Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#259 Manalo: From Manila To Michigan And Back To Jesus
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
We hear Manalo trace a winding path from Catholic superstition and street survival to new age spirituality, Scripture, and a real encounter with Jesus. His story lands on repentance, fatherhood, and the kind of forgiveness that feels impossible until God supplies it.
• growing up between poverty and provision in Manila within a big family system
• moving to Queens and building a tough persona out of fear
• mixing Catholic practice with superstition and confusion about Scripture
• returning to the Philippines for college and sliding into drugs and entitlement
• chasing new age spiritualism and the “Christ consciousness” trap
• reading the Bible for the first time and facing Jesus’ bold claims
• baptizing himself in a river and feeling conviction without full freedom yet
• restaurant life, occult detours, and finding a punk rock church community
• hearing “repent” as suffering and learning repentance as turning to God
• facing an unplanned pregnancy and choosing to show up as a father
• walking through Sonia’s severe health crisis and witnessing recovery over time
• meeting Lorraine, learning Holy Spirit as a person, and moving toward marriage
• receiving supernatural grace to forgive a stepfather and living out kingdom love
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
Join us for the best gathering on the internet, Internet Church. Every other Friday. Find out at www.lovereality.org/circles
Continue growing with friends! Join a circle over at www.lovereality.org/circles
Why Transformation Still Happens
SPEAKER_05The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
SPEAKER_02When I was 27, 28, um, I had come into a place in my life when I was talking to my pastor in his garage, and he said, Have you ever thought about repenting? And all right, so that's a very like neutral thing to ask somebody if if you understand what repent means. But I for 27, 28 years, I thought repent meant this. Because you're a sinner, you're gonna do sin.
SPEAKER_00And so now that you've sinned, there will be consequences, negative consequences, and so repent and suffer for those sins because you sowed this seed and now repent and suffer. So I used to think that repent meant suffer for the sins that you've committed because you're a bad person.
SPEAKER_05And you were like, uh, Pastor, I've been doing that. Yeah, literally. I was like, what? How could you say that? Like, it's happening, bro.
SPEAKER_00Like, because I was burying out my heart, man. I was like, I don't know what to do. He's like, Have you ever thought about repenting? I'm like, I thought this, I thought, I thought that's why I mean I'm in your garage because I'm just suffering, you're suffering with me.
SPEAKER_05That's that's sad and also hilarious. Yo, welcome to the Death of Life podcast. My name is Richard Young. Uh, you know this. We've been doing this podcast for a while, and today I have a guest uh who got married to a previous guest when the previous guest wasn't on the podcast, they weren't married when they were on the podcast. Now they're married, and now this person has received amazing freedom. And uh I was hanging out with him the other day and I was like, bruh, when are we gonna record? And he said, bruh, you say, and so we've been we've been trying to figure out a time. We finally got a time. Today's guest is Manalo, and I'm super excited for you guys to hear his story. I'm excited to hear his story. So uh Manalo from Michigan. Uh buckle up and strap in. Love y'all and appreciate y'all. Did you like that?
SPEAKER_00Oh what's up, man? How are you doing? How are you feeling today? I'm doing good. I'm doing it's good to see you, first of all. It's like you got a 10 since I saw you in October.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was uh the dead of winter in October. It's a little sunnier here. Um, yeah, man. Where where does your where where are you from? Where does your story start like in your spiritual life? Where like are you from Michigan?
SPEAKER_00I was born and raised in the Philippines.
SPEAKER_05Okay. I didn't want to be like you're not from here.
SPEAKER_00Hey, that that's a fair question.
SPEAKER_05You're born and raised in the Philippines.
SPEAKER_02What uh what uh wait, you said what state? What city or what's do they have city, Manila? Uh tech me technically not, but there's regions.
SPEAKER_00I was
Meet Manalo And His Backstory
SPEAKER_00born in um the outskirts of Manila, which is one of the most like densely populated places on the earth, I think.
SPEAKER_02So Manila, Philippines. And I was born and raised there until I was nine. When I was nine, my mom basically got her visa to immigrate to the States. So she took me and our my my two other brothers. We moved to New York City and I lived there until I was 18. And then, crazy enough, after high school, I said, I think I want to go back to the Philippines. And the only excuse I had was I'm gonna go to college in the Philippines. So that's what I told everybody, which I did.
SPEAKER_00So I went to college in the Philippines, 18, graduated at 25, came back to the states.
SPEAKER_02Um, long story short, when I moved back to the States in 2016, I went from New York to the state of Wyoming to Michigan in about two and two-ish years.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Hold on. So densely populated Manila, lived there till nine. Like, were you did your parents, were they okay? Did they, were they well off? Were they poor? What like what was life like in Manila?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I lived in two homes, and uh
Growing Up In Manila
SPEAKER_02my my mother is a single mom, was a single mom, is a single mom. Uh long story short, I never met my father, and her my mother's brother, so my uncle, um basically offered to raise me to to help out, or you know, it in the Philippines is very family clan community-based. So it's like, all right, move them to this house, we'll take care of them, you'll see them on weekends, and we all get together. It's one big family. So my mother's house was more um for sure smaller. I mean, like by by today, by American standards, you would definitely say poverty. Um and then my my uncle, who I call him my dad, he he he was better off. And we, you know, I was able to go to private school and all that kind of stuff because of the the the good work. He was an architect, and so he was able to bring money in. But he didn't he never had time. He had money, but he never had time. So I grew up very uh very secluded, just doing my own thing all the time, playing in, playing in the woods, playing in the backyard all the time, that kind of stuff. And then uh crazy thing is I mostly lived with my uncle, but then like I said, when I was age nine, we moved to the states, and now I had to live under a new set of rules, which was my mom's, because I lived with my uncle during the weekdays, and then went back to my mom's house on the weekend. So we moved to the states, and I have to I'm able to live with my mom now, but she has a completely different set of rules that I lived by, and there was just a lot of rebellion in those years for a long time.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. In the Philippines, what is the largest religion? Is it Buddhism? What would you say is the largest religion in the Philippines?
SPEAKER_02It's um probably broken up between the northern part of the Philippines, which is uh Luzon, that's Catholicism, and then the lower parts of the Philippines, more of the island areas, uh Visayas and Mindanao is more Muslim. Oh wow. I grew up Catholic. Um but something I always say when people when people ask me this question, I grew up Catholic, but nobody ever told me to read my Bible. I'm like, I'm just so confused by that. And when I finally read my Bible, that's when I was like, whoa, this is wild. But that's a little bit later in the story. When so I grew up Catholic, but I also, the Philippines, probably other, like maybe if you want to say third world countries, the Philippines is very um uh the supernatural things are very commonplace in places outside of the US. I think uh I think majority of the world sees supernatural things very commonly. And what I mean by that is growing up, you know, zero to nine, you know, you're playing in the woods or whatever, and your elders or your neighbors, people older than you, they'll be like, hey, don't play by that tree over there. You can play anywhere you want, but that tree right there, there's a gnome there going to put a curse on you if you don't, if you mess around, you get them angry. So stay away from that tree. So that's an example. There's also other stories of um uh there's there's a lot of witchcraft in the Philippines. There's a lot of um,
Catholic Faith And Supernatural Fear
SPEAKER_02there's specifically there's they call it they call her the white lady. She's oftentimes like seen in the woods, in the mountains, in very nature-driven areas. She's the white lady and she'll she'll she'll actually get you lost if you're hiking. So definitely don't be following her around. There's stuff like that, bro.
SPEAKER_05When they call her Karen, it's these white. Um was is the brand of Catholicism then is it tied up with some of the supernatural stuff?
