Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#205 Jessica Van Buren: Legalism to Hope
Jessica shares a powerful and personal testimony of her journey from darkness to light, highlighting her struggles with identity, trauma, and the aftermath of an abortion. Through her story, she reveals how God's love and forgiveness transformed her life, ultimately leading her to help others find freedom from their past as well.
• Jessica's conservative upbringing and its impact on her identity
• The trauma of childhood experiences and family dysfunction
• The emotional aftermath of her abortion and feelings of shame
• Discovering God's unconditional love and forgiveness
• Embracing her new identity in Christ and the importance of community
• Encouraging others to seek healing and support in difficult times
• Jessica's realization of the power of sharing testimonies for healing
• Finding freedom from anxiety and reclaiming her joy in motherhood
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:I was having nightmares of what had happened in my childhood and then, combined with the abortion and all of those things would like haunt me in my sleep and I would just wake up and I got this watch, uh, for one of my birthdays, for my husband and, and I would track my heart rate and I would wake up from sleep with a heart rate of 168, and just very unhealthy things. And I was trying all of these things. Nothing was working.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Dead to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with Jessica Van Buren and Jessica man. I ran across her on Instagram, I think, and we started going back and forth and this story just came out. She had listened to Eddie's episode and her story came out. And I had her on my Bible study and her story blew me away and she has been seeing God's faithfulness. Her story is not for the babies, it's for mature audiences only. And man, I just loved to see how God has shown through and given her a revelation of who he is. And so this is a big boy pants, one Buckle up and strap in. This is Jessica Love. Y'all, appreciate y'all. You have notes to keep you on track. If I remember correctly, we share the same ADHD, is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm very ADHD. So today when I woke up from working because I work night shifts sometimes I woke up and I was like, okay, let me put this all in notes so that way I don't get distracted or go on any rabbit trails. It'll probably happen, but I'm going to try to stay on track.
Speaker 1:So variety is the spice of life, so it's cool, yeah, so I was just looking at our first conversation ever and I had done this mini chat thing on Instagram and it was Eddie's episode and, um, then we started talking about that and we I got this whole story from you. Uh, which is this beautiful story? You came on, uh, my Bible study. But take, take me back to where you, where you feel your story starts. Where are we starting? Where are you taking us, Jessica?
Speaker 2:Well, I should probably preface this by saying that I actually was born seventh generation Adventist, not just seventh day. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know Seventh generation. Does that mean your cousin like like you were your family's cousins with william miller, like that far back, because like that that's even sounds like before 1863 or before 1844?
Speaker 2:we have pretty short. Like most of people in my family had had kids really young, so most of them had kids like when they were like between like 15 to 20 ish. So that's why, um, but yeah, 1800s, my family like came into the Seventh-day Adventist faith. Um, my mom had me, um she was, she had left Seventh-day Adventism uh right out like right when she turned 18. And she ended up kind of living a really wild lifestyle, getting into some drugs, and then she got pregnant with me and came back to the church like six weeks after having me.
Speaker 1:What part of the country is your mom from?
Speaker 2:what part of the country was. Is your, your mom, from Um? So she is from, she's kind of from all over Um. I know she went to Sunnydale, uh, adventist.
Speaker 1:That's my part of the world there, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:But she was in Virginia when she had me, so and she went to Fletcher so Okay.
Speaker 1:So how old was she when, when, when she got pregnant with you?
Speaker 2:she was um 20, I believe okay, so she graduated from Fletcher uh no, she went to Sunnydale and she got kicked. She got kicked out of Fletcher, then got kicked out of Sunnydale during her junior do you know why?
Speaker 1:do you know the reason? Can we say it on the podcast?
Speaker 2:I don't. Unfortunately she's never told me she was kind of being a little bit of a rebel. I don't know if you can edit out her name, but you might know her.
Speaker 1:I might know her what's her name. I might edit it out what is it?
Speaker 2:Her name would have been either Sarah Smith or Sarah Cox.
Speaker 1:What is it? Her name would have been either Sarah Smith or Sarah Cox, so she's from North Carolina, but she moved to Sunnydale.
Speaker 2:She went to Sunnydale Like she was her. She would go around Her family would drown because her dad would like did dams, like he would like run power plants.
Speaker 1:So would like run power plants, so but I mean, I'm guessing that she was in Academy in the late eighties or early nineties or something like that Nineties, late nineties. Well, hold up.
Speaker 2:She was like late nineties. Yeah, because she had me in 2001. Um so she, oh you're so young.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking you're. I was a junior in high school. Okay, that's my fault, I'm tripping. So no, yeah, I might've. I might've known your mom when she was in high school, Cause I'm like we used to play basketball against Sunnydale I might have met your mom before then.
Speaker 2:That's so funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm thinking like I still think I'm super young, I'm not?
Speaker 2:Uh, that's not true.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's okay. So I was going to say like back then you used to get kicked out of Academy for just like saying a swear word. But I did know a bunch of guys from sunnydale who got kicked out and they were building bombs. So maybe it's, maybe it's a different time.
Speaker 2:Your mom probably knows those guys I can say this I do want this edited out because I don't think my mom would want me to say this um, but she got kicked out of the first academy because she yelled at the principal, because her boyfriend got kicked out for the first Academy because she yelled at the principal, because her boyfriend got kicked out for reading like a book he wasn't supposed to be reading.
Speaker 1:So he got kicked out of Fletcher for reading a book. Do you know what the book was?
Speaker 2:I don't, but I think it had, like it was some sort of book, that was like a novel or something, and he wasn't supposed to be reading it. My mom got really mad and went into the principal's office and yelled at him so and then the principal kicked her out for screaming yo is your mom on facebook.
Speaker 1:Is she on facebook, oh?
Speaker 2:I. I could show you a picture later, you might recognize her I probably, I probably would I. Sunnydale, uh, like archives, and if you look through their yearbooks, uh, she's in, I think like 95, I think you can look, and I think she was like 95, maybe 94, 95, maybe 96. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, so she's the generation before me, cause I, like I, was a freshman when the seniors were 99. Okay, and so she probably knows a ton of the people that I know, but we're not where. She's one generation before me, okay. So, yeah, I guess I could. I'm 41 years old. I could have a my mom's 43. Okay, yeah, no, yeah, we're, we would be, we would be homies. Okay, so your mom, your mom has you, um, and where did where? Where were you born?
Speaker 2:So I was born in Virginia, um, and right after that she went and met my stepdad, um, actually, on one of the original the Adventist dating sites back the one of the very first ones.
Speaker 1:And what was it? What's it called? Do you remember?
Speaker 2:Sure, I wish I knew, but it was early 2000s, 2001. And they just met before there was even pictures on dating sites, and they started chatting online, found out that they were like couple of hours away from each other, met and like, got married, like within six months, let's go?
Speaker 1:Are they still? They're still married.
Speaker 2:They are still married. Yes, let's go. Yeah, so I that was really good, I think. In the beginning I don't know if they were like the best total match for each other, like they didn't know a lot of each other, like stuff about each other going into marriage, because they did kind of get married pretty quickly and so they ended up having my two younger sisters right after me and I think that's probably like where I would start.
Speaker 2:My story is, um, right off the bat.
Speaker 2:I remember feeling kind of unloved because it was my stepdad and I felt I could tell. One of my earliest memories is walking around the house and I was probably this was before my youngest sister was born, so I was probably like three or four and I just remember feeling like my younger sister's the favorite and nobody likes me anymore and, um, you know I don't think that was like his intention at all, um, or anything, but you know it is hard to raise a kid that's not yours and he really he was struggling, kind of both of them were struggling a little bit. We grew up pretty conservative. I also remember being really little and being in bed and being terrified of the end times, like I could not fall asleep, sometimes at night, because I was sure that the time of trouble was going to hit and I'd be separated from my family and maybe get martyred. And just to kind of give you a picture, my family was ultra conservative, ultra conservative, avidist. My dad lived near Heartland and he was converted by people at Heartland. So you're familiar with Heartland.
Speaker 1:I've heard of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've listened to some podcast episodes with people from Heartland. He kind of came into the Adventist faith through some of those people and my mom, I think, was kind of trying to like make up for some of the sins of the past by being more conservative.
Speaker 1:So just being vegan. This will help all those sins go away, right.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah. So we were vegan. Everything was, like you know, super sinful. We didn't wear like anything but short sleeves, like we wouldn't wear like anything that was like sleeveless. Let's see, we wouldn't. We didn't eat chocolate. That was a sin because it has like 0.0002% caffeine in it, let's see.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, I just I know there's some like really funny stuff I could pull out here. Um, yeah, like you know, don't paint your nails, don't wear makeup, like all of that type of stuff. And we bought a thousand acres in the middle of nowhere, virginia, um, because my parents were trying to get ready for the end times. And right around there, that point, 2008 hit and my dad, who was a builder, he like did construction and like had his own company. He ended up losing his company and we lost our house, and so we ended up having to sell that plot of land as well, and this kind of started a whole like new phase of instability for us, because, you know, construction workers were always, you know, we're all out of a job across, you know, the United States.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no one was building anything.
Speaker 2:No at all. So we ended up moving out to California. He tried his hand at literature, evangelism and he tried to sell books door to door for those of you who don't know what that is and it didn't really work out for him and so he ended up getting applying to a bunch of jobs and he got one with the National Park Service and we started moving. Every six months he would get temporary positions. We would live, like you know, one state for six months, move, live somewhere for six months, move, and at the time and at the time actually by the time I was 18, I actually had moved 18 times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so kind of saw all across the country, you know California, new Mexico, alabama, tennessee, florida, just lots of different states. We would always go to the most conservative Adventist churches. A lot of the churches that I would grow up going to would have, you know, between 10 to 50 members. Anything more was usually a little bit more wild and my parents wouldn't be very comfortable going, and so we would usually end up homeschooled. We homeschooled everything, except for one year when we went to Adventist school for one year while we were living in Tennessee.
Speaker 1:What part of Tennessee?
Speaker 2:I don't know if you're familiar with, like Monterey, Tennessee, or like I don't know if you know where Heritage Academy is.
