#260 Manalo pt 2: How A New Marriage Healed Through Surrender

Two old insecurities collide and turn a new marriage into a “thunderstorm,” until surrender and daily time with God start rewiring how love and safety work. We talk through the shift from fixing symptoms to naming core lies, practicing forgiveness, and learning Sabbath rest that changes the atmosphere at home.
• getting married fast after sensing God’s leading
• immediate differences in backgrounds, expectations, and responsibilities
• the stress of parenting, a new dog, and competing rhythms at home
• identifying childhood core lies like “I’m not good enough” and “I’m not safe”
• the insecurity loop of striving, control, and feeling unseen
• trying books, tactics, and planning while missing the root
• seeking first the kingdom and honoring a spouse through daily Scripture
• using the Bible as a neutral space for connection
• breaking porn and other habits by going under the hood
• honoring Sabbath to break performance and fear of man
• surrendering control and seeing peace and healing follow
• practical counsel for newlyweds who feel stuck

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Transcript

Why Transformation Stories Matter

SPEAKER_03 1:44

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.

A Fast Marriage Built On Faith

SPEAKER_02 2:13

And if you have a foundation of an insecurity, um, let's say a childhood childhood core lie, a core belief from your childhood, mine was I'm not good enough. Uh Lorraine's consequently is uh I'm not safe. And so that insecurity of I'm not good enough would create a flush pattern of striving. Go, go, go, go. Do more work, do more work. Um, try to achieve more, try to do more. And when you do that, you're not being present. And so that flush pattern would interact with Lorraine's insecurity of saying, my husband is not even paying attention to me. He's not even interested in our marriage because he's just trying to conquer the world. And so her lie of I'm not safe would uh activate, if you will, and it would create a flush pattern in her. And then she would, I don't know what she would do at the time. She would um try to, oh, she would try to uh command the situation. She's like, Well, my husband's not gonna fulfill me in these ways. I gotta, I gotta take the lead and start fulfilling my my needs, my security, and that would interact with my insecurity and so and say, Oh, I'm not a good husband, I'm not good enough. And so this loop would create itself. And it was a a thunderstorm.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yo, welcome to the Death of Life podcast. My name is Richard Young, and back again is my guest Manolo, and uh we got quite a story last time, but he's he's telling me that there's more, and so uh I'm looking forward to hearing what life in freedom is like now. So uh this is Manolo's part two. Buckle up and strap in. Uh, love y'all, appreciate y'all. Manolo, what's up? Good to see you. Good to see you, bro. Yeah, okay. So we ended last time and it wasn't too long ago, and kind of a wild story. Didn't really know you too well, hurt a lot. You got this forgiveness. Um what year did you get married? You and Lorraine? That's a great question. Oh no. 2022, I think. She's singling 2022. Oh, is she sitting in the room again? She is. She's ready to feel free to just pop in, Lorraine, if you have something. Um, so you got married in 2022, and was it in your mind where you was like, yeah, she's this is just good. This is a good idea. Let's see what happened. Like, what was the mindset going into marriage?

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Um, part of it, I was just I was so stoked because I it was it was uh I had heard from the Lord. I'm like, wow, he's even more real than I thought. Like I heard from him. Uh, in the sense that I was praying for a woman to pursue, and her prayer at practically the same time was for a man to pursue her the way God would. And and then hearing um our our good friends, their story of Holy Spirit, I'm like, oh, I'm ready for this. I'm kind of I'm gonna tell you something. I jump into things pretty quick in this season of life. I'm actually learning to move at of a more of a stride than a strive. That's a word, right? Come on.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Okay, all right. So you you were just like, let's go. Kind of like that line from uh when Harry met Sally, and maybe you've never seen this movie, but movie he says when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

That's cool. Yeah, that that actually sums it up really good. Because we I had I met her and she just the way she worshiped, because you know, from the last episode, I was telling you about how we worshiped together, and I felt the presence of Holy Spirit kind of give give the both of us uh space to be in the same bubble. And there was something about the way that she worshipped that I was like, wow, this woman has faith that I haven't seen or I don't see too common. And that was like very attractive to me in that way. And so I say that to the I wanted to get started in the sense that I wanted to move where God was pointing me and I believe us. And I was like, let's do it. So four months later, after our first date, we got married basically. We invited who we could invite. We said, Hey, we're getting two week, two-week invitation. Hey, we're getting married in two weeks. Uh, it's gonna be on a Thursday. Would love to see you there, but if you can't make it, I get it. It's gonna be at the beach, meet you at the parking lot. And we had a great beach.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

We got married on the beach. It was this is a cool story. It was raining like three days straight practically. And then on the fourth day, which was our wedding day, the skies cleared up. And you probably experienced this living in Hawaii, like when it storms, when it finally clears up, the sky is beautiful, man. Because you got those big clouds moving out the way, um, the sunset, the sunrise, all that is beautiful. So our wedding, our wedding photos are incredible because of that storm.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

That's awesome. So then, and so like, and they live together happily ever after, roll credits like that. Was it, huh? This is just perfect, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah, yeah. That was it. So we can end the podcast now.

