#272 Jessica: What If The Gospel Sounds Like Being Wanted

Some stories don’t start with rebellion. They start with devotion that slowly turns into a cage.

We talk with Jessica from the Pacific Northwest about growing up around faith after God rescued her family, then spending years trying to “do it right” with relentless zeal. The deeper she went into religious performance, the more her inner world fell apart: suicidal thoughts, constant mental warfare, and a view of God that felt like tolerance instead of love. A painful relationship and deep shame only tightened the loop, until a moment overseas in Guam exposed what she couldn’t see yet: she believed she could only approach Jesus with fear, not with closeness.

From there, Jessica walks us through stepping away from the systems that formed her, rebuilding her faith through Scripture, and wrestling with the question that many Christians avoid: what if the gospel really means freedom, not just forgiveness? She shares a seven-year stretch of severe physical breakdown, panic attacks, and loss that forced everything to the surface, and the turning point where God challenged her to “tame it”, not through willpower, but through renewing the mind and replacing lies with truth. We connect the dots between identity in Christ, nervous system overwhelm, religious trauma, and the healing that can follow when you finally see God as a Father who smiles over you.

If you’ve ever felt trapped by shame, terrified you’ll never be “enough,” or exhausted from carrying the weight of the world, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review so more people can find these stories of death to life.

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Transcript

Why Transformation Still Happens

SPEAKER_03 1:44

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life. Yo, welcome to the Death to Life Podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's guest, I have never met in person. We've been doing some of these where I've never met them, but they encouraged me so much on Internet Church. And we've been playing like phone tag on when we were gonna do this podcast. It feels like at least for a year or half a year. I don't know. But today we have uh Jessica, and I don't know how to say her last name, if it's Clonius or Clonius, we're gonna find out when we do the um the episode. But uh, she has a story of how God has shown her how much he loves her, and she's received it. So this is going to be a blessing to you, and you're gonna get to hear her heart. So buckle up and strap in, love y'all and appreciate y'all. The next voice you'll hear is that of Jessica. Was that cool? Was that a good intro?

SPEAKER_02 3:05

That was good, that was that was beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

How how do we say your last name?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

It's Colonius.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Colonius?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Okay, Colonius. Yeah. Uh, but there just there's no O between the L. It's just clonius. It looks like it reads clones.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

You just gotta just clonius. You just gotta throw it out there. Clonius.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Cloniest. Clonius. All right, Jessica, where where are we starting this thing? Where are you taking us back? I know people say, well, I'll probably just go to the beginning. Um, where are you taking us?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Honestly, I think I think I'd have to go to the vacation. Let's do it. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Where are you from? What part of the country are you from?

SPEAKER_02 3:46

So I am from the Pacific Northwest. I am from around Olympia, Washington area. Okay. Um, the green lush beauty of here. Um, and I love it. It rains too much, it's a little too dreary for me, but the greenery. Yeah, I can't beat a Pacific Northwest summer.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

So hey, pick up that mic and see if hold on one second. Pick up that mic and see if I'm picking it up through that mic, if it's that. Hello. Yeah, it is that, but I can't hear it very well when it's on your shirt. You m do you want to hold it like speaking into the mic? Let's see if that works. That's fine. Is that better? It is better. Is it is it awkward for you?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

No.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

That's fine. Alright, cool. Alright, cool. So you're from the from the northwest and Olympia. How far is that from Seattle?

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Uh it's about an hour and a half. Two hours, depending on traffic.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Okay. And your parents are from there, or where are your parents from? Are they from that area?

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yeah, so most Yeah, so most of my family

Meeting Jessica From Washington

SPEAKER_02 4:48

is from this area, um, born and raised.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yep. Both sides.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

And so did you have a religious background or your parents were religious? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

So my parents were not religious, anything like that when I was growing up. Uh very partying. Um, my dad was into drugs, things like that. And then when I was around five was when things kind of um, glory to God, kind of imploded. And that's when like this like came out my dad was on meth, all these different types of things. And so uh one of my earliest memories is actually my mom telling me that she was gonna be kicking my dad out of the house. And so that's one of my earliest memories as a kid. And so when that happened, um, my dad kind of hit rock bottom, and they were like, We need help. And so they started going to a small group at someone's house, and that's how they were introduced to the Lord, and that's how we ended up in the church, and so I had this really beautiful opportunity from a really young age to see like the powerful hand of God be able to heal a family. Um, and so God was very real to me from a very young age because stuff like that just doesn't just magically happen, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Um, and I I know, I don't know for what reason, but God had his hand on me from such a young age. Like I I can remember just feeling the presence of God. I'm talking like nine, ten years old, and just like hands in the air, as eyes closed, like feeling the presence of God. And and

A Family Healed From Addiction

SPEAKER_02 6:48

I remember just like wanting to just read my Bible and just knowing that this presence was real. And um looking back, it it was incredibly beautiful and incredibly special. Um, and we were part of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. And so being that I was like, dude, if there's one word that would describe me most of my life is gonna be the word zealous. Okay. So I was I was zealous about the Lord, about when I, when my eyes were open to like the hurting in the world that other people were not living the same life I was living, dude, that there was no going back for me. I was like gung-ho about doing anything I could, like hosting compassion international events at my church. Like I would sit out in the four-year afterwards, like trying to basically like get people, like begging people to like sponsor kids. Like I I oh, it's gonna make me cry. Like, I had such a passion and I believed in God so much, and even at a young age, it frustrated me why other people couldn't see it, couldn't feel it. Um and so and I guess I'll just like dive in and be honest because I I'm just asking the Holy Spirit to just direct my words in this, and so because I was so I loved God so, so much, um, that as I began to get older, I wanted to learn as much as I could. And so I started going as deep as I could into the religion that I was a part of. I wanted to learn everything possible that I could. Like I was the weird kid that like as

Zeal Turns Into Pressure

SPEAKER_02 8:47

like a young preteen, the youth group would be going to like the water park, and there'd be this like 80-year-old guy that was visiting our church gonna do a Holy Spirit seminar, and I'm like, have fun at the water park, and I'm like so excited there with my notebook like ready to like devour. Like, I like I was the type of kid that like was up every day at 6 15 praying for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Like I was I was so zealous for the Lord, and um in that zealousness, like I said, I just wanted to learn everything that I could, and I really started to um learn more about the religion aspect of it, and that's when things kind of started uh shifting and um I started experiencing a lot more like I started to have like suicidal things probably around the age of like 12, and I didn't know what was going on, I didn't know why this was happening, um, but I there was like a constant war in my mind, and I didn't understand why, and I didn't understand a lot of what was going on. I just knew that I loved God and that I was supposed to learn all these things and be these certain ways if I loved God. I was supposed to, you know, follow his commandments, and and when I'm given like a directive, I am stinking obedient, dude. Like if someone was like, this is exactly what you need to do, I'm gonna be like done, and it's gonna be better than you've ever seen. Like literally, I was a kid that like in my room, I it looked like a crazy scientist's lab in my room, not even that, but like just a crazy person's room because it was just like papers and stickers and everything all over my room with Bible verses, and like like it was just wild when you walked to my room. But one of the biggest things that I had up on my room was uh good, better, best, never let it rest until your good is better and your better is your best. And that was my view towards my relationship with God was that he was so good to me that I was going to be as good as I could for him, and I was going to learn as much as I could for him, and I was going to follow his commandments as best as I could and out of love. And and so there's different directions I could go in explaining my life and walk. Um Lord give me a direction in this.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Um how long did this zeal last, would you say, in this way?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

In this way, dude. Into my into my 20s. Into my 20s.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Um so through high school, you were like super zealous for like living this life?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Oh man. Okay, so yeah, so like come high school time, I homeschooled myself, worked almost full time as a nanny while I was trying to graduate as quickly as possible so that I could get out into the mission world. Like I was, when I say zealous, like I was like a freak. And so like I get to my junior year and I'm like, oh, yeah, like I'm so excited. I'm like talking to like layman's ministries, I'm talking to like all these places. I'm like, boy, I'm out of here as soon as I'm like graduated, like the world, because to me, okay, so what was the mindset that I had was that when Jesus gave the Great Commission, you know, like go therefore into all nations, baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them everything I commanded to you, and then the end will come. In my brain, if we just rallied together, if we just did the thing, if we just went out and proclaimed and told everybody, then the end could come. In my brain, the suffering of the world was being prolonged because of our laziness. So in my little brain, I was like, there are kids in sex trafficking because we're not getting it together. Like there, like I was like, I was so zealous for telling anyone and everyone I could about Jesus because in my childlike brain, I believed that it would end the suffering in the world, finally.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

