Jonathan Kemper's compelling story transcends the struggle with sin, shame, and misguided pursuits of love. From navigating the weight of familial expectations in his youth to the transformative influence of the gospel in adulthood, Jonathan shares a gripping narrative. In our expansive conversation, he fearlessly delves into raw and painful moments that shaped his journey, from the allure of seeking affirmation through fleeting relationships to the challenges of academic pressure and maintaining a double life. Jonathan's candidness invites us into the complexity of human connection, guiding us through high school, college basketball, teaching moral conflicts, and career uncertainties. Embracing truth over fleeting feelings, his tale resonates in personal growth, second chances, and the daily practice of faith, reminding listeners that the past doesn't define us. Jonathan's authentic testimony highlights the renewing embrace of God's love, the power of forgiveness, and the freedom found in living one's true identity amid life's challenges.
0:00 - Transformation and Freedom Through the Gospel
9:07 - Navigating Love, Deception, and Forgiveness
23:05 - Discovery of Faith and College Plans
35:35 - Identity Crisis and Seeking Affirmation
41:32 - Struggles With Reputation and Personal Challenges
50:40 - Education and Job Struggles
1:03:42 - Navigating Careers and Relationships
1:12:58 - Struggling With a Double Life
1:23:33 - Valentine's Day Gift Dilemma and Consequences
1:38:06 - Personal Growth and Second Chances
1:51:49 - Struggles With Labels and Self-Worth
2:02:33 - Walking in Freedom and Relationship Reconciliation
2:17:57 - The Power of the Gospel
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
Jonathan Kemper's compelling story transcends the struggle with sin, shame, and misguided pursuits of love. From navigating the weight of familial expectations in his youth to the transformative influence of the gospel in adulthood, Jonathan shares a gripping narrative. In our expansive conversation, he fearlessly delves into raw and painful moments that shaped his journey, from the allure of seeking affirmation through fleeting relationships to the challenges of academic pressure and maintaining a double life. Jonathan's candidness invites us into the complexity of human connection, guiding us through high school, college basketball, teaching moral conflicts, and career uncertainties. Embracing truth over fleeting feelings, his tale resonates in personal growth, second chances, and the daily practice of faith, reminding listeners that the past doesn't define us. Jonathan's authentic testimony highlights the renewing embrace of God's love, the power of forgiveness, and the freedom found in living one's true identity amid life's challenges.
0:00 - Transformation and Freedom Through the Gospel
9:07 - Navigating Love, Deception, and Forgiveness
23:05 - Discovery of Faith and College Plans
35:35 - Identity Crisis and Seeking Affirmation
41:32 - Struggles With Reputation and Personal Challenges
50:40 - Education and Job Struggles
1:03:42 - Navigating Careers and Relationships
1:12:58 - Struggling With a Double Life
1:23:33 - Valentine's Day Gift Dilemma and Consequences
1:38:06 - Personal Growth and Second Chances
1:51:49 - Struggles With Labels and Self-Worth
2:02:33 - Walking in Freedom and Relationship Reconciliation
2:17:57 - The Power of the Gospel
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
Speaker 2:I remember doing that several times, like, oh, I'm getting these feelings again. I don't live by feelings anymore. That was a big thing from Love Reality. You don't live by feelings, you live by the truth. And I was like man, this sucks, you know. You're having to tell yourself something different than your feeling, because that's all I had live by is my feelings for so long and I hadn't lived by truth that I was having to retrain my brain in the way that I think to now think, you know, live with the spirit in me and to live by what the truth says about me instead of my feeling.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today our episode is with my brother, Jonathan Kemper. I've known Jonathan for a long time and then this episode he's going to open up about that moment, that moment that we can all relate to, when we let our feelings take over and we find ourselves in a constant shame slash feeling cycle. And why this is so important is because until we see the truth, we can't break free from that. We were chained to our feelings, chained to the circumstances, so what he describes as paradigm shift in his life is going to be a huge blessing and I think you're going to really appreciate it. This episode is now for kids. There is adult themes, but there is a profound, a profound understanding of God's love by understanding the truth. So let's listen to Jonathan Kemper Love y'all appreciate. Y'all Bugle up, Strap in. Where do you feel like this story starts, man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been trying about it and thinking about it, but probably the best place to start is going to be the end of my eighth grade year. So that would be what? 2005? I want to say 2005? 2005. That might be the first year. It's been so long. So, yeah, early high school, so that's going to be the place we're going to start.
Speaker 1:Before you say anything about early high school, let's set the table a little bit. You're from a Christian background.
Speaker 2:Yep, adventist background. Both my parents, both my grandpas were Adventist pastors, so both my mom and dad are PK kids, right. So I definitely grew up in the church. You know the Adventist way haystacks, friday night worship, all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:And you got two older sisters that I actually went to. I don't know if I went to school with Lisa. I know I went to school with Michelle, but how old is Lisa?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah. So Michelle's six years older than I am, so she's 40, and Lisa's four years older than I am, so she's 30.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I went to school with both of them. So yeah, man, that's the background, and then we're going to get what happened in eighth grade. Man.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So eighth grade, I would probably say that's kind of like the start of like all the dying that happens in the story. There's a lot of debt, but it's a kind of paint to picture even better. So I grew up most of my life in central Texas. To paint the picture even better, if you think of Dallas and Austin, right, and I 35, it's right between those two cities. So central Texas, clean Texas, right by Fort Hood I went to from second grade all the way up to 10th grade, clean out of this junior academy. So an Adventist junior academy had that whole experience. But yeah, freshman year, okay, I'm playing basketball. Small school, there's probably I don't know like 12 kids in our class, probably 80 kids max in our school, right, and so at this time I've never been one to think like I'm the big man on campus. But everybody else was kind of like, oh, you know, kemper, he's get up ball, he's, he's a nice guy, comes from a good family, and so I had kind of that reputation of, oh, to live up to you. My parents, you know they were involved in church I'm a grandpa's where pastors I have this reputation a little to my sisters are amazing at school. Everybody knows them. So right from that, the start right, I'm always thinking, you know, I got to live up to those expectations. Am I going to be good enough, like if I mess up, or people still gonna accept me if I make mistakes? You know, that's kind of the trend of this whole whole testimony. Well, anyway, I would say, probably the dine starts when I I'm dating this girl. Right, I can have this background, I haven't really dated much, but freshman year there's this beautiful girl there, really my first year as girlfriend, and she was from public school and all my friends are like, oh man, she's from public school, she's new this year. Oh, she, you know she's, uh, she's hot. And you know, we start talking and we start dating freshman year. And her parents were also Adventist but they went to the Spanish church. Uh, anyway, so to continue on that freshman year playing basketball, living up to this reputation I start to get while we're dating, you know we're not living a Christ centered, our relationship isn't Christ centered, and we start to get into things that you know lead you far from from Christ, right, or exactly from what's most important. And for me that was like my first experience, like, oh, okay, like this girl's from public school. She knows, like all this stuff, like she's a bad girl per se. You know she wasn't, but that's kind of what the reputation was, and so I'm starting to get involved with not doing things that don't align with what God wants from us.
Speaker 1:And go ahead. Let me ask you this real quick yeah, who was God at this point in your life, like who was so, growing up, I was new, god was a loving God and God was a good God.
Speaker 2:However, I always thought I had to earn his love, right, because you would memorize the clean commandments inside of school and you memorize the memory verses and get little stickers and oh, good job for memorizing the commandments and your memory verses. And so I always thought that God's love was something that I had to earn, and if I acted out or I did something that wasn't aligned with what he says is right, then I'm in trouble, where I'm going to be lost forever, and so that's kind of how I took that?
Speaker 1:Did you know that you thought that way, or was it just like a general feeling, like that you were kind of low key scared and you were earning it. Did you know that? That's kind of what you thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's kind of what I thought and that's not necessarily reflecting back on it. That's not how my mom and dad were teaching us, but that's what I picked up on and it's interesting. You know, when you go through your Bible classes at school, if you're in the Christian school, that that's the takeaway and somehow the devil uses this deception for you to think that, oh, you have to earn God's love and that's the farthest thing from the truth. So anytime you're saying or you make a mistake, it's like you're living in that combination of shame, which is crazy. But yeah, living in that relationship I just started to, the more and more we would do things. You know the sexual nature it's. I started to get addicted to that and for that affirmation of feeling like, well, I messed up, I want to be accepted, I want to be loved. This is my way of feeling accepted and loved. Right, and this was the time where my space right. So do you know my space back in the day?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I said this a lot. I announced my wedding, or my engagement, on my space. I think it was the last cool, the last thing on my space. Right after that people saw that like, oh, rich was engaged, we're moving over to Facebook and so it was over. But before you talk about that, when you would experience these things, was a guilt, condemnation and shame. But the feeling of doing it was too strong and powerful or like what was that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I knew what was right and wrong, and because my parents and people around me had instilled in me what was right and what wasn't, according to what God wants from us. But, as you know a teenager, you kind of lose sight of that and you're like, well, this is wrong, but I want to find out for myself. And so, yeah, I thought it was wrong. But then it goes back to while I've sinned, I'm already far from God. I might as well keep going. You know there's no going back from this. I got to earn God's love and if he, if he, can't love me because I'm making mistakes, then what I'm doing and I'm getting this, this attention and affirmation from my girlfriend, like that's going to have to do, and so I'm seeking love and acceptance in that relationship, right. And so this carries over. So I kind of like that feeling that getting that attention, so that carries over into my space and a my space it'll open a whole new world. Because now it's like you have people send you what friend requests for wanting to be your friend, and so you're seeing all these other girls that are messaging you and they're like, hey, you know, you're cute, I'm trying to holler at you. And that feeling of like, well, god can't love me because I'm making these mistakes, but these women are showing me attention with these girls, like I'm going to pursue that. And so I started to chase, you know, love in the wrong areas, right, and so that was the whole thing where I'm dating this girl at the time. But then I have my space, and it was one day we were at her house and her mom and her mom could throw down with some cooking and she was making us a meal and I remember we were on the computer or something and my girlfriend asked me let's log in your, your my space, let's look at it, let's set your top. At that time you could set your top like five top 10 friends, right. So we're going in there. I'm like, oh, who should be my top five or whatever. And this message pops up, or whatever. She's going through my messages and she sees that I'm talking to these other girls and dad just brought a whole nother level of combination and sharing right there, cause I got caught in. Did you?
Speaker 1:lie. Did you explain it? You're like nah, that's like my aunt.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, for sure. I tried to lie and get around it, but there was no getting around it. And what's crazy is is that when you're living in this deception, in this, this shame lying it's, it's almost, it's too easy to do and you think it's going to get you out of this situation, but it never does. And so I got caught there. I'm in an awkward position. I'm at her house, her parents have welcomed me in, and then she's like well, okay, well, you need to go home. So I go home, we end up breaking up long story short. We get back together that summer, right? Or man, we're dating 10th grade, right? So I'm still living in this, this, this cycle of seeking that affirmation of love from from girls or wanting that attention from every other place except God, and then so it goes up to 10th grade. So at that point I asked my parents to say, hey, mom, dad, can I go to the local public high school? And, being old school alphanist and believing in alphanist education, they're like nah, no, son, there's one option, there's two options for you. You can go to Jefferson Academy, which is a bless those who have worked there. Nothing against Jefferson Academy. It's in East Texas, near Shreveport, louisiana, by the border in Louisiana, or you can go to Ozark Adventist Academy, where your sisters went, and you know, seeing my sisters go there, I was like, oh, this is cool, I can play basketball there. Oh yeah, it's going to be awesome. So I was like I'll go to, I'll go to Ozark. So, for those that don't know, ozark Adventist Academy is in Gentry, arkansas, probably like an hour I don't know which direction from Fayetteville, arkansas. So give you northwest Arkansas. There you go, northwest Arkansas there you go, and it's in the middle of nowhere and when I went there was 2007, 2008, right, so beautiful campus, but the highlight of the city is a Walmart right. So when I went there, it's like on the weekends it's like All right, the boarding school on the weekends, we're going to Walmart. Everybody get on the bus.
Speaker 1:It's kind of that environment it is actually the home of Walmart right Northwest Arkansas, the Waltons aren't they from that area? It's kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2:Is it? I just learned something that's kind of cool. How do?