Reality Hits With New Responsibilities

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Thanks for coming on, Manolo. No, man, how soon, you know, I was talking, I was talking about how um so much of the time when we're dating, what we really enjoy about the other person is that they're like us. So, like we we have the same, we have the similar background and we have the same values, and we have this, and it's all in common. So you're looking at someone and you're just like, they're just like me, they're perfect. And then life comes along, and it's like, oh, they're not like me in this way, and they don't have my background in this way, and they don't even think like how soon were differences uh made uh like seen? How how soon were you like, oh we've got some real differences here?

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Basically immediately, because this is what practically immediately, right? We had well, I'll tell you, Lorraine's side of the story was is pretty legit, all right. She I had a I have a daughter, we have a daughter, and and then also I had just adopted a dog at the time. And I'm not I I didn't I grew up with dogs, but I've never been responsible for a dog myself. So apart from figuring out my life as a single dad, getting this new freedom, you know, kind of learning the the different way, the different ways that God wants me to live as opposed to how I used to live. And then having this. So Lorraine took on a responsibility of having a daughter on the spot, having a dog to take care of on the spot, and then having a husband um to take care of as well.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

And it was um what were your expectations coming in?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, that's I'm glad you asked that. So we we both come from the restaurant industry. And at the time, um, I was out of the restaurant and food world, but she was she was she was still she was chefing in that moment or when we first got married. And so when I got married, I was like, oh man, she's gonna be so organized. We're gonna, our run is gonna, our house is gonna run like a restaurant, like it's gonna be boom, boom, boom. It's gonna be so efficient. I like my love language is like schedules, and Lorraine's love language is flop, flop, frolicking in the fields. Like, and so one of those, one of when those two worlds clashed, on top of the brand new responsibilities we both now had, um, being newlyweds, having a brand new dog, um, co-parenting as well. And it just clashed. My expectations were our house is gonna be a well-oiled machine. We're gonna just be so successful. We are going to be pillars in the church. Um, I mean, you may you name it. All the good reasons to get married.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

So this dog, so I was just talking to someone who's doing premarital counseling with a couple who are having a tough time because they both have dogs. One is a big dog and one is a little dog, and big dog is like not friendly, and the little dog will just get eaten up by this big dog, and they're trying to figure out like what they're gonna do. And it feels like that's kind of like a real thing. Like the animals, like they end up being a little bit of a sticking point, and that's tough because you wouldn't want that to be like there's this human that you're gonna spend the rest of your life with, and they're this animal that it's got, you know, if you've had them for a little while, maybe eight to ten more years, but you love them. That can be that can be tough. Was it tough for you, or were you like, I wish I never would have bought this stupid animal?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Um well, the thing is, I I was glad to have it. I just didn't know how much it took to take care of a dog. I was like, this is gonna be cool. It's gonna be like my sidekick. And mind you, when I when I decided to get it, I was single.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

But within a four-month time period, I got married. And so I was like, I'm gonna go on hikes with this dog. This dog's gonna be my best friend. We're gonna run on a strict schedule, and then you know, everything I shared about schedules, schedules, and then Lorraine's like, hey, this this dog needs to be walked more. Hey, this dog needs to be brushed more. Hey, this dog uh needs more attention. Hey, this dog needs vaccines. Hey, this dog kind of dog is it? German is a German shepherd.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

I knew you were gonna say German Shepherd. They take so much maintenance because they're they're worker dogs, and if they get bored, like they can be dangerous if they're bored. And so you gotta have a big yard, you have to have stuff for them to do, or else they'll uh they'll attack your people in your neighborhood and you're getting sued.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

We had no yard. Oh no. Um, Florian's pointing to me. I don't think the dog attacked anyone, but um, we had no yard, and luckily this dog is actually very well trained. My was my brother's dog, and uh, they have at the time they're they had three kids under three or under four, and I was looking to adopt a dog anyway. I was like, hey, I'll take your dog. But long story short, it was just I didn't know how much it it was gonna go into owning a dog. And Lorraine lived with dogs, had taken care of dogs for most of her life, so she knew all the ins and outs.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

And I'm like, And I did not recommend it before.

The Dog Problem And Daily Friction

SPEAKER_02 14:34

And now she made she's I don't know if you heard her, she was like, and I recommended against the guy told so and so I was um yeah, I and this is where it really sets in. She was she literally, she actually knew better, right? She knew how to take care of a dog. Here I am. And then now all these insecurities start popping up of like, please stop telling me what to do. Please stop telling me what to do. And then also we had different childhoods. I grew up in a in a very from a like a very quiet setting. I was I was kind of like uh independent sports, right? Like I didn't play team sports, I was usually playing by myself all the time. And Lorraine grew up in a more like louder community, community-driven, louder household. And so there would be times that I would just be hanging out, chilling, being quiet. And she's like, What? Are you mad at me again? And I'm like, I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm trying to relax over here. And then and then that would attack my own um at the time, my identity of like, wow, I'm I I don't I'm not a good husband. I don't know how to do this. Um, I'm being talked down to. And you know, there there's this. I recently learned like there's there's a cycle when two insecurities are interacting. And if you have a foundation of an insecurity, um, let's say a child could childhood core lie, a core belief from your childhood. Mine was I'm not good enough. Uh Lorraine's consequently is uh I'm not safe. And so that insecurity of I'm not good enough would create a flush pattern of striving. Go, go, go, go, do more work, do more work, um, try to achieve more, try to do more. And when you do that, you're not being present. And so that flush pattern would interact with Lorraine's insecurity of saying, my husband is not even paying attention to me. He's not even interested in our marriage because he's just trying to conquer the world. And so her lie of I'm not safe would uh activate, if you will, and it would create a flush pattern in her. And then she would, I don't know what she would do at the time. She would um try to, oh, she would try to uh command the situation. She's like, Well, my husband's not gonna fulfill me in these ways. I gotta, I gotta take the lead and start fulfilling my needs, my security. And that would interact with my insecurity and so and say, Oh, I'm not a good husband. I'm not good enough. And so this loop would create itself. And it was a a thunderstorm. It was a wild storm for like three years. We're going on, we're I was telling you earlier, we're about to be four years married in September. And three out of those going on four years, we were in that crazy loop.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

