In this heartfelt account, Josh Groff opens up about his journey from detachment to deep faith, bravely confronting the shadows of his past struggles with pornography and finding redemption through spirituality. Through his narrative, he grapples with parental guidance, personal rebellion, and the discovery of divine love amidst life's trials, offering a guiding light amidst the complexities of moral choices and their impacts on relationships.
Josh's story delves into the intricate maze of moral dilemmas, revealing how early experiences with pornography and family challenges shaped his views on relationships, trust, and self-worth. With unwavering honesty, he navigates themes of forgiveness, trust, and the pursuit of spiritual freedom, echoing universal struggles that resonate deeply with listeners. Join us in the Love Reality Gospel community as we journey together through the human experience, celebrating stories of redemption and embracing the promise of enduring faith, where every voice is cherished in our pursuit of renewal and hope.
11:10 - Parental Rules and Rebellion Challenges
15:57 - Mindset and Moral Choices Impact Exploration
22:15 - Navigating Jealousy and Self-Preservation in Relationships
28:33 - Struggling With Sin and Seeking Freedom
34:30 - Discovering Identity and Freedom in Christ
45:33 - Early Marriage and Its Effects
52:18 - Cheating and Chaos
1:04:28 - Navigating Infidelity and Finding Forgiveness
1:17:35 - The Journey of Love and Faith
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
In this heartfelt account, Josh Groff opens up about his journey from detachment to deep faith, bravely confronting the shadows of his past struggles with pornography and finding redemption through spirituality. Through his narrative, he grapples with parental guidance, personal rebellion, and the discovery of divine love amidst life's trials, offering a guiding light amidst the complexities of moral choices and their impacts on relationships.
Josh's story delves into the intricate maze of moral dilemmas, revealing how early experiences with pornography and family challenges shaped his views on relationships, trust, and self-worth. With unwavering honesty, he navigates themes of forgiveness, trust, and the pursuit of spiritual freedom, echoing universal struggles that resonate deeply with listeners. Join us in the Love Reality Gospel community as we journey together through the human experience, celebrating stories of redemption and embracing the promise of enduring faith, where every voice is cherished in our pursuit of renewal and hope.
11:10 - Parental Rules and Rebellion Challenges
15:57 - Mindset and Moral Choices Impact Exploration
22:15 - Navigating Jealousy and Self-Preservation in Relationships
28:33 - Struggling With Sin and Seeking Freedom
34:30 - Discovering Identity and Freedom in Christ
45:33 - Early Marriage and Its Effects
52:18 - Cheating and Chaos
1:04:28 - Navigating Infidelity and Finding Forgiveness
1:17:35 - The Journey of Love and Faith
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
Speaker 2:She takes the keys to her car, she takes off her wedding ring and throws it at me and says I hate you, I don't want to be with you, I hate you Basically. You know. Your key word here is what she said is you're too much like Jesus and I can't stand that.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and this episode is with my man, josh, and this episode has got some wild stuff in it. It is definitely not for younger years. I want to put that out there. There's some sad stuff. Also beautiful stuff, because this is the Death to Life podcast man Josh's testimony and what he has received is so beautiful I'm not going to step on it, we're just going to get into that and this is Josh's story. From Death to Life, buckle Up, strap and Love. Y'all, appreciate y'all. Where do you feel like the Josh Groff story starts? In regards to God, knowing who God is, and yeah, tell me that.
Speaker 2:I would say now just a warning. I'm a bit of a crier when it comes to just talking about God, so at some point, if I saw you Sorry, dude for canceling this podcast. there's no crying aloud I would say for me and I'm sure you, being raised seventh Adventist, you can relate in some degree, but when you're raised Christian, it just what you do, that is the norm for you. So I would say, growing up, my parents were first generation Christians, so they both got saved. If you know what an Emmaus Walk is, my father got saved on an Emmaus Walk and then my mother got saved at the Nazarene Church in Grove City. What's an Emmaus Walk? An Emmaus Walk and I'm sure I'm not going to do it justice is basically it's an outreach where whatever go on this little walk like I don't know, like I forget how long it is, and basically you know they, you hear a word or a message or whatnot, and they like give I want to say an altered call or whatnot, but it's just an outreach. Like walk is the best way I can describe it. It's more than that, but in that shell. So yeah, so obviously it was born and my dad was in a ministry. If you know who Stephanie Gretzinger is and her family, she used to watch us as kids. So we like Stephanie. Gretzinger used to watch you as kids from Bethel, although she's no longer there.
Speaker 1:Man, her music has been such a blessing in my life. Man she's been. Yeah, you were like you remember her?
Speaker 2:No, no, I was a baby, but this is just like we know their family, their family's, still here.
Speaker 1:No, last time I checked, that's cool, yeah, so name drop, stephanie Gretzinger Just throwing out celebs.
Speaker 2:She has no idea who I am, she probably don't remember. So yeah, so just kind of in the whatever evangelical kind of like circles. And then I'd say probably my first church was now I'm in name drop churches, I hope I'm allowed to do that was the Zion Christian Center here in Columbus, and so when you go there my whole experience was the emphasis was on the gifts and using your giftings. So, like you know, that was pretty normal to me. It wouldn't have been odd to see a triple backflip from the top and then everyone's speaking in tongues at once, like this was just that kind of environment. So that was kind of my experience growing up. And then we went to Faithlife here in New Albany, columbus, which was like we just went from the gifts to the prosperity gospel. If you Kenneth Copeland, then you know what Faithlife is, if you're into that stuff. So, yeah, I went there. And then after that we just went cold turkey. We moved, we moved out away from the city, got the country a little bit and I would say around that time was probably when, for the first time, I had at least started to start to kind of have a relationship with God, kind of, because before it was all like yeah, yeah, yeah, like Christian is like we, you know, if you know, you know you can speak Christian is. So I went to a lighthouse Christian Academy, which is a missionary prep school I think it's a Baptist missionary prep school and they gave me, like anyone who's done like any type of seminary, like a very basic like New Testament studies, the life of Christ. These are like thing you go through, just learning about scripture, go through scripture, and I really enjoyed that, like I really enjoyed the knowledge of understanding scripture. That was something I enjoyed. So for there, I'd say that was my first little introduction to man, like getting not just knowing like about God, like like maybe getting in the word and understanding a little bit more about God. I hope that was a long response, but I hope that someone answered no man, that's super cool.
Speaker 1:Who? Who was he? Was he in regards to you, like, was he happy with you? How did he feel about you in your mind?
Speaker 2:I knew he loved me, like I think a lot of people get to that point. They know God loves me. To be honest about rich, I just didn't think about it that much, like to be honest, honestly, like it was, it didn't take up. I was so young man like I was 16, 17, was just not focused on on necessarily that I hadn't really started to dip into like pornography or like lust at that point. So in regards to a pretty sheltered kid at that point, so to be honest with you, man, I never really thought about it. I eventually did, but not like growing up.
Speaker 1:How did you feel about yourself then? Like growing up.
Speaker 2:I mean, I knew I was self centered and I realize that now, but I thought I was a good person man.
Speaker 1:I thought I was a good person. Wait, so you didn't know you were self centered then. No, I didn't.
Speaker 2:No okay, Ignorance is bliss. Maybe if I would have sat back and really laid it out I might have, but so yeah, I think so much of that is just being a kid.
Speaker 1:I mean, kids are self centered by just their whole life is about them. They're not taking care of anybody. Yeah, they're just trying to get theirs. Like I watch my kids like a breakfast. Like they're just trying to get theirs. Like I want the last bite of peaches. No, I want the last bite of peaches. They don't have to take care of anybody but themselves. My goals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my goals, yeah, my goals. What I'm trying to do today, what is not going to benefit me today, it's all like, when I woke up, like that was my schedule for that day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, and so it's not strange to have that mindset at all. So you're 16, 17,. You're learning about the life of Christ in this school. You have I feel like from our conversations you have a natural inclination for learning. Am I wrong? Am I?
