Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#226 Diana Moddrell: Breaking Free from Spiritual Legalism
Diana shares her transformative journey from rigid religious legalism to experiencing God's unconditional love and freedom in Christ. Her story reveals how understanding grace completely changed her life, healing her from addiction and anxiety.
• Growing up without a father, Diana was taught from childhood that God was her father
• Began experimenting with alcohol at age 10 while living as a latchkey kid
• Met her husband Micah in elementary school and married shortly after high school
• Struggled with postpartum depression after the miracle birth of their son
• Initially embraced extreme legalism in parenting and spiritual practices
• Became angry when her husband started exploring a grace-centered approach to faith
• Experienced a life-threatening COVID battle that became a spiritual turning point
• Found freedom from addiction and anxiety when she truly understood God's unconditional love
• Discovered in Romans 5:8 that God demonstrates His love through Christ's sacrifice while we were still sinners
• Now passionate about sharing the liberating truth of the gospel with others
If you want to experience this same freedom, join us for our Bible studies where we're growing and learning how to walk in liberty. Visit loverealityorg to get connected and partner with us through your generous giving.
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:It was Church school has trained me for this. When someone's preaching love, this is a sign. This is not right. Like you know what I mean. When someone's teaching unity, it's the end of days and and this is like you know, like it was really like when you think, is the end of days, unity, it freaked me out, and so I went shields up up like big time, and so what he would do he's just so patient with me what he would do is he would turn up the volume and so I would leave the room. I would be up the volume and so I would leave the room. I would be in the kitchen, I would be somewhere else and I would be listening, and then I was like that's wrong, that's wrong.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Dead to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and we are in the middle of Oklahoma month. Maybe we're getting towards the end, but you heard Micah's story. This is Micah's wife, diana, and her story is powerful. Maybe I resonated with it because we're relatives from the old country. I don't know. Maybe it's just her honesty and vulnerability and I don't know. I just think God has given her such a heart to love and there was just so many lies in the way. But this is the story about how those lies got cleared out and it's beautiful and I think you're going to get a huge blessing out of it. It's probably not for the kids out of it's probably not for the kids, but it is uh so good.
Speaker 1:So this is diana. Uh, buckle up and strap in love. Y'all appreciate y' all. Okay? Uh, diana, you have joined for another episode of ok Month here on the Death to Life podcast. We started with your husband and then we had Wes and now we're having you. How do you feel about being the guest of honor on Oklahoma Month on the Death to Life?
Speaker 2:podcast. It feels great, it feels like winning the championship. So we heard your husband's story and where are we going to start with your story? Wherever?
Speaker 1:you want, we can start wherever. He told us a little bit about your job at Panera, but why don't you give us a little bit about your background? In your spiritual life? Did you grow up a Christian?
Speaker 2:Where did you grow up? So I did grow up a Christian. My mom visited many churches as I was growing up, visited many churches as I was like growing up, so we went to Baptist church, pentecostal church and um Adventist church and just things like that. I think that, um, the most important thing for her was for us to have a relationship with God, and so, um, I think it was super, super important to her that we would have that relationship, because we, my sister and I, we grew up without a dad and so, um, so ever since we were little and you know we would ask um, she was always like God's your father?
Speaker 2:you know, and so, um, we would always talk to him like conversationally, my sister and I, like we were little and we would go in the backyard and we had these, uh, bamboo trees in the back and it felt like we were going on a safari or something.
Speaker 1:Where did you grow up?
Speaker 2:remind me in oklahoma we have bamboo, we have wild bamboo that it's really invasive, but is that all over oklahoma? No, it really isn't, but we did have it in our backyard and it was like you would cut it down and it would get huge um every year yeah, and so we would go back there and we would just talk to god like out loud that's awesome yeah, I did talk to my mom about that, probably last year, and she said that it would make her cry to hear us talk to god, because it it made her happy that he was able to fill that role for us, you know, and so yeah
Speaker 1:so, but she didn't have any specific denominations so she grew up catholic she was.
Speaker 2:They were very, very Catholic when she was a kid. And then they have like she was waiting to turn 15. Because when you turn 15, they would have like this huge party at the house she was one of 12. And they would have dancing and drinking and all this stuff, and so she was super pumped. She's like I'm going to be 15., we're going to do this. And then when she turned 15, her parents became Christian and she didn't get her, she didn't get her party, but, um, so she became Evangelica. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And evangelical. Yes, and so she became evangelical, but she did also attend the Adventist church down there in El Salvador. Are we cousins? We could be. You gave me an El Salvador key chain, didn't you? Yes, it is still on my keys. That's right. That's the only key chain I have is the one you gave me. So, thank you. But yeah, I think we talked about that before. That reminded me that we're cousins. We're cousins. She attended one in El Salvador and then, when she came up, she still kept her options open.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when she came here, she started going to Adventist Church and then I think that there was like some off-putting things that happened, not with the message, but more so with the people, and so she was just kind of like I'll step, I'll step away, it's okay. And then we went to an american church. It was a baptist church and then, um, we were losing our spanish. So she was like okay, let's go to pentecostal church. You guys need to make sure, I need to make sure you guys speak spanish. So we went to Pentecostal church, which was Hispanic, um, in Spanish. And, um, we stayed there until I was probably 10 and my aunt called my mom.
Speaker 2:This is so random. My aunt called my mom because her kids were going to start at an Adventist school and they were going to be the only Hispanic kids there and my cousins had recently not all of them, but some of them had recently come from El Salvador, so they didn't speak English. So she begged my mom to send us to this Adventist school, and so my mom agreed. And that's when I met Micah in third grade In third grade.
Speaker 2:He was in second, I was in third, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know it's a common tale of elementary school sweethearts. It's a tale as old as time. Uh, it is not, that's so. When did you, uh and micah, develop feelings for each other?
Speaker 2:um. So it didn't happen then, but it would have had. It would have been like seventh and eighth grade. We would just hang out and we would joke and, um, we just loved making each other laugh. And so one day I passed him a note I'm the one that passed the note and it was like do you want to be my boyfriend?