So how did you handle it? What did you like? What were your strategies when you were in that loop?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

I had no strategy.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

You're just like, let me get at like let me escape if it gets too much, let me because you have this backdrop of like freedom. Like there's this idea in the background, like there's freedom here. Like freedom, but it was hard to like you tell me what was what was going on in the back of your mind, like what were you like? I want to live like this.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

That's a really cool question. I've never tried, I've never I never thought about the freedom background, but we were doing our best to to say, hey, it's not supposed to be this way. We gotta figure out we gotta read more books. We gotta read more marriage books. We gotta do more spontaneous things. We were we were trying to uh attack the symptom.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

We asked chat.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Wait, oh we asked chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yes, yes, but I'll ask Chat GPT. How can I love my wife? She's this type of personality. What can I do?

SPEAKER_03 18:55

What did it say?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Spontaneous?

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah, she was like, Because she's a spontaneous, fun-loving person, you can plan dates and take the lead with planning dates so that she has more uh freedom to be spontaneous. If you're doing the planning, she can be spontaneous. I'm like, great. That's a good start. And so you know that's solid. That yeah, it was helpful.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

It actually was helpful.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

It was helpful. It it was just it was not the root, it was just the fruit.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Yeah, can you hear I can hear her whispering? You know what you said something earlier. You said this is not supposed to be like this, and that idea. My question is, why isn't supposed why isn't it supposed to be like this? Like if you have two people from two different backgrounds who show up with two different ideas and have two different expectations, like this is the recipe for what happened.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, that's good. I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yeah, it's not like man, like we are from the same small town in Indiana with the same values, the same this, we like the same foods. No, you're showing up with a whole bunch of different stuff with crazy different backgrounds. Lorraine was married, you have a kid, all of these different things, and then you're like, oh, it isn't going perfectly. Why not? Well, because you've had to you had to figure some stuff out. Is that all right? And that's the thing. People don't, yeah, they don't expect they're like, no, it's not all right. It needs to be perfect right now. Well, you gotta learn, and like so much of the stuff that you care about, like maybe she doesn't, maybe the stuff she cares about, you don't. And so you have to figure out like, how can I love during like how can I lay my life down? All these things, but like I said, I don't think it's strange. Like, nothing in my marriage that has happened in my marriage has been strange. It's all been because either I was selfish and so then it produced this, or I was self-centered, and then it produced this, or like, or she was like she was touching me in a way that all I'm was getting triggered, and so then it resulted like this. None of it has been like out of thin air. Like there's nothing that I never saw. Like, no, there's no thin air. There's no, you're not doing life in a vacuum. You have backgrounds, you have ideas, you have things that you hold dear, and then you bring a whole other person in with a different background, different things they hold dear. That's it's a recipe for whatever happens. But then if you don't know that, you start getting down on yourself and you're saying, What's wrong with me? And that's called shame. And then you're identifying with brokenness rather than I just seeing, like, hey, this is a perfect opportunity for me to learn and for me to grow and for me to love my wife.

Fixing Symptoms Instead Of Roots

SPEAKER_02 22:06

You know what I'm saying? You hit it spot on. Lorena's nodding, so you get the affirmative. But well, the crazy thing is people told us that we um we yeah, we we sought counsel from people who had in our eyes respectable marriages, and they said, Hey, ex practically just the way you said it. Hey, you're coming in with all these elements of your life up to today, and you're gonna bring that into your marriage, and you gotta figure some stuff out along the way. And it's not gonna look pretty, but there is hope for doing this. Like, there's a there, you will figure this out, and that's that's actually the truth. You will figure this out. Um, and something you said of like once you learn to surrender, once you stop being selfish, um, once you learn to listen. I mean, that that's a that's a crazy thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Name changer right there, listening.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

What a concept. What a concept.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

So the first year, like, were you ever just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, or were you did you stay positive?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Um I stayed positive from a place of distraction. If I said so, what I and what I mean by that is I said if I do more to succeed in um the workplace, the the business endeavor, the like the external things, then it'll create success wherein we'll have more and then we can we can we can buy ourselves some time to actually sit down and talk instead of running around trying to trying to work all the time. I think that's to kind of sum it up, because I was when I got out the Navy, that's that's when we got married shortly after I had started a new uh field, like a new industry, which was heating and cooling. And I was like, oh I I I think I can succeed in this and it'll provide more resources. I also um was yeah, like I had a I kind of had a newfound um zest for life, as they say. I'm like, I realized the possibilities of what could happen if I pursued. Excellence. And so I was like, okay, if if I create excellence and I pursue success, we'll have more resources. We won't fight about money so much. We won't. And then also if I develop myself, I'll polish myself up. That way she won't have anything to say against me. Whoa, that's whack. Um it it was me, it was still me, me, me. I was like, I'll solve this by perfecting myself. That way no one can say anything against me. It means specifically in that moment, my wife. But now, today, you know, fast forward, I'm like, oh, just listen better. Just actually listen. And if she says that she has a need, because I don't have that need, I can't qualify or quantify that need that she's expressing. All I can do is actually listen and believe her, and choose to trust that what she's saying is just in fact, honest truth.

