Inside the Harrowing World of Alabama's Donaldson Correctional Facility

Ever wondered what life is like behind the bars of Alabama's notorious Donaldson Correctional Facility? We journey with James K Jones, who paints a vivid and chilling picture of his unexpected transfer to the harsh realities of this violent institution, thrust into a world of fear, disbelief and panic. James's recollections of the sickly inmates, their grey and yellow complexions, and the pervasive smell of instant coffee and tobacco provide a hauntingly real insight into the dire conditions of Alabama's prison system.

In a riveting discussion, James further reveals the dark power dynamics within prison walls, discussing the role of the 'setup guy' for the 'boo game', a form of psychological torture. This harrowing account serves as a glimpse into the terrifying struggle for survival faced by inmates daily. Join us as we delve into the depths of this stark world, and witness James' desperate search for faith amidst fear. This episode is not for the faint-hearted, but promises an unforgettable journey into the human spirit's resilience. Tune in and prepare to have your perceptions of prison life irrevocably changed.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 4:58

Hey guys, we just want to give you a quick heads up on this episode. There's a couple of them here that we've marked as explicit and I want to make sure it's just a little checkbox that you mark. But I want to make sure that before you get into this, there's some details in this that are not easy to listen to, Very hard for me to talk about, but this is the reality of the Alabama Department of Corrections and it was a part of my story, so I felt like we needed to be transparent and tell it like it was.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, so we're just making everyone aware. I hope you guys get something out of this and we look forward to hearing your feedback. Thanks, guys.

Speaker 1: 5:44

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. This is season two, episode six. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:54

And this is Hailey Jones, and this is his story that has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:59

So in episode five I kind of left us hanging. I was at Kilby getting ready to go to my permanent camp, which I was slayed to go to St Clair, and that there was that morning where they woke me up. It was spring of 1997. I was full of hope, full of faith, full of life, ready to do my next thing.

Speaker 2: 6:21

Go to the Bible program at St Clair.

Speaker 1: 6:23

Yes, I was so excited I wanted to go. It was a Bible college but it was really just a program. But I was so excited about that I knew that was my next thing. And then they woke me up and told me to pack my stuff. I was going to the DOC and as I was rolling out I was at the transfer gate getting ready to leave and for some reason I was fixated on the inmate worker that was processing my stuff.

Speaker 1: 6:50

So they have these big brown paper bags and then they write your name and then they write where you're going. And I was fixated on him and I kind of got alarmed when I saw he wrote the letters WD, cf on my bag. And to this day I can still see that big marker and the smell. It was like one of those old timey markers that smell like paint and just the smell of it and get nervous when I didn't understand what was happening. And then, but they don't have to tell you anything, you just you do what they tell you to do. So there was a part of me that jumped with hope. Maybe they're sending me to one of those neat they're always coming up with these programs. Well, I would find out later that was in Florida, where they were always coming up with programs. In the state of Alabama that was not the case.

Speaker 2: 7:39

No, it was in.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Alabama. So I'm confused, trying to figure out where I'm going get in the van. It's me and I think two other guys, and there's an old timer sitting next to me and you know we've already said an old timer, somebody's been in and out of prison most of their life, Right? So I look over at him and he's got like this, just forlorn. Look on his face. And I'm sitting there trying to figure out what WDCF stands for and he looks over at me and he says it means West Jefferson. We're going to West Jefferson.

Speaker 2: 8:15

And my heart just sank because what you got, Well, I was just going to say refresh me and us on West Jefferson, why did your heart sink? What did that exactly mean? I know that was a prison camp and a different one than St Clair.

Speaker 1: 8:29

But yeah, so there are three max camps in Alabama West Jefferson, st Clair and Atmore. Atmore is where they execute people. It's a pretty violent prison but it's not as bad as West Jefferson. West Jefferson is in West Jefferson County in Bessemer, alabama, and I had heard all the stories. West Jefferson is like a nightmare place. It's a place that they send people that are problems. It's just a place that you don't want to be. And when he said West Jefferson, I was like trying to argue with him because I was like no, it says WDCF, like that, how you get West Jefferson out of WDCF. And he said they changed the name to William Donaldson Correctional Facility after an officer that was murdered there by the inmates. And when he said that I just no, I just freaked out, like I was like, I was like immediately, like kind of went into shock. Like you know, I didn't kill nobody, like, and I was a good inmate, I didn't get in trouble. It was a.

Speaker 1: 9:29

That was quite a trip from Montgomery to Bessemer, alabama, just just trying to like get my mind around it. I think for the first hour hour and a half I was just, I was in shock, I was dazed, I was confused and I was just, and then I had this, this conflict going on in my mind like, well, you know Jesus, you know where, where you at, you know how, how, how is this happening to me? I don't understand. And it it was, I don't know. It was like a panic, it was fear, and there's also a big part of me that just I can't believe that I'm going to West Jefferson. I'd heard too many of the stories and this is like you hear the prison stories and you hear the stuff you see on TV and movies. This was that and that's where I was going and it was a. It was a crazy, crazy ride going up there. I think it might take an hour and a half hour and 45 minutes to get there.

Speaker 2: 10:26

So not that long, not as long as no, it was a straight.

Speaker 1: 10:29

I mean, this was a DLC transfer. So you, when you're on DLC transfer, you you go from point A to point B. There's no, they don't really there's not a lot in between that stuff. But I just I don't know how to problem process and it. And we're on the highway, and you know, we, we come through Birmingham and get off on the other side of Birmingham, we get off on this road and then it just keeps going and going and going and then it like turns into like woods and then it turns into like a forest, and then it's just like, and it's a spring day, it's in the morning and the weather's not. You know, it's a beautiful day. But you know I'm going in, I feel like I'm going into hell, like I don't. It was just so hard to process it. But then the ride there, it was just like. It just went on and on and on. Once we got into like the forest, and then you know it's down in the valley, up a hill, take a left and just there's no, no civilization. You just see, I mean you saw like little houses here and there, but not not like a city or town or anything, but it was. It was scary and it seemed to take forever and we didn't talk. I think we're all in shock.

