Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#273: Crista Few, Grace That Outlives Grief
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We sit down with Crista Few as she grieves her mom’s death and explains why the resurrection of Jesus gives her peace even when she doesn’t have every answer. We talk through Adventist culture, church politics, and legalism, then come back to the simple center: the gospel is what Jesus has already done to reconcile us to God.
• her mom’s oral cancer, hospice decision, and the “God moments” in the final days
• the difference between beliefs and facts, especially around death and hope
• why “being right” can quietly replace a relationship with Jesus
• identity in Christ as a stabilizer through grief and change
• experiencing church politics for the first time and how it reshapes trust
• baptism vows, fear-based faith, and the pressure to perform
• coffee controversy and how small issues reveal big control patterns
• discovering Death to Life and rethinking what the gospel actually is
• seeing the temple as a picture of Jesus rather than a checklist
• assurance that salvation is secure because Jesus finished the work
• readiness for the Second Coming without panic or superstition
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Stories Of Freedom In Jesus
SPEAKER_00The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can. And that's why we want you to hear these stories: stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life. Yo, welcome to the Death of Life Podcast. My name is Richard Young, and today's guest is Christa Fu. I've known her. I we'll have to get into how long I've known her, but she's been a real blessing to me, her and her family, and her dog Captain. And uh they've been a blessing. You'll be blessed by this story. And so um, yeah, the person you will hear is Krista. Buckle up and strap in. Love y'all and appreciate y'all. Krista, how long have we known each other?
SPEAKER_04Uh, that's a great question. Broken Arrow Ranch summer camp as campers.
SPEAKER_00Oh, what what year did you go to Broken Arrow? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I have to think about it.
SPEAKER_00Uh what year did you graduate high school?
SPEAKER_04Uh I graduated high school in 2005.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I'm a little older than you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and so when we we did go to college together then.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but you were at Midland, right?
SPEAKER_00I was at Midland.
SPEAKER_04So we probably did you ever go to summer camp?
SPEAKER_00I did not.
SPEAKER_04Did you work at Summer Camp?
SPEAKER_00I did not, but I was always around there and I knew all those people, and so I saw you there. I saw and um that I don't think I've ever had a conversation with your sister.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_00I don't think so.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's interesting because most people have had conversations with.
SPEAKER_00But I know you're you, and of course, I know your dad, who he and I were colleagues for uh nine years uh at Union College together, and he is the man. Um, and so we're if we're gonna start our story, you know. You and I were just discussing in the background, um, your mom, who was a beautiful, lovely lady. Uh, I don't think I don't think she would know who I was, but I definitely knew who she was.
SPEAKER_04100% she knew who you were.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04I think you came over to our house a couple times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Not just like in college, but you I think you came over a few times with Jamie George, too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when he was in house in the house.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, and she recently passed. And as we're talking about this, you know, you're about to tell, you know, your testimony here. Um, I'm sure your mom plays a role in your testimony. Yeah, in in light of the truth of what Jesus has done for you. How
Walking Through Mom’s Final Year
SPEAKER_00how are you um going through this?
SPEAKER_04You know, I feel like losing your mom who is also your best friend. Um I was really blessed to have a mom who could be my best friend. Uh so it's been extremely sad. And they're over the last, so mom was diagnosed with oral cancer in 2022 or one. 2021, maybe. And she initially had a surgery to help clear it out, so then it was basically in remission until the fall of 2024, which is actually when we moved to Lincoln. So we moved to Lincoln that from Rapid um in 20, the summer of 24, and then her cancer came back basically in November. And then she had this horrible year of 2025 where we basically had 12 surgeries overall. Like it was a lot. And then she had this huge surgery in July of 2025, and they ended up taking out all the cancer, putting in a flap, which is like reconstructing all the tissue that they took out, and then that failed, and then they had to do that 14-hour surgery again with a surgery in between there. So, and then that was a whole lot of healing over the and then chemo and radiation, and and then ultimately, I mean, she even ended up having a stroke in November of 25.
SPEAKER_02Mercy.
SPEAKER_04So the year of 2025 was pretty a lot and pretty awful um in hindsight. And then in about Memorial Day of this year, she had a nodule that which was a lymph node that was basically still growing, and it was more cancer on scans. And by Memorial Day, we decided, she decided, I am done. This is not working, we've tried all the things, I'm tired of all these meds that make me feel terrible. So she chose to go into hospice and we supported her in that decision. And I think that was that was actually quite relieving for me because my mother, for as long as I can remember, has always been life is not permanent. And if you're um because life is not permanent, don't uh don't get attached to it. While you can enjoy it, um death happens and it's a very natural part of life. So mom is a nurse, I'm a doctor, my sister's a nurse. We all know about death, right? It's a normal part of life, unfortunately. It doesn't mean it's a painless part of life, but um, but mom was always very comfortable with it, and she talked with us a lot about it. So death was always like not a permanent thing. And when I was a kid, I could not handle that thought process at all. And as a teenager, couldn't handle it. And then even as my first couple of years as a doctor, it was really hard. And then there was just a a shift that happened a couple of years ago where it was just more okay, this isn't forever. And as long as your faith, and this was very much what mom said, is as long as you remember where your identity is at and where the truth is at, which is in Jesus, our savior, and our relationship with God, then there's nothing to fear from death, even though it's gonna hurt. Um, it's not it it's not permanent because Jesus took care of that. So yeah, it sucks to have her not here. Um there was a lot of ugly crying at like very random spots throughout the year. Um and it was interesting because when I would completely fall apart, completely fall apart, I would hit a point where I could not, I could not keep it together anymore. And my sister would always be able to be okay. And when she was at a point where she could not keep it together anymore, I was okay. So there were times like it was just a very beautiful balance that God really had under control, and He made space for everything. And and it was it was really beautiful, and even if you look back at how she passed away um just just in July, like two weeks ago, today. Mercy, two weeks ago today. So but if you look back over that, those last couple of days, it there were so many God moments. Like I've never felt the power or the presence, like the actual
Beliefs Versus Facts About Death
SPEAKER_04presence of God and our angels as much as I did that night.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so while while there will be missing her, because of course, what a wonderful lady and your best friend, um, the morning isn't the same as the world who like there's like well, there's like this mystery of like where's my loved one and when and none of that.
SPEAKER_04Uh or just the permanence of they're no more and I will never see them again. Like I don't have I don't have that. I may not have the answer of where she is at right now, but I can just you know look at it.
SPEAKER_00Meaning like like what happens when you die, like a state of the dead type thing.
SPEAKER_04Yes, I don't know all the answers to that, and that's okay. I have decided I don't get to know all the answers, and I can read and do my best to know, but um let's talk about that for one second because there's these things that we we have, and they're called beliefs.
SPEAKER_00And beliefs are good, and we all have beliefs, but beliefs are not facts. If it was a fact, it wouldn't be a belief, it would be a fact. Like the fact is that we are on a you know on a call here to do this podcast. That's a fact. We don't need to believe or do anything to like we have that. And I think people get like someone might hear you say, like, I don't know. Well, you don't know, you might have a certain belief about it, yeah. And that belief through the years, it may change, it may not change. Um, but uh here here's a belief I have, and I think you hold the same one that if if Jesus didn't resurrect, we're we're all fools to even be talking about him. We're like we need to be pitied. We're idiots, we're morons, but if he did resurrect, then not only are we gonna live forever, that we'll see your mom real soon, like like we're good. Will we miss that person? Certainly we will miss them. Will it hurt? Absolutely. Um, but Jesus is alive, and so if he's alive, um, your mom while she rests now, or where you know, whatever you hold someone holds as a belief, um yeah, that's not gonna be a problem.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I, you know, I have very much tried to take my beliefs. That's a good so I heard this sermon the other day a year a little while ago.
unknownSure.
