Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#215: Frank Paine, Breaking Free from Porn's Chains
Frank Paine shares his journey from a devastating pornography addiction and legalism to finding freedom through understanding his identity in Christ. After years of smashing laptops, crying in closets, and feeling condemned, Frank discovered that true freedom comes not from trying harder but from embracing who God says he is.
• Grew up with minimal religious background but felt drawn to God from childhood
• Struggled with pornography addiction for over a decade
• Experienced crushing shame and believed God was punishing him for his failures
• Tried various solutions including Celebrate Recovery, Pentecostal and Adventist churches
• Battled legalism that made him believe his salvation depended on his behavior
• Discovered Love Reality Bible Studies in 2022, which transformed his understanding
• Learned that his identity is rooted in Christ, not in his behavior
• Found freedom by believing what God says about him rather than identifying with his sin
• Began working with a life coach who helped him apply gospel truth to daily living
• Now ministers to others struggling with similar issues
If you're trapped in cycles of shame and addiction, stop identifying with what you're doing and start identifying with what God's Word says about you in spite of what you're doing. The freedom you seek comes from believing the truth about your identity in Christ.
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:I had this closet in my apartment where I would go in there because I remember how it says in Jesus says you know, go into your closet and shut the door and pray to God in secret. So I use that as like my prayer closet, that all these papers up on the wall of different scriptures and different reminders, and I would curl up in a ball and I would weep and I would beg God to take this out of my life. Please, god, save me from this. And I remember a time I literally took the laptop. I just got done viewing pornography and I took the laptop and I just became so enraged that I grabbed my laptop and I began to smash it violently into the floor into pieces.
Speaker 1:What's up everybody. This is the death of life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with a brother of mine, uh, who's been around our community for a while, but I never knew his story until I got it the other day. This episode is with Frank Payne, and Frank is so honest, he's so sincere, he's so genuine, a guy who always was loving and wanted to know, but was living under some deception and some lies. And to just hear him tell a story, man, it's a beautiful thing, it's going to be a blessing to you. He's been on a journey and God has just showed him how much he is loved. And Frank just goes after it. So buckle up, strap in. This is going to be Frank Payne Love y'all, appreciate y'all. So, man, what's the background? I know you have an Adventist background, but how far back does the Adventism go?
Speaker 2:I'm not very. I mean Adventism, I think for me goes all the way back and so early it's maybe like 2014, 2015.
Speaker 1:Oh, your parents aren't Adventist.
Speaker 2:No, I wasn't raised Adventist what?
Speaker 1:Well, were your parents Christians.
Speaker 2:My mom, I would like to say when we were younger that we're baptist, but we never went to church, though she encouraged us to go to church because the baptist church bus would come around our trailer park and pick people up on sunday morning. So, uh, they would knock on the door, give us flyers and my parents, like, encouraged us, me and my siblings, to go.
Speaker 1:And we went to the baptist church, but otherwise no so, growing up, what did was who was God to you growing up?
Speaker 2:Well, when I was going to the Baptist church I didn't really think much of God, it was more so just, I go to. I go to this place because they give us snacks and they give us little toys on the bus and everything you know for going to church. And you know, I found sitting in church to be boring. It was just like it's this long, lengthy, you know dialogue with this guy's up on the pulpit talking and I'm just sitting there can't wait for it to be over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be that, it certainly can be that.
Speaker 1:So you grew up, but kind of Baptist, but not really yeah, not really practicing, just kind of went to church. That's about it.
Speaker 2:So where did you get your spiritual background, like how I used to think that I I got saved, back in when I was 21 or 22, back in 2010. But actually when I started thinking about it, I would like to say God first started drawing me to him back in that Baptist church, because I remember they had this thing called Bible time, which was vacation Bible school, but they called it Bible time, right. And I used to love it because I used to hang out with kids my own age and we'd play games like soccer, football, just little field games and stuff. And I remember we were sitting in one of the youth classes and one of the the youth pastor was talking about do you want to accept Jesus into your life? And I raised my hand and they took me into the back corner with you know, they took a bunch of people, they took me, you know, one-on-one with somebody, and they said do you want to accept Jesus into your life? Right now? I'm like yeah. And so he went through the whole field like you know, lord, I receive you, I accept you into my life, thank you for your sacrifice for me and stuff like that, and I received God during that time.
Speaker 2:I used to think that, oh, unless I'm living for God, I haven't received him. But actually I would like to say that God actually started drawing me to him at that Baptist church during that time because I was sincere within my you know, young teenage mindset and heart. Like I was sincere, I didn't do it just because, like you know well, they told me to, so let me just do it. I was sincere at that time. So I would like to say that after that.
Speaker 2:The reason I say that now is because when I look back, I can literally see how God's hand was in my life, even as a young, like 12, 13 year old boy. I could see how God's hand was in my life because I would feel convictions about things like in my life, like, whereas my other friends, they just didn't care, like my friends would smoke weed, like for 13 and 14, all the way through 15 and 16. I would hang out with these guys who smoked pot and did all these things, but yet part of me was like I don't really know about that, like I would do it, you know, because of the peer pressure, but I sensed like there was something tugging on my heart saying that that's not something you should be doing.
Speaker 1:So how like? You did a little bit, but you really didn't dive all the way in and become a smoker. I never liked it, no.
Speaker 2:I never enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I just did it because my friends were doing it and I was hanging out with them and I didn't want to be the odd man out, so it didn't calm you or make you more comfortable.
Speaker 2:it I know, I know it gave me the best sleep of my life. I slept like a baby, but other than that, not really all right.
Speaker 1:So you're like man, I can sleep, I don't need, I don't need this. So, uh, yeah, that's interesting, you're seeing you know that's I've noticed. That about you is that you are a very sincere dude. Yeah, you, you've kind of always been sincere, hmm, always. Yeah, that's, that's, that's beautiful. So, uh, in what were you like 2010? You said you were like 14 or something like that. Well, 2010, I was 21.
Speaker 2:See, if you want me to dive into when I've actually started walking with God and actually, yeah, man, tell us you, you, you lead the way.