Seeking God First Changes The Tone

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Yeah, I think that we misunderstand what, and Lorraine's there. You can Lorraine, you tell me if this is wrong. That they want the most, women, is that they want to be able to trust and they want to feel safe. And if they trust and they feel safe, like all the femininity and all of like the you know, Lorraine's spontaneous spontaneity, all of that comes out because she's being herself. I always tell guys, like, if you're sitting on the couch and you're just sitting on the couch, it's not like your wife is trying to destroy your life. She just, if she sees that over and over again, there's a fear that comes in that says, I'm not safe. Because like, and I'm not talking about like you come home from the from work and you're sitting on the couch. I'm talking about in the middle of the day, like you're an entrepreneur and you're sitting on the couch. She's just like, if you're not gonna do work, we're we're not gonna be safe. And so it might feel like she's angry or she's trying to destroy your life, but what she's really crying out is like, why aren't you why aren't you working for our family? If you're not working for our family, then I have to work for our family. Uh like someone's gonna have to get this done because there's this feeling of fear, and when there actually is safety, that's when the like they can just be themselves the beautiful, spontaneous, loving. Like, we're we're we're allowing that to happen by knowing that that's what they want and being able, like, yeah, I know. I'm taking am I off on that, Lorraine? Did you hear what no?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

No, no, no, you're not off at all. Uh processing. This yeah, I'm really thinking about what you're saying. But the the biggest thing, the biggest shift in our marriage was six to eight months ago. Um, well, a year and a half actually, prior, I had I was talking to the Lord, and he's like, You seek me first, and everything else is gonna figure itself out. Yeah, you know, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and everything else will be added to you. But I just didn't know how to apply that. And then finally, six to eight months ago, I said, I'm gonna seek first the kingdom of God and I'm gonna trust that he's gonna do it, like figure it out for me. And then I didn't know how to honor a man at all because I never had an example um that was worthy of honoring, honor. But, you know, even if your husband, and I'm not saying this about Manalo, I'm not saying he's not worth worth honoring, but even if your spouse is not in your eyes worthy of honoring, you're feeding dishonor, which then you get more dishonored. Like you, that that man becomes more dishonorable. So I was just like, I don't know how to honor men. Manalo, I'm having this epiphany. How do I honor you? Because I've never honored a man in my life, and I've never seen a woman honor a man. And so he was like, I know this is gonna sound like backwards or weird, or it's not gonna make any sense to you, but you can honor me by getting in the word every day. And man, yeah, I did. I got in the word every day. I was like, I don't know how to honor him. And I'm gonna do the one thing he tells me to do that's honorable to him, which then made me more patient. It renewed my mind. It made me just be able to forgive, be able to love, be able to respect him. Um, and it really, it just happened. And that aspect of seeking first the kingdom is just everything really truly falls into place, but you've got to walk by faith in order to in order to actually experience him bring everything together.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

That's so beautiful. I I when I talk to guys, and I'll I'll just say, love your wife, you know, lay your life down, sacrifice, you know, lead. When I talk to women, a lot of the time there's bitterness there. And so I'll just say, you you need to forgive. And I guarantee you, your husband feels your bitterness and feels your unforgiveness. And that that's not helping. And so when you're able to release your husband, Lorraine, and you're just able to honor him because you're not holding anything against him, it's amazing what forgiving somebody will do for them.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

What it's yeah, and and unforgiveness. I think we said this in the podcast where you that you interviewed him, and but unforgiveness makes you so weary, makes you so tired. And so we were tired, both of us were tired because we weren't forgiving one another, which then meant that we couldn't walk out the calling God had for our lives. Like we were so focused on ourselves, um, and we were just so tired. So we actually couldn't make a difference and take our eyes off of ourselves. And it was, it was, yeah, first three years were really, really hard. But I think it was also a testing for us, which was I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for it. Because I remember thinking as we were gonna get go in and get married, uh, when we got married, I was thinking, I was like, oh, you know, I'm free in Christ, I can truly love and respect him the way God calls me to, because I have this newfound understanding and like I'm perfect in Christ.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Um and yes, that might be true, but at the same time, it wasn't easy, you know, like I hadn't produced the fruit of the spirit of self-control. So when it was hard to forgive, I didn't forgive because I didn't want to forgive, even though I knew I needed to. And so that that just I thought, oh, this is gonna be so great and so easy. But in fact, it was really challenging. But yeah, it was really challenging, but it was because uh why I'm laughing. It's because I had these assumptions, you know, of what it was gonna be like. And you're you're totally right, Rich, when you said um like bringing two different people together. Of course, there's all that's all this is normal. Um, but yeah, anyways, seek first the kingdom of God, man. That was that was the point that I was trying to make. And it was it's true, it's so good. You know, he's actually God's right about everything he says, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

