Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#195 Jadra pt 2: Navigating Parenting and Marriage with Gospel Wisdom
What if understanding the gospel could transform not just a belief system but your entire life? Join us as we reconnect with Jadra, our inspiring return guest, who shares her journey from the shadows of shame and depression to the light of spiritual freedom and maturity in Christ. Reflecting on her growth since her first appearance, Jadra offers deep insights into overcoming personal struggles through the power of God's love, and we discuss the origins of our podcast and our commitment to sharing transformative stories. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of personal growth, faith, and finding freedom through the gospel.
Our conversation ventures into the everyday challenges of parenting and marriage, exploring how faith provides clarity and hope in these significant life areas. Through a touching narrative about my eldest son, I reveal the real struggles and joys of parenting, underscoring the transformational role of faith in family life. We also discuss maintaining a balance between leadership and personal faith, especially when managing sensitive topics like medication and spirituality. It's a candid look at how trusting the Holy Spirit can guide us through the intricacies of raising children and maintaining marital harmony amidst financial uncertainties.
We conclude with a powerful conversation about embracing gospel freedom and love. Emphasizing forgiveness, trust, and communication, we highlight the importance of keeping fears and insecurities in the light, within both spiritual and marital contexts. As we share personal anecdotes about marriage and the challenges we face, the importance of honesty and continuous growth becomes evident.
0:00 - Transformation Through the Gospel
11:24 - Parenting Transformation Through Faith
21:46 - Navigating Spiritual Growth and Authenticity
33:28 - Navigating Feelings and Truth
49:27 - Learning Forgiveness and Trust in Marriage
1:04:11 - Living in Gospel Freedom and Love
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:One of the big temptations for me, even now, even today, is still shame. I've just like man. I know how I, I know what gentleness looks like, I know what patience looks like, I know it lives in me Now. I know these things. So how do I walk this out Like? How do I walk this out Like, how do I walk this out? And one of the huge things in my life right now that the Holy Spirit has just been guiding me in is to get sad, not mad, and to allow myself to feel those feelings and then receive comfort from the Heavenly Father and for a while, like I, every, every time I thought about God and picture God, I would think of Jesus, and just in the last few months, god is like I really want to bring you in to see me as a father, because that was still difficult for me for me, yo, welcome to the Debt to Life podcast.
Speaker 1:My name is Richard Young and today's episode is kind of different. It's a return guest and we're going all the way back to the beginning. We're going back to Jadra. Jadra was episode number three. We talk about that a little bit in this episode and she has grown so much, I've grown so much, we have all grown so much, and this episode there's familiar themes, especially since Jadra and I kind of share a lot of stuff. One of them is we talk about parenting, we talk about marriage, we talk about ADHD. I have a photo that Jadra and Michaela and Hannah left in my office just looking at me every day when I'm recording this podcast. Kind of fun.
Speaker 1:But this episode is fun because Jager's amazing and there's so much to learn and grow in freedom that we just get to talk about it. I was talking to somebody today in freedom that we just get to talk about it. I was talking to somebody today and they were telling me about how they were listening to Miley's episode of the podcast and how Miley first got this but then she got this and then she got and they were just commenting about how there's so much growth and I think that understanding your freedom from sin is the beginning. It is the beginning of Christian maturity. It's the beginning of growing up into him, and Jadra and I discussed that amazing episode. You're going to love it. This is Jadra, so buckle up, strap in love. Y'all appreciate y'all. Do you remember what time of year it was when we recorded the podcast?
Speaker 1:oh, what time of the year I think it was fall of 2021, right well, well, yeah, I do, I got.
Speaker 2:I was set free from all the craziness in June and, yeah, I think it was that fall.
Speaker 1:And I remember distinctly having a conversation with Tyler. We were, I was in the mall and like this is a visceral just, and we were talking about your podcast, or we were talking about the podcast because it you're episode number three. You're like there's Tyler, there's Morgan and then there's Jadra, and I just remember like maybe we should just go with Jadra, cause we didn't know what the podcast was going to be. It was going to be a podcast and we're going to be talking about freedom and we're. We were really excited to be talking about freedom and I'd interviewed Tyler and it interviewed Morgan and I was like maybe we should just interview people about their story. And I said, well, what about Jadra? And Tyler didn't know you, but he was like, yeah, man, send it, just just go for it. And so I have.
Speaker 2:You heard it recently it and so, hi, have you heard it recently? No, no, but I, I remember listening to it and I just like I remember, you know, I just I was fresh, it was fresh and so, uh, yeah, I just feel like I've learned so much since then, but I know it was good.
Speaker 1:I think you're number three because I don't think I'd, in my life or my experience maybe a few other people, but I don't think I had ever been bold enough to talk to somebody about the gospel and really explain it to them and they receive it. And so you're in the top of my mind where I'm like I mean, I like that was just a huge experience for me. And so if someone hasn't heard episode three, could you give like a, a CliffsNotes? What was going on in your life before? Uh, we before we ran into each other on that COVID-infested beach in Missouri.
Speaker 2:No one cared. Nobody cared so funny. Yeah, it's so funny because, just thinking back, like you and I are so similar, like because, after I was set free, I started just word vomiting my testimony all over everybody, the same way that you did to me that day on the beach.
Speaker 2:Just so much excitement and God knew like I would never pass up an opportunity to just talk, give him praise for what he had done. So yeah, essentially just so much depression, hopelessness, helplessness. And I just had no idea that I was being lied to, like, when I think back to that girl, like I was still a pretty cheerful person, but internally I just there was lies, lies, lies. And I just didn't know. I didn't know that I was being lied to by the enemy lies, lies, lies. And I just didn't know. I didn't know that I was being lied to by the enemy.
Speaker 2:And so that day, when you word vomited me, your testimony, it literally changed and transformed my life. The Holy Spirit poured out over me. I believe that you told me two times on the beach because I was so interested, but you could tell I didn't really understand what you're saying. And then it was at the campfire later that night that I was like tell my husband what you've been telling me. And then, while you're speaking to my husband, the Holy Spirit just unveiled my eyes and I mean it was radical how I just realized I was being lied to.