Speaker 1:you not know that? Well, yeah, well. Arkansas is Walmart's home base.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, the Walmart was really nice, so maybe that explains it. Maybe it was the first Supercenter, I don't know, but it could be. And so transitioning from a day school to a boarding academy, that opened up a whole another like can of worms, right. Watch out, because if you haven't been to a boarding academy, shout out to everybody that's worked there. I know you have before Rich. Yes, sir, it's a great ministry but it's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. And so I'm there as this young whippersnapper why just want to play basketball, have a good time and lo and behold, right, I have a wake up call because now I'm living in a dorm with a roommate and I'm having to get up on by myself, get to class, make sure my grades are good. No one's helping, no one's encouraging me to do that. Right, it's pretty much I have all this more responsibility while I'm dating this girl, but while there's all these other girls there, right, so it's like, oh man, this is a whole new world. I'm experiencing all these new things, right. So I'm still living in this cycle. I'm dating this girl, right, but while I'm there, these other girls want my attention. So now it's trying to find a balance of okay, well, I want to have friendships, but I don't have pure motive. So now it's I'm flirting, I want their attention. I'm trying to get all this attention from all these girls, right, and that's not going well. He says my girl sees that and she's like, oh, you know, I don't like the way that you're talking to these girls and giving them attention and I was like, well, I just want to experience this and I want to have friends. And it was not a healthy relationship, as you can probably tell, but I just one of those things where you have to push you with a person and you don't want to hit it because you don't want to see them be with someone else, right? So I'm going through that cycle, my junior year, while I'm trying to navigate how to be a young man and take responsibility for my learning, while I'm working. So, to add to the story, give you more context At Ozark they had I think it was if you were a junior, you would work in the morning and you go to school in the morning and you work in afternoon, right, and it was the opposite for the seniors. So I had a job and I was getting paid, which was nice. It was minimum wage at the time, I don't know what it was, it wasn't much, but it was to help us, yeah, responsibility and all that stuff, right? So I'm in the library, I'm working in the library, which is the worst place for me, because I'm not the type that can just sit at a desk, be quiet, be quiet. You got to stop. I could not do that, and so I would show up to work late every day and my boss, who at the time was Kaseh Munilava. So shout out, kaseh, I love you, paul. Paul, this was my first introduction to Kaseh. She was the chaplain, but she was also my boss, and so I'm living in this world of shame, condemnation, all this stuff, trying to navigate that which is impacting me in other areas of my life, because I'm feeling like, well, I'm not good enough, people judging me, as God doesn't love me. I got to find attention from other people, right? So, and then I had this fear, at the same time, of well, if I really showed people, if people really knew what I was struggling with, they would judge me and not want to be friends with me. So I was the master at keeping people at an arm's length, right, I would talk to you. I was like all you want to be friends? Oh, no, no, no, that's cool, we can be acquaintances. I know you well enough to know who you are, but if you really know me and what I'm going through, oh, you're going to judge me. I'm just going to be this terrible person.
Speaker 1:Was it just like, did you think you were a good dude? Or did you think, like, I want to be a good dude, but I can't be looking at the stuff I'm doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wanted to be a good guy. So bad, rich, so bad. But I thought I was just the worst person because I'm making all these mistakes. I had cheated on my girlfriend, but yet here I am in high school, still together with her, but still want the affirmation from other girls. And so I thought I wanted to be a good guy. But that deception. I was just believing I was just this rotten piece of poo, you know, and nobody could love me if they really knew the real me. So all the time I was putting on this front wild time to figure out how to be a young man and take responsibility, right Was my brother working there in the library with you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, mike, yeah, I love that guy and so, yeah, we had some good times. But, yeah, if you worked in the library with me. But there was one day I showed up late to work in Casa. She brought me into her office and she's like you know what, jonathan, this is just not going to work. You're here late, you're not really doing your job, we're going to send you to maintenance. Right, shout out to Mason, who worked at Ozark at the time. He's the head of maintenance, and so I was like, oh cool, I can use my hands, I'm going to have access to other parts of the school. I get to fix things, I get to learn how to repair different stuff. This is what would be good for me. Well, it was, but also it wasn't.
Speaker 1:So fast forward. Let me guess you got keys to some different areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got keys to some different areas and If you guys don't know what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:in a boarding school, he who has the keys rules the world, because and you got to keep your when I'm working there I had to keep my head on a stool for those keys because if those keys disappear, there will be babies nine months from then. It's like you got to watch, watch out, so you got to hold some keys apparently.
Speaker 2:I got the keys. I got the keys, so then that just made things worse. I'm just seeking affirmation was wrong places. So that continues throughout my junior year. But fast forward to my senior year. Go back to Ozark. My girlfriend and I had broken up. I'm now single, enjoying that time, because now I feel like I can just be free. I can just make friends. I don't, you know not, it sounds bad, but I don't have to be committed in a relationship and I shouldn't have been in the first place. And now I'm just talking to everybody but I'm still keeping people at arms length. I still want to be a good guy, but I think I'm not right. I think I'm not. And throughout this time, god to me was still a good God. But I would always see people like Kastai should be up at front, because she was the chaplain at that time and she, she would get up in front talking about Jesus and it was just like waterfall. She would get this emotion in, like pure joy, and she would start crying. I was like what is this? Why is she crying? Like I've never experienced anything like this when talking about Jesus, and the joke was that once you get up there, it was like those game shows, you needed one of those little thing, those little podiums to pop up with a bunch of tissues, because we're like, oh, here she goes, she's going to start crying when she talks about Jesus. And so we just thought like especially myself, I was like that's fake, like someone without relationship with Jesus, that can't be real, like this is all a side, this is fake. And but I guess that was the first time that really planted that seed in my, in my mind. I'm like man, I mean, if someone can have that, how do you get that relationship right when it makes you just want to cry, the emotional and so thankful, like I always know God is a good God, but I feel like I have to earn his love type of thing right. So I thought that was never possible to have what she had and I never talked to her about it. But I was thought, man, she's different. You know you can tell that something was different about her. So senior year I was in band, I was playing basketball, the whole shebang. You know people are like oh, kimper, you know he's a good basketball player. You know I'm finding affirmation from that to you. I'm finding love from a lot from my performance, still struggling with being late to class, still living in that, that, that nasty cycle of deception. And so it's coming to the end of senior year, which is 2008,. Right, I'm 19 at the time, I'm an old, old senior. And they start musting us, you know, a couple of months before the end of the year what do you want to do with your life? What do you want to do with your life? And I, that's. Up to that point, I had never really thought about it. I was just kind of like, oh, let's go with the flow. I'm going to play basketball. My dream was to be in the NBA, right, but that got squashed pretty quick. When I couldn't dunk, I was like, no, there's no future for me here. And so I was like I probably should have a backup plan. And so we took this test about personality tests and it tells you okay, what is your personality? Where would you have the most success? Where would you enjoy working? And for me, it's so like medical field. You know you're, you're doing acts of service and you're helping people or teaching. And so give you a background my dad was an OBGYN and my mom was a nurse, and my oldest sister is she was a nurse well, she is a nurse in the ICU. And then my sister, lisa, she's a teacher. And so I was like, well, medical field or teaching, oh, those are good options. Do I really want to do both of those? I was like, oh, teachers, they don't get paid that much, but doctors, they don't even make some good thing. So maybe I should do that. And so take this test. I'm thinking about it. Graduation comes up right. So now it's summer 2008. And my parents are like, well, where do you want to go to college? So I send my transcripts out, my ACQ scores, sat scores, to all these colleges, and obviously it's going to be an Adventist college. And I'm thinking, I don't know. Southern, I have a reputation of being stuck up and just kind of snooty over there. Yeah, I had never been there, I had heard. I was like I'm not, I'm not about that, I don't know, I want to go there. And I was like, andrews, that's too far, that's cold Last year. So then you know my sisters they had been at Union and my mom had been. My mom and dad both went to Union and my grandparents on my dad's side went to Union. So I was like, oh man, third generation. Maybe I should go to Union College in Lincoln, nebraska, right? So I was like also my sister Lisa, she'll be there for her last year. That'll be kind of fun to be with her. So let's check this union thing out. So I get accepted, I'm going to Union College, right? Single heading in there, like this is going to be awesome, you know. But I got to stop the story right there real quick and go back to when my sisters, when Michelle, went to Union College, I was a young buck and I remember going there and watching her play basketball right, cause she was on the basketball team and I remember this is, this is Union College, it's glory days, right. It was like Matt Dow, carlos Matt. I think there's this guy named Richard Young. I don't know if he was riding a bench or if he was Glory to the bench. Yeah, glory to the bench. There you go. I remember and I was like man, that'd be so fun to play basketball at Union. And I remember watching the guys play, specifically, I was like man, this is awesome, I want this. And so I knew of you back then Because after basketball games we they would all go out to the Valentino's and the coaches would pay for everybody and my sister, everybody was sitting down and I remember you were just like cracking jokes. I was like who's this guy? So that's rich, he's funny, he's this, he's this cool guy. So that was my first, first, first introduction to kind of who you were. Anyway, this will all make sense here in a sec, 2008,. I'm going to Union College and my plan is, you know, I'm going to go into medicine. You know I want to do something in that field. But I also want to play basketball. I want to be a warrior for Coach Dots Legend Coach Dots, of course, love that guy. And so it was. I think at the beginning of the year they have these open gym nights where everybody would come out. Everybody in their mother would be there. They're trying to impress, you know, especially all the freshmen sophomores. They're like where's the back field when all the girls at oh I got to show out in the gym. You know, make a name for yourself. Well, I remember it, like it was like one of the first pick up nights and we were playing against each other. We were playing against each other and I was like, oh, I know this guy. He's famous for his little crossover and all this stuff. And I remember I was darting you and I forget what you said to me, but I was like man, I'm going to lock him up, I'm going to lock him up, he's not going to. I wasn't talking trash to you, was I? No, you weren't talking trash, but for me, I had seen you play and so I wanted to prove myself. I was like man, I want that affirmation, you know, because I'm seeking it from all the wrong places. So I was like I'm going to lock him up, I'm going to play this hard defense and all this stuff. So I think I played decent. I don't think you props me.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, man, I remember this very well. I remember it very well. I think and sorry if you guys aren't interested in this part I pride myself back then on being able to shake anybody and everybody. And the first time I tried my crossover on you, you bit like if someone, if someone, fully biting is like a hundred percent, you bit 11 percent, so barely anything. And then you were right back on me and you were super strong and I was like if that's all he, if that's all I have on my first move on him, like what do I have on this guy? And I was upset because you were so strong and like you were good and I was like, oh man, this is, this is not going to be fun if on my first move, this is what happens, and for the rest of our time playing against each other, anytime I could shake you, I'd be like, oh wow, I could, that's a good one, because camp is a great defender. So from the beginning I was like this guy's an athlete.
Speaker 2:And maybe that sounds going back. I don't know if you ever shook me, which not as joking you definitely did. There were times. There were times.
Speaker 1:I could never just like once or twice. That's how, how good of a defender you were.
Speaker 2:No, that was, yeah, that was. Those were good times. But I remember going up against you and I was like wanting to prove myself and I was just like man, this rich guy, you know, everybody looks up to him. I've heard things about him Like I just wanted to make a good impression, right. Anyway, I say that to say this, right that no matter what I was doing, whether I was seeking that affirmation from girls or whether it was during basketball or anything, I needed that love and acceptance right In some way or the other, right. So we had that interaction, that kind of set the tone. I'm going into thinking that I'm going to walk. I did try out for the basketball team and we had practices and I think it was what late August I think, when when coach puts out the team and I make the team right. So I make a big deal, it's a big deal. It is a big deal. It is a freshman and there was a lot of big names there Jeff, jeff ticker or somebody was still there, one of the ticker brothers, right. And there was, yeah, there's just some good ballers, some good ballers right, growing in. Essentially, here I am a freshman making the team like man. This is an accomplishment. This is making me feel good, I'm feeling accepted, I'm feeling loved, and so, going into the first practice, first practice I remember this digitally. There was shout out to you, brock, I love you man. But there was this guy named Brock and a big, strong guy, and someone had stopped and they missed. And I was on the opposite side. I got the rebound I'm going to outlet the pass and Brock, he was one of those guys that plays really hard and I was like oh see, oh see, how to control. Yeah, oh yeah. He has a high motor, as they would say in football. They got a motor and he kind of lost his balance going for this rebound. And I had got it and I'm going to pivoting, I'm going to outlet the ball and he falls and all his body weight goes through my leg, that is planted inside and he's like 200 something pounds. He just takes my knee out and, I kid you not, that is the worst pain that I've ever felt in my life and at that moment I said every curse word. There was no man, probably, I felt like, and there was people in the stands. They were watching the light. Oh shoot, what just happened? And I looked down and I'm like something's not right. I'm in this pain. Practice stops. Coach comes over and he's like you all right, kim, I'm like I don't know. I looked down and my leg, if you think of, like a grandfather clock. I've had no control. It was just like this. I could not control my knee whatsoever. No control. And, long story short, that freshman year I had blown out my MCL and PCL, grade three where I had to have reconstructive surgery and, mind you, I'm wanting to go into the medical field. So this is the beginning of school, I'm like I'm going to go out and take these science classes, I'm going to kill it. But this kind of puts the stopgap in that, because now it's oh, you got to have surgery, you got to go to class, you have to be on these meds. That were nice, I'm not going to lie. They take the pain away. But I really couldn't study, I couldn't learn, so I was falling behind, and so then that played into oh well, I'm not good enough, I don't have what it takes. You know I'm a failure, right. And so now you have I'm already struggling with oh, I feel like I'm not a good dude. I'm looking for love in all the wrong places. Now, when it comes to the academic side of things, I feel like I'm doubting myself and I feel like I'm not good enough because I'm falling behind. So now you have this double landing and there's just really no hope in sight at this point.
