#221 Kirsti Armenta: God Was Never Distant, I Just Couldn't See Him

Kirsti shares her powerful journey from viewing God as distant to discovering His intimate love and presence within her. Her transformation reveals how understanding our identity in Christ brings freedom from both our own sins and the sins committed against us.

• Growing up with divorced parents in an unconventional household filled with exotic animals
• Feeling different from peers as the only Adventist in town
• Experiencing distant father figures that shaped her perception of God
• Losing her father suddenly during her freshman year of college
• Tragically losing her sister to suicide while in college
• Struggling in personal relationships due to seeking approval and worth
• Finding healing through intentional forgiveness toward her stepfather
• Discovering that Christ actually lives within believers
• Learning that God's love isn't earned through performance
• Experiencing transformation in parenting, relationships, and spiritual life
• Reading Scripture with new eyes and understanding
• Moving from religious obligation to genuine desire for God

If you want to experience this freedom too, join our Bible studies at lovereality.org where you can learn about your identity in Christ and discover how His love transforms everything.

💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org

Download the Love Reality app. Available in the App Store & Google Play.

Chapters

• 0:00 Finding Father Through Tragedy
• 18:17 Academy Days and Religious Exploration
• 39:12 College Years and Relationship Struggles
• 1:07:29 Coping with Loss and Marriage
• 1:32:49 Motherhood and Moving Forward
• 1:41:24 Discovering Real Relationship with God

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:55

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.

Speaker 2: 1:25

And so then I was able to go out to like my mom and she was able to call the ambulance, like so that because my brother lived by himself with my dad and they like they're the only ones there in the country, you know. So I'm just like grateful that he called me and I was able to like respond. But so my dad had passed away. Um, they ended up doing an autopsy just because my sister in the hospital felt like she had caused the death. So they wanted to do an autopsy so that it could prove that it wasn't her, because, like her, the voices were telling her that she had caused him to die. Um, and he ended up, well, it said like it was heart related, um, so it was a sudden death and he died instantly, so he wasn't in pain or anything but very traumatic for my 11-year-old brother to find, and that was like the first loss that any of us had experienced, and so that was just like a pivotal moment and that was on the 31st of December.

Speaker 1: 2:38

Welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with my sister, kirstie. And Kirstie popped up on our Bible studies a few years ago and I was so pumped and so surprised. I hadn't seen her for years. I knew her when she was in high school and seeing her transformation has been amazing. I didn't know her full story until this episode and I'm just praising God for what he has done in her life. And there's definitely some ups and downs in this story. There's some trials. It is not for kids. It gets down to the nitty-gritty. For kids it gets down to the nitty gritty. But I think you're going to see the redemption that comes with Jesus Christ and believing in the forgiveness we've been given, not merely from our sins but the sins done against us. So Kirstie is a blessing, she's a testimony. Kirstie is a blessing, she's a testimony. So buckle up, strap in. This is Kirstie. Love y'all, appreciate y'all.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Yeah, so my parents, uh, they went to Southwestern, that's where they met and got married, and then, um, I'm the third of three daughters, um, we're all two years apart. And yeah, so they met at Southwestern, lived in Kansas and at about like four or five is when we moved to Iowa.

Speaker 1: 4:09

And so you had a nice childhood, grew up going to church.

Speaker 2: 4:26

Uh, okay, so so my, my parents got divorced when I was five. Um, we I don't remember most anything until we moved to Iowa, but I know that my mom tells me, um, cause they had a very dysfunctional relationship. My parents, um, so she tells me, whenever I was born, was when she decided to quit work and stay home with me and also go to recovery for like codependent coda, you know, like alan on and that type of stuff, which is where that kind of like trait changed her life around. So I'm sorry, what?

Speaker 1: 4:57

is what is alan on? I'm ignorant.

Speaker 2: 4:59

Alan on uh, so it is. So there's an addict. Alan on is the person that has an addict in their life, and so it's kind of like support for the other side and they're, you know, to work through, like not enabling them, and it's it's similar to the 12 steps of AA, but it's just the other perspective, not the addictive perspective.

Speaker 1: 5:26

And that was super helpful for her.

Speaker 2: 5:28

Yeah, yeah, um, cause my dad, uh, had a lot of addictions, but he wasn't. It wasn't like drugs or alcohol, I mean, he just had like a hard life. He was abused in more than one way when he was younger and so he can never like fully step into his life and grow up. So he had a lot of hobbies that he would go really hard into and then fall out, and he was addicted to like spending money and porn and I don't know. They just didn't have a good relationship, um, and so they got divorced. I think we moved to iowa and then they got divorced shortly after that, um, and my dad was always somebody that had like a million animals, so, so, like our houses were always like destroyed and half done, because he's my parents are like really um like farm animals, like a donkey?

Speaker 1: 6:32

no, no like.

Speaker 2: 6:35

So he's from texas and so he like when he was a child he would go out and catch snakes and stuff. So like growing up I had like I didn't have. He had a king cobra, he had a green mamba, I had a pet alligator, he always had like tarantulas, lots of snakes, but then he also had like a bunch of cats all the time. So everything was just stinky and always run over by animals. But yeah, so my story doesn't really start until, like I moved to Iowa and I don't really remember my parents together. I just remember I remember living in the same house, like them together, and us having a lot of cats, cause I loved cats. And then, um, and then I just remember them not being together. So we would visit my dad's on that on weekends usually. So we would go to church there. It was called Bedford, bedford, iowa. It usually had a pastor that was a pastor of like five churches, usually like 10 people, old people. Usually me and my sisters were mostly the only kids a lot of the time. So it was a bit, a bit small, um so, but my parents, they got divorced and moved to the town over and six months later my mom got remarried to my stepdad. They're still married. Um, remarried to my stepdad. They're still married.

Speaker 2: 8:27

Um, my stepdad didn't grow up a Christian and he, uh, he became like a Christian once they were together, but it was, um, definitely not Adventist. He thought we were cult cults and um, so he kind of steered clear of that. Um, yeah, he had two sons already in a previous marriage, so added on two stepbrothers, um, but yeah, pretty much like I don't remember my parents together. And then I had another father figure, but he wasn't really present. He would, um, he would watch tv a lot. We would be eating or having like a birthday party and he would be watching tv or gone, um, so not really a great father figure, but uh, I did like going to see my dad. He, he, um, he's, he was like really handy, so he could sew, he could like build anything, um, like he knew how to take care of the snakes and stuff.

Speaker 2: 9:29

Um but so like in like kindergarten and um first grade, I always like had the best show and tells cause I would bring like an alligator or a parrot or you know like crazy stuff like that, and that was just normal. But I never felt like normal like other people. Uh, I had like a friend come over before and they were like uh, I don't ever want to come back just because it's like so smelly did it smell like the zoo in there pretty much yeah

Speaker 2: 10:04

wow but yeah, so I kind of always felt like different than everybody else, not only because of that, but I was like the only adventist in the whole town, pretty much. Um, I went to a lutheran school, like kindergarten to fifth grade, um, so it was pretty good like learning about god, but um, yeah, I just had such a like a wild childhood that I don't know like the journals you would do in kindergarten were just always a little off putting to the teachers. I don't know Like. One example is I was like oh, we came home and there was a dog stuck to another dog so my dad was going to shoot the dog type of stuff and it was like the dog was mating dog. I just like I don't know, just wild stuff mercy and then like the lifestyles were very different.

Speaker 2: 11:10

When I went to my mom's and my dad's because at my dad's we would watch like the simpsons my mom's we didn't have like tv at all, pretty much. So I was like wanted to watch like cartoon network but we didn't have like tv at all pretty much. So I was like wanted to watch like cartoon network but we didn't have like we didn't have that available to us and there was never like rules at my dad's and obviously different at my mom's. Um yeah, so that was kind of the beginning and what was god to you?

Speaker 1: 11:40

who was he?

Speaker 2: 11:40

um, so god developed being like definitely distant, kind of like my father figures, because my dad, he was pretty cool, I always like, wanted to like the same things as him. So he liked the cowboys, I liked cowboys. He liked the Cowboys. I liked the Cowboys. He liked yellow, I liked yellow. Like I did everything with him because I wanted just to be with him, but I think he wanted company more than he wanted like me, necessarily. I don't know if that makes sense, but I was just. I never got what I needed out of that relationship.

Speaker 2: 12:21

Anyway, so God was kind of someone that did miracles, definitely did like miracles. Like I would read like a blue letter book, you know, like one of those stories I actually blew. I don't remember the blue books. I would read one of those stories and it was like about money and how God will provide, and then I'll look in a pair of pants and I'll find a $20 bill and then I'll be like, oh, wow, god.

