The Future of Podcasting & Audio (ft. André Archimbaud, Growth Lab Show)

Today is a special show indeed! Not only is it the first one in our spiffy new studio, but it's also with André Archimbaud, a longtime friend of Jeremy's. Andre is known as a bit of a renaissance man, but he really shines when it comes to audio. He's been around the media space his entire career, and now co-hosts the USA Today network's The Growth Lab Show, a weekly podcast by LOCALiQ.

When you want to have an insightful conversation about the future of podcasting and audio - with a few meandering turns along the way - there aren't too many people better to speak to Andre. We cover Andre's favorite podcasts, how businesses can best take advantage of podcasts, and why audio is continuing to grow as a format.

Transcript

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André 0:00

I just think that we're, we're no where near the saturation point. I think the technology, the portability of the technology , uh, is a massive differentiator.

Jeremy 0:19

so I'm really excited today to have somebody who I've known for quite a while . Uh , and I'm not just having them on just because , uh, they are , uh, you know, a dear friend, but also because they know more than just about anybody else when it comes to the future of podcasting and audio in general. Uh, Andre Archambault, he is the Co , a host of the growth lab show podcast. Uh, and he is one of those people that I think is really inspiring because you will find out 14 things he's terrific at and has had a tremendous impact on the world of business with. And then you'll find out that there's a 15th and the 16th . So , um , it's going to be really informative a show. I think. So, Andre , welcome to the show.