Speaker 1:check yes, check no and I slipped it no, this was seventh, eighth and um, and he checked, yes, and I was like okay man and and since then you did you break up a couple times, a few times, or was it straight? All one time, one time what's the who broke up with?
Speaker 2:who, oh, oh, it was bad. Um, it was, oh, this is bad. It was New Year's Eve, had it been 2005. It just, I think he was playing video games or something and I was talking to him and then I was like you know what, maybe we should just take a break. And he was like, yeah, probably, and I was like okay, and then that was it. That was just over the phone, and then I was crushed, like, even though I was kind of like, like you know, I was crushed and that was really bad. That was a really how many days did you guys stay broken up? It was like eight months and oh, wow, yes, so, oh, it was so bad. Um, a friend of mine had also been broken up with and, um, and so we just started partying you know, know, to forget, I guess and, um, we were like drinking and and smoking and it just, and I was in, I was in 10th grade and it was just not a good situation and it was just not a good situation.
Speaker 1:So I didn't mean to get to that bummer of a story. So let's go back a little bit. Growing up God is. Who is he to you?
Speaker 2:God is my father and I talked to him all the time and, um, yeah, and then I would like. So I started drinking at the age of 10. And why? So my mom was a very she was a single parent, and so she always had two to three jobs at a time, and so she would work like, let's say, when she worked two jobs, she would work the 3 to 11 shift and then the 11 to seven shift.
Speaker 1:So three to 11.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So seven, so she had a few hours of rest.
Speaker 2:Yes and that, but that's and that's when she only had two jobs, and so, um, we, my sister and I, we would, would I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 1:If you're listening to this sister, it's okay.
Speaker 2:Me and a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a person.
Speaker 2:We would just we would come home. We were latchkey kids, so we would get a ride home and we would kind of be on our own, and then we would go to school, like we would rarely see my mom, except whenever we, whenever she would take off for church or whatever, and um, and so in the summertime, that was, that was prime time. You know, sure, and my sister is four years older than me, and so in order for me not to snitch.
Speaker 1:She had to include me.
Speaker 2:In order for you not to snitch yes. How sweet is that? So, yeah, so, yeah. So we would have parties at friends' houses, and there was a friend in particular and her mother was really big into drinking, and so she would just let us have free range of her collection. Yeah, thinking back, it wasn't the best.
Speaker 1:And so yeah.
Speaker 2:What'd you drink? Oh, 10 years old. So I remember drinking jagermeister and um vodka was easy because it was clear you, you could put that in a water bottle, you could, you know, do whatever and um it, it was just really strong. We would have um what else?
Speaker 1:Did you develop a taste for this at 10 years old?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I don't think that I enjoyed it, I don't think that I craved it or anything like that. All I knew is that at the age of 10, because I was the smallest one I felt like I had something to prove, and so I would try to out drink everybody else, to out drink everybody else, and um, and that wasn't, it was not a good idea. And that's when I started. Um, that's when I tried smoking marijuana. I tried smoking cigarettes, but my asthmatic lungs said no, thank you. Um, and so it was a blessing because I didn't get addicted to nicotine. But um, but yeah, it was just yeah, but we would still like be at church doing our thing you know, I don't know, did you feel like bad about it?
Speaker 1:or you're just like this is life. So what did you feel like bad about it? Or you're just like?
Speaker 2:this is life. Um, I did. I did feel bad about it after. I think in the moment, like once you're drunk, you don't care. I, you know, um, but afterwards the guilt was set in. It was like what are you doing? You know I? How do I say this? I understood that it wasn't good for my body, if that makes sense, sure, and so I felt bad about it in a spiritual way, but I also felt bad about it in a health perspective. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:And so I think those things were just kind of no.
Speaker 1:It just wasn't great. So, as you're going up, I mean, this wasn't like a habit that you got. Was it a habit that you got into, or was it just here and there?
Speaker 1:The summers were wild, and then school would start back up and then it was like here and there it was, you know because, yeah it was, I still had to be up in the morning, you know you know, um, yeah, so then by the time you're in high school and you and micah are dating, was it like a big part of your life, or this is just like oh, footnote, here there was a you know, when the party life, and so I mean, and I say that, but we were also like little SDA kids, you know.
Speaker 2:So I don't think it compares to some other kids, I'm sure, but but still like, yes, we would, we would drive around and we would smoke and we would drink, and yeah, it was that's kind of that's kind of wild. It's wild. Oh, it's almost. It's terrifying, because I help out a lot at the school now to see these kids and I'm like the things that I was doing at your age, like I'm just yeah well, praise god.
Speaker 1:So you're going through school. You love God. God is your father.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think I talked to him less, especially during those times. You know what I mean Like I just didn't really reach out as much. Right.
Speaker 2:And maybe it was the guilt, I don't know, but just life seems so like unpredictable. So my I think the fact that my mom was never home was like a really big deal, really big deal. And the cope, the ways that I chose to cope were just not healthy and I was I became very, very angry and so, yeah, but with Micah, like I would laugh and I would joke and he knew he knew my home life and he was just like this little ray of sunshine.
Speaker 1:That's what he is now. Yeah he still is Just a big old ray of sunshine. So then when you guys broke up in 10th grade there's the sunshine I thought you were gonna say like three weeks, but eight months, that's quite a bit of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah were you guys friends, or was it like no, no, it was like a complete, like severing, it was just just so who, who?
Speaker 1:who got back with who? Then? How did that work?
Speaker 2:so a lot of really bad stuff happened that summer not to him, but um, yeah, and so it had to have been my junior year actually actually not my, not my, not 10th grade and um, when we went back to school, we were in the same classroom and so, um, we just I feel like it was inevitable, we at the beginning we didn't talk, and then, um little by little, like we started talking again. But I think what really brought us back together was basketball let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did? How did basketball bring you back together, like Like the? Movie basketball, was it like that you guys were playing one-on-one?
