#258 Huy pt 2: The Real Suffering

We sit down with Huy to name the difference between fake suffering that spirals inward and real suffering that comes with living on mission after Jesus sets us free. We talk peace, the true diagnosis of sin, and the practices that keep us from growing weary when we go back into the “building” to help others find the way out.
• fake suffering as constant self-focus and mental striving
• peace found in the Church as the body of Christ
• why sin is the root problem, not preferences
• altars of prosperity, pleasure, and power versus God’s free gift
• why the Western church often resists radical freedom
• maturity as Spirit-led decisions that grow into endurance
• “If you’re not on mission, you are the mission”
• time horizons, death, and the urgency to love people well
• daily prayer questions for clear next steps
• testimony, trust, and learning to go slower
• how forgiveness breaks weariness and keeps rhythm
Start sweating. There's not enough of us in the field. If you can't get past your first one, you won't ever go into the field. It's okay. Just do it. Stop sitting on the bench.

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Transcript

Welcome Back And Why Stories Matter

SPEAKER_02 1:44

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life. Yo, welcome to the Death to Life Podcast. I'm your host, Richard Young, and today's guest uh is in the running for one of my favorite human beings. He's he's definitely in the top. I don't even know what to put the number on. Um my brother, who uh he and I experienced COVID together. We recorded a podcast. It was probably one of the first 15 episodes, and uh it's one of my favorites. And it's been a long time, it's been like five years. I've recorded a couple with BB, but we're bringing Hui back. I think I actually re-uploaded your original episode once, like halfway, like two years ago, because I was like, uh, somebody needs to hear this thing again. Um, but Whee man, what's up, dude? How are you feeling? Um, it's been some years. What year was it that we recorded this thing? It was 2020, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, I think so. I think I was in Hawaii. I was in Hawaii visiting uh our mutual friend Tyler, and I was in his bedroom. So that was probably 2020.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, yeah, six years ago, dude.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, that was a long time.

Fake Suffering And Self-Focus

SPEAKER_02 3:24

And in that episode, in that episode, we covered a lot because we covered uh this crazy story of you receiving the gospel, you standing in front of your window, and then just like all of these bold moves that you made after grabbing this thing. But I'm imagining that in the last six years, just as much stuff has happened. Uh am I right? Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I feel like there's like two things that happen when you get on the other side of this. Like, one is you realize all of the things that you thought were important in the old life are like utterly unimportant, and all the suffering that you suffered for all of the things that were unimportant stop happening, and then like the real suffering begins, and like the real suffering being like for the sake of righteousness, for the sake of the kingdom, for the sake of the people, and it's like it is relentless, it is um it and yet like there's a there's like stillness like I've been I've been equating that verse uh be still and know that I'm God, with like I've been thinking about it from like this lens of like physics, right? Where it's like because I like what he's you know what he's he's calling us to is to stop striving. I I like I get that, but like the idea of like stillness, the idea of like everything actually pausing to take a breath, the idea of like of like peace, right? I I think the first time I experienced like real peace, it was my first experience with the actual church. So the difference between that it became it's become very distinct over the last few years, but like the difference between a church and the church. And the church is a cosmic, the cosmic body of Christ that spans all of human history. Um and there is a foundational agreement within the church that might not exist in a church. There also may be the church may be inside of a church, but that's not necessarily always the case. Um, but experiencing the church for the first time was my first experience with like true stillness or like like peace amongst people, right? Not just in myself. Like I had that with the Lord, but like amongst people because there wasn't anything to be gained or lost, like there wasn't like offense, like like walking on eggshells, pretenses, any of those things, they were all out of the window because there was a foundational agreement that of what reality was, and so you could just be. And um, I think that I that experience relative to the experience of being on the other side of the gospel and like pursuing the advancement of the kingdom of heaven and the the suffering that comes with it, like the that and then the stillness with God, like the stillness with the body, the peace with body, and the stillness with God are like these mega reprieves uh in light of the fight, the labor, and like I think there's a distinction. There's like the labor, and then there's like the like fight that we all have to face as we you know as we live this thing out.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

So yeah, it's been good.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

What is the fake suffering? What was the thing that you realized? Oh, I thought this was suffering, but this isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Uh it's just when you're constantly thinking about yourself. Like when you're when you cannot help but to think about yours if the lens in which you view every single engagement interaction in your life filters back to you and how it affects you and what what it's in it for you, what you lose, what you gain, like all of that, all of that, it's in your head. Like, so I was just in my head thinking about myself all the time. And whether it was how I'm better than the next guy, or whether it was how I'm worse than the next guy, whether it was how this situation was unfair, whether it was how this person should have been better, whether it was how I am better, whether it was how this is, whether it was like how this situation is awesome, it's all filtered to me. And so even if things are going well, if like everything points inward, like and everything like nothing is good enough, like and nothing can be done for its own sake because you're never actually really present, right? Like you're never actually there.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Isn't this idea it's it's not only in Christianity? I think uh were you Buddhist at all before being a Christian?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I was raised Catholic, and then uh I was raised Catholic. I have like my mom's side of the family is Buddhist, but I don't really know much about it.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Uh I don't know a ton about it, but I know that there's these like there's these three truths that all of life is suffering. Number one, yeah, then number two, suffering is preferences, and so to get rid of suffering, you get rid of your preferences. I don't think that like Buddha has a copyright on that if he actually whoever was the guy who came up with that, but that's kind of what you're describing is because of your preferences, you were living in suffering, but it was all it was all mental, it was a mental game. You wanted this to happen and it didn't work out, and so you like, and I think so much of that life is figments of our imagination. While it's real to us, it's like, man, I want I I have a buddy who wanted a new house, he got the new house, he thought the new house was gonna solve all of his problems. But guess what? When you get a house, there comes a whole lot of problems with the house, and it didn't solve any problems. Uh, we had the same thing when we moved to Tennessee. Like, like your circumstances, you think that's the stuff that's keeping you from being being at peace. Oh, if I had these different circumstances, but that's the fake suffering that you're talking about. That's not the real suffering.

