Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#254 Camille Leach: Free From Mom Rage
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We trace Camille’s journey from childhood fear and college doubt to a practical, grace-filled approach to parenting. Identity in Christ, renewing the mind with Scripture, and simple practices transform shame, mom rage, and marriage strain into steady peace.
• fear-led faith reshaped by Scripture
• Peru breakthrough on Pharaoh and God’s wrath
• union with Christ and freedom from sin in Romans
• Alaska hardship, loss, and identity crisis
• naming shame as the engine of mom rage
• four-step reset after yelling to break cycles
• rooting worth in Christ, not performance
• rewiring triggers with verses and visualization
• releasing control, gossip, and bitterness
• speaking life: “describe what you see”
• anger as a signal, not a master
• training kids with Scripture and respectful disagreement
• building contentment and truth-telling identities
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Opening Theme And Purpose
SPEAKER_02The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
SPEAKER_06So finally, now I say that I was a goody to shoot, but obviously, there's all these um you know, sins that we can anyway. There just there's all these like things that we can still have, like baggage, but it's just not open. So anyway, so finally though, I was like, I have like an open sin that I need to have victory over because it's affecting my kids. I and so it really made me like anyway. That was when my pride started to drop and be like, okay, I need help. I'm a Christian, I know I can have victory over sin. I know I can have, you know, it says that we're free and we're uh free from sin, yeah. Free from sin over like five times in Romans 6. And I'm not experiencing that. So, Lord, like what's going on?
SPEAKER_02Yo, welcome to the Death Alive Podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's guest is Camille Leach. And what a beautiful story, what a beautiful person. Uh, you'll hear her heart for mothers, her heart for kids, and her heart for moving in righteousness and living the way you want to in Jesus Christ. And uh this testimony was a blessing to me, and I've been learning so much about these things, parenting that it just came at the right time. So I think you'll be encouraged, I think you'll be blessed. This is Camille. Uh love y'all, appreciate y'all. Buckle up and strap in. Um, this is a great episode. All right, this is another one of these podcasts that we have literally spoken for uh four minutes total of our entire lives. I just met you, I've never met you in person, but you came like, yo, you need to get this person on the podcast, and I said, Who? And they said, Oh, this this person has an amazing story. So, Camille, yeah, we just met, but it's cool, right? Like, you've got a tell about freedom, and so that's what hooked me. Where are we going? Where are you starting the story? Take it.
SPEAKER_06Well, I'm gonna start when I was like five years old. So I grew up in like a loving family. I was told all the Bible stories. My parents were super lovely, but I had nightmares that I was not gonna be saved.
SPEAKER_00Oh mercy.
SPEAKER_06Like, I would have nightmares literally of um like Jesus Christ coming back a second time, and I would like be seeing all my friends and family going up in heaven. And um, it was really rough, and I didn't want to hear anything.
SPEAKER_02The church I grew up in that's theologically incorrect, right? Do you know that the wicked don't come, they don't like that's that's not their resurrection? Or or you're alive at this point, so you didn't resurrect, right? So that's the people are being translated. Okay, that's not theologically incorrect. Okay, okay, we're good.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And so what a nightmare.
SPEAKER_02That's terrible.
Doubt In College And Hard Questions
SPEAKER_06Well, it was horrible, and I don't have the multiple times. And so even listening to certain Christian songs was sending me into like a fear spiral. Um, the church I grew up in talks a lot about end-time events, and like I didn't want to hear any of it. I was so scared. Um, but yet at and I was so growing up, I was always involved in spiritual um leadership, being like a chaplain, being involved in like sub-school leadership, chap, like like class chaplain or essay chaplain. I was very devoted to God, but I didn't have my my relationship with God wasn't like rooted in scripture. And obviously, I had a lot of fear about God. Um, and so anyway, now five-year-old Camille now headed to college sophomore year. I started, I I I had a boyfriend, and he um, super intelligent guy, and he started really questioning my like when when throughout the time we were dating, he started questioning his beliefs in God. And so he um was throwing me all these questions that I hadn't, and I was a chaplain, the girl's worm chaplain at my college that year. So I was in a leadership, spiritual leadership position. But I did not know how to answer those questions, and they sh they and I just totally I started spiraling. I was like, I don't even know if I believe in God, I don't know if I believe what kind of questions were these? Okay, so he said basically, like it says in the Exodus that God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_06And so if God hardened Pharaoh's heart, then basically he can like choose whose heart he's gonna harden. And um, like that's like some Calvinism.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like a little Calvinism in there.
SPEAKER_06And he's like, that's not how God loves. I mean, that's not a loving God. So how can you believe in like a Bible that contradicts itself? Like Jesus is loving, the Father in the Old Testament is not. How do you, how do you, um, how do you believe in God like that and believe in a Bible? And I didn't know. And um I my my bot my faith was not rooted in the word of God. And so I I was so depressed, he ended up breaking up with me.
SPEAKER_02Um He's like, explain to me why God hardened Pharaoh's heart or we're not going forward. All right, this isn't it for us.
SPEAKER_06Um, anyway, it was a good thing he broke with me, but I was to that, I was so heartbroken. Anyway, I was planning to be a student missionary. A student missionary is where you go away for like six to nine, twelve months then following year. And my dream was always to go to Africa, but and I was like going to go to Africa for my Were You Were you a social work major? No, no.
SPEAKER_02Because you you have this. I just I worked at a college for nine years, and there was seems like girls like you who were super sweet, super loving, they would all go into social work and then they would burn out, they would find out what social work was about, and they had kind of your just like genuine. I like we just met, but I feel like you have genuine care for people.
SPEAKER_06Yo, yeah, I'm a definitely a feeler, a compassionate feeler. Um and yeah, I definitely have those tenants I've had to learn how to have boundaries because yeah, I I I used to burn out all the time.
SPEAKER_02What was your major?
SPEAKER_06Um, okay, so I started as theology and then I ended up going to physical therapy, and then science was too hard for me in college.
SPEAKER_02So it's harder in college. They they they don't tell you that it gets harder.
SPEAKER_06And so then I ended up graduating with a um a health promotion and I became a personal trainer.
