In this episode, we delve into Bree's profound spiritual transformation, uncovering the struggles and victories of moving beyond a "fake Christian" identity. Her journey through marital challenges, battles with infidelity and pornography, and the search for genuine love and purity showcases the powerful impact of faith and forgiveness. Bree's path from guilt to healing highlights the complexities of relationships and the transformative power of faith. We also explore the family dynamics and secrets that test and ultimately foster spiritual growth. Join us as we share these raw, intimate stories, celebrating authenticity and renewal in Christ.
0:00 - Transformation Through the Gospel
18:57 - The Consequences of Infidelity and Guilt
27:06 - Porn's Effect on Relationships
38:44 - Marriage Expectations and Reality
53:29 - Deception and Distance in a Relationship
1:02:02 - Family Confrontation Reveals Infidelity
1:21:33 - Dramatic Intervention, Shift in Perspective
1:40:32 - The Power of Sharing Personal Stories
1:53:41 - Embracing a New Identity in Christ
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
In this episode, we delve into Bree's profound spiritual transformation, uncovering the struggles and victories of moving beyond a "fake Christian" identity. Her journey through marital challenges, battles with infidelity and pornography, and the search for genuine love and purity showcases the powerful impact of faith and forgiveness. Bree's path from guilt to healing highlights the complexities of relationships and the transformative power of faith. We also explore the family dynamics and secrets that test and ultimately foster spiritual growth. Join us as we share these raw, intimate stories, celebrating authenticity and renewal in Christ.
0:00 - Transformation Through the Gospel
18:57 - The Consequences of Infidelity and Guilt
27:06 - Porn's Effect on Relationships
38:44 - Marriage Expectations and Reality
53:29 - Deception and Distance in a Relationship
1:02:02 - Family Confrontation Reveals Infidelity
1:21:33 - Dramatic Intervention, Shift in Perspective
1:40:32 - The Power of Sharing Personal Stories
1:53:41 - Embracing a New Identity in Christ
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
Speaker 2:So I was allowed to have Snapchat at 13, sending pictures of myself that nobody needs to see other than my husband, and that was something that I was doing at like 12 and 13 years old.
Speaker 1:Yo, this is the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with my sister, bree. And if you heard Josh's episode last week, this is a follow up to that Wild, wild stuff going on in Ohio and in the gospel. This story is not for young years. There is some stuff in it revolving around sexual morality and the like. But also, if you don't like the gospel, stop now. Like, just stop. Go do something else with your time. If you don't like radically transformed lives, then this is not for you, but it is for me. I love it. This is Bree. Let's jump into it. Love y'all, appreciate y'all, bugle up, strap in. Well, let's start there with you. Like, as you think about your story, as you think about the Bree story and how it relates to God, where do you think it starts?
Speaker 2:Well, I was a pastor's kid and no hate there or anything.
Speaker 1:Love them, love the PKs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I was. I say I was always a fake Christian. So, like I was a pastor's kid, I was on the worship team, I was doing all the right things on the outside, but on the inside I was like so disgusting, I was selfish, I was hateful, I was fake.
Speaker 1:And I, just when do you think that that fakeness started? Because, as a little sweet, little sweet Bree wasn't up here being, you know, maybe kid selfishness, because kids are self-centered, but when do you feel like something changed and you were like I'm not sure what I Like talk to me about that.
Speaker 2:I never had a relationship with God, like ever growing up. So there was, I just knew of him. Like I knew of him, I saw him as a father figure for everybody else and I never knew him that way. So I was like, oh yeah, like you know, you can always, I always thought, like you go to church on Sunday, you do your thing, you feel the presence of God, and you go home and you try your best for the rest of the week to try and make it to Sunday and do it all over again, and so, like my whole thing was, I never had a relationship. I just kept trying and trying and obviously by my own works of trying, you're going to fail every time. So I, you know my life looked so different than what was on the inside because I was like so young, growing up, like obviously, but like I was so young and like I never knew him, but it was always there, like the relationship was never there.
Speaker 1:Was Christian girl. Was it a part of your identity, like where you went to school and where you was being a Christian a popular thing, was it an unpopular thing? Did you consider yourself a part of that? Were Christian like? Tell me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I definitely did, Like Christian was always a part of my life, but I didn't even know what it meant to be a Christian. I didn't know what it meant to have a relationship with God. I didn't know what it meant to be holy and righteous and share through him.
Speaker 1:I just was so gross, you're like I didn't know what it meant to be pure, I was just gross.
Speaker 2:I was just so gross.
Speaker 1:Like. Are you talking about like?
Speaker 2:I wanted like no, I was just gross and like there was nothing in me that was good, because I was just holding onto my flesh so hard, like I knew all of these things about God and was in like children's ministry even, and like telling these young kids like you know, like God is there for you and like you know, not even believing it myself, and you know all these things and I it was always a part of my life, but I just never had that relationship and it was just so like I never read my Bible. I kid, I never read my Bible. But I know all 66 books and I can tell them to you in order, and I can tell you what is the Old Testament and I can tell you what's the New Testament, tell you what the Gospels are, but I never read it all the way through and I didn't know anything other than John 316 and Jesus wept.
Speaker 1:So it sounds a little bit like like religious, All these things yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:That's what it was for my life and that's all I knew.
Speaker 1:And what was your main influence If it wasn't Christianity? What were the things that were influencing you to be a certain way Like, let's say, when you get to high school you're a pastor's kid grown up by the time you get into high school, like were you living in ways you didn't like before that. Or when high school comes around it like you get a little older and kind of stuff starts to start to rebellion.
Speaker 2:I think I was rebellious by the time I was 12 years old. So before high school, I was always seeking attention from boys and meeting that affirmation that I was pretty, that I was beautiful, that I was wanted and that you know, whatever it was, I wanted it from them. And I think that started when I was about 12 years old, because I remember I was like a Snapchat at 13. And Snapchat kind of earned everything too.
Speaker 1:Man, when I came out I was like this is gonna destroy lives, like even the whole premise of it is like, if you take it, that it's gone. I'm like no way, Like this is gonna be terrible. And then I was a dean at a school, like a boarding academy, and I saw first and I'm like, oh man, they're not ready for this. Even adults aren't ready for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was bad, yeah. So I was allowed to have Snapchat at 13, sending pictures of myself that nobody needs to see other than my husband, and that was something that I was doing at like 12 and 13 years old, and this idea of God and sorry for cutting you off.
Speaker 1:Now you're good, you've grown up with God. Now you don't really know him. You know about him, but the more powerful feeling is the feeling to be seen, the feeling to be known, the feeling to be known as beautiful, when you're sending these pictures to whoever. Was there like God at all? A part of this? Was there guilt, or was it just like this? It was like compartmentalized, like God's over here and what I do on Sunday and this is what I'm doing Friday night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was like that. And I remember, though, like times where I feel guilty, where I would you know, I'd be praying or something on Sunday morning on the way to church, because I felt like I had to get off my conscience before we were there and I'd like be praying like God. I'm so sorry, I get that, I'm just so horrible and I'll never do it again and please just forgive me. And I remember those prayers and I just remember doing it again. So there was no, there was no what's the word? There was no change in me.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like you really didn't want to do those things, or do you feel like you really did?
Speaker 2:I definitely wanted to, because I feel like if I hadn't have wanted to, I probably wouldn't have done it. I don't know.
Speaker 1:But I, that's a weird.
