Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#241 Shannon: Healing, Identity, And The God Who Is Good
We follow Shannon from a fearful, unstable childhood into years of illness, allergy, and anxiety, and then into a grounded life of identity, trust, and practical freedom. Scripture, confession, and a new view of God’s goodness move her from control to peace, from scarcity to sufficiency.
• childhood turmoil, early faith, and fear shaped by trauma
• murder of her mother, adoption by grandparents, perfectionism
• years of illness: anaphylaxis, dysautonomia, vertigo, insomnia
• food controls life, hoarding mindset, isolation and doubt
• counseling, forgiveness, and letting go of judgment
• reopening the Bible: promises, identity, righteousness
• authority in Christ, armor of God, speaking scripture
• “Olive Garden moment”: acting free while feeling afraid
• healing as part of salvation, enemy has no authority
• adoption wrestle reframed as trust, not punishment
• practical steps: prayer, anointing, community, persistence
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
SPEAKER_02:And I just got to the place where I was just depressed. And I was like, you know, I just wish this was terminal. Like, how am I gonna how am I gonna live the next 30 or 40 years like this? You know, I don't I don't want to live the next 30 or 40 years like this. I was like, why couldn't I just have cancer or something terminal? Right, something I knew that that had an end um insight. And that was a pretty bad place to be.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, welcome to the Death to Life Podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's guest is Shannon Minnick, and Shannon has been a part of our community for a long time, and we've been waiting to get her story, and some stuff had to happen. Some stuff had to happen uh for her to be able to tell her story, and uh man, God is so gracious, he's so wonderful. Um, this story will bless you to see the journey that she's been on, to see what God has done, uh, will certainly encourage you and edify you. So this is uh Shannon buckle up, strap in, love y'all, appreciate y'all. All right, we've uh I've I feel like I say this every episode, but it's it's true for this episode. We've been waiting for this one, and uh I think the the first time I texted you about being on the podcast was I don't know, maybe two or three years ago. I time flies.
SPEAKER_02:Year and a half, two years at least, yep.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, and then I saw you in uh in Denver a few weeks ago, and I uh I guilt tripped you. I don't know what it was. Uh some it was just a perfect time, and so we're here today. Uh Shannon, what is going on? How do you feel? Are you excited? I am beyond the podcast. You're excited.
SPEAKER_02:I am excited. I got I got some things that got done in my life, and I can't wait to tell you about it.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. So well, you you lead the way. Where where are you where are we starting the story? Where does the Shannon story start?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I am gonna start at the beginning. Uh that's a very good thing. I feel like that background is important.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:So um yeah, I'm just gonna go through a few things that happened uh when I was when I was young.
SPEAKER_00:Where you where where'd you grow up, Shannon?
SPEAKER_02:Um a little bit everywhere, but mostly Arizona and Colorado, kind of out on the out towards the the west. So um, yeah, but I moved around a lot as a kid. So and you'll hear why.
SPEAKER_04:Tell me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, when I was uh when I was about two, my dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and my parents divorced about that time. So I moved in with my grandparents on my mom's side, and um, I'll be honest with you, that was like the best thing that ever happened to me. You know how they say that the what happens in kids' lives when they're little, like you know, before the age of three, sets the foundation. Like that's totally true in my life. Um my grandma was my rock. She introduced me to God, she was my mom, she took care of me, loved me unconditionally. It like just was this this beautiful time in my life where I had everything that I needed. And I cherished that. And she was always kind of throughout throughout the things that I'm about to tell you about, um, she was always kind of that home base for me. So that was some good stuff. Um, but when I was about five, my mom got remarried and she came and got my brother and I to live with her and her new husband, and then we moved to Colorado. And my mom had a rough time of things. She struggled with alcohol, she struggled with drug abuse. Um, so uh we were the family that had marijuana growing in our garden and in our house plants. Uh, I got a picture of my brother and I when we were, I don't know, I was like nine, ten years old, were opening our Christmas presents. You know, you're thinking like, this should be Norman Rockwell. No, big huge marijuana plant in the background in the photo. Like this, this was this was how we lived. Kind of chaotic.
SPEAKER_00:Did I miss something? Is this like who was the the marijuana grower?
SPEAKER_02:I I don't know. I was a kid, I was eight, but it was in our home. I mean, it had to have been one of my one of my parental figures. Like, I don't know. It wasn't like we had like grow lights in the farm, you know, it was just like personal use kinds of stuff. I remember sitting at the kitchen table when I was eight years old and somebody showed me how to roll a joint. I mean, like, that's that was just that was just home life.
SPEAKER_00:Um so this wasn't like an immor immoral thing or anything. This was just like this is a this is a cool plant that helps us relax.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I didn't really think about it that much because I didn't really know. I didn't, you know, I was a kid, I didn't know. I remember the cops showing up one time, you know, searching around the place. And that was that was the time when they're like, I just remember all the plants got pulled up and hung for dry. Like, I just remember these bits and pieces um of that. Um and of course I'm remembering from a kid's perspective. So I'm sure if you asked an adult at the time, it would be a completely different perspective. But like these are the pieces that I remember. Um, I think through all of that, there was a lot of turmoil. Um, I don't want to get, I don't want to tell somebody else's story, you know. That's part of like my journey is like, I don't want to tell somebody else's story, but uh but you know how when people get drunk, um some people are funny, some people are like silly and they're funny drunks, and they're funny. My mom was not that. She was an angry drunk and never at me. It was never directed at me, I was never in danger. Um, but I think the thing that was the biggest miss for me as a kid growing up is I literally only remember my mom hugging me one time. And it stands out in my mind. Like we were sitting at the campfire, we had a little um fort and bonfire, we lived on a farm, so we had lots of land, and she scooped me up under her lap and held me on her in her on her lap as we sat around the campfire. And like that's literally the only time I ever remember my mom hugging me or holding me in my life. So, like you can see like the hole that that that that would leave.
SPEAKER_04:For sure.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I thank God that during this time I was never tempted. I never wanted to smoke a junk, I never wanted to drink alcohol. In fact, it was the opposite effect of on me that I saw what it did to the people around me. And I was like, I want nothing to do with that. I don't want my life to look like that when I grow up. So, like it did the opposite for me, and I was like, I'm staying away from that forever. Um I, in the middle of all of this, I gave my life to Jesus when I was eight. And during this time of my life, I would go and spend the summers with my grandmother, and which again that saving grace in my life, where she would take me to church and read, you know, read Bible magazines to me, little kid magazines, and you know, teach me about Jesus. And it's funny because I didn't know anything about him, like from a biblical perspective. Like I didn't know all the rules or all the verses, I couldn't quote you anything. All I knew was there was this Jesus that I loved. And I wanted, I wanted to be part, I wanted him to be a part of my life. So I was eight years old in the middle of this chaos, and I'm like, Jesus, I want you. Like I want you in my life. And so he became my rock. Like as I go through the next um phases of my life, like um, Jesus became my foundation that I just clung to through every bit of chaos that I was about to go through. And it was funny because my parents clearly didn't go to church, but any friend that I met, like Catholic, you know, Methodist, Lutheran, Adventist, that didn't care who I didn't care who they were, I'm like, I'll go to church. Yeah, you'll take me to church, I'll go. So I like any chance I got, I would go to church with my friends. Um, so that's just a message to you. There might be someone in your life that's just waiting for an invitation that wants to go. Um but uh when I was when I was nine, um, I wanted to watch this movie. It was like a Saturday night or something. I wanted to watch this movie, and it was it was some, I don't even remember what it was. I remember I had Cheryl Aladdin and it was some lifetime trouble, probably terrible drama that was way too close to home, right? And my mom was like, No way, you're not watching that. And like, oh, this is another movie on. So I want to watch that. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask my mom if I can watch this. So I literally prayed that God would have my mom let me watch this movie.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think back and I'm like, why did I ever do this?
SPEAKER_02:But I was a kid, right? Um, and she did. And I watched this movie and it was called The Exorcist. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I knew it was gonna be The Exorcist, right? When you said that I knew it was gonna be the Exorcist.
SPEAKER_02:It is the Exorcist. I don't know if you've ever seen it. I hope that you haven't.
SPEAKER_00:Um I've never I've I've like for those stuff, like I don't, it's not even a thing. I'm afraid of that movie, so it's not like I'll watch, like I'll watch anything, but if it has like Satan as in like this, like starring above the like I'm not interested.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. Well, I was a kid, I didn't know any better. And my mom didn't believe, like she didn't believe any, she didn't believe in God, she didn't believe in Satan, she just thought it was funny. Like she's like, Oh, this is funny, this is comical, it's totally fake, right? That was her stance. Um, so that's why I'm sure that's why she was like, sure, we'll go ahead and watch it, because it's just like you know, watching a cartoon kind of thing. Like that was and I know she'd seen it because she told me she had seen it. So I'm like, why would you let your nine-year-old watch something like that?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know, but you know, why would she do anything she did in her life, right?
SPEAKER_02:So, so uh not we don't always make the best decisions, but anyway, this um this movie, I believe was uh an impetus for literally um demonic fear to attach to me and oppress me for years. Um I had nightmares for at least two years. I would get in bed at night, terrified to go to sleep, right? Because surely this devil was gonna possess me in my sleep. I don't know. And so I would surround myself with stuffed animals. My grandmother had given me a cassette tape uh of the heritage singers. So I would put this in my cassette clear next to me on my bed. I'd turn it on, I would go to sleep listening to the heritage singers, just praying to God, just begging him, like, don't leave me, don't let anything bad happen to me, like just protect me and the light. And that's what I did like literally every night for at least two years. Like I just lived in this heart, horrible fear that this was gonna happen to me one day. Um, and for those that don't know what the exorcist is, it's a movie about a teenager who becomes possessed by the devil. And the whole, the whole movie is about her, you know, bringing in the Catholic priest, her mom bringing in the Catholic priest, and all these things trying to exercise this demon.
SPEAKER_00:Does it have a happy ending?
SPEAKER_02:I don't even remember the ending. I think so, I think so. But I know there's a second, like a sequel that of course I've never seen, but um I don't know if it comes back or what I don't know. But uh I I'm pretty sure, but honestly, I don't remember that. All I remember the really bad parts. Um, and thankfully God's wiped some of it from my mind and praise the Lord. But needless to say, like for the rest of my life, I like you say, you're afraid of afraid of the movie. Like for the rest of my life, I was afraid. Um, not for the rest of my life. I'm not afraid anymore because I know that the devil has no power, but um like that was a huge, a huge component of fear um throughout the rest of um you know my my days as a kid and as a teenager and a young adult. So anyway, so that kind of sets the tone for some of the fear. Um when I was 10, my mother, my mother was brutally murdered. And my life was literally ripped out from under me. I mean, we had not that my life was great, right? But like everything gone. Like we were moved, my brother and I were moved to Arizona just within, I don't know, it seems like it was really fast, like a week or something. Um and like everything changed. Like, I'm like, I know nothing now. Um and we ended up living with my dad and my stepmom. I think they hadn't been married um that long at that time. So, and I my mom and my dad didn't really talk that much. Um, they were really quite estranged, and I didn't know my dad. Like I had spent a few visits with him, like going places here and there, but I know maybe we meet up at the zoo once in a while, but I really spent almost no time with him growing up, which is quite sad because um I have relatives that tell me he was just an amazing person, just this sweet, loving Christian man. Um so I I'm sad that I don't I did I didn't get to know him better. Um, but I did live with him for this uh this short period of time, and you're gonna chuckle at this. So his wife, who was his wife now, um, turns out that she was an ex-Satanist.
SPEAKER_01:So this like doesn't help, right, with my fear that has been.
SPEAKER_00:She was an ex-Satanist, so she was like, it's not, it's not the move, or was she like, uh, I don't like it anymore, but I still kind of believe in these things.
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean, from on the surface at least, um, she had become a Christian, she started going to church. In fact, while I was living with them during this one year, um, we all like she and my dad and me all got baptized um together. So, like there was at least from what I could tell, there was a conversion, um, at least to start. Um, but so she had three kids. She had a two-year-old, a three-year-old, and a five-year-old. And I was rooming, I was sharing a room with the five-year-old. And I I don't know why she told us this stuff, but she's like, Yeah, my daughter, my oldest daughter, like I got pregnant with her when I was part of the Satanist church, and like she was supposed to be the son of Satan. Like, she was told that this child was supposed to be the son of Satan. So here I am having this huge fear from this movie, right?
SPEAKER_01:And I'm rooming with this child. She was a girl, so certainly not the son of Satan, but I'm like, I'm rooming this with this child who was supposed to be the spawn of the devil. And I'm like, oh, could this get any worse? Like, could this be any more fear-inducing?
SPEAKER_02:Um, so this was kind of a scary time. Um, just trying to figure out what to interject here. So one thing that happened here that was, I don't know how important this is, but I literally broke my face during this time.
SPEAKER_00:Broke your face.
SPEAKER_02:Broke my face. I was sitting uh on the football field eating lunch with my friends. And you know how guys like throw long and catch football and they run, but they're almost like here, but they're looking this way, you know, they're not watching where they're going when they're running. He didn't see us, and literally right with his knee, right into my face.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02:That was one of those times where you know, you like, oh, this hurts, but I'll shake it off. Like the pain will go away in a minute, right? So we're just sitting there and we're chatting, and my friend's like, um, I think we need to take you to the nurse.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's getting purple.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm like, okay, sure. So they're walking me over to the nurse. I'm probably in shock by now, right? Like I'm probably my body's probably just like not even feeling it. And uh I remember we walk into the nurse's office, and you know those uh those paper towel holders that are silver, and so they're they're kind of mirror-like. I remember walking by it and looking, and I was like, oh my gosh, like my face was like huge, but like indented here where my cheekbone had been like crushed in. Oh my gosh. So that was a very traumatic, traumatic like um moment during that time that we were um that I was there. Um we we didn't live there, this was in Arizona, we didn't live there very long. And then um we moved to California.
