Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#200 Tyler and Morgan Part 2! Back At It Again!
This episode dives into Tyler and Morgan's transformative journey from Hawaii to Portland, exploring themes of faith, submission, and the unexpected challenges of new parenthood. They share candid stories and lessons about navigating marriage, ministry, and personal integrity, all while celebrating the incredible news of their pregnancy.
• Reflecting on their time in Hawaii during the pandemic
• Emphasizing the tension between freedom and submission
• Tyler’s struggles with personal integrity and temptation
• Morgan’s challenges surrounding the concept of motherhood
• Power of confession and vulnerability in marriage
• Surprising news of Morgan's pregnancy
• Encouragement for listeners to trust God’s plan in uncertainty
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Speaker 2:And so it was very easy for me because there was like this element I have a say. Whereas leaving Hawaii, god was like time for your lesson and submission. I'm not going to tell you anything, I'm only going to give these dreams to Tyler and you're going to learn to trust my will as given through your husband. So he hits me again with a why don't you want to go? And I was like I just have not felt any word from the Lord that we need to do that. And he says have you asked? And I was like no. And he was like why not?
Speaker 1:And I said no, and he was like, why not? And I said yo, welcome to the death of life podcast. This is episode 200. Episode 200 of the podcast. Who would have thought Not me, not me. And uh, man, it's kind of a big deal. And uh, I'm very excited to say that our guest is Tyler and Morgan. Uh, they are back again. I think the last time they were on was, I think, tyler. Tyler has been on on the Bible draft and Morgan's interviewed a few people here, but the last time they were on together was a long time ago and things have changed since we left Morgan and Tyler and it has been some really good. There's been some growth. You're going to hear all about it in this episode.
Speaker 1:This is one of my favorites. I love them so much and I love the edification of this story. I love their lives. They're like my favorite people and seeing how God is working in their lives, you're going to be blessed by it. You're going to be encouraged by it. So buckle up and strap in for episode 200 of the Death of Life podcast. Tyler and Morgan, let's go, oregon, let's go. It's kind of crazy. Tyler, you were number one and 200 episodes later. You're still bald, but you have a mustache now.
Speaker 3:I do. I have a mustache. I've got some creepy-looking glasses. I live in Portland, oregon, which we're probably going to talk about how we ended up here. Yeah, probably going to talk about it. Yeah, up here. Yeah, probably talk about it. Oh yeah, a lot has changed.
Speaker 2:And yet, where are we Like? Weren't we in quarantine?
Speaker 3:in.
Speaker 2:Hawaii, when we, when you recorded- yeah, we were in quarantine.
Speaker 3:We had just moved to Hawaii. Wow, I don't know if you were in quarantine. Well, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was when it was required, like in the knee-deep COVID days.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. So we were right in the middle of it was October of 2020. So that was when you looked at somebody and you got COVID Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You looked at somebody wrong and you lost toilet paper. Somebody came into your house and they took toilet paper from you and they're like in your face.
Speaker 2:I hate when I laugh this hard at Richard. I hate it.
Speaker 1:That's what it was. It was a wild time to be alive, but now we're here. Okay, so if this is your first time listening to the that's A Life podcast and you're listening to this episode, I'm sure it'll be a blessing to you, but it would probably be in your best interest to listen to episode number one, episode number two and then episode was it four or five? Four, because that's where the foundation of this story is at. Real quick recap Tyler Morgan, marriage, porn, deceitfulness, victory, jesus, life, transformation, healing, love all of these things within a half hour.
Speaker 1:Obviously, that was actually over a year and when we left off with you guys, you guys were, you had moved to Hawaii, living in freedom, and, as I was, I did a podcast with um, a girl, and she was just talking about when I understood freedom, when I met, and I was just thinking about that, because we used to talk about freedom I mean, we still talk about freedom all the time but we used to just consider freedom like in everything, how we moved, how we talked, like, oh, I thought like we're operating out of freedom now, like if someone was operating out of some old chains or some old whatever. Uh, morgan would hop out behind a bush and say I thought you were operating in freedom. Now, what's up with freedom, bro? And so, like this was, this is what we were about. Y'all remember this.
Speaker 1:Y'all remember freedom I remember it, I do recall and that's where we left off, and you guys were just operating out of freedom in hawaii, but differently, because tyler you're a pastor at a church and morgan you're a pastor's wife, right, uh, and also doing p, doing PT and all this other stuff or I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's not PT, but the thing you were doing. You're right there, she's an occupational therapist. I wish you knew my wife Doing OT.
Speaker 1:Talk to me. What was that like? How was life treating you? What was the next move? What did God do? Talk to me, let me go to Tyler, and then we're going to go to Morgan, being a pastor on the island of Oahu. What were you learning about freedom? What were you learning about ministering? What was that whole season like?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good. I'll try to answer that succinctly because I think for the sake of time we're going to want to zoom to the end of Hawaii. But it was really a meaningful period of time, rich. I was a lay pastor, like a volunteer lead elder of a small church, pastoring I was young and most of the church was not. I was a white American like mainlander, while most of the church was not. They're local Hawaiians and uncles and aunties, and so culturally there was like a season of just literally how do we serve and build trust and relationships. And then probably like when it comes to the sake of the gospel I know Morgan has often said that we're really grateful for that period of time because it felt like every single week trying to explain the gospel, that changed my life over and over and over.
Speaker 3:There was a lot of like atypical communication in our church, whether it's somebody doesn't know how to read, uh, or they have had a traumatic brain injury, and so their communication level is just a lot um more akin to like a like a fourth grader or fifth grader maybe, or something like that.
Speaker 3:I don't know. It's just different levels of communication and so. And then there's also like the typical frustration of like I don't understand what you're saying. The member is saying I don't get what you're saying, this seems new, I'm a little wary of it, or I'm a lot wary of it. And so to be able to just grow in love and then try to communicate the gospel week in and week out, from every little opposition, like every different kind of argument or maybe I don't know disagreement angle that there could be, so it just kind of helped to be questioned and challenged regularly by some of the same people that could see my heart towards them. I wasn't just a stranger on the internet but doing life with them and it was really helpful for fortifying, I think, and galvanizing the gospel. That has changed my life and my heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were living in that house. Jonathan was living with you guys for a while. Was it just like ministry, one-on-one, like through a fire hydrant, like you were learning a ton?
Speaker 3:In a real way. Okay, so, ministry wise, yeah, it was a little hard for me because there wasn't a lot to do. You know, it was the middle of COVID, so a lot of times we were just hanging out. We lived in Hawaii. The island was mostly shut down. We're going to the beach, we're swimming, we're snorkeling, we're having a good old time, and then I'm spending most of my day just hanging out with Jonathan and I'm feeling kind of anxious because I'm like, what do I do with my day? Like I just came out of a sales type environment where all day long I'm like trying to crank out enough output to make money for my company to now I'm sitting on a beach and in a really beautiful way.
Speaker 3:That, especially that first year in Hawaii, was like a little bit of a honeymoon that God gave to Morgan and I like this is right after she received healing and transformation and freedom in Jesus. Our marriage is reconciled, it's brand new, and so for the over the course of the year, jonathan's living with us, I'm learning, I'm asking him questions, I'm getting like a really awesome crash course theology kind of teaching from Jonathan over the course of that year and we're just hanging out and our relationship is being kind of forged in this new life and I think Morgan can probably speak to the more social elements of what it was like those three years living on Oahu together, but ministry-wise that's what it was. And then we started hanging out, so we had our friends that we were ministering with and to, and then we had our church, which was kind of separated from that. And then I started teaching history at the Adventist Academy on the island while Morgan was working at the Women's and children's hospital as an occupational therapist.
Speaker 1:Uh, but yeah, that was. It was really really sweet and awesome and a gift from the lord. Oh boy, was it. Morgan? You sounded like when I talked to you it was like you were living your dream come true, like Like you were with a dolphin. Most of the time I would. You would pick up, you'd be like hold on flippers for real, like you were literally with a dolphin and I was, and it just sounded like you were living your best life. What was that like, was it? What did it look like?
Speaker 2:Listen, it was literally the greatest gift I have ever received. I cannot believe it. I look back at those three years and I'm like that's real, Like that was just how we lived, that's how God set us up to be for those years, just for learning, like, just to grow in intimacy with each other and to grow in intimacy with him and to grow in what it means to share the gospel and to not to share it but to be the gospel, like to actually live as we were created to live. And I got to do it in a beach house. That's dumb. Like this is the greatest thing ever. I like I couldn't even believe it and people were like, is it just normal? Do you just like wake up and you're like I'm like this will never be normal, this is not normal. I cannot believe that. This is the way I get to live. And so, yeah, living there for the time that we were there was truly the sweetest, most incredible gift, Number one just because of the land itself, like the land is a gift, just the yeah, and should be treated as such. And the people were truly just such, such, such gifts to us. And here's something.
Speaker 2:Here's something I learned after I left, uh, this paradise that was Ka'ava. Um, I was getting a little too comfy. I was a little too comfortable living for myself and I didn't know that it was happening, because it seemed like living according to the gospel and ministering the gospel was the priority. But looking back after we left it, the last 18 months, I would say, were really leaning. I like this and I'm going to live the way I want to live. So if I want to surf, that's going to be how I prioritize my time. If I want to go hiking, that's what I'm going to. If I want to swim with these dolphins for the fifth time, that's how I'm going to prioritize my time. And I became very like protective quote unquote of my time because Hawaii had so much to offer that I wanted to do, and so that became the priority.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did that sneak in? I mean, you don't know how it sneaks into you, I think.
Speaker 3:I think one of the elements is that we both got like full-time job busy.
Speaker 2:For sure, yeah, yeah, that was a turning point, so.
Speaker 3:Morgan's working at a hospital full time every day, and then I'm working at a high school three days a week and then I'm still doing the church thing. And so then it became this thing where we're driving 35 minutes into town, into Honolulu, every day and then we're doing the church on Saturdays. And so it just became this thing where it's like, if we have time, kind of like scarcity, creeps in where it's like, well, we want to hang out with the people. We want to hang out with Not necessarily the people God's calling us to minister to on a weeknight, like if it's going to be inconvenient for us to drive across the Island for a Bible study, or we could just go home and have dinner and watch the sunset Beach house yeah.
Speaker 3:Go for a walk on the beach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it just became. It became really easy to live for ourselves. Yeah, I would say oopsie, and we were.
Speaker 3:So we just kind of keep riding this train on these tracks. We're gonna keep telling the story and do it. We ended up by november of 2023, maybe I think I don't 2022. We, we basically were like let's keep living here, like let's start looking for isn't that always the way when you have this thought, I think I'm finna.
Speaker 1:live here for a minute, yeah, like that's when you know, oh, I'm moving this year. Like no, seriously, like I remember at maplewood, I turned to Natalie I'm like we ain't never leaving this boy's dorm. We're going to be here forever Long hauling it. We were gone. Within three months, we were gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what happened, like moving out there, we had no idea how long we were going to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my parents came out for Thanksgiving that year and I remember telling my dad or maybe it was at Christmas or something I'm like, yeah, I think we're going to live here for a while, like maybe eight to 10 years or something like that. And then a couple of weeks later I was just praying, journaling, secret placing, and I remember just getting like this impression that one of the things God's called me to do is encourage people who are in ministry positions. So I'm like, okay, cool. And then I go to a prayer meeting at Jonathan's church and I go to the bathroom.
Speaker 3:On my way back from the bathroom I have like this weird I don't really know how to describe it. It's kind of like a vision, except for I didn't like stop walking and like I'm in a trance and looking at images, so much as it was like memories and thoughts that I had had and like a weird feeling and sensation that all hit in a split second, leaving me feeling with this, like leaving me with this overwhelming feeling that whenever Morgan and I left Oahu, it would be to go to Portland, Oregon, where I would do ministry at Pleasant Valley Church with Kessie Arane Bennett, who's one of the interviews you've done. So I texted Morgan. I'm like, babe, this is weird, but I think if we ever leave, it's going to be to go to PVC with Kessie Arane Bennett. And for people who don't know, PVC is Pleasant Valley Church. It's where the Wave One sermon series that's on YouTube was preached back in 2018 and 19, I think Morgan replied.
Speaker 2:You're right.
Speaker 3:Hope not.
Speaker 2:You're right. I am never leaving, first of all, if we leave or no. I'm not leaving here. I was like you and your suitcase are going to Portland. Who's we? Who's we?
Speaker 1:You got a mouse in your pocket. Is that? Who's that? Who's we? We, we Are you French? Now, Like what is? Two jokes in a row?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so then I was like, well, if it is from the Lord, then I guess we'll see. Like they don't have any pastoral positions open or anything like that. Like they just got a new pastor, I don't think anything's going to be changing. And then three weeks later I got a text from Kessie Rain saying I'm going to have an opening this summer for an intern pastoral position. Could I put your name in? And I got like I was laying in bed next to Morgan when I got it and I got like goosebumps because it's like it was so specific I wasn't seeking it out. She didn't know that I'd had this like moment and I told Morgan and she would just quiet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like, maybe if I don't respond, it's like it didn't happen. I love avoiding.
Speaker 3:And so fast forward, like over the next three months. Basically we were like, yeah, you can put our name in for it. And then it was a difficult three months because essentially, like I keep getting more and more affirmations Like this is where we're supposed to go. This is absolutely from the Lord. I don't really want to leave. I don't even necessarily want to go to Portland, even though I like Portland and I like PVC and I like Kessie O'Rean. I just feel confident all the way up to the point where, when it was time to make a decision, I realized that a dream that I had had that was part of this vision that I'd had in Jonathan's church, that dream that contributed to this call to Portland. I had actually had it two years ago, to the day of making the decision to go to Portland, Like it had come to this fruition and it was just like so many things affirming for me that the Lord was absolutely making it abundantly clear we're supposed to go to this church.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile, Morgan's like let me say this Okay, you, uh, we had had a couple of conversations about it and I was always like send it, bro, like three years seems to be like a good time to be somewhere. And I was like this is like where else would you want to be? If you're going to do ministry, this would be the bomb. And I'll say, morgan, it wasn't exactly like our communication when you and Tyler had broken up and we didn't speak for a year and a half or a half a year. But it wasn't not like that either. No, it was kind of like that. It was kind of like you were not interested in talking about these things and I was like something's, uh, she's, she, she perhaps is not feeling this in a deeper way than just, oh, this is a tough one. It felt pretty heavy, didn't?
