Finding Hope Behind Bars: A Journey Through the Alabama Prison System

Ever wondered how a simple twist of faith could alter the course of life within the prison walls? This episode of our podcast series will take you on an emotional journey through the Alabama prison system, focusing on my personal experiences as an inmate. We unravel the reality of entering prison, the dread of a potential Life Without Parole sentence, and the profound moment that ignited my salvation. 

The episode reveals the startling contrast between the different inmate populations within the Alabama prison system, each having their unique challenges and an apparent lack of resources. Yet, amidst such despair, we explore the miraculous power of faith, which becomes a beacon of hope in the gloomy ambiance. My French pen pals, Patrick and Joanne Quillec, illustrate this beautifully through their unwavering faith and the biblical story of Joseph. 

In a remarkable stroke of grace, my former public defender's expertise dramatically reduced my sentence. It was like a curse lifting, showing that hope and freedom could be found even within the concrete confines of prison. We also ponder over the idea of how God can re-route us when we miss a turn, just like a GPS. Teasing our next episode, we will be discussing the prison chapel dorm, the fascinating people I met there, and intriguing insights on Christianity and religion.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:02

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to season two, episode three of the Straight Out of Prison podcast. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:12

And I am Hailey Jones, and this is his story. That has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:17

So in the last episode we went through the you know the process of coming back to sweet home, Alabama, facing time in Montgomery County jail and then my unlikely encounter with Jesus and getting saved.

Speaker 2: 5:36

Yeah, after coming off the highest of high, thinking you were going to get bailed out, and then the lowest of low, finding out no way, jose. And then yeah you got saved, and then you were still looking at some pretty hefty time 10 years and some other charges and other places but your mind, your head, was in a good place.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Yeah, no, I was actually looking at like three 20 year sentences, but then I ended up getting a 10 year sentence with time served. So with time served, I would already done like almost four years. So, depending on the Alabama good time like I had no idea how their good time worked Depending on that I could be home. You know, in less than a year in my mind I had something that changed on the inside of me and it's like my mom and my granny and you know people are like you should be a little more concerned and worried and I was like I'm not, I'm good, like God has a plan for my life and you'll see. You don't, just don't understand.

Speaker 2: 6:32

So it just shows that everything's relative, because I think you said last time you said you were headed off to prison and you are excited about it because you were coming out of the jail.

Speaker 1: 6:43

But, like.

Speaker 2: 6:44

In what world would I ever say I'm going to prison and I'm excited about it?

Speaker 1: 6:49

Well, you're excited. You're excited to be getting out of jail. Jail was rough. I mean especially jail in Alabama. You know, if you're going to get in trouble, go do it and somewhere else, don't do it in Alabama. Alabama is rough, but it was fall of 1996. I was full of faith and hope and expectancy and I just felt like you know, my life has changed, I'm better and I was headed off to Kilby.

Speaker 2: 7:15

Kilby is the name of the prison.

Speaker 1: 7:18

Well, no, when I went to prison in Florida. It is a prison, but we talked about. The reception center I went to in Florida was Lake Butler.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Oh, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 7:28

So Kilby is the Alabama version of Lake Butler. The only difference is in Florida they had three reception centers north, central and south and in Alabama they only have one. So basically, the state of Florida incarcerates a whole lot more people, but they they take their stuff a little bit more serious too. So it was the same as that. I didn't have the kind of fear that I had going the first time, because I felt like I'd already been through that and also had had heard. You know, kilby is not that big a deal so long as you're doing what you need to do.

Speaker 2: 8:00

So so was that true? You got there.

Speaker 1: 8:03

I think the first thing that struck me about Kilby was it was like some kind of a weird like com work. Like this was 1996 and it was almost like it took me back to when I was a little kid in the 70s, when we would travel from Atlanta to Phoenix City, alabama. It was before they didn't have the interstate system built there yet. Like you couldn't travel from Atlanta, phoenix City on an interstate, so you would just be so aggravated with the long trip you know, especially as a little kid, and you'd finally get there and it'll be like we're here and all you would see is like red dirt and steel and cotton mills and because that was, you know, that was basically what it was. There was something about that when we put up at Kilby that reminded me of going to Phoenix City as a little kid. Like we're not in like the present time anymore, we're going back, you know, at least 50 years, but it looked like that a lot of red dirt, steel.

Speaker 2: 9:00

Was that like the Wizard of Oz? We're not in Kansas anymore, not in Kansas anymore.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Yeah, so, but it was. It was kind of like that, and then it wasn't as scary as Lake Butler had been, but it was the same process. They take you in there, they, you know, take all your clothes, looking all your crevices and make you bend over and all.

Speaker 2: 9:21

That's the worst part. It sounds like to me.

Speaker 1: 9:24

It is, but you get, you get used to it. I mean, it's what they do. They do that quite a bit. Then they shave your head, make you make sure you shave really good. I remember the first thing I noticed was like they had like a weird, like like a straight not a straight razor but a razor that was like a razor blade stuck on the end of a pole. I was like what, how do you shave with this? Like I'd never seen. I'd never seen.

Speaker 2: 9:46

Why was it stuck to the end of a pole?

Speaker 1: 9:48

No, it was like an old time in like fifties, man's razor was like one of those big, thick razor blades that you screwed onto the top and then you had to figure out how to shave with it. It wasn't like a disposable razor or anything that you know that I was ever used to and you know 80, late 80s when I started shaving and I remember it cut my face up pretty bad. I did not use it. Then they shave your head. You know, take your picture, do all that stuff. And then here they threw like the powder stuff on us to make sure that bugs and you go through all that.

Speaker 1: 10:19

But it was just much quicker, easier. They weren't. It was like they weren't trying to humiliate you, like they were at Lake Butler, they were just trying to get you through. So they fill you up. One of the major differences I guess that I noted was in Florida we wore blue uniforms and in Alabama everything was white and there's something about the white that felt a little more. I don't know if it was clean or you probably thought it felt more clean.