Sin As The Real Diagnosis

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah, no, uh uh like so like two points to that, right? Like one is I think I could have easily been converted to Buddhism if somebody came along and lucidly labeled my problem and then associated it to this religious and philosophical teaching, right? Right. Where it's like, oh, like they get it. Maybe they have a way out, right? Yeah, because it is, it's properly labeled. It's like it's it's just a good solid diagnosis, not a good solution, but a good solid diagnosis. From what I understand about what my grandma practiced was the hope that like she could shed, right? So she could shed all of her preferences and then in that in like a death and rebirth cycle, like eventually attain oneness with whatever, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah, that's what yoga is. It's like you're merging with whatever, the universe, or something like that.

Altars And The Hole In The Wall

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Um, uh, I think the second point is um that the thing, the stuff that so like psychology has a way of addressing this kind of, you know, like the idea of a locus of control being inside or outside of you, right? So everything happens to you or everything happens because of you, happens through you or to you, right? Like, so even that isn't enough. Like, because you know, it's also really easy to go down the road to try to figure out how to make this all better. And I have my the look, my locus of control was all the way inside of me. Uh, stuff was not happening to me. I was happening to stuff, and so it didn't actually make stuff better. Like, it didn't actually solve the problem because I didn't actually have a true proper diagnosis of the problem relative to me, right? So, like you said uh everybody suffers, you gotta get rid of your preferences, right? It was like that's not actually the problem. Like, that problem is kind of a macro diagnosis that any that can be applied to anything. Like it's not actually the contextual problem that happened to me because what happened to me was sin in its most properly defined way. It happened to me, it came to me, it was it was something that was put on me. Like I carried it, and then when I carried it, it like affects everything. Like you see, like you don't know that you have it. You don't like you don't know you're underwater until you're you if you're a fish, you have no idea, right? Like that this is water. That's not I didn't understand how steeped I was in it, like until somebody was like, and let me pull you out of the water. And one, you're not a fish, you're a human. Like it did that that never happened. I was all like, so I was being offered solutions while I was in the water thinking I was a fish, wondering why I was struggling. Like, didn't happen. So on the other side of it, I think that the real suffering is real suffering is relative to the condition of the world when you are no longer faced with that condition, is because it's really hard. Like we talk about this a lot, right? Like um me and my homeboy, uh Addison, who you know very well as well. It's my boy. Um love him. We we talk about this idea of altars, the idea of an altar of prosperity, an altar of pleasure, and an altar of power functioning in the world, and then like the altar of God, which gives you all three. And when at an altar, you go and you trade something of value in exchange for something of value, right? So at the you know, an altar, like you you trade grain, you trade like, you know, like in like in the Canaanites traded people for rain, right? Like you would kill people, people would be sacrificed for in exchange for water, like stuff like that. And so, like this idea of an altar, the altars in the world are where you expense yourself or people in exchange for the things that you think you need. Like prosperity, pleasure, power, those are the basic kind of catch-all like buckets for stuff that you think you need. And um on the other side, God just gives them all to you freely, and all you have to do is give up all the stuff you don't you weren't supposed to be carrying around to trade with, anyways. Like, and I remember my wife had a dream, she had this crazy dream. She she gets like visions from the Lord all the time. She had this crazy dream about being in this building that was like pitch black and it was horrific. And there's three stories, and on the top story, she was like she was hearing this horrific stuff all around her. And on the top story, there was a demon with this big large mask, and people were going up to it and like trading like their body parts, trading their family, trading anything of actual true worth and value to this thing in exchange for power. And I when she told me that, I was like, oh, like this is what Jesus did is he punched a hole into the side of the building and was like, There's an entire world out here, and you guys can just leave on account of me. Like, so here's a passport, here's a stamp for you to get out so that you can be a citizen outside of this horrific building that you've been stuck in since the moment you were born. You can just leave. Here's where the suffering comes. Is you exit and you're like, wow, that's what air smells like? Oh my gosh, that's what life is. Like, this is incredible. It's a vast, limitless land. And the the I am free to do and to love and to be exactly everything that I was designed to be and meant to be. And yet, there's still people in the building. And so there's this big, wide open hole in the building, and the Lord is like, okay, now that you know what it's like out here, I need you to go back in and I need you to get people out, and that's where the suffering happens. Is like the entering back into the space to root around and find people and be like, look, there's a big wide open hole. We can leave, you can leave. Like, you can head out, and everything will be different. Like, heaven right there. Like, and and it will be like it's your experience with it. Like, you're gonna have to come back in, yeah, like and get other people out. But that's I think that like rub of suffering. Is like we actually have experienced heaven on earth amongst each other, and that is the deepest longing of our souls is heaven, and yet we have mission, and we're still in the building, and there is work to be done.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

I guess I'm uh I'm a goober. I always just think of Neo taking the red pill. He takes the red pill, and uh he can't see, he can't unsee what he sees now. Yeah, you know. Now, with with the analogy falls apart because he goes in like the real world is is actually trash and is being ran by machines, and the fake world looks like it's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yep.