André 1:02

Thanks so much for having me, Jeremy. It's a real pleasure to be here. Yeah , we had you on our show. So it's a little turnabout is fair play here. I love it. Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely. You know , um, and , uh, I think you survived a , or I survived being with you and , uh, now the , the pleasure is all mine. I mean, I think for first off, what we ask people a lot is just tell me, you know, your name and how you describe yourself. What the hell you do on a day to day basis. Oh Gosh. Born in Jersey, raised in Texas. I haven't said that today. Uh, that phrase is something that I, that comes out of my mouth , uh , on the regular , um, and went to college in Boston and I've been in New York the end of , uh, this month, meaning August , uh, 2019. Not sure when this is gonna run. Uh, but in 22 years in New York City , uh, in fact , um, my first department was about seven, eight blocks from here. Um , for the first four years that I was in New York City on 88th , between second and third. So now we're , as we're gonna get into the meat and a potato , like the really important stuff that everybody's here to learn about the future of podcasting and what we're audio is going to go. Sure. Uh , but first we want to , uh, you know, waste people's time for a minute or two with a very quick lightning round of just getting to know you questions that are unprepared and you will not be prepared for any of these. Are you ready? I am ready. Okay, very quickly. Um, what's your favorite city to visit? Uh, in all of the world. Ooh, favorite city. Um, uh , I'm going to go with Dublin. Okay. And how about since you've had a lot of great people on your show, you can say me, but what has been your most interesting , uh, or inspiring in some way, interview that you conducted so far? Funnily enough, my next door neighbor, Kevin Tuohy , uh , he's probably the most inspiring, a really, really great story and so much so that we, we made his episode the two part episode that we're doing. Oh, there, there you go. Good answer. Um, how about this? Um, if you had to , uh, take one state in the United States and just Nuca , which would it be? Oh Gosh, I wouldn't, I , I don't , uh, can we say Guam? Cause it's not, I mean it's a nevermind. Um , I don't wanna I would not , I don't want to do that to anybody and I'm not being politically correct, but, no, that's fine. We live in a, we live in a very fevered pitch , uh, period. And in fact, the company that I worked for, we were in the process of merging with another company and one of our properties is in Guam. Tom, even sort of shape , maybe not even qualm . I would just say whoever has the least number of individuals, you know, just to be honest. But that's fine. We all got [inaudible] because you wouldn't answer the question, you know , at the left fallback option was everyone instead of just one. Yeah. Yeah. And how about , um, last question , uh, since we're going to be really talking about audio, what is one podcast or audio, you know, content that can be an audio book or whatever that you consume lately that you'd recommend? Oh Gosh , uh, I mean I'm a , I'm going to give three. I'm sorry. I , I just, cause I love these three shows. Uh, my first, the first podcast I ever listened to was Alec Baldwin's. Um , here's the thing. Always a great interview. Um, about three years ago, a buddy of mine turned me on to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast revisionist history. Uh, I don't love his books, but man, do I love his podcast. I'm mad at you for saying that, but, okay. And then , uh , number three , um , a guy that I'm kind of buddies with, a guy named Joseph Arthur , uh , as a musician , um, here in New York. Um, really, really cool guy and great story. And so he's been in the music business for 25 years as a performer and producer , um, just put out a really great record with Peter Buck. Uh, but as a result of the 25 years that he's been in the business, he's got great relationships with really, really cool people. And , uh, his show is relatively new and for me, required listening and we'll put that in the show notes. Actually Malcolm Gladwell , uh, is going to be on the show next week. He's going to be really annoyed when I tell him that. And also Malcolm Gladwell's not going to be on the show next week. So , um , his agents, agents agent still has to return our calls. But , um, yeah. So I wanted to ask you , uh, just what's been one of your top takeaways from speaking to business leaders over the last year or two? Uh, cause obviously you've , you have this wide , uh , group of people that you've spoken to and gotten some inspiration from. Are there any particular trends that you've noticed or things that you're thinking about as a result of being able to interview these people through the podcasting medium? Sure. Um, yeah , I think the , um, probably my, one of my favorite guests so far, aside from Kevin Tuohy and Jeremy called and Jeremy Golden . And of course, I mean the , listen, that's a given. I wouldn't be sitting here if , if that weren't the case. Uh, I think the, the, one of my favorite guests was Laura Gassner Odding . Um, she put out a book called limitless about , uh, three, four months ago. Um, I want to say in , in the spring of 2019. And she , um, the, the book is Great. The, the um, uh, it's, ah, it's called limitless. It talks about ways we live in a world now where you really end . The, the other really impressive guests was, was , um, uh , my friend Amber Nazila and I think, you know, amber as well. She , um, the two of them in tandem and they weren't, we didn't have them on the show together, but the two of them in tandem kind of said versions of the same thing. You know, be yourself. Bring your authenticity to the [inaudible] and lean into the things that you're really, really great at , uh, and left this stuff that you're mediocre at or not good at, fall away and focus on the good things that you are that's thus limitless. But then the thing with amber and Azlan is that her, her whole , um, uh , job at linkedin is to get brands, big brands like fortune 500, fortune 100, maybe even thousands , uh, those companies to, to, to create content for the linkedin platform. But a lot of what we talked to her about was the idea of having , uh , um, uh, being authentic as your individual self. So, you know, me and my, my, my music thing, so talk to me, I, and it's something I've been bad at historically. Um, you know, me talking about the things that I am interested in from a music standpoint and allowing folks in my audience to see that and go, oh, I like that too. I'm, I might be more prone to liking Andre or doing business with Andre or, yeah , I mean , you know, and that's, I think one nice thing was now people can let their personal brand aspects , you know, fly out there and also people can wear multiple hats now. And I mean you, obviously you've done other things with your career other than just a podcast host. But indeed, but now I think a lot of people who I know, they think of you in that way. And I think what's great is that you've been able to, I think, not just learn so much from these people, but also you've become more of an expert about what , uh , the world of podcasting and audio looks like. And I mean to , are there , are there any, you know, trends that you're in particular following over that, that you expect to see more of, more of this, less of that over the next few years specifically within the realm of podcasting? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think , uh, I my step it back from the , the rim of just podcasting and include audio in general and not necessarily including music, although I think there's still some, some moving pieces in music. I feel I feel , um , authoritative enough to be able to speak about the music thing as well. And not just like stylistically here , John Genre driven, but just from a tech standpoint, that really is my background. I studied music production , uh , at Emerson College in Boston, way back. And so that's my grounding, my roots, if you will. Those are my roots, if you will. Um, but for me, I think the future of audio , uh, it's its own, I think it's only gonna grow. Uh, I don't think we're anywhere near saturation when you look at, despite the fact that podcasting has really been around for about 15 years, it's been such a slow burn. It has been. Um, but as I've said to the folks that I know that I run into, you know, when they find out that I'm involved with the growth lab show, you know, and they know my history, they're like, well, of course, cause I , I've hosted my own music show as you know, cause I know that you've, you've played my music show in New York Standard , uh, on your, in your house, in your mother's house. If I remember one story, you, you, you know, and your mother was like, Oh my God, I can't believe this. That's good stuff. Yeah. That kind of a thing. But, but , uh, I , uh, I just think that we're, we're nowhere near the saturation point. I think the technology, the portability of the technology , uh, is a massive differentiator. Um, I'm excited. I'm excited about some of the possibilities and I want to stress this cause I'm putting some company stock on the line here. We at gun net slash USA today slash local line Q have gotten some traction with some of our virtual reality stuff, augmented reality, et cetera. Um, I'm pushing to try to get more to do more within podcasting and audio in general within those realms within VR and ar. Um, we do a great job. Our producer Stephanie Heitmann does a brilliant job of , um, uh, compiling lab notes for each of our episodes. I would love nothing more for that to be a really dynamic experience. Instead of download the PDF , a fill in the blank, blah, blah, blah. Think downloading PDFs is very dynamic. No, well, especially considering I think about it and I've seen some of the data, the overwhelming amount of downloads within podcasting are mobile. Where, how are you going to download? And especially since, and I know a little bit about this from what I know about this specifically , um, uh , apple podcast , where are you going to attach that, those lab notes? There might be a link within the show notes, but where are you going to get that? So the, the, the ability to , to be dynamic in there is really pretty cool. Um, whether or not that happens, that's what I would love to see. So I'm sort of trolling, I know you asked the question, like what , from a prognostication standpoint, where do you think it's going? That's what I would like to see. Where I think it'll continue to go is I think more folks will continue to do , uh, podcasts and , um, the relative ease of use of it is, you know , insane. And I think like , if you're gonna have some type of analogy here, there are a lot of people who decided I'm going to start a Twitter account or Instagram and I'm going to become a social media influencer. And then it doesn't happen. But they don't necessarily totally give up on that platform because you're , I mean, you can survive with 64 followers. It doesn't cost you that much to stick around. And I think that the same thing will probably wind up being true with podcasts where you'll , you will have a lot of things that will stick around, not have that much traction but not necessarily go away. Uh , and I think to me it's interesting what you brought up because , uh, I think that you acknowledge the fact that you've got this bias, right? I think a lot of people, they , when they have a bias a and they're trying to figure out where things are gonna go, they're like, oh yeah, yeah, podcast is there . They're going to go, go, go, like big time. Trust me on that. And then I'm like, but how do you separate it from your bias? I mean, for you, when you're trying to figure out where this is going to go as a futurist of some sorts, right? Like how do you separate out what you want to happen versus what you expect to happen given the data? Well, I think, I think it comes down to , um, so Jeremy would know this, your, your, your listeners might not , uh, but I , I've spent 15 years as a media sales person , uh , radio, television, print out of home. There's literally not a medium I've not sold. And there's almost literally not a medium I've not produced for that matter. Cause I spent the first 10 years of my career in the production side, film, TV, a lot of radio. Um, the reality is, is that , um, when you are, if you're, if you're a sales person worth your salt , uh, you have to be a decent listener. Um, and even , even, even former people in my life would have called me a good listener. Uh, so , uh, I know that that's that. So you just, you listen, you follow you , you know, it's not even so much go where the money is cause there's not, there's, there's money in podcasting. Don't, don't, there's no two ways about that. But you follow , you follow where the audience is, what the, one of the things Joe Arthur says in his show, he , um, great story about him. He , he was the first American sign to Peter Gabriel's real world records , uh, signed by Peter Gabriel with Lou Reed in the , in the audience. The two of them struck up a over the years as well. This is what I mean, this is why it's a great show. I'm highly recommended. And so , um, one of the things that, that , uh, Peter told Joe, Peter Gabriel told, told Joe was go where the enthusiasm is. And so, you know, the , the massive benefit, and you know what I'm saying, this as a media professional, you know, not even from being , uh, you know , uh , you know, a host of content producer con, you know, whatever from, from a media sales perspective, you know, when I first started selling radio, they were still, you know, clinging to diaries that Arbitron sent out. You know, we have the data, we know how many people are listening and we don't know all of the data, but we have a lot of it, you know, like some s . So I'm sort of commingling answers here, but the reality is, is that when some of the gender data is there and one of the, some of the age data is there and the ability to target retarget , et Cetera with that data , when you, if you unbundle all of that and pull it from behind the sort of walled garden that I think the platforms keep it behind. When you let that loose, I think you're gonna see a lot more. And if you look and read and listen to that data, that's where that's how you , um, uh, mitigate those buying cs . Yay .

