S5 Ep. 4 | Building a Student-Centered Culture with WIN Time

In this episode, listen as two Assistant Superintendents break down the WIN Time program at the school, how it relates to MTSS and their PLC, and see how all of this work impacts their school culture - at the District level. Nicole Semas-Schneeweis and George Ferro of Whitman-Hanson Regional School District break down the why the saw the need to implement WIN Time at all campuses and grade levels, the challenges they faced, the benefits, and advice they have for any schools who want to do the same.

Links:

Different Types of Flexible Schedules

Transcript

Ashley Mauger  0:07  
reimagining time is a podcast that shares the stories and ideas of educators who are changing the way they use time to meet student needs the thoughts expressed do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of enriching students.

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  0:24  
I don't think you can have a an effective MTSS model without having time built in. That's that's when time,

Ashley Mauger  0:33  
WIN time MTSS and PLCs. How do they all fit together, and how can they transform your school culture and help you meet student needs, not just at an isolated school but district wide. This episode will tackle the concept of when or what I need time from a district administrator view, what can you learn about implementing a program successfully, and how to maintain a clear vision despite managing innumerable moving pieces, joined by assistant superintendents, Dr Nicole Seamus, schneeweis and Dr George Farrow, this podcast is a master class of the nitty gritty details about putting win time in place district wide, and how it creates a student centered culture. All right, so I just wanted to get started to kind of set the scene with talking about your district just a little bit. So I wanted to ask about the Whitman Hanson Regional School District. And just if you guys want to tell us a little bit about your district and what you think makes it special, sure,

George Ferro  1:41  
I think this is my 21st year in the district. I think I think it's special enough that I did move my family here so my students, my own children, went through the district. They're now college graduated, but there's always been a small town feel, and there's always the issue that if there was ever a topic when you're a principal that parents needed to be involved or there, or there was an incident where you need to speak to parents about something, they're always willing to come to the table, be on your side, sometimes not on your side, but at least be able to listen. And then at least know that you also might see them at the local food store. You might see them on the ball field. You might see them at the band concert. So there was always the respect that if there was an issue, we talked about it, we even if we're not on the same sides, we'd still do what's right for their kids and for the students. So I always liked that. I grew up in a city and but I've come to think of Whitman and Hanson as a place where I'm trying to do what's best for kids, and you try to have open communication. And I found so far that both sides always will listen, and then we'll, we'll decide what takes place from there.

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  2:47  
Yeah, I would say what George said, the people for sure, make it a very special place. Like George said he lives in the community. We have a number of staff who live in the community. So they're not just, you know, teachers and educators and administrators, but they actually are community members as well. And I think that makes it special, because it says something about the space you you want to contribute to. It, George, Jeff and I suggest the superintendent. George and I are both the assistant superintendents. We have all been in the So, George, the longest at 21 years. I've been here 17 years. And Jeff, I think 15 or 16. And the three of us have all worked together, George and Jeff in their role since 2018 I came up in 2022 but, but Jeff had was the principal when I was a teacher in the high school. So we've all worked together and know each other, and I think that's really special and rare for administrators to stay in one place for so long. And I think it says something about the community and just the commitment to each other, to the students and to the staff and citizens,

Ashley Mauger  4:05  
yeah, so it sounds like there's really a community feel at the school and something that's kind of a bigger motivation that's driving the work that you're doing. Think so, yeah, yeah, this kind of environment can be a more welcoming one for innovations and thinking outside the box. And at Whitman Hanson, they're all about that. They've been providing win time for students for years, but not just they've been providing win time for students, but not just at the elementary level all the way up through 12th grade. This is a part of their schedule district wide, the win in win time again stands for what I need, and it's a period of time built into the school day to ensure that students get the academic, emotional and behavioral support and enrichment they need, as well as opportunities for extended learning and things like passion projects, most commonly. Right? People may be familiar with wind time only at the elementary level. So what prompted this strong admin team at Whitman Hanson to see the need to implement it throughout the district?