Speaker 2:So, uh, years after that, I would say so. I went when I was 18,. I graduated high school, I got a job and then, I think when I was like 19, I moved to Ohio and I worked as a lifeguard in Ohio, at Kalahari in Sandusky, and I lived there for about a year and nine months or a year and a half, something like that, and then I came back to Michigan.
Speaker 1:But you're from Michigan.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm from Michigan. I moved there with a friend because I was looking for work and I couldn't find work in Michigan and my friend was like oh well, come stay with me and my grandma in Ohio and you can apply for Kalahari and see if you can get a job there.
Speaker 1:And it ended up happening. What part of Michigan did you grow up in?
Speaker 2:Metro Detroit, near Detroit. So I grew up in Taylor, taylor, romulus, michigan, area like that, like between Taylor and romulus so so are there more michigan or michigan state fans up there probably a little bit of both michigan and michigan state, because we're, I guess belleville is closer to ann arbor, so ann arbor would be big time. Michigan and michigan state would be more, so maybe ipsy so are you.
Speaker 1:Do you get? You don't care about college sports, because I know you're have. Do you get you don't care about college sports because I know you're a lions fan, but you don't care about I'm I just I'm a brand new lions fan.
Speaker 2:Just last year I started watching as they became pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as they be the chief's opening day. Yeah, okay, so you're you. You moved back to michigan. Yeah, what happened?
Speaker 2:I. I moved back to michigan, uh, because I lost my job at Kalahari. I ended up getting fired from there.
Speaker 1:Why'd you?
Speaker 2:get fired.
Speaker 2:It wasn't my fault man it's never our fault, man, it's never our fault. I was working one of the slides the water slides and we had a new person there and they were like oh, we need to send this raft down. We can't send the guests down on it because it's too deflated, it's not pumped up enough, we need to just send it down by itself. I'm like we can't do that, because if we do, it's going to get stuck on that first drop. And they're like no, they just kind of pushed me aside and threw it down anyway. And what happened? It got stuck and we sent the people down and they hit it. It came up and hit someone in the head and they went and reported it and I was the one working the slides. So guess who got in trouble for it? I did.
Speaker 1:Man If anyone's listening to this working in Sandusky at the call hard man, that's messed up. Free Frank, free Frank.
Speaker 2:I tried finding work after that for a while and I just couldn't. So, uh, my parents said, yeah, you can come. You can come back home, and you know doors always open, you know, I knew it was always open. So I came home. And you can come back home, and you know doors always open, you know I knew it was always open. So I came home.
Speaker 2:And after that is when I I knew this guy, my friend Sam. I knew him in high school since ninth grade and when I came back we always stayed in touch, even when I was in Ohio. But when I came back we started hanging out even more and he started taking me to church, to this Pentecostal church that he attended, and I started going to church with him there. And that is when I started experiencing God more in my life, where I started to pray more. I started to read God's word more, I started to actually start fasting and praying more and I started to experience this change in my life where I did like I gave up alcohol, cold turkey. I used to social drink alcohol and beer with my friends. You know, maybe every other weekend or every month or whatever, we'd hang out and I'd drink beer and get drunk with my friends and I literally just quit it. Cold turkey. I was just like I don't want this anymore and I just gave it up.
Speaker 1:Well, the conviction was was for health, or or did you think God was not happy with alcohol? What was the main conviction?
Speaker 2:I can't really remember. I don't remember if it was my friend who is ministering to me that told me I shouldn't be doing that, or if it was just a conviction, like something I felt like I just need to stop doing. If it was just a conviction, like something I felt like I just need to stop doing, right, because we'll dive into a little bit of my mental health and how that changed and how legalism started to creep into my life. But at that time it wasn't that it didn't happen yet I was actually still like I didn't really feel like I was being forced or if I don't do this, god's mad at me type of thing. No, I just felt like this conviction that that needs to leave my life.
Speaker 1:Good for you, man.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I started. I started going to church and I it was a Pentecostal church, so it was a big difference from the Baptist church that I was used to going to Cause it it was. The Baptist church was very quiet, like you know mellow hymns and Pentecostal church was upbeat drums like shouting, singing, dancing running around the church. It was rolling in the pews.
Speaker 1:You said what Rolling in the pews like getting crazy in the pews.
Speaker 2:People running around with flags and falling over, so I'm covering them with a blanket and stuff like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mercy, so did you like that?
Speaker 2:I did because the upbeat music I really I really enjoyed that and at that point I felt like I experienced God through that, like I would lift my hands, I would find myself crying more and surrendering more in that atmosphere. Uh, whereas in the Baptist church I was young and I just like this is boring, I don't really care about this type of thing.
Speaker 1:All right. So what were you grabbing about God at this point?
Speaker 2:What was I what?
Speaker 1:What were you grabbing about God at this point? What was like something about who he was, that you were holding on to Just that?
Speaker 2:I just noticed that my life was, my life felt different.
Speaker 2:I felt like I had a purpose, whereas because when I, when I grew up and in my teens, I didn't have the best of friends, like all the guys that I would hang out with, who I was drinking and smoking pot with, like this dude, like my, my close friend, j, like he would actually belittle me and call me names and treat me like garbage, like he would call me idiot, moron, retard, like stupid, like all those things Like, and I and I I didn't feel I feel like I belonged with him, like hanging out with him.
Speaker 2:But when I started hanging out with Sam and with the church and experiencing these things, I felt like, wow, I actually matter, like I'm actually valued, I feel that value and I started to resonate with God like that and I, I started to pray and I started to sense that God was working in my life and there was a lot of things changing about the way I think, the way you know, the way I talk, and it's just being around this environment was it was more happier than how I was living that before.
Speaker 1:Oh, praise the Lord. So what was your purpose in life at this point?
Speaker 2:Man.
Speaker 1:I don't get a job, get a girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I I I don't really recall because I didn't really save my money that well, so I wasn't really like I didn't really have any goals. I just was kind of living, just enjoying life and uh, listening to worship music, reading my Bible, learning more about God, learning more about different things like about God and who he was and things like that. I don't like back in that time I can't really say that I was really exploring my identity, who I was, because I was just kind of going to church listening to the music, listening to the sermon, learning things about God, but not really exploring that.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, like God is like my identity is rooted in God and in his word when I, when I, when I think about it now like my life was not really, I wasn't really too focused on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what life was not really, I wasn't really too focused on that. Yeah, you know what? I think wrapping your whole identity around gospel isn't something that I had ever done. I don't think it's the way you think it's like God is a part of your life. You're like, yeah, god's a part of my life. And then, as you really read this thing, it's like, oh no, this is, that's not supposed to be a part of my life. Like he is my life. Everything revolves around what he says. What is what? If he says it, then it is, and so if I'm not living by that, I'm not living. I'm actually not living like this is the real deal. But before you adopt that mindset, it's you're like, yeah, he's part of it, he's a good part of it.