SPEAKER_04About about like there's there's like a fundamental or like the the base actual belief, and then there's like all these other things that people might think are fundamentals, but really they're more preferences, and so and it's like an inverse triangle to where your the core belief and what makes up the truth is is maybe just one thought, and then maybe all these other things are really just preferences for people, like on what day you choose to worship, or on your state of the dead belief. Does my belief of the state of the dead change what Jesus did for me at the cross? No, so cool.
SPEAKER_00So this is a very for in our faith tradition, that is a very it's not the common way of thinking. Yeah, um, and that is man. If I'm lying, I'm I'm flying. I don't know if you guys you guys tell me if I'm wrong. It seems like in the Seventh-day Adventist tradition, being right is a high priority. It is a very high priority to be right. And it's not like in other systems or ideologies, they don't mind being wrong. I think everybody wants to be right, yeah. But ours just happens to be quite a bit younger. You know, our faith tradition has been around for what, 180 years or something like that. And so if it's been around that long and we came along because others were wrong and we were right, yeah, then there is an importance on being right. And so if someone hears you say, you know, the state of the dead, you know, or what day you want to worship on, someone in our faith tradition be like, no, that is important, and we have to have that right. And there does there's a little tension there, I think.
SPEAKER_04That the tension is only existent because people don't choose to create the space or tolerance
When Being Right Becomes The Point
SPEAKER_04for the other stuff. And maybe that comes from, like, I don't know, maybe that comes from clinging so tightly to um if I don't do everything right, then I might not go to heaven, or I might not, like Jesus might not love me anymore. But that's not and growing up, so growing up Adventist, I people used to ask me all the time, are you ready to go to heaven? If Jesus were to come tomorrow, are you re well and I I always felt like I couldn't safely answer that question until just a few years ago when um and then I was like, why did I ever question this? So uh just a few years ago when I was like, wait a minute, what is my fundamental belief? Like what is and not just for me as an Adventist, and I don't know if you want to like get into what triggered all of this too, but what is ultimately important and ultimately what is important is my relationship with God. And is that solid? And is that dependent on me? So something that I've learned over the last couple of years is that this my salvation, which I don't know why no one ever taught it in this many words, but like my salvation is not dependent on me. Jesus took care of that at the cross, and the only thing that is dependent upon me is my choice to get to choose to accept that and believe it, yeah, and then walk it out, right? Like so, but my even my walking it out looks different because even if I make a mistake or if I am unkind to someone, or if I look at, or if I man, I am a sailor when it comes to swear words, I feel super guilty about it.
SPEAKER_00And you know, like I remember when I was visiting with you guys and you told me that, and I was just cracking up. I was like, at least she owns it, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04Well, and like medical school happened, and I even went to Low Melinda.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my sister said, like, I felt like my sister after medical school, she was different, and I even mentioned that to her one day. I was like, Miriam, I think you're kind of different. And she said, Richard, war changes people, and medical school is war.
SPEAKER_04Oh, it's a battle, it's battle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I was like, Oh, but okay, before we get into this, because I want to mention one thing and then I want to actually do a little foundation work. Okay, go ahead. Um, I was talking with somebody the other day, and they were really frustrated that I was preaching that repentance is not the cause of forgiveness, but that God's forgiveness leads us to repentance.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And so like they were very frustrated. And I realized, oh, when I say certain words, they don't mean the same thing as what this brother means. Or like, and and I determined when he's thinking about all this, he's thinking about like an insurance plan that what happens when you die, we have to have this insurance plan. Like, salvation isn't what has come today and what we get to live in and what we get to operate in, and how we get to live our lives now. It's this thing that we're going to get at the end when we die. And so everything is about well, if you do that, what happens when you die? Are you gonna be saved? Are you gonna be saved? Are you gonna be saved? And I was like, Oh man, we're not speaking the same language. Like, I'm not talking about the insurance plan, I'm talking about living in salvation now. And so we had to get that together. But so you you said, I wonder why you know nobody said it like this. And I think it's because so many Seventh-day Adventists are talking about the insurance plan. They're talking about like what happens when you die.
SPEAKER_04That's what taught that is what's taught. Like if you read, I mean, if you read about it, even if you just read the fundamental 28 or whatever beliefs we have, um, and if you and if you read about the history of the Adventist Church and and all of the almost politics that came from it, I feel like the politics have kind of, and all these extra things, which are really actually preferences, um have gotten in the way of the actual one fundamental. And if we could all as a as a worldwide church get to the one fundamental, which is the actual gospel, then I think we'd be in a lot better place. And there would actually be less but that that one fundamental is not, I think there would be less friction, less tension, less us them, even with other people, like other other denominations. Because I don't think that's what Jesus intended either. I mean, he didn't just make salvation, didn't just happen for the Jews or the Gentiles. It happened for them both, right?
SPEAKER_00Right. So yeah, and I don't I I think our one fundamental is different though.
SPEAKER_04I do too. I do too. The more I'm reading and the more I'm learning, I'm like, oh, oh, but you know, a couple years ago, I don't think I could have answered the question, what is the gospel?
SPEAKER_00All right, we're gonna get to that. I I think the one fundamental, and you tell me if if um like because you have this similar background as I do, I think the Adventist Church's one fundamental is the Sabbath. Like that is their thing. Like this is the fundamental because there is an assumption that everybody else has this gospel thing, and we have it too, but they don't have this thing. So we're building everything on that thing.
SPEAKER_04I think sometimes the gospel that the Adventist Church is really thinking is more of like the Sabbath and the like second coming and Daniel and Revelation and the three angels' messages, yeah.
SPEAKER_00As opposed to what just preached, yeah, what is preached by Paul, John, Jesus, Peter. So um, your background, I think I know. Did your folks meet at PUC?
SPEAKER_04Uh
Family Roots And Identity In Christ
SPEAKER_04no, they actually met at Monterey Bay Academy.
SPEAKER_00Even before PUC. Did they go to PUC after that?
SPEAKER_04Uh, I don't think so. They went to La Sierra. So mom and dad met at Monterey Bay. Dad graduated, mom actually didn't. She got kicked out. Um what'd she get kicked out for? Oh, some okay. So she was watching the house of this person, that one of the faculty members, while that faculty member was out, and a friend of hers was coming over, but that friend invited a bunch of boys, and so mom got blamed. The friends got to stay in school, mom got kicked out.
SPEAKER_00What what year was this?
SPEAKER_04That was her sophomore year. She was a year behind dad. Dad graduated in 76. Do that math.
SPEAKER_00So you're my folks are a little older than your folks, and so they could, they were. I think your dad got to La Sierra just as my parents were leaving La Sierra.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So did your was was Morris Vendon your dad's pastor at La Sierra?
SPEAKER_04I think so, yeah. I think so.
SPEAKER_00Maybe that's why your dad's so cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, my parents are were are well, my mom was super awesome too. Um, but my my parents are sweet. I love them.
SPEAKER_00Super cool, super cool.
SPEAKER_04Super chill, super like I think just really good people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, but like I can now I didn't remember that your dad had been to La Sierra. And I think that your college pastor has a big influence on you. My dad went to La Sierra, and Morris Vendon was his pastor at the university church. Yeah, and if he was still there when your dad was there, and Morris Vendon's whole thing was about it's about a relationship, it's about a relationship he kept. Like, and I think that's why my dad ended up having his certain views, and maybe that's why your dad was heavily influenced, and your dad always seemed like super loving, super caring, love people, and it didn't seem like some of the other Adventist baggage that you could get based on wherever you're coming from or who's who's influencing you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. And I think both when I look at my grandparents, both of my parents had the opportunity to have some of that Adventist baggage because my grandpa, my dad's dad was very um, I don't know, like by the book. So he was a dentist and went to La Molinda and was very, you know, typical night fought in World War II, nineteen forties, nineteen fifties Adventism. And then, but my grandma, I think, was Actually Episcopalian first, and then she converted to Adventism when she met grandpa.
SPEAKER_00And uh but she was also a very both of them are very loving people and cared just cared a lot about people, um which was you know put out in my obviously in my my dad and our families have a lot in common now that I'm thinking about this, like medical field, California, yeah, but uh and then my mom, so her dad was uh he was in like medical administration and worked at like White Memorial in LA, yeah, and then they moved to Hawaii when mom was like eight, and they grew she she spent a lot of her years there until she came back and went to Monterey Bay.