George Ferro  5:10  
I think when we look at when we knew it was in a post COVID world, we knew it was something that we needed to do. We knew that there was ed tech that was out there in order to do it, and the natural inclination was, again, to start at the elementary school. We took some lumps, like you'll hear the word evolution, I'm sure, quite a few times. And as things evolved, we've changed them. But we always wanted to say, So, how can we do this now at the next grade level? How can we do this at middle school? How can we then do this at high school? And what would it take? And I've always been a scheduled guy, and the middle school principals now that are there are scheduled people, Nikki knows how to do scheduling from all those years of special ed, so that it was just a natural outgrowth. You know, what can we take from here and bring it to the middle school? What can we take now from the middle school and bring it to the high school? So sort of a natural evolution, and then it obviously looks different at the three levels based on the age and the needs of students, but I think it was just if it worked well here, why can't we? So instead of saying we can't, which sometimes happens in education, because it's tough for change, we all sort of adopted the motto and the principles were great about it too, but some resistance, but mostly great about it is that? Why can't we and then we went to the other

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  6:21  
levels? Yeah, I think, and I think

for George duff and I, we are committed to what we put out in our strategic plan and our vision, and our vision is very much focused on all students at each level. And so if we're driven by a vision, we should then make sure that we are actually implementing what it says. And so like George Lee Dow it I wouldn't say it's easier at the elementary per se. It's just there's more examples having middle school and high school backgrounds in the central office administration, we know that those kids need just as much as elementary kids need, in terms of what I need. They have needs that and as a special education, I was a special education administrator before I came to central office, and one of the things that I did, or would look at, is how many referrals for special education are we having? And we would find that we were having a large number of referrals, and not finding students in need like they they weren't actually requiring special education services, but clearly they were. They had needs. They they and the people referring them were referring them because they felt like something was being missed. But we didn't have anything for that. In between, it was either you're you're here and you're Gen Ed and you're struggling, or you must have a special education need then, and that's not the case either. So what's that in between? So we felt like kids at all ages deserve in between something else to help them, whether it's social, emotionally, behaviorally or or academically. And it doesn't always mean that there's a disability, it could just mean a snapshot in time is a struggle, and we just need a space for them.

Ashley Mauger  8:16  
Now let's talk about some of the challenges that they faced. We can see that win was really an essential part of them living up to their commitment of helping all students succeed. But what were some of the challenges of implementing this that might help others who are trying to do this at their school?

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  8:32  
The Middle School, this is our third year, and we like third version, so every year, and I wouldn't say necessarily, challenges so much as, Ooh, that was something that we just learned from, or an opportunity or and so in the first year, when we brought it, we it was about scheduling, and we brought it, and we only were identifying students actually who needed intervention. So we were overlaying it with related arts. And then the next year, it was like, wait a minute, like with MTSS. MTSS is also like, focused very much on, like, you don't remove students. It's not supplanting. It's supplementing. And that all kids benefit from having some opportunity for some what they need time to

Ashley Mauger  9:15  
set the scene. Think back to the flexibility and openness to the evolution of this program that they mentioned earlier. This kind of mindset helps you to view challenges as learning experiences, not catastrophes. Starting slow, they focused on intervention and then adopting an MTSS based approach with the idea that all students deserve access to intervention or enrichment, really whatever they need, but as part of this learning journey, not every choice was exactly a good one.

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  9:45  
So the second year, we changed it again. And we did, but, but this would be, and George and I talked about this like, this is probably the one if anybody you know takes anything away, would be like we. Called it win enrichment, or when intervention. And I don't know that we necessarily publicly did that like with kids, but they picked up on it pretty quickly. And so it was like, oh. So in this year, we started calling it win literacy, which is for everybody, or when math, which some students are in. But when literacy can be across the board, because you can be receiving enrichment and literacy, you can do literacy in all the content areas. So and we worked on looking at the state standards around literacy and making sure that they were being implemented, whether it was in an enrichment section or in an intervention section. So you know just how savvy kids are on picking up like you're in Win intervention versus enrichment like and that we needed to be more making sure that students you know, weren't getting that message that there was something wrong with being in a certain section or whatever

Ashley Mauger  11:00  
the name of this period might seem like a silly detail, but kids are smart, and they're quick to notice any hints that they're being labeled. While this wasn't the intention with the naming of this time, they learned that it had to be more universal and use language that didn't make anyone feel targeted, using words that are generalized, connected to your school culture and that have a positive connotation, are important considerations. And then I

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  11:25  
would say the other piece about that was we last year, and the change to this year again was the kids, the feedback. We got feedback from the students, and it was we scheduled them for five wins, one a day, or, well, no, I'm sorry, there were still four, but they were all when intervention or enrichment, there was no opportunity to like, see teachers. So if a kid was absent, they didn't have time built in their day anymore to like, go see a teacher or, you know, go over materials. So we, we incorporated that back in. So now they get three, either literacy or math opportunities, and one we call it win flex, that carries into the high school. That win Flex is the same language we use in high school, which is when a when a student can go see a teacher for extra help, makeup, whatever it is built in the day,