And so um There's something really beautiful about that that heart.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

There is, but also, too, I didn't what I didn't realize, and this will play into the thing next, was from a very young age, I started carrying the weight of the actual world, life and death, on my shoulders. And as a kid, to carry that, I didn't realize how heavy that was. Um and so, anyways, I get to my junior year and I'm like, hot dog, I'm gonna graduate. And they're like, actually,

Mission Mindset Meets High School

SPEAKER_02 14:22

um, you're one credit short. And it's chemistry, and I couldn't do an in-lab chemistry while being homeschooled because back then, like, that's when homeschool was like not as great as it is today. And so I'm like, what do you like, what do you mean? And the school district is like, well, uh, we need you to take it at the public high school, but you can't just take one class, we're gonna need you to come here full time. And I was like, What? I was like, my whole plans of everything were like shot. And and I had gone to public school a few times in my life, but most of the time I was in Adventist schooling. And and so, anyways, I was like, you know what? Okay, like this is gonna be my mission field. I'm gonna go into this high school, and I'm gonna be like, I was like, yes, sir, like soldier has had been given its orders. Like, I was like, I'm gonna do this. And so I go into our little public high school, and mind you, like when you come into a tiny high school, like we don't even have a stoplight, like we're tiny, okay. When you come into a your senior year at a tiny high school, you are like fresh meat, first of all, and none of the girls like you. So I was like, you know, like, and so the Lord ended up doing amazing things during that year. Um, I ended up meeting some of my closest friends, and uh we ended up like starting a youth group. So many kids that never came to church before had come, we're exposed to the gospel, we're exposed to to worship, we're exposed to so many beautiful things, and and during that time was so beautiful. But there was a part in me that became a little too comfortable with the world during that time. You know, like I was going to parties and stuff, being the only person that wasn't drinking. Everyone knew, everyone knew Jessica was a virgin, didn't drink, didn't smoke, like all those things. Like she like never even kissed anybody. Like I was like straight lace, dude. Like I I like could have been considered like an Adventist nun, dude. I was like, I was like so, so devout. And so um, I do think this part needs to be talked about, and so then after I graduate, my whole plan of like moving, becoming a missionary and everything, I was in a very confused place in my life because I once was this zealous, driven, knew what I wanted to do girl. And now I was starting to feel just really confused, and there was this boy in our town, probably one of the worst boys in our town, that started like pursuing me. And of course, my empathetic heart, like I had shut down every other boy before. I was like, no, no, no, no. But there was just something in my heart I was like, I want this, I want this boy in the kingdom, I want this boy in the kingdom. So if anyone's listening, missionary dating never works, okay? Never ever works. And so I start dating this boy, okay. And mind you, before this, like I was like teaching purity classes at like youth rallies, like I everyone knew I wore my purity ring, like all this stuff, and it was such a part of my identity. And like I started writing few letters to my future husband when I was 16. Like I was like, I was like my view of my life was anyways, just so pure. And anyways, during this relationship, my innocence ended up being taken unwillfully, if that if you catch my drift. And in my eyes, I was worthless at that point. Like I I felt tainted beyond tainted, like, like I felt, and at this point, I had developed this view of God that how would I how would I describe it? So, my view of God, so while I saw his beauty, I could feel his beautiful presence, I had adopted this view of God that he was love, yes, but we as humanity had messed everything up. And God, out of his mercy, which was more tolerance for us, saved us, but we were still considered like filthy rags to him because you know, like our righteousness was as filthy rags, and that I was gonna spend the rest of my life basically thanking him for this gift that

Trauma Sparks Shame And Worthlessness

SPEAKER_02 19:06

I did not deserve, and that like someday when I got to heaven, like I I fully planned like literally living at his feet, bowing to him, saying holy, holy, holy for the rest of my life. Like I had this view of God that like was so like, yes, he was love, but I was filth to him, and he he just basically like pulled me out of the gutter and like let me live, basically. And so I was like I how would I say this? Yeah, I just was not doing well. I find journals from that period of my life, and all it is is like, God forgive me, God, I'm filth, God, like just these pouring out to God, God changed my heart, God help me to be holy, God help me to follow your commandments, help like it was just this girl begging for for forgiveness, begging for I just wanted to be okay in his sight, but I in my mind I knew that I never was and I never would be because I was a sinful human being. And so um after that whole relationship ended, I literally was like, it was really bad. It lasted a while and it was really bad, and there's a lot more that goes into that. But after that, I was like a shell of a person. And I remember I was looking at the gleaner, and there was this in the back of the gleaner, there was an event for an organ youth for Christ event, and I was like, dude, I have to go to this. I have to go to this. And so I convinced one of my best friends, I was like, let's go down to Oregon and go to this Oregon Youth for Christ. And I and so we ended up going down there. We knew nobody, nothing like that. And it was being held at the which I didn't know at the campus of the evangelism or mission college of evangelism was where it was being held. And so we go there and we had this weekend, and it was like me and my best friend were both we were in need of um what's the word? We had not been living correctly, and we were both in in need of a fresh start, as many young teenage girls that have gone down wrong paths can feel like.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

And so at this event, dude, we ended up just meeting these amazing people, and that's when I found out about Mission College, and I was like, sign me up. I was like What is Mission College? Okay, so Mission College of Evangelism is a training college where you go and learn how to do basically, you go and have like a deep dive in all things Adventism. First of all, you learn everything, and then you are trained to go door to door to do Bible studies, to lead people to baptism, the evangelistic series, like all the things like you're taught how to sow, reap, harvest, basically, is like what the mindset of it is.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

And so I'm like, sign me up. And uh anyways, long story short, I was gonna go by myself. And I was like

Oregon Event Leads To Guam

SPEAKER_02 22:22

stoked because I'm like, God, I I felt like at this point, I was like, I have messed my life up so badly. I, you know, from from 16-year-old Jessica who was like gonna be a missionary, just this like beautiful little soul to like now I felt just like this piece of trash on the side of the road that Jesus was like, was like pitying. Um and so I signed up for mission college and was gonna be going by myself. And then I got an opportunity to go to New York and do inner city work where we did evangelism, like street evangelism in New York. And while I was there, I get this phone call and they're like, we're gonna actually move mission college from Oregon to the island of Guam. Have you ever heard of Guam? And I was like, straight no, I have never heard of the island of Guam, but apparently I'm gonna be living there. And so then at this point, because people heard it was gonna be on Guam, like a bunch of my other friends signed up to go.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

And that's more appealing.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Guam is more appealing. Apparently, Guam living on a tropical island has an appeal, you know. Apparently.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

I mean, I apparently Okay, maybe I didn't know Guam was like had that tourist attraction, but what year is this?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

So this is probably okay, so I am f out of high school. I graduated in 09, so this is probably like 2010.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

During this time. And anyways, I get to mission college and I am man. Okay, so backtrack of smidge. My type of personality is like uh I literally even have this in my journal and stuff. Like, I was like, you will have time to be be happy in heaven, like like duty over pleasure every time. Like I was literally like so gung-ho and so driven most of my life that like I didn't believe in like like I when I say that I believed that like I lived, slept, ate, drank the Great Commission because I wanted the suffering in the world to end. Like I was like, so like there was there was periods of time when I was younger. So I'm gonna backtrack for a moment. Like I was so gung ho about all of this, like, like I Got involved with Maranatha and was did a Maranatha trip. And then they ended up like um doing like a spotlight on me, and I had like camera crews follow me down for a second trip. And like I was so obsessed. But even on those trips, like if there was whitewater rafting or something like that, I was like, how could I ever spend the time to go whitewater rafting when there are more souls to be saved? Like I was so like, like I couldn't have fun straight up. Like that's the only way to say it. Like I couldn't have fun. I didn't really.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

This is before you were wilding out. This is no fun.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