Speaker 2:And from that point on it's just been such a blessing to know who speaks the truth God speaks the truth that I can look at the Bible not through a lens of condemnation and shame. I had so much shame in my life, such a legalistic perspective on who God was, and now I get to read the Bible and see God through a lens of love, that he is for me and that my hope is in Jesus. When I'm feeling hopeless, that when I'm feeling helpless, he is always my help, my guide. When I'm in a situation and I don't know what to do, I can just lean on him, I can ask him and yeah, man, glory to Jesus.
Speaker 1:So I'm on Instagram quite a bit because I'm always making reels and I end up seeing all these mom accounts and the mom accounts they kind of have the basic kind of stuff and there's just these sweet ladies and they're trying to get through, they're trying to figure it out and they're some of them are so hilarious they're making jokes about it but in reality, like it just seems very, very hard. And you know, I'm a father. I have two kids. Uh, it can be hard to raise kids. What I saw from you back then is is like it's like you had a kid here, you had a kid here and you were like drowning and you were trying to swim while holding the kid and you had another kid on top of you and so you're just trying to figure out life and what I've seen since then.
Speaker 1:There's no doubt that raising kids has been hard, even since then, but it seems like there's like a whole new mission, like the mom just I don't know if this sounds mean, if someone's out there, don't take offense Like the basic mom just trying I don't know if this sounds mean, don't, if someone's out there, don't take offense like the basic mom just trying to figure it out. It doesn't seem like that's your experience. It sounds like you're still raising kids, but now you have, like this mission, you have purpose, you have value. Uh, it seems like the gospel just brought all that into your life. Am I off there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, my goodness, my identity before understanding the gospel and my identity was 100% mother. I would say mother, then wife and then perhaps Christian somewhere in there. So, yeah, like I was just like.
Speaker 2:I've heard that that saying like you, having a third child is like you're drowning in the ocean and someone throws you a baby and that's for sure how I felt and and and it is like you said, like parenting is so hard and I I was just talking to nicole walkinshaw, uh, this weekend about because she has three sons and she is always speaking life over me and just like, yeah, three boys. It's crazy, but there is hope. And and I just I want to tell this short little story, since you're bringing it up, of my one of my sons. It up of my one of my sons, my eldest son, and he was just behaving with bitterness and anger and I took him on a date and the very short version is we've prayed and asked the Holy Spirit to speak to them, especially when they lose something like a Lego piece to a set, or he lost like a.
Speaker 2:He collects rocks. He lost this rock that he paid $10 for. It was very valuable to him and we would pray and ask the Holy Spirit and usually the Holy Spirit would tell me where the things are, but then his faith was growing and that he could bring these little things to the Holy Spirit, and so this just happened a few weeks ago we were driving and he was just confessing all this bitterness towards his brothers and me and my husband because we let them get into his Legos. And then when he tries to defend his Legos that he's all got set up, then he gets in trouble for hitting them, and they never get in trouble. And so he just had all this unforgiveness and bitterness towards all four of us.
Speaker 2:And so the Holy Spirit gave me the idea to pay him quarters to talk to me, because he's more introverted, he's very intellectual like his father, and so he's not just going to want to talk about his feelings Most boys probably don't want to but, man, he just opened up and all the lies just came out. It was just this beautiful time of confession and we were driving in the car, and this is not something that has ever happened before, but I had told him. You know, unforgiveness is like drinking poison, expecting the other person to die, and he's like I hate when you say that. You always say that.
Speaker 3:I hate when you say that.
Speaker 2:I hate when you say that, Because I'm like Jesus has forgiven us. We get to pass on that forgiveness and then he, he goes. Huh. That road sign said pride and I was like, oh, he was a nine at the time, he just turned 10.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:He literally was like he has never read a road sign. To me that's not something we do, but it's like in that instance he recognized the Holy Spirit was speaking to him. And then we went on our date and like, after that confession he was a different kid, he was back to his normal self and we had a great date. We went to the pet store and then on the way home I'm like let's proclaim the truth, because after we confess all those lies and get them out, it's good then to thank God for revealing the truth. And he didn't really want to do it, but he repeated a prayer after me, just a short little prayer, and then we were getting on the exit to come to our little town and he goes, huh, that sign says choose joy, joy. And so that is the joy of being a mother now, of recognizing like, wow, god, the father is speaking to my son.
Speaker 2:My intellectual son needs a literal road sign because he doesn't yet know how to just hear maybe a whisper or see a picture. God speaks to us in a million different ways, right, but in that moment, like I have to say, like it was all I could do not to sob and then like make a big deal out of it and boys don't like that. So I was like, oh, thank you Jesus. And just like, oh, praise the Lord. Like no big deal. But I am just like, wow, this is the privilege I get to see my son have an intimate relationship with the King of Kings, god creator. Like what a difference, what a difference, praise God.
Speaker 1:Praise the Lord. So you were mentioning this and I don't maybe you hadn't thought about it this that you and I have similar personalities and so, uh, when we get excited about something, we're just going to send it. When you receive the gospel, obviously you go to your church. If you haven't heard these episodes, there's at least four or five episodes just from your church on the podcast. All of this stuff happens and you were just going for it, but you weren't completely clear like the scriptures side of it. You just knew we were free. Do you remember some of the stuff that you were saying now that you were like, oh, I should have been clear about this, but I didn't understand it?
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure, For sure. I knew I had read Romans 5, 6, 7, and 8. I knew I was free from sin. Let me tell you, and I was just telling that to everybody we're free from sin, we're free from sin. And I think, when you proclaim that and you're just blabbering all over everybody, and especially when you're like me, like I wasn't, you know, I'm not intellectual per se, I mean in Christ I am obviously.
Speaker 1:But You're an intelligent person but maybe you'd like. You're not into like.
Speaker 2:Diving into the Bible like, ooh, let me read this in the Greek and Hebrew, yeah, so, but I mean, the Holy Spirit revealed, I read that and it was like as crystal clear as it could be. I read that and it was like as crystal clear as it could be. Obviously, the Holy Spirit had unveiled that truth to me. And you know, there's definitely some conflict in the church with, like, are you guys saying you can do whatever you want now? And well, yeah, but then there was like conflicts, like, oh, people were come to church with coffee and anyways, you know. And then there was the whole forgiveness thing and uh, we definitely were.