Speaker 1: 11:44

I don't think any of us knew we were going to West Jefferson, but then as we turn on to the, there's a like a wooded road that you turn off to is the store, and then it says William E Donaldson Correctional Facility. And as we were turning down that road and it's like a mile down that way, it's like this place is buried in the middle of nowhere the old timer was looking at me like he was scared for me, and that that scared me even worse because the way he was looking at me and he said hey, kid, do you have a knife? And I said no, and he said, well, you're going to need one. And that scared me even worse. And then I, you know I'll try to tell him about. Well, I can't. You know I can't do that. You know cause I want to go home. And then you know I've had this experience with Jesus. And then what? And making any sense.

Speaker 2: 12:38

Anyway, get to hell tonight.

Speaker 1: 12:41

Well, remember, the rule when I went to prison in Florida was you had to get in the fight Right and then you got to your camp. Well, the rule in Alabama was you had to stab somebody or get in a knife fight or you had to do something to prove yourself. And honestly, for me, I couldn't do that. Even if I had to, I couldn't do it. Even to this day. Like, well, if somebody was messing with my wife or messing with my kids, I might, you know, but just like, like physically stabbing somebody, like I'm not doing that, I don't even, you know, I don't even hunt, I don't do none of that. If we had to kill animals to eat, we would be on the Daniel diet for the rest of our life.

Speaker 2: 13:21

I'll cook them. You kill them, bring them to me, I'll cook them yeah but it was just, it was a I don't know.

Speaker 1: 13:30

It was like I don't. I don't know where I am, I don't know how I got here, I don't know. You know what? I don't know what's happening.

Speaker 2: 13:39

You were in shock. It sounds like.

Speaker 1: 13:40

I was, I couldn't, I couldn't make any sense of it, I couldn't know.

Speaker 2: 13:46

Well, you mean why you didn't go to St Clair and you went there instead.

Speaker 1: 13:50

Yeah, like, why am I going? Like West Jefferson is for, like, the worst, the worst, and usually West Jefferson is reserved for disciplinary problems. And I'm not a disciplinary problem, right, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. I mean I'm not like a model inmate, but I was like a. I've never been in any trouble.

Speaker 2: 14:06

Right.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Other than little minor stuff. So we get ready to pull in. And they pulled in the back gate there and it was like a prison, like what you see, with guard towers, fence behind a fence behind a fence, with razor wire, everywhere.

Speaker 2: 14:21

Where people with guns in the car tower. Yep, that's like a movie.

Speaker 1: 14:25

A bunch of guard towers, people with guns, and you could see them stand up there with guns. So you knew that. You know this was not, this was not good. So as we pulled into the back gate, it was daytime, so people were out on the yard. I could see people everywhere and it was like a sea of like people in these white, like uniforms or whatever. And I had never I don't know, I'd never seen anything like that.

Speaker 1: 14:52

But as as I got off the transfer van me and the two other guys that were with me and the people that were processing me through, and the way people were looking at me, I'm standing at the back gate looking at West Jefferson, which was to me like the definition of I'm in hell, and there was a song that started going through my head. That's basically the Guns N' Roses song Welcome to the Jungle, you're Gonna Die. And that was I mean I literally. That song was like echoing in my I saw, it, could hear, but it was the way that it was what I could see, it was what I had heard, and it was very clear that I was not, I was not in a good place and that something was going to happen to me and I knew that I couldn't defend myself.

Speaker 1: 16:15

Then I started thinking, well, maybe I should get a knife. But then, you know, I don't even know how to use a knife. Like how do you stab someone? I mean, I'm not. I'm not that kind of person. Even even before, you know, I had my heart changed by Jesus, like I was not into violence and doing all that kind of stuff, but it was like just a sea of just looking at like animals. But they were like dressed in white, the way that they were looking at me, like just the, the jeers, the sneer, like they were like hollering at me across the compound and it was like they were predators and I was there, pray, fresh meat, and I don't know it was. I was like I was close to like passing out with fear as I was trying to put one foot in front of the other. And you know, I forgot all my training about the unit and everything that I'd learned in the state of Florida.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Oh, that was out the window.

Speaker 1: 17:11

No, this was, this, was next level, this was something. This, this is. This was bad, but that's thinking back on. This is a hard one to talk about, cause I like to you know it's like one the really painful ones. You like to kind of you think. Thank you, jesus, I got through that. But you like preparing for this podcast, like putting myself back in that place in the way that I felt, I feel like I can like, emotionally, like feel like the stress and the fear and I can almost see that on you and hear that in your voice.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Well, you know, our friend Kelly, uh, Dan's mom, she's a counselor and she told me that in the first one she could hear my stress through that and she told me to tap my hands on my legs as I was talking.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Well, folks, he's tapping, he's tapped up tapping away.

Speaker 1: 17:58

So, thank you, kelly, that's working. But anyways, let's, let's, let's move on. Um, they took us into a gym. There was a three of us and then there are other people on intake, so the gym probably had about 20 people that were coming in being processed into Donaldson Correctional Facility. But we, you know, we still called it West Jefferson, because it'll always be West Jefferson to me, just because of the, the, the stories, the things, and sadly it's still like that to this day. It's somewhat worse now.

Speaker 1: 18:31

You know, I did prison ministry for years there. Um, it's uh, it's pretty bad. But they uh, sat me down, told me to you know, sit over here till we call your name. They brought me a sack lunch and it was like two pieces of moldy bread with some bologna and a slice of cheese and I, I mean I didn't eat it. I got my little Bible. I was trying to read my Bible, I was trying to pray. You know, I don't know, I don't know what's happening here.

Speaker 1: 18:57

And then, like, I wanted a cigarette, like, and I quit smoking, you know, after I had my Jesus experience and uh, I was like I need a cigarette, I need something, I need a cigarette, or you know something, and uh, but then I thought, well, no, you know I don't want to, I don't want to digress, but I'm just, I'm still, my mind is reeling and I still really I can't figure out. You know, I'm in shock and it's like watching a horror movie and you know the, the shock and the anticipation, the fear and all that stuff. But I'm actually is me. I'm here, I'm, I'm living this like horror movie and uh, um, I think the thing that scared me you know the way the guy told me I needed a knife, that scared me pretty bad.