This is before. But even wilding out, like, no, I was the girl at the party taking care of everybody, not drinking, the girl that was like in the corner talking to people about like how they don't need like I was like even then, it wasn't party girl Jessica. This was like tormented sitting at a party girl. Like I was never, there was never like a whoo free, free season of Jessica. Like no, that just didn't know that did not exist. Like when I said good, better, best, never let it rest until your good is better and your better is your best. Like I meant it. Like I was like, even in, even in my like darkest, even when I was in the relationship with that terrible boy, like I was leading him to Jesus. Like one of the last things he said to me was like, Thank you for teaching me about the Lord. And I'm like, you're welcome, dude. Like, that's all like I like that is literally like I was, anyways. So, um, and so we get to Guam, and you know, like everyone's wanting to enjoy these like li island luxuries, and I'm like struggling because I'm like, bro, like we're here for a mission, like we're here for like get that virgin pina collada out of my face. Oh, for sure. I'm like, why do you guys want to go sit on the beach? We should go like door to door. We should like you want to study, you want to study? I got some L White, we can study, you know. Like, I'm like, I was just I was too much. Okay, I was too much. But here's where things start to shift. Here's where things start to shift in my story. My mind, I literally would wake up every day begging God for forgiveness, like I did. I felt, I felt like I owed him out of out of repayment my life, and I felt worthless in all these things, but I was like, I relate so much to Saul in the Bible, like I relate so much to Saul in the Bible, and like Saul before Paul, that Paul. Anyways, um, and I remember we had, you know, we had done our training courses and we had had our Bible studies with people, and it's time for the evangelistic series when we lived in Guam. And I'm in this back prayer room, and we're supposed to be, you know, like praying and and uh you know, just preparing our people in prayer to hear this word, and da da da. And I remember there was somebody got up and asked this question like, if the first time you get to see Jesus, what are you gonna do? And I remember my first thought was I'm gonna drop to his feet and just be bawling and like kiss his feet and just like like thank you. I'm sorry. Like that was my mindset. And I remember there was this woman, her name was Geraldine. And she stood up. She, I think she literally, she literally stood up and she goes, Oh, when I and she was Australian, so she just even her voice sounded like butter, dude. And she got up and she was like, When I see Jesus, I'm gonna run to him and just give him the biggest bear hug. And just the joy and love in this woman's voice. And when she was talking about just hugging Jesus, I remember just being like, Whoa, but like first, my brain was like, the audacity. Like I was like, like my brain was like, that's what I was so positioned in was like,

The Question That Exposed Her View

SPEAKER_02 28:31

we're all such filthy sinners that like we are in need of so much forgiveness. Like, how dare you think you can run to Jesus? That was my first thought, my first Pharisee type mindset, dude. And and then I hear this, and I remember sitting there and being like, whoa, like there are people that feel that way about God. And I was like, and I don't. And I was like, that was the first like ding ding ding in my brain that I was like, I might not actually understand God as much as I think I do. And and here I am, all like pious and studied, and like I could tell you all about Daniel and Revelation and all, like I could, I could like, I had also gotten into like the uh faithful unto death. I don't know if you were anyways, I was if there's some people in like Samuel Pippam, and it's like faithful unto death, like these types of things where you like pledge basically that if like you were starving to death and somebody was gonna offer you some beans but it had pieces of ham in it, would you starve to death or would you or would you like like basically like disgrace God and consume like these were the type like this was the type of stuff that I was being fed, these are the types of of theologies that I was being raised up in and in my mindset was the more that I love Jesus, the oh, because another thing that I was being raised up in, and these are just things that like I you know these people didn't know, you know, and that's the thing is that like I have so much like how Jesus said on the cross, like father forgive them, they don't know what they're doing. Like people didn't know what they were teaching me. I was I was zealous, I was hungry, you know, like I wanted to learn about God, and this is what they thought they knew, you know, about God. And um, that I was also taught that the character that you develop on earth is the character that you are going to go into heaven with. So if it's not good enough here on earth, you ain't making it. And so, um, anyways, I get I I finished my time in Guam. I stayed after and like taught English as a second language at the Guam Adamist Academy, and like I just it was just a beautiful time, but this is when it starts rolling around in my head, like, huh, like like I I have lost my first love. Like I had lost my first love. I had lost that little girl that would praise Jesus in her room, I had lost the joy of the Lord, like I had lost I had lost that that intimate relationship with something beautiful, and and so I ended up moving back home and uh during that time was when I ended up running in so another backstory when I was in high school because I was so gung-ho, I went to a technical training training college and got my CNA while I was in high school. And so when I would go there, I would sometimes show up and there would be this boy that would drive up in this truck, and I remember just being like, and he had a girlfriend, he would like open the door for her and like let her out. And I remember just being like, What a good man, that's a handsome man. Like I was just like, oof, that's a what a man. And so, anyways, long story short, like, what a man. And I was but he like I called him New Market Boy because that's the school that I went to, but in my brain, New Market Boy like had this place in my brain, and so, anyways, when I was in that relationship with that not great guy after high school, and that was the first and only relationship I'd ever been in, his roommate turned out to be New Market Boy Boy, okay? And I remember the first time I New Market Boy, and I was just like, I was just like, whoa. And so me and him got to kind of know each other, and he was just so kind and and just like I'm talking like someone that didn't know the Lord but had the fruits of the spirit, and I was just like, dude, like this guy is amazing. And you know, I'd been with all of these, like, I'd been in school and missionary training college and like all these things with all these people, and like all the guys that I was in school with, dude, like they were just like they were Pharisees themselves, basically, and like like just double-minded and just like repulsive to me in like every way, and I was just like, ugh. And so I thought I was gonna be single forever. Like I did. I was like, Lord, when I said Adventist nun, like I meant it. Like I had a person make me a shirt that said Adventist Nun Club. Like I was like, I was I was gonna be just staring to the Lord. I don't know. I need to find it. I need to live. It was black and in red letters, it said Adventist Nun Club. Um, and so I was like, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be single forever, Lord. Like, I just want to serve you, whatever. And so, anyways, I get home from mission college and I'm driving to work one day because I was working as a nanny, and I see Tori is his name. So Tori was New Market Boy, and he rides his bike in front of me, and I'm like, I know him. And so we start talking on Facebook and we start hanging out, and it was just this like beautiful, like, I was like, dude, this this guy is so stinking pure and like beautiful in his soul. And I was just like, but God, like he like he's not, he's not Adventist, like I can't, I can't do anything, like I can't do this. And so long story short, I ended up just giving it to God, like giving it to God, giving it to God. And he led me to this verse, and it was the grass withers and the flower fades, but the word of the Lord endures forever. And I was like, you know, because I had already been burned in this other relationship, and I was like, I ain't ever doing this missionary dating thing again. Like, whoever my spouse is, I had been writing letters to this man since I was 16 years old. You know, if he is out there, he is going to be set apart by the Lord for me. And and so I was like, okay, God, like, but if you're leading me into this, like I was scared, I was scared beyond scared, and constantly talking to my parents and mentors and stuff about it. Like it wasn't something I was going into blindly, but because of his goodness and pureness of heart. Anyways, long story short, we and he starts going to church with me and wanting to learn. And this is where I started to see that the belief systems that I was living in were essentially what I was finding were coming up pretty bankrupt of actual love and relationship. Like I'm handing him, you know, these evangelistic series by like Mark Finley and things like this for him to like watch. And then I'm realizing that that first love, that that love that I would sit on my bed and weep as a young girl, like that love, that presence, I didn't know how to show him that. I didn't know how to lead him into that, or or what I was trying to give him was the framework of something that was no longer working in my life. And and so I start to kind of this is like kind of like a slow undoing begin to happen. And as I'm realizing, as I'm trying to show somebody who God is, I'm realizing how much I don't actually know who God is. I'm realizing how much I can quote scripture and voice of prophecy and all these things, but I can't actually tell you who God is other than someone who saves sinners and who we need to be for him. And and so kind of fast forward, me and my husband end up getting married, and we have New Market Boy was your husband? Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. So New Market Boy was my husband. Um, glory to God. And it was still very confusing to me because it was nothing that I'd ever thought that it was going to be. I I I never it was it was nothing that I ever envisioned for me because what I envisioned in my life was still that 16-year-old zealous girl who thought she knew exactly what it was that God wanted her to do. And I was living on Jessica plans and not God plans, and I was starting to see that God's plans were so much different than mine, and the thing that God was after was my heart. And he was in such a huge way using New Market Boy to show me that, and so we ended up having our first son in um June of 2016, and it was at that time I was like, I can't, I can't raise my kid in the same thing that I was raised in because it built a house with my foundation was God, but it built a house that the framework was religion, and I couldn't do that to my kid because I didn't want him to carry the same burdens that I had because all through this I struggled terribly mentally, like my mental health was shockingly bad at a lot of times in my life, um still battling with um suicidal things, still battling with with like multiple like mild attempts, things like that, like that counseling couldn't touch, these things couldn't touch, and no matter how many times I came to God with it, I wasn't healed of it, and I was that was frustrating, you know? And I'm talking like anointed, like all these things, and I'm and so, anyways, we stepped away and we started doing home church with my family because at this point, like I my dad was head elder of our church, my mom was