Speaker 2:Just I wouldn't say we were saying anything. That wasn't true, but it was our presentation and our lack of backing it up biblically. And so God just started to pour into us. We started gathering every single Sabbath, we would eat lunch and then a group of us would just open the Bible and say, okay, holy Spirit, what do you want to teach us? And he just, really, I know, in that time my precious sister Michaela started. Just, she read the whole New Testament in like two months in her closet and I didn't read through it quite that quickly, but it's like, yeah, and everything said the same thing, so he started to build that foundation. But yeah, we definitely made some oopsies, for sure, and offended some people.
Speaker 1:It's hard, you know, as I think about it now, knowing what I know now and knowing what I didn't understand back then, it's hard for me to say I would do anything different with the information I knew because I just didn't know, right, you just don't know and you're just so excited and you're so happy and people are hearted yeah but now, if you would have understood it like I don't think you just go and you bulldoze people, but it seems.
Speaker 2:I don't do that anymore that God has.
Speaker 1:People are drawn to you. People are drawn to the Holy Spirit in you. As you have seen, man, people keep coming to me for counsel, people. Did you see that right away, that people were coming to you, and how did you feel about that? And what do you think you would have thought about that before freedom?
Speaker 2:You know, people have been coming to me for counsel since I was like I remember my girlfriends in high school would come to me to get advice about their boyfriends and I had never had a boyfriend and they were coming to me. And so I think like it's cool how God develops you into these big plans he has for your life, and like I'm sure I gave them terrible advice and so, yeah, people definitely started coming to me right away. And then what was the question?
Speaker 1:How did you feel about that? And now that you had something to say, was that weird or was it? Were you like oh, this is who I am. I'm like, god has given me this.
Speaker 2:I was so, my heart was so pure, I was so excited. I literally, in my innocence, four years ago, four short years ago, I literally thought that every single person that I shared the gospel with, if I had an opportunity to share the gospel and share my testimony in my mind, I thought they were going to be set free from not agreeing with pure gospel. Like I actually believe that I, I was so innocent and so, um, yeah, like I think I thought that too.
Speaker 1:I think I thought that too. But what, that's a good problem to have, because then you're at least sharing it more often, right?
Speaker 2:you are like I was like it, we're at this, the, the red light. Is there there any windows down? Is there anything you want me to talk to? Going to the grocery store, like it was. And then the Holy Spirit started to say, okay, like, there's only certain people I will I have, like you, you can't share this with everybody, jadra like, like, that's not realistic.
Speaker 2:And then people coming to me like I had to learn a really hard lesson, people coming to me like I had to learn a really hard lesson, one of the hardest lessons in this journey, because I do believe that one of my spiritual gifts and you know, I don't know if you've ever taken that spiritual gift quiz, this was even before freedom is discernment, okay, and so you know, I have a history of being a social worker, so this is just like relational lead. This is the area that I I love and I'm drawn to and it's my spiritual gift. And, um, I would see people's lives, I would see what was going on and I would just tell them, like I would tell them everything. And then what happened is people started to depend on me too much and, um, the Lord, I don't. I'm sure there's a million reasons that he pulled me away. But when he pulled me away and he and I had to move away from that church, he kept saying I didn't tell you you were responsible for them. He had to tell me this all the time, like so-and-so's calling me because so-and-so's upset and they're over here doing this and I'm like, oh, I better call them and take care of that. And he's like I didn't tell you to do that. Their feelings are not your responsibility. And he's like I didn't tell you to do that, like their feelings are not your responsibility. And he had to tell me that a lot.
Speaker 2:And still, even like recently, like just what he's really been stewarding me in is not to to give the answers, to lead people to the Holy Spirit and allow the Holy Spirit to tell them. And if he wants to use me to affirm what they're hearing, that's always going to be better than me just giving them the answer, because we don't in discipling others, we don't want them to get attached to us, we want them to get attached to Jesus, and so it's really important to have a balance. Like I don't want to be your interpreter for what the Bible says. I want the Holy Spirit to be your interpreter and I think anytime that you're called into just naturally into leadership, it's definitely a temptation to over explain and give too much information. But yeah, he's. He's always telling me I joke about this all the time Like Jada, just shut up and love them, just shut up. So talking, uh, yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is something that was coming up in the early, maybe two or three years ago, that we had to deal with it head on. And that is like we would be someplace and some church leaders would be like we hear, you're telling people to get off all of their medication. We hear that you guys, and so it was like. It was like this thing where we really had seen miracles and we believed. And then there was this other thing that you you were one of them that someone had decided to say well, I'm, I'm not going to be on my medication for X, y or Z, um, and we talked about that in your podcast episode, maybe on the strength of that or maybe with some of the miracles that we've seen, um, now, as you think about all of that and and we have had to tell people, and we say, and if you're wondering, our stance on that is, uh, do we're not giving out any medical advice?
Speaker 1:We're telling you who you are in christ. We're telling you what jesus has done. We're telling you about your wholeness and completeness in him and that you are healed from sin. We're not going to sugarcoat that. We're going to just tell it straight up. But there has been confusion, there's been hurt feelings. What do you think about all of that now, in hindsight?
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's a good one. That one I made a big mistake. I remember I made a Facebook announcement like nobody needs any medication.
Speaker 1:You did. I don't remember seeing that.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure that I did Like I don't remember exactly what I said, but wow, yeah, that was just, you know, in my innocence and my ignorance, and I, I repent because, yeah, I've since learned, like, and we did say, if the Holy Spirit leads you, and, and so now, yeah, I, I just, if you need medication, take the medication, cause since in the last four years, there was another season that I actually had to take medication and part of it was moving to a new area and not knowing anyone, and so I, I ended up taking medication again and then at a certain point, the Holy Spirit was like, okay, this is all done, and that's just recently, and so I think you're exactly right, like we are not doctors, we're just pointing you to Jesus and he will lead you into all truth and what's best for you. I don't know your brain, I don't know what your history is, and you know some of us have suffered in different ways and sometimes we need medication. I personally believe that we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it could be a blessing from God. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It can save your life.