Speaker 2:that's a weird one, right, Because you're feeling guilty, yeah because you're feeling guilty in the moment and then, like the next moment, I'm like, well, I can give into it this time too, like whatever, that's kind of my mindset was I. My mindset was always whatever. Like I just always had a really bad attitude. I remember always just being like a not necessarily a bad child, but like I, I was very talkback-ish. I was never. When I like, if you probably were to ask my mom or dad, like out of all of our siblings, who would talk back, it would probably be me. Like I was never afraid of, like you know, saying what I felt like I needed to say in the moment, and that always got me into trouble Because I, you know, I had a bad attitude and I, but I had a bad outlook on life too, because I all I saw was myself and like how bad I was. And then I felt bad for myself. So I felt myself pity which was something that, like, was very familiar for me at a very young age and just always feeling bad for myself. So I feel like that's why it kind of snowballed into well, I'm already down here, like might as well do whatever and whatever was my favorite excuse. Like whatever, what's going. Well, it's going to happen. It's going to happen Because I'm a sinner.
Speaker 1:How did God feel about you in your mind?
Speaker 2:God was an amybite.
Speaker 1:Like that. You don't. Even you weren't considering what he thought about you.
Speaker 2:No, never. I was never like. I wonder what he was like, as never, because I didn't care, I didn't. There was nothing on my mind that changed Because I was so selfish. I just wanted what I wanted, and what I wanted was more important than anything else.
Speaker 1:And you wanted to be seen as did you, okay. Did you want to be seen as beautiful or did you want to be loved by someone? In your mind, what did you think was more important?
Speaker 2:Probably I would say loved, Because that's what I definitely wanted and I wanted to be loved 100% and I didn't know that I could find love through him and in him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so early on you're doing this stuff on Snapchat. When you get to high school, you were like boy. Would you say you were boy crazy, or you just after one specific like what? How would you describe first couple of years of high school in regards to like what you were going after?
Speaker 2:I would say, boy crazy? Yeah, I would. I wasn't necessarily. I stopped doing the picture thing-ish with, like when I, by the time I was probably 14, so it's like what a year and a half. And then there was a boy in my life who was my friend, and then that got cut off. And then there was another boy in my life who just used me pretty much and vice versa, I just used him too. And then there was Josh in my life, and Josh is my husband. He was a very kind person.
Speaker 1:So when he came around, were you interested in long term type of things or were you still on the? I'm going to use you. We're here for a good time, not a long time type of deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, both. I would say both because I knew I was going to marry him. But because I knew I was going to marry him, I was like, let's do it, I don't know, Like just early on you're like this.
Speaker 1:He's the man I don't know I don't know. He's a good looking guy.
Speaker 2:I don't know Something about him. It was weird, something about him. I mean I remember going, we were hanging out one night and he left my house. I just remember going on the couch and sitting next to my mom and crying to him and being like that's my house there, and she was like, oh honey, I'm like 16 years old, I'm like that's my house.
Speaker 1:So I'm forgetting. You were homeschooled as well, so you and him met up through this homeschool thing, so I'm like thinking you're seeing him in the hallways at school.
Speaker 2:No, not even. We weren't even in the same homeschool group. Okay. Like there are different homeschool groups and I was a part of the nerdy one and he was a part of the less bougie homeschool group.
Speaker 1:So he was slumming it with his homeschool, okay.
Speaker 2:He. We were in completely different things so we didn't even know each other. Through homeschool. We knew each other because I had a thing with one of his guys, one of his guy friends.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I remember. Like that was my friend.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, when it didn't work out for him and I, josh and I were like, oh hey, how are you? Yeah. That kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So that's how it seems like in a typical relationship there's like this back and forth or like who decides how far things are going to go physically, and it's usually led by the person who has gone the furthest before. It just seems like that's kind of how it works and it's like, yeah, if you know, if you're like, god is a part of your life somehow there's this trying to put on breaks, but then there's also, like, if you're alone, those breaks kind of end up being a figment of your imagination. Describe like trying to navigate that world while calling it like. I think Josh was. You know Christian, you're a Christian, but you're like who cares? Like who? Like if you went a certain distance and one of you was like no, we shouldn't go this far, or was it even like that? Was it just like no, even discussion, like we're just we'll see what happens and if we go too far, then perhaps we'll talk about and say maybe we don't want to live like this, or like both of us are feeling guilty. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the whole thing even started for Josh and I even taking things too far Um was because I had taken things too far with the guy who had used me and I had used him. Right. So with that guy, um, you know, we we didn't have sex, but we took things too far, sure, in other ways and, um, I had that on my conscience so. But I was with Josh and so I was like Josh, like I need to tell you something. And I told him and he was obviously very hurt and he was kind of in a mindset where it's like, well, you know, when you did it with him, can you do it with me.
Speaker 1:Did he like voice this, or was it just like you felt that?
Speaker 2:for it it was. It was yeah, and I was like I was kind of like a that kind of thing, like I felt it, and I don't remember if he exactly said it, but maybe he said it after and was like expressing it to me Sure, um, but uh, so that was kind of the vibe I was getting. It was like you know, oh, he wasn't like like he kind of I think he wants me to do with him too. So, um, we did What'd you look at that and that causes so much.
Speaker 1:I mean that chemistry, that chemical, that rush that causes, just like a bond that should only be there when you're married, right?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Would you say that that made the relationship better, or did it just completely take over the relationship?
Speaker 2:Uh, it completely took over the relationship. It was, um, all I could think about honestly, and probably vice versa, like if I had to speak on behalf of him, it was probably all he could think about too, and I'm not sure if, but he was thinking about it the way I was thinking about it. He was probably thinking about it in a guilty way, and I was probably thinking about it like this is my life. I'm a sinner, this is what it's going to be like. I'm never going to dig myself out of this hole that I put myself in. So that was kind of like was that a?
Speaker 1:good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Um, kind of made me feel better about it because it was like, well, this is what people do, you know, and I've seen it work out for other people, I saw it work out for my parents, I saw it work out for who else's parents, and you know they're unhappy. They're in a great marriage, they have 30 years, they have all these things, and you know why can't I have that too and still have like the earthly, worldly pleasures? And it wasn't enough for Josh and I in the beginning. We didn't take things too far in the beginning, but it obviously escalated and we started having sex when we were dating and that made everything just so much worse than I only saw him as someone who would like give me that pleasure or feeling, and then that feeling was love, is what I was perceiving. So, um, you know and that's a horrible outlook on, because that's not what it is and um, but it was what I saw and it was what was given to me and it was all I have ever known with all sorts of guys before Josh, and, like you know, that, that feeling of I, I see you, I want you, you're beautiful, that was what I felt was love, and I only found it from boys or guys and whatnot, and so um yeah, Does?
Speaker 1:does feeling guilty? Does feeling that? Is that the worst feeling in the world to you?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was.
Speaker 1:Cause, like I'm imagining that because and you tell me if I'm wrong because you hate the feeling of feeling guilty so much, where some people will go deep into the guilt, like you're talking about Josh, so like that's something that I would do, like beat ourselves up, go deep into the guilt because you hate that feeling so much. You went the opposite way and you're like yeah like. I don't want to feel that at all, so this is how I'll work it out in my mind, so I don't have to yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I could enable myself to do it even more. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 100% I. I didn't like it at all. I didn't like feeling guilty. I always have to defend myself. That was something you know. If somebody's accusing me of something, defend, defend, defend. You know that kind of thing where it's like the wall. So I did not like it at all and so I just pushed it away. I pushed it so far down and, um, that caused a lot of problems and you know cause. Now I'm looking at other people and it just everything was bad. Everything was bad. That was all mess.
Speaker 1:So what was the plan to get out of this mess for you? Get get married. That's the plan That'll fix everything.
Speaker 2:You can.
Speaker 1:I saw this, this cartoon, the other day, or this comic strip, and I thought it was hilarious. And it was this, this couple, and they're dancing on their wedding day, and they said it says well, I guess we've solved all of our relationship problems now, like the marriage, the wedding, getting married is this thing that's supposed to solve these other problems. Um, gosh when I lie, because let me tell you uh, by this time did you know about Josh and and like his porn stuff?