Speaker 1: 19:42

And then they had like inmate, like runners, that were in and out of the gym like people. I would learn what that meant later. It just meant they weren't locked down like the rest of the camp because this was a max camp, this was a lockdown camp. Um, but just like the look in their eyes, I can't, I can't really explain You're talking about the look in the inmate's eyes or the the inmate's officers.

Speaker 1: 20:03

There weren't many officers there was, you know, they dropped you off and then they go on somewhere and the inmates take care of you, but it was a look of like there's nothing behind their eyes. It was just like this dead look, almost like like their eyeballs were like nickels or dimes or something. It's strange, I can't. I can't explain it, and it was scary. And then there there was like this weird, um, weird like look of everybody. Because they didn't let these people out much, they were locked down a lot. So like the white guys had like this weird, like yellowish complexion and it was cause they weren't getting a lot of sun. And then a lot of the black guys had like this weird gray like complexion and it was just it looked very unhealthy and very like this is not a good place that I'm in. And then, um, like the teeth was out their teeth not teeth, teeth Like you. People will smile at you and you'll see like a half a tooth and then a regular tooth and then a half a tooth. I would learn later like that's how they take care of your dental hygiene in Alabama department corrections Like if you got a cavity, they just take half your tooth off. It's weird, it's bad, it's very. Alabama is backward and bad and worse than I don't know anything I would have ever thought, I mean.

Speaker 1: 22:46

And then the smells. It was the way it smelled. It stunk like body odor but there was a weird like lingering scent of like instant coffee and tobacco, but it was nasty, it was just, it was. I don't know, I can't explain it, it's just a bad, it's just a bad smell. But uh, there was a runner that approached me and he started asking me questions and I was scared but I thought, well, if he's like you know, working for the police, he must be you know. All right, I would find out later he was. He was the setup guy that was setting me up for whatever was to come next. And I mean, he was asking me questions about you know where I was from and you know. I said, you know, think city, and have you ever been to prison? I was like, yeah, I'm been in prison in Florida. You know, blah, blah, blah, how much time I got stuff like that. And then I didn't really pick up on that until I didn't understand that part till later.

Speaker 2: 23:44

When you said he was setting you up for or what. What was he setting you up for when you said it's a boot game.

Speaker 1: 23:51

When you come in there, a what it's called a boot game. A boot game means that you're trying to scare somebody. So if you scare somebody enough, they'll submit and do whatever you want them to do, and then you won't have to use violence. I mean, I knew that from Florida, but here they they would try the boot games. That didn't work, then they would resort to violence.

Speaker 2: 24:11

So he was doing a boot game with you.

Speaker 1: 24:13

No, he was like the, he was the setup guy. He was getting all the information.

Speaker 2: 24:18

He was getting the information for the boot game.

Speaker 1: 24:20

Yeah, he was setting me up for the boot game, okay, and I didn't know it at the time. I thought I was confused because he was like working for them, so I thought he must be somebody I could talk to, right, and he wasn't asking me anything out of the ordinary Like how much time I got where I've been, I've ever been to prison, I've spent, you know all the things. But then they finally called me back and they were processing me through and doing my paperwork. And it was a stack of paperwork like I 've never seen before. I never saw that much, I never had to do that much paperwork before. And I came to a place in the paperwork that I didn't understand. And so it was a lady that was behind the desk thing there processing me and I didn't understand what this paragraph that wanted me to sign, like what, and I didn't understand. So I showed it to her and she was like and this was one of the craziest parts of that day and it just like confounded on my feet, like it just compounded every fear that I had, and she was like oh baby, that's just asking, if you die here, what we want to do with your body. And I busted out crying I didn't know, scared. Scared like what, what? What you want us to do with your body? And I was like I give it to my mama. I guess I want you to give it to my mama. So she said, well, you just write her name down there and just sign it. And so that freak, that shook me, like if there was any part of me left that was that could, was not, was, unshook. That shook me like they try to figure out what to do with my body. And I ain't even got, I ain't even been processed in yet, and because did they ask you that in the Florida prison?

Speaker 1: 25:59

No, I mean, they asked you like for emergency contact, stuff like that. But this was specifically what you need to say, what you want us to do with your body if you die here, and it was just like it was commonplace for people to die there and that just. You know, that's like something out of the dark ages, or you know. You know that's not even anything that I could like. I couldn't grasp that with my man is caring me.

Speaker 2: 26:27

The thing that I think when you say this is just coming to my mind, which is I don't want to get too far off track, but it's just so crazy, and I know there's so much talk about this and I don't even know all the talk, but I mean, you do commit a crime and you do go to prison and you do lose your freedom.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:44

But, and so I mean I get that and like you don't. But at what point is it that you're treated unhumanely?

Speaker 1: 26:54

Or where is that line, you know, because I'll tell you the line for me is in the state of Florida you're treated humanely but you're disciplined and you're in prison. But when I came to the state of Alabama, that was when I became started to be treated inhumanely.

Speaker 2: 27:07

And I guess that's what you're about to tell us.

Speaker 1: 27:09

Well, I mean the whole thing. I mean that's the fact that the Alabama Department of Corrections have been under federal like observation for years, like before I got there, and they still are. I mean it's still a mess and it's awful and it's honestly. It's gotten worse in the last 10 years or so and now you got inmates with cell phones that are sending out images to the world. So it's you know, stuff that I saw that people probably wouldn't even believe if I told them. Like they're putting it on video now and sending it to YouTube because they've got contraband cell phones.

Speaker 2: 27:40

But that's crazy. That's another can of worms. Sorry, didn't mean to open it, but I just like. That was all I was thinking as you're talking, so continue. She asked where who would get your body or whatever. I said my mom this sounds so crazy.

Speaker 1: 27:52

He's in my body of my mom and you know we got through that. But I'm I'm scared and I was there for you know, I think I was in the gym there for like five or six hours before they finally say, okay, we got your process, you're going to, you're going to one block, so get all your stuff, come with us. They walked me down there and it's like this maze of a coffin like. It's like these long, like Donaldson was not like anything I'd ever seen. I'd been at camps. Donaldson was like it's like a compound, almost like Fort Knox. It's like these long halls that are.