So absolutely. So, Manala, she starts doing that. What was going on in your heart? What was going on in your life as she's starting to move in that way?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Ooh, so that was probably nine-ish months ago, maybe a year. So it's nine to twelve months. Um, nothing changed right away, right? I think, I think I was like, oh, cool, like she's starting to get in her Bible. I there was a hint of excitement internally, but I was like, let's see what comes of this, right? There's a place of uh trying to protect oneself of like uh until I see more, I won't react yet.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

So I'm not the most consistent person.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

And so that was the beginning of it. Like starting to just con Wow, okay, connecting more on what we read, because I've I've I'm pretty consistent with reading my Bible just from a place of I'm a habitual person. Like if it's a habit, it's gonna happen. And so when when she started reading her Bible, what happened immediately was this. We got to connect about something. We got to be like, oh, what did Paul say? You know, what did Jesus say? Oh, what did it say there? Oh, you've never read that, you gotta check it out. So there was like a common, a common thing that did not involve um succeeding at something, did not involve um a preference. It just was like, what do you think? It was it was just a place of neutral, a neutral conversation of drawing things out of just just just what I said. What do you think about this? Have you ever thought about that? And I I can't, I can't ever be like, well, if you don't see the Bible the way I see it, you're wrong. I but I could say that about a business, I could say that say that about parenting, I could say that about marriage. I shouldn't, but I could. But if when it came to the Bible, I'm like, oh, like if you see it a different way, I might need to look at it a little bit more. So it created a it created a neutral space where we could just have a conversation because in that space, truly, Jesus is the authority, right? Like just from a literal level, like I can't change his words, but if somebody sees it different, I gotta just check out what it's talking about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

I think that when I met you, I think it was the first time I met you five months ago when I was in Michigan.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 35:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

I I just we'd had a couple conversations on the phone. One time where you were like, Man, help me out with this. And we actually talked for a long time. I don't even know if it's about sex. Like, what do we do? I don't remember, but I think now that I'm thinking about it, it might have been something like a marriage thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

But then you and oh, go on.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

No, what were you what were you saying? I I think I'm not sure, but it was about anxiety, it was about butting heads. Um, it might have been about porn, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

It might have been about this one's like two years ago. It wasn't it wasn't recent.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Oh, yeah, for sure. That was about porn. The recent one was not about porn. Because we talked like seven months ago, and then but yeah, we talked like two months, two years ago.

Addiction Under The Hood And Warfare

SPEAKER_03 36:29

Yeah, anyway. But so I just thought, man, this guy's going after it. I thought that was so awesome. And then when I met you in Michigan, and you know, we spent a couple days and it was like deep theological, like, we're going for it. And was like, I'm not gonna be able to come back, but you came back anyway because you're just like, Oh, I love talking about this. I was like, Wow, this guy, like he really wants this, and that was huge because not everybody wants it. Sometimes it's like in somebody's way, and they know exactly what they've thought, and so they're trying to hear what you're saying and they're trying to align it with what they've previously thought, but they're not really like open ears, like and your attitude, you're just wanting to receive. And I was like, man, what a guy! Like, I I was just so blessed by your just the way you carried yourself and your sincerity. And um, because I knew a little bit about the couple years, yeah, I just saw, oh, it seems like they're really moving different now.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Yeah, yeah, truly. And and just because I mentioned the porn thing, something about porn, when I got free from porn, this is what happened. I I was habitually looking at porn, but then I heard Dan Muller, when he was ministering to someone who was a meth addict, he was like, bro, even if you're doing meth, worship God. Just just do build him in that place, like invite him into that place. Even if you're actively doing math and you are high as a kite, worship Jesus in that moment. And that's what I did. I was like, I was like, Lord, I'm not why am I looking at poor and you know, crying to myself. But then I was like, but God, you got a greater plan for me. And I thank you that you are in this place, even in the moment of my sin, and that you you're pulling me out as we speak. After a couple of weeks, it broke off. So so whoever's listening.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah, man, we go, you know, insert porn, insert alcohol, insert drugs, insert whatever. We go to these things because we're not able to handle our life. And we do this in a way that actually is hurtful to us. But in that moment, there's like some, you know, you get your mind, you get a dopamine release, and all these things. People try to fix it by just dealing with the porn or dealing with the alcohol. But to go under the hood and be like, what am I trying to escape? Yeah, what it, what am I afraid of? Why am I dysregulated emotionally right now? And so much of it can be struggling in a marriage or struggling at work, afraid of your finances. And so, like when we go under the hood and say, Yeah, oh, I'm I'm going to this thing because I can't handle my life right now. I can't handle like my spouse and I are fighting all the time. I can't handle my kids. And even thinking about the future gives me fear. Let me just numb out with drugs, SDR, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. You know, let me just do that. So if you if you go under the hood and like that's the beautiful thing about breaking any kind of habit, is that it's a deeply spiritual thing because you're learning actually how to handle your life.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Yeah. Like um, there's I was chatting with a friend this morning and he loves to use the word stewarding. And I think like handling your life, there's so much with that, like stewarding is not about succeeding at something, it's just like being responsible for what God has given you. Um, but that I feel like that's a whole nother talk. Um, when it comes to that too, like breaking addictions, breaking patterns. I I recently um was hearing your interview from like two episodes ago with Hui. And it's so cool, it's so timely because I think there's this, there's this release of power and knowledge and understanding that's happening all across the body of Christ right now. That addiction, there are chemical things happening, but there is a spiritual thing that's happening, which what you're talking about. But there's there is an enemy of your soul that wants to insert um anything and everything apart from Jesus to provide your satisfaction. And it is it is blatantly targeting the thing that you will not let go, the the thing you will not bring before the Lord. And I'm so excited for the body to um, the body of Christ to to have like a rev, a greater, deeper revelation and also like a common, a common knowledge about these things that once upon a time you couldn't talk about because it was too far out. But if if we're if we're in this fight trying to save souls, like we have to acknowledge that there's an enemy that we're fighting against. And we gotta know how he plays. Like we gotta know that we gotta know that he he has a strategy so that we can outmaneuver him. I think I think there's something there.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