Speaker 1:So when you got to union, was there like a new lease on life, like all of the mistakes from high school. You're just like I'm going to be a different dude. Did you think like that, or were you already like? No, this is kind of who I am. I'm kind of stuck in this rut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. That was definitely my thinking. I was like this is a new start. I'm going to be a different person. I'm going to be a good dude. You know, I'm going to earn God's love. I'm going to show him that he can love me. That was my mindset. That was my mindset going into it. But to start the year off like that was not good. That did not help. Plus, you know, here you are in this ocean of wonderful people, beautiful girls, and I'm like, well, now that I have this going for me, I kind of resorted back to that old pattern of seeking affirmation in all the wrong places, especially from girls. But at the same time, then, you know, freshman year, we would have what was it called? Asv events, Where's the student body association, whatever? Or maybe we would put on these events and I would have people wanting to give you like, oh, Kim, let's go into this thing, let's do this, let's go hang out. And because I thought I wasn't a good guy and because I didn't think people could love me, if they really know you and I was going through, I would always keep people at arms length, Right. And so that impacted the relationships in my life of people that wanted to get to know me and have those good friendships. I was pushing away Because that's, you know, that's with my feeling of man. I don't know what I want to do in life. I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Now that's down the drain. So what am I going to do, Right? So, fast forward to, you know, the next year in college. I'm like, well, if I'm not going to do medicine, I might as well get into teaching. You know Lisa's here, Lisa was there and you know she had graduated. And now I'm thinking, well, I might as well try the education program. So I'm like all right, let me give that a try. And it's really cool, you and me shout out to Union College because they do a great job of putting you in the classroom that as soon as you declare that's what you want to do, they have a class where they get you into schools just to kind of observe teachers to see if this is what you want to do. I wasn't fully committed but I was like, oh what, what else am I going to do? So, 2009, it starts taking classes, taking generals, taking some education class here, because I think that's what I want to do Not sure. Still dealing with the cycle of keeping people out of Arms Lake right. Still seeking confirmation from girls on the basketball team, but I'm not having a lot of success because I'm, my rehab isn't going well and so I feel like I'm a failure there, and so there's all these things going on and it's just this cocktail of I'm never going to get out of this. This is the cycle. I'm going to be a failure. Like you know, I could do medicine, so now I got to turn to education, right? Nothing against educators, but I don't think that's as difficult to become a teacher as it is to be a doctor.
Speaker 1:It just isn't, yeah, it just isn't, and so you don't make as much money either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So now I'm struggling with kind of the identity of, well, who do I want to be? What do I want to do in life? Well, that kind of is the cycle up until going to classes taking generals, still living that same cycle until about 2000. I would say it's probably 2000 and 11, I want to say, and so I'm in this education thing, I decided this is what I want to do, because I feel like there's no other option, and so I feel kind of like a failure. Well, I'm not living up to my potential because I could do more of do a job that's going to be soon as important, right, I'm going to get that acceptance, I'm going to get that affirmation, I'm going to make that money.
Speaker 1:I think at this point you had already developed your reputation at school.
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure, I can elaborate on that too, but go ahead yeah.
Speaker 1:And this is. There's a few vivid memories I remember of you, and this is probably the one in the middle and I was coaching on the team. I was the assistant coach and this is the year this might have been Tyler's. Oh, this might have been when you were a little older, okay, so this was like Tyler's junior year or something, and I was the assistant coach and we needed people to play on the team and we were looking, we were looking rough and I'm like man Kemper can play dude, and I was like begging you to play on the team. But I think you had been so low and you had kind of alienated yourself because of your reputation, which and the reputation was pretty simple you were a ladies guy and I remember we were outside of the Thunderdome and you were really, I think, because I had wanted you to play and Dodds had wanted you to play, and Tyler had wanted you to play, and all these guys on the team wanted you to play. I think you were like, yeah, I want to. You know these guys were looking at me, they see something in me, and so you had tried. But then all this other stuff in your life was coming at you so fast and you tell me if I'm wrong. I remember talking to you about it and you're just like I just can't do it, and it felt like you were letting me down. I felt like that's how you felt, like kind of your head was hanging and I was like no man. You know, I was kind of just thinking about myself and the team, like, oh, I got to get this guy. And when you were, when you couldn't do it, I was like and what is going on with this guy? And I felt really bad. But I'm like this dude is fighting a bunch of stuff that I don't really know about. I feel like this is kind of the time you're am I wrong about this? I don't know if you remember this time in your life.
Speaker 2:No, I do remember that bitch. Well, yeah, I was going through a lot and I felt like I was letting you guys down because so to have you and Dodge and Tyler and people wanted me to be a part of this. That made me feel good in a way, but at the same time I was like man, you know I'm just this bad guy. You know I want to, I want to do what's right. But here I am again keeping everybody at harm's length, right, because I'm like if they know who I really am, they're going to judge me and they're going to see that I'm a, I'm a fraud. You know I'm this other guy. You know I come across as nice and personable, but I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when, like the word of like. You know how girls talk and it gets around like oh, kemper's about this and you hear back like this is what people think about me. What did that do to you? How did that hit you?
Speaker 2:Oh, man Like that, yeah, that hurts. You know that hurts because it's like man, I really am this bad guy. But throughout that, all throughout, all of that, like I didn't want that reputation.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I didn't want that reputation, but that was how I medicated, you know, to that cycle of like on this bad dude. So I need to go medicate, I need to go talk to this girl and seek affirmation in that way and to give you more light about how bad that was. I want to say this was 2011 and I'm not living in Cooper's apartments yet. I'm still in the dorm right and during this time there's these, these guys that are. There was one of the teammates, I think, that was on the team and he had keys to the gym and I remember this vividly. I, during that time coach, was like well, if you want to get up extra shots, you can go to the gym at any time and get some shots up better your game. And so the one of the captains on the team had the keys to the gym and I was like hey, can I borrow the keys? I'm going to get some shots up tonight. But that wasn't my plan. My plan was to take a girl there and be in the gym, because I didn't have a place to go.
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 2:So I'm, I'm yeah, I'm still in the dorm, so I have these keys. It's probably, I don't know nine o'clock and I go to the gym. You know there's security, driving around, a little security card, you know making sure everything is good. You know a little flashlight and I get in the gym and I'm like hey, meet me at the side door. And so she comes, let her in the side door, and we're in the gym for I don't know five, 10 minutes. And then I hear the keys being. I'm like oh, shoot, it's coming in. Uh-oh, this isn't good. And so the door opens and it's like someone's like is anyone in there? We know you're in there, who's in there? And I'll stay silent. You're staying silent and eventually they're like we know you're in there, we have, and it's the cops, it's the police, and they're like we have, we, yeah, we have dogs. We know you're in there, we're going to unleash the dogs. If you don't, you know, say that you're in there. I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, we're in here. And so they come in the lights all the gym lights are off. They're coming in with the dogs. The dogs are barking, the flashlights are going and I'm just up there on the stage and this poor girl is, is up here, is in there with me, right. And they come up, they sign the flashlight on me and they come up, they put. They put me down, face down on the gym on the gym, on the gym stage, and they're like putting my hands behind my back, like this. I'm laying on the on the stage and then coach comes up there, raw dogs, they sign a flashlight on me and coaches like Kimper I still remember it to this low the disappointment in his voice of like no way, kimper, is that you and I was just like yeah, coach, it's me. He's like what are you doing in here? I was like oh, you know, I got the keys and I brought a girl in here. You know I shouldn't have done that. And so the cops at that time were like are you good, do you want us to take them? And Dodds was like no, I got it, I got it. So the cops leave right? So, to give you some context, behind that there had been some vandalizing going on in the community at that time. People were breaking into other places and stealing stuff, and so one of the security guards they saw me, they saw us go into the side door and so they thought someone was breaking into the gym. So they called Dodds and Dodds calls the cops, and the cops come thinking that they're going to catch this guy that has been stealing. Well, it's me right. And so I remember walking out of the gym with Dodds my head is just low like this. I feel bad. I've embarrassed this girl. Oh, my goodness, what's going to happen? They're going to kick me out of school. And I remember looking, I'm walking with Dodds and there's this desk at Prescott. When you come in the dorm you have to check in. Well, the captain was working the desk and he looks at me and I look at here and I'm just like you can see the disappointment in his face. Like what in the world is going on? I'll let someone else down. And at this time I'm thinking, well, I'm going to get, we're going to kick me out of Union College. This is, I'm going to embarrass my family. No, like this is so embarrassing. I already have this reputation of just using girls, being a womanizer. This just makes it so much worse. And so, long story short, I don't think, and thank goodness, no one knew like the identity of the girl, like Union did a great job of protecting her. But people knew it was me and I was fine. Just let them know it was me, coach, like I'm fine with that. And so I was like what's going to happen? And coach, just like, don't worry, you know like it's going to be okay. We're going to have a meeting tomorrow. I don't know what's going to happen, but I just want to let you know that I love you. I was like what you love me? What are you talking about, coach? You know, how could you love a guy that's doing these things? And so they had their meeting. Long story short, a lot of people weren't happy, but coach was one of the people that stood up for me in that meeting and he's like Kim's a good guy, he's a good dude, you know, I'll take care of it and so all day. And so I had to be on in school suspension I think it was for two or three days where I had to stay in the dean his office and do all my work. And then I had to call home and let my parents know what happened. Well, this is where it's even worse is because, you know, I forget who was it, and dean of academics or someone was like, hey, how'd you call your parents about this? And I'm like, well, this is embarrassing, I can't let my parents know. So I got a lie. I got a lie about this and say it's just not a good time. My grandpa passed away and my parents are still greeting. Yeah Right, I start lying to try to cover the sevens and to not have more embarrassment with my family. So I can't call them like now, I'll call them later. And luckily thank God, you know, I never had to call. I'll never have to call them. But that just shows like the spot that I was in. I was willing to lie to make myself, you know, to, to, to spare myself from more embarrassment and shame. So that's just a crazy story. And I just but I remember thinking through that whole thing Coach was like I love you, it's going to be okay. And from that point on, 2011, because I was at Union for a while, which I'm not going to lie I changed my major a few times, changed my major a few times. That cycle continued throughout graduation, which was 2015. I failed some classes. I had to take some years, a year off, because if you fail a core class, they don't offer it in the fall. And then you have to come back in the spring and take it, and so that extended my my years to seven years at Union College, which was I had my doctorate. I'm good, but through that whole ordeal there's, there's more to it. I'm struggling with all that stuff. Dodds. Dodds is a believable me. He's always, he was always there for me. So I remember vividly before we transition into the next phase of the story, real quickly, is that my senior year, before my senior year, one of my seniors, because I had two, because I was a super, super senior I started to develop anxiety when it came to school. Of course I'm living in this cycle. I'm feeling like I'm not going to be good enough. He's teaching good enough. I'm not going to be able to support my family. I kind of settled for teaching. I'll really feel like God is leading me to it. I just kind of picked it. So now here I am, my senior year, doing my practicum in core classes, and I'm getting this anxiety and this, this fear of like I'm not good enough. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to be a failure, I'm this bad dude. And so I started not showing up to my observations, right when you have to go and you observe another teacher and I started lying about it on my logs that I had to turn in to my professor to show that we're getting so many hours for observations. Well, teacher knows.
