Ep 125: Final Fantasy 7 (Part 7) - Memories and Moments

More than the pillars of Cloud, Sephiroth, and Aerith, Final Fantasy 7 is filled to the brim with memorable moments, both big and small. On this week's episode, we discuss everything from dens of ill repute to epic slap fests in our attempt to paint the broadest FF7 picture in podcast history.  Thanks for listening!

STARRING (All handles from Twitter)

Eddie Varnell (@thatretrocode) of the Boss Rush Network (@BossRushNetwork)
Greg Sewart of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 (@sewart)
Kyle of the RPG Show (@TheRPGPodcast)
John Trenbeath (@crazyjohnt) 
Julian Titus (@julian_titus) of The Stage Select Podcast (@StageSelectPod)
Matt (@dj_stormageddon) and Geoff (@geoffmakesnoise) of the "Fun" & Games Podcast (@funandgamespod)
Mekel Kasanova (@MekelKasanova)
Mike of the Distorted Illuminations YouTube channel (@MadMonarch_DI) 
The Lets Play Princess (@TheLPPrincess) 
Ryan aka @GameswCoffee

SONG COVERS

Rufus's Welcoming Ceremony (Final Fantasy VII) | Classical Guitar Cover by John Oeth Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqMWde3UFls

Shinra, Inc. (Final Fantasy VII) | Classical Guitar Cover by John Oeth Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtwdj5626U0

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Transcript

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you In a game that spans over 80 hours of gameplay, there's bound to be a moment or two that sticks in the brain, and we've already discussed our fair share of them. This week, we center our discussion on the moments that stuck with us, both big and small, and see how they stack up to make Final Fantasy VII an adventure for the ages. Time to grab our favorite chocobo, line them up at the starting gate, and do ourselves some awkward 32-bit racing as we embark upon Final Fantasy VII Part VII Memories and Moments. Starting us off with some introductory thoughts is the one and only Greg Seward of the Player One podcast and Generation 16 series of YouTube videos, followed by a moment of true discovery with Julian Titus of the Stage Select podcast and Kyle of the RPG show. So yeah, large moments and small moments. Obviously, Final Fantasy 7 is this huge game. do you remember any of the, I like focusing on small moments as you know, because those are the ones that we don't talk about too much and we can talk about. Eirith getting stabbed and we're talk about the plate falling from Midgar, like these big set pieces. I'd like to first focus on those smaller moments though, because there's a lot of them in this game and there's a lot of grace notes. The way I'm trying to describe, I've come to describe the story of Final Fantasy VII is if Final Fantasy VI and previous were these kind of straight lines with branching paths that would then connect back to each other, I feel like VII is this one... column of all these tightly woven, interconnected and somewhat confusing narratives. It's leading. It's like a column of stories. It's like the have you seen the second season of Loki? The second the loom. It's like the loom. It's like it's like a loom of just like stuff. It's all the strands of time are interwoven into this big. Cylinder of story. It's still one thing, but it's got all these webs in it. I mean, think there were were were the touching mo I there were touching moments between Cloud and Tifa, especially in the flashbacks, which I really enjoyed. But I mean, other than that, like, it's funny going looking back at this. mean, I played through I've played through this game maybe twice, but I played through it when it came out. And to me, it was they were the big moments that stuck with me and So much of the game, so much of my memory of the game is locked in Midgard. The way that whole first section is done, I mean, I even enjoyed like the train ride back after the first mission. Just little things like that. going through the town when they're kind of all trying to split up so they can get back to the train after that first mission when you first meet Eris or Aerith. But none of them really jump out at me. I do think that story wise, the ability to do multiple discs and the amount of storage space they had on it really let them let their story ideas breathe more than we were used to. But I think it's interesting because I think the bigger story beats, even though they were breathing, it didn't allow for those little ones to hit as hard as they did. Because again, I asked this question for months now with all the SNES and the NES games. and everyone can pick out these little moments of like, the moment when you play Pretty Woman with Gao or this small moment. I think the big bombastic nature of the CGI and the graphical fidelity, I feel like blanks out all of those grace notes. So when I do watch a video of Final Fantasy VII storylines, I always forget Hojo's a character. I forget. Hojo is really the big, bad at this game. Sephiroth is again, just another creation of something that wants something that, you know, he's a creation. Hojo is like the evil mastermind. And I forget he's even in the game. Like Rufus is in the game a ton. And I have to watch a video on YouTube to remember he existed. And I'm like, wow, he's important. So it's really interesting that when people talk about Final Fantasy 7, it's usually around Cloud and Sephiroth and Tifa and Aerith. Not many people go in the bathroom for you fee or Kate Sith, you know, like it's all the little grace notes that are there. If you really dig it and really dive in there there, but they're obscured by this just giant bombastic thing. And I think that's when it became Final Fantasy became more of those events style games. They think continued on and continued to continue on as the series progressed. Yeah, I think you're probably right. mean, I guess that's a that goes sort of part and parcel what we're saying about like the the artistry being ramped up, the CGI being used, you know, how it was much more multimedia. Yeah. Experience. It's really, I think, comparable to, you know, going talking about an arthouse film and a blockbuster. Yeah. Because, yeah, Final Fantasy seven was their blockbuster. And it's what Final Fantasy became from that point on. Yes. and it hadn't really been that way before that. Yeah, you're right. was building towards that. was always getting to... was building towards