Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#209: Carol Klinger: When Your Daughter's Freedom Becomes Your Own
Carol shares her journey from a people-pleasing, boundary-less upbringing to discovering the transformative power of the gospel later in life. Her testimony reveals how true freedom comes not from self-effort but from recognizing our complete identity in Christ.
• Raised in a multi-generational Adventist home without healthy boundaries
• Struggled with people-pleasing tendencies and inability to say "no"
• Marriage deteriorated despite regular church attendance and ministry involvement
• Experienced shocking moral failure that led to divorce and self-examination
• Found practical help through therapy but still lacked spiritual power
• Witnessed her daughter's dramatic transformation through understanding the gospel
• Finally understood what "Christ in me, the hope of glory" truly means
• Now experiences victory by asking Christ to manifest His character through her
• Currently involved in music ministry and spiritual warfare at her church
• Encourages others to surround themselves with people who understand gospel living
If you're feeling powerless against sin, know that your source must be God, not yourself. When you declare and claim your identity as God's forgiven child in Christ, that's where the power is.
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize how dangerous the ground I was on and I thought for sure God would stop it. I would say God, stop this, stop it. And then I'd go right back and they would get on. And at the time we didn't have these phones, but we could get online and you could chat online and I would just do it. It was like I was completely powerless In the flesh in that old covenant, trying to do it myself. Well, he didn't, he didn't stop, and I crossed a line enough to know, okay, my husband has grounds for divorce right now. And what am I going to do? I said, well, I got to fix this. I got myself into, I got to fix this. So the only way I could fix it was to leave town, leave the marriage, leave town. And that's what I did.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with Carol, and I love her heart, I love her energy and I love how she can just tell it like it is energy. And I love how she can just tell it like it is and have no shame in her game about how God has taken her from death to life and the trials that she had in her life and the lies that she believed. And this is, I think, now. We've had a few moms of previous guests before. I think that these episodes are just that much sweeter when it's a mom of someone that we've had before and that because of freedom here now there's freedom over here. So this is Carol. This is going to be a blessing. So buckle up, strap in, be blessed Love y' strap in, be blessed Love y'all, appreciate y'all.
Speaker 2:Well, I've always been Adventist, Several generations. My dad was very reserved, wonderful picture of god. I can't say enough about how important it is to have a father image that is like god. That brought me through a lot. My mother, on the other hand, was the opposite. Um, she had had some abuse as a child and carried shame, and so I I picked up on that shame some, but and then I always knew god loved me because dad always loved me, you know. But what gave me some bad?
Speaker 2:beginnings was neither of them had boundaries. Obviously, mom didn't have boundaries because of her abuse. Dad was very passive and was pretty much raised by a dominant sister, and so I wasn't raised with good boundaries. I was also passive. Pleaser, do as you're told. I would watch my brothers get in trouble and say, oh, I'm not going to do that, and so I stayed on out of trouble and so we can just skip right through grade school, high school, because I was just very obedient, I wasn't rebellious.
Speaker 1:What is having no boundaries? What does that mean?
Speaker 2:I couldn't say no, um, I didn't, I didn't know. I could say no, I didn't know, I wasn't shown that there were parts of me that were special and because my mom carried shame and nothing was special to her, her body was so and the body image and everything I just I received a poor body image and everything, because I think I was seeing that from my mom. But, um, yeah, people would walk all over my dad. Uh, just take advantage of him. He was a. He was a church school teacher and very conscientious, doing the grades for the kids. But if they, he tried to help them, but if they didn't want to help, he'd give them the grave grade they deserved and then he'd get fired because the kids weren't passing and stuff.
Speaker 2:But so I was attracting dominant friends telling me what to do and when did, and they I would, I would let them cross my boundaries. You know, take advantage of me. But I didn't have any Like abusive situations happening until I was an adult and away from the shelter. You know, you're as I've been. Just a lot of us are raised sheltered and so as long as I was in that sheltered environment I was fine. I didn't realize I had not the skills to be out there and handle those who are predators. And um, um and that came later, that's where.
Speaker 1:So you were a people pleaser. Yes, yeah, the thing with people pleasing is it's. It's actually and I think we know this now, I don't think we knew it when we were operating in it is it's a self-centered thing, it's you want to make sure you're okay, so I can help you, and then you'll like me, and then I'll be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that comes from a low self-worth, low view of yourself right.