Speaker 1: 10:46

Well now the material felt like it was like softer, like cotton. The ones in Florida, they were like rough, like rough fabric. But anyways, they processed us in, we got in. They put you in an orientation dorm, same as they did in Florida. Again, I was just everywhere. I went at Kielby those first couple of days I felt like I was like in a movie, but it was a movie that was from like when Ronald Reagan was acting Like it was not anything, there was nothing modern, everything was like old and decrepit and just like I don't know. It was just like a time warp. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, so we got through that part. They do the same thing at Kielby. They did at Lake Butler. You know, they give you tests and they physical, mental, all the things, and then they classify you.

Speaker 2: 11:37

So what is the men? What does a mental test look like? Like you get.

Speaker 1: 11:42

I mean, they're all kind of like bogus, but they do like just to test your aptitude, make sure you can spell, read and write. Then there's like some psychological stuff you have to go through to make sure, like, I guess, to make sure you're not crazy, because they have a place, crazy people and then they ask you just a battery of questions and they put you through just a process of to classify. Classification means that you're here, you're going to prison, we've got to classify you so we know where to send you. Okay, so you know, there's 1520 camps in Alabama, there's like 6070 in Florida, so they have to figure out how to go about that. In Florida I was classified as youthful offender, so that kind of narrowed it for me. In Alabama I was not classified as that. They have me classified as a violent criminal.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: 12:34

So I was classified to go to a max camp and there are three max camps in Alabama. One is West Jefferson, which is Donaldson correctional facility, one is St Clair, which is right above Birmingham, and then there's one down south is at more, and that's where they actually people have deaf sentences, that's where they kill them. Yes, so I was going to one of those three places.

Speaker 2: 12:56

So where did you go?

Speaker 1: 12:58

Well or get sent. Well, they classified me to go to St Clair, so that was what they told me. I was going to St Clair, so I got through that process. It lasted two or three days and they, while you're at Kielby, they keep you there until you go to your permanent camp.

Speaker 2: 13:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:13

And then, if you're lucky, you get tapped to be a permanent party at Kielby. Basically, you serve your time at Kielby but you're working like in the laundry and the kitchen or in classification or something, helping other guys coming through there and that was like later on.

Speaker 1: 13:28

I would pray I could get like permanent party at Kielby, but obviously I did not. But they put us out in. There was like four or five dorms. There was one, the one that I got assigned to. From the outside it looked like a Sam's Club or Costco. It was humongous. And on the inside it looked like it looked the same. It looked like like we're in the middle of Sam's, but just with bunks instead of instead of rows of merchandise. And I was, I wasn't really scared. I mean, I didn't know anybody. You know I've been conditioned to how to handle myself in prison and it just didn't seem like it was going to be that difficult.

Speaker 1: 14:11

I remember they gave us jackets and in Florida they get. The jackets they gave us were like real jackets. These jackets they gave us were like made out of like pillowcases or something, so they were like it was just weird. The whole thing was just weird. I settled in, you know, unpack my stuff and probably the biggest thing I got excited about was they had popcorn. And I know that sounds crazy, but like when you go years and years without something, like I hadn't seen popcorn in like four years by this time, and they sew, like the little microwave bags of popcorn on the store, on the commissary, and then you could put in the microwave and you could have popcorn. And you could smell it everywhere. Everybody was popping corn, eating popcorn and I was just so excited for that popcorn, the best popcorn ever. And then I think I was there a day, maybe two days, not much longer than two days, and they came to me in the middle of the day and they said you know it, make Jones pack it up, you're going to lockdown.

Speaker 1: 15:11

And so yeah, that's what they don't really. When they tell you to pack your stuff, you just pack your stuff. They don't really, they don't have to tell you anything. But Alabama's a little more like they would try to talk to you a little bit more because they're trying to keep riots and stuff down, whereas in Florida they would just tell you shut up. So I was. I was like locked down, like I didn't, I haven't done it, like am I in trouble? I haven't done anything.

Speaker 1: 15:34

And they said, well, coming up here, the sergeant explained it to you. So we got packed up my stuff and you know I'm walking through the camp thinking I didn't do anything wrong. So this is some kind of mistake. Yeah, I mean, I've only been here for two days, three days by that time, or a week, I can't remember. I'd only been in general population for two days or a day and a half, something like that. So I was just confident that they made some kind of a mistake. You know they had the wrong guy, wrong name. And we walk up there and they're telling me the sergeant looks at me and says we're putting you in the lockdown, where they put the people with the life, without parole sentences.

Speaker 1: 17:38

So I was like I don't have no life without parole sentence. I'm only guy, I've got a 10 year sentence. That's all I got. And he said well, the DA in Shelby County, you have a pending case there and he is seeking life without parole against you. So that changes your classification. We have to put you in special population. And I think I almost passed out like Life without parole, like what is it? I mean, I don't even know what that for, for what does that mean? And then he explained, like the three strikes law I don't know if you're familiar with that. It was a Well, most recently, like in 2020, that they reversed all that stuff just in 2020.

Speaker 1: 18:18

Well, maybe it was like the last cup, I mean last couple years yeah so what?

Speaker 2: 18:23

what is it?

Speaker 1: 18:24

It was the Bill Clinton Joe Biden crime bill they came up with in the 90s was basically If you commit three felonies then you get a life without parole sentence. So three, it was called three, no matter what. Three strikes You're out, three strikes You're out Wow. And you know I would see that later on the effects of that like. I knew a guy, mr Johnny was an old black man and he had a life without parole sentence For stealing a toolbox off the back of a truck because he had two priors. They gave who's from a bill and they gave him life for that parole. And when I met him he'd been locked up. Forget how long, but just the is that upsetting to you?

Speaker 2: 19:06

Yes, I mean, I can almost like see you getting upset just talking about that or saying, talking about Johnny, I guess well, no, I love mr Johnny he's a good guy he was.

Speaker 1: 19:15

No, he was older, older black guy and I Think eventually he did. They did something to help him. But just the you know the mere fact of having that on you.