SPEAKER_00:Before we get to California, yeah, whatever you lost. How how old were you when you like broke your face? Like 12, 13 or 11. So after your mom passes, were you like how long were you wrestling with all of that, did it seem like? Or or was it just a like, oh this is a sad thing, and or was it like a I don't even remember.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I think I just literally just blocked it all out. I think I stayed in like the shock stage of grief for a really long time. It was like, and I don't know, for anybody who's lost a loved one, especially as a child, like there were even times as a kid when I was like, I wonder if my mom's really still alive. I wonder if they just lied to me. Like she's still she's still alive and one day she's gonna come back. Like, you know, these these things that you go through in your head as a kid, just because you don't really understand what's happening, right? And so I don't even I never even dealt with it, not even until I was older. I was told that I never cried at the funeral. Um, yeah, it would just, I just don't even think I processed it at all.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And it and that actually became um that fact that I had never processed it actually became kind of a a wall in my life. I think, you know, I kind of I kind of shoved this wall up that said, okay, I'm not gonna feel. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna feel pain. Um, and it started, I didn't know it at the time, but it started this um need for perfectionism to try to do everything perfect and to try to protect myself from pain.
SPEAKER_00:Was vulnerability a hard thing for you then after that, like being vulnerable with something opening up or or intimate with someone like actually sharing something deep from yourself?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, probably. I mean, again, I'm 11, so I mean, how vulnerable are 11-year-olds really? But um, I think, yeah, probably with anybody other than my grandmother, uh, yeah, probably I wasn't very uh honest. And in fact, um, as I got into my teen years, um, the fear was so intense that I really didn't speak to people very much. My my husband tells me a story, and I'll I'll back up and tell you the rest of the story later. But um, my husband tells me about when we met, and I actually don't even remember when we met. We were probably like 13, 14 years old. And his mom and my grandma went to the same church, oddly enough. And um, he tells me the story that he walked up to me in church and said hello. He's like, hi. Um, and he's like, I smiled at him and like turned around and walked away. In his mind, he's like, dang, I lost my touch, you know, like she didn't even say hello. In my mind, I don't remember this, but I know what I went through in that time period. And in my mind, I'm probably oh my gosh, someone just spoke to me. This is terrifying. Like, I can't, I don't even know what to say. And so I just walked away. I mean, sure, I'm sure people thought I was just this stuck up, horrible person in feeling.
SPEAKER_00:But you were scared, kid, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for me, I'm just living in this nightmare of fear that I'm gonna be rejected or that I'm gonna lose what little I have left in my life, right? So I'm like clinging to everything, trying to control everything, and just afraid of everything.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. So, what part of California did you move to?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, Southern California. Oh, Riverside, that's where we were. Oh, yeah. Riverside.
SPEAKER_00:That's where my folks met.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, really? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:If you know you know.
SPEAKER_02:So we moved to California, and honestly, I don't think we were there but a few months. Um, my dad ended up back in the hospital for his third brain surgery. Uh if you recall, he was diagnosed when I was little. So he's still, of course, biting this on this brain cancer. Um, so he went in for his third brain surgery, and I honestly don't remember seeing him at all the whole time we lived in California. I think he was probably in the hospital the whole time or most of that time. Um, so I'm an 11-year-old. I'm tasked with taking care of three little children, and I have no clue what I'm doing, right? I have a two-year-old, three-year-old, and five-year-old stepsisters, and I'm like cooking them dinner and watching them and babysitting, and I'm completely inept at this. Like, I don't know about how to do this, right?
SPEAKER_00:But you're growing up fast.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I remember, so one thing I didn't tell you um about my stepmom is that not only was she a sec an ex-satanist, but she kind of, from what I remember being told, at least she had a history of like drugs and solicitation. So here we are in California, uh separated from you know, people we know really. And I I see men coming and going from our house. And I'm like, oh, I I don't know who these people are. And of course I'm a leather, you know, pretty innocent at the time. Well, sort of. Um, and uh apparently a neighbor reported our family, suspicious activity to the officials. And uh my other set of grandparents, somebody called my other set of grandparents and so my dad's parents, and and told them what was going on. They're like, this isn't a good environment for kids, you need to come get the kids. So um I don't, I think pretty quickly they came and they got my brother and I and they took us to live with them. So we're extracted from this uh less than ideal situation and taken to their house. Um, first of all, I thank God um because I don't even want to think about the things that could have been um in some of the environments that I have been had been in up at this point.
SPEAKER_00:Mercy.
SPEAKER_02:But um God is good. And uh and I know not everybody's not everybody's stories are the same, you know, are that um are that good, but I am thankful that God protected me through the things that could have could have happened to me, you know, during those times. Um but now here I am. I'm in a home. I don't know these people. Like I've met them a few times in my life, but I've never spent any time with them. So I'm coming from these home environments that essentially had very little rules, right? Like I I was free to roam. Like when I was when I was living with my mom on the farm, like I was free to roam. I went and rode my pony and did my thing. And no, nobody, nobody was I mean, she made sure we were safe, but like nobody was really saying, here are the rules. And and of course, in this other chaos situation, there were no rules. So then I get moved into this situation where I'm 11 years old, and at 11, you should know the rules, like you should know what's right now, right? You know, you should, and so there's this expectation that why aren't you like doing these things?
SPEAKER_01:Why aren't you following these rules? I'm like, I don't know what these rules are, like you're gonna have to tell me.
SPEAKER_02:So it was really this again, just this intense fear of I am now in an environment that is completely unfamiliar to me, yet yet another um situation where I've been where I've lost everything. Not that it was, again, not that it was all all that to lose, but um just you know, just one after another of just nothing, nothing, nothing. And I'm literally at this point, like, God is this pillar, this rock that I'm just clinging to, right? Because nothing else is stable, everything else is like just shifting sand. And so I'm just clinging to God, just like, okay, you are my one stable piece in my life, that of my grandmother, who was always there. Um, so as you can imagine, fear um continued to grow um and be a ever-present um yeah, ever-present thing in my life. Um my dad, they uh once my dad was released from the hospital, he came to live with us, but it was only for uh I'd say a few weeks or maybe months uh when he passed. Um so I mean that was that was it. Um I my pa my grandparents adopted me when I was 12. Um, so this is kind of important as I go through the rest of the story, just read out of this context that oh sorry, I'm gonna drink that um my grandparents adopted me, and then so my aunts and uncles now become my brothers and sisters.
SPEAKER_00:How much older were were were they?
SPEAKER_02:Their youngest child is six years older than me, and their oldest child was older than my dad. Um, so she was, I mean, she's like maybe 25, 30 years older than me. So there's a s there's a span.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um so if you hear me talking about my sister, I have one biological brother, but if you hear me talking about my sister, which I probably won't, but if I do, if it comes up, I'm talking about my aunt that's now my sister. And if I talk about my mom in like the early years, I'm talking about my bio mom. But if I'm talking about my mom, yeah, I'm talking about my grandma.
SPEAKER_01:So that's helpful context to know if I say, Oh, I took my mom here, like, uh, how'd you do that? You know, she died.
SPEAKER_02:So good, good com good context to have. So um, I mean, that's that's the backstory. And I tell all of that because it's I think it's important to understand the context of fear and the context of um just instability, um, and the need to control, the need to protect, like all of these walls and all these things I had that I had built to just get myself through um the rest of my childhood. So I'm adopted and and you know, things are kind of they kind of kind of settled out. Um, but like understandably slow my teenage and young, early young adult years were riddled with like depression, fear, anxiety, just just this despair, just kind of this ever-present. I already told you about being afraid of people and not speaking much. So um, yeah, that's kind of that's a backstory.
SPEAKER_00:It's intense. What's that? It's intense, yeah. It's like that that foundation is huge. I think um I I don't think there's when we when we understand all this, there's not a lot of mysteries why we reacted to things a certain way. In many ways, I think it would be stranger if we didn't react the way we did in light of everything that's happened. And sometimes we're like, I wonder why this is happening. Well, because of what is all that has happened, like it it makes it makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. Um, thankfully, um, my grandmother, that wonderful woman that she was, um, she sent me some money like right after college, and she's like, I want you to use this for counseling because I know how any money, right? I I didn't have so um again as my mom's mom that I was with when I was little, right? Um, she sent me some money um for counseling. She's like, go. And so I spent some time with some really good counselors there in the like early 20s who really helped me grieve, helped me kind of work through because really I got into this place in my life after college where I was, I felt like I thought I was controlling things, right? I was trying to um, I was a perfectionist. I was trying to control everything in my life, but I felt controlled. It was affecting who I dated, it was a it was just affecting everything in my life. And I'm like, I'm I feel controlled, I feel embondage, so I need some help. And so um one counselor early on was really instrumental in helping me grieve um just the losses that I have had in my life that I had just never grieved. Like my sister, she would tell me that uh, I mean, I never cried over my mom that I can remember. And I would I would tell about it with a straight face, no emotion whatsoever. But my sister said that I would cry in my sleep. So, you know, it was coming out. Um, and so this counselor really helped a great deal um with that. And then a little later in my young adult years, I saw another counselor and she really helps you with forgiveness. Like she's like, Yes, you know, this person's sin was that they did X and Y to you and this, but your sin is that you're judging them. And I mean, like, she was so blunt and so willing, and that's the kind of person I'm in. I'm like, I'm not great with metaphors, just be blunt, like just tell me like this so that I don't have to wonder what you're saying, you know. So she's like, you know, you're judging them, and that's your call to forgive. And so both of those um pieces were super important um for me and just kind of getting through that and and releasing some of that control that I was trying to have on my life and really freed me up to live um a more normal life. And so during my young adult years, I had some really great years after college, like involved in a young adult ministry. I met my husband, we got married, um, and we just had some really good years, just some peaceful years. Yes, there was, there were still elements of like seasonal depression and some situational stuff that I wasn't really super well equipped, I think, to to manage. But overall, not, you know, not not a bad young adulthood. Like we all, it's something we all go through, right?
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but it was in 2004 when we moved to Colorado that things started to kind of get tumultuous again. Um, so we we moved to Colorado so my husband could go to a residency program. And we loved Colorado, we loved the mountains and stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So we were hold on, you don't have to tell me the whole story, but you met your husband, you were 13. When did you guys start dating?
SPEAKER_02:Oh 24.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so there was some time in between there. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02:It was funny because when he moved to Nebraska to go to dental school, um, we met in church, yeah, and I was in charge of. Young adult ministry at the time. And so he came and somebody introduced him to me and, like, oh, he's new here. Will you take him to the young adult ministry? And I was like, uh, I know you. Like, where do I know you from?
SPEAKER_00:So and so you spoke to me when I was 12. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He was like, Yeah, I remember you. Oh, you're super nice to me.
SPEAKER_00:All right. And so then you move out to Colorado for him to do his residency in dental school.
SPEAKER_02:Uh ortho.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Specializing. So he was already graduated. He'd already been a dentist for a while, and now he's going into this residency program to specialize.
SPEAKER_04:Cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And so we were we're looking forward to being in Colorado. But he had, as part of this program that he was doing, he had entered into a business uh contract. And I'm not going to go into details on this, but um part way through I don't even know if it was first or second year when this happened, but partway through his program, um he got sued. A whole group of people got sued.
SPEAKER_00:And that's how you sue somebody, you sue somebody, and then anybody that's related to them, you throw them in the lawsuit as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And it wasn't anything that he did, not at all. It was a part of this business contract. Um, and the person who was suing was somebody who was very well connected, very wealthy. Um, new presidents, new judges, new um political figure. So very wealthy, very connected, very powerful person. And he literally threatened to take everything that we had, which wasn't a lot, but we'd worked hard to get where we were. We had a home, you know, we had um, we had a few things. And so you can imagine what that triggered in me. That here I am facing this situation again where I could lose everything. And I was like, uh, and so just instantly um fear and just just I wanted to control everything. And this legal battle went on for five years, and so I'm living in this state of just fear for five years. Um, and during that time we were forced to start a business because the business contract didn't work out, so we had to start a business. Um, and this is when I started to um experience some allergic reactions to things. Like I started getting rashes on my face, and I started becoming like allergic to shampoos and lotions and things like that. So I had to start like adjusting my life just a little bit to try to manage some of those, um, some of those symptoms. And then in 2008, um we decided that we were ready to start a family. We're like, okay, we we want to start a family. Like we're a little late to the game, but understandably it took me a little while to get to a place in my life where I was ready to take on that kind of thing. Um so we decided that adoption was the best route for us. And it took a little while to get to that place that in 2011 we started the domestic adoption process. Um, at this point, the legal battle's been resolved. And I know that's like it sounds like it's all neat and tidy and all that, but it was like a grueling, grueling five years. Like it took a huge toll on me. Um, I will say that there is one really important piece that came out of that um, that whole uh legal battle process. Um, there was a point in time when I was sitting in my office at work with a friend, Christian friend, and I'm telling her about what's going on, and just with this, you know, with this anger and protection going on in my heart. And she's like, Shannon, I need to pray for you. I'm like, okay. She's like, you can't be here in this place. Like when you start thinking in your mind, how can I make this stop? You start to realize that if you let yourself go there, there's some real evil that can happen in your heart when you're being threatened. And she's like, No, I need to pray for you. And so she prayed over me that I would forgive. Um, and I was completely willing, and like, I want to forgive, I want to release this. Um, yes, pray over me. I'm I'm ready to give this to God. And so she prayed over me and literally um God just took it. You know, all of this anger and rage that I had towards this person, God just miraculously took it from my heart. So, like that was a huge thing in my life um to learn how to forgive, um, you know, at a deeper level. Um, so I that's kind of an important piece of that. But anyway, that's beautiful. Um, we're going through this adoption process. And I don't know, I I don't know, still so naive we were. We're like, oh, well, if we can't have kids, we'll just adopt. You know, people say that we'll just adopt. Yeah, it's not an easy process.
SPEAKER_00:Doesn't go, it's not that easy.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's expensive. Um, you have to make decisions that you never thought you would have to make. Like, are you willing to um accept a baby who is a result of rape or incest? Are you willing to accept a baby who's addicted to drugs when they're born? Are you you know you have to make all of these judgment calls of things that you're willing or not willing to receive? And you and and you have absolutely no control. You have no control over the process. Like you have control basically over getting your profile in and getting your home study done. And after that, it it's up to that, it's up to the the birth parents, right? To they look at your profile and they they look through lots of people's profiles, and either you get picked or you don't get picked, and you just wait. And you know that like it could be tomorrow. You could get a call and they could say there's a baby in New Jersey that you can go get, or it could be two years from now that you get a call and somebody picks you. So there's like no control that you have over any of the situation. Um so it was a pretty challenging time. Um and this is when I started getting sick on food. Um it seemed random, like I would eat a salad and I would get sick, or I would eat a burrito and it would get s I would get sick, and I was like, I have no idea what's making me sick. I would just I just kept getting sick until um we was like digestive system sick.
