From Survival to Redemption: A Prisoner's Journey Through Faith and Forgiveness

Welcome to another episode of The Straight Outta Prison podcast. Have you ever imagined the raw reality behind the prison bars? Today, we bring you a firsthand account of this harsh reality. Our guest, James, shares his grueling survival story in the Donaldson Correctional Facility, navigating the horrors of targeted gang-rape, and the oppressive confines of a maximum security lockdown in West Jefferson, Alabama.

James, however, didn't stop at mere survival. In this episode, he takes us through his transformative journey, from drawing comfort from the green Bible in his darkest hours to finding strength in his faith. Listen as James reveals how he discovered the path to forgiveness, mentally wrestling with past trauma and finding liberation in forgiving his stepdad. It's a journey that will take you through the pain, reflection, and ultimately, freedom within the prison walls.

As we conclude this powerful episode, James shares about the role of family and the power of hope. Isolated from the world, unable to connect with his family during a devastating loss, he found solace in scriptures and the gospel of John. It's a tale of trust in God's plan, a story of enduring hope against all odds. Hear how James left prison with a renewed hope for his future. This compelling narrative of struggle, survival, and redemption is a testament to the human spirit that you don't want to miss.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:03

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. This is season two, episode seven, and I'm James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:13

And I am Haley Jones, and this is his story. That has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:18

The last one that we taped. I'm actually going to check that as explicit because there are like details in there that I don't. I probably feel like I don't ever want my kids to listen to that, at least not until they're adults. But over the past week, taping that episode has like taken a toll on me. That was so hard because you go through something like that and you know I know the end of the story, I know how it works out, but while I'm in the middle of it, that was that was horrible. And then, you know, I talked to my mom this week and I said don't listen to episode six of season two. And she was like I don't listen to none of the episodes. So I was like well, if you ever start.

Speaker 1: 6:01

Don't listen to this one, because that was the one where they tried to turn me into a prison life and she was like, oh my God, did they touch you? And I was like, no, we've already been through this, Like we've already did it.

Speaker 2: 6:13

But Well, I mean, I think it's good that you told her that and I can just from our conversations talking about recording and then recording last week and now what's coming this week, I mean, from my perspective, just living with you and being around you like and it is definitely, it's almost like because you have all your journals, which is unbelievable. I know I've mentioned that before.

Speaker 2: 6:39

And you can read them and kind of go back there and you feels like in your emotions, like you even said before recorded this one. You said I feel like I need to record it so I can.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Yeah, let's get this one out of the way, so can move on.

Speaker 2: 6:51

This was hard because it's just so heavy and it's just so like. But I mean I have to say I know I'm your wife. Maybe it doesn't count as much because of that, but I just commend you for committing to the process of telling the story, and I know that it's hard and I mean it's just. It is crazy to me that I like know someone, much less than married, someone who walked through something like this.

Speaker 1: 7:14

So Well, honestly, if I weren't trying to be like totally transparent, I probably left this part out. But if I left this part out, the next part wouldn't make any sense. Yeah, like I literally almost got gang raped and they were these guys at Donaldson Correctional Facility. They were in love with me, they wanted me, like they wanted me to be their person, person, but for me, in the way that I'm wired and the way I made, you would have to kill me to make me do that, like I'd have to be dead, like I'm not doing that, I don't care. I mean, I don't care.

Speaker 2: 7:52

This sounds even uncomfortable to say, but I, when you said in love, I think I don't know if they're in love, but they were definitely in lust, which sounds weird, whatever they were.

Speaker 1: 8:00

I mean, we'll talk about this in the next episode, but there's a Bible story about Sodom and Gomorrah and in that story there was a person that lived in the city and these people came. There were some angels that came down from heaven and were trying to like handle business, and they came to Lot, who was Abraham's nephew, and were like tell them, guys, to come out so we can have sex with them. So I mean, I felt like I identified with that story during this time and I'll have a friend later that I'll tell you about Dominic Glick. I'll tell you about Dominic Glover that we call Brother Love. He would always say they're my angels trying to get at you.

Speaker 2: 10:04

And what does that mean?

Speaker 1: 10:06

They're angels trying to get at you because in the in that story, in that Bible story, these people were trying to have sex with the angels. They were men. It was like it was the same. It was like this freaky, like twisted, whatever goes on in that situation.

Speaker 2: 10:25

We need to unpack later because I have a lot of questions, but I want to stay on the story, okay.

Speaker 1: 10:29

Well, we'll stay with this one.

Speaker 1: 10:30

So in the last episode I made my way to Donaldson and I was there for about eight, nine hours.

Speaker 1: 10:37

They tried to gang rape me and turn me into a prison wife and I had a plan where I was going to handle my. I was going to figure out how to handle my own business, but somehow in the middle of that, jesus saved me and got me out of the situation, and it was actually the roommate, who was a sissy, who saved my life by going to get in the police. They came and took me out of there and then the sergeant named Mad Dog, and then Lieutenant, turned it around on me and said it was my fault because I somehow brought that upon myself and I just need to learn how to live at Donaldson and I got very angry. I said some words to them that I shouldn't have said, but in the end so these inmates became my enemies and then the police became my enemies and they told me they were gonna put me in lock up to let me figure it out for a couple of days, let things cool off. So that's where we are now.

Speaker 2: 11:40

Yeah, so, and actually really where we left out, which made me very emotional. I don't know why I could, just I don't know why. I mean, for obvious reasons, it made me emotional. But when you said you looked over and you saw that green Bible and it been your. Bible that you loved and that you curled up with it and just cried yourself to sleep. Holding onto that Bible cause. You felt like that's all you had.

Speaker 1: 12:02

That was my only thing I had at that point.

Speaker 2: 12:03

Cause you were in that lock up cell. That was what eight feet, all by myself and with a little tiny window at the top, like I. Just that was very woo and I was so confused.

Speaker 1: 12:13

I was so confused it's like I didn't understand. I didn't make any sense and I was. There was like a part of me that thought like well, Jesus, when I didn't have you, I didn't have these problems. And like now, what's happening? I didn't, I just it was confusing, I didn't understand.