Speaker 1:I've heard of it. I live near Nashville, but I don't. I've never been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so crazy thing is. So I didn't know my husband at the time but, spoiler alert, my husband was actually going to Academy when I was like 12 years old, living 15 minutes away from him, so that's kind of cool. But we were just, you know, just started very. We were very, like I said, we were very, very conservative and at this point some of my parents' issues were starting to kind of like pop up. They were always there but like I started noticing them the older I got and you know this is not against my parents I want to put that you know disclaimer out here right now For sure.
Speaker 2:But my stepdad had a really bad anger problem and when he would get mad he would start flipping couches, he would punch holes through things, he would start throwing things across the room, screaming. He would get on you for little things and sometimes he would start picking fights with people. He would just pick and pick and pick until you started like blew up or started crying and then he would kind of just sit back and enjoy all the chaos. And my mom was having some pretty severe mental health issues that really developed the older that I got. She would have like these meltdowns where she would say that she would like read the Bible. She would open the Bible or any Ellen White book, start reading through it, see somewhere where she thought that God was unfair, or she would read some of these rules and be like God isn't fair to women or God isn't fair to me, and nothing ever works out in my life. God hates me. And she would go on kind of these I would almost call them I don't know how else to put it in better terms but she would have these episodes of just fully melting down for a couple of days and she would, you know, even while we were homeschooling, like our school would stop, because she would just be in her room like on her bed just yelling, screaming, saying a bunch of stuff. You know that God hated her. She was, everybody hated her. Nobody liked her. She was a horrible person.
Speaker 2:And so I ended up kind of I am the oldest kid and I ended up kind of taking that caretaking role for my mother when she would go into those episodes For some reason, I would usually be able to work with her, so I would go in her room and she would like threaten to kill herself and stuff. You know there were so many times that I can remember as a kid where she would be like I'm going to go jump off a bridge right now and I'm never going to see you guys again, and she would run and jump in the car and just drive away. Or she would go in the kitchen and pull out a knife and say she was going to slit her throat or slit her wrists and we couldn't do anything to stop her and she would start screaming curse words against God and you know F you this and all of that type of stuff, and I think she was just having some pretty severe mental health issues and it was really hard. I don't know if it was drugs that she did in her past or different things in her past that maybe were struggling, but as far as me and the impact that it had on me, I was really confused because I didn't know how to help. I could only do so much. I would be able to talk her off the ledge of suicide a lot of times and be like no, it's okay, you know it's going, you're going to be, you're going to get through this.
Speaker 2:Like you know all of these things and just trying to help smooth everything over, my mom and my dad would get into really bad fights that would last for days and where they would, just as soon as my dad came home from work, they'd be screaming at each other.
Speaker 2:My mom would also get violent and throw things, so she'd be throwing things at him. She would break things If my dad was like fixing something on a house cause we would usually like move into a house, renovate it, make some money off it and then move to the next one besides his regular job, and so if my dad was fixing something in the house, she might break down what he was doing and kick it all over and you know, just start yelling and screaming over. And you know, just start yelling and screaming. And it was really hard on me as a kid because I would just I felt, and my stepdad didn't really like me that much so I was always getting in trouble with him. An example of that is they asked us to clean up the house for them when I was like maybe nine and I made a stack of like some I don't know if you're familiar with, like Uncle Dan and Aunt Sue, your story hours.
Speaker 1:Am I familiar with it? Yes, I lived it.
Speaker 2:They're good, I love them. I loved them as a kid and I would put like I remember taking all of them and I was like, oh, let me make a stack next to the stairs so I can just carry them all up in like one big thing so I can get this cleaned up, cause my sisters were a little bit younger and they weren't really listening to my parents and I ended up being the one my dad started screaming at me. He screamed for me at me for about three days and like even came into my room and like started screaming at me while I was asleep and I had to wake up because I put the CDs too near the stairs and if somebody had been walking they could have fallen and slipped on it and just some just things that didn't really make sense, especially now that I'm a mom. You know I look back and you know it was very confusing for me because I just always felt like I was. I didn't know when my parents would go in and out of being nice and then having these episodes being really nice, having these episodes. So I always was walking on eggshells because it wasn't one or the other.
Speaker 2:Um, but we always had this very perfect look on the outside. So actually, at one church that we went to, they called us the holy family because we always would dress super conservative and we always looked so good on the outside, but we would have been having screaming fights in the car on the way to church. But then, as soon as we get to church where this perfect family, you know, if there was even like praise music in church, my family would like sit on the front pew of that church waiting for the until the praise music started, and then we would all walk out at the at the same time to protest them having praise music, which is so embarrassing to look back on. I was so embarrassed as a kid, like even me as a kid was like I don't want to be here, don't make me do this. But you know, my family was like that type of conservative, uh, when I was.
Speaker 2:Another example is when I turned like 14, you're living near, uh, shenandoah Valley Academy and a guy gave me a hug out, um, in a hallway, like a side hug. My parents saw it and they stopped going to that church and started going to a really tiny church and banned me for going to Sabbath school for three months because they were like, oh my gosh, she's hugging a guy. Like no, that's not okay. That was kind of like what I grew up in, so very, very conservative All right, I think I get that's different.
Speaker 1:That's a pretty high level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were really conservative. To be honest with you, looking back, we didn't really read the Bible very much. In our home we read a lot of Adventist rules, a lot of Adventist rule books or white books that just have a lot of rules and a lot of counsel. Yeah, extra stuff that may be, you know, maybe helpful for some people, but not helpful for a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 2:And as a teenager I got really depressed because I didn't really. I wasn't really allowed out of the house, I didn't really have, couldn't make any friends, and I think that that kind of came into once. I was 17, my parents finally joined like a homeschool group so I was able to get out of the house once a week and see some other kids. They weren't Adventist, but they were Christian and I really- Were you socially awkward?
Speaker 1:Were you pretty typical Christian?
Speaker 2:And I really were you socially awkward, Were you pretty typical? I hated the term homeschooler. I did not want to be a homeschooler. I was begging my parents. I looked like it. Um, I'm sure I could pull up a funny picture. Um, I, actually my family, went on a Mennonite spree while we were like while I was a teenager. So actually I'm going to pull this up, I'll show this on the camera. Um, I went um, so my parents started using like I don't know what I'm saying. Um, my parents started using Mennonite curriculum because they decided the Adventist curriculum was too wild. Um, only want you turning butter and making furniture.
Speaker 1:The Adventist curriculum was too wild. We only want people turning butter and making furniture. Sorry, I don't know, that's not a big on Mennonite.
Speaker 2:I'm going to show you. So my parents found some Mennonite dresses and we started wearing dresses while I was a teenager. I'm glad we brought this point up, because we started wearing dresses.
Speaker 1:Did you wear the headgear, the hat? I?
Speaker 2:did not Thank God.
Speaker 1:But this is me in the black dress. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Fashion forward. Yeah, so that was me. I was, but I wasn't like, if you talk to me, I wasn't socially awkward and I didn't fit in with the homeschool group. So whenever we would go to like homeschool events, I hated it because I wanted to talk about things other than like horses and nerdy books and math and stuff like that. I wanted to have friends and all these people are standing there like hi, hi, and I was like no, I want to talk, I want to be friends, I want to have fun, and so that was my experience. I was definitely, but I also was really like I couldn't really go out and like I didn't know anybody. So I was just kind of like ended up going to getting a job at a smoothie shop and I I went, started going to community college and what did you want to do with your life?
Speaker 2:I didn't. So I really wanted to go into like cutting hair, and my parents thought that that was too worldly, so they were like you need to pick something else. But I didn't know.
Speaker 1:Hair is worldly Cause.
Speaker 2:everyone has hair and you'd have to learn makeup, and my parents didn't. All you can make up was a sin and you'd have to learn makeup and my parents didn't.
Speaker 2:All you make up was a sin, so. So I didn't know what to do. I was super confused. So I was like I'm just gonna take some college, like classes in college, and we'll just see where it goes. I'll just go in. You know, kind of I would go bounce around some different ideas, but I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I should mention this At this point in my life. I started dating around a lot because it was my first time out and I was like, oh my God, there's people I can meet people, I can have friends. This is awesome. So I didn't really pay really good attention to my studies and I really wish I had.
Speaker 2:I got to college and it was like the anti-homeschooler crusade began. I was like I'm done with homeschool, I'm just going to talk to people. So I would miss classes, I wouldn't go into anything, all I wanted to do was talk to people. I was like a starving person. I would just. If somebody said, jessica, do you want to come over here and talk? I'd be like, yes, oh my gosh, absolutely. So I would like just go do everything.
Speaker 2:And my parents were driving me back and forth to community college so they would have to pick my hours and they would like pick me up right after class. So I was like I'm not going to class, like I want to talk to people. So that was not. That was really bad.
Speaker 2:Looking back, I'm just like, oh Jessica, no, she should have paid attention, why did you do that? But, um, yeah, and I started working at, I said, the smoothie shop, had a great time. I really loved it because I was on drive-thru and I would get to talk to people when I handed them their food and I was just having a blast. But I was like a really innocent, probably too innocent. I didn't know anything and this is going to fall into line later with some of my story but I didn't know a single thing and I like to pretend that I wasn't homeschooled and I knew everything and I was totally fine. So somebody would mention a movie we weren't allowed to watch movies growing up and I'd be like, oh yeah, that's a good movie. I'd never watched it. I never even watched a movie, so I didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1:Did someone ever say like a movie and you're like, oh yeah, that's good. And then later you saw the movie and you're like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Yes, it has happened. Or I would just be like, oh yeah, like just totally acting like I knew what I was doing and I didn't, and that was not a good thing, considering that, you know, people would ask me at community college and I don't know how to say this in a nice way. He asked me for a hand job and while I was on campus and I said, oh yeah, because I was trying to sound cool, I didn't know that that was a bad thing. And then when he pulled his pants down, I was like I was like, oh my God, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:That happened in real life Like, oh, that's so sad.
Speaker 2:I know, and like I you know, one of my coworkers had mentioned they have, like you know, on headsets. I don't know if you've ever done drive-thru or not.
Speaker 2:Um, I haven't done drive-thru but the center button um of your like headset that you have, you can talk to just your coworkers. And so I have like some other girls that I worked with and they were like pressing the button, they were talking, and somebody mentioned a BJ and I would just innocently got on there and I was like what's that? And like I literally had like a whole, like the whole room like went silent and they like all turned around and looked at me and I was like I don't know and I had.