Speaker 1: 28:28

You know, there's a North hall in the West hall and then it's got these cell blocks and it's just, it's just bad, scary, but they have to walk you down so many hallways and doors and crazy, crazy stuff. And when I finally get where I'm going, there's another hallway that you have to walk down and then there's like an officer's cube in the middle and then there's like a door sell a block on the left and a block on the right. And I think I went into the block on the left and when that door opened, they're just like you're just, you're on your own. They tell you which cell you're in, they don't even go with you. The police, the police, don't even want to go in there. And it was basically. It looked like the jungle like, but with more animals than a jungle would have in it, cause there's there's 96 men in a cell block. And when that door popped and I walked in, all eyes were on me.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Oh, so when you walked in, that was where the 97 guys were and you had to find your own bed or no? They give you an assignment, Okay.

Speaker 1: 29:38

They told me what my assignment was. It was like it was upstairs on the top bunk, that's give you. It's like it was a cell block, but then it has a room number and you're either up or down.

Speaker 2: 29:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:48

And they told me where to go. They didn't go with me. So I walk in and you know, all eyes are on me, it's like, it's like right before dinner time, so everybody's stirring, and it's just they were like, oh, look at what do we got here and it was. It was scary, that walk like I had to walk through that and then I had to walk up some steps to get to my, to where my cell was. And when I my next shock, I guess when I got to my cell, when I opened the door, I found out my cell partner was a CCC.

Speaker 2: 30:24

Okay, I know we've talked about this.

Speaker 1: 30:26

Yeah, let's not go into that.

Speaker 2: 30:28

I know oh okay, so, but you knew that because he that they dressed, he was dressed up like a girl Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:33

Okay, he was dressed up like a girl and I found out and that I was like, oh, that kind of made me say like I don't want to deal, like this is a lot to take in now. I got to be dealing with this cause they the stuff they do, they do it in their cell and that'd be myself. So it's that scared me. But I mean I was trying to be nice and you know honestly, I can't even imagine.

Speaker 1: 30:56

He was, but he wasn't like, he was respectful.

Speaker 1: 30:59

You know, like here's your space, it's my space and you know I started trying to unpack my stuff and I'm in shock and I'm on the top bunk and you know there's one little drawer you got to fit all your stuff into and I'm trying to make my bed and you know, just keep myself busy, whatever I need to do.

Speaker 1: 31:14

And then they called for a child time and so I was like, well, I guess I'm hungry, so we, we're going to eat, eat dinner at Donaldson Correctional Facility. That was an experience because I noted that it was like when you see them like feed animals, like you know, like when you call the dogs to come eat dinner, like the way they just jump over each other and I don't know it was it was. It was something there was no like when I was in Florida. It was if you were going to child, you're going to stand in attention and stand in line if you want to eat. But this was just like mass chaos. So it was like 96 people heading out one little door down the hall to get to the child hall, but it's never saw nothing like it was chaos.

Speaker 2: 32:07

It was complete chaos. It's funny because you have mentioned, like referenced animals three or four times already in this episode since being in Alabama, and you never referenced that when talking about being in Florida. It wasn't like that in Florida, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:19

Florida ran their prisons. Florida ran their prisons like we're trying to rehabilitate you. Alabama runs their prisons, like we're just warehousing you until they say your time's up and we're trying to keep you from killing each other. But if you need to kill each other, go ahead. We don't care and I'm not saying that's how it is, but that was the way. That was the way I took it from being on that end of the right of the receiving.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Well, and it's interesting because you had just come from another prison environment that was totally different. Yeah, at the I mean you just got there, but so far you can already see some pretty stark differences.

Speaker 1: 32:53

This is not. This is bad.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:56

This is everything I ever had bad dreams about in a prison. So we make it down to the chow hall and then that was another. Oh my gosh, that was an experience like walking in there. It was like this dark, stankin' like place and it was like it was like humidity and the lights were there was, there were some lights, but most of them were like cracked or out. And then you had like this chow line that you walked through and it was disgusting, it was nasty, and the people standing behind there like slapping stuff on these trays, they were just looking at you like I don't even know how it was, just it was gross. And then the food was another. It was, it was I didn't eat.

Speaker 2: 33:49

You would have rather had the fish flay for McDonald's with the water.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Well, the food in Alabama at West Jefferson or Donaldson made the worst thing I'd ever had in Florida. Seemed like the cheesecake factory. I mean it was bad. I mean when I say bad I'm not exaggerating Like they gave us these meat patties they we call them meat patties, I think they called them hamburgers or hamburgers or something like that, but they were like composed of all the parts of like a cow that nobody wanted to use and so if you bit into a meat patty it was like it had like sinew and bones and like almost like rubber bands. But it was like the parts. And I mean I'm not lying People. Anybody that's been to the Alabama Department of Corrections would would tell you about the meat patty. But people don't believe me when I say like what they were feeding us in there and it was disgusting. I've never meat patties were rough.

Speaker 1: 34:45

But that first day I didn't need anything. I was scared. I sat down, I tried to eat. I think it was like macaroni with some meat patties chopped up in it or something and like red Kool-Aid and it was just. It was disgusting. And the way that people were eating and fighting over the food and give me that, give me the. I just I don't know. I was still shocked. Still how did I get here? I mean, I just I don't know, I didn't know, I didn't know what to expect. So I tried to eat. I couldn't eat, so I headed back. They take you in like herds. So they heard 96 men down, let them eat, and then heard 96 men back down, but it's like chaos all the way down, chaos all the way back, and it was just like I don't know. I never seen anything like that, I mean even to this day. I mean it was like something you would see, like in a third world country.

Speaker 2: 35:44

It seems like I mean, I think of you know people act the way they're treated eventually, like if you treat someone a certain way, they're going to start acting that way eventually.

Speaker 1: 35:56

Yeah, and I say animals and I don't mean that as disrespect to the inmates, but they acted like animals, but they were, you're right.

Speaker 2: 36:01

But they were treated like animals.

Speaker 1: 36:02

They were caged up and treated like animals. It was quite a first few hours.

Speaker 2: 36:06

So dinner was over.