that. But with the new hardware, like you said, and the new ability to really just say, we're going to have three discs and we're just going to make the biggest thing we can. There's lots of fun things in Final Fantasy 7, though. I was amazed as I was going through some of my research, refreshing myself, all the little emerging gameplay stuff there is in that game. There are so many opportunities to, I don't know, have a slap fight with this person or, you know, all the stuff that happens at the Honey Bee Inn and all these like little time segments and snowboarding and not even just mini games, but like mini events almost to a certain extent. I was surprised how much of that is in this game. Yeah, I mean, when you think back on it, like you said, the snowboarding, the thing that really stands out to me is actually the motorcycle section. as well at the end of Midgard too, which again, you hadn't seen in Final Fantasy. I think you're right. The Final Fantasy games on the Super Nintendo were aspirational. They were trying to do that stuff, but they were really locked in by the amount of space they had and what the system was capable of doing. I was even thinking too, I remember the first time getting out into the actual world, because so much of that game does take place in Midgard. You're really never, for a long time, you're never in an overworld. You are moving from one rendered scene to another. And sometimes an animated scene to another, but you never ever sort of get the like, here it is. And you finally leave Midgard for the first time and you have this big open world in front of you, which isn't weird for a role playing game. But the difference being is that it was a big 3D world that you could see a horizon on. We hadn't had that before. Squared tried to do it with using mode seven and tilting the world, and that was very effective in the early 90s. But this time, I remember, what are they called, the weapons? Remember there was these big lumbering? I remember one in particular, this big lumbering thing that just walked around the world, and I'm sure it was constrained into some spot, but I seeing that for the first time in the overworld and being like, oh my God, what's that? You know, so it definitely lent itself to, gave you a sense of scale of the world. You weren't locked into this little four by three screen that would scroll endlessly, but it's still, the world didn't feel nearly as big as it did when you stepped out into the overworld in Final Fantasy VII, which I think was a big moment for the series that, there you go, a moment that think a lot of people would forget, but I remember it having an impact on me. But I also remember it, because I was so fully invested in the sort of the steampunk slash like Blade Runner style that we were seeing in Midgard that I have to say, I remember being disappointed when I stepped out in a way too, because it was the sort of this green lush world and it's like, well, this isn't what I've been, this isn't the setting I've fallen in love with over the last four or five hours. That's very interesting. got over it pretty fast, but I still, you know, I kind of loved where we were going with the Midgard setting up until that point. Yeah, it is a huge shift when you get out to the open world and you realize, it's actually green and it's not all metal and slums and dirt and grime. It's actually, hey, this kind of feels like a Final Fantasy game again. Exactly. I just feel, and there's a small town I can go to. cool. I remember this now. It's been 10 hours, but I remember this now. time to start grinding. Yeah, and I can also see how that would be surprising for somebody who doesn't know the games well, too. I'm curious how people felt about it who had never played a Final Fantasy game before. Maybe their reaction was the opposite. Like, what's this? Why? Why is the music softer? And where's my cool steampunk? You know, right. Fantasyland. This is weird. Right. Very interesting sea change moment for the series where it's a very interesting moment. And again, I think depending on who you talk to, I think It changed for better and for worse in some aspects. also talk a bit about memorable moments. You know, I always do that on the show, so I figured why not why not mess with the good thing. What are some of those big moments that you resonate with you and some little moments? Because I always love talking about the smaller beats in games because you know, we everyone's going to talk about the Aerith scene and how they cried and that's that's that's a thing that was shocking to me even even as a know, Lee 20 and something playing it on my PS3. What are some of those big and small moments that you remember fondly? I mean, I've talked about the intro like that was definitely a big thing. yeah, because I and I had played through that like so many times in the demo, right? Because that was how I first played Final Fantasy seven was the demo that came with Tobol number one. So that was obviously like the first like really big thing. But I think the thing that sticks out even more than that for me, thinking back to like the initial playthrough was leaving Midgar for the first time, because it does a really great job of tricking you into thinking that this is the game. that you were just going to be in this massive city, which would have been fine, I think, at that time and almost understandable. And then, no, you get out and you hear the overworld music for the first time. And, you know, your character is so small on the screen, just like it was in Final Fantasy four and six. all of a sudden you're hit with like the enormity of the the world, like what it actually is and how, you know, even with like the 97 PlayStation graphics. they do a great job of illustrating just how dingy Midgar is. Like it is shrouded in gloom. And then the moment that you take a few steps away from it towards Calm, everything is brighter and everything is green. And it's like, and you don't realize that that's what you were missing until you realize that it's there. And then you're like, I needed this. And then you get to a traditional Final Fantasy village in Calm. And it's like, Yeah, no, this feels good. I liked that industrial sci-fi element of Midgar and that's a really cool thing. But it's nice that this is here was very comforting. And so that was definitely like a huge moment for me. What