Speaker 2:it, didn't it? Yeah, at one point, jonathan, we were over at his house and he came up to me and this was not like at this point there were conversations about Tyler's name being put in the mix. But it wasn't like, okay, we're going. But I guess the conversations Tyler had been having with people like you Jonathan, justin and Eddie seemed more like exactly what you just said Like yeah, do it go, like this seems like the right thing. And Jonathan comes and he's like Jonathan and I, we prefer to like keep it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And he like got really serious with me and he was like hey, I just want to let you know, like these three years of doing ministry together, I've just been like and I tried to have this like serious moment with me and I literally was so angry I can't even tell you like who, who, who thinks they've made this decision for me? I'm not moving. Like why is everyone so sure that we're moving to Portland, oregon for Tyler to work at Pleasant? I was so agitated and if it smells like loss of control, that's exactly what was going on. I was so angry that Well, for a couple of reasons. Number one I was angry because it felt like I was being very clear, I'm not going to do that and that that was not being received seriously. You know what I mean. Um sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:But the elephant in the room is is freedom right? That's the elephant that's in the room. So would you glance at that elephant? Or were you like I don't want to see him right now, like yeah, here's the problem.
Speaker 2:Like all of the little steps towards living for myself in Hawaii created this like firm foundation of just like, oh no, I'm going to live here, like I am not going to submit to this plan that you feel has been so clearly given to you, because for the last 18 months I've been living pretty comfortably for me and so I'm just going to keep building off that cute little foundation.
Speaker 2:That newsflash was a sandy ground so, yeah, it wasn't even something I can acknowledge or I could acknowledge as me, living according to patterns of former ignorance. It was just like nope, this is autonomy, I'm choosing not to do this thing. And it was really, really, really bad. I would say I was really resentful towards Tyler, but then knew that was wrong, and so then I would just avoid conversations with him and would avoid conversations with you or anybody else who wanted to talk to me about it, because it was just not on my to-do list. So eventually, what ends up happening is we get to a point where now we have to decide, like PVC has expressed their desire to hire Tyler and they give us a very long window to decide I would say longer than typical.
Speaker 1:I don't know what is typical Usually it's like two weeks.
Speaker 3:That's usual it was basically like a month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a like six weeks, I would say.
Speaker 3:Probably yeah.
Speaker 2:And so for six weeks, I think I'm just going to ride this wave. I'm just going to like be super avoidant in the conversation and then just be occasionally clear that I don't want to do it, and hopefully we'll just pass this and it'll be over, and then we'll keep living our perfect little lives here in Oahu. Um and Tyler was super persistent, and this being the thing that we were supposed to do, and so it came to a point.
Speaker 3:I was like cautiously persistent. I was like, uh, babe, so like have you prayed about it?
Speaker 2:and she'd be like no I don't need to pray about it. I don't need to pray. There's clarity for me. I'm not moving.
Speaker 3:She's like I don't want to go, so I don't need to pray about it and actually that makes sense, though for real I mean it does and this is.
Speaker 3:This is so. There's a verse that I think is going to be. This is our theme verse at PVC. We have it on a banner on our stage. First Peter, 2.16, or maybe it's 2.18, but it's live then as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover up for evil, but submitting yourself as slaves unto God. And I think a lot of times I've noticed in our freedom communities that there's this thing where it's like we get freed from this like heavy religiosity and like legalism and like burdens of insecurity of our salvation and stuff like that, and then it's like we're free. We're free to be us, and it's like the life in freedom is a life of slavery. It's just not a life of slavery to sin. The life in freedom is a life of slavery, it's just not a life of slavery to sin.
Speaker 3:The life in freedom is a life of slavery to righteousness, and so there was a little bit of that happening throughout our time in Hawaii, where it was this gradual descent into freedom to live in a way that feels good. But a life of freedom is not necessarily like sometimes it feels great, but a life of freedom is not necessarily like sometimes it feels great. But also, to follow Jesus is to also be very uncomfortable and to allow him to lead us into places that are uncomfortable for the sake of righteousness and for the sake of the kingdom. And so this idea of like I don't want to go and I'm free, so I don't need to go. God is good if I'm here, god is good if I'm there. That's true, unless the Lord has said go.
Speaker 3:And so this was like kind of the battle that was going on and for her it's like I don't want to go, so it's that thing. For me it's the same old pattern of my wife doesn't want to go, so maybe do I even know what God wants us to do? Like there's agreement in the body, right? So if God has told me and she doesn't want to go, then is this even like how do. I know that it's right. So it was like pressing on my old things of insecurity, like needing Morgan to validate in order to be obedient and just be confident. I kept wavering back and forth, rich, I don't know if you remember me talking to you, but I was like I'm super confused and you're like, well, let's cast out a spirit of confusion super confused and you're like well, let's cast out a spirit of confusion and we pray.
Speaker 1:You were confused. I was like this is not confusing, bro. Like I was like you know what's up right now. It's just hard. Yeah, that can be really hard.
Speaker 3:the hard part was that morgan wasn't on board, like what does that mean if my wife's in freedom too, and like and I'm in freedom, but now we're not on the same page, then am I wrong? And she's very confident that she's right. And so then it was just like it was coming to a head and it eventually ended up being that the morning I was supposed to make a decision, I said I called Kessie Rain and I said we're still not on the same page. Morgan had basically said do whatever you want and slam the door on her way out to work.
Speaker 1:And I was like good drama. You know what I mean Great drama. Yeah, hold on. Before you answer, before you tell this part of the story, I think there's something we can unpack here. What do you do when you're aiming to walk in freedom? I think of what Dan says. Dan says I wake up for his great name, like I don't wake up for myself. Part of freedom is freedom from self-centeredness, freedom from self-serving. So when you wake up for his great name, you know.
Speaker 1:Second Corinthians five says that those who have died do not live for themselves. Right, our life's purpose is completely different. Now, what do you do when both of you guys are like purpose is completely different. Now, what do you do when both of you guys are like that's what we're about, but it isn't what you're about. And now, being on well, spoiler alert, they go to the other side of this. But what if? What kind of counsel would you give to somebody who's like man? My spouse or my kids are like? We all think we're rocking with freedom, but there is a self-centered spirit. That is that we're dealing with right now, but the elephant in the room is freedom.
Speaker 3:You have anything.
Speaker 4:Go ahead.
Speaker 3:The one of the things that I think maybe also learned from Dan is that sometimes, uh, we get being right right confused with being righteous. And it gets really confusing when being righteous is the thing that we feel like we're right about. You know what I'm saying? So, because I'm righteous, I'm the righteousness of God in Christ, then it's like well, if you disagree with me, then you're wrong, like so then are you no longer like if you're not living in freedom then and you're not agreeing with me, like we start to use our position then as the litmus test of whether or not somebody else is in agreement. And it's one of the things that hit me this morning. I don't know if that's going to make sense, but maybe it'll make sense in light of what I ended up doing, which is that I was very torn.
Speaker 3:I really believe 100% that this is where we're supposed to go, but I really also believe that I'm called to be a husband to Morgan as the primary ministry of my life before being a minister to a church. I think that there's an order to these things and that's a value that has been instilled in me that I believe is in alignment with scripture. So I'm like what do I do? She says do whatever you want. Do I make her move. And what hit me is that I can stand firm in the revelation, like I believe God called us to Portland, but I also believe he's called me to be with my wife. And so I called Cassie Rain and I said we're not on the same page and so we're going to have to decline so you guys can move forward with whatever you need to do. And I had peace in knowing that I could stand firm, that God had asked us to go and I wasn't going to tell Morgan, like I said no, because I think you're right, I think that we were.
Speaker 3:We are called to go, but it is better for me to do the wrong thing with you than to do the right thing over and above you.
Speaker 3:And I think that where I got that from is Jesus, who enters into our broken state of humanity for the sake of actually bringing us into unity with God, seeing it not as something to be grasped or held onto, and descends even to the point of death on a cross for the sake of actually then elevating us to the throne with the father. And so I saw that as what the answer was. It's like sometimes it's the right thing to do is to lay down your life and do the thing that you think is wrong with the person that you're called to be one with for the sake of that. Like that's what laying your life down looks like, and so my advice, I think, is often just if it's not endangering the life of somebody, then sometimes what you got to do is go with the person that you think is going the wrong way, but maintain your position, maintain your heart in righteousness, like you have to do that. Does that make sense? What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:It definitely makes sense, and you and I are so different.
Speaker 3:Okay, go.
Speaker 2:In our answers, cause my answer is like correct them. Correct them immediately.
Speaker 1:It's giving high horse.
Speaker 2:And this is why it's so good for Tyler and I to be married with one another. Do one another, because it's a good balance, because I would say the gift being on the other side of that as someone who was moving according to patterns of former ignorance and who was using my selfishness, I mean who was using my freedom as an opportunity to serve myself. The gift for me was being surrounded by people who were correcting me according to the gospel, and they were doing it in love, for sure, but there was definitely correction happening.
Speaker 1:And that's the gift you could feel the correction from tyler, even though, like there was no mystery on what tyler thought was correct, totally. But he wasn't holding it over your head guilting you into it. He was just like.
Speaker 3:I believe we should do this um, I didn't say that until the very end, though not to her, but you, she, you knew right, I mean tell me did.
Speaker 2:I know that tyler thought that it was wrong that I didn't want to go did you know that tyler thought that you guys should go oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you would keep tossing like dreams around, like I just dream. Yeah, yeah, I'm like okay, what am I supposed to do? And I remember responding of just like hey, you don't know what that dream means. No, your response actually can't. Dreams rhyme. I had this dream. I'm like okay, what am I supposed to do? And I remember responding of just like hey, you don't know what that dream means.
Speaker 3:No, your response actually can't be said on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Okay, so eventually we get to the point. So Tyler says no to cast your rain. He texts me while I'm at work. I told them no and, like praise the lord, god is good we've got more time on oahu and I'm super relieved and I can just go about my life, go about my day. And I get home and this bald eagle is so mad at me. He's so grumpy literally.
Speaker 1:You thought it was just over, you thought it was just cool. You're driving home and you're, you think everything's cool.
Speaker 2:Oh, literally I that's wild, because I was so sure it was right. I was so sure she didn't care.
Speaker 3:She like literally could not care less. Well, I did not care about portland, that's correct. I just got all up in my feels she hadn't replied. She brought sylvia home with her, so then we couldn't talk about it like there's somebody in our house and I know that it seems that that's what I did.
Speaker 2:I brought Sylvia home because we always hung out.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying you did it on purpose, it's just like we couldn't talk about it. So I was irritated about that and then it just like I think what it? What it was on a spiritual level was that we weren't in agreement, no, no, and so we descended into the same kind of old relational patterns that we had before. Totally, god changed our hearts so that's bad.
Speaker 2:Tyler is a grumpy little guy all weekend. And then finally, um, sylvia leaves and I'm like, okay, are we gonna talk about this? And he's like I don't even remember what you said it was just it was, there was I was like, yeah, I, literally.
Speaker 3:As soon as Sylvia was gone, I was like, okay, now let's like, yeah, we can talk about this, but we weren't in the same area, so, anyways, we finally sit down to talk and what ends up happening? I'm like literally don't know what to do. Like I'm just like we can't be treating each other like this. I don't care if we're here or there, like I like living in Hawaii. So I don't know what I'm even upset about. Really, I just know this is unacceptable. If we stay here, if we go, we don't treat each other like this. This can't be our marriage. And I don't remember how we got there, but essentially the main thing, as I was praying, I'm just like God, I literally don't know what to do. Like how do I, what do I say? And the only thing that kept running through my mind is Morgan needs to pray.
Speaker 2:Yeah, morgan needs to pray. So he hits me again with a why don't you want to go? And I was like I just have not felt any word from the Lord that we need to do that. And he says have you asked? And I was like no. And he was like why not? And I said because you want me to. And he was like yeah, and what is that? I was like pride, okay, it's pride. And he was like yeah, and you're free from that. So ask him like, pray about it. And I'm like, oh, so I do.
Speaker 2:We pray about it, sitting there on the couch together, and the Lord brings to my angry brain one of my patients that I had been working with on adaptability, flexibility and obedience, this little five-year-old. And he brings this little girl to my mind and he brings the words I used during an appointment with her, where I said like when your parents want you to come inside after your playtime is over, they're calling you in because they love you and they know what's best for you, and so they know that you need to have dinner and you need to go to bed so that you can play with your friends the next day. So we were like we're working on obeying our parents, and dah dah, dah because she had previously been screaming and clinging to her little toys no, I'm never going to come inside. And so we were working on when we hear the call to come in, how do we respond? And so the Lord brings this little munchkin to my mind and he says it's time to come inside, it's time to put your toys down.
Speaker 2:And I was so sad because it was like it was time for me to obey, like to hear the call to come inside for my playtime with my surfboard and my dolphins, and it was time to obey, even though it did not match my heart's desire. And so I said that to Tyler, or I just I expressed the like what he had just brought to my mind and kind of like what it meant for me. And then he called Cassiier in the next day. Yeah, however, that went down, I'm not really sure. So then we were like okay, I guess we're moving, because the only ground that I had to stand on as far as like why we should stay in Hawaii is I want to. You know what I'm saying. As it turns out simply not strong enough, babes. So we had to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your ground was like it's the most beautiful place in the world and sometimes that's we. We came to visit you. Our only time to visit Hawaii was, like on the last weeks of your guys' time there, and bless you guys. You guys love us because we're having, like, our 15th year anniversary and you guys are are moving out um, it was, but we got to, yeah, we got to see.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean it's not hard, right. It doesn't mean like moving I just helped somebody move this week. Moving is crazy hard and it's all these emotions and they all get you know, they're building up to when you're leaving and it it's certainly hard, but that doesn't mean that God didn't bless and God wasn't moving. And even if I mean Portland's nice, even if it's not as beautiful as Hawaii, it doesn't mean that God's not leading right Totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the thing Like when it became clear that God was leading us to Hawaii. It was so easy for me to trust.