Motherhood Forces A Faith Rebuild

SPEAKER_02 38:32

an elder, my mom was women's ministry coordinator, children's choice coordinator, I was young adults, um, worship team, like we were we were like heavy in, like we were Pathfinders, uh all the like you know, we were at church four to five nights a week, you know, like we were heavy, heavy in it. And every weekend was hosting people at our house, and it was it was it was all the time, which was beautiful, but the we just all we all collectively felt this call to and one of the things that the Lord started to really put on my heart was to so we stepped out of church, which in and of itself was huge and scary, and because I was losing my identity, my family system that I had grown up with within the church, like our social standing, you know, like all of that stuff. You kind of have I don't know if I personally don't know. I think I've blocked a lot of that season out. I don't know if I necessarily because I remember there was a point that that my pastor had met with me, and at this point, like I mentally, mentally was not doing well. And I know it's I was shackled, dude. Like I was living under chains and yokes and all of these things that they were killing me. Like not just like not just like metaphorically, like I was a burdened, oh dude, like it was killing me. And I remember having a meeting with my pastor because I was telling him, like, dude, I gotta step down, like I have to step down. And I was like, I can't do this right now, like I can't be leading other youth and young adults and people like that. Like, I'm I'm and I remember trying to kind of like tell him what I was kind of struggling with, like belief-wise and stuff like that. And what I was met with was, we have nobody else, so you have to keep doing this. And I was just like, I'm out, like I'm done. And so I I think my parents probably dealt with the the majority of talking to the church. I was just kind of like, I just kind of like faded off into the background. But we started doing home church, which was absolutely incredible. So we would get together on Sabbath mornings and we would make this huge breakfast, and we would all just get into the living room and we would start studying. And one of the things that the Lord really started leading, sorry, leading us to, especially my heart, was to study what the way that the disciples lived after Jesus rose again and went to heaven. And like, what was it that the disciples were believing? First of all, what had they been told? What were they believing, and how were they living? And it when I started to really look at the life of the disciples, like in particular, like Peter and Paul, and start learning like, like, what was this transformation that happened in these men? What was what was the gospel that they were actually preaching? What was this joy that they had? Like, what was this? And so we started just basically around this time, and I've talked to you about this before, like, God started putting this phrase through my head, like to unchurch myself. And I wanted to know him. I didn't want to know what I had been taught. I didn't want to know all these things because as human beings, we do a really good job of like if we think we know something, we hand it to somebody as like fact, you know? And like it's just like human tendency. And I was like, God, I've been handed so much by men, I've been handed so much by humans and religion. Like, I want to set that aside, not saying that I'm like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, not saying that I like am resentful, not saying any of these things. Like that was that time. I did my best, people did their best, but Lord, like I'm seeking after you. And it was incredible during that time of you know, like seeing our walls kind of fall down and seeing what felt like like scales. Like, that's why I relate so much to the Saul to Paul, you know, transformation was it really did feel like I started to feel these scales fall out of my eyes. That I was just like, Jesus, like I'm I'm seeing you, like I'm starting to see you, and it's so different than the version of you that that I thought, you know? And and you know, I'd like to say that it was like all smooth sailing from there, but like I still was really struggling. I think because I had such a I had such a I had spent so much time meticulously constructing the foundation of the life that I was living. There were screws and nails, and I made sure things were secure in this brain of mine, you know. Like I I had so much that I had, you know, like when we talk about neuropathways and like trains of thought, like mine were not just like neuropathway, like they were like not just trenches, but like ravines of repeated thought, you know. And so to try to start to challenge some of those ways of thinking was honestly really hard. And and so I remember I'd gotten to this point. At this point, I'm working, I'm a I had gotten my cosmetology license. I was sorry. Uh I'd gotten my cosmetology license and I was working, I had a lash studio where I did lashes. Um and like we had our little hobby farm and I had like baby cows, and it was just this like beautiful time in my life, but I was like still so mentally plagued that I it was like it was like full-time oppression, it almost felt like I felt like I was trying to just keeping you captive.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

What was the main thought you would you say that was keeping you captive?

SPEAKER_02 44:33

I would say every single thought. Sorry. Shush um every thought system that I had previously felt like they were all screaming at me at once, but at volume 10 in my brain. And I didn't know how to make them be more quiet. I didn't know how to quiet them, even with begging God, like, like God help me, like help my mind. And I remember like it was it was honestly like it felt torturous. Like I felt like there was a spiritual battle going on in my mind um to the world. I seemed fine, you know, because I I kept it all very under wraps, but I was living a mask, a facade of being okay when there was like a full-fledged war going on um in my soul, and I could feel it. And I didn't have I didn't have the tools nor the weapons to know how to fight it.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

And I remember I was like reaching this point. It was around when my son was about a little after a year old. He was like 14 months old. And I remember I was laying on my bed on my back and he was sleeping on top of me, and like any mom can relate, like when you're like nap-trapped, you know, like I was we contact slept, like so. I was like, I was like nap-trapped, and I was laying on my bed and I was like sobbing because I have been just been crying out to God, like, help me, like, help me if you're so good, like if you're so whatever, like help me. Like, I don't know what to do. Like, I I'm so lost and confused because at this point, like the thought of being a missionary, being anything like that, I had like I felt my like my entire identity had been ripped away from me because I didn't know what to do. Because now here I am. I'm confused about what truth I even tell people. I'm confused about I'm learning, you know, like who God really is. Is like I just felt so confused because I went from somebody that had so much certainty to now somebody who was literally felt like I was drowning in uncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

And I prayed this prayer on my bed, and I said, Lord, I want you to wreck me, is what I told him. I want you to wreck me. Like take me to ground absolute zero. Wreck my life in every way that you need to wreck it and rebuild me. Like that's that was my prayer to him. And I meant it, and I was bawling. And and this is where like some people are like, oh, God would never wreck you. Like God would never like do those things to you. Like, God's not like that. And I'm like, I beg to differ because if the Lord disciplines those he loves, and some of us need to be wrecked. And like you look at Jonah, like getting swallowed by a whale, that ain't no little thing. You look at like Saul, the dude was blinded and had to be walked like a child. Like, you know what I mean? Like sometimes we have to be wrecked. And so what happens next is a little bit wow. This is not everybody's story, and the goodness of God shines through this. Okay. So I want people listening to this to realize. I start having just physical ailments, okay? It starts out with rashes. And mind you, at this point, because now knowing everything that you know we've learned, I glory to God. I am so stinking grateful for how much we now know about the nervous system, about the mind, about all of these things. Like I'm serious, like glory to God. Because at this point, looking back, what I know was I was at an absolute nervous system breakdown. Like that's what I because I was carrying not only the weight of the world, because still all the while I still thought and believed and carried that weight that every day that we're here, every day that we're not preaching, every day that we're not turning hearts to God, the suffering of the world