Speaker 1: 36:07

Dinner's over, we get back down, I walk in. As soon as I walk in, there's this little kid standing there. He looks like he's about 18 years old. He's a young, blonde hair, blue eyes, and there wasn't a lot of white people in that pod to start with. But he pulled up on me and he was like hey, are you? I heard that you were from Florida. So I said, no, I'm not from, I'm not from Florida, but I was in prison in Florida.

Speaker 1: 36:35

Well, I'm from Florida, I'm from Panama City, and he was real nice or sweet, you know, like trying to, you know, strike up a conversation with me and honestly, I didn't take him to be, I didn't have any like fear of him or anything like that. But I would, you know, later find out he was the bait. The other guy was setting me up for the boo game. He was the bait. He was the one that they sent out to get me to come into a cell. So he was wanting to show me his pictures and asked me to come in his cell. And when I went in his cell, then two or three other people followed us in there. So I was a little nervous not too nervous, little nervous and then he never did show me his picture album and he was introducing me to this man you mean another inmate.

Speaker 2: 37:27

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 37:28

But maybe we should just unpack this real quick.

Speaker 2: 37:33

Yeah, I think, because I don't follow.

Speaker 1: 37:35

At West Jefferson they had these little things that they called the families and they were kind of like gangs, but it was you had one like man and then he had like other like men that were with him, that you know helped run the family, and then you had all these boys and sissies and basically it was centered around sex, Like it was disgusting. It's disgusting.

Speaker 2: 38:03

Oh, that sounds so twisted.

Speaker 1: 38:05

No, I would see things there that I steal. I'm like when I was working at the Foundry I was like you don't want to go prison, bro, you don't, you know they will, you don't? You just don't, like you need to get your life straight now, don't do it. But he was like the main leader of that little particular prison family which is twisted.

Speaker 2: 38:25

The one that the little blonde boy introduced you to.

Speaker 1: 38:28

Yeah, the one that followed us in.

Speaker 2: 38:30

Right.

Speaker 1: 38:31

So come to find out the little blonde boy. He was his boy or his, you know, some group of whatever.

Speaker 2: 38:37

He was in that family.

Speaker 1: 38:39

Yeah, he was in the family, he was protected by them and he was sound so weird to even say that, but it is, it's following along.

Speaker 1: 38:44

It is sick, yeah, but uh, I would find out. You know later on that they encouraged that at that time. That's how they kept. That's how they kept order in the prison was that they didn't care. But I'm coming from Florida where if you wanted to be in the stuff like that, you better do in secret. You know you don't do that out in the open and if we catch you you're going to be in a lot of trouble, Like they didn't tolerate that in in Florida. Even if you were like a homosexual and you wanted to like, we're not doing that, that's not what we do. So that was my only narrative with stuff like that. But this was out in the open, flaunting, and it was just, it was crazy. So, but I didn't know all that. Then all I knew was that this kid had baited me into the cell. Well, I didn't know. He baited me. I was. He was trying to show me his picture.

Speaker 2: 39:30

Right, you thought he's been friendly.

Speaker 1: 39:31

And this other guy came in and he started asking me questions. And so I'm like trying to be friendly. I learned like in these situations, as long as you don't come across as like, as you're being a butthole, like you can get you further, and especially when you're new. So I was trying to come across as not arrogant or not you know any kind of giving him anything to use against me.

Speaker 1: 39:55

But in the middle of his conversation I mean I'm in the cell, maybe five minutes when he looked over and he was like so what do you? How do you feel about being a homosexual? So I was like what do what? And he said, oh, is that a problem? You know, how do you feel about being a homosexual? You know homosexual stuff? How does that? And I was like I don't have no feelings about that, you know. I mean, if that's what people want to do, that's up to them. But I didn't know that ain't that, ain't who I am, it's not what I'm going to be doing. So he jumped up and started stomping and waving his hands up and down. This was where this was where the boo game started. So he was trying to scare me.

Speaker 2: 40:34

Like was he jumping up and waving his hands, like he was angry, Like, yeah, like like like what was happening?

Speaker 1: 40:41

You know it was. It was a boo game, like he was trying to like, scare me into doing something that I wasn't going to do. I mean, you would have to kill me to make me into all that. So he was basically trying to scare me into submission and I would see this later on, after I understood the culture. The game was get some information about somebody, get somebody to bait them into a sale. You get them in the sale. You try the boo game on the truth. If the boo game doesn't want to screen, you try to scare them. If that doesn't work, then you go and get some more people and then you rough them up and then they get scared and then they'll do whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1: 41:19

So the boo game didn't work on me because I let them know I don't care what y'all are doing, I'm not going to be doing none of that. You know that's good for you. I mean, I'm not trying to tell you what you need to do, but don't, don't be trying to pull me into something like that. And so he jumped up and started waving his hands around. They stomped off and then I got scared and I stood up to go. I was like I'm out of here, you know what? Because I realized then like it all made sense, like right in the starting to click everything.

Speaker 1: 41:47

The pieces started falling in places, this little young kid, and then there was like incense burning in the cell and they had it decorated with these little it was, it was. It was really bad. So right at that time, as I'm trying to walk out there, like six of them maybe it was five of them that just rushed in there and started like slapping me around and you know, you're going to submit, you're going to do what we say, and I panicked, I didn't know what to do and but I never really like, saw myself as being like under a gang of people like that, I never, I never would have thought that would happen to me. And they weren't like hitting me with their fists, they were like slapping me around, they were, they were scaring me, they were trying to scare me and the little blonde kid he left and it was like all these had all these guys in there.

Speaker 2: 42:39

But not the original man. No, he was in there too. He was the leader, okay.

Speaker 1: 42:43

He was the leader of the pack, like he was the one, and he was just let me know, this is what we do here and this is what you're going to do. You're going to submit. And so I went into strategy mode, like I got to figure out how to get myself out of this situation. So I thought that I would do better one on one than I would five. There's no way I could do anything with five on one, because I was listening to get gang raped Is what was missing to happen to me. And I hate to say this and mama, I hope you're not listening to this, I mean, I've told her, but she don't want to hear this my cousin and I came up with a strategy when we're in the Jefferson County.

