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's so good.
Speaker 1:I feel like if we listen through it right now and we're not going to because we're on this podcast, I feel like right now If you're listening, if you're listening, pause and go listen to that song and go listen to it. Okay, welcome back. We'll continue on with the podcast. All right, so your junior senior year you're receiving these revelations, you're walking in this truth. God has become much different than he was when it was just about behavior, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that year was like a huge high spiritually in terms of emotionally and just like revelations of Jesus. And I remember I used before that point, like the years prior, I was like ashamed of that aspect of my life. I didn't want to talk about that, I didn't really have anything to talk about. To be honest, like I didn't really experience Jesus. And then, without trying, like I'm freaking, sharing, just like sharing the gospel on chair lifts with my friends, at like ski trips, there's just overflowing of how I've come to know the heart of the father. And deep down before there was always something that I admired and wanted to be able to do, and now it was just happening naturally and because of what he did and what he showed me of himself. And so I'm just sharing this with everyone, man, like it's not about what you do, it's about what Jesus did. He loves you so much, like he gave it all for you, like you can believe him now. And it was just so cool and then, especially that spring, when I went over to to back to it for lacrosse season, like I wasn't ashamed at all with my friends over there either. They would even ask questions and I had something to share at that point and I wasn't afraid, I wasn't ashamed. It was like I had met Jesus and I just loved to talk about it, so that was really cool. But then, unfortunately, there was a period following that where shame really took a hold on me again and it all stemmed. I was in a relationship the following year and it all stemmed from just some things that happened in that relationship and then I got dumped and it was like really hard and it was the first time I had ever been in a relationship and I think some of those old mindsets and patterns from like people pleasing, also not wanting to disappoint people and then shame all really took ground on me and I think I thought it was my fault. I was like man. I am a disappointment, like God isn't pleased with me right now. All of these things and at that point I didn't have a super deeper, strong community of people that like speak life and truth over me in that moment and also those were feelings that I had never experienced before and I think that really played into me being like man. I'm feeling so bad. That was the first time I'd ever felt depressed and like anxiety and I was like I don't know what these things are. They must be because my behavior wasn't good and God's disappointed in me and I messed up. I did some bad things. I need to not do bad things again or I need to not do. It's about what I do again. And I just took a whole bunch of that personally and I spiraled, honestly, like I would say it affected how I viewed God again. I think I was confused because I had come to know him so like in such a beautiful way, and then I think all these lies and shame and condemnation that I was feeling gave me a lack of trust again almost, and I was wrestling with that for a really long time, I would say all the way through college, like I wrestled with depression. I didn't know what it was looking back like I can identify it as bad.
Speaker 1:Were you a sad guy or were you like? I can't even picture that version of you.
Speaker 2:I was really good at hiding it, like I think, as a part of my life too, was being able to put on masks for whoever I needed to. If I need to go to school, like I can be whoever you want me to be, for you to like me. If I need to go to church, I can look a certain type of way for you, and I think there is like special especially, there was pressure on me after coming to know Jesus and going to academy, like I encountered Jesus pretty early on and I feel like there was there may have been a reputation there of, oh, this is just how people see me Zach just loves Jesus. Like they didn't really know me from public school, so that was all they really saw of me anyway. So I almost felt, oh, this is something I need to keep up, and that was right. When I was going into college too, where, looking, nobody really knows me, like I get to make an identity for myself. And so there were all these deep feelings of man, I did some bad things, I messed up. I need to make sure I don't mess up again, and so I'm gonna make myself look as good as possible. I didn't even want people to associate myself me with that. So I'm gonna have that work. How much it'll work? I felt dead inside it did not work and I was so confused too because, like it had this genuine connection and revelation with Jesus and I just didn't know what was going on. It was really interesting because I was like wrestling with a ton of lies, but I still had the Holy Spirit and he was still drawing me and whispering to me and speaking life to me. And looking back at college, I can genuinely say every semester got better and I truly believe that was because the Holy Spirit was reminding me of the truth and continued walking me through those feelings.
Speaker 1:And it was definitely really hard at times and really confusing, bro, just to know that you're insecure man, I know, I think, yeah, there was the mistakes that I've made in my life haunted me for years, man, and not every moment of every day, but there was always this you're not the person that you think you are or the person that you wanted to be. You're actually this person.