are some standout moments for you? But initially when you're talking to everybody, when you're searching through everything, fighting a thousand battles, you're spending 20 some hours in Midgar and then there's a whole other world outside of it that you have to go explore. So I think seeing that for the first time was just, know, whoa, I couldn't believe that was happening. I'd say being that young at the time, the Midgar Zolam, that was pretty memorable. You know, like, holy crap, this is... This boss is different, you know, I've seen some bosses in games that will steal the princess or, you know, like run a helicopter through a city, but not a guy who's putting a 30 foot snake on a pike. That's new. That's unique. That's unique. Exactly. To say Final Fantasy VII is full of high drama may be the understatement of the century, but it all doesn't have to be these huge standout moments. To talk about some of the game's more concisely dramatic moments is the less played princess of Nerds of Broadcast, followed by content creator Mikhail Kassanova, and then Eddie Varnell joins the show, and then Eddie Varnell of the Boss Rush Network joins the show. So what about Final Fantasy 7? Obviously, you said it graphically, it was incredibly impressive. Even back in 2001, it was still probably considered, you know, pretty impressive, even though that's, you know, five years after or four years after it was released. I still think parts of that game look fantastic. I agree. I think that's the thing. don't judge graphics based off of modern specs. I will always base graphics upon what it was like at the time and also for modern games like Crow Country, does it do well with what they're trying to emulate? Yeah, and I think it's interesting because I think the art design is actually really, really cool. And again, I've been rewatching a lot of YouTube videos on just, again, refreshing myself on the story. And some of that stuff is really, really awesome. Were there any moments in Final Fantasy 7 that you remember really just... hitting it over the head like, whoa, this is incredible or impactful? The date. The date. Aw, the date. How did your date go? The first time with Aerith. Oh, yeah. And interrupted by fireworks has not only become my favorite or one of my two favorite songs from Final Fantasy VII, it's kind of replaced her theme as her theme. Oh, interesting. That's interesting. Yeah, that's cool. I can totally see that. That is cool. So the first time it was Aerith, what about the second time? Probably Tifa. Probably Tifa, yeah. That's fair. That's interesting. In the battle between Aerith and Tifa, whose side are you on? Because I know that's a big thing in that's mean. I know. You're going be called Chocobo Bill for the rest of this episode. I know that's a big I I don't have a huge opinion on it again. I played it in 13 years ago I was like, this is fine. So I don't have the connection that a lot of people have So just curious if you have that if you or if not, that's which is fine, too I was an eroth person but I know that the the cannon is Tifa because even the movie pretty much states Hey, it's Tifa. Yeah That's fair. That's fair. I know Tifa has a lot more role to play, although Eirith is extremely important. That's how we get Holy and that's how you can beat the final final. She even has a level four and an ultimate weapon and a weapon that's better than her ultimate weapon, which is 100 % easier to get. Not that you'll see any of this. No, exactly not that any of this will be visible or playable for you. Yeah, any other moments that you remember really fondly about Final Fantasy 7? Again, it's Huge game. I know there's a lot to comb through. I love Cosmokaneon's theme. That's my second favorite theme from that game. That's a great theme. I love the fact that even at the beginning we can kind tell that Hojo is... Well Sephiroth is the main villain of the base game of Final Fantasy VII. Hojo is in technicality the main villain of the entire Final Fantasy VII sub-franchise. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think because he is a catalyst for all of this. He does that. He does Genesis and Angelo. He possesses Weiss, which is like the whole point of Dirge of Cerberus. He is behind so many different subplans and he's a mad scientist. What isn't there to love? Yeah, it's science without any thought of whether or not you should do things. Hey, should I inject myself with... with the Genova cells, should I? I don't know. Let's give it a shot. Why not? it. Whatever. What happens? Oh, I become a tactical monster. This is great. Time to save my son. Time to shoot a giant laser that's being powered by a city. The story of Final Fantasy 7 is really is actually very interesting. actually, I finished watching a video yesterday about that kind of goes through chronologically. the story and it spans a huge amount of time in just the base game. They're not even bringing up the all the other games and rebirth and Oh you have the what is it 2000 years ago? Genova lands, which is kind of terrifying. Oh my god, there's probably more of them out there. Yeah, yeah, that was it Yeah. Yeah. We have the cetera we have the key which actually do get explained in rebirth what they are and actually explains where the black material comes from, which is really interesting. You have got one of the best pieces that they better not take out of part three. Tifa and Scarlet's little slap fight on top of the sister, right? I was thinking about a lot of the aspects of that. That's a very funny. That moment is so strange. And there's a lot of really interesting moments in Final Fantasy seven where the gameplay switches up, where you do silly things like that. There's a lot of that in Final Fantasy 7. I forgot. Do you want an escape room? Do you want a snowboarding simulator? Sure. It's fun. Snowboarding is fun. I remember having a lot of fun snowboarding. Yeah, slap fights and you can dress up in a brothel or... Claudia is great. How dare you? I didn't say anything. I didn't say... Not great at all. Somebody out there did. Claudia is wonderful, everybody. Claudia. Yeah, it's fantastic. But I just forgot how much of these little interactive beats there are that break up the gameplay in Devon's Man's Seven. There are so many of them, which is really cool. We never needed a battle with Dine and Barret, but we got it. And it