Speaker 1:And I think you just saying I didn't know that that had happened, what you just said, I don't. I didn't remember anything about the facebook post or anything like that. But hearing you just say, yeah, I made a mistake, that's even powerful for me, because so much of the time, our identity is wrapped up in our rightness and so that's why we can't walk anything back, where I've certainly made mistakes, in how I've talked to someone or what I've said, uh, and you know, I've learned from them and I'm probably going to make. There's a chance, a slim chance, that I'm going to make another mistake. Uh, and God's going to discipline me and show me a different way. But that's powerful, that you can. Is freedom allowed you to be able to see past mistakes and just call them mistakes and not let the shame hit you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good question. So this is what I would love to just share, because I want to be so real and authentic and I have been saying recently, when I first received gospel and understood my identity as daughter, I definitely bought into what I would just coin the phrase like prosperity gospel. I really kind of thought, wow, my life is going to be so much easier and I thought any area of my life that needs refining would be healed instantly. The way that my depression was so like you and I have talked about being diagnosed with ADD, and that was so wrapped up in my identity. And I remember in the beginning of my journey being like, okay, well, I've been set free from depression, but I still have ADHD because I'm still losing my car keys in my wallet every single day and I have this problem and this problem and the Holy Spirit just kept telling me quit.
Speaker 2:Identifying like that's no longer your identity and then seeing the positive in what's unique to who I am and how I'm made and these areas that need refining. Like I had abuse in my childhood. That's the reality. So I didn't have, you know, a gentle like I know my father loved me very much and I know he loves me now, but I didn't have that gentleness, that of who God is modeled. And so in my marriage, in my parenting, like these are areas that God is always refining, and one of the big temptations for me even now, even today, is still shame of just like man. I know how I, I know what gentleness looks like, I know what patience looks like, I know it lives in me. Now. I know these things. So how do I walk this out? Like, how do I walk this out? And one of the huge things in my life right now that the Holy Spirit has just been guiding me in is to get sad, not mad, and to allow myself to feel those feelings and then receive comfort from the Heavenly Father. And for a while, every time I thought about God and picture God, I would think of Jesus. And just in the last few months, god is like I really want to bring you into seeing me as a father, because that was still difficult for me, and just receiving a hug from my father.
Speaker 2:So, like I mean, just a few weeks ago, I was like walking around cleaning the house and feeling overwhelmed, which is, you know, again, not identifying as, but habits of my past, is like when there's a lot of things to do, I I'm not my strength isn't in completing a lot of tasks, like I really admire those moms that can just go down the checklist, but I just feel so overwhelmed and I'm just so. Then I'm like I'm not going to do anything. And then the Holy Spirit, I'll just be like, okay, we're just going to do one thing, you know, just wash the dishes. But then one of the temptations for me would be to place blame on my spouse and my husband. Like it's his fault, he's not helping me more, why doesn't he help me more?
Speaker 2:And so then this like angerness and bitterness would build up inside me. And then I know that's not like part of who I am, and I know it's right now. I know I'm being lied to, like that's the revelation in the last four years. Like when these things come up, I know they're lies, I know that's not part of my identity. And so just like not having to figure it out, not having to speak truth, like shove truth over the fire, but then just receive comfort, and I think this is so important, comfort, and I think this is so important. If you're listening and you have anger, come up, those big emotions we first like when you have children. Richard, if your daughter comes home from school in tears, what would you do? Would you start being like listen, you're a daughter, you're a joyful daughter, you need to smile. Like would you just shove truth down her throat.
Speaker 1:No, what would you do? Put my arm around her and say what's wrong, baby, tell me about it.
Speaker 2:No, and that we live in a society that just wants to be like ugh, you're fine, just suck it up. And that's how a lot of people parent, like I don't want to hear about your feelings, I don't want to know about that, you're fine, and that's okay sometimes. And I am raising three young men and I do want them to be strong men. But God always offers comfort until we calm down and then he speaks truth and I think this is vital. That I didn't know in the beginning of my journey and so I still had just a lot of anger and you know, internally, and then that will come out with irritability towards my husband and my children. And now I'm just learning to like like. We just had a gospel retreat this weekend.
Speaker 2:I probably cried like twice every day, but like literally when I cry, if somebody like came up to me, I was like are you okay? Like oh well, I guess there is something brewing here, I'll literally cry for 30 seconds and they'll be like you know God loves you. And then I'd be like oh yeah, I'm good, I'm good, just kidding and it's. I used to have shame over crying, so it's all like OK, and shed a few tears for me. I'm not saying everybody has to do that.
Speaker 2:And then I just move on and it's like, oh OK, everything's good, we're, we're OK here.
Speaker 1:I think this is another one of these things that have gotten people confused, and maybe it's because we didn't explain it, and that's fine and we can learn how to explain it better. But the idea that feelings aren't Lord Jesus is Lord. People took that as like you shouldn't be having feelings. But the truth is there's no way around your feelings You're going to have them. There's no way around your feelings You're going to have them. And then, literally, you can't go through life avoiding your feelings or going around them. You actually have to deal with them and go through them.
Speaker 1:Somebody called me today and they were talking to me about a previous sin that they had committed, but it was recently and they're like I just don't want to think about it. And I said I think, I think you need to. I don't think you need to from a place of shame or condemnation, but I think you should be curious and observant of what feeling led to this behavior and then deal with the feeling and, like I said, we can't go over it. We can't go under it, we can't go around it, we need to go through it.
