Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#219 Bible Verse Draft! Requirements For Salvation
Richard Young and friends gather in sunny Southern California for another Bible Verse Draft, tackling "Requirements for Salvation" by selecting verses that make the strongest case for what salvation requires.
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Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode. We're on location in sunny Southern California. I was talking with my boy, justin Kuhn, and he's like Rich, we haven't had a Bible verse draft in a minute. We need to do it. I was like, well, what can we do? He's like come out to California, let's gather our friends and let's record another Bible verse draft Exactly right.
Speaker 2:The whole point of the On the Road X tour was this one episode.
Speaker 1:Yes, for this moment. It's all been building up to this right now, and so here we are.
Speaker 2:What people don't know is that actually you were about to lose your job because you're going to miss an episode. Upload of Death to Life right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is actually just thrown together at the last minute because, no, no, we talked about this we planned it.
Speaker 2:We wanted to do this. We're here.
Speaker 1:And so today we have with us we've got Arnold Sego, what's up, say what's up, arnold, what's up? We've got Big B, let's go. We've got the Dusty boy, himself the Dusty is Justin. Coo, We've got Little B. Say what's up Little B Into the mic.
Speaker 4:What is up?
Speaker 1:And we got Frank the Tank in the house. Say what's up, Frank?
Speaker 3:What's up?
Speaker 1:All right, and if you haven't heard of Bible Verse Draft because we haven't had one, it's probably been over a year since we've had a Bible. Verse Draft, that's a the Bible verse draft is where we draft Bible verses in order to have the strongest case to win the draft, and today's category that we are going to be drafting from is what is it, justin?
Speaker 2:It's requirements for salvation. That's right. Requirements for salvation. I don't know if the people knew this.
Speaker 1:There are requirements for salvation, yes there are requirements, and so we are drafting from scripture to buttress our case for requirements for salvation. There's already been quite a bit of controversy this morning over draft order. There's been an accusation.
Speaker 2:Anytime that someone is cheating, there's, of course, going to be some drama.
Speaker 1:I resemble that comment, Richard. I resemble that comment Presents oh, okay.
Speaker 5:When the one that's in charge of figuring out the draft order comes out first, questions arise.
Speaker 1:Listen, I don't make the rules, I don't break the rules. Okay, so I was first, but because of Christian charity, we did it differently, and so we have a different order. And then there was just quite a bit of controversy surrounding what the topic was going to be. But we have arrived to this and we're going to send it. And, what's also exciting, before we just jump into this, this is the first time a married couple has been on the Bible verse draft.
Speaker 3:I don't know if it's going to bring strife.
Speaker 1:What do you think, Big B? You think you can handle this. Your marriage is strong enough to handle this. Bible verse draft.
Speaker 6:I think we could take the heat. What do you say?
Speaker 4:I think we got it.
Speaker 6:We'll see.
Speaker 1:We'll ask us at the end of the podcast. I'm not sure it's going to work out for you guys. If I'm being honest, I'm not sure it's going to happen. That's going to be a long drive home.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I am actually glad that Bianca is on the Bioverse draft, because she's the first woman on the Bioverse draft.
Speaker 2:I don't know, what that means.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 2:We've been doing it wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably means that we've messed up, but okay, so the order of the draft today is number one is going to be oh so random Justin Koo, so random.
Speaker 2:I was the one leading the charge. Why is Richard first? This doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:We should do this version of the Bobbler's Draft, and I should be first and Justin is number one, and then we have our friend from the Philippines, arnold Sego, number two, drafting in the second spot. Some people think that that's actually the best spot to draft in. I'm right in the middle of the draft on number three, and then we got Big B, little B, and then we have Frank bringing out the end with the bang, and so that's what it's going to do Actually.
Speaker 3:I thought Bianca was the last one today. Oh, are you the last one?
Speaker 1:Did I get the order wrong? Okay, so Frank's second to last. So then, bianca, you're going to have to use all your powers at the end to wrap this whole thing up with a bow. All right, we're excited for that. So, yeah, the Bible verse draft, this version, is requirements for salvation. And, justin, I don't want you to mess up this first pick. Man, you got the first pick. What is your pick?
Speaker 2:I'm not even stressing about it. I got a real, real good one, and this is actually because we've been studying the book of 1 John at that Good Good for the last couple of months, and we finally made it to chapter 3, which might be one of the most fun chapters of 1 John, and I want to jump right to it. Verse 9 says this to it. Verse nine says this no one born of God makes a practice of sinning because God's seed abides in him and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. Now let me argue for why I think that this actually fits the category requirements for salvation. Because I don't know about you, richard, or anyone else here. Have you ever felt like this verse might be used against you in a court of law to say you actually don't gain access to the kingdom of God because it says you can't keep sinning, and yet you do keep on sinning and so therefore, you are disqualified, you do not meet the requirements for salvation, you are out of here. Anyone ever feel that way before?