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, yeah, she, um, she. I didn't know it to the extent that I think she had told me so she, um. I remember one night this is crazy we had just gotten done doing whatever we were doing and it he like comes and talks to me sweetheart, I'm, I'm watching porn and I slapped him Like what I deserve to be slapped. What did we just get done doing?
Speaker 1:Well, because it was a defense against you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Not like God or like I felt all high and mighty, yeah, and I felt all high and mighty Like what? Yeah, um, and then like it hurt Obviously. I slapped him Uh, but I don't think it bothered me in like uh, like a way that you would think, because I was like, well, you know, keys is center too. So I was like, so of course he's going to do that. Porn was never a problem for me. No, I've never. I can clear, cautiously say I can never, ever been intrigued. It was only everything else. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for you no porn.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you can look down at him a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally that's, I think I did. I almost did. Yeah, I almost did, because I was like I don't do that and I would you do that. You're like you know they're girls. I'm supposed to be like go for a girl for you, and you know all these things, and like, do you want those other girls or do you want me? Or like like what do you want? And here I was like, well, obviously I want you and I'm like, okay, well then, treat me like it. Like, treat me like you want me, that kind of thing. I don't know, I was on that Do better bro yeah, do better, don't look at that. And then come to find out that I did not know this until probably we were married, because I would probably brought it up and I was like, oh, like, how that'll go. He was like, oh yeah, that same night I went home and watched it.
Speaker 1:Oh, mercy, because that's the thing Like if, if you're addicted to porn, yeah, having sex actually fuels that addiction a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I didn't stop and I was like that's creepy. I was like I didn't think that was gonna, that you were gonna say that.
Speaker 1:And this is why that I hate to burst somebody's bubble here, but I'm gonna burst somebody's bubble. Yeah, if you think the reason you're looking at porn is because your spouse won't have sex with you, no, like you've gotten into addictive pattern, and unless you receive some truth and you're able to just walk away from that, then sexual activity will fuel that mindset even more. And so that's why getting married is not the answer to sexual immorality. Getting married is not the answer to porn addiction. Getting married is not the answer to fighting in your relationship. They will probably just put a magnifying glass on those things.
Speaker 2:Oh, at 100% then.
Speaker 1:But before, before we get to getting married, we'll get there. Yeah, I know a little bit of the story. Your brother and your sister-in-law start getting pumped up on the gospel. Talk to me about when when that was going on, Because I think we, we, we did. I did the interview with Josh last week, kind of heard what happened to him. How did you experience that? Talk to me about that.
Speaker 2:So my brother, braden, and my sister-in-law, savannah they were receiving truth and finding truth, and hearing the gospel from Dan Moller, I believe, is the person they were hearing it from. They were like watching his YouTube videos and all that stuff, and I believe this was around 2019. Maybe I'm nope. That's so wrong. That's so wrong. That was probably 2021. Maybe 2020. Somewhere around there, and they were having Bible studies at their house and then, and I was going to them, and then Braden had received this truth and what he did was he created an analogy called the cups. I don't know if you've heard of them.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've heard it, I love it.
Speaker 2:So he has two cups one's dirty, one clean, the whole ordeal and he presents Josh with the cups analogy and gives him the whole spiel. And Josh was changed and obviously it kind of sat with him for a little bit but he was changed and the cups presentation were given to us separately. So it wasn't like in a group setting and Braden was talking, it was. We went outside on his back porch and we're out there talking like breathing outside, but he has to get it out, he has to let us know. So we're sitting out there and now it's my turn to get them and he's explaining everything to me, but he's using bigger words that I've never heard of, like righteous and holy and pure. And yeah, he was using these words and I was like Okay, like that can work for you, but it's not gonna work for me.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, you can make me do that for yourself.
Speaker 2:No, no, I was so comfortable in what I had created in my own heart, which was pushing away the guilt, so I never felt it. It was the shame, almost like I can't talk about it. I can't tell Braden about what's going on in Josh and I's relationship, that we're sleeping together, that there are these things happening in our lives and I can't tell him because I'm ashamed and it was something that I didn't want to let go because it was so familiar and I didn't know what my life was going to look like if I were to let go. So I had that. Then I had that like well, what's going to happen if I do send you know, like those kind of questions and so? So I didn't want to let go of it. And that brought a lot of destruction to Josh and I's relationship.
Speaker 1:And yet we still got married, but what was the destruction? How did that work?
Speaker 2:Well, the destruction was that, you know, we had been sleeping together. We got the cups. He understood the cups, I did not. And so because of that, he no longer wanted to have sex, he no longer wanted to make out with me. So these things were taken away, because he knew that they weren't supposed to be there and because of that, and because I've only ever known that as love, I felt unloved then by Josh, and so then I really didn't want anything to do with God because I was like what the heck? Come on, what's going on? Like why doesn't he want me? But it didn't matter. I still stayed with him because I was like we're going to get married, we've already had sex, I'm supposed to stay with Josh, I'm supposed to stay with him. We've already done it. So he is my husband. So it didn't matter whatever. So he understood it, I didn't. Our relationship went on no making out, no more sex. I literally thought he didn't love me. I remember asking him on the couch, like, do you even love me? And he was like, actually, I'm so much more in love with you than I have ever been. And I'm like well, how can you say that when you don't do these things for me. So like that's so manipulative, that's so wild, I'm like I can't believe I've said those things to him. But you know, that was my life and that's what it looked like and so, and that's what I was used to and familiar to. So it was what I needed in a way. And when I wasn't there, I felt very upset with myself then because I was like, well, what was the point of us even having sex in the first place If now we're not even going to do it? You know, like what was the point? So then I was feeling shameful and a little bit of guilt. I was starting to feel the guilt.
Speaker 1:And if you stop doing something, that means that you shouldn't have been doing it in the first place. And if you shouldn't have been doing it in the first place, then that allows for all the guilt to set in, and that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so comfortable. Yeah, it was, yeah, and it wasn't even all the guilt that I truly felt, and it was just a little bit, and I was like, wow, I'm really so disgusting. That's what I felt, but it didn't matter. Josh proposed to me and I said yes, and we got married three months later. So we keep proposed on March 5th 2022. And we got married June 3rd 2022. That was 95 years ago.
Speaker 1:How did you guys spend a wedding in like three months. Like that's wild. I guess it's like pandemic. And like was it easier during the pandemic?
Speaker 2:No, because all venues were like gone. Venues were gone, but actually, you know, god wears him the stairs. But yeah, so you know, actually I had a dream, because I know this amazing woman and she actually opened a wedding venue. And well, she opened it where I knew she had it, I knew she had one coming and I had a dream about her and that she was upset with me because I didn't ask her to use her venue. So you know, the next day I'm telling my mom this and she's, like I'm calling her right now, like oh, don't even worry, sweetheart, like I'm going to get it taken care of. And I was like, okay, whatever. I was like see, if enough, she had the date available. You know, because this is a beautiful venue, they're just opening up for the summer. All of their dates are probably gone. No, she had June 3rd available. So then, like you know, we walked the venue. It was perfect. I was like, yeah, this is a little odd. Yeah, so that's how that worked out. And that was done within like two weeks. So that's crazy, but I mean, it was a pretty simple wedding.
Speaker 1:How does like going from one day you're not married to the next day you're married? Did you think it was going to be something in your mind Like what was your expectations and what was reality?
Speaker 2:I was ready for no feeling of shame. I was like that's what's going to happen, like I'm not going to feel shameful anymore for like what we've done because we're married now. So it's like it's all okay, you know, because we got married in the end. Yeah, that's the truth.
Speaker 1:Like once you get married if you've experienced any kind of sexual immorality. It's not immorality anymore. It was totally cool. It actually just happened.
Speaker 2:It actually just all goes away like the night of your wedding. You know what Say I do?