SPEAKER_04And uh Grandma was very a lot more legalistic. If you want to talk about like legalistic Adventism, Grandma Jo was, but also absolutely loved people and loved to help and wanted to like take take care of people. But if I think about her, she was a little bit more um prejudiced too.
SPEAKER_00God bless her.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. She was just oh man.
SPEAKER_00So you're did this uh incident at the school, do you feel like it affected your mom in a in a positive negative way after getting like did it give her an open mind towards people?
SPEAKER_04Uh no. Great question. I think if you were to ask her, she would say, Well, you know, it happened, and I chose to go get my GED, and I went on and had a successful life anyway, so eat that. And I have a husband who absolutely loves me and also graduated from your school. It's like so she I think it definitely bothered her when it happened, but she still made the best of the situation.
SPEAKER_00That's what's dropped me.
SPEAKER_04She was never one to be like, let's feel bad for ourselves, let's go mope, let's be miserable. Like, nope, okay. This happened, it sucked, let's go make the best of the situation.
SPEAKER_00Love it. I bet that gave you and your sister resilience growing up. I bet that absolutely.
SPEAKER_04So we grew up in Colorado, because both of us were born in Colorado, and then we moved to Nebraska when I was nine, and Sandy was 11. And dad took a job at Union, and uh, but before that, he was working in Adventist Health over in Denver. Um, and mom was a nurse, and mom worked nights, and I don't know how she did it because she was always there. I don't so sometimes when there's night shift, um, you just sometimes don't see that parent or you hear that from people. Right. And I my mom was always available to me whenever I needed her. And I don't really remember her not being available even if she was working.
SPEAKER_00How many years did she work nights?
SPEAKER_04I want to say until I was about uh it was a couple years after we moved here.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_04I was probably 11 by the time she switched to days, and then she ended up hurting her back, and so she flipped into administration um and like teaching. And that was more of a day shift job, obviously.
SPEAKER_00The heart of a mom, though. Yeah. To to be able to do those what what, 312s and then still be able to hang in with the family.
SPEAKER_04I don't know how my sister did that for years and only just recently went. I mean, Sandy's been a nurse for since she graduated from union, which I graduated from union in 2010. So she graduated in 2009. And she's been a nurse that long and just switched to dates.
SPEAKER_00It's easier, I'm sure, but it takes years from your life. Like it is hard to do night shift.
SPEAKER_04Dude, I don't know how she anyway. She's a happier person.
SPEAKER_00So what what you grew describe to me like the spiritual life of your family growing up. What would you say?
SPEAKER_04So we grew up um pretty tight knit. And I really always always felt like my relationship with God was always a relationship and never a checklist. So I think that's something that both of my parents worked really hard to ingrain in us. And my mom, for as long as I can remember, always said your identity is in Christ. So I don't care what someone else says about you, if they say you're fat, if they say you're ugly, if they say your speech sounds weird, you don't get to put your identity in what those people say about you because your identity belongs in Jesus and put it there.
SPEAKER_00Let's go.
SPEAKER_04And so I always grew up thinking that. But we would have like otherwise, we were, you know, I mean, my mother and my father were present. My sister and I were are friends now, and for the most part, got along. There's a couple significant stories of sisterly fighting, but otherwise, otherwise, you know, my sister's an awesome person too, and married to an awesome guy. And so it's like we I just had a really good, um, really good upbringing and a good relationship with both my parents and my sister. And we would do, um, I remember when we were going to bed, dad would sit in the hallway and read to us. And whether it was a Christian, like he would read us stories from the Bible, or whether it was um, we used to read the Mandy books. Do you know about the Mandy books? They're literally and yeah, it's about a little girl and she has a white cat and stories, just fun stories. And um, and so he would read it to us every night. So we'd have like a nightly worship, and then Friday evening we'd actually have like normal worship where we'd sit together in the living room, and um, there would be like Sabbath music on, which is usually quiet piano or instrumental music, and we'd read the Bible together and then talk about what it means. Dad would always say, Okay, let's read John 3 16. Now, what does that mean? Like, and and you know, now I realize that it's good to read into those verses or to like digest that information. But I love how the scripture like grows with us. You know, I think that's beautiful. Anyway, so and then Sabbath we would go to church. We would always try and clean our house Friday night, and everything would be done by sundown, right?
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_04And then Sabbath morning we'd wake up and go to Sabbath school and church, and then Sabbath afternoon would be some kind of either outdoor activity or nap. And and then sundown would happen and we would do something fun once we got older. But usually by sundown, when we were little, we were in bed.
SPEAKER_00So popcorn and apples on Saturday night?
SPEAKER_04Smoothies, let's go, sometimes carrots and ranch.
SPEAKER_00You're the realest adventus of them all. So you felt like you and God were were good, like you there was a beautiful picture of God as a loving father as you grew up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I think so. And I think dad really takes some, I don't want to say takes some pride, but he worked really hard to make sure that we had a loving picture of a father.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I think that's kind of why he did that. Was because he wanted to make sure that we had a a good picture of God too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can't yeah, I can't say enough nice things about your dad. Your dad, I've never seen him frustrated. Oh I'm sure, I'm sure you have. I have never seen it. I I've just seen he was always even and always smiling, and you know, he's a photographer, and people like in photography, you're just dealing with people, and he always had a very gentle way with people, and so I always appreciated that about him. So, as you kept, you know, growing up, um was there any tension with who you saw God to be and like what was going on in life or how the church was handling things, or how did that go?
SPEAKER_04So, no, actually, when we moved to Lincoln, it's a big we attended college view attend now too, uh College
Big Church Comfort And Later Tension
SPEAKER_04View Church, and it um it was a big church because uh when I grew up in Colorado, we lived in the mountains and attended a little tiny mountain church, and it was like I don't know, maybe 30 members, and it was a little old house, and we would get together Sabbath morning and um have a sermon, and then you'd have potluck and hang out and talk with friends, and and you you knew everyone. Um so yeah, so that was um growing up in the mountain house. Uh it was very um small, but I never ever heard any politics. Like the older people in the church were grandma and grandpa Jim and Anne, and um and uh m Mrs. Dorothy, and there was never any like well, these people are like I just never knew what church politics were.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04So it was just a family and everyone was loving and it was fine, right? No one I don't think every anyone ever like mistreated you. And the church went together on campouts up in like at Lake Dillon, which is outside of Breckenridge, and so it was a it was a warm community. And then when we moved to Lincoln, Pastor Greg Nelson was the pastor at CBC when we moved here. And I remember the morning we were visiting, and I just threw a complete fit and was like, I don't want to go to some dumb big mega church, and if not, it's gonna be miserable, and some guy is gonna yell at us from the pulpit about damnation, and I'm just not into it. And my mother, bless her, was like, girl, get it together, basically. You're coming. I don't care that you're nine years old and have an attitude, get your butt in the car, or you will have significant consequences.
SPEAKER_00And Greg Nelson is probably the opposite of a like he had a like a beautiful sermon, and then he'd sit down at the piano for a song he wrote like that morning for his sermon and sing the song, and it was like all beautiful.
SPEAKER_04Just uh and another, like just good soul, God-fearing good soul guy. And again, cares about people and all the things. But he so we would we sat, I remember this. This first time we were here, we sat on the right side of the sanctuary, and then once we actually moved here, we sat at at the like the second section in on the left, kind of like two to three rows from the front, and have stayed there for the last however many years we've lived here, which we moved in 1997. So apparently that's 30 years.
SPEAKER_00That's your assigned seat. Everybody ends up getting their assigned C. You got you guys are left left front people. My family was always uh left front people as well. Yeah, see, whatever church we were in, left front. Now I sit in the back with my family. Like my my parents are left front people. Apparently, the Richard Youngs were back right people. We don't go near the front.