SPEAKER_00:I don't want to get too personal or like the highs.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know, I don't want to get too many details, but yes. I mean, literally I would lose, I would lose the meal. I mean, yes. Um and we we went to Lincoln in the spring of 2012. We went to just go visit friends and people we knew out there, and because that's where I lived for years. And if if you've ever been to Lincoln, you've heard of Valentino's, right?
SPEAKER_00:And we're I spent some time there, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. They used to have the buffet, which they don't, I don't think since COVID they don't have it anymore.
SPEAKER_00:But they don't? That was the only good thing.
SPEAKER_02:I know, right? It's the best thing.
SPEAKER_00:On 70th Street, that buffet was amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think now it's just vows to go, at least as far as I know. But anyway, we were so blummed. We were leaving after our time there in Lincoln, we were leaving, we're on our way home, and we're like, hey man, we didn't get to go to the buffet. Um, so hey, let's stop in Grand Island on our way home. We'll stop in Grand Island, we'll go to the buffet. I'm like, okay, that's yeah, that'll be fun. So we go to Grand Island, we you know, pig out on this buffet. If you've ever been, it's like every I'm like so much food. Um, and we get back in the car, we're on away, and about 20, 30 minutes down the road, I'm like, yeah, I'm not feeling well.
SPEAKER_01:Like this, this lunch isn't gonna stay, you know. So I'm like, okay, Jerry, uh, we need to look for a place to stop.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I'm not feeling very well. He's like, all right, so I think we got, I think we made it to Carney and we pulled over, and I went in, got rid of my lunch, and I noticed I'm like, I'm like, oh man, I got like hives. I'm itching, and I've got like hives on my arms. I'm like, oh, that's kind of that's new, that's different. Like, what's happening? I'm like, oh, I'll be fine, you know. We get in the car, and like usually I just I feel better after that, right? So we get in the car and we're driving down the road, and I'm like, Jerry, I don't feel very good. Like, I don't feel right. And I turn and I look at my husband, and he's like, Oh my gosh. Like my lips are swollen, my eye is swollen. He's like, my ear was swelling. I'm like, Yeah, I can't breathe very well, like I can't swallow. He's like, Oh my gosh, you're having an allergic reaction. And I'm like, Okay. Um, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Hitch.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Where he's like shellfish, and then he's like, start drinking the Benadryl. That was literally me. We make it to Lexington, he like tears into the Walmart parking lot. So I get out, I find the drug aisle, you know, where all the allergy stuff is, and I literally I'm opening the Benadryl, liquid Benadryl, and I'm drinking it as I'm going to be the cashier. And I check out, and then you know, I we get the Benadryl in my system. Um I don't know, half hour or so. Um symptoms aside. But I don't know, anybody who's ever had an allergic reaction like that, it's exhausting. Like it's and it's terrifying, right? You're terrified, you're exhausted, and I'm just like the whole rest of the time, I'm just like, oh my gosh, what just happened? So long story short, over the next year, there were different things. Of course, now I'm afraid to eat, right? I don't know, I don't know what caused it. I don't know what's going on. Um, I know some things make me sick. How sick is it gonna make me?
SPEAKER_00:Um Do you know now what it was that yes? Okay, so I don't want to spoil it. I don't want to spoil it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm getting there. We narrowed it down to a few things. And so in March of 2013, I went in and I had allergy testing, and sure enough, it's it was sunflower seeds, sunflower oil. Um, that was, and sunflower oil is literally like the number two or three ingredient on Valentino's spaghetti sauce, on their pasta sauce, not their pizza sauce, but their pasta sauce. So it was like a lot of it in there, which is what made me so sick. Um, but I remember getting this allergy testing done and sitting down with the doctor afterwards, and she's like, Yeah, um, don't eat this or you could die.
SPEAKER_00:The sunflower oil.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I'm like, okay, so this is serious. Like, I need to, I need to be careful with this, right? So that was really um, really terrifying, honestly.
SPEAKER_00:And it was How does how do you how does one develop a sunflower oil allergy? Had you uh do you think you had always been allergic to this?
SPEAKER_02:Um, you know, all my life there was times here and there where I would get sick on food. But it was like, you know, big spans of time between. And I remember like going to salad bars and putting sunflower seed on my salads. Like I always put sunflower seeds on my salads and not getting sick. So I don't know. I it's one of those things you're like, maybe there was always this propensity for it, but it was never like, never like this, right?
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so I remember my husband and I are sitting at the table and we're eating, and I'm eating a piece of piece of bread, and I'm like, well, it was like a day or two later. He's like, I'm like, well, I don't really eat sunflower seeds. Like, I I that's no problem. I'll just not eat sunflower seeds. That's a big deal, no big deal. I never eat them. And he and I'm literally taking a bite of a piece of bread, and he's like, Aren't there sunflower seeds in that bread? And I was like, Yes, there's like I didn't that was the moment I was like, oh, I wonder what else has sunflower seeds in it.
SPEAKER_01:So I went into my pantry and I started reading the boxes, and I was like, oh my gosh, sunflower oil is in everything, like it's literally in everything.
SPEAKER_02:And I was like, okay, this is gonna take a bit of an What's it in that I wouldn't know? Like, name it like something almost all packaged snack foods, like uh not probably 95% of chips. Oh wow, probably 80 to 90 percent of crackers, breads, of course, any multi-grained breads, a lot of them have sunflower seeds in them. There's there's a lot, there's a lot of like things out there that have have it in there. Okay, yeah, soups, there's a lot of soups that have it in there. So anything that's pre that's pre-made lot, I always so I go to the store and I remember standing in the aisle and I'm reading um the labels on the food, and I just was standing there in the grocery store aisle and just crying. I was like, what am I gonna eat? I I don't even know what I mean, I don't even know what I'm gonna eat. So this was this huge adjustment to figure out like just shift in my life, right? So I did it. I learned all the, you know, learned all the labels, learned what was safe, what was not safe, adjusted my diet. I'm like, okay, we're good. And I wanted to manage it, right? I just learned to manage. Um, and we moved on, moved on with our life. And uh we matched in the adoption process about that same time, honestly. It was right around um when I was diagnosed with the food allergies. We matched with our daughter, and she was born in June. And maybe one day I'll tell that story because that's an amazing story of miracles and amazing things that happened, but we don't have time for that today. Um, but you know, I it was just new mom, right? I'm a new mom. I'm exhausted and tired, but like so full of joy and just feeling so blessed with this beautiful child. Um, you know, you have your ups and downs, you have colic and sleepless nights and whatnot. But we had this happy baby, like in general, we would I would take her to the library of her story time, and I'm like, is she happy like this all the time? Like, yeah, she's happy like this all the time. She was just a sweet, sweet kid. And um around January of 2015, she got this infection, and and they I don't know why they they gave her just this huge dose of antibiotics. I don't know why it had to be such a huge dose, but they did. And then shortly after that, she broke out into these hives all over her body, and she couldn't, um, we couldn't get rid of them no matter what we did. So she ended up having to take uh prenazone or some sort of steroid to get rid of the hives. And it's weird, something shifted in my sweet kid, and she just started screaming all the time. Like, um I didn't, I did not know what was going on. Like, I remember she's sitting at the the kitchen counter and the at the island, and I gave her something to eat. She's like, I don't know, year and a half, she's just sitting there eating, and she just starts screaming and flailing her hands like this, just start screaming and flailing, and I'm literally looking at her, and I'm like, I don't know what's happening to my child. Like, what is happening? What is happening? And then it was just um we would get we would bathe her and she would scream, we would dress her, she would scream, we would put her coat on, she would scream with everything, any transition, any anything. We'd I'd I'd in the morning, you know how you do as parents, you're like, this outfit or this outfit? Like, which one do you want? And she'd pick one out and she'd she would put it on, we put it on and she'd scream. She was just like always and so I we didn't know what what to do. Like, you know, is this behavioral? Is there something like is it adoption related? Like, what's going on? Um it we ended up figuring out what it was, um, and we're able to get some help for it. And again, not my story, so I don't want to go into great great detail on that. But what happened because this went on for years, I began to see my daughter as a threat. I didn't realize that I did. Um, I remember sitting, we went to a bird.
SPEAKER_00:Like a threat to your peace or a threat to your safety, a threat to your peace or your safety, or um, yes.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, she wasn't violent. It was, you know, some kids that go through what she went through become violent. Like they'll literally hit and throw. And she was never violent. She was just distraught, just distraught with what she was experiencing in her body. And um of course I'm torn. Like I've got, I'm torn with once we figured out what it was, I'm like, I've been a terrible mother like for the last three years as we've been going because I didn't know what I don't know how to treat it, you know. But at the same time, sorry, at the same time, I've got this other side of me that's like literally walking on eggshells constantly. Like I'm like, what's coming next? What meltdown? What thing's gonna happen next? And I remember um I'm we went to a birthday party at a bowling alley, and um, I'm holding a child's or a friend's child. This kid was about maybe a year, a year and a half old. And there was this somebody got a strike or something, you know, and this eruption of screaming and tearing and whatnot. And um I'm holding this child and I went like this. I was like, oh, what I braced myself for what was about to come. And this child was just like happy and fine. And I was like, that's different. Like, that's not how my child would react. And that was when I was like, oh, I re I like recognized at that point what this was doing to me, like this whole that I was constantly in a state of flight or fight or flight, like constantly bracing myself for when was the next, you know, screaming or um meltdown that was gonna happen. So um yeah, so that I think that like was stirring more in my body and it stirred more in me psychologically than physically than I realized that it was. And yeah, so any questions at this point, give you a chance to interject if you want.
SPEAKER_00:What how did you uh talk to God about this stuff? Oh that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, through I remember so when we were going through the adoption process, I remember I remember saying to God, like, I trust you. Like, I trust you, please just don't bring us a this can sound like a really weird prayer. Please don't bring us a situation that I can't handle. I remember praying that to God when we were waiting to match. Like, please, whatever child you bring into our life, um, make sure something that I can handle, you know, that we can that we can deal with as parents. And I remember in the middle of this being like, God, what were you thinking? Like, why did you think that I could do this?
SPEAKER_00:You're like, God, I specifically asked you.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Why did you think that I could do this? Why did you think that I was the right parent for this child to help her through this thing? And I literally remember, like, I I would get up in the morning and I would go into her room with in hulks, right? I'd be like, Good morning. You know, like that's the first thing. That's like that's what I would. And so there were days and I would lay in bed and I would be like, Yeah, I can't do it. I can't get up. I can't I can't fix this day. Like, you don't have a choice, but you know, I just didn't want to.
SPEAKER_00:You said that this isn't your story to tell, but that you did end up finding out there it was a reason. There wasn't, it wasn't just like a personality. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yes, we did. There were there was a physiological reason for what was happening. Um, and thank God we found ways to treat it.
SPEAKER_01:And she's I'll just say that she is an amazing child, she's brilliant, she's sweet, she has a heart for God. She's just, I I wouldn't think.
SPEAKER_02:So um, love her to death. Um and I'm glad to say that right before I tell you this next part because it might come out wrong.
SPEAKER_01:Because it might come out wrong when I show tell you this part.
SPEAKER_02:So in the spring of 2016, I felt God impress upon me that we were supposed to adopt again. And like I, you know, all through my life, God had been with me, you know, in my journey. And so uh Holy Spirit and I talked, right? Like I knew God's voice. And I'm like, okay, God, I know your voice. Not a chance. It's not happening.
SPEAKER_01:Like, I'm not going through this again. I'm not going through this again. And um, that's why it's good that you know that I love her and she's amazing because I want this to come out wrong.