Speaker 1:In some ways, as I think about this, in some ways in Christ that is true. But if we do not know that and we're walking into, like in reality, once you become man and wife, whatever was before it should be gone. But we don't think like that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I wasn't, but Josh was, josh was I'll give him that. He was absolutely. He was free. He understood the gospel so well and I love him so much because he always wanted to talk to me about it, even when we were dating. Like he wanted to talk to me about it and I was always the one to like shut it down, like don't talk to me, like what was the fear of you understanding it? What was?
Speaker 1:it going to take from you.
Speaker 2:Fear of just guilt and shame. But like I don't know, because it was so familiar to me, I didn't know what my life was going to look like without it. So the guilt and shame and the self pity and the enablement of wanting to do what I want to do, and the selfishness, like I didn't want to let it go because I was so familiar to it and so I just didn't know what my life was going to look like and because of that I just held on to it. But I had definitely seen a difference in Josh and I was like, yeah, good for him. But like you know, I'm still the same. I'm still the same.
Speaker 1:So how did it go? How was marriage then?
Speaker 2:Well, so we Josh had understood the gospel Probably. I want to say like seven months before we were married and while we were dating it was a little bit easier to like push aside when he wanted to talk to me about it and stuff like that, and even though I had seen like differences in his life, like they were still like able, I was still able to like kind of push aside, almost because we're dating. You know, like he goes home to his home, sleeps in his bed and you know I'd stay at my house and I sleep in my bed or separate like we're like spending like six maybe seven hours together. Difference in marriage was we were together 24, seven, sleeping in the same bed, all the same things. What's mine, what's yours, what's yours is mine. You know everything like that. And yeah, so she understood the gospel so well. And because of this I felt so bad for myself and I was like, hmm, why can't I have it? Now? I kind of like kind of want it in a way like like what, why can't I have that? Like, why can't? We would be in fights or something, and he would like just forgive me in a second or something like because, like I don't know, maybe I lied or something, or I was always lying, I lied about something or I had a bad attitude about something you know like, and he would just move on and you know, just tell me like, oh, I love you, sweetheart, like it's okay, like you know it's gonna be okay. Fine, I'm like, why are you so okay with this? Like, why? Why are you not like upset with me? Why are you not doing Doing? Why are you not what's the word upset with me? The way I need to be, treat like dessert, like I need to be, I deserve to be Like mad at almost. And he wasn't ever. And because of that, and I was like like I'm just the worst person in the world like he can forgive me, but I hold on to grudges from people who who've done me wrong, like 10 years ago. Yet I look at him and he freaks me in your instant. Like I just felt really bad about myself and it was horrible. I was very hateful and I was very faint Around this time as well, like, um, my parents were still, they were still pastoring and I would still attend, but like my life looked so different In my life, I mean, like my inside, my heart, looks so different than what I was saying to be true, and so I, just then I had that like guilt of like, oh, like I can't believe I tell these people like God loves you and I just don't believe I've hurt myself. And so, um, yeah, I felt I fell into a lot of self pity and that kind of snowballed Once again and about doing going to it. Sure Okay. So uh what is it? We got married in June. In around the end of December I because I was I was feeling so bad for myself, for me because I just had all this guilt and shame pile that fell on the inside. I had an affair with a man and um, after that I won't add me just everything was. Everything was horrible.
Speaker 1:Everything affairs. This don't come out in nowhere, right? Yeah, not like one day there's one? Yeah, it's a, it's built up was. Was there resentment being built up for Josh because of Of this thing?
Speaker 2:I think so, yeah, there, there was resentment in my heart against everyone. And so and especially Josh, because you know, like he's one who's closest to me and, um, you know, it's actually crazy. So last night, literally last night, I had a realization, because my brother and my sister in law are doing a little file study group and we're getting together on Tuesdays and, um, they were talking about confessing your sins and, you know, having a clean, clear conscience, all that. And I, you know, I was driving home last night and I was like, you know, just thanking God for everything. I was like, you know, just kind of reflecting back on everything that my brother had spoke about and I was like, huh, what he said was really cool. Um, you know, and I've heard it before, like three times before, but like I don't know why, I was just thinking about last night and he, it was like, well, you know, like when we're confessing our sins to one another, we don't share or partake in the other person's sins. You know, like, when they're confessing, you don't go. Well, you know they're okay to do it, so maybe I can go do it too, yeah, that kind of thing, like don't partake in it. And um, I was looking back and I was like how, how would it have ever done that, like unknowingly, and it hit me. But I have. So, uh, november 2022, savannah had a uh girls trip and I believe your wife was there.
Speaker 1:I don't think she was.
Speaker 2:Was she not? She wanted to go, but she was it was a bunch of reality, girls, and you know I'm living in my own self pity still, and you know, and all that shame and guilt was piled up in there. Um, but, uh, you know, Jaila shared her testimony. Oh, Eddie. Oh, wow. I heart took in Eddie's sin. I was hearing it and I was like, huh, well, I see it worked out for them. Oh, mercy, they're still together. They're still together. And that happened in November, and by the end of December I was having an affair with another man.
Speaker 1:Would you say. And so yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because that is the thing. It's wild. We've learned that because people hear like a friend of mine had said oh, I still look at porn while he was free.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like freedom from sin is freedom from sin. And these testimonies are not to say, yeah, you can mess around with sin and you can end up like me, like nobody gets to sin and get away with it, as we're about to hear in your story. Like no, like it's not just because you're walking in freedom now. We could have had a podcast and it still could be an amazing story. Yeah, but we don't need to experience so much heartache and pain. You don't have to go through any of that. And yeah, and we would say, please don't. Yeah, just because somebody has gotten, like, receive this thing through something terrible, don't think that that has to be your experience. Like they don't have to go through, don't partake in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't partake in it. And I just had that realization last night, and that's. It's only God that I realized that last night, the day before we record this podcast.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. I was driving home I was like oh my gosh Were you were you like I love Josh, like I still love Josh, or were you like thinking I want to end my marriage with Josh, yeah? Like at the beginning, like when, you make the first decision to be like, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to participate in sexual immorality here. Were you like I love Josh. Or were you like I'm done with this marriage, like a few months into it?
Speaker 2:It was never. You know what I want to say, that I still love Josh, but by my actions I clearly didn't. I don't know that I was necessarily thinking about Josh. Hmm. I wasn't. I was thinking about myself. I didn't care, I was, my attitude was whatever. So I didn't care about him or anyone but myself and what I wanted and what I wanted was more important to me than anything else, and I did what I wanted and I. That just led to such a snowball of sin and resentment towards myself, and it definitely piled up, because I remember there were nights where you know I would, I would be in this man's bed and I would be sobbing because I'm like holding on to everything and I'm like I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't cheap doing this, and yet I still did.
Speaker 1:How soon would you say you wanted that?
Speaker 2:I don't think it hit me yet. I don't know. I think I probably would have wanted. I don't know, I had a lot. It didn't hit me yet because I didn't end things break into it.
Speaker 1:While you were participating in this whole thing, you didn't know how damaging it was to you. While you were still sobbing and and saying like, yeah, I can't do this. I imagine like there's just turmoil going on in your body.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I was probably the skinniest I've ever been because I wasn't eating. I was like there were just things that like just were not Like. Everything was a distraction as well. Like I didn't want to be home with Josh. I was never home with Josh for two and a half months. I was not home with him. I was anywhere but home. I was at work, working 17-hour shifts, I was at the gym, I was at a friend's house his house. I was anywhere but home. And then, when I would be home, josh obviously wanted to hang out with me and, like, be with me, and I, because I knew what I was doing, did not want to be with him. So when I was home, it was not for very long and it was not for hey, babe, how are you doing today? Oh, I love you so much. There was none of that. There was none of that. I was very much closed off and his patience through all of it is admirable, because I don't know how he did it Only. Well, I do know how he did it, but in the moment I did not know how he was doing it. Yeah, I was never home and that caused some ripple effects as well. To is how my brother Braden found out about everything.