SPEAKER_04I love that. Um, but yeah, so it was it was beautiful, and it again, a humongous church, but I and I think it was probably because dad is such a people person, so much so that I think it kind of drove mom nuts because mom was very much she's a lot more introverted, and she was very much more like, all right, how many people are we gonna talk to before we get to go home? But she um it always, even though it was a big church, it still felt like a community and a family. And I all the way through high school and college, I never dealt with church politics. The first time I dealt with church politics, I went to well, even I off so I went to College View Academy, was involved in church, went to all the way from fourth grade through senior year at CBA, and then went to union for all five years. I took a year out and went as an SM to Denmark for a year. A student missionary is what an SM is for everyone else. And uh so I took a year out in there. So I actually did college in five years, and um and yeah, it was great. Um I was involved in campus ministries at union and and music and all the things, like all the things. I was probably a little over stretched, but I loved it. I had like five different jobs around campus. I like regularly was in like 22 credit hours a semester because of all the extra music stuff.
SPEAKER_00And you're like, and I have to take the impact, and I have okay.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and I'm taking all my sciences and trying to get into medical school, um, which I was so naive, Richard. Like, mercy. And God had a plan, and I would just kind of went
The Road To Medical School
SPEAKER_04with it. But he um I when I applied for medical school, I only applied it to three schools, and I got interviews at two of them. Oh, I applied to four schools. I got interviews at two of them, which is La Melinda and at UNMC here in Omaha. And UNMC was just not my jam. Like it was not a good interview at all. Um, and then I interviewed at La Melinda and I think that went fine. And then I went away for the last semester of my senior year because I was international rescue and relief, and then we went to Nicaragua for that last year, the last um semester of the last year, and did all of our international rescue and relief training, which is exactly what that says. Um and apparently I got my denial letter at UNMC before I got the acceptance letter to Loma Linda, and my parents didn't tell me about it because I was in a third world country and we didn't have great communication, and they're just like, we're not gonna tell her until we get all the letters. And so about uh it was probably about March, because it was January to April that we were gone, and it was March when I they called us on this satellite phone and they said we gotta talk to Krista, and I was at some like in the middle of nowhere jungle. Like you're saving a someone from a well, you're you're parachuting in remote clinic, because yeah, that's what we did, and um they told me I got accepted there, so it was a humongous god thing that I even got into medical school, and then um when I actually got there, people were like, Oh yeah, we applied to like 20, 30 different schools, and I was like, Oh, oh, this is a big deal.
SPEAKER_00So when it came to actually know that medical school was a big deal.
SPEAKER_04Oh well, I did, but like I just wanted to be a doctor, and this is the steps that I had to do to make that happen. I think had I known how much of a big deal it was, besides like being well balanced and getting good grades, which I was already driven to do, then I don't know that I would have pursued it because it it probably would have been way. So had I known it was as much as what I went through, I don't think I would have gone that way. I probably would have been a barista.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I think about this, I think the culture of your family makes a huge difference. I think in my family, like it was understood that we were gonna go to college, and then it was understood that it was under like there were they were holding out hope maybe I would go to medical school, but then when they realized like he doesn't like to work hard or study, like I got okay grades, yeah, but then it was understood, oh Miriam's gonna go to medical school and she's going to be a doctor. And I don't think it ever escaped her mind that it wasn't ever up for a question that she was gonna be a doctor, and so it was like, Well, this is what you do. Pardon me.
SPEAKER_04Are your parents medical?
SPEAKER_00My dad and all of his brothers and sisters are either a doctor or a dentist.
SPEAKER_04Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_00So they come, we come from a professional family, yeah, and so it's just like my grandfather told his four kids, there are two good professions in life, dentistry and medicine. Pick which one would you like to do? Yeah. And he's got two dentists and two doctors as kids now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That wouldn't have worked with us.
SPEAKER_04Um and honestly, when I was growing up, the options, which my mom always said, always said, you can do whatever you want. You can do whatever you put your mind to. But when I was in school and going through all like school, the options for a young girl in the Adventist church were really a home wife or a nurse or a teacher.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's your that's your option. Otherwise, it's too much work. You're not gonna have time to have a family, you're not gonna be able to worship Jesus, you're not gonna, you're gonna break all the Ten Commandments, you're whatever. I don't know. There was a lot. And that was your option as a little girl who was Adventist. And my sister fell in love with nursing because mom was a nurse. And my sister is an amazing nurse, like amazing. But I did not want to do that. And and I don't, I think I'd be a fine nurse, but I do a lot better giving the orders.
SPEAKER_00That's hilarious. My my wife just she's a nurse practitioner, and she looks at these nurses that are like young, just graduated, and she looks at them and she's like, I can't do this. Like, I can't, like, even considering going back and being out of college and starting nursing, because she's done it for you know so many years and now is a nurse practitioner, so she doesn't have to be a floor nurse, and she's like, Yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_04It is hard, it is hard. And I uh that that is how I felt in medical school. Like, I actually ended up taking the MCAT twice because the first time I took it, apparently I didn't get a good enough score, which I don't even know what I was supposed to do, but I told my advisor at Union, and they're like, uh, maybe you should take that again.
SPEAKER_00Was that Dr. Abby or Dr. Friedline?
SPEAKER_04Actually, my um my advisor was Doug Tallman.
SPEAKER_00Oh, because you were international rescue remember.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was IRR. Yeah. But my pre-med advisor portion of that was Dr. Abby. And he told me my first year with my parents in the room. Um, he asked me a super hard question and said, Do you are you sure that you want to do this? Because I don't know that you're cut out for it. And I was like, What? Yes, this is what I want to do. What are you talking about? I can do whatever I put my mind to, and I put my mind to this, and this is what I'm gonna do. My mom was apparently livid. And how Dr. Abby asked it, which Dr. Abby and I are great friends now, but like how he asked it was just so nonchalant but direct. And and so I answered it back like that. But mom was apparently super upset.
SPEAKER_00Well, because his strategy, and I don't think it's a bad one, is weeding people out.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's like you gotta have the want to, because if you don't have the want to, this not it might not work for you.
SPEAKER_04And especially at the undergrad level. Um, I think once you get into medical school, they really try to at least they really try to help you finish.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's not in their best interest to accept people that don't finish their program. Like it's in their best interest, if they're gonna accept you, they're gonna try to get you through.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. And some medical schools, though, don't do that. So even in their first and second years, they do a lot of weeding out.
SPEAKER_00So I guess if you have a gobzillion dollars and you don't like your reputation is already like I don't think Loma Linda's like Harvard or Washington or some of these other schools that already have all that. So you went through um Oh, church. What were we talking about? Church, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So went to university church at La Molinda while I was gone, also super like humongous church, but still very family. Randy Roberts love loved listening to him. Was also I took a couple classes from him too, and was also just a good, like, a good person, a good advisor, has a good grasp on who Jesus is and and how to love people. And so when I look back over my growing up years, I was very much like nurtured in an environment of people who love to love others. And that was very much what they tried to do was even though we're not all not perfect, Jesus still loves us, so I'm gonna love you too. And let's pass that on. And then I went to um after and then I became an adult after being an adult for a while. Um, Josh and I got married in my fourth year of medical school, and then um I matched in residency to a place in Rapid City, South Dakota, and that's where we stayed before we moved back here. Um and we joined the church there, and it was a smaller church,
First Real Taste Of Church Politics
SPEAKER_04and uh and that was the first time I experienced um church politics. I didn't really like experience a lot of it because the the first pastor we had was pastor. Pastor Purdy, and he was he's also another really good, caring soul. Um, but there was also a lot of I could suddenly see a lot of church members who were either really legalistic or maybe not as loving and unconditionally loving as all the people that I went to church with growing up, I guess. And in big churches, you don't always see the people who maybe are like that because there's plenty of other people to fill your space with.