SPEAKER_02I would think so. Um especially in the realm of like ask Saint, I don't know. I'm not too familiar with how they canonize saints, but like ask Saint Peter to protect you from the demonic parts of in this part of town, or like, so it's kind of like where Catholicism crossed over is like to combat the darkness in in that supernatural stuff, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_05Man, I was just reading today about how religion in the Philippines is different than here in the States, and how some of the legalistic parts of the religion can overtake a people who are so concerned with the supernatural. And and the poverty part of it is like when they say like Jesus is coming, like people that are steeped in poverty, they're like, Oh, he's coming, and it's like, oh, he's coming tomorrow. So they like they like they rally and like everything is like yo, this is like this is serious. And I'm thinking about that, I'm like, man, that's so that's a different brand than over here, because yeah, we don't live that way. Um, and yet I'm sure it's so meaningful, but can also be very dangerous for legalistic thinking or fear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, fear, you got it, fear. And I think um in in that realm of things, I think one of the things is poor leadership. If you give somebody a bunch of information but you don't tell them how it applies, then they can start filling in the blanks that maybe they're they're not ready to fill in themselves. They need somebody guiding them to fill in those blanks. And they think they take certain things that you know, like the superstitions, if you will, they fill in the blanks with superstitious versus scripture or the gospel. And then they take this superstitious upbringing that they have, which is very, very real, it's it's experienced, and then they take uh uh let's just say that for right now, like the kick the gospel is Jesus is coming, he's saving the world. They're like, oh I'm gonna fill in the blanks to to to to say that this is what it means when Jesus is coming. And so they they come up with their own doctrine, maybe, that they live it out by, but then it's sprinkled with verbiage of gospel and Jesus and grace and righteousness. For example, I used to think the word repent, this was we're gonna fast forward. Like when I was 27, 28, um, I had come into a place in my life when I was talking to my pastor in his garage, and he said, Have you ever thought about repenting? And all right, so that's a very like neutral thing to ask somebody if if you understand what repent means. But I for 27, 28 years, I thought repent meant this. Because you're a sinner, you're gonna do sin.
SPEAKER_00And so now that you've sinned, there will be consequences, negative consequences, and so repent and suffer for those sins because you sowed this seed and now repent and suffer. So I used to think that repent meant suffer for the sins that you've committed because you're a bad person.
SPEAKER_05And you were like, uh, Pastor, I've been doing that. Yeah, literally. I was like, what? How could you say that?
SPEAKER_00Like it's happening, bro. Like because I was bearing out my heart, man. I was like, I don't know what to do. He's like, Have you ever thought about repenting? I'm like, I thought this, I thought, I thought that's what I mean. I'm in your garage, because I'm just suffering, you're suffering with me.
SPEAKER_05That's that's sad and also hilarious. Yeah. How um did you believe this stuff? Like when you came over to New York and when you were nine, were you like, yeah, this is what I'm about, or was it just something that, like, since I'm Filipino and this is the part of the country that I grew up in, this is just a part of me, not really like I'm about it?
SPEAKER_00Um well, my extent of being Catholic was you gotta go to church, you gotta um be quiet when they're doing rosary prayers.
SPEAKER_02Um in the Philippines specifically, I don't know if this is Catholicism globally, but there's um there's called something called midnight mass. And I and I think it's this part of the part of the year between like uh Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday, that period of seven weeks, I might be getting some details wrong, but that period of seven weeks, if you it's it's kind of like it's common knowledge, so to speak. They say if you go to church every night at midnight, so they have special midnight mass from you know Sunday to Sunday, between uh Palm Sunday to Easter, Easter Sunday. If you go every night during for midnight mass, God will grant you your wish. So think of a wish.
SPEAKER_05That's true. That's actually that's in scripture. No doctor.
SPEAKER_06See?
SPEAKER_05See that's in Hezekiah chapter 14, uh verses 6-7. Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah, that's not in there. Midnight Mass, bro.
SPEAKER_02I thought it was like in Leviticus or something, bro.
SPEAKER_05But that's like that's the kind of stuff you were you were digging in.
SPEAKER_02That was the extent of my Catholicism. Um, and then uh what it I got baptized as a baby, um, took my first communion. I think that's at like eight, seven or eight years old. And then that that's it. Um and then when we moved to New York, so my mom, I believe that I inherited her faith, even though I had no understanding, even though I had no real real interest in all this stuff. Over the years, when I finally got born again, things started to make sense. And I'm like, oh, this is all from my mom. She she sowed these seeds of faith inside of me. Pardon me, that finally it started budding when I was 28, 27. But anyway, when we moved to New York, um, she would make sure to take us to church and all that stuff. And I remember I moved around a lot when I lived in New York, and there was a place that we lived in for a long time. And she said, if you go to church, I'll buy you Burger King. I was like, All right, I want some Burger King. So that's that was the extent of it, you know. And I remember being at church and just spacing out, like, you know, I used to play this game in my mind of like I would pretend because Catholic churches are beautiful, man, some of the most beautiful buildings you'll ever enter. And I just would space out, look, you know, look at the ceiling, look at the rose windows. Um, and after a while, I would play this game of like I I was pretending like I would be dismantling the building with just one hammer. And that would take up my imagination for about an hour, 15 minutes, good to go, you know.
SPEAKER_00That was it.
SPEAKER_05So what borough did you move to? Let me qu let me guess. Queens. Yeah. So you moved to Queens. What was like you didn't speak English, right? Or did you in the Philippines? I did, I did.
SPEAKER_02They teach you pretty young uh in the Philippines to speak English. So I I spoke English, uh, came there.
SPEAKER_05What was it like? Was it a was it a different, just total world lesson? For sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, first of all, we came in December. So it blew my mind when I could see my breath. I remember my brother and I coming out the airport, breathing on each other, going, whoa, dude, this is cool. Um, and then going to public school, I went to New York City public school. So, you know, for sure, uh, saw a lot of uh violence, saw a lot of just um profanity. And uh were you scared? I probably wouldn't have admitted it, but if I look back now, yeah, I was like, oh, I'm gonna act tough so nobody messes with me. So that was my extent of being scared. And that actually that created down the road, that actually created a stronghold in my life where I always felt like any room I entered, I felt like I needed to be the toughest guy in the room so that no one would mess with me. And sometimes it works, sometimes you just look like a fool doing it. Most of the time now, for what once you know the truth, you look like a fool every time, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. You're like slizing up the room, everyone's like, hey, brother. Yeah, totally. You're just like, I could totally. Totally. So you went through that public school system. Did it change you? Did like by the time you're 17, 18, you're senior, junior, senior high school, like what what kind of a kid were you?
SPEAKER_02That's a good question. Um I was I liked I liked school actually. I like math and science and history and all that stuff, so that came pretty easy to me. Um, and I I think I was the kid that tried to um again fit in by acting tough. And so I I started cussing up and down the streets all the time as best as I could because that meant you were tough. And I remembered when I I we finally moved uh to a house, to an apartment that was ours, because up until um maybe I was
Queens Culture And Survival Mode
SPEAKER_0211, we had moved around so many times just sleeping in relatives' homes. Like we would sleep in someone's bedroom for a long time until finally we got approved for basically project housing. So um we moved to the projects, and my brother, he says, Hey, everybody here is a gangster, so you gotta walk with a limp and act like you're a gangster, otherwise, people are gonna mess with you. So when I heard that, I was like, oh, all right, I'm gonna start walking with a little gangster limp. Like, and what's so funny is I just took that on and said, everybody who comes across me, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta act tough or else they're gonna hurt me. And that was my internal monologue for um probably you know, the next 10 to 15 years after that. Yeah. That's kind of wild.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that is wild. So is that the that influence you to like, yeah, I want to go to college in the Philippines?
SPEAKER_02Um I don't think that was that was the specific influence because if I remember, um during the so I'm 18, right? And during this time, um I'm smoking weed, I am going out late at night, I'm drinking. Um and my mom is like, hey, you can't go out late at night, but I would sneak out, and every now and again she would confront me. And so I would push her out of the way, brudge out the house. Um, so there was what I'm saying is there was a lot of conflict between my mom and I because she was like, hey, like I'm trying to protect you from these influences that are not good, but you want to go and pursue them, somebody's gotta stop you. I can't just say yes, you know what I mean, even though it it produced conflict. And so this conflict uh caused me to want to escape. And actually to go back one, that whole internal monologue of I gotta be the toughest in the room so nobody messes with me is is like double false. Because if somebody ever did mess with me, I wanted to, I was already in the place of being scared, so I couldn't really stand up for myself, you know?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So anyway, with my mom, when that conflict happened, I wanted to escape. And so I was like, what's the best way to escape? I'm moved to another country. Come on.
SPEAKER_05And so uh what what what music were you listening to at this time?
SPEAKER_02Uh a lot of uh rock, like alternative rock.
SPEAKER_05Like give me some bands, like you're smoking up, you're you're smoking weed. What do you listen to when you're smoking weed?
SPEAKER_02Um, I would listen to Slipknot, I would listen to Incubus, Red Hot Chili Peppers, uh Oasis, um Uh metallic.
SPEAKER_05You're not really raging like Slipknot. This is like a totally different yeah, it's a variance. Like I was like, I was I was I was like if you're kind of angry. The stuff you were listening to was a little angry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. That that people would definitely describe me as angry. I wore black all the time. I had at least two chains on me all at all times, you know. Like you cool? I need to see pictures of this. Oh, I don't know. I was I was I mean, the people who surrounded themselves with me said I was cool, so that counts for something.