Speaker 1: 12:34

But the next day, like the middle of the night, there, I remember like waking up at 2 30 in the morning, like with the police beating on my door, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and they were hollering at me and they were saying it was breakfast time. And I said what time is it? Like it, it feels like the middle of the night. And they said it's 2 30. That's when we feed breakfast. And I was like what am I on? Jupiter, or Saturn, or Uranus? I don't know. None of this stuff is making any sense to me. But what I learned from that was, however, they ran their prison. They couldn't handle, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner. So they fed breakfast at 2 30 in the morning and so, basically, you slept half the night. You woke up at 2 30, went and had breakfast and then you slept the rest of the night, which made no sense to my brain, Cause you know how I'm wired, Like I Well it really doesn't make sense, even logically.

Speaker 1: 13:30

But it's crazy, but that's what they do there. I'm pretty sure they still do that. They fed breakfast at 2 30 in the morning, but that was breakfast. It was like they brought me this little tray with their little disgusting prison food and I don't think I ate it. But I drank the juice and then I went back to sleep and that was my first day at my permanent camp in the Alabama department of corrections, which was Donaldson correctional institution, and it was a disaster.

Speaker 2: 14:01

I mean a disaster, so let's keep moving and talk about. So they said you're going to be in lockdown a couple of days. So you said they woke you up at 2 30.

Speaker 1: 14:12

Well, the lieutenant said he would put me in lock up for a couple of days till things cooled off, till I figured it out and I had a problem with that Cause. I was like I didn't do anything wrong. You're putting me in lock up with people that have done something wrong. I haven't done anything wrong. All I did was walk in here and besides all that you said I was I mean not you said but the Alabama department of corrections slated me to go to St Clair. Why am I at West Jefferson? Why am I at Donaldson? It doesn't make any sense. None of this stuff makes any sense to my mind, and I'm so confused and I'm so I'm scared. I'm scared of death Like I've never been this scared in my life. But this was what they decided my fate was going to be.

Speaker 2: 14:58

So during the day, what does lockdown look like? What did you get to do?

Speaker 1: 15:03

Lockdown. You're completely locked down in a cell with like 16 square feet. It's just nothing. You have nothing. There's no TV, there's no. You can't make phone calls. You can write letters. You have no contact with anyone. Basically, you can't go outside, you don't have a yard because, like once a week, they would come around and say you want to go to your call, and I did it one time. They like open up the doors, they shackle your hands, they shackle your feet and they walk you around like this I mean it may have been a hundred square feet, it was like in the middle of hell, like this little grass that was in the middle of this compound at Dawson, where they would walk you around and tell you you can just walk, but don't get close to the other inmates, because two or three people will be out there with you. I think I did that one time and I was like I'm not doing this anymore.

Speaker 2: 16:00

So you were shackled hands and feet and went to that grass place because you were in lockdown. So not every inmate was in the shackles like that, just the lockdown people, the people in lockdown.

Speaker 1: 16:11

But what remember? A couple of episodes back, I talked to you about protective custody, Like people that had like sex crimes, people that were former law enforcement or attorneys, or sex people with sex crimes they'll put them in protective custody because they would get killed in prison. They didn't put me there. That was where they could like, move about and have their own little. They had their own little like space.

Speaker 2: 16:40

They had a little more space in you.

Speaker 1: 16:42

Yeah, they put me in lockdown as if I had stabbed somebody and hurt somebody or did something wrong, and originally the lieutenant wanted me to stay there for a couple of days. He wanted me to cool off and let the situation cool off and then see what would happen. It was bad. I mean, they kept you locked in this little cell and then you could take a shower three times a week. They let you out one at a time, let you take a shower, and you had to. You could do the yard thing once a week in shackles for 30 minutes. But I was like I'm not, I haven't done anything wrong.

Speaker 2: 17:19

Wait a minute. The yard thing where you could go outside was only once a week.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Yeah, it was once a week and it was a disaster. It was like. I just don't know the emotions that I felt with that. It was crazy, but I made up my mind and I resolved. And you know me when I make up my mind about something, I dig my heels in and that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Oh, I know.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Per our fight last night. I know, yeah, I mean all right, we're in 1997 when I'm trying to come into 2021, but I resolved that I'm not living here.

Speaker 1: 17:52

This is crazy. And I'm not living here and, besides all that, I was not slated to come to West Jefferson. They approved me to go to St Clair. So send me to St Clair and leave me alone. I mean, I'm not staying here. So they said the only thing you can do is stay in here and ask for a transfer and we'll see what happens. And then they would come by once a week and they would like ask you what your status was or you know whatever the thing was. And you had to answer them every week and it was like a captain, the chaplain who was supposed to be a man of God, and a couple more CEOs. And they would ask you and I would always say I wanna go to St Clair on transfer.

Speaker 2: 18:35

Okay, wait a minute. I came to ask you what your status was Like, meaning how you're feeling. How are you feeling? Like what, what, is it?

Speaker 1: 18:42

Well, I was in a lockup cell block and there were 96 other men that were in that cell block. 90% of them were in there because they did something like they stabbed somebody or they did something evil or whatever. I was not in there for that. I didn't do anything wrong. All I did was arrive and the way that plays with your mind and the way they treated me and the conditions. I just I've never seen anything like that and it was.

Speaker 1: 19:15

It was so difficult and, honestly, after we taped the episode last week, that was the hardest episode to tape because it was so confusing, so evil. And I mean, as we're going through this chronologically, like day by day or however we're doing it, or season by season, however we're going through it, the first one was very hard for me to tape, like talking about what we did, and then our first, like being locked up. This was like this was the worst. This was hard. I don't know. This week has been hard for me. I think you can attest to that. I wish we could just tape both of these episodes and been done with it, but it's like it just brings it all back to me and makes it so real and I'm ready to tape this episode and be done with it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:10

Okay. So I'm just now thinking about what I just said, like literally two minutes ago, and I said, oh, you could only do the go outside once a week, which is making me think right now. You're only supposed to be in there a couple of days, so were you in there longer, or what?

Speaker 1: 20:25

I ended up totally being in lockup at Donaldson Correctional Facility for six months. What, well, they didn't give me any choices. The only choice I had was to figure it out. Like they came to me. They would come around once a week. They had this little committee that came around One of them. They would always have a captain, the chaplain, who was supposed to represent Jesus We'll talk more about that later and then they would have a couple of CEOs who were like one administrative person, and it was to like, check my status, find out what I was doing. And I was like I don't care what y'all say, I'm not living here, send me somewhere else. And in the beginning I was in the cell by myself, so I didn't know what to do. I was confused, I was-.

Speaker 1: 21:15

And you were literally in that cell all day long Never leaving it 24, seven Unless I wanted to go to your car. They gave me a shower three times a week, which was gross to me cause, you know, I'm a hygiene, but well, you know, I gave myself a shower every day. I didn't care of whether they gave me a shower or not.