Speaker 2: 19:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:28

I'm gonna die in prison Because I stole the toolbox off the back of a truck. You know, I mean and not not that he was not wrong, he was committing a crime. But like the, that kind of a sentence don't fit that kind of crime. Yeah, so but for me, my, my charges were on robbery, so it actually did fit mine right because they were trying to keep that off the I guess off the streets, yeah. So I Didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2: 19:59

Okay, so really quick. You said they were sending you to lock down. And then special population. You may have said this before, but what exactly really quick was, is special population.

Speaker 1: 20:10

So a special population is you have, like, people that have a death sentence.

Speaker 1: 20:14

Okay and I had never seen things like this in Florida. I was just a youthful fender, but I remember my first or second day at QB. They cleared the halls and when they clear the hall they just holler at you to get out of the way. Like you have to go in a door or whatever to get out of the hall. Uh-huh, and they were bringing a guy down that had so many chains on him. I'd never seen anything like that. But he like rattled when he walked and then some of the inmates were yelling out dead man walking and it scared me and so I asked somebody like what are they talking about? And they were like, oh, he's got a death sentence, like they're taking him to death row. And I was just like, well, isn't that mean to be?

Speaker 1: 20:51

like it's awful like to be hauling that hauling, hauling dead man walking out. Why don't we do that like this? That's not funny. But so that was one classification. Another, the second classification in Alabama was life without parole. Because there's we have a lot of people in our Alabama prisons that are since the life without parole, and when you're since the life without parole you have your, your ais number and then has X on the end. So the X on the end just means you're dead.

Speaker 2: 21:22

It means you're not coming out of prison before you die.

Speaker 1: 21:25

No, you have to die in prison. Yeah, so there are people with life, so that get out in 20 years, those two types of people that you just described.

Speaker 2: 21:33

Are there people that go to this special population?

Speaker 1: 21:35

special put. Then you have there's other special population. There's sex offenders. It's hard to keep sex offenders in general population because they kill them. And then anybody that was former law enforcement or I Think, like attorneys, certain kind of attorneys and law enforcement, their special population. Because again, you know, if they let them out in general population, you know somebody finds out then they'll kill them. So their special population. But my special population was QB, was actually a medium security camp and because they had put that life without parole stipulation on me, that made me like a max. I'm a Mac, my security it goes to maximum. So they have to. They lock you down. You just have to stay locked down.

Speaker 2: 22:19

You just Figured out so basically they were putting in X at the end like you were gonna die in prison bottom line.

Speaker 1: 22:27

Well, they know you have to be sentenced by a judge for that.

Speaker 2: 22:29

Okay but he was trying to do that. The judge was trying to not the judge, the district attorney.

Speaker 1: 22:35

The district attorney so I had a case in Shelby County that I had already gotten started. I had my Prison sentence and all the stuff in Florida that I completed is that for the probation. Then I got a tenure, two tenure sentences, rank and current in Montgomery and then I had an outstanding case in Shelby County which I had already, you know, got the process rolling on that. But when the DA saw my priors he it was real popular in the 90s, like if you have somebody that's Commenced multiple crimes to put that on them. I mean it was popular all over the United States. But I think one of the one of the things happened with that is what turned us into a prison state. Because they have to. They locked up so many people.

Speaker 2: 23:19

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 23:19

I mean it's, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 23:21

Okay, so back to they came and got you, told you you were going to lock down because you're going to special population, because the DA had said Requested life without parole.

Speaker 1: 23:33

Yes, that's what he was seeking.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Okay so from there. So I didn't know what to do. It was like a shock and then Like just trying to figure it out. But then when they walk you back there, it's like it's right in the middle of the camp there and it's this long, skinny row of just Sales with white bars and the sales were very small. It was like a. There was like a bunk, like a, like a bunk where you put your mat and then right next to it there's a toilet and a sink and then that's the width of the cell and then there's a little table at the end of the bed and then everything else is just bars and You're basically it's 24 hour lockdown.

Speaker 1: 24:15

They let you out like three times a week in handcuffs to go take a shower. You can't even go out and use the phone. They actually bring the phones to you. So just the fact of being there was one thing. But then, like I was like Three-quarters of the way down, so there's probably like 25 cells there Just walking by and looking in and seeing the people, and it was just like it just reeked of, like hopelessness and and you know nothing good like it, and More than like seeing the conditions of like the little sardine cannon they were gonna put me in Was like seeing the look in people's eyes. It was like a dead look.

Speaker 1: 24:56

Oh hi like hey, I'm dead. Oh look, here comes another one, he's dead too. Kind of this is kind of how depressing. Oh god, it was the. I mean, I've never seen anything like that on earth.

Speaker 2: 25:09

So I mean, were you scared because you came from such a place of hope and then to find out this and to see these People and the looks in their eyes, I mean it was very sobering and I was scared.

Speaker 1: 25:22

But at the same time I just like I Couldn't the first day, I couldn't process it in my mind like this ain't this ain't happening to me. But then you know, you get in there, you don't have anything to do, there's no like TV, there's nothing to do except for like read, write letters and listen to radio. And it was like there was an unmistakable you know whatever had changed with me on the inside of me. You know, I guess that had been like four or five months before that In the Montgomery County Jail. It had not left me. So Jesus was with me, I mean, and it was. There was no denying like his. His presence was with me. But it was so hard to like believe in that and then have your eyes and your ears and everything you see. What you see is not that. That makes sense.

Speaker 1: 26:15

Yeah, like nothing around you so what I saw was was like death like this is these people are trying to kill me and I mean they weren't trying to like give me a death sentence, but basically, if you get an X behind your number, that's a death sentence. Like you ain't going nowhere, there's no, nothing for you, just Figured out. I can't imagine. Well, now, later on, I would meet a lot of guys Like that, but at this time I didn't really. I'd never been exposed to anything like that. I think when I was in prison in Florida, I knew I got had 20 years. That was the most I'd ever even heard of like I never. This was just for me. It was just like a cold, harsh Splash back into reality.