Speaker 2:But I do remember too, though. During that time, though I was going to church, I remember I started working for a pizza shop, a pizza place. I was delivering pizzas and helping make pizzas, and I always had this struggle with lust and pornography, and not just lusting over women on a screen, but women in real life. So I remember there was this girl I was working with and I found her attractive and this was man.
Speaker 2:It makes me feel old saying it like this, but I didn't really have like a typical smartphone like iPhone. I had like a little flip phone that I would use to call people, smartphone like iphone. I had like a little flip phone that I would use to call people, and I remember I took a photo of her when I was making pizzas and she was wearing like short shorts or whatever. So I took a photo of her and I remember the next day I came to work and the boss pulled me in and said so some accusations are coming against you, saying that you took a picture and all this stuff, and I I completely denied it.
Speaker 1:And there was wrong guy. Where's the? Where's the footage?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there was nothing on my phone that proved it, cause I something told me delete it, delete the photos, and I did and I came back there was nothing to prove it. So he basically let me go Like can't prove it. So he basically let me go like can't prove it. He said he didn't do it and she believed me too and she like, okay, maybe I would, just was mistaken. I thought that you did it and I like to see that as maybe that was God's grace.
Speaker 1:Uh, or it could be, you got away with it.
Speaker 2:But I remember feeling after that like this is something that could have got me in huge trouble.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I remember feeling during that time that this is something that I need to stop doing, and I remember praying to God about it, saying Lord, you know I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1:Were you in like in the practice of doing these things.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like this was actually like a one-time thing, but I remember that I would like on facebook, I would like see women that were attractive, that I went to high school with and stuff, and I would like see their photos and I would lust over those photos yeah yeah, yeah, but it wasn't something to practice, that I was actually taking photos of women all the time. This is a one-time thing and I it stopped me right in my tracks when that happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, praise God, man Cause that, that'll get you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I was like 21 or 20, something like that at that time, and I was actively looking at porn all the time on my laptop at home, and though I was going to church, I, a part of me, wanted to stop doing it, but I didn't know how to stop doing it. And this, this struggle, carried on throughout my, my walk with god for many, many, many, many years man.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. I was thinking about this to the other day. Um, sometimes we're like man. I don't know why this has a hold on me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But the reason it has a hold on you is because of the dopamine.
Speaker 1:Like scientifically, like there's so much dopamine in pornography, it is nuts, it's coming at you and it's it takes all, like it's a huge rush and it changes the way your brain works. It changes the way all of that stuff because normally, like, it's a huge rush and it changes the way your brain works. It changes the way all that stuff because normally, like, like they say, it works on your brain the same way that, like cocaine does, like it is, it is extreme amount of dopamine. And so then we're like man, why do I keep wanting it? Um, well, because of that dopamine rush.
Speaker 1:And the other day I was sitting at home and I was like I'm bored and I was like, let me, what movie should I watch? Or what book should I read and or what this? And because I have ADHD. Sometimes you just you go on like this dopamine search, you're just searching for it, and in the past that dopamine search like sincere heart don't want to walk and looking at stupid stuff. But in the going through that whole phase and maybe you've not experienced this if you don't have dopamine, if you don't need it like that, then one thing leads to another thing, leads to another thing leads to another thing, and then you're looking at something you shouldn't be looking at, because I know about myself. I was like halfway through, like flipping through which movie should I watch? Or cruising netflix, and I was like, oh, I'm just searching for dopamine right now, like.
Speaker 1:And in knowing that, I was like, oh, I don't need it, and I just stopped and I went over and I and I read a book, uh, a book called truly free. I'm reading this. Uh, anytime there's somebody who's preaching the gospel in a book, I'm like, oh, let me see their point of view. Um, but when we're like I don't know why I was looking at porn, I do. Uh, there's so much like it just floods our brain. And then we get like our brain starts looking for it and it reminds us, oh, you can get it here. And then we go for it there. And many people do that. That don't feel guilty, like you and I would feel guilty, because there's nothing spiritual, there's nothing. They don't have religious baggage. They're just like, yeah, like I want to do it and that's fine. But because you, like I said, said you're this sincere guy, it was affecting you yeah, and, and as you're talking, I'm thinking a lot about.
Speaker 2:I think this is kind of when the maybe this was kind of the start of the legalism in my life, in a sense, because I remember wanting to stop, sure, but not knowing how to stop. I just knew that I would make all these promises to God, saying, lord, I'm sorry, forgive me, I'll never do this again, I'll never do it again. But then I'd do it again, and then I would say, lord, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again. Then I would do it again, and again, and again, and I remember getting to a point where I started to doubt whether or not I'd ever received God's spirit into my life, because I kept hovering over this verse in the New Testament that says if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation.
Speaker 2:Old things have passed away, all things have become new, but I didn't see the new things becoming new in my life. In a sense. There were some things that I did see, like, okay, I quit drinking, you know, I quit smoking pot, like some of these things. But this thing, this pornography thing, was not going anywhere and I was continuing to look at it, though I knew this isn't God's plan for my life. This isn't God's will for my life to be. You know being involved in this type of thing, and so it started to become a thing where it became a problem for so many years that I literally started to doubt whether or not I'd actually receive God's spirit in my life, because if I had, then why am I still doing this thing?