Speaker 1:I have when I read this verse previously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Just like this morning yeah.
Speaker 1:I looked at it today I'm like I probably can't do the draft this morning. I don't fit the bill.
Speaker 4:Not worthy.
Speaker 2:The way that I used to read this was exactly what I just said, which is this is a descriptive of hey, if you are saved, then you cannot continue sinning, and obviously if I keep on sinning, well, then it must mean that I'm not actually born of God. But the way I want to actually reframe this is by taking it into context with the entire chapter. And it's just a general rule of thumb. Reading one Bible verse in isolation and then building up an entire theology about how God does or does not love you probably is a bad fit, mercy. But chapter 3, verse 1 actually says this Behold what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God, and so are we. Verse 2 continues Beloved, we are God's children now. So the context of the chapter actually is to encourage believers saying Listen, god loves you so much that you're called his child more than being called his child as though God's just playing. Pretend You're called his child more than being called his child as though God's just playing. Pretend you actually are his child. And just in case you missed it, verse two says that's true now. Right now, you're not just pretending to be God's child, god's not just playing. Make believe. You actually are right now, his child. And so I think that it's actually wrong to read the later verses to say man, if I don't do X, y, z, if I find myself falling into sin every once in a while, then this must mean that I'm disqualified. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:The chapter starts by saying you are his child. You need to know this, and in light of knowing this, here's the promise, not the requirement, for salvation. It says no one is born of God. Well, that's actually you. That's me right, that's what was established earlier. So, justin, right, since he has been born of God, does not make a practice of sinning. Now, just take that, slow it down just a little bit. The idea of practice, well, that just makes sense. It's true, I'm not intentionally every single day, crafting time out of my day to get better at sinning, like it's.
Speaker 2:It's a different story to practice the piano versus walk past the piano and accidentally bump into the keys. Right, one is about intention. One is just something that happened, incidentally, and so I think what scripture is saying is that no one who's been born of God which you, the listener, me, justin have been born of God. I'm not out here practicing sin. Why? Because God's seed abides in me. God is a good father, he continued guides and leads me. He teaches me all things, and if I happen to bump into the piano every once in a while, god's like hey, hey, hey, don't do that. And here's how I'll help you not do it. Why? Because I don't practice sin, because I've been born of God, but actually as chapter two, 1 John, chapter two and verse, I think it's at the very, very end, verse 29. If you know that he's righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him. So I don't practice sin, I practice righteousness. The requirement is this his seed abides in me and therefore I practice righteousness.
Speaker 5:You know that's such an important point because many of us, especially me, had this in mind when thinking about what does it take to be saved? I need to stop. It wasn't just practicing sin, it wasn't just I need to stop. You know, purposing to sin, choosing to sin, but I needed to stop making mistakes and accidentally stepping in some sin. That was some pressure, right To say that you must not make mistakes because as soon as you make mistake, oh, you've been orphaned again, you're no longer a child of God, you're out, and so that put the weight of the whole thing on me. But just that reframing saying that no, no, no. The premise is that you are a child of God. The conclusion is that you do not continue to walk in sin. You cannot continue to be dead in trespasses and sins while you have eternal life in you, in the person of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's like this kind of like in and out, in and out, in and out, where you're like actually never knowing whether you are going to heaven or not.
Speaker 1:Yep, I was talking with somebody the other day and this whole idea of being like going back and forth in and out of Christ, it reminded me of probably the funniest episode of the Office ever, which is like the what is it? The dinner, the dinner, and they all go over there and Michael Scott is talking to his wife about how he had a vasectomy and then she wanted to have a kid, but then she'd want it, and then he goes snip snap, snip, snap and so many people, because it's like he had the surgery and then the unsurgery, and then the surgery again, and uh, that's what I'm thinking. Like that, people that think this way, that this is how they live, that oh, they were in and now they're out, and now they're in, then they're out. And you know, like blessed assurance, jesus is mine, what a foresakes of glory divine. Like that is how we're supposed to live, with that assurance. And we can't even walk this thing out unless we understand what you're pointing to here.
Speaker 3:How could you possibly do it if you're constantly worried whether or not you're in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what I'm hearing is a solid first draft pick.
Speaker 1:I was about to comment. If you take the whole chapter, yeah, it kind of works out for you. So we're going to go to the judges later on that we're going to see, but I don't know, bianca, what do you think? Was that a strong pick? What do you think? We're going to let her judge this.
Speaker 4:I think that was a strong pick, strong, strong pick Strong start.
Speaker 2:Good job, Justin. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4:Thank you Points to Justin, zero to Richard.
Speaker 1:Okay, let the record stand that Richard has zero points and I have some. All right, and I forgot to mention this at the beginning of the episode. If you're hearing a beeping or a bleeding sound like it sounds like a goat. That is literally to keep us safe from the rattlesnakes where we're recording this episode In Santa Clarita.