Speaker 1:He's leading me to the dolphins.
Speaker 2:It's obvious Someone's got to do it. So it was easy for me for a couple of reasons. Number one, because I was presented with the idea first and it was Hawaii, and so it was very easy for me because there was like this element of like I feel as though I have a say, whereas leaving Hawaii, god was like time for your lesson in submission. I'm not going to tell you anything, I'm only going to give these dreams to Tyler, like he's going to be the only one receiving, like phone calls and text messages and like a hefty dose of clarity and you're going to learn to trust my will as given through your husband.
Speaker 2:That was the hardest lesson in freedom I had experienced up to that point, because it was very easy for me to say that I was submitted to God when his plan was very clearly outlined to me, but then when his plan for me was outlined in somebody that I was submitted to God, when his plan was very clearly outlined to me, but then when his plan for me was outlined in somebody that I had to then submit to whoa, I was not a fan Zero out of 10 did I enjoy that experience, but it has been so, so fruitful in my life, because I know because the Bible says so that God's plans for me are good and I know that being submitted to him is the best thing for me.
Speaker 2:I know that me laying down my control and not living according to those patterns of former ignorance is the best thing for me. And so if that means that I don't get to live in my dream literal dream life anymore, then that is good for me. And that was very hard, that was a difficult lesson, but now here we are on the other side of it. Newsflash it gets a lot worse before it gets better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so why don't you? Did you want to say anything else about that, Tyler? No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Why don't you carry on with the story from there, morgan? Because we had Tyler started out. Yeah, what happens next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So we get to Portland and I know, I know in my brain that it is the right thing, because God told me that it was time for me to obey and it was time for me to move. But I was so bitter and very depresso about leaving everyone behind. It was a dark moment and we were living with our friend, sweet, sweet Sophie, which was a huge gift for number one, just like housing purposes, to like get settled in a place and to like learn the area before we actually move into a house. So that was a gift in itself. But then also she was a gift to me because I was just really, really sad and so to be near her was a gift. So we were in her home and it's so crazy because all of the spirals in our marriage start with me trying to have sex.
Speaker 2:Always, literally, the first time around happened because I was trying to have sex and Tyler was like no, and then I was like there's something wrong with you. And then now fast forward three years or whatever it is. I'm trying to have sex, even in my depressed state. I'm like three years or whatever it is, I'm I'm trying to have sex, even in my depressed state I'm like you know what? Let's do this. This seems like a good time and Tyler has this real fear response with me and he's just like no, no, no, no. And I immediately feel awful. Obviously I'm like I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:So then the next day, or I don't know how long it was, after that, Well, yeah days okay, um, he just says hey, I'm really sorry about the way I responded to you, and then I can't remember exactly what you well.
Speaker 3:So I have this weird fear response and as morgan like rolls over and she's like all right and goes to bed, I feel bad. I'm like what's wrong, like what's wrong with me. So I'm praying and I'm like God, we need to talk about this. Then I fall asleep and in the morning I'm praying and I'm like God, do I have some like maybe repressed memories of like sexual trauma or something like this, like why did I respond fearfully with my wife in this way, with my wife in this way? And God swiftly answered me in my thoughts just like no, absolutely not. You have no repressed memories of the sort. And the next thing that he said to me was if you treat your body shamefully, don't be surprised when you have shame around your body. Like it was a shame response.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so he says that to me and I'm like, well, wait a minute, what do you mean? Like, what sorts of shameful things I feel like I've heard this story before.
Speaker 2:It doesn't seem familiar. I was like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like we're years into this. What are you talking about? Like, what have you been doing? And then he confesses participation in patterns of former ignorance related to the porns. And I was so angry because just sexual morality makes me very angry as it is, but I was super angry in that moment because I was supposed to trust you.
Speaker 2:This whole move and my life being turned upside down, hinges on you living according to the spirit and walking in step with your true identity, according to the gospel. This all hinges on me trusting that you know the voice of the Lord, that you know who you are according to the Holy Spirit. All of this hinges on that confidence that I had, which is why I made that decision. And now you're telling me that you've been participating in the root of sin in your life, like the one of the big guns. Yeah, no, I can't trust you at all.
Speaker 2:Like why am I here? Why have we done this? Like this is a joke, this is a joke. And so I was so, so, so, so, so angry. And also it was just like so, so, so, so, angry. And also it was just like this is like, yeah, I just felt all the old patterns of like I feel blindsided, I feel like I don't know you, I feel like I don't know how to like all of the old things that you heard in episodes one and two of this podcast started coming back up and me just mixed in with the bitterness of moving for him and so, yeah, it was very, very dark there for a half a moment.
Speaker 3:And before I think all of that probably hit for you where you're overwhelmed with all those feelings. She asked a question. So it was like kind of I think she was a little bit in shock but asked a very wise, pointed question, which was why is that still happening? Like that was the only question she asked.
Speaker 3:And in my life and freedom I think I've been very, very intentional about not speaking anything contrary to the Spirit. Right, obviously, the hypocrisy is wild, because my life I would still do things that were contrary, but I was committed to not speaking contrary to the things of the spirit. So when she says why isn't this happening, every excuse that starts coming to my lips, I'm realizing, is contrary to the spirit. It all has to do with the way addiction affects the body, affects the brain. It has to do with stress, it has to do with changes. All has to do with the way addiction affects the body, affects the brain. It has to do with stress, it has to do with changes, it has to do with uh like I'm bringing up all these things and every single one of them finds its landing place If the flesh is greater than the spirit, if, if the spirit is not greater than the flesh, then, yeah, those are great reasons, valid reasons even to say this is why. And so I just realized like I had no good answer and I was quiet.
Speaker 3:And then, as I realized that I didn't have a good answer, this deep fear probably is what it is Shame and fear. A cycle of shame and fear started just like taking over my mind and my spirit just like a vortex, and it was probably like the shame and fear that I had let in via sexual immorality that was just now actually manifesting an insecurity in like what God had done in my life. Cause this is exactly what this is what living double-minded does to you. It undermines the absolution of what Jesus has done in our minds, in our bodies, in our faith, and so I'm like feeling the weight of like there's no reason. Did I actually experience anything?
Speaker 3:If I've been like sincere and I've been preaching this and like, so Morgan's being overwhelmed with all of like, like I'm trapped. We moved to a place I hate because of this person that's been living a double life, and I'm like I've been sincere. How is it that I've been living a double life Like? How have I been deceived by seemingly myself again? And so I'm, like, I'm, I'm tripping, I'm like, is there even such a thing as freedom? Like what, what even did I experience? And how did it persist? Like, how has it only now been exposed in this way?
Speaker 2:And I was also saying those things.
Speaker 3:You didn't say very much yet. Like for about two days you were just silent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really was like, if you can't say anything, nice, you shouldn't say anything at all.
Speaker 1:I remember you called me during church and I looked at my phone and I'm sitting there listening to the sermon and it's Morgan and I'm like something's wrong in Denmark and you were telling me about this and I the only thing I could say I don't think I said too much, but I was like all right, like at some point though you can't look at him like that right, I think that's the only.
Speaker 1:Maybe we said more later on, but there wasn't any really good answer. As we look at pornography, one of the main root of falling back into something that you don't want to do is when you're not emotionally regulated, that they go to former patterns when they are emotionally unregulated. That's kind of the beginning of being able to say, oh, it answers a lot of questions. I was afraid I was tripping, I was da-da-da-da-da, and so being able to sit there and understand when you're emotionally unregulated and you have that you should look at this thing that you know you don't even actually want to look at, but those thoughts that come into your mind, to be able to begin to see that then there's, there's like hope and you can look at it pragmatically and say, oh, okay, and you can be inquisitive of of what's going on in your life, um, but in the middle of that, if you made a mistake and there's like this stuff going on, it doesn't feel like you can do that in that, in that moment. Right.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, not so much, not so much. Uh, I went to Hui's house after church that day with Morgan Hui and Bebe's house and I'm just like I need to talk through this with we, like I'm spiraling in terms of like reality itself. And in that conversation with we I actually got clarity about what had been going on with me and one of the things was we realized that I had re entered the game of like the ways of the world, combating porn, and in, in trying to combat porn with the ways of the world, I was trying to fight the flesh with flesh and I wasn't just depending on the spirit, I wasn't keeping the, the single eye of faith in regards to this kind of thing. That was one. And then we broke something down for me about the temptations Jesus faced in the wilderness. Um and I'm probably going to talk, I guess, for a couple minutes as I break down what God did in me over those three days from Saturday to Monday. Hui breaks this down Jesus is tempted in the body, soul and the spirit, and when he's tempted in the body, it's the bread, and the tempter comes along and says if you're the body, soul and the spirit, and when he's tempted in the body, it's the bread. And the tempter comes along and says if you're the son of God, turn this stone into bread. And Jesus' response to a bodily temptation, a temptation that only affects a human body that experiences hunger in this way, is man doesn't live by bread alone. And he's quoting from the Old Testament passage where the verse continues and says but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. And so then we see how he fights the next couple of temptations, again using the word of God. And so he's like I'm satisfied, I haven't eaten in 40 days because I feast on the word of God and it is actually enough to sustain this mortal human body, so I don't need to turn stones to bread.
Speaker 3:And I realized like a porn addiction is a temptation in my body. I don't fight it with the ways of man, I fight it with the word of God. And I'm like for years now. It's like secret place needs to be my life. But it turns out I was only living from the secret place, like it was my lifeline when Morgan hated me. Or I was only living from the secret place when life got really hard and I wasn't sure where we were supposed to move and that kind of thing. But on the ordinary days I'm like I got to get up in secret place but then I wake up late because I stayed up late watching TV and then I start off my day.
Speaker 3:James says that if you know what is right to do and you don't do it for you, it is sin. So if I know I'm supposed to be living from the secret place because I live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, but I start my day and I end my day not doing what I think is right going to bed early, practicing a spiritual discipline of sleep, getting up early and starting my day with righteousness and intimacy with the Father. I start my day with a violated conscience. I start my day reinforcing the idea that's been planted since I was seven years old that I have no self-control. I'm a slave to my passions and my lusts. So then, of course, by the time, 11 am rolls around and it's like a slow day and I'm bored. Then this decade two decade long addiction rears its head and I'm powerless against it. Then, this decade two decade long addiction rears its head and I'm powerless against it.
Speaker 3:And it was like I started realizing, like I had exchanged the truth for a lie and one of the things that was causing fear and shame to hit so hard was I'm realizing that James says that the tongue, what he says about the tongue and how it's like a flame that can set entire forests ablaze, or like a rudder that can steer ships. And then it says in scripture beware who is a teacher. Like not everyone should be called teachers. And I'm like okay, I just got to this new church, there's more responsibility, I have more influence than I did on Oahu. And I feel very convicted that I cannot be participating in sexual immorality and also being the rudder of a ship. Like I have no right. And as I feel that, at the same time I feel shame because how can I be confident that I'm not going to? Like I'm convicted that I can't be a pastor who is addicted to porn presently. I can't be a pastor who's participating in sexual immorality. I can't be a Bible teacher of high school students. That's participating in sexual immorality. But I just started this job. So I'm like do I quit? Because I have no confidence that I'm not going to, because I had this revelation four years ago and I still got back into it. How can I be confident? I'm not going to. And so then I was stuck in the cycle.
Speaker 3:And I wake up Sunday morning and I get in Malachi and I see God just lay down the gauntlet for the Levites. If you haven't read Malachi, get in there and check it out. But he's like basically asking them these questions and then answering them for them. He's like you profaned my altar and then you asked me how we profaned your altar. He says you bring to the emperor the choice sacrifices, but for me you bring the lame ones.
Speaker 3:And as I'm reading that, god's like you get scared and shake and are worried and afraid when Morgan gets angry at you. But I've been clear in scripture that there's no place for sexual immorality and yet you haven't like trembled once like you do. And you're like God I'm sorry I messed up, what's the lie? But like I've been serious that you cannot participate in this and also take up the mantle of ministry Like there's there's no place for it and I'm feeling that the fear of the Lord is like. I'm not feeling like oh, god is a vindictive God, he's going to blot me out from the face of the earth.
Speaker 3:I'm like this is my God, who I revere and I honor who has given everything to me and I've made a mockery of it, and so, in a very real way, I want to apologize to any listeners that experiences they hear that I went back and double-mindedness the same kind of thing that Morgan experienced where it's like is freedom even a thing? If the people that gave it to me are just continuing to walk in the old ways while they think that they're doing this? Whatever, then is there even any kind of reality to this transformative power of the gospel? And that's where I'm like. That's why teachers can't be doing this, because when you share something, then all of a sudden, when you mess up, everybody that has received from you starts to wonder if there was anything real to it at all, and the power of God is actually like doubted in people's minds, and so I'm like feeling the weight of that and it's freaking me out. And I called you that day, rich, and I was on a drive and I was just like saying all these things to you and you said to me is it okay to say that?
Speaker 3:That you were addicted to porn? And I realized something when you asked me that I was like yeah, it is okay, but I realized that ever since I had that first conversation with Jonathan back in 2018, uh, and he said, tyler, your problem is not lust, it's validation and affirmation I was like I went full tilt. I was so like, yes, that was a more base and root layer problem in my life sin and lie in my life that gave manifestation to a fleshly addiction to lust. But then in freedom, I never acknowledged the old me as having ever died to lust. The old me had only ever died to affirmation. And I I the enemy kind of worked his way in there.
