#248 Jonathan and Torie, Breaking Legalism: Love, Mission, And The Gospel That Actually Changes Lives

We share how a rule-shaped faith gave way to a Spirit-led life. Torie’s steady devotion and mission work collide with Jonathan’s raw honesty about addiction, and together we discover that grace, not effort, breaks chains and heals shame.

• growing up Adventist, performance and reputation
• mission years in Bolivia, language and leadership struggles
• COVID challenges, visas, and resilience
• Jonathan’s curiosity, partying, and rebaptism tension
• legalism vs grace, confusion and burnout
• the vulnerable email about porn and shame
• gospel reframes in Romans and the epistles
• freedom from law as Spirit-led life
• community that feels like heaven on earth
• loving counsel to our younger selves

Chapters

• 0:00 Show Open: Transformation Stories
• 3:26 Meet Tori: Faithful Upbringing
• 10:46 High School, Rules, And Reputation
• 20:51 Tori’s Mission Call To Bolivia
• 34:01 Language, Kitchens, And Calling
• 46:41 Returning, COVID Hurdles, And Residency
• 1:00:51 Jonathan’s PK Life And Curiosity
• 1:14:31 Rebellion, Guilt, And A DUI Scare
• 1:27:31 Southern, Partying, And Mission Nudge
• 1:41:31 Bolivia Breaks Him Open To God
• 1:55:31 Legalism In Belize And Confusion
• 2:09:01 Persistent Porn Struggle And Despair
• 2:20:51 Tori’s Gospel Shift: Law And Spirit

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 1:06

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29

I'm like, I was just like, yo, this is not, this is not the deal, God. I was like, you gotta take care of people. And then, and then um after that, like one of my oldest friends, like, I mean, I've known him since I was like six, his brother died in a car accident. And I'm like, this is not the deal. I was like, God, people are not doing all right in the States. What's up? And then um, I start having dreams that my dad's dead, and it's like vivid dreams that my dad has died. And I like so bad that I'm like weeping. I'm telling my director, my dad's dead, I have to go to town to get service. Like, I know that he's dead, and like I'm going to town, nothing. My dad's chill, he's fine. I'm like, this is crazy. And the director's like, dude, I think the devil's coming after you. And I was like, he's like, what's going on in your life? And I'm like, no, nothing. I'm everything's good. Like, not me trying to sober up over here. We're all chill, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:20

Yo, welcome to the Death Alive podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's episode is with Jonathan and Tori. And I got to meet them when I was up in Holland, and they're like my favorite already. It was so awesome to hear their story, so awesome to hear their heart. And they got up and they testified in front of a bunch of people because I put them on the spot. Just hearing that, I was like, I need to know more. We got the whole story. It's good, it's a little, it's not short, but it's worth it. Uh, just to hear what God has done in Jonathan's life and in Tori's life. So you'll be blessed. So uh this is Jonathan and Tori. Buckle up, strap in. Love y'all, appreciate y'all.

SPEAKER_03: 3:09

Oh, and it's not for kids. But these never are for kids. So you already know.

SPEAKER_00: 3:16

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 3:18

You don't know?

SPEAKER_00: 3:19

I have no thoughts. So whoever you want to start, get started.

SPEAKER_04: 3:23

Let's uh let's let's do this, Tori. Where where are you from?

SPEAKER_00: 3:28

What?

SPEAKER_04: 3:29

Where are you from? It broke it cut out at the most in our floor tuning moment. Okay. My bad. Where where are you from, Tori?

SPEAKER_00: 3:38

I am from Phoenix, Arizona.

SPEAKER_04: 3:40

You're from Phoenix, Arizona? And where where where would you say your your spiritual life story starts?

SPEAKER_00: 3:48

Um, I mean I was raised in an Adventist family, so I feel like I could say that it starts like at birth.

SPEAKER_04: 3:54

I don't know. Yeah.

unknown: 3:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 3:57

Adventist family. And good childhood, love the Lord.

SPEAKER_00: 4:04

Yeah. Um, I feel like I grew up in a pretty healthy um church culture and church environment. Um felt like my parents were pretty level-headed. Um we had like I was like, I was probably the youngest of like our church youth group. So I do feel like as I was growing up, like everything that I saw that I wanted to do. So like we had an adventure group by I was in like I was a busy bee, and then I was an adventurer. And by the time I got to like Pathfinder age, like there were only like a couple other people that were in the same age range as I was. So everybody else was like a little bit older. So my sister's two years older, and she was kind of even on the younger side of the whole like youth group. And so they all like went through Pathfinders and finished, and then there was like I was never like I did the Busy Bees, I did the adventures, and I I never got to be a Pathfinder because I wasn't old enough. And everybody just like graduated out of it. Like I started going to the youth Sabbath school and the youth events. My mom did sound and lights for all the things, so I went to all of them probably at like eight or nine years old. Like I was definitely not like youth age, right? But hung out with all of the things because that was like the age, like those were the people that were there, and there was nobody else that was really in my age range to be there.

SPEAKER_04: 5:21

So let me ask you this question. There's a certain age where where kids start complaining. They're complaining about their parents, they're complaining about the rules, they're complaining, complaining about the school. And I don't know when it really starts. Maybe in the summer between sixth and seventh grade. I don't know. Somewhere around there, like your teacher is your friend before that, and now the teacher is your enemy after that. When they started complaining in your life, were you also complaining? Or were you like, what's so bad about this, guys? I love our teacher. Like, where were you on the complaining side?

SPEAKER_00: 6:00

You said like you said like sixth or seventh grade, and I was like, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. My teacher was my idol, she was my best friend. I wanted to stay after school, I wanted to tutor it, like I wanted to grade for her. I was the teacher's pet, and I wanted to be the teacher's pet.

SPEAKER_04: 6:16

But weren't there kids complaining?

SPEAKER_00: 6:19

I mean, probably, but like I was also friends with a lot of goody two shoes. So we were all just in the club of being the favorites and perfect.

SPEAKER_04: 6:30

Okay, so then when you get to high school, when they're complaining there, were what did you ever join in? Were you ever like, yeah, mean people suck? Like, we like we we why are they taking our our fun? Were you ever like that?

SPEAKER_00: 6:46

Or were you always like yeah, yeah. No, you did? I mean, like, I still wanted to keep like I had a very good because Jonathan's like that now. I had a very good reputation and I wanted to keep a good reputation and that kind of thing. But um, my sophomore year of high school, like my sister was a senior, we both went to boarding school um in California, and I was friends with all of her friends. Like, I came in as a freshman, I was too cool. I again I had spent my whole life hanging out with people older than me. So, like even now, people will be like, assume that I was born a year before or a couple years before I was, just because like I was always just trying to act more mature and more on top of it to like fit in with like older groups. So I come in as a freshman and I was like thought that I was way cooler than my entire class. Um, and so I hung out with my sister and all of her friends that were juniors, and then they became seniors and I was friends with all of them, and then I was like, wait, they're all gonna graduate. And I'm like, I'm not going to, I'm still gonna be stuck here. And so that was kind of my like, mm, I don't like boarding school anymore. I want to have more freedom, I want to have more independence, I want to move home and have a car and be able to come and go as I want. And granted, I went to a very chill boarding school anyways. Like we had our phones, we had technology.

SPEAKER_04: 8:04

Isn't it interesting that when you think you should be further ahead or with different people, that's kind of a sign of immaturity?

SPEAKER_00: 8:16

Yeah, like I look back on my freshman year, I'm like, hmm. Like I did hang out with those people and I genuinely feel like they liked me, but at the same time, I'm like, yeah, I was not there.

SPEAKER_04: 8:27

Isn't maturity just like living in the now, being present, enjoying life? And like when I was a kid, like same exact experience. My brother was two years older. He went to college. We went to visit him at Union his first year, my me and my twin sister. And when we came back to school, to our high school, we were like, huh, lame. All these people don't know. Like, we were just at college this weekend. We went to the college basketball game, like they don't really know. Uh, we really needed to be in high school for two more years.

SPEAKER_00: 8:55

Like, we really needed for sure. I was definitely not ready for college. And um, I was like researching different schools. I like wanted to go to school out on the East Coast. I wanted to um I want well, originally I wanted to move home um and I wanted to have a car and I wanted to have my own independence, but I didn't want to go to the same Adventist school that I had been going to when I was in elementary school because all my friends went to that high school, and I just I didn't want to like I had already made the big step of like, oh, I'm leaving this and going somewhere else. So it was like, well, if I come back as a junior, that's just like pathetic. So I was like, I need to go somewhere different. And then um, yeah, my parents were kind of like, over our dead bodies, will you not go to an Adventist school? So that's not gonna happen. So then I was like, well, what other boarding school can I go to? Researching in like Washington and New York and just all over the place.

SPEAKER_04: 9:46

And um Did you feel like because like when I was a college recruiter, I would tell kids, don't be telling people where you're gonna go. Because if you say, I'm going to Southwestern and you live in Collegedale, like when it comes down to it and you don't want to leave, you want to go to Southern, but like you said you were gonna go to Southwestern, you you can't, you have to have like there's so much pride that you end up going to Southwestern and then coming back second semester to go back to Southern. Were you like, I'm out of here? And so you had like there was a little protection that you had to keep looking, even if you wanted to stay?

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

Yeah, well, I didn't really want to stay. Um, and you can tell that like last year we were going through just a fun random afternoon activity would be to go through each other's old yearbooks. Um, and everybody in my sophomore year yearbook was writing about how I was leaving. You know, we're gonna miss you so much. Like I was committed to I will not be back here next year. And um, yeah, I I went back the next year. So I didn't leave.

SPEAKER_04: 10:54

Up to graduation, was God, were there any questions about God, or was God just like, yeah, it's good? And the people that were struggling with spiritual life or religion and all that, you were like, Why are you guys struggling, or were you with them?

SPEAKER_00: 11:08

Um, I feel like I was in a place of like constant trying to do better, trying to get my like devotions on track, trying to be more consistent, trying to um like I I really do feel like my heart was in the right place of like wanting everybody's like, we need to, you know, get to know God. We need to be closer to God, we need to learn more things. And I wanted to do that. Um, but I was having a really hard time finding consistency in that. And so, like, I remember being part of a Bible study group um in the girls' dorm that was like 10 out of 10. Still, when I look back on it, um, nobody in there was walking in freedom, but it was still just like the presence and the environment of like getting to know people um and getting to know Christ together was really impactful for me. Um, I think that yeah, I wanted to know God more and more, um, but I just feel like I didn't have the tools to do it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04: 12:11

Have you ever heard uh I'm sure you've heard of Morris Venden, correct? Adventist preacher in the 70s was actually preaching gospel. Okay, he was a big deal. And he wrote a book called It's Who You Know. And the whole point is this that it isn't about perfection, it's about a relationship. And so I read this book and I was like, oh shoot, it's just about having a devotional life, and then I didn't have a good devotional life. So it was like, it's like, oh, it's easier than I thought, and it still was hard. Like, was your life like kind of like I need to get my devotional life right? Doesn't it seem like if we just get our devotional life right, we're gonna be okay?

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

Yeah, it was like if I can just wake up a little bit earlier and read every day, if I can just memorize these scriptures, if I can just um spend more time in prayer when I'm not falling asleep, then like it'll it'll go it'll go better. But like as a whole, like I enjoyed, I enjoyed going to church, I enjoyed chapels, I enjoyed worship, like I enjoyed and wanted to be involved in all of the different like like I wasn't in like a rebellion against God. I really just wanted freedom, I guess, to be to have that connection and to know how to have and to understand that the Holy Spirit was living in me and guiding me.

SPEAKER_04: 13:37

We'll see what happens. Uh I'm gonna switch over here to Jay Jonathan. Jonathan Benson. Jonathan, where are you from, bro?

SPEAKER_02: 13:46

Uh kind of all over the place. My dad um was a pastor growing up, so we've I grew I was born in Montana and then kind of moved around and then moved to Michigan when I was six. And you've been in Michigan since then? Kind of. Uh as soon as I went to college, I went to Southern, then I went overseas for a couple years. But where's home? Uh, you know, before I married Tori, I would say it's wherever my bag is, because that's kind of I lived out of my car pretty much. Just um but now uh home is back in Michigan, I guess.

SPEAKER_04: 14:19

So growing up, your dad's an Adventist pastor. Is all the stereotypes true about being a pastor's kid? Tell tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02: 14:26

So there's two versions of the stereotype. So when I was a kid, everybody was like rebellious and trying to just break out of all that mess.

SPEAKER_04: 14:35

What is rebelliousness as a kid? Is it like I'm gonna read a book that I shouldn't read?

SPEAKER_02: 14:41

Like as a kid, it could be like, I don't know, I might say this veggie swear word frick instead of saying, Oh my goodness, or something like that, you know. Um but like, you know, as you get older, like I mean, I remember when I was in middle school, one of my friends that was maybe three or four years older than me got a girl, like pastor's kid got a girl pregnant, and it was like, oh shoot, that was a big deal. How old were you when your buddies in I was like 13, 14, so he was like 17, maybe something like that. And it already that's that's big time, I would say. Yeah, it was it was it was pretty big. Um it was kind of just like we wanted to be like I think the pastors' kids all really wanted to be cool, and at that time religion didn't seem cool, and so a lot of pastors' kids were kind of just like, eh, we're just gonna drop that. And is religion cool now? I mean, I think it's cool.

SPEAKER_00: 16:51

I mean, I think my religion with God is cool.

SPEAKER_04: 16:55

Oh, yeah, that's not religion. Religion uh religion's still whack. Like if religion defined as like doing something to get something, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like now there are religious activities that are edifying and a blessing, and you would say, Well, that's a religious activity, but religion gives me the ick, right? I don't know about you guys.

SPEAKER_02: 17:17

There's like that side, and then there's the other side where like now I I don't want to, I'm not trying to judge anybody, but I'll say like these younger generations of pastors' kids now, it seems like the tide is turned to where they um feel the calling to be like the most spiritual and the most holy and stuff like that. So it's it's kind of like it really just depends on like the generation, is what it seems like. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 17:40

So you you wanted to be a little rebellious?

SPEAKER_02: 17:44

Yeah, I I wouldn't say I wanted to be rebellious. My whole thing growing up was I was incredibly curious, and um I didn't feel like that was the worst thing. I was like, I mean, I don't know, I'm curious. So I never like uh rebellious. I feel like the rebellious kids didn't care if they got caught. I cared if I got caught. I was I was super sneaky, like nobody was gonna catch me doing it.

SPEAKER_04: 18:08

So when did you when did you start your sneakiness?

SPEAKER_02: 18:11

Man, when we were kids, I think like like simple things like I mean, I would like hold a girl's hand and start talking to start chatting up the girls when I was in like middle school, like like maybe elementary school actually, you know, and then and then into like high school, like my parents, they were like, movie theaters are bad, don't go there. You know, your angel won't go in with you. You're like, I'm going, I'm seeing Toy Story 3, whether you hit the city. There's a bowling alley right by the theater, so we just tell my parents, oh, we're going bowling, and we watched movies all throughout high school. And I mean, I didn't bowl once. We we would joke, we were like, Man, we better go practice because we're gonna play with our parents and suck, and they're gonna be like, aren't you guys like pros?

SPEAKER_04: 18:50

You know that Ellen White is against bowling alleys as well. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02: 18:54

I it's just it's just how things roll out, you know. Yeah, different levels. So you did you go to boarding academy? Yeah, so okay, so I I did elementary school, and like during elementary school, um, we had a really tight crew. There was like um the the it was a little small little private school, you know, from the church and everything like that. And like the kids were I I want to say like probably 90, 95% of the kids had came from like two parent homes. Everybody like everything was the nuclear family was intact, everything was super good. I had a lot of great friends. Um so we I did that, and then my sister really struggled a lot younger than I did. She felt like it was her responsibility to kind of like break the family or like break the parents down a little bit. So she kind of went a little crazy. She's got a story maybe someday she can share, but uh um because of that, when it got time for her to go to high school, my parents did not want to send her to boarding school, and it was time for my dad to move because they moved pastures a bunch. So um they ended up moving my family up near the boarding academy, and we lived like seven minutes away or something like that. So you were boarding academy, but I was what they call village. Village. You know, we live nearby.