Ashley Mauger  12:18  
student feedback can be captured through ongoing conversations to get a pulse on things and through survey data. And as with the words that are used, students are also quick to note when their voices are not being heard, when time is a time period that directly impacts them and their ability to be successful. So their voices should matter. So what were some other challenges, and how did they let these inform how they proceeded with win time? I

George Ferro  12:45  
think we also tried, before we brought the teachers on board, before we even brought the building admins on board, we tried to say, okay, what are some of the things that we're going to hold fast with? And I think that was helpful. So like we held fast with it's going to be 35 minutes a day. We held fast with at the outset, we held fast with that. We want this to be successful. We also held fast with that. We didn't want to have teacher resentment at having to plan or prep for these pieces. So we spent a lot of time and having district interventionists. So our model at the elementary school is we have two district interventions. One is reading or literacy, and one is math. And their job is really to you know, we have our SWAT team that goes in and does the dibbles and goes in and does the math, fluency facts, and then they take their diagnostic. We use I ready, and then we make groups, but we tried to have these people work with the interventionist at the building in order to design groups, in order to make thoughtful groups, and in order to curate, win resources based on standards, groups of standards, so that when the groups were formed, we tried to keep it at the elementary schools only three standards, no more than three standards of students that you'd have in A group. And we did it the whole grade level, and then it allowed for then teachers to be able to dive into it.

Ashley Mauger  14:12  
I'm sure every teacher would appreciate not having more and more piled onto their plate. This reorganization not only helped take the pressure off, but also made it easier to allocate available funds, and sometimes an anticipated challenge turns out to be a benefit. It

George Ferro  14:29  
also, at the elementary school, an unanticipated bonus, which originally we thought might be a sticking point, was it wasn't just your students, it was students across the grade level. So if it's a fourth grade win, it's the fourth grade teachers, along with the interventionists, along with the paraprofessionals and the support people, all stopping at the same time. And what the teachers themselves, not a challenge, but a hesitation. Will say at the beginning was, I know I teach my students, I want to teach my students, but by the end, they really loved it. What we saw were the added benefits of SEL or whatever you want to call it, but kids made more connections, and teachers made more connections. So we provided upfront some decisions, we provided upfront support, and then we allowed everybody to be part of the process. And I think in doing that, it was able to create better buy in not every, not every level was the exact same with the amount of buy in they wanted initially, but, but they all came around so that they have a vested interest in how it runs, what it looks like, and how we can support them. Yeah.

Ashley Mauger  15:32  
Nice. It sounds so it sounds like there was a lot of kind of front loading that you did with planning, good communication throughout the process, with with the staff members, being careful about your wording, with, like, what you were calling the win time, and then people seeing the benefits, which is something that that we've seen so often, there there's hesitation, and then people see, they jump in, and they see how it works, and then that builds momentum. But is there anything else you want to add about how you overcame some challenges,

George Ferro  16:03  
I would say at the middle school,

Nikki kind of spearheaded it, but we reimagined the lead teacher role, and the lead teacher role was one at the middle school. So we have two middle schools, and we basically had eight lead teachers, science, social studies, ELA and math for each school, and those teachers would work with the curriculum directors. The curriculum directors go six to 12, but we wanted to say, Nikki, what came up with a plan of, how can we use that pool of money, that stipend, pool of money, increase leadership opportunities for staff, and then help with this win process? So what we basically did was, instead of having eight academic leaders, we went down to four, one per subject, and then we went to grade level. Grade Level leads also, but with this like the same amount of money. So basically what that did was the principals like that, because they could have a sixth grade point person for sixth grade communication, seventh grade, eighth grade, and then the curriculum coordinators and staff liked it because we chose two, basically lead teachers per discipline from each Middle School, because we have two middle schools, so now we sort of bred this cross town discipline, English staff, Social Studies staff, science staff, of All the teachers at both schools. So it really did strengthen the curriculum, but these other lead teachers were also able to provide and help with the grade level. So wind gets strengthened. Departments got strengthened and grew, and then principals still had their point person, and it was really just looking at a problem, looking at the pot of money we had. We talked to the union. They seemed on board with it, and then we were able to make it go from there.