Speaker 4 16:19

You know, one thing that I was thinking about with this, and this, I don't have the answer specifically, but I would say think about it this way. If we have an autonomous vehicle future, you know, you've got to figure out when that's gonna happen. And then you've got to think, well, a lot of people are listening to audio as they are commuting because they have to have their eyes on the road. So what if you get to a point , uh , in the u s where nearly , uh , like virtually nobody has to keep their eye on the road. What does that do to audio? Is Audio just something that is inferior , uh , because it loses a benefit at that point if the whole point of audio was, yeah, but you can just listen to it. You don't have to be using your eyes. And what if all of a sudden you know that that's no longer an obstacle. And as a result, everybody just to get in their autonomous vehicle, they put on a VR headset because you don't want to talk to the person next to you in an Uber or God forbid, and , uh , and then you just go off into your own world. And I mean, I think we have a while to go before that point, but I would kind of expect that, you know, audio is a thing that we, you know, it relies on one sentence, right? And that is, it's a biggest benefit, but once we don't have to rely on that one sense , I think that that'll be a very different landscape.

André 17:33

Uh, I'm , I might generally agree, but I , as you are describing this, I'm thinking to myself as a, as a Manhattan night , um, I, I could be reading my, I could be watching my phone while I'm in the subway. I, I could be in, generally if I'm answering emails or texting folks or catching up on other things that I need to do, then I'm looking at my phone actively. If I'm in that car to listen, if I'm in that subway car to listen, I'm there to listen, you know, and , and, and maybe buttressing my earlier point. Imagine if you bring video into podcasting. Some have, you know , um, uh, many have in fact where they'll, you know, hey, you can get the same episode on Youtube as , as what we've got here in an apple

Speaker 4 18:22

podcasts. Yeah. And , and we've thought about turning this a video, but , um, I haven't really looked so good since, you know, a birth. So I think that that probably is something since birth. Your birth since my birth. Yeah. Um , that's been the rough, the rough period has been zero on. But yeah , I think that there's probably, you know, for some people you're right though, I wasn't sure if you meant the new kid or your new yeah, that's right. I did have a new kid on the block and yeah, I went from being the fourth most attractive person in my family to the fifth most attractive, so that's great. Um , but um, yeah, so no comment. No comment. So speaking of attractive this, no, actually there is no good transition off of that. I W I wanted to ask you though , uh , I saw some news recently cause we're gonna uh , get this out pretty soon. So this is still gonna be pretty recent. Someone news worthy , right. You know, so, so Spotify was talking about their, all their acquisition plans and they were planning to spend 500 million on acquisitions this year and they already acquired gimlet. Right. Which was a big move and a anchor and a true crime network. A Parcast for all of that was I think $400 million when you add all of it up. Wow . Do you think we're going to see more consolidation in the podcast world or will it be very much like Joe Schmoe in his living room just doing something , uh, you know, on the fly , uh, about his love for fly fishing? Yes,

André 19:53

I think we're going to see both. I , um , you know , uh, it , it, it goes back to that old adage, a content is king. And the brilliant thing about technology today is that you can marry content with context in a way that you could not , uh, prior to, you know, really 10, 12, 15 years ago and, you know, add that to portability, et cetera. So, back to your, you know, your actual question. I think that , um, investments like that content will continue. I mean, we at at USA Today , uh, are continuing to, you know, find different ways of putting our content out. Um , whether it's audio, whether it's, whether it's printed word. And when I say printed, I mostly referring to online. Um, you know, I think it's really gonna be a matter of, of , uh, figuring out again where the audience is and, and , uh, um, you know, it does, it goes back to the fact that content is king. And if you, if you follow that content,

Speaker 4 20:59

do you make it? They will come. I mean, yeah , if you have great content, then you're right. It doesn't matter where you're at. You can be Mark Marron and a base , uh , whatever it is, garage in California. And people will , uh, not saying he doesn't have good content, but he just basically was very bare bones in terms of how he sets started at all .