Speaker 2:right. I wouldn't say it comes easily, but I mean I enjoy, and I enjoy knowledge If it has its proper place. Yes, I like knowledge, I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so that kind of made it fun for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah it was fun. I didn't, to be fair. I was looking back. I don't know even what I understood. I probably just knew a bunch of facts.
Speaker 1:But so what happened? What happened next?
Speaker 2:Well, I got my first girlfriend. And when I got my first girlfriend I'm a guy on a standard check my parents were pretty strict. The burden that they put on us not that we didn't need it, I'm just saying that the burden was pretty heavy on us. So, like you know, probably good rules, but you weren't allowed to have a girlfriend to a certain point Just a bunch of rules. So it made it very hard, but I didn't give a crap about that Rich, because I wanted what I wanted and so I went. I started dating this girl.
Speaker 1:What were the rules? Like no girlfriend until what? 17, 16?.
Speaker 2:I believe it's hard to break down a rule for them. It was kind of more of like when they said so, but when they said so could have been it was just 18 would be the bare minimum where they even consider. I'd say so, yes, that. So like that was the rule. Like no phone till your graduate high school, but we won't let you graduate high school until you're 18. So basically no phone, and then when you graduate high school you can get your phone and then when you're done with those two, you can go get your license.
Speaker 1:So as what do you think about all that man? As I mean, I have kids. My daughter's turning 11 this week. What do you think like that did to you? Because I had the similar rules. I think mine was we didn't get, I didn't get my license till I was 17. I couldn't date till I was 17. Yeah, but it kind of just. I was a good kid so I tried to keep by it, but I don't know if I would have been rebellious, what would have happened there?
Speaker 2:Here's how I feel about none of these things are wrong. If a parent puts this on an adult, it is regardless of what my parents did. I was meant to honor and be my parents and I wish I would have I called myself a lot more troubled than I had to because I didn't. So those rules are good, like they aren't wrong or right, but I would say for me, what it did because of my nature and I had never at least renewed my mind to what was in, what was already in there was just the fact of when you are surrounded by people who have everything that you want, it makes it very, very hard on like a 17 year old, when all your friends are like 17, 18, doing whatever they want and not like not necessarily like they're doing bad stuff, but just you know they have it. So it made it very hard on me in my current state because I wanted all those things. So I would just say I think it depends on the child too. I don't think there's like an overall, like plan, one size fits all. So I would just say you know, it's a form of law and children do need a form of law and I can't say it really hindered me that much.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean I think, yeah, man, like my kids, God love them. They, they my son prayed this morning after worship. My daughter loves God, but also they need Jesus. Like they're, they don't know anything, like they just don't know anything. Man, at some point they're going to need it for themselves, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, they do, and that's what I would give credit to my parents, because I want to honor them, as they taught me what ended up helping me long term what was right and what was wrong, and they, they gave me a real good understanding of what the law was like, because of how severe their law was Now, not like most egg law severe, but like right right.
Speaker 1:So that didn't stop you from getting your first girlfriend. They know about it.
Speaker 2:They eventually found out about it. So this is so got my first girlfriend, honestly Rich, great, like when I say great girl like she was honest the where I was at and where she was at I should have, I don't know, like thank goodness that I got removed from her life, because this is when I, when this is, we were in school, like we were in school and we were home school, but there's these things called co-ops, but it's like school for a day, so whatever we'd see each other whenever on like school or whatnot. And this is where I would say I started, you know, being 17, sold under the flesh, knowing what was right but not being able to do, is when we started, like you know, experiment like touching and those kind of things, and it wasn't like it wasn't. No one starts out Rich, like, oh man, I'm going to go do this. It's usually a little by little some people do, I suppose, but little by little and then it becomes more and more and more and more, and then you're out of place where you're like, uh-oh, you know, but thank the Lord that she had enough with them to stop me from going where I wanted to go in that relationship. That eventually kind of just it was that eventually just kind of led to the end of that relationship. My parents were just irate with me because I wasn't going to listen to them and I just give them lip service like okay, mom, okay dad, you got it.
Speaker 1:You know that you weren't trying to listen to them, or were you trying to, and when it got to, like when the mood was right, you're like I really want to do this thing.
Speaker 2:I would like. What do you mean when the mood is right, like what do you?
Speaker 1:mean Like when they're saying, son, this is not good, this is bad. You're like, yeah, y'all are probably right, but then when you're in the situation you're like, oh, but I really want to do this thing. Or when they're talking to you and they're like, son, this is it, this is wrong, not right, you're like, hmm, y'all don't really know what you're talking about. Which one was that?
Speaker 2:Um, I would. They had no idea about the touch or anything. They thought I was a suit and tie. I would never kind of kid. But, man Rich, when I tell you, my heart was so rebellious. I had such a distaste for my parents. I thought they were so stupid for what they thought. And then I look back I'm like I was so stupid.
Speaker 3:you know, that's how it works, right, and then I like that oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So I would say it was just more of just a total outright rebellion with just a face of I do what's right, Sure so, but the minute I was given even the psalest opportunity, I would take it.
Speaker 1:I hear you, I hear you. I'm thinking about Romans eight, where it says that the mind that is set on the flesh does not submit to God's law. Indeed, it cannot. And when I'm thinking about the law, I think about it more. You know, not in like the Western way of like a legal thing, like don't do this thing, but more like the law of gravity, like if I drop this, it will fall to the ground. If you are participating in things that only married people should participate in, it's just going to bring destruction, it's just going to bring sadness, like that's the law. But when your mind is set on the flesh, it does not submit to that. It can't even see that that's going to be a problem. You're like these people don't know what they're talking about. This is a dumb rule. Why it's not submitting to God's law. It cannot even see that participating in this action will cause destruction. And I see it more that way than just saying, oh, you say, don't do that, I'm going to do it anyway. Not submitting to God's law is more like not even seeing that this is a problem.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think I would. I think I would agree with you. I think, rich, that we are inclined to what like. For instance, I was taught and I'm sure you were too like don't do that, like man, if you, if you have sex for marriage, you are or not, the period culture is necessarily wrong in a whole. But the idea of like that was the end, all be all, baby. Like if you did that, you're done Like that. That was a bad one.
Speaker 1:And my parents had both waited and they were very proud of it. As I'm not trying, to think. I guess, like it was just like, really like they were very happy in their life and in their marriage and I think one of the reasons is because they had submitted to God's law. They realized, oh, this will be bad. And so they talked to us like this is not a great thing, you know. It wasn't like they were beating us over the head with it, but we just knew, like you were saying, what was wrong and what was right. I think that was the reason why I was able to abstain, not because I felt that for my parents, I knew that they were right, even though man, I really I mean I wanted to, but I wanted much more to not mess up in my life. I guess that was why the fear of messing up rather than the wisdom of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And I want to clarify I did not go all the way with my first girlfriend. I'm gonna get myself trouble here, yeah, but praise God, she broke up with you because you were trying to get rid of me because I was Smart lady, smart lady indeed. So, yeah, that kind of began and then, I don't know, I had some of my. This is where I would say, would maybe that that facade I was putting up started to crack a little. I had my one of my best friends at the time. He was dating a girl who, you know, it is Brianna now and he was, he was dating this girl. You know, it's like when it just, you know like it's not like. When I saw Brianna, I was like, oh man, like I really like no, it was just like you, someone that was there, like just another person, like Bill's girlfriend from school, I guess, wasn't really anyone, it was just someone. So that kind of happened and that's just kind of how I knew Brianna. And so I had broken up with this previous girl and was still living with my parents at the time. So, if I remember correctly, they had broken up and, oh man, was I crafty, rich man. I look like I was, like I was such a snake and I look back man, and I was like consoling my friend over here While he was like really broken up about this girl he just lost. But you know, I was doing guys back talking to her Bms yeah, like the snake I was and so so, whatever that's kind of happened and I was able to hide that for a good bit. But then one time my wife posted a picture like this. She was my girlfriend at the time, but she posted a picture of this is gonna make you laugh, but I had my ears pierced and she pierced my ears. She posted a picture of the piercing in her bathroom and well, they saw that and then all it all went crazy from there. Like your buddies or your parents, or my buddy, my parents knew that I like this girl. Like they knew that I didn't like that I liked her. But they were like you know what are we gonna do? He's like kind of like 17, 18, you know, we're kind of run out of options here.