SPEAKER_02:But I was like, I can't handle this. Like, what if we have to go through this thing, same thing again? I can't do it again. Um, and I resisted for about six months. Um, but he was like, Oh, not button up on this. Like, time after time, there were things that he just brought into my life, and he's like, No, this is where I want you to go. This is what I want you to do.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm like, uh, okay, now I gotta tell my husband that this is what you want me to do. Like, we gotta have this conversation. Um, so we did. I I told him, and he's had the same response I did like, not a chance, not happening, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but eventually um we came around and we're like, okay. You know, and I kept telling myself in the back of my head, I'm like, God, I trust you. Like, this is what I'm telling myself. Like, I trust you. I know that you never ask us to do something that's bad, right? That there's there's gonna be good from it. So I I want to trust you. Like, this is where I was like, like, I want to trust you, but I'm really having a hard time. So, you know, I'm going through all these thoughts in my mind, like, well, maybe there's a child that needs a home, and that even though it's gonna be hard for me, it's what God's calling me to do. So I'm being called to this ministry or this mission or whatever. Um, or you know, I don't know. Maybe there was some lesson. I don't, I don't know. Like I just kept going through this, but I kept thinking, like, God, I want to trust you. Um, we went through the process, we got our home study all in order, and we get to this, we get to this place, and I'm just paralyzed by fear, like literally paralyzed by fear. I'm like, I can't do this. And so we would go through this roller coaster, we would make our profile live, and I would be just in fear all the time. And then we would, we were like, okay, let's take it down. We we're not gonna do this. And so we would take the profile down, and then I would be like grieving, like, because I come to the space where we wanted this, so then I would be grieving, and then I'd be like, okay, let's put it back live again. And then I would be in fear. No matter what I did, I had no peace, and I felt so trapped because this was one of those things that I don't feel like I can make any decision here that's gonna bring me peace. And I was like, I didn't know what to do, I was really stuck. And this was the point in time, probably not surprisingly so, that I got really sick. I got really sick. Um some somewhere late 2017, and I began to experience extreme fatigue. Like I took my daughter, you know, during the next summer, I took my daughter to the children's museum. And I remember sitting there and almost felt like I don't know if ever anybody's ever experienced um extreme fatigue like this, but it's not it's not I'm tired, I'm I didn't get enough sleep kind of fatigue. It's like something physiological that happens. And I remember sitting there on a bench or something, watching her play and watching the other moms and just thinking, why can't I have that kind of energy? Why can't I get up off this bench and go play with my daughter? Like I can barely move. Um, and it, I was like, man, will I ever will I ever be able to be the mom that those people are? Like, will I ever feel like that again? And I began to experience this extreme brain fog. Um I'm I remember I remember this actually, even though I wasn't thinking very clearly. Like I remember trying to have a conversation with my husband, and I could not complete my sentences. And he's like, Are you okay? Like, I don't I don't know if I'm okay or not. Like I just couldn't, I could barely speak. And I was in a grad program at this time. Um and for the first time in my life, I needed a tutor to get me through the class that I was in. And it wasn't, I don't think it was really that hard of a class, but I just couldn't think. And during this time, my allergies began to intensify. So I was reacting to everything: um, foods, lotions, shampoo, soaps, like everything. Like I would go into a room that had a candle burning and I would break out into hives. Like I was just constantly reacting to everything. Um, of course, you already know that I was having anaphylactic reactions to things, and um, usually that was sunflower oil, but sometimes, you know, I would have multi-system reactions, which is what they consider anaphylaxis. If you have more than one system that responds at the same time, they consider that anaphylaxis. Um, I could not eat without pain. Like I hated eating. I wanted to just never eat again. I looked like I was six months pregnant every time I ate. It was miserable. Um, but I was I also couldn't go without eating because if I didn't eat like every three or four hours, then I would feel nasty. I would get like this hypoglycemic type of a feeling. And so I had to eat every three or four hours, but I wish that I never had to eat again. I started getting these infections. Um, I had horrible insomnia. Um, and then I had arthritis. Um, my shoulders hurt so bad that I could barely lift my arms over my head. Like I could barely get dressed to like to change my shirt or something. Um I had joints that were subluxing, like they wouldn't stay in place. They would like kind of slide out of place. Um, my foot was black and blue. I remember my hands and my thumbs here hurting so bad that when I would when I would cut up food or whatever, it just hurt, it just hurt so bad just to, just to cook. Of course, the GI problems that I had had for a while, um, blood pressure and heart rate problems. Um, I got these migraines that would last literally for weeks. Like I would get a migraine trigger and I I couldn't, it just wouldn't go away. And kind of the last straw, you know, like I'm dealing with all of this stuff, and kind of the last straw that came was this dehabilitating vertigo. Um, like I had um been dealing with something called benign positional vertical for quite a while. Like it was something that would come and go, but it's treatable, the crystals in your ears come loose, right? And then you get these dizzy spells and can go to the audiologist or the vestibular therapist and they can treat you and put them back into place. But I now was experiencing something that they call vestibular migraines too, which was triggering this intense vertigo. I remember this time um my mom was living in town in town um at the time in an assisted living, and I was responsible for like taking to her to her doctor's appointments, right? And so we went to the uh went to the eye doctor to get her some glasses. And so I've got a 95-year-old woman and a five-year-old child with me in my care, right? And so we're we're we're at the eye doctor, and my mom had to use the bathroom, and so I took her, and it was like one of those one stall, one-seater ones. And so I got her in there, closed the door behind me, and I remember turning around really quickly, and I was on the ground. Like the vertigo hit so intense that I fell to the ground and I remember propping myself up against the wall. And the first call that I made was to my vestibular therapist, she's like a physical therapist that um specializes in vertigo. And I like, I called her, I'm like, I can't move. Like, I need to get in to see you right now. Like, I can't get up off the floor. Um, and here I am with a 95-year-old and a five-year-old in my care, and I don't know how I'm gonna get home. And uh we managed to get back into from the because the bathroom was across the hall from where the all the glass, you know, the room with all the glasses where we were picking out her glasses for ins. We managed to get from there back into the other room. And I'm like, okay, who am I going to call to come and get me? Because I can't drive. Like, you know, I can't, I can't get these my family back safely. My husband was in clinic, um, so I called an amazing friend who had all of her kids with her, but she came anyway and she brought her mom and she drove, you know, they got us home safely, got my mom back at her place, they got me home, and and I'm like, like, how am I gonna manage this? Like, and this was, and I think you've heard me say this. Like, this was when I was like, God, am I dying? Like, what's happening? What's happening to my body? Like, why does nothing work? Why does nothing in my body work? So I started going to the doctors um to find out what was wrong. I went to rheumatologists and immunologists and cardiologists and neurologists and physical therapists, and like all the people, um, GIs, trying to figure out um what was happening, and nobody had any answers. Um and yeah, summer of 2018, like all of this was happening at the same time. Like all of these symptoms at the same time, and I'm just like, I don't know what to do. Um and but I had this black and blue foot, so I'm like, okay, I'm at least gonna go to the doctor the podiatrist and see if he can figure out what the heck's going on with my foot. Like, why is my foot black and blue? I didn't do anything to it. So I go to the doctor and he takes all the x-rays and you know, all the scans and things to see if there's something going on internally, and there wasn't. So he's doing a physical exam on my foot and he's like pushing on the ball of my foot, and he's like, Okay, see this right here, and he's like pushing on it. He's like, That's not supposed to do that. I'm like, What do you mean? He's like, Your joints are not supposed to move like that. I'm like, oh, okay. Um, and although this was like really scary, I was diagnosed with the early stages of arthritis and my feet. Um, and it was really scary, but at the same time, it was like this first ray of hope. I was like, could it be that this is related to all of these things? Symptoms. Like, could this possibly be the thing? And sure enough, after like a lot of research and months, I don't know if you've anybody who's ever been sick knows you had to wait months to get in to see somebody. But I was eventually diagnosed with something called generalized hypermobility spectrum disorder, which is similar to Ayler's Download syndrome, but it's not quite as severe. Like I my joints weren't dislocating. They weren't like literally coming out of the socket, but they were sliding out. And so it's a connective tissue disorder that basically your ligaments are too stretchy. So anything in your body that has connective tissue, which is essentially every part of your body, um, is too stretchy. So I've gotten to the point where I get like I couldn't do heavy cardio exercise because my blood vessels would stretch as the blood would pump higher, but they didn't have enough like connectivity and stretchiness to come back, or not stretchiness, but like enough to pull back. So I would, that's what would trigger my migraines. That's one of the things that would trigger my migraines, is if I worked out heavy, then I would get this migraine because I would have just like all this intense blood flow that the vessels couldn't contract. So there was just stuff like that. Um, and then I went to the cardiologist and they just diagnosed me with dysautonomia, which POTS is like the most common form of dysautonomia. Like people are familiar with that, but essentially it's just a dysfunction of your autonomic systems, which I'm like, it's just a label because obviously, you know, that was obvious that that was what was happening because it was all of the autonomic nervous systems that weren't weren't functioning.
SPEAKER_00:Um so I was like, okay, so at least I have is there a solution for that, or is it just like this is what you got?
SPEAKER_02:It's what you got. There's no care for either one. Um, and it's very common um to have what they call comorbidities, where there's you know, the dysautonomia and the EDS or this this hypermobility. There's there's a few things that kind of tend to go together that affect your systems like that. And you know, as I thought back, I'm like, yeah, I've always had this. Like I've always been like able to put my feet behind my head, not now, but when I was a kid, you know, when I was 16, I could put my feet behind my head, I could do the splits in any direction. I was always very, very flexible. Um, and I always kind of had that thing where I had to, I had a limit. Like I could do um intense exercise, but I had a limit. And if I if I passed that limit, then my body wouldn't recover. Like I would be out for the rest of the day. I would just like, so I I kind of knew that I had this threshold. Um, you know, at 19, I realized, oh, if I do like high impact exercises, my knees swell. So I should probably do all low impact. But there are things that I adjusted and never really thought anything about, right? Until this all hit. And I'm like, oh, I guess that's always been there. It's just never become a problem, you know, until this point in my life. Um, so yeah, I got to the place where it was like, okay, I have a name, but I have no cure. So what do I do? How do I manage this? Um, and this is where um I got to the place where I I whittled my diet down to like 30 ingredients um over time. Like if at first it was like, oh, let's take this out. Now, you know, of course it's always gluten dairy first, like those are inflammatories. Let's take those out first. And there was like all these things I tried, and finally it was just like, I gotta just let's just take it all out and like test stuff. And um, I went into the out to the immunologist and they did this test um to see like if you react to what kind of foods you react to. And um, I also had to do medications and some other stuff too, so like some herbs and basically they test whether they test how your white blood cells react to these things. So if you're in if your immune system is actually responding. Um, and so I go back to talk to the immunologist. He's like, well, normally when we do these tests, we just have you avoid the foods that you and the and the medications and whatnot that you react to. He's like, but for you, he's he's like, this is one of the longest lists I've ever seen. And he's like, so for you, you need to avoid the the severe and the moderate reactions, but the mild reactions, you're gonna have to rotate through these because like if you don't eat these foods, you're not gonna get enough nutrition. And I was like, awesome, this is straight. So I literally whittled my diet down to 30 ingredients. And when I say ingredients, I don't mean meals. I mean like rosemary, thyme, chicken, beef, um, potatoes, you know, what people would like when I would go to visit people and stay with them, they'd be like, give me a list of the things that you can't eat. And I'm like, you know, it's a lot easier for me to give you the list of things that I can't eat than it is for me to give you the list of things that I can't eat. And so I just got to the place where I just took food with me everywhere that I went because um I just couldn't eat anything because you never know what's gonna be in stuff. Um I learned to cook. That's the one good thing that came out of all of this. I learned to cook. I made everything from scratch. Um, no processed foods, no sugars, everything organic. I had like one or two restaurants. Like once in a while we would go to Mad Greens because I could literally say that, that, that. Like I knew exactly what would go into it and I could control what was going in there. Um food became it can it controlled my life. It controlled my life. I had gotten to the place where I was afraid that I wasn't going to have enough to eat. It had become just this significant fear in my life. And because of that, I began to hoard, not in the sense that I collected food, but in the sense of like I would be making a meal for my family, and I'd be like, this is mine. Like I would always take mine first, and then they got the rest. And so there was this growing sense in the back of my mind that was like, this isn't the person that God called me to be. I'm supposed to be a person that thinks of others first. Like I'm supposed to be a person that um, you know, give is giving and and not selfish, but yet how do I do that and still protect myself? So it was this like cognitive dissonance that I lived with as I tried to protect myself while at the same time, well, how do I be that generous giving person that I'm supposed to be? So that was always in the back of my head. I took breaks from school because I, again, I was in this grad program. So I had to take semesters off and time off to give my body a chance to rest and ski and heal. Um, took medication, uh, thyroid, and then like just mostly things to help me tolerate food. It was stuff that the immunologist had given me just to help me tolerate the little food that I was eating. Of course, I had vestibular therapy and physical therapy to help with the joint pain, braces and insoles, you know, braces for my hands for when I worked out and insoles for my feet to help with the support, you know, with the joints and whatnot. And I just kind of got to this place where I was like managing. Like, okay, I got this under control, like I'm managing my symptoms, but it got, but I don't know if you've ever seen the game whack-em-hole at like at a carnival or the fair or whatever. That's what it felt like. It was like this symptom, nope, now this symptom, now this symptom, not this symptom. It was just like this constant, and so that like took up my entire life was just managing symptoms. And I was in bondage, like I began to see that my life was never going to be normal. The things that my husband and I used to enjoy doing together, I was like, I'm never gonna get to do these things, you know, not gonna get to eat at a restaurant with them again. And and of course, you can imagine from his perspective, he's what affects me affects him. So, like the things that I can't do, he can't do anymore. I mean, he could do by himself, but not not as a pair, not as a family anymore. Right. I would spend hours in the day, yeah, hours every day in the kitchen cooking. Um, had to take food with me everywhere that I went, like because I couldn't go more than a few hours without eating, yet at the same time, I couldn't just grab a box of crackers or you know, bag of nuts or dried fruit, none of that. Like I couldn't eat any of that kind of stuff. So I had to like pre-prepare all my food and freeze it so that like we were gonna go on a picnic. I had to think days in advance about what do I need to cook and how do I need to prepare and then have it all ready. Um, and I just got to the place where I was just depressed and I was like, you know, I just wish this was terminal. Like how am I gonna how am I gonna live the next 30 or 40 years like this? You know, I don't I don't want to live the next 30 or 40 years like this. I was like, why couldn't I have just had cancer or something terminal, right? Something I knew that that had an end um in sight and that was a pretty bad place to be. So needless to say, we discontinued our adoption process, right? Because that's like going on at the same time. And I'm like, well, clearly I can't take a new child into my home right now. I'm so sick, right? Um but that's when I started to really doubt God. I was like, okay, God, I know that you told me to do this. I know that you told me that you wanted me to adopt a child. At least I think that's what you told me to do. So either I misunderstood and you didn't really tell me to do that, which makes me question my whole life because I've heard your voice my whole life. So I knew that that was the voice that I've listened to my whole life. So if that wasn't you, then is any of it real? You know, and and then if it was you, why in the world would you ask me to do a thing that you knew I wasn't that that you knew I wasn't gonna be able to accomplish? Like, why would you ask me to do this thing? And I began to question everything that I believed about God. I began to question just like, are you are you even real? Yeah, I I just it's the only time in my life where I started from the beginning and I was like, do you exist? Does God exist? And I and I just started from the beginning and we just kind of worked my way back. And I got to the place where it was like, okay, I think God exists, but I don't know who he is. I don't know if he's good. Why would he, you know, why would he bring me here? And I remember saying to him during this part of my journey, don't give up on me. Like, I'm not sure what I believe. I don't know if you're there, but if you are, just keep pursuing me. Just don't give up. Because if you're real, I I want to be a part of I want you to be a part of my life, but just don't give up. Just like help me through this process. And I remember telling, I remember like, I was like, I'm just not gonna talk to you for a while. And it was really strange because I didn't realize how much I talked to God. It was constant before, right? Like it was just this constant conversation with God, and all of a sudden it was just quiet.