Speaker 2:Yes, seriously, it really was. Yeah, because I really enjoyed playing Uh-huh and he enjoyed playing basketball as well, and so we would just whenever it was time, like when we would have break after lunch or whatever, we would go put up some shots and and be like okay, do you want to play?
Speaker 1:like okay, cool, and I think that's how it, that's how I think that's kind of how things, how the ice broke, you know that's real sweet yeah and so then was it just like you guys started hanging out and it was like you know what we, we probably ought to be back together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of Um. I don't remember what ended up happening, but I think I needed a ride home from school and he was like, well, I can take you. And I said okay, and so he drove me to the house. And then we just talked, you know, and I shared like what had happened throughout these eight months, and then we realized that we really missed each other.
Speaker 1:And so we got back together, and so then you got married a couple days after high school graduation. Was that? Who was more down for that? Was it? Just both of you guys were like we're in it, let's might as well, or who was who was pushing that?
Speaker 2:so he asked, I didn't ask, he he asked and I was like it was was again. It was Alcohol was involved in the engagement?
Speaker 1:It was yes. So all that part of the story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure he didn't. Well, I know he didn't, but we were house sitting. Well, one of us was house sitting and a party was thrown and um, we were there I couldn't even see straight Like I was like you know, close one eye just to see you know one of you. And then, um, he's like I want you to marry me or will you marry me? And he's like I want you to marry me or will you marry me? And I think he had a ring at the time and I was like okay, that was it.
Speaker 1:Did you tell your mom and dad or, excuse me, tell your mom, and she's just like okay.
Speaker 2:So at that point my dad was there, okay, and yeah, I told them so one thing because of everything that had happened well, cause, you know, I said, if we're going to get back together, you need to ask my mom for permission. And he was like what Cause? Culturally?
Speaker 2:that's not a thing, that he that they do that, that his cultureics, yes, the hispanics. Like you have to ask my parents, yeah, anyways. So, um, so I said you're gonna have to ask my mom. And so he asked her and she was a little bit reluctant but she said, okay, and she's four, eight, like she's just this tiny little lady. And he was nervous but, um, but yeah, I think I think my mom was probably a little bit nervous. She said she did say one thing to me. She said because she does end of life care, she goes, this end of life care, she goes how are you going to pick him up when you're old? And I was like I don't know.
Speaker 1:What if that's the reason you guys didn't get married Like you're? Too big and when I'm not going to be able to pick you up. So that's so sweet. So was marriage like right away? Was it what you thought it was going to be? Was it different?
Speaker 2:It. I think that. So I think that because we were friends, it was kind of like at first it was like having a sleepover with your friend, but it was so fun. You know, you talk, you hang out, it was um, but it was also like you go to work together, you go to school together, you're taking the same classes together, and so it was really, really fun, until I feel like reality sets in a little bit where it's like you're not as flawless as I once remembered you being. You know what I mean Like, oh, I just found your shoes again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and um, and I think that we were dealing with things like we were maturing, we were trying to figure out who we were, and so I do think that we had some growing pains. Sure, you know, at the beginning of our marriage I was kind of like pushing for, you know, maybe not doing drugs anymore and drinking, and let's not do this and have an idea let's not do drugs anymore.
Speaker 2:And he's yeah, I like drugs and so, and so I felt like I was very conservative. It felt like I was being very conservative by making those suggestions and so, yeah, I don't know, it was just yeah.
Speaker 1:Who was God at this point? Was he good with you guys? Were you good with him? Was he a part of your life?
Speaker 2:So I think that because we grew up in the church, god always had a place, but it wasn't like I don't think that we reached out to him like we, like we could have.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Like we were still going to church on Saturday, but we might not have been making the best choices throughout the week. So when I was in high school, middle school, there was a lady that came to the school and she was like an old meth head and did all this stuff and she said one thing that stuck with me throughout my life and she said whatever you do, don't ever let go of God. Like when you mess up, when you do this, when you do that, whatever it is, when life is busy, when life is happy, when life is sad, like, whatever you do, don't let go of God. And so I think that we always made it a point and sometimes it was more of a habit to have him there, like your prayers, your nighttime, you know, before you eat or whatever. But he was always, he always had a place. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:no, it does make sense and you wanted more of him but you didn't really know how, like you were kind of starting to go after it.
Speaker 2:It a little bit more. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So as time goes by and you're young adults, um, from micah's story you're working restaurant gigs, um, and restaurant gigs. I love restaurant gigs because I have adhd and everything's moving, moving, moving and there's a rush. Did you enjoy that part of your life?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was, it was. It was really nice. It was really nice until you got home and you put your feet up and you realize how much your legs hurt.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:From standing for so long. But yeah, like Sometimes we even think about it and we're like man, like just to go back and work for one day, like it would be so fun, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, complaining about the customer, but fixing I don't know. I love that part of it. So, as you're getting older and you're going through life, did you guys pretty much chill with the drugs and the drinking or was it kind of like every once in a while, kind of like I?
Speaker 2:think we we chilled for the most part. Um, we chilled for the most part, I would say. And then we, like, when we bought our first house, then we went through like a mimosa phase. It was, yeah, we went through a mimosa phase and then, um, like every day, you're like it's breakfast time.
Speaker 2:No, it was Sunday. Sunday it was, yeah, we were like let's do it and you know, but it was kind of like an unwind kind of thing, I don't know it. Probably it it like it wasn't great. It just we shouldn. I don't know it wasn't great, we shouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1:But then, as you're going, when did you see Micah heading towards a more conservative life?
Speaker 2:And how did that hit you? So I think he did make mention it was when a pastor moved into, um, not moved into when a pastor started coming, like when we changed pastors and um, at that point at by that time I think, we had isaac, which which isn't a miracle of its own, but um, it was really, really hard. So at that point I was a stay at home mom, which I never thought I would be, would be, and I was sad, like when I was 10 cycle and it lasted a month, oh no. And so at the age of 10, I was started on birth control. Then I continued to have issues, so I continue to say that that was normal.