Speaker 3:And so the seed that like the only time I ever would watch porn was because of a need for affirmation. And so every time in freedom that I watched porn, I was like, what lie, am I believing? Where am I seeking out affirmation? And rather than just acknowledge, am I believing? Where am I seeking out affirmation? And rather than just acknowledge, like no, in my body I was addicted to porn. I was like, oh no, I was addicted to lust in my mind, and so I never just straight up looked at myself and saw myself as having dominion over my body and freedom. So when you said that, I was like, yes, I can say that I was addicted to porn and in saying that I experienced a weight lift where it's like, if I was like, yes, I can say that I was addicted to porn. And in saying that I experienced a weight lift where it's like, if I was addicted to porn, then that means that the porn addict, along with the affirmation, addict was crucified with Christ, and it means that today I'm not.
Speaker 3:And then the next thing God said to me was Tyler, if you're going to keep on living in shame from the past that you received freedom and then you did this again and then fear of the future, that because that happened, then it can happen again in the future, then you have no part of faith, because faith believes my word today, right now. So if you're going to be called among the faithful, the righteousness of God in Christ, if you're going to embrace freedom from sin and slavery to righteousness, then you need to believe my word today. My word today is that you are pure, that you're cleansed from your former addictions, and also you need to stop worrying about the future. It's got enough of its worries on its own. Is my word enough for you today? And like Jesus in the wilderness with the stones that he was tempted to turn to bread. Yeah, I don't live by bread alone, I don't live by affirmation and I don't live by the flesh. I live by the spirit, and his word is enough for me today. And so since that day, there's been a new commitment where it's like no, I don't live from the secret place because I'm trying to get closer to God or I'm trying to get to heaven or because I'm afraid of the flesh. I live from the secret place because that's what Jesus Christ bought for me Access to the Father, unity with the Father.
Speaker 3:And this world is hard and the patterns, like you say to me all the time, rich, nobody's got to teach you how to be addicted to porn. Once you've been addicted for 20 years, those patterns can come back anytime. But the Spirit of God is greater. And so this hits me Saturday, sunday, monday. And I just want to say all of that If you're a minister of the gospel and you're participating in sexual immorality, let the fear of God, if it's coming through my story, then actually sit with it.
Speaker 3:You do not have a right to be proclaiming out of your mouth the rivers of life while also participating actively in sexual immorality. Now, if you are actively working through an addiction and it's hard and you're like going and you're doing like a lot of work, understanding the way your mind works, and that you're learning how to regulate your emotions, like you were saying, and stuff like that you are not like, your freedom is not in jeopardy, your righteousness is not in jeopardy, you are secure in Christ. But what I'm saying is if you are a teacher of the word of God and you are influencing others who are following you as you follow Jesus right, hopefully, we're all pointing people to just follow Jesus directly, but we get it. We receive it from people. He uses people to reach people Then I want to encourage you very seriously. That is not okay you know what I'm saying Is that all right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, paul says it like this. He says let not sin, therefore, reign in your mortal body to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin for unrighteousness, but present yourself to God as those who have been brought from death to life and your members to sin for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. Yeah, so the whole point is Jesus is dead to sin and alive to God. Therefore, you should consider yourself dead to sin and alive to God. Therefore, do not let sin reign in your mortal body to make you obey its passions. Yeah, do not let sin reign in your mortal body to let to make you obey its passions. Yeah, so we put off the old man, we put on the new man. We're renewed by the spirit of our mind. We renew our mind. We change the way we're thinking about it. You went, we gave you this beautiful revelation. You're understanding the revelation. You're now thinking about it differently. You're in the secret place because it is life, not because, like in the past, the old oh I need to have my devotionals is like this guilt thing, this like legalistic. God's not happy with me if I don't spend time in the morning and I had a bad day because in the morning and I and I had a bad day because. And so on that side of freedom, it's weird and on this side, discipline is a beautiful thing and the secret place is a beautiful thing and it's different. But, yeah, we're convicted that Paul says put to death what is earthly in you sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil, desire, covetousness, which is idolatry. So, now that we're in and remember before we didn't know we were in right Back in 2019, 2018, 2009. Now that we're in, now we put off the old man. Yeah, put on the new man, all right. We put off the old man, yeah. Yeah, put on the new man, all right.
Speaker 1:We are going to take a quick break on this 200th episode of the death of life podcast. 200. Are you serious?
Speaker 4:200, that's like. That's like 195 more than I thought we were gonna have on this show, 200 yeah, after the first episode I thought we're cooked this.
Speaker 1:This.
Speaker 4:This testimony by tyler is mid uh, no reason why we would want to continue this. Should we even come back?
Speaker 1:with morgan's testimony? I don't think so. Uh, did you know that it's? Uh, we're recording this, uh, the day before this episode dropped. Did you know that this? This is Tyler and Morgan right now on the episode.
Speaker 4:Oh no, I didn't. Actually, I walked into the office earlier this morning and saw Eddie editing the video, so I had an idea that it was coming, but I didn't realize that I would have the privilege of doing the mid-roll ad, where we get to talk about how grateful we are for people supporting this and all the things that we want to talk about. I didn't realize the two would be one man crazy.
Speaker 1:So you're at the beginning of the episode because you're like hi, this is Justin from Love Reality. You're probably at the end. I don't know if we have something at the end, but now you're here at the middle. It is January and we just finished our year in push. We were giving some stuff away, weren't we, justin?
Speaker 4:It was our intention to give away a lot of good things, as is our bad habit here in Love Reality to give away an amp, to give away a brand new audiobook, to give away a new devotional series, a secret place series, good gospel curriculum. We were trying to give away everything that wasn't bolted down or screaming on its way out.
Speaker 1:It was crazy. It was like when you're running out of gas and you're throwing stuff out of the car.
Speaker 4:This is when you always Google do you get more MPGs miles per gallon with the AC on or the AC off? Are you more aerodynamic with the windows up or the windows down?
Speaker 1:We were trying to get rid of everything we really want to say thank you to you guys, to those who've been listening for a little bit, for those who've been listening for a long time it has been so what a blessing it's been. That episode, the first episode of Death to Life, dropped like four and a half years ago or something like that, and we're still 200 episodes later, we're still here. We want to do 400. And tell the people how they can help us get to 400.
Speaker 4:Well, truth be told, we're going to try and get to 400, no matter what the people do, cause it's our heart. Uh, we want to just keep giving away. We actually. The backstory to why we're emphasizing it in this manner is like we were making the joke of like, how do we let people know that, guys, we appreciate the giving towards the end of the year? You helped us not only hit our goal, but really set us up for a healthy position to navigate 2025. But we want to kind of just invite people to keep giving monthly, because it does make the ministry go forward. And I made the suggestion why don't we focus on all the things that LR has given? And so here we are.
Speaker 4:We're in the middle of this conversation now, but we just really we want to take this opportunity to say thank you so much for all you guys who have sacrificed. It has made a difference. We're committed to freely giving because this is how we have received, and so we're just grateful that there's a community that receives the word with joy and happiness. I think that that's, ultimately, what is the best part about what we get to do. It is fun to be able to show up on the internet to have some fun, make some jokes, tell some stories, but really, what it ultimately comes down to is getting to hear how it's being received on the other end. Nearly every single week, we're getting testimonies and DMs, emails of your friends, your family members hearing good gospel and coming alive to what God has done in the person of Jesus, and that's ultimately what we're excited about. It's why we want to do 400 episodes and why we are committed to doing this for as long as we possibly can.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and partner with us. Go to loverealityorg slash give and give like you've been given, and this thing is going to move forward. It seems like every Internet church or every Bible study, we have more announcements, more new stuff coming, and that will not change in 2025. So, loverealityorg slash, give Thanks for joining us on the 200th episode, justin.
Speaker 4:Stoked that you would include me. I'm just happy to be here, guys.
Speaker 1:Let's go All right. Well, let's jump back in to Tyler and Morgan's episode.
Speaker 2:Morgan's episode. So it was interesting because the Lord was definitely giving us the same picture. Like so for Tyler it was severity, Like hey, no, I'm so for real. Like, do not participate in sexual morality. And for me I was having a really hard time knowing how to navigate it this time around, because I knew the truth about his identity this time, but all of a sudden it was really hard to believe it about him and it was really hard to believe it about myself and it was really hard to believe it about myself.
Speaker 2:And it was a moment of realization for me that I had this fear kind of like that Tyler has already outlined, of just like, did I experience anything? Is this all fake? Like, do any of us really get to be free? Do any of us really get to enter into this gift of being a new creation? Was Paul for real when he said, behold the. Or when he said the old is gone, behold, the new has come? Like, is that real?
Speaker 2:Because I'm starting to believe what everybody has said to me, that doesn't believe it, that it's all just fairy tales. Because this was supposed to be real in Tyler and it was supposed to be real in me, and now I'm participating in all sorts of pride and control, Tyler's back in his sexual morality gig. Is this real? And then I went to bed. Well, no, Then I had a conversation with Tyler because the Lord was just like I need you to realize for a second that being angry about this is okay and I was like I don't feel like it is. I'm supposed to be like Tyler, this isn't who you are. You are free and you are loved, Like, I think, I. In my mind, that was the only appropriate response, which that is how most I was confessing my sins one to another.
Speaker 3:I just wasn't confessing them to Morgan, like I wasn't keeping this a secret. There were people who knew about this, but that is pretty much the response that I got from most people is hey, just remember who you are. You're free. That's not who you are Like, don't let shame take you over.
Speaker 2:And those things are all true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 2:But the Lord was like hey, hey, hey, let's talk about for a moment, let's get into some righteous anger, like let's just, let's tap into that for a moment, because that was not something that I had even considered as a possible reaction. That was like legal, according to the spirit. Is it legal? Yeah, but is it legal? And so God was just like you know, you're mad about Tyler participating in something that is actually a death sentence, like it had to, like I died for it. It's very serious, your pride and control. A death sentence. I died for it so that you might be free from it. So like you're feeling anger in response to something that is unacceptable.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh, and he was like so, yeah, like it's okay to be angry about it. What's not okay is to see him according to it. And so so I said that to him. I was just like hey, just so you know, maybe. Well, I was like, maybe I haven't been clear where I stand with you participating in sexual morality, and that is that there is no space for it at all. And if you are going to participate in it, like you and I will have to be in some sort of agreement that you'll confess it to me, and if you haven't already confessed it to your boss, I will be letting your boss know, because this is very serious. And he was like this was after he had already had his revelation. He was like, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. God's made that clear to me too. So it was just the agreement that we had with one another, but there was going to be no space for it.
Speaker 1:On a practical level, there is time for counsel. So when these Corinthians are actively having sex with the temple prostitutes, Paul writes them a letter and he's like no more of that. Okay, no more of the sex with the temple prostitutes. Paul writes them a letter and he's like no more of that. Okay, no more of the sex with the temple prostitutes. But to the man who is having sex with his mom, he's just like get that guy out of here, right, like we're not even eating with him. That guy's done. And so in some parts where you're like yes, temple he. Paul knows that these guys, they're pagans.
Speaker 1:Sexual, sexual intercourse with the prostitutes outside of the temple is a way of life. This is all of this stuff that they had experienced before coming to Christ. He's like hey, you guys were sanctified, you guys can't be walking in this anymore. But the other guy is much more serious, you with your mom. No, no, no, you're done, you're out. And the whole purpose is to bring him back in. By the way, it's not like you're just done, but he gives him over to Satan so that the godly remorse will bring him back to repentance. And so, in a practical way, like Paul man, I've just seen Paul as being so practical when it comes to this stuff and how and how he counsels, where sometimes we get either black and white and Paul's just like trying to work with this community and be like, come on babies, like let's, let's get it together. I know you used to walk like this. You can't, and you know, no, no, no, no, no, that's, that's, we're not doing that. No, no, you're out, you can't.
Speaker 3:And you no, no, no, no, no, that's that's. We're not doing that. No, mo, you're out. Yeah, something that I think I've been realizing more and more about what is what makes it worse? Right, Like, what makes the difference between the hey guys, stop that, it is not good. And now that you've stopped that, but also this guy, put them out of the church, don't eat with him, stop that. But also this guy, put them out of the church, don't eat with them.
Speaker 3:The difference seems to be not in the sin. Like the, whatever it is on paper, it's not like hey, okay, categorically, these are category five sin, these are category three. It's, although, while that may be factored in, sometimes it seems like it's more so. Do you know better? It's more so. Do you know better? Like, do you when it's culturally like we're trying to move an entire culture in a different direction because culturally there are some strongholds in it, versus there's somebody who knows what's wrong. They know what's right, they can do what's right, but they don't because they don't take it seriously or because they just decide. I want this instead. That is a very different thing. That is to actually reject the Holy Spirit, and I think that that seems to be the biggest difference For me. That's where the severity came.
Speaker 3:It's not that this sin is worse than that sin and whatever it's. It's that if I know what is right to do and I do not do it, if I'm starting to make justifications for sinful behaviors, even if they are as little as I don't know like, if I start saying like nah, it's cool for me to well, this is for like, no, it's cool for me to well, this is for adults, right, not children. It's cool for me to masturbate as long as it's about my wife. Like, it's cool for me to lust as long as it's after my wife. In covenant we start to justify things, but we actually have been convicted. We've lived for a couple of years with the revelation from God that that kind of lust is also evil, idolatrous and self-centered.
Speaker 3:And then I'm like, yeah, but I like it. And then I go from yeah, but I like it to it's not so bad. And then from it's not so bad to I'm just going to do it and I don't really care. And who are you to judge? I'm free. That is a very, very different thing than somebody who's never considered that masturbation itself at all could be a selfish act For sure. And so when we're trying to discern, like how Paul does in moving the Corinthians, we're not merely discerning what are good actions or bad actions. We're discerning where is this person at in their knowledge of righteousness and their knowledge of Jesus, and what following him looks like. And if they're at a point where they know and they're just like I don't think it's that big of a deal and it's not like we have to convince them according to scripture Then it's like it's a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 1:I'm certain that there's something about the mother-in-law that has to do with some sort of pagan ritual or something that, like his father's wife got, it ends up having to do with worship. When Paul is dealing with these pagans in Corinth, it always ends up being about idolatry. So in Acts 15, they bring the Gentiles in and like here are the things that you guys can't do, Like you don't have to be circumcised, but you can't. Sexual immorality is out, idolatry is out. And then there's this strange one where they're like you can't eat the meat if it's the blood, is that?
