Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#262 Nana: A Ghanaian Med Student Finds Peace In Christ
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We sit down with Nana and trace her path from Ghana to Michigan State to Loma Linda, where disappointment, burnout, and hidden shame collide with a gospel that finally feels personal. Her story centers on learning to trust God as Father and taking Romans 6 seriously when life refuses to cooperate.
• growing up Seventh-day Adventist in Ghana and learning faith through family prayer
• early disappointment with grades, health struggles, and a transactional view of God
• seeds of sexual sin, secrecy, and the shame loop of performance religion
• moving to the US, throwing herself into ministry, and burning out under pressure
• seeking help through confession, prayer, and tools that address what is underneath
• PhD stress at Loma Linda, a difficult lab environment, and the cost of isolation
• finding hope through testimonies, Bible study, and seeing Romans 6 with new eyes
• breakthrough clarity through No Longer I and living from identity in Christ
• what “free from sin” means in daily life and what we would tell our younger selves
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Why These Stories Matter
SPEAKER_00The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.
SPEAKER_03So um I came across her podcast episode, and then I listened to it. I think I listened to Ian's later on after that, and then I was hooked, and I just like started listening to all the stories. I probably listened to like 50 of the podcasts in like a span of a month. That's how hard I was like, yo. Yes. I listened to so many of them. I wouldn't say I fully understood what was going on, but I just had never heard such powerful transformation like anywhere in my entire Christian life, you know. And I just knew that there was something different, you know, how people were speaking without any shame about their past and you know how much transformation they had exactly.
Meeting Nana And Her Roots
SPEAKER_00Yo, welcome to the Dead to Life Podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's guest is my sister Nana. And I met her I think two years ago in California, and I've seen her life change by the gospel. And I didn't know her story until I saw her again this last year in California. I said, I think it's I think it's time we do a podcast. And she said, um, let's go. And I was so blessed to hear her story and uh to hear her vulnerability and to see how God has changed her and brought her from death to life is such a huge blessing. I think you'll be blessed by it. And um, yeah. That's uh that's what you're gonna hear next. So buckle up and strap in. Uh love y'all, appreciate y'all here, isn't it? Alright. We are recording. Uh my house was just flooding, and I had to figure that out, and now I'm back upstairs. I'm ready to record this episode. My mind is right. Um, and we were just talking about how to pronounce your name. Say your full your whole name and where like where you're from, because I like I don't want to destroy it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's okay. Um, my full name is Nana Abina Usua Anti, and I'm from Ghana. The Nana is actually a very common Ghanaian name. Same as Abina, it means girl born on Tuesday. Um, yeah, so I I grew up, I was born and raised in Ghana um for up until I was 19. Um, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Up until you were 19. Okay, so educate me geographically. Where is Ghana in Africa?
SPEAKER_03It's in West Africa. So if you look at the African map, like the head kind of looks like like this. It's kind of like in the towards the armpit of towards the armpit. Yes, it's towards towards the armpit. It's kind of a little bit more west to Nigeria. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00So is your your neighbors are Nigeria?
SPEAKER_03Um, we actually don't share a border, but we are like two countries separated from Nigeria. But most people know Nigeria because it's probably like the most populous country in Africa. But um, we our neighbors are Burkina Faso, Togo, and um Cote d'Ivoire. And then there's like Benin after Togo and then Nigeria. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Wow. So is there a big city in Ghana that you grew up in?
SPEAKER_03Yes. I grew up in Kumasi. Um is like the second largest city um in the country. Most people know of Accra, which is like the capital and where all the fun happens. But yeah, I grew up in Kumasi.
SPEAKER_00And so how many languages are spoken in Ghana? Oh, many.
SPEAKER_03Um the written languages alone, I think they're about over 20, 20, almost 30. But then there are many more dialects, probably close to 100. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So how many languages do you speak?
SPEAKER_03Um, I only speak one Ghanaian language. So it's called Tree. It's like the most widely spoken, especially in the South.
SPEAKER_00Um tree, like in like T-R-E-E, like a tree outside?
SPEAKER_03No, no, no. It's TWI, how we pronounce it tree.
SPEAKER_00T W I, but it's pronounced, but it's pronounced with the R.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, almost. Yes, tree. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Do you have a Bible that's in tree?
SPEAKER_03Um currently I don't, but yeah, I grew up having uh a tree Bible. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Alright, so you you were born there, your parents are native to Ghana?
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes. My parents are in the game.
SPEAKER_00Alright, yeah, tell me about that. Tell me about what, yeah, give me the background.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, I mean, I uh my parents are both Ghanaian, um, they're both Adventists, they were raised in the church. I think my dad was second generation. Um my mom, I don't know if that's like considered first generation, but she um became Adventist through her uncle. So um back during my parents' time, they kind of like lived communally. So it's like all their siblings and their cousins, they just all live in one big house. And so their parents lived in like a village far away, but then they live a little bit closer to the city, um, but with their uncle. And their uncle was an Adventist. And um through their uncle, they all were kind of like brought up in the Adventist church, went to Adventist schools. Um, yeah, and then they met when they were both in college. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Is does the Adventist Church have a large uh presence in Ghana? Is it one of the larger churches, smaller churches? What would you say about that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll say it's like pretty well known. Um, maybe not as large as like Catholic, but I think Ghana as a country, we're very religious. And it's like maybe 70% Christian, and Adventists are like pretty well known. Um we're like one of the more well-known churches, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so do you know how your parents came into the faith?
SPEAKER_03Or yeah, so my my dad, he was just kind of raised in it. Um, I think um, like I'll say maybe in the late 1800s, there were a lot of missionaries that came to Ghana. Um, because I think that started even with like the beginning of Europeans coming to like Ghana. There was a lot of like Methodist influence, Lutheran, and all these different things. And a lot of them actually had huge impacts through the educational system. Um, and so for my parents, um, I think there was a huge Adventist presence in both of their respective towns that they grew up in. So I think their parents converted and they kind of raised them that way. For my mom, it was it was her uncle that converted and he kind of raised them um as Adventists. So they just kind of grew up as Adventists. Um, I think my dad had like uh some years of backsliding a little bit. Um, but my mom was pretty like devout all the way up until he met my dad. Um they were both a little bit older in college, especially my dad, because he took like a long route. Um, but they yeah, met. And I think they were the only two Adventists in your class, and people were like, oh, you should get married, and then yeah, they just started talking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. Or married, yeah. So what okay, there's people don't like this, but I I just believe it's true. There's there's a lot of different forms of Adventism. Um maybe you agree, maybe you don't agree. What is the what does it look like in Ghana? What is the the the the brand of Adventism that's in?