Speaker 2: 12:47

Kind of like always distant, but he did do miraculous things, yeah, so my, my dad ended up with another woman. She ended up living with him. They never got married, but she, she had, um, two kids and then they had a kid together, which is my younger half brother, um, and he's eight years. I don't know he's younger than me and he's eight years, I don't know he's younger than me, um. But yeah, so I always felt like, you know, there was like a lot of kids at that time which I liked. I liked like the big family vibe, but it was just always a little dysfunctional, like like she um gave my sister like weed to try at 14, you know, just like weird stuff like that, and then they ended up not together later. But the.

Speaker 2: 13:47

God of miracles is like one time we all took a trip as a family and we at the time we had the van with like the canoe roof, you know, like the rounded roof, so it's easier to roll, uh, but anyways, we went to see my grandparents in albuquerque and, like that trip was a trip of like catching snakes and like he was doing that. We were just along for the ride. But, um, when we were coming back, um, so like they were in the front and there was two car seats, there was a kid sleeping on the ground, like in the middle, and then there was like all our stuff. We put a mattress on the top and me and my three sisters were sleeping on the mattress on top, on top of all the snakes and stuff, to mind you. I mean, I don't think I realized that at the time.

Speaker 2: 14:43

But um, and we were pulling a car and um, it was like early in the morning and there was a tire like in the road and my almost step mom like swerved around it, but then we rolled in the ditch and so, like god of miracles, because, like the police officer said, if we would have been in our seat belts, like one of my sisters would have lost her arm. You know, like, because we were rolling and and everybody was okay, just like a few bumps do you remember this or did you just wake up?

Speaker 2: 15:17

Oh yeah, no, I remember seeing grass out the windshield and then we were in the ditch and then when I get scared I usually throw up, so that's what was happening to me. And then we rode to the ambulance to the hospital. That was somewhere in Nebraska, but God of Miracles, just things like that, where he would show protection or like that. He was there, but it was never like he was a part of my life. I mean, he was, but he was like a big thing, not like on my level, and a lot of times like praying. Back then I had journals and I don't know like where this came from, but I would just always sound so guilty in the prayers, Like I'm sorry I went to bed late, like that type of stuff. I'm like I don't know where that came from or if it was like church or the Lutheran school that I went to or my parents, but um, that was kind of, yeah, the vibe I had back then.

Speaker 1: 16:24

God's like it's cool, you could stay up late a little bit.

Speaker 2: 16:29

Yeah, I don't know. I had a book by Luther back then and I would read it and I just like related a lot with him.

Speaker 2: 16:36

I don't know like him just being terrible to yourself yeah to honor god yeah, like I always had a heart for god and I always wanted to follow him and also it just always was a skewed view of it. Another thing that was happening, like like when I went to school, I think, since I had like father figures that were kind of absent, even though they were there, um, I always just wanted a boyfriend, um, and I never could get a boyfriend. So I remember like in one of the grades I was like begging this guy to be my boyfriend and looking back back I'm just like so sad for me back then.

Speaker 1: 17:25

He's like nah, like what can you throw in the deal? Can I have some of your cookies for lunch, or can I have your chips?

Speaker 2: 17:32

Yeah, I mean that was all before fifth grade, so it was like nothing would have been serious anyways.

Speaker 1: 17:38

But you longed for male attention.

Speaker 2: 17:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I always felt like I just always kind of like said what I thought, and so a lot of people in my school felt that I was like a class clown just because I was like blunt and then my face would turn red, like often. So that was like another thing that they thought was like funny. And during that time my sister, my middle sister, she, she started having some like mental health problems. So that would carry over into school.

Speaker 2: 18:21

So like we were late most every day, uh, like especially when coming from my dad's house, and he would always write the same excuse like every day, like Kirstie is late for reasons beyond her control, which was true, I mean, I would have never been late, but, um, people like kids in my class, would start clapping when I would come in. So it was just like attention that I didn't really want. And, yeah, and then my older, oldest sister, which you know, uh, she would get into tension a lot, so I would have to stay after with her in detention because our ride was the same time. So I felt that, with all the attention that my sisters got, I was kind of like left behind and neglected a tiny bit, and I would tell my mom that, but it's not like her fault or anything that could have changed, you know, because my sister just had a lot of mental health stuff and that was what it was back then.

Speaker 1: 19:29

But circumstances, life.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Yeah, yeah. So and then, like another hard part, fifth grade, uh, we decided like mid mid school year my parents moved to Indiana, so I have other families that lives in Indiana. Um, like my grandma and some aunt and uncles, was really hard, like leaving all my friends, because I felt even though, like I felt different than everybody, I had a lot of good friends and we would play in the neighborhood. Um, I mean, sometimes it was hard because I could never do anything like on Saturdays and or Friday nights, and they didn't understand and I couldn't explain it either, because they're like oh, why can't you do something and then still go to church on saturday?

Speaker 2: 20:23

I don't know it just like never was like comfortable talking about that's a tough one yeah, but, um, but I think, like fifth grade, moving was like the start of never feeling like I have roots anywhere. Um, so we moved to ind. I went to like an Adventist school for half the fifth grade year. I didn't learn anything, it was fun, but it was not like good education. So so the next year I went to like a Christian Academy and I learned a lot and made pretty good friends, um, and like, uh, my aunt and uncle I'm really close to still, but I was close to them back then and my uncle was a youth pastor, so I would always go to like his youth camps every summer and a lot of the people went to that school that went to the church that he was involved with. So that was really nice. So I feel like I did make some friends there and I kept going to the camps or a mission trip until 2009. And I'm still in touch with some of them. So that was really good.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah, that was like one that was really good and I'm yeah, that was like one aspect that was really good there, but not a lot of good like church or spiritual aspect. Actually, I did forget something that that reminds me, um, when I was 11 before. I think it was before moving. So my dad lived in the country, so it's like dark, the house was half finished, so like the upstairs was like gutted, like needed drywall, and he showed me the movie it and Freddy Krueger, um, and then after 11, yeah, no and it's like, oh, you don't have to watch it, but if you don't want to watch it, go to the dark part of the house, like by yourself.

Speaker 2: 22:33

That was. I mean, that's like. So obviously I just stayed in bed and like covered my eyes. But after watching Freddy Krueger, my oldest sister said do you know what he does Like when you go to sleep? That's when he gets you. And then it was like time for bed. So I was like I literally spent the next year of my life not sleeping and I would like sleep with. I had a little orange Gideon Bible and I would sleep with it on my pillow and so, um, that kind of goes back to like the god of you know protection and um, like you didn't even watch the movies or you did watch them I mean there were parts that I saw, but I was like in the room while they were happening and I knew like I knew like what was happening Um, and like at that time too, my sister showed me like scream and final destination, anyways.

Speaker 2: 23:31

Like I was like scared for a year. So that's like another aspect of like my relationship with God. Like I feel like I did like cry out to him a lot, I guess. Or I like read um Bible verses and Psalms, like the Bible verse um about like what mere mortals can do to me. Like I would say that all the time because I was just like so scared from those movies.

Speaker 2: 24:02

But that leads me back to like when we lived in Indiana. I just remember like not being able to sleep, so I'd like sleep in the hallway closer to my parents sometimes, or just like terrified Mercy, but I just remember that lasting at least for a year, and then I think after that it was like better. But I talked to my dad about that later and he doesn't remember showing me the movies or like denies it. So I was like, okay, well, I remember. But, yeah, when we were in Indianaiana, so my mom's a nurse, so she worked in the hospital, and my stepdad did start going to a church and kind of like became born again, um, and my sister also, though, was having trouble, so I do remember her like going to like a hospital for a while, not really knowing why, but there was like other kids there that we would see, and, um, she was on some medications, um, so I remember that. What was she actually?

Speaker 2: 25:10

struggling with so like it took a long time for a diagnosis for her, but back then it was like depression, but then she ended up having schizophrenia, so like she would hear voices and um, kind of like borderline personality. So she was, um, like in and out of hospitals, different medication she would try, and it was just hard for for me, not knowing. You know, like as a kid you're a little selfish, so it's like she would just kind of ruin things for me and I just like never understood why back then. So it's like if we would go somewhere she would like be grumpy or you know, it's just like things I didn't understand at the time. But it's like she couldn't do all the physical or, you know, like the social things that I wanted to do or whatever, um, but after sixth grade. So I was going into seventh grade but, um, we moved back to to um, iowa because we had moved during the uh, I don't know, they just never could sell their house. So we ended up having to move back because they couldn't sell their house. So we moved back and I was closer to my dad again, um, and yeah, I decided to go to public school that year instead of going back to the school I had been going to.