Speaker 1:But if you don't know the background, you're like OK, sexual morality, that makes sense. Idolatry, that makes sense. What's with the meat stuff? It's all surrounding this culture in Corinth. That was pagan and idolatry and Seeping through it. So I think with this brother, I think the sin is different and I hear what you're saying, I hear the principle of what you're saying, but the degrees are. One is leading to some kind of idolatry with this woman that he's married, that he's sleeping with. That was his father's wife.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to that point. So were the people having sex at the temple?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's yeah, idolatry let's get into it, because this was a huge turning point for me in sexual morality was okay, well, okay, we'll come back to the story we'll come back to the story, but but just while we're on this idolatry gig, Okay, Excuse me.
Speaker 2:So, um, fast forward a couple of months after we had this little blow up and I am like you know what I've never done red revelation yes, I'm Adventist. Okay, I've never read revelation. Get over it. And so I Tyler was like oh yeah, we can listen to it on dwell. And so we're listening to it. And Revelation one's cute. We make it through. And then it gets to Revelation two and it all of a sudden gets way less cute because this is red letter stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this is from our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. And Jesus says something about a bone that he has to pick with this church because they're following the path of Balaam that convinced Balak to get his women to engage in sexual morality with the Israelite men. And I was like who's Balak? What are we talking about? Who's Balaam? Why are those names so similar? And Tyler's like well, have you ever heard the story about the donkey? And I was like who? No, I don't know what we're talking about. And so then we pause our revelation tour and we hop into numbers and I think it's like numbers 24 and 25 around there and we have this really crazy story of Moses and the Israelites just like slaying Okay, they're taking over everybody. And the Moabite King Balak was like yikes, they're coming for me, I'm next. They're literally camped outside of our territory. So here is my version of the story.
Speaker 2:So King Balak is like okay, cute, I know of this guy Balaam. He's like I don't know a prophet for hire. It's very confusing. He was like I'm going to get him to curse the Israelites so that they can't take me over like all the other guys. So he gets in contact with cutie Balaam and he's like this is what I need you to do. And Balaam was like yeah, I hear you, but that's God's people, so I'm going to have to ask him first. Like I have to ask God for permission to put a curse on these people.
Speaker 2:And Balaam was like do what you got to do, man. So Balaam comes to God and God says no, nope, those are my cutie kids. You cannot curse them, but what you can do is bless them. And so Balaam is like right. And so he blesses the people, comes back to Balak and he's like I'll give you all of my money, I just need you to do this. And so Balaam's like okay, I'm going to have to ask God this. All right, I'll take my my little donkey, and then you have like the donkey scene, really cute. The donkey starts talking, and then so balaam tries again, like okay, can I put a curse on these people? He does this how many times? Three or four times, I don't know anyway, you're telling the answer is always no from god.
Speaker 2:And balaam is always obedient, like sorry balak, like literally he says you can give me all the silver and all the gold that you want, but I cannot move in disobedience. Like he said, no, the answer is no. I have to put a blessing on these people instead.
Speaker 3:So what's interesting about it is that when you read it in numbers it seems like Balaam's, just like a good little prophet of the Lord.
Speaker 2:He's a good boy, okay, he seems real obedient. And then revelation 2, you're like hold on, now, god's mad at Balaam. What did he do? Well, here's what he did. He was like, hey, behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:Listen, mr King, I can't put a curse on these people, but if you get your cutie Moabite women to seduce the Israelite men and get them to participate in sexual morality with your gals and then to eat food offered to idols, they will be in covenant with one another and they will actually bring the curse on themselves. So they start dying. I think 20 or 24,000 of them die because of this curse they brought on themselves. Literally, the backdoor curse was sexual immorality. Literally, in participating in sex with these pagan women, balak gets his way.
Speaker 2:So Balaam was obedient to God and like no, no, no, no. Okay, fine, I can't put a curse on them, but I know how you can put a curse on them. Have your women seduce them and it works. And so then I was like hold on, Like how is that different? Now? It's the same now, it is the exact same now that in participating in sexual immorality, we are literally putting our bodies in covenant with evil, like literally with contrary to God's design for us and it is, for all intents and purposes, cursing our own bodies Like. How many times have you felt that in your own flesh? That it literally feels like a curse to your body, that you're a slave to?
Speaker 2:I don't know the exact number, but so many times, so many times, like literally, it is still the game plan, it is still the sneaky backdoor that Satan is using to create a covenant with evil, and it still is ruining lives. And so I was like we're taking this crap serious. Okay, because if 24,000 Israelites I'm pretty sure that's the number, I'm saying it confidently, and I could be 24,000. So like if that many people died because of those decisions, like we should be taking that seriously spiritually. Now you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, doesn't Paul say it like this? He says, uh, sexual morality is a sin against your own body. And is it your own physical body? Maybe Is it the body of Christ 100%, because in laying with a prostitute, then you're in covenant with her, but you're also in covenant with this, this body of Christ, like you're, this is your people, and so you're bringing this prostitute into the body in that way. And so he's like don't do that, like it's a sin against your own body. So idolatry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, idolatry, you want to know something crazy. I started doing a bit of a deep dive into the brain and porn and I learned that, shocker, your brain doesn't know the difference between bonding with a body, like a, like man and woman, versus bonding with a screen. All it knows is it's going to produce the hormones that it's supposed to produce with, uh, sex. And so the more that you were literally bonding yourself to a screen, the more that your body's like all right, yeah, this is what we do. These are our connections. We're going to lay down these wires. This is our connection point. This is the body that we're bonding to Literally. For all intents and purposes, you are building a covenant, so we want to say like oh well, porn's not a real body. Yes, it is. Yet your brain doesn't know. It doesn't know it's just doing what it's created to do, which is to bond, it's to bind, it is for two to become one flesh. So, anyways, it's a whole thing Spiritually. The implications are huge and I'll get into it all day long.
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, that's why and I know this, this is not for kids Having an orgasm and with your spouse is a bonding thing, all of the chemistry that happens, like that's the purpose. Like God gives us that because he wants intimacy, he bonds. So if you're having that with a computer, screen like you can understand that calamity ensues and it's.
Speaker 3:It is not the purpose. Calamity certainly ensues. Well said, rich. Were you trying to read the Bible? No, I just pulled that up so I can follow along with your story. Cool. So what you said, rich, is one of the things that really shaped the way I'm living my life differently.
Speaker 3:So I mentioned secret place. That's one. The other one was the realization that if I sin in my body with sexual immorality, I sin against my body extended. And Ephesians 5 says that Morgan and I are one body. Genesis says that we are one body to become one flesh bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh.
Speaker 3:And so when I sin against my body, what I had ignored is that, basically, if I sin against my body, I need to be reconciled. I have brought something between Morgan and I and I need to be reconciled and I thought okay, I need to confess my sins to the brethren. I found myself often going to people who might understand, and not necessarily the person that I'm affecting the most in the spiritual way, which is my wife. So now I need to be reconciling, to confess, receive forgiveness, for us to actually walk in freedom together, which means also establishing and building trust again, living transparently, and so that was a big one. And then also, why can't I be a pastor, why can't I be a teacher if I'm going to keep doing this? Because every time I commit sexual immorality with my body, I sin against the body of believers, of which I'm a part. So I'm bringing shame into the body, I'm bringing guilt and shame from my body into the fellowship of believers, and so I need to be reconciled. And so the severe judgments that I have laid upon myself or submitted myself to is that if I participate in sexual immorality lust myself too, is that if I participate in sexual immorality lust, whatever.
Speaker 3:I confess it to Morgan and I say, morgan, like she extends forgiveness because she's living in freedom and stuff, but like what does it look like? Uh, I confess it to Kessie Rain Bennett, my lead pastor on the pastoral staff at PVC, and I say what, what do we do with this? I confess it to Jonathan Leonardo, because I'm a part of this ministry of love reality, and I'm like what do we do with this? I confess it to Jonathan Leonardo, because I'm a part of this ministry of love reality and I'm like what do we do with this? And I submit myself to the wisdom of the church. If that means they say, yeah, you can't demonstrate a life of consistent purity, you can't actually teach, then I'm okay with that. There's no shame or condemnation If I'm not allowed to be a pastor cool Guess what. The righteousness of God is still mine in Christ Jesus.
Speaker 3:So now let me figure out and work on my salvation with fear and trembling in a different role. There is no shame. So don't let shame keep you from submitting yourself to the discipline of the body, because discipline in the spirit is not punishment. Discipline is pruning, and any branches that don't bear fruit, they're cut off. Praise the Lord. So that's been how I've been living it and I'm going to be honest. My life is continually looking more and more different. Like I don't watch TV. I plug my phone in in different places. I don't use my phone in bed. I read at night instead of watching stuff. Like I don't watch movies by myself. There's just certain things that it's like are they wrong? No. Are they sins? No. But also I've got.
Speaker 1:Here's the problem, bro. We don't live like you, meaning, by and large, there are plenty of people who are still struggling but that do not understand freedom from sin, they do not understand forgiveness, they're wrapped up in religiosity and dead religion, and so they can't actually have confidence like you. When Paul's explaining who's to be elders in the church, they're to be husbands of one wife. They're supposed to be honest men. The whole point of this church was that there were supposed to be elders and leaders that would teach the rest of the men in this community how to live right, you're supposed to teach them in a sense and not really in a sense. It's kind of your job to teach people how to live, to teach people.
Speaker 1:This is how we're supposed to abstain from sexual immorality. This is how we're supposed to be husbands of one wife. This is how we're supposed to lead our family. But because we don't understand the gospel and we don't actually, we can't actually be confident and say these things. It's just a quiet thing that we don't talk about and we just keep these little lies to ourselves and we're being destroyed from the inside out Like that, like you're talking about the solution and man praise the Lord, if people were to be upfront and honest and then receive the truth of the gospel who they are, yeah, then they could actually start leading and teaching yeah.
Speaker 3:So let me then share this with everybody out here that wrestles with sexual immorality and addictions uh, if you've received a revelation of the gospel and your addiction and behaviors have persisted, do not be discouraged. The spirit is greater than the flesh. There is no, no thing of the flesh that the spirit is not greater than. Uh, don't be discouraged. Continue to press into the to the Lord and also be willing to change the neutral, the gray area things of your life for the sake of being entirely dedicated and devoted to the Lord, and also be willing to change the neutral, the gray area things of your life for the sake of being entirely dedicated and devoted to the Lord.
Speaker 3:A clean conscience is the greatest gift that I believe we've received in Christ Jesus, through the Spirit. The Spirit is obviously the greatest gift we receive, and with the Spirit comes a clean conscience. And to preserve a clean conscience is not a burden. It is a burden to violate a clean conscience, and so, whatever it takes, be willing to do life with the body of believers, let them in and do life with them, and when you say, like yo, I did this again, problem solve, respond to one another. Like Morgan said, you can be angry about things, but also don't position them for a minute according to the sin that Jesus paid such a high price to free them from. Position each other in righteousness and then, because we position each other in righteousness, submit one to another and find solutions to change the way we live our lives.
Speaker 3:Some people addicted to porn aren't going to be able to watch sports anymore. People who are addicted to gambling aren't going to be able to watch sports anymore. People who are addicted to alcohol aren't going to be able to watch sports anymore. People who are addicted to gambling aren't going to be able to watch sports anymore. People are addicted to alcohol aren't going to be able to participate in entertainment that portrays drinking and partying Like. You have to change certain things for the sake of preserving a clean conscience, and it is worth it. There's no shame or condemnation, but do it together in the body. Does that make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like it's like this interesting thing, because I think that I have been accused of. When we talk about these things, people have said like oh, this sounds like. Oh, what is it called? Like, if you are perfect, then Jesus will come. What is that? Oh, like last generation theology.
Speaker 2:People say that we're saying that, or we have people who are saying like, oh, so you're saying that you're free, so you can do whatever you want. And I'm my brain just goes so crazy Cause I'm like what we're communicating is that if you are in fact, as the Bible so clearly states a bajillion million times if you are in fact a vessel of the spirit that raised Jesus from his grave and that marched him out of his tomb, if you are in fact a vessel of that, then your life is going to look different than it did before. And if it doesn't, then something is wrong. And I think that I a couple of things.
Speaker 2:So I think that I used to believe that any sort of tactic or any sort of like behavioral change or any sort of like not watching sports when you're alone or not watching movies when you're alone I thought that was unbelief, like, oh, so you just can't do those things because you don't believe that you have the Holy Spirit, whereas now, maturity and the Spirit has taught me that lifestyle choices are made and changes are made, because I'm a vessel of the Holy Spirit and I'm not giving my body an ounce of permission to move according to the flesh, so I'm just like Jesus says hey, is that going to be a problem? Pluck your eyeball out. Nope, cut off your hand. Like you're always saying, I would much rather remove an app from my phone or stop watching TV by myself.
Speaker 3:Or not. I don't have social media on any of my stuff anymore.
Speaker 2:Right. Like these are. These are movements according to freedom. Like this isn't. I'm a slave to my sin, so I have to cut these things out. It's like no, because I am a vessel of the Holy Spirit, because I am a new creation, this is what my life is going to look like. This is what John Mark Homer calls practicing the way of Jesus. My life should look different than what the rest of the world is doing, and I think that I misunderstood that early on. It seemed more like it.
Speaker 3:I want to be very clear about something with that, which is that when we talk about changing the way in which we follow Jesus and the way we live our lives in these like seemingly mundane parts of life, we are not doing it out of fear of the flesh. We're doing it because there is a purpose that we're put on this earth for, and it is righteous and it's holy and it's good and it's for the sake of the kingdom, like we are bringing the kingdom of God to earth as it is in heaven. Jesus has given us this charge and this responsibility, so I'm I want my life in its entirety to reflect that. So why am I trying to justify certain things that are neutral, like? This isn't about me just not watching porn. This is about me having a life entirely devoted to purity and holiness, and so there's questions that I have to ask.