SPEAKER_04: 20:10

So did the rules of the boarding academy did it lend itself to you being sneakier, or did you see the beautiful rationale of these rules and you were like, I'm going to fall in line with these beautiful rules at this boarding school here?

SPEAKER_02: 20:24

No, no, it it uh definitely didn't work out the way they planned it. Um it was just like don't get don't get caught, you know. Like you can have a good time, and like there was little to no guilt because I didn't see any of the reasons for any of the rules. As I broke the rules, there was no guilt. Like it was just like whatever. Like these rules are silly, so they're silly anyway, so why would I? So we just sneak around, do our thing, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 20:49

So this isn't like the stuff you weren't doing isn't like public school rebellious, it's just like boarding school rebellious.

SPEAKER_02: 20:55

No, not most, not mostly, no. And in fact, like my my crew that I went to high school with and stuff, um, I want to say like 50% of them got expelled before my senior year. Like it just every year we lost a couple more and a couple more and a couple more.

SPEAKER_04: 21:10

Was it easy to get expelled, or was it like they held a girl's hand and they're gone?

SPEAKER_02: 21:14

No, no, actually, at that time it was not it was not that easy to get expelled. So they they earned it. Like they like, yeah, like you, you're you're like smoking pot or drinking or you know, having sex or something like that. And so they met it. But at that time, it was actually not that difficult because you could just write an apology letter, and most of the time they let you back in and you'd be in the DAIRE program and you know, stuff like that. Somehow, I don't know, all the way throughout high school, except for my senior year, like none of them let me in on any of it. Like, I never really asked, I was too focused on like girls and stuff like that to get into all the other mess.

SPEAKER_04: 21:49

Were you vicariously living through them?

SPEAKER_02: 21:52

Nah, I like they didn't tell me the stories, they didn't like they were all in the dorms, they were doing their thing. I was village, so I was doing my thing. So, like we would hang out, we were homies and stuff, but like it'd be like, Oh, I guess he got expelled for this. And it's like, oh, I didn't actually know that was going on, you know. So um, so up until my senior year, yeah, I didn't I didn't really partake in any of that stuff, and I was like, it wasn't. Oh, what happened senior year? Senior year I started getting involved in more stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 22:22

So how'd you feel about that?

SPEAKER_02: 22:25

Fine. I was curious, man. I was just like, my my my thing growing up was like my mom was my mom and I love my parents to death. If mom mom and dad bless them, they're the best. I I don't hold anything against my parents, everything's fine. Like we're all great. But like growing up, like um my mom had a little bit more of the rod mentality, and uh and so yeah, it was just like you know, just keep it quiet and don't get don't get caught and it'll be good, you know. So um I but she would say stuff like don't do this and don't do that. And I always thought in the back of my head, I'm like, man, my mom's a goodie two shoes. Like, how does she know? Like, she don't know, she's never smoked a joint, like she's never drank alcohol, you know. Like I doubted she had premarital sex. I don't know. Like, I don't know her life, but I'm just like I don't see that. So I'm like, so I'm like, she's saying these things, she's saying there's consequences. I don't see the consequences, I just see fun. So, you know, I'm gonna go try it out for myself, basically.

SPEAKER_04: 23:27

So there was no guilt.

SPEAKER_02: 23:30

Not really, no, not in high school or not, not really in college either.

SPEAKER_04: 23:33

Tori's feeling guilty right now.

SPEAKER_00: 23:37

I 100% would have felt guilty if I was in his situation, though.

SPEAKER_04: 23:41

Like, oh, I would have felt so I never I've never done anything. I never've never smoked, I've never drank anything. I don't, I've never tasted coffee. Like, that's how goody two shoes I was, and so I would vicariously live through my buddies.

SPEAKER_00: 23:56

I will say that I like had experiences like that later on, but in high school or like anytime around that, it would have been like appalling to me of like these people are doing these things. How dare they?

SPEAKER_02: 24:08

No, and like it started early, like even in like middle school, I started dating girls, like whatever that version was. And my parents were like, You're not allowed to have a girlfriend. And I like was pretty straightforward, like, this is my girlfriend, and they would and like they just gave up on that one, I guess, or something, because they're like, Okay, like this isn't working. I never heard them be like, you have to break up with her now, you know. It was kind of just like, well, I guess he's decided to do that, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 24:33

Yeah, what can you do? One of my best friends growing up, and he has uh twins that are like a year older than my daughter. My daughter's turning 13 next month in like a couple weeks. And we're just like, what are we gonna do if they're gonna want to date? And we're just like, we just let's just stand against it, and then when they do, we'll probably just be like, nah, okay, but we stand against it for a while. Yeah, like because what can you do?

SPEAKER_00: 25:02

Which is like so different from how I grew up because my mom was always like, Oh, yeah, I had my first boyfriend in second grade. I'm confused why you're a sophomore in high school and still haven't dated anyone. Not that she like wanted me to, but I think she just expected because she was very boy crazy that she would have children that were married.

SPEAKER_04: 25:19

She's like, What about Fred over there? He's a good looking guy.

SPEAKER_00: 25:23

And I was like, No.

SPEAKER_02: 25:26

Well, and my parents were like, my parents were like the opposite. It was weird, like they would say, like, no dating, but then like I we had very limited conversations on what dating is, what sex is, what you know, what porn is, like what like any of that stuff was it was fairly limited, and like I would say half that's on me because I never I never had the relationship with them to like actually uh go and ask them. I just felt like I'll just figure it out, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 25:54

It's a little like I'm gonna jump on my soapbox right here. To anybody listening, talk to your kids about sex and talk to them about it early. Like you wanna be the one teaching them about this. Like the world is going to teach them all of this wild stuff, the world wide web is gonna teach them all this wild stuff. Like, my art, my kid, she's gonna turn 13. I have another kid who's gonna turn 10. And we talk to them about it. We don't want it to be weird, and like we move through the awkwardness, and we're like, Yeah, it's gonna be awkward, it feels awkward, but this is like it's not worth it for us to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 26:31

Yeah, we just never made it past that awkward stage, you know. So it was like, well, we're we're just gonna ask a buddy or something, you know. Oh no, we gotta talk about it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:40

Yeah, my mom was very open to the point that I didn't want to ask questions because I knew. I knew they would I wasn't curious. I was okay in the innocent little naive bubble. And um my dad was graphic.

SPEAKER_04: 26:58

My dad was graphic and not in the way you think he was graphic. He's a doctor, and he would describe it like very he's like, Well, it's called an erection, and blood flows to the penis.

SPEAKER_02: 27:11

And we're like, Exactly what that's exactly what you would read in like fifth grade out of the room. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 27:18

My mom would be like, Tonus, stop. That's too much, that's too much. And we were all crying, like holding our ears, like, no, don't tell us another thing. I think that's the way you gotta start it. They gotta be crying. It's gotta be crying. There has to be crying. You didn't talk to them enough about it unless there are tears. Okay, so you uh you didn't feel guilty, you were trying these things.

SPEAKER_02: 27:41

Um there was a time when I felt guilty when I was like really young. I remember having a conversation with my dad, and I was trying to get this whole gospel thing, and I remember having a conversation with him where I had done something wrong. Being the middle child, like I have an older sister and a younger brother. Being a middle child, you really want to do everything perfect because otherwise you don't really get noticed, or it felt like that sometimes. So, like, I was like the best in school, I was the most athletic, I was the most musically talented. I was like, you know, I I was trying to, I was trying to hit every single thing perfect, but then like on the down low, like do whatever I wanted to do in the background for me, you know. So I remember when I was a kid talking to my dad one time, like I got caught messing up doing something. I don't even know. And I was just like, I felt like the gospel that I had been told growing up was like God is there, he is watching every single moment with a a pen and a piece of paper.

SPEAKER_04: 28:36

Why is it raining, Daddy? Because God is crying at something that you did.

SPEAKER_02: 28:41

And I remember having a conversation with my dad one time and being like being like, I just feel like it's I feel like it's permanent. Like, I feel like it's permanent. Like, and my dad's like, no, no, no, like he can erase that stuff and it's fine. I'm like, dude, it feels permanent to me, man. And I remember having that conversation, and in the end, I just kind of felt like he was trying to share gospel with me, but at the end of it, like the the church won. Like everything I heard from church kind of just outshine my dad, and it was just like, nah, dude, like he's up there and he's ready to grill you. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 29:19

So when you when you got drunk for the first time or when you were high, like were you like they these things aren't that bad? Why are they like they're holding out on us?

SPEAKER_02: 29:31

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. No, like so, yeah, and yeah, pretty much. That I would say, I would say that's it. And I like I went and do it with my buddies, like we all chatted before we got involved. Um we're like, all right, we're all curious, we're gonna try it out. But like this is just a time, like we're not doing this for the rest of our lives, you know. We're just gonna experiment and then we're gonna get out. And, you know, like a couple arrests later and stuff like that. And I was like, I need to get out.

SPEAKER_04: 29:58

Like a couple arrests later that moved quickly.

SPEAKER_02: 30:02

Yeah, yeah. Not me, but like multiple of my friends got arrested, and it was like, I I was like, all right, it's time to get out of this stuff. And um, you know, sometimes they were like, nah, it's it's good, we're good. And I'm like, all right, well, you know, at that point, God has got a you know started started setting me on the right path. And so I was like, Yeah, I think it's time for me to be done. So but that's so you that's a whole nother area of my life.

SPEAKER_04: 30:26

We'll we'll get to that in a second. So you decided to go to great, you wanted to go to Southern?

SPEAKER_02: 30:31

Yeah, so yeah, so okay, so a couple more things. Um, when it like growing up, we would go on mission trips to Mexico. Like, I went on like 10 of them in like 12 or 13 years. So like we'd go every Christmas to Mexico. So I saw that. I also saw my my dad showed me some like mission aviation videos when I was younger, and I thought, oh man, missionary aviation, that's so cool. And so when I was when I was really young and like still in the church and stuff like that, I was like, I want to be a mission pilot, you know, I want to do something like that. Um, as the years went on, like we'd go to Mexico and build churches. As the years went on, like it became more of a job and less of a ministry. And so, like, my I don't know, my ninth time going or whatever, I was like, all right, I'm go at that point I was putting in roofs and stuff like that. So I'm like, that's just my job. I go down there and I'm a tough guy, you know. I'm in like high school when I'm like laying block and like mixing concrete and welding roof and stuff like that. So um it kind of like got away from me um and I kind of lost that. But I had that in the back of my head, like, oh yeah, I want to do mission work someday or something like that. So I went to high school and my dad pastored the local church nearby, um, but he didn't pastor the academy church. So probably by my by like my sophomore year of high school, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go to the academy church. And then, like, if anybody at the academy church asked, I was like, oh yeah, I go to church with my dad. And like nobody seemed to check those boxes, and so I just stayed home. I was like, I'm kind of done. I was over church because I just felt like I dealt with so much hypocrisy, like people would say one thing and then say another thing. You know, when I was a kid, like I couldn't swim in the lake, and then oh, I could wade in the lake, and then now you can get up to your waist in the lake, and then we had a house, we had a house with an in-ground pool in high school, and then all of a sudden I was allowed to swim. And I'm just like, what are these rules? Because like stuff just changes all the time, and people are like, you know, some people, you know, I grew up vegetarian, and and that was like being vegetarian, that's part of your that's part of your relationship with God and stuff like that. And then you find out later, it's like, no, it's actually like kind of doesn't have to be for some people at least. And so it's like all of this different stuff, coffee's bad, caffeine's bad, like all of this different stuff. And it's like, I'm not saying I'm not gonna say whether it is or not, whatever, that's between you and God, but like all of this different stuff that was like extra scra script.

SPEAKER_04: 32:51

What do you think's worse for you? Having a cup of coffee in the morning or or double fisting a little Debbie, like two zebra cakes and uh and an oatmeal cream pie. What do you think's worse for you just health-wise? That maybe that's a maybe that's for a different night, but I'm just saying, like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 33:06

But like, yeah, all of that extracurricular stuff wasn't able to be found in the Bible, and so I started to just be like, this doesn't, this is not starting to make sense to me anymore because it's fun and it doesn't have any consequences from what I saw at that time, you know, at least. And um, and I was like, it seems like they're just trying to make life not fun. And so that like I I quit in high school and then um I quit, you know, through college and stuff. Like, well, my senior year, I had Bible studies with my principal, and I was like, you know, I felt God pulling on my heart and saying, like, I've got plans for you, but I just like so I I got rebaptized and I was like, okay, maybe I need to try this Bible thing out again, you know. But at the end of the day, it just my principal and my high school Bible teacher were like core people to me that were like um their relationship with God was like it was like glowing, you know, it was just like so sweet. And I was like, something I might be missing something because they have got something that I that I don't have, you know. And actually, what you talked about, Morris Vendon, um, my high school Bible teacher showed us that, and I was like, and he's like, you know, it's not what you do, it's who you know that changes what you do. I was like, oh, that's interesting. But then every single other thing it seemed, at least from my memory, that I could hear was said, or didn't maybe didn't say it, but the underlying tones were, it is what you do. And so I just couldn't get my head around that. I went to college, I just got rebaptized. I went to college and went like 10 times harder on everything that I shouldn't be doing, you know. Like it just I couldn't figure it out. I was, I'm like, I'm still I've heard the words, but I don't see the action. I stuff not lining up, it's not like cohesive, so whatever. We're just gonna keep having fun.

SPEAKER_04: 34:55

So let's jump back over to Tori. She went to the College of the Golden Cords, uh, where we push the pen and sling it ink, sling it ink, and push the pen along. Uh, you went out to Union and you started working for my guy. You got there 2016 or 17?

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

16, 17 was my year there. My one year there.

SPEAKER_04: 35:17

Okay, you got there. I had been gone for one year, so it was safe. The coast was clear, and Tyler was in. You started working for Tyler.

SPEAKER_00: 35:26

Yeah. Well, I worked for Tyler and I worked for the business division, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 35:30

I had two jobs. That's too much. That's overachieving.

SPEAKER_00: 35:33

Well, Tyler didn't have enough for me to do.

SPEAKER_04: 35:36

He's like, put all these pens in this bag. I'm about to go and on a tour, and I need pens, and I like I can't do that, so you do it.

unknown: 35:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 35:45

I yeah, I hated that job. But um, mainly because I had to call people, like I was working in recruitment, which I I had to call people and I had to email people, and I don't really like calling people, anyways. But I always hated like people were consistently trying to recruit me to union from like it felt like middle school. Um and I hated getting the calls from all the universities and stuff, and then I was on the other side and I was like, why do I have to be this person that's making these calls? This is awful. Um, it was a nightmare. The group emails were okay because I could just like copy send to everybody. But yeah, I had just I just didn't I didn't like that part of it.

SPEAKER_04: 36:24

But so when you were working with Tyler, this is uh a few years before his life fell apart. Um, did he was he did he did you guys did he talk gospel at all? Did he give you any wisdom? He was doing like a podcast back then, I think with Molly, who is now the campus ministries director at Union. Was he at all spiritual or was he just like dating Morgan trying to get through life?

SPEAKER_00: 36:49

I don't really remember a ton. Um like because I was only there for a year, it almost feels like one of those like fever dreams of like, did that actually happen? Um, just because it's like such a short time. So I don't, I don't really remember.

SPEAKER_04: 37:06

Fair enough. But you were like, I'm out of here, I'm gonna go be a missionary.

SPEAKER_00: 37:10

Yeah, so I no, I really liked my year there. I had I had a great time. I enjoyed my classes, I was a business major and I had no clue. Like, I literally they I decided last minute, Tyler convinced me to to go and recruited me. Um in like July, I think, before school starts in August.

