Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#252 Kevin: How The Gospel Shifts A Life From Surviving To Living
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We trace Kevin’s path from a chaotic childhood and a volatile father to marriage struggles, porn as a coping mechanism, special-needs parenting, and a surprising breakthrough when the gospel finally lands. The story turns toward freedom, confession, and a rebuilt marriage rooted in grace.
• Adventist roots and a home shaped by volatility and lectures
• Seven-year church break and return through pastoral care
• Marriage stress from silence and mismatched intimacy models
• Porn as coping, failed quit cycles, and hidden shame
• Birth of a son with Down syndrome and heavy caregiving
• Burnout, depersonalization, and health crashes
• A campfire revival where the good news becomes real
• Confession, near collapse of the marriage, and a second chance
• Grief for his father-in-law and renewed tenderness at home
• Practical shifts in parenting, presence, and perspective
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Welcome, Delay, And Setup
SPEAKER_01The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
SPEAKER_00I felt like a loser. But but you guys are talking about the gospel, and then Eddie is talking about his marriage and how he cheated on his wife. And at the time I was like, a scumbag. I've got my log in my eye, you know, and the I'm looking at his splinter in his eye, and I'm like, what a douche. Like he's terrible. But then, you know, it's like it hits me later. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm I'm bad too. I'm not much better. We all have our sin, the the the particular sins that we deal with, and we the things that we have with in life that we're dealing with. Jalen's talking about how her relationship with the Holy Spirit has been rock solid, and then when her husband cheated on her, she like three days later forgave him. And I was like, How could you do that? And why? Like, that's insane.
SPEAKER_01Yo, welcome to the Death Alive Podcast. My name is Richard Young. If you are listening to this the week or so that it comes out, you'll notice it's a couple days late. Why? Because I had my whole power out down here in Tennessee, but we got it back. And I'm excited because we have a great episode with my brother Kevin. And this episode, Kevin gets vulnerable, he gets real, and uh it's not for kids, but I love Kevin's heart. I love how he keeps going after the gospel, and I love seeing the gospel change his life. And so if you're interested in stories that got some death, but then have some life, well, then you're gonna love this one. And uh it Kevin's always been a blessing to me and my family, and I'm sure um that God is gonna continue to use him uh to encourage the saints and to be a testimony. So buckle up and strap in. Uh, this is Kevin. Love y'all, appreciate y'all. All right. I think if I go back and think of like the first couple years or first few years walking in freedom, I maybe I could come up with another person, but I think I don't know, you might be the the last of that like that first year that like I remember hearing the story, and uh yeah, and for whatever reason, we're recording this in 2026. So, Kevin man, it's been I've known you for a while now. Tell us where are we starting? Where are you taking us?
SPEAKER_00Uh well I thought I'd start with my parents, go back to 1981.
Kevin’s Family Roots And Faith
SPEAKER_00Um they were that's when they became Adventist. Um a lot of Adventists like to talk about what generation they are, but I never really cared about that. But um just for you know detailed purposes, they that's when they started uh Adventism. Where are your parents from? Uh well my dad is originally from Missouri, uh St. Joe area, and my mom is from Riverside, California. So she was raised Baptist, so it was a big deal when she became Adventist. Uh family didn't like it too much, I guess. Uh so I've heard they're pretty hardcore in the in the um Baptist faith.
SPEAKER_01Did your mom go to La Sierra? Was she around that area?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh well La Sierra High School, I think. Um, which is it's not uh I don't think that's I think it's just a normal high school.
SPEAKER_01Well there's a La Sierra Academy, and I'm there, I'm sure there's a La Sierra High School. But she wasn't an Adventist when she was in college then.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01Oh then because my folks I'm I'm guessing my folks and your folks are around the same age. My parents met at La Sierra in Riverside, California, so that's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Maybe my mom, she or she was uh born in the 60s or 1960, but my dad is older. He was born in 37.
SPEAKER_01So like there's a 25-year difference. 23. Well, yeah. That's wild.
SPEAKER_00I was always the odd kid in school when I talked about my parents, you know, with the age difference. I'd it was normal to me, but everyone else was had parents about the same age, so I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm the weird one.
SPEAKER_01Was your dad then you all he was just you saw an older guy? Um were you able to play with him?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh that's kind of one of the things it it was difficult. He he was you know in his fifties when I was a teen, so upper upper fifties, getting close to 60 in my teenage years, and so I wanted to play sports, you know, with him and like basketball, football, anything like that, but it never really happened. He threw the ball a few times, and when it was happening, I was excited. I was like, Yeah, I'll do this, let's play something, but it didn't last very long. He was just like, Oh, I'm tired, and he was never really a sporty guy, anyways. He's more uh I don't know, like into other things. He's um he was into uh martial arts. So he that kind of sports, so so not
Life Under A Volatile Father
SPEAKER_00fun sports, just a series.
SPEAKER_01He's like, I can kill you with my hands. You're like throw the football.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and he could, he could kill anyone. You would brag about it. He was interested in um brown belt and judo, and he had four different other black belts and karates, different kinds of karate, uh goju rooku or something like that. I forget all the names. Um maybe Shotokan, I think. He was teaching us some some Shotokan. And uh and then a black belt in Kung Fu, uh Sansu, and Cholin. So those were styles.
SPEAKER_01There's there's like where where did he where was he from? You said he's from Missouri. How did how did he get into this?
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, there's all kinds of teachers everywhere that have come from China, you know. Uh Jimmy H Wu was one of his teachers for Kung Fu. And we had a book that we would reference when we were taking lessons. We started with karate because our um uncle said, Hey, teach him Shotokan. So dad started giving us lessons when we were older, and you know, old enough so that we wouldn't just beat up on each other, you know, understanding level. Um Kyle, my younger brother was about seven when we started to learn, so I was about nine. And then my older brother was uh 14. So we started with karate. We did it for, I don't know, six months, and it was kind of boring. Uh dad was bored too, so he's like, hey, let's do kung fu. So we started with that, and then I we we did that every summer for till I was uh senior in high school. Um just practiced a lot in the summer, practiced a little bit in the in the school time, not a whole lot, but uh because we're just busy at school, but as much as we could. Keith progressed a lot with one of our students, and he got really good. He got to my older brother Keith, got to second degree black belt, and when he was training for that, I was the dummy, and it was you don't pull your punches as much when you get to black. Uh you you let the sparring partner feel it a little. So it hurts a lot. You're like, thanks, thanks, buddy. Yeah, that day was rough. I I got about halfway through the lessons when when you're doing lessons, you're doing it for the next belt. So when you're sparring for the next the next uh degree. So he was doing his first degree lessons on me, training for second or a second degree lessons to to gain the second degree. And um, I got halfway through and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Uh I'm crying, you know, like it hurts so bad. So then little brother stepped in and it was I was like, finally, relief. I don't think he went as hard on him though.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, grew up your parents, what how how they become Adventists? They went to a revelation seminar somewhere in St.
SPEAKER_00Joe? I don't know. I think dad, it was from dad, and like he became Adventists and he convinced my mom somehow, and she was like, Okay, uh, this makes sense. And that's about all I know about that.