Speaker 2:Yep, that was a huge lie, that I was believing Huge lie, and I felt like I needed to constantly prove that I wasn't like that and in the whole time, that's not for me to prove. Like God said, I was something already, so I don't need to prove that I am that thing. I need to believe that I am what he said, that I am, I'm beloved, I'm his son, I'm forgiven, I'm righteous and redeemed. I'm not Shane, I am not condemned. And so I definitely felt really isolated going to college and I felt like I had all these feelings and I didn't know what it was. I was confused. I my roommate, who I was one of the only people I knew from high school at the time. He ended up dropping out for a semester and heading back home, so I was like really alone, dude college can be.
Speaker 1:It is on, it's a pendulum man. It can be the most amazing. Like man, this rules and it can suck, it can see through. Yeah, you'd be lonely as you've ever been and to be around more people than you've ever been around, and you're like oh, fucking lonely, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:I have. I literally had some of the best times in my life out there, but at the core of it I was hurting. I just had so much pain within me stemming from that relationship and breakup that I didn't know what to do with it. And I was like it was there and the more I felt, the more I tried to cover it and bury it. It's the worst it got. And so I was having good times but at the same time I was like this just sucks. I feel so fake. I feel like I'm just dying on the inside. But there were some moments that, like the voice of the Holy Spirit, just kept on, like nudging me and reminding me who I am and so, like some examples I think it was he added some people in my life at the right times that were like really helpful and just like having some kind of spiritual community. I think overall I did feel like a disconnect and didn't have a super strong community that I could connect with the people who, like head, I could necessarily relate on that type of revelation and experience I had with Jesus in high school. But it came to a point there was one of my Bible classes. We had an assignment that we had to do, and part of the assignment was essentially spending time in the secret place. Part of that, for a month or so, I think, was going out and just going and sitting and journaling and reading. I had never really taken time to necessarily be still like that and it was amazing, just like to know the presence of the Holy Spirit was there and for the first time in a long time, I had a sense of peace again and that stemmed to me journaling more consistently. And what's interesting is, I believe the Spirit led me to start journaling in a way that was like essentially speaking life and truth over myself, and so that's literally what I would do, is my journaling would become that Lord, you say that I'm this and this. Thank you that I'm your child, Thank you that. And no one taught me to do that. I just began doing that and I believe we know that the Spirit is the one reminding us that we're children of God, bearing witness with our spirits, and I believe that he was urging me to speak life and truth over myself in a moment where all I was believing was lies and feeling just absolutely terrible. And it's incredible because at that point was, I think, when I was in Meyer Hall, which was our men's residence hall, and I saw a poster on the wall for we used to get like worship credits, jesus point and Jesus get our Jesus points because it's about behavior and I'm just kidding, I love them, I love going to that. But one of the signs there was going to be like a worship credit every night that week that you could get in the dorm and it said love reality and like I was like, oh cool, I'm going to go anyway. But I thought that was really interesting and I think at that point I Christian might have called me at one point and told me that love reality was going to be in town too. But Christians went on an amazing part of my journey as well. We became friends back at summer camp and just to see us both come to know Jesus and deeper ways but really beautiful, because we used to believe some black stuff about ourselves back in summer camp. So it's good to see Jesus move in our lives. So anyway, at that point I go to this worship credit night and I had already been journaling and praying and speaking these truths over myself and I get in and it's Jonathan Leonardo.
Speaker 1:Jonathan, seventh Day, sabbath Leonardo, exactly.
Speaker 2:And he's just going hard like right off the bat and I'm loving it, like because the Spirit has just been leading me in journaling all these truths about me. And he gets up and he's first off. He starts talking about cool runnings that you make in Bob sled movie and I freaking love that movie and then he talks about a scene where one of the guys is talking in the mirror and they're like hyping themselves up and that's basically what he starts saying You're a son, you're a child, anything else is a lie. You're righteous, you're holy blame. It's like all in Jesus name. And I am just like smiling as big as I can. I'm like I'm going to make sure this guy sees me and sees that I'm agreeing with everything he's saying. And to this day he says that everybody was like half asleep and then he just sees me in the crowd like yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that picture of my mind.
Speaker 2:I know that His little baby face act, just smiling, really Eating up the gospel man. Yeah, because that was the thing. Like dang, this is like the truth in the life that I've been speaking over myself and somebody is just someone, gets it Like someone is whoa, yeah, agrees with this, yeah, and so that was really big for me and so I had known love reality from that point. It wasn't until, and so I kept growing in that Obviously I wasn't. I was still dealing and working through a lot of things. I was feeling a ton of pain and shame and like depressed, and so I felt I just man, I just have so much to heal from, I need to heal from so many things and a lot of it. I was still trying really hard, like I was trying really hard with God and I still associated this okay, I'm feeling this pain because of something I did, so I'm going to stop doing or I need to do good, and so that was subconsciously in the back of my mind, like I knew I was fully righteous, I knew I was forgiven, objectively, completely in Jesus, but I still have all this pain that I'm working through and we go, we get to the end of my senior year in college it's like really great, moved in with my guy Taylor Shout out. We had a super fun time.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Taylor Bartram what's up, my guy, that's right.