Speaker 1: 26:57

And then, you know, I call my mom and like the way her response to it was, you know, she was, of course, you know freaked out and crying and screaming and doing all the things, but then it was like something she said to me. It's almost like when you're down, like the people that are closest to you can get at you the worst, and she wasn't saying this like to come at me, or you know, she's my mom was for me, you know what I'm saying, but she just was like confused and she basically said seems like when you didn't pray and do all this Jesus stuff, everything was better for you. Like ever since you started all this praying and Jesus stuff, like everything just seems like it's just getting worse. And I was, you know like, hmm, you know that?

Speaker 2: 27:51

things that make you go, hmm.

Speaker 1: 27:52

No, I mean, but it was, it was kind of like, hmm, but you know, later on I would look at that and here's what I know. I would have never gotten through that without Jesus. Like I know that on this side, like especially some of the things that would come after that, I never would have made it through it without him. But it it was rough. I mean, that was, I was in a rough place and I, you know, I thought like I'd been in rough places before, but this was a new level. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 28:25

Yeah, so how long were you in lockdown?

Speaker 1: 28:28

Well, I would be there until I got my sentence and then they sent me to my camp. So once they put that on you, you're in there for the long haul and that could be a year, it could be months, it could be, it could be whatever. And there was no again. This was like county jail is you're locked up in a pod, but this is. You literally have like a 10 foot by four foot space that you're confined, like you can. I could stand up in the middle of that cell and put my arms out, and I couldn't put. I couldn't just touch the wall, I couldn't even touch the walls. It was so. It was just a narrow, it was like a coffin, almost Like this was. They got me I'm dead.

Speaker 1: 29:12

But in my shock, I mean I was in shock, but I decided you know, whatever the God has started with me, I'm just going to choose to. I got nothing else to do. I mean I don't have. I don't have nothing else and there was nothing I could see in front of me that gave me hope. But the, his presence was there. I had my Bible. His presence was real.

Speaker 1: 29:36

And then I felt like you know, the little, like the steel small voice was just like I just need you to keep trusting me, I just need you to keep believing and I promise you this is going to make sense. And I was like, oh, he's telling me it's going to make sense because I'm going to be in prison for the rest of my life. So, you know, just trying to figure it out, figured out, and I didn't have anybody ask questions to like I couldn't. My family was so devastated by this, like I didn't have anybody to say what's happening. I mean, I don't know, I don't know, how does, how does this, how is this happening? I had Jesus to talk to, and then I had my friends Patrick and Joanne Quillac, you know the chef that I worked for.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Oh, the French chef.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah, so we had stayed in constant contact. They were like my pen pals the whole time I was gone and then, after I came to faith in Jesus, like they became like my biggest.

Speaker 2: 30:30

So y'all are writing back and forth letters?

Speaker 1: 30:33

Yeah, and they would send me books and stuff. But so I wrote them a letter and I was actually like I don't want to like write them letters to worry on, but like I need some hands. Like how could this happen to me? Like, and now I'm, I've given my life to Jesus and now they're telling me they're gonna lock me up forever. So like I needed I just I was confused and I needed, like I needed some answers. Like I didn't know, I didn't know where to navigate or what to do. And I wrote them a letter and I think I got the letter back from them like two days later. Like they wrote me right back.

Speaker 2: 31:09

Wow.

Speaker 1: 31:10

And she. It was the letter. There was a short note from Patrick, and then Joanne wrote me a long letter and Joanne is Patrick's wife.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Yes, okay, and she was just as like talking about her like faith journey, like they had like seven or eight kids and she had like five kids before she ever came into a relationship with Jesus and it was like she never had any problems. And then the one child that she was pregnant with or gave birth to after, you know, she had a had an experience with Jesus. She was some, some church or something where she went to told her, you know, believe for supernatural childbirth and do all these formula prayers and all the stuff, and so she was trying to do what they were telling her to do, but she ended up having complications and almost I don't remember the details, but it was a very rough birth that she gave and she was so confused by that like, well, you know, it's always been so easy to have babies and now, you know, I'm doing all the formulas that they're giving me. But she said she realized through that was that God is sovereign and you know, we just have to trust him and not try to take matters into our own hands.

Speaker 1: 32:24

It was basically what she said. And then she said you remind me, this reminds me of the story of Joseph in the Old Testament. You're like Joseph. And she said I encourage you to go find that and read it and ask God to open up some revelation for you. In that and up to that time I've been reading the Bible, but I was pretty much camping out in the book of Proverbs, you know, reading what Jesus said. I didn't really care about all the other stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:52

Give me another word for revelation, she said. She said to ask God to give you some revelation.

Speaker 1: 32:57

Like to reveal something to you, like she was hearing from God for me.

Speaker 2: 33:02

To show you something.

Speaker 1: 33:03

Yeah, to show me something from that story. And so I went back and you know, I immediately like cracked up in my book of Genesis and went through and found the story of Joseph and it was basically he was the son of Jacob. You know, in the Old Testament there was Abraham, isaac and Jacob, and then Jacob became Israel and then Israel had 12 sons and they became the 12 tribes Israel.

Speaker 2: 33:28

Hey, let's stick with.

Speaker 1: 33:29

Joseph. So Joseph was the number 11 son.

Speaker 2: 33:32

Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 33:33

But see, I didn't understand all this at the time. I was just reading the story.

Speaker 2: 33:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:37

So in the story he his daddy loved him apparently more than the others and he was a dreamer, and so he believed that he was special and that God had something great for his life, and he went out and told everybody about it. So he got himself in trouble. So first off he was already daddy's favorite, and then his daddy made him like a rainbow robe or something that made everybody mad at him because he had special clothes.

Speaker 2: 34:06

Then the coat of many colors.

Speaker 1: 34:09

Yeah, it was yeah. So he had a dream and he told his brothers I had a dream last night. You know we was out gathering up weed or some kind of grain in the field and you know we had all our sheaves together and all y'all she's bowed down and worshiped my sheave and that's a sheave.

Speaker 1: 34:28

It's like a thing that they like roll up wheat and then roll around it. Okay, like a holder, okay, and all y'all is bowed down to me. And so then they got mad, like who do you think you are, you little brat, you know?