SPEAKER_02Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_06And a contritionist.
SPEAKER_02But I threw you off from your story. You were gonna go be a student missionary.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So anyway, I ended up at the last minute choosing this place in Peru because kind of like what you're saying, it was girls that had basically girls that were abused, kicked out on the street, were pregnant, and this this this organization took the girls in and took care of them. So some of the girls were pregnant at teens. Anyway, and that drew my heart. I'm like, I want to go help those girls, even though I don't speak their language. So I ended up going to Iquitos Peru with People of Peru project. Great experience. Um, so I remember about maybe four weeks in, like, have you been to the tropics?
SPEAKER_02Uh does Hawaii count? I don't uh I've been to Nicaragua. I don't know how close to the equator that is.
SPEAKER_06That's tropics. Okay, so I was in Peru and I was sitting on the second story of our porch. The girls were all in bed and it was dark, and but there was lightning flashing. And I remember I wrote this poem and I said, Lord, I want to know your truth. Because remember, I'm questioning like Buddha, like Buddhists, Islam, um, what do we mean? All these different religions. I'm like, I'm open to exploring because I I I don't like if this Bible isn't true, then like the whole the whole world of religion is open.
SPEAKER_01Right.
Peru, Lightning Prayer, And Breakthrough Bible Study
SPEAKER_06Um, and so I said, Lord, I want to know your truth, just like so it was a lightning storm. And when the lightning would would uh flash, you could see all the details. So like they have um huts made out of banana leaves, and you could like see the holes in the banana leaf roofs of the huts that lived around us. And I was and so it was pitchback dark, but when the lightning shone, you could see all the details of of like the holes in the roof. I'm like, Lord, I want to know your truth, just like the lightning like shines and shows all the details. So um, that was my prayer. And so then about a week later, another American I was working with invited me to a Bible study that another American family that was working at the organization was doing. And then I was like, my pride was like super high. I was like, I don't need to go to any Bible study. I grew up Christian my whole life, I know everything. Um anyway, but I was like, but and this girl was like a new convert to Christianity from like Catholic, from being a Catholic. And so I was like, okay, I at least got to show my face. Anyway, I did. Well, believe it or not, guess what the Bible study was about? Oh God heart the the Bible study on how God hardens Pharaoh's heart.
SPEAKER_02Mercy. And so the boyfriend. Let's be together.
SPEAKER_06So the lady took me through this um Bible study of how like she shows in like Zach the book of Zachariah how people harden their heart when they turn away from God. And um, it's like it's it's like a natural thing that happens when we choose to reject God's voice. The natural thing is our heart will get hardened. And anyway, she just showed me like that's that's what happened to Pharaoh. And I was like, wow, and so that was just a huge light bulb. And then she did a Bible, the next Bible study was on the wrath of God, which you know, for me, I was so scared of God my whole entire life. And then the Bible said she showed me how um in like Romans 1 that God's wrath is him giving us over to what we have chosen from from Romans 1.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06And and I was just like, oh my! So I I I turned 180 degrees and like there was no internet, there was nothing. So I could just read my Bible, and and so that started me on my journey. And this lady was she she's one of my best friends to this day, she's so knowledgeable in the Bible, and um anyway, it was just incredible. So I came home like on fire for God, and um, she introduced me to this man from Barbados that she was in ministry with, and she's like, hey, he does really good Bible study. So me and a few friends got on Zoom to do Bible study, and um he started teaching, he taught me the two atoms. He taught me like from Romans 5, he started teaching from Romans 6, Romans 8, um, you know, how we're saved by faith, how it's not my righteousness, but it's God's righteousness, you know, we're saved through Jesus Christ's righteousness. And so it was just really, it was really incredible. And he started sharing me too about uh have you heard of E. J. Wagner or A. T. Jones?
SPEAKER_02Uh these boys from California, the 1888 message that yeah, I've heard of them, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so he so I started sharing how like those were the the two boys or you know, men that that anyway they learned this message from about the two atoms. And if you like when you read their messages, they I mean he talks about Romans 6 and how you're like um you're free of sin. And so anyway, I was just wow, I was just like, wow, this is incredible truth. So and interesting enough, he invited me to his camp meeting in Barbados. I met his son there, my husband, Christian, got married a year later.
SPEAKER_02You're like, I've met this random guy who taught me all this stuff from Jones and Wagner, go over to the island and then just marry his son a year later. All right. Yeah, it's a common tale, but true.
Romans, Two Adams, And A New Framework
SPEAKER_06Okay, there's a really interesting point though, I think you'll like. Um, so when I met Christian, he was dating someone. But I was like instantly attracted to him. And I was like, Lord, I know it's not right for me to like someone that is in a relationship. So if this is meant to be, please break them up. Well, the next day I heard that they broke up.
SPEAKER_02But I was like, well, I you told God to home wreck them so so you could start dating them. Let's go. Won't he do it? What don't ever say God doesn't answer prayer, okay?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but I knew I couldn't be forward, he just broke up. So the Lord showed me the story of the two covenants um with Abraham and and Sarah, and how when Sarah, Abraham tried to do it in his own way through Hagar, it ended up in ruins.
SPEAKER_02Not good.
SPEAKER_06But when God Abraham trusted God, the promise came, the promise son came. So the Lord was like, Camille, let me bring it in your in my time. Do not try and do it this in your way. So I just kept my mouth shut until Christian voiced his attraction to me about two months later.
SPEAKER_02So anyway, it worked out. That's a lovely story. The the Sarah and Hagar aspect and God uh poisoning, God hardening their hearts towards each other, you know. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So so you guys got married a year later. Where did you get married in Barbados?
SPEAKER_06No, we got married in America. He had to come in on a visitor's visa.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_06So, um, so anyway, so um, so about six now we're gonna fast forward six years, and um, we were living in Alaska at the time.
SPEAKER_02And what part of Alaska? Why Alaska?
SPEAKER_06Valde's.
SPEAKER_02What were you doing up there? So fishing?
SPEAKER_06Well, me and my husband have a bit of an adventure spirit, and when I had a six-month-old or three-month-old, we decided to drive my a friend of ours told us about a job where you can make really good money driving the truck for the fish.
