Inside Donaldson Correctional: A Journey of Faith, Hope, and Transformation

Prepare to embark on a gripping journey into the daunting world of Donaldson Correctional Facility with our protagonist, James K Jones. Can you imagine the fear of reentering the general prison population, having to grapple with the shock of confronting disturbing prison dynamics? Such is James's reality, but in the gloom, he encounters a beacon of light - the Christian Brotherhood, a non-violent prison group that transforms lives, including his own.

This episode takes you on a deep dive into the life-changing power of faith and the inspiring stories it births within the prison walls. You'll hear about Marvin Davis, a tough-as-nails inmate whose life takes an astonishing turn when he discovers salvation. The ripple effect of Marvin's transformation, even amidst the turbulence of prison life, is truly remarkable and not to be missed. From confronting the effects of the prison's drug program to the scarcity of jobs, James navigates these choppy waters but finds solace and companionship that makes these challenges bearable.

As we proceed, we'll explore the extraordinary impact of the Kairos Prison Ministry, and how their "cookie ministry" brought immense joy to the inmates. Join us as we reflect on the spirited debates about the race of Jesus and how song played a crucial role in fostering a bond between James and his Christian Brotherhood. The finale of this rollercoaster ride will leave you hanging on the edge of your seat as we recount the poignant journey of James and his friends, Chris and Glover, who seek to join the Christian Brotherhood but are unexpectedly moved to a violent block. Will Chris Townson survive after he leaves the Donaldson Correctional Facility? Tune in to this riveting episode for an inside look at prison life, the power of faith, and the resilience of the human spirit.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:03

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to season two, episode eight, of the Straight Out of Prison Podcast. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:12

And I am Hailey Jones, and this is his story. That has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:17

So it's our story.

Speaker 2: 5:18

It's our story.

Speaker 1: 5:19

I love our story. Stories are powerful. Me too. It's good stuff. In the last episode, that was one of the most difficult ones for me to record. Actually, you know, going to Donaldson I'm trying to turn me into a prison wife and then spending six months in lockup, it's pretty rough. That's been what 23 years ago, 24 years ago now, and just having to go back to and reprocess that was very depressing. So I think it's good like to get that stuff out. But it has not been. Those have just been hard to do. But this one we're tying this one Donaldson Correctional Facility, because I got to a place where I realized that the only way out was through. I didn't realize it. I felt like Jesus spoke that to me, like I have something for you here, let's go. So I'm moving back into general population at probably the most violent prison in the state of Alabama and I was scared, I was nervous, I had all the emotions going along with it and it was tough.

Speaker 2: 6:31

It's crazy. So you got into what you said the most dangerous prison in Alabama. You were there for not even a full day, where you hours hours where someone tried to make you their prison wife, which means they tried to rape you, basically, and then from there, within hours, they put you in lockdown and then you stayed in lockdown for six plus months. So now this is just a re entering into the, like you said, the what. What did you call it?

Speaker 1: 7:03

The main the main facility it's not the main facility.

Speaker 2: 7:07

The dorm, the regular dorm.

Speaker 1: 7:09

Yeah, just move back into population.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yeah, for the first time since that horrible situation happened. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:15

So that's been a whole the whole summer, spring, summer, and half the winter, half the fall in lockdown.

Speaker 2: 7:21

Okay, so take me to the hour, the moment when you're leaving your lockdown cell and going back up to general population.

Speaker 1: 7:29

I was scared. I was probably more scared after being in lockdown because I heard all the stories and there were people there that had been raped. There were people there that have been. You know, I had a cell partner for a little while. They like beat him down and stomped his eye out.

Speaker 2: 7:46

Do you mean you heard more stories when you were in lockdown of things that have been happening there?

Speaker 1: 7:51

Yeah, okay, okay, yeah. Is that what I said?

Speaker 2: 7:56

I was just being clear, because sometimes you're not clear.