SPEAKER_01:And I was like, dang, this is lonely. I'm not sure that I like this not talking to God thing.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so this was a kind of a yeah, really dark spiritual place in my life. Um but I started, like I said, I got back to the place where I believed that God was real, but I wasn't quite sure who I believed that he was. And I don't know if I don't know if people ever get to this. I'm sure other people go through this where I'm like, okay, I believe there's a God and I believe that there's like a devil, right? I know the devil's bad. I know I don't I know I don't want anything to do with that. But if God isn't good, then that's pretty awful that I have to choose between two bad things, right? Like, because I don't believe there's a middle ground. So it's kind of a yucky place to be, like if you don't know that God is good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, if God isn't love, we kind of don't really want anything to do with that either.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And so but what does that leave? So it leaves just this abyss.
SPEAKER_00:It's like uh being an atheist or agnostic, I don't know, just kind of empty.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, wanted to take a minute to uh let you guys know about the stuff that we've got coming up in December. We're gonna be doing a Wave One in December, and we're also going to be doing a get together in Holland, Michigan. And so I want you to keep your eyes peeled for uh the dates for that and uh how you're gonna be able to invite your friends and your family, and I think it's gonna be awesome. And also, I'd just like to point out that we couldn't do these things without you guys uh giving generously and donating. And if you want to partner with us, you can go to www.lovereality.org slash give. And we're planning on continuing to get this out, whether it's through this podcast, whether it's through internet church or Bible studies. We want to tell the world that we are free from and dead to sin in Christ Jesus and that Jesus has brought us from death to life. So partner with us, go to lovereality.org slash give, uh, hang out with us for our wave one, come to Michigan and hang out with us. There's gonna be a lot of stuff going on, and we're gonna be so pumped to see you. But let's uh get back into the episode.
SPEAKER_02:I kind of come back to God, like, okay, I believe you exist, I don't know who you are. Um, and I remember at some point during this time in my life, I my husband and my daughter are gone. They're gone off somewhere, I'm home by myself, probably because I didn't feel good. And I remember kneeling down on the floor next to my coffee table and just saying, God, please heal me. Just please heal me. Like, yes, even the sunflower allergy, just I I can't do this. Like, please heal me. And of course, anyone who's been sick, they want that instantaneous miraculous healing, right? They want it gone now, and I did, I wanted it gone now. Um, I didn't want to have to deal with this anymore. Um, but that is not how it happened. And as I as I kind of walk you through this this part of uh the life part, um it'll probably become obvious that even if God had taken away the symptoms, like even if he'd just been like, okay, the symptoms gone, like it would have just come back because I believed so many lies about God, about myself. Like there were just so many lies that the that the enemy just had uh probably just had complete access, right? Like, because there was just so much, so much junk um that I was believing that he was telling me. And uh there was a process I needed to go go through to get back to God and to believe truth.
SPEAKER_00:Certainly.
SPEAKER_02:Um so in 2020, the infamous year, um, a couple things happened that year. Uh one, my husband and I were a part of this Bible study, and there were some things that were shared in the Bible study that I was like, you know what, I just think that's wrong. Like, I don't agree. And I like had maybe one verse that I could use, but I was like, I don't, I don't know my Bible well enough to be able to speak to this on you know on the spot. I was like, I want to, I want to know my Bible better, and I'm gonna start with salvation.
SPEAKER_04:Good place.
SPEAKER_02:You know, there's all these, there's all these verses about salvation that seem to contradict themselves. You know, is it works? Is it faith? Is it whatever? You know, like believe, believe in your heart, confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Lord, believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and you will be saved, right? Period. That's what it says. And there's these other verses, and they say, Well, you know, you'll be judged by your works or whatever. You know, there's a so I was like, I'm gonna study that.
SPEAKER_00:Any willful sin, and there's no sacrifice, right?
SPEAKER_02:No sacrifices left for your sin. You know, like there's so I began to just study this. And as I did, um, I was like, okay, God, there's a fresh start here. I'm taking off the blinders, not the blinders, I'm taking off the glasses, I'm taking off any preconceived things that I have learned in my back in my past. I am starting from scratch here, and I told God, I said, I am going to believe what I read. Like whatever it is, if the Bible says it, I'm going to believe it. If I don't understand it, I'm going to trust that the Holy Spirit will teach me. Because it says the Spirit will lead us into all truth, right? So I'm like, okay, God, I'm going to believe what I read and trust that you will teach me what I don't understand. Like, if I'm like, okay, this doesn't seem right, but I'm going to believe it and I'm going to let you teach me what it means. And I kid you not, like the Bible just began to open. Every time I opened the Bible, something new. He taught me something new. And I'm just like, whoa, whoa, I didn't see that. Like all of this stuff just started coming alive. It's like he was just waiting for me to say I believe it. Like to say I'm willing to listen to what it is that you have to say to me. Uh, at the same time, my husband and I were studying a topic that we had been taught about, you know, in our history, but it was something that we were like, that there's something not right here. Um, there's something that doesn't fit. There's pieces that don't fit together. So let's start at the beginning and walk through it. Like, let's walk through all the pieces of this and see where the breakdown is. And it just began to open up, open up our hearts and our minds to other things that the that the Bible had to say. So it was just like this new process for me of studying scripture in a whole different way. And at the same time, I began listening to wave one. Um and that a friend of mine, um, my dear friend Cheryl, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Um This was 2020, not 2021.
SPEAKER_02:This is 2020 because I listened to it online. It was the one that was recorded from some church like in 2019. I think one of the first ones, probably. Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so I began listening to that.
SPEAKER_00:And what'd you think about it?
SPEAKER_02:I I thought it was great. I thought it was inspirational. I thought you know it was very biblical. I was like, you know, my husband and I are both like kind of skeptics in a way. We're both people that are like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna listen, we're like, is this scriptural? We'll go back and study. And I'm like, oh yeah, yes, it is, no, it's not, or whatever. And we're like, yeah, this is this is all straight from the word. So like that was good. So I kept listening.
SPEAKER_00:Um shout out to Cheryl, by the way. She's the best.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, my bestie, one of my besties. Um anyway, um, yeah, so I'm starting. My my heart is starting to open up, the spirit's starting to work again. God, God and I are on we're on speaking terms again. Like, you know, we're we're we're working through this. Um and just to interject this piece in because it's important later, we were we felt called to open up the adoption process again. Like we're um, I'm feeling better, I'm managing my symptoms. I'm back, I'm back with God. And I'm like, okay, we're like, okay, we need to open this back up again. So we we opened up our profile again, you know, renewed our home studying, like, so that's going on in the background. But remember this the feelings of like fear and grief. This I was still there, I was still in this just panic, fear, grief, no matter what I did. So that was still like in my head. So um Love Reality came to Denver in the summer, I think it was August 2021. You guys came to South Church, and um, it wasn't a roll, it wasn't a wave one, it wasn't like a full thing.
SPEAKER_00:It was just like two or three sessions. It wasn't, it was like Jonathan was gonna preach and then we were gonna hang out in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it was great. I mean, it was the sermons were amazing, uh, Friday night and Saturday. Um, one of those sermons, oh, by the way, this this is when I met you. And you came up to me. I don't remember if it was, I think it's probably Friday night. You came up to me after the program, and you're like, you know, how's this landing? And I was like, you know, I've heard it because I've been listening to Way One, right? So I'd heard most of Wave One, alright? I'm like, well, I've I've heard it. Yeah, it's it's familiar, like whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I don't know what your impression was, or if you if you I'm just like, there's that lady with the really tall husband, and they look like they're interested, but I'm not sure if they are interested. I wonder how it's landing.
SPEAKER_02:That's how yeah. So, but it was just like, it was like, yeah, I I believe all of this. This is great. Um, but you know, thanks to my grandma when I was a kid, like I believed I was saved and I believed that I was loved. And I was like, I don't get how this is different than what I already know. So I was still just trying to figure out like people seem really excited about this, but it doesn't really seem new to me. Maybe I already know this, you know, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I lost my train of thoughts.
SPEAKER_00:I think we did have a conversation. I don't know. Did you ever work at the bookstore in Lincoln? Okay, because I I think I confused you with my old friend Terry Lair or something. I don't even know if you know Terry. Did we have a conversation? Okay, so I think we just talked about our our old stuff, and then I asked you how it was landing. And your answer was like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:So maybe no, nothing bad. You know, I'm glad it wasn't like, wow, this is really powerful. Like it wasn't really any, it wasn't transformational. And I and I think um it wasn't until I started listening to wave two, and I don't even know if that's even a thing anymore, but at the time there was a wave two, and it was testimonies. I think this has become maybe wave two, you know, the death of life podcast. But I was listening to wave two online. Um, and it wasn't until I started listening to people's stories that I was like, oh I think I see what they're saying. Like that they're they're telling me that this is available to me now. I always knew that I was saved, but I just believed that well, and no wonder, right? With what everything I've been through, I I I believe that I just had to suffer. Like I'm on this earth and I'm gonna struggle with sin and I'm gonna struggle with pain and trauma and all of these things until Jesus comes, and then I get to be free, then I will be set free. So it's just this like plant your feet, grin and bear it, and get through this life kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00:Isn't it amazing that when there's a chance for hope, if you've tried hope before and it doesn't happen, if that hope comes up again, you're like, nah, son, like fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Like, I am not falling for that. So if you're gonna say that I can be healed right now, well, I'm gonna find a way that that like I can still believe in God, but that that doesn't happen and like it's God's, it's not God's plan for me to be healed. And I see this so much, and like I try to change my tactic around it because I don't want to be like, yeah, like bless their heart, they they don't want to be heard again, they don't want to give their hopes up.
SPEAKER_02:Totally get it. And you're about to hear my my part on that. But this particular this particular meeting, um, Jonathan preached a prodigal son sermon. I, you know, those that have listened to Lovery uh wave one, we kind of know it, but it was a little different twist on it. It was a little different than what he does in the wave one. And he talked about, I don't honestly don't remember the details, but I remember he talked about confession. And during the sermon, the Holy Spirit just laid on my heart, you don't trust God. That is your confession. And I was like, Okay, yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right. I'm in this adoption process, I don't trust God. Like, no matter what I do, I'm in turmoil over this. And so I was like, Yeah, okay. So after the meeting, I sat down with Jonathan and I was like, okay, Jonathan, we talked about confession. I have a confession. I don't trust God. Like, that's that's the conviction that I just had. I don't trust God. I don't I want to trust God, like I don't know what to do with this. Like, how do I trust God? I want to trust God, I feel stuck. Like, what do I do? So he he prayed over me. Um asked the Holy Spirit to reveal uh the truth to me, reveal lies that I was believing. And I'm one of those people that if he put me on the spot, like what did he say?
SPEAKER_01:I got nothing, you know?
SPEAKER_02:So Jonathan was like, was it fear? I'm like, well, yes, of course it's fear. Like, that's like my mantra through my whole life was fear, right? But he said something so profound to me. Um, because I was talking to him about this adoption journey and how I was stuck. And he he said, if God placed a baby in your home right now, would you then say I want this baby to go through trauma? I was like, of course not. Like I was almost like, you know, offended. And he's like, exactly. So why would you believe that God would want that for his child, meaning me, right? Um and it just opened up this oh my gosh, like what do I believe? Like, what do I believe? And so over the next um, over the next few days, maybe weeks, um, God just started opening up my understanding to some of the lies. Now, more and more lies came later, but some of the lies that I believed, like I believed that God wanted trauma for me. Like He was only asking me to do this thing um because it was gonna be some hard thing that I was gonna learn a lesson or it was gonna grow me in some way, or maybe it was for a different reason, maybe it was because it was a child that needed a home, and it's gonna be really hard to do it, but it was needed because it's maybe needed, you know, like all these things going on.
SPEAKER_00:Isn't that the way we talk in our faith background? Kind of like I feel like I run into people that have this same exact thing, and like and it's a protection because anything that goes wrong like that, they have to have a reason, and must be God's will or yeah, and I'm like, what? No, like that, like God doesn't get his way all the time. Like exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, that's not what and this the first, like, I think the first verse that kind of God planted in my heart was if you who are evil know how to do give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give good gifts to those who ask? Like that was the first like seed of truth that he started to plant in my heart to show me who he was. Um, yeah. And it over the next few weeks, it became evident to me, you know, going back to when I was really struggling with God, like why would you even ask me to pursue this adoption process? Like, why did you call me to this? And it became evident to me that at least this is my my interpretation. Um, one day I'll talk to God about it. But I would have, I didn't know. I didn't know the lies that I believed. I didn't know I believed God wanted trauma for me. I didn't know, I didn't understand that that was what was going on in the back of my head, and that's why I was so afraid. And I think he called me to that. I think it never had anything to do with growing our home. I think it had to do with me and him. And he knew that that was like a trigger point for me. That if I was gonna learn to trust him, it was gonna be in a situation I had no control over. And so he called me to do this hard thing, not because he wanted me to do a hard thing, but because he wanted me to learn to trust him. And he was gonna bless me no matter what. If we adopted a baby, he was gonna bless. If we didn't adopt a baby, he was gonna bless. It wasn't about whether he was gonna bless us or not. It was what it was about me learning to trust him and learning the truth. And I needed a trigger to kind of uncover what was happening. I don't, I don't know. I don't know if that's it, but that's what it seemed like to me because that's what opened up the whole thing for me and started um taking me down this road of who is God and what do I believe and what's real, what's really the truth in all of this. And so as I began to learn the gospel, I began to realize that like this is for me now. Like I can be free now, I can be, I don't know, healed. I can be all of these things now. I don't have to wait for salvation. Jesus gives us power now, he gives us hope now. Um, and of course, as is similar for many, many, most of the people here, the first step in that was identity, right? The first step in it was really who am I? Who does God say that I am? And up until this point, my identity was wrapped up in good grades, whether I was successful at work or not, awards, promotions, you know, raises, after. For teachers and managers, being smart. Like, I my identity was like, I'm smart, I can't, I'm capable. Um, another part of my identity was that I'm physically fit. Well, not anymore, right? Like I'm a mess now. I'm physically a mess right now. But like that was part of my identity before. Like tenacity, hard work, work ethic. Like these were all part of who I saw myself. That was my identity. And they're and they're all good things, right? They're still a part of who I am because I believe in excellence, but they're not what defined me anymore. Um, and because my identity was on this, you know, house built on the sand, I would go from like pride and self-worth, like I just accomplished this great thing. I have a good day, right? And then I would go to like depression and self, self-loathing when I wouldn't succeed. And it was just this roller coaster of emotions that I would go through, um, which was what was driving a lot of that depression and a lot of that angst in me was that my identity was built on uh on sand, uh, on something that was completely unstable. Um, but then as I learned the gospel, I began to realize that no, I'm I'm a daughter of the king. Like, right? I'm I'm loved. I in fact, when I think about Ephesians 3, I'm I am loved in such an unfathomable way. He says it takes the Holy Spirit to help you understand this love that is beyond comprehension, right? Like it's such a deep and powerful love that is beyond our understanding. The Holy Spirit has to help us understand it. And of course, one of the most, a couple of the most meaningful parts in this, and a lot of this is coming from Ephesians 1, as you probably recognize. Um, I was chosen.