SPEAKER_03Adventism. Yeah, I'll say it's very conservative. Um for the most part, and a lot of it is just inherited from what the global church told us, you know. So for instance, like I think when they establish a lot of um churches in Adventism, there's like no drums, you know, no Christmas, no Easter, stuff like that. And even though when I moved here to the US, it was a little bit of a shock. Be like, oh, they celebrate Christmas here and they they do all of that. But back home, we've kind of held on to those beliefs, like Adventists don't do that. So I'll say we're we're pretty conservative in that sense, like no jewelry. Um, but at the same time, there are certain things that here is commonly associated with Adventism that we don't really practice, like vegetarianism. Actually, like my Africans love, we we love our meat, so it's like majority of the church is not vegetarian, like it is here.
SPEAKER_00So at the Platluck, you'll have like a, you know, you'll have all the meat and it's not it, not a thing.
Conservative Adventism In Ghana
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, it's not a thing. So as as long as um, as long as it's like it follows the Leviticus 11, you know, that's like kind of like the the the main restrictions. And usually people who are vegetarians are usually the pastors, or like if you're like I guess extremely like conservative, that's kind of how it's seen. But I'll say for the most part, we are we are more conservative for sure.
SPEAKER_00So is this is is this the this is the kind of church you grew up in?
SPEAKER_03Yes, that's the kind of church I grew up in. But I think my parents did a good job of making it more balanced. Um, I wouldn't necessarily say that you know my parents were very um, yes, they did help us understand the reason why we did X, Y, and Z and we didn't do that, but they weren't like super strict, like I had seen some of my friends' experience. So in terms of like um like me personally growing up, and I think my siblings will probably agree. Um, we didn't feel like they've the strong effect of legalism necessarily. And plus, my I feel like my mom was also very open to um learning from other churches, especially like in Ghana, there's like a huge like charismatic Pentecostal movement, and um, she was really open to that. So she kind of modeled um the you know not so much of the inside versus outside. You know how like Adventists sometimes we have a lot of like we are the remnant and everybody else is wrong and you know they're lost. And I feel like my mom didn't really believe that, even though she was a women's ministries director for for our conference. So it was it was a little different for when we were at home. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so yeah, tell me about that. Tell me about growing up out there, and yeah, you lead the way here.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Um, so I'd say that um as you know, as I was saying earlier, like my parents weren't as strict about it, even though um at church maybe a lot of it will be emphasized. Um, also for some strange reason, I wasn't as active in like Pathfinders or you know, any of those things just because my mom didn't necessarily trust like some of the leaders. And so I felt like I did it.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00She's like, I don't like the honors they're choosing. Like, we need more backpacking, less cats and dogs honors. I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I I wasn't as active, but I'll say that my parents did a good job. Like, um, we had devotions at home. We we went to church every Saturday in terms of like raising up in the way of God and you know helping us understand. Um, but I'll say also another important thing that even to this day, I'm very grateful for. My mom really modeled like a prayer lifestyle and you know, coming to God with your problems. Although at times I took it and it was misguided. But I feel like um overall, that was a very positive influence in my life to this day. That's like God is somebody you can always come to no matter um what is going on, no matter how hard, no matter how impossible situation seems, and you know, he's gonna take care of us and come through.
SPEAKER_00So oh, praise the Lord.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So this is uh yeah, did anything happen in your childhood that like shape your view of God in a in a negative way, or what what was that like?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll say like the probably the first um, I guess, disappointment, which kind of is the the theme that I was, you know, noticing as I was reflecting back on my life. The first time where I kind of felt disappointed by God um was like towards the end of middle school. So the Ghanaian educational system is a little different. Um you do like elementary school and then middle school, and then you take a national exam. And then based on how well you do, you move on to like high school and you know um beyond. And that national exam is very significant because it kind of determines what kind of high schools you'll be eligible for. And I was trusting God for um a certain grade, and I just remember not getting it and feeling a little um disappointed just because I had seen many times where we've come together as a family and pray together um and see God like do really incredible things. And then this time I was like, oh wow, you know, I didn't get the grade that I that I wanted. So I say that was like probably the first time where um my view of God was starting to be shaped towards the things that He does for us, you know, and like our circumstances.
SPEAKER_00So He He didn't show up for you when you you wanted that grade. Yes. Um Yeah, so what else was shaping your views of of God?
Disappointment With God And Success
SPEAKER_03Um I mean I'd say at that point I I still was um I I I wouldn't say that my relationship with God was super personal. I think I genuinely enjoyed the the things of God. I like going to church. I you know saw my friends. Um but I wouldn't say that was necessarily personal. It was just more like I understand Adventist doctrines and these are like the the different things that we do. But so something significant happened in between somewhere in between middle school and high school. I actually don't even remember, but um, which you know I'm sure you won't be surprised because you've heard so many of these stories. But a friend of mine had shown me um adult videos, yes. And even though at that time it didn't take any seed, it was more like a sorry, it didn't like it, it didn't become a behavior or anything. I feel like the the seeds were planted um at that time. And so I moved on to high school. Um in high school, I went like most of the high schools in Ghana are like boarding. So you spend about three months at a time in boarding school, and then you come home for like a few weeks and then you go back. Um, and so I had no access to phones or computers. So I feel like, you know, that didn't quite take root during that season of my life. But I just remember that even though in high school my relationship with God was building, it was becoming more personal. I was getting to know him for myself. Um I still was um struggling like every teenager, not feeling confident in myself. I had gone from being like on top of my class in middle school to like being very average. That was like really hard. Um and also my family was going through a lot of financial um distress during that time because my mom used to work for the conference. She was the women's ministry's director for the conference for almost like a decade. And there had been like a lot of church politics that happened, and he was kind of let go of the role. That was very, a very difficult time for my family. So we went from two incomes to one income, so things were really hard. And yeah, I just remember a lot of the time just being really sad in high school and just praying to God to change things and make things better, and things just didn't change and it kept it kept being um being the same.