Speaker 1:It's not that hard to figure that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they like, they email my professor at the time, which was Tim Simon, and then later Sharon Russell. Uh, hey, this guy was not showing up, um, but yet I'm lying on my logs and I'm filling out my forms saying that I am. So this is another problem. So now it's, it's, it's being taken to the academic dean and they're like well, you're lying, you've failed. Do we still want to have you in this program? And I'm like, oh man, like I already I almost was kicked out of union once, I can't be kicked out now. And so at that point in time I was dealing with all this anxiety was too much. And so they started having me talk to Stan Hart, great guy at the school and counsel a lot of young men, and so I was talking to him about some of the things I was going through, and that helps for a while. And I remember talking to Linda Becker. I'm like, oh please, you know, just just have faith in me. I promise like I'll go see Stan and I'll have some counseling and he'll help me get through this. Just don't quit on me. And I remember staring Russell, oh man, bless, bless her soul. Um, she took me into her office and it was a lot like dots. She sat me down and she was just real with me. She was like John, okay, what is going on here? And I remember not getting her details, but just kind of telling her enough so that she knew, but without really getting too personal and just crying my eyes out Because I was a guy that wanted help. But I can never really tell Stan or anybody what I was really going through because I felt like they would never. They would have loved me and accepted me for who I was. So, long story short, linda Buggers, sharon Russell, Academic gain. They're like, okay, we're going to let you finish this program, but under these conditions. So I had more conditions that I had to. You know, I had to check in and I had to make sure I was submitting my stuff. Long story short, I finished it right. 2015,. I finished my school right. I'm done, man, I've graduated. At this point my parents are like probably thinking, hallelujah, we finished right. And my parents, they don't know any of the stuff that I'm going through. They just think that I'm someone that doesn't know what he wants to do in life. Right, and so there are. Of course, my parents are loving and very supportive. But at this point my dad's like, okay, son, you need to figure this out right. And they've been paying for my college for the last couple of years, like we're not going to pay for it. You got to pay for it. So now I have even more pressure, being like, okay, I had to pay for this. I'm, bills are pounding up. What am I going to do? So I finished and now it's what am I going to do? Where am I going to work? What job am I going to get? Who's going to give me a good recommendation? You know, I'm this guy. That's been a failure, hasn't lived up to my potential. I don't believe in myself. I'm already feeling like oh, I settled for teaching when I could do something so much where what I feel is so much more important, of worldly value, because I want to see, be seen as this guy that is doing good things and all these big things right. I want to be seen as smart, accepted, love, all that right. So it's 2000, summer 2016. I'm back in clean Texas and like, well, where am I going to work? So I'm praying about it. And I'm like, okay, I know I should pray about it. You know, I see my mom and dad do it. You know you need college to like play about it. You know, trust God he'll provide. I'm like, yeah, okay, all right, so I pray about it. It's probably end of June and it's getting towards the mid, maybe middle of June. I still don't have a job offer. I'm like, well, if I want to work in the happiness system, this isn't looking good and I don't want to work in public school. So that next week I want to say it was the week, yeah, it was like the 24th of June or something I get two phone calls. One phone call was from an ad in a school up North where it's really cold, and another was from a school in the Pacific Northwest in Oregon. And I'm already thinking off the top I don't want to go to that school up North because it's it's small, right, I'm going to be isolated, it's cold and bad winters. But what's the school about out in Oregon, you know? So I interviewed some more in the school of North. I interview with the school in Oregon. The school in Oregon flies me out there, right, and while I'm out there I'm looking at the school. The position was going to be I'm going to be an athletic director, which in the out in the system. If you're a PE teacher, that's, that's golden. If you're an athletic director and teaching PE, whoa, you hit the jackpot, right. And so I'm looking at the school is about 360 kids K to eighth grade right, I'm like, yeah, this is, this is the dream, wow, you know. And while I'm out there, I get a job offer from the school up North, right. So I tell them I was like, thank you so much. Um, actually, I'm out here interviewing at no school too. I want to keep my options open. I was very honest, and so I go to sleep that night. I had seen the school in Oregon. They put me up in a hotel. Um, go to sleep the next morning, right, I'm at the airport and they call me, you know, like, hey, we want to, we want to extend this offer to come out here and be our athletic director and teach kindergarten to a PE. How does that sound? I was like, oh, I would love, I would love that and try to play it, cool. Um, we're going to pray about it. Um, look, can I get back to you tomorrow, you know, but no one getting. Well, I'm going to take that job. And so I have to call the school up North. Let them know, because I have the job offer. I said, hey, you know, I have the Southern offer, I'm going to take it. Thank you so much for giving me a chance and being willing to interview me, but I feel like this is where God is taking me. So I moved out to summer 2016. I moved out to Portland, oregon, right, and so this kind of starts the next chapter of the story, right? So at this time, I still feel like I have to earn God's love. I'm still feeling as though I'm this bad dude. But here, here's a, here's a chance to have another start. Okay, I can start over again. People don't know me, no one knows my reputation out here from college. Like that feeling was refreshing because I was like I'm going to. This is my first time, like really branching off on my own. I'm going to do my own thing, I'm going to make a good name for myself, like you know. And so I start teaching and I'm loving it. I'm loving it and I'm I'm organizing the athletics. I'm teaching. They sent me up with a mentor there that had been teaching on another avenue school, um, for several years. In in this guy, you could tell, like he was locked in Vienna, a relationship with Jesus, just how he walked and how he talked and his how he, how he treated everybody. I was like this guy is different. This is the mentor that I need, right. But it was still lonely. I didn't know anybody. Uh, I still kind of kept people out of distance. I remember some of the teachers. They would one teacher she would take me out to to dinner with her family and I would get to know them. And then some of my students, parents, would ask me what are you doing on Sabbath? You know, come, come, go hiking with us. And I would always make up an excuse. Rich, I'd make an excuse for like, oh, we have plans, wow, no, I already have. I'm going to go to this church. Thank you, though. I really appreciate it. And so people wanted to get to know me, but I was still like, wow, you can't love me, you can't love me, I'm just by a guy. Um, well, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just really grateful for it. And so that cycle continued and plus, you know, in Portland, oregon, there's not a lot of sunshine. There's not a lot of sunshine. Um, shout out to everyone in Portland hey, you know um great place when it's sunny, but I couldn't handle the rain. I grew up in Texas, so I like the sunshine. And so there's that combination of I'm already down kind of in the dumps, I'm trying to make it, trying to navigate it, and then it's gloomy, so I'm feeling depressed, like kind of depressed, kind of sad. I'm just sad puppy, like oh, I'm so lonely, right. So then one of the same continues. Like some girls they come visit me that I had previously known from growing up in London, texas, and then another from I knew from back in the day they come visit me. Same old story, trying to find love in all the wrong places. But while I'm there, people don't stop trying to get to know me. I remember going to church and sitting in the pew and going to Sabbath school, and then people are like, hey, we're having this young adult potluck. We really like you to come make it up. I'll make up an excuse. Oh, sorry, I can already have plans. And so then I would just make me more like down in the dumps of like oh man, I can never get out of this cycle that I'm in. I don't want anybody to really know who I am and all the things that I'm doing. I can't ask anybody for help. I can't reach out to anybody because they're just going to judge me. How can you love me, right? And so that cycle just continues and continues and it's really sad. It is really sad because so many good people and I don't love and regret now, but, looking back on it, there's so many good people that I could have fallen relationships with, but I didn't because I was living in this deception in the cycle. Yeah, you want me to keep going.
Speaker 1:No man, I'm, as you're talking, I feel like you know. So much more is coming into my mind about what's about to happen and it's kind of just blowing my mind that I've seen all of this. So no, I've just been thinking if you've seen me looking at my phone, I was actually looking at our old text messages because I'm like what is the date on this? What is the date on this? Yeah, no man. So yeah, keep going. You're up in that foolishness and trying to find love in all the wrong places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was towards the end. So I started working at this school in summer 2016. Well, now it's spring 2017. Right, I'm loving my job. Right, everybody would. When I was working at that school, the principal would be like hey, do you want to be an administrator someday? Because I think you'd be great at it. I think you'd be a great principal, like. It got to the point where the conference was investing in me for leadership, and so they were having me go to the conference office with Ben Longquist he don't know who. That is Great guy.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's the man, the man.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting in meetings with him and other leadership and Ian, I was just like what am I doing here? Like I shouldn't be here, like I don't know anything about leadership, I don't know how to be a leader, like why am I here? Like I'm the worst person in this room, I'm the biggest center, like I'm living a double life. But they were taking that time to invest in me because they believed in me, but I didn't believe in myself anyway. So I was thinking I was going to stay late, like that was going to be a good, the squirrels going to be after the next 10, 15 plus years, probably. Right, well, god has a funny way of going about his, his will for your life, right? And so I get a call throwback to when I was at Ozark 2007, 2008,. Kasey was the chaplain at Ozark. She's also my boss. She's the one that fired me at high school. I get a call. I'm sitting in my office I think I'm working on athletic schedules and I'm like who's turning the basketball uniforms, trying to collect and all that stuff? And I get a call. I'm like Kyle, I don't know Area code, like who's this? And so I answer it and it's like hey, jonathan, this is Kasey Vuneleva. I'm like Kasey, hey, she's like hey, I'm just reaching out because we were thinking and we've had a vacancy open up for next year and we were wondering if you'd love to come teach PE on my Ohio Academy. And give you some context, my sister lived in, lives in Denver and she worked at my Ohio Academy at the time teaching high school science. So here I am. I have a really good relationship with my sisters. I'm like, wow, you know, thank you so much. Like when I think about this, I really love the school that I'm at, but I would love to be able to let me pray about it. So here I am. People love me at this school. You know I've I'm not thinking they're not being there for one year through weeks. You know that's especially an athletic director position at a really nice school, and so I feel like, well, my sister's there, phone is there, beautiful Colorado mountains, and like my whole high is the dream. Like, yes, so I call it back later that week. I'm better now. Yeah, like I would love to be there. Let the school administration know where I'm working. You know they're sad, sad to see me go because they saw a lot of potential. You know they were already trying to invest in me to be a leader and all that good stuff. So I moved to Denver, colorado, but during that summer Okay, during that summer I had, I had a not relationship, but I got into a situation that I shouldn't have been in when I was talking to one of my students moms, who was married at the time from that school that I had previously taught it so, and there was nothing physical, it was just awesome, inappropriate texts and things of that nature. And so that happened that summer while I was moving. Well, that goes right before you're moving to Colorado. Yeah, by before I moved to Colorado, that happens. Right, this woman that's married and I had taught her her kids. So, terrible, terrible, terrible. But that's the place I was in. I was like, well, I need that affirmation, I need that attention, I need that love, here's another place that I can get it. And I wasn't really thinking about the consequences at that time. You know I had that reputation from college. You know I'd started new. But here I am, you know, falling back, still doing those same things, but now it's, I crossed the line that I never thought I would cross, and so now I'm feeling really bad, but also like well, it's ended, so everything's okay, right, um, and so when this was someone who's married and you go across a line that you never thought you would.
Speaker 1:um, what, what, what did that say about you? Like, what did you do? Did you go further, like, like, or was it like I got to put the brakes on this, like I never thought this would be a possibility?
Speaker 2:No, I was. I was the one that was continuing the push for the conversations and things of that nature and because I was like man, this is like a married woman Wow, Like she would want to be invested in me. Wow, Like that's. That says something. Like man, maybe I am lovable, you know, like that someone that's in this relationship which was a toxic mentality and thought process to has. But that was my thinking. So I was kind of, you know, instigating and kind of leading the conversations and inappropriate things were said and just a bunch of stuff that shouldn't happen, Right, Right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So fast forward. After that, I'm moving to I'm in the process of moving to Denver. So I get to Denver and at the time summer 2017, cause he's like, hey, you know, there's this guy, uh, this, that's the recruiter for our school named Derek Baker, and I had gone to school with Derek Baker at Ozark and at Union College. I had played in a males with him. I was his classmate.