Speaker 1: 7:57

That's true, that's true. That's why, that's why God gave me you. But yeah, so, um, I'd heard so many other stories and basically the rules there was you had to, you had to stab somebody, you had to like remember my story from BCI where I had to hit somebody and I think I almost got knocked out.

Speaker 2: 8:18

Well, I remember you mentioning that. You know, I think maybe on the ride to yeah, the old timer.

Speaker 1: 8:26

The old timer derived from kill me. The old timer told me that um, I needed a knife.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Right, oh right, that was it Okay, so you're walking back up.

Speaker 1: 8:34

I'm going back up Back in. I think it was exactly the same block that I was in for that few hours. But while I was gone in lockup they had started a thing, some kind of drug program at Donelson, and so one side of one block was the drug program there's a really detailed and then the other side was you're waiting to get in the drug program, so it wasn't quite as violent. So they put me in there like they were trying to get me to go in the drug program and I was like I've already been through a drug program. I got the certificate. I'm not doing that again, but that was where they decided to put me for, just for me to figure it out and walking in there.

Speaker 1: 9:16

So it's hard to explain those blocks at Donelson. They are so depressing and dark and there's just nothing but just like concrete and steel. And I got my room assignment and I go in and once again my roommate is a sissy. So I'm like, well gosh, I feel like everything that I've been through over the last six months I'm just starting it over. So it was uh, it was very hard, very depressing, but I just tried to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Speaker 1: 9:51

But it was so confusing for me was because there's nothing to do there. It's like, uh, the dorms at West Jefferson or Donelson. They're very similar to the county jail because they just lock you in that block and you do get to walk down to the chow hall and they don't let you out in the yard. They don't you. Just, you just stuck and I had a cell partner who was an older man but he dressed up like a woman and that you know, just, I don't know it. Just, I was freaked out and then, like the sale there, like he was burning incense and I mean he was nice, but, um, it was just, I don't know, it's just, it's just hard. It was so hard to accept the reality. Yeah, and there was so much, uh, it was, it was just, it's just bad. I mean the whole and the whole, uh, the, the prison family thing, the whole sex thing, all that was going on in there and I was having to see it and it was just, it was tough.

Speaker 2: 10:56

So what next? What did you do?

Speaker 1: 10:58

Well, uh, I don't know, Uh, I was, uh, I was stuck there for for a few days Like I didn't know what to do, like what do I do with my time? I didn't mean, I kept studying the Bible, doing everything I've been doing, and I saw a guy that was reading the Bible. I pulled up on him and we started talking. His name was George and he gave me the G the prison Jesus test.

Speaker 2: 11:23

What in the world is that?

Speaker 1: 11:24

They just ask you all these questions about what you believe.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Uh, do you believe Jesus? And back. You know all the things. And he couldn't trip me up on any of the um questions. Yeah, cause I've been.

Speaker 1: 11:37

You know, by that time I was pretty sharp with my, with my little you know knowledge or whatever you called it. But I think the most, the thing that depressed me the most was I would meet me in there who been locked up longer than I'd even been alive and I would question them you know, what what are you been doing? Like, what have you been doing? You tell them all the time and most of them would say the same thing oh, you know, playing dominoes, drink coffee, smoke a cigarette.

Speaker 1: 12:03

And it just felt like such a waste of just a waste of life. Like, couldn't you figure out something else to do? But a lot of people there weren't many jobs there because it's a maximum security prison and you just you just stuck, you just there, you just passed some time just doing nothing, basically, but in in that season, I guess I just I didn't have anything else to do. So I felt like I just needed to figure out what was next and just do what was next. But I didn't know what was next. But I knew that I had had an experience with Jesus. I knew that God had a plan for my life, but I just couldn't see it working here. I was at it, donaldson, because this was, this place was like hell, and when I say hell, I'm not exaggerating. It was like hell. But I had a narrative that kept going through my mind of a movie that my mom took me to see when I was a kid. It was a officer and a gentleman. You know that movie.