SPEAKER_00Um what was your rubric to decide if you could feel good? My rubric is like sometimes. And what was like if that wasn't happening often?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll say like probably like my grades was one of them. Um, and how people perceived me. So it's like, oh, if if somebody thinks I'm smart, or somebody thinks I'm talented, or you know, um whatever you can insert there, I'll say those were the two main things that made me feel good. Um at least during that um stage of my life. Um, so none of that was happening when I was in high school. And I feel like my high school was also very um, the culture of the high school was very like performance-based and like um, you know, you have to be a prefect or be in sports or be like good at entertainment or something. And I just felt like I just wasn't good at anything um at all. And I just remember a lot of my my journaling during that time. I was like, Lord, I just want to be good at something, you know, like this. I just don't want to um keep on doing this. So um I'll say another significant thing, which will kind of also build up, is my school was a Methodist school, as most high schools are in Ghana. They're like um affiliated to churches. And my school was particularly strict, they were very suspicious of um denominations like Adventism or like Latter-day Saints. And so there was no like space for you know Adventists to go meet together on the Sabbath and you know, Latter-day Saints to go do. It's like you all go to the one Methodist service that they have, and that's it. So it was very challenging. And then they'll schedule like educational activities on the Sabbath. Um, and for me, I was like very dedicated, like, yes, I'm gonna honor God and I'm gonna stay strong and not do um how do I put it? Yes, yes, not not do schoolwork, not do any of sometimes it will be like a little sneaky, but I'm like, you know, I know God will reward me if I if I honor him. So that was also another aspect of what was happening in in high school. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Man, so yeah, what happened? How did it work out?
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, so I mean, I um I never got caught on anything. I never got into trouble for that. Um, but I'll say that towards the end of high school, um, we we took another national exam to go into college. And I was intending to study medicine. And yeah, I wrote a national exam. And when the results came out, kind of similar to what happened with middle school, I did pretty okay, but it wasn't, you know, good enough to get me into um med um medical school. And so that was also another very like disappointing moment. I think it also had another layer of like you hear all these testimonies of people who are like, oh, I kept the Sabbath and I did this, and God showed up and you know, some crazy thing that God did to honor them keeping the Sabbath. And for me, it was like, oh no, you know, you just didn't do as well, and you just didn't get into medical school, and there's no huge testimony here.
SPEAKER_00And then you think that you'd done something wrong, like that God didn't honor you because you'd done something wrong, or were you just like, I'm not sure if God works this way? Like, what did you think?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think I think honestly, it was just more like it works for some people and not for me. And that also kind of shows you a little bit of the insincerity of my Sabbath keeping, because it was almost like a way of like uh I know I'm sure some parts of it was sincere, like this is how I was brought up and this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna stand for it. But I think another part of it too was just almost like trying to get something from God, you know, in in the in this in this um what's it called? In this sense, like getting good grades, especially because I'd been very average in school and um and all of that. Yeah. So it was just more so that God was doing it for everybody else, but not necessarily like for me.
SPEAKER_00What a hater. You're like, I'm out here, I'm guarding the edges. I'm starting Sabbath on Thursday morning and ending it on Tuesday night. Uh can I can you hook me up with some AP or some biology?
SPEAKER_02I know, right? Yeah. So that's it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that kind of thinking that could kill that that'll hurt you. Like that'll hurt your view of God for sure.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. It did. It did.
SPEAKER_00So then what was the move?
SPEAKER_03So um I, you know, based on the it was kind of more like a family decision. Decided to take a gap here because I'd been um offered another degree like to study biochemistry in our local university in Ghana, and it wasn't really what I wanted. And my parents also didn't have a lot of money at that time. My sister was in her like third year of college, so it was already a lot of strain on my family. My little sister was just going to boarding school, so they were like, okay, how about you just take a gap year and then see if you can rem. I think I had like three B's, see if you can remediate a couple of them to A's, and we can try again to see if you can get into um medical school. And I agreed, but it was it was tough because I saw all my classmates kind of and friends from church like moving on, starting college, and I was at home, wasn't even sure if that was gonna work out. Um and also this kind of like unspoken, I don't want to say like people put it on me. I think it's more I put on myself, where I just felt like people will assume that I did so poorly I couldn't even get into college. So that that bothered me a lot. But you know, looking back, it's like I'm not the only one who takes a gap here. I'm sure other people do, but I was so like No, you're the only one, and we all judge you. But yeah, I I I was sure people were like, oh, she didn't do well at all, you know, and that's why she's did you used to think that about other people?
SPEAKER_02Um, actually, probably, yeah. Yeah, yes. There it is.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's why.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that's we put we're so hard on ourselves, then we're hard on other people, then we're harder on ourselves, and then we think that that's how the world is looking at us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Um, and I think another thing too that I forgot to mention, like in in high school, was I had had like a health condition as well. I still haven't gotten to the bottom of it even now, but um like I had prayed to God also during that time, like, can you please take this away? And I just remember praying like all the three years that I was in high school, and you know, it was like it never went away. So that was I felt like that kind of like theme of you know, God seems to be showing up in some ways. Like let's say if my my family and I are praying for these big things, but when I'm the one who's like asking for it, then you know the answer is always no. Um, I felt like that theme just kind of kept um popping up. Or more so it was a lens. Let me let me put it. I I think now that I'm older, I know that it was just a lens at which I was looking at everything that was happening, you know, in my life.
Hidden Sexual Sin And Performance Faith
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's strange to have this God is a Santa Claus type thing that if we behave right, honor the Sabbath, then we'll get all these good things. I don't think we realize that the good things are like rest peace, um peace that surpasses understanding. You know, when it says uh seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you, we do that so we can get all the things that would be added unto us, and that is not actually seeking first the kingdom of God, it's seeking the things that you can get. So we get it backwards, we're um and we think we're doing it the right way. But I don't think that's strange. I think a lot of people think that way, and then they get disappointed and take off. Definitely, yeah. So after your gap year, what did you decide?
SPEAKER_03Yes, so uh this was during the my gap year. Um, things kind of took a turn. Um, where you know the only way I can describe it was like really was God's miracle because it wasn't even my plan going into the gap year. But my mom was had suggested that I try taking the SAT and looking at school out schools outside of Ghana because we weren't even sure if the um medical school was going to work, and so I did, and I just remember the entire process of like applying to schools and um like writing the SAT and all these things. It was just very I just felt like I was just met with so much resistance, but then I kept going, and you know, at the last minute when I felt like I knew all the doors were closed, you know, God made a way, and I ended up um getting an admission to Michigan State University um to continue my education. And funny enough, I studied biochem. What what I what what I didn't do in Ghana, that's that's the major that I came into MSU with. Um, so yeah, that was very interesting.
SPEAKER_00Did uh did you know anything about Michigan State? Did you know where Michigan was?
SPEAKER_03Did you I had no idea? The no, I I had no idea where Michigan was. I just knew it was a school in the United States, and I knew that they had a a scholarship program that for like African students. So it really, I just applied, and somehow my the things I said in my essays like aligned with you know what they wanted, and so I knew nothing about Michigan at all before I moved.