SPEAKER_00You know, CVC, and I'm sure it's a great church. I lived there for many years. I never felt like it was my home, and that is because I didn't have a Sabbath school. Like I think like Dan Klein's Sabbath school or like uh the one that I don't know if you did your dad go to the one with Chris Blake and Buell and all the Sabbath. Okay, I'm sure like that was an amazing one. I was a young man, I didn't really have that, so it's like I was going to church with everyone, and that kind of means you're going to church with nobody. Yeah, and so and if I'm not from if you're not from Lincoln, you're not fr like a college view person. I was a union guy, I wasn't a college view person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so it it felt like this, oh, this is just this big thing. But then if you move from that to like a 80 member church or like 80 people that show up, 200 in the books, yeah. Because it's a little, it's a little different. Yeah, you know what's going on a little bit more.
SPEAKER_04Like Josh used to go to church and I'd ask him how it was, because I was in residency. So like every other weekend I was in the hospital working. And never once, so there was a big like question asked to us, I don't know, somewhere along the line of if you what happens if you get a job where you have to work on Sabbath? And I instantly knew that medicine was going to be a job where I'd have to work on Sabbath. And I full on said, well, Jesus healed on the Sabbath too. Isn't that what he's trying to? Wait, am I not supposed to love people on Sabbath? I don't understand. So it was always very much like, I don't know. I never felt I never felt guilty about having to like be at work on Sabbath or like in the hospital, but because it was always another super special day in the hospital too. The weekends are a little, you know, calmer in the hospital. We don't want to use the quiet word, but they're a little calmer in the hospital. And and like admin's not there, and it's a little bit more chill for the most part. And it's really just like focused on patient care. So you had a little bit more time to be with the patients and commune with them. And so I would try to do things like that on Sabbath, but also becoming a little bit jealous of everyone else who doesn't work on Sabbath and the like rest they got to have. Because for real, what is Sabbath? Now as an adult and a little bit further in my walk with God, I realized that Sabbath is really a gift of rest and peace. And and that is, or like as Pastor Rich used to teach us, Sabbath needs to stop. Shout out to Pastor Rich. Yeah, yeah. So um one of my best friends we like really met in Rapid City. Apparently, our dads went to Monterey Bay Academy together, also. Um, so my dad said, Hey, you shout out to Tim Vigil. Yeah, right, that's Tim Vigil. You gotta meet this girl named Kelly Wasmerly, he's Tim's daughter, you'll love her. And she went to Union, so I graduated from Union as she was starting union. And then she was coming up there to teach at the school. And apparently I like looked at her and she was trying to like say hello, and I completely ignored her. Didn't even realize I did that. Oh, that must have been one of those days where I was really tired and I needed to go home. But we finally touched face and hit it off and have been best friends ever since. Um, but she asked me, she had to go out of town for a business, like for a vacation, and the church chose to have a business meeting at that time when she was gone, and there was some big things happening at the school, apparently. And she filled me in on this and said, Can you go to this business meeting and be my voice, please? And I was like, Oh, sure, no problem. Like coming from a resident who has been like in hospital business meetings or like administrative meetings at the hospital or any kind of meeting for a doctor is pretty like here's your agenda. This is our one hour allotted time limit, and and you meet the agenda points and you go home. And no one is but her at the end of the day, even if you don't get your way.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04So we went to this business meeting, and oh Lord, I figured out what church politics are like. And how much church politics can sometimes get attached to people's salvation. And if you don't agree with one person, then good luck ever talking to them in church again. And uh it was rough, like rough, rough.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure.
SPEAKER_04And I had asked, well, she had asked me to like speak up and ask some questions. So I asked them, and then when they didn't have good answers, I was like, wait a minute, your financial treasurer has no background in financial administration. You mean you're completely unqualified for the job that you were doing? Why did you accept this job? And that's where the problems are at. And anyway, so anyway, that triggered that, and all of a sudden I figured out what church politics were. And it kind of, I don't want to say it went downhill from there.
SPEAKER_00Um I don't want to say it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But it definitely changed my perspective of church.
SPEAKER_00Hmm, that's too bad.
SPEAKER_04And uh that was interesting because all of a sudden church had this like church had always kind of been a safe place and a place to go on Sabbath and never a place of contention. And all of a sudden it was so I called my parents after that meeting and I was like, wait a minute, is this normal? And they're like, Oh girl, have you never been to a church business meeting? And I was like, No, you never invited us. And they're like, and this is why.
SPEAKER_00Your dad's like, I hate everybody at our church.
SPEAKER_04Oh, mercy. So anyway, that was that. And then it's why I keep going. Because a couple years later, we got a new pastor and he brought some people up to get baptized. And when I got baptized, I was baptized at the Pathfinder Campery in 1999 in Oshkosh in this huge pond pool with like a thousand other people. And Pastor Ron Whitehead baptized me, and he was also the guy that was the pastor at the summer camp I went to in Colorado at Glacier View, and also just another good soul. And like, so I was very uh, do you love Jesus? The questions I was asked is do you love Jesus? Do you want to spend your life serving him? And those are the two questions I was asked, and I said yes and yes, and I was dunked, and he gave me a huge hug, and dad took a picture, and yeah, and that was it. And then we went and had a big celebration. Well, fast forward, and I figured that was how I mean, maybe not quite on the mass baptismal scale.
unknownRight.
Baptism Vows And Legalistic Fear
SPEAKER_04I figured that was how everyone was baptized because that's how they baptized at CVC, too. There was never a recitation of things, and um like some churches, they make you make like a vow. Yeah, there's apparently like 20 anywhere from like three to twenty-seven vows that you have to say. And uh our pastor had this couple do uh the vows, and I don't know, he was reading through these things and they were holding up their right hand and vowing to do this stuff, and this was all very legalistic stuff. Like, I will always go to church on Sabbath, I will never drink alcohol, I will never drink, I will refrain from substances, I will be faithful to my spouse, I will not work on Sabbath, I will like things that things that you're promising to God, yep. Right, and then like I I also grew up saying, wait a minute, but we gotta be careful with what we vow to God because we might accidentally vow our first child, and then we have to give them, and that sucks. So like, yeah, so that kind of dove us into oh my goodness, why did he just have this couple do that? And I never had to do that, and I don't remember signing that, and I never did actually, apparently. My Adventist like membership was apparently lost until I went to Rapid City Church when I was on the school board, and you have to be a member of the church in order to be on a school board, and she they were trying to find my membership papers, and they're like, we don't have any like documentation that you're actually a member of the Adventist Church. And I probably should have said nothing and just stepped down from the board at that point. Hindsight's 2020, but like but they we called Pastor Pastor Ron and he gave us what we needed, but mercy. It was it was it was interesting. So but I don't think that ever that that kind of came into play now when I'm like, well, I still like have salvation in Jesus, I still know who my savior is, I still have good identity, regardless of what my papers say because my papers are apparently the Bible and what it says, like not what church that I choose to belong to. For sure.
SPEAKER_00So you were you were starting to see it was different than than what you had growing up as an adult.
SPEAKER_04You're like, oh, this is Yeah, very much so. Very much so. It was very I started to see a lot more of the legalistic side of it and how much people put their how many things I feel like people tied their salvation to.
SPEAKER_00Mercy.
SPEAKER_04Like if you don't, um uh like you can't be on the school board if you're not a member. Like, can we talk about that? So then you only have people who are members, and that is who you are limiting yourself to to help support this institution. And I feel like that's also doing yourself a dis a disservice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because you're gonna weed out a lot of people who have good qualification who can actually help you. Um yeah, yeah, but anyway.
SPEAKER_00So this was a growing up time. What happened after that?
SPEAKER_04Um, after that, Josh and I went home and we did a lot of Googling on what
Coffee Controversy And Rumor Cycles
SPEAKER_04it did just happen. What just happened? Are we actually like, oh, there are all of these different ways apparently to baptize people? And then it kind of dug us on or took us onto this deep dive into like what is baptism? And wait a minute, and I I was feeling really overwhelmed, like in all of the different stuff that I was reading and the different ways to do it, and what is the right way, right? It brings us back to that. What is the right thing? And I was afraid that it had been wrong the whole time. And then it came back to, I think it I was talking with mom about it or something, and it came back to who is your identity in again? Jesus and God. And and what does he say? Oh, okay, so let's go back and read about baptism in the Bible and how does it go? And and what is the goal of that? Okay, so we're I'm learning about this, right? This was in 2023. 2023? I don't know. It was do you remember when you came up to Rapid? Because you came a couple months after this.