But there's there's so much, like in terms of this topic about the enemy, it's we it with the whole from death to life, we're now free in Christ. What's this look like? Oh my gosh, this is awesome! You know, he's our savior, but then we get to a point where he can be our Lord, the Lord of our life, and say, Hey, my life is not my own, it's yours. Um, I give it, I give this to you. And what's cool is that's the heaven on earth that we all get to experience and we get to help other people experience. Um, but if we stay in the just like this is about me, I'm free, you know, then if we don't, if we don't start actually, you know, participating in the war, so to speak, um, the war for people's souls, then uh man, like we're we're just called, we're called to do that. And so when that happens, uh yeah, God's God's gonna be glorified.

Sabbath Rest Breaks Performance Fear

SPEAKER_03 42:55

It's who he said it. I don't know if he said it in this podcast that we just recorded, but he said, if you're not on mission, you are the mission. And I was like, Yeah, let's go. That's like that's uh that's a word right there. So when did you realize that things were changing then?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Um so I I I got a word from the Lord in around September of 2025, and he just said, honor my Sabbath. I was like, cool, okay. Like I have a concept of what the Sabbath is. You you take one week off out of the seven. And one day. Or sorry, one day out of the seven. Who cares if it's a Saturday? Who cares? Who cares if it's a Sunday? Like, I'll just figure out which one it is. For me, it for me it was a Saturday or a Friday. So we committed to one of those days every week. We would just, we would just, we would just not say yes to anyone but us. That was my that was the beginning version of the Sabbath. Like, I'm gonna drop all my commitments. I'm gonna I'm gonna stop caring if I let someone down. Ooh. I think that's what happened during um that those first couple of months of honoring the Sabbath. And what what broke off of me was the fear of man. I had I had had a such a performance mindset um from the moment I was born until literally September 2025. And and the Lord said, Honor my Sabbath. Um, I think it might it's in the old test, it might be Jeremiah or Ezekiel, but there's there's a place where um Israel is is like desolate as a city. And then the prophet, the Lord spoke to the prophet and said, Go to the gates and announce to the people to honor my Sabbath, to stop trading, to stop doing business through these gates on my day that you should honor me. And watch what I'll do. I will make kings and nations pass through these gates again. I will make the other nations honor Jerusalem again. And I was like, okay, that's cool. Like, and that the the reason I mentioned that is that's when the Lord ministered to me to honor the Sabbath day.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Um and then for me, the way that it happened was I had the the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, You gotta get back to when you got free. And the biggest thing was when I was on the phone with Serena five years ago, and she was like, What lie do you think you're believing? And I'm like, I don't know. And she's like, Well, let's ask the Holy Spirit. And I'm like, Okay, this is weird. And so ask the Holy Spirit and voila, like literally, Holy Spirit pops this lie in my head that I didn't even know I was believing. And so now we're in the present day, and um, and the Holy Spirit actually told me to. I had a friend that was sharing with me that her and her husband walk in a lot of pride. And the Holy Spirit in that moment said, Hey, do you um you need to ask her if she wants to continue to carry that? And I did not ask her. I was disobedient to the Holy Spirit because it was like not the right time. It felt like not the right time. Uh, I later on told her this whole story, and she was like, actually, that was when I was the most ready. Um, I'm like, praise the Lord that my Mistake was with another believer and not a non-believer, right? So, but anyways, I learned from that, and man, obedience is like glory be to God. He how can we not obey him? He's like he's so good. And um, but anyways, the next morning I'm in secret place time with the Lord, and he's like, You need to practice. Like he's so gracious, but yet stern with me. He's like, You need to practice um what you what I told you to do last night for yourself, so that when that happens again, you can actually follow through. And so I was like, Okay, Lord, what lie am I believing? And he's like, You believe that control serves you. And I was like, wow, okay, that's like that's like big. Can we start smaller? Um, and then try a white lie.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

That's a that's a big one.