Speaker 1:So so your bro, when he saw that, what was that like?
Speaker 2:They're pissed because I'm real good friends, I'm probably better friends with his older brother and this was his younger brother, so, yeah, they were pissed. I mean, we didn't talk for by a year and a half after that like, yeah, so that didn't, that didn't go well, so that that was kind of like the crazy start of just started. My whole relationship with ground didn't even start out right Looking back. So yeah, I mean, that's kind of like that introduction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're dating her. You talked earlier about Pornography hadn't come into the game yet. When you're starting to learn about, at this point, when you're getting a little older, it seems hard to stay away from like, at what point, where did pornography start taking over?
Speaker 2:I would say the first time I was ever exposed to it was 15. My grandfather had a bunch of old, like dirty car magazine, like soft pornography, so like a bunch like a bunch of like dirty, like car magazines, like in a box, like way in his garage, like and I don't mean like my grandpa loved Lord, but he got stable and he was like 45, so like he still had I'm I hope that they were there back then. So I found those. That was my first in introduction to it and I think the whole reason I was able to stay away from that was just simply because I knew how much it would hurt, it would hurt my girlfriend at the time At that point. So, yeah, pornography I Would say pornography price started. It kept me away from it and I got to add this in real quick Is my parents got a divorce basically because my father got caught with pornography and that kind of like right then. So from that point on, like the BEM era just actually got obliterated from that point on, sadly. So for that reason alone that kept me away from it.
Speaker 3:For Cuz I got you and that happened like 16 17.
Speaker 2:Oh so I got to see a firsthand it was an extreme case, but a firsthand of what could happen Winston, specifically in the form of lust and pornography, enters into a relationship. So got to see that and that kept me away for a bit and I can't exactly say how it happened or I don't even remember really, the first time I looked at like hard porn it probably would have been a problem in 18 19,. You know I'm probably 18, yeah, 18, that's probably when I started and it was under control. I Controlled it through discipline at first. It was every once in a while, usually when, you know, I was feeling bad about myself and you know Brianna wasn't treating me right or something Happened, and that was just my comfort. That's what I go to for comfort. Yeah, how was it going with Brianna? So Brianna cheated on me at the very beginning of our relationship. What was? Some dude from her work and that was like very beginning of a relationship. I had an idea of like I should forgive her because Christ forgave her, but my reaction was more so of so when I found that out I knew this guy was so One night at. This is a perfect image of that, that double light man as I was at Bible study and so I left right out of the Bible study, went right over to that guy's work and I ordered a large lemonade and I went up to him over there and just like splashing in space and then basically got pushed out of the Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 1:So, oh, that's just tick-a-bye, I'm not sure the whole lemonade, like you like all of it yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's kind of shot of it in space. Really not cool, really feel bad about that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and then I I whipped on out of there, so that was so Let me ask you this question Were you and Brianna already participating in things you shouldn't be at this?
Speaker 2:point, not really, not outside. I mean, yes, probably, but we had not, we hadn't gone, like it was just like kiss him and just you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, hug in, like that kind of thing. Nothing like more, like making out, I suppose, would be the word, but nothing like outside of that.
Speaker 1:So when this hit you, like when she's done this thing that she shouldn't be doing, like, were you Like? What did that make you feel or believe about yourself? Do you know if you were thinking more about yourself or were you like? Because it seems like us guys, we tend to compare everything and and build up all these stories in our minds and, like the enemy puts that on us to make us feel like we're nothing and makes us Were you experiencing that or were you just hurt?
Speaker 2:I wasn't experiencing that I was just angry. That was always the way I dealt with things. I was just just irate, just angry, jealous jealous of us all get out and Not really at her, which is so funny, because it's always put that we always put the blame on the person that isn't close to us sometimes is Like, oh, I mean, I can't believe he did that man, I'm gonna go do this, this, this to him because they write what he did to me. It becomes like that. So no, I had, I had nothing. It really had nothing to do with my value, like I never saw like myself, valuable differently. I was just angry. This is the best way I can put it. A trade was. She Remorseful yeah, she was remorseful. She said like, whatever that's, I found out like two months after the initial event happened. So so, yeah, so like, yeah, she was remorseful, she's just sorry. She said that you know I can't continue in this relationship Unless I let you know that that's what happened. And so, yeah, yeah, she was a muscle.
Speaker 1:So then it went better after that, or how did?
Speaker 2:you have oh well, no, like yeah, I guess. No, not at all in that regard. Yes, in the sense of that didn't happen again. But so what this did to me rich is because of that jealousy, is I don't how I explain this is I was like I want to make sure I get her before anyone else gets her, is I know that's a very much Wicked way to think, but that was my thought process at the time of well, if she's got, if she's already doing this with other dude, I want to make sure that I get everything. I came out of her before. You know, that actually happened, not that I thought it would. I can't really explain just my very self must, very self-centered mentality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, absolutely. I think that In some ways or you tell me if this was your experience you felt like she owed you something.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did. But I was also trying to self-preservation I'm just gonna get everything I can and then, well, whatever happens. And so what I did to do that is, I manipulated and just did like I'll let her tell her story. But I manipulated I. Eventually we started sleeping together and we felt whatever bad or whatnot. But once that awoke in me, that thing that was sent in me was out of control. There was no stopping. At that point I wanted to stop Roman Seven, the man who knows what's right. But yet this thing in me is so strong it overpowers my what I know is right. So I find that it was just overpowering is the way. But I remember sitting at the end of the bedrige and being like I would do anything to be free from this. I just remember having that thought.
Speaker 3:Sorry, trying to stand here.
Speaker 2:So yeah. So I just remember having that thought and just being caught. So we tried to stop. So many times I was like we need to do this, we need to stop, like I even sadly, even went down the route of you can't wear this because that'll make me feel this way. I was trying everything, man to get free, to get to stop doing this Cause I felt so horrible. I knew the law of God, I knew it was wrong. I just couldn't. I was living, condemned, really bad. I was teaching kids at Bible studying, been going to sleep with my girlfriend after, because knowledge doesn't ever actually change anything. Knowledge is just knowledge. It's understanding it and receiving it and actually what allows that to happen. So I had that, whatever. So double condemning myself.
Speaker 1:Man. I think the only way to get out of that practically is to break up. And I don't think, like when you're so infatuated with somebody and then you're connected to them chemically, like in such a powerful way, that's not really an option anymore, and that's why sex is so powerful. I mean cause it's built to fuse this thing together. It's like built like the purpose is good, it's supposed to tie man and wife together. But what happened when since then? But then when you're, when you're not in a wife, yeah, it's problematic. It's like, yeah, like we're tied together but we're not. Yeah, like any, we can leave at any point, and that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only thing I would add to that is breaking up, although it might temporarily slow down the sin that was happening for the sake of lack of sin. If my heart had never changed, nothing would have changed. No, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So nobody knows about this. You're keeping it secret, but like you're just, yeah, I'm like so condemned.
Speaker 2:So this is where my my, my initial introduction to life begins, where I remember I bought a house and Braden lived down the street from me and I get a call from my guy and he goes and he goes. Hey, maybe you come over here and let me tell you, at this point in time I look up to Braden big time. I tell him now I said back when I used to look up to you, so like Braden.
Speaker 1:I look up to Braden now and he's like 10 years younger than me and I look up to him.
Speaker 2:I still do. I just give him crap. I can't. I gotta keep him in this place. Don't want to get back into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, right, right. If you're listening to this, Braden, we don't care about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he calls me over. I'm sure he's showing you that funny. I think the cup thing he does, which is freaking hilarious. But so he like shows me the cup thing. Do you want me to explain it? Sure, yeah, explain it. So he has a clean cup and he has a dirty cup and he goes this is what you believe you are. And then he has a clean cup and he's like this is what Christ says you are. And then he takes some coffee grounds or something and sprinkles it into the cup. He's like did this change anything about you? And that's the gist of it. And the rhetorical answer is no. And that's basically what he showed me. And I remember thinking because I'm sure you're probably similar rich in the sense of anytime someone ever tries to lay down doctrine, I become instantly skeptical immediately, not just because there is so much false doctrine out there that, unfortunately, when true doctrine is actually spoken, it's initial to have that guard up. At least it was for me.