Speaker 2: 21:32

What did you give yourself a shower with?

Speaker 1: 21:34

With the sink in there. There's like-.

Speaker 2: 21:35

Oh, there's a sink in there, okay.

Speaker 1: 21:37

There's like a little cell with a slab of concrete that you put your mat on, and then you had a prison toilet, which was a metal thing with a sink attached and then a mirror that you couldn't really see into. But I would just give myself a shower in my sink. I mean, I didn't know what to do. I was trying to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 21:56

Okay, so six months my mind is blown Like six months. That is crazy it was-. I mean, was it like where they just kept adding days, or you didn't know, or they kept? I mean how?

Speaker 1: 22:08

do you go?

Speaker 2: 22:08

from a couple of days to six months.

Speaker 1: 22:10

Because I said I can't live here. I'm not living here.

Speaker 2: 22:14

So then they kept you in lockdown because you said that.

Speaker 1: 22:16

Yeah, pretty much so I found out later on, like later on, I found out like I shouldn't have said that because they will keep me in lockdown for the duration of my sentence. But then there was another problem with that I found out during that time they didn't give me my time served at the judge ordered, which was almost four years.

Speaker 2: 22:36

What does that your time served from your previous prison?

Speaker 1: 22:39

That was the sentence I got. Two 10 year sentences ran concurrent, which means they ran together, which means that I had time served for almost four years, which means I only had six years to complete, which means that I could go up for parole and be done pretty quickly.

Speaker 2: 22:57

And six years.

Speaker 1: 22:59

No, parole doesn't work like that, like if I had a 10 year sentence parole, you'd get a parole hearing in like four years. Okay, I had already done four years, but it's just a twisted way. The Alabama Department corrections-.

Speaker 2: 23:13

So they didn't count that four years. So basically it was like you were starting over there.

Speaker 1: 23:17

No, they never put it in and I was writing letters to my lawyer for my Montgomery, mr DeBell DeBard DeBadeline.

Speaker 2: 23:24

DeBardelaybin, I know some DeBardelaybin. We've already tried this.

Speaker 1: 23:27

I know we've already come to this, but he did, he tried to help me and it was just. It was complicated, it was twisted and, honestly, I've never experienced any kind of pain like I experienced during that time.

Speaker 2: 23:42

Okay, so let's keep moving forward. So you're there for six months. We know what that the day-to-day look like. What did you do with your time?

Speaker 1: 23:51

Well, you know, I was so excited about going to St Clair and starting Bible college Like that was what I needed. That was like in me, like I need to go to Bible college. So I think it was my second or third day in there after they said it's up to you, you decide, and I said well, I'm not living here, and then that. But they abused me over that. Like who is this little kid from Phoenix city saying he's not wanting to live at West Jefferson?

Speaker 2: 24:15

You were sounding cocky to them. I guess I was angry, right, I know, but I'm just saying like what happened to me shouldn't have happened to me. I agree with that, but I can see how they interpreted it Coming from the state of Florida being incarcerated there.

Speaker 1: 24:29

That would have never happened to me there, like there was nothing in them. They were not trying to help me. Yeah, they were my enemies. So the inmates were my enemies. They wanted me to be a prison wife. Now the police were my enemies and, honestly, the prison chaplain, chaplain Lindsey. He was my enemy as well, cause he didn't care about me. He didn't care that I was stuck in a coffin.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Why do you say he didn't care? How did you know he didn't care?

Speaker 1: 24:55

Because he came around every week with a little lockdown committee and he always just, you know, just like whatever you know, let him figure it out. That's for him to figure out.

Speaker 2: 25:08

Okay, so we got a little off. So you said, yes, you thought you needed Bible college. You were excited about that, going to St Clair. I was, and obviously that didn't happen. So you said about day two or three what happened.

Speaker 1: 25:19

I decided, maybe this is my Bible college and I just need to do it myself. So I had my little green Bible and I had been given a life application Bible and I said, well, I'll just use my time to study. That's what I'll do. I'll just I'll figure it out. So over the next six months, I literally took the New Testament apart, verse by verse, letter by letter, starting at the beginning and going all the way through to the book of Revelation, with my notebooks.

Speaker 2: 25:49

How do you study the Bible? Cause I've done some studying of the Bible and I find it well, very difficult one, but, like I always use other books and references, and Google to look up words. So how did you do that? Well, there was not that With just the Bible.

Speaker 1: 26:06

Yeah, I mean obviously I just took the scriptures, I started and I went through the gospels, then I went through the book of Romans and every verse I took it apart, I looked it up in the Greek, the meaning, and well, I've been, I had that like this.

Speaker 1: 26:24

I don't know what you call it, but I got like an understanding that the things that mattered to me, james K Jones, in 1997, was the New Testament. Like after Jesus had done what he did and he had went up to heaven, the Holy Spirit came and then they started, you know, handling business. You know like that's where, like the church of Jesus Christ was born and like the Holy Spirit came and like lit it up and this was the understanding or the covenant between God and man during this time. So I was like I didn't understand that. So I literally took and you know, you've seen my notebooks I've got like 20, I think it's 27 notebooks filled with the scriptures, where I literally took every part of the New Testament apart and studied it verse by verse, and so I thought this is what I'm supposed to be doing now. This is what I would be doing at St Clair. I'm a little less distracted right now so I can just do my thing.

Speaker 1: 27:35

So, that's what I, that's what I sat in, that's what I did.

Speaker 2: 27:38

Honestly, the discipline to do that too is mind blowing to me, because I don't know. I can see that the tendency or temptation if it were me, or, honestly, most people to just sleep, or I'm not, just like, let's sleep as much as I can.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Well, there, was nothing to do in lockdown. You have nothing, you have no TV, you have nothing Like you are locked down like, just like an animal that has bit somebody and now you just need to figure it out. So I would wake up in the morning, I would start studying and that's what I did.

Speaker 2: 28:14

24, seven, that's all I did during the six months, yeah, during that season.

Speaker 1: 28:19

That's all I did, I mean, but like looking back on it now, that was my foundation, that gave me like a understand. I mean I came to a place where I understood the Bible, where it wasn't all the stuff that people try to make it out to be. The Bible, from beginning to end, is the story of Jesus, and he was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It's like when God created man, he knew that we would go our own way because we had we're humans and we had our own free will. And I figured that out during that time.