Speaker 2:It is getting warm and there are rattlesnakes. We've been here for about a month, living in Santa Clarita, and we have seen three rattlesnakes and so allegedly I don't know if this is snake oil or if it's actually legitimate, but we have some things on the perimeter of our property where it goes, and then apparently the snakes get scared of it and run away.
Speaker 1:So by the end of this episode.
Speaker 5:You probably won't hear it anymore, but it I'm sure it is irritating as a mug right now at the beginning of the episode, hey, but I gotta say I prefer the bleeding goats over the rattlesnakes.
Speaker 1:So if a rattlesnake comes in here right now, I am throwing this microphone at it. This episode is over. We are. It is a wrap. All right, Arnold, you were number two in the draft. What do you got for?
Speaker 5:us, what is your? What is your?
Speaker 1:first pick.
Speaker 5:Well, my first pick was stolen by somebody.
Speaker 2:Man, that's an argument for a good pick.
Speaker 5:Because, as everybody knows, if you've ever been to Milk Dudes, 1 John 3 comes up all the time. Justin's like I'm going to take the New Testament as my pick. So I'm going to go with my second choice. We'll go 2 Peter 1, verse 10 and 11. What's that?
Speaker 1:one say I have no idea what it says. 2.
Speaker 5:Peter. Oh, this is good stuff. In our faith community, we like to throw this at each other to remind us. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble. For so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior, jesus Christ. So if you want to get into that everlasting kingdom, you need to be diligent. So if you want to get into that everlasting kingdom, you need to be diligent. You need to make sure that your calling and election are sure. And so what is it that we are called to be diligent about, or diligent on? Well, it's in the preceding verses.
Speaker 2:I have like a whole section. Hold on Before you get to the actual context. I think part of the undertone of this episode is how you misunderstood it, oh yeah. So what did?
Speaker 5:you think it was at the time. So I thought that, yeah, if I want to make it into the everlasting kingdom, then there is a list, there is something that I need to make sure that I am meeting some requirements that I am meeting, and this list of requirements is a pretty big list, and so this was a lot of stress and most people that I know no, no, all the people that I know did not meet the requirements, and we were just trying to pump each other up, say, yeah, you can do it someday. Claim the promise that someday we will.
Speaker 2:What does it say when the way that we understand the Bible actually eliminates literally everyone we know?
Speaker 1:And then we're like we're never going to make it and we're like Jesus said well, the gate is narrow the way is straight. Let's pray for potluck. We'll never make it. Let us pray.
Speaker 3:Have a happy Sabbath. I have a needle.
Speaker 5:So this is a habit amongst our people. We like to make things difficult on ourselves and we thought we had Bible proof why it is so difficult. And here the list that Peter brings to bear is what some people call Peter's ladder right, starting in verse 5, but also, for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue. So faith is not good enough. You got to add virtue and to virtue. Knowledge To knowledge, self-control To self-control, perseverance To perseverance, godliness To godliness, brotherly kindness and to brotherly kindness, love. That's a long list.
Speaker 5:And then it says For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is short-sighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. There's the answer. Actually, it's right there in the passage. We we skip that part and we say look, there's all these things that we gotta do. We gotta do and we gotta work hard. Because if you lack these things, you're short-sighted, you're blind, but we miss. What is it that we are blind about?
Speaker 5:Notice at the end there of verse 9, what did you forget? That you were already cleansed from your old sins. He doesn't say you forgot to work harder to get these things done. He says you forgot that it was already cleansed. Your sins have already been cleansed and you have these things. And in fact, if you roll back to verse 2 to 4, he says there we have been given great and precious promises. We have been given everything pertaining to life and godliness. So before he goes to the list, he says you have everything already. After he says you have been given everything, then he says this is what you've been given. He says you have been given everything. Then he says this is what you've been given. And if you think you lack these things, it's because you forgot that you have already been given all these things. So make sure your calling and election is there because you remember these things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and in verse 8 too, sticks out. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our lord and savior, savior jesus christ. So it's just like they're yours, they're increasing, you already have them, and if they're yours, then you're not going to be unfruitful yes, yes oh.
Speaker 1:So how did you skip over the main part there, that you had been cleansed from your sins before? What's that all about?
Speaker 5:Well, we never talked about that part of the verse.
Speaker 1:You never talked about the good part of the verse.
Speaker 5:No, okay, I'm going to tell you a secret.
Speaker 1:You're just on the lookout for what you need to do as you scour through scripture.
Speaker 5:Well, there was this attitude, this feeling that if we told each other how good the promises are, we're going to stop striving, we're going to stop trying to be good if we found out that the goodness has been given to us as a gift.