Speaker 1:Man. Isn't that the trap that we get into? Because your heart was already there, you didn't want to look at it like, or Romans 6, 17 says that we can be obedient from the heart. And so your heart was there. You just didn't know how.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting, there's only one way to stop smoking, and that is you do not put a cigarette in your mouth. Like that is the way to stop. If you never put a cigarette in your mouth, you will stop smoking. So what is between you not wanting to smoke and putting the cigarette in your mouth? Well, like a lot of time, it's belief. It's a lot of time, it's you don't know how Like it's literally changing the way you think about cigarettes. And it's the same thing with when it comes to pornography. There's only one way to stop looking at pornography. And it's like you don't go to that website, or you don't go to that store that you used to buy it at, or you don't buy that video, like you don't go to the place where it has it and view it. That's the only way it and view it. That's the only way.
Speaker 1:But what do we do when we feel like if we've trained our mind, we've trained our brain to operate a certain way and to get dopamine from this certain place. Well, what are we going to do? When it feels like that, or when we used to look at it, it still comes up. What do we do? And that's where the how comes in, and I think that's what the gospel showed me. The gospel actually gave me the how. Where before I didn't know the how, I already had the sincere heart. But just like you, man, and just like so many of us, we were stuck in that cycle because we didn't know the how. And not even that we didn't know the how and I feel like we're about to get this in your story is the legalism that was even getting us to not like.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about the how, it was like our hearts are bad and like, being right with God was something that we were not because of legalism. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would remember just this, this ongoing struggle, this ongoing continuation, and I wasn't really telling nobody about it, like my best friend, sam, he knew about it. We talked about it a little bit, not so much, but just a very little bit, but I didn't really I wasn't talking to nobody about it Because in my mind, I felt like I am literally the only person going through this.
Speaker 1:It was just you, nobody else in America.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So like all the other people that I see in church, like they say, no, there's no way these guys are doing this, and so I would isolate. I would isolate in that sense and I would. I had this laptop that my dad gave me. I can't remember if it was like a birthday gift or a Christmas gift, but I remember like I was using this to get to porn, and I remember I would use it to look at pornography and then I would be so upset within myself that I would literally be in the closet.
Speaker 2:I had this closet in my apartment. This was like, I think, 2012 or 13. I was. I had this closet in my apartment where I would go in there Cause I remember how it says and Jesus says you know, go into your closet and shut the door and pray would go in there Cause I remember how it says in Jesus says you know, go into your closet and shut the door and pray to God in secret. So I use that as like my prayer closet and had all these papers up on the wall of different scriptures and different reminders, and I would curl up in a ball and I would weep and I would beg God to take this out of my life, please. God saved me from this.
Speaker 2:And I remember a time I literally took the laptop. God saved me from this. And I remember a time I literally took the laptop. I just got done viewing pornography and I took the laptop and I just became so enraged that I grabbed my laptop and I began to smash it violently into the floor into pieces. And I lived on the bottom floor, so the floor on the bottom was there was completely cement underneath, so this laptop smashed into pieces in my bedroom because I just was so tired of it, so sick and tired of giving into this thing, making promises that I'm not keeping, and it didn't solve the problem, I mean you know like you went and bought a new laptop and you tried hard but it didn't take a laptop.
Speaker 2:After that, I just started viewing it through my Xbox system.
Speaker 1:You're like I can't break this one. This is how I game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember finally speaking to my pastor about it in the church, but that's actually further on. But yeah, I was stuck. I felt stuck. I kept making promises to God that I was not keeping. And then I started to feel like God was mad at me, that he's not going to accept me because I keep doing this thing. And if I would ask for forgiveness I would feel like I was forgiven in that moment. But then I'd go and do it again and then I would question whether or not my asking for forgiveness was sincere enough. It must not be sincere enough because I'm still doing it, obviously, like if I'm really sincere, that I'm going to stop doing this. Repentance to me at the time meant that I'm saying I'm sorry, and I have to mean it, because I remember a friend telling me like oh, repentance means you change. You change and go to a different direction, which is true, but in my mind I was viewing it as I need to stop doing this or I'm not really sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, and we didn't really know how to regulate our emotions through truth. We live by feelings and if we didn't feel, yeah, right with God, then we weren't right with God. And you know. It is true that we ought to be practicing righteousness, but if you're practicing righteousness, have you ever seen that video of the guy and he's like got this bucket and he's trying to empty his boat and his boat is like flooding and he's like emptying it and there's water coming in this way and he, like that, is trying to overcome sin with a legalistic mindset, like you're working against yourself. Yet your heart is sincere, but the legalism is there, keeping you stuck in that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it continued. It continued on for many years after that and I remember a friend of mine the same friend who brought me in the Pentecostal church said hey, do you want to come to my dad's church with me? It was Adventist church in Detroit and I was like sure he's like now it's a little different. It's a little different than what you're used to at the Pentecostal church. The music is not super upbeat and there's some differences in teachings and stuff there. But you should be fine. I'm like okay.
Speaker 1:What was the?
Speaker 2:church called Burns Seventh-day Adventist church.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Burns. Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I went there and I had already been baptized through the Pentecostal Church in 2012. And but they were asking hey, do you want, does anybody here want, to receive Bible studies and get baptized? And if anyone knows the Adventist Church, they have a strong teaching that and before you get baptized you have to go through a series of Bible studies. And so I remember going through this series of Bible studies with one of the elders and we studied for a man like almost a year. He would send me cause. He lived in Detroit.
Speaker 2:I lived out in Brownstown, michigan at this time closer it was closer to Romulus Michigan, but I lived out there Soown, michigan, at this time closer it was closer to Romulus Michigan, but I lived out there, so it was maybe about 40 minutes difference. So he would mail the studies to me and I would do the studies and then we'd have a phone call and we'd go over it. And I remember one of the studies we were talking about not eating pork and clean and unclean foods, and I remember one of the questions was if I eat pork, will God destroy?
Speaker 1:me that was a question that they had in the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:And according to the Old Testament I can't remember the scripture, but according to the Old Testament it says something like people who are, in the last days, eating swine's flesh whom God will destroy, or something like that I'm like like the answer was that he would destroy you. Yeah, for eating pork. Yeah, the answer was yes. Yes, if I eat pork, god will destroy me, and not in those exact words, but pretty much that's what the whole jest about the question was much.