Speaker 3:The good that I did on social media, the gospel that I shared, is that good greater than the bad of me also watching porn? The bad of me also watching porn? And I believe that it is way better, for the sake of the kingdom, to live a life in holiness. That's an agreement with holiness. Then for me to just put some good news out there with my voice and my face or some words, and so that's been like the litmus test of like for the sake of the kingdom. What is the most important thing? And I believe it's a life enslaved to righteousness, a life of holiness.
Speaker 1:So, like, the more I read Paul, the more like I was saying practicality comes out. He really believed that Jesus was coming really, really, really soon. So he told these guys he's like you know what, if Jesus comes and you're married, stay married. If Jesus comes and you're not married, then don't get married. Okay, he leaves, jesus doesn't come. He hears about the wilding out. He writes them a letter and he's like yeah, you know what, if he's not here yet, if you're going to get married, if you're going to burn with desire, go ahead and get married. It's kind of like he's like I thought he was going to come by now, but he didn't come by now. If you're going to burn with desire, get married, because it's better to not be married, but if you're going to burn with desire, get married.
Speaker 1:This is the practical stuff and I just want to throw this in here. This is kind of a wild idea. It has to do with fasting. Okay, uh, I don't know if you guys have heard that ozempic is actually doing a lot of good for people who are gambling addicts and porn addicts.
Speaker 1:Uh, because it confused, like it makes you believe you're not hungry anymore and so much of the flesh, its desires are fulfilled, like when your body is just like out here wilding. That's why fasting is an actually really good spiritual discipline Totally, that when you're fasting and your mind is focused on this thing over here, and then these things like struggling with sexual immorality or looking at something that you shouldn't be looking at, like I believe it's obviously Jesus freed you from sin and he didn't free you from sin. If you fast, but practically, and it's a good spiritual discipline to develop and I just thought about that when I was reading about how gambling problems and all this stuff is changing with Ozempic because people are eating less. That is not me saying that you should be on Ozempic and Ozempic is the answer to sexual immorality.
Speaker 2:That's what I just heard. I don't know.
Speaker 3:We're going to talk about why you can't be on Ozempic here in a few minutes.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about why you can't be on Ozempic here in a few minutes, but let's get back to the story. What happened with you? Wait, perfect segue.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, because he said 1 Corinthians 7. That's where you just quoted from where Paul's like hey, I think, to the unmarried I say it's good for you to stay single. And then, before that, he says I wish that all were, as I myself am, but each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. This was a huge thing for me about a year ago, this chapter, and I read it, just kind of realizing that, like a lot of people that we'd minister to are single and they would be very frustrated that they're single, and then just realizing, like why did Paul say this as a single person? It's because in verse 17, he says let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, into which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches Be content, like if you were a slave when you were set free in Christ. Remain a slave unto the Lord. If you're married, stay married. If you're single, stay single. Be content wherever you are. When you have Christ, be all right with that. And no matter if you're single or you're married, you have gifts that are unique unto the church.
Speaker 3:This hit me because I was thinking about kids. I was like Loki kind of really had this desire to have kids and I was like it seems like having kids would be a real gift to me and to the church or something. But then I read this from Paul and he's like be content, like if I have asked you and Morgan to not have children for the sake of the assignments that I have for you in this life, is that okay? Am I enough? And it's the same thing he asked me when I thought Morgan was going to divorce me. He was like am I enough? Can you be content even if Morgan leaves? And so it's this, this commitment in the spirit to be content in all things. And I received it and I was content, all right.
Speaker 1:All right, Okay, so you said we were going to go back to uh the story. Yeah, what? It's Saturday, Sunday, Monday. He's getting this revelation You're, you're stewing what happened.
Speaker 2:So I'm learning to discern between bitterness and righteous anger a helpful lesson. And then I have a conversation with Tyler where I say like absolutely not. And then I have a conversation with Tyler or I say like absolutely not, just so you know, like there's no room for that in my life and my marriage no. And then I go to bed in a bed separate from Tyler, which we hadn't done in three years, so it was a new. I just yeah, anyways, no good.
Speaker 2:And I fall asleep and I have this dream, and in this dream I am in bed with my ex-boyfriend and I'm like, what are we doing here? And it's a moment of fear for a moment. But then I have this moment of release and I'm very comfortable. It feels very familiar and I'm just very happy to be there with him. We're literally just laying there. And then in this next scene of this dream, I'm marrying this ex-boyfriend and Tyler is at the wedding with a whole bunch of youth. He somehow got a whole bunch of plus ones to my wedding and he's like rounding up the youth.
Speaker 4:He's like hey guys, we got to go.
Speaker 2:Get in the suburban and I am standing there hugging my new husband and Tyler comes over to say goodbye, and so I'm like with one arm on my left hugging my new husband, and then I reach up to hug Tyler with my right arm and I'm like for a moment holding both of these people. And then I let go of my new husband and I just fully hugged Tyler and I am overwhelmed with grief and I am hysterically crying and I'm screaming like who let me do this? How did you let me do this, mary, this other person? And he's like I don't know, I'm sorry, and he's like and then it's over. I wake up and I'm like whoa, that was a weird dream. And I tell him the next day, like I had a really weird dream. And I go about my day and I'm on my way home from Pilates, as one does, and and God is like, wow, should we talk about that crazy dream? And I say, well, we've never talked about a dream before. Did not realize this was something you wanted to chit chat about. But yeah, sure we can talk about it. It was really freaking weird.
Speaker 2:And God starts to replay the dream for me. Except for this time I have his narration behind the scenes. It's like the director's cut and he is saying that I am in this first scene where I'm in bed with this ex-boyfriend, it is me getting back in bed with old Morgan and in this phase of my life where I feel so uncomfortable, I'm in this new place where I don't want to be and I'm being confronted with all of these very uncomfortable former patterns that Tyler has participated in, that I participated in, that I'm finding comfort in being back in bed with an old version of myself, in being back in bed with an old version of myself, aka Adam one. And then in this next scene, I'm like, fully committing myself to this person and as as in like as I doubled down in patterns of former ignorance, it is literally me like hitching my wagon to it, like I'm just like in covenant with this thing. And God is just like, as I'm confronted with Tyler, who gets to represent righteousness in Adam too.
Speaker 3:Amen, won't he do it?
Speaker 2:I am hit with this realization of no, this is who I am, this is what feels comfortable to me, this is what I want to be committed to, who? Let me commit myself to this other version of me and then, oh, one detail I forgot. Commit myself to this other version of me and then, oh, one detail I forgot in the dream, at the very end, I vomit a wad of paper, literally just like a ball of paper, and I throw it away and God says to me that that is scripture. That is literally like me consuming, consuming, consuming these last three and a half or whatever years just scripture, scripture, scripture, and like living according to it. And it has become nothing to me, like I literally have betrayed all that I know to be true about myself because I want to get back in bed with this old Morgan, just to feel comfortable. And so God was just like yeah, wakey, wakey eggs and bakey, we're not doing this anymore. And it literally was a major turning point for me. Tyler came home and I shared the stream with him and I apologized and I was just like I'm not messing around, I'm not going to participate in these old patterns. So, in the same way that Tyler has had to kind of go on this. We call it an apology tour, but that's not really exactly what a confession tour to people who he was like discipling at the time that he was participating in double-mindedness. He's had to like apologize.
Speaker 2:I have had to do the same with my double-minded Morgan pride and control business, like living for myself and like all like the moving to Portland stuff. I've had to go back to the people who we were living in community with and just say I'm really that is not me and I'm really sorry. I don't want you for a second to think that that's acceptable, because when we accept this thing, like when we claim the truth about our lives, like there is a level of severity in like this is who I am and I will not settle for anything less. And so I'm sorry that I have portrayed it in such a way that that's okay, cause it's not. And because I believe that first, sean was serious when he said that the spirit that is in me is greater than the spirit that is in the world.
Speaker 2:Like I do believe what the Bible says about me is true. I believe that it's true about Tyler, I believe that it's true about you, richard, and so it's like we're not going to settle for anything less, and so I will confess my socks off, because I want you to know that I have been corrected in love and that I want you to learn something from my mistakes. So God shook me awake with a dream. We move on. We get this house, then we go on the revelation tour.
Speaker 1:I just want to say the elephant in the room okay and I remember when we were talking I was like you know, not forgiving him is not an option, right, like because the elephant's right there called freedom, and called like you've been forgiven.
Speaker 2:And you were like yeah, and I said I don care. I'm tired of forgiving him for this.
Speaker 1:I don't. I think this was on Wednesday and so you were. I think you had had the dream already.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was good, I was settled, okay, good Praise the Lord, and but you cause.
Speaker 1:You knew like that's the thing is like you knew the whole time that you had to, and that had to because there's a gun to your head. Perhaps you're not thinking about it, but you had to because you've been forgiven. And so I was like, how can you hold unforgiveness towards Tyler Right? And you're like, no, I can't. I'm like, right Now, let's talk about it. But that's like we're not going back. And you're like, and you were very sober, you're like that's right, you know we're not going back, yeah. And so, yeah, the elephant in the room, do not. What's that verse you just said? Freedom is not live as people. Freedom. He has set us free and not an excuse for the flesh right.
Speaker 2:A cover up for evil. We cannot use our freedom as a cover up for evil.
Speaker 3:No, thank you and I was.
Speaker 2:I was like no, but I'm free, though I just hate you. It's like yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 4:first, of all, I'm pretty clear about that sort of behavior.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then we enter into this new phase, which is I am trusting. So, okay, we move here. I'm a bitter Betty about it, but I get settled. And then it's like, okay, well, I need to work. It's expensive to live in the Pacific Northwest. Don't know if you know that or not, but I needed a job and there were no jobs and I was so sad.
Speaker 2:And then one came available. It was on call position for a children's hospital, which is my jam, applied, started working, and when they hired me they were like, oh my word, this is practically going to be a full-time position. We need so much help, so you can expect frequent calls. And I was like, yep, slay, that's perfect. Yeah, no calls Because I was hired and then census dropped in the hospital. They were having to call out their full-time therapists, so they definitely did not need the extra therapist. Okay, and so Tyler and I are like well, we just moved into this expensive house. We were kind of like really, depending on your financial contribution.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was really like, when we considered all the things that we felt God was calling us to do in ministry having a house that could accommodate hosting and things like that seemed like he was like, yeah, you need to have this. So we're in a house with a couple of guest rooms and we have a house in a safe neighborhood and which, for Portland, big deal, big deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that also like our guest rooms were legitimately always full in Hawaii because, as it turns out, people want to visit you there. They don't really want to.
Speaker 1:No, we just wanted to visit you. We you know Hawaii is cool and everything, but we wanted to see your guys' face.
Speaker 2:We didn't need the beach and the mountains you do for sure I can't say the same for everybody else, because now our guest rooms are empty and that's okay, so it was just like oh, oh well, we shouldn't live here like.
Speaker 3:This doesn't actually make sense and the affirmation that we got that this was the right spot is morgan has a couple of allergies, one of. We're going to mention a few of them tonight today. But one of them is she's got asthma and she's allergic to carpet uh, dogs, and so if there's carpet new, old, doesn't matter she gets really bad like asthma and she loved she walked into the main bedroom in this house and loved it had so much character but had carpet and she was like, well, maybe maybe it'll work out, let's just get it. If it doesn't work, we'll go into the guest room that doesn't have carpet, we move in and we've been in that room now for a year and a half. Morgan has never had an allergic reaction to the carpet in that room, so it's been like, are we supposed to be here? Maybe Maybe God knows what job you're going to get. Then that's how it's going to work out, and then Morgan gets it and then no work, and so like we're just clinging to, like it feels like you, put us in this house.
Speaker 2:Lord, what Like do I need to apply for other jobs? And he would say lean not on your own understanding, lean, not on your own understanding, lean. It was the only response that I was getting as it relates Peace be still, peace be still and lean not on your own understanding. So I don't get another job. And we, for the first time in our marriage, really financially had to depend on the Lord because we had been like poor early in our marriage. But it was never like leaning on the Lord necessarily as much as it was never like leaning on the Lord necessarily as much as it was just like stop ordering Dr Peppers at Taco Bell.
Speaker 2:And so now we're in this like weird time of like in Hawaii there was. There was like abundance, and I always knew that I had to trust in God with everything. But finances were mine. I got it. You know what I'm saying For sure.
Speaker 2:I was always like God gave you a brain to learn and to get a job to provide for yourself, and those things are true. I know that I have been given a passion for my job and that it is a good thing and that it does provide for me, but he is my supplier, he is who cares for me, not my brain cells. And so this was the first time in my life that I really had to lean into that and to be obedient to not get other jobs, because whenever, historically in our marriage, when finances have been tight, I'm like, no problem, I'm going to get another job, it's not a problem. And then I have, and it's been great, we've had extra money when we've needed it, and then I just quit those extra jobs when I don't need them anymore. Anyways, this time the Lord was just like. You cannot do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it seems like being discipled by God is God is so intentional about developing and refining our character, and so it's like putting he is very interested in severing every tie that control has ever had to Morgan's life through money, through, like all of the different aspects. He's very interested in severing every tie to the lie that I don't have self-control or that I'm influenced by others more than I am by him. Like he's very interested in galvanizing my freedom from all of that and my slavery to righteousness. And so it's not about life in freedom and life in the spirit is not so much about what is the right thing to do and now we do it, so much as it's like God is interested in refining our character. And so with this, it's not like getting jobs and using your mind is wrong. It's that for Morgan the way that she to the world.