Why Religion Resists Free Grace

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Um, and in this sense, the suffering, man. What you're describing, I I remember early on, we were so filled with like real joy, real joy, like, and all of us, it was such a blessing to see other people who get it, and we're like, man, this is crazy. Like, we don't have to live like we used to live, we don't have like all these things, and then we would go and tell people, and a few people would be like, Oh, mercy, I get it. But most people would be really frustrated because the paradigm, my paradigm, my background is in Seventh-day Adventism. And in Seventh-day Adventism, it's not just given to you, like there has to be some, it seems like there has to be some work for it. And so when there's there, there was this pushback, we're like, that sounds too easy, and we're like, no, look, this actually says it. It says that he did it, and people were really frustrated. And I was naive, bro. I don't know if you were, I was like, people are gonna love this because this is life-changing. Jesus has brought you from here and he's put you over here, and he's given you grace, which means that you can actually live in this way, and now he's just telling you change the way you think about all this stuff, because that's how you're gonna be able to walk this out, is you gotta think about it in the new way. And I was like, Yeah, I can do that. That's actually, you know, that's there's some difficulty there because if you've been trained in the old way, but I was a little naive. I don't know if you were.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Uh yes and no. Um, so in like I didn't grow up in a church context like that, right? Like I grew up in Catholicism, and like my Catholicism was me in the back row trying not to fall asleep, like, and then leaving at some point because I was like, this is dumb. Um but I think that like here's the thing it's it's okay, it's difficult in two different lanes. So like our ministry very, very early on was in the secular space, and we were in like we we we ministered to people that did not believe, and we made converts of them. Like, I have so many stories of like I like I'm like we were the ones that were bringing people to church. Like when we were going to church and we were regularly attending a church, like nobody knew ever came except for the people that we brought. Like, there was never new faces, it was always the same old faces. It was just us out in the field bringing new faces in the field, bro. The rub is not there, the pushback is not there. Good news is just as it is. Good news. That's it. They might have questions, but like here's the thing real suffering, right? Not I'm not like like like like a man who is who is has been abused and is now moving from that abuse, and you you come to him and you say, You can be free of this, John. You've been medicating for your whole life, and now you're addicted to all these things that are destroying your body, but that is not actually who you are. He is gonna he perked up. I'm talking about a real dude. I'm talking about a six foot three, massive Aryan Brotherhood dude that is an just got out of jail, that is addicted to meth. That the Lord was like, You're gonna go and talk to this dude, you're gonna give him a Bible and you're gonna pray for him. Like, and I was like, he might eat me. Like, like, but that man and I formed a relationship that existed for three years. He passed, but like it existed for three years, and I just gave him the gospel. It's like he didn't immediately get over his addictions because those are physical, right? But his mind changed about himself. Like, the rub is not nearly you might deal with an it the this is why the enemy has worked so hard to make the Christian to platform the Christian who is not a Christian, to platform the Christian who is not about the way, but says it in word, but not in deed. Like we see it all the time. Like I see it all the time. And then it creates a barrier for people that are observing these people when they actually meet a brother that's sweating in the field or a sister that's sweating in the field, and that that sister or brother has good news for them, it makes it harder for them to receive it. But that barrier is weak compared to what is in the church, which is I've always done this this way, I've always thought about it this way, this is how I do things, this is what I know. These are the stakes. Like you get to the high-level theology people, the pastors, the people that are invested in careers in this thing, and you present to them a radically different way of reading the text as it says, you are free from sin. Revelation one. Jesus set you free from sin. You're like, sounds pretty literal, right? Like, I think if I was five, I'd just read it as is. But if I'm 55 and I pull$85,000 a year from a church that's propped up specifically in this lens, in this particular framework, right? And that framework is directly challenged by this just the sentence. Like, I have a lot to lose. You're gonna deal with a lot more freedom. I think within the Western church than you are just ministering to secular people in the field. Like, because those people, all they know is the suffering that they're experiencing right now. Like, that's all they're thinking about. And they're looking for solutions. They go to Soul Cycle, if you're middle class, right? They go to Soho House because they're lonely. If you're middle class, right? If you're lower class, you know all the stuff that's being peddled and sold. Right. If you're high, like if you have like just based on your income, you now have you have unlocked more potential solutions to your symptoms, not the root cause. It doesn't actually get rid of everything, right? You look at the proliferation of pornography. You look at those are all micro-dosing transformation that doesn't last. It doesn't actually last. So you have to come back. And then a marketplace evolves. And now you're trading your time in exchange for a solution that doesn't actually really work. And then you get Jesus who comes along and is like, hey, I'll just give it to you for free. This is the greatest offer that's ever existed in the history of humanity. You can be free from sin. Like, I am king. That's good news. Here are the benefits. You can be free from sin, you can be healed from the sin that was committed to you, and you can become new, which was actually what you were meant to be. How much does it cost? Nothing. Except for all the stuff that you've been carrying around that you haven't been meant to that you weren't meant to carry around. Just follow me. That's it. Like, you don't have to give up anything except for the stuff that you don't want to carry, anyways. Like sweet. That's good freaking news to the ear that has not already been tuned to okay news or bad news. Like and they're fixated on that.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