André 21:16

Yeah, I mean, and, and in fairness , um, he, he was starting his, his starting block was a lot further along than me and my music show seven years ago. You know, I knew a few people. I , I, over my career in media, I've met a handful of celebrities. Maybe a few of them might follow me on Twitter or Instagram or whatever. Um, and some of them might like my content, but Mark Marin has been a professional comic and writer for 25, 30 years or longer now. So his starting point was a little further along than mine. And most, you know, going back to your illustration around, you know, a , is Spotify, is Spotify looking for the next solo dude or Dudette to do a podcast ? Probably not. Are they going to buy a network? Are they going to continue to buy, you know, networks of shows or content that are bundled? Yeah. Well , it's interesting because I ,

Speaker 4 22:13

I've heard a lot of backlash recently about this whole celebrity and influencer driven podcast culture where now, you know, you have people who, not talking about people who have become big because of podcasts, but somebody who built a following elsewhere and then they say, I started a podcast and it might , uh, objectively not have the best, you know , quality, but they already have a built in following and therefore it's theirs to lose. Uh, and I mean, do you think that, would you expect to see more of that or will the backlash against that? Well , will the cream truly rise to the top or will the people with the built in followings wind up , uh, actually discouraging, you know , uh, people , it's kind of like, almost like people like Matt Damon having, having an Indeigogo account and like, was that what that was necessarily made for? Right.

André 23:03

Um, I think that what will happen is the celebrity driven stuff will drive sponsors will drive. Um, you know, because , um, you know , uh, Mark Marin , I'm trying to think of some of the other examples you, you had highlighted in or that were highlighted of late mark Marin is one celebrities , uh, and obviously Alec Baldwin, this thing has been around for almost 10 years now. Uh, and that's produced through WDN YC , uh, in that light. And that's a bit of a different beast because it's affiliated with public broadcasting , uh, W NYC here in New York, et cetera. So it's a, a bit of a different beast. Um, but I think that those, those shows that are sort of, you know, th th th the person who wants to , um, focus on a supreme niche , uh, might gain some traction. You know, my, my music show has gained traction with people , uh , around the world because, you know, jazz and swing, you know , uh, resonates with people all over the world. I look at, I look at my downloads , uh, regionally, when I say regionally, I mean country by country , uh, France and I happen to have a fair amount of friends in Ireland. They listen to the show Australia, but then looking at the state by state breakdowns.

Speaker 4 24:30

Do you ever , by the way, a lot of people in Greenland you would think, but no, because I heard that , um , that's going to , they're actually switching that over soon. So it's going to be, you know, a 51st date . Yeah, exactly. So it's going to be , um , uh , so, so that might impact your downloads on a country by country basis. I just want you to get a brace myself for that. Yeah.

André 24:51

So when I go to my sponsors, I have no sponsors by the way. Uh , anyway. But yeah, I, I , I don't, I think the, to your actual question, the, you know, just because you're a celebrity doesn't mean you're doing, you're going to do a great podcast, right? Uh, if you're passionate about what your , what your subject matter is, chances are you're going to do a better one. Um, having spent 10 years at places like NPR, CBS News , um, my first job eyes still speak glowingly of my first job in the real world that the Christian Science Monitor Monitor radio, which was carrying on public radio stations around the u s and overseas via , um , shortwave radio. If the kids remember shortwave radio,

Speaker 4 25:37

don't, by the way, I'll put it in the show notes.

André 25:39

I, I had a conversation with someone in my office who doesn't, who did not know who Dan rather was recently. And I thought that was kind of an eye opening sort of thing. You know, somebody in their twenties,

Speaker 4 25:53

it was awkward. I had a conversation with somebody, they didn't know who Dan rather was. And it turned out I was, I was speaking to Dan rather the frequency. Kenneth, sorry. Um, well we'll have to put that in the notes also, by the way, Andre is not 80, despite some of these references. Uh, but yeah, so actually it's interesting that you're bringing up kind of like the built in audience for an influencer or a celebrity. And I think that really what in a lot of ways what we're talking about is just like those people are, they have a certain platform built in wherever they go. The same thing is true. It's kind of , it's kind of like if you wanted to have a , uh , video channel on the Internet and you decided not to put it on youtube but will good luck to you because youtube is the platform that, and uh, try to have a great podcast and not put it in, you know, the apple , uh, podcast , uh , sure . Like if you have it not available through that or Stitcher, whatever, you know, good luck trying to actually, so a lot of it is really like a pat , uh , platform play. I would say platform, platform play. Try to say that I was there , not a band called platform play. I think there probably is actually. They're playing , uh , uh , yeah . Arlene's some platform somewhere. Yeah. So , uh, but yeah, and, and I think one of the other , uh, questions I wanted to ask you though is about , uh, any type of, you know, like how can podcasts ultimately be valuable to brands, right? Because we have a lot of Cmos, CDO types that are listening to this and they're wondering how they can get involved and is it even beneficial? I mean, or should they basically just be listening to podcast to understand the zeitgeists and where things are now? Or should they be listening to it and say, hey, maybe we could create a branded podcast or maybe we should be an advertiser on a number of different shows. Right ? I mean, like a me undies or , uh , I don't know. There are a few. The cash app, it's about your undies or ZipRecruiter, you know , all of these different guys who you hear so often. And it's clearly, that's one way that people are leveraging podcasts. But I mean, there's so many different ways I feel like for brands to get involved. And in part, given that you've been helping and advising brands, you know, for, you know, a kajillion years at this point, what would you,