SPEAKER_01And then you came along. Yeah. Well, keep going, man. Tell us what happened.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, let me look at my notes, see where I am. We've talked about all that stuff, and uh uh like growing up. So I'm the middle of two brothers. Um I have three older half-sisters from my dad's previous marriages, and my mom was also previously married, so my older brother is technically my half-brother, even though we weren't raised that way. I didn't know until for a long time. So I've always just thought of him as, you know, he's just my brother, you know. And I uh my I didn't have much contact with my sisters. Uh the middle one I I saw a little bit more, uh Johnny Gale. She was basically the same age as my mom. Weird. But uh I have some fond memories with her. She would come around sometimes and bring all our kids. So my nephews and nieces that were basically the same age as me. And um she taught me how to braid hair. Uh my older, my oldest sister was a drugie and a prostitute, and she came around. I remember like one time asking for money, like 20 bucks or something, and my dad could barely even look at her. We were all in the car. He he was just sad to see her, and she was, you know, she she kind of just carried herself really poorly. I think she had thinning hair and kind of weird teeth, and
Church Rift And Return
SPEAKER_00I was like, hey, like this is your daughter, like why are you looking at her like that? I just remember feeling sorry for her, and she asked for money. I was like, that's weird to ask your parents for money when you're that age. I think she was in her 40s or something. She looked pretty run down. I think he gave her some money and then just left, and I didn't see her again. And then she died of a drug overdose. My middle sister uh died in a car crash with uh my cousins uh remember my cousin Jason dying in that car crash, and then my older, or not my cousin, I think of him as my cousin because it's weird. My nephew, then my older nephew survived that correct. And uh like I was 14 at the time, and I thought I should be more sad than I was, but I didn't know her that well. So I thought it was weird that I wasn't more sad, but I was sad. But it was just odd. I remember one time when they we were in California. I I lived it in we lived in California before we moved to Missouri. Uh so we I lived there uh uh in Riverside. I was born in Corona, California. But when we lived in Riverside area, I remember my uh nephew when I was four years old, he molested me, but it was yucky, and I think I remember getting yelled at or one of us getting yelled at, and then that's about it. That's all I remember of that. But it was weird.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry to hear that, man. I mean, it was a long time ago, so yeah, but you that stuff affects you, bro. Like growing up for sure it does.
SPEAKER_00I think I think it affected me. I I don't know. I mean, I can see how it did. It's just that I didn't it's it's not like uh painful memory or anything, it's just something that happened that I remember. It's I remember things when they're traumatic, and other than that, it doesn't really sear into my brain very well. Like my memory's not that great.
SPEAKER_01But things like that, like yeah, you tend to remember those things, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so growing up, my uh dad smoked and drank and cussed. He just had the pottiest mouth, cussed all the time. Um that's something I've had to work on. He he said he would always be like, Do what I say now what I'd do. So he said, Don't drink, don't smoke, don't cuss. I do all these things because I was raised that way, and it's taken me a long time to he would always make excuses for himself and but I remember in '94 he quit smoking and it was he was cranky a lot and yelling more than usual. And he said he quit um drinking too in uh 2008, but he k he quit drinking most of the time. He would still have some alcohol before bed to go to sleep. And when I think mom caught him once, he would he would just say, Well, I just needed to go to sleep. Uh but he had he had problems sleeping and lots of physical problems. Um he had ulcers,
Growing Up Adventist And Rule Swings
SPEAKER_00uh he had part of his uh most of his stomach removed, like half of it. And he had to drink shakes a lot, blended things, and eat like mostly cracker, cheese and crackers, and he would always wish that he was eating like everyone else, and he talked about it a lot, and sometimes he did. He would just break down and just eat what we were eating and then regret it later. I'd hear him in the bathroom puking everything up because it smelled so good, you know, all the food, the real food smells good. Later we found out he had a blockage, and that was what was causing most of his issues, and then he was in the hospital, I think it was around 2008, 2010, something like that. And he you know, he just didn't take care of himself, didn't want to go to the doctor. We didn't we didn't go to the doctor either that much. Uh we would just get home at home remedies for everything. And my dad studied doctoral things, he studied the Merck Manual, he he was he said he was a nurse and a doctor and a um osteopath. But there's are barely any proof for whatever of what anything he ever said. He lied about most things and he would exaggerate mostly everything. Um so like mostly everything was just exaggerated and like there was truth in what he said. It's just that he would color it. That's his own words. He would c I'm just coloring it. Like just trying to make it sound better, you know. But the story never really needed embellishment. It just it was already interesting. Like what whatever he did was interesting. But he thought it was always not cool enough. It's just one of his quirks. But most most things now that um we were discovering as we get older, me and my brothers, that most things he did were true. It's just that the timing of things were off, or um not quite like just not quite how he said, but the main gist of it was was true. He he died a year ago. So we're trying to. My older brother's like piecing things together and researching and seeing what actually happened. So it's just hard to know what what was true and not true when he lies like that, you know.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_00Embellishes everything and exaggerates everything. My mom was mostly in the background. She was always quiet. Uh she would console us a lot. So when dad was angry, uh he he was bipolar. So bipolar, he was epileptic, he had uh uh appendectomy, he had a call, his callbladder removed, he was paranoid. Later we found out he's a narcissistic sociopath. That's a diagnosis that doesn't mean that you're a psycho killer. It means like it's an actual term, narcissistic sociopath. I it that wasn't diagnosed, but uh my my younger brother uh researched it and he was like, dude, he'd like look into this, he like checks every box. I was like, okay, well, I mean that makes sense too, because he was very he he is a narcissist. I had all the qualities of that easily. And paranoid, very paranoid of everything. He was always worried about something happening, and I think that's why he was so strict and overprotective. Even though we grew up in a really it's probably why we grew up in a really small, tiny town in Missouri when we moved to uh King City. Like a square mile, population a thousand. Not much ever went on in that town, so I guess he felt safe. And he didn't have to be so paranoid about leaving your doors unlocked, you know, you could just park your car anywhere with the keys in it running. Nobody
Marriage, Silence, And Hypersexual Modeling
SPEAKER_00did anything, nobody cared. It's a good town.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So he had a lot of issues, and so then when he would uh just yell at us or get mad at everyone, um it's mostly because he was off his medication, he would take lithium, progress, prozac, and st. John's wort. We would be able to tell the thing about bipolar is that when they're on vacation, they think that they're better. So they want to get off. And it's a vicious cycle. Every few months, you're like, hey, I'm I'm fine. Like, there's nothing wrong with me. Like, totally good. Like, and then a couple months go by and they don't want to be on their meds anymore, and then they get off. And we're like uh uh talking to mom, and we're like, is is dad off his medication? She's like, Oh, I don't know. We can tell, you know, it's pretty pretty obvious. He's short fuse and get mad at nothing. Or you I mean, even if it was something, we just too mad at it. Like, why are you so mad at this thing I did, even though it was you're it's legitimate to be mad at some things sometimes, but everything all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And just I don't know, that's just how life was. Uh we'd get lectures, all of us, even mom. We'd just be lectured all the time. Like every week was like uh every week was at least you know, like well, at daily we'd get like a half hour talking. Like a miniature lecture lecture. Every week there was probably an hour lecture in there somewhere. Every couple weeks was like two or three hours a lecture. Like I don't know how anyone can talk that long without taking a breath. And then every felt like every month there was like a just a real long, this is just an all-day thing. I remember one time there was Kyle, my younger brother, didn't register for classes on time for college, something like that. So dad was mad and he because he wanted him to do it. And it was time and he wasn't doing it. And and he's like, Where's your brother? Where was he doing? What why is he out like right now? And uh like, I don't know. I've got my own stuff going on. It was on the weekend, I think. I think it was on a Sunday. But I I had plans to do other things as a college kid would do, but none of that ever mattered. Um I was pulled into the argument, none of it was really my fault, but somehow became my fault, and then kind of usually always involves the whole family when when this kind of thing happens. So then my little brother finally gets home after I'm getting lectured for several hours of like, why am I not involved? Why am I not stepping up or doing something? I'm doing something wrong. And then so then another few hours of lecture. Like, you know, it was it was nine hours total of just listening to it. I think that might have been the day that my mom was like, you know, dad wants you to talk back to him. You need he wants answers and he wants you to uh join the conversation. But I never thought that would have helped. Because I'm like, you're telling me this now? Like after all these years of enduring this, I thought the best way to endure it was to just nod my head and agree to everything, because that way it it would just get over with sooner. And um he would always say, shut up, you know, shut shut your mouth, stop talking to us when we were growing up, uh be quiet all the time. So and I'm good at that already. I already have those skills, so I developed them even further, but that didn't translate so well in a marriage. Like you can't be quiet for everything, and that's my default. When things get rough, I just go quiet and start listening, and then I shut down because that's what I was trained to do. I was trained to sit there, take it, and shut down for every conversation I had with my dad.