So as we're doing this, and you know, the ministry the field is um out in the you know, out in the mall at Walmart, at your gym. And sometimes like it's beautiful, like it's so refreshing, and like when you see like something clicking, you're like, yes. Um, and then there's also ministry with people who have been steeped in religious dogma that hasn't given them life. Um we're here to do both, huh?

If You Are Not On Mission

SPEAKER_01 26:33

I think that it depends on the season, right? So like we experience maturity in our ability, in our the skill of endurance being nurtured in us, like that is the mature Christian, is like it's it's because like you get when like it's different, like when you okay, like so the minute you form a relationship with the Holy Spirit and you're just starting to act, like you become like an incessant child, you ask about everything. Like, I'm literally asking God who I should hire. Like that's a weird practice, right? But I have 25 people in a hiring pipeline, and I'm like, I don't have time to like weed through all of this stuff and actually get discernment. Like, I have to, it would, it's gonna take me weeks. I don't have weeks, right? So I'm just literally like, God, like Holy Spirit, is it a yes or a no? And it's so clear, he gives me the reasoning for it. So, like, I think that maturity in its earliest stages is accessing the spirit because now you have the skill of choice, like the skill of sound choice making, right? Like, you're like constantly leaning on the spirit for good decision making. And you you start to kind of realize, oh, I have to make thousands of decisions that I've been leaning on my own wisdom for like for decades, and my wisdom is trash because I was it was built on a foundation of being sinned upon and sinning upon others. Like, it's probably not a good move to be discerning from that position. And you actually learn, like you actually learn about what it means to be a part of the kingdom when you lean on him to make decisions early on, because most of the time you're really uncomfortable with what he tells you. Like, it's stuff that's talk to this giant six foot five Aryan nation looking dude, like with swastika tattoos, who looks really sad, and you're gonna be late for a meeting. Like, okay, like that's that's not it's abnormal, right? But then when you start to walk in it and it starts to permeate your life, and you just kind of start living this way, you you stop thinking about how to live and you just start living it, then it just becomes about endurance and like the skill of endurance of actually forgiving the 70th time for the same thing, that's a radically different place, right? Yeah, and I I think that it's it's different, like the the two lanes are different, and I think there's a season where wherever whatever season you're you're you're in, right? Like so we went from a season of like being in the field with non-believers to like being in classrooms with believers that didn't believe the gospel, and it's different. Like, and I think that the thing that we've learned as we're transitioning again, me and when I say we, I mean me and my wife, is that uh do not grow weary of doing good. Like don't do don't don't allow yourself to grow weary because weariness is weariness is being out of a rhythm, out of like out of rhythm with God because it the temptation the temptation to turn inward or to like return to the old ways or to like allow for uh unforgiveness to last for a day too long, or to not see the way that God sees because being because wherever season you're in, it's more difficult than it was early on, is um yeah, I think that's like the easiest way to like summarize, like when you say, oh, like going from being out in the like like in the field, right? Like and thinking through like what it means to go from season to season, like I would say that like the difficulty doesn't let up, it increases, and our ability to endure is only relative to our willingness to like our willingness to like actually practice the things that are probably the most difficult on the list, but the things that he has described as making us perfect, which is to forgive your enemies and to pray for them. Like to forgive people that like what is an enemy? Somebody that is not for you but is against you, somebody that wants to do things at for their benefit at your expense, right? Like our our willingness to submit with joy and thanksgiving to that call to pray for your enemies, to forgive them and to pray for them is like yeah, it is it is the counter to growing weary of doing good. Like, and it's really easy to grow weary in this.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

You you said something to me the other day when we were on a phone conversation. You said, if you're not on mission, you are the mission. Explain like that mindset. What and what do you mean by that?