Speaker 1:And that's actually harder because one of the main ways that we get stuck in habits overeating pornography use, alcohol is we're trying to drown our feelings, we're trying to medicate our feelings. Alcohol is we're trying to drown our feelings, we're trying to medicate our feelings. And so when we and we still say, I still believe that feelings aren't Lord, jesus is Lord. But I also think that we deal with our feelings by going through them, examining them and then putting them up to truth and saying am I doing is like? Is this feeling from a bad thought? Is this feeling from a thought that's proper to me? Is this feeling from just a random thought? And I think I get why people were frustrated and now I teach it differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly. Me too. Like I remember saying feelings aren't Lord and and this is just developed so much and I have learned to do the Emmanuel prayer. Anyone that has called me for counseling in the last couple, yeah, several months, I mean God's just been taking me on this journey of leading other people to hear from the Holy Spirit instead of me telling them what he's telling me, and one of the things that happens all the time and this is a question, a part of the manual prayer and this is coming from we've talked about. Jim Wilder and Jamie Winship are two people that I've just really nerded out on recently and I've been talking about them to everybody.
Speaker 2:But when did you first partner with this lie? Because what I am seeing in ministry is that when a lie keeps coming back like it keeps like okay, we all have days where we're just like, okay, that was an intrusive thought, I repeat that in Jesus name. Like I just, my kids are at school and I'm just Lonnie dog, and then I have this thought that a tornado hit the school. Okay, that's ridiculous, that's an intrusive thought. It's sunny outside and I repeat that thought. But if it's something that keeps coming up over and over, usually you partnered with that light earlier a lot of times, in early childhood or maybe something traumatic that happened to you, and God is like he's such a good father that he's wanting to pluck out any weed, any weed. So if these negative feelings are coming up over and over, like I encourage you to just simply ask the Holy Spirit that question, like, okay, I keep having this fear, I keep having fear about this certain thing, and you know, I prayed about it and I spoke truth, but it's coming back every day. So then, okay, when did I partner with this fear? There's something more deeply rooted here and then God will just reveal it and pluck it out and it's so healing to.
Speaker 2:He reshapes our memories, like when you've had traumatic experiences abuse, neglect, rape, trauma like that.
Speaker 2:He is such a good Father that he actually will, because we have been given a new heart and a new mind, so he's purifying our mind.
Speaker 2:So if you've looked at pornography, he'll actually he's purifying your mind and and over time you won't even remember like those images, like he literally. I believe in my journey and my experience that he takes those things from your mind and so if there's a traumatic thing that happened in my childhood that has flashed in my mind. The enemy has used it to try to tempt me into fear or shame for years, for literally 20 years. What the Holy Spirit will do is reshape that memory so that when I think of it now, I think of it. Well, yeah, I have that memory, but Jesus was there and he was comforting me. And now I'm not triggered, that fear doesn't come up anymore, because now I'm looking at it through a totally different lens, because the enemy does like to like if you've, especially if you've had a traumatic experience or pornography, you know intimacy in our marriages like he likes to flash those images in your mind.
Speaker 1:And so Jesus, I believe, is always trying to completely eradicate any of those, those old things that the devil uses I think that if you're listening to this and you have something in common with, uh, with jayden myself, the mind that goes a million miles an hour. My mind is always going. Maybe it's my adhd, uh, and like I was just on a walk today and I'm listening to a book and my thoughts just start going. I just think of one thing. That leads to another thing, at least another thing. I no longer take that personally.
Speaker 1:I've had like intrusive thoughts. I've had as crazy of thoughts as anybody and I used to be like why am I having these thoughts? And now I'm like I don't, it doesn't matter why, it doesn't matter what it does, like when I started thinking about my brain as just the organ that is used to think and that the thoughts aren't necessarily like they don't say really anything about me, really anything about me, then I can think of the thought and say, oh no, I'm not interested in that thought. Or oh no, that's not anywhere I want to go. So if a thought comes up that's just like drive this car off the bridge right now, no, no, that's, I don't. I love life, I love my family, I love the gospel, I'm not going to do that and I don't even feel bad about it. But I don't think that there's many people that think about their thoughts that way. Right, they just own them and then you can see the spiral because they've never even thought. You know, you're really not your thoughts, your thoughts are just thoughts Like you're much deeper.
Speaker 1:Who you are is much deeper than a thought that comes into your head. Yes, and I think that has been huge for me, specifically with my ADHD, because before I'm like, well, what's like I wish I could just calm down, or I wish it. Now I'm just like, okay, yeah, it's going on up there. Okay, whatever doesn't need to affect my happiness or joy, I can actually choose if I'm going to ruminate on that thought and I'm not, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:That does make sense and so that's really beautiful that you have learned that. But what I would say is somebody that's young and immature, let's say you know, we love you guys so much, but there's a difference between being 20 years old and 40 years old, right, like we grow up in Christ and we also grow up in this body. Like we grow up in Christ and we also grow up in this body, and you know, that is why sometimes us older ones are called to counsel younger ones. And so I would say what I've seen in my ministry is somebody who suffered intense abuse and neglect will have less discernment and neglect will have less discernment. So what you're describing there, god has been stewarding you in for a very long time and you're very confident in His voice and what is an intrusive thought?
Speaker 2:But I just want to encourage, if you're new to gospel and you're young and you're still like, well, I'm not really sure if that was an intrusive thought, I'm not really sure, you know, still discerning the difference, I would say that's where, like, we have to give ourselves grace in the learning because that can, like those feelings arise, are really intense. And if I'm still not sure, like I know, my identity is son. I know I'm loved, I know I'm loved, I know I'm forgiven, I know I've been set free from sin, but these intrusive thoughts are coming in and I'm actually I'm not sure if they're from me or God. So, like, how would we, how could we be sure, like, what can we do to encourage these listeners to discern?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you and I were talking about this the other day. Romans 8 says that the Spirit ministers to our spirit, that we are sons. It seems like that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is. It actually probably doesn't all the time come at a thought level. It comes at a deeper level than a thought level, and then your mind has to interpret what you actually know from the inside. So something happened to you back in 2021. You knew something. You knew something deep, because the Holy Spirit had ministered it to your spirit, something deep within you.
Speaker 1:I know that I'm a daughter, I know that I'm loved, and then you were discerning and interpreting all of these things in your mind so that you could actually understand them. And we have the mind of Christ. So it's much deeper than just a mere thought that just jumps into your head. It is something that you know for sure and there's so many things now and maybe I'm just growing in this that I know for sure that I won't back down on that.