SPEAKER_00Was Michigan the first time you've ever experienced snow?
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, it was the first time I left my country. I had never that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00And so you went to East Lansing, right?
SPEAKER_03That's where Michigan State is, yes.
SPEAKER_00What was that like?
SPEAKER_03Um, it was fun for like a few months, and uh and it was not fun. The moment it started snowing, it was good for like a week. I was like, this is too cold. I did not like like the weather at all. But I'll say overall it still was a positive experience. Um I made a lot of good friends, both in you know, my program, in my scholarship program, but also in church. I think that was when I really started throwing myself very deeply into like church, and um we we had like a an Adventist church close to campus, the university church, and a very active like youth ministry like student fellowship. So I just kind of threw myself in, and that was all I did. School, church, school, church for like those.
SPEAKER_00Help me, was the church that you were you were attending was it on campus with young people, or were you going to an Adventist church off campus?
SPEAKER_03It was off campus, but it was a unit, it was like the name was university church. So it was very close. Like I could just take the bus to you know, like a 10-minute bus ride, and I would be like a church.
SPEAKER_00Was it a black church or a white church?
SPEAKER_03It was very mixed, very multicultural. There were a lot of like Hispanics, Africans, um, yeah, Americans, like it was very, very diverse.
SPEAKER_00Do you do you know who Malcolm X is? Maybe that is a stupid question.
SPEAKER_03Um, I think so.
SPEAKER_00Okay, Malcolm X is a civil rights leader from the 60s, and he grew up near East Lansing. Oh, wow. And his mom became Adventist because she heard the health message, and she just loved this health message, and but she was mentally unstable. And one day they were they came to take away, you know, I think he had seven brothers and sisters, and this doesn't mean anything to you, but it might and when they were taking him away to go live with another family, she yelled out, make sure he doesn't eat pork. Like this was like a big thing for her. And so when you said at East Lansing, Seventh day Avenue Church or something, like that uh that story popped in my head. Um yeah, that's that makes that cracks me up. So you you had a good experience of the church there then?
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes. I'll say I had a good experience. Um, I think for the first time I was starting to um, and I guess looking back now, I'm like it could could have been good, could have been bad, but it it it was what it was. But I'll say for um for the first time I was really starting to understand the the Adventist doctrine, and my church was very huge on ministry. Actually, a lot of the friends that I made, the good friends that I made, they weren't even Adventists, they or even Christian, you know, a lot of them were just like students on campus who um had been reached out to by fellow students and you know they had become they had become um Adventists. So that was really like the identity of the the church and the student ministry. They're really big on outreach, evangelism. Um, yeah. So over I think it was it was a positive experience overall for my spiritual life because I feel like my relationship with God deepened even more. But I think it also came with some baggage as well, um, because it was very conservative. Actually, to be fair, I'll say that there are other places that was way more conservative than Islands. That was still a little bit of balance. But looking back, I'm like, yeah, you you kind of pick up some good and then also like a lot of like baggage with that.
SPEAKER_00What were some of the baggage that you were believing or running with?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, I would say like um a lot of it, you know, like typical um Adventist theology or or ideas. Oh, I also what's I also want to say, um, I think I should go back a little bit, but the whole um problem with sexual sin that was kind of like um hidden away, I should say, during high school. I think during the gap year and when I first moved here, and you know, I didn't have those restrictions of like no phone and all of that, it I that the struggle kind of came back. And so I think a lot of what I was hearing was, you know, if you want to overcome and if you want to be victorious in your spiritual life, like as a Christian, then you have to be doing be doing all of these things, like reading your Bible and you know, um doing doing ministry. There was literally like a quote from um, I think it was, I forgot which book it was, but it was by Ellen White, where she had said something like, you know, the the greatest way to I guess obtain victory is by aggressive service. And I took that thing to heart, you know. Like, you know, did it work?
SPEAKER_00No, it didn't. You're like, I better go to the soup kitchen today, cuz uh like you know, in a sense in some ways I can see maybe you know, you know, I coach a lot of people with a porn habit, but guilt, condemnation, and shame, if you're not dealing with those things head on, and you're not actually looking at the root with curiosity, like what is driving me to this, and you're just trying to like if you think that porn is your problem, then you don't know your actual problem is uh I've got unregulated emotions, or I have anxiety, or I have fear, or I have all these things that's driving me back to this thing that helps me escape. Yeah, you're gonna we're gonna have problems. So, did the guilt, condemnation, shame like did it go away, or were you like you were trying to hide it or with with like aggressive service?
Michigan State Ministry And Burnout
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was basically trying to hide it with aggressive service. I think at that point I hadn't even told anybody in my life. Probably like in my sophomore year, I told my mom. I I had gone back home for like an internship, and um, yeah, I think something had come out of this like a sermon or something, and I just had a moment of conviction, like, oh, you need to tell somebody. But other than her, like I, you know, nobody knew about it. And for me, it was just aggressive service. I was like giving Bible studies and you know, doing all these things.
SPEAKER_00What would you have told somebody to how to overcome something? How would you have described it?
SPEAKER_03Um, I don't know that I'll be telling somebody about it, honestly. I probably will be telling them, do you know the Sabbath is Saturday? And do you know do you know the National Saturday law is coming for you? And yeah, that's that's really all I had to tell people. I had no personal story, no victory, nothing like that to share with people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Aggressive telling people about the Sabbath. You know, I I get it. So as you're going on, um, so you that was some of the baggage you picked up. Was there anything else that stuck with you?
SPEAKER_03Um I'm trying to think. Um I'll say like it's just like your your typical um Adventist understanding of things where I feel like we put like all of these disciplines that we we have to do. Actually, I I even like at some point I became vegan um because I had read a quote by Ellen White about like animal passions and meat, and I was like, that's it. No more.
SPEAKER_00It's these chicken fingers, that's why.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, I I changed the way that I dressed.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I was just making fun of that. But it is true that what you eat does have an impact on you. Um I would offer that if you're eating now. I don't want to sound I don't want to sound too crazy, but like the dessert table at our potlucks, like if you're eating grilled chicken and you're eating like lean ground beef and you're eating like turkey sausage in moderation, like that will not make you feel as bad as as going over to the dessert table in at the local potluck. And so while like eating healthy, super important, it will make you feel better, it will make you feel different. If you're eating cheeseburgers and throwing back Mountain Dews every day, that's gonna that's not great for you. But I I don't think it's like exciting animal passions as much as it is making you feel terrible that puts you on like a guilt condom shit condemnation shame loop, like making you trying to escape. Like, yeah, I can certainly see bad diet not great, and it and it can be a part of the problem. So I don't want to just throw that away and make fun of it. But yeah, I'm not sure about the animal passions. I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah. But I I think I I took it quite literally, um, you know, that this this is what it is, and this is this is what I have to to um give up.