Speaker 2:And so, anyway, we're getting towards the end of my senior year 2020.
Speaker 1:That's right when COVID hits school shuts down the worldwide pandemic, as they called it back then.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's what they called it COVID-19, man. That was early days too. Me and Taylor were living in our apartment. We're honestly having so much fun, just us like early lockdown wild times. At the same time, there were some Love Reality Zoom wave sessions going around and at that point I was like I had remembered going to the Love Reality sessions in Meyer Hall and really loving it. When I got back to Maine after school I was like, if there's another Love Reality Zoom Bible Study week, I'm definitely going to join in. And that's exactly what I did. And I remembered this guy coming on the screen named Richard and being like all right things cool. All right, we'll see, we'll treat. You are pretty cool, richard. I just want to say that.
Speaker 1:Oh man, but yeah, that summer was so much fun. Yeah, I don't know how many we did, maybe three or four sessions. We're just going to full. Send the gospel on Zoom it caught fire.
Speaker 2:Man Zoom who would have thought Zoom became pivotal? Yeah, you guys were doing another Zoom session and I joined in and I just remember the first night being like dang, like these people get it and it was the closest thing that I had experienced to a group describing that revelation of the gospel that I had experienced when I was in, when I was a junior, on my grandparents' couch, but like even more and like even deeper and like understanding the finished work of Jesus in like a way that I had never even fully grasped before and I just immediately felt that home. I was like dang, like this is so cool.
Speaker 1:And I was like you were by yourself on these Zooms. Yeah, I don't remember seeing you by yourself, man, I don't. Yeah, I think. No, I was by myself.
Speaker 2:So I just remember that first night taking so many notes in my notebook and like just all of this like tricks and life, like it all in the word, like that was the biggest part is like all of this is in the Bible and there'd be the teaching portion. We'd read through it and like just jumping in all these Adam one, adam two I was like this is so cool. And I remember learning so much and being challenged in certain ways too, with just the intimacy that we can have with the Holy Spirit. And it was part ways through that first Zoom session or that first week where I was like you all were talking about really knowing the Holy Spirit intimately and listening to his voice, and those were areas that I was still like hadn't really grown that much in. And at that point it was COVID. I loved to read and I was like I'm going to order a bunch of books and I'm going to read. And I think I still had that mindset at that point of there's things I need to do In order for me to heal from all the things that I've experienced and like shame that I've felt. And so I had just ordered four or five books and I was like man, I can't. And I think it was after one of the Zoom the Love Reality sessions. We were talking about the Holy Spirit and might have been about the secret place, so I was like really wanting to come to know the voice of the Holy Spirit deeper. And I remember I was sitting down and I was like man, I can't wait for my books to come in. And I was like can't wait to really start this healing process. And I just remember this thought coming to my mind of being like Zach, everything that you need to heal is already within you. And it hit me I was like man, like the Holy Spirit, like I have everything I need and him for, like him to lead and guide and counsel. And not that reading books can't be helpful. I think the Spirit can move through that as well. I still love to read different books, but I think he was specifically teaching me like hey, you don't need to be dependent on these things for you to work your way out of everything that happened. I think he was really just trying to teach me I need to stop doing. I need to stop relating my standing with him with what I'm doing. Everything that I have from him is a gift that I receive. I don't work for any of it. He works within me and I have the privilege to walk alongside that Solid solid news. That was super solid.
Speaker 1:Okay, I want to take a real quick break to tell you guys that the end of 2023, the Deathly Podcast was downloaded for over 200,000 times in total since the beginning. Now, that may not be a lot to you, but it's a lot to me. It's been downloaded all over the world and it keeps getting produced because people keep donating so we can keep this thing going and we're looking for 200,000 more downloads. We had 100,000 just this year, so that's a big deal. We want to keep doing this. We want to keep growing. If you want to partner with us, go to loverealityorg slash give. That's loverealityorg slash give, and we can keep this mug going. So thank you so much for considering donating to Love Reality and to the Deathly Podcast. We appreciate you. Let's get back to that.