Speaker 2:Right and authority figures oh, I had. They could easily make me cry, if you know, if I disappointed them, I was just, I just thought I was at the mercy of any authority figure, I had to please them, or or you know, I was terribly disappointed and they were disappointed in me and it was very important to me. Yeah, it meant a lot, and I was raised that anger was not okay. A lot of us, I think, are raised like that as Christians. You know anger is not okay, so I would not get angry. I don't know how it came out. I know everybody has anger, but I didn't.
Speaker 1:It never manifested as a child. So you, you were able to.
Speaker 2:You know, obedient kid you got through grade school and high school. God, who is God? Ok, so I always, I always knew God loved me. I had a strong belief that he was there, he was real. I believed in him. I did have my first encounter in high school. I went on a long walk they called it back walk and I remember when were you growing up? Huh, where'd you grow up? Okay, so I'm all over the Potomac Conference. My dad was a teacher and we moved every couple of years because he would give the grades that the kids did.
Speaker 1:Mercy.
Speaker 2:And the parents would run him off. So we were all over the Potomac Conference growing up.
Speaker 1:So was that like Maryland? Yeah, okay, yeah, okay. Um, yeah, and and then Did you go to Highland View Academy.
Speaker 2:Shenandoah.
Speaker 1:Shenandoah SVA. Okay, so they're maybe a little bit rivals. I'm not sure if they are. Maybe, I've been to both of them, so you were at, were you at SVA on this back walk or whatever?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that's why. I asked yeah, and I felt like he was hearing me and I didn't hear an audible voice or anything, but I just felt like close to him on that experience. And then, of course, I just got back into my life and Nothing major, nothing significant stands out to me during the high school years Death or life Just I know that he was there. Yeah. There wasn't any. Yeah, it was when I went to college that I I stumbled.
Speaker 1:Did you go to Columbia Union College?
Speaker 2:Southern.
Speaker 1:Southern okay.
Speaker 2:Southern, and so do we want to head there now.
Speaker 1:Sure, you lead the way.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I get to Southern and right off the bat, and the reason I'm going to Southern to meet a man, because I knew I wanted to be a hairdresser. I just knew and they didn't offer that I wasn't going to take that there, I was just going to take some generals and find me a man, a Christian Adventist man.
Speaker 1:Get that MRS degree.
Speaker 2:Exactly, southern Matrimony College, that's right. And and right off the bat, I meet Ron, my kid's dad, and he was funny and I loved to laugh. I just fell in love. He was a religion major at the time and just seemed to have. He could sing, I to sing, um, oh, I was head over heels and then I realized, oh, I should date around, you know. So we broke up for the school year but it was hopeless. I was in love, like.
Speaker 2:So we ended up back together because and the reason? Well, he was very aggressive physically and here's where my boundaries just I, I, it was like I couldn't, I couldn't say no and I was like, well, I'm not gonna, I was a virgin, I'm not gonna, you know, I've got to marry him, you know, I've got to marry. So I called my parents and I'm like I gotta marry him. Mom knew exactly, mom knew exactly what. What was happening she goes, she goes, don't marry him, just have sex. That's not good advice, you know, that's not good advice. And so I ended up, uh, going ahead and marrying him can I tell you a story?
Speaker 1:this just reminds me my grandmother, who passed away this year, and I love, I love her, uh, wonderful woman. This was in the late 60s, early 70s maybe, where she came. She has four kids my dad and his sister, two brothers. She came down the stairs one day and she was like you know what guys, I think it's okay if you want to have sex before you're married. And they weren't Christian, but they were just very good, moral people, yeah, and all of the kids, all four kids, were like no, like no, we don't think that's right, like no. And like I said, my dad became an Adventist when he became a senior in high school. That's when he became an Adventist, but that's it just reminded me, your, me, your mom's like no, don't marry that guy, like that's a bad idea, like just do that. And you're probably like like double guilt, right, or something. Like it's hitting you coming and going.