Speaker 2:That's what the the whole jest about. The question was so I started having this fear of if I eat pork like I wasn't really eating pork at the time anyway, because I had basically stopped doing that when I first started going to the adventist church like I kind of like started to go away from that, but there was still just that fear that if I eat pork then God will destroy me someday, you know. And then I guess that's where, like, the legalism started and, uh, I remember I got baptized in 2015 at the church that I now I still attend now. And, uh, the pastor there was very, very nice, like he was very cool, like he was the first person that I started to open up to about my pornography struggle. And he started telling me, like hey, you know, here's, here's a way for you to stop doing this. You know, like we're going to put a code on your phone, we're going to lock it up and you're not going to look at porn, like you're not going to there it is.
Speaker 1:That's the solution If you, if you would only known known that from the beginning if you, if you would only known, known that from the beginning, no problems, right.
Speaker 2:So I I did that, and but the problem was I had a dvd player and I had a dvd player and at the time I had a playstation 4. I remember I got rid of my xbox, I got a ps4 and my pastor told me because I was looking at porn through my ps4, and he's like, okay, maybe we need to get rid of the PlayStation 4. And I'm like, okay, so I got rid of the PlayStation.
Speaker 2:But I had a DVD player and the gas station right around the corner from me was selling magazines with a pornographic DVD in it so now I switched to from looking at porn for free on PlayStation 4 to now purchasing it at the store and watching it on my DVD player at home. So it was like the solution to lock these things up started. It's not helping.
Speaker 1:No, it's not.
Speaker 2:And the problem is still happening. So I went to. I remember I can't remember how I got the information for it, but I got information for Celebrate Recovery and there was a church and I think maybe I was searching online for like ways to quit pornography or something and I came across Celebrate Recovery and I started attending the church and it was a church of Christ, not an Adventist church. It was a church of Christ. So a part of me was kind of like, do I really want to go there?
Speaker 2:Because now, at this point, I just left the Pentecostal church and I struggled with back and forth, like going on Sunday, going on Sabbath and trying to pick a day, knowing, thinking in my mind I got to choose one, I can't have both. So I was kind of hesitant to go because it wasn't an Adventist church. But I went anyway and it helped, but it still was not the answer that I was looking for. I still found myself going through this problem, even though I was learning things to celebrate recovery. It wasn't the answer. So I continued just to spiral down through depression, through anxiety, through worrisome thoughts, overthinking, doubting.
Speaker 1:Did you think that if Jesus would have come, you would have been lost?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Part of me did believe that because again it goes back to that mindset of if I'm really sincere, then I'm going to stop doing this thing. It's just I'm just going to stop it, you know. And because I wasn't stopping it, I was feeling like I wasn't spiritual enough, I wasn't sincere enough, I didn't really give my life to Jesus and I, you know, going a little bit back, just a little bit back before I went to the Adventist church, I remember I struggled, I told you before, I struggled with believing whether or not I had received the Holy Spirit. And I remember there was this guest speaker at a church and he was praying over people putting his hands on them and they would fall backwards. And there was one person in the crowd that didn't fall backwards and he tried it two or three times. She wouldn't fall backwards. So he's like okay, well, I guess sometimes God does it and sometimes he doesn't, you know. And I remember I called him on the phone because I was battling so much with whether or not I had received the Holy Spirit and I'm sorry if I'm like kind of flip flopping back and forth, but stuff is, I'm just remembering how things went but I remember I called him up and I said dude, I don't think I've received the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:And he's like well, have you spoken tongues? And I'm like no, I know the church I go to. They speak in tongues. But I haven't done that. And he's like okay, well, when I pray over you, I want you to just start speaking. And I'm like well, what do you mean? Like I don't know what you mean. Like he's like I just want you to start doing it, don't, don't think about it, just let it happen. So I just started making up. Yeah, I just started speaking random stuff, like random whatever I can think of, because I kind of felt like well, this is how the people at the pentecostal church speak. So I just started doing it. And then he's like now, don't tell nobody about this, because they'll try to pull it out of you. And I remember thinking like but if God put it in me, how can they pull it out of me? And so after that man like I went through.
Speaker 1:Was that the last time you tried speaking in tongues?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was reading you. You put something on Facebook the other day about speaking in tongues. I remember, uh, the last time I did it it was because I was crying out to God and I didn't know the words to say, and so I just used whatever was coming out of my mouth and I said God, you decipher what's going on in my heart from what I'm saying, but I don't know what to say. And so I mean Paul says it's good to speak in tongues, but it's better to know what's actually being said. So if you're going to speak in tongues with a group of people, it's important that people can translate the tongues.
Speaker 1:But I just take it as, like, god, hear my heart. I don't even know the words to say, but decipher my heart, understand, like, like, see me, um, and I I somebody else asked me if I like, they asked me how do I know if I have the holy spirit? And I was with a non-denominational group and I was just like oh well, the bible says and they were wanting me to say something about tongues because they really believe like, if you speak in tongues and you, you have the Holy Spirit. And I was like no, the Bible says it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's whack.
Speaker 1:I'm like cool if you speak in tongues, but don't let that throw you off. If you're not speaking in tongues, that you don't have the Holy Spirit, because the Bible says, if you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, he lives in you and you live in him. All right, don't fast forward me. I want you to hear this. We're going to take a quick break. I want to read you this thing that blew me away. This guy texted us. He said long story short.
Speaker 1:I was born and raised Adventist, but my mom raised me with a very legalistic bent and that didn't mix well. When I fell into sin I felt like I could never overcome it. It led me to being agnostic. But in my journey I discovered a different side of Adventist online from people like you Love reality. That has led me want to commit my gifts and services to breaking down barriers to the Adventist faith and building bridges and, overall, just emphasizing and sharing the gospel.
Speaker 1:Man, praise God. That's the sort of message that makes me want to jump for joy. And, man, what a privilege it is to preach this thing so that people can see how much they're loved and that they are free from and dead to sin. And we say it all the time we cannot do this without you. We literally cannot. We are operating based on just the love, the donations, the generosity of you guys, and so we're committed to keep on going and to keep on preaching this thing. We would love for you to partner with us. Wwwloverealityorg slash give. Let's keep going into 2025. Every dollar you donate goes into keeping this ministry going and spreading the good news. So, wwwloverealityorg slash give, let's keep going in 2025. Love y'all, appreciate y'all. Let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So after that I started to go through a lot of anxiety and depression and sleepless nights. I couldn't sleep and I don't know, I don't know if this was like maybe this guy was there's something off with him or something and maybe maybe some spirits entered my life at that time. I can't say yes or no, I don't know. I just know that I went through a lot of sleepless nights, a lot of anxiety, a lot of stress and and a lot of stuff, cause I was so confused because I had my friend telling me no, no, no, no, no. That's, that's not, that's not of God, that's not what the Bible says, all these things. So I was and I did exactly what he told me not to do Don't go tell nobody because they'll pull it out of you or whatever. But I had to. I had to talk to my friend about it. I'm like dude, this.