Death, Time, And What Jesus Offers

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Uh if I gave you a million dollars, how quick would you be to and I said, hey Rich, like just gave you a bag, right? A stack, and I was like, hey Rich, I got 5,000 more of these stacks. Anybody that you send my way is theirs. How quick would you be to go out and be like, hey, Jonathan, who is giving away a million dollars stack? Like, you would go to every single person that you loved and you would be like, yo, you need to go see this dude. Like, he's got a million dollars for you. All right. So if you're not on a mission, you are the mission. Jonathan comes and receives a bag from me, and then I say, hey man, same thing. I still got 5,000 of these bags. Like, you don't need any more. You're good. Like, can you go and let people know? Let your loved ones know I got a bag for them. He would go. He would be on mission. Like, and then anybody that hasn't received the bag yet is the mission. It's that clear. Like, if you wanted, if you were a musician, and it's literally this is all about relationship. If you were the if you if you were a musician, if you were a rapper, right? And this is let's just say before Kanye went off the deep end, like, because chance has actually testified to this. He was like, I met Kanye, now I can't fail, right? Like, like, I like ultra-life beam. Yeah, ultralight beam, right? Like, so if you are a rapper and you're good, like, like, who do you need to know to be the rapper that you want to be? Well, ideally, probably be somebody like Kanye. So if you met Kanye, like, and he was like, hey, like, I like now that you know me, like you can actually, you have now all the doors are now open, right? Like every door is now open. Like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna be like, hey, bro, if you re if you're rapping too, you really need to meet Kanye. Because Kanye, if you meet Kanye, all doors are open. Now, that analogy falls apart because Kanye is gonna select who he wants, right? Sure. Like he's gonna select who he wants, but it's the same basic premise. It's like it's it's about who you know. And so when it comes to Jesus, the the the number one game of the enemy is to create obstacles, which are external, or objections which are internal, to actually knowing him. Actually knowing him. It's all there, right? The book has now been is the number one printed book in history. Like, there's more freaking books testifying of Jesus than everything else, yeah. But so then how do you work the game so that you can get it so people don't get it? You create obstacles that are external. Look at all these Christians. I don't want to be like them. Like, these people are out here condemning people, they're out here hating people, they're out here creating all these problems. Like, I'm good, right? Or internal, how can it be so easy? There's no way I'm wretched, I'm still secretly doing XYZ. I'm still secret, like I'm bad. Like, how can it be that it says I'm good if I believe him? Right? So now the game is just to increase the volume of external obstacles or internal objections to just knowing Jesus. And they're all out there and they're all housed in people. Like people are walking around holding this information, like holding the obstacles up, holding the objections up. Like it's all propped up that way, but it's not complicated, and it's also there's no actual, there's no real barriers and no real objections to him. Like, there's nothing that's keeping you from knowing him. And what's the what's the like so if I'm offering a bag and Kanye is offering a career, what's Jesus offering?

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Life.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Life. Like life. He came and solved the problem that nobody actually thinks about in modernity, especially. Nobody thinks about it until they can't stop thinking about it, which is death. Like, nobody thinks about death. I have a I have a ticker, I have 37 years left.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

On this side.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

On this side. I have 37 years left on average. If I take care of my body, I might get a little bit more. If I eat too many potato chips, I might get a little bit less. But I have 30 37 years left to do this thing, to actually be on mission. So am I going to like, that's like my heuristic for like, am I gonna actually waste time today? Right? Like, there's nothing keeping us from him.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

And he gives us that encourages you that 37. Like, does that does that condemn at all, or is that just like, let's go, let's do it?

Daily Prayer Questions For Direction

Testimony, Trust, And Going Slower

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Um, I think what it does is it centers, it grounds me in reality. Like the problem still exists for the body. It doesn't exist for the the soul, right? My body still suffers the problem of death because sin is still here. Like it hasn't been complete, like it's it's power, it's penalty, it's prison gone. Like it's done, right? The hole has been punched in the building. But like the building is gonna be wiped away from existence, right? And my body is a part of this building, it's a part of this like reality. So this is my body is gonna become dust. So I have in like so like the like my time horizon, like the way that time is compressed for me now, like I don't think about I don't think about like the like basically my brain is like you have time. Like, but I also know that like that time is not my own. So if I have 37 years left, that none of that time is my own. In the old way, all of that time was my own. And this is why it's so easy to rem to not think about the fact that I'm gonna die. Like, and so my mission was mine, my purpose was self-created, right? Like, like everything was my own, or it was sold to me and I bought it. Because I bought it, it was mine, right? I'm gonna become this type of entrepreneur, I'm gonna become a successful DJ. I'm gonna like blah, blah, blah. Like I bought the idea, so it's mine. But my time is not my own, just like my body is not my own, just like my brain is not my own. Like, none of it is mine. And so if it's been paid for at a cost, then what am I supposed to do with this time? Like, and if what am I supposed to do with this time is as simple. This is what's so dope. Like, uh uh, this was actually also a conversation between me and Addison. He was like, he was like, Look, I started asking the Lord these really specific questions every day, and then I like padded out his question asking. So he started asking God in prayer at the beginning of the day. He was like, What do you want me to know today? All right, why does it matter that I know this today? All right, what do I do next? That's all he asked God in the morning, right? And I started doing that too, and the answers have been so freaking hilariously specific and have like nothing to do with what I thought I was gonna do with my day. So, like sometimes it's like, call Richard. It's like, what do I need to why? Why? Why does that matter? It's like, you haven't called Richard in a while. It's like, oh, okay. Uh, do I do it now? He's like, Yeah, do that right now. And then Rich will get a call from me at like 9.23 in the morning when I got to my prayer. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and so here's here's the the short of it, right? Is like that practice has led to it, has led to like the this this overly simplified version of it is like, what must I do today to be successful? Like, what must I do today to be successful? And the answer is call Richard. Like, right now, call Tyler right now. Uh call Joshua right now. Go down to this cafe and wait, and somebody's gonna come your way. Like, it's like time, right? So this limited time doesn't stress me out, but it makes it very real when you're on mission in the day. Like it makes everything really real when you're on mission in the day because that conversation with Richard, because God prompted it, led to this conversation right now because I became top of mind for Richard. And then Richard has all of you beautiful, wonderful people listening to him. And maybe in all of my ranting and all of this back and forth, there's a word that either reminds you of who you are or informs you of who you are, and then sh, and then maybe in all of my ranting and all of my rumbling, also clarifies what you are to do with that. And if that is all that happens from this, if one person emerges from this conversation because God prompted me to call Richard, and then now we're on a podcast together, and everybody is listening to us talk, is that God loves you, God is for you, he's not against you, you are forgiven, you have been set free from the sin that you have committed, you have been healed from the sin that was committed upon you. When you said, I'm gonna put the old person to death in Christ, that person is dead, which means there can be no harm to a dead person. It's dead. You are brand new and you are alive and you are whole and fully reformed. And if anything of the enemy has compartmentalized your soul in Jesus' name, right now, my words are breaking those compartments apart and unifying you into a whole person. Like, and you can move freely without the weight of all of the old you on you. That's enough. That's enough. Like, that's it. That's all that's all that matters. Because that good news is going to dominate your house. It will dominate the block that you live on, it will dominate the workplaces that you enter into. Like, you now have dominion because my words came from the Lord. And like, I am just a proxy for the Spirit and the Jesus that was raised from the dead after the third day. Like, and the one that said, I'm doing this on the cross, this work on the cross, because I see you and I love you. And it will come at the expense of my life, but you are worth it because you are worth that, my life. And if anybody says anything less, they're lying to you. You can now move impervious, like literally impervious. This is the this is like look the armor of God, right? Impervious to any lie that comes against you that says somehow you are less than the life of God. Like, and somehow you were you were not meant to be. Somehow you are worthless. All that stuff is trash. It's all a lie. Like, and it happened to me. And so then all of a sudden, maybe one person that listens to this podcast is like, oh snaps, I'm in the field now. Like, I gotta go and tell some people. I gotta go and tell some people, and then those people tell people.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Like when you're out there, it's very simple and direct in your mind. And the mission is like, man, I need to let this person know they're free.