Speaker 1:But that's the whole point, though to be able to stop striving and to rest. Isn't that the whole point? Oh, rest.
Speaker 5:You make it sound like we have rest within our doctrines.
Speaker 1:But maybe Some of y'all caught that. All right, man, Big B, what do you think? I'm not sure about that pick. I'm a little I don't know. What do you think Jury's out?
Speaker 6:I know man that's not sure about that pick. I'm a little I don't know. What do you think jury's out I, I know man that's I think actually was kind of strong.
Speaker 1:That was strong yeah yeah, I'm seeing that.
Speaker 6:I mean even I'm quaking in my boots I'm nervous uh, I'll be honest.
Speaker 1:If you guys are going to keep picking whole chapters, it's going to be tough for the rest of us um hold on let's review the fine print.
Speaker 2:There was nothing that said that we had to stop at one verse. We just had to talk about the requirements for salvation.
Speaker 1:Okay, alright, you know, and I'm glad you said that, justin, because incidentally it is my pick.
Speaker 2:Oh no, it is my pick. I want to talk about Matthew through Revelation.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to let you guys the audience in on a little bit of a secret.
Speaker 1:This whole even concept is kind of a a trick. It's kind of a secret, and I'm going to show you why, because my pick and y'all knew where I was going. It's Ephesians, chapter 2. Ephesians, chapter 2. I see Arnold smiling. He knows exactly where I'm going to go. I'm going to verse 8 of Ephesians, chapter 2.
Speaker 3:It's highlighted in my Bible too.
Speaker 2:It should be. Don't say that the jury's going to give him more points. Frank, Get with the program Requirements for salvation.
Speaker 1:This is my pick for the draft Requirement for salvation draft. Verse eight says for by grace, you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing. It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. So here are the requirements for salvation. There are no requirements for salvation. It is a gift, and that's the weird thing about a gift gift. And that's the weird thing about a gift. If a gift needed requirements, then it would actually be a wage and not a gift.
Speaker 1:You don't work to receive a gift. That's not what I was taught. You receive a gift and from that gift, like all of these things that God had in mind for you and store for you the plans that he had, the good works, because you've received that gift, it is your privilege to walk in them and live them out, because he's Made you a certain way, like he made Frank and Bianca, all of us. He's made us a certain way and that there are things that we Are to do that nobody else can us. He's made us a certain way and that there are things that we are to do that nobody else can do, because he just made us for that. So we have to understand, like a gift is gratis, it's free, it's yours, and Paul's prayer is that you receive it, that you believe it. Should we continue in sin? That grace may abound.
Speaker 1:By no means by no means, you know. No, of course not, but the gift is there actually to free you from that. The gift is he freed you from sin, and so the whole premise, like what is the requirement? The requirement is that Jesus would do something and give us this gift. The requirement was on him.
Speaker 5:Well, I have a clarification question about your pick. You seem to be implying that these good works that we were created for in Christ Jesus is that part of the gift? Is that a gift from God to us also? Or is that what we give to God in gratitude in exchange for the gift that he gave us in the first place?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because if you get a good gift for Christmas and then you bought a sucky one, you're kind of scrambling Like, how do I upgrade? Maybe I'll attach a $20 gift certificate to my gift just to try and make it Get a little candle.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to tell you guys about the greatest gift I ever got, and it wasn't Jesus.
Speaker 6:No, it was the second greatest gift I ever got. I just knocked you some points, bro, the second greatest gift I ever got. Yeah, super Nintendo Back to zero.
Speaker 1:I got the Super Nintendo on Christmas Day. We were losing our minds. Okay, and then what did we do with that Super Nintendo? We actually played it. You played it On Christmas Day. We got the Super Nintendo. We put Mario in. This was the one with Yoshi.
Speaker 2:It didn't work. The first we had to blow on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah we blew on it. You know the drill. And then we played it. And so was it a requirement that we played it. We get to play the game. We were losing our minds, we were so excited. In the same way, you have been given grace. Your faith is what allows you to see that free grace, that free gift. That's why it's by grace that you've been saved, not faith, that you've been saved by grace, and your faith is what sees it. And also, faith is a gift too. That's another thing. So by grace, through faith, you've been saved. And then the works that you're talking about, arnold, that's living in grace. Grace is the power of God in your life. So the grace to live, to walk, that's the playing of the video game, that's the playing of the super Nintendo. I just thought of it right now. I'm not sure if it holds up as an analogy. I feel like it might.
Speaker 2:I like it. I'm fighting the urge to hate on your pick just out of pure sportsmanship, because I want to win, but this is a good verse, and I think it's one that I didn't quite reconcile, even as I was reading it in the past right by grace, you have been saved. I still was looking at me needing to do something in order to be saved. And yet salvation, seemingly, is something that's rooted in the past, rooted in the very blood of Jesus, offered as a free gift.