Speaker 2: 26:58

So my seventh and eighth grade year I went there, um, during that time my sister was still having a lot of mental health issues and my stepdad, um, he had been a Marine and so that's like, that's like his personality and so that's like that's like his personality. So he never understood her at all, like he was just not a good influence for her, I guess. So, like I do remember, it was before my eighth grade year started and my stepdad went to like a men's group. Years started and my stepdad went to like a men's group and while he was gone my mom had probably already thought of this, but for me it was like all of a sudden, like we decided to just move out of the house. So like we were rushing to move out before he got back, took all of our stuff, and that was obviously really traumatic for me. My mom was having me like sneak back into the house to get things and I was always like scared he was gonna get back and we were like on a time crunch, um, anyways, anyways, we moved and um got everything unpacked in this apartment and that night he came over and he was like really angry, so he was like yelling at my mom and just seemed like physically abusive, even if he probably wouldn't have done anything, um. And so then that first night it just happened that like the air conditioning wasn't working and it was in the summer, so we stayed at a hotel and then it was just like so traumatic for me that every time like I heard a loud noise I thought he was going to come and like shoot us, even though like he doesn't, he didn't have a gun or I don't. Obviously that probably wouldn't ever have happened. But he was just like so angry, um, and she had moved out, like later had told me just because, like how it was affecting my sister and like because he wasn't kind to her um in her and her struggles and like he was definitely a better person since going to that church in Indiana, but still like wasn't like a great father and still had a lot of issues to work through.

Speaker 2: 29:36

So I made the decision to go away to academy academy, um and my mom went to indiana academy. So I decided to go there because I could live with my aunt and uncle and be village and go to the academy, um. And then so, like when I told my stepdad that he was um, he obviously didn't like understand because that's not like his world, like he grew up in a small town to stay there, um, but I remember god helping me because it was like uncomfortable talking to him in a car and then the power went out in the house. So he's like running out to go see what, what it was like what was going on with the house. So then I didn't have to have that conversation anymore about like staying because I just wanted to leave um, my, my sisters, uh, it was just hard living like with my family.

Speaker 2: 30:39

So I not only had like the dysfunctional like relationship between my mom and stepdad, but also like just my dad wasn't like. He just wasn't someone that I ever wanted to live with. He was always very like don't eat meat or not Don't eat pork and don't do this, but then he like never had like a true relationship, so it was always like fake. He would go to church but he would always show up late and I don't know. He was just never solid um there.

Speaker 2: 31:19

Once my, my younger brother was born, he would have us older siblings watch him all the time so he could work. I felt like if he ever wanted us to come over, it was just to watch him and not actually spend time with him. There was a time when I sent him a letter and I said I said like I don't like how you always ask me to come over just to watch him, and I love you, but I don't like you right now. And I was like I I quoted like a bible verse about the one where you're like throw, throw the little, it'd be better to be thrown in the sea with, like the thing around your neck. Oh yeah, I don't know. But uh, he didn't. We didn't have any communication for like a year. He never reached out to me, uh, never tried to like I don't know, and just never reached out. Eventually we started talking again.

Speaker 2: 32:17

But that's an intense verse you sent him yeah, I mean, I feel like I was always pretty straightforward, but, um, I don't know, and my, my stepdad would like read the psalms to me at night, which was like a positive thing, um, but he was just never like emotionally involved in the family.

Speaker 1: 32:42

So you're like get me to Academy.

Speaker 2: 32:44

Yeah, I mean I pretty much like after eighth grade I never lived at home again. I would spend my summers usually working or doing something, never like back at home which I was grateful for back at home which I was grateful for, and thinking of like my kids. Like that makes me sad and I I know that my mom, my mom, did the best she could and I had a lot of like rocky times with her, like when I was like 13, just because I think I was just hurt and felt neglected. So I was just always grumpy with her and you're also going through all the teenage stuff. But yeah, I think she felt that it would be good if I went away too, just because she knew that things were hard at home and she always tried to make it. So I had a really good relationship with my aunt and uncle just because they were a positive influence. There was like some good people in that school. I could never like make friends like well, I think it's just because I was village.

Speaker 1: 33:53

Um, it does help where it happens yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:58

But um, ia, I spent like I was like in the bible class. They had a bible class and you could just like ask a pastor a question, questions and so like. Back then I was like um, I mean, I'm sure you've seen men in black.

Speaker 2: 34:17

I have seen it okay I was like what if we're just like little tiny people on this little planet and god's like this, like that scene in men in black when they like open the locker, I don't, and there's like little, little tiny aliens and I don't know? I just like, I was like trying to discover like god, and I was like earnestly searching for god. Um, that just wasn't a good environment for me, sure, um, I like ended up being one of those people that like broke all my jesse mccartney cds and um got rid of all my secular music. Um, but also I was conflicted, cause I, I, I mean, I have a tendency to lean towards legalism, but that's just because I'm a rule follower. Uh, but the when I was there, the boys Dean, um, so there was like a rumor that like one of the senior boys had gotten somebody pregnant that didn't go to the school. He went to the boys dean and the dean like listened to him and ended up expelling him and he went for help, and so I was like furious about that.

Speaker 1: 35:38

That actually happened.

Speaker 2: 35:40

Yeah, so like I would like lean towards like the guilt and legalism stuff, but also I knew that like some things were just whack.

Speaker 1: 35:56

That's a tough scene. You go and you're like man, I need help, and he's like well, you can't get it here you gone yeah, senior year, um anyway.

Speaker 2: 36:08

So, like it was okay, I just I I didn't really have a great experience there, so they just decided I'm going to Centralia, Missouri.

Speaker 2: 36:19

Yeah, I was like anything's better than that. So I decided on Sunnydale, obviously because it's pretty close to Iowa. I don't know the first year at Sunnydale was like or the beginning. It was a little bit hard because I was more homesick just because I'm starting over again, didn't know anybody, I didn't have any of like the extended family anymore, but the people like my class and everybody I just like loved the people when I was there so I had definitely a better experience.

Speaker 1: 36:56

Yeah a better experience. Um, yeah, when you get to Academy and you're learning more about God, what? What is starting to like? What's the picture being painted in these Bible classes that you grabbed onto?

Speaker 2: 37:14

Um, so definitely nothing like life transforming, like like I've heard recently, but I was, like, wanted to do better and try and I, I like serving God. Um, I remember there was one youth rally, um that we had. I think Tyler was there too, and I don't remember where it was, if it was like at gpa, when it still existed or I don't know, but michael paradise was the speaker the man yeah, I just remember loving everything he said and like that, like the first time I actually like felt the Holy Spirit and it lasted for about a week.

Speaker 2: 38:05

So I mean, I just think I didn't have the guidance and you know, all of us were kind of like earnestly searching and also like trying to have like like a normal teen life. So, it was. But yeah, a lot of like good friends.

Speaker 1: 38:28

So you're getting through that, trying to figure out what was the plan for your life. What did you want to do?

Speaker 2: 38:33

Um, I think back then I didn't know, I didn't know. Um, yeah, I was still trying to get boyfriends and stuff. I think that was like the main thing I did really like Sunnydale. Um, a lot of people don't like all the rules and stuff, but since I'm a rule follower, I was like my heart would be pounding if I ever even thought about holding hand during like chapel, because I don't want to be put on social so I don't know social, so I don't know.

Speaker 1: 39:05

Good for you. You felt at home with, with the, with the rules. Yeah, is that what you kind?

Speaker 2: 39:08

of put on god too, that god is about these. Uh, yeah, I I mean, I don't even know if anybody said that, but that's what I picked up. We got to do our best because that's how god makes like, that's how God makes like, that's how we make God happy and that's how we'd be close to him. I don't know Like it'd be. I wish I could, like figure out the root of it so that it could be corrected Like. But it already is getting corrected, isn't it? Yeah. In some spaces.

Speaker 1: 39:36

Did you know where you wanted to go? You wanted to go to union. What'd you want to take?

Speaker 2: 39:42

um, I was actually deciding between union southern and then I really wanted to go to that the adventist college in canada but then richard young came to your school and convinced you.

Speaker 1: 39:56

Yeah, I was the recruiter. I don't know if I did a good job. I think did I go to your graduation yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:02

The funny thing is, though, you gave me um the wrong scholarship for union. It was higher than my gpa was, but they had to honor it let's go.

Speaker 2: 40:14

I did that, I knew I did that for you yeah, which is great, because by the time I was a junior at Union I could no longer even like afford it, so that was helpful, I think the first year I got paid. I started having like social anxiety. Once I got to Union and I'm not really sure I mean, obviously it was bigger, but I wish that wasn't. So I just like had a hard time going to the cafeteria if I didn't go with anybody and, um like by the end a lot of my friends were like in their own things, so like I ended up hanging out with uh, so like one of my friends had graduated and her boyfriend was still going there, so I would just hang out with him and this other friend, a lot like go to their apartment. But I feel like by the end of union I was just kind of like socially, not like having a great time, but I was also in the nursing program, so that gets pretty deep.