Speaker 2: 34:42

Is that what they said? We're not gonna.

Speaker 1: 34:44

I mean, I'm paraphrasing.

Speaker 2: 34:45

I know, I know.

Speaker 1: 34:47

We're not. We're not gonna worship you, you ain't, you ain't nobody we're. You know they didn't like him.

Speaker 2: 34:52

Yeah, I mean, that does come off as kind of cocky.

Speaker 1: 34:55

But then he kept having these dreams. So then you know, then later on he had a dream where he told all of them he was like, yeah, all the 11 stars and the sun and moon bow down to me, to my star. And so his dad was like son, what are you saying? You think you're me and your mother are gonna bow down to him, like you're some kind of king or something like that. And but he was like 16, 17,. He didn't know who was just popping his mouth off. But then his brothers couldn't stand him. And then apparently that he, his dad, was sent out the 10 brothers, because he had a younger brother too. Benjamin would send out the 10 brothers out to do all the work, and then he would stay home with mama and daddy, and then, but he would send him, he would send Joseph out to check on him and come tell me what your brothers are doing. Does that make sense? Like the spy on them.

Speaker 2: 35:44

Well, yeah, just a check up on go go, but in the Bible it say go give me a report of what they're doing.

Speaker 1: 35:49

But basically that means go see what they're doing and go snitch on them, come back and tell me so this one day. They're out in the field, they're working, and they saw him coming. And my thing, I thought the reason they saw him coming was because he had on his rainbow, his rainbow coat, so they knew he was coming. And then they they were like we just need to get rid of this little punk kid. You know, we just need to. We're tired of him, who happens to be a brother yeah well, he was actually their half brother.

Speaker 1: 36:17

Okay, but so they decided they were gonna do something to him. So they threw him in a pit and the older brother was like we can't, you know, hurt him, he's our brother. And he went off and did something, went to have lunch or did something. And while he was gone, some, some traders were coming through and they actually sold Joseph as a slave to these people for like a bag of silver or something and then, like he was, you know, crying and begging and pleading and they just basically sold him off into slavery.

Speaker 1: 36:51

So here he is, little dreamer kid, carried off into, and they ended up taking him into Egypt and then when he got there he got bought by like a captain of the guard, potiphar, like somebody that was, you know, high up in the government running stuff. And you know, egypt was like the ruling power of the world at that time. And I mean I understood history because I'd studied history. I just never really studied the Bible, I didn't really care about Bible stuff, right, but Egypt was like the power at that time. And so this guy took him, made him a slave, took him home and Joseph like Kind of like me, like he would like adapt, figured out and work hard, reminding me of myself when I was in the kitchen in prison in Florida.

Speaker 1: 37:37

Yeah like you know, just do your best work. You know you need something to do. So this this captain noticed there was something different about him. I'm like he's everything I give him to do, he makes it better. So eventually, over the course of a year, a couple years something, he Turned his whole household over to him. So Joseph was a slave in Egypt, but he was running this huge household of this. This like I guess my nowadays be like a general in the army or something like a top person yeah and VIP yeah, so Joseph was, you know, doing staying rock and rolling.

Speaker 1: 38:14

But this potter for guy had a wife and she got the hots for Joseph and basically, like she propositioned him, you know, hey, let me get some of that good Hebrew stuff, and he said no, I'd like to know if she actually said that well she. She came at him like she. You know, women are especially older women. I'll come after you.

Speaker 2: 38:41

Well, anyway, we digress.

Speaker 1: 38:44

Basically he told her no, he said I can't do that. You know, I can't do that to my, my master or to my god, because I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna be doing all that. So she like cornered him one day in the house and it was just him and her and she was like basically like trying to rape him or something. So he like doubled up and Got himself out of his robe and ran away like he ran, he fleed, yeah. But you know that that old saying, hell has no fear. He like a woman's corned. They used to tell me that was in the Bible but it's not in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure if it was, it had to come from that.

Speaker 2: 39:21

This because so basically she wanted to have sex with him. She was coming on to him like very aggressively. Yeah he was like Refuse and escaped and she felt like an idiot.

Speaker 1: 39:36

Yes, she felt she was the woman's corned. She was in.

Speaker 2: 39:40

She wasn't so humiliated Maybe's a better word.

Speaker 1: 39:42

Yeah, so what she did was she started screaming and had everybody come and she told him that he tried to rape her, which was not true, and when pot of her found out, he threw Joseph in prison for that. So now Joseph Was had been a slave, now he was in prison. So while he was in prison he like figured out how to make the best of it, hand the business, you know, do his best, and eventually he ended up running the prison, which is odd, but I mean, this was like some 13, 14 years that passed by.

Speaker 2: 40:16

This time and the king of Egypt they thought he was in prison that long 13, 14 years.

Speaker 1: 40:23

I think it was 14 years. The whole time like being a slave and then being in prison.

Speaker 1: 40:27

Okay and the king of Egypt which was called the Pharaoh. He took his like his bartender and his butler or baker and threw him in prison and and they were sad and dejected and bothered and Joseph was trying to help him out and they say they were having these bad dreams. So Joseph said, well, you know, my god can help with the dreams, like if you tell him what the dreams are. So they told him his dreams and Joseph told him Basically, told the baker guy or the chef or whatever he was like your dreams, a bad dream. He's gonna have your head chopped off in two days. But then told the bartender, or the cup man was called the cup bearer, but I just figured like he was making like Egyptian martinis or something to him. He told the cup bearer in three days Pharaoh's gone to your position and please, please, when you get out of here, remember me like I'm in here. I'm innocent, you know.

Speaker 1: 41:22

And everything happened just like Joseph said. But then the bartender forgot about him, or the cup bearer. The cup bearer, excuse me, the cup bearer forgot about him. So as the story progressed, I mean I was like really into the story. It was like he's in a deep dark masters kind of like me. The only difference only parallel though the difference was he was innocent and I wasn't. So I mean that would like you know that, was you know me trying to figure that out?