SPEAKER_02That sounds like super dangerous. Am I wrong? Is it it sounds crazy dangerous?
SPEAKER_06Well, which one? Driving up the Alcan to Alaska or driving a truck for the fish?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Like both of them. Driving a big old truck with fish, that sounds scary to me. I don't know.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's only like um, I mean, you're only driving maybe like five miles between the cannery and where you pick up the fish.
SPEAKER_02The cannery. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Or I'm like you say, the cannery.
SPEAKER_02Is that the same as the hatchery?
SPEAKER_06Um, no, not quite. Cannery is where they can all the salmon.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
Meeting Christian And Learning Surrender
SPEAKER_06And then we drive it to the port. So sorry, the cannery to the port. And it was only like a few miles from each other.
SPEAKER_02And you get big bucks to do that.
SPEAKER_06You you're supposed to, but that year was a record-breaking heat heat heat that summer. And so all the salmon went to the bottom of the ocean.
SPEAKER_02The salmon went they the they flew to Papistrano.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, we were broke in debt, and the money we were supposed to get to get out of debt, and then be able to buy a house back in the lower 48. And so we were stuck in Alaska.
SPEAKER_02And um That is an adventure.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So anyway, it was it was pretty rough on my husband. We ended up our our trailer ended up burning down, killing two of our three dogs. So there was a lot of hardship.
SPEAKER_02Hey, hold on, why did it burn down?
SPEAKER_06Um, that my dog knocked over the heater one night. And anyway, my husband forgot to do something one night, and anyway, we're just grateful didn't burn the God's mercies were involved, but yeah, it was rough.
SPEAKER_02Mercy. So, this is how many years into marriage? You're like five years into marriage of this?
SPEAKER_06Six years. So, um, so yeah, we are our marriage is feeling it, definitely. You know, you're in debt, you're yeah, it was and winter in Alaska, you don't have sun. Um depression. Yeah, and I and I got pregnant with my husband having a job, and then he got fired, and then he didn't have a job. So there was that aspect. So I was going through a lot. Um, we were living in like a really dingy bed bed and breakfast, and I my I was so I was just so mortified. I'm like, if people saw me living in this, like, well, who would they think I am? And so that that was like I my identity was not in the right place. And anyway, so during this time, Emily sends me wave one. Oh, Emily, Emily Moore or Koo, um from Justin's wife.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_06She's like, hey, my life is being changed, you gotta listen to these. And so at the time, um, I started listening to them, but I had a lot of pride in my heart of like, because I'm like, oh, I already know all this stuff. And and so I had I had pride in my heart. I'll be very open to admit that.
SPEAKER_02And so I it's let's be fair. When somebody sends me a podcast, I immediately like, cool, and then I'm in my mind, I I say to myself, I will never ever listen to this. Just it's just like, I don't know. It's like something. Somebody sends you something, and there's like a thing, you're like, I'm not gonna watch that. Yeah, is that pride? Do I need to pray about that? It's just it's a feel always be open to it.
SPEAKER_06God wants to, I you know.
SPEAKER_02I love it. I love it. So you started watching it in that when the pride was coming in, or you're like, why would you send this to me? I know this stuff already.
SPEAKER_06No, when I was watching it, okay, and you know, and I heard the prodigal, the story of the prodigal son, and I'm like, that story, I don't know, to me, that story became so lukewarm because you just hear it all all the time over and over again. And I'm like, I can't get anything new out of this story. Um, but it was always in the back of my mind, I was like, oh, that's so cool. Other people are talking about the two atoms. Like, and I was so happy for Emily. Um and so then fast forward three years, now we're living in Georgia. We we moved a lot.
SPEAKER_02Um before you tell that, how'd you get out of Alaska? Did you just for like just we're just gonna drive out of here?
SPEAKER_06So no, my husband got a job in Oregon working at a so my husband used to breed American bullies.
SPEAKER_02And they're American what?
SPEAKER_06American bullies.
SPEAKER_02What's that?
SPEAKER_06It's uh so it's like a pit bull, but it's like a higher standard of a pit bull.
SPEAKER_02So you guys owned pit bulls or you just had them around?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, we own American bullies.
SPEAKER_02So people will pay like they as are they as tenacious as pit bulls?
SPEAKER_06No, no. So they were bred to be nannies.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
Alaska Hardship, Loss, And Debt
SPEAKER_06But but my um, I mean, obviously, if you treat a dog bad, sure, they're gonna be bad. But they're extremely kind. We our dogs were all over my kids, and or my kids were all over, my babies were all over them.
SPEAKER_02Um and so uh like come to Oregon and breed American bullies.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so he needed this this man was making really good money selling dog puppies for like$50,000. Um, anyway, but I quit my job right now.
SPEAKER_02I'm going to Oregon and I'm in the American bully business. That's where I'm going right after the podcast.
SPEAKER_06He needed someone to take care of his dogs. Like he had like 12 dogs.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_06So he's like, and he needed some he could trust. And my hat, and he was like, man, the only person I can really trust is you. Will you come down and take care of my dogs? So that was our ticket out of Alaska because he paid Krishna income. And yeah.