Speaker 2: 41:15

Yeah, you get pretty busy yeah, yeah, but I did, um make a couple of good friends from there and all right, college, college, okay. So, along with just like starting my freshman year, um, that christmas, uh, I spent happenstance with dad, so it was my dad and my oldest sister, um, at the time, my middle sister was in the hospital and, um, she was pretty much in and out of the hospital a lot Like during that time she attend union for a while. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:56

Yeah, she tried to.

Speaker 2: 41:57

Yeah, um, she was friends with friends with a. She had like a couple of really good friends and she lived in lincoln for a while. Um, but yeah she was. I think she was in the hospital there. That's like when we were at my dad's, because she wasn't there and I remember her being in the hospital.

Speaker 1: 42:17

But I have a real distinct memory of her, and maybe it's from your sister's wedding, and I just remember seeing her. This is like the first wedding I ever took photos at, and yeah that I didn't.

Speaker 2: 42:37

I don't think I talked to her much, but I just remember seeing her that day and, um, knowing that she was struggling a little bit yeah, yeah, so I was always like the closest with her, obviously, since we're closer in age too, um, but it was always hard like her relationship, just because all the struggles she had, so like with her type of schizophrenia she would if she like didn't see my face, she would hear me say something that I wasn't saying. So it's like that's pretty hard to like prove that it wasn't said. You know like the type of voices she heard, um, and she was plagued, plagued with it. Um, they would just be changing her medications all the time so she would go to the hospital for that um, have like bouts of like suicidal ideation, um, just a really hard illness. And I know like I don't remember when, but a couple of times like people anointed her and like would try to like pray over her, but that kind of like didn't do much and she always did like kind of like me, like have an earnest for God, and so, yeah, she had like a pure heart. But so that's like where she was.

Speaker 2: 44:07

That first freshman year she was in the hospital and we had like a really good Christmas at my dad's and a lot of the times like, and a lot of the times like like after Christmas I like dodged him, like he had come by my mom's house and talked to my sister, but I had dodged him Like I didn't want him to see me because I don't want him to ask me to babysit, because that was still happening. But he he worked as an LPN at a nursing home and he had a double knee replacement, like the year before. So I remember visiting him in the hospital and that was like a really hard recovery. He used to be like a marathon runner and really active, um, but that really like took a toll. And then he had some other health issues. So like that Christmas we had a really good Christmas.

Speaker 2: 45:05

Um, after Christmas I went with my mom to Kansas city actually to see one of her friends here, and so like we were just having a good time time, uh, and one of the mornings when I was at her house I got a call from my brother and my brother at the time was 11 and he was calling me that he couldn't wake my dad up. So like I I know that was like a God thing too, because my phone was like charging on silent and I usually wouldn't stay like in my room, but I was like on the internet looking for some something, and like I answered the phone and so then I was able to go out to like my mom and she was able to call the ambulance like. So that cause my brother lived by himself with my dad and they like they're the only ones there in the country, you know. So I'm just like grateful that he called me and I was able to like respond. But so my dad had passed away.

Speaker 2: 46:12

Um, they ended up doing an autopsy just because my sister in the hospital felt like she had caused the death. So they wanted to do an autopsy so that it could prove that it wasn't her Cause. Like her, the voices were telling her that she had caused him to die. Um, and he ended up. Well, it said like it was heart related. Um, so it was a sudden death and he died instantly. So he wasn't in pain or anything but very traumatic for my 11 year old brother to find, and that was like the first loss that any of us had experienced, and so that was just like a pivotal moment, and that was on a new year's or the 31st of December. So, yeah, he had enacted like a life insurance policy that was going to start on the first of the next year, so it's like it was just like weird things.

Speaker 2: 47:17

I mean I think it's still fine that that didn't happen, because money corrupts anyways, right, so anyway. So that was like during Christmas break of my freshman year and I had to go back to school. So I'm really good at shoving those feelings down, so that's why I did. There was like a grief, grief, support you group at union, because a couple of other girls in the dorm had parents that they lost that same year. So, yeah, I just remember that being a really hard time, but also just pretending like it wasn't. Um, yeah, the first father's day, like after he had died, happened to be landed on his birthday. So that was like a really hard day.

Speaker 2: 48:14

Um, I was working at Camp Heritage. That was like my first summer working there, and so I mean I just like it was hard for me to connect the dots with my feelings and like I was just so good at shoving them down that like I ended up crying like on that day, but luckily I was surrounded by friends, so that was helpful. And yeah, that was like the first time I got on like antidepressant also, because I just like after a year I was still like sad from that and struggling with it, which the antidepressant helped a lot. So that was good and. But working at Camp Heritage was like a really good experience. I and I felt that the atmosphere was like really good and the people were so nice.

Speaker 2: 49:04

That's when I went and I worked with Grant Herbal. It was like a great, great summer. Just some great people working there and then a lot of my high school friends that went to union with me. We all worked there together so it was just really fun and yeah so, but I still don't have a boyfriend. So my mom, like sophomore year, she signed me up for eHarmony back then the old days of eHarmony.

Speaker 1: 49:29

You're like 20 years old, I know, or something.

Speaker 2: 49:34

I talked to some people like. There was a guy I talked to that was like a farmer in South Dakota, an Adventist farmer, and it was like he couldn't move from there cause that's where his land was. But I think her, her thought, was that it would give me confidence. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 49:52

Did it give you confidence?

Speaker 2: 49:54

I guess so.

Speaker 1: 49:57

So you may not like me, but a farmer who owns a lot of land in South Dakota wants me to move there. So in your face.

Speaker 2: 50:07

Yeah, I think the problem was like at union. A lot of the cool guys were like on the basketball team, so like a lot of us girls like, like them, but I don't know they, they weren't really interested in us.

Speaker 1: 50:20

So that's probably when I was coaching the team.

Speaker 1: 50:24

We were not very good, yeah, you were there well, but they were just terrible seasons it's not about the basketball, I guess uh, I remember watching the a game and this girl was watching our team and this guy missed this shot and she was like, uh, he's the worst. And I just thought that is the exact opposite thing. That that guy wants Any girl sitting in there like you want them to think you're the man. And I was like man, it is a rough business out there being on that basketball team. Yeah Well, we always thought they were cool but but yeah, kind of after there being on that basketball team.

Speaker 2: 51:03

Yeah well, we always thought they were cool.

Speaker 2: 51:05

But but, yeah, kind of after after that year though, um, so my really close friend that I went to sunnydale with, uh brianna, she, uh, she was dating a guy that wasn't at I don't think he was at union yet. He eventually came to union, um, but he's from Kansas city and so he was friends with my now husband, steven. Um, so my my friend Brianna was like oh, I think you guys will be good together. And so then they, they like convinced him to visit and so like, oh, I think you guys will be good together. And so then they like convinced him to visit and so, like that was like in my mind, and so, like, we hit it off pretty right away. So we started like talking through email a lot, because I never had service in the town, like when I would go like for Thanksgiving or Christmas I would go home, and I never had service in the town Like when I would go like for Thanksgiving or Christmas I would go home and I never had service that's like on some 1999 type stuff.

Speaker 2: 52:12

Yeah, I'd never had service. I had a flip. Actually, I think I still had a flip phone then.

Speaker 2: 52:18

But yeah, so I would email him and we would like a video call, but I think it was like Skype you know, so we started talking for a while and what I liked about him was that he was honest and that he I mean he was like upfront, like some of the guys that I had liked. They never, I think they had liked me, but they were always a little too shy to do anything about it. So I mean I just liked his boldness and honesty, but I mean there was also like cons with that too, but, um, and he was planning on going to college in Florida, so he was like I don't really know if we should get in a relationship, but I like you, so maybe we should just be friends with benefits, which was not what I wanted to hear, cause I had kind of already been through that before. Cool, yeah, cool Sounds like a win-win.

Speaker 2: 53:28

But, but yeah, but so we would visit each other sometimes, like he would come up to Union, or like me and Brianna and my friend Nicole we would all come to Kansas City and like hang out at our friend Brian's house because his parents lived here.

Speaker 2: 53:45

So like that was like a fun time, like we had a big group of like people we'd hang out with here. But yeah, um, so like another thing I don't know where I got this from, but a lot of people will tell you not to have sex before marriage and like for some reason I thought the reason was because you would have like an emotional connection, and so like if you have that emotional connection, then it's just harder, like if you don't end up with that person. So like I, I had that emotional connection with my husband now or my boyfriend, and so like I was like, well, I already have that connection. So then I don't see the difference if you have sex or not, and I didn't want to have sex, but he was always pushing it, and so so like, eventually that's what happened.

Speaker 1: 54:48

You don't think that that's true.

Speaker 2: 54:50

No, I do. I do think it's true, but in my mindset I'm rationalizing it.

Speaker 2: 54:55

Yeah, yeah. I was like well, I already have this emotional connection, so what's going? The physical connection? Like I might as well just like finish the connection because it's already there, right? I don like I might as well just like finish the connection because it's already there, right? I don't know. I just never. I never had the birds and the bees talk. So I felt naive about everything. I never like was told like why sex before marriage wasn't like a great thing. Um, it was just always like that's what we do and that's what you don't do.