Speaker 2: 12:55

I've heard of it.

Speaker 1: 12:56

Remind me, though, because I'm not, it's it's like a love story between him, richard Gehr and Debra Winger. But then it's like a redemption story for him, because he he come from a really rough background and his his father was a uh in the Navy but like a you know low rank, he wanted to be an officer and to be an officer you have to go to officer training school and uh, he was not officer material and he went to uh officer training school and it's kind of like boot camp where they're trying to like you know, like Navy SEALs, what Navy SEALs, but you know where they're just trying to put all the pressure on you to get you to quit. And he he could do all the like physical stuff and mental stuff, but he had like character flaws, like he was a hustler and he got in trouble for uh something that he did and the drill sergeant kept him back, wouldn't let him leave for the weekend and basically just like made him uh do a thousand pushups and uh scrub the floor with the Q-tip. I mean just just all these things just to get him to quit. And he was pushing and pushing and pushing him and he had him out doing pushups in a mud puddle and he was spraying him with water and he just kept saying, yes, sir, doing the next thing.

Speaker 1: 14:18

And uh, he told him that he wanted him to quit. He told him you know, you're not, you don't belong here, you're not officer material. I want your, I want you out. And uh, he just broke down and started crying and said I ain't got nowhere else to go. You know, I ain't got nothing else. This is all I got. I don't got nothing else to do. I ain't got nowhere else to go. And I've always loved that part of that movie, especially the end, cause he made it through and he became an officer.

Speaker 2: 14:43

But uh, what about that connected Like? Why did you have that in your mind? What connected to you?

Speaker 1: 14:48

Because I didn't have anywhere else to go. I didn't. The only thing I had to hold on to at that time was whatever Jesus had for me and his plan for my life. I didn't have nowhere else to go and I just felt like it was like just just don't quit, just keep putting one foot in front of your other, keep trying and just see. And I'd had such a good experience with my spiritual life at Kielby because there were other people like trying to come along and you know, it was like it happened in the Montgomery County jail. It kind of spread when I was at Kielby. It spread when I got to Donaldson it was like nothing. There was religious people there, I mean, and the chapel there was so depressing it was oof. But then I met a guy. His name was Marvin Davis. He had been locked up for like 22 years. He was part of the hashtag Christian Brotherhood and at Donaldson, what's the hashtag?

Speaker 2: 15:41

Christian Brotherhood.

Speaker 1: 15:43

They call themselves the Christian Brotherhood.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Did they say hashtag?

Speaker 1: 15:46

No, I said that, oh, that's okay. There was no hashtag.

Speaker 2: 15:49

I know Well I was. I didn't know. I'm making sure.

Speaker 1: 15:51

I would have just been a pound sign or a number sign.

Speaker 2: 15:54

So the Christian Brotherhood yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:55

Well, they call themselves the Christian Brotherhood, but they were basically like you had like different kind of gangs in running in Donaldson and then you had the Christian Brothers and they were like a gang and I just I didn't want any part. I didn't want a part of that.

Speaker 2: 16:10

Like they were a gang in the sense that they were violent and manipulative, how you explained other groups Not violent.

Speaker 1: 16:17

They didn't do violence, but they stuck together, hung together, they protected each other and they were like the moral police or something. It was weird because they would walk around and tell them who was worldly, who wasn't worldly. He saved, he didn't really save. Oh, you can't be saved because you smoke cigarettes, or you can't be saved because you play dominoes. It was just something I didn't want to be a part of.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Right, okay.

Speaker 1: 16:40

But I got connected to a guy named Marvin Davis. He had been in prison for like 20 years but he said he had an experience with Jesus where he got saved. And I believed what he said. But I didn't. There was like like no evidence of that, cause he was like mean and he would walk up and down the halls preaching all day, hollering at people, screaming holler, and you go on the hell. And I asked him how long have you been doing this? And he said like seven years. And I said well, in seven years I'm screaming, hollering at people doing it like that. Have anybody like, wanted to like, come along? And he had one guy, julio, that that came.