Porn As Coping And Hidden Shame
SPEAKER_00He was always involved in everything that I did. And he was always around. He didn't have like a steady job, really. He would he would buy and sell cars and just you know, every once in a while sell a car, and then so he was in the garage a lot. Yeah, we had a pretty nice garage. It was big, so he could work on cars, and then he did that for a while and then got lazy and did nothing, and then lived on Medicare and Medicaid, I guess, and welfare and stuff. We we had food stamps, lived in a trailer for most of our lives. We did finally upgrade to a house later, and that was cool. I had my own room. I shared a room with my brothers for for a long time, like 11 years. We shared it like a 10 by 10 room, it was 10 by 10 or 10 by 11, something like that. And mom would say, Go clean your corner. So then once I got a room, I I barely had any stuff. I didn't know what to fill my room with. I just had a bed and and then my grandma gave me a desk, and we had a computer, huge TRT monitor with a desk uh desktop thing with uh I think it had at that time it had probably Windows 3.1, so we weren't running DOS anymore. So that was cool.
SPEAKER_01Um how old were you when you moved to Missouri?
SPEAKER_00Uh so we moved my senior year of high school, so 2001, and then I finished my senior year uh at Central High School and graduated from there. I didn't get to graduate from my my old school, which sucked.
SPEAKER_01Who was uh during this time, were you guys going to church?
SPEAKER_00Were you uh yeah, like yeah, we we we went to to St. Joe Church. We would go drive back and forth to St. Joe uh from King City, so it's like 30 miles, 31 miles, something like that, half hour. And there was a period of time that we didn't go to church, or like seven years that we stopped going because my dad had a disagreement with the pastor at the time uh over special music because my dad wanted to sing and he was a good singer. He was multi-talented. Um he also flew planes, he was a pilot, and I've been up flying with him at the airport several times. If if we weren't if he wasn't working on cars, he was at the airport. So we were we just kind of like lived. I felt like we lived at the airport, like so like half the time we were there or or at home.
SPEAKER_01Or like what what was the disagreement about the special music? He you wanted to sing a Steve Green song, and the pastor was like, nah.
SPEAKER_00Well, he liked singing People Need the Lord, and that's a Steve Green song. Oh, is it? Yeah, it is. I don't know, like People Need the Lord. He would he loved that song. Uh I can't remember it was a ton of others, but he would sing a lot of different ones. But uh he was mad at that. The the pastor was like, you know, outgoing and he liked to do special music too. And uh it was a pretty bad disagreement, but years later, uh, they buried the hatchet, like uh like twenty some years later.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's good.
SPEAKER_00He became pastor of that church again, the same guy. Um they reconciled their differences.
SPEAKER_01But uh during the that caused you guys to not go to church for a while.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh but while my dad was working on the on the truck, he he got a when I was 14, we were still living in uh King City, or 13, I think. He finally got a job working on the truck, uh car hauling. And I was so proud of my dad because it was like, he's got a real job, like he's going to work. And he did that for about a he did it for a year before he needed mom. He was so dependent on her for everything. He was like, I can't do it anymore. I I need mom. And I was like, Yeah, we need mom too, but whatever. So then mom started going with him on the truck, and she would be gone for weeks at a time. So my older brother had to be legal guardian of us, so because he was 18. He's five years older, so he was 18. So he was legal guardian for us for another year and a half or almost two years, something like that. And it was tough. It I just remember a lot of arguments between my older and younger brother, and it wasn't fun, you know. I didn't want to see my brother uh that way as a parent. It was just weird, but I had to respect him
Fatherhood And A Son With Down Syndrome
SPEAKER_00that way, and he his rule was the law, you know. He was the boss, and we were the children, yeah, me and Kyle. And there was he would have certain ways to discipline us, and I didn't always agree. He'd always step in the middle and be like, hey, you're going too far, or whatever. And it was a lot, it was very stressful for my older brother. I could see the stress. He wasn't as happy with life, and he would spend a lot of time on the computer, like MSN chatting and AOL Messenger. And I never got into that kind of stuff. I I would rather be playing with toys or throwing a football or something sporty, or and my younger brother was busy um building computers. So they were both computer nerds, and I wasn't.
SPEAKER_01So, like, who was God growing up?
SPEAKER_00Um like we spent a lot of time at church. So for that those seven years while we were gone, I I never really I wanted to be at church. I liked it, I liked the routine, I liked going, and I never really wanted to be away, and but we had the option while while he was driving truck, we had the he said, Hey, you can go to church if you want, but we it was just felt weird without our parents there. So God growing up to me was just like a like a father, like like a holy guy in the sky that you pray to and try to have a relationship with. Not not very not very relational on my part, but it but I knew it was important to talk to him and to pray. So I would pray every day, every night. And when we started going back to church, um my uh the pastor at the time, uh Jean Ross, convinced my dad. He he came over all the way to King City, um, talked to my dad and had a great conversation. And uh some of the elders were there, and they said, Hey, come back. And it convinced my dad, and he we started going back to church, and we met a lot of great people, new new people in the church. We already knew a lot of people there, but uh new people were there and was really good, and we made a lot of new friends. And uh the pastor, the new pastor, kinda like was my mentor. Um I could go to him for anything, and my dad often would. Say, hey, I'm no good, you know, like you can do better than me, like teach my kids, or like um, I don't know. He would just like push me in that direction of, and I wanted to anyways, because he was a great help. And I would just go to him without an appointment, and just you know, like I was a dumb teenager, and just be like, I would just show up of show up at his office anytime, and he was just there for me. And I had lots of you know issues at the time, and he would pray with me and talk with me, and every he helped me through a lot of different things. I can't think of him enough for his steadfastness. He was our pastor for five years and he made an incredible difference on our church and in my life. I when I was going to college, I finally started to think, uh, maybe I should make appointments with him because his time is valuable. So I started doing that and started respecting his time better. And when you get smarter and you know, older teen in your younger 20s, you start thinking of other people and their time and that they're valuable. You know, people are their time, people's time is valuable, and they don't have to just do anything at the drop of a second, the drop of a hat. So he's talked he talked me through a lot of a lot of different issues that I had and a lot of different things. So he was one of the he was one of the pastors I listened, started listening to their sermons, and at 15 he would um he had a sermon where he said that we could uh talk to God and anytime, like pray without it was all about pray without ceasing. The whole this whole sermon was about that. He said, we could just talk to God anytime we wanted. So I took that literally, and I've been talking to God and having a relationship with him anytime I want to, and so I feel like I'm always in a state of prayer as of you know 15 years old, and I've always had a that type of from then on I had that type of relationship with him. So like I feel like I'm always talking to God, uh, and I often talk to myself, so I thought, well, I'll just direct those thoughts to God and instead, and he can hear me, he hears all my thoughts, so I'll pray. That's how I pray most of the time, and then at night I pray too. Not every single night, but um when I need when I need to. So I'm always in a that kind kind of a state.