Speaker 2:I just talked to this guy and, like he did, and a lot of anxiety, doubting my walk with God, and it was all wrapped up in what I was doing, you know, looking at pornography and you know not giving it up Like I felt like I should be and not believing that I was a new creation, even though the Bible says that if any man is in Christ he is a new creation, I was not feeling like that new creation. I was not feeling like I was experiencing that new creation and I struggled with that for many years that I'm not in Christ. I do not have the Spirit. Because, clearly not, because look at my life. My life doesn't look like it at all.
Speaker 1:Right. How many years did you struggle with that? Would you say how many?
Speaker 2:years. Did you struggle with that? Would you say that actually went on for all the way up until the end of 2022, until I started joining Live Reality Bible Studies.
Speaker 1:Well, get to that part when you get to it. Is there something else before that? Or was it just like years of uh, insecurity in the lord?
Speaker 2:years of insecurity in the lord, just years of feeling like I'm not right and no matter what I was doing, I I was not finding the thing that would actually help me. Celebrate recovery was great. They had some amazing teachings, amazing people what was that?
Speaker 1:what was from Celebrate Recovery? That was actually helpful.
Speaker 2:Small groups, where we would go into the church and we would do this thing, where people would come up, hi. I would be like, hi, my name is Frank and I struggle with pornography and sex addiction and anger and frustrations no-transcript. That no longer did. I feel like I was alone. No longer did I feel like I had. I was the only person in the world struggling with this. Now I'm seeing like, wow, there's this dude. I remember this dude named Ed. I think his name was Ed. He's like a 75 year old man and he's there saying he struggles with pornography and lust and all these things and I'm like, well, I guess I'm not alone, Like I thought I was. So that was the helpful part of it, but there was still no solution for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but bearing each other's burdens and confessing one to another, that's huge, it is.
Speaker 2:That's a big deal, and it was a big deal for me because it was helpful for me in the sense that I could take a little bit of the weight off my shoulders of I'm alone. Nobody else is going through this but me. Praise the Lord. So then, I still continued to battle for many, many years. All the way through, I had my pastor. He was helpful. We would talk and he would help me understand how to deal with temptations. It was never.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, though, I was battling with the legalism. I was battling with whether or not I knew Did you know you were legalistic? No, at the time, I did not know that I was. I just felt like my belief and my understanding at that time was, if I'm in Christ and if his spirit lives in me, then I should not be doing this. So there must be something wrong with me as to why I'm doing this. But my pastor was helpful. This and but you know, my pastor was helpful.
Speaker 2:He would help me get you know work through like understanding temptations and understanding that temptation is not a sin and that I have a choice to make during those, during that moment, I can choose to entertain the thought which he, like. He gave this like analogy of. I think it was like three circles. The outer circle is where you are. I think it was like three circles the outer circle is where you are and then the temptation is entertaining that first inner circle, like you walk into that, you entertain it, and then the next circle is I'm actually doing it, and then after that is I'm in it and I'm not walking out of it, I'm actually actively participating. And then he's like it's a circle, it's like you keep doing it over and over and over.
Speaker 2:He says but if you can view the temptation on the outside and not entertain that, not walk into that circle, that is when you can start building new habits. And you know, not doing the thing you know and in a sense like that's good, like that's really good that he taught me that, but it's still. It was, there was still something missing, and I think those who are listening, before I even say it, know exactly what was missing. It was me understanding my identity and who I was in Christ, and I think I've mentioned this before in Love Reality, bible studies that I tried a lot of different solutions and none of that helped except for Love Reality.
Speaker 1:So how did you come across Love Reality man?
Speaker 2:I was scrolling through Instagram and I came across Justin Koo's little miniature videos that he'd make and then right at the end he would always put do you want to join our Bible studies? That good, good, and he would like it had like the number and like text, this text, this number to, or text this phrase to this number, or I think it was like texts that good, good to this number, or something. So I did that good, good to this number, or something, so I did. And then I remember it was a Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon here one o'clock and I got the notification that the Bible study for that good good was coming on and I jumped on there and I remember I saw Chris Wetmore. I still remember he was in his car driving, but he was talking and he was testifying of, you know, different things. I don't remember exactly what he was talking about, but I do remember he was talking and he was testifying of you know different things. I don't remember exactly what he was talking about, but I do remember he was talking about these things and I liked it. I was like this, this, this is pretty good, and then it wasn't until I came across, started coming across the free from sin part and that you are in Christ and all these things like.
Speaker 2:But my mindset was no, no, no, but if I'm free, I'm not going to be doing these things. But the message seemed to be conflicting to that was actually, no, just because you do these things doesn't mean you're not free. But in my mind I'm thinking no, no, like this, this, this kind of sounds a little bit more like the Sunday, the Sunday church beliefs, and I. I came, god took me out of that. You know, like that my mindset was God pulled me out of that. So I was like this but these guys are Adventists. Like this is not traditional Adventists. Like this is not what I'm used to hearing. You know the, you know believing that you are free from sin. Like in my mind I thought that meant like, oh, I can just do whatever I want and I'm still okay. Like I can just sin all I want. Like that was the first mindset that I got.
Speaker 1:That's the common issue is well, if I'm free from sin, why am I still doing it? Number one, and if I'm free from sin, why do I need Jesus? Like there's some crazy stuff. But Paul does say we're free, so what does that mean? So what kept you coming back, even if there was like some tension there?
Speaker 2:What kept me coming back was it was a safe place, and not that my church and the people I hang out with there were not safe people, wonderful people, and I still call them my church family today.