Speaker 2:You're like no, this isn't it and dad was too passive to speak over mom. You know he's not going to stand. So I marry him and you know everything's great for a while we got. We had a Christian band. My brother, david Youngberg, was very musical and he always had a dream of a band, so we called it, he called it east wind and we we tried. We had drums.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, this was back in the 80s and uh, and we got to play at the girl storm chapel. It was. It was funny, because they didn't realize we were having trouble and we could see here come, the women's dean marching up, getting ready to shut us down, and somebody stopped her. Somebody stood up and stopped her and we got to go ahead and play, but of course we weren't invited. But you know, it was a great experience because we'd set up in parks and just saying, you know, musicians have to sing. You just got to do it and, um, it was a good time. You know god, god uses us, you know, in spite of us sometimes, but anyway, that ended up. My, my husband, wanted to witness to his brother who was in North Carolina, so we moved, that's when we moved back to North Carolina. That would have been in in early 80s and um and that backfired.
Speaker 2:Uh, just not going to go into to Ronon's story because it's still happening and I you know that's his story yeah I'm going to focus on mine, but um so let me see things were started getting rocky in the marriage uh, how many years in is this?
Speaker 2:this is probably, maybe within about four, four or five years. Um, because that backfired on him. There was some alcohol and um and self-selfishness and neglect and stuff that. That he was funny, you know he would. He would say things that were cutting, but they were so funny I'd laugh. You know it's like I later told my kids don't ever cut your spouse down, even though it's funny. Don't do it, because it will leave them vulnerable. They don't even realize it. But so I started. You know the romance novels. You know you want to escape out of that reality. You want to escape out of that reality and I was self-help books.
Speaker 2:Maybe there's something wrong with me, but all the while we were going to church, we'd go to church, we'd take the kids into church, we were involved at church, the kids in the church, we were involved at church, um, but I then ended up starting to fantasize and looking back. You know we're in the book of james where it says you know that sin starts in your mind and then you dwell on it and it grows and then, well, but I'm here to tell you that's exactly what happens. You think, well, I'm just, it's all in my mind, nobody knows, nobody's. You know it's not hurting anybody. But then you end up crossing lines and stuff and I never, ever thought I would even go anywhere near an affair. Never, not me, I mean, I wouldn't even tell a lie, I mean I was. You know, this was so shocking to me I would draw a line in the sand Not going to do this, and then cross the line. We ended up.
Speaker 2:My brother moved to North Carolina. We had the band going again. We did a CD. We were singing for the Lord, writing songs. It was amazing. Then this started happening. I was so shocked, you know, I was like, well, the devil's trying to mess it up. I would go out into the woods and just beg God to stop it, because I was powerless.
Speaker 1:And this was just with somebody that you had known before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had. It was somebody that I had looked up to. You know, I thought they were good man and just showed me a little attention, Just it was like I was vulnerable and didn't even know it, Didn't realize how, how, you know how dangerous ground I was on and I thought for sure God would stop it. I would say God, stop this, Stop it. And then I'd go right back and they would get on and at the time we didn't have these phones but we could get online and you could chat online and I would just do it. It was like I was completely powerless In the flesh in that old covenant, trying to do it myself. Well, he didn't, he didn't stop and I crossed a line enough to know, okay, my husband has grounds for divorce right now and what am I going to do?
Speaker 2:I said well, I got to fix this, I got myself into, I got to fix this, I got myself into, I got to fix this. So the only way I could fix it was to leave town, leave the marriage, leave town, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1:And how was that? How was leaving town? The solution in your mind, get away from.
Speaker 2:Get away from this, this temptation and um. And I also could see that the marriage was of course I. I know now that I should not have been putting my spouse as a source, you know, to fulfill me, but I could see at the time he was not nurturing me and I would just if I stayed there, I'd just do it again. He wasn't able to be the man I thought he should be and um, if, if we're putting somebody else as the source of our happiness.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you think about it, how often does that really work out, where you're like this person, like you get married on your wedding day, you're like I don't need anything else, but you, baby, like this. Is it so late? Yeah, how long does that last for that person to be able to be your happiness? And if they are your happiness, then they're on the line for it, right. So, and then? If that's not working out the way you want, well, how am I going to be happy?
Speaker 1:well, oh, this person makes me feel good, this person makes me feel loved, this person makes me feel cherished yeah and we play the same game, but now it's with somebody else yeah and uh, in the end is is just suffering, right yeah, it's a trap, it's a deception.