SPEAKER_04: 37:30

Um and I remember or you don't even understand, you don't even know when you work in enrollment and one kid that you didn't know that was coming, and it's like the end of July, and they decide that they're coming, like that'll change your week. You're just like, yes, we got another one. Like we could keep the lights on. It is so stressful.

SPEAKER_00: 37:53

And I was like, I was the only one from my school that came, and he recruited at our school so much, especially because his sister was our dean and everything, and he was out there all the time, and I was the one the one that went.

SPEAKER_02: 38:07

The one.

SPEAKER_00: 38:08

I was the one. Um, but I remember like right, I don't know, a couple weeks before I was going, I was like getting enrolled in all my things, and I got an email that I needed to be paired with an advisor, and they were like, What is your major? And I was like, I don't know. I'm trying to decide between business, computer science, or business, computer science, and math. Um, and the next email I got was welcome to the business division. I guess just because I like listed it first, like that's what was chosen. I don't know. Um, and so I was a business major and I took one business class, Principles of Accounting. It was a great time. Um, and all my other classes were just like general classes, except like calculus two and three.

SPEAKER_04: 38:49

You took uh Christian beliefs.

SPEAKER_00: 38:54

No, no, I may I took um my second semester, I needed a religion class, and the only one that fit in my schedule was Revelation. Um, and it was not the easy A Bible. Dr.

SPEAKER_04: 39:09

Allen? Was it Dr. Allen, like uh like the real serious professor? You probably forgot his name. It doesn't matter, but that's an intense class.

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

I don't I don't feel like that was his name. I do it was it was an experience.

SPEAKER_04: 39:25

Was it the Santa Claus looking brother?

SPEAKER_00: 39:28

Maybe.

SPEAKER_04: 39:29

Yeah, he's the man.

SPEAKER_00: 39:30

Yeah. Um, it was a very hard class. Um, I did actually really enjoy reading the textbook. I did not enjoy going to class that much, but um, yeah, so I did not get off easy on the Jesus in the gospels class. The yeah, I don't know how a group of me and my friends ended up in revelation as freshmen.

SPEAKER_04: 39:50

It's uh it's called not doing the not signing up for classes early. That's what it's called.

SPEAKER_00: 39:54

Yeah, not doing your research. Not doing my research. Yeah. Um, but as a whole, like that, yeah, that year was that I took um I took uh Badman, a great time.

SPEAKER_04: 40:07

Um Grick Spaulding or Nancy Petta. Sorry, that's not interesting to anybody. So you went off. Uh you just you just decide I'm gonna do the mission here because I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't I don't know if I'm gonna be in business. So let me go and do mission work.

SPEAKER_00: 40:23

Yeah, so um a big part of the reason that I went to union is before I wasn't gonna go to an Adventist school. I wanted to move home again. Um, I kept wanting to move home. I never, I never really did, but um, I just kept moving further and further and further away. Um but I I the reason that I ended up going to an Adventist school was because I had watched, I went on two mission trips in high school and um I had watched some of my older friends like go on student mission years, and I was like, I really want to do a student mission year. And that's really hard to do through any school that's not an Adventist school. So um, yeah, after during my freshman year, I was like halfway through, I was like, this is what I'm doing next year. Um it was really hard because I was only 18. Um, I had just turned 18, like a month into school starting in college. Um, and so finding a lot of placements want you to be like a junior in college or a senior in college or at least 20, 21. Um and so I was really like, union really leaves it like up to you, like whatever you can find. Like they're like, we support you, do your fundraising, and we'll send you off. Um, and so I was reaching out to different people, and I really wanted to learn Spanish. I really didn't want to teach. Um, and I wanted to work in an orphanage, and my advisor was like, you know, like if you say you don't want to teach, you know what God's gonna send you to do. And I was like, I hear you, but like that's not happening in this case. Um, and that that is exactly what happened so far.

SPEAKER_04: 41:52

And I did you go to a Spanish-speaking country?

SPEAKER_00: 41:54

I did, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 41:55

Okay. Where'd you go?

SPEAKER_00: 41:57

I went to Bolivia. Um, so I had um basically they gave me like when I said I wanted to go to a Spanish speaking country, they gave me like four different contacts on campus that had or that or that were with union out in different places. And so I was um emailing with with different people and got connected with somebody that was down in down in Bolivia. Um and they put me in contact with the director. I think we had like two or three emails. And then I was like, okay, I'm I'm going. And I knew, I didn't even know where Bolivia was. Like, I had no clue what was happening. I was like, literally, like two days before my plane was supposed to take off, I'm reading somebody else's blog from like the beginning of their year and there, and they're talking about all these different like airports that they had to go to and how long they spent doing paperwork and all this different stuff. And I was like, wait, I have no clue what I'm doing. And I don't remember any Spanish from high school anymore.

SPEAKER_04: 42:55

So it's just like a sounds so scary.

SPEAKER_00: 43:00

Like I should have been terrified, and I really admire the fact that my parents were just like very supportive of this because like I don't come from Jonathan comes from like a huge list of missionaries in his family, but like nobody in my family that I know of was like everybody's Adventist, but nobody was like an overseas missionary. No, but like we did, I was one of the first ones to go on like even short-term mission trips, um, like overseas and stuff. And so I just, you know, I was still I turned 19 when I was during my first or second week in Bolivia. Um, and so I just admire the fact that my parents were as for the case. Shout out to your parents, man.

SPEAKER_04: 43:38

So you you were down there a few years, right? You didn't you never went back to union, you went like walk me through that.

SPEAKER_00: 43:45

Um, so I really think that like this was a pivotal moment in my life. I feel like God was taking me out of a path that I was trying to walk down. Um, I was kind of going through like even before this, like I knew God was calling me to go be a student missionary, but I was also kind of like I still wanted to have the good reputation, but I was also trying to prove that like if I wanted to do these things, I could. So I remember literally a week before I was flying down to Blivia, my it was one of my friends' 21st birthday parties, and I'm like laying on her couch, like completely trashed, and telling this guy about how I'm going as a missionary in a week.

SPEAKER_04: 44:26

Like mercy.

SPEAKER_00: 44:28

Because it was it was summer, like I was never willing to like do things that would get me in trouble at school or anything like that, but like break was different in my mind. Um, and I really feel like God was just trying to be like, no, I have bigger plans for you. So let me remove you from this situation and put you somewhere where literally you don't have a choice in any of these things. Um, and it became the biggest blessing in my life. Um, because I feel like through that I was able to see more clearly like who what he was calling me into and who he was calling me to be without distractions of feeling like I needed to prove that I wasn't a goody two shoes or who everybody thought that I was. I was like, I can do whatever I want, kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_04: 45:20

That's awesome. So how many years were you down there total?

SPEAKER_00: 45:25

I was down there for four years. I worked at two different schools.

SPEAKER_04: 45:29

Um, so after the first year, I was your Spanish like your Spanish is probably like 50 times better than mine, which I'm embarrassed to probably say.

SPEAKER_00: 45:37

I mean, I was really good by the end. Like I was preaching sermons, I was teaching classes, I was like I my thoughts were in Spanish. I would dream in Spanish sometimes. I would come up with worship thoughts in Spanish. Um at this point, but that took like it took a long journey. I refused to speak Spanish in front of any bilingual people for at least two years.

SPEAKER_04: 45:58

See, that's the difference between people that speak Spanish and people that speak French or something. If you speak French and you mess it up, someone who speaks French would be like, get out of here. But if you mess Spanish up, someone who speaks Spanish is like, oh good, you're trying. Like that's really good. Like we're we're we're lovely people.

SPEAKER_00: 46:16

I just had like I had a really hard time. Like I took high school Spanish and I would refuse to talk in class all the time. Like I knew that I like half- How's your accent now? Um better? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 46:28

Can can you say donde está la biblioteca? Can you like say where's the bathroom? Yeah, see that's uh can you say where's say where's the bathroom?

SPEAKER_00: 46:37

Donde está el baño. See that sounds really good. Thank you, thank you. Um But it was, yeah, so like the first like almost two years, if anybody was bilingual, like I just refused to speak like I would have people translate for me all the time because I just didn't I didn't want to sound dumb. Um it didn't like I like to be good at things. Even when I was learning how to speak, like as a little child, my mom always tells me that my first sentence was a full, my first word was a full sentence. Mommy, are we going home now? Everybody thought that I was like delayed in speech because I just wouldn't talk. And then they were like, oh, she's just such a perfectionist that even now she won't talk until she's got full thoughts formulated. That's funny. So that was a big problem. But after my first year down there, uh, we were ready to go back to the States. We left by bus to go back to the city to fly back. Um, and I had a friend that really wanted to return. And we're there were a bunch of like female single SMs that were coming down the next year, so they weren't like sure if there was gonna be space for us and stuff. And so we're sitting in our hotel, and um, our director calls her and is like, hey, like we have space for her, but also like if Tori wants to come back, like we have space for her too. And I was like, whoa. I hadn't thought about going back. Like, I thought about it a little bit in March. It had always been something on my mind when I was getting ready for my SM program. I had to interview different previous SMs at Union, and I had interviewed Morgan and she talked about how she went back for a second semester, and it kind of like sparked the thought in my brain.

SPEAKER_04: 48:08

When Morgan got back, like her year getting back was the worst year ever.

SPEAKER_00: 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 48:13

Like it was very difficult. When when you came back from all that stuff, was it like so hard? Maybe you will get to that part.

SPEAKER_00: 48:19

No, it was not hard at all, but we'll get there. Was it? But there's I think there's a reason for that. Um, so we're in this hotel, and I'm like, in my mind, immediately, I'm like, I know that God's calling me to go back. But there were a lot of things, like I was in a relationship in the States, and I was like, if I decide to stay, like this is gonna be over. Um, and that had been like a three-year relationship, and it was gonna be like a very emotional time for me. Um, and I was like, I kind of just want to go back to school where where I have my car and I can choose to go and do things whenever I want. Um, but I also feel like God's calling me to do this. And so I decided to go back um because I felt like God was calling me to do it, but I was I was not super thrilled about it. Um so even as I was like going to the airport, I'm like talking with our director, and I'm like, hey, um, yeah, he's like talking about how excited he is about this year, and I'm like, yeah, I'm actually really not excited about this. Like, I'll be there, but um, not thrilled. And he's like, Why are you coming? I was like, no, I feel like God's calling me to be there, and it's something I need to do, but I'm What did that feel like? What?

SPEAKER_04: 49:23

What did that feel like?

SPEAKER_00: 49:24

What did that feel like?

SPEAKER_04: 49:26

Like you say you feel you felt like God like as you look back on it, is that you still have that belief that God really wanted you there?

SPEAKER_00: 49:36

Yeah, I stand by that. I stand by the fact that like I I feel like that like I don't when I look back on my journey, I'm like all of these things needed to happen to get to where that I to where I am. And so yeah, I got down there and um I had been teaching. I was in charge of the kitchen when I first got down there, which was a train wreck. Um I did not know what I just didn't know what I was doing. They were like, Have you worked in food service before? And I was like, I worked as a waitress this summer.

SPEAKER_04: 50:05

And they were like, They're like, good, you're gonna make pancakes for uh 200 people.

SPEAKER_00: 50:10

They were like, Oh, okay, so you can run the kitchen. I was like, this is not the same. Like, I put orders into the computer and brought them drinks. Yeah, like I literally had a student teach me how to cut an onion. Like, I was like, I've lived in a dorm since I was like 13. Like, I don't know what's happening here. Um, so I did that for a semester, and then they put me in the classroom, and I absolutely hated that too, because if you don't have any teaching skills and you don't speak the language, it's really hard.

SPEAKER_04: 50:37

Um, so then I go just-stand up there speaking no Spanish, just like hi kids.

SPEAKER_00: 50:42

I was like, this is our list, and we just go through like a vocab list every every class period. It was it was not good. Um and so when I came back down that next semester, I thought I was at least gonna be teaching the same classes again so that we could go back and you know, do our lists and whatever. Um, but I got down there and they hand out like the teaching schedule, and I'm like not on there. And I was like, my director goes, Oh, I need to talk with you after. And I was like, Oh, this is not gonna be good. Um, and that time they they put me back in charge of the kitchen, um, which was almost worse because now I actually understood what was expected, and now I actually spoke Spanish, and I was actually gonna have to do the full job because I was only like half doing things. And um they were like, You're only gonna do it for two weeks. We have somebody else coming down that's gonna take over after that. And I learned that year in the mission field that when they say there's coming in two weeks, nobody is ever coming to relieve you of that thing. Like, you're gonna live in this house for two weeks. No, it's gonna be a year. Adjust, get used to it. Um, and so I spent that semester trying my hardest against the mice and all of the fun things of the kitchen. And I cried a lot and I was really mad. And the only like when I look back on it, I can just see how patient um our staff were with me. Like, our director was so God-filled, spirit-led, just continuing to like anytime I wanted to go over and just rant about how mad I was at life, he was like, I'm here for it. Like, we're gonna, it was one of the first times that I really saw like even when I'm in this struggling place, these people are here for me and riding with me. Like they are going to love me regardless of what I choose and what I do in life. Um, and they're here for the long haul with me. And I think that was like a very impactful thing for me in that semester. Um, so after that semester, I came back to the States and then I told Union, hey, I'm actually like not coming back. By the end of that semester, I was like, hmm, I guess I could keep doing this. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't really have a plan. I think my parents were kind of like, um, what is she doing? But I was like, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna go back to Union. So you can just like, I mean, it's been like a year and a half. I can't just keep like deferring my place and then in you know, four years I just go back to school. So I was like, I'm gonna take some time off and figure out what I'm doing. I was looking at options of I wanted to finish my residency in Bolivia, which was gonna be another two years. I wanted to, I had thought about going to school in Argentina. I don't know. I don't really know why. Um, I had thought about moving at one point I thought about moving home again.

SPEAKER_04: 53:33

Um, I don't Do you have a real heart for Bolivia?

SPEAKER_00: 53:39

Yeah. Well, I felt like I had I had a real heart for like the people that I was working with and and the kids and stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 53:45

I mean, you stayed there for four years, right?

SPEAKER_00: 53:48

Yeah. So after that first year and a half, when I came back, we had opened up another school, and I had the choice of going to one school or the other, and I was trying to decide where I was going, literally to the point that I like they're only like three hours from each other, so you have to fly into one to get to the other. And so I like flew in and was still like, guys, I haven't decided. Um decision making is not my strong suit. And so I was like, well, um, I'll go here for the weekend, and at the end of the weekend, I'll decide, decide where I'm going. And at the end of the weekend, their kitchen person quit. And they were like, if you stay this year, you're gonna be in the kitchen, leaving the kitchen again. And I was like, Yeah, I really felt like God was calling me to this last year, and I really don't feel like he's calling me to it now. I'm gonna go. And so I did. I went and I worked at the new school and I worked at that school for two and a half years. Um, and I wasn't gonna teach there, I was doing accounting because that's what I was doing in college, and that's when I learned that I hated accounting and I didn't want to do that either. Um, and then I did end up teaching within like two weeks of being there, and I taught English and math and art and music for the rest of the time that I was there. And um turns out when I had curriculum and I spoke the language and I had some experience, I I loved it.

SPEAKER_04: 55:04

Yeah, who would have known that um speaking the language would be like kind of a big deal? Like you would think you just kind of get up there and just make hand motions and you know the kids will learn.

SPEAKER_00: 55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 55:20

So, all right, we'll we'll we'll get back to we'll get back to you in a second. I have a feeling that Jonathan's experience in college was not like yours. Um how long did you stay at Southern, bro?