Speaker 1:I think before I knew scripture I might be like that now, because I feel like I know a little bit. I'm much more open to hearing what someone has to say, because I remember, when I didn't know it, that I would be on guard, and then it changed my life. So now I'm like, oh well, let me hear you out. There's no fear in me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. I guess it's a little bit, maybe a little fair to say that At this point in my life. I was debating like not like big debates or nothing, but I was pretty regularly getting into it with Calvinist and reformed people about beliefs specifically like the doctrine of election, and I even got a tattoo on my arm because of that itself.
Speaker 1:Because you're in a debate. You got a debate tattoo.
Speaker 2:Not a debate. It was just something that I was investing my time in of just debating with just Calvinist and reformed folk and anyone who knows that to let undivided elections a big part of their doctrine. And so I, whether or not it had nothing to do with it. But I got a Titus 211 on my arm, which is for by the grace of God, salvation's offered to all men. So at that point in my life I was knowledge was in a sense, what I considered my Christianity, I guess maybe would be the best explanation for that. And that puffs up. It does puff up. That's what Paul says yeah, so it popped up. So Brayden comes here. I like the guy too much to get into it with him. So I'm like okay, whatever, like sure, brayden. Yeah, like hey, man, that's really good. Thank you, go home, man. And I can't explain it, rich, but I knew that I had started to believe it just a little bit. I might not have been all the way there yet there were some family problems that were going on at the time but regardless, I wasn't all the way there yet, but I started to accept some of the truth of who I was in Christ, of being right before God and understanding that you know holy, blameless and pure. Because of what? But because of faith and what Jesus did.
Speaker 1:Can we talk about that for a second? What a weird place to be in, right Like you get a tattoo on your arm because you believe, like, what was the purpose of it being offered to everyone. Why was that verse so important? It was just a.
Speaker 2:It's just not necessarily like, for instance, just a verse that I really liked, that I used a lot. It was a large part of, I guess, what I would bring up. It was just a verse I liked. I mean, it could have been any number of verses, but they just that's the one I picked.
Speaker 1:So you're arguing, debating, you're also a teacher, you're teaching, but in your own personal life you can't seem to get out of your own way. And then your buddy guy you look up to, who is your girlfriend's brother, is like you're clean, my man, and you're like I don't know if I can believe that.
Speaker 2:Because what did I just do there, right? What did I just do when he told me I was clean?
Speaker 1:You thought about what you'd been doing.
Speaker 2:I looked to my works to see if that was my actions made me clean, but that had nothing to do with it. I looked at myself to judge myself according to myself. But regardless, I know this is not a doctrine testimony. This is a-.
Speaker 1:No man, share it. Man. I mean people need to understand, like if you're just like I've considered myself clean and you're all like continuing and sin, just continuing, continued, like that's not gonna line up.
Speaker 2:So we can clarify, when I say I'm pure, what we mean by that is me and my own works and my own actions. I've made myself pure because I'm so good. No one's saying that. No one's saying that. We are simply saying because of what Christ accomplished on the cross, apart from our works, he presents us clean, holy and without blemish. And if Christ cleans something and then presents it before God, first colossians, I believe 122. No, yeah. And so if Christ cleans something, I'm going to take that as Christ cleaned me and presented me as pure, holy and above reproach before God, like I'm going to take that at its base value and believe that about myself. In the minute you start going well, I did that, I did this, I did that, so I can't be clean Is the minute you fall back into a work-based mentality of going well, my actions decide who I am, and you have, after Romans, five it's not actions that decide who we are, it's birth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, colossians 122, you brought that up you're presented holy, blemish and above reproach. Two chapters later, in Colossians three says because you have died with Christ, therefore put to death what is earthly in you, sexual immorality and purity, passion. So you're presented clean and then you start stop participating in the former life. You don't stop participating in the formal life to then be clean. You are cleaned first to then stop participating in your formal life.
Speaker 2:And I got to. We're just going to keep dropping Dan Moller's name until he gets on here. Dan Moller like to say that you become the tree before you produce the fruit. You just don't try to produce the fruit, and I would agree with that. So where were we?
Speaker 1:So yeah, he says you're clean. You're like you don't know what's going on with me, my boy. But then you go home and you're like, is there a chance that this could be true?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I would say that large part of this influence was because I looked up to brain. So much of me not brushing it off. Thank goodness, the Lord used him to open the top of my heart and so, whatever I hear this, so forgive it a couple days later or whatnot, but I go to sleep with my girlfriend and you know, rich, it wasn't the same, because before I had an out, before I had an out, which is this is who I am. I'm gonna try my best, but now, instead of living condemned, I felt that conviction of you're righteous, holy and pure while you're doing this, and it did not feel good. That felt real out of place. So, yeah, that was the last time I ever did that.
Speaker 1:Like thanks, braden, you ruined this thing for me.
Speaker 2:No, I needed Braden to get me out of there. At that point I was considering telling someone so that I could stop sinning, just turn myself in per se. But yeah, so I got that. And man, after that man, I went full on righteousness in Christ mode and I started reading so did Brianna know like where your mind was at?
Speaker 1:Or were you just like, hey, I'm just kind of done with this.
Speaker 2:She always knew we wanted to quit. I just told her babe, we're holy and pure. I said we, I don't. This has nothing like. This doesn't belong. This doesn't belong in who I believe. Now I'm like, because we're pure, I don't wanna sin anymore. I think that was maybe how I put it is I don't wanna sin because I'm pure, because those who hope in Christ purify themselves, as Christ is pure. 1 John 3. But yeah, so that was, I think my initial, at least at the time, understanding that I gave her.
Speaker 1:How did that conversation go? Was she like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2:I think it was really tough for her Rich because, like Nami just is, she valued herself off men. So when I mentioned her attention, that's how she got value, specifically like when lust is what it was. When a man lusted her, that was where she was getting her value. So when I stopped showing her that lustful intent, it was a bit of a curve walk. So it's like, well, that's not how you show love, cause the only way she experienced it is if you love me, then you desire me in a lustful way. I didn't desire her lustful way away. In fact, I probably loved her for the first time ever because I didn't want anything from her. I just loved her because I loved her. That was it. So I think that was let's think about the gospel match just flips. Everything I said is for her. That was hard to comprehend, I believe.
Speaker 1:So you did a 180 there and it was just really off this understanding that Brayton had given you. Did you go back and ask more questions or learn more? How long was it just off of this idea that you're clean?
Speaker 2:Well, here's what I did, rich is. I heard a teaching and get this, it's a blow to your mind. I went into the Bible and I started to seek it out for myself to see if it was actually correct. Because if I'm experiencing something, that doesn't necessarily make it true because it's not my foundation for truth. My foundation for truth is the Word of God. So if I feel a certain way, I got to go and make sure and figure out why that happened according to the Word of God. You know, I started going into Scripture and I was like, yeah, I guess he kind of does say that we're righteous and holy and pure. I was like I guess it does. I don't know why I never caught that before because, you know, sometimes it was just a melon headed about it like, yeah, righteous, pass over it, keep reading. There was more reading the Bible before of like man, I need to do better than that. I need to do better than that. I should probably stop doing that. But now I was reading it from the position of someone was right before God and I was like, wow, I'm like it's all over the place, man. It's like everywhere I go I'm seeing righteous, holy, pure, sanctified, like justified.
Speaker 1:Whatever translation you use, I mean it's amazing how that lens switch, changes your life. Like like before we read Scripture and like it was like this kind of thing it could be us if we get our act together. And then it was like no, this is true about you. Do you believe it? Yeah, and that's the lens that changes everything it does yeah, so you're learning. Where are you reading? Mostly it was it just in the epistles Romans, colossians, ephesians, galatians.