How To Not Grow Weary

SPEAKER_01 45:06

No, it's not that simple, but it is simple. Um, you're zealous, like zeal, zeal is uh okay, so like I I use this all the time. I bought a vacuum cleaner that is also a mop. It is the greatest freaking invention of the last, like, it of like the last like freaking five years. I don't use any device in my house more than that, vacuum mop, other than my phone, other than my phone and my laptop. Like that thing gets used every single day. I tend to it like a friend. Like it is, it is of it brings me great joy because it works so well. It fulfills its promises. Like it is, it is not only a utility, but it also is like associated to like me caring for my family, right? So like this thing is just like it's incredible. That's a low-stakes value proposition. Like, if you don't buy the mop, your life's not going to change that much. If you do buy the mop, your life will increase in quality incrementally quite a bit. Like, like, but it is not it is a low stakes value proposition. A high stakes value proposition is you can be free from depression right now. You will like you can have absolute control over the black dog that's. Sits in front of your life that keeps you from living. That's a big, big high stakes value proposition. Like, do you like like uh uh uh a woman at the well, right? Like um uh you uh if you drink this water, you will never thirst again. High stakes value proposition. Like incredibly high stakes. If this is true, everything changes. If it's not true, like this person who has gathered tons and tons of people around them is of the worst type of person a lot like possible, like the worst type of like manipulative liar possible. But if it is true, if I drink from his cup and I never thirst again, game over. Like this is it. Like we've won. Right? Like literally, we've won. And so when you are in the field, no matter what field you are in, whether it's a church, a church, not the church, the church technically is not the same type of field. It's not a field. It is us edifying and encouraging each other in love and good works. It is us correcting and confessing, it is us like stirring, it is us do, it is us keeping each other in the way in love. Yeah? That's different than being in the field. Being in the field, you have to be no matter what field you're in, you have to be more in love with their current problem than the solution that you have that you know works, which is Jesus. Like, you have to be more in love with their problem. Like, and it is hard to do that when you're like, yo, Jesus, get rid of your depression, right? Like, because like the thing is that they don't trust you, they don't trust anybody. Like, because they've tried already, the medication doesn't work. Going to church doesn't work. I'm still depressed, like I'm still suffering from this thing. And so, in order for you to actually present, like there has to be a bridge of trust and familiarity. If you guys remember my testimony, it makes so much more sense to me now. Where the Lord was like, make them love you and trust you, and then bring them to me. Like when he was talking about love, he wasn't talking about uh agape, he wasn't talking about charity, he was talking about like familiarity and likeness, like like the like friendship. Because there's four types of love, right? There's I can't remember the exact degree, yeah. But he wasn't talking about agape, he was talking about like like people actually being drawn to me and like trusting me, and like there's a bridge of familiarity there, right? So investing, purely investing in being in love with their problem, in being like listening and being understand, actually empathy, like before compassion, actual sympathy, which is like I get how you feel, empathy, which is like, yeah, I can understand how you feel, and then like compassion is like I'm gonna act on it, right? Slow, just go slower, like just go slower because there's so much that needs to happen in the sympathy and empathy space, right? Like people only want sympathy. That's not what we're signed up. We know we didn't sign up for that. Like we signed up all the way for compassion, which is there is a solution to what you are struggling with, you can be free from this. We're signed up for that, but there's a pace that I've learned over time, which is that when you come, when you come for their throat too early and you're like, hey, are you ready to die yet? Like, that's extreme. Like, that's that's a type of extreme that there is a time and place for that. And usually the time and place for that is like this the person comes to you with the same exact problem over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. It's like, ah, you just gotta put this to death. Like, but yeah, I would say far too often in my early walk, I went straight for the here's my solution. You should just take this red pill and be free, right? Like, versus being like truly like understanding, empathetic, and sympathetic to what they are suffering. Because if I can properly understand what it is that they're actually going through, I can show you in the text where the Lord went through it to. And if this is why I'm saying Buddhism works so well, they would have gotten me in the flesh, right? Because all you got to do is properly label my problem. Not macro generic labeling, like, but like actually label my problem. It's like, oh my gosh, that is. Then all of a sudden they become open to like, well, what do you got? Like, what this is why your people's test, like this is why every single person that's listening to this, you have a testimony. And why your testimony is so incredibly valuable, even if you don't think it's valuable, right? Like, I had this brother, he listened to my testimony. He's like, that was so incredible, man. That was so incredible. I wish my testimony was that crazy. Like, my testimony is just kind of boring. It's like, I was like, What's your testimony? I was like, it's only like five minutes long. He goes, I was like, all right, uh, just tell them to me. He goes, Well, when I was in middle school, I was walking home and I was listening to Beethoven, and I was walking home, and it was my it was on my Walkman, and it was like tape. I was listening to Beethoven, and the wind blew up, a gust of wind blew up leaves from the