André 28:09

you just told people I'm not 80 and now you just said I'm a kajillion . Yeah ,

Speaker 4 28:14

I didn't say which. I didn't say. I didn't say you were younger than 18 .

André 28:19

I am younger than 80. I swear to God I'm younger than 80 . Um, the, the answer to me is yes, brand should cut. It's a couple fold, couple fold, right? W uh , which sounds kinky but it's not a couple fold. Right? One is yes, brands should and any brand that is doing spot buying , uh , for radio and or TV, depending on how they're executing , uh, should consider doing podcasts either either audio or video and or video. Uh, that's uh , that's a given. Uh, in other words, if they're, if they're spending money , uh, on, especially network radio, local or regional radio doesn't make a whole lot of sense cause you still can't parse out , uh, for the , uh, for the folks at home. You can't segment those audiences like apple podcast, this , this might from a future. Not to go back here , uh, into, to answer one of your questions, but a buddy of mine 20 years ago and Austin, Texas was involved in a startup that was doing addressable ads in taxi cabs, right? 20 years ago. It was a startup . I can't remember the name of it, but the idea was wherever you were, the most relevant content , uh, from an ad perspective would run. And I thought about it even then, I was like, man, there's a whole lot of variables that would have to go in to that. Um, in this scenario, like, yeah , apple and the other companies who were involved in and podcast distribution, they don't know how to yet. I think, I think this is actually a potentially a big thing. They don't know how to yet segment either regionally or city or even down to zip code where someone is that, you know, we're sitting here on the upper east side of Manhattan. Um, and there's no reason that someone who's buying a , a radio time on 10, 10 wins or cvs am or any of the radio stations here in the New York market. There's no reason that those advertisers shouldn't also be on a podcast that is maybe international in scope, but because they know I'm where I am would be able to run a spot that's, you know, related to me. I'm thinking around the corner after this, I'm heading to fairway, which is the reason we even bloody know each other. That's true. Uh, so it's, it's literally full circle. Thank God for fairway. Thank God for fairway saying you got to hit them up for a sponsorship. If I didn't , uh , if I didn't love Radicchio so, so much, we wouldn't be sitting here right now or you wouldn't be, I said third time. I've heard that today. If I didn't love Radicchio so much anyway , uh, we, we, I think that actually is a, is a, is a point of expansion , uh, for podcast. The ability to drive hyper-local audio into, I don't know how they would do it. Uh , I'm not a geo location person per se. Uh, talk to my buddy Aaron Strout about that. He's the location dude. He knows so much about how do I know that name? Uh, cause he's the geolocation dude. He, that's where he made his bones about 10 years ago. He wrote a book about, he wrote one of the dummies books about locations. Don't quote me on it being a dummies book, but I think it was a y , you know , something like why location matters and how brands could target. Because I think, you know, you really bring up a really important point there, which is that when you, when it comes to like if there's money involved in it, the technology to track the analytics, all of that stuff will get better. Right ? When there's a will, there's a way, especially when something can be monetized this way. Totally. And um, I'm shocked that some of the folks who are at the helm of these things aren't, you know, so many of them say, well, podcasts are free. There's a way to monetize this stuff in. The fact that they haven't jumped to a sooner is astounding. And that that, yeah, yeah. I mean, and , and one of the things that I noticed, and this is why I think that it , we're all about capturing attention. Yeah. And the Nice thing, what I've noticed honestly

Speaker 4 32:40

is that , uh , when I have somebody on my show, I , I've noticed like we have a lot of people who listen the whole , whole way through. Maybe not this episode, but uh , yeah. But often people will get, you know, most of the way through the entire way through and , and I do certain things because I'll often have like a call back and I'll say, hey, if you , uh, you know, heard this, like please chime in on Twitter, whatever. And then I'll get people, and it's a way of like finding out, it's a little hack to be, oh they were listening at the 27 minute mark and things like that.