The Prayer To Be Wrecked

SPEAKER_02 48:36

continues. And like I'm the type of person that like most of my life, like I cried myself to sleep more nights than I can even count over thinking about the pain in the world, like starving children, like hurting people, just like all these things. Like, I cannot stand suffering. And like I feel it in my body. Like, I'm not like somebody that can like look at somebody and be like, eh, that sucks. Like that does not exist in me. And so at this point, like I'm still feeling all of that. I feel the weight of the world. I feel like every person that died, like, and this was my belief system at that time that every person that dies that didn't hear about Jesus, like I felt that on my shoulders. Like I felt I was carrying actual life and death on my shoulders. It's like if you so a house was burning and you weren't able to get somebody out, like that weight that you would carry, I was carrying that type of weight for people I didn't even know. Like I was like in that on top of like confusion, on top of, you know, I was running my own business, doing the farm, had a baby, like my husband was running his own, like we were living at absolute full capacity. Like me and my husband worked opposite schedules. I went to work at night, he did days, like we never like it was like I was I was breaking, I was cracking under a system that wasn't working. And so I start like breaking out in these like crazy rashes, like my ears, my face would swell up, like they would like weep. And this started this like journey into like, dude, I just started to deteriorate physically. It went from that to like I was in allergist office, like we couldn't figure anything out. Um, it went from that to like my heart then started basically like giving out, and I had no consistent heart rhythm. I was going through like uh uh like atrial fibrilland type things, like I was wearing heart monitors and couldn't breathe and was in and out of hospitals, and then it went from that to like neurological things, like half my body stopped like working to it's just like it was like one thing after another. And I like the fear that I felt during this time and and the confusion, but all the while in the back of my mind, I had kind of known that I had prayed that prayer on my bed. And and so I just kept thinking like this will end soon, like this will end soon. Praying for healing, anyways, it progresses, like it gets so incredibly bad, like my digestive system like started basically like shutting down, like I couldn't like digest food, um, I couldn't sleep. If I laid down, my heart would stop. Like I like just this crazy, crazy stuff. And then I ended up getting pregnant with my second son in the midst of this, and they told me to um abort or I was gonna die. And I remember being like have like I remember looking at my husband and my first son and being like, How do I, how do I say like I'm choosing this baby's life over you guys potentially having a mom or a wife? You know, like when people like when you're put in that type of situation, it was just terrible. But that's when me and my husband were like, we're like, we're just gonna trust God. And I was so sick. Like I was so sick during this pregnancy, during everything that I like I can still feel it in my body when I talk about it. Like I would go four or five days without sleeping because I was panic attacks on loops, like my body was breaking down, I couldn't eat, I couldn't, I couldn't uh I had no strength left all the while. Like I still had my business, I still had a baby, I still had all the stuff that I was just having to continue to push towards. And what I was realizing was like I was, I was I'll I'll get to that later, but I ended up having my second son and like I like basically lost like my ability to walk. Like my my pelvis had completely separated, like my L1 through my L5 and my back, my lower back was all blown out. My tailbone was like completely like to the side, like I couldn't walk for months. I had to crawl on the floor with like a newborn baby, still unable to eat. Like I I couldn't lay down. I wasn't able to lay down for like almost three years. Like I had to I had to sit, if I was able to sleep, like I had to sleep like sitting up, like propped up with pillows, because if I laid back, my heart would stop. Like it was like all this crazy, like literally every single thing that a human

Seven Years Of Collapse And Fear

SPEAKER_02 53:23

being can hold precious from our ability to walk to my ability to eat, my ability to take care of my children, everything that that a typical human being would feel strength with, I had it basically taken away.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

And uh around this time I was so sick, and this was the beginning of like COVID, that I actually just had to shut my business down because I lost that too. And I was just like, I was stuck in my house with a baby and a toddler, unable to walk, unable to really eat, unable, like in so much p physical pain. Like there was there was physical pain through my body so badly that I would my teeth would chatter and I would vomit. And like, because of everything going on in like my digestive tract, like my stomach would come up into my chest cavity, and uh because anyways, there's just so much stuff, and like blood would come out of my nose and my mouth, and like I was still having these rash like I'm not even kidding you when I like there was not a part of my body that was not plagued with something, like I was broken. But this is the result of what happens to a body when it lives under bondage and yoke and lies. This is what happens. Like I was living the natural consequences of a body that had lived in such bad nervous system dysregulation formed by bad religious construction of my thought patterns. Like my thought patterns, the the way that my brain worked and the way that my because everything okay, so I'll I'll get to that later. But like, anyways, this went on for seven years.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Seven years. I basically lost almost all of my friendships. I cause I just had to I lived like I was just this broken person that I couldn't, I couldn't even a lot of the time, like I wouldn't even have the strength to like get up and like go to the store or go to like I was when I say broken, I mean like broken. And my husband, this whole time, this man, never once did he make me feel bad. Never once did he cared for me so selflessly, and it was so much love and compassion. Like, and I remember there was so many times I would hold his hand and be like, I'm gonna die. Like, I'm gonna die, like please take care of the boys, like all this stuff, and he'd be like, You're not, you're not gonna die. Like, like, and you know, this man who has this, he's so new to his faith, but it was so much stronger than mine so many times. I remember that like there was times, especially towards the end, I'd say like year six, was when I was like, I was so mad at God. Like, I was so mad at God. I was like, you've blessed me with this beautiful life, these two beautiful children. Like, I gave you everything, like I gave you my entire life, and this is like how I'm living. Like, what the heck, dude? Like, I was like, if you could have like leaned down, I probably would have took a swung at him. Like, I was I was freaking mad. And especially because like I had cried out so long for healing for all of these things, I had so many people praying for me, and it like it wasn't making a difference. And and I remember there was one point that I was standing at my kitchen sink and I was doing dishes, and at this point, like I had regained my ability through like physical therapy and all this stuff, like I was finally walking okay. I was like, I was able to like eat okay, but I was still really, really sick. And I was standing at my kitchen sink and I was looking out the back window and I was doing dishes, and my mind was just like like screaming, like it, like I said, it was like a war in my head at all times, and like volume 10, and I'm like sitting there and I'm yelling at God in my head, and I'm like, you have healed lepers, you have brought people from the dead, like, why won't you heal me? Like, I'm yelling at him in my head, doing dishes, you know, like just in my head, and uh and I'm just angry. And here's the thing in the back of my mind, I hear this, like literally, it sounded like from the back of my brain, I hear this master it, and then loudly I hear tame it. And I remember just I slammed the dishes down and I did. I just dropped like a solid F-bomb right there because I knew, I knew that he was trying to tell me that he wasn't gonna just take this from me. That what I had allowed was in my mind, I had allowed this thing up here to be untamed and unbridled. And and that because we are told to guard our hearts because out of it is the wellspring of life. And when you look at that word of heart, I think it's like yev or something in the original Greek or Hebrew, and it's actually like your inner belief center. And and what God was beginning to teach me there was he wasn't gonna heal me from something, and this is mind you, again, to anybody listening, this is not everybody's story. This is how he personally had to, I am his child, and he knew what type of discipline method would work first best for me. He knew what way to shepherd me, and and he wasn't just gonna heal me in a blink of an eye, which I know that he can do for many people. You know, there are many people that receive instantaneous healings, and I believe in those. But with me, he was like, girlfriend, I have things to teach you. And so that began my hymn so kindly and so gently when it says that uh what's the verse that uh he is our God that holds us by our right hand and helps us like step by step. This God, our God, you guys,

Master It Then Tame It

SPEAKER_02 59:38

begin to walk me through that what we believe about him trickles down into every single thing about our life. And and I begin to study the brain, I begin to study um uh like attachment theory, I begin to study uh the subconscious mind, I begin to study so many of these things, and as I begin to study, I begin to see that the things even I was living under bondage of beliefs that were not from him, and and as I begin to start to allow him to speak truth over my life, as I begin to allow him to teach me his real character, no joke, the healing like physically manifested in my life. Like and and I was still just learning so much, you know, and then that's around the time before this was when uh I did come in contact with uh finally with love reality, which was like How did that happen? So I was actually living in Salt Lake City at the time, and uh I was just on Instagram and I ended up seeing a post from Justin. And at that point, I had no idea that he even had Adventist background, anything like that, but what he was talking about, about freedom and about truth and about all these things, I remember just being like, dude, this is what God is teaching me, like this is what I'm seeing, and I wasn't finding it in other places, you know what I mean? Like I wasn't finding it in anyways, and so I just kind of started watching more of his stuff, and then that's when I came across like Love Reality Group. And then when to say, when I found out that there was like Adventist background, I was like, Lord, you like the way that he has loved me through all of this was just so incredible because I was like, God, you are so good, because even when I couldn't see you through all this stuff, like like you, he just I don't know, he just continued to amaze me and like that. Oh yeah, 100% because you know, like yeah, because at this point, like this was probably four or five years ago, I was still scared. Okay, this is gonna, I was still technically scared to like listen to anything that wasn't Adventist because I, you know, I didn't I didn't want to be led astray by anything because even though I had stepped away from what I knew wasn't right for me, I didn't, like I said, I didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like I I believed that there was a lot of truth there. I just, anyways, and