Speaker 1:So so you were, were you like angry at him, like short with him because of what was going on and like isn't that kind of weird? Because of because of the violated conscience, we treat other people like we believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, it gets weird, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It's crazy, yeah. And then there would be times where I would be telling the truth, where, like, I was at the gym with my actual friend and she would be like where are you? And I'd be like sending him pictures of like me actually at the gym and and then she would get at me and I'd be like what is wrong with you?
Speaker 1:And you might have believed it a little bit too right, Like how dare he not think while oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember even like ran to my friends and being like, oh my gosh, can you believe he's texting me like this right now? Wild.
Speaker 1:Did anybody know what was going on, except for you and this other person?
Speaker 2:No, no one knew. No one knew and I think that also had a taken a toll on me because no one knew. So I didn't have anybody telling me don't? And I had nobody telling me like I mean, I would hope I would never have anybody telling me like it's okay, but like you know, I never had anybody talking to talk about it with, literally, other than the man, and he was no help either.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm not sure he would have much to say. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, how long did this go on and what was it like? You've been describing what it was doing to you. Um you what?
Speaker 2:it went on from Like end of January or no, not in the January, the end of December, to March 2nd. Yeah, march 2nd. My birthday is March 3rd, so the day before my 19th birthday.
Speaker 1:So yeah, how did this all come to a head?
Speaker 2:So you know, I'm obviously not home with Josh at all and I, you know, my brother Braden, is Very good friends with Josh, like they are actually. I think they're very close. They talk every day About the gospel, about anything, they call each other, they, they just love each other and I love that so much. I did not like it in this moment Because of what happened, but you know, I mean they're talking and whatnot and I don't know. I think, from what I can remember, is that like, I think I'm not sure what I'm talking about. From what I can remember, is that like maybe Braden had been like oh, like Where's Bri at, kind of thing, and Josh was like oh, she's always at her friend's house. And like Braden was kind of like what? But that's weird, like what are you gonna do about that kind of like? You know, tell her not to go over your, tell her not to go over her friend's house? And then Josh is like no, I mean like that's whatever. I guess it's just, it's just been like too long, except this has been called on. And then Braden is like what? And then Braden, I think also from what I can remember, is like he started praying for me and One night he called me out of the blue. It was like 11 o'clock at night or like, yeah, it was definitely like 11 o'clock at night and I get a call from Braden. But I'm in this man's bed and I freak out because if anybody we're going to know about what's going on, it would be Braden, because I know how strong he is in his fate. I've seen it and I'm freaking out. I don't think I answered the call. Yeah, I definitely didn't. I didn't answer the call, but my location was on and Braden had taken a screenshot of where my location was and I remember I had went back home because I was freaking out, because I was like, oh my gosh, why are you calling me? It went on and. I remember I went home because I had to get out of here. I went home and I like got mad at Josh and was like why are you telling Braden to call me? And he was like I'm not telling Braden to call you. I was asleep. He was like he must have been calling you on his own, whatever. And I was like it's 11 o'clock at night. Why would Braden be calling me at 11 o'clock at night? And getting mad at him like what are you saying to him? Why are you talking to him like that? I remember just getting mad at him and then just like Josh being like, whatever, it's fine, I don't know. Like there was a whole argument. I don't remember what happened, but then we went to sleep and then A little background my mom is a realtor, so this came into play, like Braden taking a screenshot of my location and my mom looked up the address of the house and like found like the record, I guess, of like who owns it. The name was not matching up with the name that I was given to Josh, right? So Braden shows up as you know older brothers do Shows up to the guy's house and is like you know, this guy and, like you know, can't find them, what not, I don't know. Anyways, so I'm with my sister and my mom and I'm thinking we're just going and hanging out. You know, it's the day before my birthday, my mom's taking me out and really it was a setup Brooke, my sister, and my mom, and Braden, my brother, they kind of like ambushed me but like did it in a good way. Well, actually my mom had no idea about any of this going on, but like Brooke and my brother, braden, ambushed me and was like Like you know, just say it, just say it, just say it. Like what's going on, just say it. And Brayne was like no like she needs to say we can't get anywhere past this if she doesn't say it.
Speaker 1:Was he pretty intense at this time. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm getting nervous right now I'm just listening like, oh my gosh, yeah, I mean, yeah, I was scared, I was very much scared, I was shaking so hard.
Speaker 1:Were you just denying, or oh yeah?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, denying. I was like what, what's going on? What? But like trying to say calm In order to present that like nothing's going on. What are you talking about? And Then they say the guy's name and my whole world has flipped upside down and I'm I completely shut down. I was just Like tears were falling but like my eyes were not blinking, like I was completely shut down. I remember I like literally felt like, and like I was like frozen. And Brayden was just like you just need to say it. And my mom had no idea what's going on. So she was like what, like Bray, like what's going on? And she asked me that and I looked her straight in the eyes and I said I'm having an affair with Josh, like, well, I'm having an affair on Josh. And I said it and Brayden goes there, we go, I can get past it. I said it and my mom is shook, like she shook now to the core. Um, my sister already knew. So she's like Like, why would she do that? She's Clearly upset. And my brother Brayden, um, and my brother Brayden was very calm and he, he was like alright, well, now we just got to go over to Josh's house and we need to say it to him. So then we drive all the way back to my house and we get there.
Speaker 1:Are you?
Speaker 2:just like.
Speaker 1:My brother Like what was your game plan at this time? Are you just like Shock?
Speaker 2:I was Shocked About how it came About Some of these things like Was there any relief, or was there still just anger? There was only anger, not anger towards Anyone but myself. I wasn't mad at Brayden, I wasn't mad at Brooke, I was only mad at myself. I was only mad at myself. And we drove up to, you know, my house and Brayden goes in first and he Goes and wakes up Josh. Josh was asleep by like 6 o'clock On a regular night. He's an old man, so it was like 9 o'clock, but like he was already asleep and he goes in and wakes him up and I guess he goes over to Josh and is like he's like hey, brayden's been messing around on you. I'm going to talk to her in the living room and you know I'm sitting on the couch now and she looks at me and he's shaking. He has the shakes and it's not like Cold, like he's not just cold. His whole body Was shaking and I was just sitting there, calm and but not the type of calm where it's like I have peace. No, it was like calm, like I was making myself be calm Because I needed to Make him feel like like that I didn't care, because at this point I wanted to be done Like with the marriage. Um, so I'm sitting there and he is like what's going on? Why haven't you been home? Why don't you talk to me? Why don't you say you love me anymore? And I looked at him and I was like I'm having a affair and he goes with you and I said to him whatever he goes, I knew it. Because I didn't want to know it, I kind of wanted to look past it, but I knew it and I was like, of course he did Like, yeah, whatever. Of course he did. I hadn't been home for two months. How could you not see it? You'd be done if you didn't. And um, then we had a very big dispute because I had told him what it was going on. But within five minutes after me telling him this information, that just rocked his world, he forgave me and he was like I forgive you, I love you. And that completely changed everything, cause now I'm looking at him and I had to look away because I no longer saw Josh sitting on the couch. It was only Jesus. And I was like wow, like there's no other way that he would have been able to forgive me if he hadn't just been living a life to God, like there's no other way he would have been able to express that forgiveness if he had, if he himself had not been able to receive forgiveness. And I was so mad, I was so mad, I was so mad. I was like you're kidding, you don't forgive me. I deserve so much badness and hate. And like you should leave me. We're getting a divorce If you don't leave me, I'm leaving you this whole thing and it escalates. I don't know if he shared this, but I ended pepper spraying him.
