Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#251 Izzy: A Testimony Of Identity, Forgiveness, And Joy
We trace Izzy’s journey from anxious validation-seeking to a settled identity in Christ, moving from an “okay gospel” to real freedom where feelings serve rather than rule. Practical shifts around forgiveness, thought life, relationships, and provision show what abundance looks like day to day.
• early family story and separation anxiety shaping control and people pleasing
• feeling like an outsider at church and chasing validation at school
• teen dating patterns, body image pressure, and conflict cycles
• baptism and settling for an “okay gospel” without freedom
• Annie’s mentorship making faith personal and embodied
• Bees and Karen reframing identity, forgiveness, and feelings not being lord
• practicing truth: holding thoughts captive and choosing the fruits of the Spirit
• visible change in attitude, conflict, and joy in ordinary tasks
• Link’s journey to shared belief and moving toward marriage
• provision mindset shift, money anxiety easing, and redeemed time
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SPEAKER_01:But I still kind of felt like I was forcing God's hand a bit. Like he had to love me, but um I didn't feel forgiven, I didn't feel treasured. I definitely didn't feel free. Um, and when feelings were lowed for me, um, that unforgiveness and anxiety and the attempt to be perfect and kind of ahead of the crowd, um, so that my life was worth it. That ruled me.
SPEAKER_04:Yo, welcome to the Death to Live Podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's guest is Izzy, and I had heard about Izzy. I'd watched this testimony of her preaching at her church, and I was like, yo, who is this? And my brother Bees, he was like, Oh, oh, you want to know who that is, who's preaching hot lava fire gospel. That's Izzy. And I was like, Oh, word, she she wanna be on the podcast? And he was like, Yeah, and that was like a year and a half ago. And uh, you know how these things work. It's the perfect timing for her to be on the podcast, even though we've been going back and forth for a long time. Um, this this is now the time. Okay, it's that's a like podcast time. Izzy is from Australia, and she is a beautiful person who has experienced the love of God, and I love her testimony, and I love her heart, and I can't wait to see all the beautiful works that God has planned for her to walk in. And you'll be blessed by this testimony, and uh I just love to see the fruit of uh Karen and Bees and their ministry and the soon the fruit of Izzy. It's gonna be awesome. So buckle up strap in. Love y'all, appreciate, appreciate y'all. Here is Izzy. All right, I was just talking to my friend Karen, and I said, Hey, I'm about to do a podcast with Izzy, and she said, Really? That's not Karen's accent. She's like, I'm so excited to hear that. And I was like, Yeah, I'm so excited uh to hear it too. Uh so now we have it. Izzy from Australia. This is our first time. I know we've messaged, but this is our first time speaking like that. I've seen you. But we've been circling this for a while, right? It's been at least a few months, if not even last year. I think I'd messaged you to talk to you a little bit about it. So um as you thought about this, where where where is the starting point of your story? Where where are you taking us to?
SPEAKER_01:Um I think probably starting from the beginning. Probably the most helpful. Um, what's a good place to start? I've been watching the sound of music, so that doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_04:Of course. And that's the joke I use in every podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah, where where where did where's your beginnings? Where are you from born and raised in Australia?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I am. I am born and raised in Sibling, Australia. Um, and yeah, I think it would probably start with um my parents, actually. So my parents had me when they were very young. Um they, I think my dad was 20, my mom was 21 or 22. Um, I was unplanned, and um they weren't married. Um my dad kind of grew up, like he grew up in the Adventist faith. Um, and my mom kind of came from, and he's just Aussie, and my mom came from um like more of a Catholic sort of background, and she is Chilean. Um Australia actually as uh like when she was very, very young, um, from Chile with her family.
SPEAKER_04:Do people from Chile I'm guessing they have darker skin? Do they do they have darker skin or lighter skin?
SPEAKER_01:It's kind of a mix, um, but lighter is kind of usually it's a bit lighter, but I think it kind of depends. Uh like I know my great-grandfather had dark skin because he was like indigenous Chilean. Um, so he he was like very dark, but I think it can depend. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Do you do you speak Spanish?
SPEAKER_01:I speak a little bit, but I'm better at understanding. Like I could last.
SPEAKER_04:When someone from Australia speaks Spanish, do they have an Australian accent with their Spanish?
SPEAKER_01:That is a good question. I think I don't know, maybe not me. I I kind of put on a bit of an accent, I think, just from like family and that sort of thing. Um but yes, so that was kind of them. Um and I think because like my like parents were very young, there was a lot of pressure. Well, there was some pressure like from the outside to not have me to kind of choose to abort me and that sort of thing, um, which obviously they didn't because I'm here. But um yeah, I think that was kind of like the situation, and then um my mum kind of became an Adventist. There was like pressure from the church because of the circumstances to become an Adventist. Um, and she kind of developed her own faith from there. Um, but yeah, I would say that's kind of where it started. So very young parents, um, always very loving towards me. Um, we had a really good relationship. Um they are like very intelligent people. Um, my dad is an engineer, my mom's a lawyer, so they kind of have that kind of I don't know, they're just I feel like they always raise me that way to like, you know, love learning and that sort of thing. Um I spent a lot of time with my grandparents because of it, um, on both sides because of the circumstances. Um and yeah, I would say they were they were my parents were also very nerdy people, so that's I kind of class.
SPEAKER_04:Very nerdy?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, very nerdy.
SPEAKER_04:Like they're just dorks or like they're smart? Like what is nerdy in the Australian context mean?
SPEAKER_01:I would say they are like nerdy smart, like they have they have a lot of knowledge about like lots of niche things, but I would say like you know, they they really love reading, um and I don't know, like just the kind of like films and stuff they were interested in, like kind of more sci-fi stuff, but like give me an example, or like they're Star Wars or Lord of the Rings? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Both Star Trek?
SPEAKER_01:That may that was probably more so my dad, and kind of his family, I would say.
SPEAKER_04:But um did they pass that on to you? Are you a a Star Wars and uh Lord of the Rings nerd?
SPEAKER_01:I am, I am, which I I don't know a whole lot of people my age similar, like who find that similarly interesting, but yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_04:Which one which is your favorite thing to nerd out on that's like that like culturally like uh star like movie or uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:It's I find like more so dissecting films and like understanding and interpreting films, like I'll be like, oh yeah, and then this happened, and then this there's this extra meaning behind this, and like did you see how that like this this angle kind of showed this and kind of more dissecting that sort of thing? That's that would be a more so a me thing. Um but yeah, very cool. So yeah, so that that was them, and then um when I was um so yeah, so that was kind of them, but um in their kind of when they did get married and they were married for a few years, um, they they would have these like very kind of intense kind of yelling arguments. Um and yeah, it was just like wasn't really super functional. So um they separated when I was six. Um we kind of split time 50-50. Um, I was like a bit sad and a bit confused at the time, but like even though I was six, I was like, this is for the best, like I I know this is for the best, and like I think this needed to happen. Um and yeah, I remember like in terms of like where God was, because I was kind of like going to church and that sort of thing before this. Um but it I don't know, there there was it didn't feel super personal, but I remember like when they separated. Uh I remember praying and I felt like God was there, like prayer, like praying by myself. But yeah, I felt like God was there, but he didn't feel close. Um, and I emphasize he didn't feel close. It's not that he wasn't close, but the feel is very important. It's a very key thing I would say throughout the story. Um and yeah, I would say like I I felt like even young, like I felt the need to kind of protect both parents um and kind of look after them and care for them. Um even though like they were my parents, and they were still very loving and obviously very caring of me as well. But it just felt like this was like a responsibility that I had to take on now. Um, and so after that, there was like very long custody battle over me. It was very messy. Um, I didn't see my dad for about six months or so during that time. Um and yeah, god faith, it just didn't really feel like that was a thing for me at that point. Um yeah, it just like not that it felt like it was missing, it just like wasn't even on my radar.