Speaker 1:Love Derek Baker. He's the man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good guy, good guy. I wasn't really close with him, but you were cordial. You know, we played sports together. We all give relationship, but we weren't close friends, right, and he was the recruiter at that time. And cause a at that moment, was trying to expand model high, and so she was trying to bring in a lot of foreign exchange sites from China and sort. Derek's job at that time was to show these foreign exchange students the Denver area. Right, oh, you want to come to school here because these are all the things you could do. And so, cause they asked me to help Derek. Right, and so I was like, oh, I can do that. So we played, come to several, several hikes like devil's head. We'd take him to a Rockies game and we took him to Pearl street, right, and now this is where I eventually see my wife for the first time. Okay, so this is. This is summer 2017. I'm still dealing with everything that I'm dealing with, still living that double life, but I'm like man, god is good. I'm here in Denver, colorado, and blessed with this great job. I don't know how I have it, but I do Right, right, so then I'll fast forward to when I first saw my hope venture white. So we're on Pearl Street showing the foreign exchange students in Boulder, colorado, showing them around and taking them getting some food and stuff. Well, during that time I'm six years older than my wife, so during that time she is working on Glacier View Ranch and, for those that don't know, it's a summer camp up in the Rocky Mountains and so a lot of college students work there from Union College in the summer and she was dating someone at the time and I remember being with Derek on Pearl Street and I knew who she was dating, but I wasn't really close friends with him, but I knew him because he was in some of my education classes, because I was at Union for so long. So we're talking, I'm talking to him, and then I see this girl. I'm like who is this girl? Man, she's beautiful. But at the same time I was thinking she looked kind of like she was stuck up. So I was judging her hardcore. I was like man, she looks like she's stuck up, like a mean girl. She's one of those mean girls you know, like oh.
Speaker 1:I'm just a posthumous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was popular. But I was like, yeah, she's gorgeous. And so in my head I'm thinking, wow, that's awesome, you're dating this girl. I didn't say that to him. She looks like she's beautiful, she's working at camps, so she loves kids, so I thought that was cool. So that was my first interaction with her. I never was introduced to her so I didn't even talk to her, which was really weird, because we saw each other. No one introduced us. Her family was there Her mom and her siblings, because it was her day off. Anyway, I don't think anything of it. So summer in school starts, I'm teaching and still kind of struggling with same-cycle stuff, seeking affirmation in the wrong places. But then September I think it was September 23rd I get a friend request and now, several years later, so now I'm on Facebook. It's still the cool thing for young people.
Speaker 1:It was cool, trust me.
Speaker 2:It was cool, trust me, yeah, yeah, and I get this friend request. I'm like hope's, they jacked what this looks like, the girl that I saw in Perch Street. But well then, she's dating this dude, and so it was her birthday on the 21st and I get that request on the 23rd of September. So, I see it, it's like Saturday, so I think it's a Sabbath. It's Saturday, ok, saturday. And so I messaged her, since I'm at some of that, and so I'm like, hey, see that it was your birthday, happy birthday and happy late birthday and also happy Sabbath. I said that was pretty much it, and so that kind of started that dialogue between us. So now I'm teaching at this awesome school, I'm teaching with my sister, I'm the assistant athletic director, I'm teaching physical education, preschool through 12th grade, the whole shebang, and so I'm loving it Living in Denver, colorado. The school is right there, the Rockies are in the background. This is paradise, this is God's country. Life is amazing, but I'm still struggling with trying to hide that other life. I don't want anybody to find out about that. So, still living that double life, but I'm also talking to her, but with her I'm trying to do things differently Because I had never really been one to really get into the dating relationships. That just wasn't my thing Because I was like, ah, nah, I'm a bad dude, so no one's going to want to date me, so I'm just going to stick to these little flings and things that don't mean anything. So we start talking and she's in a nursing program, I'm working at Mile High and I think Mile High we sent our volleyball team to Union College to play in a tournament where they play other schools, and so I was like, oh, what a great opportunity to go meet her for the first time and hang out. So I go down there, I meet her for the first time. I think we and it was kind of awkward Because she was sitting with her friends and I started to get flashbacks of my reputation at Union. And so she came in the gym with her friends and she was sitting there and I pretended like I didn't see her Rich, because I'm thinking like, nah, man, people know my reputation, I'm not a good dude. I was really psyching myself out. But she didn't know this about me, she didn't know my reputation at that point, or she didn't know all of it. But here I am. I'm having these flashbacks to when I'm in college and I'm keeping people's arms this distance, I'm keeping people away because I think they're judging me. And so I see her, I ignore her. She ends up leaving and then I text her. I'm like, hey, where are you at? Like I didn't see her. So I heard her good friend are like that is weird, so weird. And then it hopes like what should I do? And everyone's like, oh, you should go back in there. So she goes back in there and I'm like, hey, good to see you, Give her a hug, we start talking and then we end up hanging out that weekend. And that weekend Morgan and Tyler they had a little apartment and they weren't there that weekend, and so we had a cool place to crash Not crash, but just hang out the night watching me or whatever. And so we're hanging out, just getting to know each other. And I was like and this girl, this is a good vibe Like it's just different, like I don't want to mess this up, like I would really like her. She seems like quality, she's single, she's just man. I'm a lucky dude, right, she already. She only knew my past man. And so at that point, usually when you try to do something different. It's just the pendulum swings too far, right, where you're like you're doing things one way, oh, it goes to the opposite extreme. And so now, after that visit where our relationship is progressing, and I'm at the point where I'm like I don't know if I even want a whole hands or kiss, because I'm trying to do things differently. I want things to be right, like I want this to be right, I want this to work. So bad, right. So now it's probably like end of November, end of November, right, and we're talking and I had asked her out, and so now we're dating. It's official, she's in Union College, she's at Union College in Lincoln, nebraska. I'm in Denver, right. So there's that distance. But during this time, right, I'm in this relationship. I'm still seeking that affirmation from other girls, I'm still doing my thing, living that double life.
Speaker 1:When did we talk at? Was this at the basketball tournament? And this is another vivid memory that I have.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's coming up. It's coming up. I'm getting to that OK.
Speaker 1:Because hope is my student worker, I think for half a year or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, stop OK.
Speaker 1:And so I had been to Camp Pass, right at Glacier View, and I got to know Hope and just like she was this special person, we're all like Hope's this great person. And then we're like she's dating Camp, Like whoa, what's that all about? That was the mindset.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I was always rooting for you, but we weren't tight or anything like that, but I was always rooting for you, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that was my mindset when I heard about you guys dating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and rightfully so, like I would agree, you know, like I shouldn't have been anywhere near dating relationship at that point, just because I had enough stuff going on. And so it's, you know, obviously get confirmation of the wrong places, but yet we're dating, and so here's the cycle again where, in this relationship, you know, we're putting God first. I'm doing, I'm trying to do everything right to let her know that in myself, know that I can do a relationship the right way and I can be a good person so God can love me right, and to show her that I do really care about her, because I had never done that with a girl before, I had never, like, shown her and done things the right way. And so she found out she eventually a course, your sins come to light and she found out that I was not being faithful and that was not good, that was not good bitch, you know, bad. She wasn't good Because it caused a lot of pain, a lot, so much pain to her. You know, here she is thinking man, this guy is everything that you know. These are her words. These are her words. Podcasts, ok, everything that I've wanted. Right, he's a good guy, a good, you know, solid teaching career. He swoops like he's religious, like he puts God first, but that was just the facade. Like I wanted those oh well, do things the right way and I would put on this act. But then I would go back into that mindset. So then that caused a lot of trust issues and, as we know, when you have that was the start of it, when you have trust issues, it's really, really hard to come back from that. It's really hard to come back from that. But, being a loving person that she was OK, she forgave me. We talked about it. I tried to. You know, I was like how should I do that? I explained to her. I was like, look, with you, it's different. It's with you, it's different. I'm not, I'm trying to do things the right way and for her, an eally person in the right mind, is like that doesn't make any sense, because if you were, you wouldn't be living the same lifestyle. You would be one way all the time, right. But in my head I was like well, with you, I'm this way. You know what I really mean it. I really mean it. Just believe it. But that's who's going to believe that when, here I am within this double life, right, did you believe it? No, I really liked her Like. I believe that like with her, everything was genuine. It was genuine and I was doing everything because I really cared about her. I wanted to make sure that she was valued and just really treated her with a lot of respect. But that lifestyle you can't. It becomes really tiring to try to meet two people and live two different lives.
Speaker 1:So that's what I mean. Did you believe that you were changing, or were you like man? I really like this girl so much that I want to change so badly. I want to be that guy and because I like her so much, I'm going to be the guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was, that was my motivation, because I really liked, really liked her and she deserved that, she deserved the best. And so, yeah, that was kind of my mindset, like I'm going to do this because I, like you know she needs that, I want to show her that this is who I am. So you know she forgives me. And then that Christmas comes around and I'm like, hey, why don't you come meet the fan, which is kind of soon, right, it's kind of soon. So, all that happens, she comes to Colleen Texas, to meet the fan, the two sisters, dad and mom, and my mom loves her. You know like she's great. Like you know hopes, personable, she can get along with anybody. Great conversation with my mom Like she's helping. You know things that you do with the in-laws, you're making a good impression, right, with everybody. My sisters like her. My sisters are like man. You know my parents are like this is the first girl that he's brought home. He really likes you and this is a big thing for Jonathan. Now, fast forward to February 2018. Okay, it's basketball tournament. Okay, so, just like volleyball tournament. Now, like I'm coaching varsity girls basketball at my high, we bring our team over to Lincoln, nebraska, to play the other Adventist high schools and it's Valentine's weekend, but I'm also responsible since our athletic director didn't come. I'm responsible for everyone, since I'm an assistant athletic director, so I'm trying to coordinate schedules with parents with tools, let them know where they should be, where they should play, while also I'm coaching and trying to spend time with hope.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot, man, it's a lot. And she was great. She was my number one fan. I think she made a shirt like saying go coach camper, number one, something like that. So I was like, man, this is awesome to have a woman that's so supportive. I guess I've never had that. So anyway, it was Valentine's weekend.
Speaker 1:Like your first legit girlfriend in like since high school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I had always just kind of had non serious relationships. Rich. Yeah, so she was. She was kind of like the first one that I was like I'm going to be serious, right. So there was a lot of there's. There was a lot of learning on the fly, a lot of learning. So it's Valentine's weekend. I have all these things on my plate and I'm like, shoot, what am I going to do? I don't have a gift. And so she, she buys me these Chocos, and I've had any, anything rich, not a corn, no flowers, no candy, no gift. And we had to go to the grocery store to pick up something for, I don't know, one of the team members needed something. So I'm at King's super and I'm at the checkout line. I'm like I got nothing. And then I see these dooms last minute buying flowers and I'm like, well, I don't got anything for her, but if I bought flowers at the last minute, that's going to look even worse. That was my thinking, cause it's it's, it's not that timid Think about this. And so I'm like, no, I don't need flowers, I'm not going to get anything. So I go back to the car later that night and we had nothing for her. We're hanging out and she's she's really heard about this. She's like I got nothing. This is Valentine's Day and you didn't get anything like nothing, a cord, flowers, nothing. And I was like I'm sorry, babe, I didn't get nothing. I thought it would be worse if I, if I, got something last minute. And she was just like, oh my goodness, this guy right here. So she calls later, she calls her mom, her mom, and she starts telling her mom he didn't get me anything for Valentine's Day. So now I'm looking, my capul, my, my, my, my, my, my mom. And the fan, bam. I'm like, oh Lord, let me dig my grave right now. This is embarrassing. But here she did. She spent like 80 bucks on these nice sandals. Um, I'm like, oh man, I'm such a such a bad dude, such a bad boyfriend, oh my goodness Right. So that didn't go down well. Luckily, the weekend ended on a high note. So now it's probably, I want to say, end of March, right, end of March, and costs is our principle, right? So now we're going into some of a man, some big death, big death here. Costy sends me an email and I think the email read something like this hey, jonathan, I'm just reaching out because I want to schedule a time to meet with you just to talk about a few things. And if you're a teacher or any profession and you get a, a email from your boss like that, you're like one of two things. I know this could be good. Very rarely is more. This is bad, right. So I'm like I go the second route and I'm thinking, well, what could this be about? And guess what I'm thinking about. I was like, oh, it's gotta be something, something with Portland Oregon, oh boy. So I think we really thought that.
Speaker 1:You really thought like it was going back to budget.