Speaker 2:I would say, if I can remember I'm trying to remember I would probably say it just had probably like Ephesians. I wasn't really into Romans that much, although this last year I feel like I mastered in Romans. But yeah, I would say I just kind of like reading, not just more like Ephesians and like those smaller books Colossians, thessalonians, like maybe the smaller books. You see that a lot in those books.
Speaker 1:And that was just building in you and building in you.
Speaker 2:It was adding to the scripture as I already accumulated, because I had accumulated scripture before. But now I look back at that and it's coming to life, probably for the first time, and it's like, okay, so like I know this and this means that so I'm going to go back and read this. I'm like this meant this the whole time, but I wasn't even like like there. So I guess it just went back in and started to reread what I already understood or thought I did to try to get a better picture maybe the best way to describe it.
Speaker 1:How was the relationship going then, as this is going?
Speaker 2:on Pretty good, honestly. I mean, if we just having a good time, you know we're just hanging out with the family doing whatever like you're supposed to, I can't really like hanging.
Speaker 1:We just hanging out with like our friends or whatnot, and then yeah, the weight of sex and all that after did you feel like relief?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I felt free. When you live condemned for so long, man, you get uncondemned, you can walk around with confidence, knowing that I'm right with God. And it has nothing to do with my works, although my works are evident of what I believe.
Speaker 1:Mercy. So then, what happened then, my man? Then we got married. When did you decide to get engaged? Was that like a long time coming, or I got married three months.
Speaker 2:I mean we proposed to her three months after she turned 18. The only reason I didn't propose to her when she turned 18 is because she didn't want me to propose to her when she turned 18. So she turned, I mean I was 18. I had my own house, I had my car, I had my job. I mean I was. We were set to get married. That was the whole reason I took those steps. So as soon as she turned 18, I proposed her, like whatever three months after, I suppose, and then we got married, I believe in about June that. So I proposed in March and got married in June.
Speaker 1:You guys in Ohio you guys are like everyone on this podcast from Ohio got married. We don't mess around right, Like seven years old, Like what?
Speaker 3:in the world.
Speaker 1:Got to get an early start on things, but, and so it's since. Savannah and Brayden got married at such a young age and your families were all cool with this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I would say in the homeschooled Christian community in Columbus it's more abnormal to see someone get married past 25. I would say that's abnormal. Of the friends I all grew up with, I'd say there is maybe two or three that aren't married yet. I mean it's pretty normal if you're even somewhat relatively capable of getting married.
Speaker 1:So have you seen blessings in that in the early, that people getting married at a younger age?
Speaker 2:We haven't yet gotten to see the long term effects of these. But I will say, man, a lot of my friends have kids now that I was hanging out with 17. And yeah, I mean I think there are benefits in either way. You decide to go have your kids early. Well, your kids will take care of you when you're older, probably sooner, I mean, if you have them a little later you'll probably be a little bit more prepared. But you know, just working a little bit in the later you just pay off.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing, man, People think that they get ready for marriage now in some sense getting married at 15 or 17. Like, obviously I'm against that. I would say that's illegal. Yeah, but marriage is what actually prepares you for being married. It's kind of like all the advice you get when, before you're pregnant, like one day you guys will get pregnant and everyone's going to give you advice and you'll be like uh-huh, uh-huh, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. And then you come home from the hospital with that baby and then you're like, well, what do we do now? That's when you actually start learning what to do. It's kind of like getting married or having the baby prepares you for the thing that you're now in. So I see a lot of benefit in it. I'm sure there's different problems, but I see, and I mean I got married at 24, so I can't like it wasn't 24. Yeah, old man, but uh.
Speaker 2:You might have to head this out. You might have to head this out, rich. I'd like to keep creating more work for you, but you know my dad's five years older than you.
Speaker 1:Your dad is five years older than me. That's funny. So you get married and you, just what did you think? Like smooth sailing, now we can have sex again. Now, like.
Speaker 2:I was living free, rich, I don't know how to explain it, but like marriage had nothing to do with my life's purpose at the point, like, obviously being a good husband, like I love my wife, like obviously those things. But like I mean, at this point, rich, I was free, I was concentrated, I'd say, mostly on just. You know, talking about freedom, you know going and living a godly life was where all my focus was at. Marriage was the just. I don't want to say like next step, that was important to me. I wanted to get married to Brianna. I love Brianna, um, but it was like, okay, we're going to like, I'm just going to get married. And then, you know, we're like my goal doesn't change, like, um, you know, when Paul speaks of, you know it's better not get married for the sake of of, you know, ministering the gospel, um, like for me, I was like, well, I'm, I understand that, but I'm just going to get married and still administer the gospel, because you do well if you get married to do better if you don't. Um, so yeah, so that was just kind of me. You know, we were getting married, I was excited to get married. I was like, here we go, man, we're going to go uh, you know, just have a great man. It's funny, dude. You go and you're like man, we're going to have a great marriage. We're going to be like this. I know what Christ has done to me. I said everything's going to be great and awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I'm so. So is that? How is that? What happened?
Speaker 2:Well, I would say, let's see what we got, mary and June. So we got to without Christmas and things are going great on all accounts. I mean I, we were. When you don't have any kids, I mean you're making money because you don't have any kids, um, your expenses are low. So, like you know, we're just living, living our life, we're going over, you know, having Bible study, you know ministering the gospel, growing, learning a lot in scripture. And then I got laid off from my job, um, beginning of the year about after we got married. So I went over and started another job where I, uh, I would work there for six hours and then have to drive an hour somewhere else and work another six hours, so I can do that five days a week. So, as you imagine, I was exhausted, um, and wasn't super present, um, not because I didn't want to be like that's not a fun thing to do, but, like you know, crap happens, um, yeah. So so you know I'm doing that, uh, and it's about not too long. After that, uh, I'm playing with Braden or we're. We're playing games with Braden, um, and to get a call from my wife, who was? We just got off work and this is the first time that I realized. You know that's odd, but I'm not going to get into anything of it. So I get a call and she's like hey, I told her in my car, so I go down there and that's all done. I take care of the car. I, you know, I talk to the police, I do all that. Um, then we get home and she's like hey, my friends are picking me up, I'm leaving. And I go what, what do you mean? You're, you're leaving. And she's like, yeah, I'm leaving. And if I come, friend, come pick her up, I mean what you going to do? I was like, okay, I don't want you to leave, but if you know all this to me, I mean I don't know what really want to do. Um, friends, come pick her up. I don't see her for like two days. I just imagine like you're just white, just like, hey, fine, two days, like everything's been cool up to this point, very little communication, just leaves. Um, I'm like, okay, that's weird, I said, but I was, I guess, 19 at one point. I said, um, I guess when? Cause she had just got her license after we got married, so she was just experiencing freedom from her parents for the first time being married to me, which caused some obviously own things to walk through. Um, so I'm like whatever. It's just prior her to being. I mean, we're like six months married rich, like anything going on is so far from my mind at this point. So I'm just like whatever. Um, so that was the first time. Maybe something was a little odd and from that point forward I'd say, give it about two months. It's my wife is never home. She gets off work, she stays at her friend's Gabby's house, like so I thought was Gabby at the time and just was never home. Dude was never home and I was always working. I had time to go and play bounty hunter on my wife. So that's going on. People start to obviously ask questions after three months. Like why am I the only one showing up at the family events? Where's Brianna? My family's like I don't understand. Like you know, they're like they just no one. No one. I'll put it this way. It was so far from everyone's wants, like there's no way that that could happen, like it's just like one of those things that's so far from it seems so unrealistic. So, whatever, I hear that I go to sleep. I believe it's on my wife's birthday. I go to sleep. She's out with her mom for her birthday. I go to sleep and I wake up and there's Braden at the end of my bed. I'm like, well, if Brianna's not here and Braden's in my bed, that can't be good. So he goes hey, man, freeze the messin' around on you. I didn't really know at that minute at the time, but I had a pretty good idea of what that meant at the time. So go out there, whatever. And there's Brianna on the couch. It looked like she just recently been crying. So I go, I say hey, like what's going on. Like, hey, what's wrong. And so, whatever, braden's like I'm leaving. He's like you guys have something to talk about.