Speaker 1: 41:48

That was playing with your mind a little bit yeah so the Pharaoh started having bad dreams and nobody could tell him what they meant, and and he was like pressuring all his people and his magicians and all his religious people and priests to help him, and nobody can help him. And then the bartender remembered Joseph and was like hold up, there's this guy in prison that told me my dreams. And so it was like, well, go get him. You know, go get him. So they went and got Joseph, they cleaned him up and brought him in front of Pharaoh, and Pharaoh told him.

Speaker 1: 42:18

The dream was you know, there were seven cows they're fat and these seven skinny cows came, eight the cows. And the other dream is there seven like healthy wheat stalks, and then these seven like gnarly unhealthy wheat stalks come and suck them up. And so Joseph was like I can interpret dreams, but, but I can, and if you'll give me a second, I'll tell you what they mean. He came back and he said basically, pharaoh, god's trying to warn you that you're gonna have seven great years Coming up and they're gonna be the best years you've ever had in your land.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Everything's gonna be wonderful, but then you're gonna have seven years of famine that come after that and those seven years are gonna be so bad that you're not even gonna remember the seven good years because of the Havoc that's gonna come on the earth. And he gave him a piece of advice. He said if I were you, I would put somebody in charge of, like, all the grain and all the things and I would save up out of the abundant years, save up for the, for the Not good years.

Speaker 2: 43:23

Prepare base.

Speaker 1: 43:24

Yeah, they're like, put it stockpile. And so Pharaoh said, alright, done, we're gonna make you the man in charge of it. So they basically took Joseph out of prison and made him like the, the vice president of Egypt, which was a world power at the time. I mean like he was the prime minister. Everything he gave him, everything Fast-forward, everything was going the way Joseph said it would go. He got married, had babies. You know he was, he was the man everywhere he went. People bowed down to him, just like his dream, yeah, when he was a kid.

Speaker 1: 43:57

And then his brothers and his family were affected by the famine and they came to Egypt to buy grain and he looked up and they were bowing down before him, just like he had dreamed and and like begging him, you know, because he had the power and there's a lot to that story. But in the end he revealed himself to them and told them I'm Joseph. You know you sent me here To do evil to me. You meant harm to me, but God sent me here To do good and to say you know, basically, through all this, what you did evil to me, is this gonna save the world and it's gonna save you. So he forgave woman. Everything was all good and great and you know, he brought his family over to Egypt and he was like a king and now his whole family was there with him.

Speaker 1: 44:47

But what I got out of the story was is that there was a process, and Right after that I found the scripture. It was in Mark, the Mark's gospel, like the fourth chapter, I believe, where Jesus said and this was the words of Jesus and this was what he gave me during that time so at the kingdom of God is if a man should plant a seed in the ground and then leave it, and then he goes to sleep, gets up, rise night and day. He don't know how this works, but the seed sprouts starts growing, it turns into a big plant and then eventually it's a harvest. So basically, what God was saying to me was and it was so clear I have you in a process and I will make something beautiful out of your life if you will trust me.

Speaker 1: 45:33

And it was so hard for me to like say I mean, I was like okay, but you know, all I see right now in front of me are White bars and these people telling me they're fixing to keep me locked up for the rest of my life and I mean, and it was all around me, it wasn't just, it wasn't just like the bars, it was like the atmosphere was like so thick in there you could cut it with a knife. It was a, it was just depression and just anxiety and just hopelessness. Like in that kind of situation you would think it would be better if I was dead. You know for sure, then to be stuck in this I'd be better off dead. But I did, I believed, I was like, okay, you know, I trust you. I believe I'll just, however long I got to be here, I'll just spend my time, you know, studying the Bible. I need to learn, like your word and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 46:32

And it was the Believe. It was the third or fourth day, but it was like after I'd like surrendered, like okay, whatever you want, I mean whatever you want to do, I'll figure out. Just if you Help me, please help me, because I don't know you. Just you don't know. I mean it's so sad, these people crying, like they would bring the phones down, the guys be on the phone crying and weeping and all through the night, and it's just. I mean.

Speaker 1: 47:04

I think it's different, like when you go to To death row like there's a death row, like you have a death sentence and that's that. At more Well, there's one at West Jefferson too, but they actually you know you're on death row Like 20, 30 years before you get executed, but they have them in like a pod where it's Most of those guys are you. They know they have a distance. They've kind of processed it. So this that kill me. These were people. It's fresh, so they got a life without parole sentence and it's fresh like they haven't even Processed the fact that I'm gonna die in prison unless something, by some miracle, something happens. And for me I didn't have the sentence yet, but the expectation was there. The DA said that's what he was asking for and that was again in the nines. It was just so popular to just drop one of them down on you. I mean, it was like I think some of that was political, but it was like the public liked it. They liked it. They want to get you know you gonna be out here robbing people. We need to keep you locked up forever.

Speaker 1: 48:14

But I had a weird it was like a word that God gave me Like my third or fourth day, but it was after I went through the process and surrendered, and I did, I believed, like what else I got to do? I mean I ain't got no other options anyways. I mean I hate to say that, but it's the truth. Like if you're talking to me and I'm listening and you got something for me, I want it. It's hard to explain, like when God, when you say that God spoke to you, like I don't know that I've ever had like a voice come down from heaven and speak to me. But from the onset, before I ever gave my heart to Jesus, like there was like a still small voice that told me all you have to do is give up and ask me to come in. And I was like, ok, I give up. You know, when I got there, I give up, come in if this is real. And so it was kind of like another one of those experiences where he was just like all I need you to do is just trust me. And I was like, ok, I give up, I trust you. I mean, I don't know what to do. And he gave me like a flash. It was like a memory flash.

Speaker 1: 49:29

It was when I was in Bay County, which was in 1990. That would have been in 1993. So that would have been like four years before. And I was in with my public defender who sucked like she wasn't even a good public defender. She was just trying to, you know, check the box, go to prison, you know, whatever. But I was in a thing with her. Where they were, they had these things called it's the way they score you to sentence you. So in Florida it was ultimately up to the judge, but they like score you out for what your crime calls for and then, if you have priors, it makes your score go up. Does that make sense? Yeah, like a credit score. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:13

But it's that you don't want your score to be high.