Speaker 1:Like that's not.
Speaker 2:Well, the doctor, it was a Salvadorian doctor, so you know, you know, she was just like. You know very she didn't. I feel like they never really gave me a diagnosis. They never said this is what you have like. She never said that, but she did say like um, in my teens she said hey, uh, they did an ultrasound. She said your eggs aren't dropping. That means they're not. They're not um maturing. She was like so, just fyi, you're probably never gonna have kids.
Speaker 2:And I was like I mean, in my teen years, do I want to have kids? No, when I, when Michael was like, do you want to marry me? I was like okay, but I'm never going to give you kids. Did we want, did we want kids at 18, 19? No. So we were like, yeah, high five, no kids, you know. And then, and I was. And so I was like okay, cool. And then I was like I'll focus on school. You know, make sure I get a career, I'll focus on that. And my mom was very much like because of her relationship with my dad. She said you have to get an education. A man can take many things away from you, but he can never take away your education. So make sure you have something under your belt. And I was like, okay, um, and so, like that was my focus. My focus was get a career be successful, don't worry about a family, like that was the furthest thing from my mind.
Speaker 2:And then, um, as I was getting my bachelor's, I started taking naps and I was like what is wrong with me? I don't take naps, what? And I had to turn in a paper and I couldn't, and I didn't even remember like I I was. I was like what is going on? And I was talking to my sister and I'm telling her all these things and I was like I'm sleepy, I'm forgetting everything, and she just looks at me and she goes are you pregnant? And I said no, that's not possible. Do you know me? Like no. And um, I had just gone to see my parents, um, earlier that week, and my mom had said you know when are you going to give us grandkids? And I was like, mom, you know? Like you know, I can't, like I don't know why you're asking. And then my dad said you better watch out, you're going to be like Sarah. And I laughed in his face Cause I was like that's so ridiculous. And I was already pregnant in your face.
Speaker 2:I was like dang it and so, um, having Isaac was like being pregnant was really, really nice. It was such a neat experience. And then, once he came around, once he came around, but you know, we had to have the conversation of like, what are we going to do about child care, you know? And we had to have the conversation of like, what are we going to do about child care? You know, and because my mom had a million jobs, we bounced from child care to child care, to child care and we were abused in many situations.
Speaker 2:And so finding child care was not an option, and at this point Micah had a stable job and the only thing that I had done was work at Panera or work at the university and, like the, the welcome center, and so the decision was obvious, but I didn't know what it meant to be a mom who does until they're a mom I know, but I didn't even have the example. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And it's not to shame her in any way, because she did everything that she could.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:But it was. It made me so sad. I felt like I was failing. Like it made me so sad. I felt like I was failing, Like and then, and then the postpartum hits, you know, and at the time we only I didn't experience it, but I do know that it happens.
Speaker 1:What did it make you with?
Speaker 2:Did it make you just just extra depressed, or yes, it was bad, Like because, okay, okay, like I said, I was terrified the first, probably week we came back home. Micah was home for, uh, I think he took a week or two, and so we were kind of adjusting, we were figuring things out. My mom had to leave because my grandparents were sick, so she left for the first month of his life and we didn't really have help. And so the moment that Micah went back to work, like I was terrified, I didn't know what, what, what to do.
Speaker 2:And um, I remember him crying and I remember thinking because I don't know if you've ever heard this phrase, but it's called embrasilados, where babies are so used to being held that you can't set them down ever. Does that make sense? And so I was so scared that my kid was going to do that that I didn't want to hold him. And I remember my sister coming over because she was still around, and so she came by and I was like I was like he's crying, but I don't want to hold him because I don't want him to think that I have to hold him all the time, you know, and she looked at me and she was like you better grab that baby. She was like he is not trying to manipulate you, like he's days old, what are you talking about? And I was like, wait, not trying to manipulate you, like he's days old, what are you talking about? And and I was like, wait, so this is so I'm supposed to grab him.
Speaker 1:I'm like you, like for me. I'm like that baby's not going to pull one over on me and my wife's like what are you talking about? Uh, probably somewhere in between. That's probably about. Uh, probably somewhere in between. That's probably uh, the right one.
Speaker 2:That, yeah, you hold the baby, um, but then the yeah, there's probably somewhere in between oh yeah, and so my sister was working as a parents, as teachers for like troubled people or whatever, and so she was like, let me sign you up, let me just sign you up, so. So for the first year of his life my sister was coming over teaching me about like milestones that he should be hitting, teaching me about things to look for. So anyway, so for the first year of his life my sister was getting paid to visit me once a month for an hour, I think. It was like an hour a week and it was so nice. And at the time I wasn't driving because I got into a wreck at 15, didn't have a license and it freaked me out and I did not want to drive, and so Is that a Salvadoran type thing?
Speaker 2:I hope not.
Speaker 1:My abuelita did not drive one day of her life. Oh once did she ever drive? I don't know if that's like was your mom like you? Better not ever drive after that, or?
Speaker 2:No, I put myself in a timeout for years.
Speaker 1:How long did the postpartum blues last?
Speaker 2:Oh, I feel like it lasted. It had to have lasted at least a year. Yeah. And not getting out of the house did not help.
Speaker 1:What would you ask God for?
Speaker 2:I don't think I did during that time, I think it was just, it was just survive, you know, and um, whenever he would nap, I would would watch tv, I would watch the news, I would watch something, and so when micah was starting to get like more regimented, um, and he said, hey, I think we should put the TV in the closet, I was livid.
Speaker 1:Why did he want to put the TV in the closet?
Speaker 2:Because we didn't need to, because it was like we should have the living room, should be a family room, we don't need a TV, like I think the pastor literally came one time and he said something like it's interesting how we put this TV in the middle of the family room, almost like an altar and so, and so Michael was kind of like I think we should put the TV in the closet, and I was like you realize, we live in Oklahoma and we have tornadoes. Like no, no, this is my window to the outside world, because I literally don't drive, like I need this for me, you know. But everything else, like everything else that he wanted to change, didn't necessarily affect me. Like he went out of his way to say like I'm not gonna eat this anymore, but you can, and when he would say that it would make me angry, and so it's like then that's what I'm gonna cook.