Speaker 2:I met one other friend. She is my best friend to this day. She grew up like mininite and um, she was working there too and me and her, just like, were like fish out of the water.
Speaker 1:We were completely what are these things that they're talking about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we actually met there and so we would like after work we're like did you hear that? Like oh my God, I didn't even know that was a thing. And you know, we were just like these super like innocent, like sweet.
Speaker 1:What restaurant were you working? What restaurant was this I?
Speaker 2:was working at Tropical Smoothie.
Speaker 1:Oh, but you had a drive-th through. I think that if you want your kids to get a taste of the real world, have them work in the restaurant business and they'll realize like that is not the business, like that's where the drugs are sold, like the fast food places, like that's where it's going down, like that's not the mood.
Speaker 2:Like that's not the mood. It was not, it was, it was pretty. It would get wild up in there sometimes I saw all sorts of crazy stuff, but yeah, so that was very interesting. That was like a huge culture shock and I think that first year out coming from homeschool and like absolutely no social interaction, to going into community college with a bunch of people who are like every single walk of life and it was just a little bit confusing for me Working places, you know all of that fun stuff. And, like I said, I started dating around a lot and my parents weren't very happy because I was dating wasn't dating Adventist guys, but there weren't really many Adventist guys in my area and I just had a kind of a specific type that usually wasn't in Adventist circles. I usually dated like pretty blue collar, very basic white guys dated like pretty blue collar, very basic white guys.
Speaker 2:So I they like to chew and they listen to country music in their truck. Yeah, very, and like you know, they were like I dated an ex army guy. I dated a guy who was like a mixed martial arts instructor. I dated a guy who was like 18 and had his own company and like was like an electrician and like all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:So that's some real life stuff there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I think those are the kind of guys you date but then you like marry and you have five kids, like three years later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was kind of going for that type of guy usually, but I would date around in that anyways. Like I would date them for a little bit and I wasn't like having sex with them or anything. And a lot of those guys were expecting that and so I was having some really low self-worth and I felt really bad about myself. Like I was getting a lot of my validation from men and so I would date them. They'd want me to have sex with them. Our relationship would start going bad. They'd break up with me or I would break up with them. And then I would feel really bad and start trying to get attention.
Speaker 2:And at this point my parents were still really conservative. They were not letting me wear makeup. They weren't didn't want me to wear anything but like clothes. That they were letting us wear pants again, but like still very conservative. And so I started.
Speaker 2:I got my first car and I started going crazy. I would like buy a bunch of clothes. I'd get like a big, like purse and like roll them up really tight and like hide them in the bottom of my bag. So I would go out and then, you know, change the car and I would have makeup and I would like put it on in the car and I'd feel so good about myself. Come home or walk, try to wipe it all off. But if my parents saw any like remnants of makeup, they'd get really upset at me.
Speaker 2:Um, I was 19 and my parents found makeup in my room and so they were going to take everything out of my room and I'd have to sleep on the floor until um, until I threw away all my makeup. So I decided as like a statement to them. I was like well, you're not going to stop me, I will throw it out, but you're not going to stop me from wearing makeup. And they're like out, but you're not going to stop me from wearing makeup. And they're like, yes, we will. And I was like, no, you're not, so I would. I, they would throw it out, like almost every single month, I would just go back to the store and buy more.
Speaker 1:You know. This is why punishment, this kind of punishment, never works. Because you, you, you ask yourself what do I want my kid to do? And then why do I want them to do it, if the why I want them to do it is because they're afraid that I'm going to throw their makeup away, like that's why you don't wear makeup, because you're afraid. Like, is that what you want your kid to grow up like? Oh, I don't do this because I'm afraid someone will throw it away. You actually want them. If it's a real value, you have to understand the purpose of that value, not just a fallen line like you're teaching them, right? So that's why that punishment never works.
Speaker 2:I think that my parents, you know, in their defense, I think that they genuinely believe that you know God isn't happy with you and they still believe this. You know that God isn't happy with you unless you follow this very prescribed, exact textbook how Adventists should look. So you know, I would grow up and I should mention I had no assurance of salvation growing up, you know, because there was this quote that they found that said you know, if you ever have assurance of salvation, you are in danger. And so I grew up with all of this type of stuff. So I never felt like, oh, I'm saved or God loves me for me. You know, I was. I grew up believing. You know my guardian angels would stand outside of the movie theater and cry if I went into a movie theater, and so that's kind of the type of stuff that I grew up with and so it was very a fear-based and I think that played a lot into my mom's mental health.
Speaker 2:But anyways, I started kind of going through a homeschool. I call it rebellion. It wasn't really rebellious, but I started going through a homeschool really conservative girl rebellion and me and my really good friends were like, oh my gosh, like we're going to both go home and we're both going to wear leggings and our parents are just going to have to deal with it. So me and her kind of like just helped each other kind of like and stay firm in that. She introduced me to coffee for the first time. You know, you know all of that good stuff. You know I introduced her, I showed her how to like hide clothes in your bag and you know we taught each other how to do makeup together, like we learned that together together.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of where I was at and I'm still seeking a lot of attention from guys going to college and just barely passing like, just trying to make it, so I didn't like get kicked out of the class, but just like sailing in the bottom. You know, and at that point I ended up. Adventists will know what this is. I know that there's some non-Avenist people that are going to listen to this, but there is a page called SAU Confessions and for those of you who don't know what that is, it's a bunch of conservative or conservatively grown up kids who all go to an Adventist college and they put a bunch of random, stupid confessions into a thing that's anonymous and it's a page and they post all of them Anyways. So I followed that because I knew a few people.
Speaker 1:When this stuff came out, I think I was working at a college and we had our own version of it. It made me so sad, like I was reading the stuff, I'm like yo. And then they had some stuff about me in it and I was like, because I was on staff at the college and I was like yo and people were like don't, don't show it to richard, they, they're talking about him. I was like dag gum. No, it was not cool. Oh, just terrible stuff about me and terrible stuff. It's just terrible anonymity. It causes people to just be super mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah oh yeah, that's very true. Well, I was following it because I definitely I had the time.
Speaker 2:I had really wanted to go to avidist college, but my parents said we didn't have the money okay so, anyways, I was, you know, following it and this guy I don't remember this, but this guy posted a comment and, like that, you could see his like name or whatever it was like under one of the posts and apparently I liked the comment and he saw my profile, he clicked on it and he was like, oh my gosh, a pretty girl liked my comment. So he decided to follow me and when I saw his follow request come in, I knew of him because we had like some mutual friends or like mutual people that we both knew and I was like, oh my gosh, I had heard about him and everyone said he was really crazy and he was kind of prone to doing some pretty wild.
Speaker 1:You're like I'm in.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and at the time I wasn't. I was like I don't know. So because, okay, I don't know if this should be on the podcast or not, but I think I should be good by saying this. I had talked to his roommate that he had. I didn't know that this was his roommate at the time, but I had talked to his roommate for a little bit and that guy had talked to me for like a couple months and then he took a different girl on the same date. He told me he was going to take me on and sent me a Snapchat photo of it.
Speaker 2:That's, that's gangster of it and that's that's gangster. It's not nice and that didn't help myself like worth at all.
Speaker 1:Like at all. I didn't take you on the date, but here's me and and sherry on it. Snapchat eat your heart out so that wasn't nice.
Speaker 2:So I saw this follower and I knew that they were friends and that was how I knew of Tyler and I was like I don't know if I like this guy If this other guy is really good friends with him.
Speaker 1:he's probably a bad guy. Yeah, Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like not sure about it and but I accepted his follow request and I posted like a comedy thing, because I love comedy, I like stand up comedy. I posted something on my story and this guy just responded to it and was like oh my gosh, I love this person too and we started talking.
Speaker 1:Who was it?
Speaker 2:His name is Kyler. This is my spoiler alert. This is my future husband.
Speaker 1:No, who was the comedian that you posted?
Speaker 2:I really don't remember who it was I wish I did. Let me see. No, you don't have to worry about it, I just thought I don't remember, I was just remember, I just posted something that was like really funny.
Speaker 1:And Kyler liked. It Sounds like Kyler likes to laugh, all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we started talking because I was any male attention that I could get. I would just talk around to lots of guys all the time, not when I was dating somebody, but I usually I would put on.
Speaker 1:You needed that affirmation. That was a huge thing for you. You're thirsty for affirmation.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would put like when I would date somebody new, I would text all the guys that I was texting and be like I'm dating somebody so I won't be talking to you. But then, as soon as me and the other guy would break up, I would text all of the guys at once and be like oh yeah, I'm back, like, and which wasn't nice. I was like springing, springing along like a bunch of guys, swinging along like a bunch of guys, and it was just a very like problematic issue that was going on. So I was kind of at this point when I met my husband and we started talking.
Speaker 2:He was going through a little bit of a rough spell. He grew up pretty conservative Adventist not as conservative as I did, but still pretty conservative and we were talking a lot and he was going through a really wild spell. I thought I was going through a wild spell, but he was going through a really wild spell. You know, he had just gone through a almost life like ending motorcycle crash and he was drinking tons and tons of vodka, so he would have like 16 shots in a night and he was really like, cause he can hold his liquor really well and so he was getting super drunk. He was calling me and when my husband gets drunk he gets very sappy. So he was giving me all of this affirmation that I wanted and he was just saying like sending me these paragraphs of everything that he liked about me and just like feeding into all of this stuff that just was not me that he likes, or is that the absolute vodka?
Speaker 1:like what?
Speaker 2:is it? Yeah, I bet like I just fell into it hook line and sinker and I could not stay away from him. I kept feeling like I need to stop because I was really good at breaking up with people I did not want. If I felt like something was bothering me, I would just be like end it. You know I'm done. Like you know I'm over you. And the guy would try to come back and he'd be like no, you messed up, I'm not speaking to you again, get away from me. Very dramatic and yeah. So I just could not stay away from Kyler, even when he would say stupid things because he was drunk. I would just come back and I didn't know why.