SPEAKER_02: 55:33

Well, actually, so I want to go back to high school real quick. There's a couple things. Um in high school I started getting uh sorry, in high school I started uh I started getting more involved with like girls and stuff like that. So that was one of the things that I was trying to figure out on my own, kind of, you know, and that was um kind of interesting. I remember like reading scripture, and it's like, you know, if you've had the thought, you've done the sin. And so I literally just use that to be like, all right, well, I've had the thought, so might as well just do the deal, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 56:06

I'm not sure that's how it works. I know I just confused and I didn't know somebody else, so I think I think the this idea from the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus is like, if you even lust that after somebody, you've done it. I think that if you don't understand what he's saying, it messes you up. Like this is a perfect example of that. Like, I don't think like a thought passing through your head that you don't linger on is just passes through, is just like, oh, you're no, like that's not an excuse. Like, don't do it. But then you're like, well, I had the thought, I might as well, you know, you know, bad stuff, right?

SPEAKER_02: 56:48

Yeah, so there's that, and then like uh right before right before I graduated high school is when I almost got my DUI. I was out drinking with some friends, and uh we got pulled over. And honestly, I I lied through through my teeth to get out of that one, and so I don't know if I give uh if I give that to God and say, God got me.

SPEAKER_04: 57:06

Wait, he didn't you were drunk, but he didn't give you the he didn't pull you.

SPEAKER_02: 57:09

Yeah, I somehow blew zeros. I don't know how on earth, but I blew zeros and the two miners with me didn't, and so uh I didn't get it, and they they did. So that was I it was kind of like a wake-up call. Um, and like then that like right through that time is when I was having Bible studies and I got rebaptized, and I'm like, and I felt like up until that moment, I was like, I'm gonna do PT. I was dating this one girl, I was like, I'm gonna get rich and just live my life and whatever. I like had this come to Jesus moment where I'm like, you know what? I think he's still calling me into missions, I think he's still calling me into this stuff. I'm gonna study elementary ed in college. So I get rebaptized, I go to college, and I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna study elementary ed. And it's like me and like 30 girls in my class because no dudes are studying elementary ed. Living the dream. Yeah, I live in the dream. And I get like right off the bat in college. I meet up with a couple of my friends, my sister's there um living in the area and stuff, and she's having a great life, and I'm like, I should try and like, you know, see what she's up to. So like I'm like hanging out with my sis and all her friends, and they're out drinking and partying and smoking pot and everything like that. And my buddies and me are like, we have this pact, you know, we're like, all right, let's let's go try it out, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 58:25

So like we get Just this once time, and then then the next time, and after that as well.

SPEAKER_02: 58:30

Just just for a while, you know. So so I I start trying it out. Oh, also during this time I get like diagnosed with like ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, all this different stuff. All of it. Like they give me the pills, I've got Adderall coming in, and um, I didn't learn how to use it properly. So I ended up Were you just high on Adderall all the time? No, I hated the side effects of it, and I didn't like stick with my doctor to try different like different versions of it to get the right mix for me. I just got to the point where I was like, all right, well, I'll just take it on Sunday, Monday, blow all through my homework, and then the rest of the week I won't take it. But then I end up with like a ton of extra medication, so I end up selling it so that I can like fund the pocket.

SPEAKER_04: 59:18

That's illegal in the state of Tennessee, my man.

SPEAKER_02: 59:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like selling, you know, all my meds basically to was it effective for your homework?

SPEAKER_04: 59:28

Did that plan work?

SPEAKER_02: 59:29

Yes, it worked out very good. Uh Sunday and Monday, I just like didn't have a social life. And also, like, it really like dampens your social life and um social skills. Social skills. Why? Because you're just like a robot or something. You're like a robot, yeah. Yeah. Sex drive is like completely gone. Everything's complete, emotions are gone, like everything's just you take enough of it, and it like you're just robotic. So I would just do that, knock out all my homework, and then do a couple things throughout the week and save it up for the next weekend, and then just nail it again, then sell off the rest, buy more pot, drink, party, have fun, whatever. Um I did that my freshman year. My freshman year summer, I went to summer camp. Somebody caught me smoking pot and was like, you need to knock it off. And I'm like, Yeah, man, like I'm the boat driver at camp. I don't want to lose this job, you know. So I'm like, I need to knock it off. And then I meet this girl. Uh just wasn't it wasn't meant to be. My friends actually all told me, like, stay away. I didn't stay away. Um, we're common tale. We get in this long relationship. She's like, don't smoke pot, you know. And so I'm like, laid off the pot. They're like, um, shut up, shut up. Yeah, laid off the pot a little bit, just kept drinking and stuff. We go, like, we go back to Southern, we're like in this relationship for like a year and a half, whatever. Um my sophomore year at Southern, I'm like taking an overload of credits, I'm like working 25 hours a week, you know, I'm I'm just like crushing it, everything's going great, no problem, just like rocking it. And uh out of the blue, I'm like partying with my friends on the weekends and having fun. And and out of the blue, I just like feel the Holy Spirit in the back, like, you need to do years of student missionary. And I'm like, that's not gonna happen. Were you drunk when this happened? It happened so often. Like, I just I like I felt like weekly I would have this like desire coming in my heart, like you're a sincere dude, bro. And and I'm like, and I'm like, ah, but like, but not. So finally I tell my girlfriend, I'm like, hey, I'm gonna do a student mission year, you know. I want to learn Spanish, I want to surf on the beach, I wanna like do all this different stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:41

She's like, oh like what about like the teaching or like the the caring for the children?

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:46

Yeah, yeah. Just like the experience. I want to travel, I want to, you know, all this different stuff. And like I go to the SM office, I tell them all that stuff, and they're like, okay, so like you can teach and uh teach and learn Spanish, but there's no ocean, or you can go to the like teach surfing? Yeah, or you can go to the ocean, but there's no Spanish and there's no teaching and different stuff like that. I was like, well, I want to teach and learn Spanish, so I guess I'll do that. So I end up going to Bolivia, and like my girl, my girlfriend at the time, she was like, the one thing she said continually that drove me crazy was like, promise me you won't change. And I'm like, well, duh, I'm gonna change. Like, I'm learning another language, I'm going overseas, like, I'm gonna see people do things, you know. I was like, I'm gonna change. And like I knew in my heart that she was like, spiritually do not change. Like we were on the same page. We were gonna get married. We had plans. Like she didn't want you to be more spiritual? No, no, not at all. Because that would that would like break the relationship, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:42

She didn't want him to smoke the pot, but she also didn't want him to be.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:46

You guys know here's here's something cool. I don't know if it's cool. That you end up linking up with somebody at the same emotional maturity level that you're at, yeah. Yeah, like it's if you meet somebody and they're at a less emotional mature stage than you are, you won't be attracted, and you won't be attracted if they're at a more emotional mature stage, yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. And so your girl's like, yo, don't become more emotionally mature than me, because then you won't be attracted to me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:18

Yeah, so like so I go into it, like I go to camp that summer, and then I take off and I go down to Bolivia. Like I quit, I quit everything like a week before I went down there. I think I quit smoking, I quit drinking, like I was off on my Addy, you know, like um my girlfriend came to say bye to me. We had an enjoyable time doing whatever um until we said bye and and then off to Bolivia I go to try and sober up on all levels uh in the jungle by myself, basically. So um that'll do it. It'll do it for you. It was good. It was good, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:59

Uh how long were you down in Bolivia? So I went to um I went down to Bolivia. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:09

You and God were cool at this time? Oh, dude. So so I get down to Bolivia and I was like, my deal with God was okay, like, so I know he's calling me to do missions. And I'm like, these two roads are not parallel, you know, and so I'm like, stuff's gonna either change or it's not, you know. But I get down there, my focus is like learn Spanish, um, do this education thing, because that's what I'm studying, right? And then like, you know, if a relationship with God happens, cool, you know. If not, I'm still pretty cool. So I get down there, and um, and very quickly, I was just like, well, I'm a I'm a missionary, so I should do my devotions. So I start doing devotions, and so quickly, man, I just like the Holy Spirit was just grabbing me. He's just like not gonna let me go. And I was like, Oh, all right, so this mission thing's for real, man. I was like, I'm feeling, I'm feeling called in that moment, in that time, missions was like overseas in the jungle, you know, something like that. So um I tell my girlfriend that while I'm down there, like, this is like three months in down there. I'm like, dude, the Lord is calling me to do mission work. I don't know what's gonna happen. And she's like, what are you talking about? How is he calling you? How do you like? How are you hearing?

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:27

She's like, is there good weed down there?

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:28

And I'm like, yeah, and and I'm like, I don't, I was like, I don't know. I don't know how it's gonna work, but we're gonna make it work between us. I was like, trust me, I we're number one, you know, we got this. So and she's like, no, we're not. This is not working out. And I'm like, no, it's working out, and she's like putting in zero effort to like communicate with me. I only get self-service like three times a month, and like she's just like, you know, all this stuff, not going so good. I my deal with God when I went down there was like you take every care of everything in the states, I'll serve you down here. Like stuff in the states goes wrong, and I'm done down here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:03

Like, so God's like, okay, I got you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:05

Yeah, he's like, okay, I got you. Uh, the camp I worked at, you know, um, one of the guys I worked with there, he drowned like a week after I ended up in Bolivia. And it was like, What camp was this, bro? Asable back in like 2017, George. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. So I'm like, I was just like, yo, this is not, this is not the deal, God. I was like, you gotta take care of people. And then, and then um after that, like one of my oldest friends, like, I'm I mean, I've known him since I was like six, his brother died in a car accident. And I'm like, this is not the deal. I was like, God, people are not doing all right in the States. What's up? And then um I start having dreams that my dad's dead, and it's like vivid dreams that my dad has died. And uh like so bad that I'm like weeping. I'm telling my director, my dad's dead, I have to go to town to get service. Like, I know that he's dead, and like I'm going to town, nothing. My dad's chill, he's fine. I'm like, this is crazy. And the the director's like, dude, I think the devil's coming after you. And I was like, he's like, what's going on in your life? And I'm like, no, nothing. I'm everything's good. Like, not me trying to sober up over here. We're all chill, you know. So like I'm going through all of that, and then my girlfriend at the time basically cheats on me. And I'm like, and during this time in my devotions, God is like, This is not the one. And I'm like, no, but it is the one, dude. Like my entire life plan. At this point in my life, I liked to plan out like my whole life. And so I had this whole plan. And so God's like, this is not the one. I'm like, no, I'm gonna make this work. Um, so like that happens. I'm like, immediately, like, don't even blink. I forgive you, it's okay. We'll be fine. And she's like, No, we're not gonna be fine. Like, trying to like break up with me basically. I'm like, no, no, trust me, I got this. We're fine, we're fine, we're fine. And then, like, two weeks later, she's like, dude, we're done. And I was like, I am buying tickets back to the states. I will see you at Christmas. We're not done. And she's like, Whatever, we're done. So this is like a movie.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:02

Like, this is that movie where this this girl keeps like breaking up with a guy. No, a guy breaking up with a girl, and she's like, No, we're not done. And he's like, Fine. Or it's Chandler and Janice from Friends. Yeah. They keep breaking up, and then she's like, Chandler, one of these days you're gonna get you're gonna really ruin this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:20

And that's you're Janice. That's it. So so I'm like, so I'm like, nah, it's gonna like we're gonna fix it. I go back over Christmas, we don't fix anything. Uh like she's she's out, and then like by January, like, she's she's done done. And I was like, and at that point, I'm like, all right, my dad has died like three times. People are dying, my friends are dying. Like, my girlfriend just broke up with me. At that same time, my parents went on a vacation where they had no cell service, nobody else was communicating with me. And I'm overseas, I'm like, dude, I am 18 hours deep in the jungle, nothing. I was like, you have taken everything away from me. I'm reading Job, I'm like, all emotional and everything like that. And and uh God's just like, dude, you got a decision. You can keep you can keep with me or you can go home. And I was like, uh, and so like I was like, all right, I just dove in deeper on my devotionals, and I remember a week, I remember a weekend. I went on my day off to town and I was like, Lord, I need somebody. Somebody has got to have messaged me because I was like, I have nothing. And I remember I had like seven messages from different friends like that had been messaging me that the entire past two weeks that I didn't have service. And it's I just I was like, dang, all right, we're I was like, you're here. Like, I don't know you yet, but like you're here, and so at that time I was like, let's let's rock with it. So we went the rest of the year together, it was great, and um there was some real highs and real lows. I fostered a girl for a while and then she got taken away, and it was like pretty, pretty tough down there. Um there's a lot of there, there was a lot, and there probably still is a lot of psychological stuff that happens down there that just really um kind of wrecks you. I come back that summer and I'm like, okay, I can either go back to Southern and get messed right back up in the same stuff I was doing, or I cannot. And I'll and I didn't know what I was doing with my life. And the camp director at the time, I chatted with him and he told me like he gave me the wisest words, and he was just like, don't go blow$17,000 on a degree you don't even, you know you don't want. Take it, take time off, dude. He's and and so I I called the school and$17,000.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:33

That's with your with the pastoral stuff. Yeah, it's like 35, 36 at this point, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:39

So so I so I call the school, I cancel like everything, I close up everything. I call my parents, I tell them I just dropped out of southern, and they're like, what on earth is happening? Like, like my my my entire family is super um in the medical field and everything like that, and like trees are you know, everything and stuff. And so I was just like, I don't know, but I was like, I I I don't know what I'm doing, but I told my mom, I said, I feel like maybe I want to do mission aviation. I had no clue what to do. And she's like, I I don't know what to help you, you know. Um I don't know. I don't know. And so like a couple weeks later, I um I get put in contact with a guy down in Belize, and he's like, his I tell him my whole story. I'm like, this is what this is where I'm at. Like, and uh, well, minus all of the bad stuff, like all the good stuff. Like, I'm a missionary and I want to do this, you know. And he's like, his first question was like, Do you want to be a mission pilot? And I'm like, Yes, please. And he's like, All right, come down to Belize. So I end up going down to Belize for a couple couple years.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:39

I guess I don't know if we want to move on from Tartillery or if I keep going, but how was Belize?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:46

Yeah, so uh Belize was tough, dude. Uh it went the other way. Like the the director in Bolivia was understanding, like there was times where I would be just weeping, man, because because of my ex and everything like that. And I didn't tell him any of that. And he's like, I don't know what's going on in your life, but let's pray, man. And he would like he would just pray over me and stuff, and I'm like, you know, I get in another relationship while I'm down there because I just I can't stay out of relationships. Like, and every time I was like, I'm happy singing. Corey, you're awesome, and everything, you know. And I get I get in another relationship that's even more unhealthy, and it's just like, and I at this point still, I have not done the math to find out I'm the common denominator. So I'm like, this is all these girls' fault. Everything just keeps failing. You know, I end up in Belize, um, and it is a very conservative project.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:39

Like legalistic, yeah, like traditional old school Adventism.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:45

Like traditional old school, like you need to have if you're gonna play any music out loud, it has to be run by the director's wife because she's the most musically talented, and she, you know, she she knows what's holy and what's not holy and stuff like that. And it was, it was just like, I'm like, well, you know, I'm new to this faith thing, you know, like me and God are now starting to walk together. I'm trying to figure out all this stuff, and I'm like, all right, so I kind of like, but at the same time, I was like, hold your horses because like they're saying things, and I'm like, they don't know. Like, they don't know. I didn't tell any of them. I'm like, dude, just over a year ago, I just got sober. Just over a year ago, I stopped selling Adderall, just over a year ago, I stopped smoking pot. Just over a year ago, well, less than that. Um, maybe a couple months ago, I quit having sex, like stuff like that. And and and uh and they're judging people for like having uh uh wearing a like a ponytail like thing around the wrist and stuff like that. I'm like, dude, I should probably shut up around here because like I'm gonna get kicked out. I don't belong here basically. So I did that for like two years. It was good, like there was some really good stuff there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:55

Um but there was like just wanted to hang out in Central and South America as much as you could.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there was some really good stuff there, but there's some really there was some stuff that was just like back to that hypocrisy thing where it's like you're the bar you're setting the bar here scripturally. I don't see the bar set anywhere like in that realm. Like it's I I just didn't get it, you know. I was like, I don't know. So I I made it through those two years. I worked, I I um I just kept my head down and just worked, and uh it's good, and then I ended up coming back to the states.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:30

When you got back to the states, who was who was God at this point? Is it confusion?