Speaker 1:Everything else is based off of that foundation. Number one I'm free from sin. Number two I'm a son. Number three I'm in Christ. Number four like I'm never going to die, like all of these things that are foundational and so I can deal with the rest of this stuff because my foundation is like, oh, I'm not, I'm not backing off any of this other stuff, like I'm forgiven, I'm free, so I can mess with this stuff and oh, oh, I need to think about this differently, I need to think about that differently. But I mean, this is five, five and a half years in of me just kind of understanding the gospel and like the ministry of the Holy Spirit and like the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just in the last week I've talked to two different people that I do believe know the gospel, they know they're free from sin but are in a crisis, and so, like, when I'm speaking to them and I feel like the topic here for the listeners is if God is calling you to disciple and support your brothers and sisters in Christ. Right, like for yourself, of course, like the Holy Spirit ministers truth, but I think, as how can we support our brothers and sisters who know the truth, but in a moment of distress, it's no longer heart knowledge, like they've lost a grip on reality, that they're no longer in the flesh, they're in the spirit Right, and so now they're consumed with what's in the flesh and they're living from fear, and they're angry and bitter at God Like this this is the lie that I perceived is angry and bitter that you know in how God is treating them, what's happening in their life, and so I was like I don't, I don't know what to say because it's, it's not a space where I can speak truth. Like their, their heart isn't positioned to receive truth, and so what? I'm literally like Holy Spirit, what do you want me to do, what do you want me to say? And he's like just listen and love them, because love and comfort is what any mother and father would do when their child is in distress, like if, when my son was angry and better, like he could barely even receive my comfort. I didn't even know what to do. I had to ask God and God told me if I pay him quarters, he will open up.
Speaker 2:And so in that moment, with these two individuals, I just listened and I even cried with them and I, I just, um, would offer them a hug and offer a prayer over them. Like, could I just say a prayer over you and just recognizing, like, um, sometimes we just need that comfort to calm down, but we're not ready to hear truth and and and being okay with that. And I guess in my learning what, why am I sharing this? Is because there was a time where I just would have been like, after the phone call or whatever it was, like, oh, they did. They weren't set free right Like, joy wasn't restored, their body didn't realign with the reality that they're a joyful, peaceful daughter, and I would have just been really upset about that, especially in early ministry back in Republic Missouri. Like, and God is like like I got this late. I told you what to do offer comfort. I don't need you to solve their problems, I don't need you to do anything else. I just sent you to participate in my love and that's it. That's it. I've got this.
Speaker 1:Praise God that he keeps growing us and molding us and teaching us and, uh, making wonders out of the blunders. Um cause, I mean, he's just merciful. He's merciful, he knows we're going after it because we've been loved by him, and he knows we're making mistakes, but he's just super merciful. Uh, what is it? What have you learned about marriage in these last few years? You learned anything about marriage? Nothing.
Speaker 2:you're laughing I'm laughing because, oh my goodness, marriage is hard people, it can be it can be oh, I love my husband. I have always loved my husband. I have always been confident. I might have had a couple of moments where I was like what were you thinking, god, we're so opposite.
Speaker 1:But and he's like you are the one who decided to marry him. He's like I blessed it. But that was on you, my girl, On you, I blessed it.
Speaker 2:But that was on you, my girl, that was on you. Yeah, like, like my husband is gone for 10 days right now and I'm just going to be honest with the audience, like I like right now we're just in this weird season. Like he quit, he's, he's a scientist, a PhD, he had this great job and then he just felt the Lord leading him to get licensed as a pharmacist. And my husband's just so smart and so driven.
Speaker 1:He's Cuban right.
Speaker 2:He's Cuban.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is there something about Cubans that they're just driven people?
Speaker 2:I have to have like three jobs. Like it's crazy, because you know they had to survive like yeah you know if you don't want to eat cats you better.
Speaker 1:You better open that book three jobs that'll learn something is free there.
Speaker 2:So everybody almost everybody gets a higher education and so, yeah, like, so he's earning money by doing these human trials and and so, um, it's definitely like depending on the lord, because the one last month that he signed up for it got canceled and we're just really in the space of like, okay, we're trusting god with our finances, we don't have to worry, we don't have to fear, right, god is't have to fear, right, god is our provider, and so, but of course, like, then he signed up for the seven day study and I'm like, honey, like seven days is my max, like cause the last one was 12 days and I'm like it's just too long.
Speaker 2:It's so hard to do this thing here with the kids for 12 days without you, and I'm like seven days, that's good. So I was really excited that the next one was going to be seven days. And then he found this other study for 10 days that paid more. He was like I ought to do this 10 day study and I'm like, no, and I don't want you to. I don't think God is saying that you should do this study.
Speaker 1:God told me that it's hard. He told me.
Speaker 2:You should not make me stay here by myself for 10 days.
Speaker 2:He said it and I, you know, I had a couple meltdowns Just like this, like fear. It was fear, Like I can't do it, I can't take care of the kids for 10 days by myself. And just really, I'm learning to keep things in the light, Like like, uh, you know, the more that I grow, the more I just keep it in the light Like cause. I would even mull on it for a couple of days of like I know I have fear and I surrender this fear of Jesus, but I'm not going to talk about it. And now I'm just like I'm learning to just talk about it. Get it out there, what he like someone will call me and he'll be like, tell them about your fear. And I'm like, oh, okay, fine, I'll think if I have to, and just get it in the light, keep things in the light.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I was like I felt abandoned by my husband, Like she's abandoned me here and and just all these lies and and so I didn't talk to him, let's, he went on Sunday and then we came back from the retreat and then my kids had all this homework and like homework is overwhelming for me. So then when the kids are like, oh, they don't want to do this homework. Then their feelings and all the drama, and then I'm like, okay, I don't want to do this homework, and now I really don't want to do it, because now they're all like upset about it. Um, but we got through it. Today is Wednesday and uh, yeah, God has just he always invites me to confess. And so I'm going to talk to my husband after this phone call. I talked to him yesterday and I was not kind. And then I said he's like you're being a little mean to me, Don't you think? And I was like, well, you called me, I didn't call you.
Speaker 1:He's going to listen to this later. He's like, oh okay, I get it.