definitely helps with this character development. There are a lot of little... mini stories layered throughout. Like, let's be honest, the plotline with the huge materia kind of goes nowhere. It's just a side quest that at the end of the day didn't do anything. Like, it's a plan that failed, but it also gives Cid a closure about one of the biggest goals in his life. He always wanted to go to space. Right. Right. It's the stories in Final Fantasy VII. are much more, I would say, intertwined than I would say previous entries where you have like your main quest and then your side quest. the story of Final Fantasy VII is very just mixed and integrated with everything. It's very interesting the way they've set that game up where they all kind of, everything kind of converges. So even like you said, the huge materia, it doesn't really have a huge payoff because it doesn't work, but it leads to something else. So yeah, what else about Final Fantasy VII? Did you want to talk about because it's again a huge games hard to encapsulate everything in an hour But I'm obviously doing a lot of interviews, so I just want to really focus in on the stuff that you found personally impactful Well, then I kind of want to go back to interrupted by fireworks Okay, go for it because like I said that song definitely feels more like heiress theme Than heiress theanthemy and that was the first time that music had story to it in my eyes without the use of lyrics because that song starts very high Not high-pitched notes, but you know that the higher range of notes those those higher ease and everything. Yep And it's just this lovely piano playing and then a second piano kind of joins in and you're on this really nice date with Whoever you got Tifa, Aerith, Barret, who cares? Yep But then about the 75 % to 80 % mark of that song becomes very somber. And when I heard that the first time ever, because again, being well-read and everything, I went, oh, this can't last forever. It's it really is a bittersweet song where it reminds you by the end. Hey, we do have to go and Maybe things won't be okay for a little bit. You know, we've hit this little somber mark But it will get better in the end It really feels like musical foreshadowing for the big event of the game which is Arista. That's a really interesting way of putting that because you're right, it does conclude with something that's more somber and it does seem to match that vibe, right? That kind of theme of eventually the party has to end and eventually the good times can't be forever. scene I would say I think Oh this is gonna be hot water okay go on you guys can find me I'm on all social media at McKellar Castanova come on bring bring the smoke I'm at the fire you know bring some meat we're going barbecue we're gonna move some furniture up in here the scene with Dine and Barrett and we learn more about Marmite and that I think that was masterfully done there and was a debacle in rebirth. Interesting. Okay. I haven't played rebirth yet. So I'm curious what they're where they were the differences lie. the scene with dying and, and, and, uh, buried. Right. Do you mind about, you know, my, yeah, go for it. Yeah. Go for it. Go for me. So, so you remember how like dying took his own life and basically he's so mentally broken. You know, he, just, there's no redeeming at that point. He's done so many, like he literally the, the, the duality of diet and buried are two people who are at the polar up there at the polar ends of the spectrum. Yep. You know what happened one traumatic event and where that leaves them. The way it's done in rebirth. Dying doesn't really take its own life in the sense he's gunned down by shimmy. And I like really? Yeah. And the fact that they right after that have a goofy scene. I'm like, it took so much of the the atmosphere. from that. And it's like I get it. Alternate continuation timeline. Sure. But it's like that was once that that was a scene and an area that really just stuck with me because it gave so much depth to Barrett. It gave you an understanding of why he is the hard ass that he is. Yeah. Yep. And I I guess going back to the original, I wanted more with Barry and they really that was the end of his arc. That was it. You're right. That's basically that's basically it. Yeah, that's that's kind of where it leaves it. Yeah, man, rebirth is. I have a lot of feelings about that game. I know there are people that. It's all good. I'm looking I'm looking at some moments of that scene as I as as you're talking. And I think one of the lines is he says, these dine says these hands are a little too stained to carry Marlene anymore. Like that is a, that is, yeah. That's heavy, heavy, especially as a bear reply and bear replies. My hands ain't any cleaner. Like that's right. Yeah. It's like it hits harder as a parent now to be able to understand like that dynamic. of the in the weight of those lines. And it's like, I remember talking to I know a lot of the the YouTube essays, theory, fall fancy folks and 99 % them are not parents. So that when they talk to me about that, that scene, and they talk about all this so much better and rebirth, I'm just like, Yeah, but you're not a parent. So you don't understand the gravity. Yeah, it's way, it hits way different. Yeah, totally. Totally. No, there's no question. It's just... And that's actually, I think, something people... can't have that connection unless you are a parent. And not to say that people can't have that kind of empathy. I'm not saying that, obviously. It's just gonna taste different. When you self-insert into that, it's just gonna taste different. There's nothing... And again, that's not knocking people who don't have that feeling towards it who don't have that experience, but... Yeah. No, that's a tough, tough- Are there any other I always like highlighting small moments in games, you know, can we talk about the big moments? sorry Where's a small moments of Final Fantasy 7 that remember just hitting you a certain way? Tifa is Scarlett's that fight. I love that is so wild Final Fantasy because Tifa was just like you trick Scarlett smacked Scarlett's like smecter and I'm just like Y'all smacking each other on the can and then hearing it in from the PlayStation, it was just like... And going back and forth and it was just like, you got to play that as a mini-game. And it was just so amazing because they're just