Speaker 3:Like. Thanks, man.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. And so we're there and she tells me that she's been sleeping with this other dude for three months while we've been married and that's where she's been this whole time is living at his house with him. It was one of her managers from work, so that ensues. Obviously there's heartbreak, like initially man, when you hear that I mean that's not a fun thing to just get hit with. So you know, whatever I'd always this is where I got to be careful man is I'd always said if Brianna cheats on me, that changes nothing about forgiveness in me. It doesn't change anything. I'm not calling to forgive if it's easy. I'm called to forgive because I've been forgiven. And when you understand of what you've, if we start going well, you know this, no, I understand the weight of my sin, what it was before, the wretch that I was, and what I've been forgiven of and what I've been moved into is when you realize what you've been forgiven of. It's not very hard to forgive people of what they've done and I always say that Sorry, I got, yeah, you're kidding me. So, yeah, yeah. So whatever she told me, she told him at first. You know there's a, you know a wow, like bomb shell. I'm like, well, I forgive you. I said I love you, I want to. You know, just keep you know, I want us to. I don't want to say reconcile, but you know I want to move forward, I guess is the word I'm looking for. So I want to move forward. And so her phone's on the table. So I grabbed her phone. Who talk about a reaction? I grabbed that phone. I mean you would have thought that Dr Jekyll, mr Hyde, so then I forget exactly what left that point. But I said I wasn't giving her phone back. So she starts like straight up, like assaulting me, bro, Like just swinging on me, kick, no, my wife's not very big or very strong, necessarily, so it's not like I was in real danger here, but like she's hitting me. I'm like stop, babe, stop. And so, whatever, I'm not giving her phone back. And so she's just wailing on me. Man, I'm in the corner of my house and she's just I mean I got like both my hand, like my guard up, and she's just like I mean hammering on me. So I take her down and I'm on her. And for any grapplers on the podcast, I got her an outside saddle which just stopped you from basically being able to sit up, in a nutshell, and so I got her there and her keys, rich. Her keys are on the floor cause they were in her pocket. You know what's on her keys, rich? What is on it? A bottle of pepper spray.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:So she grabs a bottle of pepper spray and I'm not kidding you, rich she point blank blasts me full on in the face with this can. So I have pepper sprayed on top of my wife, who I just found out was cheating on me. He was scrapping, kicking, biting me, and I'm just at this point like I like not not hurting her, I'm just controlling her at this point and she's just flipping her wig. And so I grabbed the phone and I'm scared at this point that the police are gonna show up because of the amount of noise she's making. And you know, if you know, please come up, I'm going to jail, which is fine, I respect that. Um, so I grabbed up my phone and I go hey, siri, cause I can't see you, remember? I'm like hey, siri, call her mom. She calls her mom, her mom, on the phone. Dude, she sees on the camera me on top of Brea, bre just like be holding Bre down and covered in pepper spray, and Bre screaming like she. Like she's you facetimed her? No, yeah, I think so. I forget, but maybe what? Yeah, maybe I'm remembering a little wrong, but maybe it was just a call, but regardless, she hears the commotion and so I hear her mom screaming. She's screaming. Oh, my gosh, my gosh, keep, keep. Her dad like here, we go, get you over there. So she calls Braden and Elijah, my other brother-in-law. So they come to my house and I have I have Rihanna's back just controlling her. So they get there and you know they're sitting there in my kitchen with glass everywhere because she knocked over this vase we got from our wedding, so it's all glass all over the floor. I'm pepper spray in my face. The dogs I say man, my dogs didn't protect me at all, cause they were just sitting there watching me and so, whatever, we're there and they walk into that and you know I wiped the pepper spray from my eyes and it's just like dude, the only way I can explain it. It's so surreal. Like how is this happening? Like talking about a bad day, I mean it's like, oh my gosh, like so I'm there, get that on my face. They're sitting down and they're just trying, man, they're just trying to, you know, trying to reason with Rihanna, just trying to trying their best to reason with her about my she's. You can tell when someone rejects what they're presented. I don't mean that to be mean, but you know you can't force someone to accept something that they don't want to accept. There is a true rejection of the gospel and I know I understand I don't want it or I don't feel worthy, and you can't convince someone they're worthy of theirs. So, necessarily convinced they're unworthy Because their faith is active there too and the sense of they are choosing to believe something despite the evidence. There's never enough evidence from belief. So, yeah, she's there or whatnot. So you're trying to convince her of the gospel. I had tried so many times before. At this point, man, I'm just recovering from getting assaulted and pepper sprayed. So her family's trying to administer In the backstreet. The day before that Brayton had come over, she said I'm sorry that I've been so distant. This is where it really hurt, rich. And she said I want to be baptized into Christ and be reborn. So we baptized her in the tub and she went and left and slept with her boyfriend that same night. So that was like the reality of I've been played for three months and she would say that she's going to Bible study because she knew that I wouldn't tell her no. So you just really use something I love to try and just leverage me out of it, I suppose. So, yeah, they're over there ministering to her and so I'm just sitting there like whatever, like she's clearly rejecting this. I told her I forgive you, I want this. This is forgotten. Like this is forgotten, this is like it never happened to me. I said if you come back, sorry, give me a second.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was just one of those, sorry, it was one of those moments where it was like my what I believe I'm sorry I know you're here, this is that you don't worry about it it was what I believe. When I say I believe, do I believe it? And that was the the reality of that situation for me, of I don't have another option. My option is to do what's right. There is no, there's no, I can't do what's right and I can't do what's right there's. I can do what's right. And I mean it was, it was tough because at that point and I wasn't really expecting there to be a turnaround, but, like, at that point there didn't seem to be a turnaround, you know, but I was willing at that point to lose everything for the sake of doing right. I just, at that point, I just like man, still kind of, I guess, in shock, maybe the word I would say so they all leave. There's never man sitting there in bed next to her. I mean just crying so hard To see someone you love so much Show such a hate towards you for nothing you did to them is a weird, that's what, the weird feeling, something I hadn't experienced at that point, like I experienced like, obviously people don't like you, like everyone not, but like someone like I mean it's your wife, so it's like man like I'd. You know I'm willing to, I die daily for my wife, in the sense of laying my life down and to see someone who you've done nothing but right to just absolutely do the most unspeakable evil things to you for no reason except for that they wanted to, without, without having a good reason I suppose, not that there needs to be, but that was a. That was really weird for me, because I'm sure you've heard before. Some of you will be saying you know, coming to Christ and this wasn't why. But like you know people who say you come to Christ, man, he'll change your life and everything will be good. I push back on that. I think we can scripturally show that strongly. Not the case, and experience is yeah, things got probably 10 times worse for me after I accepted Christ. But I will say, if I hadn't accepted Christ and gotten that revelation of freedom, I would have never been prepared for what was about to happen, right, right, because I wouldn't have dealt with the same way I would have dealt with it. Um, so I, whatever crime, I slept that night, whatever. I'm just like. Christ is Lord man, christ is Lord and I'm Going to do what's right because Christ is Lord, because that's what I'm obligated to do. There's no option for me. There's no. I can do what's wrong. Yeah, I can do what's right. When you died, to send your life for Christ. I don't count my life as even my own. I lay it down for Christ and this is what I do and it's I would rather suffer. I would rather suffer and lose everything for the sake of the gospel than be comfortable and, you know, not have to deal with me. That for the and, as I told, brain, nothing else going through this at the time is. I would rather People see it's possible to walk and forgive this and that there's a way that it's possible, when the face of such evil, that it's possible to live like this. Now we're not just out here saying you can, but that we do Right. So, yeah, that night was tough. I wake up the next morning and I call the dude she was sleeping with and I just tell him hey, dude, I just want you to know I forgive you, I love you, I love you. You know, like I would call you to repentance. I said I pray that. You know I used to be very much in that same state. I