Speaker 2:Like I have nothing against that family today, like I have nothing against that. But it just seemed like there was something different, that I kept feeling this tug on my heart to come back and over time it started to shape the way I think, like I started to think differently, that I am who Jesus says I am, regardless of the things that I'm doing, not that doing those things are okay. It's not that I'm free to sin, but I'm free from sin. I'm free from sin's power. I'm free from the double-minded, sin-conscious prison. I'm free from the penalty, the power, all that stuff. Sin has no power over me. And I kept coming back just because the messages were so amazing and I started to see that this was changing other people's lives and I started to realize that there's something about this that I've never understood before. There's something here, and I think that this is what I'm missing in my life.
Speaker 1:So what did you determine? What was the thing? Your identity?
Speaker 2:my identity and who I was. I, my identity came from the things that I did, rather than who Jesus Christ is and what he did for me. So if I did this thing, if I, if I messed up in this area, then that that proved that I'm actually not in Christ. Because I did this thing, I looked at porn or whatever name the sin, I identified myself with that, but I was learning through a reality that, no, you identify with yourself, with who Christ says you are, and there was something about that message that began to click in my brain. And it didn't.
Speaker 2:It's not as though I heard this message and then poof, my life is different now, like I now live, perfectly different and everything is great and you know, everything that I once did is now gone and I now live and just, you know, jump through tulips and flowers and butterflies and everything.
Speaker 2:Life is perfect now. But it opened up the doorway for new stuff to start happening, for my mindset to start changing, for me to start thinking differently. Things have changed so much in my mind that I now like, even if I fall short of course I try not to fall short, I don't want to do these things, but if, if something happens, I do not no longer beat myself up over it, I do not no longer look at myself as though I'm dirty and terrible and then I'm outside of Christ now and that I need to beg God to forgive me or he's not going to forgive me. I don't think like that. My mind is clear and I've testified about this before. Like my mind is clear, I do not stress, I do not worry about my walk with God anymore, because I know that is secure in Christ and what his word says about me.
Speaker 1:It's almost like you're now actually growing in Christian maturity.
Speaker 2:Whereas I didn't before. I didn't because nobody taught me this. And again, I'm not saying nothing negative about the church that I go to and the people that have been in my life over the last 10 years, but I don't feel like no one taught me this. And that was the first thing that I started to think about Like wait a minute, why didn't anybody show me this? Why didn't anybody show me that my identity in Christ is rooted in Christ, not the behavior that I'm doing? Like why didn't I know this? And then I'm like I've literally said it. It would have saved me 10 years of sorrow and misery and you know like my life was in pieces because of my mental health.
Speaker 1:You know, like my life was in pieces because of my mental health. So now if you, if you fall and I think we've talked about this with this community I've been a part of it For five and a half years and it really wasn't a community until COVID. Before it was just like some people who had gotten together that heard jonathan preach this thing. Then covid happened and became a community um. The maturity has has grown um. I've been able to see where I was still living by my feelings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been able to see say what?
Speaker 2:That was a big thing for me to live in by my feelings.
Speaker 1:How did that work yourself in your life?
Speaker 2:Just, however I felt I believe that was true. So if I felt like I was worthless I must be or if I felt like I'm a dirty person and pervert who can't stop looking at naked women on a screen, then I'm just a dirty pervert who needs to just get his life together and figure it out already. And it's just feelings, living by feelings. If I feel this, then it must be true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even living by feelings. Living by feelings If I feel this, then it must be true. Yeah, and even living by feelings, like I feel, like looking at something stupid, or I feel angry or I feel resentful, and a lot of the time you don't get to you, don't? You don't get to pick how you feel. You get to pick how you think and what you think ends up leading to how you feel. But so much of the time we don't even know that we can pick how we think. We just take all every thought that comes in our mind and we believe it or we own it, rather than, like I was talking about looking for dopamine, like I don't have to think about that, I don't have to search for it, I can actually live with peace now. But if I don't know that I have that option, then I don't know that I have that option and I'm just led by feelings. And yeah, we must change the way we think and line that up in accordance with truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and briefly, I'll talk a little bit about this because this is still kind of ongoing in my life and I don't know. Yeah, I mean I've made a decision, but yeah, like, I got married in 2022. And before that, I had been with my who is my wife now. I had been with her since 2020. Uh, my who is my wife now? I had been with her since 2020. So this was before I started experiencing walking in freedom and experiencing love, reality studies, and so I was still trapped in this cycle of pornography and living like this and living in that cycle. And my wife, she didn't like that. She didn't like that. I, I, I did those things, but, um, that she didn't like that, I, I, I did those things, but, um, it was something that she was patient with me about and we, we worked through it and we got married in 2022. And I was really after about a year and a half of us being together we got married, or after a year and a half of being married, she decided she wanted to check out. She doesn't want to, she doesn't love me no more, she doesn't want to be with me no more, she wants to walk away, and she and she wouldn't give me a reason why. So I began to struggle a lot more with is this my fault? Like those old thoughts started coming back Like am I being punished? You know it's the pornography. It has to be the pornography. You know it has to be, because you know I'm still actively participating in this and you know, maybe maybe it did have something to do with it, maybe. But at the end of the day, blaming myself and feeling like I'm being punished by God for this and he's taken away my wife from me because of this, that's just like.
Speaker 2:And I remember I had agreed to come to the Missouri trip and Eagle Rock, missouri, for the gospel camp meeting and I remember it was Michaela and Ame and a few other people that decided we're going to pray every single week until the trip. We're going to pray for the trip. So I got on there and I remember I was talking to them because I was thinking well, I've talked to a lot of men about the stuff I'm dealing with in my marriage. I've never really gotten a female's perspective. So I mentioned it and they prayed for me. But then Michaela had mentioned something that really just flooded my heart with so much peace. She said Frank, I hear the Holy Spirit saying that this is not your fault, you're not being punished. And when she said that, it's like I felt relief and a weight off my shoulders that I do not have to carry this as though it's my fault.
Speaker 2:And I came to Missouri with a lot of anger and bitterness towards my wife because of you're not giving me answers as to why you're doing this. You're just telling me I don't know. And I remember Chris Wetmore got up on the stage. It wasn't really planned for him to get up there, but he just got up there and said I sense that there's somebody here today who is carrying a lot of anger and bitterness towards somebody. And it said in their heart that if this person doesn't change and do this or that, that they're done and they're going to give up and walk away. And when he said that, I began to cry and weep because he was speaking directly to me, though he revealed that he was talking about something else, but he was also talking to me. And that's when Joel and Nate Hoffman came to me and they put their hands on my shoulder and I felt them behind me and then me.