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:35

Uh it's just confusion, man. But I like I thought I knew. Like I was like, I I don't know everything, but I I think I know that God is good. I know I'm not good, but I'm still messed up. Like when I another thing, like growing up so growing up, like this whole girl thing started like when I was super young. I like me and a couple close people in my life um all got introduced like together to uh pornography and stuff. And so from like 12 years old, I'm like I'm in this stuff, you know. And and so that kind of just controlled my life, and and so here I am, you know, 20 years.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:15

When you were down there, did you have access?

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:18

Oh yeah, yeah, you have internet, you have you have your phone, you have whatever. Well, not in Bolivia, but in Belize. Yeah, not in Bolivia. But Bolivia had other things going on, so but like so like I knew that God was good and stuff, but at the same time, I am still like God is good, I cannot get rid of this crap. And I'm uh and so I'm in Belize, and I come back to the States and I'm like, you know, the the God that that Cindy Peterson and the Delwan Garcia were speaking about when I was in high school, like they like that's a good God, and they have a great relationship, but I'm missing something, but I was like, you know what? It got to the point where I was like, I don't know, maybe they just weren't given this temptation that I am, and so maybe like I just struggle with this until he comes and maybe we just roll a dice and see what happens. But like at the end of the day, I want to be trying to do the right thing because that gives me a shot at heaven versus like not trying to do the right thing and I just go straight to hell, you know. So that's kind of where I was at. I was like, I'm just gonna try really, really, really hard, and sometimes I'll try less hard, but most of the time I'll try really, really, really hard, you know. Um, and we'll just see what happens, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:33

Tori, you're back in the states. What happened?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:39

Um, so well, before that, we have to go back to why I came back to the states. So when I was so I had been in Bolivia for a year and a half. I decided to drop out of union. I went back to Bolivia. I was out of school until September, and I decided I wanted to be a teacher. I remember I called my dad and was like, hey, I want to go back to school. I want to do online school. This is the school, this is the program. I'm gonna be able to do it while I'm in Bolivia, I'll do it like under your guys' address. Um, obviously, I needed financial support for this, so I'm trying to, you know, acquire that. And my dad goes, Well, a lot can happen in a couple months. Because in his defense, I had changed my mind probably 15 times in the last the previous two years that he was like, Well, we'll see what happens. Um, but I did, I followed through on that one. Um, so I started school um that August, that September, I think it was online school. So you could start pretty much any month. Um, I went through Western Governors University and I was doing secondary ed math. Um, and so I was working through that program. They have you do one class at a time. It's all online school, and I already had a lot of experience in the classroom. Um, so I was just like flying through classes. Um I'd have to go to town every time that I need to take a test. I'd sit, I would my entire day off, I would sit with my phone in the window, hot spotting to my computer and not touch my phone because literally the wind blew and the service left, kind of a thing. Like it was I was on the phone with my advisor one time with her supervisor and I could hear them, but they couldn't hear me. And she's explaining to her how I'm in Bolivia half the year, and sometimes I have to walk out to the cow field so that I can have service to have these conversations and stuff. Um, so it was it was a trying time. Um then I'd come back on breaks and I'd like work in restaurants and study a ton. But I finished my whole like classes in a year and a half um while I was down there. So I was trying to stay down there. Education's easy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:41

School, like it's Mercy.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:46

Um school came, school came really easily for me. So it was it was pretty easy to just fly through. It's all competency-based. You just have to pass a test at the end or write a certain amount of papers or whatever, and then you're good. Um, and so I was like flying through classes. Um, and then I had to stay in Bolivia long enough to get my permanent residency. So I remember we went to this was 2020, um, November, and we're calling because COVID-19.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:15

Oh, so this is like in the middle of the worldwide panty.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:18

Yeah, yeah. It was wild. Bolivia did things um differently. We'll say.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:26

Were there as many people dying down there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:28

Yes. Yeah. I would say there were still a lot of people dying down there. We didn't have like in our we were in the poorest um like state of Bolivia. Um, and so for like a long time the news would pop up and they'd be like, There's no COVID in this state. And then and then finally we got tests, and there's like so much COVID. But like our hospital had like one um one oxygen tank for the whole town. So like on campus, we saw one of the one of our like sister schools go through, like have a bunch of COVID go through, and everybody was super sick and it was really bad. So we were like doing all the things like how many times did you get it? I'm okay, never tested for sure. So once, twice, I'm not sure. So it happens in March. School is sort of still happening. We're a boarding school, so they want us to keep going because we're safer secluded, but then like all the towns locked down. So because everything just passes, like there's one road, they just close the gate and you can't get in or out of anywhere. So we were stuck on campus until June.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:30

How'd you get food? Like, there would be one person go get food or like how it works.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:34

You had we had one person that could go into town based on the day of their ID card. Like the number of their ID card told them when they could go into town. Um, if you didn't wear a mask, they like put you in the stocks for the day. Like it was uh, yeah, like an alternate universe kind of a thing. And then when they got back, like if we could when July, when they like opened up the town, we went to our nearest town, our nearest second town three hours away. And when we came back into town, like they had us get out and they took out like the what you would use to use like pesticide on the like bushes and stuff. But I'm pretty sure it was just filled with like bleach water. They had us all get out of the truck and like stand in the line and they sprayed us all down and they sprayed down our truck and then they like let us keep going. It was wild. But it comes around to like November, and we all there was a group of us that had to go to the city and do our paperwork. And so we're calling and they're like, oh no, COVID's the thing of the past, like you're good, don't worry about it. And we were like, No, like it is in the city, but we're still living like we're living like three or four months behind everybody else. So, like, if we can't get out of our city, what do we do? And they're like, No, no, you're fine. So we travel by land, we get there to like leave the town, they won't let us. Our director has to get out and like do a bunch of talking to like get them to let us leave. We take a bus, it's like a 24-hour drive. So we get there and we're sitting on we're we we were like day two or three. It's like a week-long process of trying to like do this paperwork. And we're on a bus, and all of a sudden, like one of my friends goes, Oh, smells really gross. And I was like, I can't smell anything.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:08

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:08

I was like, what do you mean? And all of a sudden we both look at each other and it like dawns on us. And I was like, I think I have COVID. And I was like, Well, we like if you don't get your paperwork done on like the exact dates, you're paying massive fines, you're having to reschedule your appointments, like months. Months out. If I have to quarantine in the city, then everybody's gonna travel back 28 hours without me. And then I'm traveling by land later myself. I was like, my mouth is sealed. Like I'm not saying anything. So I mean, we're all wearing masks and stuff. I never had a fever because they had temperature scans everywhere you walked into. Um, you walked through like missed things anytime you walked into a store. Um, so we're sitting in the office to get like to do the final presentation of our paperwork. And it's like pretty much as long as you have done everything right the whole time, they will give you your visa, they will give you your your um residency and stuff. Um, but I had had the previous year, I didn't know you can be out of the, you can only be out of the country for 90 days per year. And I thought it was per like January to December, but it's actually per like when you get your residency. So mine was like September to September. So like year three, I think, year two or three. Um there was a before COVID, there was a bunch of like civil unrest. And so we all left early. And then I found out when I got like I was literally in the airport when the guy was like, no, it counts September to September. So I like go through customs and I'm sitting waiting for my flight, and I start counting the days, and I was like, I'm gonna be over for this time. And so I had I like got back to the States, I had to get an extension like granted for it from a doctor. Luckily, I had a knee issue, so he put me in physical therapy that made it so I had to be there. Um, and so I had like all the documentation for that, but it was still like a nerve-wracking thing of like, will they give this to me? Will they not? And so I like get up there. Well, while we're sitting there waiting, I'm like scrolling on my phone. Um, and I scrolled across some post that Nicholas Morrison had posted. And I just messaged him back and I was like, thank you for this. Um and then we go up to the counter, both my friend and I, and I got my visa and hers got denied. Um, and hers got denied because she had also had an overstate day mistake, but she had never caught it. Um so three years, and her like her life dream was to stay in Bolivia, like forever. Um, three years of work we had put into making sure we were doing the right things and getting our residencies and all the things, and just to have it like all shattered. And so then we're like walking around that afternoon, and I don't even remember what I had read, but it was very impactful. Um, and so we're like talking about this. So I like messaged Nick the next day, and I'm like, hey, just like thank you for sharing this. Like, um, like my devotional life is really good when I'm on campus, but then I like came here and we're doing all this traveling stuff and I just feel off about it. Um and he just like messaged me back and was like, you know, like your basically like your devotional life is not like you know that God's living in you and God's like doing these things through you and like all this stuff. And I was like, I didn't respond. I looked back at it the other day. I never responded.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:21

Uh you just read your like to apologize here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:24

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the lack of response. It was a little bit like taken aback for me because I was like, I've been four years in the mission field. Of course I know these things, but also at the same time, um, my salvation depends on my devotional life. So I don't know what you're saying, but I can't say that I don't know what you're saying, kind of a thing. And that kind of sparked a little bit of thoughts in me. Um, and then I came back, I finished finished my residency and I came back in that was in like September, and I came back to the States in December for a little bit by a miracle that I actually got my passport back in time because that was a whole journey too. Um, but I got back to the states and I'm like scrolling through, and he had hosted about a Friday night study, and I was like, Is this open to anybody? And so I like hop on. Um kind of coming from a place of like I know all the things, like this was in the heyday of the Florida boys. Yeah, yeah. It was a good time. They had the first the first one that I jumped on, um, somebody was talking something about the law. And I remember saying something about like the law being God's gift to us. Um, because that was a very strong belief that I had because I was good at following rules. The like the Ten Commandments were not a problem for me because this is the thing that I get to do. Like this is a gift for me. Um, and then somebody else just like commented, like, you know, praise God, we're not under the Ten Commandments. And I was like, hmm, I don't know how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:55

Uh didn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:58

And so yeah. And so I was like a little bit shy about that. So I I don't know, like it was over the holidays, so like different things were happening, and then I ended up hopping on another time and I stayed through the after party. And Serena was like, here's this, here is this wave one to like go through. And so I'm just like, I start watching things and I'm like, I'm vibing with this. Like, this is there had been some things that had happened in Bolivia that were really leading me towards understanding the Holy Spirit living in my life and the Holy Spirit guiding me and the Holy Spirit speaking to me, which was something I hadn't really experienced before. Um, and so I'm like on this on the study, I'm like, this is good. And then I had one semester, so I had finished my classes, but I wasn't starting student teaching until August. So I went back to Bolivia for another six months. And that was a tough semester. Like our first day back, somebody's preaching a worship on the dead bird versus the flopping bird. And it's like, well, I'm still a Christian because at least I'm this flopping bird that's still trying to be alive. But basically, like this is always gonna be the struggle. And I was like, hmm, I have a different lens to look through now. Like it's not. Um, and I had some friends that were like, like, I felt like our school kind of had a some differencing of opinions in like theology in that kind of way. Um, and I was just started looking at everything and I was like, everything is so rules-based. Like, what is what is happening here? So it was like it was really um hard for me, but I feel like God had some like Holy Spirit was 100% living in me through that whole semester because like everything that I was struggling with, I remember one night like we were having a week of prayer, and we had to do all the things and be at all the things and be everywhere on time and be ready for everything. And I had something that went late in my classroom, and I'm trying to get everything ready, and I'm finally leaving the classrooms, and I'm walking over to dinner, and we were all supposed to have showered before dinner because we went straight from dinner into fancy week of prayer worship. Um, and I'm walking over there, and I'm just like, I'm ready to give all of the reasons and all the defenses of like why I'm not ready. And like, I did, I'm doing what I needed to do. Um, and God was just like, like you would have thought that I was like walking with my fists up, kind of kind of stance of ready. And God was just like, She does that sometimes. God was very clearly like, you do not have to defend yourself, I defend you. And I was like, Oh, well, okay, I mean, yeah, you're not like it it very much like put me in my place, and I was like, okay, I can just I can live and exist in this place from a different perspective, and like God can work through me through that, and that's okay. Like I can work with all of these other people and I can have different opinions than other people, and it's okay. And I don't have to walk around defending myself because like God's got it. Wow. So yeah, that was that was just one of the experiences that I had that semester. I guess your original question was when I came back to the states, how did that go? So I can I can get to that now.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:13

And so then it kept going, you kept kind of growing in this stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:17

Yeah. Um, it was hard because I wasn't like that connected to anybody that was like part of these Bible studies or anything when I was down there because I didn't have very good service and I couldn't jump on Bible studies because of I remember when you would come on, everyone we would all get excited.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:32

And I always like way behind. So I'm like, wait, where is she? They're like, She's over here, and I'm like, What? And she's on the Bible study, like that's what's up, but I had no idea. I just knew that when you showed up, it was kind of like a big deal.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:46

Yeah, I remember that. So I like came back to the States. Um, I flew into um San Diego to one of my friends, and my mom drove out and picked me up. And on our way back, I was like, We're gonna go visit my friend in Mexico that I had got to know on a Bible study. It's gonna be great. And my mom was like, You met this random person on the internet, and we're gonna drive to Mexico. And I said, Yeah. So we went and hung out with Ame for the afternoon.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:08

Um Were you the first person that Ame met from the community?

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:13

Probably one of them. Yeah, yeah, because I mean, like, we live like close to Mexico, so um, like relatively. And then I went up to work for my dad in Alaska for a summer, and I spent so much time just listen. I was he runs like a lodge and um fishing, charter fishing company up in Alaska, and um I spent my summer just doing housekeeping for him. And it was amazing. I just spent so much time like plugging into Bible studies, listening to um podcasts, and just like growing, growing in the spirit, just having an amazing time in my Bible, just enjoying things right before I went into student teaching, um, where I taught with Danika Azunian and had also an amazing experience there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:58

Did you know she you knew she had like a background with um the gospel?

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:02

I did. I had seen her on a Bible study, but she had not seen me. Um and we didn't talk about it for the first like couple weeks. Um, but one of the things that like when we were talking about it, she was like, I kind of like I could just feel it because a lot of times when SMs come back to the states, they go through this really hard emotional time because you're going from doing all the things and being all the things to going back to living like your regular life. You're going back to college where it's all like self-centered again. And you're just like, I don't know what my purpose is, I don't know what to do. And I think because I didn't do that, I came back and I like I transferred from teaching in South America to teaching in the States. Like it just there was no self-centered like moment where I was just like, oh, I'm like going back to living life all about me. I'm just jumping from like one ministry to the next. I really didn't feel that like terrible. And I had spent so much time going back and forth. Like I came back for all my breaks and stuff. So I just didn't have that like crisis life changing, like what is happening? Who am I now that I'm not teaching? Because I was, I was still teaching. And so that was one of the things that like hit her. But um, yeah, we did we did get into that, and that was it was it was it was an awesome semester.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:17

Had you and Jonathan met at this point?

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:20

We had met, so he worked in Bolivia the year before I did. Um when I got down there, a bunch of different people um kind of like reached out to me because everybody wants to know like how the kids are doing or whatever um as time goes on and stuff. So he had reached out to me over like text or whatever. Um lol. Yeah, like we had we had talked like every once in a while for the first like year, and then after that, he'd like we'd like message like once a year kind of a thing. Um I knew a lot of I was I had met a lot of the people that he worked with down there. Um and I was friends with friends with those people.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:58

Did you know that he started uh getting the feelings for you, or did you do girls always know this stuff?