Speaker 1: 17:26

No, he was African American. He wasn't. There's not a lot of Hispanics in Alabama, I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 17:33

So Julio came along.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Julio came along. So there's two of them that were running around screaming, hollering at people and they would get the Bible out and just tell it's just bad, it was not good.

Speaker 2: 17:42

They were beating people with the Bible like with their words.

Speaker 1: 17:44

Yeah, yeah, and it was. It was ugly. It's not something I wanted to be a part of. And then, um, marvin felt bad. He was a captain's runner so he could run up and down the hall. We couldn't.

Speaker 1: 17:54

Marvin felt bad because the cell partner I had was doing things in the cell that he felt like was not good for me and I didn't like it either, don't get me wrong. But he said you want me to get you moved in the cell with me because I can get it, I can make that happen. I work for the captain. So I was like, well, I was trying to decide do I want to be in the cell with the guy that is doing the things that I don't like, or do I want to be in the cell with the guy that's going to beat me to death with a Bible all the time? And so I ended up I got in the cell with Marvin. He actually ended up becoming a friend to me and he softened up because we would like try to study together.

Speaker 1: 18:31

But I would try to do Bible studies, I would try to, you know, pull people in, and it just wasn't happening and nobody wasn't having it. So it was just like I'm in this, this block, with 96 men, and it was just, it was just harsh and hard and I can't, I can't even explain the. Just just trying to find my, just trying to find my way. Nothing was working there.

Speaker 2: 18:55

Okay, so was there a breakthrough at any point.

Speaker 1: 18:58

Well, I met two guys eventually, next couple of weeks.

Speaker 2: 19:02

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 19:03

So on the drug dorm side they could come over on our side because it was the same one block and I met this tall black guy. His name was Dominic Glover and they called him brother love and he was kind of like, if he was on, if you did any of grandma, on, on, on Glover, he probably a seven because he was just like bubblieve.

Speaker 1: 19:28

I've kind of like Jamie golden just you know, but he was in love with Jesus and he was eager and wanted to learn and you know he. He taught me songs and we just had a lot of fun.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Did they just happen to be on the same block? Like, how did you run into him to even meet them?

Speaker 1: 19:46

I think I probably met them when I went to chapel.

Speaker 2: 19:48

Okay, the depressing chapel.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Oh, the chapel there was rough. Yeah, I mean it was rough, rough, rough. It was a. I don't even know if we want to talk about that right now.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Okay, well yeah, let's stay on the. You had a little break through when you met Dominic Glover.

Speaker 1: 20:02

Yeah, and then we started in.

Speaker 2: 20:04

Enneagram seven you think yeah. I'm I'm sure of it now even though you're not supposed to diagnose, but you can do that since they're not here.

Speaker 1: 20:10

Well, I think I'm an Enneagram one, and Enneagram sevens make ones feel better, right when you're, when I'm around a seven, my spirits lift Like I feel like Charlotte Guffin, or anyways I'm talking about people.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Yeah, let's come back to why this was a breakthrough for you when you met these two or you say two people.

Speaker 1: 20:30

Yes, but I didn't get to the second question. So I met. I met Dominic Glover, and then he started coming over. We started studying together and then I met Chris Townsend. He ended up being one of my best friends, like for life. He was A little bit younger than me but he his story was so tragic, but it was like he had found a way to turn it around. His dad was like a uh, like one of those people that never had a home what do you call that? Like a vagabond.

Speaker 2: 22:25

A transient.