Speaker 1:You did a cheer, you were. You were like this this is what like logical thinking or anything. You were like flooded emotionally.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, just everything came out so suddenly and I was just like like everything just came out and yeah, like I was trying to get out of there, like like we, I don't know where I would have gone, probably somewhere not good, but I mean I was trying to leave and he was preventing me from leaving, not in like any type of like that way. But you know like obviously I was acting literally insane and so, like you know, he was like my keys. He took away my keys. My keys have never been sprayed. That's true. Rough. I caught my keys somehow. I tried I have all I did. I have peppers right in the eyes and then I'm thinking like, oh yeah, this is it, like I'm gonna pepper spray him and I'm going to be able to run for it.
Speaker 1:And you're like going to get to the car and Right.
Speaker 2:Did not work. In fact, what he did was he wiped the pepper spray from his eye and put them, put his hand and wiped it across my eyes. So then I was unable to see and I'm gagging and I'm like, oh my gosh, just did not go as planned. Now it's not like me.
Speaker 1:So you, seeing you being forgiven by him, was was like is just repulsive to you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I was like, how dare you forgive me when I can't forgive myself? Yeah, like it was just not comprehensive to me that he was able to do it and so quickly to my dad, in five minutes, he said those words I forgive you, I love you and we'll get work through this and we will get past this. And I was like, no, we won't. You're crazy If you think this is going to be okay. Yeah, that was. It was a tough spot because I was very upset with myself and I let him know it. Pretty much I've been sprayed those really bad, but um, yeah, so that happened. Then they my well, because I've ever sprayed him he had called my mom and my dad and they came up to my house and they said, and they calmed everything down or what, whenever? And they were like sitting on the couch and then Braden gets there and then my brother in law, Elijah, gets there and you know they're all sitting around me and they're all trying to speak truth into me and I'm not receiving it because I'm choosing not to receive it. And because I'm choosing not to receive it is because I felt like I couldn't receive it because of everything that I've done. I had sex before marriage, I've given my way, I've given away my gift of marriage and all these other things that I've done in the past. I just I like I couldn't let it go because I felt too familiar with it almost. And so that happened the night of March 2nd. So my my birthday Eve, we go to sleep or whatever, and Josh sleeps on the couch. I get the bed and he wakes me up on my birthday and is like you're going over to your sisters because you need to be the sitter. He says that to me and I was like whatever, and so go over to my sister's house and she's just being very sweet and kind and patient and she's talking with me like nothing happened. And we go into my nephew's like little nursery and we're sitting in there and then my best friend Brie shows up. Her name is Brie. She shuns up with like a Starbucks in hand and is like happy birthday. And I was like so, like distraught, because I was like, oh my gosh, everybody knows and they all found out, they're the great fine, pretty much. And you know, she comes over and we're sitting and my sister is like talking with me and Brie is talking with me and Brie goes I forgive you, Even though you didn't do anything for me. I forgive you. And I was like, yeah, and then Brooke says she forgave me, even though I didn't do anything to her either, but she forgives me and that she doesn't look at me any differently. And there does Brie like she didn't look at me any differently and that kind of rocked my world because I was like, wow, these two very people, these two very important people in my life, have forgiven me for something absolutely disgusting. And Josh forgave me last night for doing something absolutely disgusting to him and I broke down and I'm just like sobbing and my sister and Brie start praying and I gave my life back to Jesus. And that that moment of you know, like realization that I don't want things of the world. I don't want it. In fact, I realize the only way I'm going to be able to move on and as if I am able to trust God, and I did it and I reconciled with Josh and I called him and was like I love you. And I was like and I'm so sorry for what I've done to you, and he goes oh, that's okay, I love you. And he's like happy on the phone and I'm like, oh my gosh, like how does he have such joy right now? Wild, and I I even thought I did I gave my life back and I was like I'm gonna gonna be different and I realized like you know these things of, I don't want the things of this world, I want what God has in store for me and I got up and we left and the first week of being home with Josh after everything was kind of tough, not for any other reason than me not being what's the word I was having struggles with. You know well familiar ways of thinking. You know I was. I guess I believe that Jesus was for me and I was for him. Yes, I believe that on my birthday. But that week, that first week, I was struggling almost to put, to put away with the, the old, familiar thoughts and like mindset basically, and because of that I was feeling like I needed closure from the man Because I don't know, just old, familiar ways of thinking, like I was like.
Speaker 1:I just deception.
Speaker 2:Yeah, lies. And because of this, like it was causing a problem for Josh and I, because it was all I could think about is that I need closure. I don't even know closure from what I don't. I couldn't tell you. I just felt like I need closure. And so because of this, I took. We were talking one night it was like a Saturday night or whatever and we're talking and I was like I need closure and you need to let me have it, because otherwise I'm not going to be able to move on, blah, blah, blah. He was like you can move on, like you just need to let yourself move on, and I was like you can find all of your closure in Jesus if you just let it happen. And I'm like sitting there and like you don't understand, like that bond. I was like you don't understand Josh, and and then she was like no, like I think I do understand, because if anyone were to need closure right now, it'd be me, with you feeling like you need closure. I was like. I hope, another man. I was like if anyone needs closure right now, it's me, because but I can find it through Jesus and not from you. So I was like, whenever I took off my ring, made a big old dramatic took off my ring and I hopped in the car. He let me leave and I went to a Target parking lot and I was sitting there literally scrolling through TikTok and my phone is blowing up, like every single family member that I have was texting me my little brother even was texting me and where I'm like seeing all these messages go through and like all these calls go through and I just turn off my phone. So I'm like, whatever, how are they gonna whatever? So I turn off my phone and then I turn it back on and it's like text messages from Josh saying like I love you, please come back home to me, we'll work through this. These things, like these really nice things is like you were saying. And then I get a call from him and I answer and then he he was like I'm at your work right now and I need to know where you are and I was like, oh my gosh, like what? Like I'm in a target parking lot. Like what are you guys doing? Whatever that whole thing happened. And then they come to the target parking lot where I was, and they was very dramatic. My sister was very upset with me. My sister was there, brie was there, josh was there, brayden pulled up and my dad pulled up. Very dramatic, but it was probably needed for the case. I don't know I was acting crazy, but yeah, so they all got there, they're all talking to me and whatnot, and they're like well, you just come home. I was like, yeah, okay, obviously I'm gonna come home. And Brayden or somebody says like, oh, like she'll ride with Brooke. And I like looked at Brayden and I shook my head. Now I was like, no, don't let me drive home with Brooke, don't let me drive home with Brooke and Brayden goes. Nah, I'll take her home. I was like, yes, oh, what's the? So Brooke? No, brooke was very upset with me. She, I believe, if I'm remembering correctly, she punched me in the gut. I did not wanna be near her at the moment. So I was like don't let me ride with Brooke. So Brayden was like no, I'll take her home. Whatever we have, I have him in his car. We're talking, or no? He's talking to me. Basically he's talking to me and he's just speaking truth into my life.
Speaker 1:Like what kind of stuff?
Speaker 2:is this and he's like you know, it's literally same things. That, like Josh says, is like you are not the person you're acting like, Like just because you're acting a sort of way or you're feeling a certain way, doesn't mean that's who you are and you don't need to live it. And I am sitting there and I'm like how do I not live it Like? How do I just like not Cause, like what if the thought comes and whatever? And Brayden's like that doesn't matter, cause you aren't that person and you're not an adulterer and you're not these things. Who you are is your, pure, righteous and holy and a child of God. And I was like huh, I was like okay, and then he shares with me. He shares with me or, let me find it, we're in his car still and he shares with me. Romans 715. I don't really understand myself, for I want to do this right, but I don't do it instead of do what I hate. But if I know that what I'm doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. So I'm not the one doing wrong, it's just him living in me that does it. And that's 17,. That's Romans 517 through 17. 15 through 17,. Oh my gosh here. He shares that with me. And I was like yeah, that's me. I was like I do what I don't want to do. And he was like yeah, he was like but that's not who you are. He was like that's just your sinful nature, that's what you were born into. And I was like oh, you mean, I don't have to do what is wrong every time. And he was like no, and so then we're at my house and he's talking to me more about Romans 5. Or that's Romans 6. Oh, that's Romans 7. What am I talking about? Oh my gosh, oh my goodness, that is so funny.