Speaker 1: 43:22

This is going to sound crude and it's going to sound bad, but I'm just going to tell you what we decided. We knew we were going to prison and we had all. We had six months where we were together, where all we could do was talk about these things. So the strategy for some might try to rape us was what we're going to do was ask them. You know, we're just letting me give you a blow job and then we're going to bite their wiener off? Oh my God, I mean no. But if you bid off one way, if you bid off one winner, nobody will ever mess with you again. I mean seriously.

Speaker 2: 43:56

I mean, it's hard to even think that this was like a real life situation. This was I mean but we were.

Speaker 1: 44:01

This had been like four years ago, but my mind went back to that strategy, like if I could, if I could just revert, like I can, I can do that. That's what I'm going to do and that's what I decided that I was going to do, oh my God. So I acted like I relented, like okay, you know what I explained to me. So they said I had to belong to one of them, so one of them claimed me.

Speaker 2: 44:24

So I was so when so we're still in the cell, you said, okay, what I have to do, and then one of them claimed you, one of them claimed me, and it ended up what did that look like, did he say I claim him. Yeah, he's mine.

Speaker 1: 44:34

This was mine I got him, he's going to be mine. Oh, this is so sick.

Speaker 2: 44:39

But it happens, it happens.

Speaker 1: 44:41

It happened then and it happens it's. I mean, I can tell you it's hard for me to sit here and listen to this.

Speaker 1: 44:48

It's hard for me to say it, to be honest, but that's what I'm going to do, to be honest. But there was, like as soon as we got in the cell by ourselves together, like he started taking his clothes off and he was like he was butt naked, a grown man, butt naked, fixing to do something to me. So I was trying to figure out, okay, how you know what's the, you know, how can I negotiate, figure this out. And then there was a part of my mind that was trying to pray, like you know, and I was like Jesus, I know you got me, but if you ain't gonna help me, I gotta help myself.

Speaker 2: 45:21

I mean, I got you know he's about to lose an appendage.

Speaker 1: 45:24

Yeah, he was gonna. It was gonna be not good for him. Oh my God, I can't even this is like. But no, but it gets better, like in the middle of all that, as all that's going down. I've got my plan. I know what I'm doing, I'm gonna do it and I've gotta do it because this is the only way out. The police stormed in like four or five of them stormed in and like snatched me up out of there.

Speaker 2: 45:45

So it was like Did you have your clothes on still?

Speaker 1: 45:50

Yeah, well, some of them were off, like he was like trying to get me to strip down.

Speaker 2: 45:55

Were you sorry, I'm just trying to like were you standing up or were you like in the bed?

Speaker 1: 45:59

No, it was just. It was just in the cell still at that point, but I don't know.

Speaker 2: 46:07

Well, anyway, right when he was, the police stormed in.

Speaker 1: 46:10

Yeah, they stormed. It was almost like Wow, Like something you might read in the Bible, like where Abraham, where God told him to kill his son as soon as he left his house.

Speaker 1: 46:21

I was like no, stop. It was almost like, but I was. I was like you know, if you're not, I gotta take care of myself. I gotta do it. I gotta do it. I mean, I'm here so I need to figure it out. But then the police stormed in. They pulled me out. They told me to go pack my stuff. They took me up to my cell that I'd only been in for like an hour or two. They took me up to my cell. I was packing up my stuff and I found out that the Sissy that I was so worried about, the Sissy being my cell partner, it was the Sissy that saved my life.

Speaker 2: 46:51

How did he save your life?

Speaker 1: 46:52

He went and told the police what they were doing.

Speaker 2: 46:54

Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 1: 46:55

And they I think they acknowledged that with him or something and I just said thank you, you know, thank. I was very thank you, thank you. And he just looked at me and he said look, I'm a Sissy, cause I want to be a Sissy, but that's what I want, that's what I choose, but I'm not gonna watch somebody else be forcing and doing something they don't want to do. And so I said you know, thank you. I mean, I was very since thank you Like yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1: 47:25

Sissy saved my life. I mean, they could have killed me in there. I mean, who knows how that would have went, like if I take off a wiener, you know what, oh my God, what's gonna happen next, I mean, but I knew like I couldn't, like I don't care, kill me, take. I'm not doing, I'm not being that, I'm not doing that. So they took me to the shift commander's office and this is kind of where it got worse. They took me to the shift commander's office. They had me sit there for I don't know how long couple of hours, I think. I sat there and just and I'm like I'm shaking, like I'm like I'm still like freaking out and I still don't, I don't want to. I don't understand, like how does this?

Speaker 2: 48:14

So I mean seriously, this is the same day that you were started in the kill bee With hope. Yeah, that you were just like, oh Jesus hope Bible college to the end of that day, someone had tried to rape you in a totally different place. I mean that to me is like talk about a lot can happen in a day.

Speaker 1: 48:40

It was oh, but it wasn't over. It wasn't over, that was just the, that was just the. For me, that was kind of just where it started.

Speaker 2: 48:51

Okay, so you're sitting with the correction officer.

Speaker 1: 48:53

Well, they just took me in the shift commander's office and just had me sit there.

Speaker 2: 48:56

And.

Speaker 1: 48:56

I'm sitting there with my stuff and I think I sat there with for hours before they came in. And then there was a sergeant came in with a lieutenant and they told me to tell him what happened. And I told them exactly what happened, like there was. No, I wasn't trying to sugar, I mean, just here's what happened. So then they brought the guy in, the one that was the like the man of this family, and I couldn't hear what he was saying, but I saw him like waving his hands and doing all this stuff and they came back in and somehow, between whatever conversation they had, they turned it back on me.

Speaker 2: 49:34

The police, the correction officer.

Speaker 1: 49:36

The sergeant and the lieutenant. Lieutenant is a sergeant is like running stuff, he's over the CEOs, but then the lieutenant is the man Like, he's like he's running the whole shift or whatever. So you don't want to get into. If you get into it with the police, get into it with the CEO, because then a sergeant can help you. But if you got a CEO, well in this case the CEOs were for me, they saved me, but then the sergeant was against me and then the lieutenant was against me and they were basically. They said it was my fault. They said I asked for it. Oh my God, where was I from? Did I know anything about prison life?