SPEAKER_04:How old were you?
SPEAKER_01:Um I probably was about like seven or eight, maybe seven. Yeah. So yeah, probably a few years there where it just wasn't really um, yeah, just wasn't really a thing for me. Um yeah, and then my parents um they like wouldn't be in the same room together. Like there was, I think, a lot of um hurt and a lot of kind of hostility there. Um but after that I kind of developed or during this I developed quite strong separation anxiety. Um so when I went to school, things were fine, um, but I would sleep in my parents' bed. I remember like I would follow my mom around, like even to when she would go to the bathroom, or like when they would like be throwing rubbish out, like in the big bin, I would be like, this is freaky. Um so yeah, that was like quite strong from that point. Um, and kind of about that time, like seven or eight, my mum had repartnered, and I gained three steps siblings, one same age as me, and then um another one a few years older, and then another one a few years older. Um, so that was kind of another adjustment of like being this only child to now like having kind of a bigger family um sure. Um, and I would say the like separation anxiety was still kind of there in terms of like sleeping in my bed and I don't know, just yeah, but I I would say it became more generalized of like general worries and and that sort of thing. Um I was a very like I as a kid, I was very giggly um and I loved people. I was kind of a nerd, like I got called that at school, which I didn't really mind because I was like, yeah, like I know that like I do love learning and I like to do these things, so it's not really a thing, but naturally I kind of got picked on for that during my like primary school years, which is kind of like before your do you have primary school?
SPEAKER_04:Is it we call it elementary like elementary is like K through like sixth fifth grade and then sixth through eighth is like middle school and then high school.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so it'd be like elementary school. That was very much me. Um and I like had kind of crooked teeth, which like didn't help me out, and I was like, I had like lanky arms and legs, but like I had like a bit of a tummy. Um and that was like, you know, I spent time with my grandparents a lot, and they would just like feed me these lovely sweets, which is so yum. And it was a lot of it was my fault of me like sneaking into the biscuit like jar or like going getting ice block or that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Um getting what ice what? Like an ice block, like a ice block, is that like a popsicle?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's yeah. Um, or like just having a lot of dessert, that sort of thing. So yeah, I was a bit on the chubby side, um, which I was aware of like from seven years old. I was not that it was like a problem, but I know like my step siblings just naturally were thin and they did heaps of exercise, like they did heaps of activity, like sport activity, whereas I didn't do that as much. And so I would be like, Oh, I'm gonna eat the same about as you, and then yeah, I was well didn't didn't burn it off as much. Um, but yeah, it was something that I was a bit more self-conscious of from about seven years old. Um, and yeah, with my dad at that time, I was still going to church kind of intermittently because I wasn't seeing him too often, kind of every second weekend or so. Um, but when I did go to church, I felt like an outsider. Um yeah, it it just feels like an outsider. I think because I wasn't going regularly. Like, you know, naturally and I also didn't go to an adventure school. So um I think naturally like you just form friendships with the people that you go to school with, and then naturally, like you're going to school with them, and then you see them at church, and so then you have like your kind of groups, and so I had some friendships, but um, some people left, and then other people got closer, and and so I was always kind of like felt like a bit of an outsider, felt a bit alone. Um, and I was I didn't feel super um like extrovert. I mean, I I'm kind of a quiet extrovert, I would say, but I didn't feel super um confident to go and like make all of these new friends.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um so yeah, I just I just that was kind of like my church experience. Um and yeah, I um I remember like I would much prefer to go hang out with my dad's friends who were kind of in their mid to late 20s, and like I would just much rather have conversations with them versus kids my own age. And I think that like I would like play board games with them and that sort of thing. I think I just felt a bit more mature because I was spending more time with adults than I was with like kind of kids my own age, I guess. Um and yeah, I think like always along alongside that I felt this really strong desire to please and try really hard um and I guess achieve in a way. Um, and I totally put that pressure on myself, like my parents, even though they're like, you know, very intelligent people, they never put that pressure on myself, on me of like you need to do this and you need to be at this level, sort of thing. Like they would give me I don't know, like we have interesting conversations about learning or different topics, and they teach me things, but I lacked that. It wasn't something that I felt like you need to get to this benchmark. But um it wasn't until more recently that I realized that um kind of consciously and subconsciously, I was trying to prove to them that it wasn't a mistake to keep me, basically, that the sacrifices that they made, like with work and with their own kind of social lives and that sort of thing, that it was worth it to not kind of abort me basically. Oh wow. Um yeah, and when I didn't meet their expectations or like I behaved badly, uh, which it didn't happen very often, obviously, because of the people blazing and that sort of thing, but internally I felt like I was failing at my life purpose of proving my existence. I would just be distraught. I was like very sensitive about it because it felt like, oh, you're you know, this purpose of yours, you're you're not meeting. Like, and no one was telling me that. I was telling me that. Um but yeah, so kind of with all this, I was quite sensitive. Um, and I was definitely viewed as a sensitive kid. Um, I'd be quick to worry or cry, and kind of that alongside of this kind of anxiety that I carried as well. Um, that made things tricky. And so this was kind of all around when I would have been like between seven and maybe ten years old. Kind of all of the stuff happening. Um, I was still struggling, like around 10, still struggling to sleep in my bed sometimes. Um, there were lots of nights that I would actually like throw up from the anxiety. Um, so that we had like a towel next to my bed that just became like like it just became standard because it was like, oh yes, we know what to expect sort of thing. Um and yeah, I still felt this big responsibility to kind of manage my parents' relationship or lack of relationship, I guess, um, to kind of manage the dynamics and the feelings that they had towards each other and and that sort of thing. It still felt like very much my job to do.
SPEAKER_04:Um there's this um there's this thing that we when kids are growing up, they're they're self-centered in a way because you know they don't know how any other way to be. And that's why so much of the time when there's a divorce, they end up believing. That it was their fault. Did you struggle with believing that it was your fault?