SPEAKER_00: 1:34:04

Um no, that was that was later. So at that point, like there were there were no feelings.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:09

Yeah, so basically Okay. So I go to Bolivia, I come back to the States, I did not have the same experience story I had. I was wrecked when I got back to the States. I had fostered a girl for like four months down there. I mean, it was amazing. Like, she was two years old, and I mean it was the most beautiful experience of my entire life. I don't even know how to do it. That got taken away. My students started like stealing from me, um, like just doing everything behind my back, smoking pot, all this different stuff. Certain ones of them were not expelled because there were some politics going on, while other ones that were close to me did get expelled. It was a it was a mess. So I was like really struggling with all that, and then I just get pulled out, put back in the States, and like you go from like eating all this like Bolivian food, like because there's nothing, there's only Oreos and like peanut butter that taste like American food to like going down, going down like the the the Is there a lot of arrosy frijolas down there?

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:12

Did you get used to oh yeah, yeah. I love I love that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:15

But I took my sister to visit with me once and she was so excited when we were going down, she was like, We're gonna try all this Bolivian cuisine, and I was like, You go for it. I'm gonna go eat at all these places. Yeah, yeah. One day in, she was like, I do not like any of this. It all tastes the same and it all tastes weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:30

So like then you come back to the States, and my brother's like buying like 15 bags of chips for the weekend because he's got guests coming over. I'm like, this is insane, dude. Like, you don't need this much. Why are we like spending this much? You know, like, oh, if I don't eat it this week, I'll eat it next week. And I'm like, people are literally starving overseas, and like I'm like crying all the time. And I'm like, I just feel like I've betrayed all the students, and like I'm at summer camp being a boat driver, just chilling and having fun, and and like, and then like you know, so one second it's like, oh, this is so much fun, I'm so cool. And then like the next second it's like, but I've betrayed all of those precious children that I was carried for, and I'm like just like weeping in the in the woods and stuff. I'm like calling my parents like week after week, just crying. And I mean it was it was emotional torture, man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:13

I had none of these feelings, just to be clear.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:16

So I wanted to link up, so I wanted to, I wanted to know what was going on with the students down down like in Bolivia and stuff. So we followed all the new SMs to see what was up. So I like I introduced myself to Tori like over text. I was like, oh, you know, and she's like, oh, what's up? And then like she knew this girl that I um had a relationship with when I was in Bolivia and stuff, and so I like Tori number one, Tori was not my type.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:39

I was I was a good two shoes, I wasn't a good two shoes, but then like also she knew like I only have drunk once, and that was before I went on a four-year-long mission trip, so that's not who I am.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:51

Yeah, and then like it was like I only pick disaster situations, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:56

And then she like and then she knew like basically one of my exes, and so I was like, she probably knows all the dirty stuff, and so it didn't even cross my mind. There was not even like uh, oh, I don't think she'll ever look like me. It was just like that's not my girl. It's not in the cards. That's that's not it. So uh we yeah, we messaged a couple times over the years. I was in Belize, um, like I said, for like two years. Then I ended up coming back to the States. I was supposed to do trade school, I was gonna do, I was starting on my pilot stuff, and then I was supposed to do um maintenance, like the aviation mechanics certifications and stuff. So I ended up in Highland View Academy for two years, deaning um while I kind of waited for that. Um the tartans. I was pretty much the same the whole time, just like try your best, man. Just keep rocking, keep knocking, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:40

Um and uh that's what you told the boys. They're like, Dean, help us. And you're like, I don't even know myself, bro. Like, do you I'm on the street, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:50

So um, no, I like I I had I had a fair fair amount of contact with the with the guys, and like some of them listened, but I mean it was rough, man. We had we went from like 23 kids down to like 13 in like a year and a half because somebody got expelled and stuff like that. It was it was a it was a rough situation. Um and like during that time, I'm just like waiting to go back overseas to like the mission field, you know. Uh I ended up going to Michigan, get my trade school stuff going. I'm still like, I'm telling you, it is literally like train wreck after train wreck after train wreck after train wreck. It wasn't until I get to Michigan that I'm starting to put the numbers together in my head, and I'm like, oh, uh, so like this might actually be my fault.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:34

Like carry the one. Yeah, this is on me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:38

This one might just be like I am, I am not doing so hot. And then still, like, still I would just I still was like, well, you know, I'll try and do better, you know. And and at the core of it was like I was never vulnerable enough to like tell them my struggles until like they figured it out when we got too deep or when we went too far or something like that. And then they would either back out or they wouldn't, and then I would back out later, or you know, uh like but it was always like I wasn't I wasn't willing to be vulnerable enough and honest enough or anything like that, and so it um it just carried on, man. It was just like that's that was my life. I I went to trade school and like I spoke such a good game. It was like a mission training center, so they're all like trying to go to the mission field, and I'm like, oh man, I've been overseas for like four years, like you know, all this stuff, and everybody's like, oh, he's so cool, and everything like that. But like, nah, at the end of the day, I didn't know I didn't know gospel. Like, I was like, Yeah, you know, like I'm still messing up and everything like that. Um, I get trade school stuff done and then I get jumped back into missions. I work, I worked like three years at a project in Georgia um on aircraft and stuff like that while I was getting my pilot certifications done um with the goal of like going back overseas. And in that time, like spent like a lot of time working on uh by myself at the airport wrenching on planes, and then I have like you know, one guy come work with me that's like gotta do all of these things. Check all these boxes, and then I had another um mission guy came through. I built a a super cub for I helped build a super cub for a project in Bolivia, and um man, the year and a half that we spent building this plane, I mean, he was just pouring gospel into me. And it was like just little things. It was not it wasn't like freedom from sin or like anything crazy like that, but it was like just little things about like um just health and balance and like God doesn't want you to be starving in the jungle so that like you can take care of somebody else, like you like He will provide everything you need and just different stuff like that, and and and like work-life balance and all of this different stuff, and so it's just like the slow journey of like unlearning a lot of like the toxic stuff I'd I had seen overseas that I had glorified and like put on in the trophy shelf of like this is what I need to be as a missionary, and like just like unlearning a lot of that stuff, and so it was good. Um my relationship with God was still like it was growing, but there's still like at the end of the day, it just still felt like the church had played bingo with what we were gonna keep from you know the law and what we were gonna throw out, like girls aren't wearing head coverings anymore, and and uh you know, but like you know, we still aren't having pork, but you know, we we will do some of this stuff and we won't do some of that, and and I'm like looking through scripture, I'm like, this is just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm still just trying 75 to 80 percent, you know, like yeah, you know, I still love my chicken. Because that's what it's about. I still love my coffee, but I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna try really hard on some stuff. And like I I was thinking like when I the times when I got closer to God, when I like focused more on my relationship with him, when I was like, all right, we're gonna go full tilt on this thing, is the times when like porn and other addictions and struggles would like just rear their heads and like come at it. You know why that is? Yeah, and then like if I spent like six months not having my devotion at all, just watch binging TV and stuff like that, yeah. I mean, I have no problem at all with that. I like I was like, oh I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:42:17

Well it's because when you're trying to suppress it and you're thinking about it more, yeah. Like if you relax around it and you Like that's the thing is when you strive and try and you're like, no, like it's actually in your head.

unknown: 1:42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:42:30

In your head more. So when did you guys start chit-chatting? Yeah, so like in a real way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:39

And um the director of the project that we had both worked at in the past, um, his parents um died in a house fire like two and a half hours away from where I where I lived and worked. And uh at this same time I was finishing up the plane project that was going to Bolivia and I was trying to go to Bolivia to put it to assemble it, fly it, everything like that. Um and so Tori and so Tori What? I want to share my side too.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:08

Oh I didn't know whose turn it was. My bad, Tori.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:12

So, so um, so Tori was down there, and she'll talk about that. She was down there for a second. I I linked up with her and I was just like, Oh, you back in Bolivia? She's like, No, I'm not back in Bolivia, I'm just here doing this little thing. I'm like, oh, cool. And then like at that same time, like she's coming back to the States, funerals coming on, and everything like that. And um I guess I'll let you go first and then I'll wrap up. So go for it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:32

Um, so I for my because I have permanent residency, it's like permanent residency, but you have to do X, Y, Z things. So I have to stamp into the country every two years to maintain it. Um, I don't have to be there for a long time, but like this last time it was literally a stamp in one night, stamp out the next night. Um, but you're trying to keep that? I I don't know what I'm doing at this point.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:53

You're gonna be flying back and forth to Bolivia every year?

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:55

We did last year. I don't know. I don't know. That's not what this podcast is about. I don't know what's happening now. But this was a this was a couple years ago. Um, so my sister and I had planned a trip for my Thanksgiving break. I had taken a day or two off of school on my like return so that we could go, because I wanted to show her we wanted to go like do the actual touristy things that I hadn't ever really done. Um so we we were meeting in, she lives in Nashville, so we were meeting in Miami, and then we were gonna fly down together. And I was on my flight to Miami, and our director texted me um that he had just he was down in Bolivia and he had just gotten word that his his parents had died the previous night. Um, and so he was trying to get back to the state. So my sister and I flew down, we were in um the city and we we met up with them and were able to, you know, connect with them before they flew back because we were also headed to the school, we were gonna go to graduation and stuff that happens in November. And so we did, we still went and did our like Salt Flats tour and stuff, but I was like, well, like we already coming back from break, we already didn't have school on Monday. I'd already taken, I think I'd already taken Tuesday and Wednesday off um on the return. And I was like, Fridays are like half days anyway. So I was like, I can just take off Thursday and Friday.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:10

Who's counting?

SPEAKER_00: 1:45:11

And so I like messaged, like I text my principal, and I'm like, hey, so this is the situation. Like I would really like, since I'm already gonna be on this side of the country flying back from Miami, I would really like to be able to go to Georgia and like help in this situation. These people were like, like my director was literally after four years working with him, like felt like my parents, you know. Um, and so my principal said that that was fine. So I like changed my ticket and I was like, hey, um, if you want me to come out and help, I will. Um so he's like, yeah, that would be great. And so um we still went, we did the my sister and I did the salt flats tour. We went to um graduation. I was able to help on campus because I had done a lot of the administrative stuff when I was there too, and helping in that area while he was gone and stuff for all the graduation stuff. And then we flew back and I flew to um I flew to Georgia and uh yeah, on our way back, we had like a little conversation because I had posted something on my Instagram story about how um I would just pictures that while I was in Bolivian, he had messaged me and was like, Oh my goodness, are you so are you so in Blivia? I'm like, no, just dizzying. Um and we're like talking, and apparently he thought it was some sort of magical conversation. No, no, no. Like I love this girl forever. But I go, I show up and we showed up at the same time. No, I'm not lying. We showed up at the same time. Nobody introduced us because everybody thought we had already met. Um, but because we showed up at the same time, everybody thought that we were because we were just his friends from Bolivia. So of course we had obviously we had probably shown up together, which we had it, we had just met too. So everybody thinks we're like together, which it wasn't a bad thing. But apparently I reacted when I when I was asked if we were dating. So and you were like, but then like we had all like I had this rental car, and my rental car kept dying, and so then our friend was like, Oh, well, he can drive you. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:07

They tried setting it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:08

It was like, oh, your hotel is like on his way, it's not, it was like a whole triangle, opposite directions.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:12

No, okay, so so so from my side. So I I'm messaging her, I'm like, oh, she's in Bolivia, whatever. And then um, I was looking for information because I'm trying to get my visas going because I'm gonna end up down there and stuff like that. So talking to her about all this stuff, and like I don't know, the the inner the conversation was interesting or whatever at that time. I I went back and I looked at it, I'm like, this is such a boring conversation. What on earth was I think? But like in that I know what you were thinking.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:37

You had stars in your eyes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:39

Yeah, in that moment, I'm like, oh, we chatted up, you know, whatever. So um I raised her up a little bit. I gotta rewind, I gotta rewind. So we're at Thanksgiving dinner, and I had just gotten out of my last trash relationship, and finally, me and God had a conversation, and it was like, and I'm like, dude, I don't know what's going on. I want to serve you overseas, I don't get this whole like relationship thing. I now know confidently it's me. And I was like, but I cannot fix it. I I I'm struggling and I cannot fix it. So you are enough. And I was just like, if it's just you and me, that's cool. Because like I can't get around this thing. So I finally was just like, it's just you and me, man. Like, we're gonna we're gonna rock it. I'll go overseas and do whatever you want. Like maybe this, maybe single life's my life, I don't know. And I talked to my mom about it, and my mom's like, yeah, we we've started praying. Like, she used to pray for me and my future wife growing up or something like that. And she's like, We've started just praying.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:43

That's amazing, by the way. You're like, how lame is that? That's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:47

No, it is, it is, until you until she tells you that she stopped doing that and that now she's just praying for you because maybe God doesn't have anybody for you. And I'm like, wow, my heart is crushed all over again. Um, so I like I just was in that experience, and I'm like, it's all right, whatever. So two days later, I gotta go meet this girl. We have this conversation, and I don't know what was going on in this conversation, but like literally at the end of the conversation, the Holy Spirit is like, You need to meet this girl. Like, you need to go meet this girl. And I'm like, You're kidding me, dude. I was like, immediately, I'm thinking, I'm not ready, I'm not, I haven't fixed myself. Like, this is not the right time. I was like, I I I hear you, but this is not the right time. But I was like, All right, so I messaged the director, I said, Hey, I'll come down early and help out with paperwork and um trying to find stuff and you know, go through the house and everything like that. And he's like, Thanks. So I go down, I didn't tell her, apparently. I go down, we meet, everybody thinks that we're dating, they're trying to hook us up or set us up or whatever, and we're like And you're like, uh nah, we not together. Exactly. Richard Capface right there is exactly me. I was like, well, maybe you know, no, we're gonna do that. And Tori's like, no, we're not dating. Because she knows my past, obviously. And I'm like, Is that why you said that, Tori?

unknown: 1:49:59

What?

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:00

Is that why you said you're not dating? Because you knew his past.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:02

Well, you know, in my mind, that was called projective right there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:05

What did you say?

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:06

No, I couldn't check expose that I was interested that early on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:11

Yeah, so so anyway, so we we do that whole weekend. Um, there's like little bits of time that we get to spend together. Most of the time, she's like hiding in the back room doing some stuff for the show or something like that. So little tiny bits, you know, at the end of it, like I'm not sure what's going on. But then like when we finally say goodbye for like the last time, I was like, all right, we're gonna keep talking, basically. But I didn't see it. It was like a real hug. I think I messaged, I think I well, that's a whole nother story. We're not even gonna get into that. It was a side hug? But like, but like It was a real hug. But like we, I I don't know, did I message you? Did you mess up? You messaged me like two hours later. Oh, what's up, girl? LOL. We were like, we were like chatting a little bit, and then um, and then like we just we just started talking. Like we well, we just started texting. We were texting like from like November through December, and then like Christmas break, she she was driving all the way back to Phoenix to see her family, and like I called her on the phone for the first time. We like chatted.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:07

I was like, It's like a 12-hour drive.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:10

So how long did you guys talk?

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:12

I don't know, eight hours, a couple hours.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:14

Isn't that that's one of those conversations that after that conversation you can't fake like something's not happening? Like before that, you could be like, oh no, yeah, that's not yeah, that's the bro. Like, we're good, that's my buddy. He did, except I did. But but like for eight hours? If you talk for eight hours, you're lying to yourself, dude. So so we do that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:36

Well, not that. I uh He was lying to me. I was lying to her, not to myself. I I had this idea where I was like, you know what? I am not going to mess this up. I always take it too fast, I get too deep, I go too far, it's bad. I'm not gonna talk on the phone except for eight hours. I am going to be the slowest person. I am not going to admit feelings, I am not going to like no, I'm still taking this thing slow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:00

He's gonna say, Yeah, I'll talk to you on the phone for eight hours, but I will also tell you that yeah, I'm not interested in anybody.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:07

We're not gonna, yeah. So anyway, so we do that for a little while. We we chat, and then she comes out in like wow, February, February, and and I and I asked her to be my girlfriend. We started dating and stuff like that. Still had not told her anything though. I still hadn't told her anything.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52:23

So from my side, like I got back from California and I'm like, I don't know, like I don't know what God's plan is, but I want this guy in my life like forever. Like I don't know if that's I'm like, God, I'm okay if it's not marriage, but like I think he's really cool. This but I had this thing where I was like, if I ever like if I get married, I don't know. I when I was teaching out in California, I was very content being single. Um, one of my friends was like, you know, you're gonna have to like go out and find somebody someday. And I was like, I'm good, like, it's fine. Um, and then yeah, I come back from California and I'm like, hmm, I'm very I'm I'm interested in this. But at the same time, I was like, well, I always told God, like, if if there's anybody, like, we need to be married in freedom, like we need to be walking in freedom together. And um I remember I was like, I was like, God, this feels really fast. Like I feel, like I feel very committed to this, but it feels very fast, and it's not checking off this one box. And the Holy Spirit was very clearly like, you've trusted me in these previous situations. Um, the specific previous situation was I did randomly sporadically buy a dog once, um, and it ended up being a great situation. And God was like, You trusted me in that very quick moving thing. Um do like, do you trust me in this too? And I was like, I do. I guess we're we're gonna roll with this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:49

And so we didn't really talk about it at all. Like what do you mean in the beginning in like in the beginning?