Speaker 1: 50:15

No, and this is a, this is a prison score, you know you want that score to be low.

Speaker 1: 50:19

You want your prison score to stay low and plus my mom or my mom robbery. So I was already high, but whatever your priors are will make your score go up. So when, when they were negotiating with my plea bargain with district attorney and my attorney in Bay County they're in Panama City she had the papers laid out and they scored me and they bumped my score up because I've been convicted of battalion or law enforcement officer in Jefferson County and she was like oh no, no, no, no, no, you can't use that. And they were like what do you, what do you mean? And she said technically that happened after he committed this crime, so you can't use that against him. You can't score him on that.

Speaker 2: 51:02

And I guess it's just one of those little rules that maybe some people don't know. There's a technicality, a technicality.

Speaker 1: 51:08

And it's a miracle that she knew, because she ain't even somebody that she didn't care about me, like I was just another case that she needed to, yeah, but she made a thing out of it. And then they were like, oh, let us come back. And then they came back. So you're right, like we can't use that under the law, we can't use that against him, because it happened after. So my score stayed low. They gave me my six years and went to prison.

Speaker 1: 51:28

I was in that cell in this hopeless situation and I remembered that and I, like my mind, I was like, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. Everything that they were using to give me the three structure out happened after the crime that I committed in Shelby County. It was my first crime. That was my memory. You asked me what was the first armed robbery you did and I told you it was in Shelby County. That was my first crime. That was my first crime. So technically, under the law, they couldn't hold any of that against me and I just like was, like ain't no way, like, uh, ain't no way, you know they're really quick.

Speaker 2: 52:10

just so I'm like clear, why couldn't they hold that against you?

Speaker 1: 52:13

Because it happened after I committed the crime. So my first crime was in Shelby County, yeah, and I think it was November of 1993. The one in Montgomery was in December of 1993. The one I committed in Florida was in January of 1993. Oh, I'm sorry, 92. These were my first. One was November 92, then December 92, then January 93. And then the battalion law enforcement officer in the uh uh, jefferson County, florida, was in January 93. So all these things happened after that. So they couldn't use it against me in the scoring, they couldn't score it against me, so they couldn't count against me. So three strikes, you're out did not apply. But now I'm a little kid sitting in a lockdown at Shelby Correctional Facility, facing life in prison without parole. And I have this information and I'm like Jesus, like are you? Are you telling me this? Like I mean, what do we do? And I called for the phone. I call my mom, got in touch with my lawyer, mr DeBell DeBard DeBalin.

Speaker 2: 53:21

DeBardalabin.

Speaker 1: 53:22

I don't know how to say his name, it was a long. It was D E B R, d E B L. It was a long I think it's DeBardalabin, I've seen that it may be, I don't know. I went to high school with a DeBardalabin.

Speaker 1: 53:33

In Pensacola. Yeah Well, maybe they're Ken folk, ken to the Montgomery DeBardabalin, debardalabins, debardalabins, whatever. Anyways, remember I told you this guy was for me, remember, in Montgomery, I think he was a believer, he was like a real lawyer, he was a public defender, but he was like it was a pro bono case and I got in touch with him and I told him that you know and he was like let me get back with you.

Speaker 1: 53:59

And then, like he got back with me, like in a couple of hours, it was like you're right, they can't use that, they can't use that against you, wow. And so the hopeless situation that I was in was over and they let me out. They like reverse the curse.

Speaker 2: 54:13

Wait, they let you out of lockdown.

Speaker 1: 54:15

Yeah, so I still had a 10 year sentence. Yeah, like I still had to do that, but that was a 10 year sentence plus time served. So I mean it was only like a six year sentence and then with good time it could be. You know, I could have been out in a year, yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:28

But going from thinking that you're more than likely going to be life without parole, you're going to die in there to reverse it.

Speaker 1: 54:36

But here's the other. Here's the miracle of that. The lawyers didn't know that. They didn't know that. Jesus told me that.

Speaker 2: 54:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:45

I'm convinced, I have no doubt they didn't know it.

Speaker 2: 54:47

They were just like Well even back to the situation of the DA that you said sucked that she knew that technicality not the public defender. Public defender that wasn't good and was not for you and didn't care. Yeah, she knew that technical, that technicality. And she called them on it and called them on it, and you remembered that.

Speaker 1: 55:06

I don't think I remember, because I remember at the time I didn't care. I mean, I was like, okay, whatever, um, it wasn't, it didn't it didn't have the weight, it wasn't a big deal.

Speaker 2: 55:14

As big a deal then, as it was going to play out.

Speaker 1: 55:16

Later. But now what, four or five years later, I'm sitting on almost death row. It's not death row, it was life without Paris, right without parole row, and I remember that and I know that God showed me that. I believe it was the very next day, like he filed some kind of motion, they reversed the curse and then they came to let me out.

Speaker 2: 55:37

They reversed the curse.

Speaker 1: 55:40

So basically sweet home Alabama, you know exhausting sweet home, alabama, was trying to take James K Jones out. Like we want you out, we want you to have an X behind your name, we want you to die in prison. But Jesus had a better plan for my life and that part I mean that in itself was a miracle. And you know, like you know, I joke about the booty booties, like people try to make God this super.

Speaker 2: 56:13

Give a very quick James K Jones definition to the booty booties Udi booties.

Speaker 1: 56:20

I've been saying that for a year. I picked that up from somewhere. It's just like where you over spiritualize everything. Okay, and God is a spirit and he's real. Jesus is real, every I mean. But you know, everything ain't always. Oh, you know. He's also very practical. He's here with me. He knows what I'm going through. He knew that I was locked up in a little coffin they were fixing to send me to prison for the rest of my life and he intervened and he could have just busted the bars down like he did in the Bible. You know, sometimes he did that for people, but then I would have been on escape and I could have never, would have never met you and got married. But no, it's just like. He just gave me one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one. Gave me one, one little flash of a memory, one word Like remember this. Pow Boom, it's over, it's over, just like that.