SPEAKER_05Were you uh you class of I'm gonna try to guess here oh yeah class of 01 in high school?
SPEAKER_02I might be, I don't know. You don't remember when you graduated? I don't remember. I remember graduating. Oh no, I'm
Escape To The Philippines
SPEAKER_0207. I'm 07.
SPEAKER_05Oh man, my bad. I didn't need to give you five years. You're good, you're good. Yeah, okay. You're you're much younger than me. Yeah, yeah. Um, but that's you're like, let me get out of here. I'm gonna go. What were you gonna study in the Philippines?
SPEAKER_02So um, as I mentioned, my my uncle, who I call my dad, my dad, he was a practicing architect. And so I said, I'll be an architect. If I if if I gotta go to college, I'll be an architect. And so I reached out to him. I said, Hey dad, can I come come back and study an architecture and live with you? He said, Yeah. Once he said yeah, I said, Hey mom, my dad said I could go back to the Philippines and study and he'll pay for my college. And uh my mom is so gracious, man. She said yes. She could have easily said no. Wow, she could have easily said no, but she said yes. And uh shortly after, found myself on a plane and uh sent back. Now, if so I had you know, I had these habits, right? Like I was like seeking drugs and uh being rebellious, sneaking out as much as I can, and and the one person who tried to talk any sense into me, I said no, thank you. And then when I moved to the Philippines, nobody said no. Nobody said, hey, don't do that. There was no sort of any type of uh frankly parental supervision. They're like, Oh, what time will you be home? Do you need money for alcohol? Are you gonna treat your friends for alcohol? Um they literally asked like for alcohol. It's part of the culture. It's part, it's part of the culture. Um yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_05So, like, yes, I would appreciate some money for alcohol. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's almost like, hey, go and make new friends, go, go buy everybody around. Um you guys going to the club today? Here, here's some money. Yeah, oh, so wild, dude. I don't even know how that makes sense. But that's literally that's that's what happened. So, and I I I basically walked on into uh a like pretty prestigious university in the Philippines, but it's because my my grandfather taught there as a professor. And so he wrote a letter that basically said, This is my grandson, let him in. And they said, Good to go. So I took, yeah, I nobody said no. Wow. Nobody said no. I just had all the act, all access passed to just entitlement and just moving forward.
SPEAKER_05Was it hard to get back in that culture with the language and everything after being in the States for nine years? Was it hard to, or within a few months were you like, yeah, this is this, I remember all this?
SPEAKER_02It was pretty easy because something about the Philippines that um you uh you can take it for what it is, but something about the Philippines is they adore Americans. There's there's a good and a bad side to that if we were gonna get into some sort of like, I don't know, what do they call it, social sciences? If we're gonna have a social science conversation, but they love Americans. And so I went up there with a New York accent. Come on, bro. I was like everybody's friend. And I had money for alcohol. Come on, I was everybody's friend. And uh school-wise, it was um, and even then no one was saying no to me in school because they put me in like what be what would be uh English second language, like ESL class, but Filipino second language. So I kind of got a pass for not really understanding college level Filipino Tagalog. And then also I got a pass into the admission into the university for like with nothing. Um and also um I was uh I had a gap year. So I was not, I didn't work, I didn't go to school, I didn't do anything for a year because the admission date was a year out. Because I had to, you know, logistics-wise, the admission year was a year out. So I was in the Philippines from uh 07 to 08, just doing nothing.
SPEAKER_05Just drinking buying rounds for your homies.
SPEAKER_02Basically. Oh my gosh. This this is this must be Holy Spirit, because I would not share this truly, but this this is so funny. Now it's funny. I'm gonna share it because it's funny. We'd be in a club and Kanye, I think it was Kanye and Estelle featuring Estelle. She has this call song. American voice. Yeah. So that song would play, and everyone would point to me, and I'm like, Yes, come on now. Yes, that's me, that's me. So cool.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, how did how did school go? Like, yeah, you said you were there for a while in school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I went to a five five-year program. Took me six years because I was not taking it seriously because I didn't earn it. I didn't earn it. Um you were entitled, huh? Oh, absolutely, for sure. On so many levels. And the the crazy thing is, it took me five years because I completed everything except for uh design 10, which was the last class. This that's your that's the thesis class. You need to pass that class to get a, you know, to basically prove you're ready to step into architecture. And that was the only class I had to take it twice because I kept playing hooky and going to the mountains and surfing and skating and smoking and eating mushrooms. And that's that's when I started really getting introduced into like new age spiritualism and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_05Um, which like you were worshiping the earth or something, or worshiping the waves, or like what were bro? I was worshiping everything I could worship.
SPEAKER_02Man, like I was I was worshiping the moon and I was worshiping the sun and I was worshiping the mushrooms and I was worshiping Krishna and I was worshiping Buddha and I was worshiping Christ. And like literally, I'm like, the God is everywhere. It like, but God, God is so faithful because he met me in that place that he said, Fat if I fast forward, I had a conversation when I finished college, moved back to the States, I had a conversation in the great state of Wyoming with a woman from Michigan, and I was telling her all about all these new age concepts. And a lot of new agers will, new age whatever practitioners, subscribers who will use the word Christ consciousness, the phrase Christ consciousness, and that's trapped because I was using this word Christ consciousness, but I had never read the words of Jesus Christ. And so finally I kept using this word Christ consciousness on this woman, trying to get all spiritual with her. And she said, Well, have you ever read the Bible for yourself? And I said, Oh, no, I haven't. And she goes, Yeah, why don't you just really for read it for yourself? And so that I liked her, so I followed her advice. So I said, Yeah, I'll go find it, I'll find a Bible. I find a Bible, and I started with Matthew and just read it and read it and read it and read it and read it. And then I man, and then Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father who is God except through me. And I said, What? That's not what I thought Christ's consciousness meant.
SPEAKER_06Huh.
SPEAKER_02This guy is so bold, and and part of the new age, um, I don't know if theology is the right word, part of the new age concept is that uh there are ascended masters, there are spiritual masters, and you can any one person, you know, like you, Rich, me, Manalo, I can choose to go on this spiritual path and become an ascended master and rise to a level of divinity, of being divine.
SPEAKER_05And are you looking for like enlightenment or like that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, truly, yeah, truly, yeah. And so
Drugs And New Age Spirituality
SPEAKER_02the Buddha was one of those people, uh, Krishna was one of those people, and Christ was one of those people. So that was the concept that I was working off of. But then I finally read my Bible and he says, nah, it's just me, bro. And I said, What?
SPEAKER_00This guy is so bold, he's either just wacko or he's telling the truth. Like he like it's it's one or the other.
SPEAKER_02It's not, there's no gray area. He said, It's me or it's not, it's me, or you're not getting in. And I thought he was just an ascended master, quote unquote. But yet I said, Well, this is the only ascended master who has ever said anything so bold. And so I got to figure out what he's talking about. And so, just based off of that, I thought he was just a man, but I followed his words and I just kept reading, I just kept reading, and I just kept reading. And within that same season of life, I was I was out west in Wyoming for uh a six-month contract working at a restaurant. We were on the east gate of Yellowstone, so I was surrounded by nature. And there were times I would just go off by myself, but every morning I would read my Bible, have a cup of coffee, and have a little granola bar. That was like my little ritual. And I just kept, I didn't know it, but I was renewing my mind. And then one day I'm in the river hanging out by myself, and I said, I want what this Jesus guy is talking about. And he says, I have to get, he got baptized, so I need to get baptized. So I baptized myself. I baptized myself.
SPEAKER_05Dan Muller baptized himself. Are you serious? I didn't know that. Like he just read, oh, there's water baptism, and it's sold out for God, and he's like, I gotta go do this thing. So he got in his bathtub and he baptized himself. Like you did the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, did he do it three times?
SPEAKER_02I said three times. No, I said, I said, I Dan Muller, I he's actually um he's he's impacted my life so much. But um I I got I got into this river. I said, boom, I dunked myself in the river. Oh, cool. I'm like, I better be sure. Like, I'm gonna do it three times because three is the number of God, right? So I'm like, I dunk myself again, boom, whoa, and I dunked myself again, whoa. But bro, I tell you, something it was just like a glimmer of hope. Like it was a beautiful spring day. The ice was melting off of the mountains, and so the rivers were flowing like in a you know, like power with a little bit of umph on it, and it was cold, cold water. And I dunked myself in there three times, man, and I came out, and there was like a ray of ray of light that just that hit different man, and then I said, Wow, climbed out. I was like, man. And then I went back to smoking weed.
SPEAKER_05But I mean, God met you there, right?