Speaker 2:Your source has to be god, has to be well, and I was in ignorance. I I had that wasn't even in my mind. I had to save myself. You know, that's what was in my mind, because god didn't step in. I had to save myself. Did you get a?
Speaker 1:divorce, or did you just leave town?
Speaker 2:I was definitely going for the separation and if he had gotten into therapy himself. I got into therapy immediately Because I was like I don't want to fall into that, I don't want a different animal. That's saying, you know what I'm saying. I needed to know why I was attracted to that and I needed to know what healthy looked like. So I got into therapy and I tried to get him to go and he wouldn't go for himself. He said I'll just go with you. I was like no, you need to go for yourself. And he wouldn't.
Speaker 2:And therapy I just have to put a plug in for therapy. I know it's not god necessarily, but when you've been raised a certain way and you think that's normal, it's good to go to therapy to find out what normal is, because it may not be normal at all. And um, and you have somebody that you can bounce thoughts off of and they're like no, this is normal and you're here. And so during the separation I had vulnerable written right across my forehead because I was attracting riffraff and predator type. I would literally have to run At work, out of our works at a nursing home and there would be like this male nurse. I had to run out of the room because he was trying to corner me it's like what? And I couldn't say it. I couldn't say get away from me. I had to wait and call him and say don't ever do that again. I could say it over the phone but I couldn't say it. Um, this is the boundaries coming in and my value as a, as a my, but um, so therapy.
Speaker 2:By the end of the year I went like every other week. By the end of the year I went like every other week. By the end of the year I was holding myself with confidence. I could say no to anybody, nicely, respectfully. You know, people are asking you to do stuff and it's just too much. I was able to say no, anybody try.
Speaker 2:I wasn't attracting predator hugs anymore. Even my friends before were very dominant girlfriends. It was like my daughter asked me why do you always have these friends that are so telling you what to do all the time? Well, I was able to have boundaries now. It was so important. Let me see when am I going now. But all through this, there was no power. In my religious experience there was no power. I hadn't found that yet and God was going to show me where the power was, but I hadn't gotten to that yet. So anyway, at the end of the year of therapy, you know, of course I'm lonely and somebody suggests ASC Adventist Singles Connection, and this is where I could start recognizing healthy. I would get chats and I could say that one's a mess, you can just recognize it.
Speaker 1:So, by this point, you guys maybe I missed this point you guys had decided to call it off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had to force. Well, yeah, he had ended up before he married. Within a month or two after the year was over, we got the divorce and he ended up remarrying, and so I just started going ahead and started dating.
Speaker 1:Was that the divorce, the finalizing of the divorce? Was that a shock to you? Was that something?
Speaker 2:No, at the time I was, I was ready. I was ready because he hadn't changed or anything. He wasn't. He was out During the whole time. He was doing stuff that you know, trying to hurt me and, I guess, trying to make me come back.
Speaker 1:So this was. You'd seen it coming for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know, you know, I know God takes us where we're at. If I had chose to stay, god would have took it, took care of it, looking back, but at the time I was in this I have to take care of myself and that's just where I was. But but it's like I never got angry at god. I never blamed him, I never. I just didn't understand why he didn't stop it, and one of these days I'll I'll find that out.
Speaker 1:You know what we have free agency God. God lets us make decisions. You know, why didn't God stop it? I don't know. I hear the question, but I'm not sure if it's the right one. We were not listening, even if he would have been like hey, richard, you should have done this, or love. And I'm so wrapped up in my own feelings that God's over here like hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, look at this, read this. And I'm over here, just in my feelings.
Speaker 2:Right, and at the time I didn't know you could hear from God that way. That didn't come until could hear from God that way. I that didn't till come till just about recently but and I always pictured God is out there somewhere not in here. There's so many things I've, I've but, um, so yeah.
Speaker 2:So I went ahead and found dean and just a really good man, um, respectful, unselfish, uh a really good example for heidi at the time. She was a teenager and she, uh, her, her dad was not very respectful of women and she need to find a mate for heidi, she needs to see what a good man looked like, and so dean came along, just the perfect time for her.