SPEAKER_00Um don't remember. Yeah, I mean 2023 sounds too early. No, it could have been 2023.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, or yeah, yeah. And I think the baptism stuff happened in like the end of 22. Um, and uh then we so that was all happening, and then we started doing this church breakfast, and um it was a wonderful idea where before Sabbath school, uh we different groups of people would serve breakfast. Like, and you it was up to you on what you wanted to bring. And um we uh brought coffee and Lord have mercy. I did not and you know what? I went to medical school, and I'm pretty sure I kept the Starbucks next to my apartment in business. So I was there probably two times a day, like just to try to function to get through school, right? And um, and they uh yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. So we brought we brought coffee to this, and that led us into with like initially people would say things quietly and uh passive aggressively, and then it was just a lot more aggressively that people were just like uh this is not what Sister White says is appropriate, and we need to not do this, or we're not bringing people into Jesus. And I was like, and then the story of Cornelius kept popping through my head, and right, Peter and Paul and Cornelius. I don't know, the unclean and the clean story, and it was just it was a lot happening. So that happened, and then we were trying to do a young adult Sabbath school, and one of our teachers wanted to do the love reality curriculum, and I was like, uh cool, let's do it. If you think people would love it, go for it. Well, apparently you're supposed to like look into things, and we got a lot of resistance on that. And I was on the Sabbath school committee.
SPEAKER_00Did you know anything about love reality back then?
SPEAKER_04No, I had no idea what that was. No idea what that was. And I was like, is this like a reality show?
SPEAKER_00And the teacher did they get the final rose at the end? Uh if you love Jesus, you have the final rose?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_04The teacher who I had good. I mean, uh, she was my friend, and she like she I think she had really, really good intentions. And so I just trusted her and was like, I think this is great. And well, so Kelly and I were both on Sabbath school committee, and Kelly knows all things. I don't know how that girl knows so much, but she knows. She knows, and so then she proceeded to fill me in on what well, we were in the Sabbath school committee meeting and brought up, hey, this is what we want to do for the young adult Sabbath schools. And um Pastor said no. And all the other adults of the group said no, except for these two adults, Kelly and Krista.
SPEAKER_00You're not considering yourself an adult, yeah. You're like, oh yeah, I guess I'm an adult.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, right. Like, except these two children. No. Like we so I asked Kelly later, I was like, what is happening? What is going on? So then she proceeded to fill me in, and then I just kind of did a little bit of reading online, and I didn't see anything wrong. So I was really confused. I was just really confused as to why what is wrong with the message? What's wrong with the message? And uh I think whatever I had read initially was very much where you guys say, don't hear what we're not saying. Because I didn't say that. And I hate it when people hear what I did not say. So I was very much on board with that sentence.
SPEAKER_00You're like, this bothers me. I'm with them. I don't care what they're saying.
SPEAKER_04Who cared what your message is? You said the right sentence first. No, so uh then I watched your online because you have your YouTube videos on your website, right?
SPEAKER_00I'm sure we had something.
SPEAKER_04I watched the first four of them and was like, there's nothing wrong with this, I don't have a problem. And so then I had to ask her, like, what is going on? And then I found the Death to Life podcast and started listening to your story on there, and and whoa, and then it all made sense because I had kind of heard what had happened to you. Um I don't know if I heard it through my parents or oh, in Kansas City? Yeah, yeah, at Midland. Um, but then I listened to your podcast and was like, whoa, that's a lot more. And uh kind of unfortunate. Yeah, so that was where I ran into death uh love reality and death to life and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00And this is before they invited me up there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, before we invited you.
SPEAKER_00And I think you and I maybe connected a little bit before I got up there, a few times.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, I think so. I think so.
SPEAKER_00And you were you seemed like you were you were open but curious. You're like, what, you know, I'm curious. What are you guys? But you were not offended or in any way like I think when you're a doctor and people are tripping about stuff, and you've been through some like going through medical school, jumping through hoops, having all of these doctors try to cut you down to size, like all this stuff. Like you've been through some stuff that when other people are nervous about something, you're like, Well, how can how bad could this be? Like, I I experience things in my life.
SPEAKER_04I think you bring up a good point because in going through medical school, you actually like deal with people dying. Yeah. And like, and you see some really, really awful families and some really awful situations. And when people get bent out of shape about uh practicing with or without a microphone, or about it deciding how a person wants to experience Jesus. I I don't get to decide that. That's not my place. I that is one thing I'm going to choose to not control because God has that under control, and far be it for me to decide that for someone else.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And and yeah, there's bigger fish to fry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, and sometimes you gotta let people fry those with God and not, and I don't need to be in on the picture. So yeah. So, and I think also my there where there were times in like high school where we would have to be studying for our religion tests or whatever, and like we'd talk about the fundamental beliefs, and I dude, I did not understand them, I could not list them out for you. My pastor now, bless him, just did a 27 section series on them, and good for him. Cool, like he said some very nice things in there, and uh, and then some of it I didn't agree with, and that's fine. That's fine. Yeah, I I yeah, that's fine. So it was very much like I as much as I need people to create space for me to grow and have my experience with Jesus, I need to also give people that space. Um, because there were times where Josh would be doing some studying and he would talk to me about stuff, and he'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, look at this and the history of this, and he would dive into Sister White and and whatever problem he had with her or whatever, you know, like um, and I he would like fill me in on all his history, and I still kept coming back to well, I totally understand when you when you grow up in an institution, you are taught all of those things of that institution, even maybe a little bit subliminally. And um, and so sometimes when you start to become an adult and experience faith on your own, your religion can has to be deconstructed a little bit. Like sometimes we need to go in and demo some stuff and remodel and build it the right way.
SPEAKER_00You're like, why do I believe that thing? I have believed that thing, but why do I? And sometimes the reason you believed it isn't good enough for you anymore.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And it's it doesn't make actual sense. It was just like, no, this is what we believe, but you're like, but what's the rationale? And the rationale is because we believe it, and you're like, that doesn't fly with me.
SPEAKER_04Right, right. I need to have an actual why. And and my mom was that way too. Like, very much don't just have a rule because it's a rule.
SPEAKER_00You need to have a why behind that rule, and that why needs to be because she got kicked out of the NBA for something that she didn't do. Man, come on, yeah, yeah, justice.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but like even at CBA, when they had like a no-flip-flop rule, she's like, Do you want to have some logic behind that rule? Because this woman grew up in Hawaii where you had to wear flip flops to get into the building, you couldn't go to school barefoot.
SPEAKER_00So when you started learning more and more about what we were saying, did you find that there was something different like that? Because I hadn't heard that we were free from sin. So when I started, when I first heard that, I was like, Okay. Okay, this is big. And then the whole idea of forgiveness,
Seeing Jesus In The Temple
SPEAKER_00did was that a big deal to you, or what what was the biggest deal to you that you heard us preaching?
SPEAKER_04Um, so I remember when you came up and you said, What is your relationship with sin? And I was like, What the hell are you saying, Rich? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Like And like, stop with the trick questions.
SPEAKER_04I'm not trying to hear what you're not saying, but I'm not trying to have a relationship with it. I don't want to do it. Like, that's no. What are you saying? Anyway, so you asked me that, and there were still some things in like, and I think that's that way too. If you go to anybody's like religion or whatever, um they have words that they say that like you said earlier, they they just don't, you're not saying the same thing, or you don't totally understand.
SPEAKER_00We're using the same word, but the definitions are different, and we're speaking past each other, right?