Speaker 2:I really did, man, I really did. Having this world was small. I have in this world is small and your sense always come to light, and always come to light. They always do. And so I was thinking. I was like, oh no, I'm like shoot, lot fear, lot, fear of being found out. Was this living a double life? It was, it was becoming real. I was like, oh man, I'm going to be found out. This is going to be so embarrassing. Oh my goodness, hope is going to leave me Like I'm going to lose. I don't know what's going to happen with my job. Right, so fast forward. A couple of days later, we're meeting in the athletic director's office. You know he's not there, but we're meeting there. And she asked me these questions. She starts off, she actually she starts off with so we received some concerns from the Oregon conference. And right then, and there, dude, oh my goodness, if you've ever been caught in a lie, imagine that feeling is like that comes over you like, oh crap, I've been found out in times, lot by a thousand. I was just like, oh no, here it comes, here it comes. And so she started asking me all these questions. She's like do you know this person? I said, yes, here are the concerns that we've received. We're going to follow up on them, but we want to hear your side of the story. So I start, I get my side of the story. I'm honest, you know, forthright. I tell exactly what happened. Nothing physical, but that inappropriate messages were sent and that the lady was married. And she's like thank you, you know we're. And at this time, like I'm crying too because I'm being found out is a fraud, I'm a fake. And so here comes some more condemnation and shame and embarrassment. Like here's this woman that fired me in high school, believed in me enough to be like, hey, we want to hire you out to school tomorrow. I'm letting her down again. Man, like that's a lot, that is a lot. So she's. She basically tells me hey, you know, we're going to the conference and I and the superintendents are going to talk about this, looking into some things. We'll get back to you, we'll schedule another meeting, probably next week. So you know, the weekend happens another two days. So it's like Wednesday next week we meet, but this time is with the superintendent and was it the assistant superintendent. I don't know how those two are Like an HR person too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and HR.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was.
Speaker 1:That's how you know it's about to go down.
Speaker 2:And we were in the. We were in the conference room. I was like, oh shoot, this is obviously it's serious. But I was like, oh boy, like here comes a. You know, costality knows I'm a fraud. Nobody in the world is going to know like that I'm a fraud. I'm living this double life. My sins are coming to life. And so they sent me down and remember, they took turns asking questions, very direct questions, specific questions, and I answered truthfully and I get my side of the story because there's always two sides of the story and I tell them hey, this happened, this didn't happen, and I was honest about it. I didn't lie about anything truthful. And at that time, rich, I'm balling, I am balling, and I literally tell those people in the room. I said I'm so glad that this has happened because I feel like a burden has just been lifted from my shoulders. I said my sins have come to light and I couldn't carry it any longer, even though that was just the start of everything. I knew right then and there that your sins need to come to light in order to start dealing. So I'm just bawling. They're like well, we're going to have to talk about things, so we'll get back to you. So a week goes by. Now it's beginning of April. Mid-april I meet some individuals at Starbucks high ranking people in the conference and they tell me we're not going to bring you back tomorrow night, and I knew it was coming. Of course I wish for the best because I wanted to be this good guy, but consequences, decisions have consequences, and this is one of the consequences of me living my double life, and so I lost my job. I wasn't able to finish out the year. I had to let staff know that I wasn't coming back in the coming year, and what made the toughest part about that was that I just felt like I was letting everybody down. I let myself down. I let my sister down man, it was that embarrassing. I let my colleagues down, but also those seniors that I had been getting to know. I let them down. And so obviously you're not giving specifics of what happened. All you can say is really hey, I'm not coming back, made some choices, you know they want the best and you go from there. But in Latin, a lot of this world talks man, and there were things that were said they were not true, and so in this community, everybody has their opinions. So now it's feeling like you're in college all over again, man, everybody's judging me, everybody's looking at me like no, I don't want to get to know this guy because he has this reputation. So I'm living it all over again and I'm not saying that to feel sorry for myself, I'm just being real, like that's what I was feeling. I'm like, man, this is my worst nightmare. And so now everything comes to light. Hope knows that I'm not going to be returning. But I haven't been honest with you about all the details as to why I lost my job. I lied about some things. She asked me I had lied about some things and so it was fast forward to May 2000. Yeah, it's still 2018. But now we're in May. She's graduating, I'm at graduation with her family and her extended family, and obviously this whole process isn't easy for her, either right or her family. But because I wasn't honest about all the details, she's like, oh, it's OK, and it's OK, babe, like this is tough. You know that's not right that you did those things, but I can forgive you, right? So it's graduation weekend and she gets an anonymous message through Facebook from someone providing her with more details about what really went down, and some of it was true, some of it wasn't, but in it was details that I did not share with her. So in that time, here she is, I have one of the biggest moments in her life, and here I am just ruining it, just being that guy just to crush it. You know, bring the mood down. And here I am, with her family too, who's welcomed me. He's nothing but nice to me. And here I am doing this to her daughter, doing this to their daughter. So that was tough, man, that was tough, and so we had. So from that moment she's like all right, this weekend we'll discuss this after. So then we break up, you know, because it's a lot for her and she's going to be moving to Ohio to work in the ICU in Kettering. So I was like, oh great, I think we had a conversation around this time didn't we?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I think I only bring this up because I think it's important for the future.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is, I had a PE position open. You know, at this time I was a principal out of school and when I heard this news about what had happened with you, the news was pretty much Kemp was with some woman and he's a sex addict and he's going to these, he has to be in this like program or something like that. And so I'm hearing this stuff and Morgan wasn't. You know, morgan's in hope are really, really tight. And so Morgan Tyler and I were talking about this. Little did we know our lives were about to change in like some huge, crazy way, and with, you know, with this kind of topic being at the forefront of all of this. So I hear about this and then one of your buddies, one of your you know, a ride or die friend of yours, like Rich man, what about Kemper for this position? And I was not excited to talk to you about it Because I think, because of the basketball team and our interactions, I think, even later, like I wanted you to know, I was always rooting for you, like I'm on your side and I'm like man, I want to show this kid that I am rooting for him and I am on his side, but this is too soon, like I can't, I can't, I can't hire him for a position like this. So I wasn't looking forward to this conversation at all. But we had this conversation and you were, you were just the man. You were just like, yeah, I get it, I totally understand and I'm like thinking, man, maybe maybe some stuff is going on with him, that he's growing, or something like this and I hope I'm not messing up the timeline. Maybe it was a year later actually.
Speaker 2:No, it was, it was summer 2018. Summer 2018.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, and so we had that conversation. I felt really bad, but I felt I think what I was saying was like man, camp you got like some time has to pass. You know, blessings to you, man, I hope you find something I would. But like we had just gotten, like the year before I got there there was a PE teacher that we had to let go because of a similar thing, and so I was like, yeah, man, but I think that was important because you were on my mind at this point after this conversation. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 2:No, I do and I can elaborate. I just want to add a little bit before that, if that's OK. Sure, man, yeah, so during this time right, we're hoping I aren't together. And now it's the summer 2000 or it's like May, I forget. You know it's about to be summertime or just has started, and I'm thinking, well, what am I going to do for work? And man you talk about like this is probably one of the best exposures to someone, or my first experience to someone, that, because I'm believing that I'm this piece of poo and I'm no good and God can't love me, this person really showed me that hey, god's love through their actions and so I'm looking for a job and hope's death. You know he's done well for himself, super smart guy. He's like you can come work for me. Talk about like God's love man. Like seeing this guy, I had just done this stuff to his daughter. I'm this terrible person. I'm lying, I'm living this double life, my sins are, have been exposed, and yet he has this relationship with God enough to be like hey, like, come work for me. And so I end up. I'm just blown away. I'm like how can you just put that behind you? Like that's your daughter, like how can you hire me, someone that's hurt, someone so close to you? So I was like man, this that showed me Jesus right then, and there I was, like this there's something different about this guy and he has a relationship with Jesus and he's caring enough about me to invest and give me another chance to try to be successful. And so I start working for him and I am working, as, basically, he has a lot of businesses, but this business that I was working for was a concrete business, and so my job was to be the project manager, to follow up on leads and to sell concrete jobs, specifically concrete patios, right, and I was terrible at it. I was terrible. I think I had driven over the whole Denver area and I think I only got out of a hundred like a hundred or more leads. I think I got like two, and in those two jobs, the jobs that I was managing I had to redo them because they got messed up on my watch. So I was not good at concrete. I cannot sell. I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't inform myself enough about it, I just I felt like I let him down. But from that he's like hey, you know, in the fall time. We have this fireplace business where we go around and I train people to serve as gas fireplaces, and so this is fall 2018. So he's like I'm going to send you with my top tech around for you know, good three weeks whatever it was, four weeks You're going to train it, you're going to also read this manual, you're going to study up on it, you're going to take this test so you can service these fireplaces. So I was like OK, I'll do that. So, long story short, I'm doing that. I'm meeting people. I find like I'm being successful, this is something that I'm good at, and so just from having that opportunity to work and to have someone believe in me, even though I've made that mistake at that point in my life, it showed me a lot, because it's like man, there are people out there that can love me even though I've made mistakes. So then that really started to get me thinking. You know, even though I wasn't there yet, I'm thinking like man, like is this, is this possibly how God is, if he can forgive me? Like maybe God can forgive me, but I didn't fully believe that yet. Right, and while I'm working for him, I'm also staying with my sister for a year, you know, with her and my brother-in-law, and there were days where I would work. I'd come home, I'd just be like this sad little puppy, like man. I just messed up. And what am I going to do? Like you know, my future in education is shot. Well, maybe next year, next summer, I can get another job in the Adventist system, you know. But at that point in time, people high up in the conference had told me well, you're never going to teach again In the Adventist system, you're never going to teach again, and there's people out there that are going to make it their mission, so that you never do teach. And so I was like, well, man, like here's goes this education that I got. And what am I going to do? So I'm working for, I'm working for my father-in-law, making decent money. I'm looking.
Speaker 1:Did you actually go to like classes or whatever, because that was the rumor and I forget, did?
Speaker 2:you go. Thanks, yeah, thanks for reminding me. So, through this whole thing, after I couldn't come back to Mahe and they essentially fired me, they told me that you are an addict, you're a sexual addict and you need to go to counseling, to this program. So while I'm working, I'm also I'm not in a relationship with hope, I'm broken up, nothing to do with her. But I'm working for my father-in-law, staying with my sister, and I'm also attending these counseling sessions specifically for sex addicts, right, and so I'm thinking I'm always going to be a sex addict. That's going to be my identity. That's who I am.
Speaker 1:Was there helpful in some ways?
Speaker 2:Were there some things that you want to say, I will say this. I will say this I think counseling is beneficial and you can learn a lot. But the longer I stayed there in a group of, and we would have some meetings with similar men that had different struggles when it came to sex and hearing them say I'm always going to be a sex addict, I'm always going to be this way, that just hit me the wrong way. I never fully believed that I was always going to be that Like. I knew I was a piece of poo. I knew I like God couldn't love me, but for some reason I was like I'm never going to be just labeled like that, like I just don't. There's just something off about that. Right Throughout my counseling sessions and talking to other guys that were going through different things, I was just like no, that doesn't seem right. And so then that's kind of the start of and during this time, I also heard like whispers of Jonathan Leonardo and this love reality tour at Campion. I'm like what is this about? Someone was like, oh, you should go check that out. I'm like no, I'm good. So that was my first. That was my first like hearing about love reality and I was like I don't know anything about it. I know Jonathan Leonardo because he went to school with my oldest sister, michelle, at Ozark Academy, so I knew of him. I didn't know him you know, so like, oh, I recognize that name, but that was the extent of what I knew about love, reality and his message and everything.
Speaker 1:OK, we're going to stop the podcast episode right now. Right now, we're going to stop it and I'm bringing on my guy Tyler the bald eagle Morrison. What's going on with you, my boy?
Speaker 3:What's up?
Speaker 1:big rich man, quick question how long you been rocking? How long you been rolling With the gospel, my man? How long Guys? I asked this. Every single mineral, everyone's like we know what he's going to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how long you been rocking with the gospel man? I would say that the gospel definitely hardcore changed my life in the summer of 2018.
Speaker 1:Man speaking of 2018, January 2019 is when you and I had that conversation in the hotel room. We're coming up on the five year anniversary of that conversation. Five years bro, life's a little different man.