SPEAKER_00But eating cucumbers all day and tomatoes, like it all worked then.
SPEAKER_03No, no, absolutely. I wish absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00Like, I'll just eat these peaches and everything's good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, at some point my mom actually called me to stop me. I mean, she she didn't know about the reason why I was being plant-based, but I used to, because of my scholarship, I was eating from the cafeteria all four years. I lived in the dorms all four years, and they didn't always have the best like healthy vegetarian or vegan option. And I'll just be eating like bread and peanut butter. My mom literally had to call me and be like, you need to stop this. This is unhealthy. I would rather you eat meat and be getting like proper nutrition than you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you're like in the West Coast, like they know what vegetarians eat on the west coast. In the Midwest, Michigan. I'm not sure they know they know what vegetarians eat in Michigan.
SPEAKER_02That's true. That's true.
SPEAKER_00So they're like, uh, potatoes and rice and corn, that's it for you. Or and then bread.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, if you're lucky, like some of the cafeteria, you might get like some tofu, but it just wasn't good. It just wasn't like a very just like practically, it just wasn't, it would just wasn't good for me.
SPEAKER_00So your mom was like, eat some meat, like you're you're unhealthy.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yep.
SPEAKER_00Interesting.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, and so I would say fast forward to towards the end of my um time at MSU, there was also a lot of like church politics that I kind of got thrown into because at some point I became like the fellowship leader, and even though we were just like a small like group, but I still had to like interact with like the pastor. So I hope I don't get into trouble for I'm not gonna go into any details, but um, there was just a lot of church politics that I kind of was like thrown into and almost became dissolution, like, oh my god, this is what happens behind the scenes, and this is this is not great. Um, so towards like the end, I'll say by my final year at MSU, I was just burnt out um from all of that ministry that I was doing, going so hard and you know, striving in my own strength, doing all of these things. And I was like, man, I'm out here like giving Bible studies and doing these things. And I had to take a look at myself. I'm like, what good news am I bringing people to? You know, like it's it's not good in my life. You know, I don't necessarily want to keep doing this. Um, so I kind of took us took a step back from all of that. And this was right around my graduation. When I was finished, I did work as a lab technician at MSU. So I was there for an extra year and I took back from all, like took a step back from all the activities. I wasn't teaching no Sabbath school, what you know, ASF, maybe I'll just like show up. But I was like, I just um I'm not doing well spiritually, and I just feel like a hypocrite. I'll say that the feeling of the hit the of being a hypocrite was all throughout, but especially towards the end. I'm like, I just cannot keep doing this. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did you uh did you ever date at Michigan State? Were you interested in in relationships or were you like, no, I'm like doing like school?
SPEAKER_03Um, I would say probably like in the first few years I wasn't um at all. Like I wasn't looking, I was just like about my books and church. Um towards the end, I was open. I probably talked to a couple of guys, but I never like got into like a full relationship with anybody. No.
SPEAKER_00So the plan was to graduate, and what was the next move?
SPEAKER_03Yes. So during the my time at MSU, I discovered like um research as well, like more on the academic side, and I loved it. So I decided that I wanted to pursue, you know, because I I came into Michigan State as pre-med. So I thought I was gonna continue to med school, but now I also want to do a PhD, so be an MD, PhD, and uh, you know, become a physician scientist. So this is that was not too much achievement.
SPEAKER_00Like I'm getting tired.
SPEAKER_03Like achieve less. I know, I know, I know, but I I do think I do think it is it is God's call. I feel like God has confirmed it over and over again to me recently. Oh no, do it, do it.
SPEAKER_00I'm not you've got the wherewithal. I don't, and so it stresses me.
Seeking Help Beyond Aggressive Service
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um I started studying for the MCAT. It was really hard, very hard time in my life because my visa was also at stake, and just so much uncertainty. If you're, you know, if anybody knows the application process is already stressful, and then being an international student, you have even less options. So I was just really stressed out during that time in my life and all the things that was going on spiritually as well. Um, and I think that was when I was like, okay, I really need to seek some real help. So I reached out to a friend of mine that I had met during one of my internships earlier when I was back at MSU. Like, she they lived in like the Bay Area. I did an internship in the Bay Area, and she had discovered Paul Carniff's ministry. Like, I think he wrote the hidden. I didn't have the gospel. Yes, yes. So she she had had like this powerful encounter, you know, with his like seminar series that he did at some time in Michigan. And so I had reached out to her. She had even given me the book, but I hadn't I hadn't read it. So I had reached out to her and I finally, I guess, like confessed to her what I had been struggling with. And you know, we started praying together. I don't know if you're familiar with like the whole cross prayer thing that they do, but um, and then eventually I was praying with um Pastor Carniff. And I think that was when we started you knew him? Yes, the guy. Yes. Oh wow, that's cool. Yes, yeah. I've never I've never met him in person, but I've been on like a lot of like virtual like calls. That's that's awesome. Yeah. And so I think that was when I started to really um, instead of just like aggressive service, like take a step back to really. try to understand like what is what is underneath you know all of this you know um and so I started praying with him and I a lot of the shame that I was carrying kind of started to go away um and around that say towards the end of that time I had moved to the Bay Area for another post back program that was like nine months and there I kind of continued kind of like exploring you know these same themes it was actually a very lonely time I think at that time he had gotten really busy so I wasn't praying with him as much and then my friend too had gotten busy so it was just me in the Bay Area living with like some old woman and just random going to work and coming home and um yeah I didn't have a lot of Christian community um there at all but I just took what what I would get so I think at some point I decided to go to celebrate recovery just not that I thought it was like the greatest because I I if even at that time I still knew that the whole concept of like oh identifying with your struggles I just knew you know it wasn't right. But for me I was like there's nothing else to do here in the Bay Area. Like all the churches I've been to like nobody really talks to you nobody's friendly. So I might just go to celebrate recovery. So I did that um during my time there and yeah actually not much happened during those like spirit in terms of spirituality during those like 10 months that I was there it was more towards the end. That was when more disappointment came. And I think at this point my disappointment in God has also had also taken on another form where it's like I can understand you not you know giving me these material things or like these worldly things like you know school scholarship or like grades or whatever. But I'm like this is like something spiritual that I'm I'm asking you to help me overcome and you're not doing anything about it. So that also added like another level of like um disappointment you know um in in God and so um I'm trying to think yes so towards my time there I had gained like I had I had applied to medical school done my interviews all of that and I had gained admission to Loma Linda for the MD PhD program and then to my homeschool MSU like the DO program. And um the all kind of like the doors kind of closed and Loma Linda was like now the only option that was there. But so the way MD PhD programs work is usually because of the PhD they'll cover your med school tuition you know you don't you you don't have to pay for tuition. So even though I had been offered the admission to Loma Linda they had not offered me that's that scholarship yet it's like a whole separate program. So they hadn't offered me that scholarship and so I wasn't sure I'm like what if I start and they don't give me the scholarship you know um but all the other doors had closed. Another thing too is like when I was working in the Bay Area um I was working with a bunch of scientists and a lot of them were bullies you know so I think I'd gotten to the point where I'm like I don't even know if I really want