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:54

No, no, no, no. I didn't say anything to him, but like God was just like, Yeah, this is I mean, that was probably in like December or January.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:03

And like we were doing that David Astrick thing um through Steps to Christ, I think. No, no, it wasn't Steps to Christ, it was um DA with DA, Desire of Ages. It was maybe it was actually possible.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54:15

No, that was later.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:16

Uh anyway, so we did that. So like we we had some like spiritual conversations and stuff. But it was it was never deep.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54:23

I was very clear, like, I haven't shared specifically anything about love reality or anything about like freedom from sin with him. Um, but God was like, Don't you worry, like so every everything's cool.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:37

She comes out February, we start dating, she comes out March to her sister's wedding, we spend a week together. Like, all of our relationship was long distance, so like this is like seven days of us being together basically, and like everything else has been over the phone, and um, at the end of those like seven days, I'm trying to get her to the airport as quick as I can because I have to go give plasma and uh he lived off of plasma body for like three years, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55:04

Your arms are all marked up, and it's not because of drugs.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:07

No, yeah, no, no, so and and I and I did not want her to say I could feel it, dude. Rich, she was like doing this thing where she just like stare at me and smile, and I was like, I was like, Oh girl, you gotta slow down here, like you know, um, and so like she's gonna tell you that she loves you, and you're like, I'm not trying to hear it. Did she love him at that point? I'm like, I'm trying to do like the hug, drop back, see ya, you know, and she's like holds the hug, and then she says, I love you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:33

And I was like, he goes, I'm gonna miss you so much.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:37

And and like, dude, at that point, like I just imagine in my head, like this, this, this bomb with like just an undetermined amount of time ticking down, and I was like, Okay, like so I'm like, peace, like she leaves, and we talked on the phone a little bit afterwards, and I was like, yo, I just want to be honest when I say it, and like I'm just not feeling it quite yet.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55:57

How'd you feel, Torah? Did that hurt your feelings?

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:59

No. No, she was so chill about it, but I am freaking out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:03

I feel like like in high school, I had been on the other end of that where somebody had said they loved me before I was ready, and I just like I know what it I was like, I know what it feels like to be on the other side of this, but also like I can love you without you needing to love me back.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:16

Like, we're good. So she so she like she had done some games that week that kind of scared me a little bit, and I was like, I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:23

I'm a little chaotic. So like I backed his parents' van into a post and I spilled spilled cream cheese on it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:30

Cream cheese everywhere.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:31

I dumped my like boba all over myself and the seat. Like, I just I've broken my arm like five times.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:37

She told me about all of the accidents as a kid, and I'm just like, yo, this girl's a lot. I have no insurance, I have no income, I have nothing, I cannot provide for her, I cannot take care of her. You gotta be in the hospital every other day. Yeah, so I'm like, I'm like, this is this is scary. And then she drops the I love you on the thing, and I was like, oh. So like I'm talking to my brother, I'm talking to my mom, I'm talking to my sister, and everybody's just like, you gotta make a decision. I'm like, can you just make a decision for me? You know, I'm like, somebody help me. And uh thankfully, like I talked to God about it, and he and he's just like, just take time, like just breathe, man. And so I'm like, okay, so like we didn't talk about it for for a couple months, and um I mean, I didn't bring it up again at all. She did bring it up again, and I was like, and we acted like nothing happened, and the relationship just kept going. And I was like, sure enough, I'm like, man, this is the one where like like I when I met her, I was like, oh, this is it, you know. And so I'm like, it's coming to the summer where she's gonna come out and spend like the whole summer with me, pretty much. And I'm like, I'm thinking in my head, I'm marrying this girl. That's Mrs. Benson right there. You said that's Mrs Mrs. Benson, yeah. And and I'm like, there is one thing that has got to happen, and is one thing I've never done in my entire life. I've never been fully honest with somebody about my struggles. And I was like, it's gotta happen before I can say I love you. It's gotta happen. Like it didn't happen before he said I love you. Yeah, yeah. Well, because I messed up. The plan was for it to happen, and I could I couldn't. You're like, I love you, Dang, come in. I yeah, I was like, Dang, said it. Said it too soon. Said it too soon. Now I'm now I'm in this. So spoiled again. Um so yeah, I like the countdown's coming, the end of the school year is happening, and I'm like, and I'm like, all right, like she's coming out in like a week or two. I mean, I mean it was probably like a week or two or less.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:23

It was less than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:24

And and I'm like, I have gotta say this because I am not gonna say this in person. I am too chicken. And so I do this thing where I write an email to her, and like I send this email, and I just like, dude, I'm crying as I'm writing it, I'm crying as I send it, I'm crying as I'm waiting for a response.

SPEAKER_04: 1:58:38

Yo, can we can you have it? Can we read a little bit of it? Dude, I'll find it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:43

Keep talking. So I'm like, so I'm just like I I might not even remember it completely, but I basically was like, I've had this struggle, like um, it's it's been a long time. Um basically, and uh I have to like you have to know this before we can continue the relationship because um like it's like serious for me and stuff, you know. So so like I sent her this email, I said, do not respond, do not call me, please respond by email. How long is this email? I don't want to, I don't want to get the no, like you're a piece of trash, like verbally, like that will kill me. So I was like, please respond by text, you know. And um she just responded and was like, she just text, I think she texted me. She's like, uh, all right, we're good. Can I call you now? And I was like, wait, what? And she's like, Yeah, like we can talk, you know, it's it's cool. Like, and it's cool.

SPEAKER_04: 1:59:39

I want to hear this. I want to hear this. Hold on. Did you you did you pull it up?

SPEAKER_00: 1:59:43

So he started off with like, I don't want to alarm you or scare you or make you think you did anything wrong. So right off the bat, you're good. Like, just you know, because I it's not you, it's me. I was trying to break up, you know. I had not received previously, like, this is the first email I've ever received. You know, you're just like walking along and yet you get an email. That's the way to go. I haven't seen this in a long time. He apologizes for waiting so long to share. Dude, I I think he wanted to have everything solved, you know, kind of goes through. He's like, I'm literally shaking as I write this because I know it's gonna mean the end of this.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:16

Like I get to the point, like I remember when I was a kid, I would tell girls I love them for the first time. I'd be like shaken because it's like just so much adrenaline, you know? Yeah, but like literally, I'm like shaking as I'm writing this. I'm like, I am giving up my final card, like I'm done.

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:27

He's like giving this whole intro, and then he's like, Okay, well, you're probably nervous, so I'll just get to the point. And then talks about like how he was introduced to pornography and sexual activity around 12 with no understanding about it, nobody to talk to about it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:40

Yeah, I didn't even know it was wrong. I didn't this is not this is not the part that's getting that's getting recorded and sent. I didn't even know how to masturbate when I was a kid. Like nobody taught me, I didn't see it. Like I had to like figure it out.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:51

Like, we're all like this is how life works. You don't know what it and then it happens, you're like, wow, I broke myself, and then you're like, Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:59

But like I didn't know, I didn't know it was wrong, I didn't know it was bad. Wait, how how is this part not going in? This is important because that's like too intimate, bro.

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:12

People know what pornography means. They're not like he was just looking at some pictures.

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:19

Yeah, um, yeah, so he's talking about how he fought so hard for the past six months.

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:24

Alright, hold on, hold on. Let's start over. I had bought books at Okay, we'll start over with like you got the email, and then you tell the story and go through the email as much as you can. We'll we'll cut that masturbation part out. But yes, we all have that experience. You're not the only one, Jonathan, who figured it out and you're like, oh my goodness. Okay, go ahead, Tori.

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:48

Okay, so um, I was walking, it was a graduation day, I was about to go out and visit him, and I'm walking down the street to one of my friends' house, and I get this email from him. No subject. Just starts off, hey, I don't want to alarm you or scare you or make you think anything you did was wrong. So right off the bat, you're good. And then goes into this, just goes into this whole like, I'm shaking as I'm writing this. I feel so bad about this. I've been trying to like get myself together for these last six months. Like, I was introduced to porn and sexual activity around 12. I didn't know what to do, didn't know who to talk to, didn't know it was bad, I was naive. Confused. Um, and then it's just didn't know how it was going to affect me for the rest of my life. And now I'm just stuck with it. Um like there have been times that I've been fine. There have been times um that it hasn't. I've been physically active in relationships, except when I was in the mission field and too busy for things. It was never anything that solved the problem, just being busy enough that it wasn't distracted. Um I wasn't looking for a relationship because I didn't want to damage anyone else and then I met you. Um and then he goes into how he was struggling. Um, he's finds himself falling deeper and deeper in love with me. Um, and that he's like, I can't keep this from you anymore. Um, because I want you to truly be able to know me and decide if you still love me. Um so like talks about our future, um, talks about journaling. He talks about how he's gotten books, how he's trying to get outside help, how he's trying to fix this. And the end, like it's just I'm reading it and I'm just like, oh, I'm so sad for you.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:24

Like, this is just like oh you were you were never sad for you, you were never sad for you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:31

No, that's awesome. Why would I why would I be sad for me? I I don't know. Like, I'm just like most people would be like, oh yeah, but like I felt like it was okay. One, I've been listening to enough like freedom stuff. Like, I'm like, if you're not struggling, if you're not saying and talking about how you're free from porn, you're probably stuck in it. So like I've been waiting for this to like come up, kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:57

So this wasn't like a shock. This wasn't like, oh wow.

unknown: 2:04:01

No.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:02

It was, and I was just like, and then he's like, I'm so sorry. I don't feel like I deserve anything. I'm selfish, like I feel impure, I feel guilt, shame, weakness. I'm so sorry for all of these things. Then he goes, if you could just respond to this as an email or a message, so you can get all your thoughts organized unless you really want to talk face to face. I'm just ashamed, very vulnerable. Please don't call me, etc. And I'm like, oh. He's like, I don't know how to end this or what it even means or what it expects, but I'm just sorry from the bottom of my heart. I never wanted to hurt you and never want to ever again.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04:33

What a sweetheart.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04:34

It's like a hole, like it's a hole. Yeah. It's there's a lot to it. And I'm just reading it and I'm just like, I just yeah, like that's that's gotta be painful and heavy to carry. Like I don't know. There's just like there and the the secret keeping aspect of it is just makes it even heavier. You know, like it's it's one thing when you're in your struggles, but it's another thing when it becomes a shame thing that you're hiding from everything. I cheated in high school one time. Um, I cheated on one English test. And um I never confessed because, well, I'm confessing now, but I never confessed because I thought that it was gonna ruin my reputation and I was just ashamed of that. But man, it ate me alive for years. Like just feel and I know that's like but I was like, Well, no, this is important.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:28

How did you how did you cheat on the test? You had the answers under your on your phone or something? How'd you do it?

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:34

I took the test late, nobody was really watching. The the test was basically the study guide. I had done the study guide, I could have taken two seconds to memorize it. I just didn't think that it was important enough to memorize. So I just had the answers of the study key next to me while I was doing the test and nobody's off. So part like I should have been caught.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:51

But and was it worth it for the years of guilt, condemnation, and shame for that grade?

SPEAKER_00: 2:05:59

And also, like, I I feel like I was so trusted that like nobody was really watching that, and so like fair. I just I felt like it was a lie to myself, and so I'm just like that's my small comparison of my like I've had other things that I've had guilt, shame, and condemnation over, but just to imagine him writing this and just to feel like that much pain and angst in trying to share this, I was just like, wow, that really hurts me for you. But also, this is what God was talking about. He said that I didn't need to worry about it because eventually there would be an in, and this is my in. How can I free you?

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:36

She never responded by email.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:38

So just to be clear, yeah, did not respond.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:41

I texted. She texted me and said, Can we talk?

SPEAKER_04: 2:06:44

And I was like, So when you got that text, were you like, it's over, or were you like, This is good news?

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:50

I I fully expected it to be over. I was like, There, like, nobody, nobody lives from this, nobody survives this. Like, it's it's done, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:57

Like, um, I was like, I've seen so much freedom from this. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:02

Yeah, so so she so she's like she's acting all chill, and I'm like, all right, well, you know, whatever. And uh she basically was like, we chatted, and she basically was like, if you want help, I'll help. If you don't want help, I believe you got this, like, and I'll pray for you, basically.

SPEAKER_00: 2:07:20

And I was like, I feel like I was just at a place of like I didn't take it personally.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:07:28

I knew that it had nothing to do with me. I mean, like you can tell in the email, like he was 12. Clearly. Like I was like, That's so crazy. I was not a part of your life at all when you were in that point. I was like, this is this is like I did not see it as something that was associated even associated to me. I was like, this is clearly just like a pattern and an addiction that has yeah, it's not my fault.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:53

Like, yeah, like dude, and I'm telling you, Rich, I had never told anybody this before in my life. Like, I may have alluded to it in a conversation with one or two best friends when I was younger, but everybody always played it off as like, oh yeah, like it's like everybody, everybody does it, you know. And I'm like, yeah, like just silent in the background, you know. But like I had never told or confessed this to anybody because I didn't I didn't know why. I just felt so much guilt and shame, right? And like I never even talked to my parents about this, and and it like this so Tori so Tori responds with that, and I was just like, that's just love. And I'm like, I'm like crying because of that. I'm like, this is this is crazy. Um, she ends up putting me on Tyler Morrison's uh podcast. I listened to his podcast that night, or what like whatever night we had this conversation. I listened to his podcast and I started at like midnight. I I start Morgan's next, and I'm like listening till 4 a.m. and I'm like, they have the same thing.

SPEAKER_04: 2:08:53

Did it grab you right away?