Speaker 2:But I'm asking you to dig deeper here, and so it was a lesson that I did not know I needed to learn, because I did not know that I was still like white knuckling finances and I also didn't know that I was participating with money. In a way that it spoke about me and I thought that that was way dealt with. I thought that it was just like, yeah, money is not a determining factor of my worth. It says nothing about my character, because I know who I am in Jesus until we moved here and then didn't have any, and it was because I wasn't working and I was just like, oh my word, I'm not holding up my end of the deal, I'm not good enough. No-transcript him before. And it has been a very, very wild ride. So I think that I got settled in that about a year, because now we're a year and a half into Portland.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Say it took me a year to get like really settled in trusting him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean you year to get like really settled and trusting him. Yeah, I mean you. You know about that too, rich. I remember calling you about a year ago when it was the first time I was like, oh, we can't pay off our credit cards right now, like we can't pay our rent and our credit cards.
Speaker 2:What and what? That's crazy.
Speaker 3:And I was just like what do we? We're running out of money. And you actually were like what advice did I give you? Well, you, you asked me a couple of questions. You were like you're not actually out of money, you're just losing money. And I realized like okay, that's true. So, like just reframing again, like what do you, what do you see as enough? What, how do you conceive of a stability was what you basically brought into question. And I realized I saw stability as making money, not so much as do I have a place to lay my head, do I have money in the bank to buy groceries? And I did.
Speaker 3:I just was losing money at a rapid rate because our expenses exceeded that of our income and low key, our expenses have exceeded our income pretty much every month for the last year and a half. Crazy. But over and over and over, the lord continues to provide and shows up in ways that, like every time it gets tight, we just like. Come back to this thing about, like, are we being good stewards? Like are we actually stewarding the money that we have? Well, do we have a clean conscience about how we use our money, and by our money I mean the money that god has given us, whether through a job or from somebody or whatever, and when we have a clean conscience and things are tight, then it's really easy to be like well, lord, we're stewarding what you've given us so you can make a way. And every single time, some people that listen to this podcast have just hit us up randomly and been like hey, can we give you money? And it's been at times when we absolutely needed it and they had no idea.
Speaker 3:But the Lord did and yeah, so crazy Same body, so that's been really dope.
Speaker 2:I hope that the next lesson is I'm going to give you so much money. You're going to have to learn what to do with it.
Speaker 1:I really hope that's not and you're like guys in the next podcast. I had to learn to do what to do with these millions and it was a tough lesson, but your girl had to learn.
Speaker 2:We saw it through. God is good, yeah, but for now that is the lesson, and it has been really very fruitful because I've had to learn all these other areas where I have not actually fully given up control and so money is the name of the game.
Speaker 1:The name Marriage, kids Money. The name of the game. The name uh, marriage, kids money. You'll find out what, like what you're made of, what you're holding on, yeah, yeah, what you're holding on to, what like everybody's got faith. If it's twenty dollars that you literally, once that money starts going up, you get around 200, you still hold, you got, you got some faith. Get to to 20 000. Faith doesn't exist, yeah, yeah, god doesn't exist, um, but obviously that is not the way it is. So he's, he was discipling you in that, yes, and then and then speaking of.
Speaker 3:So you said the three things, Rich, that'll really test your foundations.
Speaker 1:I said three things. I said what I said. I said marriage money. I guess we're. Oh no, there was one more. What happened?
Speaker 3:Kids just thought one more, and it seems that the Lord would like to continue making sure our foundation is a solid rock, because morgan is pregnant what, halfway there living on a prayer, um yeah, so uh, I am, uh, I think when you guys called me, I knew it.
Speaker 1:I knew it the whole time. I knew it. Um, but tell me how it's been. Morgan, talk to me. What's it been like? Yeah, let's go. What's he teaching you?
Speaker 2:Submission, always submission. I know BB goes I think this is God literally just body slamming you into submission and I was like uh-huh, yeah, you got it, sister, okay, okay, so why?
Speaker 1:is that? Because, if some okay, god bless all these people who want, like there've been waiting and they're yearning and they're you know they want more or they want one, and so we want to be careful how we talk about this 100%. So what was your experience beforehand? Like you were pretty settled on, like we're not going to have kids. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We, when we got married, we kind of just thought, yeah, maybe, maybe not. And then the more that or the longer that we were married and the more that we were just like fully invested in our life being ministry, we were like, oh well, maybe this just isn't going to be how the Lord uses our lives, like maybe we will just always be ministering to everyone else's kids, like maybe that's just. And so we started kind of like trying to make sense of it. But then, like a year and a half ago, I was like, well, maybe, I just like don't want to. And it's another one of those things where it's like, not moving to Portland, I'm being resistant to something that God actually desires for me.
Speaker 2:And moving here really opened my eyes to being open to whatever God's plans are, even if they are not sounding super cute to me. And so I prayed just like, hey, god, hey, hey, hey, cutie pie Checking in, I don't want to have kids. Hey, cutie pie checking in, I don't want to have kids. But if that's in disagreement with your plans for me, I just would love to know, so that I could start to prepare myself, because I don't want to, I don't want to move in disobedience. I don't want to be, you know.
Speaker 2:And God says, oh yeah, well, that's not for you right now and I said amen, hallelujah, whoa also, that sounds like something I am going to have to get on board with at some point, and I told Tyler and we had just like a sense of peace about it. I have some interesting health challenges that I knew were going to make getting pregnant if that ever was a thing just like really difficult, and so we were kind of just like, well, it's probably not going to happen, and if it ever did, it would have to be a work of the Lord, because it doesn't really seem possible for our bodies specifically mine, rich, you quoted from 1 Corinthians 7 earlier and around the same time, morgan's praying this thing like Lord.
Speaker 3:Whatever you want to do, like if it's something I don't want, but it's something you want for me, then I am open to it.
Speaker 3:Right? That seems to be like Paul's practical advice to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 7 about marriage. We'll see if I can ever find it in here. But and I remember about a year ago that I was reading this and kind of wanting like Morgan and I were different in this where it was like I could see that maybe it was good and I knew that if it was from the Lord that we were supposed to have kids, god would convict her of it. But I kind of had this desire to have kids that I, I think, pushed down and it was starting to come up and I was reading through 1 Corinthians 7.
Speaker 3:And Paul talks about how, basically he says in verse 17, let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches and when you read through that whole chapter it's all about being content. He says to the person who's single if you're single, then stay single. It's better to stay single. If you're married, stay married. If you're a slave, remain a slave, but a slave unto the Lord. And reading through it with this lens of, like Paul's, calling the churches to be content, whatever they have, wherever they are at, whatever their family like structure is, when they receive the Lord, be content, don't seek to change it, even though inwardly you are so different. Now, and as I read that, I saw what Paul says, where it's like I wish that all were, as I myself am, but each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another, seemingly like conceding that if you're single, you've got gifts from God to the church that people who are married don't People who are married and have kids have gifts for the church that those who are single don't.
Speaker 3:And seemingly what I received from God in that, as I read it, was God saying Tyler, if I've called you and Morgan to be married but not to have kids for the sake of the church, then you can be content in that. And I felt it and I received it and I was content with it. And that seems to be the call, like whether you're wanting to have kids and you can't or you don't't want to have kids regardless, like what I keep learning from having this front row seat to Morgan submitting to the Lord, is that it's not about what you want, it's about being content. Do you come to the Lord and say like, hey, I really want this, but I'm, I'm open to if you say no? And do you come to the Lord and say I really don't want this, but I'm open if you say yes, cause if we come to the Lord like that content, then we actually are clay in his hands, our heart is soft, so that he can move us in the ways that he wants to move us, and he only gives us gifts.
Speaker 3:It's uncomfortable sometimes to get there, which now, going back to the story, like there's things that in our situation where it's like it seems unlikely and I think that's part of why I was just like pushing it down that I wanted to, because it seemed easier than facing the fact that maybe we'd want to when we couldn't. And so what God was bringing both of Morgan and I from different ends of the spectrum in agreement to is him saying I'm enough, will you be content whether I give you children or whether I don't? Yeah, and we both got settled on that about a year ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, praise the Lord.
Speaker 3:Praise the Lord. Cause come July. Yeah, morgan's talking. Well, in July, I think you're talking to Aaron Dickerson.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:And he prays healing over your dog allergy.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're going to get fully into that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just tell the story. It's a cool story that people want to know, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a cool story. Tell us the nitty gritty.
Speaker 2:I haven't even told aaron this yet.
Speaker 2:I need to tell really, aaron, you're in for a treat um, yeah, okay, so I have been allergic to dogs my whole entire life, very allergic. It's very, it's very annoying, very severe. Um, and my friend, aaron Dickerson, has been learning a lot about the gift of healing and has been like really seeing incredible miraculous healings and he was like, yeah, we're going to pray over your dog allergy, in Jesus name, you're going to be healed from that. And I was like, slay, let's do it. So he prays over my dog allergies a couple of times and I think Sylvia also had been. I can't really remember the details around that, anyways, and then I go home to Florida.
Speaker 3:Three dogs at home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where there are three dogs waiting for me, and it's always a little difficult when I am home because my breathing gets really bad. Sometimes I have to go on steroids. It's like a whole thing. And I had no asthmatic response to these dogs at all. Not only was I, you know, not only was I not having like asthmatic responses to them, but I was able to sleep in bed with them for several nights in a row and I was perfectly fine. My parents were like what's going on?
Speaker 2:This is insane and I was like yeah, no, I've been healed. And they're like wow, it's the Lord. Yeah, they're like this is crazy. So everyone is just like nuts. And then cause never in my existence have I even been able to be in a house for more than 30 minutes without wheezing my socks off. So I'm telling my friend Sylvia this and I'm like I've been healed. I'm not allergic to dogs anymore. And she was like well, what about that other allergy you have? And here's where we will do a lot of sharing.
Speaker 1:Um, I uh, if you guys don't want it, just for the people listening. If you don't want to know a lot about morgan and tyler, maybe skip forward five, five to ten minutes to hear the rest of the story yeah, uh, I am allergic to tyler's sperm, which we learned on our wedding night.
Speaker 2:a big old bummer, uh, yeah.
Speaker 1:He laughs, so you don't cry, right, tyler?
Speaker 2:So, and everyone's always like what, what? That's a thing, yes, uh, is it rare, you betcha? And am I one of the lucky recipients? Yep, so, um, yeah, I am allergic to Tyler's sperm. It's a very, very, very uncomfortable experience and, as you can imagine, can make tissues just less excited about sperm entering the scene. So it doesn't make you infertile, but it makes your chances of pregnancy it's just a little more difficult. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And she also has a subseptated uterus Got a funky little uterus.
Speaker 2:She also has a subseptated uterus, got a funky little uterus and that is what doctors have always been more concerned about, when it would come to like fertility, just because, yeah, anyways, it's just not great, it's not a great house for a little fetus.
Speaker 3:So here comes.
Speaker 2:Sylvia, yeah. Sylvia's like well, yeah, if you're not allergic to dogs anymore, maybe you're not allergic to Tyler anymore. And I thought, hmm, I have not cause, it's not even a thought, it's not a consideration, it's not a conversation. Because we did not think that this was a possibility, this was not a desire, and so we hadn't even thought of trying to see if I was still allergic. And I thought, well, maybe I have been healed. And so I get home from that trip in August and I say, hey, let's give this a go, let's see if I'm allergic to you anymore. Exactly, and Tyler's like whoa, whoa, whoa, that's scary. What do you mean? What do you mean? And I'm like yeah, well, I'm not allergic to dogs anymore, so maybe I'm not allergic to you anymore. And he was like, well, couldn't you get pregnant? And I'm like, technically, but it's just not likely. And like it's one time, like, what do you?
Speaker 1:I know how many people have said that in history and now they're called mom and dad. It's just one time.
Speaker 3:So I'm I'm a little nervous.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he's like I mean OK, and something that Morgan and I have done while we're talking about porn and money and sex might as well just stay right in that pocket.
Speaker 3:Morgan and I, in freedom, have many times prayed together before having sex, sometimes not very often out loud, but I know I've made it more of an intentional practice of at least saying a prayer in my mind as we are beginning to be intimate, for the sake of what Paul calls, or the writer of Hebrews calls, keeping the marriage bed undefiled, like making sure my heart is positioned completely in selflessness towards Morgan. It's not about me getting mine or whatever performance or anything like that. It's all about me being a blessing to Morgan in an intimate way. And so just saying a prayer, thanking God for this gift of intimacy and thanking God for what I have to offer her, and so as I go to like kind of say this little prayer in my mind, I also just say, like God, I'm a little nervous about this, but I guess if you were wanting us to have kids, this is probably your shot. And like I just kind of have that thought. Prayer, and yeah, long story, not so short. Morgan is still allergic to me, but now she's pregnant, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing, like when I was alert that one time, when I still was allergic, it wasn't even like a worry. It was like, oh well, if I'm still allergic to you, there's not been healing and I feel like there would need to be healing in order for there to be a baby. So I wasn't even thinking like, oh, I could have gotten pregnant. It was just like, oh no, that's not the miracle, like I'm still allergic to you.
Speaker 1:Whatever it is, what it is, until one day, you, ralph, on the way to work. How did you?
Speaker 2:find out.
Speaker 3:I just had a feeling. I was like, oh boy, I think she's pregnant, and so I just kept asking her about when did you have that?
Speaker 1:feeling.
Speaker 2:I was supposed to be able to confirm that I wasn't pregnant. If you're picking up what I'm throwing down. I was supposed to start my menstrual cycle very soon after that, and so Tyler kept asking have you started yet? Have you started? And I would say no, not yet.
Speaker 1:I'm not a doctor, but isn't that the hardest time to get pregnant? What they say, richard, it's what they, what they say like isn't it like right after your period, like a few, like three or four, I don't know, you're the most I don't know rich, because we haven't really looked into this kind of stuff yeah, we weren't looking into it, literally the three or four days right after your, your, but yeah, we were about three or four days right.