Speaker 2:And then. And so then today he's like I'd really like to talk to my wife and he's so sweet and I'm like I'm just not ready because I want. You know, my mom's told me, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. But and this is literally like my husband is such a good son of the King and I'm so blessed and I'm just learning to trust God and trust that. This Psalm 118, do not put your trust in man, put your trust in the Lord. Do not put your trust in princes, put your trust in the Lord. And my husband is the prince in this kingdom. I'm the princess, or he's the king, and I'm the Lord. And my husband is the prince in this kingdom. I'm the princess, or he's the king and I'm the queen, but I don't put my trust in my husband. He is a man and we saw what happened with King David and we saw what happened?
Speaker 2:with King Solomon, the wisest king there ever was. I put my trust in God and Jesus Christ lives in my husband and, like I don't really like what he's doing but I trust that he's serving the King of Kings and I know Jesus has got me. I'm not alone here with the kids, it's me and Jesus and yeah, and just like it's so good for me. I think marriage the most important thing that I have learned about marriage is it's constant forgiveness. It constantly like I am fully forgiven. I walk in forgiveness. Why would I withhold that from my spouse? And that's not always easy. And yeah, I still get cranky and moody sometimes, but I would say we just move through things a lot quicker, like I used to, could hold on to something for like a whole week or like maybe even two, and yeah, we feel the feels very at an extreme level.
Speaker 1:I know I do um. And yet, while we're feeling the feels, I know that when I'm, when I'm acting out and I'm just being a little ornery, I know it. Before I thought I was owed something. And now, when I'm like I feel it and I don't like it and I I'm like ooh bro, like why. And I know you feel the same way too when you know, when you're acting like old Jadra, you're like ooh Jadra, you don't even like what you're doing. And I'm like in your mind, you're like, just stop right?
Speaker 2:No, I call myself out all the time. I am not being kind right now. Like you, better walk away. I think you need some time with Jesus. I need some time with Jesus.
Speaker 1:And I think that's amazing. And yeah, if you're not kind, go ahead and stop and be kind, and you know, sometimes it just takes a little bit of time. You need to go off and be alone for a second and have your body calm down. But he's given us that grace and he's loved us so well that we're not here to convince our spouse, we're not here to change our spouse. We're here to love our spouse.
Speaker 2:And I agree with them. Like, let me say this, this thing, because I was not gentle and gracious in what I believe. Let me tell you, I argued with my husband six ways from Sunday about why he should agree with the gospel, exactly how I agree with it. And what's so funny is like, over time, there's things that I realized like oh, this is what you were saying all along, but I just didn't get what you were saying because we were talking in different ways, realized like oh, this is what you were saying all along, but I just didn't get what you were saying because we were talking in different ways.
Speaker 2:And like I have really learned like don't argue, it is not worth it. Brothers and sisters, listening, if you are not in agreement about what is the gospel of Jesus Christ, like, do not argue, it is not our job to convince, convict, that is the Holy Spirit's work. And just gratitude, like gratitude for where they're at, if they believe in Jesus at all. If they don't, you know, that's a different story. Yeah, but just allowing the Lord to do that work and and I would say I didn't do that well, but I'm so thankful and where God has brought us we, we, we agree much more on more things now than we ever have. And whenever we get tempted to argue like it's not worth it, like let's shut it down, just agree to disagree. We think so differently and we can be saying the exact same thing but we'll still like argue about it because we just think so differently, our minds are so different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know I've been impressed and blessed to see you and Yaskali just growing. I know that Natalie and I are growing, Eddie and J-Lo are growing. I think everybody who's in this thing. We know we have the answer. It is Christ in us, the hope of glory, and if we make a mistake, we don't like it and it still feels bad because, like you said, unforgiveness is like drinking poison and when we're drinking that poison we're like, oh yeah, I know this flavor, this is not good, but we can stop and we can turn around and we can forgive and we can be forgiven and there's so much beauty in that. Is there anything else you want to hit before we take off that? You've just seen that God has just blessed you and brought you new understanding as you've been growing in this thing the last three years.
Speaker 2:I think the most important thing on this journey and the revelation I've just only had recently. Like, for example, like you and I, richard, we, we can say we, we know we agree about the gospel. Like I've heard you preach, I'm like, oh yeah, that's what I believe, but that doesn't mean we're going to agree on everything. Like there could be some things that you think that I don't agree with, and you know the list goes on and God has just really been putting in my heart recently, like again, psalm 118, and I'm sure it says it in a million places but like I don't put my trust in you, richard, like, yeah, I love you and you're my brother and your testimony literally changed my life. God sent you, but I love you as a brother and I know that you still have areas in your life that God is refining and I get to give you grace and love and, god willing, I'll have the courage to call you out if I see something that's just really like this is obviously outside of of who you are as a son, um, but that I could speak that in love, um, and and sometimes you know there's been things that have come up and it's like, oh, brother, like that is whack, like what, what? And then maybe you'll call it out and, and the Holy Spirit's like it's okay, what? And then maybe you'll call it out and the Holy Spirit's like it's okay.
Speaker 2:Like this is not a salvation issue for them right now, like I'm working on something else in their life that's more important than this thing that you don't agree with. Like they're believing that you know, I don't know we shouldn't wear shoes, that we should ground and never wear shoes again, and they're just like trying to get everybody to do it. And they're like I love Jesus, I'm free from sin, and you're like I think it's okay for people to wear shoes if they want to wear shoes, you know, and just being like that's okay, like I respect that, you're convicted on that. And if it is a salvation issue, obviously we call that out, but we do it in love. And then it's not up to us if they receive it and still being able to love them, even if they reject what we're saying and they don't receive it, and pray for them and trust that God is moving in the unseen realm.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going to take a quick break from this episode and I'm going to bring on my sister, Savannah. Savannah, what's going on? How are you feeling tonight?
Speaker 3:I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm so good. Quick question for you how long have you been loving this gospel freedom?
Speaker 3:in loving this gospel freedom the freedom part probably the past year, but the good gospel probably about two years.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, okay. What has?