Speaker 1: 22:25

I want to say I get like he was just he just roamed around, just roamed around through four states and his mom left him when he was little and he got in trouble when he was like 17 and he got arrested in Baymanette down in South Alabama, where he's from, and when it was arrested for like something stupid, like something minor, something that wasn't even a big deal. But they know he didn't have anybody to bind him out cause he didn't really have a lot of family and he planned an escape at 17. I think he was 18 and he planned an escape and he took over. He like took over the jail in Baymanette where he's from, and not by itself like he like rallied the troops, you know, like all the other inmates, and they took over the jail. They didn't get out, but they almost did and it was a big deal, you don't. You know, you don't do that. So they sentenced him for that, plus his little minor crime. He ended up. They sent him to St Clair because it was an escape make sure security max, yeah. And when he was at St Clair he was there for like two or three years and the whole time he was planning his escape he was just going to get out, he wasn't going to be in prison.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yeah and uh, I forget exactly how the story goes, but it's the famous like among inmates. The story is famous. They call him lying heart because of what he did. He planned another escape with a bunch of other inmates and this is a max camp where you got people that have life without parole. Right Like, so it ain't hard to find somebody like let's do it. Um, and they actually stole a fire truck and ran it through, ran it through the fence. Okay, how do you steal a fire?

Speaker 2: 24:07

truck of your own prison.

Speaker 1: 24:10

Uh, some, for some reason the fire truck was in one of the gates or something. I don't know the actual details of the story, but they ran it through and got it through one offense but not through two offenses. So then they sent him to West Jefferson and put him in lockup and he got out of lockup and was trying to, you know, navigate that life. That's a hard life. That's a hard life at Donaldson, is it's a hard life.

Speaker 1: 24:32

Well, you did it for, oh, it's a hard life, but he was. He was trying to know when he got out of lockup.

Speaker 1: 24:40

He was in general population, yeah, and it was just he was. It was hard and he didn't have any support from the outside. And there's a group of men and knights that come down in the prison at West Jefferson every January and they stay for a week and they come in every day, or like 50 of them. They just flood the prison and they don't carry Bibles, they don't fuss at you, they just try to love on you and he sat down with one of these guys and he told him like that you know that Jesus loved him, he had a plan for him and he gave. He had an experience with Jesus sitting on a bench there and this had been about six months before I met him and it changed his whole life. And he reminded me so much of myself because he was in, he was in a dark. He was in a dark place, like there were. He told me I'm not going to tell the story he told me he was in, he was in, he was having it rough. Why aren't you?

Speaker 2: 25:40

going to tell the story, cause that's his business.

Speaker 1: 25:43

I mean, you can, you know, you can imagine, you know what he was dealing with, Um, but he was a fighter and you know, he, uh, but he, he, he, he, he, he reminded me of myself because it was like the way his life flipped and he really, he had Jesus on the inside of him, he had a real experience and he was studying the Bible and I was studying the Bible and we I don't think it took us five minutes to become best friends because he, uh, he started trying to trip me up with scriptures and so I was like, keep it coming, you know what? And we, we would do that, we would get in debates and go back and forth and, um, we, we, we developed a fast friendship and he became like for me in that place. He, him and Glover became like little lights for me, like there's some life here. I just got to figure it out. But then I started.

Speaker 1: 26:40

They were in the drug program. Like Chris had went through the drug program and the. The drug program they had then in Alabama was actually a good one because it was all like discipline and it wasn't like the drug program. I've been in Florida and he had learned a lot and he was uh, had graduated, and then was uh, like, um, like a leader, like it was mostly ran by inmates, but you had to like, go through the program, get all the details down and then do that. But that's what he was doing.

Speaker 2: 27:10

So is this the drug program you're talking about? Is this the one that you're currently in right now, the one that you're talking about? That he went through and became a leader.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Yes, I wasn't in the drug program.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 27:21

So drug program was on one side of one block, the right side of one block. I was on the left side of one block. Okay, I know this is confusing. So at, at, at Donaldson every block has, like a cube in the middle, a left side and the right side and they're totally separated by bars and steel and concrete.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Okay.

Speaker 1: 27:41

But they're on the same hall. So if you're in one block, you're on the left side of the right side. The right side was the drug program. The left side was people that were candidates for the drug program. Oh, okay, so that's where they put me there, even though you know I was not a one thing amount. I'm not doing that again. I've already done that.