Speaker 1: 55:27

So yeah, it's a. It's a. It's a strong connection. It is the strongest connection, and so it does make it difficult to uh, to move on. Yeah, so together. Paul says that sexual immorality is a sin against the body, which means it's like you're bringing that person into the body of christ, because he's speaking to people who are a part of the body of christ. But they were, they were sleeping with prostitutes, and so he's like you're bringing that person into the body of christ. Um, so did you feel guilt, condemnation or shame, or were you just like this is life?

Speaker 2: 56:09

well, I think a lot of the prop, the problem with growing up in like a strict religion, is that I felt like they put sex on a pedestal. So it's like, so, like whenever, like it first happened, you're like, oh, that's it. I mean, it's just like they always made it like this thing, I don't know. So obviously I did feel shame, but I mean it was really hard for us not to do it, to be honest, and obviously, yeah, honest and obviously yeah. So, um, and then, like, uh, our relationship too. Like he told me, pretty much like at the beginning of our relationship, that people think porn is really gross but he's gonna keep doing it because, because, like, that's what he wants to do. So, like, obviously, that didn't sit well with me. So, like I told him I didn't want him to do that.

Speaker 2: 57:10

Um, and a lot of the reasons back then were like insecurity on my part, like, uh, not even like the moral stuff or like what I know now, but it's like I just literally felt like he was cheating on me and in a way, like he is. But, uh, I, I just remember, like the beginning of our relationship, it was just like two insecure people that like liked each other and just grew up together. But we were like pretty insecure and like if I would say the wrong thing I would like kick myself. You know, like trying to make the other person happy but not really, like not really focusing on like what my goals for life are or like I don't know. At that point it's just like I wanted someone to be with so bad that I I just had found the person that I liked and he liked me, and so then, like, if there were red flags, they weren't that big a deal, cause at that point, I mean, we were already having sex too. So yeah and um, that can be tough.

Speaker 2: 58:24

Yeah, he lied. He lied to my parents, like to their face, that we weren't having sex, and we lied to his parents too, cause that summer was actually the summer that my sister had gotten married, that you were at, and the week before she got married, the week before she got married, I was in Cancun with his family. Um, so like I barely barely made it back for the wedding because she told us like so late in advance, um, but like his parents would, they gave us like hotel rooms together, and then they would just be like okay, don't have sex. And that would be like what they would say.

Speaker 2: 59:05

So it like I don't know, like when I would say they really thought you were going to huh I don't know, maybe they hoped, but like I feel bad that like there was so much lying and also at that time it was just like what we were doing. Um, but yeah, my sister got married. I worked at Camp Heritage again, but that summer was harder because obviously had a boyfriend now and he wasn't there, and then the dynamics of camp were a little different. It seemed like a lot of the people that were there like coupled off, so they all had couples and I wasn't like involved in usually like there's a skit. On the last night I wasn't in, they didn't have me in it for some reason and I was staying. I wasn't even staying with like a cabin a lot of the time, cause, yeah, cause, I think by the end I was just like staying with some of the girls and I just felt like the atmosphere was so negative and I'm a type. I'm the type of person that if something's wrong I can't just sit in it. So I quit, I quit, like I miss, like the fun part, like the sit in it. So I quit, I quit, like I miss like the fun part, like the, where all the staff go to like silver, silver, dollar city and stuff. But I just quit and I left, cause like I couldn't handle it. I can't handle like negativity like that, um.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

But yeah, then I started my junior year at union. A lot of it was traveling to Kansas city, like back and forth on weekends. Um, a lot of my friends were kind of like involved in their own relationships too, even though, like we had I had a couple of girlfriends. And that year was a little different too, because I couldn't, I could no longer afford to go there, even with loans. So that was like another like miracle God thing was there was this lady that had a stroke in her fifties and she needed a student to live with her or somebody to live with her.

Speaker 2: 1:01:17

And I was a nursing student. So I lived with her for free, um, and I would help her. So I like helped with her food sometimes, or if she fell in the night I would help her, like call somebody or I don't know she could, she could walk, but it was like unstable and her health like wasn't great. So she had I lived with her free for that year, so I could afford to go to Union and I just found it on the bulletin. So that was like a miracle, because I wouldn't have been able to go to Union, yeah. So that was like a good thing, but I was kind of like isolated away from campus because it was like 15 minutes away and yeah. But just going through nursing school, traveling back and forth, seeing my boyfriend, having him come over hanging out with friends, social anxiety yeah, it feels like, uh, it feels tumultuous, it feels like unsettled the way you're describing it.

Speaker 2: 1:02:23

Yeah, uh, yeah, definitely. And there was a point, um, I felt convicted to not have sex anymore. Oh, actually, let's rewind, let's rewind, okay, no, so, uh, the there was one. I had been in my relationship for about a year so I had told him that I didn't want him to watch porn anymore. So obviously I believed that he wouldn't, um, and then I found that he had still been watching it, um, um, and at that point, uh, I think it was the summer, no, yeah, I don't know, I don't remember when, but I was like devastated, um, and I think it impacted him also, because I was like literally just like crying like the whole day, um, and it's not even only because the porn is, because he had lied to me about it too, and yeah, I just felt so insecure that I don't know, it was just like a bad combination and obviously that's not what we were meant to do anyways.

Speaker 2: 1:03:47

But so, like later in our relationship, I felt convicted to not have sex anymore before marriage and, um, he had come to visit or maybe I had visited him and I had told him that, but it was like really hard and we ended up having sex, but I like cried because I was so sad because I didn't want to and like one thing he had said to me back then was like I have been doing so good like not watching porn Cause I knew I was going to see you soon, and so then that's like another guilt thing that I had to deal with Um, and I think at that point actually he did go to Florida, so he was going to school in Florida, so it was more long distance than it was before Um. But yeah, that was kind of my self-esteem and worth was like making him happy, not following through on my convictions and I don't know, going through college, yeah, yeah. So the first two summers between college I worked at Camp Heritage. Then the second one, the third one, I lived in Florida and I told my mom that I was, um, his family was going to stay there too, cause he had just moved out, but it was just me and him, so I lied about that. But it was just me and him, so I lied about that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:30

Never was able to find a job too, which wasn't great. But I went into senior year I had even, like, looked at transferring schools to Florida because they have the good nursing program there, but I would have pretty much had to start over because it seems like credits never transfer.

Speaker 2: 1:05:48

Um, anyways, I went into my senior year and I lived with my friend Brianna and my friend Cassie. That was, that was fun. We lived in the Cooper, I think that's what they were called.

Speaker 1: 1:06:03

I don't know place whatever yeah, my memory that's where I asked you to marry me, and one of those really yeah oh, yeah, those are.

Speaker 2: 1:06:12

That was really fun living there. It was more affordable more affordable than the dorm, but I didn't have money to pay for food. So that's when I like that's like the lowest weight I've ever been was my senior year of college, but so nursing school went home for Christmas break and I spent it with my sister and my half brother, wyatt and I don't remember where my older sister was at that time but, like my sister was still living in Lincoln, my sister Brandy and then so she was staying with my mom. At that time she had just gotten out of the hospital. She had been in the hospital for about like six months and uh, like the six months before, uh, like the six months before, like, the reason she had gone to the hospital is because, um, we like she was running away, so like we were looking for her. So we went to her apartment in lincoln and we found her and she was trying to like run away, and I don't know if she was trying to like commit suicide or not, but she was driving like without her glasses, and she can't see without her glasses, you know. So, like I knew she just like wasn't in a good place, and I remember being back back then being like annoyed that I had to help my mom find her. So it was just like like the selfish selfishness back then just makes me sad to think about Um. So she went to the hospital for like six months and she was doing pretty good.