Speaker 2: 28:54

That's incredible Six months, you did that, so how did it?

Speaker 1: 28:58

come. It wasn't just six months, it was a hard six months. So imagine being locked down in a cell by yourself For most. I mean I would get self partners here and there later on, but I knew that was what I was supposed to be doing, so I just did it. I just every day. I kept doing it. But it was so hard because nothing I could see made any sense. I mean I'm locked up. I mean they've got me locked down in a maximum security lockdown like I'm a criminal. I've done nothing wrong. The only thing I did wrong was arrive and then I caught the eye of these predators who wanted me to be their wives and I wasn't gonna be nobody's wife. I'm not doing that. So I mean I don't know.

Speaker 2: 29:50

The whole thing is hard to hear.

Speaker 1: 29:52

It was hard but I did. I made that my Bible college and I did. I studied literally every word in the New Testament. I took it apart during that time and you know I still have those notebooks.

Speaker 2: 30:08

I still read them, I enjoy them. We've talked about this before and I remember saying to you and still think I mean how old were you at this time?

Speaker 1: 30:17

I was 24 years old.

Speaker 2: 30:20

So 24, so the typical 24 year old is probably maybe still finishing school, depending on what they're going to school for, or working, or I mean it's some kind of responsibility. I mean you're an adult, right. I mean some 24 year olds are married with kids and but for you to be a 24 year old and literally have nothing to do but study the Bible in some ways I know it didn't seem like that this at the time, but was just this gift of time to be able to do that, because even if you've never gotten locked up or whatever and still got saved, to be able to have that time to do something like that is almost unheard of it was, and I had that at Kilby but I was a little more free.

Speaker 1: 31:06

But now is that West Jefferson, which is in the foothills of Bessemer, alabama, where Donaldson Correctional Facility is located. It's like in a valley between a lot of mountains. It is oh yeah, it's hard, but in the summertime I got there right after Easter. In the summertime the heat and the humidity is so you know, if you had AC and all the things you might be like you could make it through. But, contrary to popular belief, some prisons and some institutions have AC and all the things that people talk about. At Donaldson Correctional Facility and Lockdown, there was none of that. So the humidity was so thick that you could like it was like you could reach out with a spoon, and spoon it was. It was disgusting, it was nasty, it was so hard and I honestly at times I felt like I couldn't breathe because it was so hot and it wasn't just heat, it was like heat plus humidity.

Speaker 2: 32:12

I'm from Florida. I know exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 32:14

No, actually you don't, because I know I'm telling you, I've studied this. Like. After I got a prison I went to Las Vegas with Mr, with my first employer. He took us to Las Vegas in 2002. And it's like a dry heat, but in Bessemer, alabama, it's like a wet heat, it's like humid like, but you can't breathe.

Speaker 2: 32:37

I mean, obviously I don't know it from a prison perspective because I've never been in prison. I can imagine it's worse because you're in a building and all that. But I mean I have experienced the like wet heat.

Speaker 1: 32:48

Where.

Speaker 2: 32:49

In Florida.

Speaker 1: 32:50

No, that's not where. I mean literally where, where Donaldson Correctional Facility is located. It's like in between all these mountains and it's like a little bowl. So the heat comes, but then with the heat comes this humidity and it's like it's so hot and so humid that you can't move it's. I've never experienced anything like that and I remember I moved to Birmingham later on and in 2004, hurricane Katrina came through and you know, I remember that that affected my childhood home.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Well, that was very devastating for New Orleans and all that stuff. But you know, at that time I was living in Birmingham and my first home that I bought was a town home south of Birmingham and I remember the guy across the street from me. He came out like stomping this was like day two because all our we'd lost power. That's all that happened to us in Birmingham. We had some weather, then we lost power. But he came out in a little cul-de-sac there stomping his feet and raising Cain and I had the thought, bro, you don't even know what you're talking about. You can take your little. You can take your little ribs and your little chicken breasts, cook them, share them with somebody, because what I experienced at West Jefferson that first summer and then the the the previous two summers after that like if I can make it through that, I can make it through Hurricane Katrina and anything else that comes at me.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Yeah, I mean, I can see that.

Speaker 1: 34:16

It's crazy, but it was like hell it was. It was rough for the purpose of the podcast. It's hard to explain.

Speaker 2: 34:25

So bottom line, there was no AC in your lockdown cell or in any of the prison.

Speaker 1: 34:31

Well, it's funny. You say that the little cubes where the officers worked, those had AC. Okay, nowhere else at Donaldson Correctional Facility had AC. Okay, we had a fan, that like a huge fan in the ceiling that would blow, that would pull air, and then if they had mercy on you and gave you a fan, you had a fan. But they never gave us one of those. So it was pretty rough, but that was what I just I don't know. I was like I had this weird, like I nothing made sense, nothing I could see made any sense. But I just felt like I just need to keep going, keep believing and keep digging Like, if this is, if this is where I'm at, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, then I just need to study the scriptures and just tear them apart. And that's what I did during that time.

Speaker 2: 35:19

Gosh, six months is a long time. Is there anything else that stood out to you, like that happened or transpired during that time?

Speaker 1: 35:27

I think the biggest thing that was like foreign to me was just being sedentary, like just being in that little space for so long. Then I started gaining weight and then like you're, if you don't ever walk around, like what do you do? So I caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror which they have, those little prison mirrors that you really can't see yourself.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Right.

Speaker 1: 35:53

And I was like, lord have mercy, I'm turning into a little fatty. So I started, I just stopped eating any kind of bread that they gave me and I started, at least once or twice a day I would do some kind of workout. Like you know, I turned into a. I don't care, I can do jumping jacks, I can run in place. You know whatever I need to do to figure it out, but I'm not going to turn into mush Cause you know, like, if you well like with your body, if you don't, if you took your arm and you taped it to your side, in six weeks your arm wouldn't work anymore.

Speaker 1: 36:28

It's just how our physical bodies work. And that's scared. That scares the crap out of me, cause I was like I don't know what's going on with me and how I'm stuck in here, but I'm I'm not going to, I'm not going to succumb to that. So I just did things to make myself have some kind of physical activity in between. And then, you know, in the beginning I was there by myself and then I guess it had to do with, like, how many people they needed to lock up at Donaldson correctional facility. So after about two or three weeks I got a like a cell partner, roommate, whatever you want to call it. And the first one that I got. He had been at Donaldson for three or four years and he was scary. His name was Wayne and just some of the stuff he said and the way he talked, and even the way he talked in his sleep, was so ugly I was like what is happening?