Speaker 2:She found jason that's proof jason's such a good man. So so, all right, let me see. So Dean and I have been married. I was married to Ron for 23 years and Dean and I have been married almost 19. And I want to say I've always been attracted to the gospel. Whenever I heard the gospel preached, I loved it, and when a speaker was speaking, the gospel I could I'll never forget. Morse Benden was speaking at Camp Meeting one time and I was like, oh, I just want to hug him. And I remember passing him in the hall and I went to hug him and he goes. I know it wasn't appropriate, but it's like I saw Jesus in him and I just wanted to hug him.
Speaker 1:But I was it about the gospel.
Speaker 2:What is it that, when you would hear the grace, the grace that you know no one out there is any better than you. And when you, when I walk into a church, I don't have to worry about oh, they're all looking at me and they're better than me. No, we're all equal at the foot of the cross, you know, and I can't, I don't have to to worry about measuring up up and just the righteous by faith. That message is beautiful, and I didn't know how to apply it to myself yet, but it's like I loved it, and so I remember my oldest son was getting into the 1880 message Jones and Wagner, and I got hold of some of that. Oh, just beautiful. But see, it's like it was in my head. I knew it, I recognized it, but it hadn't gotten to my heart yet.
Speaker 2:And so, fast forward to 2022, and I'm just going through the motions. I've always been in music. I've either led a praise team or been on a praise team, or and um. So I feel like I was doing all I knew to do, living up to all I know to do, but I wasn't. There wasn't power. I didn't see victory. I just figured, well, there needs to be victory, but it's like I didn't see victory in my life or those around me.
Speaker 1:Yo, real quick, don't fast forward. I want you to hear this cool thing that I saw in the reviews for Death to Life. Someone said a friend turned me on to this podcast and at the time I didn't know what impact it would have on my life. I started asking so many questions about Jesus and what he did for me that now I know the truth of who. I am Thanks for doing this Love hearing about people finding their freedom in Jesus.
Speaker 1:Would love some updated stories on how this has played out for people. We're going to keep putting out the updated stories and we're going to keep doing that, and I just wanted to highlight that because I want to say thank you to the folks who are donating so that we can continue to do this. The reason we're able to do this ministry is because people go to loverealityorg and they donate of their hard-earned finances to keep this ministry going. This ministry is ran by y'all and your generosity, so I just want to urge you that this is making a difference. This is making an impact for the kingdom of God through these stories and through you and your donations. So thank you so much. Go to wwwloverealityorg and we just want this mug to keep going so um. With that all being said, let's get back into the episode but then heidi and jason go.
Speaker 2:It was a groft. It was. Uh, elias and his wife did a a marriage seminar, slash anxiety or something, and heidi at the time had crippling anxiety. I didn't understand what was happening with her because I had never had that in my family. Um, there was some on her dad's family, but she couldn't even leave the house and this it was just terrible and and she would just cry, she'd call me and be crying in a panic attack and stuff, and Jason wasn't able to help her at the time. And but when she went to this, I get this call and she's telling me it's gone, the anxiety is gone.
Speaker 2:I'm like what? And they were in North Carolina when I was in Tennessee at the time and I'm like tell me more what's happening. And then shortly after that, we are to go to Florida to to visit with my oldest son and I was going to need to ride in the car with Heidi and Jason all the way to Florida and I was like, ok, you know I'm going to pick up, you know if this is real or not. And I was like, ok, you know, I'm going to pick up, you know if this is real or not. You know I've got what eight hours to sit with them, and I was blown away.
Speaker 1:I mean, what was the main thing that they like, the thing that they were saying?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was their life, their life was changed. Richard, I've never seen, I've heard about it, you know, lives being changed. I've never seen, I've heard about it. You know, lives being changed. I had never seen it.
Speaker 2:And this was my daughter, um, she used to be uh kind of a controlling, you know, worried all the time, um, dominant with Jasonason's always been real quiet, you know. And jason was talking. Jason was talking just as much as heidi about you know what they were learning in this gospel and and uh, and heidi was just at peace, she was there, was no, I mean, she was just total new new life. And uh, talking about how, you know, the anxiety was outside of her, trying to get back in, and she, she, that concept is what's really struck her, that she wasn't like she didn't have to identify with that and uh, and of course, she grew even more after that. But that obvious life change hit me and it's like, okay, there's, this is power, this, this is power. And I'm. I did a deep dive into love reality, first off, because I wanted to be sure this wasn't spiritual formation, because I'm very familiar with that is that, what is okay so this is like a counterfeit.