SPEAKER_02Truly, truly, truly.
SPEAKER_05So from the time you leave the Phillips, like you got your degree in architecture?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I did.
SPEAKER_05And so then you're gonna come back to the States and you're gonna try to work for a firm, or what were you gonna try to do before like we get to this Wyoming thing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I um so because I had wasted so much time in college, I only learned how to think like an architect, but I didn't learn to do well, specifically, I didn't learn any of the software that uh modern day
Reading Jesus For The First Time
SPEAKER_02entry-level architecture, you know, graduates need to be able to use to get into the workforce. Because I always had my friends do my projects. I'd be like, hey, we're going to town, we're we're we're going, we're going on this 10-day trip. I need help with my project. Can you do this for me? And I'd get enough of them to I'd get this person to do one, I'd get this person to do one, I'd get this person to do one, and I'd combine all of it. Next thing you know, I got a finished product.
SPEAKER_05And so who should have hired you for anything? So I couldn't get hired for anything. Will will you build this building for us? Sorry. I don't know. I can get a bunch of my homies together.
SPEAKER_00I mean, like, can't I could just be the boss of the company, right? Like, can I go from graduate straight to boss? Are there any openings for that? I know how to like boss people around. Can I get, you know, but no, I couldn't find any work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I couldn't find any work in the architecture field. And so I said, all right, I'm gonna get my master's. I'll just submit the the portfolio I had from my undergrad, submit it into a master's program, and then I'll get into a master's program and they'll I'll they'll teach me new things. I'll be fully equipped at that point. So I get into a uh landscape architecture uh master's program at uh City College um in New York. And I'm like, all right, this is this is the path that you go. This is what people who are pursuing a career do. You know, you get your bachelor's and you get your master's, then you could say you're good to go. You got another ticket, you got another golden ticket for the next six years after that. And um this is kind of crazy, like, but in the meantime, you know, I'm waiting for the admission again, I'm waiting for the admission dates, I'm waiting for school to open up. And then uh one of my friends introduces cocaine to me. And so I say I actually didn't want to, but you know, peer pressure and considering my mindset at the time, I was just so um so ready to fit in and to fit into the crowd. And I said, okay. And um Yeah, like did did cocaine a handful of times, but I just I just I just knew that if I hung around in New York, I would get into this thing, I would get into cocaine, I would get just start start getting into weird things. And um there was just something in me that said, I need to get out of New York. I need to get out of here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you're like, if I'm gonna be here, this is gonna be bad news.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Because I just I just spent the last eight years wasting my life, wasting not my life. I mean, you can't really say that. You can't say you, you know, any part of your life is a waste, but I I just spent the last eight years being unproductive. How about that? And um so I gotta I gotta get out of New York. And these friends were my childhood friends. They they knew how to pull on me, you know what I mean? Like we had history, you know? And so now they started doing whatever, coke and all this stuff, and just learning all sorts of stuff that no one should be learning about. And uh I said, I gotta get on here. And one day I was watching a Netflix documentary, I think it's called Unbranded, but it's about uh four or five, four college kids, no, four high school kids who are taking a gap year before they go to college. And the documentary is about them capturing wild horses in Mexico, uh, you know, taming them and then riding them all the way up to Canada. And so it's it's just you're like, that's me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm like, oh, that I was bored for that.
SPEAKER_02So I don't even know how I find this website, which is kind of like a portal for um uh seasonal contract jobs, like seasonal contracts. And uh it's called coolworks.com. And it's just a bunch of seasonal contracts people post on there. It's kind of like Indeed, but specifically for seasonal contracts, um, a lot of times for national parks. And then I find one for uh Yellowstone National Park, Cody, Wyoming. A mile away from the East Gate of Yellowstone, surrounded by beautiful mountains, grizzly bears, da-da-da, and horses. I'm like, that's it. That's my take. That's my destiny right there.
SPEAKER_05Wyoming's not far from Canada, so I just need to tame one.
SPEAKER_00Oh man.
SPEAKER_05That's how it happened. Like, was this like a few weeks or is it like a couple days you saw, and you're like, okay, I'm in.
SPEAKER_02You know what's crazy? I don't remember any of it. I don't remember how I found the website. I don't remember, I do remember the interview. It was a phone interview, and um, I don't remember the timeline. Um but I was in New York for a year to a year and a half at most. So that's it. Like I worked.
SPEAKER_05How old were you when you went out to Yellowstone?
SPEAKER_0225, I think, 26. Probably 26.
SPEAKER_05And so the whole architecture thing is over, and now you're just gonna be doing seasonal work in your mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then I met these people who would work seasonally and then go on unemployment during the off-season and just take their minivan and sleep in the minivan and travel, you know, the the national parks and sleep with girls and you know, drink booze, and you know, eat mushrooms. I was like, oh, that's cool. I could do that. I know how to do that. I know how to do that. So crazy. So you did it. Uh yeah, yeah. I went, I went, I went to that contract. Uh it was a six six-ish month contract, and that's actually how I got into the restaurant industry. So now I work in uh I work with food, and that's that was kind of my my foot in the door to restaurants and um kind of a tangent, but like all throughout architectural school, something that always stood out to me when I was designing a building was how a building could create a space that could f like could create a community. So community was always huge in my mind. And uh the the projects that I focused on were residential, restaurants, hotels, or anything tourism related. And so when I got into the restaurant industry, I said, wow, this is kind of what I've been looking for. This is the community thing that I was theorizing about in architecture, but then it's in the restaurant real life. I think I could do this. And so I just kind of pursued that all the way. Um then I I end up in Wyoming. I'm 26, and um, yeah, nothing changed. I was just in a different location. So I I f I I sniffed out the the I sniffed out the the person who was smoking weed, and I said, can I have can I have some of that? And then we drove down to Colorado, we bought some more, we drove it up and just smoking the rest of the way. And but they again, there was this one person, she's from uh Grand Haven, Michigan, but she was out there for the same reason. She was there for a seasonal contract, and I I ended up like liking her, right? So I'm you know, I'm like trying to talk to her all the time and whatnot. And I eventually got into a conversation with her, and there was something different about her. And now I recognize it that she had the Holy Spirit inside of her because there was something, I didn't understand all these concepts, but she stood out. And she stood out in such a way that she was just truly different. Like she wasn't trying to be different, she was just different. And um everyone was, for example, everyone was watching Game of Thrones at the the lobby or whatever. The because we all lived in dorms, but she was like, I don't want to watch that. That's that's disgusting. I was like, what? It's like blood and sex, and that's the those are the best things. What it's all wrapped into one. Why do why wouldn't you want to watch it? She's like, that's disgusting. That that's not that's none of that is is is right. That challenged me. That that was almost like my first no in a long time. Now that I think about it. That was my first no. And she wasn't telling me no, she was just telling the she was just saying no, and and she meant it, you know. And so I said, huh. So I kept talking to her, and then she encouraged me to read my Bible.
SPEAKER_05So you have this experience you get baptized in the in the waters. Yeah. And next, you're like, Jesus seems like he's the he's saying he's the guy. What what happened after that?
SPEAKER_02I think me baptizing myself started to awaken certain things inside of me. In that once I had baptized myself, there was a conviction to live righteously. Because Jesus modeled a life that was very specific. And I was not walking in alignment to it. And um what's crazy is that conviction instead of putting it on myself, I actually started putting it on other people. I had two younger roommates who were much younger than me. They were almost like 10 years younger than me, maybe eight years younger than me. And they were doing goofy stuff that I had done in the past. And because, you know, I'm 26 at the time, and they're like 19, 18, 19, 20, and they're doing goofy stuff that I started doing at the same age. And I'm like, oh, I know where that's gonna lead. This wasn't my verbiage at the time, but I'm like, I know that's gonna lead to death. Don't do that. But meanwhile, I wasn't putting the finger on myself. I wasn't telling myself to stop. I was telling what I was doing, I was telling them to stop what they were doing because they didn't want to end up where I was. Even though I wasn't honest with myself yet, that I didn't want to be where I was, but there was something there that my spirit man started speaking up. Don't do that, don't do that. And that never works, right? Like you know that that doesn't work either. Hey, I'm not living right, but you better stop doing that. That for sure doesn't work. Um But there was like there was a level of camaraderie because we were roommates, and also I was older, and I mean I had I looked out for them, like in other ways. And so there was a level of respect, but then I started condemning them essentially for certain things. Don't do that, don't do that. You don't want to do that. Um that's it. And then I that girl moved back, she was gonna start school, and I said, I ain't got nothing to do, I'll go visit you. And long story short, I was like, I I flew into GR for Grand Rapids, and I said, Wow. And so mind you, I'd lived in two big cities, Manila and uh New York. And so I can spot certain things if a city's rising. If a city is growing, I can spot certain things. And I flew into GR and I said, wow, this city's kind of coming up. I think I could stay here for a little bit. It's nice and quiet, it's got a little bit of country taste to it, but I see the city is expanding. I'm gonna stay here. I think I could raise a family here. But I was a single guy. I was a single guy. I I ended up dating that girl for a short time. Um, but I I didn't even have her in mind. Um, I was it internally, I was like, I could raise a family here. And so I just kind of stuck to my guns in that sense. And you know what's whack? You know why that didn't work out?