SPEAKER_04So I didn't fully understand all of that until I actually went, you guys did wave one and I went through it on a live session. And Jonathan was preaching about um the temple. The temple. So, really honestly, if you want to know what the biggest thing was, was understanding that the temple is actually a description of Jesus. Like, I did not get that growing up. I the temple was this thing I had to memorize how many like curtains there were and loaves of bread and the altars and the holy places, and and and then Jesus tore that that veil, the curtain, and and now I get to be with God. So understanding that the temple was actually like a picture of God and Jesus was amazing. And you in there it it talks about like washing the hands and the baptism and the blood, and it was just a really, really beautiful picture. Um, so that was honestly one of the biggest, the biggest things. And then once I understood that, then I uh uh as I started reading through, I then started getting oh, at the cross, Jesus died, and he overcame sin. And because he overcame sin, that he did that to help reconcile us with God. And that's what the gospel is is the story of what Jesus did, not what I need to do to hasten his coming. And I could never have answered, what is the gospel? Like if you asked what is the gospel, if you asked what's the gospel to me now, that's my question, that's my answer. Is it's the story of what Jesus did to reconcile us with God and and overcome sin. And because of that, and and then understanding and walking out that identity, I had always grown up understanding that I'm a child of God and that's where my identity is at. So mom did a really good job at like ingraining that into my head. So I never, ever, ever questioned that I was a child of God and he loved me unconditionally. And he also understands and knows that we don't get it all, and I don't have a full understanding of all these things in the theology, but I don't have to have a 100% theological training and understanding of it all in order to still be reconciled to him and to still be close to him.
SPEAKER_00Somebody asked me that the other day because they were frustrated with something I was saying. They're like, Well, then what do you need to do to be to have salvation? And I was like, confess with your lips and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord. And they were like, Is that it?
SPEAKER_04That's it. That's all the Bible says. That's all the Bible says. And when you look at it like that, it was just really relieving to like have that be it. And to like honestly have the fact be it's that simple.
SPEAKER_00It is that's very difficult for people that it is that simple.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it is, it is, and especially I think when you grow up in in faiths or religions that uh put a little bit of emphasis on work while saying it's not works.
SPEAKER_00They have a funny way of getting back to you, but you gotta do this thing. Yeah, like they feel very unsafe unless at the end of the sentence there's but you better do that thing. Because like I was talking to another brother the other day, and really trying to drive point the drive the point home that what he was saying was actually a works-based legalism. Of course, he couldn't see it. No legalistic person knows they're legalistic, right? Nobody's like, Yeah, I'm a little legalistic. They all think they're right down the middle. And I was trying to point out, like, by you saying that you do something that causes God to act, like just by that, like it isn't He has done something and you act, which makes it your works. And and he could not say that because at the end of the day, if I say that, then how am I gonna get you to live the way I want you to live? Yeah, like there's this fear there, and the fear I think it revolves around Sabbath keeping. Well, well, but they have to keep the Sabbath, right? But they have to keep the Sabbath, right? And I think the Sabbath, I've said this before, is one of the main reasons why an Adventist has a hard time understanding the gospel. Because there's this Sabbath thing looming, because it's what we've been built on. We are the ones who found that out.
Salvation Security Beyond Performance
SPEAKER_04It was um like understanding revelation and Daniel and the prophecies. And how do I how do I take all these other things that I have been taught and where do those fit in? Where do those fit in? And some of them are cool like uh info or like maybe a cool opinion, or I don't know, a different way to look at something, right? Sure. Um uh but I don't have to like fully maybe I could say it like this. I think it really freed me when I understood that my Adventism or my Adventist beliefs are extremely different than my salvation and my security in Jesus. And uh my Adventism changed from being my faith to just being maybe a church that I attend or a community I'm a member of. And when I actually looked at it that way, then all of a sudden I was like, wait a minute. So I belong to the American Academy of Family Physicians and I have to pay my dues every year. Is my tithe suddenly like my dues to the Adventist Church? Oh well, but tithe is so much like a tie to your salvation. Like you have to give 10%. You have to give 10%. Why aren't you giving your 10%? And if you don't give your 10%, then Jesus isn't gonna bless you because that's how I grew up thinking. And and if you don't give your 10% to the tithe line, then good luck on blessings.
SPEAKER_00And now in our church, there's big controversy over all of that.
SPEAKER_04There sure is. And I think and I think it's interesting, and I think also understanding that change and controversy and all this stuff is gonna happen. That's a part of humanity. And if you don't get yourself into a space where you can create space for that and allow it to happen, uh you're gonna be miserable. And I have no desire to have more gray hairs, unnecessarily.
SPEAKER_00So what you're saying, it seems like you you're settled in the assurance that like, no, this is the bottom line. Jesus is Lord. If I confess that with my lips, believe my heart, like all of these other things, yeah, like I can have I can believe a certain thing about it, but yeah, that doesn't have an opinion about it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but it's not gonna change, it's not gonna change the truth. So, dad, just yesterday, dad and I went to pick up mom from the Nebraska Cremation Society, and um and we went and got her remains together. And on our way up there, dad started talking, and his question to me was um was exactly
Ready For Jesus Without Panic
SPEAKER_04that. Do you do you ever think about when Jesus is coming back? And and is it and are you ready for it? And and I asked him, I was like, are you tell me more? Tell me more. And he was kind of asking about me, but also talking through what he is going through. And I said, Are you having um are you questioning my if I am secure in who I am and my relationship with Jesus? Or are you asking this from am I ready for Jesus to come back because I want to see mom again? Or I want to be back with her. And he is like, maybe both. And so I said, Absolutely, I am ready for Jesus to come because I want heaven here too, and I want to be with mom and everyone else who's passed away. And and yeah, life here on earth sometimes sucks. Sometimes it's sometimes very beautiful, and because it was so beautiful with mom, that's why it hurts so much now. So, yes. Um on that aspect, yeah, I'm ready for heaven. Uh on uh, am I ready for Jesus to come back? Is there something I can do to hasten that day? No, the Bible says I'm the Bible says we aren't gonna know when that is. We aren't gonna know when that is, and so there is nothing I can do to make that happen faster. But there is something that Jesus asked me to do, and that is to spread his love and the truth about what he did to others, um, uh did for others, like spread that truth to other people. And and then to ask your question on if I am personally ready, like it that is a question that I think a lot of Adventists ask is are you ready for heaven? Like, are you ready for Jesus to come? Make sure you're ready. Make sure you're ready. And when you grow up in the Adventist church, that really means get your ducks in a row and make sure you're doing your good things, yeah. So that you're ready for Jesus to come and stand at his pearly gates and you know, whatever else they we think that means.
SPEAKER_00So I but means stop doing that thing. That thing that you're thinking about right now, stop doing that thing.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04And he, I told dad, I was like, you know what? I um I a hundred percent believe that Jesus died for me at the cross. And I said this to him in this many words. He died for me at the cross, and in dying for me at the cross, he overcame sin and its separation of us from God. And so therefore, he reconciled us back with Jesus. Back with Jesus reconciled us back with God. And that separation is not there anymore. And so, therefore, sin has no hold on me, and I am a hundred percent reconciled with God. And there is nothing that is going to change that. There is nothing that I can do to change that. There is nothing, even if I choose to not believe it, it is still a fact of something that happened. And so it's just like saying the sky is blue. Well, right now it's gray. Okay, so the sky is gray out there.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, it's still blue behind those clouds. It's still blue.
SPEAKER_04The sky is blue at the end, right? Like that's a fact. Even if I choose to not believe it because right now I see gray, it doesn't change the fact that the blue is still back there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and so I think it's very I I told him that, and I was like, there's nothing I can do to change that at all. And he was just starting to ask, like, say some things, and and I was like, no, dad, answer that question. Is there anything that you can do to change what God or what Jesus did for you? And is there anything that you can do to make that more potent or more powerful or to make it happen any differently? Or to make it happen any less? And he ultimately came back and said, Well, well, no. Does your husband is he like that too? Do you do you guys are your boys understanding that also? And I'm like, Yeah, dad.