Speaker 2:This is, uh, mysticism, east, middle eastern, meditation and um, I know the authors, like, if I hear an author mentioned, it's like morning and you know, like. You know like Thomas Merton or Loyola the Desert Fathers.
Speaker 1:Oh, so those are. Thomas Merton is a Catholic monk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is all this. Jesuit, richard Foster, you know the disciplines and where they have. You go into this like mindlessness and and then you know there's steps you take to open up your mind and then your spirit guide will start speaking to you. So I'm hearing you all talk about the secret place. I'm like, let me, and I looked at all your resources and there was absolutely no spiritual formation authors you actually had, you know, like Steps to Christ. You had Jones and Wagner lessons on faith in there. I'm like, wow, you know, this is, this is good.
Speaker 2:I went ahead and read no Longer. I went ahead and read, um, no longer. I jay kachkis's book. Yeah, yes, I read that like twice. I I ordered um jonathan's book read really getting hammered and and I'm, I'm looking into this and I'm like this is not. You know, they're saying, oh, you guys are blah, blah, blah saying this and saying this and this and I'm like, well, I read all that and I said you guys aren't saying what they're. They say you're saying and, um, so I, I'm the, I'm at my age. I'm like I'm gonna look. You know, I'm going by what god is showing me. I'm not gonna go by what my pastor says, or my sons have to say you know, I'm gonna look into it for myself. And I just, and that course threw me back into scripture, you got, you know, romans six and Colossians and Ephesians, and it was. Things were just popping out at me. I read them all my life. I'm 64. I read these things. They were like out here cliches and sounding nice, but now they were coming in.
Speaker 1:Why? What's the difference?
Speaker 2:It's like I see it as a veil. It was like I was ready and when I saw there was power to change a life, the veil came off and it was like I could see it. I could see it now and it was real. It was christ in me, the hope of glory. Um, that used to be just a cliche. What does that mean? I don't even know what that means, but I know what it means now. Now, and then the identity oh it's. It changed my life and I, of course, we all want to share it, right, and like, like Heidi, did you want to share it? And you get hammered. And, uh, I wasn't as hammered as hard as she was, because I think I feel like I was a little stronger in what I had already believed and I wasn't allowing people to affect my beliefs as much. So I started sharing it. I had a fellowship group that I went to every Friday night and I started sharing it with him and you know I get that little.
Speaker 2:Oh, bless your heart, you're so yeah you're so happy, I'm so happy for you, but there is something you have to do and I'm like, what, what do I have to do? And oh, there's something you have to do. And I was like, and I could tell they weren't seeing it. And they were. Their hearts are in the right place of trying to. But I could see now legalism was starting to get clearer. Now, what was it before? I would fall back into it in and out, in and out the like the roman seven, that was that was happening and yeah, how would you like?
Speaker 1:I've always said that I've never met a legalistic person who knows they're legalistic. I think only in hindsight you could see oh I, I was, I was legalistic. Yeah, what, what did your legalism look like? Or how did you know that?
Speaker 2:like later, oh, I was, and yeah, describe that yeah, I, I knew that it was christ in me that was going to do anything good in me. Um, and what happened? What happened with this fellowship group is I thought I could go in there and be strong and and keep standing up for, you know, the new covenant, and they would start speaking to the point where I would come away confused. And that scared me because it was like it's so deceptive. Legalism is so deceptive because it sounds OK. You know well, we need to be careful, you know what we eat or drink or touch or you know, and so it's OK to Worry about our actions and things, but it's so deceptive that you get tied back into doing it yourself. And it's so important to know you can't, you're helpless.
Speaker 2:And they'll say, oh, I believe all that. I believe, yes, you're saved by faith. You know they say all the right things, and yet they I'll hear a statement or in a prayer, or you know, like I would hear. I wonder if we should just pray to the Father, and I'm like, what would make you say that, should we just pray to the Father? I said, well, doesn't Jesus want to talk to us? And and or they would um say, should we say something?
Speaker 1:if we're sitting next to someone what has a lot of jewelry on, should we say something? Yeah, no, tell them no, no, please tell them that the righteousness of god in christ yes and um, those are like more obvious stuff.