Speaker 2: 27:59

So you were living on the side that you were a candidate for the drug room? And he was, I had actually been through it.

Speaker 1: 28:05

He'd been through it, graduated, he was actually working for him and was a Pretty good at what he was doing. I mean he's a good leader as far as like inmates and stuff. I mean, yeah, he's the leader in general.

Speaker 2: 28:17

So what was next? I mean, it sounds like he was like if he was planning all these escapes and rallying.

Speaker 1: 28:22

He was leading, but before that he was doing it for not good right, yeah kind of like. You know, me and my cousin, we always did stuff for not good. If we could have Turn that around and did something for good, we probably would have been. You know, we might have been governor or something, but uh.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Okay, so how did those two relationships help you move forward?

Speaker 1: 28:46

or what happened next, I guess, we just started, the three of us, we became like the three musketeers. We started studying together. We started, we were spending hours. You know, they had to work and I didn't. They don't. I didn't have a job. I mean anything to do. Why?

Speaker 2: 29:03

not. Why didn't you have a job or why weren't they giving you a job?

Speaker 1: 29:05

There's not, there's not jobs there.

Speaker 2: 29:07

Oh, there wasn't jobs for everyone. I mean, you can there's?

Speaker 1: 29:09

a few. You have to be real lucky to get a job at Donaldson and and probably the best job was being a chapel worker. But, there was only like I think there was four or five of them. The chapel there was a trip. It was like its own little institution. The chaplain there's name was Chaplain Lindsey. He was the one that came around every week and talked to me when I was in mock-up, so I didn't have anything for him.

Speaker 2: 29:34

Oh, because, yeah, he didn't really act like he cared at all about you.

Speaker 1: 29:38

No, no he did not and then. But he was also mean. He was so mean the stuff he was say, and then he's supposed to be the representative of Jesus for the but anyways. But people told me later that he used to be a volunteer and Loved inmates and also then when he came to the chapel he was just jaded by the time I got to him and he was a good man but I never had any warm fuzzies for him while I was there and it took me about three or four years out of prison before I ever warmed up to him, Just because he was so mean and I didn't. You know. You know they say you don't, you can forget what somebody says. You can get what they do, but you can't forget how they made you feel. Yeah, and he always made me feel like I wasn't, I Wasn't the real deal.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah like you're not in, but he had Three or four chaplain work, chapel workers and they were the ones that got to go back and forth. They got to eat food that we didn't get and you know, they, they, they kept the chapel on lockdown. And then, I think the neatest thing that happened for me during that time, I went to a service and Remember I told you when I was at Kilby there was like a two different religious people that came in two different groups when I'm a more conservative, like church of Christ, and then these people came in with all the suits on and there was a word of faith people. Remember you tell my dad to come in search back.

Speaker 1: 30:58

Well, one of those guys that I met that was wearing the suits, I actually met him at Donaldson again, gil Frank. You know Gil Gil Franks. Yes, randy Walker, I met them at Donaldson during this time. They would come in I think it was once a month. They came in and did a chapel Service and you know they're still friends of mine to this day.

Speaker 1: 31:21

Which is neat and guilt gives listening. So, hey, gil, but I met them just Trying to do one, one thing after the next, and then the Christmas of 1997, and I told you how beautiful my 1996 Christmas was. Yes, christmas of 1997 was None of that was pretty bleak, you know, it was just sad, and this I know. I keep saying that we need to move on from the sadness. Let's just say it was hard, this was hard, this was a hard, hard, hard time was it hard, yes, okay, so up to Christmas.

Speaker 2: 32:00

How long have you been there at that point?

Speaker 1: 32:03

in.

Speaker 2: 32:05

Donaldson.

Speaker 1: 32:06

I'd been at Donaldson since right after Easter. So what's that? Like seven, eight months.