Speaker 1:Like what did he cut out? Just meat? Or did he cut out like cheese?
Speaker 2:dairy. He was trying to be vegan. When he, when he was like, oh, when he was like I'm not gonna eat cheese anymore, oh, I was. I was like not my cheese, not my cheese like. But again, I felt like I was being attacked, even though he would always clarify and say I promise, I'm not putting this on you, I'm just not going to eat cheese. And it was so upsetting.
Speaker 2:What else did he do? It was just a bunch of little stuff. And then so when our anniversary would come around, I would say he would say, he would say what do you want to do? And I'll say go to the movies. That's the only thing I want. Don't buy me anything, don't spend any money on me, like, like you know, I don't want flowers, none of that. Just go to the movies. I just want quality time in a movie theater. Because I knew it was gonna bug him.
Speaker 2:And looking back, I feel like I was so petty and I even went to. I even went to a therapist about this and she said have you ever tried to do these things? And I I said yeah and she said okay. So how come, whenever he suggests it, it bothers you. And that was very offensive. I stopped seeing her. No, I'm just kidding, but it was eye opening. It was like I was a little bit of a legalist at the beginning and he was like, okay, like I a legalist at the beginning. And he was like okay, like I'll be patient with you, let's go, let's do it, it's fine, we'll cut that out. Okay, we'll cut that out too. You know, I went through my I don't think we should go to the movies phase and he was like okay, you know, I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but when he did it it really bothered me. I don't know, I don't know what that was uh, no, it makes, that makes, does it?
Speaker 1:yeah, when someone tells like if you're gonna go do something and somebody tells you to do it, you kind of don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, it takes. It takes any dopamine away that you would get by doing it. Like if you're heading to wash the dishes and your husband's like, hey, can you get those dishes? You want to be like I was about to, but now I'm never going to touch them.
Speaker 2:It's just like Is that a Salvadorian thing?
Speaker 1:It's an ADHD thing, but I don't know. It's heavy for me. But it's about dopamine, like there's a reward reward but then when somebody asks you to do it, it takes away the reward that makes sense so you guys are keeping going, he's going a little bit more regimented and you are pushing back. What?
Speaker 2:happens. Um, there was just a lot of conflict. So Micah was making these changes, I was struggling with them. And then another thing that kind of popped up in the midst of all of this was um, because I'm 4'10" and I had an 8-pound baby, I was readjusting. Well, he's almost 8 pounds, like almost 2 ounces away. I was readjusting to how your body changes. Sure changes Sure.
Speaker 2:And I was not happy with what I looked like, like with Isaac. I got stretch marks, like just all the way up, you know, like I had stretch marks on my calves from the fluid that they pumped into me. It was really bad. So I was really struggling with my appearance and because of that I would push Micah away. And then, like I would, you, you know, I would reconsider and I would think you know why am I doing this? And so in the morning I would like suggest intimacy and he would say, oh, uh, not right now. And I was like not right now. Who says that? Who, what? And? And so that rejection I started to internalize. Sure.
Speaker 2:You know, and so then I would take care of things on my own, and then when he would come around, I would be like, well, now I'm not interested, you know, yeah, and so there was that going on, plus the conflict from the legalism, plus just being exhausted because you're sleep deprived, you're. You know all these things. You're adjusting to this, to this new edition, and, um, it was, it was rough, I would say, three years.
Speaker 1:It changes your life, yeah. And that's which part? Which part?
Speaker 2:having a kid, oh, but. But you know, we adjusted with him, we loved him.
Speaker 1:But still like. Your body is different. And all that comes from just like a new life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, keep going. So that started going on, and then, and that started going on, and then it finally got to a point where that pastor was asked to leave and I don't know if Micah mentioned this, but the day that he was asked to leave and it was announced, did he mention this? I don't think he did. There was an earthquake.
Speaker 1:No, he didn't mention that.
Speaker 2:It was wild. So Micah really really loved this guy Like, and he really this pastor meant. Well, he was very sweet, you know. He just was a little bit legalistic, which is fine, you know we're all on our own journeys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and um, and the way that this pastor was asked to go was just so shady, and when they announced it, there was like a literal earthquake. Oklahoma didn't really used to get earthquakes, I believe, until fracking, but you know, I don't think micah can confirm or deny any of that. But um, but yeah, it was, it was a big one and um. And then after that I feel like he started listening to other people. We were listening to these sermons that were so fire and brimstone, and now we have this kid and we're like, how are we going to raise? So then I was hopping on this train, right. I was like, all right, let's do this. And it was like, you know, they're not allowed to watch anything on tv. And I'm like, okay, you know, whatever, they're not allowed to listen to any music. Okay, they're only allowed to listen to beethoven, maybe, you know.
Speaker 2:And we started raising him like had to, like I literally cut out 10 commandments in blue paper because it had to be correct, like you know, because the tablets were blue and all this stuff. Did the Bible say they were blue? Yes, it was like some sort of stone and if you look at the stone they were blue or something anyway. So it was just, and he had to recite the 10 commandments before bed. And then I, but I was doing the thou shall not, you know, thou shall not kill, you know.
Speaker 2:And then michael was like, um, no, no, what was it? I don't know. If I was like you will not, you shouldn't, yeah, that shall not kill. And then Michael was like, no, if we're going to do this right, it has to be like the legit, like King James version. It was like a long and Isaac had to know these. He was a baby and he was like reciting these things and he would only watch like bible, bible, uh, like the hannah barbara, like bible movies, and he had those down and we would read his little red books every night, hannah barbara, like with with mochi oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I I mean the um, what is that? The little bible ones that they'll do like admission trips?
Speaker 1:the one with margo.