Speaker 2:But then they would get into little stuff, little insignificant things that would suck me in and I would come away feeling confused and and I would say, okay, I'm not ready yet or something, because I don't want to go into there, surrounded by, and I even told God, I said, if just one of them, if just one of them gets it, if one of them sees, if one of them sees the gospel, and I'll go back in because at least I can feel like I can bounce off, we can stand up for, for the truth there. And and so one of them, we went to a. I don't know if you've ever heard of mark sandoval. I don't think so.
Speaker 2:He, he is, he's got new paradigm ministries and he's he's really talking about our source needs to be christ and and um, and it's a. It's a really great um series and I watched it like three times in a row and she, she even bought the series and then, uh, watched it. She watched it at the, at the live, and then didn't, she forgot about it. It's like you know that text where it says, you, you go to the mirror and you see james and then you walk away and you forget, and that's what happened.
Speaker 2:I was like so I had started going back with the group and then I started getting all this confusion stuff going on and I I stopped, I just stopped going and, um, I care about them, but it's like a different gospel, it's a different well, there's only one yeah so if it's different, that I mean there is only one gospel and and their focus is on, you know, performance and oh, we got to stand up for our rights.
Speaker 2:They're all wrapped up in this conrad vine and ron kelly business and signing the petitions and, uh, saying bad things about our leadership and I, I just and leave. And then they left. They left our church, they went to, left, they left our church, they went to, they left our church because we have a woman elder. And I'm like, well, even if you think that's wrong, why would you leave the church, the family, you know? I was like, shouldn't our focus be on the church family? And then some of them were like, well, we're not going to go to any more church socials because it's frivolous. And I'm like, well, how else are you going to get to know your church family? This is, this is where you can build up the church family.
Speaker 2:You don't do that in church. You're worshiping God there. You don't have much time in a pot like whoever you're sitting by maybe. Church, you're worshiping god there. You don't have much time and it potlucked your whoever you're sitting by, maybe. But church socials is where you can go around and and build, build up the church family and get to know them. Um, but it was nothing I was saying was getting through, but um, but we, we have a wonderful pastor in our church now that preaches. He's already preached on Romans 6, the whole book of Romans, and I'm just so thankful because our previous pastor was not.
Speaker 1:So what was the new lens that you were looking at Scripture with when this all came alive?
Speaker 2:I could see where I'm complete in Christ and we have access to all the fullness of godhead, and these types of things are coming out that if we are in christ, we can ask him to manifest his love or manifest his peace, or and that's where victory started happening because instead of me mustering up the strength to not get road rage, I can now say Lord, I need your patience right now. Please manifest your patience towards these drivers that are trying to cut me off. You know, maybe they're in a big hurry I don't need to be in a hurry and after like three times of road rage taken over, it's like I don't have it, and if it tries to come back, I immediately lord. You know, I need your patience. So we have access to that um, and now it's like god has is putting me to work. He's putting me a a desire to serve, because now I'm not focused on me, I'm not focused on my sins. That's, that's in god, that's you know.
Speaker 2:I trust what the word says about that. He's he's taken my sin, he's um taken my sinful nature. He's given me his righteousness and his zoe life um going forward. He is living out his life in me now and and the minute I get fearful or, oh, I've got to get up front, say something. I realize. Oh, those, the audience is not my source. God is my source and he will speak through me. Um, getting ready to do this testimony, there's always that temptation to get fearful. What am I going to say? What am I going to say? Say, but this is to honor, glorify God, if there's anything I can say or do that will bring him honor and glory and help someone else to find this new life. That's what it's all about. But I've got some really exciting things. It's like once Heidi has moved. Now Heidi has moved here and we've been, I've been able to help. She's going to need a part two.
Speaker 1:She's going to need a part two. That'll be fun.
Speaker 2:But things are. Just have you heard of jamie winship?
Speaker 1:I have. Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of his stuff.
Speaker 2:I know jadra loves jamie winship okay, well, she spent hiding some of his videos and and, of course, I got hold of that and now we're we're just experiencing this um, hearing his voice, you know, and the and his sheep will recognize his voice and and uh, so it, and we're finding out what our spiritual gifts are and we're using them. Um, I have uh, of course, I'm back in the music at church leading praise. I believe I'm a temple, temple musician. That's one of my identities, according to Winship, because you ask God, you say Lord, what do you call me? And you wait for him to tell you what he calls you. And I'm a temple musician.