SPEAKER_01:No, I I never thought it was my fault. I think because I would see sometimes like how bad it would get. Um, I kind of thought, like, no, this needs to happen. Like, I kind of knew it wasn't my fault, but it did very much feel like like if one parent says something else about the other, or if there's just like upset feelings, or whatever it is, like that's your responsibility to hold. Like you need to hold that and kind of like help them with that. Which, like, obviously, when you're young, and they they didn't tell me like this is your job to fix at all. It just felt like I need this is my responsibility, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I got you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and so this kind of all continued until I would say I hit high school. Um, and I and then once I hit high school, which is grade seven, I went to an all-girls Catholic school. Um, and I would say God and faith still felt very distant, um, not super relatable. I still felt like an outsider at church. Um in kind of my early teen years, I would go to cyber school, uh, which was after church in our kind of church. Um, and I would just sit by myself. And then as soon as it finished, as soon as cyber school finished, I would like gun it out of there because I just felt very aware of my loneliness. Well, not loneliness, but just being alone, I guess. Um, and then we we'd there'd kind of be the core group who'd be like kind of over to the side, and I just used to think like this is so embarrassing, like I'm just here by myself in cyber school, and then there's the core group who had like I don't know, 15 people maybe. I just thought, oh, this is just like hurts the soul. Yeah, but um, yeah, I I felt I would say kind of at this time I um felt a very strong urge to kind of continue seeking validation about my character, my appearance from friends. I mean, I went to an all-girls school, so I didn't really have much male interaction, but like when there was a little bit, I was like, oh yes, I need to like get some validation from them. Um and I was probably I don't know how obvious it was externally, but internally, I was probably what nowadays they'd call a pick me. I don't know if you've heard this term before.
SPEAKER_04:I have. But I is it just the the girl who just needs uh validation and so always wants to be number one and always wants to be chosen. That is that's the general idea, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I I think um especially with teachers, um, I was like a teacher's pet 100%. And I knew I was, like I wasn't unaware either. I knew I was, but I was like, I I like this dynamic where like even if I wasn't their like favorite favorite, I know we're we're quite good in like a professional way, of course, but like I would see them and I'd ask them how their weekend was and that sort of thing. Like I was a good student, I was always on their good side. Um, and that 100% became part of my identity of this like teacher's pet seeking external validation from other people, um, and who I was, and basically if I was okay, it was dependent on how my parents viewed me, how teachers viewed me, how I was with my friends. If I was if there was something going on with any of those, then I wasn't okay. And there was something wrong with who I was, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:That does make sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so I would have been about 14 um at this point. Um, I had curiosities about God, but I I would ask questions to people my age at church um around like, what do you feel when you pray? Like, what is that? And how do you do it? And they just didn't really know, they wouldn't give me an answer. Um, and I remember kind of almost being a bit like intellectual about it. I was like, like, what's does God exist? Like, I kind of knew that God existed, but I was like, I don't know, there were just questions that I had around it. Um and yeah, people like as they do would talk about how Jesus is so loving and we need to love others.
SPEAKER_04:I thought that beep was in my house. That was a Jeep. I was like, the fire alarm going off because my kids are downstairs. Okay, we're good. Keep going.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm dying here. Yeah, the the pulse machine has just like gone to flat line.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but yeah, so people, yeah, we'd talk about how Jesus is loving and we need to love others. And I just did not really feel a whole lot of love at church. Like there would be select people who I would feel it from, but from the majority, I felt like, you know, we're talking about like this fierce love and where is it? Like I went like, you know, people would kind of stand up the front and say things, and I just thought like you like we've never had a conversation, and I'm always by myself. And it just did not feel I yeah, I guess I didn't feel a whole lot of love as a whole from kind of the church. Um and I I felt very inwardly focused as well, like when I would go to church. If I was like, okay, like no, I need to be thin, and I need people to think that I'm very skinny, and I want people to think that I'm pretty. Um and then like obviously, if you're like if I'm thin and if I'm pretty, then people will like me, of course. This is how it works, right? Um, so you kind of have this like self-centeredness, and then um feelings were lowed for me. Like that's just it was that's where they were, like feelings kind of ruled me. Um, and then there was this like hyper-vigilance or this anxiety that I had about if people were mad at me or if they didn't like me. Um, and so that was kind of like kind of captures my mid-teen life, I guess.
SPEAKER_04:Was uh what kind of culture were you taking in? Uh was it lending itself to this? Like what music or movies were did you like love and that you just at this time?
SPEAKER_01:I think at that time I really liked comedy. I really liked horror, which is kind of random, especially from like going from this really anxious kid. I always flipped it of like I'm going to master horror. And so I I remember I had like on my notes app, not that I would show people, but just for myself, but have on my oh I probably did show people knowing me at that age, but I had um this notes app that had like all of the horror films that I had watched. And there was like, I don't know, maybe like 50 or something crazy on there that I just like would sometimes on like a weekend be like, okay, like I have some spare time, I've done my school work, what am I gonna do? Just gonna like pump out some horror films.
SPEAKER_04:So, like, were it like like slashers or like spiritual horror, like the exorcist or something like that?
SPEAKER_01:I never really touched the spiritual horror. It was more so that kind of like the slashes and um or like something in the woods or um some like psychological horrors, they always interested interested me.
SPEAKER_04:Um that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. It was music that I was listening to.
SPEAKER_04:Um because everyone thinks the music that they were listening to when they were at this age is like the best music in the world. I'm I wonder if that's true for you now.
SPEAKER_01:No, I my I mean at the time I actually had a very broad music sense. I think just from like the people that were around me and that sort of thing, I very much like um kind of absorbed my parents' music taste, which was like um yeah, so I there was some sort of like there was some indie pop, um and then just like your classic pop, and then I still kind of listen to Christian music at this time. Like I I liked it and it sounded like I liked how it sounded, but I also thought like the lyrics, like the way that it's talking about God, it was very nice, and I felt I don't know, there was kind of that I don't know, there was something there, but I just it didn't feel like a full relationship if that makes sense. It didn't feel too way. Um and yeah, so music, I listened to honestly everything. Like I listened to like 90s rap and um just like all sorts like pop from my days and also like from ages ago, but then I also listened to um like the Beach Boys, love the Beach Boys from like Who doesn't honestly, but yeah, so I've listened to I would listen to all sorts of like decades music and that sort of thing as well. I would not say there was one genre, but um yeah, probably a lot of it was probably 90s rap, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04:90s rap. Does that mean like Tupac or Coolio? Like who do like what's the name of an artist?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, probably like a bit of Tupac. Um I honestly can't even remember now, but yeah, it's probably better.
SPEAKER_04:It's probably better than you know. It was grimy back in the 90s, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I know. Um like Victorious BIG, like just anyways, yeah, just the whole thing.
SPEAKER_04:All right, East Coast.