SPEAKER_05Why?
SPEAKER_02Because in my in my mind, I said, all right, I'm gonna marry this girl, the one I was dating. And then at some point or another, we'll we'll we'll probably get a divorce. So I'll just and then when once we get a divorce, my second wife. This is whack, bro. My second wife, I'll just get a younger wife. And so that was that was the mindset that I had. That was the mindset that I had. No, I don't need and and literally, I was having lunch with her at one time, and I told her that. I literally told her that. I'm like, you know, it I said, my second wife will be X, Y, and Z.
SPEAKER_05And she goes, You didn't get a graduate degree in charm school. That's so loud. That's terrible, bro. What did she say?
SPEAKER_02She just said, What? And then she didn't say anything, but that was for sure in her mind. She was like, Oh, I gotta get myself out of here. You know what I mean? She didn't confront me in that moment, but she saw what it was. Yeah, yeah, she knew what it was. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So, but then now you're in Grand Rapids, and uh you're gonna you gotta get a couple wives here, you gotta get the first one out of the way so that you can find your younger second one. Were you working in the restaurant business?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I was. And um what did I do? I I was
Grand Rapids And Restaurant Life
SPEAKER_02I was working in a bar, and then I later on worked at a bakery. Um and then another bakery, and then a sushi spot. And yeah, and I mean, restaurants don't have to be this way, but in my experience, oftentimes the restaurant industry uh attracts a lot of uh lost and broken people. And um, there's a lot of access to a lot of alcohol, there's a lot of access to you know, backdoor type of stuff, like stuff you should be able to do.
SPEAKER_05It's an exciting life, man. It's an exciting life. Yeah, everything's leading up to service, and then service comes and you get slam, and so it's exciting, and then it's over, and you go party some more, and then you you do it up the next day. So a lot of young people, a lot of people with ADHD, a lot of people who like that kind of excitement end up going towards restaurant business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I just started surrounding my, you know, I was still trying to be the cool kid, surrounding myself with people who um looked like they were cool, and of course, they were drinking alcohol, smoking pot. And the other side of that was I was also growing before I got before I moved to Wyoming during my college years in the Philippines, I started getting into um the occult. I started getting into anything and everything, right? Like I already mentioned, but I was I baptized myself, but at the same time, I was still uh entertaining ideas of the occult. I was still um I was playing with a tarot card. I had various it's so silly, man. Like I just had various trinkets that represented certain things for magic and and sorcery. Um and then I was also subscribed to Hinduism. Um and so I would I would meditate for you know, I'm talking about like Eastern meditation, if you will, where you're like reciting mantras in different languages. Um so what I what I'm trying to say is I was in the restaurant field, but also on my days off, I was pursuing communities that were kind of like more new age occult type stuff, uh witchy type things, and uh I ended up living in uh by accident, I ended up living in a trap house.
SPEAKER_05And because the room You're like, oh, do you have a room for it? Yeah, what were you guys doing in that other room? Oh, we're straight up crack in that other room.
SPEAKER_02Straight up. Yeah, they were doing some weird stuff that was was for sure in the realm of um demonic, uh, frankly, because uh this guy was selling something out his his his room. People would come in at 1, 2, 3 a.m., be banging on the door. Hey, is so-and-so here? I'd let him in, they'd go to his that person's room. And these people, these people were uh were whacked out for sure. But I didn't I didn't have I was still trying to be the cool kid, you know? Oh cool, yeah, come in. I was still trying to be the cool kid, so I'd let him in. They'd be doing some weird stuff, dude. Like um weird stuff, weird stuff. And then so that that guy got kicked out eventually, and then another guy came in, and he was he was super into like witchcraft and the occult things, and um I actually I actually believe that he was trying to um bewitch me, if you will. He was trying
Occult Practices And A Punk Rock Church
SPEAKER_02to uh yeah, bewitch me in in a lot of in a lot of ways. That's kind of a tangent, but this is kind of where I'm coming from. This is where I'm at, you know. I eventually find a church, and but I still didn't know. One of the coolest things is I got saved in a punk rock church. So all these punk rock musicians in their 20s, they all get saved at the same time. They're they're big community. Yeah, big community. 20, 20, 30, 40 kids, they all get saved at the same time. And they and then they start a church, and the worship was phenomenal, dude. Because all these punk rock musicians took their skill set and then turned it into praise and worship.
SPEAKER_05Let's go, dude. I love I grew up, I loved punk. I think I would have loved that church. I would have been skanking in aisles. I'd have been like, let's go.
SPEAKER_02It's it was wild. So that was that was something that was like still fit with the rebellious part that I was growing out of, but also there was Jesus in there. So I didn't know what was going on, but I was like, at least I can I at least I can feel a presence of peace once a week and and watch a really good show once a week.
SPEAKER_05Huh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You knew that there was something about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I I think that that is something that uh the people in the new age movements, that's what they're seeking. You just gotta get them, boys and girls, into a church and let them feel the presence of God, and they'll be like, oh, this is this is more than what I can fabricate on my own. This is greater than what was promised to me when I had to exchange this sacrifice for this you know, this occult practice, and it's free.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05So you were doing that. What was the plan for your life at this point? Still like to get married, have kids?
SPEAKER_02That's a good question. Um oh, this is this is when God met me. So I I I met a girl, and I I have no plans for my life at this point, but I meet a girl, and we we we vibe on a handful of things, right? And um actually we specifically we we vibed on a lot of the new age type of stuff. And so we started dating, but there was this growing conviction inside of me. You know, I was trying to I was trying to grow into a certain person that I was coming to that was coming to be that I was coming to discover through Christ. And so there was this something gnawing in me. And uh long story short, uh we date for a short time. Um, and then I break it off with her. Then about a week later, she says, she she says, Hey, can we meet up? And I said, Oh, this happens all the time. She's gonna try to get back with me. I'm like, I'm just so lost at this point, bro. Like, my mindset is just so lost. And so I was I was prepared the whole way, you know, guard up, like I'm gonna just be nice and suave, I'm gonna let her off easy, da-da-da. I don't want to do this. But then uh she said, Hey, hey, can we meet up in my car? I was like, all right, so I go in the car and um I get in her passengers, she's in the driver's seat, and she goes, Hey, I'm pregnant. Bro, time stopped in that moment. I had no response. I had no thoughts in my mind. I just had blank. You know when guys say they they have a what is that? What's that called, babe? Uh a nothing box, a nothing box. You know, like when guys get home from work, they want to get in their nothing box for 20 minutes and just Okay. Yeah, right. Bro, there's a greater level of a nothing box. I was in my nothing, like that moment when she was like, I'm pregnant. I was in a nothing box. I was like, I was like, oh crap. And I didn't say anything. And she said it again. She said, but but she said, Hey, I'm pregnant. And I was like, okay. And she's like, I'm serious. I was like, oh, okay, okay. And like I woke up, you know, I was like, and bro, the first thing I thought of in my mind, I was like, I'm just starting to get my life together. I can't do this, I can't have this responsibility on me. And growing up where I grew up, it was kind of like um the false mindset that was imprinted onto me for most of my life was once you have kids, it's over. It's over. But God met me, man. So I I I was like, all right. The man. The crazy thing was um I called, I called one of the people that was my childhood friend. And I called him, I said, hey, uh, so-and-so is pregnant. And he said, All right, you bet well, you better tell her get it handled then. Yeah, and I was like, Alright, I got you, I got you. I'm a get her. And that was my mindset coming in, and then bro, it's so despicable. It's so despicable. Oh. So I was like, hey, you know, um, so basically over a handful of months, I was trying to convince her to um kill my daughter. And uh, but she was like, I'm not doing that. Um she she said, like, I mean, basically, long story short, she was like, I'm not doing that. You don't have to be a part of any of this, but I'm not doing that. And growing up, how I grew up, I was not gonna not be a part of it if if if my child was gonna come into the world, you know what I mean? Like I grew up with with no father. And so I wasn't gonna,
Pregnancy Panic And A Pastor’s Response
SPEAKER_02there was something in inherently inside of me that was like, well, I'm not gonna stoop that low. You know, which is kind of, you know, like, which is which is whack when I say it out loud, because I'm like, you could kill her, but uh it's it's whack. Anyway, um yeah. But but God met me because I went I was in so much turmoil, um, just from that old mindset of my life is over, da-da-da. I was so scared. And thankfully, my second phone call, well, not my immediate second, but my second memorable, memorable phone call was my pastor at the time who said, you know, have you thought about repenting? But when I first called him, I said, Hey, let's meet up. Usually we meet up, you know, at a coffee shop or whatever, but I had so much shame on me that I was like, hey, you gotta come to my house. We gotta, we gotta talk in private. This is top secret stuff. And he came in, he's like, hey, what's up, man? And I said, um, he's so and so is pregnant. And he says, Whoa, that's such a blessing. And bro, there was something about that. It's like love has what man, I the the verse uh escapes me, but love has no law, right? Just the love that flowed out of this man when he said, Whoa, that's amazing, dude. That's such a blessing. I was like, wait, what? You're not disappointed in me? You're not X, Y, and Z? He's like, no, children are such a blessing, dude. And it it allowed me to start I don't it it caused me to like drop my guard about a certain thing about my whole life is over. And so because of his because of his words, because of his words, his encouragement, his edification, I started praying. I started truly seeking my father's face, my heavenly father's face. And uh, but I was still I was still trying to be, I was like, Lord, it basically came out of this. I said, Lord, I've never had a father. How am I supposed to father this this child? You have to be my father, and if you father me, I'll father this child and I'll I'll dedicate her to you. And I was reading um 1 Samuel at the time, and there and those two things kept sticking out because I was like, I want to hear from God. And you know, that's the place wherein uh Eli's like, hey, you know, tell him I'm here, uh, your your servant is listening. So I was praying that I kept just repeating that. Uh, your servant is listening, your servant is listening. And then also uh that Samuel's mother consecrated him to the Lord, and I I I just had that tiny little concept of what that was. And I said, if you help me, Lord, I'll do that. Wow, and bro, I'm the best daddy in the world.
