Motivation & Disipline

Motivation is a brilliant feeling and a terrible plan. Daniel and I get into why so many people stall in their fitness journey, fat loss, training, and nutrition when they keep waiting to “feel ready”, then blame themselves when the buzz fades. We look at motivation for what it is: a short-lived spike that can get you started, but cannot carry you through weeks of busy work, family stress, and real-life commitments.

We share a simple fogged windscreen story that cuts through the usual online advice. Procrastination is waiting. Motivation is squinting and driving anyway. Discipline is forcing it recklessly. The better move is turning on the defogger: design the situation so the next right step is easier. That idea runs through everything we talk about, from realistic gym schedules to why copying extreme mindsets (including misreading David Goggins) can push you into burn-out, resentment, or an identity that needs constant hype just to function.

We also dig into identity-based habits and behaviour change. If you become the person who shows up, your routine stops depending on willpower. If you shape your environment, nutrition gets easier without daily battles. Expect practical, plain-language insights on habit building, systems, routines, and reducing friction so you can keep moving even when motivation is nowhere to be found.

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Transcript

Welcome To Gen Pop

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, you're listening to the Gen Pop Podcast with me, your host, Larry Doyle. Each week, I'm gonna bring in friends, guests, and experts to help enhance your health, fitness, and wellness journeys. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversations.

Why Motivation Fails

SPEAKER_03 0:20

You are welcome back to another episode of the Gen Pop Podcast. This week, co-host Daniel and I, we are gonna talk about motivation. We're gonna get all goggins on your ass, and we're gonna start telling you that you need to get out and get after it and kick ass and that you need to be motivated all the time. Daniel, are you motivated?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Uh who knows? I think motivation is something that's very fleeting. It kind of comes and goes, and I think uh like again, we're gonna have to deal with clients on a weekly basis who say, like, oh, motivation wasn't too high this week, or they'll talk about discipline, or they'll talk about like needing more willpower or whatever. But I think one of the best analogies I ever kind of came across because like I am a person, I think we spoke over this before, that like I would procrastinate a lot, and like I kind of would, you know, there'll be times where you'd be like, Oh, I just need to be more disciplined, or I need more motivation, or like it's a it's a willpower issue.

The Defogger Analogy

SPEAKER_00 1:10

And the analogy was like, imagine like you wake up in the morning, you're late for work, you think shit, you run out of the car, you start the car, and the window's fogged up. Like, procrastination is just sitting there like waiting for something to happen, like you're just waiting for like, oh, just wait for it to clear. Motivation then is like I'm just gonna squint my eyes and get closer to the windshield, and it's gonna power through it because that's what you're supposed to do, but ultimately you end up just crashing, it just falls apart. Discipline then is like where you're like you go ace ventura style, you put the window down, shove your head out the window, like and just drive recklessly to work or whatever. But then the thing is, like, people think like that's what you need to have is like motivation or discipline. You just kind of power through it, no matter what it is, you need to get it done. But then the fourth option that people often forget about is like just sit there for a minute and turn on the defogger and just defog the windows and make it easier for yourself, and then you can just drive with clear windows. Like, you don't have to like when people look at things and they think like it needs to be hard, and like you gave the example of David Goggins, and I think a lot of people just misunderstand what he's kind of getting at with a lot of these things. Is like you need to kind of chase it being hard that if it's not hard, it's not work well doing, or the whole process needs to be hard. If it feels easy, then something isn't working. But like, if you read like David Goggins' book, like the first book, like he'll talk about the first time he ever ran. Like, he ran like a couple hundred meters, like and had to sit down, and like that was it. And like his thing is like just do more than what you did the last time. Like, you don't have to be like read his book and be like, I have to go and run ultramarathon now. I have to like do mental shit, like break my ankle and just who gives a shit, just keep going. It's like if you can only run for five minutes, and next thing one day you run six minutes, that's huge, that's absolutely huge. So it's like motivation and discipline isn't like just doing something because it's hard, it's like looking at something that might be hard and saying, like, what would this kind of look like if I made it a bit easier? Or how can I make it maybe a small bit easier just so I can do a small bit more? So I think like motivation, discipline, and and all that kind of stuff is is good, and like it is always good when you hear stories, and like it is motivating when like you hear David Goggins talk about his story or his past or wherever it is, but like after a couple of days, you just kind of think, like, what's the point? Like, what's the point of me keep pushing myself? I can kind of get bored of this because I I can't keep this intensity up. So I think you always kind of have to look at situations like that and ask yourself, like, how can I make it a small bit easier so I don't have to rely on willpower, don't have to rely on motivation and discipline, like what can I actually just change? As I said, like if you were to spend that extra minute or sitting in the car, defoging the windows, you're gonna make it ultimately easier and you're gonna get to work, you know, probably in the same amount of time, you're not gonna end up in a crash, you're not gonna have to stick your head out the window. So look at all these situations and try and make them a bit easier for yourself.