Speaker 2:Joel and Chris talked afterwards and he taught me something that I will always remember we, as believers, do not make decisions in anger, bitterness, frustrations.
Speaker 2:We do not make decisions in that.
Speaker 2:We make decisions in peace and clarity and led by the spirit.
Speaker 2:And when he said that to me, all of my bitterness and anger that I carried toward my wife left me and I no longer was angry with her. I wanted to do everything I can to make things work between us and to this day, as we speak right now, it has not changed and I've, through much prayer and through throwing off a lot of anger and bitterness, I've made the decision to walk away. But I do not carry the weight of this is my fault. I do not carry the weight of I'm being punished and this is why this didn't work out. I'm at peace, clarity with God that, even though this is not working, god has a plan for my life and he's got a purpose for my life. And this all started happening through love, reality, through what I was learning about my identity in Christ Because I chose to join that study on a Sunday afternoon started the walking in Christ in my identity and who I am. If I did not know this, I do not think I would be able to handle what I'm going through right now.
Speaker 1:Man. Praise the Lord. Frank, sometimes I think you bury the lead with your marriage thing, bro. You know what I mean by bury the lead.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Like your wife doesn't live near you, and when you don't tell that part of the story, it doesn't make complete sense. So if you're just like, yeah, so I went to Missouri and I left my wife at the apartment, um, that's not going to make sense to the listener. So you have to add that part in, or it doesn't make sense at all, and okay yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, my wife she. She lives in the Philippines. We met online. We dated for five years well, three years. Then got married. Now we've been together for nearly five years and yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's different than your wife being at home and it's a different situation. It's still hurtful. I'm not saying it's not hurtful, but it's different. It's a different situation.
Speaker 2:It's different than it's a different situation. When you say it like that, it makes sense, cause I've had people who, when I told the story and then opened up about how oh no, no, she's in the Philippines, and I was like what I thought she was like at home and you guys live together and you're just having a bad marriage, and I'm like, no, she, we've never lived together. We met twice and for two weeks each, and yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So it's not just different, it's very different so it's very, very different than we've actually been together in person for all these years, and yeah, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But, man, frank, we have seen you just growing and walking in the spirit and hearing your testimony and seeing how you minister to other people is a blessing to all of us and just kind of walking with you and we've had a few conversations about your marriage and all that and seeing your encouragement. Man, god loves you. God has been using you and will use you. He has specific work for you to do. That I can't do, someone else can't do. He created it for you and just seeing you and get established in that identity is do, uh, he created it for you. And just seeing you and like, get established in that identity is a beautiful thing, man. So thank you for sharing that. And, um, man, we're just privileged to be able to minister to you.
Speaker 2:And I'm, and I'm, I'm just we're going to share just a tad bit more of how my life is going now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man Tell us since, since Missouri, my life is going now yeah, I mean tell us since, since Missouri, I met Joel Moutre. Shout out to Joel, he's an awesome dude. I met him. I wasn't supposed to really meet him the way I did, because it was supposed to be Nate Hoffman that picked me up at the airport, but it turned out it was Joel that was going to pick me up instead, and I never met Joel. He never met me. I didn't even know he existed. I didn't know who this guy was. So we're like two perfect strangers.
Speaker 2:In a car driving like two hours from the branson uh, springfield airport all the way to eagle rock, missouri, and during that two hours we got to know each other, we I talked him about some things in my life, he shared some things about his life and we became super good friends. And ever since then he has agreed to coach me and he's a. He just got his license to coach recently, but before that he had not got his license. So he agreed to coach me for free, to be a life coach for me every week and ever since he's been doing that, he has been teaching me how to walk in my identity.
Speaker 2:See, the problem was I knew about this thing of freedom, but I struggled to live it out. I knew that I was free from sin. I know that I am in Christ. I know that God loves me. I know that I am secure. My salvation is secure. There ain't nothing that's going to change that. I know that.
Speaker 2:But how to live out this? And that's what Joel has been teaching me. He's he's teaching me a lot about myself that I would have never known had I didn't talk to him. And he's been helping me to know that, like I've struggled to lose weight, I've struggled to diet, I've struggled with consistency to do all these things, but we've learned recently that consistency is not my problem. I mean, uh, no, commitment's not my problem, it's actually my mindset. And he's teaching me how to re, how to live with a renewed mind. And it has been such a blessing for me to live in this thing called freedom. And it all started through that good, good Bible study on a Sunday afternoon that I got from a random Instagram post as I was scrolling through Instagram.
Speaker 1:Let's go, man. Let's go, praise the Lord for Joel, love that brother and praise the Lord for growth in him. And it's not going to stop, man, we're going to keep growing and it's gonna be a blessing. What would you, uh, if you ran into frank? Let's say you know the guy, you just finished smashing his computer and he's on a walk and you run into him and you get to put your arm around frank, before or after he smashes his, has his computer. How would you encourage this guy?
Speaker 2:Just don't focus on yourself, on what you're doing. Don't focus on you. Believe what God's word says about you, and that's why a lot of things I've told other people too. I've had to walk people through this idea that one person told me I'm an alcoholic. I'm like, but what does God say you are? Oh, no, no. I understand that God says I'm this and that, but I'm still doing this. Therefore, I am this. No, no, no, no. Romans 6 says you are free from sin. Ephesians chapter 1 says that you are his beloved daughter. You're his beloved son. This is who you are. This is what god says you are, regardless of what you've been doing. This is who you are, because this is who jesus is and understanding from that perspective, that's what I would tell my younger self do not identify yourself with what you're doing. Identify yourself with what god's word says, in spite of what you're doing. Identify yourself with what God's word says, in spite of what you're doing.
Speaker 1:And then the doing ends up following the belief. That's right, amen. Well, thanks for coming on, frank. I appreciate you and your love for truth, my brother.
Speaker 2:Amen, thanks for having me Appreciate you Absolutely, you.