Speaker 6:You know it's like it's funny because you say that, but at the very blood of Jesus, offered as a free gift. You know it's like it's funny because you say that, but at the same time like going back to your analogy you can't play Mario until you have Nintendo.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You could have Mario but not have the Nintendo. Therefore, you're not playing Mario.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you're saying you can have good works without Christ, but those good works aren't anything because you don't actually have the game operating system.
Speaker 2:I think that's exactly what I was going to say.
Speaker 3:Exactly, that's some gospel fire right there there you go, frank Coming in hot.
Speaker 5:Hold on. I just want to point out there's been three picks and so far two-thirds of the picks have been our misunderstandings of how this worked. Right, it takes three picks to get to the one.
Speaker 2:that's actually a promise of how this works, and I think that's just because you and I were dense.
Speaker 5:Yes, it's possible that we were playing Mario too much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the requirements? Okay, I don't want to take another verse because I'm a Christian, so we'll go.
Speaker 3:Big B, I think you're up.
Speaker 1:It is your pick. I think I may be in the lead who's to say, really, but go ahead, big.
Speaker 2:B, If we're assigning points to creativity and originality. I don't know that that one comes up so high on the list.
Speaker 1:Oh, because it's just how we're saved by grace of your faith.
Speaker 2:It's like do you get points for picking the obvious routes. Are you calling?
Speaker 1:me basic.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 6:I'll leave maybe a little bit big b. You're up, man, what?
Speaker 2:is your pick in the uh expectation. What is it? The requirements? For salvation bible verse draft. All right, we're going to romans, chapter eight.
Speaker 6:Oh, he's gonna say six, obvious pick here romans, chapter eight, verse six, and it says so letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death, but letting the spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. I even go further on. It says for the sinful nature is always hostile to god. It never did obey god's laws and it never will. That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. So stop there. I'm reading that and I was like all right to be saved. I can't be under control of my sinful nature. I got to. I you know you got to. I got to fight this. I got to squash it. It's on me to squash my sinful. Anyone else feel that way? How do you do that?
Speaker 1:How do you squash the flesh?
Speaker 2:The answer is go vegan.
Speaker 6:Go vegan. 4 am work, you know wake up time and fasting a lot.
Speaker 1:Cold plunge, cold plunge.
Speaker 2:Cold plunge certainly helps with sanctification. We need to make a checklist.
Speaker 1:You guys laugh, but there are people that don't. Yeah, not wearing mixed linens because of the energy in the mixed linens.
Speaker 6:Yep, yep, yep. No caffeine, none of that stuff. How about shot colors?
Speaker 2:There's a deep cut.
Speaker 6:No, but I mean that's where I was coming from. I was like, all right, requirement for a salvation. It's like okay, I mean that's where I was coming from. I was like, all right, requirement for a salvation. It's like okay, yeah, it's a gift. But now I can't let myself be controlled by the flesh. You know, I know some translations say the flesh, some say sinful nature, but pretty much it's like okay, I have these urges, these habits. I have to squash them to be saved.
Speaker 1:That is a requirement. That is a requirement.
Speaker 6:That is a requirement.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for your pick there, big B, but there's good news.
Speaker 6:Oh, okay, but there's good news there's good news.
Speaker 1:Hold up Okay okay.
Speaker 2:I was going to say if there wasn't good news, you may not win this draft Roll credits.
Speaker 6:But keep on reading. But you are not controlled by your sinful nature, boom. But you are not controlled by your sinful nature, boom. Oh, I see what he did. You are controlled by the spirit. If you have the spirit of God, it's like Paul, kind of like, would take me on a trip. I'd read this and I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm good. Oh, I don't know if I have the spirit of God living in me, but then he just, he just drives us home, guys. He just says verse 10, christ lives within you. Contin, christ lives within you. Continues on the spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he is the one who gives life to your mortal bodies by this same spirit living within you. So there's. The good news is that it ain't on me to squash the flesh. The flesh has been put to death.
Speaker 1:Mercy, by the spirit, the flesh has been put to death. Yeah.
Speaker 5:I just want to update the score. It's three misunderstandings versus one actual understanding. Oh no, Three misunderstandings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this idea, if you just what was that? You said don't read a Bible verse. Where did you get that from? Someone was saying don't read a Bible verse.
Speaker 2:There's a Christian apologist by the name of Greg Kokel. Shout out to Greg's, I know you're listening, but his advice was never read a Bible verse. And maybe that's his social media hook. But the point is, if you're only reading one Bible verse, there's a strong chance you're going to misunderstand it. The context actually matters. Read the whole chapter, which is why, rich, incidentally, I think it's actually good practice for us to read the whole chapter.
Speaker 4:This is the Bible verse draft the bible chapter.
Speaker 6:I still think you chose like three verses there, man yeah, I didn't choose the okay anyway.