Speaker 2:But I think it was definitely feeding, like I said, lots of attention and all of this stuff, and I felt like he cared about me and I think for was definitely feeding, like I said, lots of attention and all of this stuff, and I felt like he cared about me and I think for one of the first times in my life I felt really cared for. You know I had shared some of one time. I shared right in the beginning. I shared some of like what I was going through at home and it was really really hard for me at the time because I was an adult, but I was kind of like it was like I was living, like I was really really hard for me at the time because I was an adult, but I was kind of like it was like I was living, like I was 12, you know, and my parents were putting trackers on my phone and like things so they could see where I was at all times. And it was really hard. Curfews was like curfew was my curfews eight, something like that, just very difficult. Curfew was my curfews eight, something like that, just very difficult. And I was telling him all of this and guys was kind of my escape, I guess you know where I could just talk to people and it just made me feel better.
Speaker 2:And I was telling my husband my I don't know what I situation at the time. I was telling him about this and he like teared up for me and he was like Jessica, I'm so, so sorry. And he was like I just want you to know that's not okay and if you ever like need somewhere to go and your parents are having a crazy episode, he's like I know you don't have anybody that you can go stay with. But he was like you're always welcome to come stay on my couch. But he was like you're always welcome to come stay on my couch.
Speaker 2:And that was that sentence right there Just like really hit me. And I think that's where, like all of that came in, where I just could not break up with him, because I just felt, for the first time in my life, I felt so loved and I felt so cared about and I really liked him a lot, because he just doesn't he does not care about what anybody else thinks. If he thinks something is stupid, he will say it, and I really liked that. So I ended up getting a chance to go to Southern.
Speaker 1:My parents freaked out because my younger and Southern for those of, if you don't know, is uh an Adventist college in Tennessee.
Speaker 2:Yes, um, I, my younger sister, ended up dating like a druggie guy, cause she was like 18 at this point, I was 19. And, um, she started dating like this druggie guy, that where she was working and my parents freaked out and so they're like you know what, screw the money, we're just sending all of you guys off to Southern. And I was like, oh, great for me. I was like.
Speaker 1:All we needed to do was date a drug dealer.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh man. So I moved and right away, at this point I had started trying some stuff, that I had tried some stuff with some other guys, never gone the full way, like I said they'd break up with me or I would break up with them, and that just really affected my self-worth. And at this point I tried coffee. I had tried a few things here and there and I was like all of this stuff doesn't seem like a sin to me. I wear makeup, I'm not. I know I'm not sinning, I know that like that, I am not coming at it from a weird place, like I just knew it was sin. So I was like, when I moved to Tennessee I was like nothing must be sin because I'm trying all of these things and it doesn't feel like sin to me.
Speaker 1:Doesn't make rational sense. As a young person, you're just like coffee, drugs, sex it's all the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, and was scared. I was like god's gonna hate me for this even if I do it. But I just it hated my life so much before and I couldn't stand like all of the rules that. I was like I'm just, I'm just done.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't I don't have an all or nothing mentality, don't you? It's like either I'm in if I'm in that I'm in if I'm not.
Speaker 2:I grew up in an all or nothing mentality or you did.
Speaker 2:Yes, my parents would like. You know. They even said that they're like, either we're super conservative Adventist. If we were not super conservative Adventist, we'd be atheist, because it's all or nothing. So that's kind of what I was growing up in and I was like, well, I guess God must not like I guess he's just going to be mad at me. Um, so I moved to Tennessee.
Speaker 2:I started trying more stuff, um, with this guy.
Speaker 2:I really liked him a lot and he just, but we would kind of get into some fights because I was trying to show him that like drinking and driving wasn't a good idea and you know all of these things, and so we would get into lots of fights about it. But then we also both got where each other was coming from. Also both got where each other was coming from. So when we would show up to Vespers, he would come on his really loud motorcycle like really, really drunk, and I would show up in a really short skirt because I just I didn't care about making friends at Southern, because I was like all of these people are conservative, probably, and I don't want to be friends with conservative people, and I would get like people giving me bad looks and I was like, oh good, I don't want to be friends with any of these people anyways, because I don't like to be friends with people who judge other people and, um, I'm sorry, I hope all this is making sense. I, I like oh it makes complete sense.
Speaker 1:I feel like I can see your. I see like you're like the kind of kid that you were and. I wanted to be loved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really did and I was really struggling because you know, everyone had, like you know, adventist culture. People grow up, they go to the same academy together and then they kind of usually hang out with the same clique that they went to academy with and then, if not, they make friends. Their freshman year and I was coming in not on my freshman year transferred in didn't know really any Adventists really. So I kind of didn't have a good in.
Speaker 1:There's the Forest Lake kids over there, the Collisdale kids over there. Where's the Mennonite kids? Those are my people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I started hanging out with all sorts of different groups in community college but I never hung out with anybody who was Adventist really. So I didn't really get, because Adventist culture compared to I didn't really get. Cause like, Adventist culture compared to any other culture is completely different. So I didn't really know how to fit in there and I was like screw it, I'll just wear short skirts, get everybody offended at me. Like show up with somebody who smells like street alcohol and I don't care, I don't want to be friends with anybody if they're going to act like that.
Speaker 1:Um, so I isn't that. That's a defense mechanism, obviously, because you really wanted to be friends with a lot of people but you had gotten hurt and you were pushing back. And this isn't it's just like. It's a cry for, like I want to love and be loved, like acceptance I yeah, but you pushed it, pushed away yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I definitely think it was a defense mechanism, just like you know, when I would I didn't mention this, but when I would go through a breakup with a guy, I would call all of my friends up and be like I'd be like, oh yeah, I broke up with this guy. And they'd be like, oh my god, jessica, are you okay? And I'd be like, yeah, I'm fine, like let's go out to eat, let's go have a fun time, like I'm I just want to cause I didn't know how, because of growing up, I didn't know how to process those big emotions. Cause, like I said, like my parents would like tear into me all the time and so I didn't know how to handle it. So I would just suppress all of it and just pretend that it wasn't there. Um, I would run away from my problems.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of like my defense mechanism, where I would just like push everything away and be like it's fine, I'm just going to push through, be who I want to be, do what I want to do and, like I said, I really wanted friends, I really wanted all of this stuff, but I was just like, okay, whatever, I ended up really falling in love with this guy. He was just. We just connected on so much. Like I said, he went to conservative Adventist school and we both just had a look at things and be like that makes no sense.
Speaker 2:That rule makes no sense. But my husband's a little bit more vocal about stuff like that than I was, so in high school he would like just be like that rule is stupid, that that rule has like no logical place whatsoever. So he actually ended up getting kicked out of Adventist Academy because he was like refusing to go to church and all of that type of stuff and just being like no, I'm staying in my room, um, or like he what he was getting in trouble. He had to do push-ups for like cursing, and so he just started like screaming the curse word over and over and over like a ton, so that way, like they just lost count of how many pushups he was supposed to do. That's kind of how my husband is, Um, and I just really liked that. I was like, oh my gosh, this guy like I was kind of being doormatted at home and I was like, oh my gosh, somebody's to stand up for me, like what? This is amazing? And I I started, I tried drinking for the first time, um, and around this time as well, I ended up having sex with him for the first time and a couple months later we decided that we were going to get engaged.
Speaker 2:Um, got engaged, actually one of the first, the first time that my husband ever met my parents. I said meet my parents, but don't ask them if you can marry me or not, because I want this to be my decision. And so we got engaged. My parents weren't super happy, but my husband kind of played a pretty Adventist front to them, so they were okay with it. And, um, so we started making plans for the marriage. Um, and one month after I got engaged I took a pregnancy test and that's why I prefaced it with like I was did not know tons of stuff growing up and so I didn't have like a very good foundation.
Speaker 1:They don't take sex education in the Mennonite school. No.
Speaker 2:So didn't know how anything worked really and I was really terrified about it. Um, but I didn't know, like I wasn't really aware, like, oh, you can get pregnant pretty easily. And I took, like it was probably two or three months after I had had sex for my first time, I took pregnancy tests and I was like, oh, my god, god, I'm pregnant. And at this point it's like the whole world started closing down on me because I was living a double life with my parents. I was like I said I was hiding the makeup in my bag, rolling up the clothes and hiding them in my bag and sneaking, you know, going out of the house and coming back in these nice, you know Adventist approved outfits.
Speaker 2:And you know I was running away from my problems of. Uh, I was having problems with a boyfriend. I just break up with him and just be like, okay, I'm done. You know we're good, you know we're not doing this with anything anymore. And, um, I was like I don't know how I'm going to get away from this problem. You know, everybody's going to know that I have been a total slut and I'm a horrible person and everybody's going to know what I've been doing. And I had a complete meltdown and I was like I don't know what I'm going to do. And instantly I just was like I'm going to go get an abortion and I was.
Speaker 1:Were you, you were engaged.
Speaker 2:Yes, but only one month into being engaged we got. We met in June. Yeah, we started talking in like May or June and we got engaged in December so and then I found out, like mid-January, that I was pregnant. And so I guess like three weeks, two or three weeks of being engaged and I found out that I was pregnant and it just like destroyed my whole world and I was like my life is over. And I should mention when my mom would have her episodes. She'd be like I had kids and it completely ruined my body and I look terrible now and you know, becoming a mom would like ruined my life and I used to be a fun person and now I don't have any fun anymore and she would like go into a lot of this.
Speaker 2:So all of these like feelings and thoughts and I think I internalized a lot of those things and I didn't realize that I internalized those and all of those feelings just started to like come all over me all at once and I was like I have to get an abortion because you know, for somebody who runs from their problems, that's really the only option if you get pregnant, especially if you don't want anybody to know that you're pregnant and I told my fiance and I said I'm having an abortion, and he was very against it, he did not want me to have it. And he was like, look, like I'll do anything, I will, you know, we'll figure this out together. Like I'll support you. If you don't want anybody to know, we can just go a lope right now. Like you're going to be okay, like it's going to be fine. And I was like no, like I'm having an abortion. This is the only thing, the only option for me, because my parents are going to find out and I, if they're this mad about, like a lipstick, I don't know what's going to happen if they find out that I'm pregnant.