Renewing The Mind Brings Healing

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

so it did. Like I think that that was like the point that I was like, okay, I'm actually gonna listen to this. Like it like gave me permission almost to like listen to it. And and so then we moved back to Washington, and then that's when I think it was like two years ago was when I joined the Worthy of Everything Bible study. And at this point, I'm still pretty like I'm still trying to learn on my own, and I'm still like very much trying to be transformed by the renewing of my mind because, like I said, it there was a lot that a lot of brain construction that that had to come down in my mind and be rebuilt. And you know, I was coming off of this season of being taken to ground zero, like I absolutely obliterated in the best way. And I thank God to this day. I know because of how stinking stubborn, I know because of how stinking driven, and I know because of how stinking zealous that I was that in so many ways I would not be I would not have been able to hear the truth or know what I know now without the things happening to me that they did. And like I I am so incredibly grateful for every single hard day. I am so incredibly grateful for that entire season because it truly like when it the the timing of it Richard was so crazy because when I finally understood the gospel, and it was because of what Jonathan was talking about, like when I finally understood that like I really was free from sin, that I was, and like this was where Jadra, dude, Jadra is just I think you love her so much. When she would call, she would start almost every Bible study, like saying, like, like good morning, saints, like when I started to make that distinction that I was no longer a sinner in the eyes of God. And when I started to realize that I truly was taken from death, and trust me when I say I felt death, like there was a period where like it not only would we just within the religious constructs that it existed in my mind, like how shackled I was, how burdened I was, how yoked I was, how all of those things, like I remember, and then to have all the physical stuff on top of that. Like, I remember there was a point that I was reading in my Bible, and I think it's in Psalms where he talks about like uh uh when we go to the pits of Sheol, he will be there. I think it's in and I remember just being like, I'm in the pits, like right now, because I remember there was a there was a hot minute where I remember I was laying in bed and I looked at my husband, I was bawling, and I was like, I don't know if I believe in God anymore. And this was like in the midst of my stuff. And because I was so mad and I couldn't feel him or hear him, and I remember my husband looks at me and he goes, No, you do believe in God, you're just going through a hard time. And I remember those words were just like so saving to me because as human beings, sometimes when we're going through a rough time, our our first reaction is to is to be mad at God, which I've experienced firsthand, but oh man, he's so good. So, anyways, and so when I started to learn that that I had gone from death to life, that that when he says that my yoke is easy and my burden is light, and that when he says

Freedom Through Identity As Saint

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

that for the sun for whom the sun sets free, they are free indeed. When I started to actually be able to understand these things, because it was a s it was a slow burn at first, because I remember there was a few times I'd sit at internet church and I'd be like, okay, I want to understand this. But like you guys would be like talking, and I'd be like, my brain would be like, like, you know, just all the old construction that was in here was just like, that's like that, how can that be? Like, how can that be?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:17

And give me the example of one of the things that's like, how could that be?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

I think just because there's a difference between logically knowing something and then actually believing something. And so, like, when when you guys would be talking about uh like when Jonathan, okay, so like when Jonathan was teaching, and uh, this wasn't during internet church, but like this was like one of the concepts, was like when he was talking about the always son, like with the prodigal son, how he had always been son. And uh I remember being like, I can logically understand that, but like I couldn't feel it for myself yet. I couldn't feel that I had always been daughter, I couldn't, I couldn't embody that belief yet because it was still so blocked by I'm a sinner, I'm filthy rags, like my righteousness is filthy rags. And then when I started to believe, like when he talked about like the Adam One and Adam Two, and and when he started talking about like the sanctified, like when you went moved from unrighteousness to righteousness, like all these things, and this was like a this was over a course of like, okay, so uh last year, so the Lord usually gives me like a word for the year. Okay. And last year, the word that he gave me in January was integrate. And the thing that I kept hearing was like, I wanted this new gospel that I was hearing. I want because I did. Like once once I heard this stuff, I was like, this is it. Like, this is what this, because remember how I told you I had this fascination, this pull, this draw to what was it that that Peter, what was it that Paul, what was it that these guys, after they had been with Jesus and they watched him go back up into heaven, like what was it, like Peter, but not anyways, and like what was it that Paul, who had been Saul, because I had so much similarity to that, what was it that he was preaching? What gospel was it? What truth was it? What joy was it that he had? And when I started to understand this stuff, I was like, this is it! Like I was like, this is what like I was so I was like, this is the truth, this is the truth, like this is this is what this is what they were willing to sacrifice everything for. This is the joy, this was the reason that Stephen could be stoned to death because with a smile on his face, because he was so in tune with the love of God. And like the verse um in Ephesians, uh, Ephesians chapter three, when it talks about um, I think it starts in 17. It says, Then Christ will live in you through faith. I pray also that love may be the ground into which you sink your roots and on which you have your foundation. This way, with all of God's people, you will be able to understand how wide, long, high, and deep his love is. You will know Christ loves be go which goes beyond under understanding or knowledge. I'm praying this so that you may be completely filled with God. And what I realized was that he was making his love. I had never been able to understand his love. I had understood duty, I had understand, understood servant, I had understood um like soldier, I had understood so many of those things, but like I said, I had lost my first love. It had been drowned out by the weeds of I I picture like you know that parable where they where it talks about he sows the seeds and like like there was so many weeds that had come and tried to choke out the truth that that sweet little girl praising Jesus on her bed had encountered. You know what I mean? And and when he brought me back to my first love with him, when I started to see that his love was what every single thing was built on. And then I went through a training program about the about the mind, and it talked about how it's B-T-E-A, how the brain works. And this was just from that training. Like I know there's so many people think different things, but like like your beliefs impact your thoughts, and then your thoughts impact your emotions, and then your emotions impact your actions. And what I realized was most of my mind, most of my life, I was living tormented here because I didn't have that that when it says I pray that the love may be the ground into which you sink your roots. I realized that like my belief system wasn't built on love and that I actually didn't understand love nor the love of God, because God is love. And if we're having a hard time understanding God, it's because we're having a hard time understanding love. And it's like when I look out in the world now and I see people who are having a hard time understanding God or a hard time understanding or grasping anything like that. I see now, but it's because they don't know love. Like, and and you know, life has made that so hard for so many of us, anyways. And so it's like what we get to do now is like like that girl that wanted to like proclaim Jesus to the world. Like I used to think that I needed to just, you know, like tell people about the truths of how they needed to live, how they needed to be obedient to certain laws, and then to be baptized, and then ching, like move on to the next one. And it's like, no, like what we get to do now is explain that there is a God who wanted you and chose you before the foundations of the earth. Like there is a God who literally formed you in your mother's womb, who knows every hair on your head, who catches your tears in a bottle, who knows every thought that goes through your mind and still thinks more good thoughts about you than there is sand in the sea. You know what I mean? Like when you start to understand the love of God, like, and it's true, like even in this verse when it says, like, you will know Christ's love, which goes far beyond any knowledge. Like there is something otherworldly about this love that we like I my brain can't even I will spend eternity trying to wrap my mind around the love, the pureness, the goodness of God, that he smiles on us. Like, are you kidding me? Like, he smiles at me, like he loves me, like like when I started to view him as a father, and just because like I know the love that I have for my kids, and it's like to know that I was made in his image and that the love that I have for my kids is a reflection of the love that he has for me, like dude, like like this is what we get to go out into the world and share, like like and freedom in like knowing that that what he did on the cross what he did on the cross moved me from death to life, and there is nothing that I can do to take that love away, that I am no longer a sinner, I am no longer a sinner, that in his eyes I am a saint. And like that that I am not filthy rags, and that when I wake up in the morning, because you know one of the biggest transformations that that I have in my life is like I used to be the girl that would wake up every morning being like, God forgive me, God, I'm sorry, like Lord forgive me, help me, help me today to be able to honor you, to follow you, to like like just this place of like begging God for his love, for his forgiveness. And when I was able to see, I got forgiven. I am forgiven. And when I wake up in the morning now, I say, God, thank you for the love that I live in. Thank you that I have the mind of Christ living inside of me. Thank you that in your eyes I am a saint. Thank you that I can walk in righteousness. Thank you, thank you, just thank you. Like what a and then, like now, now if someone were to ask me what like full circle, Jessica, what's the first thing you would do if you saw Jesus? You know what I would do? I would run up to him and give him a big bear hug and literally like snuggle into him and just like want to just smooch his face all over. Like, like the transformation that happens when you encounter the true love and character of God is there is nothing in this world like it. Like nothing, you know, nothing. And like what's really cool is like, so this year, uh at the beginning of the year, uh, I asked God for a word. Okay, because last year, I don't know if I finished that thought. Last year, he gave me the word integrate. And it's because I wanted to integrate everything that I was learning, like literally into my bone marrow. Like I wanted to into I wanted it to be integrated into, and I did. I spent last year just allowing him to teach me because one of the beautiful things that he's been really teaching me is how much it's okay that I'm learning. You know, like he never looks at me and is like frustrated that I don't know something or whatever. Like he is such a gentle father that's like, you know, how like he would hold a baby's hand to like teach it to walk. Like he is so excited as I'm learning about him and learning about these things. And and so last year I spent the year like, you know, diving in and really like trying to integrate and learn what this gospel was. And this year, the word that he gave me was walk. And one of the one of the things that he told me in the beginning of this was he led me to the story of when Jesus healed the paralytic. And when Jesus says your sins are forgiven, you know, get up and walk. And he gave me this imagery of like when we realize that we've gone from death to life, sometimes like it'd be like if that paralytic woke up the next day forgetting that he had been healed, you know, like he was told to get up and walk, like walk out this healing, walk out your new life, like walk out, like you're a new create, like you walk it out now. And and and that, you know, if that paralytic fell down, he wouldn't be like, oh, I'm paralyzed again. He would be like, Oh, I just fell down, like get up and walk, get up and walk. And like the thing that God was teaching me was like, I get to walk now as a new creation. I have been made new and I get to walk. Like, even if there's times where like I and I've been freed. I've been freed. There are no shit no shackles on me. Like there's the uh the KB rap song called No Chains, if you haven't listened to it, dude. One of the best worship songs, like scream no chains to the top of the to the top of the world. Um, but I'm not chained any longer to sin. Like I don't have chains that that chain me to sin. And it would be like, it would be like a that paralytic being like uh like forgetting that he's been been healed and like thinking that he's paralyzed again. It's like, no, bro, get up and walk, like you're healed. And it's like the same thing, like if I start to feel like, oh, like I'm so unrighteous, whatever. Like I feel like it's like it's like if like there was somebody sitting and they had like all these shackles on their legs and somebody came over and like you know undid them all and they're free to get up. And it's like it's like my hands want to sometimes like try to take the shackles and like put them back around my ankle, like, oh, you like you know,