SPEAKER_01:But um, yeah, so that was kind of like me in like my probably from 11 to maybe 12 to 14, 15 maybe. Um yeah, and then um around 1415, um, our church had this new female pastor, and her name was Annie. And I thought she was so cool. Um, and I think she really changed what faith looked like to me. She gave me her time, she would like check in, and like when I was going into church, like when I would arrive, she'd always like spark conversation and come seek me out. Um, and she she was always very intentional in that way. Um, and she was probably one of my first encounters with a Christ-related person that made me think that Jesus could be for me, that actually maybe this is this is something that I could get on board with. Um yeah, and kind of during this, I had um like a a boyfriend. We weren't together for very long, like maybe nine months or so. Um, but I felt that relationship really fueled this external validation desire. Um I was 15, but we had like a lot of toxic patterns, and God wasn't a part of that relationship. Um, but I think especially amongst my friends, I had this like desire to be couple goals and be the friend that people would come to for relationship advice. And it it fueled like another part of my identity that I kind of created of like this, you know, wise person, um, even though I was like not wise at 15. But um yeah, that was kind of like another identity thing, and um, I was struggling a lot with like body image, and um I was kind of on medication as well for um like my skin and like my cycle stuff that made me have like a really low mood. So all of this kind of combined was just like this recipe for disaster, but um yeah, that was kind of I guess that. Um, and then I went on a service trip where Annie came along and um there was a lot of drama at the service trip, but something I walked away with was this real encouragement of wanting to explore faith and wanting to be genuinely kind and genuinely generous. Um not so much doing it for like this kind of character that I was trying to depict, but genuinely having those desires of like I I want to be a kind person and like I like you yeah, if that's if that's making sense.
SPEAKER_04:Um so much confusion at these ages. We wanna we just wanna be important, we want to be special.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's so true. Um, so after the trip, um I felt this urge to start fresh. Um, I felt like I needed to kind of end the relationship to do that. Um, I just wanted like a clean slate. I didn't want this kind of past self of this like relationship guru and blah blah blah. I didn't want that attached to me. And I don't know, I guess just all the conflict that we had. I just thought like I think if this Jesus stuff is gonna work out, I really need like a clean slate. Um so after that, I was learning more about Jesus um and kind of having a more authentic faith from Annie. Um and she was very like I guess unfiltered in a way, but she was so happy to be honest and happy for any questions, and um it it felt very relatable to me and where I was at. Um and kind of during that time of being, I guess like probably around 16, um, I got closer to this guy, Lincoln, um, who went to my church. And I thought we, you know, would be best friends. Uh, I remember even telling my dad um that like you know, we're gonna be best friends. And he was like, um, you know, doesn't often work that way. And he was he thought that we would start dating, which I was like outrageous, of course, not gonna happen. Um, of course, a month later I was telling him that he was my boyfriend. Um, and um Link was kind of in that core group that I spoke about, not like fully in it, but kind of, you know, his sister was also in it, and so he was kind of in it as well. Um, which I think also brought about this pressure for me of like, well, now there's this pressure that you have, you know, this guy that you're dating who's now kind of um like his family is very well respected in the church and and that sort of thing, and he's kind of part of the in-group. So if anything happens, like you're not just out, you're out, if that makes sense. Um, but yeah, he was very sweet and he helped me a lot in those kind of early stages of faith. Um when you know you're kind of figuring things out and you have lots of questions about how things work. Um, and yeah, that was kind of that, but um anxiety was still this identity that I wore. Um it created a lot of challenges for us in kind of our dating relationship, even though I was 16, he was 17.
SPEAKER_04:Um there's a song about that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um but yeah, and and he kind of has his own story, but um, I would say like during those stages, he struggled kind of with pride and kind of a bit of self-centeredness. And he also didn't come from a super emotional family. Um, so there were just like areas that we clashed. Sure. Um and I think we kind of at times repeated, um, maybe not to the same extent, but repeated some patterns of conflict that we had witnessed from other people around us. Um, just in kind of like yeah, I don't know, just in some of the conflict dynamics that we had. Um and yeah, we kind of had this cycle almost of like him saying something without thinking how I might receive it, me kind of assuming the worst and taking it badly, him apologizing, me thinking he wasn't sorry enough, and then him kind of getting defensive about it. And then this was just a cycle that we had. Um, still like very much, you know, we liked a lot of the same things and there was still a lot of love. But this was like when we didn't have conflict heaps, but when we did have conflict, this was very much our cycle. Um and yeah, during this time I still struggled with body image stuff. Um, I have since gotten really bad acne. Um, and so that was kind of like a whole other thing of you know being embarrassed and now I'm with this cool guy, but now like my skin looks bad. And um Annie, who was like a very important person, very close, she I think she kind of ended up feeling like family, um, but kind of for separate reasons, um, kind of left my life and and that sort of thing, um, which I think was just a bit hard as well, but um, because of my like external validation, I was like, oh. But um I think I was at a place with God where I kind of had this independent faith, um, and I felt like God had me. And that's kind of faith-wise where I was, where I was like, actually, it's kind of God and I am now. Um, and yeah, around that I would have been 17. Um I had convinced myself that the anxiety that I had was actually a gift from God to help me connect with others better, um, and to kind of be selfless by taking care of other people and kind of that it was people pleasing. I was like, it's a gift, it's something that I can use. I don't know, I was I was pretty deceived, but I think it was something where I had made it so so much part of my like such a big part of my identity that I thought, well, it's here to stay, so how can I kind of make it work almost? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um how would you define anxiety? Was it just overall worry about the future?
SPEAKER_01:Um a little bit, but I think it was more so um worry about where I stood with people, how people felt about me. Um if like let's say if someone was having A bad day, I would internalize that and I'd say, like, it's because of you, you're the reason they're having a bad day. And then it would kind of make me internally spiral because then I was like, What did I do to make them have a bad day? Or like whatever it was.
SPEAKER_04:Um there's a like a mixture of insec a ton of insecurity in there as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so much insecurity, so much. Um, and like when it came up in conflict of me worrying or like um with like Link, especially if it came up, like if we had conflict, I'd be like, Well, now I'm worried that you're gonna go. So then I've kind of got like it was like a push, like, leave me, but also don't leave me. Um, and I remember I used to say things in kind of conflict of like, I can't help it, um, anxiety is just part of me, it's part of who I am. Like, you kind of just need to work around it or just deal with it because it's just here and it's here to stay sort of thing. Um, and yeah, like people's negative emotions, um, especially if I had some sort of cause for it, I felt like almost mathematically, if I was mean enough to myself or if I hated myself enough, um, then it would make things okay.
SPEAKER_04:And that actually works. I'm just playing.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I thought it did.
SPEAKER_02:I thought it was not supposed to do it. It does not work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it was like this kind of like almost like this corrupted justice of like if I had conflicts with family or with Link or with friends, um, and they would say things, I just thought, like, yeah, I just need to like be meaningful.
SPEAKER_04:It's my fault.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's my fault, and like I need to like almost punish myself for it. Like, there needs to be something. And if other people aren't gonna do that, then I'll do that, basically.
SPEAKER_04:Um in a weird way, I mean, people pleasing and insecurity in it of itself is self-centeredness. It's like we're we can't get our eyes off of ourselves, constantly thinking about ourselves, and we're not just like head up experiencing life loving other people, we're just in our own garbage.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and even when people would say hurtful things in fights um or like just in general, I would just play that over my head, like on repeat, um as like this kind of punishing thing. Um, which would then of course like feel this people pleasing, because I'm like in a desperate attempt to kind of be okay with myself. Um and yeah, that was kind of like this cycle that I had for a while.