SPEAKER_01So keep going, man. What happened?
Caregiving Burnout And Numbness
SPEAKER_03Uh let me see.
SPEAKER_00So, like our my experience growing up was every four or five years we would do something different. My dad would get convicted of doing something, and then we would just start doing something else, and then we'd kind of like go back and forth. So every four or five years we'd stop eating meat because he thought it was bad, and it was or stop watching TV, like TV is the devil, and uh cable is wrong, and so we we didn't have cable for like four or five years, and we didn't eat uh we stopped eating like every meat, even though it was just mostly bacon, you know. Most we would we wouldn't stop to bake and and and like because pig is bad for you, you know. There's all these Adventist things are like, you know, definitely don't eat pig because you know it's got all these diseases in it and all this thing, which is true, but um, but we would stop all meat, even though that's not really biblical. It's it's fine to eat clean meat, it's uh you know, but every four or five years it'd be like just going back and forth. Oh, we're watching TV again, and then like what? Why? Like I was doing fine, you know, I was fine without it, and he would kind of like forced us into it, like you know, TV's I want TV again. Okay. So like by the time we got cable again, uh I mean I was sad to see it go, but when we got it again, I think who's the boss was on and uh like uh Quantum Leap and uh I can't remember. But those were the those were the shows that were on, and we just kind of came in the middle of those. But I didn't need it, I didn't care. Kind of felt forced back into it. So I could go without TV right now if I wanted to. I I don't need it. Um but I don't it doesn't matter to me either way. Anyways, start watching TV again or start eating meat again, and then you know, at a certain point, we just my brother, my little brother Kyle, got tired of it. He was like, you know what, just let's just like he was 16. He was like, let's just stop eating meat, you know. He didn't like it, and I was like, you know, maybe yeah, maybe me too. So I stopped uh because mom's cooking was she was a good cook, but when she made uh anything meat related, it would just stink up the whole house. I can remember one time this chicken smell was just like terrible, just stink up everything. So it was kind of like my convincing, and then during college, um I was studying uh to be an exercise scientist, and there was a lot of uh biology type courses, and there was one bio uh science I was taking, and the teacher said that meat was uh muscles, and I was like, Oh, I never thought of it like that, and uh it made me feel real pukey, so so I just it grossed me out, but I don't have a problem with it, like I don't have a problem watching people eat it, or and I don't have a problem with people eating it in general. Like I could start eating it and I would have no problems if it's clean. Um so I'm not like convicted one way or another. Jesus ate fish, it's in the Bible. I don't care that much. It's just that it grossed me out at the time, and I'm a little less grossed out now.
SPEAKER_01But so you're just saying that your dad he went through these different phases growing up? Lots of phases.
SPEAKER_00So that's just how life was, and we wanted to pick a side, you know, we wanted stability, especially my younger brother, and he was he's he's more you met him, he's more uh go get it, get it done. Uh let's do this type of personality. Like, what are we waiting for? And I could wait all day. I I'm more patient and um than him. I can endure a
Health Crises, Depression, And Isolation
SPEAKER_00lot more uh crap, and he doesn't want to endure the crap. He's like, no, there's a way around this. That's my little little brother's perspective on life. And like, he's uh there's a better way to do this, there's a quicker way. So how old heads with dad?
SPEAKER_01So when when did you leave the house?
SPEAKER_00Until I got married. I um I got married at 23 or 22. Yeah, 22. And I didn't I didn't go off on my own, I didn't do anything. I just stayed at home until I found my wife, Jodi, I dated, and then uh we got married, and then I uh moved into her house.
SPEAKER_01So all of that growing up and with the I don't know how would you describe it, turmoil or all this stuff with your dad, how were you able to transition to being married?
SPEAKER_00Uh I mean I I I wanted to move out. I wanted to move out sooner, but my job didn't pay that much. And um I don't know. I felt like if I did, then my parents would be I felt like they needed me. And my older brother too. My older brother started paying rent. Just it was his idea to do that. And my dad was always like, Oh, I don't need it.
SPEAKER_03Uh but thanks.
SPEAKER_00He would act like that, but we knew he needed it. He was so bad with money, and he wanted, you know, he wanted to buy nice things. He was always a gadget guy. It had to have the latest, coolest phones, and the latest electronics, and uh a good enough computer. He would he would buy crappy computers. That's kind of a mind-boggling thing. He was always needing help on the computers, and that I think that's why my brothers are so good at fixing computers, is because he would buy e-machines, bad computers, and they would always break down and be like, Oh, Kyle, Keith, somebody help me. Like the computer is doing something weird, and we would they'd have to come and fix it.
SPEAKER_01So you felt bad leaving the house then a little bit?
SPEAKER_00Well, not not not when I got married, but I kind of would have felt bad if I had left and just been on my own, you know, like in an apartment or something. I didn't and I didn't, I guess I didn't have that much desire to. A little too lazy. I was kind of afraid.
SPEAKER_01So when you got married, did you live near your folks or did you uh move out of town?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we lived close, close enough. Uh in the same town, so it wasn't that far.
SPEAKER_03Probably 10 minutes. So what was that like? Yeah, keep going.
SPEAKER_00Uh well it was challenging being married, and the difference the difference in my childhood compared to married life was pretty astonishing. Like whenever my wife and I would have a disagreement or an argument, I didn't know what to do. I was uh deer in headlights, so I would shut down because that's what I learned. I knew I wasn't supposed to do that, and I was mature enough to realize why am I doing this? You know, it's like this is your not your dad, it's your wife. You can open up to your wife, and and she's someone I could open up to and and be honest with, and shared all of my past with, and uh we were best friends, and
Campfire Revival And Hearing The Gospel
SPEAKER_00I could tell her anything, and I did. I still do, but it was just hard to open up fully and say what I needed to say, even though I had all the thoughts in my head, I just couldn't say them.
SPEAKER_01Don't you think it would be weird if you would be able to do that? Like after living the way you'd live the whole your whole life? Yeah. Why why would that become natural after not living that way for 22, 23 years?
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, and looking back on it in recent or you know, past six years since freedom. I've given myself a lot of grace, and I can look back on those things and see that guy and say, hey, makes sense. Yeah, you had a tough childhood, and you had a lot of training in a particular way. I would always have to just sit there and take it for hours. So and I'm good at it. Like I could just sit there and just zone off. Well, I couldn't fully zone off when he when my dad was giving me a lecture. I couldn't fully zone out either because he would ask me questions and I would have to answer specifically. So I had to like listen to the whole thing.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, sometimes when people are like, why is this happening? I I think that it would be most of the time it's be strange if it wasn't happening. Like this is what we do. We we put this stuff in through our experience through life, and then it's strange that when it manifests, oh what no, it's it's not strange.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it's not too strange. You just grew up a particular way, and that's how things were. Uh not to say that things can't change and people can't change, and you have all the power to do so, especially through the help of the Holy Spirit. But give yourself grace. Uh, I've been doing that a lot lately. I've been realizing that grace is for me, it's not against me. And uh it's not an excuse to sin, but it is there to help you, help you in your journey with Christ.