ground, and the leaves blew up in front of my face, and I looked up and saw the leaves swirling while I was listening to Beethoven. I go, God is real. God, there is a God. And I was like, that is the freaking best thing I've ever freaking heard. I wish that upon all of our children. I do not wish my testimony on anybody. Like, like, I know what Paul feels. Like, you hear Paul being knocked off the horse, and you're like, dang, that's crazy. He God Jesus showed up. Like, Paul is gonna be like, I don't, I didn't want, like, that was not a good thing that he had to show up. Like, I was out here killing people, and he had to actually show up. You know what would have been great is if Augusta Wynne would have just proven to me that the God of the universe that I've known in my childhood was actually real. Like, your testimony is evidence of the thing working in your life. Like, and if you can, no matter how big or small it is, right? I'm not for everybody. There are people that have testimonies that don't sound like mine at all that are for the people that they're for. My testimony is not gonna transform everybody. It's not gonna make not even transform. No, sorry, make people curious enough to go and seek the solution of Jesus for themselves. Like, my testimony is gonna be curious for some people that are dealing with the same problems I dealt with, right? But like, yeah, like it's it, I think that we far too often underestimate the our capacity to multiply in the spaces that we're in. Now, if you are struggling with the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, there are other things that need to be addressed. Like if you don't have a testimony where you're like, before Jesus, this was how I was, after Jesus, this is how I am, then we need to get there's there's certain things that are just still obstacles in your way or objections in your head, right? But like everybody that meets Jesus doesn't leave the same. He accepts you as you are, like, come as you are, but leave as he is. You can come as you are, like it full inclusivity, come as you are, but you are going to leave as he is. It happens without fail every single time you meet him.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Let me ask you this as we kind of wrap this up. Um, we're talking about the laborers in the field, and that your opinion, like, there's not that many. If if someone's out there and they're like, Yeah, I'm I'm out here in the field and it is getting hard and I'm getting weary, what encouragement would you have for someone who's like, I go to my elders, I go to these people, I go to that person, I go to that person, and all I'm just running into walls, no one's hearing me, no one's seeing what I'm saying. How would you encourage that person?

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Um I think that this is the thing The mission that we are on like this You win the game not like okay I think this is about I think this is about the compression of time. This is why you grow weary, right? Is like like if you if you if you look at a longer time horizon, it's really easy to see that the problems that you're facing that make you weary right now are not actually that big. Like you are not like okay, let me let me just use this, like the the the easiest way I can frame this. Is like the game's already been won where just like the like so the the job that we are are in isn't a like pass fail job, it isn't like the stakes are I mean, yeah, like how do I like it's let me just let me just speak about it from like the perspective because this is really hard, guys. Like, I'll tell you this, like I like I have too many brothers and sisters over the last five years that are that have been weary and have emerged from it, have grown weary and emerged from it, or are entering into weariness, right? Like it is uh I would almost say an inevitability when you start sounding off alarm bells for the kingdom of darkness, like before so yeah, let me talk about that. Before you were doing your thing, right? Self-involved, and all of your suffering was relative to you. Like, when all of your suffering stops being relative to you and the things that are happening to you, and you that still will happen. You'll have loved ones die. Like, that's still that's you suffering, right? That's you mourning, that's you grieving. But like when you're like when you're ministering to the suffering, or when you're like in the field pursuing righteousness and suffering is happening as a consequence of that, it's different because now you have an oppositional force that has been awakened to your existence. Like before they had you, they had you, they didn't have to think about you. They had one dude, one little spirit that was like managing a field of people. Like, it's like, oh yeah, we got all these people. They're they're they're constantly, they're just doing life. They're look at this middle-class neighborhood. Everybody, we we're good. We don't have to think about these guys anymore. Nobody's nobody's sweating in the field here, right? Like, because everybody's lives are good. Like, they don't have to think about you. But the minute that you wake up and you start going out and like advancing the kingdom of heaven, calling people, the kingdom of heaven has arrived. Repent. Like, change your mind about your ways, change your mind about what you think the truth is, change your mind. Like, confess the lie that you have been living under that has caused you to sin continually upon yourself and other people, and change your mind about who you are, who God is, who you are, and what you were made for. And then be baptized, born again, and filled with the Spirit and put on mission. The minute that happens, and you go out like and start telling people, this dude has a million-dollar bag, come and claim yours, right? They will organize. They will organize and they will come for you. And that is when the weariness starts to grow. I think that my call is to not let it compound. Okay, so how do you not grow weary? Here's the answer. Forgive 70 times seven. Most people do not know what that practice actually feels like. Like, to actually forgive them the 700th time for the exact same transgression. How do you grow weary? Hold on to it.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Holding on to it.