Speaker 1:So, brian, in your old, your old thinking you were, you were like okay, these are the requirements that I die to the flesh every day, or I die daily, or like how did that manifest in your life, man.
Speaker 6:Yeah, dude, not exactly that. It was like, all right, I have to put this to death. And when it's the reality was is like I could try, but I couldn't do it. Like again, I would try the things that be like all right, you just got to get down and not fail and be like god, help me, help me put to death. And it was like, and I was just in despair in a lot of ways of like, like and a variety of ways it's just like all right, I got. You know, I'm I'm struggling with lust, I'm struggling with people pleasing, I'm struggling with love and patience and all this, you know stuff that christians are supposed to have the fruit of the spirit right, and I'm like I don't have that and I'm like it's because I have the fruit of the spirit Right, and I'm like I don't have that and I'm like it's because I have, I'm letting the flesh control me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then you read like oh, actually, the flesh has been crucified with Christ, therefore I can put these things. And I think that's the big problem, man, and I'm I'm glad you brought this verse up. So many many people um are trying to die rather than realize they have died, and so that these things that they used to live in they can put off those things and so, uh, so you're. The requirement for salvation is actually, uh, you have already died with christ, and so you're already dead with christ.
Speaker 6:Do you have verse 12?
Speaker 1:you have no obligation to do what your flesh urges you to do no longer debtors to the flesh.
Speaker 3:So are you saying Jesus met the requirements? Ooh, ooh.
Speaker 6:Bold. I think Jesus died and I died with him, man. So there we go. I think that's pretty strong guys, and gal.
Speaker 1:I'm not pleased with the turn in this. I feel like hes playing to the audience.
Speaker 2:He knows that if you just say the word Romans, everyone's gonna start salivating there you go exactly.
Speaker 1:Someone says Romans, we're just like it's gonna be good salivating at the Bulldogs out there all right, well, um cheap tricks there, uh, yeah all right. All right, we see your style and we don't appreciate it. Very good pick in the draft. I think we're going to Frank the Tank. Frank the Tank. He's just been sitting here watching us all play ourselves.
Speaker 2:This is what prudent gamesmen do. They survey the field, they see the weak points and then they pounce.
Speaker 1:They survey the field, they see the weak points and then they pounce. This is probably why his Pokemon expertise will give him an edge here. I was going to make a reference, but it's the wrong game.
Speaker 2:but I'm going to do it anyways.
Speaker 3:You've activated my trap card, it's another trading card game, but it fits. Someone knows what that is.
Speaker 2:All right, Frank, if you know what that?
Speaker 1:is you're a nerd.
Speaker 3:Find Jesus and repent my verse. Verses coming from Matthew, chapter 6, verses 12 to 15. And forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven our debtors, and do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever. For if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Speaker 2:There's a lot there Still waiting.
Speaker 1:How is this a?
Speaker 3:requirement for solving. I'm nervous. So I used to think that I have to ask God to forgive me in order to stay saved, in order to stay in there and not be lost, and the whole part where if I do not forgive, then it means that I also cannot be forgiven. But when you look at the scripture, if you forgive us our debts, as we've also forgiven our debtors, we know that God has forgiven us. Therefore, we can extend forgiveness, and I didn't see it that way before. I used to think I got to forgive and then once I can finally muster up that ability to forgive, then God will forgive me. But if I can't, tough luck kid. So it's understanding that, because I've been forgiving and knowing that I will freely extend forgiveness through the spirit that is in me.
Speaker 1:Mercy. So the big go ahead, bianca.
Speaker 4:Well, I was going to say I had a twisted way of understanding it, where I did see that God did forgive me, but then I had this obligation to forgive others. God did forgive me, but then I had this obligation to forgive others and if I didn't, then I wasn't worthy of his forgiveness and he might take it back. And I don't think I ever said it in so many words, but that's how I felt.
Speaker 2:So you were afraid that the Nintendo was going to get returned to Best Buy.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:All you got is a Mario Kart left.
Speaker 4:Can't play the Mario.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that the biggest problem with forgiveness is not that it's hard to forgive. It's impossible to forgive if you haven't been forgiven, like if you haven't been forgiven. It's not hard, you cannot do it. But then, if you do understand, you're forgiven. Well, the only reason you wouldn't forgive is if you're an evil person, like if you've been forgiven, let's say, a lot of money, and then you withhold it from somebody. The only reason you would do that, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Evil.
Speaker 1:Evilness, and so when? So yeah, frank, this is interesting. When you saw it as a requirement, it put you kind of some under, under some law of like, oh, I've got to forgive, but you hadn't really grasped the depth of your forgiveness yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, cause I I thought how can I do this? How can I do this? Like if I'm just going to be lost, like if I can't do it. I feel like I'm trying to do it, but I can't do it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting no-transcript.