Speaker 2: 1:07:56

I ended up doing like she was in the hospital when I had my nursing rotation at that hospital, like the mental health. So they just put me on the guy's side so I like wouldn't like run into her, um, but yeah. So she got out a little before Christmas I don't remember exactly when, but then I was going to spend Christmas down in Kansas city with my husband's family, which not my husband then my husband's family, which not my husband, then Um, and so I was in Kansas city once again, um. But like before before I had left um to go to see to Kansas city, my stepdad and my mom like asked me outright if we were having sex, and I didn't lie that time because I don't really like lying. I mean, I was the type of person in high school that if somebody said the F word in a telephone game, I didn't want to say it. So they were going to have this serious conversation with us after we got back, and it always like made me upset because my stepdad, like was never a good father and suddenly, like when I'm in college, he wants to like control my life. That's what I felt back then Like you suddenly care, like what I'm doing now. Um, at that point it was like too late. Like you're not like a father figure, I don't respect you, um, anyway. So I went to Kansas city and I was going to have that conversation with him later, but while I was there, um, cause I was at my Stevens like whole family was there, uh, like a new year's party. Um, he called me and then he called Stephen, like, and I did not answer the phone because I was scared that he was just going to give us like a lecture and I was like not wanting that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:00

Um, but then, like Steven's mom pulled us out of we were just playing Mario Kart with everybody and had told me that my sister had died, and so, um, that was really hard, obviously, and, like my at the time, my stepdad was a police officer and so, like, she ended up like shooting herself with his gun as he was like getting ready for work, and that was like really hard because I had just talked to her, just talked to her like 30 minutes before she like asked to borrow something and she was planning on going back and trying to go to union again and I think, just like the medication she were on, she was on like all the side effects were really bad and just felt like impulsive anyways. So that happened and there was like a really bad snowstorm so I couldn't even like go home right away. So I was like stuck at my boyfriend's house with his parents and he had already gone back to Florida because he couldn't stay. So I was like alone there until, like I could go back. Yeah, so that was just another really hard like holiday season, the season like before my last semester at Union, and yeah, a lot of my family came out to Iowa and yeah, my sister had like so many health problems but she was like one of the kindest people and so funny. So that was just really hard but I had to finish. I had to finish union. So I went back.

Speaker 2: 1:11:57

I did go to counseling with the counselor there like a couple of times, but didn't really find that that helped much. But I think it helped being gone through a death before, like a couple of times, but didn't really found I find that that helped much. But, um, I think it helped being gone through a death before but and I knew that she wasn't like suffering anymore. So that was another solace. But like another thought I had was like, oh, thank you God, I don't have to have that sex conversation with my stepdad. I had was like, oh, thank you God, I don't have to have that sex conversation with my stepdad, which is just like, just like a dumb thing to think about at that point.

Speaker 1: 1:12:30

But yeah, yeah, I remember when, when she passed, I think we were kind of all in shock. We didn't, obviously didn't know the background Like you knew it. We just saw this student that lost their life. I don't even remember if we knew if it was a suicide or anything like that. I don't think we, I don't think, I don't think people ended up knowing, but I just I think, uh, I knew you the best out of all of them. And then I, yeah, it was just heartbreaking. I was looking at our conversation on I think it was on facebook messenger and one of our last conversations before love reality is me um, sending condolences and I was just, yeah, I remember that was a big yeah, it was terrible. I'm so sorry that, that happened yeah that was.

Speaker 2: 1:13:22

I mean, I would see her a lot because she lived at Lincoln. So I feel like even though sometimes it was like to help her do stuff like clean her house, or I just felt like I was definitely closer to her as a sister, as a sister and yeah, so, like I always wanted a big family when I was younger and I had a big family here and there, but like by the time like she died, I felt like an only child, like cause we weren't in touch with our step stepbrothers and weren't close to, like my half brothers side, because that ended up bad, you, you know, they ended up splitting up when I was younger. So so it just kind of, you know, felt, felt like a only child, which was not what I wanted. But I did finish that year and passed everything, um, like the teachers gave me grace on some things and graduated. Um, I, yeah, I graduated. And then I decided to move to Florida because my husband was still going to school there, like he had one year left. When did you guys get married?

Speaker 2: 1:14:53

2016.

Speaker 2: 1:14:54

So it was still not yet. Yeah, so I lived there the first year. Me and him and his cousin were all roommates Because I thought about, like getting my own place but, like I just thought it was a waste of money because I would be over there a lot, um. So, yeah, so we all lived there. I started nursing and that was like a good experience. I mean, florida was okay, living there. I.

Speaker 2: 1:15:32

We started going to church sometimes and the church there at the Florida Hospital Church at the time had a pastor that was really really amazing. I think he's retired now, but his like big focus was love and so, like, we always really liked the services. But it was big enough that nobody ever like connected with us, so I never like felt connected to it, and I was working night shift so it was kind of hard to do anything. But, yeah, he graduated in 2015, in like february, and so his degree was film, so he wanted to go to atlanta because that's like the second film location, um, so that's what we did. We moved to atlanta. Um, that was really hard.

Speaker 2: 1:16:26

Uh, so we lived in the city. It's like a gated apartment complex. So, yeah, that was like a year when we lived there. It was just like me and him um, just watching movies I was, he was finding a couple of jobs here and there lived, and so, like his mom was like you guys really need to get married at the courthouse or like stop living together because it's like immoral. Um, even though she was like paying for the rent some of the rent and uh, she like said like you need to do something. Like suddenly had like a conscience about like us living together. So two weeks before easter, I was like we could just get married there. So like I never, never, got like a proposal. We just decided to get married, had like a small wedding with my family that was already coming. Yeah, so two weeks, two weeks later, we got married in Alabama, which I always say like so it's 2016. And then in 2000, interracial couples were not even allowed to get married in alabama.

Speaker 2: 1:18:05

So just like crazy wow but yeah, so we got married and I felt like after getting married, even though everything was the same, I did feel more confident in like my insecurities. But I mean technically nothing changed. So I think that was just like my mind thinking that it was more covenantal, I don't know. And, um, when I first started dating my husband, he told me he didn't know if he believed in God. And at the time I I was like fine with that because he was such like a kind person and all the Christian people I had seen were usually two-faced. So like I was like I just felt that he was like such a good person that I didn't have any like other better examples of even like Christian people. So like all this time he was like he's fine, like with going to church and stuff, but he still doesn't know what he believes and he's still kind of like agnostic through that time.

Speaker 2: 1:19:24

Anyway, shortly after getting married, we moved to Iowa because we just wanted to be back closer to family. He wasn't finding work, um, like in the film industry and he didn't really have like the personality for it either, cause, um, he's pretty introverted, um. So we moved back to well, we moved to Iowa. I said I would never live in iowa, but we moved to des moines, which was like a compromise because it's a big city.

Speaker 2: 1:19:50

Yeah, yeah, so that was pretty good because my friend brianna and brian they got married and they were living there and so like we knew a few people and that was that was fun to like have those connections, um, but yeah, yeah, so at this point you feel like your life is kind of settled, like you've been through all of this ups and downs and these tragedies, and then, like now, we're back to living in Iowa, and now what's life going to be like?

Speaker 2: 1:20:25

Yeah, and now what's life going to be like? Yeah, I mean, I think the problem with having so many um deaths back to back is just like when stuff gets stable, then I'm like I start to get anxious that something bad is gonna happen. Um, so, like I, I still had like anxiety and stuff, but but, yeah, it seemed pretty stable. Marriage was pretty good. Um, it was fun living close to friends again. The church there were like wasn't that great, but we started going more regularly because there was like a young adult group and so there was like like the message was wasn't that great, but I was just happy to have more connections.

Speaker 2: 1:21:14

And at that time, my stepdad ended up having two different strokes. I don't really remember like the first year he had it, but I know the second time he had it was 2018. So, like my mom had helped my sister, like with her health, like all those years, and then she had passed away and now she's like going through this with my stepdad, like in all his health issues, and so, um, one positive thing that came out of that is I think it changed his personality a little bit, like calmed him down, not as Marine, like um, but but I still like, every time I was in the room with him I felt uncomfortable and it just like made my body uncomfortable. I just still don't really have a relationship with him at that time, even though we were closer. I don't really remember like anything standing out between those times until, like, I was working as a nurse in a clinic, made some friends there and then, 2019, I changed jobs to like an insurance job.

Speaker 2: 1:22:32

So I was working in an office and that was a great timing because COVID was about to happen soon. That was a great timing because COVID was about to happen soon. But at that time I think it was October 2019. I was like ready to have kids. My husband was not and, like he, I had convinced him kind of to get into like computer programming stuff, because he still wasn't like he was working at target at the time, and so he became an intern like around that time too.

Speaker 2: 1:23:09

So I just went off my birth control. I was like, well, if you don't have kids, then you can do something about it. If you don't have kids, then you can do something about it. So it took a couple of times, but then I did end up pregnant after a while. But it was like COVID time. So at the beginning of COVID I started doing therapy because I was getting a lot of anxiety when I was driving to work and I would just like think about everything and at that time like I was listening to crime podcasts, like all of that stuff. That's like all killers.

Speaker 2: 1:23:53

Yeah, yeah. I was like why am I anxious all the time? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:23:58

And then John Wayne Gacy killed these boys, and you're like why am I afraid?

Speaker 2: 1:24:03

Yeah, so like I went to therapy for a bit and it didn't really help because she I don't know I felt like it had to do with grief and grief and death, but she made it seem like the problem was driving. But but anyways, anyways, my problem got solved because covid happened and then I worked from home. I no longer had to drive.

Speaker 1: 1:24:23

yeah, did you really?