SPEAKER_02Man, you never look at God. You never know. He broke up their relationship, he brings you to Oregon to take care of the dogs, and then you end up in Georgia somehow.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. Um, so my my husband's from the Caribbean, and so he couldn't, the the rain was really hard for him, and we really wanted to raise our boys because it's like a mist, it's very different from where we live in Georgia now. It's like a constant mist and like great clouds. Um, and so we really wanted to raise our boys in the country where they could like run around, because we have all boys, and anyway, we couldn't afford any property in the northwest. So I left my parents, everything, everyone I knew, and moved to Georgia, only knowing his like sister who lived in Atlanta. Anyway, so I was so anyway, again, my my identity, um anyway, my marriage, our marriage is going through a lot. We moved anyway, it was going through a lot. I had a lot of um bitterness towards my husband. Um I had, let's see, when we moved, I had like an 18-month-old and a three-year-old boy. And I was like constantly getting angry, being too like rough with them. And like when they get angry, like I was just I was an angry mom. And it made my heart so sad because I wanted my I I know that like as parents, we we we're like the first uh knowledge to our kids of who God is. And I really wanted my kids to grow up loving God or know a God that loves them, and then in return want them to love God. And I was not showing them the character of God that I longed, that I would hope. To and I was just crushed. And I would go to bed every night just feeling so guilty that I was a horrible mom. I would constantly like shame myself. Like, you're such a horrible mom. Um, like you're you're just messing your kids up. They're gonna like, you know, your kids are gonna end up being like druggies or whatever the case is because of how you're treating them. Like, anyway, my thoughts were not healthy at all. They were not based in my identity in Jesus. And um like financially, we were not doing good. And so, you know, when you have financial stress, you have kids stress, you have marriage stress, everything was just like it, it was super rough. And um, I was having health issues, and so at that time, um, my friend, um, so anyway, I I and so anyway, I share, I share all of my backstory to show how I like never did any of like those you know, taboo sins that maybe if you grew up in the church, you know you're not supposed to do. I was a like a goody two shoe, but yet I still have so much shame about myself. And I and and um was God happy with you at this point in your mind? Um, it was a lot better than it was, but not not when I sinned.
SPEAKER_02When you sinned it was cool when you hadn't sinned, but when you sinned, he was like, Come on.
Moving States And Mounting Shame
SPEAKER_06Well, well, it was better than what it was before, but it wasn't it definitely not as where it is today, standing in freedom. Um so so I so so anyway, I knew I needed to have victory over that. So finally, now I say that I was a goody to shoot, but obviously there's all these um you know, sins that we can anyway, there just there's all these like things that we can still have, like baggage, but it's just open. So anyway, so finally though, I was like, I have like an open sin that I need to have victory over because it's affecting my kids. I and so it really made me like anyway. That was when my pride started to drop and be like, okay, I need help. I'm a Christian, I know I can have victory over sin. I know I can have, you know, it says that we're free and we're uh free from sin, yeah. Free from sin over like five times in Romans six, and I'm not experiencing that. So, Lord, like what's going on? And that, and I also was having a lot of bitterness towards my husband, and I'm like, that's not right either. So that there's something that I don't understand about the gospel that I need to understand, Lord. Please help me. And so that's when um Paola sent me Eddie's testimony and his wife's testimony about their marriage, and you had just become friends with them just because of living in Georgia and running into them. Yeah. And um, we went to her church a few a Daresville church a few times.
SPEAKER_02And so anyway, what'd you think about that episode?
SPEAKER_06Oh, it was so powerful. I was like, this is the gospel. I didn't understand how Eddie could, I didn't understand um the part about where Eddie says, like, I don't have shame for what I did like the day after. And then his wife said, That's when I knew I could trust him. Because I didn't understand shame and condemnation yet. Um, that was just an area, but the fact that okay, so it I'm always so I love hearing people's testimonies of how they overcome things. And I know that men and I mean women too, lust is such a huge temptation, such a huge sin that almost every, you know, with your anyway, the statistics are just crazy.
SPEAKER_02Well, with the internet the way it is and everything in your pocket, like it's it's a it's a it's a tough one.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I mean, the devil's smart.
unknownYeah.
Wave One Teachings And Seeds Of Freedom
SPEAKER_06And so when I hear people, and so when I hear people overcoming, like, you know, um, how they're over able to overcome that, I am I love it. And I'm like, okay, like it's my okay, who's having victory? Because there's truth there. If you can overcome that and have a healed marriage, there's truth there. There's something that I need to learn. And so that kept me digging. And so I kept listening to like the wave one over and over and over again. I and and so and I would like listen to you, Richard and Justin and Jonathan. I was like, if these men can overcome lust, then for sure I can overcome my yelling and my mom rage.
SPEAKER_02And so I was like, I love that. If Richard stopped looking at porn, I don't have to have mom rage. That's amazing. I love that.
SPEAKER_06So I was like, I don't, my sin is not lust, but my sin right now that I'm dealing with is pride, bitterness, like really bad bitterness, and and needing to overcome mom anger. And so I I would just like listen to you guys and try and like, okay, what is it? How did you guys overcome it? And the people that you guys interview, like, you know, internet church. And um, and so anyway, so I I started listening. And so I I I remember something that Jonathan said. He said, never, he said, never let your thoughts, never think your of yourself anything different than what God thinks of you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so that was really huge in my mind. So after listening, and I and when I first heard, like, oh, you shouldn't shame yourself when you do it, I was like, oh, that's too good to be true. That's too easy. That's not gonna work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but how was it working, shaming yourself? That wasn't being too successful.
SPEAKER_06Well, see, I have dealt with shame. I'm a huge my my in my old self, people pleasing reigns.
SPEAKER_02You know what people pleasing is, right? I just saw something today about people pleasing, about when you make your children hug people that they don't want to hug. And I've always done that in Hispanic families. We're like, hey, say goodnight to everybody, and the kids go around. Um, but he's like that. Oh, yeah. You're pleasing them so you can feel okay. You're not pleasing them for them, you're pleasing them for you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. And so, um, so yeah, people please anyway. I didn't understand that I dealt with shame. Yeah, I didn't understand that that was what was holding me in bondage to people pleasing, to uh mom anger. I didn't understand any of that. Um, and so I started I listened to some stuff um from other other people too on shame. And anyway, so anyway, so so then God gave me this. So then I was like, okay, I'm gonna try it. I woke up that morning, I'm like, if I yell, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna repent to my child and to Jesus, and then I'm gonna thank Jesus that he has given me victory over sin and that I am free from yelling. I am free from sin. And then I'm only gonna think the thoughts that God thinks of me. And then um, so like that I'm a daughter of him, that I sit on the right hand throne in heavenly places in Jesus Christ, that I am valuable, that I am worthy, and that like God has uh created me to be these kids' mom, and I am the best mom for these kids. You know, um, and then I'm and then when I have time, I'm gonna be accountable to myself and reflect, okay, what happened, what made me get to this sugar place, and what can I do better next time? And it was amazing. My I my kids did something I yelled, but instead of like, oh, you're such a horrible mom, you're failing your kids, your kids are gonna get ruined. I said no, I apologized, and I did I did those four steps. I said, Lord, um, I thank you that I am free from sin. I thank you that you have preded the victory for me. I thank you, Lord, that you love me and that you you never leave me. Um, and anyway, and you know what? I didn't yell at all that rest of the day, and I had so much peace over myself.