Speaker 1: 32:10

Okay, so seven, eight months total and then there was a turn after the new year. I remember that being that, when 1998 came around, I remember thinking I'm the most depressed that I've ever been in my life and I don't see a way out. And then I was getting bad news. You know, I still had the case in Shelby County. Then I found out they didn't give me my time served, that the judge ordered.

Speaker 1: 32:35

And it was like trying to fight all that. And you don't, you really don't fight those people like they don't care. We don't care, right, you just, you just shut up and do your time and Just feeling. You know, I felt so helpless. And then I'm trying to connect to Jesus and pray. And it's like you said I'm supposed to be here. You got something. What you know? What is it? I don't see anything. I see nothing here but pain. And around the beginning of 1998 there was a little bit of a I don't know if it was like an emotional, spiritual flip in my head. Like you know, whatever I got to do, I'm just gonna figure it out and do it. So there's a prison ministry that's called Cairo's. Have you heard of it? I?

Speaker 2: 33:20

Have heard of it only because of you, but I guarantee you most people that are listening have not. What is it?

Speaker 1: 33:26

It is. They call it interdenominational, which it means everybody's welcome. I think it was started by the like Catholics, protestants everybody. Oh, everybody, they do this together. Okay but it started as a retreat for people, you know, in the free world. It wasn't originally like a prisoner thing, and I think the Catholics call it something. I don't know, I forget the name, it's Chrissie or something.

Speaker 2: 33:56

So what is it?

Speaker 1: 33:57

It's basically they take people out of the world for three days. They usually they go to a campground. You don't have phones, you don't have TVs, you don't have anything. And the people put in this like they call it a walk because it's a three-day, the Methodist call it a mayas, the Catholics call it Chrissie. Oh, it's the same, but it's the same thing.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Okay and it's basically you spend three days just like Disconnecting from the world and trying to get spiritually closer to God. Does that make sense? Yeah, and it's a powerful thing that they do. But they started doing it years and years ago in prison and they named it Kairos, because Kairos is a Greek word for time. That's in the Bible. In the Greek language. There's like different, like we have one word for love I love you because you're my wife. I love hot dogs and I love dogs.

Speaker 2: 35:00

Right.

Speaker 1: 35:00

But in the Greek language they had like five or six different words for love. So there's like agape and eros, and you know I don't want to get lost in that. But in the Greek there's two words for time. There's chronos and there's kairos. Chronos time is like the calendar, it's just like just regular time. Kairos time was like a special time or special season and it means like God's special time. So they wanted to do that with the. They named that for the Kairos prison ministry because they're taking us out of prison for three days when are you going after taking out of prison?

Speaker 1: 35:34

To the chapel.

Speaker 2: 35:35

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 35:36

I mean the drawl was food, like they fed you from the time you got there until you time you left.

Speaker 2: 35:44

So did you just go in the morning and then go back? You had to go.

Speaker 1: 35:48

You had to go sleeping yourself but you were there literally for three days the whole, you know 14 hours, whatever that is. And they bring in like there's like 12 tables. Every table has three or four free world leaders and basically they're just loving on you. That's all they're doing. And there's like little spiritual exercises. They share the gospel and stuff like that, but it's not religious. They're not coming at you, they're not telling you that you're a sinner and you're going to hell and you know God hates you because you're a criminal and it's a beautiful thing that goes on in the prison, but you have to be chosen to go to a chiroz.

Speaker 2: 36:25

That was actually my next question, like how do they choose who got to go to this thing?

Speaker 1: 36:29

Well remember, I talked about Chaplaincy and the chapel workers.

Speaker 2: 36:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:33

They ran that.

Speaker 2: 36:34

Okay.

Speaker 1: 36:35

So you had to have some kind of end with them, like they chose who went.

Speaker 2: 36:38

And how many guys got to go at a time.