SPEAKER_04:This is called suffering.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I was suffering. Um, but through through kind of all this, I still felt a gentleness of God. Um, and I mainly felt that in kind of my very low moments. Um and it yeah, but I still kind of felt like I was forcing God's hand a bit, like he had to love me, but um, I didn't feel forgiven, I didn't feel treasured, I definitely didn't feel free. Um, and when feelings were lowered for me, um, that unforgiveness and anxiety and the attempts to be perfect and kind of ahead of the crowd, um, so that my life was worth it, that ruled me. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, in in a real sense, our feelings are supposed to work for us, not against us. We're not supposed to work for our feelings. You know, you say when my feelings were Lord. You know, feelings aren't bad. They're they're very helpful, but when they when we're working for them, it becomes it becomes bad news. Um, when they're working for us, when we feel things and we can observe our feelings and not necessarily like we're we don't become our feelings. We aren't our feelings, we just have them. And I think that's a huge difference between having feelings, which we all have, then becoming our feelings, like like this is who I am, this feeling. Um, then that's when we're working for them, and it gets ugly.
SPEAKER_01:I remember I was walking home from school with one of my friends, and as we were walking, my vo like my head, there was kind of quiet, and I started panicking. I just fully started panicking because there is always there was always noise. There was always noise about like myself or about the other person, and just like thinking all of these things, and I remember thinking, like, oh my goodness, why's the quiet? Like, there's something wrong. There's there's this just there's something wrong, like this, it's not right. There's like why is my brain quiet? It's never quiet. That was yeah, that was just yeah, kind of what it kind of felt like of like even quiet wasn't enjoyable, it was like there's something there's something must be wrong.
SPEAKER_04:Um it like that's so wild because I think the goal is peace, right? To move like so many people want that peace, that quiet mind. Like, if your mind was actually not arguing with itself over whether someone likes you or not, or whether you did the right thing or said the right thing, then you can put all that energy that is used up in this dialogue, this conversation that you're always having with yourself. You can use that energy to do the thing like you're that the task at hand, what what God has asked you to do, like whatever's in front of you, that energy that is used up with this constant chattering and you monitoring it can actually be used for good. But you but in that moment you're just like, oh no, like this is uncomfortable that there's quiet, and that's a wild thought, right? It's kind of like Stockholm Syndrome.
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, so that was that was kind of that. Um, I got baptized when I was 18. Um loving God still. Um I I felt kind of more authenticity, more connection. Um, but I was also very satisfied with the okay gospel. Being anxious, feeling kind of out of control, holding on to a lot of hurt from people that were close to me. Um yeah, so I I still got baptized and I was so excited about that. But these things were still something that I I felt like if I were to forgive someone, I was losing something. Um yeah. And then um I guess losing what, the upper hand? I guess the high the the your high horse. Yeah, I guess I guess a bit it felt like in me forgiving someone, it's saying that it's okay what they did or what they said. Um and yeah, I don't know. I guess maybe like a little bit of victim mentality felt like you know, I can hold on to something I can say, like, oh this is what I've been through and it's been so hard, and sort of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Like, and then people can feel bad for you and think that you're emotionally deep. And if you're emotionally deep, then there's something to you, you're you're you're a person of substance because you feel all of these things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And like, I guess even more relatable of like like I used to overshare all the time as well, and that was my idea of vulnerability of if I shared, but then if people didn't share back, I was like, oh, I'm rejected. Because like I've shared with them something that's part of me, and they haven't done the same thing, right? And then it then it was also kind of like in terms of validation, they don't think that you're trustworthy enough, and um, they don't think that you know you're that close. Um, and so yeah, that was like a whole other thing. Um but post-baptism, um, I still had a lot of questions, and I still felt like a bit of an outsider from the kind of adventist bubble. Um, because I had I well, I guess I had missed a lot of experiences and a lot of knowledge that you just get naturally from being a kid growing up in the church. Um and I remember I chatted with Bees after Pastor Bees or Bernard, um, as some bees as Karen would say, um, at this youth, there was like a big youth conference. Um, and I kind of caught him up on parts with my story, and then he offered to do weekly Bible studies with me. Um, and so we kind of we did that. That was kind of through my um, I guess like starting uni and that sort of thing. Um, but yeah, he kind of continued to sort of redefine the character of Jesus with me. Um even though like obviously we both had some flaws in our theology. But uh I was spending a lot of time with God through journaling, prayer, I was serving in different ways, um, which made me feel close to God, but I still felt a sense of incomplete in who I was. Um and I also emphasized that word of like I felt close because I was doing those things. Um, and so this all kind of classifies a few years as I was, you know, finishing school, started uni, where almost ironically I studied psychology. Um, I started having more anxiety attacks during that time as well. And I still felt those kind of distraught feelings. If I made someone feel bad or if I had conflict with someone, um especially Link and my parents, I would say. Um and then in my relationship with Link, I also felt this pressure around marriage to make sure I didn't stuff it up. Um, I really feared divorce. Um, and I felt these internal pressures kind of similar to my parents of proving myself, which they didn't put on me because it was a me thing. But um, I felt these pressures of being perfect and um kind of holding Link and myself to these standards of like, you know, we need to be doing this, we need to be doing this, and then like we have a great relationship if we're doing these things. Um and comparison was totally my thief of joy. Uh comparing relationships, faith, habits, grades, appearance, it felt all of these things felt like a reminder of my shortcomings, and I was living in lack from that.
SPEAKER_04:Um who are you comparing yourself to, your buddies or like TV or like what?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Everybody's in a relationship, why am I not like you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think um, yeah, it was yeah, like person to person, kind of couple to couple. Um, and it it just felt like yeah, this it just felt like a reminder to myself of like this is you're not meeting any marks. Um yeah, just this is like another reminder that you're just failing. Um and yeah, kind of I guess even like um kind of coming back to like being vulnerable and that sort of thing. I remember part of that was like crying. I felt like um if I if someone shared something deep with me, then I needed to cry to show them that I valued what they were saying, but also to kind of almost show them that like we're on the same level of like I'm so deeply touched by what you're saying. It felt like tears, like crying and tears needed to happen to kind of communicate that. Um interesting. And I remember that was another identity thing of like, oh yes, I'm you know, really emotional and I'm like an empathy.
SPEAKER_02:I'm an impact.
SPEAKER_01:I feel feel other people's emotions, all that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Um did that make you a deeper person?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because I like was this deeper person, but then also if you kind of remember like from earlier, like I hung around adults a lot, so then I was like emotionally mature. Adults said to me that I was emotionally mature, or I was just mature in general. Um, which I think like there are some elements of truth, but I I wouldn't say that's always a good thing. Like I think there were parts of that where I matured because I needed to almost.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, life's hard sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Um, or like I felt like I needed to at least. Um, yeah, so yeah, so you kind of have all these things, um, and then kind of cut to Bees and Karen releasing their testimonies. Um, I was really intrigued. And um I think after talking to them about it, I was all in because I was tired of carrying like all of this stuff, and it just it it seemed to make a lot more sense than whatever I was like delusional about.