SPEAKER_01So you yeah, absolutely, man. You got married, um, you're doing the marriage thing, there's ups, there's downs.
SPEAKER_00Um so one thing I'll point out is that my dad was hypersexual. So that that was just a thing, you know, just it stayed with me the whole time. And I have to mention that because it was a big part of my life. Watching him be hypersexual with my mom and doing things in front of us that you just shouldn't do uh with your watching your parents do certain just too much PDA. They didn't go, like they didn't they weren't.
SPEAKER_02But it was just uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00It was uncomfortable things are like, okay, why why? And then they would take it to the bedroom, like finally. And uh I don't know, we would make jokes about it uh when we were kids, like fake, like we were eating popcorn, just watching our parents make out, or um things like that. And dad thought it was funny, but then we would leave, or they would leave.
SPEAKER_01How did that affect you then later?
SPEAKER_00Well, I thought it was normal. So, like growing up that way and seeing my parents always being hyper-affectionate and hyper hands-on, especially my dad. But um, that was life for a long time. And then seeing that, and then going from that to marriage, and then I would just do some of those things to my wife, you know, like too much PDA, um, too, I was always too much in her bubble, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Um, it's because of what you'd seen, what you'd learned.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it yeah, and it was normal life, and I'm not trying to make an excuse out of it, but that's what I saw. And went but her with her parents, basically no PDA uh outside the bedroom. They would just they left it in the bedroom where it's supposed to be, and they would, you know, hug sometimes in front of each other or in front of their kids, or maybe a little smooch or something, but nothing crazy, you know. They were kind of like the opposite, you know, maybe not enough PDA.
SPEAKER_01Oh so that brought some friction then when you got married.
SPEAKER_00So when we got married, uh it was just a very stark contrast. And I didn't know how to deal with it or take it, or and I was like, what do you not love me or something? So I was exposed to uh like a lot of sexual things from from the PDA, but also through um TV. And we would at a too young of an age, we would watch rated R movies with our parents for whatever reason we were all out. And he would they would when nudity or too much violence would show up, they would my dad would say, Shut your eyes. But I had Had those images imprinted on me, you know, b younger than ten.
Freedom, Confession, And Marriage On The Brink
SPEAKER_00I think it was about nine when I first saw nudity. And I couldn't look away. I I didn't want to. I was like, what are they doing? You know? And he would always say, Shut your eyes, but I would peek through. But finally they got wise and stopped letting us like watch as much, or they would just be, okay, good time to go to bed. But I think that developed into a curiosity. And one time I noticed that my dad had rented a VHS that it said sex, sex, sex on it. So I think my dad had also problems as well with porn or those kind of things. And uh I had learned I I don't know if you want to keep this in, but I learned uh masturbating when I was twelve. And it was a s it's just that these things were a huge struggle for me. I started porn at 14 and I think it was because of the probably because of the movies they were in my mind. And I had I didn't have any coping mechanisms. I didn't know how to deal with all the lectures or the my dad being mad all the time, I didn't I had nothing to control, so I would controlled myself. So I felt better when I masturbated, and even though I was too young uh physically, at you know, I was and hadn't even gone through puberty yet. But I was, I don't know, I was determined to do it, and I thought I broke something when when things got real. And then uh at 14 I had somewhere to direct it. I I got on the computer and uh like somebody taught me how to do a search. I think it was a friend from high school, taught me how to do searches on the browser, and then my older brother said, Hey, you know there's a search history? I was like, What? And I was like, Okay, I gotta figure out how to delete this. Um, so I got good at covering my tracks. Um but I, you know, started porn and at 14, and uh that didn't that doesn't help things. That doesn't help your marriage. Just kinda porn for me was an escape and it was a coping mechanism, and I never wanted to keep it. I knew it was wrong, but I didn't know any other way to deal with stress. And I would always kind of like set dates for myself, you know how it goes. You've talked about that. Set a date that I'm not doing anymore after this date, and I'd set a date and like, and then I'd fail. Like, uh, that didn't work. I've done that too many times, and I'd get motivated sometimes and I'd quit for a while, but that never took. And I'd hear a sermon, or I'd hear um some guy came to our uh college once. Uh we are I was part of J crew, uh, which is a Jesus crew for uh for the campus, Missouri Western. Um they still did Christian things even though they're just a normal campus. Um but there was one guy that came, he was in his 40s, I think, and he was convicting us all. Hey, stop porn, stop this. It's not good, you'll keep doing it the rest of your life. Like get ahead of it now, quit now. And I was motivated, and suffice it to say, that didn't work either. I've researched a lot of ways to like stop doing it or like go to therapy and just not much has helped with with all with with all those previous things that I've tried. But but I am happy to report that now I I have I am not doing it currently. I haven't done it. I haven't done porn in since uh last year.
SPEAKER_01Talk about it like it's drugs. I haven't done porn. Yeah, but in a sense, it can be a good thing. It is like drugs. Like it's the same, it does the same dopamine uh release as propane as well.
SPEAKER_00Serotonin and dopamine and anorobenephrine, and it's a similar response. It's very similar. I've I've seen a lot of documentaries and read
Grief, Growth, And Redefining Fatherhood
SPEAKER_00a lot of research, sure, and of of drug users and alcoholics, and they're all kind of a little bit they're they're very similar in their in the way it hits. It hits like a drug, and you feel better, and you get this like feeling like finally I can relax, you know, I can think about the rest of my day now that I did the deed. You know, I did porn. Unless you have guilt, condemnation, and shame, and then you just get on the those things kind of like after after doing it for like 15 years, those things go away. You know? Uh just keep going, it'll go away. Yeah, you'll numb the shame. No big deal.
SPEAKER_01You did it for like 10 years. I mean, I don't know. I've never really done the math. I've said different numbers when uh you know, when it wasn't so easily accessible back then as it is now. And so but back then, you know, anything that you saw, like I would just feel so much guilt, condemnation, and shame. For me, the guilt, condemnation, and shame was far more deadly than the actual viewing of it, um, which I didn't get to that much, but the shame was so heavy. Um, but so you said that got into like in your marriage, like it it was no longer a like maybe you thought that that was gonna stop in marriage and it didn't, and um I'm sure calamity ensued.
SPEAKER_00Well, like the shame and the guilt, those just went away for a long time. I didn't and it just it was just part of my day, just did it, got it over with, now I can concentrate, and it was just a daily routine. And those um I remember the feeling guilty at first, you know, for a long time, about 10 years, and shameful and guilty, but it wasn't until way later that I started feeling that way again after, you know, at freedom. Like, okay, I feel it again. But uh yeah, it's hard to get back to that original feeling, and then yeah, with marriage, it doesn't help things. It it it it you don't really know how it affects you until you you don't do it anymore. Uh you don't have clarity in your mind until it's gone. Until you've it or and and or if you're taking a break, you know, if if you take like a five, six month break from it and you're like have a motivated episode or time, or you're like you're bootstrapping it, you're like, I'm not gonna do it, you know. Uh during those times I've felt the clarity and the damage it has done for my relationship. And just looking at it now of how marriage is such a covenant and a promise and a blessing. I kind of look at it like Noah and the Ark and how God made a promise. He said, I'm not gonna flood the earth again. I promise, and he sends a sign, a rainbow. And there were no rainbows before that. Like, and now there's rainbows, and like j God can just do that, like
Forgiveness, Perspective, And Closing
SPEAKER_00rainbows exist now. But that's the seriousness, that's the seriousness, and that's the magnitude of the promise, that covenant that he wanted to make with his people and his sign. And I kind of liken that to marriage as well, and how beautiful it is. Like it's that serious and it's that type of blessing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So to to sort of sully your marriage with with something uh sexually disgusting and sexually immoral, it just leads to problems and it leads to a cloudiness in your mind or in my mind, and I don't I can see clearer now, is what I'm saying. So it affects both of us.