Speaker 2: 50:15

What did you? How did you respond to that?

Speaker 1: 50:17

Well, I was trying to talk to him at first, but there was something about this. Well, you know how I am If I know I'm right about something, I get angry. And I got angry and I lost my mind, like with them, Like I custom out, Like I said everything I needed to say, and I also, like lost my little self-control that I had from Jesus. Like you know, some people say I lost my religion. I don't like say that, cause I don't think I have religion, but I lost my composure and my self-control and by that time I just was like y'all are great, and I mean I was cussing and everything, and like I didn't do. All I did was walk in there Like I didn't do anything. But they were making comments to each other Like, yeah, this little, this little white one coming here looking all cute, take down the whole house. Well, I told you before I had problems in prison because I was clean.

Speaker 2: 51:16

Right.

Speaker 1: 51:17

And if you're a man and you're clean, that draws predators and it.

Speaker 2: 51:26

So how did it end then with the sergeant and the lieutenant, then then they turned it on you.

Speaker 1: 51:31

We argued for quite a bit. Then they would leave and come back and then like, what do you want? And I was like I want away from him and I stay in here. I'm not living here. Like I don't know, Like I don't know what happened, Like I need to talk to my lawyer, Like I was like trying to remember all the Cause you had only been there a couple hours at this point. I think by that point in the day I'd been there about eight hours.

Speaker 2: 51:52

Okay.

Speaker 1: 51:52

And. But they were making that, those kind of like rolling their eyes, making comments like, yeah, he's trying to bring the whole house. They come here trying to bring the whole house down and I'm like I ain't trying to bring nothing down, I ain't trying to do nothing, I ain't even. I mean, I don't even got to talk to them. I mean, whatever I got, I don't understand.

Speaker 1: 52:11

You know what's happening, but I would learn later on that this was how they ran their prison and in the Alabama department of corrections the warden is sets the tone for the whole prison. So at that time we had a warden I want to say his name, so bad, but I'm not going to say his name, but he was, he was an evil warden. Like this was how they wanted the prison to be ran. Just let them do whatever, let them have their little families and gangs and let them kill each other. We just you know well it was.

Speaker 1: 52:44

It's weird because years later this will be about 10, 12 years later when I opened Chyros Cafe, the warden that was there when that happened to me was one of my customers at Chyros Cafe and he called me. He called me out one day to tell me. And when he told me his name, I was like my, my, my, how things have changed. But he was like he had, like this big cancer on his neck that he got took out and he couldn't talk out of one side of his mouth.

Speaker 1: 53:10

And I mean, I'm not saying that's why, but I was just like I don't want to tell you I'm proud of you, and I was like if you only knew, like I was a product of what, the way that you ran your prison, because it would change later on with the next warden, but it was just evil. I mean, it was just and that that's just how they kept control and it was. It was floated, it would. There was no secrets. Like you know, this is our family and you know the man had a boy. And then, you know, the CCCs were the same. Like they were like prostitutes, like they ran their little part. They didn't nobody messed with him, but they were not necessarily getting people that were homosexuals, it was just somebody that looked pleasing that they wanted to have sex with rape and pillage.

Speaker 2: 54:02

I guess this is whole. I mean just not like the whole like sexual, like underlying theme that seems to be driving all of this. I guess that's because it's just men in prison with men with no women, so it's like there has to be some kind of like satisfying themselves some way. I don't know, I'm just trying to understand.

Speaker 1: 54:21

Why is?

Speaker 2: 54:21

everything so like sexually driven.

Speaker 1: 54:23

Because that's, they allowed it to be that way and it turned into that and it was so bad that my first week while I was there they had a syphilis outbreak. I don't know if you know what syphilis is.

Speaker 2: 54:35

I know it's a sexually transmitted disease.

Speaker 1: 54:37

It's a sexually transmitted disease. There's one way to get it. Well, I think there's two ways. If you use like intravenous drugs, you can get it. But so they like locked down the whole. This was a couple of days. They locked everybody down and everybody had to get a syphilis shot, whether you had, whether you wanted one or not. And I was like I'm not taking a syphilis, like I'm not telling it was these big shots, like the booster on it, where they jammed it up in your hip, and I was like I'm not, there ain't but one way to get syphilis and I ain't got it. So I'm not, but they, it was what they said had to happen. So it was kind of like the syphilis vaccine at West Jefferson, but it was like that mess had spread throughout the whole prison. But it was cause people were like doing, doing the nasty, everybody. It was bad.

Speaker 2: 55:26

How many days after you got there was that?

Speaker 1: 55:28

Like two days. Oh my gosh, it was a shock. The whole thing was a shock Like I never and, to be honest with you, I never got used to that Like this is not real life. This is like savagery. This is like-.

Speaker 2: 55:39

It sounds like hell, honestly.

Speaker 1: 55:41

It was Like, really like how it was, I mean I it was and.

Speaker 1: 55:49

We, let's don't get too far ahead, let's just stay in my first day. So I'm there, we're in this conflict, and I knew that I was probably in trouble because this little Sarge they called him mad dog I cussed him out like I don't you know? No, like don't you, you gonna, you gonna turn this on me. I ain't gonna do this, like you know. But it had created chaos because there was I don't know what happened after that, but it was. It was Basically they were telling me I should have just submitted and learn how to. How did he say you just need to learn how to get along here, you need to learn how to live here. And I was like I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna live like that. I mean Kill me, like execute me, do whatever you want to do, I'm not doing that. So they went back and forth, came back again and then the lieutenant came in, said I said I was gonna put you in lockdown for a couple days till thanks, co-off, and We'll decide what to do after that. And I was like like a like Disciplinary lockdown, and he said no, protective custody lockdown. So I was like man, I'd heard of that but I didn't know what that meant, but it was basically. It was lockdown.

Speaker 1: 57:10

They were putting me in the way they did it. They were putting me in lockdown like I did something wrong and they took me back there, put me in my cell, gave me my stuff, slam the door and by this time the son has said it was nighttime and I was exhausted. I was in shock. I was so confused, I didn't, I just didn't know. And they sales, they were like it was like built out of like those those gray bricks and it was. I was always in there and then a metal Toilet with the sink on top and a metal mirror that you couldn't see through and a slab of stone Before you throw your mat on, and that was in a little bitty window that you could peep out of up in the top, and so I just Made my bed, got in it and and you were by yourself in there.