Speaker 2: 1:24:24

have less anxiety I really did, because the driving was a really bad time for me. That was like the scariest thing I ever did in a day. You know, go out on the road, um. But yeah, covid, that year was just like terrible. Um, with all the the george floyd stuff, the trump stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:24:49

I, like my, my stepdad, was very vocal about police officers and Trump and I would get in fights on Facebook with him and we pretty much like agree to not disagree or disagree to disagree and I just always had stress Because I have always been about like peace and love and so like that time was just stressful in the world, I think for everybody obviously. But COVID, all that stuff, um, but I ended up getting pregnant that March and by by my first appointment in May, found it, found out I had a miscarriage and so then that was just like another thing. So I it took like about six months like recovering from that because I ended up having to go to surgery for that, but six months later I got pregnant again. But six months later I got pregnant again. But the you know that's. That year was just like a bad year. That was the election year, just so many things, so so many things. I deleted a lot of people on Facebook that year. I always had to be like fair, so I deleted most everybody, cause I didn't want to just delete the people I wanted to leave. So I don't know, um, yeah, so after that I became pregnant in November and and, um, yeah, so I had my first child the next July and, um, I don't, I think that was like the biggest thing that happened.

Speaker 2: 1:26:45

Covid made it, so we stopped going to church completely. Um, the young adult group just like went away. A lot of people moved away from Iowa and like another thing I started doing then um, my aunt and uncle go to like a church in Indiana that's online. It's called Metanoia. It's very small and, like my uncle's uncle is the pastor. I started going back to that and that was nice because they are very like open and affirming, so I feel like it was like a safe way to, you know, reenter organized religion. And one of the book studies they did was on the Book of Forgiving by Desmond Tutu. Desmond.

Speaker 2: 1:27:36

Tutu, and that, I think, was the beginning of, like, the change in my life. Because in the book he says like to write a letter to the person that wronged you and to be like objective, like about the facts, like you did this. It made me feel this way and so I did that for my stepdad. I wrote it out and, um, I wrote it. I wrote out everything and at the end of each thing I put I forgive you and like. It took me a while and I didn't feel it. I didn't feel it. I didn't feel the forgiveness, um, but I read it to him in person and that was like the beginning of the healing of our relationship. Um, it still took a long time for my body to stop reacting to him, just being in the room, just because, like all the trauma of the past and a lot of people in my family like blamed him for my sister's death, since it was his gun, and he like wasn't very like, he didn't understand mental illness and stuff understand mental illness and stuff, um, but I I would say that definitely like began the journey for me and I knew that I had to forgive him because it was a poison to me, um, so I did that, but that was after 2020. I actually don't remember. I think that might've been like 2021 before I. I don't even remember if my son was. I think my son was already born after when I did that. Um, yeah, so that's like something that started like I started going to church there, that book forgiving my stepdad, forgiving my stepdad Um, I had postpartum depression, so I went on like something.

Speaker 2: 1:29:43

After my son and um, I ended up quitting my job because childcare like fell through, which was good Cause I hated my job at that time and so I was on, I wasn't working, I was just staying at home for like six months before I started a part-time, remote job, which is what I currently still do. Um, but a lot of that time just felt like ups and downs, like with hormones and taking the medication, feeling isolated. So we lived there in Iowa but nobody else lived there anymore and I was three hours from his family, two hours from my family, and yeah, it was just isolating. I I mean I would go out on walks and stuff, but I didn't have like. I mean I would go out on walks and stuff but I didn't have, like I didn't have anything. So, yeah, but it just continued on. I mean, it was like good times and I, but parenting was hard back then because I would just like wish for the next nap time, wish for bedtime, because it was just like so exhausting.

Speaker 2: 1:31:00

It's hard, yeah, but it's harder when you're not in freedom also. Yeah 100%.

Speaker 1: 1:31:08

Okay. I want to take a real quick break from this episode. I want to read you this review of the death to life podcast. It says this if you're burned out, you'll find Jesus. Check out these stories of transformation. The power is not in positive thinking or self-improvement. Jesus is who you need. He set me free from seven years of depression. Just give him a chance and see what he does for you. That is so beautiful. I love to hear these stories. I love to hear um the the transformation of what God has done, and so, if you love that and you want to hear more episodes, you want the podcast to get out there to more people, and we'd love for you to partner with us. Uh, wwwloverealityorg slash give. Everything we do is because of donations from people like you. It's the reason we're able to still do this ministry from internet church to the Bible studies to podcasts. You guys are the reason. So partner with us, loverealityorg slash give. We want this message to keep going forward and forward. Let's get back to this episode.

Speaker 2: 1:32:22

After my son turned a year old, we started trying again shortly after to get pregnant again and I it took a couple months got pregnant again and then had my daughter in April of 2023. Then had my daughter in April of 2023. And then this that was like the pivotal moment of like change too, because my husband shortly found out that he could no longer, he like couldn't handle two kids. So, like being isolated in Iowa and then, like, if he got overwhelmed, sometimes he would just like leave, like and then I would just be with the two kids, which at that time, I was still adjusting to. Also, um, and he had told me that that he was like depressed and sometimes he wished he would die. And, um, he thought he believed the lie that my son would be better off if he wasn't around, which is just sad because, like he's his favorite person in the world. Um, but he really wasn't doing good mentally and he said, like we're done having kids and like, yeah, so he got a vasectomy then and I talked to my uncle and he was like, essentially, you just need to, you need to like step up and do it, step up and be everything like. So in my mind I was like either I have to do everything or be a single parent because he's gonna like I don't know. I was just like always scared. He was gonna like do something or leave us or I don't know. It was just a lot with two kids and that was like a rock bottom moment. But that's also when I decided like we're moving to Kansas City because we need to be like by family and even if the family things didn't work out, I knew that there was a good church here with like I could get spiritually filled in that way, um, um, and and like I knew that at least one of the things would work out. So we moved when my daughter was four months old and that was kind of like all worked out by God too.

Speaker 2: 1:34:56

Because the housing market was insane. We had to buy new construction because all the other houses with houses would go within a day like overpriced, um. So we bought like a house, ended up moving in that August, and that that has been like very, very good for our family. Um, it's just been so nice at least seeing people Like I don't. I was like so isolated that I just like didn't see anybody except my kids and like I made a friend with a 90 year old that would walk with us sometimes. So, um, and I finally like to go to church. So I luckily like, even though my husband is still unsure about his beliefs um, he's always been fine with going to church with us to help with the kids, and so, like, that's one thing we do every time we can. Um, but yeah, I think that was like my rock bottom and that's when I first um heard about internet church and your podcasts and that was like my lifeline how'd you hear about it.

Speaker 2: 1:36:16

uh, grant Herbal posted something on his story on Instagram, so then I was interested in it, but my friend Savannah was actually the one that got me to go to Internet Church.

Speaker 1: 1:36:30

So it was just like check out this Internet Church that Grant had posted.

Speaker 2: 1:36:35

Yep, it was just like. That's literally all it was. I actually thought it was like. I thought it was like some adventist thing in california. I had like no idea what it was well, because justin's posting it and it's like probably got like palm trees in it, it's like hawaii or something yeah, and then I didn't know where you were living, so I knew that you were a part of it, but I didn't know, like I didn't know enough about it but savannah was like.

Speaker 2: 1:37:00

You should check this out yeah, yeah, and I was always scared to do it because it was like zoom and I didn't want to like have 10 people and then them notice when I came in or something, um. So it wasn't like that, luckily, um. But then I started listening to the podcast and the first one I ever listened to was Ben Walkinshaw, which was like the most recent one at that time and that was like not the best one to listen to first, but because, like I feel like my husband is a little bit like ben, like just like my husband is so insecure about himself that I think that's just like what I don't know. I just got that vibe from ben too and like I was like, oh, if my husband ever started working out, maybe he would cheat on me, you know, like yeah, you're listening to it through the, the wrong angle, or?

Speaker 1: 1:38:00

the wrong, lens right yeah, you're like man, my husband, better not get in shape.

Speaker 2: 1:38:07

Yeah, mercy but then I listened to tyler's and I was like, oh, this is just like, uh, an excuse thing for people that are, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:38:18

So that's why I heard it like this is an excuse, like well it's just so far.

Speaker 2: 1:38:24

I had only heard about like people cheating on so I was like, oh, this is just like. I don't know no, I get it yeah, and I listened to tyler's because I knew tyler. So I was like, oh, I can actually like know the person behind it. But then after that one I had to listen to yours because I was like I remember Richard, and you were always like the cool, the cool guy cool guy yeah, so I I always felt like I mean, I know people have said it before, but you came across as arrogant.

Speaker 2: 1:38:56

And so I felt like I mean I know people have said it before, but you came across as arrogant.

Speaker 1: 1:38:59

And so I was like.

Speaker 2: 1:39:01

So I was like, oh, I have to listen to Richards now, because I don't know if this thing is real or not. And so then I listened to yours and that's like. Then it just started to like click more.