Speaker 2: 37:24

And this is still in lockdown. Yeah, so I had him for a little while. So y'all are sharing the eight by eight.

Speaker 1: 37:30

Yeah, he was like over me, like that's what they did.

Speaker 1: 37:33

They just they just keep stuffing people in there, like they're just, we got animals and we just need to keep stuffing the animals in here. He scared me. He was scary but he woke up because he would see me reading the Bible and ask me questions. And he woke up one day and was like I had a dream that I fell into hell and I'm burning in hell. So I was like, well, you need Jesus. So I got to do is ask him. So he had like a salvation experience. But then he got moved out of there back to population.

Speaker 1: 38:05

But then my, the second guy they put in there with me, his name was Jerry and he was like this little young white kid from North Alabama and his story was so sad. I mean, can you give a tidbit of a story? I don't know, I would just cry for him. Like he had the same experience I did, where they tried to make him into a prison wife and he decided that was what he needed to do.

Speaker 1: 38:30

So and I, from what I know, he was not like homosexual, like he didn't, he wasn't interested in that, but he thought that was his only way to survive. So he like succumbed to that, he became somebody's boy and then he had, like this awakening where he thought you know, this is not, I can't do this, I'm not, this is not who I am. So he decided they weren't going to be somebody's boy. And then they beat him up and you know, so he was a boy, then it was not a boy, and then it was no, but then he turned around and said yes, and then nevermind, and then so eventually, after like a year or so, he came to lock up and he was my cell partner and during that time, like I wasn't trying to, like I was doing, I was, you know, doing my things.

Speaker 2: 39:16

You weren't trying to witness.

Speaker 1: 39:17

No, I mean, I didn't even know what that meant.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Right.

Speaker 1: 39:20

You know, I'm only.

Speaker 2: 39:21

Witness means, for those of you that don't know, like try to, I guess, bring people to Jesus.

Speaker 1: 39:27

I mean I cared for him. My heart was broken for him. That was hard what he went through. I mean he was literally like raped over and over. But somewhere during that time he had an experience with Jesus. He got saved.

Speaker 1: 39:42

We started doing Bible study, but his story was very sad. But then he got upset with me about something I said I don't even know what it was something I said to him that affected him the wrong way, and he was like I got to get out of here. I can't be in here with this Bible thumper. And so I was like I'm not a Bible thumper, what are you talking about? You know what are you talking about. So he got moved out and then I had to sell by myself for a little while and, coming to find out he moved in the cell with somebody else that was going to be his man and no, it was just so sad, it was so like he was like back and forth, but he was not. He didn't want that, but he thought it was a way to survive. And then eventually he got moved to protective custody because something really bad happened to him.

Speaker 1: 40:33

So I had a space of time where I was by myself again and it was like during this time, so many things happened to me because I was studying the scripture and I was like I felt like Jesus was like dealing with me, about like my bitterness and resentment and forgiveness.

Speaker 1: 40:50

And I had some experiences where I felt like every day when I would try to pray, I felt like Jesus was saying you know, you have to forgive your stepdad, my brother's dad, mike, like you have to forgive him. And I'll say I forgive, I forgive, I forgive. And I had this crazy experience one day where I was trying to pray and I was saying that I forgive, I forgive, I forgive. And then I felt like I had a vision of Jesus where he was saying you haven't forgiven, it's too deep. And I was like but I want to forgive, I want to be free, I want to move forward. But then I got so confused because he died when I was 17. So I never got to face him and look him in the eyes and tell him what he did to me with my brother, and what he did to my mom and how that destroyed us.

Speaker 2: 41:45

Now, sorry, I know we've have we brushed over this, we talked about it so, but what you needed to forgive him for was for taking your brother, taking my brother and destroying our family.

Speaker 1: 41:56

Yeah, I mean basically what happened to him when I was 10 years old. He was my dad. When I was growing up, like I knew that he was not my real dad but I didn't even call him. I called him Daddy Mike. That was his name, he was my, he protected me, he was the one that I ran to when I needed help. But I was also scared of him because he was physically abusive, not so much to me but definitely to my mom. And then when my brother came along, it was like we'll just figure out how to navigate through this. But then he destroyed it. He destroyed us when he took my brother from me and that pain was so deep.

Speaker 1: 42:33

Like I remember, like the first year that I lived in Phoenix city we were with my mom's sister, brenda, and my co-defendants, older brother Danny, the one that actually introduced us to meth. We were like three blocks away from home and he said, hey, your stepdad Mike is here and he's got your brother, and that's all I needed to hear my brother. I got my brother and I ran. I mean I think I was like 10 or 11 years old but I ran so hard and so fast to get to my brother and when I got there he was lying to me. It was a joke.

Speaker 2: 43:12

He thought it was funny and I hated him.

Speaker 1: 43:15

But I but the pain for me, for my brother, was so deep and I think part of that was cause like not knowing you know where he is, who's taking care of him? But you know, my stepdad had went off and had his own little experience with drugs and then he started dealing with strip clubs and stuff like that and so he ended up with a stripper and then he didn't want my mom anymore and he ended up marrying the stripper and actually they had a baby and all those things. But for me at that time we can talk about that later but at that time the pain was so. That was like my greatest pain was what happened to me during that time, because it took for me the one person that I honestly loved more anybody in this world, and that was my brother. And I knew that I had to forgive and I would say I forgive.

Speaker 1: 44:16

But it was during this time, when I was in this cell by myself, that I had an experience with with Jesus, where he said you haven't forgiven but you have to. And so I was like I'm so confused I don't understand Like if I could have saw him and like told him what he did to me and what he did to us, then maybe I could have forgiven him. But I can't understand how you forgive the dead person you know, because he had been dead by that time, like for 10 years. Like how do you forgive a dead man? Like, I don't understand, and it was the. This experience happened to me one time. It hasn't happened since then. But I had a vision from Jesus and it was as if I left my body and I was standing at the foot of his bed when he was dying of leukemia and I told him I hate you. Like you destroyed. You destroyed my mom, you destroyed me, you destroyed my brother, you destroyed everything by your choices and what you decided to do and I hate you and I hope that you burn in hell.