Final Push To Enter The Field

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Holding on to it. You will grow weary so fast. Like, because it won't just be one person. My homegirl, my homegirl just buried her dad. And every single person that was an adult around her should have acted in a way that they did not act. Not one person, dozens of people. And if she were to hold on to offense, bitterness and weariness would grow like a freaking weed in her heart and in her mind. Like, forgive 70 times seven and be perfect like your father is. His definition of perfect, right? His definition of perfect was to love your enemies and pray for those who hate you. Like, and I will say that the let me talk about the rhythm, right? Like in first 2 Peter 1, there's uh an establishment of a rhythm of like of like a way of being in supplement to your faith. Like you believe, I believe that I that the Lord Jesus Christ is God and King, and therefore I am a I have been made his heir, right? So I'm an heir, which makes me a saint. And if I'm a saint, I am a I am a slave to righteousness, I am a son of God or a daughter of God, I am a judge, and uh, and I am uh and I'm an heir, like I'm a prince or a princess, right? Like, so if I believe these things, then there's a rhythm that's established with that faith in 2 Peter 1. It's all the things that you have to supplement. Like those things will go first when you grow weary, and so it is vigilant, like a vigilant maintenance of the routines that supplement your faith. Like prayer, fellowship, confession, confession. Like literally, if you even if you don't want to, you make a list and you just do it. Like doing, you know what self-control is? Doing things that are good for you and you don't want to. That's all self-control is. Like just doing the thing that you know is good for you when you don't want to, right? And like he has it very clear because he knows what was coming. Like he knows what is coming. He warned us at the end of the Beatitudes. He literally was like, Hey guys, I am God, you will be set free, and here's what's gonna happen. Like, all of the blessed, like, and then at the very the very last blessing, you will be persecuted. Like it's not from people, like it's not from people, guys. People are vehicles, it's not from people, people aren't persecuting you. The kingdom of darkness is why because all of a sudden you weren't a problem and now you're a problem. Like, if you they feed off of our sacrifices to them, all of the altars that they have set up in our lives, they feed off of that, and all of a sudden we're gone, and we give nothing anymore. If anything, we're actually removing other people that are sacrificing to them. They are going to persecute you, like they will come for you because you are messing with them and how they sustain themselves. Like, y'all, okay, encouraging every single person here, right? Like, don't grow weary. How? Forgiveness. Forgiveness, the practice of forgiveness. Just read, just repeat the Lord's prayer in your head in the morning and ask if there is anywhere that you have not forgiven that you are holding on to a fence. And it is shocking what will be revealed because it's the minutia that matters. He goes from the big to the small, but the small compounded over time is a big thing. Yeah. And then be perfect like your father. Love your enemies and pray for them. Pray for those who pray and hate you and persecute you, right? And then just know like know that there is a practice you must work with the Lord to create in your life because it is all specific. Self-control for me is different than self-control for Richard, still self-control, right? But those routines under the weariness of doing this thing, of living this thing, are the first things that go. Like, and then your faith will get challenged. Like, keep those up at all costs.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Thank you so much for this encouragement. I feel like running through a brick wall right now and being like, I got the bag. Uh, I love you, and you're you're you're always an encouragement to me. Thank you so much for for sharing with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Love you all, everybody that's listening. The Lord is for you and he's with you to the end of this age and beyond. We have a good thing. We have a good, good thing. It is the best thing, it is the greatest thing, it is the only thing that matters. Like, uh my call to every single person that tunes into this podcast and listens to the voice of Richard edify you every single week. Start sweating. There's not enough of us in the field. If you can't get past your first one, you won't ever go into the field. It's okay. Just do it. There's somebody already there. The parable of the talent starts with one, then grows to 10, 20, 30. Because he knows you. You have shepherded the one well. Do it. Like, and if you're gonna do it and you wanna know how to do it, just be more in love with their problem than the solution at the moment. If they can trust you and they are familiar with you and they believe that you understand them, they will also believe that maybe what you have to say will solve all of the things that they're struggling with forever. Maybe, right? But sitting on the bench, sitting on the bench is your time, is not your own. Stop sitting on the bench. I love you. Love you.