Speaker 1: 1:39:12

So what started to click? What is the thing that started to be after hearing three lousy guys who are struggling in life? What's starting to click?

Speaker 2: 1:39:24

Well, I think definitely going to the Bible studies started to help and I did start listening to more of the episodes. But so for me it was never like the free from sin part, it was like the free from the sin committed against you. And, yeah, I started. I think shortly after that they had like a wave, one on the internet that was live. So I did that I don't know it just like changed my self, self-worth, like my identity, identity and that was like the biggest thing.

Speaker 2: 1:40:01

Over time, like for me it's been like a slow learn. It hasn't been like overnight. But now I just like look back at some of those situations I was in and I'm like if I would have known what I know now, I would have never had sex before marriage and I would have been okay with that. Like I would have been okay with how the relationship might've turned out If I would have stood by, like what I believed. I just um, I don't know. I just it was so liberate, liberating to learn that I didn't have to do anything. So then I was like, what do I do now?

Speaker 1: 1:40:46

You know it was liberating to learn that.

Speaker 2: 1:40:51

Did it ever hit like that you were really loved by God? Yeah, it's definitely hit. I feel like now like I don't know, like I, I don't know why I just had like such a bad view of god, like even reading genesis.

Speaker 1: 1:41:09

You don't know why we should listen to the last hour and 50 minutes of this episode like there's been some hard times, hasn't there been?

Speaker 2: 1:41:19

yeah, but I mean, god didn't cause him, though I mean I don't know like no, he didn't I know, but if you think he did, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:41:32

So I just I didn't. I think it's because god was always distant to me. And another thing that was radically changing my life was I didn't know that like Christ actually lived in you and that you had that power, and I don't, I just never, never knew that. So that was, that was the biggest thing. Like I would just recite um, uh, galatians 220. Yeah, 220, and second Corinthians, five, 17. And like I'm a new creation and that I'm free and I, I don't know, it's just, it's been like a slow burn, but the more, the more I get into it, it's just, it's been like a slow burn, but the more the more I get into it.

Speaker 1: 1:42:20

Have you seen those verses before?

Speaker 2: 1:42:24

I know that I've seen some of them, but I don't remember those specifically. Like, I just feel like even reading the Bible back then, like I read the Bible a lot, and now reading it again, it's like I hadn't even read it before. I don't know, it is literally like scales on your eyes, like because there was verses that I really liked. I liked Philippians, like in high school, a lot, and related a lot with it, but I just never. I never got the good stuff out of it. Even going back to Genesis, I was just like blown away by how God didn't cause all the bad stuff to happen. I don't know. It's like he literally wanted to save us from the beginning, and like learning that he thought about me before he even made the world. Like I don't know, he was always so distant in my mind, even though I was like frantically trying to get close to him all my life. I don't know. Just like him living inside of me was like the biggest. So do you?

Speaker 1: 1:43:35

think that, not trying to get close to God, but believing that he has come close to you, you think that has been a difference.

Speaker 2: 1:43:43

Yeah, yeah, cause my, my aunt and uncle so my aunt would one time was like I was so used to legalism. She was like, well, you gotta be careful with like what you watch and see and stuff, because it's important for your heart and soul. And I was just like so into legalism or you know, like I was going the opposite way of legalism that I was like I just only thought about it, like oh yeah, you're just telling me what to do and that's like it never like hit that like literally. Now I don't do anything that I used to do. And that's like it never like hit that like literally now I don't do anything that I used to do and it's because I actually don't want to.

Speaker 2: 1:44:25

And it's just like when Jonathan talks about like driving the speed limit, because you actually want to like keep people safe instead of just not breaking the law. That's like how my mind has changed Like I don't know. I feel like over the years I got so desensitized with things and I was trying to get rid of my legalistic guilty like mindset that I would just go the other way, even with, like the Sabbath, I would try not to focus on keeping it at all, just so I didn't feel guilty and just so I could actually enjoy it. But then it like went too far. You know the other way that makes sense forced to keep it.

Speaker 1: 1:45:19

A certain way it makes that awesomeness disappear, like if you make it about something legal, you know some of you said about watching something you know, thinking about you watching the movie it and nightmare on elm street, age 11, like there's certainly we should be careful with with what we watch because it does affect us. But if we're to be careful with what we watch because we could lose our salvation or something I like, I think that becomes the problem. When we make these things like this is what gets you out of christ rather than you have actually are holy like you've been set apart and these things like you're only like.

Speaker 1: 1:45:58

Think about things that are pure. Think about things that are lovely. Think about things that are commendable, like if there's anything worthy of praise. Think about these things like we should be considering and meditating on the beautiful things of life maybe not like a sewer clown pulling children's arms off, and so, yeah, it does make a difference. But when you look at it from a legalistic way, then you'll want to watch, whatever the garbage is.

Speaker 2: 1:46:25

Yeah, and that's the crazy part, because, like I was, that wasn't like Christian music in a year and that's just because, literally, I only have so much time and I'm just like trying to fill it up with as much God as I can and like I don't want the other things anymore, which is just like a shift from being forced to not do the things.

Speaker 1: 1:47:00

So talk to me about the lens that you read scripture. With that, what was the biggest difference on how you were reading the scripture?

Speaker 2: 1:47:11

Um, well, I think I was just reading it to not feel okay. Yeah, because I feel like I was stuck in the like I gotta read my devotions every day. If I don't, then you know I felt guilty. So so, like now I actually read it because I want to learn more about God.

Speaker 2: 1:47:37

I don't know, it's just like so sad that I was feeling that way, but I'm just so grateful to be where I am now and I've definitely seen like a shift in my parenting and like so now, like we live in Kansas city, we moved again and I live with my parents, like my stepdad and my mom, and we went through another election season with Trump people and, um, I, I had no like feelings of anger towards my stepdad and I was able to have like a dialogue with him like about like loving people, and I could actually love him and I would have never been able to do that before and I actually finally, you know, after living here and having them here, like I don't have any feelings of like uncomfortableness with him now, and I know that's only God. And the crazy thing is, too is like me changing has changed him and the church he's gone to too, so he's become actually like born again, born again. So now his focus isn't like on politics as much, it's actually on Jesus. So I think, like I see everything different in that way, there's still like some things that are an ongoing process, like in my relationship with my, my husband, like there's some things I'm waiting on, but I'm learning.

Speaker 2: 1:49:24

Like God speaks to me more often than before, like through other people, and I mean I hear him more often than before and so, um, I know, I know that I just need to trust in him, cause, like even with my husband, like there's some behaviors that I'm not like okay with, but God has told me to trust in him and not do anything about it. And it's not really the behaviors that matter, is what I've learned, it's the heart, you know. So, like I don't know, I actually read the Bible because I want to and I enjoy time with God and yeah, and I just love that, I see it more frequently throughout the world too, like in videos. My sister's like going through the similar thing, but she found it like a totally different way and yeah, I I would say like, without learning what I've learned, parenting is like 100% harder.

Speaker 2: 1:50:34

So absolutely and also like parenting was actually like one of the things that did show me god's love too, like having a daughter of my own. I just love her so much, and so that does help me see the love of god for me too but when I saw you on the bible studies, I I was like is that who?

Speaker 1: 1:50:59

I think it is, cause we haven't kept in touch throughout the years. And I don't know if I asked Savannah or I don't know what. But then she was like no, yeah, that's, that's Kirstie. And I was like wow, that's. I was like that's random, how, how did she show up here? And then seeing you show up and be a regular at the Bible study, and it made me just think, yeah, if anybody gets a hold of this thing, it's good news, like it's life changing, life transforming news. If it's not grabbing somebody, it's not that the news is bad. And so I've loved to see you kind of come alive and even raise your hand and say something, and it's just been a blessing, uh, to have you a part of our community. Where, where would you, let's say you were going to go back and talk to Kirstie? What time would you pick to go in and talk to her?

Speaker 2: 1:52:02

put your arm around her and tell her what she has.

Speaker 2: 1:52:03

I mean there's so many times yeah, but uh, I would say probably like in college yeah yeah, just like college was like a really good but also really hard time and I almost I don't want to go back to that time in my life. But man, it would be so much more fun if I was in freedom back then, like just everything about that time period do you ever think that, like man, if I would have known that this stuff back then, I could just love some people?

Speaker 1: 1:52:43

yeah I could take no record of wrongs, I could just. I could just give, lay my life down and stop caring about what people think yeah, well, is that what you would tell her? You put your arm around her and you say girl, what would you say to her?

Speaker 2: 1:53:01

I'd say you don't have to do anything. I would just try to tell her about God's love. I think yeah, because I think that was the thing I just always felt so distant from God, even though I was trying so hard. So tell her that he can live in you, like he's with you and he wants you. You are his. Yeah, I think that's probably what I would say.

Speaker 1: 1:53:33

Let's go. Thank you so much for sharing your story and um no, I appreciate you yeah, thanks.