Speaker 1: 58:08

Yeah, it was just me.

Speaker 2: 58:09

That was mine when kind of nice, huh or no not being locked up.

Speaker 1: 58:13

I mean, it's not a big sale, but I cry myself to sleep and Confused, and understand. Somewhere during the night I Don't know how long I Slap I slept for a couple hours and I woke up and I was like, oh, like oh, that was a dream. Like I had a bad dream I'm still a cubie and then I rolled over and I realized no, it wasn't a dream, it happened. And I was so confused and I, just on the other side, where I'd put all my stuff down, I saw my green Bible and I just I got out of bed and I went and got my green Bible and I took it and I rolled up with it and Snuggled it like it was my mama and I it was the only thing I had I took my Bible and I went to sleep and and that was they won that was different Trying to make you cry but I feel like I can't.

Speaker 2: 59:28

I'm honestly like you think of. I mean I think of you because I love you, but I also think of like, just any like. I mean I think of you know my son and like with these men, all of these men are somebody's son.

Speaker 1: 59:40

Yeah, but it's the game, it's the culture, it's the game, it's the way, it's the system that they've got set up there and it's not easy to break that. I mean, you don't. But for me, the way I see it comes from the top, like if they allow their institutions to be ran like that, they allow that to go on, then I feel like they the blame Rest with them because prison. I'd seen it done differently. You don't have to be like that, right, but that's the reality of where I was, it's the reality of West Jefferson and that's probably. My wife is over here crying, or I boss out. I wasn't trying to make you cry, I'm just trying to. I don't even know if I've ever told you this part of story. I might have like told you, like glossed over it, but this was, this was real. I mean, I almost got gang raped and I could end it up dead behind it, and but you know I would learn, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:00:42

There's something to go out. There's something to.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

I know we have to wrap up, but there's something to like. You know you're getting saved and all that hope and just like even in the face of going to the next prison. You were just like oh, they knew you basically yeah, I mean I was excited and then you know for a minute, for literally a hot minute, six months, and then you hit this like wall, basically when you got to Donaldson, this wall of just Torture and no, this was more than a wall.

Speaker 1: 1:01:14

This was like being submerged into a fire right.

Speaker 2: 1:01:17

But I mean I just somehow I know I haven't been to prison that somehow it feels relatable. I think everyone because we all, like I mean can relate to.

Speaker 1: 1:01:28

Experiences are going good.

Speaker 2: 1:01:30

Yeah, and then something happens. It just feels like upside down wrong and you just wonder why yeah, I Mean that's true if you get.

Speaker 1: 1:01:39

I mean, we've recently been through that With your mom when she got her cancer diagnosis. Yeah, that was that was going through fire was brutal, I mean. And she's with Jesus now and we know that and we believe that, but it was. That was hard to navigate and for me she's not even my mom and I only knew her for, you know, six to seven years before she left us. I can't put my mind around that some why that happened or no.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

Just to think, I can't think. I'd like to think about what happened, you know. And she was, you know, strong. She kept her faith right to the end. She was. She lived her life up to the very last second. She, but still just like. Why, why like? But that's Part of life. You know the things again. I'll end it with this I Put myself in that situation when I decided to do crime and commit robberies. So these are the things that happen when you decide to Roll the dice with your freedom. I never thought I'd end up in a prison like that. If I thought I'd end up in a prison like that, I never would have even Smack my bubblegum.

Speaker 2: 1:02:58

Yeah another thing. It's just I think thank God for seasons, because I feel like you know this is true. I mean, seasons will always change there, always would go to fall, go to winter, go to spring, go to summer, and it's the same. Like you went through that season of hope and life, like before that it was Whatever it was and now you're gonna see one like this now.

Speaker 2: 1:03:18

You're in a season of like, fear and pain, but to know I feel like any of life's ebbs and flows, like at some point the season's got to change Right. That's how I this is my self-talk when I why didn't say that way?

Speaker 1: 1:03:30

I saw something I had to get through right and I had to survive because it was well. It was very real in that place that people don't always make it out of there alive and I don't want to die I mean, I Would rather be dead than being somebody's prison wife.

Speaker 1: 1:03:49

But there's a reality that I had to deal with. But If you flip the coin, if we could go forward maybe the next episode or the one after there was a reason. There was a reason. I was supposed to be there and it's part of my story. Yeah, and it was. It's hard, but I guess.

Speaker 1: 1:04:04

I'm going to get it, but I guess just trying to keep us where we are. I'm in a bad place, I'm not in a, I'm not gonna get pumped, scared, I'm confused and but you know, I still got my Bible and I still got Jesus. Well, I don't know, I was just, I was confused.

Speaker 1: 1:04:29

Yeah and then I guess we're gonna say this now. So I had to say the next one. I had to tell my mom what happened. I had to tell my mom where I was at, what happened and Anything that. I freaked her out before that. This was times 50, you know that somebody, I think I said they tried to make me a prison wife, so they put me in lock up so I couldn't get a visit, I couldn't get anything while I was in there. So here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:04:59

Oh, how was deep and heavy.

Speaker 1: 1:05:01

Well, stay tuned, I'll. In the next episode I'll get to tell you.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

About day two.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

Yeah, this was literally one day. That's insane one day, truly. But I mean it gets better. That's uh. I'm sorry guys, this was a heavy one. Hopefully the rest of them are not gonna be this heavy, but it is part of my story is what is what happened? I'll probably never met you had I not been to there, because I probably never would have moved to Birmingham. Silver lining here, we are All right. Thanks, guys.

Speaker 2: 1:05:35

See you next time.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:05:41

For more exclusive content, head over to our website, teamjonesco slash podcast yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real.

Speaker 1: 1:05:53

Real, which is very different than the highlight real some very juicy Content there good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison Podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:06:05

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it and you know prison recipes, yeah the things good stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:06:19

We'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:06:20

Thanks, bye.