Speaker 1:No, he's describing that.
Speaker 2:I was looking up here.
Speaker 1:You're good.
Speaker 2:Oh, look at that.
Speaker 1:But this is this You're like great. Where Paul's describing what the law does to someone who is not in Christ right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah and wow. It hit different after hearing it from Braden and him having someone on one time with me in my house and we were just talking about it and it came to a point where I understood Like these words were making sense. And we're in my bedroom and Josh is in the front room and Braden's like you need to confess what you've done and confess it to Josh. And just he was like, but once you confess it, it's not in you, it's not in you anymore, it doesn't define you. He said you don't let it define you. And I was like, okay. He was like, do you want to confess? And I was like, yeah, I don't want to live like this. And so then he brings Josh in the room and we're sitting there and I just confess everything, like anything that I can think of that, like during our marriage time that I've done wrong to him. I'm just confessing it. Like just confessed it and like, cause it was on my mind, it was a conscious thing, like anything that was bothering me, that I know that I did was wrong in the moment. I just confessed it and after that Josh and I reconciled again. But the difference, I think, from the week that my birthday from my birthday to whatever, that following Saturday was that week. Yes, I believed I was going to change, but that mindset was still there. But then that Saturday night, when Braden was explaining, thanks to me, my mindset completely changed and from that point, from March to November, I believed yes, I am free from sin. Sin does not define who I am, it is not something that I do and all these things. I'm living in the truth. I'm living in the truth and I'm living in the truth, braden, from March to November, everything I believe in the Bible that says it's true about me, I believe it's true about me 100%. Then I meet you, rich.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're gonna take a really quick break from the episode and I'm gonna bring on a friend of mine that lives on the other side of the world. It's my friend Ruth. Ruth, what's up? Hi how you doing.
Speaker 4:Just realizing that whenever I say hello to people, I instantly start giggling, so I feel like that's a good indication.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Hey, Ruth, quick question how long have you been rocking with the gospel?
Speaker 4:The gospel as I now know it just over two years, nearly two and a half years, yeah.
Speaker 1:Two and a half years.
Speaker 4:Two and a half years, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what has the gospel done in changing your life?
Speaker 4:Oh goodness, I think the biggest thing has always been that I lived from some kind of lack mindset that made me innately identify as a victim to circumstances, victim to peoples perceptions of me, and at the same time I just would deep dive into people pleasing to elevate their perceptions, even if just for a moment, and I just went on to struggle with anxiety, depression, bitterness towards people, resentment. It was just a whole mess. But then God did something.
Speaker 1:So it's different now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's different, and it's not just because I say so, it's because he says so, and I've just decided to believe him.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this you have donated time, energy, money to get this message out there. Why is that important to you?
Speaker 4:I think, because there are far too many people within the church and also outside of it that don't understand how profoundly simple it is and how final God's word is over their life. And God's obviously. He's a storyteller himself. So what's better than a testimony to kind of help us realize that he wants to do something better in our lives?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you would like to join with us, go to loverealityorg slash give and every dollar you donate goes to keep this story getting out there, the story that Jesus has in fact brought you from death to life. So join with us, loverealityorg slash give and let's get the story out there. Huh, does that sound good, ruth?
Speaker 4:I feel like that sounds all right yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get back to the episode. Let me give you a little backstair. So, the week that this is going on, braden and I are on the phone and we're talking about stuff and we're praying about it for sure, and there's stuff that he was like there was lies creeping in and we're praying about those things. And when he said, sister, I thought he was, I thought you were gonna be like a 30 year old person. I didn't know you were like a 19 year old. He never told me your age. He's just like yo, my sister is tweaking out bro and I'm like well, what's going on? And so I thought this was like Tweaking out.
Speaker 2:It was crazy.
Speaker 1:I'm like what's going on? And then we really kind of stopped talking about it, Like Braden and I don't talk super often, but you know. So I get to this thing and he's introducing me and I think I'm at Brooke first and right when I walk in there I'm like I wonder, cause I had no idea. I'm like I wonder who his sister is that was struggling those months back, who was tweaking. Who was tweaking out. And so I meet Brooke and I'm like no, it can't be Brooke, because she wasn't the girl in the story wasn't pregnant and Brooke is pregnant, so it can't be Brooke. And so then I meet you, but Braden's not there to be like it's her. She was the one that was tweaking out. And so I start preaching and you're just on my heart the whole time I'm preaching and I'm not good at eye contact when I'm preaching, but I was looking at you I don't know if you felt that like a large percentage of the time that I would look out there and you were sitting in the front row and you had like a red like Ohio State sweater on, and so I'm like I hope I'm not weirding her out, but I desperately want her to receive this message, because I didn't know where you were with it and that night were you like completely solid in it, like were you like all the way in? I didn't know. So I'm like in my mind, I'm like Jesus, take the week.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that was so funny. Yeah, no, I was completely solid. I knew who I was and I knew I would speak from sin. Completely solid. My life looked absolutely different. Our joxanized marriage looked absolutely different from March to November. The thing was, that night you came to me and you sat down and I had a friend there and you sat down and you were like so how's everything going with you? That question you guys always asked to get the perfect person talking How's everything sitting with you? And I was like, yeah, no, it's super good.
Speaker 1:And then I was like, maybe this isn't her. I was like, oh, it must be another sister who's not here.
Speaker 2:No, it was me. No, I was like, yeah, no, it's just super good, Like it was awesome. Thank you for sharing your story, whatever, yeah, that kind of thing. And you were like, I was like. Your story reminds me I think the next day you're on, I was gonna lie about my story.
Speaker 1:And you just gave me the signal that you couldn't talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You were like I can't talk. I was like oh, okay, yeah yeah, you were like Cause I didn't want to be pushy either, like I'm not there to go where I'm not invited. If you would have been like cool, thanks for your story, I would have just backed completely off. But since you gave me like a signal like I can't talk right now but maybe I can talk, I'm like, oh, maybe she's the one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. So my friend was standing right there and I didn't want her to, I didn't want her to perceive things the wrong way, almost Like I didn't want to share it with her because work, I know her from work.
Speaker 1:There's only a few people who know about it, right?