Speaker 5:That one. What do you think, arnold? How does that hit you? Uh, this idea that you try to do it, you want to do it but you can't do. It seems like the requirements for slavery, oh, wow, so some we.
Speaker 1:I would drop this, but this is a very nice mic, I think Arnold's one.
Speaker 2:Please do not.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay. So this idea of asking for? You know, sometimes people get a little frustrated when we talk about this idea of not asking for forgiveness and it's like this idea that we're getting away with something or that it will cause us to live recklessly. But understanding our forgiveness is actually kind of what puts integrity and grace on us to be able to love and forgive. I promise that no one. I've not seen anybody withhold forgiveness when they understand that forgiveness. I don't think I see that yeah.
Speaker 6:I'm with you, man, like once you know what you have, you can give it out freely, out freely like it's. I always tell the analogy right, it's like okay, if you had a billion dollars and someone if you had a trillion dollars, right like you know.
Speaker 6:You know that they say like the increment between a million and billion. It's like, it's like different to like a year and like a thousand years. Right, like a thousand years. Right like you. Just it's huge, right like if you had a trillion dollars and someone came and asked you for a dollar for a hundred dollars it's nothing.
Speaker 6:I got a thousand dollars, right, if you? You'd be like your son came like yo, I need a million dollars. You'd be like your son came like yo, I need a million dollars. You'd be like I got a million millions, I can give you one of those, right? Like that's what? Like when we receive forgiveness, we're like, oh, I got it, I can give, let's go.
Speaker 2:And I think that this may be one of the elements that we don't talk enough about. Forgiveness is that like we just get back to zero, Like I was in debt and now I'm at zero Like. I was in debt and now I'm at zero, so that maybe there's still a certain level of scarcity because I'm at zero, like I got a clean slate but I don't got a lot of extra.
Speaker 6:And if you mess up?
Speaker 2:But then what Arnold was highlighting with his section of scripture, with his entire chapter, was that we actually been given great promises Right. And if we were to go to one of the other common sections of scripture that we would talk a lot about, about how we've been given every spiritual blessing, every gift right, so that there's no need to even think that we're at bear zero.
Speaker 5:We actually are having cups that overflow. You know, switching the analogy a little bit. If you think of yourself as a bucket, right, your sins, your failures, that's a bucket and the forgiveness fills you up. But the forgiveness that we receive from God is infinite. Doesn't matter how big your bucket is, it's going to fill it up and it's going to spill all over the place. You cannot help but forgive those who have trespassed against you because you can't contain what you got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's real Well, frank, touche your card playing Pokemon ways. I don't know if you're in the lead because once again, it's a misunderstanding of scripture. It seems like there was only one clear requirement.
Speaker 5:The score is four to one.
Speaker 4:Don't worry, richard. Don't worry, I'm coming for you. Okay, bianca, you are four to one. Who picked that? Don't worry, richard. Oh, that was mine. Yeah, I picked that one. Don't worry, I'm coming for you. Oh, okay, bianca, you are the last one.
Speaker 3:It is your turn.
Speaker 1:This is your first ever pick, a first pick by a woman, which means it's probably a problem. We need to get better. But, bianca, you are up. Auntie Sharon is laughing in the background Probably first laugh from a woman when listening to the Bible draft. What is your pick? We are all. We're all nervous, okay.
Speaker 4:I'm going to go to 1 Corinthians.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 4:No one is going to pick.
Speaker 1:John 3.16. Like well, that's crazy. Maybe she's going to go there and she's just throwing us off.
Speaker 4:Sorry, I mean John 3. Okay 1 Corinthians 1, chapter 1, verse 30. And because of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.
Speaker 1:What does that mean?
Speaker 4:Boast in the Lord.
Speaker 1:Why is that? Your Tell us why that is your pick for the requirements of salvation Bible draft.
Speaker 4:There's no requirements, rich. That's what you said. She said this whole idea is stupid.
Speaker 1:Why are we 40 minutes into this? Let the record show this was Justin's idea. No, but so yeah, what speaks to you about that verse? Yeah, what comes alive.
Speaker 4:So yeah, what speaks to you about that verse? Yeah, what comes alive. There's no requirement and there's no role that we play, Jesus Christ. We are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. There's nothing we have to do to earn that, it's just given to us as a gift.
Speaker 1:So if he's going to boast the lord, let's go here. And rich said that's a strong pick.
Speaker 6:I didn't mean to say that, oh, is it wait? Okay, I'm reading the nlt and it it goes hard. It goes hard here. All right, right, wait, hold on.
Speaker 2:This is a disadvantage of having a married couple.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You can't be like building her up in the middle of a conversation. She's coming off the top rope. She got tagged in Wait, wait hold on.
Speaker 5:This sounds like collusion.