SPEAKER_01So what what happened? Like you get in there, keep keep going with the story. What what ended up happening as you were struggling through this? Through through porn or yeah, and like in your marriage, like yeah, keep going with the story.
SPEAKER_00Well for just for that, just for the um just for the porn is is uh how you can relate to your wife. So we moved to Nebraska from St. Joe, and we start having kids. Um and I was like, I don't know, like, should I be a stay-at-home dad or should I keep working? I had a job at uh a daycare, a couple of daycares in Nebraska, and daycare for our daughter was going to be expensive, basically offset whatever I made. And uh, so I made a little bit more than the what a you know what what it would offset. So I was like, well, do we want to keep doing this? Uh our daughter's in a in a uh is in a nice or is in an in-home daycare, and I never really wanted her to experience just being a daycare kid or daycare life. I wanted her to her to be at home with her, someone that loves her and that I know that would take care of her the best, which is one of us, which would be me, you know, since I didn't have the good job. And but we had both decided that was the best course of action. So when she was about a year old, I started staying home with the kids. So I've been a stay-at-home dad for uh 11 years now, taking care of the kids. We had another uh son, uh two more sons, so I have three kids. Uh my middle son was we were surprised to find out at his birth that he had Down syndrome. Usually you get notified before that, or you're made aware of it before that. There are signs of it, but they didn't see any of that, so it was like, surprise, your son has Down syndrome. Uh and they immediately took him away and started pumping out 55 cc's of amniotic fluid. It was distended, his stomach was big. When he when he was born, um it's like it was kind of opposite to my daughter. My daughter was like the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. I kind of like had to sit down. The nerdices said, Oh, they thought I was gonna faint or something, but I was like, okay, whatever. But uh it's like she's so beautiful. And with my son, I was like, kind of looks funny. Oh well, like he's my son. I don't care, but they get cute at three months anyways. So I always kind of gangly and weird when they first come out, but not my daughter. She was beautiful at the onset. But my son, however, he was just kind of odd looking and uh he had clipped ears and bent fingers, and uh just his eyes were I didn't get too good of a look, but his eyes were mostly shut, so I couldn't really tell, but you can tell with the eyes. And they yeah, he was distended, he had Hirschbrun's disease and a duodenal atrecia, and uh they gave him a gastronomy tube, a G tube, and he was in the NICU for a month, and so he's hooked up to all these wires. He had a central line, he had wires coming everywhere, all down his stomach to pump the stuff out, down his stomach to feed him, wires hooked up, uh one in his chest, and that didn't work so well, and they had to move it, and then they had to put it in his skull, which is a central line. It was disgusting to look at. So because all the wires were everywhere, and he was it was pretty pitiful. And he with Down syndrome, um they learn things uh they have trouble learning, but but especially with the reflexes in the first month and first couple weeks, it's so important to get those reflexes down so that it becomes natural. But he couldn't do that, he couldn't suck and uh couldn't do much of anything. He was just sitting there in the bed being warmed and trying to get his oxygen up, he was low on oxygen. So we had to learn I had to learn a lot of after after we the NICU uh they sent us on our way, and I did not feel ready. Just as any parent would, like, after you know, only being a couple days at the hospital, they kick you out and you're like, What? I don't think I'm ready for this. Yeah, that's like your first kid experience, but second kid, I didn't I felt that too because they were doing everything for him and feeding him, and uh everything. It was just weird to if being going to Omaha for a month, they're like, Okay, here's your baby. I'm like, okay, uh, what do I do? So we had this gravity feeder, we had a pump feeder, and he we were trying, we had therapists for him, uh physical therapist, speech therapy, occupational therapy, teach each teaching him different things, and early childhood education is paramount for kids like that. They need they need early and uh to to develop the earlier the better. So, like with anything for him, gotta get it in early so he can develop later and have those skills set. So uh we did uh speech OT and PT for seven years before they said he's doing really good, not much to do now. Um so we had the the just learning to feed him was a huge challenge and very stressful. He could suck about he got up to at six months old, he could finally suck about three ounces in an hour. It took him an hour just to get three ounces. So then with the rest of it, I would have to either do the pump, which is a machine, or the gravity feeder. So you just hook it up on an IV thing. Uh it looks like a hospital thing, and you just hook it up and just slowly push it uh with gravity, put puts the rest of the milk in there. And we were not really comfortable removing his G button until he could get all his food through his mouth through eating. He enjoyed eating, uh, so he kind of learned that fairly quick, yeah, quicker than the bottle. And he he still kind of does that to this day where he he kind of spits everything like with his tongue, he spits it all out. He still has that reflex rather than just chewing your. Food with your teeth, you kind of choose it with his tongue. So he he's kind of like a snake, he just swallows everything whole. Um but uh yeah, so this was I had to yeah, I had to quit my job at the Y. I I had a job uh at that time working part-time because I thought things are going well with uh my daughter Aliyah and um I got a part-time and had a we had a routine. So I quit at the Y to focus on Logie because he was intense, and just every it took so long to do everything for him, and like putting him in daycare would have been a nightmare. Like putting all that care on them and with all the scheduling of the therapists would have been insane. Uh so it was all on me to do that.
SPEAKER_01What what did having uh a son with Down syndrome, how did it um how did it change things? Like if things were going a certain way and you're doing okay, how did how did it affect you?
SPEAKER_00Well there was a night that I he was crying. He was usually a good sleeper, he would sleep all through the night. He was crying and we were up. It was like two in two in the morning, we were both groggy. My wife had to hold him down while I did the procedure. It was it was basically a half-hour long procedure just to put his bag back on. You gotta go through all these stupid little steps. Basically, my wife would have to hold him down because he was squirming the whole time. He hated it, he hated it so much. And then I'm the guy that has to inflict the pain. This is what's going through my mind. This is what how I felt about it. Like, I'm causing him pain, I'm hurting him. I felt like I was hurting him, and he was my pitiful little little guy. Like, I had all this pity for him, and I felt so sorry for him. And my wife was holding him down, and I'm just like, I can't do this again. Like, they were doing this for like almost three months, and it was hard seeing him like thrash, thrash around and hate it so much. So I would uh I felt like the bad guy, but I would get it done, and most of the time, but I just this re time it was just late and I couldn't do it. I hated it, and I went in the other why my wife was trying to calm me down, she said go in the other room and like just take a break and then come back and do it. And so I did. I banged my head on the wall. I took a couple minutes. I I literally banged my head against the the wall and the door, and I think I punched the door. Um and then I tried to calm down and I came back in and got it over with. But then from that point on, I I needed help. I uh I'm needed to see him different. I convinced myself that he was just a piece of meat on a on a table with a crying face. That he wasn't.
SPEAKER_03He wasn't my son. He wasn't what I wanted so to endure.