SPEAKER_00:But you just quo quoted 1 Corinthians 2, so you're uh No, that's Ephesians 3. What the Holy Spirit is revealing to us the heart of God. That's the that whole idea is 1 Corinthians 2.
SPEAKER_02:No, the the the love of God in Ephesians 3 talks about how the love is beyond our comprehension. Absolutely, yeah. Great stuff in Corinthians 2, too. Um, and we we have the mind of Christ, so that's where it talks about that, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but I'm chosen, like that was like one of the most meaningful things to me coming from my history. Like, I'm chosen, and not only that, it says that God adopts me as his child according to his pleasure and will. He wants me as his daughter. And that was like, oh my gosh, like that is so incredible. Um, I do this thing sometimes when we study John, um, the blind man, um, when we do Bible studies on that, and I'll ask, like, what's your what's your one-sentence testimony? You know, he's like, I'm blind, but now I see that's his one sentence testimony. And mine was mine's like, I was an orphan, but now I am a child of the king. Like, that's my one-sons testimony. Like, he he's my dad, you know, and of course, all the other beautiful blessings in Ephesians 1, you know, blessed and redeemed, forgiven, righteous, free, like all of these beautiful promises. And and this began to be my new identity. And um, of course, as we start to, you know, uncover our identity, we we have to figure out how to apply it, right? So I get this new job, and it was an entry-level position um with pretty low pay, kind of at the bottom of the totem pole, which was really hard for me to be there, knowing that, like, you know, where my identity used to come from, right? Success and and these things. And I was feeling like feelings of envy, uh, was looking at my colleagues as threats instead of partners. And I was like, okay, God, this is not where I want to be. And during that time, during my worship, I had read, like, humble yourself before God, and he will lift you up. And I was like, Okay, God, this is not who I am. This is not who I want to be. These are old, old lies, old thoughts coming back to me, right? And he's like, um, who are you? Like he asked me, like, who do you believe that you are? Um, and I went through all of Ephesians 1. I was like, and I was like, okay, there is no higher title, there's no greater position in heaven or earth than I can, that I could be than child of God, then daughter of the king, right? So just regrounding myself and my identity, um just freed me up. And he's like, now I just want you to serve. Just serve the people, serve the people on your team, serve your boss, like serve them and build everybody up. And like just regrounding an identity um was what I needed. And it's that that truth, right? It's the truth that we speak over ourselves that um like frees us up to be the person that God calls us to be. I couldn't just say NVO, like I'm not gonna be MBS anymore. So with this new identity, all of a sudden I had something to share. I couldn't stop talking about God, I couldn't stop sharing. I wanted to preach, I wanted to teach, I wanted to do all of the things, all the things that I was like, I did a lot of the stuff before um in church, but it always came with a lot of fear, right? It and it wasn't not that I didn't want to do it, I wanted to do it, but it was kind of like I'm supposed to do it. And now all of a sudden it was like I can't not do it. I can have to talk about this, I can't not share this. I want to teach as many people, I want to tell as many people as I can. I started praying over strangers, like I mean, just like I'm ready, like, and just completely freed me up to serve God in a way that I could have never done it before with the old identity, right?
SPEAKER_00:For sure.
SPEAKER_02:But I was still sick, and that was like, okay, why am I still sick? Um not only was I still sick, but some of the food reactions were getting worse. Like there was this event at church where um we were in a small room and there was a ton of kids, and they all opened, they all had bags of chips, right? And so they all opened up these bags of chips. So you've got like 50 bags of chips opened all with sunflower oil and so it was like dust. And I started having uh an anaphylactic reaction. I started, my throat started to swell up. But it feels kind of like you have a golf ball in your throat at first, like you're trying to get something out of your throat, and I was like, oh dang, I know what's happening. Um, so I left, I went out to my car, took a Benadryl, um, and just kind of waited it out until the symptoms went away. And then I just stayed out of the room, and things began to become even more isolating because now it wasn't just what he ate, it was what other people were eating that was affecting me. And so if I went to an event, I would have to leave the room if they were eating certain things, and it I was like, this is not who I'm supposed to be. And here I am listening to these other testimonies of people, and I'm like, okay, God, if you are setting them free from their bondage, I don't believe that you're gonna leave me in line. Like, I believe that you will set me free from my bondage as well. Because if you've ever been sick, you know it's bondage. So I was like, okay, God, I am I am ready to believe. I wasn't really ready to believe yet at the time, but so this is where you said, like, if you've had hope at one point, um, and then you kind of lose hope that it's hard to believe it again. So I had a friend pray over me um for healing, and she sent me a link with some teaching um about biblical healing, and she was the first person to send me a link about this, like on this topic. This was in September of 2021.
SPEAKER_00:What was the link? Do you do you remember who it was?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, it was um Andrew Womack.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And uh I didn't listen. I was skeptical. Um yeah, so I just I still have the text. I still have the text. I went back and looked at it and I showed it to her um after I started experiencing my healing, and she's like, I remember that. She's like, I remember praying over you. And I went home and I was like, God, she did not believe. And she's he's she's like, God just told me that's that's okay. Like you, I've got her, you've you did your part. It's okay. Uh so cool to go back and you know, yeah, it is see that see those moments. Um, but God didn't give up on me. Like later in that year, or the next year or whatever, I got another link from a different friend. Same thing, same ministry, biblical healing, teaching, and I was I didn't listen.
SPEAKER_00:You're protecting yourself.
SPEAKER_02:I was. And and not just protecting myself emotionally, but supposedly protecting myself spiritually, right? Like, what if this is of the devil? Like, what if it, you know, there's always those thoughts, those things that if you've been raised in a denominational church at all, you kind of have those, oh, if this is anything supernatural, it's gotta be evil, right?
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um so in the meantime, I'm trying this other approach to healing that was all based on neuroplasticity and cognitive behavioral therapy and exposure therapy and all these things, and you like committed an hour a day for six months to doing these like visualizations and different things. And it was like, supposedly this had worked for a lot of people. And honestly, there were some good things that came out of that because it taught me how to not think negatively. And you know, there are things that you do when you're sick, like they call it prophesying. It's not really prophesying in a biblical sense, but it's like, oh, if I eat that, this will happen. If I do this thing, this will happen. Like you have to stop doing those things, you have to stop body checking, you have to stop doing these things that keep you stuck in that thinking. So there's certain things like that that were good. Like I went from being like probably one of the most negative people in the world to like having a pause, have saying positive things, saying good things. So it did that for me, and it also got me to start having the hope. And that I think was what was really key. Um it allowed me to start visualizing things that maybe I could do again. Like maybe, maybe I would be able to go to a restaurant with my friends and eat. Maybe I would be able to go to spin class again and not get a migraine. Maybe I would be able to do these things again. And so it gave me, it opened the door to me to start believing that maybe some of these things were possible. And then in January of 2024, so 2021, September 2021, when my friend with this friend prayed over me. To January 2024, now a friend, dear group of friends gathered um together to anoint me and another friend for healing. They came armed with their oil and scriptures. One of my good friends um read beautiful scriptures over me, scriptures that I had never let sink in before, scriptures I had never believed before. Um and um shout out to all of those amazing people who came that day. I love you because this, you know, it's a very transformative moment in my life. But in the back of my head, there's this fear, right? Like this is the this is gonna sound so dumb, but like this was the last straw, because this is what James says to do, right? Gather the the elders of the church together and pray, um, have them anoint you and pray over you. And I thought there was this fear in the back of my head that if this doesn't work, there's nothing left. Like that was this lie in the back of my head.
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh, can we we just need to be fair for a second? In my faith background, when you go to anoint somebody, they're about to die. We don't practice laying hands on the sick for healing, we practice anointing people at the last moment. Okay, and so like all of all of the anointings where they've gathered the elders, it's like the person is on hospice. Oh, it's more and maybe you don't have that experience. Maybe you do. But it isn't like let's gather the elders to lay hands so there will be healing, because in the book of Luke it says that this will follow signs that these will follow signs of believers that they will lay hands on the sick and they will be healed. It's like let's anoint this person with oil, and then they usually die right afterwards.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that wasn't what we were doing.
SPEAKER_00:That wasn't what you were doing, but perhaps maybe an old mindset is if you go to anoint, this is what happens. Um maybe maybe I'm just telling a story, but that's in my faith background, that's usually what it is, is like, oh, we're gonna go do this, and and then it's like because a person has stage four cancer.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, I mean that that wasn't my mindset. My mindset was just like this was like my last hope. Like this, I've waited. It's almost like I waited to do this thing because it was the last thing. And if I did it and it didn't work, then there was nothing else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, then it's over.
SPEAKER_02:That was my thought process. And so I was scared to even go do this, to even have my friends anoint me. Um, and then it was like three days later, um, a friend of ours sent another link to my husband. Now, anybody who knows my husband knows him well, he's a little bit of a skeptic, not in a bad way. He's very cautious, very uh meticulous.
SPEAKER_00:He's a Berean.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I don't know exactly what that means.
SPEAKER_00:A Berean is the people that went, they had to check it out for themselves. They went to search the scriptures for themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, yes, absolutely. He and I are both that way, but he's like even more so than me. Um, so when my husband sends me this link and he says, you have to listen to this, I was like, okay. If it's coming from my husband and and I know he's cautious, I'm like, okay, I'll listen. And it was this testimony about this man who had this horrible cancer that had grown into this, like, I mean, it looked like a some sort of creature that had like tentacles all through his chest.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and he had documented his healing journey the whole way through, and he was healed from this thing. Oh like no treatment, nothing, and he was healed from this cancer. He's like, this is clearly true because it's documented. There's pictures, there's the whole thing. It was a seven-year process that this man went through. But I was like, okay, like I think I could, I think I could believe that. And so that was like a shark shifting, a turning point in my life. I was like, okay, got him ready. So God sends me this first teaching, like back in August of 2021, September 2021. And it's January 2024 when I'm finally like, okay, I'll listen. Like I look back and I'm like, oh dang, like God, you're so patient.
SPEAKER_01:Like, you're so like, uh, you know, when you're ready, I'm here for you when you're ready to come to me.