Speaker 1:you're the most fertile and so if you're doing the rhythm method, like, that's the time where you don't want to have sex, because that's when the chances are high and right before chances are low.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I was like just days away from my period starting and that makes it cooler, makes it pretty wild, huh yeah. And so I told cause, my sister and I have similar cycles, and so I just asked her have you started yet? And she said nope, but I'm supposed to tomorrow. And I'm like, praise the Lord, I will surely have my sign tomorrow that everything is fine. Didn't, didn't, didn't get that yeah. Many, many days later it's probably like 10 days later or something at least two weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, about two, I'm like, and you're still denying absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm like well, now I haven't started because I'm stressed, and so like my stress is what's causing this period to be late, and I pee on that little stick and I specifically got the one that was going to tell me a word. I don't want to line up the lines. Okay, I don't want to have to be like, is it? I'm not trying to do math? I was told there was no math saying. So. I get the words and we come downstairs and Tyler's like making a cup of coffee, and I'm like, okay, let's just go check. You go look at it, cause I'm still in my mind Like there's, there's no way.
Speaker 3:There's no way. So I look at it and I see that it says pregnant.
Speaker 2:And Tyler goes oh but I'm like you know when it's done like I'm thinking.
Speaker 3:Maybe the word not is like still fading in or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm like, well, it's going to say something on it. And he said, oh, it says something. And I'm like, what does it say?
Speaker 3:Bozo, what does it say? Biggest bozo ever.
Speaker 2:And it says pregnant and I start, yeah, like really having a moment.
Speaker 3:So now tell everybody A come apart or like come apart.
Speaker 2:Like a panic attack A hefty panic attack Because it just wasn't yeah, it just wasn't how I saw God working in my life. And so, like I didn't see this God, I did not see it coming. I just I felt like he was going to tell me when it was time, or there would be like a desire in me to like, okay, yeah, I, this is something that I want to do. And now I'm just pregnant and I'm like, oh, I am 16 year old, morgan's worst nightmare. Like in health class when they say if you even have sex one time, you could get pregnant. I'm like that is the scariest thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life. Like I am that. I am just like, oh, my word, and so can I fully appreciate that my body can get pregnant, yes, a thousand percent. Like that is crazy and that is miraculous, and I fully like accept that as a miracle. It just wasn't what I had designed in my brain as the miracle that I was looking for. I just, yeah, it was, and so it was.
Speaker 2:Just another chapter in the book of my life is not my own. You want to know the biggest joke? Here's the biggest joke For the past year and a half my prayer every single day at the start of my time with Jesus, and my secret place, time, is this Use my body according to your will. Let my body be a vessel of your Holy Spirit, to be used in whatever way you see fit today, because every day was different, Like every day was an opportunity that the God, the God, the God, that God was using my life in whatever way he saw fit for those 24 hours, and so that was just my prayer. And then it was like I had been saying with my mouth that I was submitted to his plan for me, but I just wanted it to look somewhat like what I thought it would, and then, when it didn't, I just had a full loss of control panic attack.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, that has been the new way that God has been continuing to build up Morgan's freedom from control and I guess what has that looked like? Mm-hmm, and I guess, what has that looked like? I'm taking your job now, rich, so tell me, babe, what does that look like? What has it looked like? And what does it look like for you now in, like the coming months, where your body is still changing? You still feel sick. You had a terrible first trimester. How's that going? I've had a front row seat, yeah, Right, right right.
Speaker 2:Now I want everybody else to receive the blessing I've gotten by watching and, like richard said, I just I I think that I oftentimes have a hard time talking about this, because I can fully appreciate that my experience is not how do I even communicate this?
Speaker 2:That my experience is is maybe not typical in a lot of ways, or maybe it's frustrating to even hear about, and so I can fully appreciate that maybe this is difficult for many people to hear, because they are on the complete opposite end of that, where it's just like I've tried for years and we've tried, like everything that science has to offer us and still, and so I can fully appreciate the frustration that kind of hinges in the pregnancy journey and I think that it really does all for me.
Speaker 2:Come back to what you've already mentioned about first Corinthians and being content in all things For me, I think that for a lot of my friends, they are having to be content in a season where they're not getting what they want, because I have friends who are actively trying to get pregnant. They're actively frustrated, they're actively having to like fully submit their lives to patience and waiting for God to like fulfill their request. And I'm on the other end of just like I'm frustrated that now I have to process this thing that I didn't. I'm like the complete opposite end, where now I'm frustrated and having to submit my life and my body to something that is fully taking over because that's what it's designed to do, like my life for the first time ever, like when the Bible says my life is not my own, my life is not my own. And that has been like a really wild experience for me and has been very good because-.
Speaker 1:What are the lies about that? Like, is there lies that saying that your life not being your own is a bad thing? Like, talk to me about me, about it.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's just shocking, like when my energy levels are completely different and I can't even smell like Tyler, like the scent of his person just made me sick. Sorry, babe, no shade, but it was just like weird.
Speaker 3:Like fortunately it's not the first time.
Speaker 2:Right, like I couldn't work, I couldn't like. Everything about my life was now fully different. Um, everything about, like, the way I was prioritizing my time had already started to change, and that will obviously be a change that stays with me for, I mean, the foreseeable future. Um, and it's not that it's bad or that it's wrong, it's that it's different and I didn't anticipate it, like I didn't see it coming.
Speaker 1:Here's a cliche that I told Tyler today. Is it okay that your life will never be the same?
Speaker 2:Is that okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that I was talking to Jonathan about that Cause that was like what I was lamenting in the beginning, which, honestly, lamenting is something that we don't talk enough about and I really think that we should, cause it is so beautiful because, yeah, anyways, we can get into that at a later time, but I was like mourning my life not being like what I imagined that it would be, and oftentimes people have to mourn the opposite, like if they have been wanting kids are having to mourn, so there's always like a lamenting of some sort of just like. But, god, I trust you, like I trust your plans more than I trust the way that I'm trying to control them, and so I am just kind of leaning into like, all right, if this is what he has for me, then this is just like trusting him to move me to Portland was really, really difficult, but I trust that his plans are good. Like this complete shift of my life has been very difficult for me to process, but I trust that it is good. It's just very physically uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:As you consider you know we're 20 weeks into this thing. As you consider this sweet baby in there now like, do you consider the baby a lot or you can, are you thinking about how you're navigating it?
Speaker 2:um, I think that I am very overwhelmed by the title of mother. I think that's very overwhelming to me. That's what's a lot. Why is that? Why are you overwhelmed by I don't know? I think that I can appreciate that it's really significant. Like it's like people are, like you're not just raising a baby, you're raising a future human. Like this is someone who will make decisions and who will like. I can fully appreciate that this is not nothing. Like to raise a person is significant. I think that I'm overwhelmed with that responsibility.
Speaker 1:But in some sense, you're not responsible for how that baby turns out. You're responsible for how you raise the baby, but you're not responsible for how the baby turns out. You're going to be the bomb mom because of the spirit of God that lives in you, and you are going to love that baby and be an awesome mom. Do we know how that baby's going to turn out? Of course not. Is it your responsibility? Of course not, but you're built. I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess, so I mean you are like God, every attribute that a mother has as beautiful as from God, and because you are made in his image, the image of love, you have everything you need to love that child. Will the child respond to that love? Who's to say God loves all of us? And not all of us have responded to his love. But that's not God's responsibility. He didn't create robots. He's just out here, loving every single day, and that's what you're going to be doing and that's why you're built for this mug, and Tyler and I we've talked about this from time to time. We're just so pumped to see it and can I? Can I say, is it okay to say the sex of the?
Speaker 2:baby. Oh yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1:I mean, unless, when I found out it was a girl, I was like let's freaking go. Yes, that was just like I was so pumped, I was like I could just see it and I'm yeah, it's just go time, it's just going to be so beautiful and you get to experience some of that love that God has for you when you love this, this sweet little boo, and what a, what a gift you know it really is.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I think that we are in the same place as I would consider myself to have been a year ago in Portland, where I am leaning, not on my own understanding, and I am trusting that his plans are good and I'm trusting that my control is whack whack and that submitting to him is a gift and so it's good.
Speaker 1:And when that baby's born, all the advice that you've gotten up to that point will mean nothing and you'll have forgotten all of it and you'll just be like what do we do? And guess what? You'll figure it out. Your mom be like what do we do and guess what? You'll figure it out. Your mom will come by, she'll help you. There will be people, the community will be there. You got a friend in town who's had a seemingly 19 babies 19 that girl, yeah, bb, fam, and so, uh, it's gonna be awesome. Tyler, how are you feeling seeing this front row stuff?
Speaker 3:uh, it's been a huge blessing to see morgan continually submit to the lord, contrary to, uh, the old natural desire for control, and that has been super encouraging to me. To see her deny her body, like when she's deny her body, like when she's physically ill and gagging all day long and like sick with something that she didn't plan for, and yet to be praising the Lord and being grateful. It's an encouragement to me to continue walking out the freedom that I've been given in this body that I've been given and to be grateful and to steward my life because she continues to practice what she preaches. And so it's been a gift and I'm excited. I'm excited for this little girl, I'm excited to see how we change, how Morgan changes, and I'm sure when we come back on in a few years we're going to have a whole bunch of things that we learned, but this last few years it's been such a huge gift to be discipled by the Spirit.
Speaker 3:And, yeah, my encouragement to everybody that's walking in this alongside us is just that God is gentle and he knows what he's doing with us and sometimes we take it by faith that he gives us the desires of our heart, like sometimes we don't have the desire until after he gives us the thing, and then we realize later that we desire it. Sometimes we take it by faith. As a matter of fact, it turns out we take everything by faith. We just believe him at his word and it just works Like his word never returns void. It never returns void and those who trust in him are never put to shame. And so yeah, just like, let's keep doing this. You know it's so good, it's such a gift.
Speaker 1:Amen, Morgan. Do you have any encouragement for the saints who have been a little bit on the ride with you guys from your first couple episodes and are hearing this? Any encouragement?
Speaker 2:Um, I would say that the encouragement that I keep receiving from the Lord is that we have been called into something so sweet and so good and we have been given everything that we need to live according to it. And so if there's ever a moment of doubt in my mind where I'm just like I actually don't know how to not live according to fear in this situation, um, the encouragement from the Lord is that he has not given me a spirit of fear, but perfect love has cast out all fear. I have every spiritual blessing and the heavenly places. We have all of the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places, and that is incredible to me, and learning to live according to that in circumstances that want to convince me otherwise has been the greatest gift, because it's really easy to trust that God loves me and that he is so good and that I am free when I'm living on the beaches of Oahu and my life is going exactly how I would have it go. It's a whole nother thing to trust God with everything when my life doesn't look anything like how I would like my life to look, but knowing that he is enough and that he is good for us in all things, that his grace is sufficient and that he will never leave us or forsake us, is really some liberating life. Giving stuff that leaning into is the greatest gift.
Speaker 2:I also want to say that living in confession has been a huge, huge gift for Tyler and myself and that if there is ever a moment where we have fallen back into patterns of former ignorance, we are surrounded by people who will remind us of who we are and that we can say with our own mouths like when we talk about bringing darkness into the light, it becomes light. That has been life-giving for us and while there is there has been fear that has like risen up in me and sharing the things that we have shared, essentially the past, however long that we've been talking, um, there has been a fear that, oh no, if we say it, then it'll give give permission, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like there will be permission for the flesh or people will feel the same way I did, which is that there never even was a moment of freedom. The cool thing is, as we have shared this with people, there has been opportunity for then corporate confession, and there has been opportunity for people to be like you know what? I've been living according to this thing, and so the darkness that tried to claim both of us for however many years, when brought into the light, actually becomes a light source and it becomes a testimony, and it gives no permission for anybody to live according to anything other than what Jesus paid an incredible price for us to live according to. So, yeah, the encouragement is you are who Jesus says that you are. There is no permission to live according to anything else because you have been given everything that you need. The spirit that is in you is greater than the spirit that is in the world, and we live with each other to encourage one another in that truth.
Speaker 1:I just did a podcast and Jonathan was breaking down the incarnation and one of the things he said is that Jesus was incarnated to eradicate fear, like the kingdom of heaven is here now and it doesn't involve fear. And one of the ways that lands for me is listening to some of these old episodes, hearing you guys and you know I've been on the journey with you guys in some ways. We don't get to see you often, but you know we talk from time to time and so seeing your lives, seeing where you came from, and how much of a huge blessing uh it's been in my life. How can we, how can we be afraid, if we look back, that we, I, we wanted to schedule this, uh, this podcast in september, early october, because it's five years this year since the night we were all hanging out in Drew's apartment, and so when you think about that miracle, if that miracle can happen, then pregnancy, having kids, it's nothing, it's nothing.
Speaker 1:If you're on the brink of completely falling apart and and being destroyed that way, then all of it's just, it's just whipped cream on top, it's just it's awesome. And so, seeing that being on the journey man, he has loved us so well over these last five years, uh, and in the next five years it's just going to be more, more, more, more. And, uh, you guys are just a blessing and a testimony and cannot wait to meet, uh, this young lady, and it's just going to be another testimony of God's love, and it's going to be too much. I'm already, I'm already overwhelmed by it. It's too much already. So that's where I'm at with all this.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us Rich.
Speaker 1:Thank you for taking the time. My boy, I love to see God just breaking things down as we're growing in him, as we put to death everything that is earthly in us and we're just going after this righteousness, not to be righteous, but because we want to walk in it, because we have it in Jesus Christ. And so, if that's where you're at, you've been with us for a few years, you've been growing. And so if that's where you're at, you've been with us for a few years, you've been growing and you want to see more, a deeper revelation, then this prayer is for you, father. I just thank you that you're growing me and while I may have slipped and fallen, I know you have picked me up and I want a deeper revelation. I want more. Thank you for giving it to me in Jesus. Thank you that my eyes can be open to see what I have now in your son. In Jesus name, amen, listen, we love you guys, we appreciate you guys. This has been the blessing of our lives to minister to you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Hopefully we'll see you at Internet Church, on the podcast, at the Bible studies. It's all good. Let's not forsake the gathering of ourselves, and we love you. We appreciate you. We will catch you on the next one. Bye.