Showing Up Without Feeling Like It

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Yeah, and it's an interesting one. Like when you talk about motivation, like if you look at all the stuff you do on a day-to-day basis, like you're you're not overly motivated to like get up out of bed first thing in the morning, but like we have to because it's just part of what we do throughout the day because I've other shit to get on with. Like, I don't, I'm not highly motivated to go into work every single day. It's just something I do because I have to as well. Yes, I want to, and yes, I love dealing with the clients that we have, and I love the job, and it gives me a lot of uh freedom and it gives me a lot of satisfaction and all this crack. But I'm gonna have days where it's like, fuck this. I've I've more pressing shit I need to deal with, but I still need to get on with this stuff. So I don't sit there and wait for a burst of motivation. You just do the shit you need to do and you get on with it as well. Uh you know, if we waited, because people have an option when it comes to their nutrition and their fitness, that one, I guess, right, there's this uh misunderstanding of the likes of Goggins and stuff like this that people think they're like highly motivated all the time. If you actually listen to Goggins and talking about it, like he will sit there on the edge of his bed and he will say, You motherfucker, and he'll like procrastinate and he'll look at his runners and he'll like break into a fit of Tourette's and talk to him for four hours before he actually laces him up and gets on with his shit. So like everyone is susceptible to procrastination, etc. etc. Right. But it's actually looking at tying it back in a little bit more to the goal, and it's looking at the systems that you have to operate and function within that the outcome you're looking for. Because if you only did the things you were really motivated to do, you would do fuck all on a day-to-day basis. And it's like, I don't think you're actually going to get much in terms of the outcome, like like example with the kids, like I it's just something I need to do for them. Like, I need to get up in the middle of the night. I'm not motivated to wake up at four o'clock in the night to go deal with the kids when they're after we in the bed or when they're like crying or whatever it might be, but you get up and you just do the thing you need to do. And like, I don't wait there for motivation to strike me to say, All right, I'm motivated now, I'm gonna get up and go tend to my kids' needs. It's like you just do the shit you need to do. So it's like, yes, people give themselves an out with their training because they don't need to do it immediately that day, they give themselves an out with their nutrition because I can get away with it, I can copy for that, I can I can uh compensate for that later in the week and pull my calories down or start next Monday or whatever. And it's like they're just waiting for this motivation thing to hit them all the time and to think that's the thing that's gonna get them across the line to the goal. If you need to lose 10, 15, 20 kilos of body fat, it's gonna take a considerable amount of time. You are not gonna be motivated for all that length of time. You're gonna see some people again that put themselves out there through social media and put themselves out there and they're like highly motivated individuals. I'm glad I'm not a highly one of those highly motivated individuals because they've got so many shit that they're dealing with that they're dealing with in their head, and so many demons in their closet that they're dealing with that have them out running the roads at four o'clock in the morning, and mental gymnastics that they have to do to like get through every day on a day-to-day basis, and they're relying on uh their exercise and nutrition as a bit of a coping mechanism for it. I'm glad I'm not one of those, thankfully, because I haven't been through that much shit that they have as well. And I think that's a major misunderstanding that they think that these people are just like out there getting after it. It's like they have to, because they're coping mechanism to be able to deal with the shit that they're doing on a day-to-day basis, they just call it motivation. You know, it's like it's something you see across the board. Now, like, don't get me wrong, I've been highly motivated to do a lot of things, and I I have a light on that, and it's it'd been incredible when that motivation is there, lean into it, like fucking get the things done, because you will get so much stuff done, but it's then working through the periods of procrastination and continuing to show up that ultimately gets it across the line because you will face those periods throughout. So, like, what's what's something that you've been incredibly motivated to do? Then also what's something else you've kind of battled through, but like had to show up and get done right as well too, without relying on motivation to do.