Speaker 1: 45:26

And then I said in this little vision but I can't do that because of Jesus. Like what he did for me, he was murdered for me. So if I hold on to this against you, it's like setting myself on fire. So I forgive you, and I did. I forgave him from my heart and when I did, it was like I came back to myself and I was there in this little prison cell by myself. But I knew that something had happened that needed to happen and it was so strange. This forgiveness thing was so weird because it like there was some kind of wall that had built up inside of me after that happened with my stepdad, where I had no good memories of him. I had no good memories of his family who are my family. I had no good memories of people in my own family, on my mom's side, and it was just like I forgive and it just like took the walls down and I had like freedom, like it was like that had to happen.

Speaker 2: 46:29

Did you start remembering good things? Some good things.

Speaker 1: 46:33

Absolutely. He was my daddy. He was my father. He took care of me, protected me, he took me, he took me into the circus. He uh when I was scared, he was the one that comforted me. He was the only man that was ever in my house that I've ever felt safe with, and I knew, when he was there, that he was going to take you to the circus.

Speaker 2: 46:54

He had to comfort you. Sorry, we need some humor here. No, but sometimes I was scared of the clowns, but he would. I mean, and he was the one that we do the circus.

Speaker 1: 47:07

He comforted me, I mean, these were just the memories that were flooding back Like this was. This was my daddy, even though he wasn't my biological father. He was him and my mom got married when I was like two years old and I have no memory of my dad ever being in my house and he was my person and, even though he wasn't perfect, I was safe. I felt safe with him, in a sense, like I was always nervous that he was going to snap and do something stupid.

Speaker 2: 47:35

Okay. So I have to say and this is like I don't know if you want me to say this, but like it's so funny that you're telling me that, you're telling me that this now, or everybody at me at the same time yeah, because our first year of marriage, I remember I never knew that Mike, daddy, mike, was ever abusive. You only told me the great things and said he was only. And so I had this picture in my mind to like this, not a fairy tale, but definitely like a, like a good picture of who he was Like you never you literally never told me that he was abusive or any of these bad things.

Speaker 1: 48:16

I did eventually.

Speaker 2: 48:17

You did eventually. But what I'm saying is that it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 1: 48:21

When we got together in 2012, I had just connected with my brother.

Speaker 2: 48:27

Right.

Speaker 1: 48:28

And during that process I'd connected with his family, his grandmother's, grandfather's. These were people I grew up with, and so I was going through a process of like dealing with that. And at this time in 1997, I was dealing with forgiveness and we'll get to 2012 and we'll get there. I don't think we need to camp out there.

Speaker 2: 48:48

No, but I'm just.

Speaker 1: 48:48

It's so interesting to me that, like you know, but it's, that's the, that's the true story of everybody's daddy.

Speaker 2: 48:54

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1: 48:55

You know you, you worship, you, love you. He wrote my daddy's my hero. But if you're honest, everybody's daddy has issues, but his issues was he had an anger problem because I will find out later he was abused. He was very abused, but he was not so much physically abusive towards me, but he was towards my mom. And you know those are. You know we'll get to that later, but those are like sources of like healing that I've had to even in this year, like I've had to deal with you know memories of something that happened that just shattered me.

Speaker 1: 49:27

But being able to come to a place where I could forgive him caused a wall to come down to me that affected all my memories. Before that I had no good memories of him or of his family, or even on my mom's side of the family, like my Aunt Barbara. Somehow I forgot how much she loved me and how much I loved her. I actually wrote her a letter after this. One was like I'm sorry, I hated you for the last 10 years. I didn't realize till Jesus sent me free.

Speaker 2: 49:56

But let's don't get lost in there, okay, okay, so you have this like open vision. So there was purpose in this time, right, but it would have been during lockdown.

Speaker 1: 50:05

But it's so hard, like it's so hard to be locked up like that because you don't. You're like okay, I'm trying to believe in Jesus and all this stuff, but like I'm in a bad place, like this is not good.

Speaker 2: 50:16

Especially thinking of this day and age, you know, when there there's so many possibilities and ways to distract yourself from whatever it is you want to be distracted, yeah there was no.

Speaker 1: 50:25

that yeah. But then I got a second cell partner. His name was Jamie. He had been a runner for some time. A runner in lockdown means it's like they pick one or two people that can run like back and forth and give you stuff and handle. You know, take care of you, cause again in Alabama the police just stay in the little cube and let the inmates do everything else. So this guy, jamie, he was from Etowell County. He told me a story. He had life without parole sentence and he said he was framed. You know he didn't do what they said he did. He came to West Jefferson, I think a couple of years before that, and they had beat him so bad that he couldn't see out of one of his eyes because they like beat him down and then stomped his eye out. Basically, who's?

Speaker 2: 51:14

they.

Speaker 1: 51:15

The other inmates Wow, this was a violent prison. This was not. We're not in Kansas anymore, we're in a violent place where there's no rules and anything goes. And basically what they said the only way you can survive here is that you got to kill somebody or stab somebody, hurt him really bad, and then you can survive. And for me that was not an option. For me I was not, I couldn't do that. I mean, I don't even hunt Like I can't. If I had to go out and kill a chicken to have some chicken and dumplings, we would just have dumplings, cause I mean, like the violence and the blood, I mean that's not, that's just not. I'm not why, cause I can't do that, I'm not and I won't do it. So that was where I was.

Speaker 1: 52:00

But he ended up being my self-partner. He got in some kind of trouble and had to like move back in another cell. He told me a story. I didn't fully believe him, but I kind of believed him. You know it kind of made sense that you got framed, you know, by the police in Edelwald County. That's like Gats and whatever that is.

Speaker 2: 52:19

Alabama.

Speaker 1: 52:20

Yeah, I don't think it was a two weeks in. Like I was like reading the Bible and so I was doing my thing and he started asking questions. He got saved, like just like me. Like it was pretty remarkable what happened to him, but he might have been like maybe a month. In one night, I think, he woke me up and he was like I feel like I need to tell you something. So I was like, okay, you know whatever. And I was like, okay, I'm going to tell you something. He basically felt like that he had all this conviction he needed to tell somebody the truth of why he was here and he confessed murder to me in like a eight, 10 square. I don't know the square footage, but it's very small.

Speaker 2: 53:18

He said eight by eight.

Speaker 1: 53:20

Well, he was on one part and I was over him and he decided that he needed to tell me what really happened and how he got here and he committed a double murder for no reason. Him and a guy were out and he was married and he didn't have kids. We had step kids and they were out and they were drinking and doing their thing and his friend raped some girl, For he said he didn't understand what happened, but he raped her and he said all that was going through his mind was that if his wife found out, he was going to be in a lot of trouble. So she was there, and then another guy was there.