Speaker 2: 57:11

That's crazy.

Speaker 1: 57:12

And you know there's been so many times that's happened, stuff like that, since then, but this, this one, was like that is extreme. That was an extreme like situation, but it did something in me that. I think it was like a week and a half Maybe. I was in there. It did something to me. Number one I understood that there was a process Like this is a process and it's gonna be like this forever and that has served me well over the last 20, what was that 25 years ago when that happened? It's cause God always has a. I'm always in a process, I mean we're in a process right now, but it's always for my good, it's always for his plan, it's always for his. You know he gets the credit and glory, but uh.

Speaker 2: 58:00

I would say it's always for our best.

Speaker 1: 58:02

It is for our best.

Speaker 2: 58:03

It's not even just good, I mean the best.

Speaker 1: 58:05

You know his steps when he orders your steps and if you belong to him he does. Even you know, even if you mess up, he's gonna get you back on. You know where you need to be. It's kind of like a GPS. Like you know, I'm a late adopter on like technology. I didn't want a GPS cause I thought they were stupid. But no, but I thought like if you have a GPS and you put in the GPS and then you miss the turn, then you just gotta, you're screwed.

Speaker 1: 58:31

But I realized like the first week or so I had a GPS was, if you miss the turn, it reroutes you and so you're gonna get to your destination. You might've missed the easy turn and you may have to make a U turn and do whatever, but God is like that. Like he's got a plan, he's got a process. I might've made a mistake, I might've missed the turn, but he's gonna reroute me and I'm gonna get back. You know his, whatever his plan is, this is gonna happen and I would really need that later on to understand that and believe that. But the next season of my life, or the next you know part of it, was pretty amazing because of that, because I saw how Like you're still in prison but you're saying I'm still in prison. It was, I'm still in prison, but I saw that Not only am I known and I know him, he knows me and he's got a plan and his plan is going to work out and no matter what it looks like, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 59:29

Yeah. So, that's the ultimate really story of like. I think someone like me that might be. You know a picture example that you might say that you might use of like being in prison and there's nowhere to go, but like. That was actually your real story. There was no hope, no hope there was nothing.

Speaker 1: 59:48

Besides being literally in prison, yeah, I was three strikes, I'm out. Yeah, I'm out.

Speaker 2: 59:55

Because I think we all feel that way in situations in our life feeling like I am stuck and there is no way out of this, like like in different, you know, whether it be financial or relationship or whatever. I think we can even I and I think most people can relate to like I am, there is I have, there's no way out.

Speaker 2: 1:00:12

There's no way out Whether I did it on my own or you know, something bad happened to me, whatever so, but for you it was the same thing, but there was literal bars, like a physical space you could not get out.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

Yeah, it was very real. Well, I've told my story many times, but one of the things that's always stood out to me like when I tell it, especially like in a secular setting, when I tell my story, I've had so many people come up to me and say Secular meaning non-Christian, not in a church.

Speaker 2: 1:00:39

Don't believe the same way, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

Not, not, not making it like a church, and we're not trying to make this podcast a church thing either.

Speaker 2: 1:00:45

No, it's just a story. It's my story, our story.

Speaker 1: 1:00:47

But Jesus is. Is the. Is this his story?

Speaker 2: 1:00:50

My story. So sorry you were saying that when you tell us in a secular setting.

Speaker 1: 1:00:53

There's always somebody that comes up to me afterwards and says and it's usually somebody that doesn't look like they fit, like would even be impacted by my story and they say I've never been in prison. But you know, but I was in a prison of alcoholism. I mean, I remember one lady told me I was in a pr. I wasn't in prison like you, but I was in a prison that was built by liquor bottles because I was a hopeless alcoholic. Or I was in a prison of abuse in a relationship, or I was in the prison of, you know, financial ruin, just all the things, like people always can relate to that. And it's true, it's the same, I mean we all have prisons.

Speaker 2: 1:01:35

We find ourselves in.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

Wherever we're stuck at, Jesus don't want us to stay stuck. He can unstick us, but we have to do it his way. Like we, I had to walk, walk that out his way.

Speaker 2: 1:01:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01:46

And, you know, scary but uh, this is probably where we need to end this one. Um, the next, next episode I think it's pretty exciting We'll talk about back to regular population.

Speaker 1: 1:01:58

Well, not just that they didn't send me back to the dorm that looked like Sam's the wild, wild, wild west, they actually moved me to a chapel dorm, which was we called it the chapel dorm because it was next to the chapel but it was smaller. I would meet people there that were foundational in the rest of my life, even up to this day. Um, just my experiences with like church folks, like especially the free world church people. Lord have mercy, it's the free world.

Speaker 1: 1:02:25

The people that came in to do prison People um people not in prison people not in prison and then like the, the Christian brotherhood there, and then you know baptism and all this. You know all this other stuff. And then there were some uh, for real Jesus followers that I connected with and um, but we'll talk about some of the crazy stuff I saw people do with like Christianity and religion and all that stuff. And then there was another phenomenon that I didn't see coming, that I'll just leave you hanging on that one. That's exciting, it's good stuff. Well, thanks so much for tuning in. Anything anything to add?

Speaker 2: 1:02:58

Nope, but I'm sure I'll have some next time.

Speaker 1: 1:03:00

Well, we really appreciate the feedback we could be getting from you guys. It's very encouraging. Feel free like anything. You think we need to do different or could do better, Let us know.

Speaker 2: 1:03:09

All right, see you next time.

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

Bye.

Speaker 2: 1:03:10

Bye.

Speaker 1: 1:03:12

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast. For more exclusive content, head over to our website, Tim Jonesco.

Speaker 2: 1:03:21

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's going to get you access to our for real. Real, which is very different than the highlight real Some very juicy content there.

Speaker 1: 1:03:34

Good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:03:39

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level, where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been.

Speaker 1: 1:03:48

I've been loving it, and you will prison, prison recipes, yeah, but thanks, we'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:03:54

Thanks, bye, bye, bye.