Making Training Realistic

SPEAKER_00 7:52

See, it's a hard thing to kind of answer because like I think when I started going to the gym first, or when I started training first, like I was literally doing like six, seven days either end of the gym or six, seven days of just activity in general, and like I could have picked any time of the day to do that. Um and I would have been like, Oh, I'm like a highly motivated person because like I'm you know training every single day or whatever. It's like, but it's just because like I had the time available to do that, I could not do that now. Again, that's me to say, like, oh, but if I was motivated enough or disciplined enough, I probably could because I could just get up at three o'clock in the morning. It's like, but is that realistic? Is that realistic to do it? It's like, no, it isn't. So uh to be honest, I actually don't even know because like I think like the analogy I gave about kind of making it easier. I think I've always just kind of like come to that kind of cool conclusion, and that's why like my training has adjusted over time. It's like I've gone from like say six or seven days, I was that became like not realistic to do, so then I went to like say four days a week, then it became like what I'm doing now currently is like three days a week, and like say where I woke up Monday was 45 minutes, my workout yesterday was forty minutes, whereas before I could have been in the gym for two to three hours. Whereas like I just can't do that now. It's like if I kind of keep trying to white knuckle my way through and saying like, oh no, I need to be in the gym two to three hours, four days a week, it's like something's gonna fall apart, something else is gonna suffer either. It could be my my job, my relationships, my uh personal life, something is going to suffer. So it's like you kind of have to weigh up the pros and cons, you kind of have to weigh up, it's like, right, what am I actually looking to achieve from this? It's like I'm are you looking to like you know be the best athlete in the world, or you're just looking to kind of move a bit more? Are you looking to you know trying to drive your business a bit more? So maybe that's where you kind of prioritize a bit and put a bit more of your time. So I don't think I've ever kind of in a situation where I've like had to like try and change my mindset, and like as you said, like David Goggins, my way through it, where I'm like screaming at myself in the mirror and like putting post-it notes around my mirror and screaming at my runners and stuff just to get after it and things because like the way my personality is I'm like you're wasting fucking time doing like screaming at your runners. To me, I'm like, just put your runners on and go and do it. Because like I'm I'm the kind of person that like I hate time wasting, so it's like to me, I'm like, that's a waste of time. So it's like it's it's all about kind of like your your viewpoint and the way you look at things. Um, to be honest to answer your question, I actually can't even tell you like a period of time when like I had to rely on purely like motivation to get through things. Like I think maybe if I was to look back and say doing photo shoots or something towards the end, you're kind of like maybe you might sit in the car for an extra 10 to 15 minutes, just kind of like listen to music or something, just be like trying to you know build up some bit of momentum, trying to get into the gym to do like cardio because you know you have 90 minutes of cardio or something to do, but then eventually you just kind of get on with it because you know you have to do it, you have a goal you're looking to achieve, so like you just do it. But like I don't think I've ever been in a position where I'll have to like go through to this very deep point in my in my head or a deep dark place to try and push through something because I think when you get to that point, like and I'm I remember before kind of like uh listening to like different bodybuilders and stuff talk about and like just kind of them be telling you to like just be careful of like your approach to training and stuff like that. That like if you have to rely on like severely aggressive music and you have to like get into like deep dark places in your head and stuff to motivate yourself to do like a set, it's like if you have to keep doing that, that's like highly stressful. And if you will get to a point where you probably will find it very hard to kind of switch off after training, or like you'll become that person in the gym that's not going to be approachable. That if someone just like coughs in your general direction when you're in that mindset, like you might just break out like an attack the person. So, like you have to be very, very careful at like how you're using motivation as a kind of a driver to kind of accomplish things.