Speaker 3:understanding this good gospel freedom done to change your life. Oh, my word, it's changed everything, in that I used to think that I could love people to the best of my own ability, and I have learned since then that I could only love them to the best of my ability. But that person has died and now Jesus lives in me, and so now I have the privilege of being able to love people to the best of his ability.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going to. We're going to get you love this so much that don't you have an episode on the death of life podcast.
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 1:Cause we're about to record it right after this. Okay, Next question you love this so much that you've dedicated time, energy, finances to keep this message getting out there. Why is that important that people hear this message to you? Why is it? Why is that important?
Speaker 3:Because it has turned my life upside down in the best way, and I think it's so important to share this message so that more and more people can hear it and that their lives can be changed as well.
Speaker 1:Man. So if you're listening to this and you know the deal, if you ever listened to these and I hope you do go to loverealityorg slash, to loverealityorg slash give, loverealityorg slash give, and every dollar that you give goes toward getting this message out there. We want people to hear the podcast, we want people on the Bible studies, we want you at internet church and every dollar goes to doing that. So, loverealityorg slash give. Hey, savannah. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, we're recording this. This is six days before the election. By the time this comes out, the election will have passed and there's probably a large percentage of our country that is very upset. And the thing is, we're here to love. We're like, at the end of all all of these epistles that Paul writes, like the first, the first 11 chapters of Romans is the theology, so that he can get to the pastoral call at the end. And the pastoral call at the end is like guys love each other.
Speaker 1:Don't argue with each other, don't split hairs. In In Romans 14, he's talking about holy days and arguing and quarreling about holy days and what people eat, and he's like guys, just don't, just love each other, don't look down on each other, and that's the thing They'll know. We're Christians, by the way. We love each other, and so I'm certain that there are things that we disagree on. On the important things. Like you and I have had some real conversations in the last few years, and they're good, even if it's uncomfortable, because if you have something to say to me that I haven't been doing correctly, while I'm not a big fan of doing things incorrectly, I need to hear it, and vice versa. But I can hear it from you because I know it's coming from love and that's what the body of Christ is.
Speaker 1:If you're not coming from a place of love, it's not going to be easy for me to swallow. I might not be able to take it. That's right, and so, at the end of the day, I know that when I get to heaven, I'm going to be wrong about something theological. I don't know. I'm sure there's going to be a lot. That's not the reason why I'm going to be in heaven, so, as long as it's not on Christ and him crucified, we should hold all these other things with an open hand and love each other and be kind with one another, because if we're not, we're just a. We're a clanging gong, we're a cracking cymbal, like no one's going to hear us, and and then our testimony is weak because we actually weren't transformed by his love that's right love has.
Speaker 2:So when you like, we're talking about unforgiveness and bitterness and something's coming to your mind, some person's face, there's no but, but she did this to me and he did that and he just isn't listening to God. Like, no, no buts. Like, lay it down, lay it down, lay it down, lay it down. It's just not worth it. Like, we in our identity were designed to love and you're only free to love if it's the same love we've been given infinite grace and forgiveness. That's the only kind of love we want to walk by. Praise God, all glory to Jesus.
Speaker 1:Praise the Lord. I've only been to your Bible study a few times. I'm usually working, but every time I've gone it's this kind of conversation. You're very transparent, you're very open. If there's something that you're struggling in, you're like, hey guys speak life over this, and then you're always free to speak life over other people. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your Bible study, about your podcast and anything else you want to plug, before we call it a night?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. So Thursday morning, citrus, standard Time, 10 am, we look at mental health through the lens of the gospel. So I definitely think I've been called to minister especially to people that have any history of abuse or trauma or mental health. But I think we have people pop on there all the time and we talk a lot about intimacy with God, discerning God's voice, and so that would be everything that the podcast is the Worthy of Everything podcast saying, just really highlighting how do we walk out intimacy with God? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:We're all unique, which means God has a unique relationship with you as an individual. He knows you, he speaks to you in a special way, and we all have identity, share identity as sons and daughters and this is coming from Jamie Winship but we also have a unique identity that describes us and how God is moving in you and through you, and so, yeah, we're working on season two. So, yeah, we're working on season two. Things move slower than I, like God has had to set me free from some lies recently, but we're really hoping to start season two very, very soon, soon and very soon.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, jadra, you're obviously very special to me, I think in the same way like Michaela is probably special to you. And so I've just seen, like I said, I've seen your growth. You're my sister in Christ. You're always an encouragement to me and my family. You're the mom of the year. You're killing it. If you had to do all these 10 days in one day, I would be a little worried for you, but I know that he's giving you just enough for tomorrow and you're going to kill it because I know you love those kids. And so thank you for being open and sharing tonight. This has been a huge blessing, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, richard. I just love you so much and love what this podcast has done in my life and will keep doing, and I am so thankful for any opportunity to talk about Jesus and his amazing goodness.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. Man, jadra and I have been great friends these last few years. We're making up for lost time, of all those years where we really didn't like each other, and being able to receive counsel from her, able to just hear her heart. I've just grown in my estimation for her and what the Holy Spirit is doing in her life. And if you are searching for growth, if you're like, yeah, I understand, I'm free from sin, but I need, I want to grow in this area, then this prayer is for you, father in heaven. Father in heaven, I still want to get after this thing. I want every bit of grace available to me in Jesus Christ. Keep showing me what I have with your son. Keep showing me the gentleness I can walk in, the patience that I have, the love that I can pour out on those near me, and I will keep my ears open to hear and to understand what your Holy Spirit is doing in my life. I'm praying these things in Jesus's name.
Speaker 1:Amen, man, going into the new year if you're listening to this, in december of 2024, uh, we're about to pop stuff off in the new year. Um, one of the things I want to highlight is that justin and I are doing a free from porn. I don't know if that's going to be the name of it, but it is going to be. Uh, it's going to be great and we're going to be breaking down freedom from pornography in the new year, so keep your eyes peeled for that. Obviously, we would love if you partnered with us. We're giving all of this away for free and we would love for you to partner with us so we can keep doing it for free, so you can go to loverealityorg, slash, give and hook it up. Love y'all, appreciate y'all. Bye.