just want you to know I forgive you and I love you and you know you're obviously not going to see my wife anymore. But you know like, I just want you to know that. You know I, I forgive you. Whether that means they think you were not like did he say anything? Yeah, it was really weird to be honest with you, but he was like yeah, man, because I know those things are tough. If you ever want to talk to me about it or anything like you ever want like me to talk to you, I'm like there's a temptation of me right now. Just beat the crap out of you so I'm going to put myself in a temptation. Did you say that? No, no, that was, that was temptation. I probably got my butt kicked, um, but it's the anyways. Um yeah. So like I was like yeah, cool man, like whatever, like you're not going to see my wife anymore, have a nice life, basically, uh, so yeah, that happened, took care of that and basically just asked him like you know, do I have anything to worry about? Like health wise? He's like no, no, we're good, so move forward with that. At this point, man, the family's just wrecked because her obviously, you know, braden's family are a pastor, and sometimes not saying this, this is the point. But when you're a pastor, so you have to uphold a certain persona. Sure, and it's more judgmental, I would say, when a pastor's family is acting out, then maybe a congregation member. So at this point they're just wrecked, dude. I mean, I think they felt a lot of shame that that's what was going on, just to see their daughter just do what she did, just because she wanted to. I think run a lot of shame. And I told them like guys, breonna chose to do this. You, you, brianna chose to do what she did. This isn't on you, guys, like no more than it's on me. I'm her husband, although I could accept the blame too, but we understand like Brianna chose to do these things because she wanted to do so, yeah, I go to Chick-fil-A next day to return whatever her work stuff and bring comes with me, because I am scratched From just head to toe actually looks like a cat just mauled me. Um, that was just like you know. So we had somebody said, like you know, this did happen and whatnot. So that week it's really hard, rich, to see someone you love desire someone else so much. Sure, imagine being infatuated, like when you were first our dating and you get to be with a person who's your spouse, feel that way, love someone else Because there's a emotional and there's a physical connection now that's been established between my wife and another man and so, like she Didn't, she couldn't do anything, in fairness, but you know she behaved for weeks. Yeah, I'll come back. You know what do this right? So for a whole week, basically, she pouted around the house and was like heartbroken because her boyfriend Was theirs and she wanted to be with them. So bad, which is really difficult for me to witness. Not that really changed. Like you know, you can feel a lot of different things. It's what you choose to live by that decides how you walk it out. So I'm still going to work, man, I'm still measuring the gospel? I haven't. I'm still like just having like I'm alive and freedom. I'm out here talking to you about Jesus. I'm out there like they don't know anything. Oh, it's going online. Not that they needed to, it was just like. You know, I'm just doing what I'm doing. Then I kind of come home and you know I just be with that aftermath.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we go that whole week. So Saturday, that Saturday I believe we're there and we kind of it's kind of all over again, man, she's, she leaves, she takes the keys to her car, she takes off her wedding ring and throws. That means is I hate you, I don't want to be with you, I hate you basically. You know, your Key word here is what she said is you're too much like Jesus and I can't stand that.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're gonna take a real quick break and I'm gonna bring on my brother, nicholas. Nicholas, quick question for you, my guy how long have you been rocking With the? The good good, the good, good gospel.
Speaker 3:It has been almost four years now almost for you my life best.
Speaker 1:For what kind of impact would you say you know that the gospel has had on your life.
Speaker 3:I Mean. If I had to quantify, I'd probably say total, total impact on my life. A total impact. You want to add anything to that? Yeah, no, it's. It's changed just the way I'm able to love people. I thought that I loved people before, turns out I didn't. I didn't do it out of love, it was just all lack. And now I'm able to love just freely From abundance. And it changes the game.
Speaker 1:It's a game changer. Let me ask you this you have decided to Give your time, your resources, your finances to keep this Message that you are free from indebted to sin, moving forward into 2024. Why is that important to you?
Speaker 3:Because it's a game changer. I don't think people realize because we think we know, we think we know the gospel, but a lot of times, most of the time in my experience, you don't know it until you know it have you ever heard, ran into someone who's like I know the gospel, and then you're like, so, like Roman six, and they're like, oh yeah, we're free from and dead to sin. Never, never, I haven't never happened to me before, but it would be incredible I would be so stoked. But I think, especially this podcast in my opinion, the power of testimony, of telling your story and your experience that has touched so many people's lives that I've. I just want to further that as much as we can't. That's why we're here. God can do it on his own, but he wants to do it through us and this is the best way that I've found out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he doesn't need us, and yet the work is out there. Yeah, it's a laborers that are for you. So if you want to partner with us Going forward into the future, go to love reality dot or g slash give. That's love reality dot or g slash give and Partner with us like here's the thing we're not gonna stop, we don't want to stop, and Every dollar donated goes forward into getting this, these stories, out there. So, yeah, we would love you to do that and man. Thanks a lot, nicholas. Thank you, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:So that's like a back knee, to compliment, I guess. Yeah, so I just can't stand it. So she left and she went to her work. But her sister found out where she was going. So I show up at her work and Her sister, you, you met Brooke. I mean Mm-hmm, she walks in there, man, brooks pregnant, keep that mind. She walks in there and she starts yelling at the staff right there in the front bring out this, this guy, you know, bring him out here. And so obviously the managers say, no, you have to leave. So, like they make her, escort her out the building. She's still I Still don't know where my wife is at this point. So they, she leaves building. I show up, I talked to the managers, I'm like, hey guys, I'm sorry, as I didn't have, I didn't want necessarily this tap. I know this isn't fair, you guys like you guys, nothing to do with this, this is Dirk's doing. But I said I'm sorry, we'll just leave, like, leave the property. So you know, just try to play. Basically, you know, get everyone to calm down. So they come down. Still know what Brianna is? I told Brianna that you know, either tell us where you are or we're gonna call Verizon and they're gonna tell us where you are so and we're gonna call the police because we don't know when those where you're at and no one was it knows what you're doing and you're kind of acting a little crazy right now, so I'll leave that. So you told us where we are and it was like the fast and furious of Normal modern-day cars. Like there's like six of our cars me, brain, the larger brook Key myself and so she's had like the parking lot, so like we whip our cars like down the road there and like I don't want to say surround her car, but kind of like get around the car and a brick. I'm at her sister gets there before me and I see her Hit her in the stomach and then hit her in the face and I'm gonna be honest for it. That was needed. It was like Brooks the one who did it like so I get in between them, I say stop it, stop it like cut out. So then Bri starts hitting me. They're like she's hitting me so I just whatever, take her down again, gently of course, and so we just kind of hold her there until she's kind of under control. How the police aren't called at this one I really don't know, because we had like a crowd of it was outside of Target. So we have a crowd of people from targets watching this. Go down, man. But there is, it is like five guys, so I mean in fair and like couple girls, but so they're watching. This all happened. So we're like we need to get out of here. Like Brianna, like who you want to go to, and she goes. She said you want to go with Brooke or do you want to go at Raiden? She goes Braden, so Go back. At this point, man, it's just like at this one. So just mentally exhausted, like just With this whole situation, I'm just, I'm just tired. I think it's the best word I can describe it. I'm just tired. So we're there and they we move to a different like we go back home, basically, and whatever Raiden reads, brianna, brianna has always Related to Roman seven. Like I think we all can do in some regard is I do what I don't want to do, but I do it anyways. Like that specific bet she's always felt like that described herself. So whatever Braden like talked her about that and whatnot, and so yeah, I mean. So everyone went home, we went to bed and I went to work next morning. So that was that whole like. I guess we can weak experience.
Speaker 1:You weren't trying to change her at this point, you're just like. No, I'm not going on and I need her to see some truth, or what was the mindset just?