Speaker 6:I think that's what this is.
Speaker 3:This is collusion.
Speaker 2:That's what you all got by putting us together on here this marriage, unfortunately, is going to be stronger at the end of this all.
Speaker 6:I didn't mean for this to happen. Tagging in a little bit more here, it says for our benefit, for us, god made him to be wisdom himself. Talk about Jesus Christ made us right with God. He made us pure and holy.
Speaker 1:And he freed us from sin. So the requirements for salvation are actually found in what Jesus has done. Is that what you're saying.
Speaker 3:That's wild. Let us boast in the Lord Rich.
Speaker 1:Wait. I was thinking at the end of this whole thing that I would have won this draft and I would have gotten to boast in myself Nope, can't do it, rich. But what you guys are saying is that is erroneous thinking.
Speaker 3:That's whack tracks.
Speaker 1:And I should be boasting in the Lord, ooh.
Speaker 2:I don't know about you guys, I'm a little upset. That was really good. I think, bianca, this is beginner's luck.
Speaker 1:I think Lil B just won the draft First ever draft pick by Bianca, and she seems like she won this one.
Speaker 4:Represent. This is why we don't let ladies on the Bible version. I think we need to go back here, Auntie Sharon in the
Speaker 3:background. We're going to do an all girls version next time.
Speaker 1:I think we need to go back to what we were doing, with having Jonathan in here just talking in a low, monotone voice Jesus loves us and Tyler but yeah. So, justin, why don't you wrap up this whole idea? Kind of give us a bow on all these verses and what seems to be coming out?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it is interesting. What's the official score now, Uncle Arnold, as far as misunderstandings Four misunderstandings versus two.
Speaker 5:Actual understanding life-giving verses. What does?
Speaker 2:that say about us, um, but but I I think it's just really noteworthy that when it comes to salvation, a lot of people do have these misunderstandings. We do think that we play a role, we do think that it's somehow up to us, and this is just why preaching the gospel is so important. I posted earlier on social today follow me at JKoo. I said if you want to make people mad, preach the law. And I said if you want to get people really mad, preach grace.
Speaker 5:Mercy. I think maybe we should wrap up with a verse that actually says what it takes to have eternal life.
Speaker 2:You've been hiding an extra. This is how he's thinking in two chapters into the Bible.
Speaker 1:I don't trust him. I don't trust him on this, but go ahead Ultra collusion.
Speaker 5:Sharon texted me.
Speaker 2:Auntie Sharon. By the way, for the record Auntie Sharon was invited to join the Bible.
Speaker 1:She's just winning it from you know, From the background.
Speaker 2:She's like I don't even need to play these games when they zig I zag.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I'm Rob Palenka, she's Jeannie Buss. We're going to get this done. John 3, 15.
Speaker 3:I think we can just go there, john 3, 15.
Speaker 5:No, never mind 16. Everybody knows 16. But 15, I think is just very concise. 15, I think, is just very concise. Jesus says whoever believes in him may have eternal life. If you want a list of requirements, the list is very short Just believe, believe in him, you have eternal life, according to Jesus himself. So I think we can take that to the bank, but hold on Arnold. Doesn't the Bible say even the demons believe and tremble.
Speaker 1:Oh, how long do we want to go.
Speaker 6:You know what?
Speaker 1:I'm glad you said that frank, because some of my hear that believing in christ is actually the word pieces is giving him allegiance as lord. So we believe it's not just a mental ascent that jesus actually was god, but it is.
Speaker 1:he is god and I give him allegiance as lord. He is lord and you giving him allegiance as Lord, he is Lord and you giving him allegiance as Lord doesn't make him Lord. You're just actually receiving that. He is actually like Jesus, Like if we were. We were thinking about doing another Bible verse draft on Jesus's words. One of mine was going to be uh, let there be light, Cause that is actually Jesus's words. Oh, uh, because Jesus governs the whole thing and so when we give him a, we're in that sense believing in him. I thought you were going to 1 John 5, that he who has a son has life and he who does not have the son does not have life.
Speaker 5:Well, if we're there already. 5, verse 11, god has given us eternal life and that life is in his son. It's a package deal. All we are doing is aligning with Jesus, who is God, who is eternal life, and it's not just a matter of believing. I accept this set of doctrines, this assertion. No, it's much more than that. It is. I am trusting, I am aligning with life.
Speaker 4:It's accepting that we are in Christ Jesus which was my verse for the record oh, she brought it full circle you see that it's like she's been down this road before.
Speaker 1:Did she play, remember, at the beginning. She's like I don't know if I want to be in the draft. I don't know if I want to be in the draft. Hey makers, all right, thank you guys so much for listening to this Bible draft. It for listening to this Bible draft. It's been too long. Maybe we'll do another one again soon, but thank you so much. We love you guys. We appreciate y'all. Bye, bye.