SPEAKER_00That's was he thinking it was a good thing to believe that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. He was very much like, once I got him to see that there is nothing that will change what Jesus did for us, there's nothing that will change that. It has already happened, it is all done. It is all done and taken care of. And so I don't need to worry about when Jesus is coming back. I don't need to worry about like if I accidentally swear, like, it's not gonna change what Jesus already did for me at the cross. Do I want to swear? No. Should I still have educated speech? Absolutely. Do I still need to be kind? Yes. But that comes from walking out the identity of who we are.
SPEAKER_00Let me ask you this question as as we wrap this up. You said in October that you're gonna have a memorial for for your mom. Yeah. And I love what you've been saying, that there's nothing that can change. And sometimes, like we think of time, the time changes things. Jesus died 2,000 years ago. Yeah, we have it now. Right now, you know, we've been talking about this, and I know you have complete assurance. If on that memorial, on that day where you're having that memorial, you're emotional and you're crying, you right now, who is not as emotional as you probably will be on that day. What would you tell to that Krista in the future? Put your arm around her and say, Hey girl, would you just cry with her? Would you just say you're you're alright? What would you do? That's what I would do.
SPEAKER_04I would I would probably just cry with her and say, Don't forget, don't forget the fundamental, the actual fundamental.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. You're you're a testimony. Um, you've always been in the background kind of being super encouraging. And I I remember we had this talk about the church politics when we were in Rapid, and I was trying to be like, yeah, none of this matters. Like, these poor people, they're the ones struggling. You are you do not need to struggle, you know who you are. And I I see you going for that. Um obviously I love you and your husband, and I think I think you guys are navigating not only hard things personally, but hard like I see you navigating life with just kind of grace and a beautiful testimony. And so um I appreciate you and uh your family, and while while you may be mourning for a little bit, we it's never gonna be the same. And yet and yet we're good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, and I think there's you know, there's times where I'm super sad and the emotions need to need to come out, right? Like the tears come and and that's and that's okay. And there are times where the anger comes, like mercy. Last July, there were some times in the hospital where I was like not I was so mad, so mad. And uh, and there have been times where I have been talking with Josh and I find myself getting as we're like learning these things, and he is telling me about all these other things, and I can tell that he's like super passionate about it and super, and I feel like he's he's in invested emotionally into it and and maybe just a little angry or bitter about it all. And I just want him to realize that ultimately it doesn't matter as long as you come back to that fundamental, right? And so then I'm angry at that, but then you remind me of my wife.
SPEAKER_00I was sitting in the passenger seat, I don't know how long ago, and I was steaming mad, and she's like, Why are you mad? And I I was literally mad about the great disappointment. I was like, These people were lied to, like they gave their lives up, like their lives were destroyed, and we're just like, Oh, it's just a part of our history. And I'm like, literally, like it destroyed people's lives based on these lies. And Natalie was like, she didn't even know what to say to me, and I'm just like emotional about this thing that I'm like, I'm frustrated that it happened.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I'm so you can tell he's really upset about it, and then I'm upset that he's upset about it, and then I'm like, wait a minute,
Grief Space On The Night She Died
SPEAKER_04hold the phone. You you get to you get it's okay. The night mom died, so she ended up passing away at about 12 40 in the morning at about 12 40. That was her time with her, and um, she rich ended up coming over that night. And he stayed with us all night until the cremation society came and got her at about 4:30 or 5. And Sandy and I were standing on the porch as they were loading mom's body into the back of the van. And dad was there taking pictures, like dad does. He has a cell phone out, he's taken pictures of the gurney in the back of the van. And he's done this like the whole time. Like, he'll send out these texts to the entire community. And um, and so we're in the hospital and he's usually texting people, updating people about what's happening in our lives. And we're like, Can you just be here? Like, just put the phone down. And then, so as Sandy and I are like, Can you just be here? We're just getting ready to think that Pastor Rich steps up next to us. And of course, we're all about 48 hours with no sleep. He steps up right next to us and says, It's okay. Like before I could formulate the frustrated thought, Pastor Rich was like, It's okay. I did the exact same thing with my mom two months ago when she passed. And and he just what he said was it's okay, gave me the space to not have to respond. Like, I don't have to create a judgment onto my father as he is photographed, as my son says it. I want to look at the photography G. Photography? That's what he said. Photography. As my dad is photographing the whole event, and I I don't have to create judgment on that. I can just let him be, and that's okay. And there is space for it all.
SPEAKER_00This is how your dad is regulating his emotions and being okay. He's doing what he's done his whole life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And you think you're actually mad at your dad, but in truth, is you're heartbroken of what is just happening.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely, and so is he, and this is how he's handling it, and this is how I'm handling it, and and that's okay.
SPEAKER_00That's okay.
SPEAKER_04And that's okay.
SPEAKER_00You know, when you say Pastor Rich showed up, I think I just praise the Lord for people like Pastor Rich. He had this sermon. I don't remember a lot of sermons. At this point in my life, I've heard quite a few of them, but this sermon sticks out to
Wanting Heaven And Wanting More Time
SPEAKER_00me. And he preached about Jesus' second coming and if he wanted Jesus to come back, like right now. And what he said was amazing. And I'm thinking about it, and I'm sure, you know, as a loved one pastor, like, Jesus come back now. Yeah. But then as we think about it a little further, you know, forever is forever. Eternity is eternity, and we're like, we want it to start now, but also on this side of eternity, like there are certain opportunities that we're not going to have on the other side of eternity. And I'm not talking about when you're a little kid and you want to get married so you can have sex before Jesus comes. I'm not talking about that. Right. I'm talking about being able to minister the reconciliation to people, people that don't know, people that don't believe. And that's what Pastor Rich said. He said, I I don't want him to come back yet. While I'm holding in one hand the all you know the pain and the suffering and all these things, I want more chances to talk to people about Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I thought, that's it right there. Praise the Lord. I mean, we got forever. We might as well while we're here. And so, like, my brother texts me, he's like, Do you want Jesus to come back? And yeah, I want Jesus to come back, but also not yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I've had sex, I've got so it's not about that. It's I want the opportunity to preach to more people about how much God loves them.
SPEAKER_04When we were doing the wave one that one time, there was a girl who who got it, and you like you had her, it was in one of the after parties. What are they called? After parties. That's right. I was like, it's not after glow, it's the after party. And he she you just kept asking her about what that means, and you could tell she believed it, and tears are streaming down her face, and tears are streaming down my face, and I'm just yelling at her from my muted computer, saying, Yes, sister, that's it. That's it. When it's that moment of understanding what Jesus did for us. That's beautiful. And you want more people to understand that?
SPEAKER_00Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.
SPEAKER_04Look at that, Rich. You made me cry.
SPEAKER_00I didn't make you cry. I didn't make you cry. You know what makes me cry? And I don't know how it's gonna work, right? Yeah. I but I have a certain belief. And right now I'm just gonna go with this belief. That uh when the trumpet sounds, and the dead who were in Christ rise from the dead, like rise up, it's probably gonna be both you and me too, unless he comes back then the next, you know, we're getting a little older.
SPEAKER_01Got right?
SPEAKER_00But what makes me is that we're gonna be up in there and we're gonna be catching up with our loved ones. Yeah. And to see, um, to see that scene is gonna be amazing. Because of course you're gonna want to see your mom. And most likely your kids are gonna want to see you, and it's gonna be like, I haven't seen you, I haven't seen her, and I haven't seen you. And it's just gonna be like like that. Like, if you want to get me crying, play no more night, play no more night, and the the the whatever his name is, I forget the guy who sings it, who this is amazing, where he sings that song, and you think about all of this will be over, and some parts of me, like I said, some days I'm just like, I'm tired, like I'm tired, I'm tired, I'm tired, and I just want him back now, and then like you and your sister, then then the next day I'm like, No, I can do it. We can go on a little more, we can go on a little more. I don't need him to come back just yet, and uh that keeps me going.
SPEAKER_03I don't need him, but he's here, he's here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Krista. Yeah, appreciate you.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, Rich. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.