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:54

Like right from the beginning, where you like No, no, but I was like, but they have something I don't have. They have what Cindy Peterson had, they have what Demon Garcia had, but it's something I don't have. So I'm like, what what is it? And so I'm listening and I'm like, it's starting to make sense. It's starting, it's it sounds beautiful, and it's starting to make sense, and I'm like, something else is going on, and so um do you know I struggle like I listen to more and more podcasts. Tori came out, she's like, if you want to talk to Tyler, you can. Um, I ended up talking to Tyler on the phone.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:26

I'm like trying to give him like space too, kind of like to to process these things. Like, I have a hard time sharing sometimes with people. Like, I came into Freedom and I was like, I don't I was so scared of saying the wrong things and like being questioned too much that I was like that's still me.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09:48

Is it because like like scary people from LRT or scary people like no scary people from the legalistic bubble? Oh so like if you're in church and you're like and someone's talking about like man, we just gotta battle it every day, and you're like, well, actually, we're free and you don't want to say that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:10:04

Yeah, I'm not gonna go say that. Yeah. Like, I think I will say if I'm the person preaching, I will say it. But I have a harder time, like, I don't know. So I was trying, like, I'm like giving him him space to process. I'm like, I don't want you to feel like ashamed with me, you know, like because he sends this email of like, I don't want to, like, I'm so ashamed of talking about this. So I'm like, okay, like let's let's kind of journey through this. And I feel like it was like, it was it was a bit of a journey before we were really like talking, talking about it and walking in freedom together. But I also felt like the whole time I was like, well, the Holy Spirit told me that like this wasn't this wasn't something I needed to be worried about. So we're just gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:49

Yeah, so like so I talked to Tyler, and Tyler's like, You got your Bible on you? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, Alright, let's take a whack at this thing, you know. I but I told Tyler, Tyler's the second person I ever told about this. Like, I told Tori, I you know, 18 years of not telling anybody, and I tell Tori, and then I tell Tyler, and I'm like, Well, for two people down, and none of them have run away. Like, maybe I'll be okay, you know. Um, and uh, so he's just like, we gotta just reframe like the gospel, man. He's like, You you gotta understand the gospel. And so, like, he goes over like Romans 8.1, he's going over like the uh Proverbs 24, 16, the righteous man, and the that blew my mind. He's like, the righteous man falls sometimes. I'm like, oh yeah, I've got this verse memorized, man, but he stands back up. And he's like, you know, he's righteous, right? And I was like, What? I'm like, hmm, that's not it's not about the standing back up, and he's like, no, dude, he's called righteous, and he fell, but he's still called righteous. And I was like, whoa. And so he like he breaks out a lot more verses about that and like our sonship in Christ and like co-heirs with Christ, and you know, like that God has good works waiting for us, all this different stuff. He breaks out, like he goes down to like freedom from freedom from sin, not under the law, alive in Christ, you know, full of the Holy Spirit. He talks about, he's like, Hey, you've been baptized? I'm like, Yeah, I've been baptized. He's like, What does that mean? I was like, means I'm on God's team, man. He's like, no, dude. He's like, that happened before you were baptized, my dude. He's like, when you're baptized, like you are like the Holy, you are dying to self, coming to life in Christ. The Holy Spirit is coming and like living in you, working through you, changing your life, all this different stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12:34

And I'm just like, Are you sure it's not just my public declaration of following Jesus? I'm like, because that's what I thought it was.

SPEAKER_02: 2:12:40

Yeah, I'm like, all right. So like I hear all this stuff and I'm like, this sounds really good. This sounds, hmm, this is all from the Bible, hmm, this is this is interesting. And then he's like, Do you like he's like, like, when's the last time like you read through the epistles? I was like, hmm, bro, I don't touch the epistles. I was like, those things are confusing. It's like all this, like, someday in the future, it's gonna be so perfect and everything. He's like, dude, and like he's like goes back through everything. He's like, Man, it's now. He's like, You're like, you're free now, like you're all this different stuff. And I'm like, he said, just go back through the epistles, put your name in it, read it, claim it, and live it. And I was like, all right, so like this is like the beginning of the summertime. Sometime I start slowly going through the epistles, like Philippians and Ephesians, and I like he's like, read Romans. He's like, read Romans with this, like from this viewpoint, tell me that it doesn't make sense. Because I was like, Romans is the hardest of the books. I was like, I don't understand any of it. Romans 7 is like, I feel Romans 7 so hard and like all this different stuff. And and he's like, read it with this lens, man. And so I went back and I started reading it. I'm like, every single book I went through, I'm like, bro, this thing's checking out. Bro, this thing's checking out. I'm like, this thing's checking out. I'm like, what what what did what did Cindy Peterson have? What did that one have? What did like they had the Holy Spirit guiding them? It's not my checklist, it's not my to-do list, it's not me filling in the sheet. It's Jesus, it's the Holy Spirit, it's me waking up in the morning and the Holy Spirit being like, this is what we're doing today, and me being like, all right, let's do it. And it and I was like, when I saw that, I was like, this is just unreal. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So I'm like just pumping jazz about that. I'm like, all right, and she's still talking all chill, like, oh yeah, yeah, it's pretty good, right? Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:14:25

But our Lord Jesus Christ just blessed us in Christ. Every speech.

SPEAKER_00: 2:14:30

I also feel like like that. Was one of like the first times that I was really sharing. And so I was like, I don't know, trying not to go too hard, trying not to like, I'm like, is it is it landing? Yeah, I'm not as like she's like, she's a little timid.

SPEAKER_02: 2:14:50

I'm like, uh and I'm like, Who do you think I'm like trying to figure this thing out? I'm like, all right, we're not under the law. I'm like, what does that mean for Sabbath? I'm like, and we like talked about that one time, and it's like just because you're not under it doesn't mean like that the Holy Spirit's not gonna guide you in it. Like, and I'm like, oh, that makes sense. So like the Sabbath is made for us, like it's it's a blessing to us, all this different stuff. I'm like, well, what about pork? You know, we're not under the law. And the whole thing, though, this whole thing came from when I was a kid. Have you never eaten pork?

SPEAKER_00: 2:15:21

No, I've eaten pork. I have never eaten pork.

SPEAKER_04: 2:15:24

Oh, I was gonna say, like, you never had pork, but you were on the gange, but you never had pork.

SPEAKER_02: 2:15:31

Dude, this whole thing, this whole thing started from when I was a kid. I remember reading, like, in in Romans when it's like, you know, you're not under the law, and I'm like, what? And then like the church said, Well, that's referring to error the ceremonial law, but like the Ten Commandments, we are still under those. And so I had that view in my head, and that's why Romans couldn't make sense. That's why nothing could make sense, and I'm just like, someday, someday, brother, you know, and and so when I was able to see that, I'm like, oh, this is a completely different world, man. I was like, this, this is this is not just like okay gospel, you know. And and and and it was it was that plus when I told Tori this stuff, she looked at me with nothing but love. And I was like, man, I bet if I had told my parents this, they would have looked at me with nothing but love. And yet, like what the only thing I know about God is that like any amount of love we can find on this earth is like uncomparable to the amount of love God has for us. And so I'm like, dude, if Tori can see through this whole thing and she doesn't see me any differently than she did before, I was like, God cannot see me any differently than he did before. And it just shook me. Like, I was like, I was just on fire, man. I was like, this is crazy. Let's go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:17:01

And then you guys were like, well, then we might as well just get married.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:06

Yeah, well, two days, not two days, probably five days after this conversation, this email that he sends me, yeah, and this like couple texting. I fly out there and I get there, and we're staying with his cousins.

SPEAKER_02: 2:17:21

At this point, well, at this point, everything has changed. I didn't go to Bolivia. I I finished the project. Oh, yeah. Or I was still wrapping up the project, but at this point, it's like, I'm not going to Bolivia. I'm gonna be looking to go somewhere else. It looks like the Philippines now.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:36

So And he's supposed to leave for the Philippines in January. Um, he we've been dating for five months, but we've been in person together for maybe 12 days, like very small. Um, and he goes, I don't think that I can wait until after I get back from the Philippines to marry you. And I was like, that's in like a couple months. I like text my sister and I was like, Is it is it absolutely insane to marry somebody within like five months of dating? And she was like, I mean, she was like, I mean, it might be a little. She was like, but they say if you know, you know. I'm like, yeah, I was like, I don't feel like I see that happening. I'm like, I feel like I want to marry him, but I also feel like it's gonna happen after he gets back from the Philippines because I don't know what's happening in our lives right now.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18:34

So she tells me, like, I don't even like want to really get engaged until like after a year of dating.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18:38

And I'm like, oh like let me just tell you I would come to regret that statement within a couple within a couple within a month.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18:46

She's like, Yeah, when we get engaged, and I'm like, you said after a year, girl, we got a long time to go. Like, but we spent the whole summer together. Like, she was living at my she literally came out to Michigan and like lived in my aunt's basement for like most of the summer because like she's got summers off. My aunt has a basement, my aunt's super chill. She's like, sure, I'll have her own thing. I'm like, all right. So um, yeah, so we spent the whole summer together, and it was just like and then it was like, Yeah, we're gonna get married, and roses and all that beauty, and you know, cupids over there, just like arrow after arrow, just you know. Sure.

SPEAKER_04: 2:19:20

Well, you're you're alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:23

Like you were actually alive.

SPEAKER_04: 2:19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19:27

So after this, so after this, I um then we went back to long distance. Well, then we went back to long distance. Uh, we had a great summer road trip. She went back out to work. Um, I spent that last semester, that fall semester, I spent wrapping up the plane project um to go to Bolivia. And then I'm like, all right, I got um that fall, I actually went out instead of flying the plane for the first time, first flight, instead of flying, I go out to propose to my girlfriend. And the the guy I built the plane with, he's like, Man, you're crazy. He's like, I can't believe it. He didn't know I was gonna propose. He's like, I can't believe you just go see your girlfriend instead of fly this plane. I'm like, if you only know, dude. So like I go propose, and then I find finally like solidify how long I'm gonna be in the Philippines for and stuff like that. And then we do the Philippines long distancing, come back, get married, and life's been kind of wild ever since. But in that process, like that summer that she spent living with my aunt, um, and I was like around my aunt's house. I was doing a lot of flight training and stuff like that at the same time as wrenching. And uh like I started talking to my aunt about this stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 2:20:32

And oh no, no, no, no, no, don't tell that story yet. We're gonna catch up. We're gonna get that story.

SPEAKER_02: 2:20:37

I started talking to my aunt about it, and and it's just cool to see like it how it carries on, how like the truth and the gospel just keeps keeps on moving, like it doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20:49

And and uh I felt like that was really cool for me because I don't like I've because I have had a harder time sharing, like God's even taken and multiplied the little, yeah, and shown that everything comes back to the street.

SPEAKER_02: 2:21:04

Then she keeps talking and sharing with the people that she she meets, and like it's just like it's just a fire that just doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_04: 2:21:10

We all hung out last weekend in Michigan. Um, was that the first time you've been around a bunch of people that were like that believed that like what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_02: 2:21:19

And dude, I will say I was so like I wasn't nervous, um, but I was like, I normally hang out in the background, like I'm not up front. Um, so I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go there. Like, you know, I just got off work, I'm like, this is cool, you know, whatever. I'm gonna go there and just sit in the back and like enjoy it and stuff. I walk in the front door, I'm like, there's no way these guys know me because I've been on the the Vespers, like the the internet church. I I used to do the Death of Life podcasts, like when I was when I was working construction, I like listen to you in the backhoe while I'm working all day long and stuff like that. And um, but I'm like, these guys don't know me. Like, Richard called me out the first time I got on on internet church, and he's like, Oh, you're Tory, you're Tori's boyfriend, you know. Like, besides that, like I never put like my camera on again because I was like, Because I'm like, Richard's gonna call me out. I don't want to do that. So like I showed up thinking my my aunt, she posts in the love reality group chat. Tori's been this thing for a long time. I was like, they're all gonna just get, you know, and and I'm the first one on the door, and Richard is like. Jonathan Benson. And I'm like, how does he know me? I was like, this is wild. And then like getting to actually talk to like the people that I've listened to for years. Like, I mean, I've been through the move and I've been through like death to life. And I've listened to like everything, man. And I'm like being able to talk to Jonathan and like just taught gospel, like meet Justin Cood, hang out with Richard. And then like, not even just you guys, but like the people that are in the community that I've like have been like reading and stuff, listening to their death to life stories and everything, like meeting them and like being like just seeing how they are like in Christ now. It's just like it was just on it was just it like I told Tori when we left, I was like, that was that was literally heaven. Like that's heaven, like just communing together, fellowshipping together, sharing testimonies, like the overcome sin by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of our testimonies. And I was like, God's blood is helping, and and we are sharing, and it is just so good.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23:30

Like a couple years ago, that verse threw me because for so long I was like, Yeah, the testimonies in the Bible, and they were like, No, like your testimony, and I was like, Yeah, our testimonies? Like it was a game changer for me.

SPEAKER_04: 2:23:45

Yeah, I love that. I I think that when you're at like a different church or people that you don't know of like if they're have an Adventist background, you don't know like what kind of gospel they believe. So you're kind of playing double dutch. You're like trying to figure out like when can I get in? Should I get in? And then when you're around a bunch of people who are just like they're all meeting there because they're sold out for the gospel, like that's their life. Like they flew in, you know, or they drove hours, they think they want to be there. It's just like you can exhale and you don't have to be on guard, just talk about it. And I think that's that's what the beautiful thing is. Like, and we're gonna be there, and the whole purpose of us being together is we're gonna talk about how good God is and all of these things, and yeah, man, it's it's it's so much light.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24:33

I literally left, and I was like, I feel like that, yeah. He said, like, this is this is heaven, and I left, and I was like, We live in a situation, like currently, our physical location is in a situation where that could be every weekend, yeah. And I think that like there's so much potential for living in the spirit together.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:58

Here, here's the good thing you guys are a city on a hill, people see your good works, and they glorify your father in heaven. Everywhere you go, it's light, and you have the blessing of being around young people, older people, and you can just move with freedom and be salt and light, and uh, you don't have to explain everything from A to Z. You just have joy in your heart and in your life, and that's rare. Like, what's common is oh man, I had a tough week, oh pray for me, brother. Like, that's what's common. What's rare is yeah, sure, the week is hard, but I've the joy of the Lord is in my heart, like I'm not anxious for anything, and so you guys get the privilege to do that, and um, yeah, so how we wrap this up, where are we taking you back to, Tori? Let's say I don't know, senior year of high school. What would you if you got to put your arm around this girl and you got to minister to her?

SPEAKER_00: 2:26:09

I felt so much comparison and need to be perfect, and I if I could just like give me a hug and tell me that I'm loved. Like you're you're covered, you're good, like you don't have to do, you know. I wanted to, I needed to have all the perfect grids. I needed like I remember having a conversation with God being like, okay, cool, I'm human. Like, why did you not make me an angel? I can't handle not being perfect, and to just be like, God loves you, like you are enough and you are loved.

SPEAKER_03: 2:26:52

Let's go.

SPEAKER_04: 2:26:53

Jonathan, let's say we go back to the jungle, and you're in the jungle. You get to put your arm around this guy who's you know realized that he's the common denominator and all of his problems, and you get to put your arm around this kid, what would you what would you say to him?

SPEAKER_02: 2:27:10

I think like the two things that have hit me the hardest have been like just I feel like I feel I I this has been said on podcasts before, but like I feel like um everybody says God loves you, and I and when it came down to it, um the struggle for me was like understanding that God liked me. And I like it, and that was like when I heard that for the first time, I was like, dude, when I heard that, when I saw the love Tori had for me, like later on, like it was like man, like the love is so deep. Like the love is so much deeper than like you can even imagine. And then the other thing was like the Holy Spirit is like the way, man. Like, like I spent so many years just being like, all right, how am I gonna overcome this today? Or what am I gonna fix in myself tomorrow? And and and having all of these things, like this whole smorgasbord of things I gotta fix in myself, and and knowing, like seeing now, reading gospel now, and seeing like that God died. He said, It is better that I go so that you can have the spirit. Like, sometimes I'm like, I think, like, man, it would be so much cooler if Jesus was here. And I'm like, no, he literally says, like, it's better that I go so that everybody can have the spirit. And so, like, now it's like the spirit is your friend, man. He like lean on him, trust in him more than your feelings, more than anything that's going on in your life. Let him guide you, let him fix you or correct you or change you into that character of Christ because like that's his job. Like, God gave him that job. That's not your job to fix yourself to be like Jesus. And so, like, his love is so deep, and the Holy Spirit is so good. And when we like when we can lean on those two things and know that, like throw those feelings out and just know the truth that the Bible says, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:29:27

Love it. Uh, I feel like we've been hanging out for a total of maybe, I don't know, 12 hours together, maybe more, maybe 14. But I feel like we're family. I feel like I know you guys and I see uh your good works. I'm glorifying God, and I think um it's just gonna be more and more. And uh yeah, jealous of those people that get to be ministered to by you guys up there, and we're just gonna keep on hearing more stories of uh the fruit from your life. So thank you for uh sharing your story, man. Appreciate y'all.