Speaker 2:I think at that point, yeah, we definitely still hadn't met yet, but I was about to move down to Florida and so I was on Love Reality and Tyler had. So I had just signed my lease to move down to Orlando and that's when, in Zoom, I had met Connery Ockers. Ciao to all him and. Taylor were some of my groomsmen in my wedding. Y'all keep calm, um the guy. And so I met Connor there and like we found out that we just happened to. I was about to move down to Orlando, right across the street from where he lived, and so we were both just super hyped on the gospel. We were like this is so sick. Like we're gonna have so many Bible studies and we got to have room for activities We've been roomed for so many. Really, that's how it felt. It's just a bunch of goons down here, man, like we. We were the Florida boys. It started early, like we moved down and we got right on it.
Speaker 1:Like we had a.
Speaker 2:Bible study. Had you met Nicholas on Zoom? No, I met Nick the summer before. So I met Nick and Cameron. We both interned together down here for Advent health. So, like we, we met in the internship. So when I met Tyler, I had no clue that it was Nick's brother. And so when I connected the dots I messaged Tyler's hair unique Morrison's brother is Nick Morrison at these wack. And so I was like, yeah, that's definitely the brother. So, yeah, no, I knew them. But at that point me and Nick weren't really close. Me and Cameron were a little closer because we worked in the same department during the internship. That's another good point. I reached out to Cameron and we both moved in together in Orlando. So we became roommates while me and Connor just started our Bible study at his apartment. So I invited Cameron over. That's low key how Cameron heard the gospel and realized his freedom in Jesus. So that's amazing. It's honestly so weird looking back at it, because it's wild to see everything that happened in such a short period of time, like it doesn't show real sometimes. And Nicholas started coming to our Bible study and he had just had a deeper revelation of Jesus right before then. So it was like we just became this. So Will officiated my wedding and he described this as a gospel boy band. And we became this gospel boy band. That was just like sending it everywhere we went. And when did it move to Zoom dude? Okay, so yeah, literally two weeks in, so fast, because COVID started to ramp back up and we're like let's just do it on Zoom. We were initially doing home church, I think, and then we're like let's just do a Friday night Zoom meeting and invite the people that have been coming to the Bible study and then people can send out the link if they want. And that spread so fast, so fast, like we had so many people coming from all over the country. Then eventually it branched out internationally. We got on made out in Mexico who like just reached out and she somehow saw it through Instagram I don't even know, it was unreal man and we just saw people's lives changing and, like Christina, At Bible study.
Speaker 1:There's been I don't know how many people on this podcast because of that Bible study. I don't even want to count. It's crazy about how, during the pandemic, with all this, terrible stuff's going on, but God is just blessing through this Bible study that it was every. Friday night. I loved it. I didn't get to every one of them, but man, we were. Sometimes we were up till two in the morning, lord of time, so late Talking about God man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bro, it was unreal, Unreal.
Speaker 1:And let me ask you this Did it ever come to a point where you're like something clicked, or was it just yeah?
Speaker 2:this is now what I believe, and I'm living my life by this truth, I think that by the time I joined Love Reality, something resonated with me so deeply within that it was like or that was the closest thing that resonated so deeply to what I knew, I had experienced in my conversion and I was like I know this is you, I know this is you Jesus, and I know that this is the truth. And not only am I by your finished work, am I completely saved, righteous, holy, but also I'm objectively healed in your name. And that was a deeper revelation that I got from Love Reality. And it was I don't know if it was necessarily a click, more of a reawakening that might be a better way of describing it or maybe shaking lies, because it was like it was something that was so deep already within me that I'd known and experienced. And then it was almost like I snapped out of it and there were definitely moments of like old thought patterns coming up. But at that point I knew my community and I had what I didn't have in high school when I started hearing those lies and feeling that shame Like. I had one, a group that I was like, building myself up in the truth and like people that speak life and truth over me in moments that I might need it.
Speaker 1:And we don't all I wanted we can't forsake the gathering of ourselves. Man, like I was saying the other night, you don't get brownie points, or God's not impressed by you going to church. Okay, he doesn't love you more, he's like, ooh, they went to church, good for them, good, no, but it is good to meet with God's people. And I remember we got down there for Will and Joyce's wedding. I had never met Will or Joyce before, I'd never met you before, and that's like one of the most, one of my most favorite weekends of my life. I got COVID that weekend.
Speaker 2:And it was totally worth it.