SPEAKER_05Let's go. That's awesome. So uh what what when did what's her name? I know I've met her, I forget her name.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Sonia.
SPEAKER_05Sonia. So she came around.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And you were all you were like, all right, I'm in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. All right, I'm in, and um this is uh this this seems like a tangent that's completely related because it's supernatural. Remember how I was like, hey, I was trying to convince her mom that to kill her, basically, right?
SPEAKER_05Terminate the argument.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had invited death into her life. I allowed, I gave death permission to take her by by saying that, by engaging in that conversation. And when my daughter was born, she was born healthy, but when she was six months old, five to six months old, she had a sudden turn in her health, wherein literally she um she became allergic to everything. And the allergy um showed itself. She be she she became allergic to everything. She couldn't even drink breast milk, and she couldn't eat anything, anything, anything, anything. And 99% of her skin and her body broke out in severe rashes.
SPEAKER_05Mercy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Severe. We had to, you know how you swaddle a baby, make him look like a burrito?
SPEAKER_05Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02We had to swaddle her, but extra, extra tight, like a strait jacket, so that she couldn't break free and scratch her face off.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_02And so I had invited this death into her life, and it was trying to take her. And she was at the NICU two to three times. Um, multiple surgeries. Um, they're trying to give her all sorts of stereo, they were trying to give her medicine for adults that was designed for that, had not even been tested on children. They're like, this is so bad. We need you to take this. But her mother was was so had a level of faith that is that's unreal because she was like, no, I'm not giving my daughter any of that stuff. I know what that does. That's gonna mess her up even more. It's gonna remove the symptoms, but it's not gonna remove the root issue. And so she did her own homework, and and basically from on the natural side of things, she she found out that the gut is um the microbiome in your gut, uh governs a whole lot in your body. And she basically cleansed my daughter's gut, rebuilt the microbiome, and rebuilt a healthy microbiome inside her gut, which took um probably a year and a half. But they had given her enough uh XYZ medicine that when they took her off that medicine, which is super powerful medicine, my daughter started withdrawing from the medicine.
Baby Sonia’s Health Crisis And Healing
SPEAKER_02And so it it made all the rashes and all the throwing up and all this stuff, all the symptoms worse, like significantly worse, bro. Like 10 times worse for a season. But then, boom, out of nowhere, just started clearing up. And through that season, there I believed that God was restoring something in the realm of me standing up for my daughter and saying, I'm gonna show up for you. And I remember just going to work, going to the hospital, going to work, going to the hospital, going to work, going to the hospital. And um my daughter has huge scars from from that season of her life that are probably gonna be there unless the Lord heals them off. But I'm like, now I'm like, hey, baby, look at those scars. Those are the times when the Lord saved you, He gave you, He gave you life. And so now, if anybody asks her about them, she can be like, check this out. God is real. Come on.
SPEAKER_05Wow. Yeah. Were you did you were you feeling like super guilty when this was going on? Or like I put this on her?
SPEAKER_02No. You know what's crazy? I was like, if she dies, I'm good to go. I got another free pass.
SPEAKER_05Oh no.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So it's like there's two things pulling. There was my nate there was my sin nature, if you will. That's that I still want to live for myself. This is a responsibility that I want because I want to do things a certain way. And then God was redeeming me as well in that moment. He was fighting for me. He was he was training me up in a certain way.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Mercy. Isn't God so good? Oh, he loves us, man. He's a good dad. Indeed. So then, um, what happened after that? You were uh I see you looking at Lorraine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she's getting emotional, I think. Yeah, she nodded, yes. Because she she loves he loves Sonia so much. Lorraine has known Sonia since Sonia was three. And um Yeah, and Sonia recovered from all that when she was two. So it's it's all very fresh, you know. Like Lorraine was not present for that time, but um she's a great mama. She's heard all about it and all that stuff, but she was not present for that time, and it was it was definitely like a yeah, it was crazy. It was a crazy time.
SPEAKER_05So then you're you're growing, you're kind of committed to to the Lord in a way, but you're battling stuff.
SPEAKER_02Um, what happened next my daughter was born. Um I was in the restaurant industry, COVID happened. I was in the restaurant industry all through that. And then I she Lorraine is pointing to herself. She said Lorraine happened. I met Lorraine actually in the middle of COVID. We met, um, was it 2020, 2019? 2020, during COVID at a bonfire in my backyard. My down I lived in a duplex. I lived upstairs with a roommate, and then there were two people that lived downstairs, and one of those people was Lorraine's friend. And we had a rule in the duplex because we had a shared yard, that if there was a backyard party or a bonfire, everyone was, you know, if you lived upstairs, you were invited. If you lived downstairs, you were invited. So she was having a bonfire, she invited Lorraine. I was by default invited to that bonfire. I came out and uh met Lorraine. We had a great conversation. Um, we had a great conversation just about uh actually my faith and or not my faith, but my testimony. How how you know practically everything?
SPEAKER_05Late 2020 or early 2020? June.
SPEAKER_02June.
SPEAKER_05So this had to be. Was Lorraine Lorraine, were you free? Can she hear me? I was she can hear you.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I was she was.
SPEAKER_05I think she had just gotten this was 2021.
SPEAKER_04It was almost a year of my separation.
SPEAKER_02She said it had almost been a year of her separation.
SPEAKER_05But then this had to at least have been 2021 because 2020, Lorraine and I met on the Bible studies. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So then she's got pretty we went up to uh I met I uh Rich, I met you December 2020. I met Manalo June 2020, but he's gotta finish the story.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. My bad, Lorraine.
SPEAKER_04That's not well.
SPEAKER_02The thing is, we meet that one time. Okay. We meet one time, we have a great conversation at this bonfire. She um she was a wild girl a little bit back. Yeah, she she she told me she had she had bought a bus, she was gutting it out, but she's gonna travel cross-country with it. I was like, whoa, dude, that's amazing. That's what I want to do. You got kind of, kind of.
SPEAKER_05You got our hippies, bro.
SPEAKER_02And that, I mean, that was like hook line and sing for you. I was like, that's what I want to do, whatever. Uh, but we had met that one time, and then two years later, we meet again. So we no, you know, nothing came of it. I was like, okay, that's cool, gonna go to bed now, gonna go back to my life. Redhaired
Meeting Lorraine And Moving Fast
SPEAKER_02lady's cool. Yeah, she was cool, she was kind of cute, she was kind of funny. Um, I two years later, so my daughter's well, um, I don't know how old at this point, but I yeah, three. She's she's three at this point.