SPEAKER_04:Had you had any idea about their journey before you started listening to the podcast, or like because Karen's podcast comes first. Did you were you just like, let me just see what it's about? Like, did they say, hey, listen to it, or what how did that how'd you come across it?
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm trying to remember. I think um, well, I didn't actually have any idea of like I guess their main struggle. Sure. Um I knew kind of bits and pieces. I would say I probably knew more about Bees' testimony. Again, like not sort of the main things, but just how he kind of viewed himself, um, just because it came up. Like in some of our Bible studies, we've we've been laughing about it um because we work together. But um I remember like one of our exercises that we did was like making a banner for ourselves, like what is our banner that we would hold up. And I remember like I was kind of riding my banner, and Bees was riding his banner, and his was like, I'm a sinner, saved by grace. He was like, We need to have like I'm a sinner first. This is like pre-freedom. Let's go. Then Ryan was kind of like, okay, like, yeah, I'm gonna do similar sort of thing. So I think it was again like um even because of all of this stuff, like Jesus still loves me.
SPEAKER_04:Um just so you're like celebrating your trash, you're like, I'm these things, but yeah, God still loves me, so he's cool, but yeah, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Um and yeah, I think it still felt like God not that I was forcing his hand, but I don't know, there there still felt like a gap. Still felt like something was missing. Um, and I think because of these things these identity things that I put on myself of like anxiety is part of my identity and and all of these different things, especially seeking external validation. Um it yeah, I don't know, though there was just this barrier I felt. Um and yeah, I've I still felt like I was living from lack. But I was I was kind of okay with that. I was like, well, this is just how it is. Um, and you're probably doing better than other people. As in, like, other people have more struggles and you know they don't have this glimmer of hope that you have. So hey, that's a win. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So you heard the episodes. What were your what were your first thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Um I was very like emotional about the episodes. I think um just from kind of growing, I guess, with bees and caren since I was 16 or so. No, maybe 17, 17 or 18. Um, I've I've kind of like grown a lot with them, and I I feel um they feel like family to me. So I think to hear these things that they were going through, um I was like so sad that they were going through them, but the way that they spoke about it, there was so much hope and there was so much life in what they were speaking. Um, and I just thought like I want some of that. It was kind of like the same with the service trip when I was seeing these people doing some, like doing like good things for kids and just the community. I was like, I want some of that. Like that that looks better than what I'm doing. And I think for the it was like with Bees and Karen, I felt the same of like that, like I want what they're having. That sounds good to me. Um and yeah, I it it didn't feel hard to me. I think especially because I didn't really come from like I guess more of an adventus bubble, if you will. Um, it didn't feel hard for me to let go of some of that stuff. Um it yeah, it just felt like this. I've been waiting for this. Um, yeah, and um I was just yeah, tired. I was tired of all of this stuff, it made a lot of sense, um, and it felt a lot more powerful, I guess. Um and so I spoke to them about it, I started listening to more of the podcasts. Um, I was challenged by some of them at first uh because I think the way that I had framed things of like, you know, you have to hold your hurt, and like forgiveness is almost like a weakness because you're letting go of things. Um, I was challenged by them. And I think I was just in communication with Bees and Karen kind of through all of this. We had Bible studies and that sort of thing, where it was I feel very grateful because it was very convenient for me to be like, hey, what's up with that? That kind of does that doesn't seem um right, or that conflicts with kind of my self narrative. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So the forgiveness, what about had you heard about feelings not being lured at that point, or I had never heard of that, but I lived.
SPEAKER_01:My whole life. But I had never heard it just wasn't really. I don't know. I think growing up, you kind of hear about different things kind of being on the top of the pedestal, like your self-image or um like social media, and just you kind of hear about these different things, or like money, and you hear about these different things that are on the top. Feelings was never brought up as like, is this something that you're being constantly led by? And I think in my environment, it was, I guess there were lots of people that was kind of were kind of living that way of you know, they feel an emotion and so they act from the emotion. And sometimes maybe they have like a little bit of self-control about how they express that, but for the most part, um, yeah, if if they were feeling something, then they were in it.
SPEAKER_04:Um you're doing these Bible studies with bees and Karen and and you're growing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think um, like with some time, these anxiety symptoms of these you know, panic attacks and um I guess just like anxiety spirals that I was in, they lessened very quickly. I was very surprised about that. Um, but I like yeah, I don't know. I I've I started feeling this new identity and this new power um of like we can experience the fruits of the spirit anytime because they're in us, and it we're not living in lack because that's already been given. And so love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control, all of these things are accessible to you. Um and yeah, I remember like one of the first times was um I think at like my um at Link's family's house. Um, I think we were doing like some yard work or something like that. And I remember initially, like I'd probably be like, oh, you know, it's really hot, and I I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. But like after hearing this, I remember I just like put in some Christian music and I was like, like, I'm doing a task while I'm listening to Christian music rather than like, oh, let me just put this in to make time go faster. I was like smiling and I was digging and I was doing all these things, and I felt joy, and I was like, This is so weird, but it's so good, but it's so weird. Um yeah, and I think um it didn't feel like there were massive changes, but I would say there were big changes, and again, I use the word feel, but there were big changes in the way that I um viewed other people, um, the way that I viewed myself. I started looking at people through the lens of the spirit and not the lens of like a worldly lens, whether they believed it or not. And I think that was noticeable from others because when people would say things about themselves, um I would kind of pull them up on it and I would be somewhat unapologetic about it. And I wouldn't do it in a mean way, but if they were like I was in some Bible studies at that time, if they were saying something about themselves, I just would kind of pause them and say, like, like I just gotta pause you because I think you said this, and I just like I just want to kind of clarify, and and then I would just kind of speak truth over them. And ordinarily I would be like, don't say anything because then they won't like you, and like it's not your place, and they're just in their feelings, like we know what that's like, don't kind of interrupt that. But um I don't know, it was like this kind of quiet confidence almost of I just I just need to stop you because I I feel like you're saying something that's not quite true, and then would kind of speak, yeah. It was incredible. Wow, um, and I think as well with forgiveness, like now I was even my identity, I was this like the daughter of the most high king, and forgiveness was a gift that I could freely give and um I could fully receive. Um and yeah, all of these things that Jesus had spoken over me had always existed, but now I could kind of live in that, I could bask in this abundance. Um and yeah, it just it felt felt, and like not that it needed to feel, but it felt so freeing. It truly felt so freeing. Um, and yeah, like I I would never say in those years that I was living in abundance at all. No way. There was always something missing within myself or within another person or within the situation, or it was like, well, you know, I have family conflict or difficulties or I have anxiety, so like you just need to work around me because I have kind of almost like this baggage. I have this baggage, and so I'm kind of living from the baggage, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:When Bees started his unapologetically royal stuff, were you at that point, were you in, or were you like, okay, I see where you're like still kind of grabbing a hold of it?