Speaker 2:And also around this time I was having some issues like planning a wedding with them as well. I really wanted for those of you who listen to Taylor Swift, I my favorite song is Love Story and the entire world and I wanted the piano version. Like no words, nothing. And my dad was like no, I'm not going to walk you down the aisle If you listen to this. Like I'm not going to walk you down the aisle if you listen to this. Like I'm not going to pay for the wedding. We're not. Like you can't, we have to do it our way or the highway.
Speaker 2:So I'm having that all happened the same week that I found out I was pregnant, and so it was kind of a tough like I'm sorry if I'm laughing, I get nervous when, when I get nervous, I start laughing and that's really bad habit to have. Um, just take a little deep breath here. Okay, I yeah. So I just started like really struggling and, um, I called every abortion clinic within driving distance and I was like just get me in the suit like quickest appointment. I don't want this baby inside of me to feel any pain. And that was a huge thing for me is I didn't want you know the heartbeat to start or anything like that, and I just was not very educated in anything.
Speaker 2:I went to a pregnancy center too. They tried to convince me to keep it and I was like no, no, we're not doing that. They were really nice people but I just was like no, and that started some really big problems and started showing some really big issues in my relationship with Kyler and I felt also at that point I was like I've not got. I'm 20 years old, I've not gotten to experience anything in life. I really want to go try partying, I want to go to clubs. I want to do all of these things and I'm not going to get to experience any of this because I'm pregnant, I'm going to turn exactly into my mom and not get to do anything. And that I which is a really selfish attitude to have and I was being selfish and I was like I'm done.
Speaker 2:So I went to the clinic, I they gave me the pill that I was supposed to take and I just took it and I like I was supposed to put in my mouth and I just pretended to and like slid it down my sleeve because I was still kind of like it was a huge step for me to take and I at this point I was like there's no coming back from this. If I do this, like God's probably going to disown me forever and you know my fiance, he's really mad at me right now. Nobody loves me. I'm just I'm basically screwed.
Speaker 2:But I ended up going back to the dorm and I was like, okay, I have to take this because I have no outs. And I knew it was like. I knew it was wrong, I knew it wasn't a good thing for me to be doing, but it just I felt like it was my only option. And I was lying there on the ground and the ground, with all of this coming out of me. I was throwing up like tears, running down my face, you know, blood coming out and I just was sobbing my eyes out and I was like I'm never going to be OK again. Nobody loves me, I'm by myself and there's nothing that I can do. And at this point I really started contemplating suicide. Um, I lived on the fourth floor in the dorm and I just remember looking out over the concrete and being like this would be so much better. If you know, I would just jump out and, just, you know, end it all. It's not it's just.
Speaker 1:Fourth floor is not going to be enough. You're just going to get seriously injured.
Speaker 2:No, I was just like, oh, I don't want to, I just want to like, end it, I'm not, I'm done. Like this is too, I'm, I'm just not okay. And at that point I just completely stopped trying with my classes, I stopped doing, I completely stopped cleaning my room. At that point I realized like I was in a severe state of care because I just didn't know how to handle my sadness. Um, and I was just like bawling my eyes out all the time by myself. Um, I didn't really have anybody. I felt like I could really talk to seriously about it. Um, I was forging leaves, I should mention. Ever since I had gotten to Southern, I was forging leaves and staying at my boyfriend at the time's apartment for the tail as old as time yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just was. Really. It was really difficult. Um, I found out right after that that one of my husband's exes was trying to text him and telling him that you know she loved him. And this was like just a couple of weeks after having the abortion and he was talking to her and this just fed into my feeling of just not being enough and just not having any sort of identity where anybody truly loved me for me and I was a hundred percent for anyone. Um, and I found this out, I should mention, while I was drunk and I got really mad and I jumped in my car and I was like I'm going to go find this girl's house and I'm going to stab her tires, because I was just really struggling emotionally and I was like you are a horrible person, you don't know what I'm going through and I want to protect what's mine and this is my guy. And I thankfully didn't find it. I almost hit a mailbox and I was like, okay, I have to turn around, but it was just like a really rough couple months for me. I do want to mention I know that this friend is going to be listening to this I finally ended up telling somebody about what I was going through.
Speaker 2:I went back to Virginia and I had the friend that I mentioned that I met in the shop and you know, obviously we both grew up really conservative.
Speaker 2:You know, abortion was definitely something I was really scared to tell her and I was scared to tell anybody. But I finally told her and she you know I just want to give her a shout out Like she really showed me the love of God for like one of the first times in my life and she just I told her what was going on and she just looked at me and she gave me the biggest hug and she was like Jessica, she was like I just want you to know that I'm here for you, no matter what, and it's okay. And she was like what can I do to be there for you? And I didn't tell her like I was having all the suicidal thoughts or anything, but she just was showed up in like a huge way. So, sophia, thank you you I know you're going to hear this and thank you, cause I really don't know what I would have done without that.
Speaker 1:You know, you said they show you the love of God. The love of God, the only way you can do that is you have to know something about him. To actually love somebody, to lay your life down, you actually have to know something about God. And so the Bible says that if we love, we know God, and God lives in us. And so thank you, shout out to Sophia, for for loving, for knowing God.
Speaker 2:She's amazing. But you know, I I didn't really know God at this point. I just saw him as this angry tyrant in the sky who was going to get mad at me if I drank coffee or, you know, wore a necklace or anything. And right around mid-March, like I said, I went back for spring break. I was getting wedding supplies. My parents said everything was fine. They looked over everything, they were with me at the store and then I stayed up out past my curfew. I stayed up for my birthday with my younger sisters and I was at Olive Garden. You can see I was at Olive Garden, so I'm not sure why this was a huge deal, but I stayed out until 930.
Speaker 2:And the next day they blew up at me and they yelled at me for like four hours saying I was trying to have a worldly wedding, I was getting too much greenery and stuff for the wedding, I was caring too much about the wedding and how it looked and I was a bad person and selfish. And so at this point I started driving back to Tennessee. I was like I'm going home early and I was like you know what, screw it, I'm just going to drop out of college and I'm going to move in with Kyler. And while all of this is going on, this is like maybe a month after my abortion. Um, so I, I go into Southern office.
Speaker 2:I was like I am done, I'm, I'm quitting. I quit school, um moved everything into Kyler's apartment, told my parents I was moving somewhere else, so they didn't know. And, um, you know, I don't recommend, if you're going through something really difficult, don't move in with somebody, because moving in with somebody is a lot harder because you're merging two different lives and you know that can be hard. So my husband, he is an accountant Funny thing. I always swore up and down I would say I'm willing to marry anyone but an accountant. And here I was.
Speaker 1:Shout out to accountants. You guys are awesome, yes.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, they're going to be boring and control my spending, but I ended up marrying one, so that's just how it goes. If you say something like you'll never, ever do it, you'll probably end up doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, God's laughing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he would definitely was laughing at and he was like, okay, jessica, but so he's super like know, everything's like 100 neat, each thing has its place, everything is very tidy, and I move in and I'm adhd, like coming in the door, just like, and you know things everywhere, and so we were having some fights about you know how the general upkeep of the home how this was.
Speaker 2:Our lives were merging, um, like other than that, like we're great, like no fights, but that was just causing a lot of fights and both of us dealing with like the emotional fallout of having an abortion, um, because kyler really didn't want me to have it and so he was really sad about it. And my sadness I would always like mask over for everyone else, like I would cry by myself, but I would never like let anybody into that sadness, so I would like build up a bunch of walls around it and pretend that I was okay.
Speaker 2:So, kyler, I would be like I was really mean to him and, kyler, I know you're going to hear this too, I'm very sorry. I he was like really upset about it and I was like I'm being more of a man than you. You need to grow up. I'm fine, I'm the one who did it and you need to grow up and just you are not fine though.
Speaker 2:I was not. I was really, really. I was everything but fine, and that's why I was acting like that, um, and because I didn't know how to handle my emotions. So when I saw somebody on top of that doing it, I was like okay I can't handle this, you know, and so I was like you know what? I realized that I made a mistake having this abortion, you know, and I was like I wonder if I how soon did you realize that it was a mistake?
Speaker 2:You know I'm going to be 100% honest with you. I hope that this isn't like TMI on the podcast or anything. When I first saw that little bit of blood that came out of me, I knew that was a mistake and I knew I couldn't reverse it and that was really hard and I just knew it wasn't the right decision and I was just really broken inside. But again, like I said, I didn't even know how to process my own emotions, so I just seemed like really callous, even though inside I was just like all broken up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And sorry, I'm checking my notes to make sure I stay on topic I decided, you know, we were getting married in a few months and maybe like a month before the wedding, I was like I want to make sure like this relationship, you know where you need to fix a few things, because both of us, you know the relationship, didn't feel the same since we had this abortion and we were really good together. And I, you know, I want to say now like we're great together. You know I don't consider anybody my best friend more than Kyler and yeah so, but we were really struggling at that point and I was like the only way to fix this relationship is probably to get pregnant again. So we started not being as careful.
Speaker 1:Just after you got married or still before you got married?
Speaker 2:Still before, and this was like a month before our wedding and like a week before my wedding actually the week of the wedding I ended up finding out I was pregnant again.
Speaker 1:So the first time, all of this stuff was just all of these, these lies and expectations and this fear, and you didn't know how to regulate any of that and you were so afraid that you were just like I got to get rid of this baby.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then I realized I've made a huge mistake and this sounds like I'm really impulsive. I promise, I grew up. I wasn't even 20 at this point. I uh, or.
Speaker 1:I was.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm sure you were a kid yeah, I was, and you know I yeah, I was just like all over the place and just very lost because it was my first time like have experiencing any freedom.
Speaker 1:So I just you know when I said you're a kid, you know there's not a lot of rhyme or reason sometimes for the things that we do, and we're in complete deception of who we are Like. If we don't know that we are loved, we're searching for love. If we don't know we have everything, we go searching for everything. And so we can rationalize all this and say but at the end of the day it was deception, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, absolutely. It definitely was deception and I was so caught up and I was like you know what I had like by the time, like going through this experience. I had turned 21 within all of this timeframe. It was just a lot going on within these months and I started going clubbing and it just like I was depressed all the time and I felt like going out and like dancing and stuff was like one of my only outlets to feel alive, you know, to feel alive, you know, and I would go do that.