Learning To Walk Out New Life

SPEAKER_02 1:18:42

and I'm like, no, like that's just gonna fall off. It's not attached to you anymore. Like you're not, you're not shackled under that anymore. Like you're not you're not burdened by that anymore. Like get up and walk. And it's like learning to walk out this freedom and learning to walk it out in a way of like like Jesus has been telling me so many things, like like to just put out into the world like seeds and invitations, dude, and like taste and see that the Lord is good. Like I have tasted like my life. I stand on a witness, I stand like in like a courtroom on like a witness stand, and I am telling you what I have experienced in my life as a witness firsthand to the love of God that it transforms everything, like everything about your life, it will transform your mind. It'll you'll literally be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Like you will literally like believe new things, and it's like I don't know, anyways. I've just been talking to Mile a minute. Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

So this year, like just things were starting to click in, like to last year and this year, things have just clicked in more and more, and you're seeing this love. And I've seen I think before I'd see you on internet church, and you did you never said anything, I'm like, oh, who is this person? And then you started saying things, and you've been so encouraging. Um because obviously you know what's kind of gone on with love reality in the background and all that stuff. Let me ask you this. Now that you know all of this, and you look back at the sincere girl, like, zeal doesn't change. The thing about, and I've said this a million times, Paul's zeal never left him. Like, Paul was the zealous kind of guy that if you were driving your car through his neighborhood on the Sabbath, he'd probably try to throw a ch a rock to stop your car. Like, that's how zealous he is. And now he is zealous for one thing and one only Christ and him crucified. Like, his zeal that didn't change. And I don't think your zeal has left you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

I don't think you were I'm like shaking with excitement right now, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:45

And so, what would you tell this girl who is so zealous? Let's say you get transported back to Guam and you could just pull this girl aside, and she's so zealous, and she's sincere, but but she's misguided. How would you disciple her? How would you put your arm around her and try to guide her?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:05

Oh, I would go straight to the love. I would go straight to the love. I would just start like that verse that talks about like what love the Father has lavished on us, I would literally just start drenching her in the knowledge of the love of God. Because it truly is the love of God that that compels us. It truly is the love of God. Like when it says that that Christ will like that Christ will be the ground into which you sink your roots, if love is not the base of every single like if if the love of God, the understanding of it's it's crazy to say the understanding because it's like almost uh

Discipling Her Younger Self With Love

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

uh uncomprehendable the love of God because it's just so beautiful. Yes, like like when when you can sit in the presence of God and like I I am so visual with him because like I do like because another thing was there was years ago, and this was when I was uh had my lash studio. Actually, I'd moved my lash studio into my little shop here that I have that I'm doing this recording in right now. And I remember I was sitting at my desk and I was trying to talk to the Lord and and all these things, and and I had this imagery, like the Lord is so good, He speaks to us so much in our mind and in our like imagination. And I had him tell me, I had my eyes down, and I felt him almost like sitting on the other side of my desk from me, and I I felt him say, like Jessica, look up at me, and I couldn't do it, I couldn't look up and make eye contact with him because of my shame and because of my feelings of unworthiness. And I think that one of the biggest things that he has taught me is he did by slowly teaching me, he reached across that table and grabbed my chin and he taught me how to look up at him and be able to make eye contact with him because my shame no longer exists. My shame was buried with him, my my unrighteousness was buried with him, my feelings of unworthiness were buried with him. Like I stand before Worthy because he is my creator, he is he is my God, he is my everything, you know. Like, like to if I could, and I think that's why like I have such a heart for like I know we're like are we almost out of time? How much time do we have left?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:04

It feels like we're we're wrapping up the story, but if you got more to say, let I mean I want to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

I do, I do, um, because God is so good because and this is what I think that that uh you know we all have areas in our life where God's knit us together for specific purposes, you know, like he tells us like each one of us has a specific purpose in, and um I've always just like intimacy with God, that like like feel his breath kind of closeness, that intimacy that that like all encompassing kind of love has always been where I've like lived with him in the secret place when I was healthy, when I was in a healthy spiritual space. Um, and when uh just testimony of how good and real God is. So I was reading uh Jamie Winship's book, Living Fearless. Have you read that yet? I have okay, and you know, like, oh you haven't?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:07

I have not.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:09

Oh, you gotta do it. Don't spoil it for me. No, spoil it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:12

You gotta do it. Um, there's this part, and like I was hesitant about this at first, but there's this part in it where you get with God and you ask God what he calls you. And and for me, like I'd never allowed myself to have such an intimate, like during my super, I call it like my Pharisee time. I cause I did. I felt like I felt like I had such a Pharisee mindset, but like like now in my in my Paul, in my Paul era transformation time, uh, and yeah, my Paul era. Um okay, so anyways, in this in this time, you're to ask God like what he calls you. And before I could never quite, I always bypassed myself. Like the world was always more important. People teach teaching people about God was always more important. Like I didn't feel worthy of actually having his love poured into me directly. Like I always just felt like, and I was very much taught like you're just a conduit, you are just a mouthpiece, you are just like, it's like it's supposed to just like flow right through you. Like the world is always so much more important. And I started having God teach me and whisper to me, like, Jessica, you are important to me. Like, Jessica, you matter to me. Like Jessica, I'm pursuing your heart as much as I'm pursuing every single other person here. Like they are not more important than you are. That whole like esteem others better than yourself. Like, like I said, when I was told something, I would do it obediently. And like I didn't realize how many scriptures and how many belief, belief like little