SPEAKER_01:I would say I was in before I fully understood it. I think um I mean, I like I said, like I see bees and carrot as family, and so I think when they were talking about this, I had a lot of trust in what they were sharing. Um, and I think because it just it made so much more sense. Like this okay gospel, I remember thinking like wow, like this this is kind of it. Okay, I guess like I'm kind of stuck with it because I there wasn't like an element of not an element, but I felt like there was so much that was true about Jesus, like he lived and he was the Messiah and these things. I was like, I know this is true, like in my heart, but like in faith, but also historically and like scientifically and all of these things. I know that's true. So I'm not gonna not believe what the truth is, but also like I don't know, it's kind of that kind of like being a slave to sin that it was kind of like well, I guess this is kind of how it is. Like if you I don't know, have a feeling um and you act from it, like that's just how it is, and you can pray about it and things might change, but also yeah, it it might not, and that's kind of just tough. Um but yeah, um I think it kind of started this journey for me of living in agreement with this truth, yeah. Unlearning things, relearning things, um, kind of learning what to do with my emotions, and like you said, not necessarily denying them, but learning that I can feel something and act kind of with the fruits of the spirit, I can act differently than my emotions. Um and yeah, I can celebrate like those fruits of the spirit, I can celebrate them, irrespective of the circumstance, which didn't it felt like I guess before that felt like oh, like you don't need to be so optimistic. It's okay, you can just kind of yeah, you know that Bible verse that's like um kind of morning stays for the night, but joy comes in. Oh sorry, yeah, something like that. Or sorrow stays in the morning.
SPEAKER_04:Joy comes in the morning, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Joy comes in the morning, yeah. For me, it was kind of like, yeah, but also like the sorrow can stay for a while, and like joy can come a bit later, like don't rush yourself, sort of thing. Um but yeah, and I think another thing was kind of holding thoughts captive. That was something that I had never done, and it felt like this new power that I didn't know was possible, that I can kind of have a thought um or a negative emotion, and I can kind of pause and I I now have a choice to make of like, well, does God believe this about me um or about that other person? And like, if no, then I'm gonna kind of let that go. Like, I'm kind of pausing it here. Um, it doesn't have a place.
SPEAKER_04:That's something that we have to practice. And and how I describe it is like sometimes you're in the movie and you don't even know that like life's happening to you rather than you notice it happening. So when you're in the movie, like any thought is you, and you just go with it, whether it's wrong, right, good, bad. But when you're actually take a moment and realize, oh, my mind isn't like my thoughts aren't me, I'm the observer of my thoughts, then you can take each thought captive because it isn't you, yeah, you're observing it, and you're out of the movie finally, and you can be like, Oh, I don't have to live in a way I don't want to, or believe a believe that lie if it's not true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's so funny because like um I guess kind of fast track. I I am a provisional psychologist, um, but like in psychology, you learn about this. It's like there's a therapy for holding your thoughts captive and hold like kind of I guess making them obedient. And I I guess in psychology, you don't say I'm making them obedient to Christ, but like it's just such a biblical idea, and it's kind of yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Modern psychology didn't come up with it, right? God invented it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's kind of like a almost giggle of like, I never read this.
SPEAKER_03:That's what it is.
SPEAKER_01:Um but yeah, I think that was massive to kind of view those emotions as more like you have options around this. Um, and it did like I think it it takes time. Um, and I would say as well that um I think that unlearning and relearning process can take a while. Um mostly in that I think when I found freedom, and I think a lot of people would agree with this, those thoughts and the temptations they don't necessarily stop. Um, and the way that I see it is um, I guess almost neurologically, we have these paths in our brain that make things easier. It's why you know that your favorite food is your favorite food, or it's why you know how to get home from a particular place. It's to kind of save energy in your brain. And so it makes these shortcuts. Um and with these shortcuts, I think kind of Satan capitalizes on them of like, oh, this is convenient because you struggled this with this before. Whereas if it was something that you know maybe you had never struggled with or had never kind of you'd you'd never come across, you'd probably be it would probably be easier to reject it or say, oh no, that's that's whack. That's not like I know obviously that's not amazing. But if it's been something that you know you've had thoughts about before or whatever it is, then I think like it's kind of a convenient temptation almost. Um, and so I think Satan totally capitalizes on that, which is why you would probably like anyone would realize that what you know you have those sorts of like, why is it always this? Why is it the same thing all the time that like I'm getting this thing? Um, and so yeah, I think for me, um, like during that period, there were still times where I would feel anxious in my like and I wouldn't know why. I'd like it was quite literally a feeling in my stomach, and it would just like I'd be so tired it felt like I was like I felt a bit short of breath. It felt like I was fighting almost against myself of like I I don't want to have an anxiety attack or whatever it is, but I remember I would kind of think like I just need to like I just need to kind of ride this wave almost. Um and like I would just kind of pray and I would speak truth and I would like do little things that could tie me over until it kind of passed, and I would just kind of remember like it talks about Jesus overcoming the world. Um like this can be overcome too, sort of thing. Um that's awesome. Yeah, that was that was a massive change for me, I think. And then um, I guess kind of in this time that all of this is happening, um Link and I were still dating. Um he was more careful, I would say, about believing it, and you know, he has his own story. Um, but um I think he was seeing the changes in me and was noticing like something bigger, you know what I mean? Like ordinarily, let's say we had conflict or something. Um I would, you know, there was things that about me, the way that I dealt with conflict of, you know, being upset um or not really understanding or you know, feeling like he wasn't sorry and that sort of thing. Um, in our conflict now, it was like, no, I I want to listen to you. And I like these are things that if it doesn't feel so hard, like these are things that I get to do. And he would notice like even my attitude about things when ordinarily maybe I'd be like, Oh, this is so annoying, or whatever it was. I was like, okay, like let's do it. Positive, more positive attitude. Um, and then we ended up going to see Bees and Karen, um, I think in Wollongong, when they lived in Wollongong. Um, and Bees kind of explained to Link in his way. He's a much more logical, well, not a logical thinker, but he's very um what's the word? Okay, I'll say this. He works in finance, so that's kind of his brain. I feel like that that makes sense enough. Um, and so bees kind of explained in a way that he got more. Um, and we asked questions and we prayed, and then he aren't he kind of got it, he understood more. Um, so then we were kind of journeying with that together, which was I think really special. And I remember praying about, you know, like I think it would be hard to be in a relationship, and we'd been together for a while by that time, probably like five years. Um, and so I was like, okay, we're you know, we know where we're heading, like we're heading towards marriage, and I think marriage is gonna be really hard if we're both not on the same page with this. But I remember just praying about it, and I thought, like, I remember God just saying, like, like people will take the time that they sort of need, if that makes sense, like people will understand it in different ways and in different time, and you just need to give like give us as in like God and link time. Um, and yeah, and I think it was really incredible to kind of journey with that together and be like almost equally yoked in that way of the way that we saw each other and the way that we went about things. Um, like there were times where I would say we were deceived in ourselves, but I think we were kind of