Speaker 2:And at this point, by the time I decided I was like I want to fix our relationship. Kyler's like the most important thing in the world to me and I was like I'll just screw it, I'll just, it doesn't matter if I don't end up having fun ever again, I'm going to be fine, I'm going to, we're just going to have a kid. And I found out the week of my wedding that I was pregnant. Um, we get married, go on our honeymoon, come back, um, and I really, after this, all the stuff of like all the planning for the wedding was over I started falling into this really deep depression because I hadn't dealt with any of these abortion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Pushing it away and plus, you know, pregnancy, that just brings a whole nother level of like very emotional things, other level of like very emotional things, and I started to get really sick beyond first trimester and I just, every time I would have these episodes of feeling super sick. I just thought that that was God's way of punishing me for having an abortion. And it was just another reminder of like, hey, you had an abortion, so guess what? I can't bless you anymore and I don't like you. And here you go.
Speaker 1:And this was like morning sickness kind of sickness, or was it. Like it was a little, it was bigger.
Speaker 2:This was the. This was a lot worse Like it was, so it wouldn't like pass it. My first trimester actually wasn't that bad, but partially into. So I, we ended up moving out of our apartment in Chattanooga cause it raised the prices and we couldn't afford it. And we ended up getting a house in Virginia and moving back to Virginia, where I'm from, or where I consider myself from.
Speaker 2:Um, that's the space that I lived the longest, so I consider myself a Virginia girly, and we ended up buying like a cheap fixer upper and decided to flip a house while I was pregnant, um, and at that point I started to get really sick.
Speaker 2:Um, we didn't have medical insurance for the first little bit so of my pregnancy. Um, because it takes Medicaid 90 days to kick in, and I, at the point where I moved to Virginia, I was like halfway through my pregnancy, so I ended up going with like a more natural approach to like excuse me, having a baby and, um, I the every time she'd be like, oh, it's fine, like you're good, you're doing good, and I wasn't really sharing how sick I was actually feeling. Um, but I was, yeah, I was having like crazy at this point. I didn't have like the watch to track it, but my heart was racing, all of this stuff and, um, I had a really difficult birth. I tried to give birth at home with my midwife and I ended up being in labor for two and a half days and yeah, were you in a bathtub, yeah, they had a big blow-up tub and I was in there and it wasn't going anywhere.
Speaker 2:And they're like oh no, you're fine, just keep pushing. I tried, I tried, I tried, I tried and it was not going anywhere. So finally I was like I have to go to the hospital. We go into the hospital and they're like oh yeah, it's because your baby's face, her face, was like stuck in the canal, like she was looking right down, so she wasn't in the right position, and they're like we're gonna have to rush you into an emergency surgery. So instantly, you know Jessica's that breach or something.
Speaker 1:Is that the technical term for it? Or maybe a little bit?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure, but her face was like stuck literally, like just like this, oh no, and so poor baby, so like we're going to have to rush you into emergency surgery. So again I'm like, well, you know, this is my punishment for having an abortion. Like these thoughts were going on in my head and they rushed me into surgery. Um, come, come out the other side. Like I were fine, we had, I had the baby, um, and she wasn't breathing in the beginning, um, so they were having to deal with that. I saw my baby like two hours later and I we had the whole house set up for like pretty, like you know, it would have been easy for me to be on like the top floor of the house, but since I ended up having the surgery, we had to switch everything down. My husband had to, but since I ended up having the surgery, we had to switch everything down. My husband had to go home right after I had the baby, pull everything downstairs and like get it all set up. And my in-laws helped as well. Shout out to them. They helped, like get the house set up for me to come in from surgery, because you can't bend over, you can't do all of this stuff at all. Um, and let me see. Uh. So then I, right after birth, I started having these really.
Speaker 2:Oh, and I should mention, while I was pregnant I picked up the Bible for the first time in the years and actually looked at it. I think for the first, really like real looking at the Bible for the first time in my life, because before I would always look at it I'd be like, oh, that's boring, like in my head and it's not a big deal because we were so focused on all of that type of stuff. I just would kind of like gloss it over. But I remember it was like a couple of days from the due date of the kid that I aborted, but it would have been, and I was like I want to open my Bible for the first time. And so I did halfway through my pregnancy and I started like looking at all of this and, yeah, it was really. I was so I was doing all of this, but I still didn't really grasp that God actually loved me for me.
Speaker 2:And, um, I would say three weeks after I had my daughter I went over to my parents' house, because my parents live like 10 minutes down the road from where I was living at the time and, um, they invited me over and I was bringing Jenna and right away there were some issues. Because I walked into the house and my mom smelled coffee on me and she was like you are drinking coffee and she was like you're a horrible person. That is coming through your breast milk. You, that's abuse.
Speaker 2:And then I went to ask my mom. I was like can you help me change the diaper? Because we didn't have, we couldn't move our diaper changing station downstairs but my husband was about to get on a work call so I needed somebody to help me change her diaper because I couldn't bend on the ground and I was like can you please help me change my diaper, the diaper. So she opened up the diaper and apparently on the way over from the house my daughter had pooped and but the I had tried a new diaper brand because you know, everybody gives you tons of diapers in all sorts of brands and so a piece of the diaper was like kind of stuck on her behind. So like some of it was like stuck, just have to wipe it off.
Speaker 2:But anyways, my mom was like you're an abuser, you should have never had kids. You're a horrible person and this was like three weeks postpartum and so it just completely destroyed me. So she started yelling me for four hours straight and I was just sitting there like sobbing and I had like some a few rips in my jeans at the time and they're like, you know, you look like a slut and you know all of these bad things and you're going to hell. You're Jesus, you know all of these bad things and you're going to hell. You're Jesus, you know can't accept you because you have all of these things and you're a mom. Now you need to get your stuff together and that kind of kickstarted.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it's you know, it's okay, it was just you know. Sorry, it's okay, it's you know, it's okay, it's, it was just you know. I see it now and I see that you know she's somebody that's very hurt and she doesn't know the love of Jesus. You know, and you can't give something that you don't have and something that you don't know, and if you feel like God's going to attack you and my mom always thought that God was, you know, giving her a hard life because of choices she made, you know, 20 years ago and so you know this is there, there's a theme with that.
Speaker 1:You believe that apparently she believed that that hardship in life is because you made a mistake and so God's punishing you. Yeah, you know how we talked about earlier. You're like your parents taking stuff away from you, like this is why punishment doesn't work and this is why God doesn't punish like that. Yeah, sin, sin punishes, sin sucks, sin is terrible, like sin is the thing. God is not your problem when it comes to that. God is the solution to the sin problem. He's not there, being like in your face. He's like I came so that you would live through me, so that you, I can free you from this. If you don't know that, then you're going to live with guilt, condemnation and shame and just your whole life. You're thinking, well, I shouldn't have did that thing, because now I'm, but that's not from God.
Speaker 2:It's not, and I really. So I went home and I decided to cut out my parents from my life because I felt like it was too toxic for me at the time. But at this point I developed almost a hatred towards them because I had just become a mom and I was like I can't believe you would do that to your own daughter. I have a daughter now and I don't know how you could do that. And I started going through my entire childhood and just being like I wouldn't do that and I wouldn't do that. And I started going through my entire childhood and just being like I wouldn't do that and I wouldn't do that. And I started getting a little bit self-righteous, I would say, and just a lot of the things that they said. And I want to shout out my husband again. He had already been seeing some of this stuff while we were engaged and newly married and I was really working on, because my parents would say pretty hurtful things and then just pretend, maybe apologize for it once, and then gloss over it. I was used to doing some of that stuff and my husband really helped me see, like hey, this isn't normal, you can't just say those things and that's a hurtful thing to do. So I was really working on that and at this point I had recognized that that wasn't okay. And so I was like getting kind of like very up at arms and very, very, I don't know how to describe it, but I was very like I can't believe I grew up like this. I grew up in a cult Like this was horrible.
Speaker 2:Um, and I, I was getting sicker and sicker right after this, like my sickness just took a dive. I thought that this would all go away after having a kid. I was like, oh, it's just sickness related to pregnancy. And I start getting really sick and I would be on the toilet for hours and hours a day as a new mom, just shaking. I would shake like this. I felt like I couldn't breathe. My heart would be racing. I'd be super nauseous. Be racing, I'd be super nauseous. Um, sometimes so nauseous I could barely see straight. It was that bad. And um, we tried to go to some doctors and they're like, oh, it's hormones. You're fine, like you know, sometimes that happens right after you give birth. You'll be fine, like, just move on from it. And I was like, okay, that's probably it. You know, I know my hormones out of whack, but it didn't seem. It started to get to a point where I was like this isn't normal.
Speaker 2:And right around that point we ended up moving to Florida because we were like we just don't want to be near my parents. I was having anxiety attacks about going outside of the house because I was scared I was going to run into them in public. And at this point, at this point, I heard that they were spreading rumors around like the community, saying that I was being mean to them and you know that I cut them out for no reason and just all of this stuff, and so I just don't want to have to deal with any of it. So I just was like, let's move. So we ended up moving to Florida. That's where we are now. Let's move. So we ended up moving to Florida. That's where we are now. Absolutely love Florida. But we were getting ready and we moved and the problems didn't stop and they just continued. And I was just thinking about these things.
Speaker 2:We didn't have insurance after moving to Florida, so I couldn't really go to a doctor although I did end up having to go to the ER one time for having that bad of an episode and I was just like just could not, I couldn't work. I was at home trying to take care of a baby and I, you know, I, I love once babies get past the newborn stage, because I, I get really, I got really anxious, because I was like, oh, I'm not taking. I really internalize the stuff that my mom said about me. It was like I must be a bad mom then. And so if I couldn't figure out instantly what Jenna was crying about, I'd be like, oh my God, I'm a bad mom. And she's crying and I've given her milk, I've changed her diaper, I've burped her. I'm a terrible mom, I can't.
Speaker 1:They don't speak English. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like you can't understand and so I was like just like, oh my gosh, like I must be doing a terrible job. I'm not I'm having to run to the bathroom, you know sometimes, and I can't focus, like I'm I must be doing a horrible job. And so, anyways, all of this is going on. Crazy stuff. Um, I just really was struggling in a lot of things. My husband thankfully, he was being very supportive, you know, and he just was like you know, we need to get this figured out. He's like you know, something isn't right, like you aren't the same person, you know, you're just really struggling, and he was like I can see that I really started like just trying to go on my walk with God. I started going to like a non-denominational church.