Speaker 2: 54:00

Who was she?

Speaker 1: 54:02

This girl that they killed.

Speaker 2: 54:04

That his friend raped? Yes.

Speaker 1: 54:06

She was in like a truck or something. So he didn't know what to do. So he picked up a wrench and basically beat the brains out of the guy that was with her so he couldn't tell. They left his body there. Then they rode around in the truck, him and his friend, for like four hours with this girl and she knew that they were going to kill her. And they took her out in the woods and killed her.

Speaker 2: 54:29

Holy.

Speaker 1: 54:30

And I was like why aren't you telling me? And he was like I feel like I need to make a confession now that I have this Jesus, like I need to tell the truth. So when he had a life without parole sentence, which meant that he would never get a prison, and I was scared to death, I was like I don't know what's happening here, but you know, jesus, you can do stuff like this. But James K Jones.

Speaker 1: 54:59

I'm gonna tap out this is not no, I mean I didn't understand I was, I was scared and I was confused, but he confessed murder to me and apparently I was the first person he ever confessed the truth to and, from what I understand, he still I mean he'll never get a prison.

Speaker 2: 55:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:17

I mean they murdered two people for no reason. And he kind of told me story later on Like he'd always been into evil stuff and I just I was like how am I here? How am I here with this person? And I remember that night I fell asleep and I couldn't sleep cause I would wake up dreaming of blood and murder and it didn't make any sense but I didn't know what to do. So I kind of I think after that like I couldn't be like sincere with him after that, even though you know I believe his experience with Jesus was real and I believe he got forgiveness.

Speaker 1: 55:53

It's like how are you going to kill people for no reason? And then like why you got to confess to me, like confess to chaplain or something, confess to somebody else, like I can't, and I got to live in the room with it. It didn't make any sense. This season of my life was one of the hardest ones I've ever had to walk through and I got to the end of, you know, my Bible college that I was my self taught Bible college, that I was doing and had literally taken apart the Holy Testament, was getting ready to study the book of Revelation, which is the last book of the Bible and I felt like Jesus said you can read that, but don't, don't study it. The only thing you need to know about the book of Revelation is that I win, so you win, so-.

Speaker 2: 56:41

Real quick when you say he told you that, cause this is something that you reference a lot. Like you say oh, and then Jesus said and then, and then I said and then Jesus how did you hear that?

Speaker 1: 56:51

I don't know that Jesus like talks to me, like in audible. It's just like a knowing, like a sense, like when you get still and you get quiet and this. I had a lot of stillness and quietness during this time, so I mean I was able to hear a lot more than you know. There was no distractions.

Speaker 2: 57:13

Right, yeah, we talked about that.

Speaker 1: 57:14

So it's not like you know, like I got some kind of special gift we all have. We can hear his voice if we'll be quiet long enough to hear it. I mean, I believe that.

Speaker 2: 57:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:25

What if he lives in you? You hear his voice.

Speaker 2: 57:27

So, in your stillness, you were just sure that you weren't supposed to study any further Revelation.

Speaker 1: 57:31

No, and if you're not familiar with the Bible, the book of Revelation is just the revealing of the end times and people go crazy over that book, and especially in prison there are a lot of crazy people.

Speaker 2: 57:42

They go crazy what? What does that mean?

Speaker 1: 57:44

Just reading it, trying to figure it out, and you know they've been doing that for 2000 years. And not just people in prison go crazy, but there are people out here that go crazy over that book too.

Speaker 2: 57:53

They made a movie. I remember I think I was a teenager, maybe in middle school Left behind Left behind yes, it was like a book series. And they made a movie and it was like holy cow, I need to get my you know what together.

Speaker 1: 58:08

You know, I'd never watch that movie because it's so silly, like trying to figure out, like you can't. It's like the people trying to figure out when Jesus was gonna be born. He got born, he was there and nobody even knew he was there because they had it all figured out. So I don't think God is gonna let us figure things out.

Speaker 2: 58:27

Well, sorry, I didn't wanna get distracted, I just thought of that. So you weren't supposed to study that. So then what?

Speaker 1: 58:31

So I didn't know what to do. I got restless. I went through probably about a month. There was a lot of things that happened. This was the fall of 1997. I don't know if you remember this, but princess Diana, she got killed in a car wreck.

Speaker 2: 58:45

Oh, I've always been fascinated with her.

Speaker 1: 58:46

Yes, I do remember that and I just remember like being sad cuz, like I couldn't watch the news or I couldn't. You know, I was isolated from the world. We have TVM, nothing. And then probably the saddest thing that happened to me during that time was my granddad passed away and I had to find that out through the mail to a letter and that hurt for my granny and for my dad and my family my aunt Glen is, you know everybody and it was hard enough not being there for that but then being able to have zero communication because we couldn't use the phone. So that was tough. There's just. This was a tough season and honestly I'll be glad we get down with this one. So, because these last two have been hard to record.

Speaker 1: 59:36

But I got to the end of that and got a little restless and I had found a Scripture that I felt like it was telling my story in the book of Jeremiah in the Old Testament and it was in reference to the nation of Israel when they got carried away captive into Babylon. And in many ways I felt like you know, I got carried away captive into Donaldson or prison, but Because of my own choices don't get me wrong I put myself there. But I was carried away captive. Just like they were carried away captive and in this chapter, the prophet Jeremiah was like giving them the words of Jesus and he basically said you're gonna be here for season, but after you're here, if you will look for me, you'll find me, because I have a good plan for you. I know the plans I have for you, plans for peace and not for destruction, to give you a future and hope. And If you, if you look for me and search for me with your whole heart, you'll find me and I'll get you out of this mess.

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

And I took that personal. That became like, okay, I got carried away captive because I was being a criminal and being a retard, you know all the stupid things that I was doing. But Jesus decided to, wanted to do out of plan, wanted to help me, and I believed it. And it wasn't long after that I found a. All I did was read my Bible and I mean they also do and Right and stuff. But I kind of felt like I was starting to lose my mind a little bit because you know you get.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

Oh gosh, yeah, you were what six months in at that point.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

It was six, six. It was little, I don't know the exact time, but it was six months ish. Yeah and it had been over six months at that time and I started and I came to a realization they're not gonna give me a transfer, they're gonna like they will literally. I knew people that were in there had been locked up in there for years and I just didn't see how you could survive that. I mean, come out of that With your mind intact.