Letting Go Of Control Brings Healing

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah, so I was like, okay, and so I I had this visual in my that I had control in my hand. I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it right now. And Manal just happened to be there actually in the living room with me that morning, but usually that's not the way it goes. And um, I was like, I'm just gonna do it now. And so I was like, Lord, I give you this control. I ask that you take it and you cast it into the deepest ocean, never to return, in Jesus' name. And I, and with full faith, I just believed that he would do it. And um the minute I gave it to him, and I said, in Jesus' name, amen, I had this chronic spine pain I didn't even realize existed. It was just like kind of just like annoying pain in my spine. And um literally, it was like a string came up and out of me and up out of my house from the ceiling. Like it just, it like it was a small string that just was pulled out of my spine and went straight up into the air. And I had no pain in my spine. I still haven't had it to this day, and I could not stop laughing. I was laughing so hysterical. I thought, oh my, this is crazy. And Manal was there and he has what he calls the cheat, the Jesus tickles or the Jesus giggles. And I'm like, I always think he's kind of crazy when he gets into these giggles, but then I'm all of a sudden uncontrollably laughing. And I'm like, is this how you feel? And he was like, Yeah, yeah, this is it. And then um he was basic. I think Manal is trying to move the screen.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

There you are.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

He's basically like, is this how you feel? I said, Is this how you feel? And he goes, Yeah, this is how I feel when that happens. And I'm just like, wow. And then all of a sudden the laughing stops. And the laughing stops, and then um this peace washes over me. Just and I sent back, and you know, all the times that I had smoked weed and gotten real high or drank or whatever, it none of that could touch the the feeling that I had. Because whenever I'd smoke, I'd smoke to giggle, and then you get couch locked, and and then you'd be like, so like your body was light and numb. And this, that none of that could touch what I experienced that morning. And it was just so beautiful. And anytime control try tries to like pop up back again, I'm just like, no, you know, like I can, I can choose to believe it and reinvite it back into my life because I have free will, but I'm just saying, you know, thank you, Holy Spirit, that you showed me that I'm not, I actually don't operate out of control in control anymore. Um and, you know, to to explain that, like the Lord was like, okay, start letting go of these lies, get back to the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Um, and start to make it a habit of laying down the lies that the enemy deceived you to carry. And so I just, there's just been so many times. Every time I asked the Holy Spirit, what lie am I believing? He tells me, he tells me I was believing that rushing served me. I released that, and I had another healing, another body healing. It was crazy. I I believed that I was better than other people. Only Holy Spirit would have been able to tell me that. I did not know I was walking in arrogance. And I just got to the end of myself. I would have felt so like yucky, yucky ick feeling in the pit of your stomach because I was judging somebody and I didn't know what it was. And I was like, Holy Spirit, what is this? And he goes, You think you're better than her? And I'm like, What? How? And then he was like, Well, you're an obedient daughter, so that causes you to the fruit of that is freedom. But just because you're more free than other people doesn't mean you're better than them. And I was like, Oh my gosh. I said, Thank you, thank you so much for telling me this. Because I was like, I told Manalo, I was like, nobody could have told me that. And he goes, I told you that last week.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

And um doesn't work the same.

Practical Counsel For Struggling Newlyweds

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yes, same. But that's really where I was at. Manalo, Manalo was consistent in the word, but for me, I like getting in the word, renewing my mind every day, it's it not coming from a performance thing. I mean, like the best day, the best part of my day is with him. The best part of my day. I mean, you get filled up at the beginning of your day. It's just the it's just amazing. And then you can actually like love, you can actually be the hands and feet of Jesus. You can do those things because you're not coming from a place of scarcity anymore. And it's not perfect, it doesn't look perfect, but it's just so much a such a better way to live. I got distracted because Manal started messing with the the the camera, and then I was like, no, control you, get out of here. I'm not trying to control it. You you better stop controlling it.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

So um Manalo, um as you're walking in this thing, if someone comes to you, they're just they just got married, they're in it a year and they're going through the same struggles. What would you how would you counsel someone who's like, man, I'm still struggling in my marriage? Well, how would you counsel them?