Speaker 1:Taking a quick break, I want to read you guys an email that blew my mind. You know, from time to time we get email, we get text messages, something on Instagram, and it just encourages me. This one encouraged me so much I want to read it to you. This person wrote in that said yo. They didn't say yo. I added that I'm not typically one to give feedback unless it's directly solicited, but I felt moved to speak a word of encouragement today.
Speaker 1:I drive all day every day for work, so I have a lot of time for podcast listening. Usually I binge one to catch up and then move to another one, which puts me behind all the time. I've listened to DTL since the beginning, but I've been catching up on the last 20 or so episodes. In the last week I was actually really angry mercy when I realized that DTL was next on the lineup really angry mercy when I realized that DTL was next on the lineup. My mind has not felt like a safe space in the last six months and it has gotten especially bad in the last two weeks. I didn't feel like I could listen to the stories of people getting freed from and healed from sin, because that's felt like a hide-and-seek game in my life, not the free from sin part, but living in peace. I can't ever seem to get a hold and keep a hold of peace. But ugh, people's stories did it again, or rather, god did it again. The reminders of how he works through the struggle and never leaves actually got me out of a hole I was in. My mindset has been reframed and I can now see how the devil was using my mind against me and how, when he had a chance, he just kept pouring on the lies.
Speaker 1:You guys, please don't stop doing what you're doing. It's more powerful than you know. I know life hasn't been easy for you either, but we suffer for a purpose. Thank you, thank you, thank you, man. That kind of message will have me running through a wall for the gospel, because this is why we do it. We want people to know the truth, to understand that they've been set free in Jesus Christ, and when we see it happening, we just have to praise the Lord. And so that's why we do this thing, and we cannot do it without you, guys.
Speaker 1:You hear me on here saying guys, go to loverealityorg slash, give Guys. This is what keeps us going. It keeps these podcasts happening. It keeps people hearing this message that has changed all of our lives. So please, I implore you, help us get this going forward into 2025. Go to loverealityorg slash give, slash, give. And we just want everybody to know. And when you partner with us, it allows us to keep doing it. So, once again, love realityorg slash give. Let's keep spreading this good news. Now let's get back to the podcast.
Speaker 2:And I ended up. I was on Facebook one day and I never checked Facebook, so I don't know what was going on. I'm mostly an Instagram person, but I checked Facebook and I saw that Hannah Rain I'm not sure what her new last name is, but-.
Speaker 1:Hannah Reyes now.
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, perfect. So I had gone to Heartland Summer camp as a teenager and I she had spoken there, and so I followed her on Facebook because, like I knew of her, you know I had her.
Speaker 1:You followed her back in the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, back in the day, well, I had followed her right when I got Instagram because I was allowed to get when I was 18. And I think I like followed her or something, I don't know, because I was allowed to get when I was 18. And I think I like followed her or something I don't know. And, um, I had gone to like some family camps that her family had hosted, sure, and um, yeah, so I knew of her.
Speaker 2:She was like a little bit older than me but, like you know, I'd seen her, I'd met her, and I saw that she had posted an episode of her testimony of like what led her out of like conservative Adventism and I was like, oh, that sounds kind of interesting. So it's like I'm going to give this a listen. So I didn't realize you guys were on Spotify and the link that was posted was somehow on like Google or something. So I was like I was determined to listen to this because I was really interested to see what this was about. So I decided I was going to download it. I listened to it for the first time.
Speaker 1:Um, actually, was this a? Was this a death to life episode, or was it? Oh, okay, so this is actually her death to life. Yeah, she's done other. She has another podcast that she and her husband do. This was just the one with me and her before she and her husband do. This was just the one with me and her before she was married.
Speaker 2:Yes. So I click on this episode and I was like, oh, this sounds interesting, I'm just going to like give it a listen and see what this whole thing is about. And this was the first time I ever listened to death, to life, and I listened to her whole story and I don't think I've ever related to a story more. Because I felt so like, oh my gosh, somebody else gets how they're Cause I would explain to some of my friends who around me, because I was going to community college, like this is what's you know. They'd be like why can't you go out or why can't you do this? And I would like explain it. I'd be like my parents said I can't, and they'd be like, oh well, it doesn't matter anymore, like you're an adult.
Speaker 2:But that wasn't like the mindset that I had. I was like, well, no, I'm going to get in trouble. And they're like you shouldn't be getting in trouble for that. But then I was like so when I heard her episode, I full on, I was listening and I stopped and I just sat on the bed and I just started sobbing my eyes out and I was like I've never related to a story more. And then I heard like her walk into freedom and I was like, oh my gosh, is this, is this for real? Is this something I wonder? But I was very cautious about it because I was like all of this stuff sounds a little bit wacko. This is like, a little bit different than like.
Speaker 1:What sounded wacko. Do you remember what it was?
Speaker 2:that, yeah it was talking about like freedom from sin and, like you know, I don't have to feel like all this condemnation. And I was feeling condemnation every day and I was putting it upon. I think, you know, satan was putting that upon me when I was like waking up and I was like I'm probably going to be a terrible mom today. God doesn't really probably forgive me for the abortion. That's why I'm having this crazy sickness and I'm probably going to be a terrible wife because I look different.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I mentioned that I was getting, I was putting my worth in validation and I was like, well, I look different now that I had mentioned that I was getting, I was putting my worth in validation and I was like, well, I look different now that I had a baby and I, you know my husband probably deep down, he probably doesn't love me the same, which is not true, but I and all of that stuff. But I just was so hard on myself so I would wake up and that was the mindset I had. I'd have all these dreams at night of all of these bad things happening to me as a kid and this abortion, and then I would wake up and start my day out like that and I would just feel crappy every single day.
Speaker 1:So the wacko things we were saying, or she was saying, was that you don't have to live like that and you're like I'm not sure. Yeah, I was like how do you get free of?
Speaker 2:that though I was like, yeah, I was like how do you get free of that? Though I was like that doesn't. And she was like saying, oh, you know, Jesus freed me from this. And I was like, well, I prayed to God and that hasn't happened, and so I don't know if that's really true or not. But then the podcast episode really piqued my interest.
Speaker 2:So I started going through and I started listening to some of the other episodes and I was like, you know, I would listen whenever I got a chance. I like split, usually split them up in between days, so I'd listen to, you know, part of one one day and then another one another day, whenever it was like my cleaning time, and I really enjoyed listening to it. And I was really started reading my Bible and really pushing into like my relationship with God, going to church every week and I wanted freedom from all of these things. But I, deep down, was like still kind of unsure if God could really do this for me. And it was hard because I was having all of these sickness and I didn't know what was going on. And at this I found out later, but I was having panic attacks multiple times a day, every day. But at this point I didn't know that and I just I started asking God. I was like, please, like, if this thing is from you, like please make that clear to me.
Speaker 2:And I started just after listening to this podcast and reading the Bible on my own, I realized like Jesus loves me no matter what and he's going to do anything to save me. And even if I don't feel like that, that truth is, that's the truth and you know. But I would say like I still didn't see any change in, like my mindset. Really, I was still so sick and it was really hard for me to focus. Um, but then I and I also read the book of Romans and that's when I was like, okay, everything that you guys are saying on the death to life podcast, this is lining up to what I'm reading in Romans and I'd like a whole study on it. And I was like, oh my gosh, like this is actually.
Speaker 1:It's in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's right here in the Bible. I never knew this. This is something that I never understood and I just felt. So I felt you know cause? I had like completely lost my identity of who I was, cause I was always like a very when I came out of homeschool, I was a very fun person. I was always going out and doing things, even if it was just little things. Like if my friends called me and was like, jessica, let's go watch a sunset, and I don't know, go grab Chipotle and watch a sunset, I'd be like, yes, I'm there. And since I moved to Florida and I didn't like know tons of people, I wasn't doing any of that. I was a mom now. I couldn't get out and do as much stuff. So I was like really have lost my identity. And I was hearing all these people talking about identity and price and I was like what does that mean and how can I apply that into my life? I went to a. I was still really struggling with feelings with my parents, like being able to forgive them, and I went to a women's conference and it was a little bit more charismatic than I'm comfortable with.
Speaker 2:I grew up in pretty conservative churches but they ended up praying. They had a call, altar call for anyone who was, you know, in their twenties to come up and they would pray over you. That God was like really help you be a leader in your generation. And so I went up and I just felt God in such a powerful way and I just felt like this warm sensation come over me and I knew and I just felt such peace in my heart while they were praying over me. And then the girl got up there and she was like I'm going to change my altar call. And she was like I or maybe this was a little bit later on in the service, but she had an altar call change and she was like, if anybody, she was like there's somebody in here who has not fully forgiven their parents for something. And she was like I know that there's people that need freedom from that right now and I know that there's somebody who needs freedom from that.
Speaker 2:And so I went up and I knew that altar call was for me and I knew that it just was like I feel the Holy Spirit telling me that this is like this wasn't relating to my sermon, like this is something that God's just laying on my heart. And I was at the altar call and I had some people praying over me and I knew in that moment like God took all of that hurt away from me and he just took that pain away from me. And he just took that pain away from me and I stopped like I just felt like that whole weight of everything that was on my heart just leave. In that moment and I contacted my parents for the first time because I was kind of being a little bit. I had told them I was like I'm not going to speak to you ever again unless you get counseling. And it wasn't coming from a good spot in my heart, it was more of a controlling thing.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about care for them.
Speaker 2:No, it was coming from. I knew my parents weren't going to get counseling because they don't believe that any counselor is Adventist enough for them to go to, so they won't understand. And I was like, and so they wanted to see where they're coming from. So I was like, well, until you get counseling, I'm not going to speak to you. And I was. I literally told Kyler. It was like well, you know, you can be controlling for 20 years, so now it's my turn, and which is a horrible attitude to have. But that's how I felt and God took that off. Yeah, it was. I felt and God took that off. Yeah, it was very better.