able to come back from that and have more patience. And even I remember like I would share things with Link. Like I would be honest about things that like thoughts that I I would say, like, this is so crazy. This is the thought that I just had. And usually I'd be like, Don't share that, you will find that unattractive. And not that he ever said, Oh, well, but I would just that was just what was going on in my mind, and um, we would just kind of talk about it, and I would say, This is this crazy thought that I just had, and he'd be like, Yeah, that is crazy, and I was like, Oh no, it's so weird that I thought that. And then we just kind of move on, and it didn't there was no shame, there was no like how could you think this or anything, even if it was like about our relationship, it was like, Oh yeah, this is a crazy thought. Oh yeah, it is kind of a crazy thought. We both know that this is not true, okay. Let's just kind of leave it. Um, and yeah, later that year we got engaged, um, and then we kind of like, I guess, just journeying with um like wedding preparations, and I was still at uni. Um, and then a year after that, which was January 2025, so last year, um, we got married. Um bees actually officiated our wedding, which was really awesome. And we had um Karen and baby Emmy, which is so sweet. Um, for context, Emmy is Bees and Karen's daughter, who's so beautiful. Um, and she was there, which was so lovely. Um yeah, and then we it was just like this kind of steamroll of all of these like massive life things. So like we got married, we um we bought a place in Wollongong, which we're now living in. Um, I started and finished my master's. I started working as a provisional psychologist at a school. Um yeah, it was just like all of these crazy things. Um, and it's so funny because me before, like young me, would have been like thrilled about this life because you know, like, you know, we're kind of ahead of our age and that sort of thing. Like, I'm doing life well, if you will, from a younger me point of view. But now it just, I don't know, it just doesn't I don't hold on to any of that. It just feels like these natural life progressions and these blessings that we have um that we're both so grateful for. But it's yeah, I feel like it's hard to understand if you haven't been in, I would think other people. Can understand, but when your identity is having like a perfect life and having things and these accomplishments that on paper look great and all of this sort of stuff, and then you're there, but now it doesn't really matter, it's not really a thing, it's just I don't know, it just feels so different, and it it truly does feel like this abundant life of like oh, this is another blessing, this is amazing, then yeah, and and I think as well, um something I didn't mention, but I also used to have a lot of money anxiety. Um I would be really worried about people spending money on me. I had this weird view that when people spent money on me, that was the last of their savings. Like they just now they have zero dollars in their bank account, even if it was people that I knew were well off. Um, or just like just anyone. I was just like, wow, just take that in for a minute because they just spent their last money on you. And then it was just like guilt, and like you're such a terrible person because you stole their money, even though they freely bought me something. Um, and so I think as well, like something that was a shift for both of us, which was kind of taking the pressure off providing and having God as our provider. Um, and yeah, I don't know, it just it takes a form of pressure off, I think, for Link and I, because um, yeah, like we we don't need to worry, we know that we're gonna be good um regardless. And yeah, I think like I can't remember who mentioned that, but yeah, I remember someone on the podcast talked about that shift in them.
SPEAKER_04:Um it's a big one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is it is a massive one. And I think another thing, and I'm pretty sure it's in um the end of Natalie's podcast, if I remember correctly, but something that I was so moved by was when she was talking about Moses and Exodus and how it speaks about um like with the locusts and that sort of thing. Like God will restore that time, like the lost time from those um, I guess the plagues and all of the things that happened. Like God will restore that time that was lost or that was used elsewhere. And yeah, I mean, even though I'm, I guess, young, like I still I don't know, that still felt it really hit me because I thought, like you said, like it's it's exhausting to think about this way that I spent so many years. And I think to have anxiety as part of your identity from when I was seven to when I was like 19, maybe, um, or 20, like that's that's a long time. And I think yeah, it it was really encouraging to think that all of that time spent will be like restored in abundance.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, any any thought of regret is a waste of time because there's nothing you can do about it, but God, but God loves us so much that our like worry about the future, not it. Regret about the past, not it. Living right now, living today, loving those around us, and just you know, the energy that we would use to worry or to regret, if we use that for the task at hand, if we use that for just living today and loving, how much more power would our life have?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. 100%.
SPEAKER_04:So let me ask you this, Izzy.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I've been trying to figure out where we're gonna take you. Maybe the 14-year-old Izzy, sweet girl who just wanted to be loved, needed validation, didn't know who she was. Let's say she comes into your office and she sits down and she's just troubled. How do you how do you minister to this sweet girl?
SPEAKER_01:I think I mean I like that age that you picked because I think that was probably one of my worst ages. I always say like this is like when I was most troubled. Um I think in like I guess a gentle way, I would want to ask, is it possible that your heavenly father who you know formed you as a baby wants more for you than this? Is it possible that you have sort of placed yourself in this position of stranger and not a child? And like, is it possible that when Jesus died on the cross and said it is finished? Is it possible that he meant it? Um and I just want to kind of talk about I guess almost like from a prodigal son lens, like the palace is your home, and you can spend your time looking, you know, out the window at the Pekin. But like what good is that? You know, like live in the palace, because you know what I mean? You're there. Um, and something that I think really moved me as well, something that um bees said, so quotes this is bees, um, but he said, You are trash, sorry, you are not trash seen as treasure because God loves you, you are treasure seen as treasure because God made you. And I think yeah, I'll say it again. You are not saying you are not trash seen as treasure because God loves you, you are treasure seen as treasure because God made you. And I think that moved me a lot, I think, from that mindset that where you know I was proving like you know, it wasn't a mistake to keep me, to have me, I guess, um, from my parents. That you know, when I was in the womb and at baby, like God kind of God makes masterpieces, God makes treasure. Um, and yeah, there was so much intentionality, even though like arguably I wasn't planned and all of this sort of stuff, like God still made kind of beauty, and God makes beauty from these things. Um, and I think to be seen as treasure because God made me that rewrites the story.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so beautiful, yeah, so beautiful, that's powerful. Well, Izzy, I I saw I think a sermon that you or a short talk that you gave at church, uh B sent it to me. I was super excited. I saw that and was just praising the Lord and just hearing your story and seeing your life. Uh, we're just glorifying God, and I'm sure that we're not gonna stop growing, that we're not going to stop, and that next year, year from now, two years from now, we'll be more foundational in this, and the people that you minister to are gonna be that much blessed for you just grabbing onto this truth and going with it every single day. So thank you so much for sharing this. Um, you're a blessing and a testimony to all of us.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for having me and to the whole love reality team because the miracles that you are working in lives, or at least like the vessel that you're being for God's miracles, is incredible. Like, as you say, like lives are getting healed, marriages getting healed, relationships, people, things that have gone on for years, like all of these things. Um, and it's it is because you know, you all have made a decision to you know sacrifice things and just be a vessel for God's goodness. So thank you so much, and your families as well, to all of you.
SPEAKER_04:Praise the Lord.