SPEAKER_02:Um so I I just look back and I'm like, God, you were pursuing me the whole time. Like, I believe that the second I prayed that prayer, it was answered. Like it was answered before I prayed it, right? Like it was, he was just waiting for me. He was just waiting for me. Um, I have some journal entries that I wanted to read. Um, so I started this journal. This is my healing journal. There was a point in time when I took this with me everywhere I went, and it was like my security blanket as I was going through this. It's full of scriptures. Um, as I so that one link was like the first link, and I just nonstop just started listening to biblical teaching on healing. And um, I started writing out scriptures, and by January 20, which is what, like 10 days later, I had like 15 pages of scriptures written. And this this is on January 20. My healing journey has been powerful so far. I'm learning that God is always good and always wants good things for his children. He bore our sins in his body so that we could be freed. He gave us his Holy Spirit with all of its power with all of his power and the weapons of faith, truth, righteousness, and the word of God in order to demolish strongholds. He destroyed the devil's work. He broke the power of him who holds the power of death. That's Hebrews 2.14, and he freed those who are enslaved by their fear of death. He has revealed to me that Satan no longer has any power in my life unless I give it to him. Jesus has given me his Holy Spirit, who lives in me and seated me next to him with him in the heavenly realms, far above all authority and power and dominion. I have learned that Christ has given me back authority through his precious blood and his precious Holy Spirit, and that I do that I do not have to allow the devil any power or influence in my life. That includes illness and symptoms. Jesus has set me free and sin has no dominion, authority, or power over me. Jesus has already healed me of all of my wounds, symptoms, and diseases. This is one of the benefits of being in Christ. That's Psalms 103, right along with being forgiven. Thank you, Jesus. I am claiming his promises, which are always yes in Christ, and realize my life, and I'm sorry, reclaiming my life. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. I am denouncing and rebuking symptoms by the power and authority of the Holy Spirit who lives inside of me and through faith in Jesus and in his name and by his blood. Already I'm sleeping better. Several nights of more than six hours, some seven hours. I'm eating more foods. You're gonna laugh at this. And eating more foods, crackers, soy sauce, carrots, whole wheat bread. Like you don't think that like those are the those are like victories. Huge victories. And receive only the good, the nutrients and the energy they provide. I do not agree that they are bad or that my body will react. Those beliefs and reactions are from the enemy and they are a lie. I do not receive them. God continues to renew my mind and take every thought captive. There are so many lies and fears I have bought into and have asked God to reveal and remove them all. One by one I denounce them and release them. I believe that Jesus has healed me by his wounds, that he has given me back the authority through his spirit, and then I do not have the have to allow Satan any place in my life or my home. The transformation has begun, and through the power of Jesus and His Holy Spirit, I am freed. I am healed, I am whole, I am loved, I am safe, I am chosen. Thank you, thank you, Jesus. I am amazed by the lavish generosity and love. The scriptures are true. You have given us all the fullness of God, your divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness. Like just in ten days, those were truths that were already starting to set in that and scriptures that everybody knows, right? But we don't believe. Like most of that came straight from the word of God. And February 3, like a few weeks later, I'm sitting in church. So that's what I believe, right? At this point, February 3, I'm sitting in church, I'm worshiping, and the Holy Spirit says to me, If you believe you're free, why are you still living like you're in prison? I was like, it's a good question. All right, I knew what he was talking about. So after church, I was like, Jerry, going to Olive Garden. That was kind of our restaurant before I got sick. I'm like, we're going to Olive Garden. And literally, the whole time, by now I've got another 15 pages of scriptures in my journal, right? And literally the whole time in the car, it's about half an hour drive, I am reading scriptures. I am reading. I'm like, okay, I'm speaking the word. Like brand new, first time, right? It was the first time I'm standing on my newfound faith. And I'm like, I'm gonna, I gotta believe the word. I gotta remind myself what the word says. I'm just like, okay, we're going, Lord. And uh this is this is what I wrote in my journal that day. Today I went to Olive Garden for the first time in years. This one's gonna make me cry. All the way there from church, I read passages of truth from this journal where I have gathered so many promises. It just hit me. I am free. I am not going to live like I am in prison anymore. He opened the door. All I needed to do was be willing to walk out of my prison. I needed to be willing to believe what he said in his word and trust him more than I trusted all the walls of protection I had put up to protect myself. I sat down at the table and opened the menu and told myself again, I am free. I looked at the menu and realized that because of Jesus, I was free to eat anything on the menu. I can't even explain the joy and freedom and release that came over me as I realized I was no longer restricted. I ordered whatever I wanted and I ate it with joy and Thanksgiving and praising Jesus. I had salad dust and dressing and parmesan cheese, I had breadsticks and ravioli and tasted some of Kate's smoothie. And I even had a chocolate mint. I had such a hard time deciding what to eat because it all looked so good. But then Jerry, my husband reminded me that I could come back anytime and have something different. All of a sudden I realized that I didn't have to hoard anymore. Because I would always have enough. Thank you, Jesus, for overcoming sickness and disease and freeing the oppressed. I don't have the words to express my gratitude. I love you so much. I believe, I believe that God said to me, I am if you're free, why are you still living like you're in prison? And today I release to God fear, orphan identity, and self-preservation so I can receive freedom and healing. So that was where I was at that point, like already just a few weeks in to seeing the word of God, that I was already starting to ex, you know, like receive this and walk it out. And I would love to say that like I was instantly freed from that plane and it was easy, but it's not because the enemy doesn't give up that easy. Um, because once he's got you in a stronghold, he's gonna test you, right? He's gonna he's gonna try to keep you there. Um uh so as we went into the spring of that year, I went through a super dark period where I had this dehabilitating insomnia, like weeks and weeks of two, three hour nights of sleep. Just I don't know if you've ever been so tired, you're like, all I want to do is sleep, but then to know that no matter what you did, you weren't going to be able to sleep. Um and I was at a point at this point where like I was already all in, right? I was already like the word of God is true. So at this point, if I'm doubting, then it's either all true or none of it's true. Like there was none of this. I'm gonna take some of the Bible and leave some of it. Like we tend to do, right? Like when we don't understand it or when our experience doesn't line up with the word, we just were like, I'm just gonna ignore this part. And that's what I've done all my life, but I was not, I was at a place where I was like, I'm all in or I'm all out. And thank God um he stuck with me. And I I I remember saying to my husband, like, I feel like the man that saw people like trees. You remember when Jesus laid hands on the blind man and he he's like, Do you see anything? And he's like, I see people walking around, but they look like trees, and that I was stuck in this place where I had experienced some freedom, I experienced some healing, but there were these other symptoms that were just tenacious and this would not leave. And um, I was like, God, why am I stuck here? Why am I stuck here in this place? And um he just impressed upon me, he's like, You keep digging it up. Planted the seed of truth in your heart, but every time you experience a symptom, you dig it out. You're like, is it really true? And you examine it, and you're like, every time you dig it out, you got you know, that's not gonna grow it when you dig up the seed. And I was like, Oh, okay. So that makes sense. I I am doing that. So I was like, okay, I will plant the seed back in my heart, and I'm gonna stand on the word, Lord, no matter what I face, no matter what I experience, I'm gonna stand on the word. Um, and my mantra became, God, I believe you. God, I believe you. Like anything. God, I believe you, God, I believe you, God, I believe you. We just constantly I would just speak it out loud. God, I believe you. And there was this one morning when I had like slept two hours and I had a huge day ahead of me. And I was like, God, I believe you. Like, I believe you. How am I gonna do this day? Like, there's still the practicality of how I'm gonna do this day. And the Holy Spirit just dropped a verse, not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord. I was like, okay, what does that mean? Like, how do I apply that? He's like, walk it out in the spirit. And I was like, okay, in the flesh, I've got nothing. In the flesh, I have no strength, no nothing. I'm sleep deprived to the max, but in the spirit I lack nothing. So I will do this day in the spirit. And I walked that day out full energy, full mental capacity, did every one of the like 20 things that I had to do, and I never even noticed my insomnia. I was like, that's it. That's this, that is walking in the spirit, like not. I believe that's what fasting is supposed to do for us, right? Like I would never encourage somebody to do deprive yourself of sleep for fasting. But it was kind of that same thing. It's like in the flesh, you realize that in the flesh, it's not it's not about your flesh, it's about the spirit. That's about the power that God gives you in the spirit. And that's very powerful. So now I don't have that. I don't have nearly as many um sleepless nights, but when I do, it's like, okay, God, walking this out in the spirit. But the funny thing is, is I realized the other day, I'm like, no, that should be every day. That should be every day, right? What whether you're sleep deprived or fully functioning in your flesh, we walk it out in the spirit. So I'm time is ticking here, but I have some stuff to share. Is that okay to keep going?
SPEAKER_00:I how do I want to do this? Yeah, I want I want you to share one thing here, and then I want you to do the teaching, and then at the end, I also want you to do one more thing. But you and I were at a place and there were people dealing with similar issues where food was controlling them. Yeah, like they they know who they are. They called me and texted me before they meet together and were asking, like, you know, what should I bring? What should I to and uh you ministered there? What would you say to somebody who's right now like food is their like dictating so much of their life and they want out?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think the first thing that I would share is what I've shared there, and that's just my testimony, but it's all based on scripture, and that's where I'm like, oh, which scripture do I have? Like, there's so many of them, right? I think there's so many scriptures, and I think that's what I'm about to go through. I have a couple of stories that I want to share that really illustrates this, but like I don't restrict my diet. I restrict my diet in the sense of I don't eat ice cream every day because I don't want to weigh 300 pounds, or I don't eat this thing because I don't think it's good for my body. So I choose basically like discernment, not fear what I want to put into my body, but I don't choose because I'm in bondage and that thing has control over me anymore. And so, um, so December 14, we go to In N Out. I know great, healthy, like not discernment, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it is discerning, it's delicious, it is delicious.
SPEAKER_02:We all have our moments. So, anyway, we go to In N Out. Um, I eat burger and fries, and we're headed up to the mountains to this Christmas program. And about 20 minutes down the road, I'm feeling symptoms. I'm like, oh dang. I ate some sunflower oil. Like, okay. Of course, memories of Valentino's Delincol, you know, are coming through my head. And I'm like, nope, I'm like, no, that is fear, that is of the enemy. The word says the word say, give me a minute. Um hang on a second. Psalm 103, but bless the Lord, oh my soul, and forget not all our benefit, all his benefits who forgives all my sins and heals all my diseases, who redeems my life from the pit and crowds me with love and compassion, who satisfies me with good and renews my youth, like the eagles. Like that's the truth. That's what the word of God says. That it is a benefit of being in Christ to be healed. Part of what he gave me, it's part of what he paid for his benefit. So I am in this car in my head, driving. I don't know how to drive or show that we're headed, quoting scriptures in my head, like quoting scriptures, praying, turn on the music, turn it up loud, praising the Lord, just praising the top of my lungs. I am free, I'm free. I'm right. Symptoms, not getting worse, but not going away, right? Like, so I'm I'm in this battle. So 20 minutes down later down the road, I say to my husband, like, words matter. Like, I'm gonna speak this out loud. So I'm gonna speak the truth out loud. I told him what was happening. There was a time when if I had told my husband that was happening, he would like freak out, like, you're gonna die. No, not anymore. Like he's walking in truth with me, right? Like, and so I'm like, no. And I said, I believe, I believe that Jesus paid for this. I believe that I am healed by his stripes, I am healed. Like, I believe that the truth of you know, all these things. And I said, Will you stand in agreement with me in faith that that this doesn't have power in my life? He's like, Absolutely, I stand in agreement with you. I'm gonna turn the music back around, we're praised, and we just uh and for me and for anyone who's been in a place where it's constant, like where you've been sick for a while, it's chronic. Like you have to, it becomes a part of your identity, right? It becomes a part of like just your thought pattern, like I gotta protect myself. And so it's really a lot of rooting out those thought patterns that are going on behind the scenes, and so that's what I was going through here. That's what I was doing is like rooting out those lies and trying to walk it out. Out. Um, so big a big thing for me is when I stand on a promise like Mark 11, where it says, have faith in God, whatever you say, if you whatever you ask of God, if you believe you have received it, it will be yours. Like if you believe you have received it, it will be yours. Whatever you say to this, whenever you say this mountain move, if you do not doubt in your heart, it will move. Like have faith in God. When I'm standing on a promise like that, I have to quote it and then try not to think about the symptom. Because if I focus on the symptom and if it's gone or not, it's not going anywhere. It's steady. And so I was like, okay, it's done. I stood on it, we stood in agreement. I prayed, like, I'm using all my arsenal because I'm new at this, right? I'm just using all my arsenal. I shoot the whole cannon at it. And we just went on up the mountain. We get up, we get there, we get so, and we're in there, we're watching the show, and all of a sudden I'm like, all right. Not any symptoms. He's gone. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord, but God is good. So I had been in this place up until this point where when I went to eat, I just didn't ask what was in the food. Because it was easier to not ask than to face the fear. Right? Because if you know that it's in the food and then you eat it, then it's a whole nother ball game to stand in faith. Because now I know that this is something. So a couple weeks later, we go back to In N Out, and this is the first time that I've stood up and faced the fear directly. And so my daughter, my daughter and I were sharing the fries. I was like, no, I know it has sunflower oil. Not because I read it, but because I experienced it, right? Like, no, so I'm eating the fries, she's eating the fries. She gets to the bottom of the fry bin, and in the bottom, and it's little paper cups, right? In the bottom, it says, She's like, Mama, I was like, What? She's like, Look, and it says in there, like, these fries are hand cut daily and fried in 100% sunflower oil. And I walked out of that that day with not one symptom. Not one symptom. And I'm like, okay. All right, God, your word is your word is true. Your word is good. But I think going back to your question of like what would you tell someone? It's so easy for us to think to ride the roller coaster, to think like, oh, because I have a symptom, I'm not healed. Like it must not be God's will, or I must not be healed. And that's what I was doing, right? When he told me, you're digging it up. You're digging up the seed every time. Um, and that's when I, you know, when I decided to be like, no, okay, I'm not gonna dig up the seed anymore. No matter what I'm looking at or feeling in the flesh, the truth is the truth in the word of God. And I'm standing on that no matter what I feel. That's when, and we do it already. Like anybody who's heard this the message of the gospel, right? That love reality teaches, you already do that, right? You already do that when it comes to your identity. It's the same exact thing that you know. Am I righteous? I don't look righteous, I don't feel righteous. I sinned today. Does that mean I'm not righteous? No, you're righteous because Romans 5.17 says that whoever receives God's abundant provision of grace and the free gift of righteousness will reign in life through Christ. Romans 5.17 says it's a free gift. So I'm righteous because God said I'm righteous, right? Like that's the truth. So whether I feel it or not, it's truth. And it's the same thing with healing. So just because you experience a symptom doesn't mean you're not healed. You stand on the word and and you keep going. I guess that's what I would say. But I mean, we're talking about I was in the word and still am in the word on the topic of healing daily. Like this was not a one and done thing for me, but that's because it doesn't have to be that way for everyone, but that's because I was so rooted in lies. And there were so many things that had to be retaught, not just from a scriptural standpoint, but from an experiential standpoint and from the like a limbic system standpoint of the memories that the brain holds. Um, and reteaching it that no, you don't have to react to this thing in this way just because you did last time, you can react in a new way to this thing now because the word of God says this. So that's I think that's been really key for me. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So no, I mean, that's huge, and I think you've come, I think we've all come a long way. Where before in in 2016, if I'm like, yeah, just believe what the Bible says, you'd be like, uh, yeah, I do that. And now in 2025, now you do that, and it started off with believing Ephesians 1, 3 through 6, or Romans 6, 7, or Romans 5, 8. And now when you read Psalms 103, where before the only thing that God cared about was our salvation, like he didn't even care about our happiness, he didn't care about it, and now you're like, oh, he cares so much about that that he's healed us. Um, and now we're just cashing that check in Jesus' name. And so now you have way more, like you you've changed how you think, which is, you know, when he says we're not conformed to the world, but we're transformed by the renewing of our mind, we're renewing our minds to the truth that if he has done it and says it, and because he has authority, it's true.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And and I'm still tempted, right? I was looking for my journal entry. I have one other journal entry, but like I was getting, I was ordering a sandwich from Panera. Uh, was for breakfast one day, and um, I looked, I look on there, it was like an egg white sandwich on like a whole wheat muffin or something like that, and I was like, oh I started, I put it in my box, I put it in my outbox, my my check, whatever you call it. Um and I was like, and then I was like, oh wait, this looks like it has sunflower seeds in it. And instead of just moving forward, this is after In N Out, like this is after I ate the fries. So, and I was like, Yeah. And so I looked and like, sure enough, it has sunflower seeds. I'll just make something in home. So take it out and I bought my cart and I go my and I just made something on my own. I wish I could find that. Um, oh wait, here it is. This is what I wrote, I think this is pretty important. Um, yeah, I already told you that part of it, but it was like, uh, okay, so in spite of the fact that I took this thing out of my cart and didn't eat it, I still reacted to the food that day. And I have been studying God's discipline. Like I wanted to understand God's discipline in the context of healing. Because you know, a lot of people will say, like, oh, you're sick because of this thing that you did, or because it's whatever, you know, and I'm like, I want to understand your discipline, God. And um the the verse that God gave me that day was Um, if if any of the lacks if any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask of God who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like the wave of the sea blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do. And it was specifically that verse that the Lord dropped into my heart. Like, the person who doubts should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. And I was like, ouch, message received, like I get it. Um, and what I wrote was, I do not, capital letters, believe that God took away my healing is discipline. No, I believe that the discipline was his correction. The truth, and the truth that I'm being double-minded and should not expect to receive anything from God when I doubt, like when I don't believe him. Um, that was his rebuke this morning. And then I put, I realize that some faithful faith for healing is harder than others. In the same book, James says, You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? When that faith for healing requires that you eat something that at one time could have killed you, eating said food is the type of deed that requires a significant amount of faith. Um, I realize that my lack of faith is not as much about me as it is about God. Do I really believe him enough to eat that sandwich? I've done it before, why not the other day? I have to trust God every day to walk in the fullness of healing that he wants to give me. Do I trust his word? If I only trust him some of the time, I'm double-minded and should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Message received, both the message about being double-minded and the message about God's discipline and instruction. Thank the Lord. I repent, I turn back, and I'm trusting you, Lord. I'm so very sorry. Let's go again. Like it's it's a daily walk. And some faith for healing requires, like, if you're there, if the Lord is telling you this is where you're at, you need to take the step like he did with me. Like that's hard, that's hard faith right there. That's the faith, that's the deeds. It's not some work, some believing God.