Speaker 2:Few people who know and few people who know through the grapevine. Right. Okay, not people that I've gone out of my way to share, right With, okay. But because of this I didn't want things to be perceived wrong from her point and I also didn't want her to fall into that temptation of gossip Maybe if she heard mine and then take it to work. And I didn't want to, I didn't want to give it that the, I don't want to give it the whatever Power there. Yeah, I didn't want to give it the power. I just I know that people, because of their own way of like you know, like gossip and stuff that spreads fast, rumors, sure, and so I just didn't want to. I didn't want, honestly, I didn't want to give other people the opportunity to gossip about me and then that would be giving them like a, a temptation to sent, and so I was like I'll just keep it to myself until I know it's right to share. And yeah, when I heard you talk and everything, I was like, yeah, I was like that's who I'm sharing it with, that's who I'm sharing it with. I was like that's it. I was like that's the one. So then the next day we're at my brother and Savannah's house and we're, you and Josh started talking about sports the chiefs and the bangles. Would you believe it? You guys started talking about sports and then, would you believe it, we got the dirt talking about my death, the honey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had no idea. That's how. I had no idea how Josh was, and I think we were doing that surface level sports stuff first, and then I think you came over and sat down and I was like let's just sit down. Yeah, and I was going to try one more time. And and yeah, yeah, you tell me this story and I didn't know how it ended. Like, I didn't know if you were like telling me to be like, and I'm still trash, I'm still this old person, and you're telling me the story and there's tears flowing down your eyes and there's a few times on you know, this podcast is. I don't know how many episodes it is now, it's quite a few, but there's been a few times where in the podcast, I'm listening and I'm like, how is it going to end? Like, is like this person going to tell me, like that they still don't know? Like, why am I interviewing them on the podcast? Like, if they're going to tell me that they don't know the truth, like we're not going to be able to put this episode out, yeah, and you're telling me and you're crying and there's tears flowing down your eyes and I'm like, am I going to go in right now? And just like, break down, like no, bree, you are the righteousness of God in Christ. And so I say something to the effect of like, but do you get it now? And this huge smile just comes on your face and you're like, oh no, like I know it, like I believe this now, and as tears are coming down your face and Josh is over here crying and I'm trying to hold it, hold it together, and I was just like, oh, praise the Lord. And in my mind I'm like, oh, yesterday what I preached and what I'm going to preach tonight is like it's just resonating with her and she's just receiving it because she's already known, and so that was huge for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what was huge for me was sharing it for the first time. So from that moment, I have been different. I don't know how to explain it to you, other than the fact that, since I have shared it, there has been something radically changed through sharing it. Yeah, I have this undeniably huge urge to dig in my Bible and I had that like my set of oh, I need to be in my Bible, you know, but there's something that is in me that I can't get out and it's the urge of I want to know more and I just I find that through reading my Bible and I have been very open about my story I shared with you, I think on a Saturday, yeah, on a Saturday, sunday, monday, monday night, brayden and Santa have another Bible study group from the whole. You know, your guys' whole thing that you're able to do and I've shared with the group and this was my only second time sharing and I shared with my fellow believers and now everybody knows and you know, and I'm just sharing and I feel. I'm not feel, but like I know who I am and it just it felt beautiful for me because it was like I'm out of my shell, I am, I'm trying You're being yourself. Yeah, I'm being myself and I'm sharing who I am and there's nothing more to it other than that person Last year it's not the same person who's sitting here talking to you today and that has been something that has been resonating with me and I'm like, wow, it's been a year. And I even sat down with Josh and was like not many people can go through what we went through and still be okay a year later, but be better than ever. And we, our marriage, is just the best thing in the world, like I love it and I love him, but not I don't love him because I need him and I don't want this marriage because I need it, because I need to feel like I'm secure. I want it and I love it because I have Christ in me and I am able to give it. So, because I have received it, I'm able to really give, and I really give my story to anyone who would like it I'm not worried to anyone who wants to hear it. I mean, I have been on a roll. Yeah so. And it's not gonna stop.
Speaker 1:That Saturday night there had been somebody who was like talking about why are we always preaching freedom from sin? Like, why do we always preach Romans six? Why do we always do it? Yeah. And so after hearing your testimony like if I only spoke twice that weekend and usually I will go into something else but I was like no, I need to talk about why we preach this, and because that specific person was gonna be in the audience. And then I was like, okay, so I started off my whole talk and I was like this is why we do it. And while I was up there I was like, oh, now I know how I'm gonna end it. And I was going through different people in the audience and I didn't say their names. I was just like cause my buddy, chris, was there. I was like Chris, I didn't say his name. I was like a guy who was addicted to drugs, my brother in law. He lies. He was there. So I told like his story without saying his name. And then yours was the last story, yours and Josh, and I mentioned it. But I didn't look at you at all, cause if I would have seen you there and you would have been looking uncomfortable, I would have stopped. But I wanted you to see and hear how your testimony is powerful. Right, I wanted you to see like this was for you, but, like I said, I was too scared to look at you. And so then the next morning, savannah is like yo, she's different, like she's been reconciling with friends, she's been this, that, this, that, this, that, and so it's just like the power of sharing what God has done in our lives. It's the thing. It's the thing that gets this out there, like this is the purpose of the Death to Life podcast. It's not so you can hear, right? It's not like you can walk away and be like Brie was crazy, what a crazy story. Like Brie, wow, it's for you to hear that. No, this is true about you as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so when I saw that in you and I see how you've been living your life and that you have been sharing, yeah, what a, what a, what a powerful tool to get people to see it, yeah, for themselves, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy, I just can't stop Like and it's, it's wild cause. I was talking like a friend a couple of days ago and I was sharing with her my story and well, she had apologized. She was like I'm sorry, like for the way that I found out about it. Just like out of nowhere, just out of nowhere. She was like I'm sorry for the way I found out about it, found out about it and I apologize for talking about you behind your back. And I said that's okay, I love you, I'm not forgiving you, it's all good. And she was like how are you so gay with that? And I just shared with her. I was like, well, you know Roman six and all these things. And I shared with her and I was like you know, like I'm not the same person I was a year ago and she goes. No, like I see it. She was like you're different. She was like you're even talking differently. And I was like that's just the power of the good news, it's just the power of the gospel. I was like and it's in me, so there's no other way you're gonna talk to me. I like like you could say whatever you want, but it doesn't matter because I know who I am in Christ and because of that I get to live it and all these things, and she's just like wow, like why have I never heard about this before? And. I'm like, well, you're hearing it now, so yeah, that was, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Let me. I was gonna bring Josh on, but I feel like this is good. Where am I gonna take you back to? Where are we gonna go If you could go to Bre, who is so against feeling bad that she just pushes everything away and she's in the middle of this relationship with her boyfriend and it's giving her her life, and now part of that's changed because he's living different and she's feeling some sort of way about herself. If you could jump in the time machine and go back and take this girl out for coffee and just sit down with her, what would you? What would you tell her? What would you try to say to her?
Speaker 2:You're not the things that you're giving into, you're not, you're not these things that you're letting control your life, just because, if you do, it doesn't mean that that's who you are. I think I struggled a lot with identity and I think that the identity I was finding in other people and like I, was the voice that influenced, not the influencer, and I just, and now I believe I am an influencer to people because I want them to know the good news. And yeah, I, just I, just I, just I just I just want to know the good news and I just I, just I, just I just I want people to know the good news. I don't want the internet to cheat cakes, not to cheat halels or anything. And and, and, and and and. I will start a conversation and look at that, and and I'm just gonna. This is quick but, I, don't wanna be excited anymore.
Speaker 1:Everything is in there. No, I don't be a blessing to so many people we can't Like. God is using you. God will use you. What is that gonna look like? We don't know. We don't know. Yeah, our lives have been changed and if someone can hear, then we'll tell them the story. And so I believe that, if it's on a one-on-one level, if it's through this podcast, that you're gonna be a blessing to whoever God puts in your path and you're growing in maturity. You're growing like I am, you are, yeah, raiden is, josh is. We're not gonna stop, yeah, come. And so I think that's awesome. I don't think we need to feel pressure on us to do it like. My pressure is that I explain it the best way that I can. I don't feel like a pressure that this podcast has to. Something weird's gotta happen with it or whatever. I just feel like with every story, that we tell that we need to tell the best way and that we just pray that God uses it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:And so the same thing with you. Don't feel any pressure outside of, just like. He's changed my life, so it's my privilege to tell this story.
Speaker 2:It is, and it's so exciting to share. Amen.
Speaker 1:I'm just so excited. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:My pleasure.
Speaker 1:If you think you are the sum of everything you've done and that you're still the old person, this prayer is for you. Father, I know you say that if I'm in Christ, I'm in new creation, but there's something holding me back from believing that I'm forgiven. Thank you for revealing that to me as the lie that it is, so I can walk in the newness of life that you purchased for me and have given to me by Jesus. I'm going to put conviction around the idea that I'm a new creation, that the old has gone and that the new has come in Christ Jesus. Thank you for giving this to me, and I'm praying this in Jesus' name. Amen. Yeah, love, love, love. That story. You got to keep on meeting up with the saints. Meet up with us on internet church every other Friday night. That's where we like to get down the after party. People be receiving the gospel. So see you at internet church. Bye.