Speaker 2:And God took that off my heart that weekend, but I was still having this sickness. I was still having these dreams of my abortion, like I didn't know what was going on. Um, I learned a little bit more about God, like healing people nowadays and all of that stuff, and I prayed one time while I was having this sickness and I just all I said was the name of Jesus and the sickness just stopped instantly during that episode, but then it kicked back up and going again and it just it was going all the time. It was ruining like my ability to have do fun things, like I'd be at the park and then have to run off to the bathroom for hours and it just was not working. Um, and I just really realized you know from listening to death, to life, and you know reading my bible, that no matter the circumstances, jesus loved me no matter what and he would do anything to save me. And this all kind of led up to July 14th of last year and I was having one of these dreams. You know, I dreamed about this abortion and then I was in a church with my husband and my daughter, jenna, and another baby, and I knew that baby was the one that I had aborted and it was kind of like oh well, this is what it could be and this is what you ruined.
Speaker 2:And I woke up and I just was like bawling my eyes out, just woke up in so many tears, I was sobbing and I was like I made this huge mistake. I and all of a sudden I hadn't been reading Romans at this point, like I'd already finished it a couple months before. I had like this whole cloud was just over me the whole time. All of a sudden I just woke up and I just felt like God speak to me and he said there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, which is Romans 8.1. And it's like he spoke it over me, like there's no condemnation for what you did, there's no condemnation for your past, like Jesus loves you so much, no matter where you're at what you did, like you can't change what happened, but Jesus loves you and you are a hundred percent in him and so that doesn't matter anymore. And it's like God took all of that away from me and I just started bawling even more. And I just knew that exact moment that I was free and shout out to your podcast. I actually had been listening to it like the night before, so, but I was like just bawling and bawling and I was like God, like you freed me, like you freed me. And I went into church that morning and on the screen was there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And that was just like the biggest shout out from God, like hey, I told I spoke this over you and here is a second confirmation that this is from me. And like I literally heard, like, like the audible words, like there is no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus and right after that, within all the same time, we ended up figuring out that this was an anxiety. I ended up getting on anti-anxiety medication. I have not had any episodes since getting on the medication and I felt like Jesus freed me from the abortion, from all my shame, from feeling like I was a bad mom, from feeling all of these emotions to knowing that there's no condemnation for me, and just because of my past and just because of who I was and everything, like Jesus loves me for me, and it just was so beautiful and I have to share this before everything.
Speaker 2:I, literally, a couple of weeks later, I was coming out of Walmart and I had God speak to me and he pointed out a van to me of like a homeless lady and he was like you need to go speak to her and you need to go bring her a homemade meal. I was like that's weird, but I was like OK, and so I went and I made her a meal, I brought it to her van and I said, hey, I know this is really weird. I hope this isn't intruding, but I just had the Holy Spirit really speak to me that you need a meal. And so she was like, really, and she's like you believe in Jesus. And I was like, yes, I do.
Speaker 2:And I shared my testimony of what God had done for me and she started crying and speaking, telling me all about how she had been holding a grudge for years against somebody.
Speaker 2:And so I ended up being able to pray over her. And I came back like a couple weeks later and she told me. She said, jessica, she was like I prayed and I confessed it to God and I gave it to God and for the first time in my life or not in my life, but in the first time in my ever since holding this grudge I was able to sleep through the night for a full night, without waking up multiple times. And that was like a problem for her, like she was struggling because she was holding this grudge and it was so much stress and like it was waking her up and she was like you know, she gave her life to God and just accepted accepted the, that God loved her no matter what, and she was actually able to get into some housing with some of her family right after that. And I just felt like God just gave me that experience right in that moment, right before I was supposed to meet her, so that way God could help free her from holding that grudge as well.
Speaker 1:So well, you know, I, you and I had had a conversation. You'd listened to Eddie's episode and you were kind of asking, like kind of breaking down, like okay, how do I stop sinning, and like what does this mean and what does that mean? And then I don't remember what time of year it was. When did you come on my Bible study?
Speaker 2:I was literally right after that happened. So, cause I had, like I was curious about all of that type of stuff, I was like, really interesting, I interested, I'd come on some of like the online church uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, internet, church and stuff, yeah internet church, but I wasn't like getting super sick, but um yeah, and so I was just really curious and then, um, it was like I came in, I think in July at some point.
Speaker 1:And you were, I think I wanted you to come on one Monday and you were like, oh, I'm busy, but the truth was like you were having, you didn't know if you wanted to come on right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was Well and I was, so I was also partially sick, but I really wasn't sure if I wanted to come on because and same thing with this podcast I am not somebody who, I feel like, speaks very clearly always and I get lost in my thoughts and the ADHD part of me is like just like woo all over the place and I was like, well, I don't, I know that this is something that's going to be shared publicly and I don't know if I want you know, this is such a personal story, but I just really had the Holy Spirit like speak to me, like this, you need to share this, you know, on the internet, on your Bible study. And then, actually, the day that you contacted me for this podcast, I was on my way to work and I just had, like God, give me a word, like hey, you're going to be on a podcast. And I was like that's strange. I don't know what that means, like, and I was asking God. I was like I want clarification, like I'm not somebody who ever would think I'd be on a podcast, really, um, and what does that mean?
Speaker 2:And then you contacted me an hour later and I was like I think that like God was just giving me a heads up, like, hey, you need to do this podcast and not just be like, no, I don't know, because I feel like that kind of would have been my response If you had texted me to share my story. I probably would have been like, oh, I don't know if I want this on like a public episode. You know everybody's going to know who I am and you know I don't know if I want to share this publicly, maybe. And I just felt like God was kind of like that's why I feel like God, let me know, like you're going to be on a podcast, because he was like Jessica, you can't say no to this.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't think that's weird, I think that's amazing. I remember when you came on the Bible study and I don't think you knew that like it's an hour long and you went over the hour and we were all like, everyone was like no keep going, keep going.
Speaker 1:And my friend Sharon was really struggling that night I don't know if you remember and after you shared your story, like there was just some, like she was able to be so encouraged, there was a. It was just an encouraging thing that you would come on and you would share your story. And I think that's so beautiful, that when we share what God has done in our lives through Jesus, it just naturally is encouraging to other people. The story is your story is there's, there's, it's heartbreaking If we're being just like, if we're thinking about what is what all has happened, and it's, it's hurtful, it's painful, and I don't know where you're at with your folks right now and and and God loves them, and we're praying that they get a revelation of all of that. But I think your story go ahead with them.
Speaker 2:I probably, you know, try to keep it a little bit more minimalistic because I do not want, you know, I I just want them to see the love of Jesus and not get on any controversial topics with them, if that makes sense. But I've seen so much healing on my end where I'm able to have a conversation with them without feeling offense and praise the Lord.
Speaker 2:I feel like, also, you know, as far as you were talking about, like your story and like your testimony, you know it says in the Bible that you overcome by the blood of the lamb, and the word of your testimony, and I really believe I read that.
Speaker 2:You know, I grew up hearing that and but I didn't really like put it into light until I shared my testimony and I saw that in action with the homeless lady and then on your podcast, I was like, wow, like this is from God, like there is so much power, and when you share your testimony of things that God can do, and I just I did want to encourage anybody, um, who maybe is struggling at a similar situation as me. You're going to be okay and if you call upon the name of Jesus, you will be saved. There's no condemnation for you. You are a hundred percent loved by Jesus. You're okay. Jesus loves you, he's good, he has an amazing life that he has planned for you. And you know, don't, please, don't hesitate to reach out to me because I would love to talk you through it and just know that you have somebody.
Speaker 1:And Jessica, you know you're bringing up this verse. Paul says that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, for the law of the spirit of life has set you free, in Christ Jesus, from the law of sin and death. Then he says this for God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do by sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh. And for what that means is we couldn't have saved ourselves, we could not have done it. God knew that, so he sent Jesus as a representative of a human being, to condemn sin, so that those of us who walk in him could walk in victory. And so we're thinking well, there's nothing. He can't forgive me for this. He can't forgive me for this. It's too late. He already did. He has forgiven you.
Speaker 1:Jesus says truly. Truly if you believe the word and believe in the one who sent me, you have eternal life. Yeah, so the life you're living now is the eternal kind, it is the only life. Life that isn't this life that isn't found in Jesus is an actual life. It's just the walking dead. And so now I see you and I see your energy, I see the life force in you and that is Christ, in you, the hope of glory, and so I see it, I see it and I'm just praising the Lord for that. If you I want to get a little more specific here If there's a young lady who has experienced what you've experienced and has not found that forgiveness, doesn't understand that their white as snow, their sins are forgotten, what kind of encouragement could you give someone who's listening to this right now that's gone through your similar experience?
Speaker 2:I would say you know, just really press into God and know that you might feel like you're not enough or you're not forgiven from this, but that's not what Jesus says, and Jesus will free you. You just have to trust him that he is working everything out and everything in his timing. And even if it feels like everything is, the weight of whatever is going on in your life is pressing in on you. Jesus wants you to be free from that and I also would encourage you to try to find some people in your life, you know, and if you don't have somebody in your life, reach out to somebody, because it's so important to have somebody pray over you and know that you are not alone in your mistakes.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's what we're going to do right now.
Speaker 1:If you're listening to this and you've had that experience, if you've heard this whole story and you resonate, or if it's something else, some other sin, that you just feel like God is not able to forgive you you've gone too far then I just want to pray for you right now, father, as we're here.
Speaker 1:As we're here, we want a revelation of your forgiveness. We want a revelation of your love. We want to understand that this is how love has been manifested among us, that you sent Jesus so that we might live through him and that he would be the propitiation of our sin. And so we thank you that you have forgiven us and that you loved us, and that you have turned toward us while we were turned away from you, and that we have that forgiveness now, even if we don't feel it. And so if we're having a hard time believing that, father, we just ask that you give a revelation, that you give a bit of faith to that person who's struggling to believe that, and we believe that you will do that thing, because we're praying this prayer in Jesus's name.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Jessica, for sharing your story. You're a blessing to us. You're a testimony that God is love. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me on this podcast. Love so, thank you. Thank you so much for having me on this podcast and I really hope you know you know to help, even if it's just one person who's struggling like I did. I just want you to know that I promise you, God has so much better plans for you than what you expect.
Speaker 1:Amen.