SPEAKER_02Hmm. Shame was your killer. Yes. Just like the way you looked at yourself.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
Seeing Victory Stories And Dropping Pride
SPEAKER_02Wow.
Naming The Real Enemy: Shame
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And so, anyway, from that, it grew for my goal. So I was like, okay, how does God deal with me and my sin? Um, because it became, I it became such a passion of mine to be like, okay, I obviously I shared what I did about having nightmares um as a child that I wasn't gonna be saved because I wanted the exact opposite experience of my kids. And so I put a lot of thought and a lot of study into how you know how to raise my kids so that they are in a secure relationship with Jesus Christ. Obviously, if they choose to, they every every kid has a choice, but I'm gonna provide everything for that. And so I don't then I was like, okay, how can I, the how God deals with me when I sin, how can then I handle my kids the same way? Because the gospel changes us. The gospel can change adults, it can change, it can change kids. And so then I started um the like figuring out how can I um like speak, so like basically when my kids mess up, how can I speak Jesus' identity over them? Because that's what he does to me. God, God says, Camille, like when I yell, Camille, like you are my daughter. You were created to be their mom. You are a great mom. I have you have the victory over yelling. Trust me, I will show you how to get there. And so, anyway, I started, so I started applying this to my kids. And so I came up with um, anyway, it's a three-part, it's a three-part, uh, three parts to it. So like the first step is, and now I've I've grown this where I I my desire is to help other moms because I know I was in this season, I felt so alone. I was trying to, you know, figure this all out. And I and I feel like there's like the one side of Christianity that's very traditional, and then there's the other side where it's very um, I know it's just the two extremes, and and I didn't want either of those two extremes. And so I was like, Lord, just please help me. So anyway, I created like this three part three steps of how God really helped me. And so the first one is to like root your identity in Jesus. So this is like for a mom or dad who is yelling, and what's interesting is I often ask, I was just in a conversation with someone, he was like, I'm trying to overcome yelling. I like I have really bad rage with my kids. I'm like, so what do you believe about God when you sin? And he says, Well, I feel like God forsakes me. So I was like, Okay, like now we know what we need to rewire our mind with, because it, you know, the Bible verse that says, like, I will never leave you nor forsake you in Romans 8. Um, and so, so anyway, so really rooting our identity in who we are in Christ, and like making our identity like not in where we live or any of this outward stuff, or in in even not having my identity be based in that I'm a calm mom or that I'm a gentle mom, but fully have my identity rooted in who Jesus Christ is and who he says I am.
SPEAKER_01Hello.
SPEAKER_06Um and so anyway, and so then the second step is to is is rewire our mind. And so I found that, and so this is like where we, you know, we all have our triggers of what why we yell. And I realized some of mine were when mom when my husband and I would get into financial disagreements, that was like a huge trigger for me. Uh, and I knew that I would probably have a burst out during that day. Um, also when I was when I would go through hardships, like when I would go through trials, anyway, I would get really angry too. And so I anyway, so what I would do is like for the trial, for the hardships one, is I like found five Bible verses that really met my heart. Um, you know, from like James 1, where it says, like, kind of all Joe and you fall into various hardships, knowing that it will bring forth uh patience and bring you to a place where you're in need of nothing. And so anyway, I just I would write down all those Bible verses and then I would say it into my phone, record myself, and so then I could listen to it. Because as a mom, you're so busy, you don't have time, you know, to sit down. I mean, it's hard to find find time to take a shirt.
SPEAKER_01For sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_02And so that was a way that if I felt myself being triggered, if I felt myself um you you didn't ever make like a a choice, like my son has done this, and this is what I will do, I will yell. It's usually like a reaction, right? Oh yeah, oh yeah, and it's like what you're just describing is that your nervous system was so sensitive because of your anxiety and your worry. And so then I remember like I think so much of uh our nervous system's sensitivity has to do with anxiety, and I I've had ADHD symptoms a lot. I think a lot of that has to do with anxiety, and whenever just even a loud sound would happen, my body would just react and I would yell. And it wasn't, I wasn't, I don't want to yell, I'm not choosing, but because my mindset, like everything that I'm living in, is like fear-based, lack based, like we don't have enough money, we don't have this, this, this, and this. And so my body is making the choice for me, and so I I probably need to get some peace. I probably need to pray, I need to like get regulated, right?
Four-Step Practice To Stop Yelling
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and so that's a huge thing for moms. I mean, where you know you're going through postpartum, you're not getting sleep. I dealt with insomnia, like only getting a few hours of sleep, and then you're supposed to handle these like wild energetic boys. Like, you know, our nervous systems are so dysregulated. And so I learned that through vision uh very specific type of visualization, it actually have you heard of your limbic system?
SPEAKER_02Tell me what it is.
SPEAKER_06So it basically like regulates your your flight, your like stress, your flight, fight, fawn mode. Oh like fight, like if something happens, you yell, or fawn, you like you kind of become a people pleaser, or freeze, you just like don't do anything. Yeah, um, anyway, there's just different methods of how our bodies respond to stress. So your limbic system can basically be turned on. It can be basically it can turn if you have certain things happen in your life, basically you can be in the fight or flight mode your whole like your whole entire life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're yeah, so much like the cortisol is in your bloodstream all the time because you're just living like there's an imminent threat.
SPEAKER_06Yes. So even though you can be at the beach, you're still in that fight or flight mode. And so anyway, I learned how to like rewire my my mind so that because your your our thoughts have such a uh a huge um control over that. So I learned through like visual visualization and through through rewiring my mind with scripture um for certain triggers that I had, like like I would have where I would shake uncontrollably, like when certain things would happen. Um, and that's an example. So basically, um so sometimes my husband and I would have disagreement and I would get so angry that I would start shaking.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Because I anyway, my my thoughts were spiraling and I was ruminating. You know, and you know, when you have that thought and you just constantly are chewing on it over and over and over again, and it's like a negative thought.