God Names Her Lily

SPEAKER_02 1:26:50

nuggets that were taken so out of context that my obedient brain just took as like fact. Like, so when it was like esteem others better than yourself, I was like, All right, well, I don't matter at all, you know, like I'm just gonna, everybody else matters more than me, and like even spiritually. And so when God started, there's that verse in Hosea where it talks about like he he led her into the desert and he wooed her, or he like pursued her. And I've I have felt God such a good God, such like as as as his church, as his bride, I can feel his pursuit of his love. Like, goodness gracious, okay. And so when I was reading this this book, Living Fearless by Jamie Winship, um, there's the part where he asked, God, what do you call me? And I was hoping for something like I did, I had these like hopes of something like really like like uh I don't know, like strong or something because I'd gone through this season of being sick for so long that I felt so weak and so like I was just so like just whatever. And so I'm listening to him and I hear I call you my lily. And I was like, huh. Okay, and I like took it and I was like, okay, God, like you called me a lily, but like no real, like I wasn't like, oh yes, like I'm so happy you call me your lily. Like I was just like, great, like a weak little flower, like perfect, okay. Like I I did. I was a little bit like uh uh I don't know. It wasn't that I was like ungrateful for the name, but I was like it wasn't indifferent. I was just I was a little disappointed. And so I'm like, okay, and so like I sit on that for weeks and I'm like, okay, like God, you call me your lily, like that okay. So I start like like when I'm in prayer with him, when I'm these things, I'm like, okay, God, like I'm your Lily. And like what was really crazy was like when I was uh I worked at like Adventist Summer Camp for many years, or like was involved, and there was one of the weeks that I was always and like when I would do like youth rallies or when I would preach or talk to people, I can always talk extreme worth into other people. I can I could always encourage other people in how God views them and all of these things, but again, that's because I would bypass myself. And there was one of the weeks that I was working as uh I worked at the horse camp most of the time. Uh, but there was one week I subbed and I was a in the girls' cabin and I went and bought each of them lilies. And at the end of the week, like I told them, like, you are a lily among thorns in the eyes of your creator. Like I was just like, I wanted them to know so deeply their worth to God and and who they were, but I didn't believe that for myself. And so, but I, you know, I wasn't really aware of that at the time. And so when God told me, like, I call you my lily, I remember telling my husband, like, that's weird, you know, because like I've always talked to other women about their worth to God and them being so precious to him and like a lily among thorns and stuff, but I could never see that for myself. And so, like weeks go by and I'm like sitting on my couch again. No, I'm sitting in my bed again, and I'm like, God, like, like, and I did. I was like, I position I petitioned him again. I felt like Gideon, you know, when Gideon put out the fleece to God the first time, and then he's like, he's like, Oh, that wasn't good enough. Let me do this again. And so I sat with God again and I'm like, okay, God, like, what do you call me? And I hear, I hear Shashanah. And I've never heard this word before in my life, okay? And so I'm like, okay, and then my logical brain immediately goes to, I think I've seen that in like my my like calendar. I'm like, oh, Rosh Hashanah, it's a it's a it's a um holiday, and so I look. That up and I'm like, okay. And it was like almost that time. So it's like means like new beginnings or whatever. And I'm like, cool, like God's telling me it's a new beginning, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, anyways, weeks pass again. And this time I'm sitting on my couch, and my husband and my boys are outside, which, if you know, if you're a mom or a parent to young kids, like your time by yourself is like pretty limited. And I'm sitting on my couch, they're outside, and like I'm having this time with God, and I'm just talking to him. And I'm like, okay, God, if you call me your lily, like what does that mean? So I start diving into all the biblical things on a lily. Richard, guess what the Hebrew word for lily is? Shoshana. It's Shoshana. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:18

You had never heard that word before.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:20

I had never in my life heard the word Shoshana in my life, okay? And I start bawling, okay? And I am like, oh my goodness, like my king is after my intimate heart. And I, and you start like looking into like the imagery of like Lily, and like like it starts taking me down these paths of like, it's so tied to like the beauty, the innocence, the pureness of like a bride, and like and how God has been calling me since I was a little girl. Like, like that intimacy with God. Like I had him, I had him tell me it was, it was actually during a time because Jra and Floyd, they knew they called me one, we had this phone call one night that lasted, I don't even know how many hours, because they knew they both said they were like, you are not aware of who you are to God. And and we're gonna, we're basically like they just like they just annihilated me in the best way with the love of God and truth of God. And during that, God really showed me he was like, You are a proclaim, you are a receiver and a proclaimer of my intimate love in this world. You are my lily, you are my Shashanah. And that when Jesus calls us as his people, his bride, that is one of the most intimate places we can be with the Lord. And that when he says he is coming back for a spotless bride, it's because he wants her to believe that she is spotless and that she is worth coming for, and that she is who he says she is. And it's like to have like all of this now, like like this fire's been lit in me that like there we've the devil has done poop on him, but like he has done such a good job of deceiving people that God is not the God of love that he says he is, that he is, you know, he's done so I hate I hate saying good job because it feels like a compliment, but it's just he's he's gonna deceive people and he's a he is the father of stinking lies, dude. And when you live in lies, when you live in that, like when lies rule your mind, when lies taint your view of God, when lies taint your view of yourself, because dude, yeah, like when when we see ourselves as God sees us, and like when we see God as God really is, and like the love, and when we understand love in and of itself and understand that God is love, like like that is what the devil does not want people to realize because that is what breaks shackles and chains off of people, and they are actually able to walk in freedom when they understand not only what happened on the cross, but who they are now and who they get to walk in, that they are no longer paralyzed and stuck in fear and shame and sin, that they have the they have been given a new life, and that we can walk out in freedom, holding his right hand because he never leaves us. He's right there, he's smiling over us, like just all this stuff that I'm just like I want the world to know this. Like, so the zeal has not left. Um, I'm just learning how to be able to say it now in a way that, like here's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:31

Why don't we wrap this up like this? If there's someone who has had your experience and maybe they're feeling sick, or maybe they have a low view of themselves, I would like you to encourage them right now. Just to that person who's listening that relates with with your story, but they don't see a way out, how would how would you encourage them?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:54

First of all, I would say that one of the most beautiful things that I learned about the differences between our westernized culture and our eastern co and eastern culture is that here in our western, we get frustrated if we don't have an answer immediately. In the Eastern culture, when somebody would not know something about God, sometimes they would dance and celebrate because they knew that something that God was about to show them something magical and powerful. And so if there's something in your life that you're confused about with God, first of all, do not lose hope and do not get frustrated because God hears you and sees you and He wants to reveal things to you, and it will happen in a time and a place where He knows that you are ready. So dance with joy because it is coming. And second of all, I would say be prepared to have your thoughts about yourself challenged. And I think that the one of the hardest things is that you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink. That when you start to learn truths about yourself, that you are worthy in the eyes of God, that you are loved, people can tell you things till they are blue in the face. You actually have to make the choice to allow your mind to start believing it. And and to allow God to teach you how to let that resistance go so that you can start viewing yourself as he sees you, which is a loved son or daughter, which is a a person who has been moved from death to life, who

Hope For The Trapped Listener

SPEAKER_02 1:36:24

is a person who has every spiritual blessing that you are you are seated with him in heavenly places, like you are considered a saint, not a sinner, you know. Like, like have hope and have patience because if it's not over yet, God is not done. You know, if it's not good yet, God's not done. There's that song, if it's not good yet, God's not done. Um and just know if you can do one thing, lift your eyes, close your eyes, and lift your face and your eyes to the heavens. And I want you to imagine God smiling over you. Because I think every single thing that we need to believe starts there. That we have a God who smiles on us, we have a God who sings over us, we have a God who wanted us and chose us before he even formed this world, that that what happened in the fall was not a surprise to him, that what happens with your sin is not a surprise to him. He already accounted for it, he already planned for it, he already took care of it, and you are his, and the whole entire point of this entire world, the whole entire point of your entire life is because he wants to be with you, is because he wants to love you, and is because you were made to be loved by him. So that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:42

Jessica, you are a testimony to us. I love your zeal for God, your energy for God. I see your good works. I glorify your Father in Heaven. You're yeah, you're just an encouragement. And so I'm gonna end this with this prayer. Father in heaven, we just thank you for loving us so deeply and revealing that love to Jessica so that she could change the way she was thinking and accept and believe what you have said, stop believing um her life over your word, but to believe your word over her circumstances so that she could align that truth and walk forward in love. And so we thank you for doing this. We pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:27

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:29

Thanks, Jessica, for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:32

Thank you.