like, Tifa, you should have knocked the mess out of her. But they were just like, you know, you guys are going to slap each other until a cut scene happens. That's wild. That's so funny. It was it's so good. I'm definitely the chocobo's I love Barrett's you know his daughter just like that that story like even though Barrett was Just this rough-and-tuff hard-pressed kind of guy you really grew to him throughout the game and stuff because like Even though him a cloud didn't kind of get along they they had a level of respect there and even at the end, you know cloud and Barrett really understood each other and stayed with each other like I I literally use Barrett I would say 97 % of the game like he was in my party him him Arif and Tifa were like literally 97 % of the game like once I lost Arif it was It was just buried in teeth in the cloud. It is time once again to say thank you, thank you, thank you to our fantastic and sensational patrons. Starting off with Seth Sergel of the All N Media Network, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Tim Knowles, formerly of the Lidist, BT Gobbles, the Let's Play Princess, Games with Coffee, the aforementioned Greg Seward, Terry Kinnair, Joey Coro, Philip Becker, Lindsay Harney, and the one and only editor extraordinaire, Pete Harney. If you'd like to join these sensational human beings then mosey on over to patreon.com forward slash a gamer looks at 40 check out the tiers and sign up today. And if not a free way to support the show is give us a quick rating or review on your pod player of choice. Let's rejoin the episode. Continuing our conversation about former Turks genre shifts in a particular den of ill repute that seared itself into our adolescent brains is Matt and Jeff of the fun and games podcast followed by the one and only games with coffee. I'd like to pivot a little bit to moments in the game. Obviously the game is full of huge moments. I'd love to hear about some of even the smaller moments that impacted you and you played it like the Because again, like I said before, feel like Final Fantasy 7 is this big blockbuster made by a really good indie director that there's all this cool stuff in there, but sometimes it gets hidden by the explosions and the Shinra reactors and also the maker reactor. So what's the, what are some like moments that you remember really hitting you hard or just really impacting you? mean, I think one of the first ones for me, I mean, there's the moment, right? Which I'm trying to. We can talk about, you talk about the moment, I mean, it's almost impossible to talk about this game without discussing it, so we want to just go there, yeah. I mean, it was probably the first cross-dressing side quest that I'd ever played in a video game. Are we not? Oh, right, yeah. The other one, the other one. Oh, oh, I mean, she was involved. So, also, it's funny you mentioned the Don Canario stuff, like, or Con-Hario, what the hell is? Corneo, thank you. Don Corneo. Like, the scene where Cloud, Tifa, and... Arath threatened him and what they're do to his member is just like that's a memorable moment because I just hadn't heard it's just so foul and and and and awesome and like was just and like the the love letter to that scene and that area in the remake I think is one of my favorite moments in gaming clouds reaction. Yes. I know I nailed it moving on like they don't make like it's just The original one in seven could be considered kind of homophobic in some of the depictions and what's shown I think I would give it a fair for its day rating But that's yeah personally and I'm not making that a bold declaration But yeah playing it in the remake was beautiful and that actually that gave me some yes more than So Matt you mentioned some smaller moments though that you that you want to highlight so I'd love to hear that I mean first has to do with my boyfriend and my favorite character in the game, which is Vincent Valentine Jeff is not surprised in the slightest. When you first meet him in the Shinra Mansion and he rises out of the casket, I was just like, who is that? But also, who is that? He's so cool, he's got a gauntlet arm and he's holding a gun. Barrett has a The only sensible weapon in Final Fantasy VII for your party. Pretty Everybody's got a damaging weapon in some way, which is better than some Final Fantasy parties. But in a world like Final Fantasy 7 where there is the cyberpunk city only one person just carries a side arm And and he's the corpse he's the corpse but like when you first fight him and he transforms and then he eventually joins you and like His limit breaks transform him into stuff like I just I thought he was so cool like and to this day He's he's so cool like he's just the coolest character and like his mammar sir does such a killer job as him Yeah, like I love Stephen Blooms performance. I identified I'm a fan of Stephen Bloom and his performance in Advent Children is really great but there's something about Matt Mercer's nuance in Rebirth and how he's paying homage to Stephen Bloom also because they're peers like It's just incredible. But like I just I really love that moment like it's so gothic right in this game that's been like tech and and cyberpunk and then you're just in this mansion and it becomes basically a horror movie Like a scene out of Resident Evil and it's just it's so cool. I really love it So that's probably one of my more memorable like smaller moments or character moments for sure Yeah, and I love it's funny. Yeah, sorry. I'm gonna just want to come in real quick about Matt I also love what they do with his because again, he's an optional character like you don't have to run into Vincent, right? But I love what they do with his it. This is mom. Yeah, like it's his mother I think it's worth no Lucretia Lucretia. Yeah, no, that's that's Sephiroth's mother. That's Vincent's erstwhile life that's okay, right? Thank you But yeah, they do a lot of cool stuff with this character too Like they do a lot of really cool of things with that. So go ahead Jeff. You're gonna you're gonna comment I mean, he's also a guy He's also a character worth the pieces are there and things are put together and if you talk to him early on there's almost like a oh cool There's some answers. Well, that's But the really cool thing is yeah, like you said Matt the game kind of goes a little horror for a second It started