SPEAKER_02 53:51

Well, I I think the the truest answer is to to stop whatever you're trying to do and go to God first. Like Lorraine had mentioned it's seeking first the kingdom of God. And I think I think we need to get more serious about that. I think I think there's so much there that salvation is just salvation is just getting into the amusement park. Salvation is just getting in there. Like you gotta go on the rides, you gotta eat the you gotta eat the turkey legs, you gotta, you know, get whatever you know what I mean? Like you gotta get in there, you gotta play the game. Um like salvation is it's beautiful because now you you get rescued from the pit of hell and you can experience heaven on earth, but heaven on earth is every day. Like, if this is super bold and like this is not my life, but this is kind of what I'm striving for. That every day should be heaven. Every day should be heaven on earth. And if we're not there yet, we need more Jesus. Like we need to, we need to really seek his will more. Um and the way that that applies to like having a first year of marriage and all that stuff is there were places that there were hurts in my heart that I didn't know how to give up. I was holding on to the hurts as if they were mine, but they were not mine anymore. Somebody bought them, I didn't own them anymore. Um and I was not willing to let go of being the boss of my life. And when we started honoring God first in that Sabbath time that I told you about in September, we started learning that his peace is there's a there's a substance to his peace. It's not a concept. There's a substance to his peace. Like if you walk in a room that just smells like straight up cigarette smoke, versus if you walk into a greenhouse that's like fresh air, you notice it. Like you're like, I don't know, I don't understand chemistry or physics or biology, but this room, this room stinks and the other room smells good. The peace of God is the same in that you can walk into someone's house and experience the peace of God because the peace of the Lord is hosted in that house. You can shake hands with somebody and experience the peace of the Lord resting on them because they're hosting the Holy Spirit and they're they're honoring God on a level that um allows them to carry that peace. That I think that that is the power that Paul was talking about. That I'm not gonna come at you with eloquence, eloquent speech and out debate you and show you where you are wrong or where you misinterpreted the gospel. I'm just gonna shake your hand, smile at you, and look you in the eye. And in that moment, you will feel peace and love and hope. And you're gonna go, what is up with that guy? And so we need to be bold in pursuing Jesus because everything else, man, is it doesn't even compare. Like I was idolizing my wife. I thought that she I was making her my God. I was saying, if I could just make her happy, it'd all be good. If I could just get her to listen to me, it'll all be good. If I can just get our finances in order, it'll all be good. Um but I I wasn't seeking what God wanted from me in that moment. And in that first year of marriage marriage, especially, what he wanted was if I could if I could quote him, he would say, Leave her alone, come sit with me, and let's talk first. I think that's that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Like, let her cook. You need to get with me. You okay, you need peace. Yeah, and now go love your wife.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Yeah, yeah, truly. That would be it. And then um, so September happened, and then January, God told me, break up your year in quarters. So quarter one, quarter two, quarter three, quarter four. And quarter one, he said, All right, now you learned to carve out your calendar to honor my Sabbath. Now actually experience my Sabbath. I was like, what does that even mean? He was like, I taught you level zero Sabbath. I'm about to take you level one. Like, you could bring that with you. Like the peace and the chill. Chill is not even the word. The rest that you experienced when you honored the Sabbath on a Saturday or a Friday or whatever. Now you can take it with you to work. You can take it with you to a meeting. I was like, okay. I still, I still did that. And then Q2 came upon, and here we are, April, right? And I thought, I'm like, all right, I'm well rested up, Lord. Like, it's time to go. He's like, All right, now level two Sabbath. Learn to abide in me. Like you learn to, you learn to like carry the peace. Now listen, now you get to learn to listen to me while the world is like cooking up a storm for you. You can just walk through that storm and go, what's next, God? What do you want? I don't know if that makes sense right now, but oh man, it's preaching.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

I'm hearing you, dude. And like, I'm like, yes. Let's let's rest, let's abide. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

And when you've been participating in performance, like both of us were striving and performing. It's not like you know, you you take two Sabbaths and you've got it figured out, or you take Q1 and you got it figured out. It's like we're like just now, after five months, six months, just now understanding what it is to rest because we part we participated in not resting for 36 years. So it's just like that instant result, that microwave mentality that we just have as a culture, it's totally normal to have that. But like the Lord has more for us because his principles and his way is better, it's higher. And in order to participate, we really need to surrender. Like whatever it is, uh I have days where I surrender the same thing every single morning because it's like, oh, I picked it up. I didn't realize I picked it up again, you know. But it's not like, duh, you know, he's like, that's okay. Here, I'll take it again, you know, and getting in into a practice of like forgiveness, but he said, but getting into the practice of surrender, like whatever it is, I surrender my kids to you, Lord. I surrender my husband to you, or my wife to you, I surrender my uh my job, I surrender my income, I surrender, um, I surrender control, I surrender the outcome of the day, whatever that might be, I give it to you, Lord, because I I'm living for you. You you set me free. How could I not live for you? How can I not do that? And it's just so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

Yeah. Anything else you want to add to that, Manala?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

We're just so excited. It's just the beginning. It's like, I think, you know, I actually didn't want to go on this podcast with you because I'm like, I'm not about telling my story. Like, there's all these things. And I prayed about it, and God's like, you should go and tell your story because it, you know, there were stories that encouraged you, so you should go encourage somebody else. And I've been since you first, um, since we first kind of were like, all right, let's do it. I've literally been thinking about this almost daily of like, Lord, what are you gonna do? And I think the thing is, what he just really wants to say is it's just the beginning. Wherever you are in your journey, there is more of God for you. There is more of what he wants to show you. If you feel like you're on the top of the mountain, he's about to teach you how to fly. Like just more. There's just more of God, and I want to see people just celebrating the streets, receiving this gospel message, knowing that it's just the beginning. Like, you're just getting fed milk and you're happy about it. I got stinking potatoes in the back waiting for you. Like, oh man, and it gets gooder and gooder. I heard this one time in the in the in the world, you eat and you become full. But in the kingdom, you eat and you get more hungry because you want more of him. He's the bread of life, and you just want more and more and more and more because it's just that good, it's just the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:52

Well, you guys are an encouragement to me. Um I've just been blessed to just listen to you guys talk right now, but just seeing your life and seeing how you're going after it, and seeing how God has redeemed your past, redeeming your present, and giving you a future. So thank you so much for let me see Lorraine's face too.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

Thanks for letting me chime in.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

No, it's beautiful. Thank you guys so much for letting me chime in.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

You didn't know, you knew, you knew you gave me permission to come in, and then I did.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

We had to have it. Thank you guys so much for sharing. We love you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Yeah, love you too. See you soon. Bye.