Speaker 3:does that seem like it was like 40 years ago? It seems like it's ever ago dude. It was long enough ago that we were gathered together watching the Timberwolves lose, so we decided to turn our attention to the gospel. And it does what it does changed our lives. And now the Timberwolves are winning, and we're still talking about the gospel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as of this recording, number one in the West, let me ask you what has the gospel done to? Change your life.
Speaker 3:I think the thing that I even shared with you that that first year was that the gospel is righteousness is not some destination finish line that I'm working towards as a Christian, but it's actually the starting line for those of us who have been born again in Christ, and that was like just the sweetest relief. It was just the sweetest relief that I ever felt in my life to know that all of my striving, I was trying to get somewhere and I was never getting anywhere closer. If anything, I felt like I was getting farther and to know that, oh, I'm the righteousness of God in Christ right now, and so that's just changed everything. Everything is backed by security and joy and peace in Jesus.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that the things that have changed are everything?
Speaker 3:Yeah, if I was to list them out, it would be everything you would say. It would be it all, all of it. Yeah. If somebody asked me, like, what all has changed, I'd say yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, fair enough, man, you've decided to donate energy, time, money to keep this moving forward. Why is that important to you?
Speaker 3:You know, I knew you were going to ask this question. I'm reminded of a buddy of mine in college was our student body president, carl Dupre, and he was the first person I had to say that dollars are like votes and where you put dollars is like what you vote into existence. And I don't have many dollars so I have not voted that much for low reality. You know, the gospel changed my life, so I literally feel like I have no, there's no question in my mind that I need to do everything I can to get it out there to change other people's lives too.
Speaker 1:Man, if you're listening, you know the deal loverealityorg slash give. We want you guys to partner with us. We're feeling strong, tyler. You feel like, if we keep preaching this mug, that we're going to keep having the Death to Life podcast.
Speaker 3:I have a feeling that we're never going to run out of stories, Rich.
Speaker 1:Man, you have that feeling and then should we do it like a little teaser? Oh, so like, if we keep preaching this thing and there's still Death to Life episodes, are we going to have people growing in maturity and maybe jump on what you have coming out in the near future? Is that what we're doing?
Speaker 3:I don't know. Yeah, you know that that life in freedom is something Morgan and I are really passionate about, and so we're going to be doing a little podcast ourselves. Rich Boy, you walked so that we could also walk right behind you and, yeah, we're really excited to just focus on what it looks like to walk in the light, as he is in the light, and so we've got man, we've got some interesting conversations coming up that you're going to really add a line for the Saints.
Speaker 1:Really, the podcast I listen to are about sports, and now I'm going to listen to yours. That's what.
Speaker 3:I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm talking about. All right, everybodyloverealityorg slash. Give partner with us moving forward. Thanks, tyler.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you, doc, I appreciate you and I love you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love you too, man. Let's get back into the episode. I think the elephant in the room that we, that like Morgan and Tyler and I, would talk about when it was like concerning you and hope, was this idea that has been passed down from generation to generation and that is once you're a this, you're always of that. Like you, like a leopard, can't change his spots. You're, you're always going to be like this, and I don't even know what I believed about it, but I think I probably did believe that. And so many people. I think this is, this is right in the middle of the Me Too movement, like smack dab in the middle of the Me Too movement, and so that was the sentiment, like if you have done this, like like you're always going to be like this, and so I don't know if you're like, if that was as you're hearing this and counseling, it's what you say it wasn't landing right with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I it was weird because it was. It was during that time, but for some reason there was just that I understood it and I understood why. But I think I was. I just didn't want to label myself like that forever and I didn't know if that was God planting another seed in my head for what was to come with all the life. I really don't know why I was reluctant to really buy into. Oh, I'm always going to be like this. I was the first time in my life where I had a different thought process regarding, like, my mistakes. But in other areas of my life I was still like, well, god can't love me, like I'm still in loveable type of thing. But then there was these interactions with my father-in-law and my sister still loving me and people still being loving towards me, where I'm thinking like man, there has to be something different than what I've thought this whole time regarding God. So we can fast forward 2019, summer 2019. It's coming up on the year and I got to move out of my sister's house. I'm like, what am I going to do? I don't know where I'm going to stay. And before that, hope and I had started talking a little bit again and trying to repair things. She's in working in Ohio at a hospital there and then she's basically like, hey, if you want this to be to work again, you got to move out here. And I was like leave in Colorado. I don't know about that, like I love Colorado, but I had no plan. I got a great job with your dad, I'm working with Pops and so I didn't have a job out there. I was sending my resume out to all these schools in Ohio, the Dayton area, and we prayed about it. And she's like, by this day you're either coming or you're staying. And so we prayed about it. I was like, if I don't have a job, I'm not moving. So we prayed the night before the next day I get this call from this transitional high school in downtown Dayton and they're like hey, we have this PE opening Teach night through 12th PE and health. How does that sound In my head? I'm like thinking okay, God, what are you trying to tell me? Like we prayed about this. I guess this is a sign that I'm moving to Ohio. So she comes down and she helps move out to Ohio and we move out there and get my own place. She's staying with a friend. She's working in the ICU and all this stuff, Because her long-term goal is I need to get into the ICU as quick as possible to get two years of experience so then I can go to CRNA school as soon as possible. So she's laser focused in what she wants to do. That's the opposite of me. I'm like I'm just trying to survive. God, I'm just trying to, you know. And so there was a lot of feelings of, like man, she's doing these big things in her lives and I'm a mess up and I'm just making a mess in my life and I'm six years older than her and here's what I have to show for it I'm a failure. I'm dealing with that. And so now I'm at this school, which is in downtown. It's a downtown school, right, so you have a certain population of students right. So it's different than my Ohio Academy, right, which is the biggest blessing I think that I could ever have, because it helped me and helped me grow so in so many ways. But also it's transitional. So a lot of the kids there they're dealing with behavioral or academic struggles. So a lot of the students that we get they'll have a second grade reading level but they're in high school, so our job is to help them get to a point by when they graduate they'll be able to function and contribute to society. So I worked there for that first year there, eye opening, right, Love the people there, but management and it wasn't really structured right Totally different. I love teaching the kids learn so much. Throughout that time, Hope and eyes relationship was up and down. I was still, we were back together, but I was still living. I was back to living that double life. Rich and I was being unfaithful to her right. And I was still doing those things, going to wwwyoushouldn'tbetherecom Seeking an affirmation from the wrong people. But I'm trying to be faithful, I'm trying to do things right, I'm trying to go to church. But then this, this thing, I get another feeling. I'm in this community where here's all these successful people, their nurses, their doctors, this is, you know, they're well liked in the community. And here I am, just this little teacher that's working at this school, who's getting paid Not much to work with these kids. So then I start, I'm going to Sabbath school and then I'm hearing everybody because they're mostly nurses and doctors talk about oh, my patient, this, my patient, that. So now I'm developing this new mindset of like, oh, I'm a teacher. Like this is, this is whack, no one respects teachers. Like this is, like I'm not worthy, Like I'm not good enough, right? So then that starts to add on to the cycle that I'm living in. And biggest lie ever, right? But that's, that's what I started thinking. And so then that started to creep into our relationship, where then I would have insecurities and then that would cause tension in the relationship and then it just wasn't good. It just wasn't good Rich. But here I am, you know, I really care about her. I really do but I'm back to living that double lives, that's, forward to 2019 of November. Right, we're still dating, we're talking about marriage. We're like, oh, we're going to, we're going to get married in 2020. So I remember taking a trip to see my parents in Indiana brought hope and I ended up proposing, like in the backyard of my parents' house at the time, and hope was kind of like, oh, okay, All right, we shouldn't have been getting engaged, getting married, because our relationship wasn't in the point where we should do that. Right, I was still living this double life and but I but I proposed, and throughout that time, fast forward to December or February 2020, right before the pandemic I go back to visit my parents just by myself during Valentine's weekend. Right, Hope stays, and during that time we you know, our relationship was rocky. There's trust issues, and I come back and she's like we need to talk. So basically, you know, she breaks up with me, she ends the engagement and here we are. We had scheduled. We were like, oh, we're going to get married 2000, summer 2020. It's going to be good. She breaks up with me and I'm like, man, this is embarrassing. Oh, my goodness, my fiance broke up with me. Here I am, you know this, this loser, done, got anything going for me. I'm just a teacher. You know I'm a failure, thinking all this stuff. And she's living her best life, she's hanging out with you know, her friends and all this stuff right. So I'm like I go into kind of like this, kind of like soft depression, not depressed, where I'm like, oh, you know it's the end, all be all. But I'm like, man, this sucks. You know there's no hope. And I remember it might have been before we got, before we ended our engagement. You called me. It might have been in September 2009, 2019, backup. You called me. You're like, hey, Kim, and I'm in Ohio. I'm like, why is Rich calling me? He's like, hey, man, do you know? Like, what's your relationship to sin? And I'm like, I don't know, I'm a sinner. Like I sin, Like I don't know, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:I found it right here. It's in November, November. I was close, I called you and you said can we catch up soon? And this is right after. This is a month and a half after Morgan gets free. So like I'm on fire and your name is just on my heart because of what happened at Mile High, because of you trying to get, you know, work at Midland, and so your name is on my heart and so I'm like I just got to call this dude and unload the gospel. I just got to tell him the whole thing. And do you remember your reaction to hearing this when I was just like Kemp?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember it. I remember it vividly because I was at Hope and her roommates apartment and we were sitting, we were chilling and you call me and I'm like I was rich, calling me Like I've always liked rich. I think he's a good dude, I know. But I know a lot of people didn't have that view of you but I never had anything against you and so I was like, okay, why is he calling me? And then you just start unloading. I'm like all right, like I wasn't understanding. But you're like dude, like the gospel's, so good, like you know, you're free from sin, you're not a sinner, like all this stuff. And I remember hanging up in that conversation and I was like Hope, like I don't know, this sounds kind of quack, like whack, like I don't know if this is aligned with the Bible, like this isn't anything that like I've heard before. But rich seemed like he was all about it, you know, and I remember I remember I don't want to speak for hope, but from my memory I remember it being like, yeah, that's kind of different, isn't it? Like I don't know if we believe that, like we need to study that for ourselves. But I was like, if rich cares about it enough to call me it must. I need to look into this. Right, I never looked into it, but in March of 2020, when the pandemic was coming this is when you all started the wave one love reality tour on zoom and Tyler Morrison you're there, jonathan Leonardo's there, eddie's there, and I remember going through wave one talking about Adam one, adam two. You know he's drawing these diagrams and I'm just trying to follow along. I, you know, I don't understand a lot of it, but some of it I'm like oh, this, this seems good. You know, this seems good. Rich seems to be about it, tyler's about it, he's really passionate about it. So I was like it has, there has to be something good here. Like I, I've lived my life like one way for so long. Like let me try something different, right? And so, as I'm going through these sessions, I'm coming back and I'm coming back. But the crazy thing about this is is my intention when I first went to these was not to receive the gospel. Rich it was. I want to show Hope's friends that I'm a change man. Like I want to show Morgan and Tyler and rich that I'm here and I'm spiritual and that I love Jesus. Like that was my motive and it was so messed up. It was so messed up but the more that I attended these meetings and the these sessions, I was like man. There's some goodness to this. And I remember, as I was trying to get through this process of not being in that relationship and really just trying to find my own identity of who I was and how God saw me, I remember calling you like 24, seven, like rich. You were on speed dials like hey bro, and I'm feeling this way and you're like bro, what does Jesus say about you? What is what does the Bible say about you? And I was like rich, but I'm feeling this way. I feel like I'm such, you know, a sinner and I'm this terrible person. You're like bro, it's all good, spend some time with Jesus, call me back, let me know what he tells you. And I remember doing that over and over and eventually, right, I started to walk this out and I started to, instead of turning to like basketball exercise or calling you or Netflix, I would just pray to God and I would sit there and I remember I would have to do this several times within an hour. I remember, like man, I'm having these feelings, I miss hope like man, or I'm this terrible person Like you know, and I remember just being like I just need to pray to God and praise him for his goodness and his grace and that I'm not the same person and that I can be transformed and that I have a new heart and that I'm his son. And I remember doing that several times, like, oh, I'm getting these feelings again. I don't live by feelings anymore. That was a big thing from love value. You don't live by feelings, you live by the truth. And I was like man, this sucks. You know. You're having to tell yourself something different than your feeling, because that's all I had live by is my feelings for so long and I hadn't lived by truth that I was having to retrain my brain in the way that I think to now think, you know, live with the spirit in me and to live by what the truth says about me instead of my feelings. So it was. It was quite the process, and I remember you were always there and you would call me and check up on me and be like hey, kim, how you doing? What's hitting, what's not? How are you doing today?