SPEAKER_00I I d I didn't I looked at him different and I treated him different. And I just hated that I was hurting him. I hated that feeling that I that I was the the guy that gave him pain. So I flipped a switch. I just like in the in the at that night, I just was like like a light switch. Like, okay you're just you're just a piece of you're the thing, a piece of meat, you're a crying face with a body. And I uh pity turned into hard work and hatred. And I became emotionless. Um I took my stress out on him. I uh I was an emotionless beast.
SPEAKER_01All this is to deal with this stress that you can't handle. You were able to handle or manage these feelings.
SPEAKER_00This is all while hating myself at the same time. I mean, I wasn't happy with me, I wasn't proud of doing any of that. I I just didn't want to deal with it. I hated it, and then we have another kid, and I was like, I was so done with children, you know, like I didn't want any more, but we had another son, Gwen. But my wife was like, I I want another because I don't want like part of the reason was because the second pregnancy was so kinda terrible that she didn't want to end kids feeling that way. I I don't know what women think, but or how they think, but she just wanted another one to feel to feel better, but also I don't know. She just did. And it kind of caused more stress, even though he's he's a delight. Um he's wonderful, he's a cutie pie. All my kids are wonderful, but I at this time I'm just dragging through life. I'm uh more depressed. I mean, I've been depressed since I was probably ten, since as far back as I can remember, I just always felt bad about life and not happy. I can remember being actually happy and loving life before I was ten. But after that I just realized that life sucked, and all you'd get is yelled at and hurt feelings, and like I don't matter, and I was always talked down to, and couldn't even go to the college I wanted to. I wanted to actually go to union, but my dad called me an a-hole for thinking of that, and I was the bad guy, and I didn't know why. So at this time I'm taking uh antidepressants, and I'm very antisocial, and I'm introverted. I used to be an extrovert, I would always enjoy people. I get my energy, that's what extrovert and introvert means is that you get your energy from being around people. An introvert gets their energy from just being alone, and then they can go socialize.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00But I've learned to be an introvert just by staying at home and being a stay-at-home dad, and like it's pretty great being introverted, like uh and then you go out and socialize, but I didn't get much socialization, still kind of don't. But um trying various therapists and uh it therapy helps.
SPEAKER_01Um the kids is when it all just kind of came to a head then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I'm like I don't know, 35 at this time, and I'm trying to quit porn again, and I'm trying to get close to God, and then I'm just everything it's just and I'm anti antidepressants, but then turn 36. Uh and uh when I'm 35, I was I when I was 35, I was hospitalized uh for shingles. So like these things start happening with me physically. Uh I'm like, okay, well, that's new, but this new thing kind of develops into more things, and I've haven't been in good health since then. And I've just been in the hospital in and out kind of for different things. So, like uh my gallbladder at 36, I started having gallbladder disease, and they said, and I couldn't figure it out for a long time, but I went into the ER and they were like, hey, guess what, you're have a blockage, and you should probably get it removed. But um I haven't got it removed yet. I still don't know if I want to, but there's uh there's arguments for either way, like there's a lot of research either way you go, whether you keep it or not. So uh that's an issue. I have to watch what I eat, I have to avoid certain foods, and if I do that, then I'm pretty okay most of the time. But I've always kind of worried about it. It's something I have to think about every day. Uh, if I eat too much dairy or or if I eat uh can't eat beans, pretty good much have my diet down now, and lately I've been on a uh just a better diet for me to deal with it and been doing well and feeling better and having a lot less uh pain, painful episodes. But at 36, I was just tired of myself again and uh being up and down spiritually, and so I start reading my Bible more.
SPEAKER_03Um and that's when about the time I met you. Yeah, so what happened?
SPEAKER_00Oh, also I had developed alopecia from the stress, so uh you're like you can just get hair loss in places. I had uh hair loss, alopecia areyata in my a really big spot in the back of my head. I stopped off to get a haircut from my friend, and she was like, Hey, you got a huge ball spot back here. I was like, wow, like how does that happen? It was the stress from dealing with all the remorse and guilt and pain and and my son, Logi Logan, dealing with him and thinking of him in the worst way and hurting him. But I meet on October 24th, 2020, I meet about seven people that changed my life. My cousin through marriage grant invited me to a campfire, campfire revival. And I was like, sweet, get out of the house, no kids for a weekend, it's gonna be awesome. Like uh that's how life is, it's just kids all the time. All I all this the stay-at-home life, but stay-at-home parent life is all you got you got the kids like at 24-7, feels like. So I don't get many breaks, so I jumped at this opportunity to see my, you know, see family. And they said it was like a revival thing. They were gonna invite more people, and that's about all I knew. So I get there and they were gonna have food too. I'm just like, yes, awesome. So we get there and we're sitting around a campfire. And basically, that's the first time I heard the gospel, the real, actual good news. Like I had how had I not heard it before? Like I grew up in church, been to church most of my life, and I had never really heard the gospel message until you, Eddie, Jayla, Natalie all started talking about it. And at the end of that day, it was an all-day event. Uh, I think you started talking first, and you were talking about your crappy marriage. Uh, trash, you said trash, trash marriage, and I could relate because my marriage had gone kind of dark after Logie, my son, and we just had arguments a lot, and uh, I mean, I wouldn't describe my marriage as trash or like garbage, but like I would have said we had issues and we had problems, and we didn't always know how to work through them, and I would shut down too much and not speak up, and uh just felt like failing, you know, failing as a husband. I don't have the job, so I felt like a failure in that regard too, and I don't make us any money. I work on the house, and that's kind of how I contribute. I've worked on all our houses uh as a handyman and just fix anything that needs fixed, but apart them apart from that I felt like a loser. But but you guys are talking about the gospel, and then Eddie is talking about his marriage and how he cheated on his wife, and at the time I was like, a scumbag. I've got my log in my eye, you know, and the I'm looking at his splinter in his eye, and I'm like, what a douche. Like he's terrible. But then, you know, it's like it hits me later. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm I'm bad too. I'm not much better. We all have our sin, the the the particular sins that we deal with, and we the things that we have with in life that we're dealing with. And then uh Jayla's talking about how her relationship with the Holy Spirit has been rock solid, and then when her husband cheated on her, she like three days later forgave him, and I was like, how could you do that? And why? Like, that's insane. And then Natalie starts talking, and she said something that hit me before she started talking. You you said, Hey, how's this landing? Like, and I didn't want to, I was still like, you know, reserved and just kind of taking it all in. I didn't want to talk or anything, but you're very bold and you you don't know a stranger. But she when she started talking, I I was listening, and she's very mellow and relaxed and uh just easy. And even when her kids were interrupting, I saw how she was with her children.
SPEAKER_03And I wished that I could be like that.
SPEAKER_00So loving and compassionate to them. And she was getting interrupted a lot.
SPEAKER_03There she was. So sweet. She said something that resonated with me.
SPEAKER_00She didn't have like confidence or I kind of forgot what it was, but it spoke to me in in hit me hard. Like she she didn't have that kind of confidence, or she didn't wasn't confident in herself, or I don't know exactly how she put it, but but that's the phrase that that's the thing that hit me the most. And I was like, what me too? Like that's how I felt growing up this whole time. That I that I didn't that's what I was missing. Like now I can put a label on it, and I had something to call it. Like and then later she prayed with me.
SPEAKER_03And it was really special.