to do this science thing anymore because the people that kind of work in this field are kind of terrible and I don't like the professors or like like or just like people like they're like trying to condescend or make you feel stupid. Yes basically yeah so these are usually people who have had their their PhD so it was a company so when you get your PhD you can either go to academia or work in industry and they were like industrial like industry working PhD so they got their PhDs and then now they're doing research like at like a pharmaceutical or biotech company but a lot of them were just not great people and so and you know you give presentations and they'll just like rip you apart in front of everyone else. So I was like I don't want to do this. But then it just seemed like all the doors had kind of closed and O Melinda was like the only real option. So it was almost like begrudgingly I was like okay if this is what you want if this is what you want me to do God sure I would do that. But then again came another more of that layer of like you just never do what I want you know um even though he had given me a scholarship and literally like moved me across the world but again when you have that lens on that's kind of how you filter all of your experiences so for sure for sure so you get down to Loma Linda what year was it? 2020 oh right at the uh the worldwide pandemic pandemic yeah yeah it was it was rough and this was your first year medical school PhD program yeah first year of the of the PhD program yes because I was gonna start the medical school later after I had reapplied for the scholarship and like got in it yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay so how'd that go?
Loma Linda Pressure And Lab Trauma
SPEAKER_03So um as I said I moved here begrudgingly so I wasn't like super happy about it but I was just like I'm just gonna take what I what I have actually the first the first day the first week that I got here and my dad's friend had helped me like move furniture that I had bought from like Facebook Marketplace to my house and then I'd gone to his house to have dinner and his kids were there his kids were older like they had all of them had done like pharmacy at Loma Linda and then they they had heard that I was doing like in the PhD program and they're like oh you shouldn't do it we've had like all of these bad things like this person like you know did XYZ they went through all these horrible things and I just remember coming home and thinking what have I done what have I done to myself because you know they just didn't have a lot of positive things to to say about people's experiences. So I just remember being like man is this a terrible decision that I I made to like come here or not but I just I just kept going. But I'll say on the other side I was experiencing a lot of victory um in the area of my sexual sin. Pastor Conv had um introduced like recommended a book that I like read I think it's called Unwanted and that also helped it really unpacking a lot of like what's underneath and then also I had joined like some online groups through authentic intimacy um kind of like recovery groups where you read like a book together and then you kind of like you're really you were really going for it. You're really sincere yeah I was that's awesome yeah um but even in the sincerity I think there was also a part of it that felt like I'm taking all these efforts towards God and God is not even meeting me halfway but you know that that because I feel like I had been doing all of that even at MSU reading all of these books. But finally during the pandemic I was starting to really experience like victory in that in that area of my life and I was like this is great you know but then things took a turn you know at the end of my first year you usually the Ph in your first year you just rotate in different labs and then you pick which lab you're gonna do your dissertation work in. So I picked a lab and my PI when I first met her she was really great very nice very sweet. Even to this day I think there's there are things that can be sweet about her but things took a turn really quickly and she just was not the person that I thought she was when I was like picking the lab. And so our our working relationship just was really hard and yeah borderline abusive. So it was it was just really hard and I felt like I was stuck I couldn't switch labs because then if you switch labs you have to start all over again. So it was just a very like hard time just mentally I was always crying I was complaining um and then I was also behind because my the project that we had chosen was just technically very difficult. I was working with human samples and it required me to wake up at all hours of the night to go into like the the the hospital to get you know these human samples to work on my PhD. So the combination of the chronic sleep deprivation and the hardworking relationship and you know everything else just even feeling like I didn't want to come to Loma Linda just kind of all compounded together and it was just a really really really hard time um here. And I I just felt I felt like man God you've disappointed me I didn't want to come here you brought me here and now look at all these problems that I am like running into so this place starts in 2023 and yeah I'll say that was the time that I came across Live Reality actually for the third time the third time yes actually what were the what were the first and second times so actually when I remembered I remember that the first time because I have been following Justin um for like a while from his that Christian vlogger days so I think I had seen an invitation church yes he's so cool so you were following him back when he was like super conservative that Christian vlogger explaining okay yeah so um but then this was like during the pandemic I think I had just downloaded Instagram and so I followed him there and he had posted an invitation to internet church and I actually like went I think it was the day that you recorded um Jonathan Leonardo's podcast because I remember when I went back to listen to it I was like oh I I remember this I've like heard I've like heard this this story um but that that was the first time it I kind of went I was like oh that's cool I just never came back and then the second time a friend of mine had sent me the video of Jonathan Leonardo I think it's in front of a beach where he's like you were free from sin. Yes I was like this is this is so powerful um and I think that was probably like around 2021 and then 2023 um I came across Hannah's podcast because I'd been following Hannah Reyes I think now her last name is Reyes yes yes um since my college days she had a blog that I used to follow so I don't even know how to did you ever met her no she she probably doesn't even know who I am but you know it's kind of like their family was kind of known in the conservative circle so I guess you know I just kind of knew off them. But yeah I somehow stumbled upon what was her blog about it was just her personal like relationship with God and just sharing a lot of nuggets about things she was learning you know and I I really loved it. I was like man she's so sincere and she really knows God she's awesome yeah she's awesome yeah so um I I came across her podcast episode and then I listened to it and I think I listened to Ian's later on after that and then I was hooked and I just like started listening to all the stories. I probably listened to like 50 of the podcasts in like a span of a month that's how hard I was like going yes I listened to so many of them. What what were you gathering from what like the what people were saying yeah I just I I wouldn't say I fully understood what was going on but I just had never heard such powerful transformation like anywhere in my entire Christian life you know and I just knew that there was there was something different you know how people were speaking without any shame about their past and you know how much transformation they had experienced uncomfortable when they'd be like yeah I used to do that at first where you're like oh why are you saying that on the podcast yeah no yeah at first I was like oh my god why would you say that on on the podcast like we're listening and then you're like let me listen more why would you say that say it again so I I I was just like just really almost like binging because I was doing experiments in the lab I'll just have my headphones on and it's a lot of manual like pipetting and stuff and I'll just be like listening listening listening um to to the pucker but I still didn't didn't quite understand what I just knew it was different but I was like I'm like this is something special but I still don't know I still don't really but then also you would throw in some like nuggets here and there and I'm like hmm that's deep you know but okay let's go all right every once in a while I say something about God I'm like God loves you you're like okay so yeah I'm like I have no idea but this is cool and I just kept listening. And so I started coming to some of the the Bible studies actually I think I definitely um the the Sunday one by Justin I think I came to yours too a couple of times you probably don't remember but I actually remember when you put me on the spot like the very first day I came to you I'm like who are you what what who is this person?