Speaker 2:No, no no, not with the characters. We didn't allow those, we didn't. Those are the bomb. No, it was like, oh, they're just like the little bible stories. Like it was just wild and like so the way Micah was raised.
Speaker 2:He wasn't allowed to have sugar until he was like four oh my and so with Isaac, like I would make him, I would we were so crunchy, which is good, but we were like he's only allowed these things and we would like start with vegetables and like, which is great again. But I feel like there was a little like we wouldn't let him try sugar, like we were like no, no, no, that's, that's okay. So we kind of kind of got on the same. So were you guys happy?
Speaker 2:Um um, you know how sometimes being being right makes you happy and so you feel like you're being right and so it kind of brings you like this sense of like yeah, there's like yeah, you get a little dopamine by being right yeah and so, uh, it was just good times, you know, um, but not too good at times, cause that could be bad, uh okay, I want to take a break.
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Speaker 1:Yeah so how many get back to the episode?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how many years did this go? I don't know.
Speaker 1:So I think Micah said that he found the death to life videos in 2016. So I guess that's when I hear Jonathan. I think 2016, 2017, okay, okay, well, so around there.
Speaker 2:So let's say, preaching like love, reality started in 2017. Okay, so let's say 2017. So Isaac was three and when Micah started listening to these things, I went shields up you're not about it no, I mean. So cover the baby's ears.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding, were you already pretty, then you had become pretty strict traditional somewhat.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, like, yeah, like I remember buying a cd from. We were at camp meeting and we bought the cd from a folk singer which love him, he's amazing, um, and I even felt like maybe that was wrong because he, because he played, because he was playing like the guitar and like shaking the little bells with his leg and something else, and I was like this is a little too wild for me and this is somebody that grew up listening to eminem and like I knew all the words and like all this stuff and and I just catapulted You're like I'm just Marshall Mathers, but then you can't listen to a guy with a no oh mercy.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 2:So then I noticed Micah started kind of like being a little bit more chill and it freaked me out. It would. And then like and he would say hey, I want you to listen to this and I would refuse.
Speaker 1:And this was like when it was Jonathan or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he had a little whiteboard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you were and refuse. You're just like. I don't want to make another turn, like we've turned so many times, or what was the no, it was.
Speaker 2:It was church school has trained me for this. When someone's preaching love, this is a sign. This is not right. Like you know what I mean. When someone's teaching unity, it's the end of days and and this is, like you know, like it was really like. When unity is the end of days, unity because when everybody's, when everybody's like it, yeah, it was like it freaked me out and so I went shields up, up like big time, and so what he would do he was just so patient with me what he would do is he would turn up the volume and so I would leave the room, I would be in the kitchen, I would be somewhere else and I would be listening, and then I was like that's wrong, that's wrong.
Speaker 1:What was the stuff that was wrong?
Speaker 2:Like it just seemed right. It just seemed like it was very once saved, always saved.
Speaker 1:Ooh, that's the scariest thing in the life of a super traditionalist.
Speaker 2:And it was like yeah, I just did not like it. I didn't like it.
Speaker 1:And the idea of not liking. What is the scary thing there?
Speaker 2:It was. You know what was scary. I thought that you know where it says like many will fall, many like, and it's just like I will not fall.
Speaker 1:I'm not falling for this kind of thing, falling for what Love.
Speaker 2:Falling for like I can do anything and I'm, and I'm still fine, like that. Just, that statement freaked me out because I'm like no statement freaked me out because I'm like no, no, that's not true, you know.
Speaker 1:And then you know you have the whole like ah, just yeah, I mean, okay, you're want to make sure that the behavior is correct. Yes, okay, I got you.
Speaker 2:And so I really struggled with that. And then you guys started doing Zoom calls I think yeah, and he would sit next to me and he would have it on, and I was in such an angry place because it's like you asked me to change all these things and now you're living this love, peace and hair grease kind of lifestyle, like what.
Speaker 1:You're like the TV's in the closet, bro. We're not coming back from this.
Speaker 2:You know, and so I would sit there and I would watch you guys and made me angry interesting. It was so like thinking about it now. It was so sad, like thinking about it now, it was so sad and I even said this to ame because ame was like the most joyous. It's too much. I said ame, I said I I genuinely thought that what you were saying you had was fake. I said, and I am so, so sorry, oh wow, like I I want to do it.
Speaker 2:I was like I am so so sorry, like I wanted to. I was like I am so so sorry and she's like, well, I'm so sorry that it bothered you. I was like no, no, no, you did nothing wrong, like absolutely nothing that's crazy, so you're watching it.
Speaker 1:You're angry at the. Whatever you think is not legit, keep going. What happened um I? So whatever you think is not legit, yes.
Speaker 2:Keep going. What happened? I got COVID, we got COVID and we almost died, and so it was bad. Yeah, we literally almost died, and I know I'm laughing, but we made it.
Speaker 1:So how did you go to the hospital?
Speaker 2:No so terrible. Oh, it was really bad. So Micah and I got COVID and we were in bed for like days and we got to the point where we were so far gone that we stopped eating.
Speaker 1:Mercy.
Speaker 2:And we didn't even have the desire to eat. And we didn't even have the desire to eat and so we thought this is great, Our body wants to fast. And my mom called. This was after days of fasting. My mom called and she said hey, what are you doing? And I said we're laying in bed. You know, just no energy. My lungs hurt Like my ribs hurt from coughing.
Speaker 2:The kids were here and Micah just kind of just laid there like he couldn't walk from the bedroom to the kitchen without like having to rest. And my mom called. She noticed something was up and then she said what did you guys eat today? And I said nothing, we're fasting. And she said well, what did you guys eat today? And I said nothing, we're fasting. And she said well, what did you eat yesterday?
Speaker 2:I said nothing because we've been fasting and like I'm super peaceful and again, my mom has done end-of-life care for many years. And she said get up and go get something to eat. And I was like mom, it's okay, this is what our body wants. And so she yelled at me and she was like get up right now, Go find something to eat. And so I look over at Micah and his lips are white. That's not good. His lips are white. That's not good, and I feel like it.