André 33:11

So two, two things I want to, I am going to go back and fully answer your question about brands and podcasts, but the f, the first thing that I really want folks to understand is that, and to your point, people are listening. I did a quick Facebook live about two weeks ago. I'm just walking down the street saying, Hey, I just came from this great event, blah, blah, blah. And people who run that event , uh, got two inquiries from mine , little Facebook live about their networking group. Uh,

Speaker 4 33:42

I saw that live go up and I didn't watch it and I was like, what? What is this? He's just like walking on the street, right? Yeah. I think it was getting off of a plane or something. And then I'm like, I'll watch this later and got busy. But it's very, it's very rare that I sit in

André 33:55

down to do those. A , I really probably should, but I'm always on the go.

Speaker 4 33:59

Yeah. I don't want to like get a seizure by like movement Washington goes . But actually

André 34:03

one of those, a , a , a buddy of mine, a former manager , uh, told me he was like, you need one of those handles, one of those, you know , um , gyro sticks or whatever it's called. Uh ,

Speaker 4 34:13

I believe they're called heroes and they're Greek , uh , sandwiches. Yeah. So I actually the , and I know we have to let you go soon. I know you have a few other, a podcast recording tonight. Uh, but yeah, I mean I wanted to just kind of like wrap up by just asking you how, you know, like there's so many different ways that people can get involved in the podcasting world from a business perspective. I mean, have you seen any type of success for brands? Not just, you know , saying, well I want to get involved as an advertiser, but creating branded content and also a part two is do you think that the brands of tomorrow are going to be, is this going to be a media planning activity that they're going to like they, do they need to have this person in house who understands the world of podcasts who can develop that strategy? Or are they gonna just rely on their media agency and say like, you guys , you guys go do it. We don't know anything about it. You know , um , we don't know how to download a podcast, go to it

André 35:12

20 years ago everyone would just go make a, and we need a website get make as a website. Is that, I think some of that is already happening where people are saying we need some sort of audio presence, whether it's a podcast or whatever. Um, I think whether it's agencies, whether it's client in house, et Cetera, I think it's an imperative that audio be part of that mix. Whether is, and I think going back to my earlier point, I think spot buying makes a lot of sense within podcasts , especially if you're a national or international brand. I think , um, especially if you're already doing audio , um , yeah , work to begin. If you're , in other words, if you're buying spots on a national or international basis, you need to be doing a podcast. Um, and, and in doing insertions within podcasts , if you are a brand and you've got some cool bits of conversation around your brand , um, you know, whether it's a, a Pharma brand, whether it's a fashion brand , um, I'm trying to think, you know, my predisposition is music. Uh, I think, I think a record labels is small, medium and large would do really, really well to have , um, a podcast . It's astounding that there's not a greater presence. Uh, my friends at vinyl me please , uh, they, their earliest version of this was doing , um, a Spotify playlist . And so there's no reason that they can't do that and do more with it to try to engage folks. So there are a ton of different ways. Uh , I think, I do think audio needs to be, and it can't just be podcast . Um, but I think audio has to be a part of the mix within any agency or in house agency or ,

Jeremy 37:03

yeah. And I totally agree with that. And a , Hey , so I thank you so much for making the time. Really appreciate it. Entree . I think this was a, yeah, this was terrific. And thank you guys so much for , uh , listening as always. Uh , be sure I, you guys know this by now, but be sure to rate, review, subscribe, basically do all of the things. Uh , tell everybody who , who, you know, your friends , uh, family , uh, loved ones , worst enemies. Actually don't tell them we want you to be smarter than them and have a competitive advantage. But tell everybody about this show , uh, cause all of the support has really helped us continue to grow over the last few months. Uh, and you guys are the best. And once again, I'm Jeremy Goldman and you've been listening to future proof.

Speaker 5 37:58

[inaudible] .