SPEAKER_03And that period of time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so there was a kid will do. You grow up pretty quick when you take it. Yeah, truly. You you you grow pretty yeah. Well, here's another thing. So I actually decided, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna join the military. So I don't just like the just yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_00Just like the just like the the the the horse, you know, breaking a horse, riding it north.
SPEAKER_05You saw an Air Force commercial and you're like, I'm all in. No, practically, bro, practically. Those ads work.
SPEAKER_02And so what I I knew it, but I wouldn't admit it is I was running away from responsibility. I was like, I'm gonna take up this higher, I'm gonna take up this call, which is in everyone's eyes, they'll say thank you. Bro, when you're wearing it where you're in, when you are in uniform, people look at you like you're a superhero. And I was like, Yes, this is a high calling. I finally have everyone's respect. So everyone's telling me congratulations before I get sent off to boot camp. Congratulations, thank you for what you're doing. From everybody, from everybody. And I said, Yes, all right. I get shipped off to boot camp. Um, I'm growing in the Lord. Uh I'm writing letters to my daughter. Uh I kind of I that was a that was a training time too, because the Lord was the Lord was teaching me things that he's starting to reveal into me now in practice. But also I know he's there are things that I learned in my short time in the Navy that are still gonna play out in the years to come. Um, but long story short, I go to boot camp and then I go to A school, which is where you learn your job. And then, oh, I was in the reserve, by the way. So I was in the reserve, and then I come home. Um, because of my uh family category or situation, I was not uh eligible to go into active duty. So the recruiter said, hey, go into the reserve, and there's a back door you could get into active duty from there. I can't, I can't let you in through the front door, so to speak. So I go into the reserve, go to boot camp, go to A school, and uh I come home and there's uh there's a God is so gracious. There's a I don't know if it's with all branches, but in the Navy Reserve, there is a there's a rule where if you don't show up, you get kicked out. I think in, yeah, so you get kicked out. So it's if you're in active duty,
Joining The Navy To Run Away
SPEAKER_02then they're not gonna kick you out like that. They're gonna they're gonna milk that contract. Like they're like you signed up, you're gonna, you're gonna complete this contract. We don't care if you're cleaning bathrooms for six years, you're gonna stay in the Navy. You could be as, you know, as hectic as you want, you're gonna be in the Navy for six more years. But I just stopped showing up. Uh Chief kept calling me. He said, Hey, uh, can't stop you from doing this, but you sure you want to do this? Yes, Chief. Call me again a month later. Hey, you just got um, it's funny, I got promoted. I got anyway, I got a promotion, even though I was um anyway, that's another story. Um so he said, Hey, you got you got uh five more unexcused absences. You sure you want to keep doing this? Yes, chief. All right. Month later, hey, you just you know, up until they just stopped calling me, eventually sent me paperwork. Hey, because of these amount of unexcused absences, we're gonna um process you for administrative separation. If you do not reply in 30 days, we're gonna we're just gonna process it without even without you having a say about it. And I was like, good to go. Um so I got I got into the Navy, got myself kicked out because because God was like, hey, you're running away from something. You you tr you think you're charging into battle, but I called you to a battle here. I called you to to to win hearts and minds here. I I called you to stand up for your family here, not stand up for, you know, not I called you to fight an enemy here, not out there. And uh that's kind of the long, the the short story of it. And then I get home, and then uh I say, Lord, I'm so done chasing women. Just you just you just give me a woman and I'll and I'll I'll just do it your way. And my prayer was, Lord, um, bring me a woman I can pursue the way you want me to pursue them. And then within literally a like a day or two, Lorraine popped up in my mind out of nowhere. I had not thought about this girl for years. She popped up in my mind, and I go, I wonder how that girl Lorraine is doing. And so I reach out to my my neighbor and I said, Hey, I remember that girl Lorraine. I remember she was pretty funny and she was kind of cute. Is she single? And as the story goes, that friend was like, Man, I'm not even gonna, I'm not even gonna send this to her. She ain't got time for that. But then there was a still small voice in her mind, in her heart, that said, you know what? That's actually Lorraine's decision to make. So she sends it over. And around the same time, as the story goes, Lorraine was praying this prayer. Lord, I wish, I I pray that you would, excuse me, I pray that you would send me a man who would pursue me the way, the way that um you would pursue me. That's crazy. God is real.
SPEAKER_03Amen.
SPEAKER_02So I called her, and uh I left her a voicemail. Then she called me back, and then I said, Hey. And then um, so my mindset was this this must have been the Holy Spirit, this must have been God. I said, Where's the most boring place I can think of so I can just talk to this girl, and there'd be no frills, no distractions. I could just get to know this girl and we could just talk. So on our first date, I took her to the public museum. Come to find out she hates museums.
SPEAKER_05It's perfect. So she's just gonna be focused on you.
SPEAKER_02That's what happened. That's what happened. And our and our date was six hours long. We just talked the whole time and then grabbed coffee, went to the museum, grabbed coffee afterwards. Um, and then practically saw each other every day up until we got married four months later.
SPEAKER_05Four months later.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05When she started talking about freedom or talking about Jesus, and I think her podcast was out at this point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I actually listened to it.
SPEAKER_05What did you think when you started hearing this story? Like, were you thinking, like, oh, they're just kind of extra with this, or were you like, maybe there's something I don't understand about what she's saying?
SPEAKER_02It was definitely closer to the not understanding. Can you give me a uh honey candy thing? Thank you for that. Yeah. Um, yeah, there it was for sure. I so the thing about me is like when I find something that like there, I I b especially in in the realm of God, I know or before I knew that there was I knew that there was something out there that I needed to find. There was somebody calling me, so to speak, to come home. And I was just trying to find my way home. And so whenever anybody talked about this, which I believe. I believe everyone has this call in their heart. When whenever somebody talks about specifically about God and, you know, especially the freedom they find in God and the in the peace and the power and the resilience and the endurance and the love, I'm all for it. I will listen to anybody. Um but back then you could sway me either which way, but now I I I have a I I have a foundation, I know the truth. So when I talk to someone, now I get to call them home instead of somebody else calling me home. But when she was talking about it, I was like, cool. Oh, you you know what? Actually, this will answer your question. On our third date, we were at Lorraine's uh apartment uh worshiping. And um, well, we weren't specifically worshiping, we were we were hanging out, we were sharing music, and you know, I was like, oh, this is one of my favorite songs, listen to this. What about this, this? And eventually some of the songs ended up being worship songs. And there was this one song that we were singing together, and so up until this point, when I was when I prayed, I felt the presence of something. Now I know it to be the Holy Spirit. I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit kind of become a bubble around me, kind of like a force field. So I became bubble boy, you know, like when I when I'm when I'm in the secret place. And when when Lorraine and I were worshiping together, the bubble, we were sitting right next to each other, shoulder to shoulder, and the bubble, it expanded, and she was in the bubble too. And I was like, whoa, how'd you get in here? Like, this is my spot. Like, you can't be in here. This is my secret place. And that was my confirmation that um there was something that God was working uh between us in a sense that um there was something very strong. Like it, I truly believe that I had a decision to pursue her or not. And Lorraine actually feels the same way. She thinks the same way that she had a decision if she wanted to pursue or not, or you know, receive that gift. But I knew that God was working between us, that he was doing something between us. And I was like, oh, it's over. Like, I'm gonna marry her. And so I started moving very quickly, uh, in the sense of like, hey, Holy Spirit told me to ask you your ring size. And she was like, Holy Spirit would have told me if that was the case. And I was like, all right, whatever. And she loves this story. She's smiling right now. I told her that two to three days later, one of her friends invites her to uh a bar. The friend had just broken up with their boyfriend, wanted some emotional support. Hey, come out to the bar with me. Lauren's like, okay. And they go to this bar, and uh the friend goes, Hey, let me introduce you to a friend. He's got a booth set up over there. And lo and behold, this friend has a booth set up. He's a ring maker. And she she's looking at all these things. Um, and then the guy says, Do you know your ring size? And she's like, nope, I don't. Because in the back of her mind, she's got this thing of she's not gonna tell me her ring size, because whatever, she's not ready for that. But then the ringmaker's like, well, crazy enough, I'm a ringmaker, so I can size your I can size your finger right now, size of her finger. The next day she comes and meets up with me and says, Um, hey, my ring size is this. And I go, Oh, really? How'd you know that? And she goes, I don't want to talk about it. And I go, All right, whatever. And uh I get in contact with that ringmaker, I get our rings made, and then we got married.