Identity Beats Hype

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Yeah, because it comes part of your identity, because I'm someone who identifies that person that needs to get very angry to do the thing I want to do. Therefore, it'll start to bleed into other things that you want to do. It's like, well, I created this path of success, but lifted more weight by getting more angry to do the thing. So now when I need to go mow the grass, I need to get fucking angry and hyped up to go do it. It's like not really the thing. Like you're gonna have high motivation in the start because it's new and it's shiny, and there's it's like that honeymoon period of it all, right? Because it's all new and exciting, you're learning so many things, but there's this point of diminishing returns where it all starts to plateau and get a bit stale because it's now becoming the new normal. But when you can start to adapt the identity of the person that just shows up and does the thing as part of their lifestyle, well now you don't really need to lean on motivation that much as well, too. Because I think those who are needing a massive amount of motivation, I don't think the right one, the goal isn't either motivating enough for them, but two, it's like they're in a the wrong headspace to do the thing. If they need to constantly rely on that motivation all the time, they're there's gonna be some friction, there's gonna be something that is just misalignment with the outcomes that they want and the actions that they're taking to get there as well, too. So it is a it's a very, very interesting aspect. Then you have people who you're type A, type B, I always go back to that as well. Like the type A is gonna be like that kind of more highly motivated, driven person they're gonna get up and get after. And type B might be a bit more relaxed about it, but it's different approaches for both of them, then as well. Um, for me, you know, over the years with various different things, you know, I might look like someone that was very motivated when I was doing, you know, competing in bodybuilding or like competing in whatever else, other different things that I've done over the time. But it's just that I actually really enjoyed it. It was just the identity that I had, it was someone that did the thing, and I found great enjoyment or great satisfaction from doing that. So therefore, I might look motivated, but I was just someone that had that, it was part of my identity. I was the person that did that thing. Therefore, it was much easier for me to show up consistently and do it. So it's like, what aspects of that outcome that I want do I need to adapt to my identity and my personality to get the thing? Because now you're becoming the person who seems to be motivated without actually having to be motivated, because now it's just what you do. So it's it's looking at that again. You might seem like you're super motivated to go to work, but it's just you've created that identity of someone that shows up every day and does the extra little bit and reply to the emails on time or show up with the projects done or whatever it might be. But that's little things that you'll do, little action steps all throughout the day that might appear to be motivation to others externally that are looking or trying to accomplish that, but it's just part and parcel of what you do on your day-to-day basis with it all. So it's really looking at the habits of the outcome that you're wanting and how you can adapt that into your day-to-day approach that now make it much, much easier. So again, it's like, you know, you don't have to be continually motivated, but it's looking at those structures, those habits, those routines as the identity of the person that you want to become and how you can adapt that into your lifestyle. So again, like you go into the gym, you thought you needed to go five, six, seven, eight times, go for two hours a time based off what you thought was the gym at the time, or based off your excitement to get there. But then you kind of realize all of a sudden, I don't actually need to go to the gym as much. So now I'm going to go three to four times a week because that's what I need to do, because I understand that that's the habits and routines of the outcomes that I'm wanting, mightn't be as extreme now any longer that I only need to go three to four times a week. And that's like absolutely fine. And you'll see that shifting with people's approaches over the years as well, too, that their identities will shift and change as their uh time in their life shifts and changes as well, too. So that can be again like something people think, oh, I used to be super motivated to go to the gym. It's like, yeah, well, he had way more time to go do it. It's like you can't adapt that same approach now, so you need to be realistic of where you are in your current position as

Music Films And False Momentum

SPEAKER_03 15:32

well. Um, the motivation thing, have I ever relied on like YouTube or like motivational speeches and talks? I used to listen to Ray Lewis a lot when I was like doing uh he's an NFL footballer, like he's a crazy motherfucker. Uh I used to dip in and out of a little bit of goggon stuff if I needed to be a little bit less of a bitch at times with certain things. If you used to dip into a book called The Forgotten Highlander, I'd I'd recommend that a lot for people. He doesn't give you any motivational speeches, but he just kind of makes you realise that there's a lot of shit you just need to get on with and get done, and you can probably handle a lot more stuff as well, too, that you don't need to rely on motivation to get to the outcomes that you're looking for. That's one book I'd highly recommend everyone uh read and look up just for a sense of reality with it all as well, too. Just get on with stuff. Um sources you would have used over the years for motivation? If you're ever dipping into it.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

I think music, probably just because music was like a big part of my life, it still is. Like, I think that's my original background. It's kind of like in music. So music was always something that I would have had, so like I would have had like different playlists depending on like say the days you were training, or like different kind of uh like even even going off of like exercises, like say if it was a leg day, for example, or like specific leg exercises, you'd have specific songs that you just listened to in that for for that actual set. Um I think outside of that never really kind of like because I never really got kind of motivated by like videos as such, it was only if there was like a particular song in the video in the background that it kind of made it more motivating to me because like I can remember years and years ago, and this is going back to like when I was maybe 1920, um I can remember like I that was where like it was close to my peak in terms of like body weight and body fatness. But I remember I watched the movie Warrior uh with uh Tom Hardy. I can't think of the other guy in it. Um but it was about like the MMA fighters, and I remember like I remember watching that and like towards the end of it, and it still is something that like I will get motivated watching the end of it, and like it's something that actually will make me like shed a tear or two at the end, but like he's choking him out and he tells him he loves him, the father's there and everything. I remember I got up the following morning and I had like a tap out top, funnily enough, and that was kind of like tap out was all the rage then for like fighters and stuff. And I remember I put that on, and I ran about remember being motivated, and I must have ran for about five minutes, and like just I was fucked. I remember just being like, I can't do this at all, like and I packed it in then because like I kind of used the motivation from that thing being like I can do it, but like I wasn't really using like say any sort of logic behind my approach, it was just again that white knuckling of just like what's gotta go run 10 miles motivation.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Yeah, because the the motivated guy can run that, so why can't I?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, because like a lot of people think if you just have motivation, it's just like endless. But like motivation probably took me the first like minute after that. It was just purely like I'm dying here, and you're just gonna give up, and then that's when like it actually is just gonna be a lot harder, a lot harder.