Speaker 2:Had my mom not yelled at me in that moment, I wouldn't have woken up, because I was literally like in a daze. And so I got up, I peeled one apple, chopped it up, took all my energy to do this, put a scoop of peanut butter, brought it and I said my mom said we need to eat and he looked at me and I was like let's eat. And it took everything for us to eat an apple. We didn't have any energy and so we realized things were serious, because Micah's lips were completely white and I had more energy than he did, and so we sent our kids away with some friends for a few days. My mom came over, she dropped off an oximeter and a blood pressure cuff and all these things, and I took his oxygen and he was at 86 is that bad, that's really bad.
Speaker 2:so I called our doc, our primary. I talked to a friend of mine who's a pharmacist and she said your doctor should have started you on steroids. She should have done this, she should have done that. And I was like, okay, let me call her. I called the doctor and they said I said his oxygen is this, his blood pressure is this. And she said you just need to drop them off at the emergency room and hopefully you see him later. Oh my.
Speaker 2:And I said there's nothing you can give me, like you can't start me on this, on that or whatever. And she said I'm so sorry, and this really bothered me. She said my hands are tied. The only thing you can do is drop them off at the emergency room. And I was so angry so I called my Salvadorian doctor and I said hey, we have COVID. My husband's oxygen is this.
Speaker 2:This was on the weekend, because she was friends with my mom. She said okay, uh, it's sunday. She was like this place is closed. We need to put him on on an oxygen machine. Um, she was like I need you to take his oxygen and his blood pressure every hour. She was like I'll hold it on my card, you just need to send somebody to pick it up. And I was like, okay, and so we got him the oxygen machine. I mean, she literally saved his life. Oh, wow, we got him on the oxygen machine and then for the next two days, like we were literally like holding hands, singing hymns and just like loving god, if that makes sense. Sure, because we realized how close we were, more so him than me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it was like a huge wake-up call. Wow.
Speaker 2:And then, once we got better, like it took Micah a long time to regain his strength To see a guy that loves playing basketball, does all these things, is very active, struggle with an oxygen machine to walk out of the house and walk down the sidewalk and walk back and then just have to call it a night, like it was. It was awful, um, and it really gives you like ptsd and from that moment, like I got really agoraphobic, my anxiety was like through the roof. I didn't want to be outside of my home and visiting churches like, for example, we would visit Wes's church it was terrifying. I would cry all the way there and all the way back because we had to take the highway what about and was it about the highway that just because the car's going faster, yeah, every, just like everything.
Speaker 2:it just felt so unsafe. It just felt like certain doom was just lurking. It was so weird and he would be like why can't you, why don't you guys move your membership and come over here and I'm like the highway.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, it was literally that. And I remember one day, like it was so bad, I told my doctor and it's the same doctor, I kept her and I said like I'm really struggling with this, like I don't even want to leave my house, and she said you need to see us. I'll have you, I'll schedule you some time with this therapist that they have in office. And so I went to see her and I told her like what was going on and she said I was like I don't like putting chemicals in my body, yada, yada, yada.
Speaker 2:And she said you should probably try edibles just so you could calm down yeah, she was like you can get your medical, your medical card, and like, the younger me was like, but the older me was like terrified, and so, um, yeah, after that I said, well, let me think about it. And somebody gave me an edible after that and I sat down with my kids and I enjoyed them.
Speaker 1:After the edible you were, it actually relaxed you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like I was able to see them in without all of the noise and I really like I wanted it. I wanted that moment of spending time with them and listening to their stories to like never end, and so I made an appointment to get my medical card. And yeah, I made an appointment and then I thought like I prayed about it and I just didn't know what to do, you know?
Speaker 2:And and I thought, well, let me just check one more thing. So I went and got my hormones checked and when they checked my hormones, my vitamin D level was so low. I was like this is why you're so sad. And then the lady was like, so are you having a lot of anxiety? And I said yeah. She said, well, your iron's super low too, so your body's basically in survival mode because you don't have vitamin D, you don't have iron D, you don't have iron and all these things, and you're not sleeping well because you need progesterone and da-da-da-da-da. And I was like what? So it was because my body just wasn't, didn't have what it needed. Those were the, those were like the alarms that were going off for me every day, and so when I started taking my vitamins and like making a point of it, I slept through the night and I wasn't just this ball of anxiety and I never picked up my card. Just this ball of anxiety and I never picked up my card.
Speaker 1:So then, after that, you were more open to spiritual things, differently than you had heard before.
Speaker 2:So right before I did the, the hormone check, we were driving home from Wes's church and I was crying and Michael was over at me and he was like you need to get it together. Like you cannot live like this. I think he was fed up, and this is as fed up as he gets. He was just like you cannot live like this. This is not living, you know. And so in that moment I said god, like because I'd been listening, I was like I know that this isn't for me. I need you to take this now, because I know that this isn't for me, this is not what you want for me. And for like a split second I had this peace, just enough to make it home. And then it started again. Like the thoughts started flooding back in, and so I was like okay, that's what it was for me, like that made it real for me. And so I started listening with open ears whenever Micah would get on. Jump on, instead of trying to find the flaws of everybody else.
Speaker 1:So when you opened up, what were you hearing?
Speaker 2:I mean, I was listening to people's testimonies, I would, my God, would be like, oh, this guy's about to get free, this guy's about to get free, this guy's about to get free. And then you'd be like, let's open the book to Romans. And so then I would pull out my Bible and be like, let's you know. And. And it was just, it was there, you know.
Speaker 2:And I think that I started to believe it for other people first, before I could fully accept it for myself. Does that make sense? For sure it does. I could fully accept it for myself. Does that make sense? For sure it does. And and then, when I realized, like salvation wasn't this roller coaster, and like, if I make a mistake, like it's okay, god still loves me, because I I grew up, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I'm trying to think like I met my dad when I was 17. And he was not a good example of love, of love Like one time, just to give you an example because he couldn't control me, he killed my pet in front of me and then he looked at me and he said look at what you did, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:And so to truly wrap my head around this unconditional love was really hard. But, I feel like it allowed me to love people so much better.