SPEAKER_02Some people uh would call that being emotionally flooded.
SPEAKER_06Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02John Gottman, like the marriage counselor, he's like, and if you're fighting when you're emotionally flooded, you're just torching that like argument. It's not gonna work. You need to walk away. Like you're not if you're shaking, that's not the time to finish the argument. You probably need to exactly, and I didn't I didn't know that.
Parenting Through Gospel Identity
SPEAKER_06Um neither did I, so um, so anyway, I'm I'm yeah, I'm sharing, you know, just sharing all this to show where I was, yeah. Um and how God can heal like any mom, any dad from this. And so anyway, it was really anyway, it was really powerful. And and when I so I I said, Lord, I have okay, so this is so what would happen when I start shaking is I would anyway, I would try and control my husband in a certain situation. And it's it's never right to control anyone. I mean, in my opinion, I believe we need to give everyone freedom of choice. And then I'm not talking about like when someone's safety is not involved. But my anxiety would cause me to try and control my husband, and it wasn't right, and it was causing a lot of issues in our marriage. And so, one thing I did, so I had to figure out how to rewire my brain so that I would be able to control myself to not control my husband. And so what I did was is I found some Bible verses and I said, Lord, please show me what Bible verses are for my heart that will really really get there in there deep so that I can um hold on to your promises to know that I can just let things go and not try and have things in control in my hand. And so I did, and I I was I I spent time journaling. Um, if you journal with your left hand, it actually talks to your other side of your brain. So, like if you're right-handed, you're more you you you um with like your non-creative side of your brain.
SPEAKER_02And then nobody can read your journal and find out what you were saying, because no, I can't journal with my right hand and I'm right-handed. If I journal with my left hand, it really does something.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah, yeah. I know people that have been like, I mean, this isn't scientifically proven, but I know people that have had like physical healing um through like journaling with their left hand. It really, it just it opens up, it helps you release that. It it what it does is it connects your your emotional side of your brain is your right brain. And so by writing, you connect with that and it's able to open.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_06Um open things up and you're able to let things go. You know, by hand they say handwriting is so much better than typewriting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Like that's why our world is in trouble, because um typing it out doesn't put it in your brain as much as pen to the paper.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So anyway, I learned, so I was like, okay, I've got to root myself the first step, root myself in my identity in Jesus Christ. Make sure that my my identity is in him, not based on my performance, not based on my failures, not based on how my husband what my husband's doing that day, not based on what my kids, you know, and Jesus. And then the second thing was, okay, now I need to rewire my brain um with my triggers that I have through through the through God's Bible, through visual visualization. And this isn't um, I would, it's not new age at all, anyway. Because sometimes people hear visualization in me.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, you know what's I get frustrated. Meditation is biblical. Yeah. Now, if you're meditating on the Buddha, I'm against it, okay? But meditating, simply centering your consciousness on God, that's meditating.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's good. Visualizing, like setting your mind. Romans 8, set your mind. Colossians 3, set your mind on things above where your life is hidden with Christ and God. Like this is this is how we change our mind. This is how we're transformed by the renewing of our mind.
SPEAKER_06And our and science proves it. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So um, um, okay, so that's so that was the so that was the second thing that oh, and and with that was I God showed me how a few Bible verses on like I saw God showed me some sins, some sins that I was having that was weighing me down. He's like, You have to let these go. And like one of them was gossip, even though it's like, oh, I want to know what's going on so I can pray for you, or I need to know so I can pray for that person.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, can now you you mentioned it. Do you know what the real goal in either gossiping or hearing gossip is? Tell me, it's to feel important. No, because when you gossip, you have the tea. No, somebody trusted you with the tea and you have it, and then when somebody gossips to you, you're worthy enough of hearing the tea.
SPEAKER_05You just hit the center of my heart. Like, yeah, it's no, that's me.
Identity First, Then Renew The Mind
SPEAKER_02So what if you were already important so that you didn't need to get the tea? Because you're you don't need like you don't need to be important.
SPEAKER_06Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Because you are.
SPEAKER_06Exactly. My identity. I sit in the right hand throne of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_02Like let's go.
SPEAKER_06Who's more important than that?
SPEAKER_02I used to have a you Gossip. That's a thing. That will it's a desperate want to be important.
SPEAKER_06It's yeah approval.
SPEAKER_02It's it's it's that type of thing.
SPEAKER_06And I've been seeking a you know, my old self, my old in my old creation woman, yeah, seeking approval.
SPEAKER_02Old Camille wanted approval badly.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. Um, and so God showed me though that like these sins that were hold that I was holding on to um was was um you know, to fully have like the victory and and walk in well God has created me to be to be free from sin. Yeah, um, but to be able to like really be always have a calm voice, like hey, you gotta like look at these areas of your life. And so anyway, and then also so when we hold bitterness, it says in Ephesians 4, which I'm sure you're you know, that we open the door for the devil to work on our life. And so the Lord was like, You you you you really need to work on bitterness that you have towards people and unforgiveness, and so um that sets you free. Yeah, sets me free.
SPEAKER_02Like you can be bitter. Let's say your mom does something when you were 17 and you're holding on that bitterness for 20 years. Your mom doesn't know about it, she's at home chilling. You're the one that's getting wrecked. When you can release her and forgive her, then you can move in love, joy, and peace.