Ashley Mauger  17:47  
So really, what they were able to do was consolidate and get their schools on the same page with the curriculum and win time. It can be hard with a multitude of individual ideas and maybe just wanting to do things your way, the way they organized curriculum directors, academic leaders and lead teachers allowed them to really focus on where they were going to use the available funds. Yeah, I would say that the

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  18:12  
probably the best way we've, I think, been able to manage any obstacles that have arisen. Or, you know, feedback is just being flexible, realizing that just because we envisioned it being one way doesn't mean that that's the way it has to be. So I think that that's probably the other, you know, advice I would give to to another school district, looking at, how do you implement a K to 12? Again, this for us, was very systematic. It's four years been four years at the elementary three years at the middle school, and this is the first year at the high school. So we've taken time. We've looked at what's worked, what hasn't worked. We've thought about how it's going to build. We, like George said, laid out our non negotiables, like one of them being we're doing this, that's a non negotiable, but then the negotiables have always been. If it's not working, tell us why, and let's let's address that. Being

Ashley Mauger  19:09  
flexible and open, though, doesn't mean changes are made on a whim. As Nicole mentioned, these changes have been systematic. So part of an effective, flexible system is knowing what your non negotiables are, as Nicole continued to bring out, this is really the piece of helping to overcome any challenge. Be open to the fact that you can expect the unknown and will need to make changes. Added to that they had to stay focused on the bottom line. There's

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  19:37  
a lot of stakeholders involved in these decisions, right? There's the admin and there's the teachers and there's the parents and there's the students. And so sometimes, when you're you're getting, you're being presented with a particular, particular challenge or obstacle. It's coming from one of those stakeholders. And so what we've had to also do is like, what is our vision and who is this? Is this? What's best for this? Students, like, I understand teacher X, like, you might not like this and it, but what's the best at the end of the day for the students? So we've stayed grounded in that piece too, because it goes back to what George said, like, we've had to negotiate with our union, you know, because there's a contract and there are certain amount of classes that, you know, teachers can't teach more than certain amount of classes. So how do we utilize staff to curate materials so that teachers don't have to do extra work, like all of those pieces, but when we've stayed grounded in, oh, but is this best for students, all of our students, that helps inform like, how we want to move forward?

George Ferro  20:37  
Yeah. And I would say the only other thing I would add is, like, you have to, you know, sometimes as like leaders, you know. I mean, I always say this, like, you don't become a leader without some sense of ego, you know. And we can say that's not true, but I think it is true. But when you take on something like this, you really have to make sure that you check your own ego, because sometimes you make a plan, you think it's a plan. You got a glossy brochure, you think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and then a week into it, you're like, ooh, we have to change. So I think flexibility and evolution. If there's somebody out there who's looking to do this, it's like, slow and steady. What are your non negotiables? Please realize that the best plan you have is only the blueprint, and now we're going to go down that road, and there will be change. And I think if everybody knows that and comes at it with we're not going to stop it. But how do we make it better? Then you have this evolution. Because it truly is. This has truly been an evolution at all three levels.

Ashley Mauger  21:38  
George and Nicole really emphasize the bottom line being what's best for students, and this shapes the decisions they make, and inevitably, the culture at the school through challenging scheduling decisions and union negotiations, this is their guiding principle, and it also helps check ego like George mentioned. I'm sure we've all experienced what happens when we have an idea or get inspired by something and become so attached to it like we own it. But while it's good to have conviction and non negotiables, it's important to be willing to set that aside and iterate when it comes to new ideas, part of that flexibility at Whitman Hanson is reflected in how when time changes as students get older,

George Ferro  22:20  
and it's also what you touched upon before. Students get choice as they move. So as a student ages, as a student gets a student voice, and as a student starts to take ownership of their own learning. At each level, they get a little bit more choice in what they need help with, how they need help, and then what? As Nick said, that wind flex, that wind flex period is the opportunity to then maybe have a group or a club or something during that time, so that students, who normally can't stay after school because they have siblings get off the bus or they have to go to work or whatever, there's even a time built in where you can have that club or whatever at school. So it truly becomes inclusive and it becomes equitable for all.