SPEAKER_00:Even in James, when he's talking about the works, faith without works is dead, the works are believing God.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. And if and I I knew this through my healing journey. I knew in the back of my mind that there was gonna come a time when my faith was gonna require me to eat this thing. And when was I gonna be ready for that? When was when was I gonna trust him enough to take that step? And that's hard. That is hard, especially it, you know, when you've had life-threatening reactions, it that's a hard kind of fate. You have to be ready. You have to know it's the spirit telling you it's time. Like, don't be like, oh, like I'm just gonna go eat that thing today. Like, no, you gotta you gotta know the word, you gotta stand on the word, you gotta know God, you gotta trust him and make sure the spirit, like if you're doubting, like, should I do it? Am I ready? Then you're not. Like, that's just walk with the spirit.
SPEAKER_00:Dan Moeller is always talking about how he doesn't like to know too much when he's laying hands on the sick. Yes. Like, if I know, like if you've gone to 400 doctors before, like, I don't need to know that because then I have to have more belief.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you gotta overcome all that.
SPEAKER_00:Like, just let's just be like children and believe God.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I got a couple things. One, I just want to say that I'm I mean, you probably can tell by my testimony, by my stories, that I'm walking in divine health right now. I still, I still the devil still attacks from time to time. I don't take any medication. I don't, I don't, I yeah, like, but when the enemy comes up, I you've seen how I deal with it, right? Like that's how I that's how I'm walking right now. But there are a few things that I stand on. I've shared with you a couple of them already. I want to try to quickly do the go through a few things because um if you honestly, if you're if you're dealing with sickness, these are critical to as a starting point. And I have tons of teaching. And if anybody wants to see my scriptures, I've already sent some of them out to some of the people that were there a few weeks ago. Um, but these are pillars that I think most Christians don't believe. That I wanted to share a few things, and I'm gonna try to do it fast. I've already shared Psalm 103 in Mark 11, um, 2 Corinthians 1 20, for no matter this is the NIV version, and I like this interpretation. It says, no matter how many promises God has made, they are yes in Christ.
SPEAKER_00:Yes and amen.
SPEAKER_02:And so through him, the amen is spoken by us to the glory of God. And I think that was one of the things that I had to overcome. I was like, well, that promise was to the children of Israel, that promise promise was it's not to me, it's not a promise to me. No, it says in 2 Corinthians 1 20, no matter how many promises he has made, they are yes in Christ. So if there's a promise in the word, it's yours because you're in Christ. So that's that was huge for me to be like, okay, this is this belongs to me too. So in Psalms 91, Psalm 90, Psalm 34, like these beautiful scriptures of promises, they're yours. They're mine. Major, major, major thing to believe. God is good all the time. God does not give us sickness. I don't even believe He's He allows sickness. I don't believe he says no to the healing. Um, he's always faithful, he's always good, he always keeps his word. Um, I've already shared one scripture about that. That about if you who are evil, give good gifts. Um James 1, I'll just show this. And do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Every good gift is from him, he never changes. So that's huge. Um, Psalm 34, taste and see that the Lord is good. Um, blessed is the man who takes refuge in him. Oh, fear the Lord, do his things, for those who fear him have no lack. The young lions suffer, want, and hunger, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing. Like that promise is yours.
SPEAKER_04:That promise is mine.
SPEAKER_02:Like these are promises in the word. This is one that's super hard. This next thought healing is always God's will. Like, people want to believe that because I have this thing or this person died or whatever, that must have been God's will that that person die. God did not send his son to suffer a brutal death and conquer death and face sin, you know, conquer the enemy, all the things. He didn't do that to give you death. He gave that to that to give you life. And so it's never, I believe that it is never God's will that we are sick. It's a result of sin, it's a result, it's a fruit of sin, it's a part of death, and that does not ever come from God. A couple scriptures, the thief comes only to steal, steal, kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it more abundantly. Jesus, time and time through John, he says, If I'm uh let me just pick one of these. Truly I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. Jesus, time and time again, and John says, I don't do anything without the Father. Well, what did Jesus do? He healed constantly every day. Yep. Acts 10, 38, how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, he went about doing good and healing all who are oppressed with the devil, for God was with him. So they're oppressed by the devil, he healed them all because God was with him. Like that tells us who the role, what the roles are right there, right? Sickness, the oppression comes from the enemy, the good comes from God, and Jesus healed them all. Um Jesus never said no. That's the third one. Jesus never said no. Find me a passage in the Gospels where it says that Jesus said, No, I think you need to carry this thing so that you can learn a lesson. No, no, you're not ready to be healed. You're, you know, whatever. Whatever the things that we say about God to make us feel better that I didn't receive my healing. Um, Jesus never said no. He never says no. Um, Matthew 8:14. That evening they brought to him many who were oppressed by demons and cast out the spirits for the word and healed all who were sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah. He took our illnesses and bore our diseases. I was prophesied about him that that is what he would do. Um Matthew 4 uh 23. He went up, he went through all out all Galilee teaching the synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people. So his fame spread, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, those having seizures and paralytics, and he healed them. I can I have a whole list of those verses. Like he healed everyone who came to him. I think people struggle with this one, but we read it in uh Psalm 103 that healing is a part of salvation. It is part of what God paid for on what Jesus paid for on the cross, and it's part of the Great Commission. The actual word so-zo means to save, rescue, preserve safe and unharmed, bring safely to, to cure, heal, restore to health, save, preserve from being lost, to deliver from or set free from. Like the actual definition of the word means to heal. Um, and so just realizing that healing is available as part of the atonement. We don't have to earn it, we don't have to beg it, we beg for it, we don't have to convince God to give it to us. Jesus came to give us that. He came to give us life and to destroy the works of the devil, and he already took those stripes on his back. Um, so it was part of what Jesus um paid for on the cross. So again, lots more verses I can share with you on that. Um the devil has no authority. I think people, I you know, it went about my life believing that I was just subject to whatever happened, right? Like the enemy runs around like a roaring lion, roaring lion, seeking who you may devour, right? So the devil really has no authority. Um when Jesus sent out the 72, um, he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Um every time he sent out, um, oh, I missed this from before. Every time he sent out the disciples, uh with it being part of the Great Commission, every time he sent out the disciples, he told them to heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons. It was a part of what they were supposed to do in spreading the gospel. And like what you said um from Mark 16, go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to all of creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be contempt, condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe. My name they will cast out demons, they will speak a new tongues, they will pick up serpents with their hands, and if I drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them. They will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. It's part of the Great Commission. It's just part of what we're called to do. And Jesus in John, what is it, 14, he says, You're gonna do the works that I did, and even greater works than these will you do. Um, Jesus says that the devil had been cast down, right? He's cast out of heaven and he has no authority. I love uh uh Revelation where it talks about um how he used to accuse us night and day before God. Um, and it hit me one day, I'm like, he can't do that anymore. He's been cast out of heaven, he can't even access God anymore. He can't even accuse me anymore.
SPEAKER_04:Amen.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and then I think probably one but and I'll I'll end with this like, probably one of the hardest things for me to accept is that I have authority, right? We're taught like God's in authority, we're obedient, we're the servants. Um, but for me to kind of come around to this idea of having authority has been really hard. Um and I was asking God about it one day, and I was like, okay, God, what teach me my position? And I don't mean like when the disciples were arguing over who was the greatest, you know, who's the greatest, but like, um, who am I? Like, who am I in the body and what authority do I have in your kingdom? And he took me to Ephesians and um started with Ephesians 6, right, where he says the battle is not against flesh and blood, it's against the powers and of spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. And so, you know, we think when we're sick and we're feeling symptoms that the battle is here, the battle is in the body, and he tells us it's not the bottle, body battle is not against flesh and blood, it's against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. And I was like, Okay. And then he's like, okay, let's go back to Ephesians 1, where it says, You have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. Like, okay. And then he's like, okay, later in Ephesians 1, Paul praises prayer, right? I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, that you may know all of these things. Well, one of the things that he prays for them is that you may know the incomparably great power for those who believe. And that power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at the right hand in the heavenly places. Okay, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion in every name that is invoked, not only in the present age, but also in the one to come. Okay. Ephesians 2, 6. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly places. I was like, okay, God, what are you telling me? Like all of this stuff is happening in the heavenly places, which I used to think meant that means I don't get it till heaven. But no, he's what he opened up to me was that this is happening, this battle is happening in this heavenly places, and that's where we fight this battle, and we have authority there. So that night I went to bed and I laid down and I like just pictured myself. And I'm looking around, and it's the body of Christ, like all the body is around, is around me. And I look over and there's Jesus and there's God. I'm like, man, this is cool. Like, I'm in the heavenly places, right? And I look down. Um, and below me are all of the powers of evil, like far below. And like this, this is my position. Like, this is where I am in the body of Christ, and this is where the battle is fought. In fact, this is where the bottle, the battle has already been won, and the enemy has no power, the enemy has no authority. And I was like, okay, God, I believe you. Like, I believe you. That's my new theme. I believe you. And uh, he took me back to Ephesians 6 again and about the armor, right? And just like we've got this armor, and we we read that passage and we read it in passing, um, like it's some sort of metaphor. Like it doesn't really mean that much. But the reality of it is, and what we've all come to learn, is like, I gotta put on my helmet of salvation, right? If I doubt that I'm saved, I'm exposed. My head, my mind, my thoughts are exposed to the enemy's eyes. If I doubt the gospel, a gospel of peace that shows that we're reconciled to God, like I'm missing a part of the armor. Um, the belt of truth, which gives identity. I heard somebody preach once on um that Roman soldiers, their belt was what like showed who they were as a Roman soldier. I'm like, okay, that belt of truth is like my identity. And I think the hardest one for us is the breastplate of righteousness, right? Like God gives us this gift of righteousness, but we refuse to put it on. We're like, no, I'm not, I'm not righteous. I and then we don't receive that gift, but when we don't put on the breastplate of right, breastplate of righteousness, we're exposed. Our heart is exposed to the arrows of the enemy. So if you're tempted to think like I'm not righteous, like just put it on, just put on the breastplate. It's okay. Like protect yourself from the enemy.
SPEAKER_00:Romans 5 says, Grace reigns in righteousness. Yeah, the power of God reigns in righteousness. Yeah. So if you don't believe you're righteous, where's the power?
SPEAKER_02:There's no power. And and then the enemy can just continue to condemn you, right? Because you're not righteous, you don't believe it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and then the shield of faith says you can extinguish every flaming arrow of the evil one. Not one, not two, not some, every flaming arrow. So that means every lie, every symptom, every anything that that devil tries to shoot at us. Um, that shield of faith can extinguish everything. And I remember asking God, I'm like, okay, I believe I have authority. How do I enforce it? Like, okay, the enemy comes up. I can like, what how do I he comes to steal, kill, and destroy? Criminals don't obey the law. How do I enforce it? How do I enforce it? Like, I think of um Colossians 2, where it says the legal indebtedness against me has been canceled. And I'm like, okay, he has no legal right to my body, he has no legal right to attack my body because Christ has set me free from that, right? How do I enforce it? He's like, He, yeah, like the only, what's the only offensive weapon that we have in the armor, and that's the word of God. That is the word of God, and that is our sword. And so to be able to extinguish the arrows with the shield of faith and attack with the word, and it's exactly what Jesus did, right? It is written, it is written, he did it over and over, and that's how he defeated the enemy. And so he's given us everything that we need, he's given us the tools and the army, he's already won the battle. Um, he's given us, he's given us everything. We don't need anything else. Um so when we ask for healing, when I asked for healing that day, he he'd already given it to me. And that was one thing that I noticed as I thought about as I looked back, and I'm like, you know what? As I look back on my journey and I see the different things that have brought me to where I am today, I'm like, God never moved. God was in the same position with the same promises, willing to give me whatever I would be willing to receive, whatever I would be willing to believe and receive from him. He was ready and willing to give it to me, and he was just waiting for me the whole time to come to him and believe him. And he was just there, just studying. And I think that's a pretty cool picture of God.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:As you can tell, I could go on for hours and hours, but I am done. I'll stop.
SPEAKER_00:Well, this is how I wanted to finish, and obviously, or I'm super grateful for you telling your story, and I think it's gonna change people's lives. But I want you, if you have a Bible in front of you, I want you to just read, and this is what I asked you to do the other day when we were together. Uh, read Psalms 103 and probably to 13, and that's how we'll just end the episode. And if you're listening and you're wondering what's for you and what isn't for you, like this is God's heart for his kids.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's changing.
SPEAKER_02:And every promise is yes in Christ. Bless the Lord all my soul. All that is within me, bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and forget not all his benefits. The benefit of being in Christ, who forgives all your iniquities, who heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from destruction, and crowns you with loving kindness and tender mercies, who satisfies your mouth with good things, so that your youth is renewed like the eagles. The Lord executes righteousness and justice for all who are oppressed. He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the children of Israel. The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will he keep his anger forever. He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor punished us according to our iniquities. For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward those who fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father pities his children, so the Lord pities those who fear him. For he knows our frame, he remembers that we are dust.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much, Shannon.