off cyberpunk. There's some fantasy there Final Fantasy 7 I think more than any other Final Fantasy, does a good job of, hey kids, follow me. Suddenly we're this genre for a little while. And you just kinda go, yeah man, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, cool. We're in Atlantic City now for a while and just playing arcade games. That's fine, cool. Before that we're dealing with the despondency of basically Walmart coming into town and setting everything on fire. that's cool. You you have horror you have beach vacation you have chocobo racing you have All sorts of just different genre shifts that go on and just go yeah, man sure can these all coexist why not right why not yeah, no totally I Was really struck how much how much of those things are in this game I completely forgot all these little side events and I even like minigames Like mini events almost like you're snowboarding and you're slap fest which is the motorcycle combat The motor best is the ones the one mini game that I go. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I Didn't say anything when Aerith's holy materia bounced perfectly on every step I don't care about the music the music's music It's non-diegetic, but it kept changing trajectory just to do that That's fine if we want to play with all kinds of physics how we can jump so high whatever else Tifa Losing a slap fight to Scarlet. Doesn't make sense. In no way, shape or form, or condition. Tifa couldn't lose a slap fight to proud Claude. Let alone Scarlet. But that's fine. That's fine. No amount of suspension of disbelief will allow that to be an actual thing we can ingest, right? Do not do, do not do my girl, my friend, like that. Do not do Tifa dirty that way. No, you can't do it, you can't do No. Do not. There's lots of big spectacle in that game, but there's also a lot of small moments that are really fun and interesting. I'd love to hear what some of the smaller moments that you remember really impacting you. And again, it could be as a kid or even now when you play it, because you still I mean, I'm sure you've played this game dozens and dozens and dozens of times. Probably I'm probably nearing about 3032. Wow. OK, that's awesome. Across like various platforms. I have this game on like. pretty much every platform you can think of so yeah it's on everything yeah yeah so yeah yeah little moments yeah let's go the first one is the the cross dressing sequence that's the biggest one that's the biggest little moment in the game probably but you're right a little moment it's just it's just i mean cloud cross dressing as a weapon to save his to save his childhood friend and eroth was the one who put it up to it it's like you're doing this It's like, no, I'm not. Yes, you are. now I'm like, I'm in a dress. It's really funny. Another another really great moment, actually another small moment was the was the first flashback sequence with Cloud and Tifa and the promise they made back in Nibelheim when they were just under 13 hitting like going on 14, which is insane when you think about it. You know, you're 14 years old, you're leaving your hometown to go to this big city to find a job. In Cloud's case, he's going to join as a... he's going to join their army, their military, in hopes of becoming a soldier. You stop... you don't really realize it, you stop to realize that they're hiring... they're basically hiring child soldiers to do their dirty work. Like Shinra, I'm talking about. Shinra hires child soldiers. That's wild, you're right. Yeah. Dang, I never thought of that. Yeah, I know, like... Yeah, like Cloud was 16 years old during the Niebelheim sequence. He was a teenager holding a rifle wearing like infantry gear. That's wow. It's heavy. It is pretty heavy. You're 100 percent right. That is extremely heavy. Yeah, I never thought of it that way. That's that's a very interesting point for sure. Yeah, man. Any other? Yeah, go ahead. I'm And like other moments, too. She's back story with said about how she inadvertently ruined his dream of going into space. Like you can just let her. You can just let her die despite no matter how much tough talking he does. He has a soft spot for share and he didn't want her. He didn't want her blood on his hands. So I boarded the launch but now he turned into this grouchy sour puss that really wanted his dream to be fulfilled. Yuffie and her father and the relationship with each other. That was also an interesting, like there's lots of small little moments because Seven, what's beautiful about Seven is that it took the losses that you feel in Six during the World of Rune and they make them more personable, personal and personable, right? Everyone in that game experiences a personal loss in their character arc. And it's my view that the gang, they don't just journey around the world just to stop Sephiroth, but they actually do it to confront their losses and work through them. Right? That's an awesome point. Yeah, like for instance, Red 13, like he hates his dad. He hated his dad more than anything. But the thing is he didn't understand. He didn't know or understand the truth until you go through the cave of the Gi and you go all the way to the end and you see that his father's like, Petrified by multiple spheres entering his body stood there as a silent guardian To prevent them from entering entering Cosmo Canyon and once once red sees that he's like, okay Well, I just have my I just have my mind blown. I thought my father was a coward But he really was the one who saved the village after all that Right. It's it's it's things like that that makes seven just so memorable in my eyes just There's so much. There's so much. Finishing out the episode with a grab bag of moments, both large and small and everything in between is John Trendeth of the B. Cron's Foundation, followed by more thoughts from Mikhail Kassanova, then Mike of the Distorted Illuminations YouTube channel adds his recollections, and finally Julian of Stay Select returns with some closing thoughts. Something just hit me in thinking of it being a product of its time. Something else that kind of has a jumping around story, but is considered, you know, I don't know if a masterpiece, but definitely like, oh, you've got to see this movie is pulp fiction with the way the story jumps around. Because if you're not paying attention, it's like, why are we back at the