Ashley Mauger  23:04  
There are so many moving pieces to this, and speaking of an evolving process, what are some changes that they're looking to make in the future? First, let's talk about the elementary level. I

George Ferro  23:15  
think the last piece of the evolution so far this year is that we're noticing that we're doing a really good job with identifying and helping our tier one and tier two students. But right now we get to the point where, again, time, right this is called reimagining time. We get to the point where we have identified four students who are, let's say, in a first grade. And now the pieces is, how do we still help them? How do we still reimagine time or look at time in order to get them their tier three support? Because we're not ready to say they need special education. We're not ready to say we can't remediate this. So that's where the evolution of this is now taking us. It's like, here's that tip. We're at the tip. We know the pieces. But how do we still help them at the middle school level, it's become, well, how do we then recognize burgeoning academic time? So how do we recognize or the students that have a deficit in both reading and math, and as they get older, it becomes, you know, more important than that, much more high stakes.

Ashley Mauger  24:16  
Things really do become more high stakes as students get older. Research has revealed that a student's Middle School experience and achievement can dramatically impact their high school experience. It's also a time to help train students to manage increasing responsibilities and build good habits. In addition to their win time, they're looking at having a daily flex time to further support their middle school students. So any final tips to summarize how to make one time a success,

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  24:45  
to make it successful is to to be, we said, flexible, but also to adjust, to take in the feedback, to take in both quantitative and qualitative data. Like, yes, there's, there's a good amount of quantitative data that we now can have on. Students, which is fantastic, but also the qualitative like, what are people saying and feeling like, what's behind those numbers and having those conversations and then figuring out again, if we're rooted in what's best for our students, then what changes do we have to make?

Ashley Mauger  25:22  
I Yeah, it's, it's, um, this is this kind of transitions into my PLC question, which is good because that that's a continuous process too, right? Like you don't just say we have PLCs now, so as as a PLC, just so before we break down the PLC process at Whitman Hanson, let's do a quick recap. What makes win successful in their district. Number one, being flexible yet firm. Identify your non negotiables, but be willing to shift as you get important feedback. Number two, focus on your North Star. What is your number one priority that should underscore everything you do in their district, they always came back to, is this, what's best for students. Then number three, that evolution piece, while this goes hand in hand with flexibility, it really takes the form of accepting that your program will change, and looking at ways you can change it for the better, taking in quantitative and qualitative data, maybe surveys student needs and being guided by the principles of MTSS to inform how your program will evolve over time. So let's get back to the PLC talk. This is a process that has been established for years in their district at the elementary and middle school level, K through eight, and while they don't have their schedule formatted to use wind for the PLC meetings. What they accomplish as a PLC is directly related to the success of their win time. This year for the first time, they expanded their PLC process to include the high school. So how are their PLCs structured in their district to make this happen at all levels, K through 12, but we

George Ferro  27:02  
were able, with the new schedule that brought in win at the high school to allow also we have a five drop three, and we were able to now have time for both certain grade levels and also at the high school department time. So for the first time, but at the K to eight. We've had PLCs for as long, for 20 years at the at the since, since I got here. And it's a dedicated time once a week, by grade level, and then by related arts, you know, at the middle school level or special ed, where they can be together. The

Ashley Mauger  27:37  
type of five drop three schedule that George is describing is a rotating drop schedule in which students attend a certain number of classes out of the total number offered. For example, a school may have an eight class rotation, and on a given day, students attend classes one through five. The next day, one of those dropped classes gets added so the students would attend classes two through six, and drop class seven, eight and one. This allows students to have exposure to different types of classes each day and can create more flexible opportunities. We'll share a guide to some different schedule types in this episode's description. But within a PLC meeting, how do you keep the focus, which for them is again, what's best for students again?

George Ferro  28:26  
And I think the the sticking point, not the sticking point, but what you want to try to get to is you move away from telling stories, and you want to try to get to, you know, how do we talk about either instructional practices or things that affect students? So a lot of the PLC time has been as a result of when and then we move that PLC into like a child study team or a stat team, or a child requiring assistance, whatever you call it, so that we can really focus on one or two students specifically. But we always had the flexibility to have PLC meetings talk about instruction. PLC meetings talk about sometimes the routine of the day, if it's the end of the school year and you're having a field trip, and then also those PLCs that turn into those pretty intense child study team meetings that say, how do we really help these two kids, these three kids, so that we can try to not let anybody fall through the

Nicole Semas-Schneeweis  29:19  
cracks? Yeah. And I think because we had a really strong PLC model K to eight, it actually contributed also to the success of when, because we already had a space built in to have data meetings and talk about intervention. So so while they don't, play off each other in terms of scheduling or anything like that. They do. They do support each other in the sense of the PLC. So they are weekly, and a few times a year, those PLCs are dedicated to discussing when specifically. So I think having that space and that time, I. Already established has contributed positively to making sure that win is effective.