SPEAKER_00Anybody shows it to my Bible study instant regret they're like why is he talking to me?
Bingeing Testimonies And Romans 6
SPEAKER_03I'm like I just want to know I'm curious yeah um but yeah so I I started coming to the the Bible study and for me I just felt like if I just kept coming and kept listening you know somehow I will I will understand it you know and I think I was starting to to to get it you know like okay this is clearly stated you know in Romans 6 you know or Romans 7 and was that the main idea the freedom from sin was that the main idea that you're like okay this is different yes yes yes totally totally um and so I just kept listening um attends were you familiar at all with Romans 6 from before that you know it's funny because when I read it again it just seemed like I have never read this in my life but I'm pretty sure I did but you read it through probably a different lens. Yeah exactly exactly so for for the first time I was like oh my god and it to me it was like it's so plain here that you know I don't like I guess I I I didn't see it but it's just literally what's said here. You know they're not even like twisting anything or trying to say anything. But yeah and then I I got so excited I'll send it to like my friends and you know some of them will be like be careful it's like one particular friend who that I had that was what trying to like warn me at one point we'd be going into an argument over it and I was like bruh I don't know what to tell you.
SPEAKER_00Were we already controversial back then or was it not as controversial? No you were definitely you were yeah so did you feel like ooh I'm kind of like with this group of people and they're so controversial but then when you were there we weren't really saying anything too controversial?
Gospel Gathering Peace And Abba Prayer
Dad’s Cancer And A Crisis Of Trust
SPEAKER_03Yes actually the thing is I I didn't even think you were controversial and until I talked to my friend and she was like oh you know by the way I think she she she knew people in the Hawaiian conference you know okay um she and her husband so they had been fed a lot of things and so when I was telling her about these things she was like yeah be careful this and that and that and I'm like I don't know what y'all talking about. It's just they're just literally repeating what's what's you know in the Bible I haven't seen anything controversial. If I see anything controversial I will let you know but so far you know I haven't heard anything that's like you know um and then they'll they'll they'll say things like oh do you know they teach it I'm like no they don't I attended wave one and that's not how how he explained it at all and then I'll try to like you know explain it the the best I can and they'll be like well Ellen White says and they'll just shut it down and I'm like okay okay sure fair enough so yeah um so I kept listening and on and off on and off so I'll say 2025 was when I came for the gospel gathering. Were you nervous about coming out I I wouldn't say I was nervous but it was just more so like Lord I've been listening to this I don't I still don't really get it let's go see what happens really that's that's really did you really not get it or was it like you hadn't made it personal for you at that point good you know what you're probably right because I I I I think I had listened enough to maybe be able to like describe it but I wouldn't say that I understood it like in a personal experience you know kind of way you know right um so it was just more like head knowledge and and even that I wouldn't I wouldn't even know if I I wouldn't say that I understood it 100% all the way um but yeah I came to the gospel gatherer I think I was late the the first day because I had to I had to like ask for permission for my P I was like a a whole long day she I almost it's it's a far it's a long drive yes yes yes yeah yeah so um I came there and I think you know the the first night was just more of the good same stuff that I was hearing I was I was seeing the faces of all these stories that I had listened to and I was like oh my this is this is so cool and you know you know it's just seeing it in in like in like real life and how kind people were I think I was talking to um Ashton and um what's the name Bianca and I'm like oh you know it's not I guess it kind of made it real because at first it's like these people online that I don't know and they're just saying whatever and now it's like oh I'm actually meeting them in person it's like is is the real deal whatever I'm hearing on the podcast or on the Zoom is like it's like the real deal like right right in front of me. Yeah and so I think like um the Saturday as I was about to leave because you know my my PI had texted me to like come to the lab and do something and then you had seen me in the kitchen area and we like started talking and um yeah I think if I remember I think what you said that stood out to me was you were not your thoughts. That that was something that really like um resonated really with me. It's like if something if you think if something comes into your head you don't necessarily have to like own it and um yeah actually I don't remember a lot of the details of what we actually talked about. I just remember coming outside and like you know confessing to the group you know that I am the right I I forgot exactly what I said you know um and then I decided not to go I was like you know if my PA gets mad she can be mad. I'm not going to the laptop so yeah but I just felt like um I still felt like I didn't have all the understanding like in terms of like the theology but I just knew that something was different. Something was very different when I was driving home I just felt like a lot of peace and even the weeks after that I'll say for the first time I wasn't seeing God as like this person who didn't care and um because yeah I feel like that that that was like a theme where I was like my my God just doesn't care about me and he's doing all of these things for people and he just doesn't care about me. And for the first time I could really relate to God as like my father, you know and um when I came back things weren't exactly easy because I was trying to wrap up my PhD so I can start the med school I had a limited amount of time and things were not working out. Like the the time was like getting away from me and then my PI will like threaten me like I won't let you start medical school or your your committee will not let you start medical school if you don't stay here till like 12 midnight or whatever. You know it's just like stuff like that. And I just remember feeling so much peace and just so unfazed. I'm like okay you know God God God has got me you know if if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen. If it's not gonna happen you know it is it is what it is. But yeah I just remember feeling a lot of peace a lot of trust in God seeing God as my father I think that was the first time that I started praying and calling God Abba like for the first time in my life. Oh wow yeah and so you would think like it would be like a trajectory um so I think that probably went on for like maybe a couple of months and things got really intense as I was wrapping it up to start the PhD and I think I I didn't prioritize like um community. That's something that now I have learned especially because there aren't a lot of churches that are teaching this stuff and there aren't a lot of people in my life necessarily who kind of operate in this way. And so if you're being bombarded Lies from the devil, you just kind of kind of like have no voice to counteract it sometimes. Yeah. So life got busy, things got really hard, and I stopped coming to like the Bible studies and stuff. Things got really, really busy. And then I started med school, all was fine. About a month into med school, my dad was diagnosed with cancer, and everything just kind of came to a stop. That was like the ultimate betray. Oh my God. I'm like, how could you? Like of all the things that could happen, because I had a fear that I had been in school for so long, and my parents had