Speaker 2:It's not that we give up, but I could tell that she'd rejected it. She had heard it. She rejected it. She wasn't accepting it. And you can't force someone to accept something either. They just for some reason cannot comprehend. But it takes a softening of the heart by God and Work for someone to even receive it. And her heart was, her heart was so hard that she just was rejecting it, like that's the only way I can describe it. Is you. You know, you recognize when people get to a certain point and it's just, you know you, you have to. Basically, at this point I've tried my own works, everything I can to try and show her the gospel when it into the gospel and at that point rich. The more you try to work to try to get that to happen, the more frustrated you're gonna get. Yeah because it takes an act of God in order to even bring that in. So At that point I was like, well, you know what, like I love her, I'm gonna keep on loving her. I'm not going to change the way to treat her or anything, not how I live. You know, I'm gonna do it right because I'm a righteous man. And I'm like, well, you know, we're just see what, where it goes, I suppose. And so so you know, like I'm obviously praying for, you know, trying to. You know, yeah, like not even trying. I just said that when I was like, well, we'll see where this goes, god like cuz, I Told her I'm not excited, the divorce papers. I was like I'm like, good luck, I'm, I'm just not gonna do it. I I said, if you drag us into court I'm not a lawyer, but I don't know what you're gonna try and say was your term for divorce, I'm not doing anything. Um, so we're doing that and yeah, it goes a bit, it goes for a little bit. And at that point you know she's, she's good, is the way I would describe it. She's good. You know, you can tell when someone that light bulb hits, she the light bulb had never hit, but I knew that she was good not just merely then because of the consequences she suffered. Hmm but regardless, I was just happy at that point that you know we weren't like enough time had passed and things have calmed down and she was kind of living life. Yeah, they would calm down. We're just kind of live in life. So, yeah, I mean things. Live in life, sometimes without making a whole doctrine about this, when you know what, when Christ says you know, a prophet's not welcome in his own home and very few believed him when he came into his hometown. Sometimes I do think it is harder, harder to receive from people that are closest to you, like for sure it is your spouse or your family, because you see them as peers, I think sometimes. But so things are going good, and then we go to that little like love reality thing that Brady and Savannah had down there and we start talking to you. My wife could speak freedom. My wife could speak freedom. I Don't know how much she accepted or didn't accept it within her heart. That's not really for me, a judge, I just don't know. And so whenever she starts talking to you and I see this guy with the backwards hat and I'm like this guy's chief fan, be careful with this guy. And so she's talking to me. Now you remember we had that nice little conversation or whatnot, and she kind of just like airs like it gives you like a portion of our testimony or whatnot. So yeah, and then, for some reason, when she talked to you, that it just she seemed To necessarily receive better from you. I guess is probably the better word I can even.
Speaker 1:Articulate. We'll have to hear how she describes this.
Speaker 2:I have to hear the part of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as you're watching that, as you're as you're seeing what's going on, because we have this conversation. And Friday night, when we got there, I was like because I think Braden called me the week it was going on and he's like man pray for my sister, and I'm like For sure, dude, and I'm like I'm he's given me some of the background of the story, but I don't really comprehend everything that's going on. I'm just like, yeah, and so we were praying. And Then when I get there, I'm like I Hadn't heard from Braden. I didn't know what had happened at all. I was like I don't know if she's still like gone or she's still there, and I didn't even know what she looked like. And so when I'm meeting all these people, I'm like is one of these people, that one of the sisters that Braden's talking about? And Then Friday night I realized, oh, it's this one, she's the one. And so I was looking at her and I don't do very well, when I'm preaching, to make eye contact. People tell me all the time like you need to make more eye contact because I just don't. But I was with her because I'm like my heart was just for her, like I wanted to understand this thing afterwards, wanted to talk to her about it, and I couldn't. But then we have this conversation the next day and that's where I kind of talked to you for the first time. Like Friday night I didn't really talk to you and then Saturday I'm like, oh okay, man, this guy and you just blew me away With your energy and your commitment and you start talking. And I think this is where I want to get to. We'll let Brianna have her own side of the story. When I was talking to you and I'm seeing how you're able to live your life and you've mentioned it so far like you were completely sold out, just completely sold out. Like there's no. Like you burned the ships, there's no going back. And Do you remember how you described it to me? You kind of said it a little bit right now. But how you're like no man, there's no.
Speaker 2:Like this is my life, there is there is simply the one option, like At. The problem I feel like with what sometimes I would speak about, specifically about the subject of sin, is like you know, you go see something you're free from sin. Like what does a someone who's maybe not necessarily Like what's their initial response? But we always said but, but we will. If you take on that mentality for anything there is. But you could know, I Consider the life that I had dead, I'm sold out man. There is no option for me, like when I look at the stair, I, I, I've suffered some, but Christ said a standard so that no one could say, oh, I suffered more than Christ. I could look to Christ and be like that is my example. I mean they, they, these people, he loved his, his chosen people, the Jews, he loved them, he went to them first. They. They mocked and rejected them, killed them. I mean, if you want to, if anyone brings up a case where they've been mistreated, I got a pretty good example that I think we can bring up. Is good as Christ and he said follow me in. So what can I say? We know from church history if I believe, as Peter Was crucified upside down and the reason church history gives for that is, he said, I myself Don't want to, I don't want to be held like I want to be crucified normally, because I'm not worthy of that standard. In that, in that Sense of like, I don't want people to set that standard as me he. So he rejected, and for me to Just have that example that sets so firm man is just like. There's no option. Man like I Don't there is no yes and no, there's only yes, there's only yes, lord, and that just that's. That's a believer, you know like. Yes, god loves you. Yes, these things are true, but do you? Is Christ Lord, do you love him? Look what he brought me from, when you realize that where you were and I mean it's hard for me to think of to go. Well, you know that happened to me. So I guess I shouldn't do this, like you know, or I'm, to justify any other response except for what is Christ?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I think this is where we're gonna wrap up, because I don't want to step on Brianna story but how Is it like there's only one way that it's possible for you to live like this, and that's because you've been really, really loved. This is not your discipline, while maybe you do have discipline. It's not because you're disciplined that you're living like this. It's because you're loved that you're living disciplined, right, good, yeah. So as you, as you look back on all of this and I'll give a little spoiler alert y'all are still married, there's still marrior alert, and and I think the next part of the story is gonna be just as beautiful but as you look back To this kid who was rebellious, could not submit himself to God's law, indeed, he could not. If you could go back to this kid where he's participating in this thing and it's wrecking him from the inside out and he doesn't know how to get out of it, if you could just put your arm around this kid and say a few words to him, if it wasn't Braden talking to me, if it was you talking to him now, what would, what would you tell this kid?
Speaker 2:Um, probably would have a what would I've told him? Question caught me off guard. Um, I would probably just, you know, encourage him that To, to live, to live for Christ, to die his game, to keep that mentality of a, a soldier, like mentality that were instructed to keep, which is that I'm Going to do this. I'm going like to reckon oneself totally dead to sin, not Partially dead to sin, make kind of dead to sin, but I might sin, dead to sin, alive to Christ, because you've been baptized into Christ's death with the body of sin and that's been put to death and you've been raised to life.
Speaker 1:And to push me towards that direction, Well, I know this is kind of like a little bit of a cliffhanger, as we in this episode, but, like I said, man, your life lived even has a Cincinnati Bengals fan, I won't talk about it like your life lived has been such a blessing and a testimony to me to see how you've lived and I think in the in the Next episode or two where we hear Brianna's story, I Think it'll come full circle. But thank you For your faithfulness to his faithfulness, man, because it truly is a testimony and a blessing to so many people and Hearing the story is just affirmation that you've been really, really loved and you're moving from that love. So thank you, my, my friend. I'm good man. I know we kind of left off on a cliffhanger here, but I think this when you hear Brianna story is going to be so beautiful. But listen, if you're in a place when Josh was, where you're participating in sin and you know it's wrong and yet you can't get out of it, this prayers for you, father and him, and thank you that you have made me this thing. You present me holy, blameless and above approach to the father. If, father, my life hasn't been reflecting that, but thank you that you've freed me from sin and you have put this in my heart To hide your law in my heart that I can walk according to it. And so, father, thank you, I believe it, I receive it and I'm going to focus on how clean I am and I'm gonna put to death that old thing Like Sincerity, that old thing like since I am dead to sin. I'm gonna put away its actions and walk in the light, as you are in the light. Thank you for this, in Jesus's name, amen. Yeah, I want to make sure to invite you to be a part of Our gospel community online, the Facebook group, as I think a love reality Gospel community. Check that out. So much encourage on their encouragement on there all the time. Love y'all appreciate y'all will catch y'all on the next one.