Speaker 1:How did you wrap your mind around the fact that you were unconditionally loved? What was it that you were like? Oh, this is true, I am loved.
Speaker 2:I think that it was a little bit of everything. It was a little bit of everything, so I would read Romans and I would like.
Speaker 1:Were you looking for a verse right now, when you said let me find something? Yes, was it Romans 5.8?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh it froze. Yeah, because I can't even show you. It said. Yeah, it says. But God shows his love for us and that, while we were still sinners, christ died for us and therefore we have now been justified by his blood. It says, by the death of his son, much more. Now we are reconciled. Shall we be saved by his life and I think I just I don't know.
Speaker 1:No, that's, that's where it's at.
Speaker 2:That's the verse I go to nonstop. And then I thought I kind of thought that if I had to go back to it, it was almost like. It was almost like I felt ashamed that I had to go back to it To read it again.
Speaker 1:Why would that make you feel ashamed?
Speaker 2:Because it felt like I know this to be true. Why do I have to come back to it? You know.
Speaker 2:I mean we ought to go back to it every day, and I know I mean we ought to go back to it every day, and I know, but it just seems like like, why do you have to keep coming back to this when life gets hard? Like why do you have to keep coming back to this when life gets hard? And I think that, and I think that you're right, you know, I think that's what it's there for, so that you can come back to it when life gets hard. And so when I realized, like God could take, god can take and he will take all of these things that are burdening you, away, like when, that, when, when I started seeing things like sloughing off, like when, when I stopped and I didn't even mention this, but when I stopped watching pornography and I didn't even want to, like, I didn't even want to want to watch it anymore, it wasn't anymore, it wasn't, it wasn't like, uh, it wasn't like oh, let me just try. Or oh, I'm really tempted, let me just. Oh, I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2:It was literally like the desire left I wanted to tell everybody. So when people were sad like I, was probably like I, so then I started kind of, you know, but when people were sad, I would pray with them. I still do, like, if people are sad, like I will pray with you and I will remind you that he will keep the imperfect peace whose mind has stayed on thee. Like you know, I was just like he can do this, like it is so real, and I want to tell you, and I want to tell you and I want to tell you. And then I feel like people start getting freaked out.
Speaker 1:That's like my story it changes our lives and then we just can't.
Speaker 2:You can't keep it to yourself.
Speaker 1:No, you can't.
Speaker 2:And I remember my mom came over one day and I was like mom, like here's this thing and and your salvation, like you just have to accept the Lord Jesus as your, you know, as Jesus as your Lord and savior, you know, and all this stuff and and things would just fall into place and and he's doing all these things and and you're free, free. And my mom looked at me and she was like she had this smile on her face and she said you've experienced liberacion. And I said you knew about this. And she said yeah, and it was just. She was so happy. Oh.
Speaker 2:And so then, yeah, I just I wanted to tell everybody and I even took my sister to Nebraska and she wasn't even my intended target. My intended target was my niece and I took my sister and she was aware of some backlash, you know, because if you don't get it, get it like. It does sound scary. Hmm. If you like, it can sound like once saved, always saved. If you hear a snippet, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It kind of has to Like if you're not preaching it. If you're really preaching it, it has to sound too good to be true.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It has to sound Because in many ways it's borderline fairytale what God has done in saving us. So if it doesn't sound that good, then we're not preaching it straight. When you preach it straight, it makes legalistic people nervous.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you took her. What did she think?
Speaker 2:She came back to our room one evening. It was just her and I and she had tears in her eyes and she said, diana, she was like these people have the Holy Spirit. She was like, and people have the Holy Spirit. She was like, and I don't understand how people can be so mean to them. Like she was just kind of like I haven't had a bad experience with a single one of these a single person here Like they just love the Lord. How can it possibly be? Hmm.
Speaker 1:That makes me sad. I'm sorry. No, like I don't even know. It just makes me sad. I'm sorry. No, like I don't even know. It just makes me not for me, but for people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This was last year for the fourth.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, this is after we were down there at your church.
Speaker 2:Yes, I wasn't ready at that point, you know.
Speaker 1:You were still wrestling with some stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, maybe just a little bit.
Speaker 1:Where do you feel like it all settled or what you understand about it now?
Speaker 2:So my understanding about it now is that I'm a new creation. I feel like there's, I feel like there's so much I want to say and I just don't know how to say it. You know what I mean like, but there's something I feel like he has saved me from addiction. He has saved me, I would even say, that anxiety can be an addiction.
Speaker 1:Hmm, and the only thing he asked for was my heart just wanted you to believe him yeah, he's just like.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you this, but you don't want to believe me and instead you're wanting to live in this turmoil, in this mouse wheel, and that's not what it's about. And as soon as you figure that out, as soon as you figure it out that your mistakes aren't what defines you and all these things, those things don't matter like you'll be able to love people on a completely different level. Does that make sense? Yeah, because I feel like there are people that I've met since then that I feel like I would have judged. Hmm.
Speaker 2:Because they were doing something that I either did or something that I don't understand.
Speaker 1:And now it's just like let me just introduce you to jesus so if we, um, if we go back and we meet up with I don't know junior year diana, 13 year old diana, diana, 13-year-old Diana, struggling, what would you say to her?
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought about this. I don't think I know. I don't think I know what I would say. I mean, I'd probably say, if I was 13, 14, I'd probably say things are about to get really, really bad. But, but you're not alone and and you're gonna come out of it and you're gonna realize how much God has been there, even though some things were really bad. Amen.
Speaker 1:I love your heart, your passion for the gospel. I love that it took you a while. I think that's amazing too, and you and Micah have been blessings to me and I'm sure you're blessings to those people that you do life with there in Oklahoma. So thank you so much for sharing your heart and blessing us with your testimony. Thank you Absolutely.