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I never thought like that would happen. But also, while I was walking this out like I was also, there were certain days, too, where I would always be like oh, I'm going to go back on zoom, I'm going to show it, I'm a different guy and I would. I started posting on Facebook like singing these Jesus songs and like these things about how Jesus has changed my life. I'm like that is so fake. But because I started to walk this out and because the spirit now lived in me, I no longer. When the spirit showed me something, it was no longer from a place of condemnation and shame, it was now. It was now out of a place of love. So when I would do something in, my motive wasn't pure right or led by the spirit, god the spirit would tell me hey, is this for selfish gain or is this, you know, for my glory? And so a lot of the things that I was doing. I was still struggling and I was still doing things for myself. But now I had this concept about like I'm a son, like I'm loved, I'm not going to be this sex addict my whole life, like God says this about me, and I believe that. But then the tough part was walking out out every day and really believing that in the moments that I did it so that was over the course of May 2000, march 2020, through that summer, and during that summer, while I'm walking this out, god was using me also. But I was still like, because I had lived a certain way for so long, there was those old thought patterns and those old ways of medication. They would still come back. And so, like I wasn't perfect, I would make mistakes, but then I would always go back to God and I would, you know, be like man. God, I'm a son, I'm forgiven. Forgive me, thank you for forgiving me that I'm loved. And then I can be a difference to people that I come in contact with. And so, during that time, one of the young adult groups at church, they started to ask me to teach Sabbath school. And this was like later in the summer, after I had several months of trying to walk this out and understand it right. And so I'm teaching Sabbath school. I'm like ministering, I'm talking about Romans six and all this stuff in Sabbath school. I'm passionate about it. I feel like the spirit is speaking and using me to mentor, but at the same time it's you know, I'm still. There's still those things that I'm struggling to fully give up. You know some of those old habits you know. So then I kind of feel like I'm not fully living according to this gospel, right? Do you want man?
Speaker 1:it's kind of interesting. The whole time you were trying to like if you had a bad motive. You were trying to convince Morgan Tyler, myself, that you were a good dude and at the whole same time we're trying to convince you that you're exactly. Yeah that's funny. It's just like guys, please believe, like I'm a changed guy and we're like Kim, please believe you're a changed guy. Yeah, like the gospel is the good news that of what God has done, and you were trying to convince us that you were changed, but at the same time, like that's what we were trying to convince you of, that you had actually been changed, but not because you did something, but because of what God had actually done through Jesus Christ. Right.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, and so that was kind of the start of this whole being free, right, being free and trying to walk it out in my life and apply. But during this whole time, part of my story too, is that Hope and I weren't together. We had ended things and I was walking this out. I was applying it to my life, trying to live this new life right. It wasn't perfect, but it was almost in baby steps where you know I'm walking this out. I'm not perfect, I'm making some of the same mistakes, but I know the truth and who I am now right, which was a big difference because now, instead of if I make a mistake, it's I can go to God in confidence, knowing that he loves me and I know who I am right. So part of this whole thing, when we had broken up and after I had walked this was walking this freedom out, this gospel out is that I prayed a prayer to God. I said God, you know, if you want Hope and I to come back together, you want this relationship to be, there's two things that have to happen right. One, she has to accept this freedom that I'm walking out and I'm believing, and two, she has to initiate or reach out to me. I'm not going to do it and I don't want to get too much in. I'm sure she has her own story, but it ended up happening in a way where those exact two things happened, and so my prayer was answered and I knew that, moving forward, that this is what God wanted for me. There was no doubt. There was complete peace. I was a new person in Him, the Spirit was living in me, and, even though you know there were certain things that I'm trying to not try, but old habits that I'm trying to retrain myself to not go to, and go to God instead, like I know who I was, I knew who, my identity, I know my identity. I know that I'm a son of God. I know that I'm not a sex addict forever. I know that I can love somebody like God loves me, and that was powerful. So 2020, december 2020, end up getting engaged again, right. And then we ended up getting married in April 2021, which, during the pandemic, was pretty crazy. We ended up getting married in Parker, colorado, in her parents' backyard. So about 60 people. So that was kind of cool. That was one thing that God was doing is that he was restoring my relationship with hope he had restored me. He's working on my heart and now he was repairing this relationship that had been damaged. Let me ask you this, dude Sorry for cutting you off.
Speaker 1:Let me do this. When we were talking that fall in 2019, you were in the comfort of like. Now that you're telling me the story, a lot of it's starting to make sense to me. You're in the comfort of the apartment, with hope, and you're like. You know, life seems like it's pretty sweet, and you're hearing me say you're not a sinner and you're free from sin, and it's not landing. Was there something about not being in that situation anymore, that your ears were a little more susceptible to hearing it Because life wasn't as comfortable? I mean, you tell me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:No, I think. No, absolutely right. I think anytime that you go through a situation where you feel hopeless, where it's really tough and it's been an emotional time for you, I think that's when you're kind of at your rock bottom for, say, and so I think that's when the spirit, it's just you and God, right, it's just you and God alone. Especially during the pandemic. You don't really have anybody to go to. You got to stay in your apartment. You have this isolate yourself, right. So it's just me in that apartment. I'm not having to get my attention or I'm not giving my attention to other people, it's I'm just alone here, I'm hearing these messages, and then the spirit is just working on my heart. And then I have you calling me, checking in on me. So it was a lot of, I guess, just the spirit pursuing me, god pursuing me and my, and just realizing that I don't have to look the way that I've been living. It's a powerful thing. Once, like God's love, hits you, man Finally realized that I don't have to try to obtain this thing, this gift, and I can just receive it. Man, that's a powerful thing and it brings so much peace. And so in that moment, yeah, just being by myself in that apartment hearing these messages from Jonathan and co, and the spirit is just working on my heart. And I think it was. I think it took all those events, each event that happened in the story right up to this point, because, right when my sins came to light, boom, that was the first part. Right that I'm hearing about this love reality to again. I hear you call me. Hey, you know, you're not a Senate, you're a son of God the free. First say all of those things were seeds that were planted in my life. And then, the last, the last thing that took was that relationship, the relationship aspect, for me to really be like okay, god, I definitely want a different way of going about living in the way that I've been doing. It has brought so much death, pain and sadness. There has to be something different, right?
Speaker 1:So what was the toughest part about changing the way you had been thinking about God, and even thinking about yourself?
Speaker 2:The toughest thing was because I used to have the legalistic mindset right, Since you have to try to earn God's love, and so switching from that way of living of trying to earn something, to just receding and resting and walking that out, I think that was the hardest thing, because it's like well, I've grown up, here's the 10 commandments. I've done a Sabbath school, I've always tried to be this good kid, loves people, but I've always felt like I've fallen short. And so now, here it is, God's telling me you're good, but here's this gift. Just to live it out, apply it. This is the truth that I say about you. That was tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, maybe it would have was a little easier for you, though, than some folks, like the ones who had worked really hard and had some success in working hard. I feel like this was easier for me to receive because my marriage sucked, my life was going down the toilet, so it's easier for me to receive it. But so, yeah, man, as the summer kept going on, I think we're getting close to wrapping this up. When do you feel like this was? It was true? In theory, to now, you're like no, this is legit truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say definitely November 2020. I would say when I believed everything and I was still a young into this new truth, but I had fully believed in that, even though God was still and the spirit was still transforming my mind and he had given me a new heart, I was still in that process of walking it out in every aspect of my life. But I fully and 100% believed that was this message that God was in the gospel. I fully believed it and accepted it. It was now just in the honor of continuing that relationship with him and him showing me these things in my life and these thoughts, patterns, these actions that I would, or this way of thinking that I went about. Now he was showing me these things that I was doing in my life out of love and I was able to reflect into, be like okay, god, like that's not something I should be doing and okay, thanks you for helping me change that and exposing that.
Speaker 1:Man, as I'm thinking about your story and I'm thinking about you, it's kind of like this idea and I've thought about this several other times recording these podcasts there is not enough shame in the world to change our behavior. Like I remember thinking, if I just get busted, you know, looking at something I shouldn't be looking at, I'll be so ashamed that I'll stop looking at it, or something crazy would happen that that would be the catalyst that would propel me forward into just dropping this terrible habit or something. And as I'm hearing your story and man, it's a wild ride. All the religion, all the legalism or all the shame wouldn't have been enough for you to see something different. But then hearing something that's actually good news Because, man, you know, looking back three years ago, it may not seem like a miracle miracle to you. Maybe it does it's like, after hearing this whole story the last couple of days, it really seems like, man, I'm just praising God for your life and for this testimony. But yeah, it had to be really, really good news to kind of flip this thing around for you. Do you resonate with that? Like the news was just never good enough for you to be able to be able to live differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I definitely resonate with that. But I also think that I mean, I agree that the news wasn't what I was hearing at the time when I was going through stuff. It wasn't what I heard from you guys. It wasn't the gospel put in that way. And I had taken all these religious classes at Union and I never got that from any of those classes. And that's not to be a knock on any of the professors, Maybe that's just where I was in my life and I wasn't ready for that truth. But the truth is powerful and how God is using you and the rest of the team to present the gospel, it's amazing because it's changed my life. And, yeah, I can't think of. It really is a miracle to think back to how I was living and how my life could have ended up in so many ways to now living this life where I know who I am, how I can love my wife, how I can love my friends and people around me. In this way I would be able to if I know Jesus right. And so the gospel is powerful, it changes lives and God's love, it's like that song through this whole ordeal, especially when I was at in Mile High going through this whole job situation was that reckless love song by Corey Lasker where he's talking about the 99 sheep and there's that one sheep that's lost and the shepherd leaves the 99 to find the one right. Yeah that was me man. That was me in so many ways and God's love was just pursuing and he never stopped. Even when I thought I was a lost cause, God kept pursuing me and it's just a miracle and I'm just so glad that I was able to receive it and I heard it. But now I can to live it out, because my life is truly changed.
Speaker 1:Let me take you back to good old Union College. There's this kid who desperately wants to be a good guy but doesn't believe it because of all these stupid decisions. And let's say you get out of this moment where you might get kicked out of school. And while it brings relief that you didn't get kicked out of school, it still feels terrible because you had to lie to your folks. You had to lie and now you're just sitting after all this and you're like I got away with it, but maybe you didn't. You know, in a sense, if you got to see this kid, you got to put your arm around this kid and you got to speak some truth to him. What would you say to this kid, knowing what you know now?
Speaker 2:Well, first off, I don't know if the John Doctin, we were stubborn, so I don't know if you'd be receptive to that For any advice. No, but if I was there to see the old John, I would probably just tell him you know you're loved and just try to invest in him because he didn't believe in himself. So just tell him he's loved and that there's a different way to go about things and just keep it simple to be like you know. You don't have to try to do this on the God's already done. You just have to rest and receive it. His love will. Hopefully John would be receptive to it.
Speaker 1:Man, thanks so much for sharing your story. Dog, you're like in my life. I see you and hopefully we'll get more of the story later who knows when but just seeing you and hope and what, how God is leading your life, man. I'm just blessed to see you guys doing it. So thanks so much for sharing your story. You're a blessing to me, bro.
Speaker 2:I love you guys, love you Rich.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I love to see and hear this story, because man walking through this with this guy was man. There were some ups and there were some downs, but God has been faithful. He has always been faithful. If you're in a situation where you're like man I don't know if I can live again without shame then this prayer is for you, father. Thank you that I am no longer who I used to be, that old me is gone, that new me is here, that I get to stand on that truth because you have done it, not because I've done something in and of myself, but that you have done it, and so I give you my loyalty and I believe you when you say it in your name Amen. Okay, kemp was talking about a wave one that he went to online. Well, I want to tell you guys that on our love reality, youtube, we have wave one from 2023. We're about to record wave one 2024 coming up this week, but if you can't be at that, we have wave one from 2023 on YouTube. It's a whole playlist. Listen, the podcasts are cool and the 10 minute vlogs are cool, but you got to grab ahold of this thing. You got to see it for what it is, and hearing it from Jonathan in a 40 minute message, it hits different. So that's what I want to invite you to check out wave one 2023 on YouTube. Thanks,