Environment Design Over Willpower

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Uh, and I think a lot of people rely on motivation then for like you know, time and time again, you'll see people saying like they'll almost celebrate if like I didn't I didn't eat chocolate today, like I didn't eat chocolate, like I resisted the chocolate, and they'll wear like a badge of honor again. That's something that's not gonna last too long because like if it's that hard for you to kind of like resist chocolate and you're relying on just like you having a really good day where like stress doesn't pile on top of you to not not eat the chocolate, when stress does come on top of you, you're probably gonna eat even more chocolate because you've been kind of resisting it. Um, and like if you're kind of living in an environment that's kind of created for you to have to rely on willpower and have to rely on motivation, it's gonna be a lot harder for you to do things on the days that are hard. So, like if everyone's probably rated atomic habits at this stage, but like the first step is like to make it invisible. Like, if you've chocolate all over the house, you're gonna find it very, very hard to like not eat that chocolate. Whereas if you put it away somewhere like up in the press, somewhere at the back of the cupboard, you're not gonna have to rely on that willpower because like you're probably gonna actually forget to even have it. So I think like I think again, like motivation can be good like for that single day when you don't eat the chocolate, when you have to like kind of resist it. It's like, do you know what I felt good today? I didn't have the chocolate, or like if you just started a run, or if you started going to the gym, and that's great to get you in the door of the gym or to start your run, but like what's gonna keep you there is gonna be like the structure, the routine, the habits, and everything that you kind of built up. So I think motivation and willpower and all these things are are really good to kind of start things off initially. But I think you need to have you know a bigger reason why to kind of kind of keep things going. Because like if you don't have a reason as to why you're doing it, you're gonna find it very, very hard to kind of keep going.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Yeah, because like relying on motivation to get through a good day is it's gonna be a big pitfall for people because you're gonna have more shit days or more days where you'll you know need to dig in that little bit more as well, too. And if that's only built around like good days and struggling through that, you're you're gonna find it's a a major pitfall with that. Um yeah, it's it's a really interesting topic, and everyone's gonna respond that a little bit differently as well, too. But I think it's looking at how easy you can make it to do the thing as opposed to having to rely on motivation to do the thing is gonna get you to do the thing. Um, so again, I that's uh a Chris Williamson thing. He's like talking about the thing is not doing the thing, writing a tweet about the thing is not doing the thing, watching a YouTube about the thing is not doing the thing. It's like just go and do the goddamn thing, and you'll find it much, much easier and there's less friction. Because now people make this big thing about it about getting to the gym or about getting to do the meal prep or about getting to do the project or whatever. It's like just make less of a thing about it now. You'll reply or rely less on motivation to actually get that across the line.

Key Takeaways And Reach Out

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Um I'm gonna cut this here because I think we've either one gone down a rabbit hole a little bit too far, or there's been loads of useful information to people actually dig in on it as well. Because I think it's like one of those that like it is a very personal thing as well, but it's also to share our own insights with this, and like, yeah, you'll get some insight into what makes us trigger, and maybe it'll uh create a bit more understanding for you as to why you may feel motivated or why you feel you need motivation all the time as well, too. Um, but it's to understand that you don't you shouldn't have to rely on that all the time to get the thing done because ultimately people are listening to this because they've got some form of self improvement that they want to take care of or improve on as well. So it's like making the thing as easy to do as physically possible. Motivation when it comes, absolutely ride the wave, but it's not going to be there all the time and understand that as well. That it's going to be fleeting and it's you're going to need to rely on other aspects and other systems and other structures to keep that afloat and to keep the project rolling long enough to actually see it through and get return from it as well. Uh, Daniel, hopefully this episode has been useful for people. I'd love to hear your insights. Uh, make sure you reach out, touch base, drops an email, drops a DM, reach out, let us know if you found it useful. Let us know if you thought we were talking absolute bollocks as well, too, by all means. Uh, but it's been a useful episode, I think, from our side. Daniel, it's been a pleasure.