Speaker 1:It was incredible just to meet you guys and the wedding was incredible and just to see I met you and it felt like we were just bros from Jump Street. I don't know this guy, but he's free, I'm free. We both believe in Jesus. Yeah, and what he's done, yeah, that was such a fun weekend. That was so fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I think since then and I think we can start wrapping it up I think since then I've seen a ton of growth in you. I've seen there's been some roadblocks and some weird stuff along the way and I've seen this group gather, rally around you. I've seen you rallying around other people. It was all from this that you were in. You knew you were in. There was no fear of being cast out. It was just like growing in maturity and where I want to take this, I don't think we think this story might be for later. You were just recently married. Talk to me about what freedom means to you as you are walking in this experience of being a husband and loving your wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely the biggest thing that God's taught me and that has been so impactful to my day to day with Brie is that I get to treat her out of how Jesus has treated me and not how I've been treated or how I've been hurt from past relationships. I think that one of the things that God really walked me through while Brie and I were dating was a lot of sheer hit walls that I had built up around romantic relationships that really hadn't been addressed, and he basically taught me that I don't need to approach our relationship walled up or with a guard up, because my love stems from him, alive within me, towards her. And there's this idea of I think I was having a discussion with the Holy Spirit where it's when you have a first relationship and you've never experienced anything. So you have no walls up, there's no fears, no reservations, yeah, it's just innocent. And then the issue with me is that I had gotten so scared and those feelings would come back and he was like, listen, because of me, you don't have to treat her out of how you were treating the past or the hurt that you experienced in the past. You get to treat her as innocently or with a love, as innocent as it was before you ever even were in any relationships, because you get to love her through my love. I get to love her through how I've been treated by him, and so it's new and it's fresh and it's beautiful and it has no expectations on how she's treating me in the moment. It's purely I love you because I've been fully loved and it's so freeing and just beautiful and it's been really fun.
Speaker 1:You have that mindset, man. You can't lose, you can't go wrong. You just grab onto that friendship that you've had and that friendship is going to keep growing and your marriage is. I think I texted you this on your wedding day that it's a testimony of God's love. Man and people are going to be looking around to see if God is love. And if they look and see, they look at your marriage, they'll be like, yeah, god is love.
Speaker 2:What a privilege.
Speaker 1:You have to love your wife that way, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:absolutely. That was one of the things when one of the clearest words that I got from the Holy Spirit when I was praying about Brie was essentially that I was wrestling with a lot of fears, like these feelings and lies of fears and he essentially broke a town. He was like Zach, what do you want to do? And I was like I want to be with her. And he was like you have everything you need to love her within you. Everything you need to love her is already within you, and that's it, it's. I can love her because he is in me and he is love, and that's it. It's a gift and it's a privilege.
Speaker 1:Powerful. Bro, let me take you back. We're going to go back. You just finished intermurals, you're walking to the cafeteria. You got lake effects, snow and you're feeling some sort of way. It's like your freshman year. Sad boy, sad boy in it, up with a smile on. If you get to come across this kid who's been so sincere and you get to put your arm around him and say, listen, my boy, what would you encourage this kid with?
Speaker 2:Bro, I would just say dude, you're so valuable, you're so valuable. I feel like I would just need to hear that I'm enough as I am. I am enough. I think there's nothing that I need to try to do or work for. You are enough right now, and also just chill out.
Speaker 1:Like baby, you're cool, you're it, you got it, just chill out, chill out.
Speaker 2:That's the biggest thing that I've learned. What's most currently walking with Jesus is like I can just chill out and enjoy life with him, and I think that was one thing. Yeah, man, and that was something that he I grew a ton in, especially after leading that Bible study for so long. I think there was, in some instances, a sense of pressure hey, I'm leading this, I need to be on, I need to make sure I have the right thing to say, and it's been so nice just to live a quiet life with Jesus and enjoy it. And hey, there's no pressure on me today. I just get to love and love my Lord and live this life that he's blessed me with and he'll work in me to do whatever he wants to do, and that is just so free and so beautiful. So, yeah, I would tell him you're valuable, you're enough, you're enough to show just enjoy your life with the Lord.
Speaker 1:Man. You're a city on a hill. People have seen your good works and has glorified your Father in heaven, not just in the Florida Boys Bible study, but just how you've lived your life, man. So you're a testimony to me. I can't wait to see you again. Don't know when that's going to be, but thank you so much for sharing your story Of course, man.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I love you, dude, Love you dog.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things that just keeps us in our chains is condemnation, the lie that your life is the one that will be judged. And if you're dealing with that, if you're still stuck in sin because of that condemnation, this is for you. Father, thank you that you have forgiven me once for all time, that you have separated my sin from me, that you have freed me from sin. You are not punishing me for my addiquities. My sin is as far away from me as the East is from the West. Thank you for forgiving me by your blood. Thank you for reconciling me back to yourself by sending your son Jesus, where I've had trouble believing it before, I believe it now. Thank you for forgiving me In Jesus' name, amen.