SPEAKER_00And from I don't know, from that point on. I think two years later. So I'm like, you know, like free now. I have this is what we call it freedom, you know, free free from sin. Romans 6 7, you're free from sin. And we're calling it freedom. Other a lot of other people call it saved or born again. So I'm walking in freedom from that point on. And I felt like I was baptized by the Holy Spirit. And even though I had been, I had been baptized with water when I was 19, it wasn't, it was because my dad wanted me to. He said, Hey, my my mom's getting baptized. Would you get baptized too? And I said, Okay, sure. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. And I went to the Bible studies and I got baptized, but it it wasn't real until that night. Until the October 24th. It wasn't real until I was 36, and I finally understood what it meant the good news that and the power of what he had done in becoming he became since for me.
SPEAKER_03So I felt a weight lifted.
SPEAKER_00Couple years prior to this, I had been convicted and I wanted to change, and I was going in and out like, okay, this just stop, just just quit now. When I heard the gospel, it was just set in stone from then on. And then I told my wife a couple years later. And that was I was going back and forth on whether I should tell her, but when it comes to your son Your wife deserves to know everything, you know. I told her and yeah, like not from a guilty conscience, just more out of respect. Like, this is what I did. I mean, like, she knew who I was now in freedom. I've been telling her and everybody, like gospel stuff and calling my family, and like, hey, I guess, like I'm free, free from sin. Like, this is awesome. And don't you know you are too? And you know, I'm trying to rattle off gospel my parents and my brothers. That's tough. It is, and they don't see it the same way. And what are you a Baptist now? I'm like, Gail.
SPEAKER_01No, but how did it go when you told your wife?
SPEAKER_00Not good. Uh basically, she was done with the marriage. She's like, you don't want this, you don't want the kids, you don't want me. We're done. There's nothing to talk about. I said, I pleaded with her on June 5th, 2022. I said, just let just hear, just let me talk with you tonight, please. Let's just I'll explain whatever you want me to explain to you. I'll tell you anything. So then later that night we talked. And somehow, through the grace of God, I was able to convince her that I was different, that I'm not the same guy, that I was dead and I died with Christ. He lives now. I live. I was raised with he was went to the grave. I went to I was raised with him, he was raised. Um I don't I don't remember exactly what I told her, but it was a lot of gospel. And said some weird things too, but I probably shouldn't have said, like, oh, you think you you're such a saint, you've done blah blah blah too.
SPEAKER_01Normal kind of like work, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I mean I mostly kept it real and kept it about me and what I had done, and and uh it's not gonna happen anymore. And I'm not that person anymore because that person died. You're that was Adam one, and now I'm Adam Two. Or Kevin 2.0 as I like to call it. So it basically she said, Okay, I'm giving you another chance. Basically, don't blow it. Uh so um June that was June seventh, two days later. She gave me a second chance. And then we went to see my uh Aunt Connie again for like a little get to family get together. Uh Jade was there and Nate and Michaela were there. We th we thought maybe Jody would hear some more gospel stuff, but uh that didn't really work out. She didn't she hears what she needs to at the right time, I guess. That's how it works. So yeah, so I've just been sharing gospel with my family and pretty much anyone. Um my dad died in 2024, so over a year, and then my father-in-law died last year in September, and that's what motivated me to quit porn, and I haven't done it since then, so I feel like it there needs to be a trauma for me to like realize something or a big event to make me change my mind on things. Um but that's kind of how trauma works. And they are motivators and they can be big motivators in your life.
SPEAKER_01So you've just been growing and maturing and putting off these old things as you've been just seeing the reality of the gospel.
SPEAKER_00Been a lot of other things that I've let go uh during the past six years, just yeah, learning and growing, and but especially more now in this past few months, just my father-in-law dying was insane. He meant everything to me. Like he was such an amazing father-in-law. He was like the father I never had, the f the dad that I wanted. He was involved with our lives, he's involved with his kids' lives, he was always there when we needed him. He was so reliable and dependable. He was someone I could call and talk to, and if I ever had an issue, he would help like anything house and fixing related, he was the guy. So, like if I couldn't figure it out on my own, like Google, YouTube, and whatever, I would call him and he would be like, This is what you do, and I didn't have that anymore. And it not having him is a trauma, and it hit us all really hard. But for me, just breaking down in tears, wishing he was here, has been mostly therapeutic because of all the good that he did.
SPEAKER_01That's beautiful. It's good that you're experiencing it. Life is there's gonna be plenty of experiences in life that aren't good, and yet we do have to experience them and let that be a sign of how much you loved him and see it that way. I'm hurt and I'm sad because I really loved him, and we don't have to suppress it or repress it, we could just experience it.
SPEAKER_00That's how it should be. Yeah. It was different when my dad died because there was a lot of pain in that experience.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I I wasn't wishing that he was I mostly wishing that he would be put out of his misery. Like he was in pain a lot. He had been he had a lifetime of pain, like just physical ailments. And for the past ten years he had been dying. So it was just very slow, a very slow death.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, I think if as you look back and you see what has happened in your life, um, so much of life has been colored by our past and all of these different things. And um, yeah, that that all comes with the experience, and we can praise God that the truth has changed us, and we can look at that experience differently. Like your youth, your growing up. Um you can see it through the eyes of truth rather than hold on to resentments and bitterness. You move in for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I also saw my dad as uh just I saw a lot of similarities too, and I always understood why he was doing what he was doing. He would always explain, and that was good. I just have a lot of understanding for him and mental illness, just watching him while growing up and having his mental illness. Uh either you could go one way or the other, like you could either be shaped by it that you're resentful your whole life, or you or you can do what I did and have just an understanding of it, and I don't know. It's just yeah, it's peaceful peaceful knowing that you understand, then that it's it's not they're not doing things because they hate you or hate the world, they're doing because they have issues that their brain chemistry is not right.
SPEAKER_01Nothing is ever personal. Yeah. If we take it personally, we're in trouble because nothing ever is personal. Um, it's you it's it's what they're dealing with, and God bless them. Um praise God that we don't have to, you know, how Jayla said it, she she didn't take it personally because it wasn't personal, it was Ed's problem. In the same way, you don't have to take what your dad did personally. Because, you know, him lecturing you for a whole day, that that's that's what's going on with him. Whether you didn't sign up for classes or didn't get your homework done or whatever, the whatever he was lecturing you on. Yeah, that's something that he had to deal with. And uh yeah, God bless him. So as you look back on this stuff and you see what God has done, if you could talk to Kevin, if you could go back to Kevin as he's going through all of that. Um and you get to put your arm around him, how would you encourage him?
SPEAKER_03I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00I don't really. I don't really think you can go back to the past and like change things, but I just think if I had heard it from me, I don't I don't know if I would have believed it. I think I needed other people to tell me. I think I needed I think the right people at the right time delivered the right message and spoke to me. So if I had heard it from me, I I might not have listened. But I heard it from the right people.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's awesome how God works, the Holy Spirit works. You and I in the natural would never like I don't know if we kick it in the natural. Like we do have some things in common, you know, about being from Missouri and stuff like that. But um in the spirit, it's different. We're tied together through Christ. And um, that's a beautiful thing. And it's been a pleasure to see you grow through the last few years. I know I've been growing, I think all of us have been growing. And uh to see that, and to see your love for Christ and your love for your family and your love for your children. Um like this is this is a serious thing to you. This is not this is not a game, this is your life, and so to see God transform your life, it's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is awesome. It's been nothing short of transformative.
SPEAKER_01And it's just gonna get worse, right? As we keep going, like this is five years down the road, it's it's not going away. We're growing more and more in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it only gets better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. Well, thank you for coming on and telling your story and uh being vulnerable. And uh yeah, you're a testimony to all of us, Kevin.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, and you are as well. All right, man, praise the Lord.