Triggers, Anxiety, And Nervous System
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and it's amazing the freedom from that and the happiness. Um, and so, you know, anyway, so so with rewiring, I had to really work on rewiring, um replacing because I was like, that person's a child of God, and I'm not thinking like they're a child of God right now. So Lord, please help me rewire my brain so that I see them as you see them, just because, you know, because the way we see other people ultimately, you know, can sometimes reflect of how we see ourselves. Um, it's a two-way street. And so I knew I knew that um anyway, so that so those things really helped me um to be able to be more calm, but ultimately, and then and then the third part is like the practicality. Um, and so because I I needed order in my house, so now it was huge letting go of shame, identity, um, rooting myself in God's identity of me, and then rewiring my brain so I come out of survival mode, and I have I know I'm practiced, I'm walking in Philippians for eight with my mind, like whatsoever things are true on that Bible verse. Um so then I got the like the practicality of like, okay, so when my kid like does something that's really you know makes me angry or or they do something that's wrong, or they're hitting their brothers, like, how can I handle that? And so that's when God really started showing me how to like speak life over them, speak their identity into them the same way I do to you. And so, for example, like if your child is is being mean to one another, we're so easy to say like the negative character trait that they're hey, like you're being so mean, you're being so naughty, or you are naughty, you are mean, or you are a liar, or you know, it could go on and on. But God really showed me like you have to speak life over them. The like like the Bible, I think there's over fifty, there's like around 55 Bible verses that talk about the power of the tongue in the Bible. And and like our words are gonna echo throughout our kids' lives, the rest of their life. And so, like it's it's such it's so powerful what we can do with our tongue and how we can speak life over them. And so instead of saying you're so mean, say, hey, God has created you to be a kind boy. How can you be kind in this situation?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06Like, hey, you are so for for example, one day I was putting my baby, so now I have three babies, I mean three kids. Anyway, I was putting my third baby down for nap, and I heard some commotion going on and crying, and so when I come out, I'm like, hey, what happened? And my son is like, Oh, I I didn't do anything. I'm like, honey, you are a truth speaker. Please speak the truth to me. He was like, Okay, well, I smashed my think my brother's finger in the door. And so when you speak truth over them, it's a lot more likely that they're gonna live that out. And so it takes a whole like, so basically I had to like, you know, put all these phrases, put all these things up on my wall, you know, it's it's it it like you I I I put effort into it. I was like, I'm determined to speak life over my kids. I'm determined, you know. One thing that really bothers me when people hear the gospel and like it stops with them, but it's like I was like, the gospel is to affect how we parent our kids, how we treat our wife and our husband. And I was like, I really want to know how to parent in a gospel way. And so anyway, so I started really changing of like, how can I when my kids mess up, how can I speak God's identity over them? And but I forgot to share one thing that really helped me stop, that also helped me stop yelling, is like I read I just memorized this one sentence, and I and it was basically to always just say what you see happening. So just be a mirror, just describe it. And so I trained my mind instead of getting angry and yelling to just just say what you see happening. Do not judge, do not accuse, just say what say what you see. So and I put that on my wall.
SPEAKER_02You put say what you see.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, just just say what describe what you see. That that's what it was.
SPEAKER_02Huh, interesting.
SPEAKER_06But my brain could always go to that because when you're in when you're like really angry, you need something. And so, and that that helped me so much. I would just say, just no, you just hit your brother. And that was just enough to like they would stop what they were doing, and I had time to cool down, and then I could go, I created a script for myself. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02I was just gonna say, I think that anger is a good the problem is hidden anger. When we know we're angry, it's probably because there's something that is a threat or something that we care deeply about. Like if one kid punches the other kid, if we care deeply about treating each other the way we want to, well then we can like there's an anger that comes like like this is unfair, that's uncool. And that's the problem is when there's hidden anger, we're angry and we don't know it, and then there's or there's reaction, or there's little passive aggressiveness or blaming. And that's when we're angry and we don't know like we're actually threatened right now. And so sometimes like the Bible doesn't say not to get angry, it says to not get angry and sin. And so I can experience anger over something and I don't have to sin because there's something that like I care deeply about, like I care deeply about injustice. So if my son has done something to my daughter and that he he doesn't like that she does it to him, like I see the injustice there, I can be frustrated with that, and yet I can actually be a a father that moves in wisdom rather than just react.
Visualization, Scripture, And Rewiring
SPEAKER_06And that's and that's a a really great point. I'm so glad you brought that out. Um that we the Bible says be angry, but sin not. So it's like we can be we can be angry, definitely, but it's like what you just said like are are we react how are we reacting? Versus can we go in wisdom? And so the Bible verse that God um gave me in it is the Ephesians 4. And uh let me find it real. Okay, verse 29. It says, Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. Or it says in the ESV version, let it that may your words build each other up. And so I became really determined of like, okay, this is how I need to parent. I need to make sure my words are always building my kids up and that I leave them with grace. Um, and so um, yeah, anger, anger is good actually, because it shows you that something is happening that needs to change. Um, but it's just what we do with that anger is you know where we need to have accountability and and be renewed with.
SPEAKER_02It's like a notification. It doesn't need to drive our lives, but it's it's showing us, oh, something's going on here and that's valuable.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So what I see a lot with like moms is they're like, I have so much anger. It's like, well, yeah, your kids are, of course, you should be angry. What your kids did wasn't right. Um, but yet we need to be able to handle that anger wisely and react in wisdom. And so then what God led me down a path of really focusing on how to like train my kids. Um, and I know it doesn't really that word train doesn't sound like it's not um maybe a sometimes that word can have a bad feeling to it. Why? Because if they feel like animals or something, yeah, or it's just I don't know, it's kind of old, like the new.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, train up a child.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but the Bible says train up a child and the way they should go. And um, so basically, like if you want your kid to obey you, practice have like so. I would create games. I so I really focused heavily on training my kids in um and how they should act. It's because if you put more effort on the front end, then you're gonna deal less on the on the back end. And so, so anyway, I training my kids and I taught my kids about how like if I if I give if I have to give you a no answer, then how do you then this is how you respond to a no answer. You say, okay, mommy, and then you drop the subject. And then if you want to uh just you're more than happy to disagree with me, but you need to disagree um respectfully. Um, you know, so anyway, I just really focused on like teaching my kids and having accountability with them. Anyway, so I God just showed me a lot of what to do on the practical side of that. Um and and I so we we talked about how like we we're not supposed to argue when we're like in that fight or flight mode. And so that I learned it's the same thing with kids. If your kids is having a meltdown, that's not the time to try and talk with them because like they're in their back part of their brain where they can't they can't be logical.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so, and that is when I would, you know, I would try and talk to them and they would be yelling at me. So then I would start yelling at them.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, not great.