SPEAKER_05And then it happily ever after, right? Roll credits. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. So Lorraine and Serena are very close friends. And they're they're the type of people that you're like, hey, I'm dating this guy, I need you to meet him to see if he's legit. So, you know, like you trust their advice, is what I'm trying to say. And so Lorraine had me meet them. Um I think we must have had we must have, I don't even know if we got coffee, but like we just sat down in their in their house and hung out for a short, short minute, and they shared their testimony of how they were they dated. And Jonathan was telling me a story of how they dated through basically uh online Bible study, and uh the the person leading the Bible study, maybe, uh, was Holy Spirit was talking to that person about Jonathan and Serena pairing up or being a good match. And at the same time, I think neither of them were it was it was not clicking for either of them. Jonathan was like, what are you talking about? She was like, What are you talking about? And this person was like Eddie. Eddie was like, hey, do you see it yet? Like, anyway, I forgot how how the story podcast on that story. Oh, really? I forgot.
SPEAKER_04So not to mix it up.
SPEAKER_02I forgot how the story goes specifically, but the way I interpreted it in my mind is Holy Spirit was talking to Eddie, Holy Spirit was talking to Serena, and Holy Spirit was talking to uh uh Bradshaw. And then I said, Whoa, Holy Spirit is not just a concept, Holy Spirit is a person. This person can call, you know, metaphorically, this person called that person and also called that person, also called that person. There's a true interaction. Like I can't interact with a concept, I can interact with a person though, and Holy Spirit is a person. And so there was something inside of me that said, Whoa, Holy Spirit is a person. And that actually unlocked me talking to Holy Spirit more and listening for Holy Spirit. And that's when I heard from Holy Spirit ask Lorraine her ring size, and then I, you know, fast forward to what I just shared with you. That's it.
SPEAKER_05So tell me about this. We'll I think we'll end part one coming up here. Yeah. This this stepfather thing that you were telling me. Yeah. So Lorraine has a um if you haven't heard Lorraine's uh episode, what number is it, Lorraine? Do you know? Great question.
SPEAKER_0440 something.
SPEAKER_05It's in the 40s, so it's been some time. We're on episode two, I don't even know, 60 something, two fifty something. Yeah. So it's been some time since that one's been out, but you have to listen to it. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Lorraine Lorraine has quite a story specifically regarding her childhood. And basically, uh stepfather um uh hurt her in a lot of ways. And um I had learned that over the over the course of dating her. And bro, it's it's like it's just a lot of things in the realm of man, how do I talk about it? But anyway, there I I needed to forgive him because Lorraine had forgiven him, but I needed to forgive him. And I think we had we had gotten married already, or we were about to be married, and they come into town. Lorraine's mom and her stepdad come into town, and I gotta shake this gate, I gotta sh shake this guy's hand, you know. I gotta look him in the eye. I gotta love him because I'm a good Christian boy now. You know what I mean? Like I gotta, I gotta, I gotta love this person, and yet there's uh there are facts about this man's history that I don't agree with. But also Jesus loves him.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02And so we're at church praising and worshiping. We sit through the whole service. And at this point, I'm like, I'm really, I'm really like into Jesus, I'll speak. You know, so I'm not just like you, I'm not just daydreaming during church. I'm like, I'm in there. I'm I'm actively trying to grow. But anyway, the whole church church service happens. Um and at the end. Uh most churches, at least that I'm familiar with, there's a there's a call to salvation at the end. You know, if if you've not received Jesus as Lord, you know, now's the time, or now we'll give you a chance. Yeah, altar call.
SPEAKER_06Something like that.
SPEAKER_02Altar call, yeah. And uh at that church that we were going to at the time, um, you would pray the prayer, like whatever, in your seat,
Forgiving A Stepfather Through God’s Love
SPEAKER_02standing up, whatever, you know, uh, Lord Jesus, or you know, how the prayer goes. But anyway, the whole congregation says it. And but I was because this man was next to me, or you know, three or four seats over, I was just so emotionally charged in that moment that I was like, Lord, I need all of you right now. I'm about to re-up on my salvation. I need more salvation. Like, give me more of that. Like, I need more, I need more. I need a recharge on my salvation. And so I was just, I just lifted my hands, looked up to the sky, had my eyes closed. And as the as the people were saying the prayer, I thought I was saying the prayer too, but I was yelling the prayer. I was, I was like Navy boot camp yelling the prayer. I was like, Father God, like I was yelling the prayer, and meanwhile, I was getting a vi I what can whatever kind of verbiage you want to use. I was getting a visual, I was receiving a vision, I had a spiritual experience of golden honey coming down on me like a waterfall and like falling on me and completely covering me, and just completely covering me, and then with just the right enough weight, like a good hug or a snug blanket, it just rested on me and brought a level of like comfort upon me. And what I was what I had shared with you earlier, it's as if I got it's almost like I re-upped on the forgiveness. Like I received something. God's like, you don't have enough forgiveness in your heart to forgive this man. I'm gonna give you more forgiveness. And so somehow, without words, without any, without me thinking about it, it happened in a slip split second, and all I could see in my mind's eye was, you know, the honey waterfall. But it's like God was saying, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you an experience of greater forgiveness. I'm gonna let you feel the effects of me forgiving you for your sins to a greater degree, that your cup, your cup is now overflowing, that you can't even handle all this forgiveness. It gotta flow out somewhere. And and there you go. Let it flow out onto that man right there. And then bro, I gave him the biggest hug after. Like, I love that man. I I love that man. And I actually sat down with him. So from that moment up until you know, from that moment, fast forward three years, I sat with him at a McDonald's, and as and I was telling him, I was talking to him about forgiveness, and I was telling him certain things. But I I don't I just love that man so much that I want him to experience the forgiveness that is available to him just the same way that I experienced a greater encounter of the consequences of receiving forgiveness. I don't even know if that makes sense. I was completely open to receiving more forgiveness, that it changed me. And I want him to experience that, and I want him to receive it. And I told him, like, I said, I want to get to know you. I want to know the man. Like, I don't care about what you did, bro. Like, I don't care. Like, if I didn't forgive you, I wouldn't be sitting in this McDonald's talking to you for a half hour trying to get to know you. That's not humanly possible. I can't keep up this charade for this long if I truly didn't forgive you. And I and I called him the other day, left him a voicemail. And um I'm like, I said, I love you so much. I finally got up the courage to call you, but I hope you're doing well. And uh I'll talk to you when I talk to you, man. So good. That's power, dude. That's authority. That's the that's the that's the real quick, that is what I was seeking for in the sense of, you know, remember how I said when I entered a room, I tried to size up everyone to show them that I was in charge. I was trying to be above everybody. I was trying to be the tough guy to let them to let them know who was what was up. But in the upside down world, in the kingdom of heaven, you just give more. You just forgive somebody and you go, I love you so much. I couldn't, this is not humanly possible for me to love you like this. But there's a power of God in me that just overwhelms me that it gotta go somewhere and it's gonna go to you. And it's called love.
SPEAKER_05I remember talking with Lorraine when she when you guys were dating. Oh yeah. And she's like, yeah, like he's open to learning about freedom. He's open to like she's just like, he's a great guy. He's got a daughter, but he's open.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05And as I, you know, I met you, I've met you before, I've talked to you on the phone. I've just seen the sincerity of you going after this thing, just receiving everything that he has for you. And like as I think about this kid who was looking for love, going across the world, going back and forth. Like, let's say you could catch up with this kid, let's say, after he's baptized himself three times. With what you know now, with what you kind of know about what the gospel is, freedom from sin, the forgiveness, everything that's already been given to you. What would you say to this kid? What would you say? Put your arm around him.
SPEAKER_01Good job. Yeah, good job. Keep going. You're gonna figure it out. Good job. Good job.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, just encouraging him.
SPEAKER_01Yup, that's it. That's it. Just saying, hey, keep going. You got this, you got this. I see you. Go, come on, go. Good job. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05God loves you, man. Straight up. We're gonna have to do another part of this. I want to hear about the married life. I want to hear about the further freedom. But man, I want to thank you for being vulnerable and sharing. Like, I don't know you at all. I know, I mean, I know I like you when I met you. I'm like, that dude's so cool. Jonathan and I were talking about you. But hearing this backstory, it just what a beautiful and rich experience that God has brought you through, and and he's just loved you. So, man, thank you so much for sharing with us. And um, yeah, he's not finished with the story, but it's a good story so far, right?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. It's so good. Get gooder and gooder.
SPEAKER_06Amen, bro. Come on, come on,