Speaker 1: 1:01:51

Yeah you know, cuz it's just hard. That was so hard and but I was still. I was too afraid To try to live there. I knew that, but I found one night there was like one of those Bible verses that jumped off at me and it was where Jesus. He was talking to me through the word and he said this was in the gospel of John. You didn't choose me, I chose you and I set you aside, apart, and I have a plan for you and and you, you, you gotta trust me but the thing that stood out to you was that you didn't choose him, he chose you.

Speaker 1: 1:02:34

Yeah, it was very good it was. That was one of the most real Things that I've ever gotten clearly to understand. It was, it was real, it was powerful and real. But then what?

Speaker 2: 1:02:46

what made that so powerful for you?

Speaker 1: 1:02:48

It was the way it jumped. It was as if he was speaking it directly to me. It was not, I was reading it in the Bible. It was like this is for you. I'm talking to you, boy, you didn't choose me, I chose you and I set you up a part and I have a plan for you, but now you gotta trust me. And so I was like well, I trust you. You know, whatever, whatever, here I am, I trust you. And I Think it was the very next day I was praying and I felt like he said you're gonna be my man in Birmingham. And I was like Birmingham, you know, because there ain't nothing for me, I want Birmingham.

Speaker 2: 1:03:33

You had never lived in Birmingham before no, my dad did.

Speaker 1: 1:03:36

But I only had bad memories at Birmingham because my mom used to Like forced me to get on a Greyhound bus and ride it for four hours and come up to Birmingham to see him. And I didn't, I didn't like anything about it, but it was because of that experience, but that was weird and I was like well, how do you get from lockdown Sell to Birmingham? I don't even, I don't know they make, they make any sense.

Speaker 2: 1:04:00

And then you thought you're gonna be the man in Birmingham.

Speaker 1: 1:04:03

Well, he said no. He said be his man, I'm gonna his man in Burk?

Speaker 2: 1:04:06

Yeah, not the man.

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

I mean, but it was clear, I mean it's in my notebook, I mean it's, it's I'm not making it up, and but it made no sense to my mind. But I Just was like, okay, I mean how are we gonna make that happen? But he said I have something for you here and the only way to conquer your fear is to go through, like the only way out is through. And so I Came to a realization that I was gonna have to accept that I was gonna have to live at Donaldson correctional facility. And that was scary and it was hard and I didn't know what would happen to me, but it was. He was saying I just need you to trust me.

Speaker 2: 1:04:55

It's so crazy because you're talking about this, you know, in context of, obviously, your experience in prison and feeling, I guess, stuck and afraid and Not knowing what was next and things weren't making sense. But I think I mean I can just think of, even as you're talking, think times that I have felt that exact same way, not in prison, just in Different situations but also it reminds me when you said the only way out is through.

Speaker 2: 1:05:20

Is that what you said? Yeah, that triggered a memory at my mom. We lost my dad very unexpectedly Back in 2012 and they'd been married 30 plus a lot of years. And she, in the months following, she said, when we were just having to talk and talking about just her missing them, that she felt like the Lord had told her that the grief she was feeling, that the how you know, just her grief, that she had to walk Through it and not around it and that if she walked around it, then she wasn't I guess she wasn't gonna experience she. I think she said what experience, what he has for her and the healing and the joy in the.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

Restoration. But walking through is a lot harder at the time than walking around something. That was something just a profound Just a profound, I guess thing that she got, that I have taken and taken to heart with Moving forward, even losing her.

Speaker 1: 1:06:22

It's very, very similar to this. I mean, I can look back on this now and know how the story went and you know, my destiny was tied into me being a Donaldson and, honestly, I would not be sitting here talking to you and I not went through that. And I don't want to spoil the next couple episodes because I mean there's a lot of good stuff that happened later, but I Just had to do it and so I, the next time they came around, I said I need to, I can't do this anymore. I need I, I surrender.

Speaker 2: 1:06:55

So that's what it was all about. You were there because you hadn't like surrendered to come out of the lockdown situation.

Speaker 1: 1:07:01

Yeah, really well, I put in for a transfer. Okay but when you put in for a transfer, they don't. They could, they do what they want to do. And this story, that's not just my story, that's the story of thousands of men that are locked up in the Alabama Department Corrections. They, they did, they bury you and they don't care. And just you know they, just you don't matter, you're nothing so they came back around and you said basically okay.

Speaker 1: 1:07:29

I I accept that I'm here Took my Request for transfer. If you cancel that, just get. I got to get out of here because I've done nothing wrong. I was not in lock-up for a disciplinary problem, so it was crazy. It was just it was crazy. But during that, during that season, I mean, I received so much. I received healing, I received knowledge, I received forgiveness, I learned how to extend forgiveness all while nothing I could see made any sense and I just kept going, kept leaving, I Kept digging, but in the end, you know, I've always been a fighter, you know, you know that.

Speaker 2: 1:08:08

Oh, I know. I mean we talked about we got in a fight the other day and we said I said, when it boils down to it, just hit me. You know, people are either fight or flight and situations like both of us will fight, so there will be no fighting.

Speaker 1: 1:08:30

I learned that the fight that I had to fight now the battle that I had to fight Was a fight that I didn't understand. I had to battle the desire to protect myself and Just to allow Jesus to protect me. And he did, and that was hard. I mean, it's easy to say that on the other side, but it was so. It was so hard, that was so hard and I was I did it scared to death. I did it afraid. I was still scared. That was not like my fear was gone, but like fears like that, when you're, when you do something, when you're conquering a fear, you Don't conquer it by waiting till you don't feel scared anymore. You conquer it by doing it. So I Did it afraid, and I guess that needs to be the end of this episode. But in the next episode we'll talk about going to Donaldson again, how it accepted my fate, just what was next.

Speaker 2: 1:09:30

Yeah, that's it, I'm in the big house. I'm very curious to hear round two, because round one was a doozy. All right, guys. Well, thanks for listening and Thanks for tuning. Anything else you want to add, all right, we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1: 1:09:45

All right. Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast. For more exclusive content, head over to our website, teamjonesco slash podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:09:57

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real.

Speaker 1: 1:10:04

Real, which is very different than the highlight real, it's a very juicy Consent there good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison Podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:10:15

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level, where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it and you will do prison recipes yeah. All the things.

Speaker 1: 1:10:30

We'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:10:31

Thanks, bye, bye, bye, yes.