Control, Forgiveness, And Letting Go
SPEAKER_06And so anyway, God just showed me, hey, like, like he would show me how to, so anyway, like what I would do is is I would say, hey, you can talk, I want to talk to you, but when you're ready to be talk calmly and respectfully to me, then you then you can talk with me. And so then we would go through and talk about it. And um, anyway, I also so then I I developed, I really, you know, another command that God gives parents isn't is how we should teach the word of God to them, like when they wake up, when they go to bed, when they lie down, when we're walking with them. And so I was like, I really want my kids to understand like why the why behind things, and not because of what mommy thinks, but because of what God thinks. Um, and so anyway, I created like this chart that I have in the back of my Bible and it talks, and the chart is about like basically the positive character trait that I want to teach my kids. So basically, if my kid is being discontent, like like one time I bought a jacket for my child and he hated it. I felt bad, but I'm like, I don't have the money, I can't return this. Uh anyway, so I was like, I'm I'm sorry, I I wish I would have gotten another one, but I can't return it and I can't, I don't have money to buy you a new one. And so I was like, okay, this is my opportunity to teach my child contentness. And so, like, in so then I so I looked at my chart and it was like 1 Timothy 6, 6. Okay, it says, um, with gobbliness and contentment, and contentness is great gain. I was like, okay, so honey, like God wants you to have great gains. That means to be successful, to have happiness. Um, and so part of that is learning to be content, even when we don't like what we have. Um, so instead of like, because I was so I grew up with so much shame, I was like, how do I parent without shaming my kid? Um, and so anyway, I just learned to always focus on the positive character trait that I want my kids to have and show them the Bible verse that goes along with it. And and then, and also I do also have like the opposite character trait because sometimes like kids need to know like the curse, like the Bible calls it a curse. That's kind of like a strong word in our language, but the Bible says, like, this is the curse that's gonna come if we follow in the other direction. Um, and I know like these are seeds being planted in their life right now, and I trust that God is gonna grow them in at the time that they need the most. And um, but I I I always say these few phrases to my kids. I'm I'm because I'm like, I have to know, are they fear, do they fear like they're not gonna be saved? So I ask them these questions to know if they know the gospel or not. And I say, I'm like, honey, I say, Ezekiel, is there anything you can do to make God love you more? No. Is there anything you can make God to love you less? No. And then I'm like, when did God first think about you? Um, and he's like, before he created the world, because in Ephesians 1 and some other places it says that. And then um, anyway, there's one other question. Anyway, I asked him a few questions because I'm just like, I want my kids to know the gospel that um that God, that they are free from sin, that God loves them. There's nothing they can do to make God love them more or make them god love or make God love them less. Um, like how I'm always like, how are you saved? And you have you have kids, how old are your kids?
SPEAKER_02Uh I have a 13-year-old and a nine-year-old. It's about to turn 10.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so you have older kids. Okay. So my I have anyway, so you know, little kids the other day, my my my five-year-old was like, So, mommy, if I obey you like all the time, will I go to heaven really soon?
SPEAKER_02You're like, nah. There's nothing to do with that, bro.
SPEAKER_06I know. I mean, part of you, this is my child that that has a really hard time, like, anyway, you know, you tell them to do something.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_06So part of me was like, Oh yeah, but like, nope, that is not the gospel. So I said, honey, what does it mean? What do you have to do to be saved? And he was like, just believe. I'm like, yes, you just you believe. And um, and it was funny because that Bible, the Bible verse we were working on that week uh was from John, I believe it's 1423, or it could be John 23, 14. Anyway, where it says, Those who love me will keep my commands. And so I was a butt like when you when you love the person, because you because you have experienced their love, the natural the natural result is that you want to do what they love and love, you know, love the things they love. So um, anyway, so that's kind of like now my mission is I want to help moms know that they're free from yelling and that they can walk, they can teach their kids.
SPEAKER_02Um how do you help moms do this? Like, besides like how does someone reach you or is able to get help from you?
Gossip, Approval, And True Worth
SPEAKER_06And I'm on Instagram and Facebook at Camille Leach or Camille A. Leech. Um, and then I have a YouTube, but it hasn't, it needs to be resurrected. But I'm planning on posting things there too.
SPEAKER_02And this is what you talk about, mom rage.
SPEAKER_06Yes, yes, and and former mom rager. Yes, yeah, how to have victory over yelling through like the three steps through rooting your identity in Jesus Christ's love for you by rewiring your mind with but with the Bible and God's thoughts of you, and then how to respond calmly with practical tips.
SPEAKER_02I love that so much. Uh let me ask you this as we're wrapping this up. If you could go back to let's say, I don't know, your car just burned down, like I don't know, some some point where you were you were feeling depressed and the kids were, you had two kids and they're screaming, and you could go put your arm around this lady and speak truth over her, what do you think you would just start off with?
SPEAKER_06Um I would reassure her of her identity in Jesus, that your value and your worth is not based on your finances, on your the situation you're in. Um like just soak in God's love for you and know that when you make make mistakes and you mess up, that God's thoughts don't change towards you, and so therefore your value and does not change. I I remember making mistakes and just wanting to like soak into the floor and be invisible because like the shame was so was so hot.
SPEAKER_02And now when you make a mistake, you get up.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I'm able to get up easily. Um, you know, like okay, that's what I did. Lord, thank you for forgiving me. Like it says that God's oh that's the other question I asked my kids is when did God forgive you? Oh, from before the foundation of the world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I love it. Well, thank you so much, Camille. I know that you're a blessing to the people that are working with you. You're you're you bless me. I'm gonna describe it. What was it? What's the sentence? Describe what's happening, or describe what you see. Describe what you see. That's gonna be helpful. No, but um, we see your good works and we're glorifying our Father in heaven. Uh, you're a testimony. And uh one more time, so if people want to get a hold of you, or they want your information, Camille, is it just Camille L E E E C H?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so C A M. Oh yeah, C-A-M-I-L-L-E. Then my last name is L-E-A-C-H. Camille Leech.
SPEAKER_02And I'll put it in the show notes so that people can get a hold of you. So thank you so much for coming on. Uh appreciate you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's such a privilege. I thank you for your work and thank you so much for having me on.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.