us when they were a little bit older. So I'd had this fear that, you know, what if by the time I finish and you know I get a job, my parents are no longer here? That's like a real, like a big fear of mine. And so I was like, no, me starting med school, and then now my dad is diagnosed with cancer. It's bad timing because med school is hard. And if you have anything like that, at the background, it just makes it hard to study. It makes it hard to like pass your classes. And it was just so disappointing. I think that was a time where I really needed community, but I had just I isolated myself and the lies just kept growing to the point of despair. Like even one of my friends was telling me, she was like, I've never seen you lament like this in all the three years that I've known you. And I'm like, at that point, I'm like, I I don't want to, you know, put up any any any appearances. I'm just very disappointed. I'm mad at God. This is this this is not fair. And I just kept going. I ended up failing like a couple of my exams, and I'm like, well, great. This is something that we have to like deal with as well. So it was just really hard. And I feel like the people in my life were very worried because I just sounded like I was about to walk away from God and walk away from like everything. And so I'll say things took a turn. Um, December of last year, just like three months ago, I went to church and the pastor had preached a sermon about trusting God. You know, it was just simple, you know. Um, but I just remember sitting there crying and just kind of making the decision, like, man, how did I end up back here? Of like feeling um all of these negative feelings towards God and just not trusting him and feeling like everything is like chaos and feeling such despair in my life. And so it was almost like a decision where I'm like, okay, the lies just stopped today. Like, I'm not gonna continue to allow the devil to to bully me like this. Like, no. It just, it just, it just ends today, and I just made that decision. So during the Christmas, I went to visit my sister in Phoenix. So I didn't have a lot of personal time to like reflect and all of that. So I was like, you know, sleeping on basically couch surfing. Um but then when I came back, I picked back up the book No Longer I. I had bought it some months before. And this was like probably like early January, mid-January. I started reading that book, and finally everything just kind of like made sense. Like the way in which he explained everything in the book. And I think probably because I'm a little bit also very logical, I feel like that that needed to happen. I needed to see it all like spelled out, like the the whole theology of it. Um, and so it was just a crazy moment, you know, for me. Oh, before that, I think before I was even ready to kind of receive what was in the book, I had also attended another um um seminar series by Ty Gibson and um David Asherik. They came to the Molanda in the new year. And I kind of went in with an agenda, like, okay, this is gonna like put me back where I wanted to be. And I just remember like leaving with just this conviction that I think he explained it based on Jesus' life, how Jesus, as a child or as he was working on this earth, didn't necessarily have like vivid flashbacks or vivid memories of him being in heaven. Like, oh, I was in heaven and you know, I was in charge of the angels, and the angels were like worshiping me, or I was with God the Father. But in a way, he had to um by faith believe that he was the son of God, you know, in spite of him being confined to his human body and having human experiences. So for me, it just kind of was kind of like a moment of like, wow, there really is a different reality outside of what I see and outside of you know these lens that I put on, where it's like whatever is happening around me, that's just it. This is just the proof of what God is doing or what what God is not doing. And so that kind of opened the door. And then when I read no longer I, um I just kind of finally understood it all. And I was like, wow, God has done so much for me, um, so much that almost like everything else that I was worrying about just kind of like faded away. Like this is what Jesus has done. And for me, I I think I probably cried for like a whole hour. And everything else from my life earlier on, all the times where I was like, man, I'm such a hypocrite. Um I was like, no, I wasn't a hypocrite. I just that was the evidence that, you know, God had made me new and had given me a new heart and new desires. I desire the things of God. Although maybe at times it may have been misguided, but that was the evidence that I have a new heart, that when I was baptized, you know, um, this is what God had done. I wasn't, it wasn't my desire to like, you know, you know, engage in sexual sin, or it wasn't my desire to do all of these things. I I had just only been deceived into thinking that, you know, this is this is what I want and this is this is who I am. Um and yeah, I was just praising God um for weeks. Like, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. It's so plain in here, and I'm so thankful um for for what you have done um in in Christ.
No Longer I And Freedom From Sin
SPEAKER_00So yeah. So if someone is just like what what do you even believe? Like, what is this thing like if you go to like you're in Loma Linda, which I've often said that is probably the most confusing place to be an Adventist because there's every single kind of Adventism is in Loma Linda, there it's all right there. Like if you're going to like I don't know, a church there and and someone's like, Well, you say you're free from sin, like what do you even mean? What does that mean? What would you like? How would you minister to someone who's like, Well, what are you even talking about?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, I'll probably just point them to Romans and be let them know that it says here that you are free from sin. Um, that um in Christ, like when when when when you were baptized, the old you was is dead with Christ, and you are now resurrected in him, and so whatever Jesus Christ is, you know, he is righteous, you know. Um you you are that you are that right now, and the way that you access that is to believe that this is what God has made you, regardless of um whatever your whatever is in front of you. So your circumstances, even your failings, you know, in the moment, it doesn't change your your your status with God. The the real truth is that this is what Jesus has done. He has made you righteous, um, he has made you, he has given you the power. Um how do I put it? You you are free from sin in Christ. And the way that you can you know access that is if you believe it and if if you have faith. And if you're struggling, you can be like, Lord, help my unbelief, help me to see, you know, how you have made me righteous. And that is how the transformation that needs to happen will happen in your life, not trying to do it by your own self.
SPEAKER_00If you could go back to East Lansing and get this girl who's aggressively serving, but it's kind of you got to put your arm around her and minister to her. What would you tell her?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll tell her that all the things that you're working for, that you're praying for, God has already done it in Jesus Christ. It's already finished, you already accomplished it on the cross, and you don't have to do all of these things to receive it, to accept it. It's already yours. You just need to believe.
SPEAKER_00Man alive. I'm pumped up just hearing that. You know, we you know, when I met you last year and I got to see you again. Um I've just seen this life in you. And like last year, you were like, what's going on? This year, you're just like, yeah, this is this is the gospel, y'all. Like, this is it, this is what we believe, and it's so encouraging. And yeah, you're a city on a hill, and you're flavoring this thing. And um I just want to say thank you for sharing this testimony with us, and I think it's beautiful. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.