diner? Yep. Like that was the beginning of the movie. Oh, oh, OK. We're oh, we're back at the beginning of the movie. This. Things were told out of order so thinking of that in how it's like well no now we got to get we to play catch-up like you said you've got to go back 2,000 years and Alien mama comes out of the sky and kills the the old guard that was here and the few that survived well, they had magical powers and We can use that as a resource to sell to people Right, that's fair But you know little moment is When you're in Walmart, and you have to dress up cloud to go get So that he can he can maybe get picked by Don Corneo and Of course you're gonna put in the extra time to make of course happen A game of its time yet also ahead of its time. It's like, I know when the remake came out, a lot of people are like, are they really going to put that back in the game? And hell, yeah, they did. I was so happy they did. You know, and yeah, you know, a lot of the little moments, of course, are going to be the Golden Saucer. playing countless hours of snowboarding. So much snowboarding and it's so fun and so good. I love snowboarding in that game. It's great. small moments you remember from from Final Fantasy 7 that that resonate with you or big ones too we can just talk about some of the other big hitters but let's talk about smaller moments because again they're all hidden and yeah it's curious if you have anything else that can really resonated at the time i think the situation between yuffie and her dad go go to i think that was And just like the not getting along aspect, I kind of resonated with that just because like that's similar to my relationship with my dad in many ways where it's like, hey, I want you to do this and blah, blah, you're doing that. Or, you know, like I resonated with that. That was a moment which I feel like, again, it was completely missable. Completely miserable. But like it did a lot to add their character depth to you feed that Honestly speaking, she had none. Her and Vincent really didn't have any unless you did their side quests. They didn't really factor into the main the main overall narrative at the time, given their option, the option status. I will say, said was him and, share share. Yeah. So Sid and Shara. That was a their dynamic. mean, at the time, I was like, why is he so vulgar? You know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and like looking back on it, that didn't age very well. it really didn't. But like the small moments that where they they they tried to tell that story with him and her. about how he really did care about her. He really did love her and her love and devotion to him. I thought when they got around to clearly putting that front and center, I thought it really, really, really touching. know, I just it's just hard to. Separate that from how abusive he was. It's challenge. Yeah, a challenge. And then I think the other thing was like the moment where when you were at, you know, the smaller things when we started picking up on like the Turks with how rude had this big crush on Tifa. And if he played it, he would never attack Tifa. That's right. That's a good point. He would never attack her. And it's like is a small thing that, you know, I started to realize I was like, Tifa is my ace in the ace in the hole. If I take out everyone else, then then and leave really, then she can just demolish him. Yes, like, yeah. And like the fact that they incorporated how he felt about her subtly might I add through the story, but also through the gameplay, I thought was very Very. Yeah, no, I agree with that. think there's a lot. And I think the the the gameplay of Final Fantasy seven two is actually super solid. I was surprised when I was going through my research and kind of recollecting on it. How many little divergent gameplay moments there are in that game? Like where you I would call them like gameplay events, not minigames because there's many games, but things like the famous slap fight or, you know, all the timers that tick down or I have to get through this little time section. All these little events, there's a lot of that in Final Fantasy VII, which is cool. I actually appreciate that. I think it's actually really neat. So what are the thoughts on final? Do you have any big moments of Final Fantasy 7 that you remember fondly? Like obviously it is the big one, the, the biggie. One of the biggest moments in all of the games. It's hard to talk about seven without discussing that. Look, I'm going to think seven. It's not Aerith I think of first. I know everyone's all, oh, she died. Tella died in four and I liked him more than Aerith. But no, it is a great moment. Like. I'm not going to deny how well that was done, even if advertisements spoiled it for everybody. But no, it's the period of time Sid takes over the party. Hmm, interesting. One, because you kind of finally get to see Barrett come to terms with his own fanatical mindset from the beginning parts of the game and really look. I was a terrible leader for Avalanche. I need to kind of step back and realize my own faults here before I screw things up for everybody. I like that realization for him. Yeah, that's actually really cool. It's odd that they would choose Barrett though. Not Barrett, sorry. Odd they choose Sid because he kind of just showed up. there for a little while at that point. Yeah, I guess. It's one of those things I get how because you have to go a process of elimination Barrett steps back because he realizes How screwed up he was to do all that he did right you have? Then if you just start looking at all the other people like yeah, it's it kind of has to be said doesn't it? Kind of does I guess it's a very interesting point based on everyone else's personality. That is a good point But then you get to him going up into the space in the rocket and all that. Again, he was my favorite character for meeting him. And he gets such a great scene and moment there. Now, you do get some really good moments from that for sure. all of the Walmart stuff, you know, going through and trying to get the right outfit for Cloud, which I didn't do because, you know, I barreled through it in a week. So I just kind of did what I thought was right. And, know, it didn't really go all that well, but it was still pretty fun, although pretty dark. Like once you really stop to think about and I knew this at the time, but but, you know, I was also a dumb teenager. like you actually do get to cornet cornet corneo or corneo now as we've learned, when you're, when you're talking to him as, as just the three of you and it's like, no, yeah, this is, this is not, this is not good. This is real bad. This is super dark, but still done in, a, in a relatively humorous way. And, you know, gets, he gets his comeuppance and, and, I mean, I still remember like the, you know, talk or I'll chop it off. You know, talk or I'll smash it. Right. Like, just just like great, you know, great bits of dialogue there. Well, another small part, and this is actually mainly because of the Square Roots podcast is the and it's become a meme now, but the did Sephiroth do this? You know, like that, you can apply that towards so many things. It's a great line. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think like, you know, like The problem is that since I only really played at the one time, not a of stuff has kind of faded away. Another small moment, doesn't make any sense. like, it's so weird, but like fighting Palmer in Rocket Town and then like him doing the nanner nanner and like running away into the battle only to get run over by a truck that comes out of nowhere is such a bizarre thing. My problem with Final Fantasy as it's gone further and further into bleeding edge graphics and realism is that you lose the ability to do dumb stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. You don't have the opportunity for a slap fight anymore. Exactly. That's the silliest thing. That is such a Monty Python moment. It's literally out of a comedy sketch. Yeah, it's the pratfall at the end of a sketch. Yeah, that's a very good point. I was surprised when I was doing my research how many variations of gameplay there is too. There's all sorts of little mini game type things which continues through eight and nine especially and kind of dies off around 10 but all of like the slap fight or the opportunity when you're all these different timed things that you do throughout the game. All the stuff you can do in the Golden Saucer of course which is a real mini game but still. There's a lot of opportunities for other types of gameplay in Seven, which I appreciate. I like, that's actually kind of cool. And they sometimes work, sometimes they don't, as they say. Seven, it started a trend that I have continued to dislike in the series, which is like the mini game as a thing. Yeah. But I prefer, but I like mini, what I call mini events. like, that's a better way putting it. You're right. Mini events. Like the motorcycle escape. Right. Like that was really cool. I think about the the play at the beginning of Final Fantasy nine, I would call it a mini event. I like that. I don't necessarily like, you know, playing the card games or Blitzball or, you know, that type of stuff. Yeah. But there's also largely, you know, you can leave them on their own if you want, which is which I appreciate. But seven, you know, I think there were so many things like that that then it became like, well, no, we we need more. We need more of this with more. And they just kept adding more and more as a series when I was like, no, less guys. And then you get to Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth where it's like, everything's a mini game. There's a side quest where you go to like pluck mushrooms and there's an actual like mini game involved in picking the mushrooms. And I was like, guys, you didn't have to go this hard. You could just press a button and pick up the mushroom. It's fine. I'm thinking I'm thinking of the mini event is exactly what I'm talking about that. I really like all the mini events that are in Final Fantasy. That is the word I will use from now on because that's exactly the mini games themselves. You Golden Saucer. It's fun. That's fine. But all these little divergent moments of different style of gameplay. I was surprised like oh wow this is actually yeah having to wiggle your way out of your bonds when you're playing. Yes. Like little things like that. Absolutely. So you know some of I can definitely do without like I. man, the recitation thing like at Junon, like, you know, I can do without that. I was real bad at pressing the buttons in Unison at the Mako base, you know, so like that type of stuff or the Mako reactor, you know, those types I was like, eh, I can take or leave these, but. But yeah, there are definitely some bangers in there, right? Like the submarine, like you get like a submarine like game in there for a bit when you're having like submarine warfare with, you know, Shinrun. It's like, yeah, this is cool. And I think a big part of it was them kind of flexing on like, look at all the stuff that we can do now. Yeah. Yeah. And they sure did. Yeah. And I definitely appreciate that for sure. Seven down, two or three more to go. Two or three. Depends on how I approach next week's episode. We will see if it all comes over as one or if it gets broken up into two. I don't know yet, but that is the beauty of this podcast. I really don't know week to week how these things are gonna turn out at the end of the day. And I hope you're enjoying the ride because I've really enjoyed taking it with you. If you'd like to check out more of the show, go to a gamer looks at forty dot com. All of my links to social media, including Blue Sky, Tick Tock and even Twitter. Although I am starting to distance myself from that site, it is fast becoming a cesspool. It's really becoming a very gross place to spend any time in. And I'm almost to the point where I don't want to associate with it. So if you haven't joined me on Blue Sky, please do. That's where I do a lot of my posting these days, as well, of course, Tick Tock. Facebook, Instagram, and all the other social medias. Many thanks as always to Kev from the Discord and Pete Harney for their editing prowess. Many thanks again to my patrons for their financial support and thank you for not only listening to A Gamer Looks at 40, but sharing it with your friends, telling others about it. We've had a great steady flow of listeners over the last few months. I'd love to keep that train a-rollin' so please, please, please tell a friend if you enjoy the show. especially if they enjoy Final Fantasy, there's a lot for them to dive into. And until next time, just be kind to yourselves and each other.