Speaker 2:It's like if I was just a musician, I'd want to play all the time, and I'm not. I'm not always playing the piano or singing, uh, writing music and stuff, but I love being in the church. I mean, my husband are in a choir, singing in a choir to different churches, um, but um, so I uh being called into spiritual warfare. You had um Addison Collinsworth, uh, you put up one of his recent uh, part two. Yeah, did you listen to it?
Speaker 2:Yes, the last half where he's talking about the healing and, uh, that went right along with what I'm starting to do in spiritual warfare. Years ago I had a couple of dreams where I was, I had to face an evil presence and it's like I felt like God has always called me to that. But I've been preparing, God's been preparing me, God's been preparing me and I finally got connected, just maybe a month ago, with three other women that are doing this prayer warfare, and so every couple of weeks we get together and we've had students come in and be prayed over and one of our members has. I call it the gift of prophecy, because she'll pray over you and she can see, she sees things and very insightful.
Speaker 1:This is interesting, because you used to be afraid of things that were spiritual, but now it seems like you know how to test the spirit. You know what's coming from God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm not as strong as them, like I don't see things, but I'm not afraid of it. No, I believe God is protecting me and and, um, obviously, um, because, uh, anyway, I'll, there's going to be a story from my husband coming. We, just we, we we've been praying for him and and it's going to involve some of that spiritual warfare, but, um, I'm, I'm just, it's like god is saying time is short, you know, and he's just all the setting, uh, giving us work to do and and whatever your gift is, um, he wants to use it. You know, um saving souls, there's, um, you know, I'm, I'm, like, I'm a vessel. Now I am, it's not me, I just want to be used by him.
Speaker 2:This is not about me, um, I am an instrument of his peace, his righteousness, and, yeah, I've, I've been through the death, I've been through the roman seven experience and now, um, I am in christ and I put on that spiritual armor every morning. You know, the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, the belt of truth, the shoes, the gospel shoes, and the, the shield of faith and the sword of the spirit, and I love getting into the word um and just asking god to show me. You know, what do you want me to know today? Like, like Jamie Winship says, when we talk to God, don't don't need to ask the why questions, but ask what do you want me to know about this? And then, what do you want me to do? And he, he'll tell you through his word, or sometimes in in, through the spirit in your mind.
Speaker 1:Good, stuff Sounds like this is your life.
Speaker 2:It's my life.
Speaker 1:So what would you tell? Uh, carol, if you ran into Carol from you know you pick a time that you would want to run into Carol, Carol who's living with guilt condemnation. Shame Carol, who didn't know who she was.
Speaker 2:What would you tell her? There is power when you get into the word and it says you are a child of God, you are in Christ, your sins are forgiven. When you declare that and claim it, that's where the power is. You have to acknowledge it, bring it in and then surround yourself. Surround yourself with friends that know what it means to be in christ, someone you can share, find encouragement when you are beaten down and serve. Ask God, what can I do? This is not about you. This is about Christ and what he can do through you and what he wants to do in you. But that's where the power is.
Speaker 1:Amen. Yeah, if you're listening to this and you want to experience that power, then what I would offer is that first you need to have conviction that whatever God says about you is true. So much of the time we want to experience power without attaching faith to the word, and if that's where you're at, then I just want to pray for you right now. Father in heaven, give us spiritual eyesight through your Holy Spirit, so that we can see that you have accomplished everything by your word, and by your word only, and that we have it now, and so that we can see with a single eye what you have done and anything that says differently we can reject. So give us the single eye that floods our whole body with light so that we can move in the grace that you have for us through the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and we pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen, amen.
Speaker 1:Carol, you are a testimony to me. When I was speaking in Chattanooga a few weeks ago and I saw you and Heidi come in, I was just excited because you have eternal life. The quality of your life is eternal. It's contagious. Like I see your love for the gospel, I see your love for God's people and for people who don't understand this, and that's what it's all about. I see it and I love it, and I just thank you for receiving God's love. Praise God, amen. Thank you for coming on. Thank you.