Speaker 1: 36:41

I think it was like don't quote me, I could. I can fact check this later. I've got my picture from my chiroz weekend, like 40 maybe, okay, 30, 40. But then you'd have the same amount of free will guys. And they were, and they had these ladies outside the prison in a church somewhere, just cooking all day long, cooking, cooking, cooking. You go in, you got breakfast and you got cooking and they were famous for the cookies, because they the cookies. Just, there was a bowl in the middle of the table.

Speaker 2: 37:11

I can't see this. He's doing cookies like he's throwing a frisbee, like over there. The cookies just kept coming.

Speaker 1: 37:18

The cookies for days. The cookies on the chiroz weekend were so good that the chapel workers would take the bowls where they put the cookies in the middle of the table and they would save the crumbs. I'm serious.

Speaker 2: 37:29

What made them so good?

Speaker 1: 37:31

We didn't have nothing at Donaldson. We didn't have even the commissary, didn't even have anything good to eat. It was just like you were just. It was like bread, and water and meat patties.

Speaker 2: 37:39

You know how these old ladies who were like master chefs, basically oh my gosh, the food.

Speaker 1: 37:45

No, but you know, like when you're on a diet, like, and you don't eat something for a long time and then when you get it it tastes so good. Yeah, think of that times years.

Speaker 2: 37:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:55

You know so it's been years since you've had a real good like a homemade cookie.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Right or meal, all of it but the chiroz prison ministry is amazing, but there's a lot that goes into that. They do it twice a year and then after you go, you can only go through chiroz once, and then if you're a chapel worker, you go through all of them, because that's what they got to do. But you only you could only go through it once, and after that you you like. Once you completed it, then they came in every Wednesday morning and had a little like a small group thing that you go to and then, I think once or twice a year they would do some kind of little. They call it a reunion or something. So this was the best thing going at Donaldson correctional.

Speaker 2: 38:39

It's kind of like a camp. It reminds you, if you say like they had a little reunion, like yeah, to relive the memories Well, then you remember your, they told you, they tell you you'll remember your number.

Speaker 1: 38:49

And so I was like I'm not a member of that number, but this has been. 1998 was when I did mine. I'll never forget I'm James K Jones, chiroz number 27, donaldson correctional facility. So I was the 27th chiroz thing. Like you got a number, oh the 27th.

Speaker 2: 39:09

so when they go in to do this thing, that's those 27th time they've gone in there to do it.

Speaker 1: 39:15

Yeah, okay cool, no, like if I, if I met them now and I've went back and did some of that. I don't want to get lost in this, but like when you greet them, I'm, I'm James chiroz. Number 27 Donaldson correctional facility.

Speaker 1: 39:28

And that's how you like identify. It's pretty nice, it's very neat what they do. But they were gaining a lot of influence with the administration and with the chaplain because there were so many different people coming in and Chaplain Lindsey was like a politician, like they built him a new chapel, they would buy him speakers and chairs. And you know, I had a friend of mine that's a pastor. He told Chaplain Lindsey one time like this is the only prison in the world that you have to pay to come into. Like usually they welcome you to come in. You want us to give you some chairs to get in here. But I mean, that was he was. You know there's not a budget for that in Alabama. So he, he played the game pretty well. But they decided that they wanted to have a Christian dorm, a chiro's door. Who's they, the chiro's people?

Speaker 1: 40:21

Oh, okay because there were tons of them. I mean, they were, you know, probably a hundred of them at that time.

Speaker 2: 40:26

So when you say the chiro's people, do you mean the prisoners who attended or the free will people?

Speaker 1: 40:31

No, the free will people, the people that put on the weekends, okay, they, they put a lot of pressure on them because this is a very violent prison. This is bad and so they would. There's one story of a guy that went through a chiro's weekend and had an experience with Jesus and then. But he had a like a lover, like a homosexual lover, and when he got out of his chiro's weekend, had an experience with Jesus and told his lover that he was a Jesus follower. He killed him. So I mean, yeah, I mean this was a violent place. It's still a violent place. He killed him. Yeah, people died all the time at Dawson. Remember me telling you when I first got there and they told me what they want, what you want to do with my body.

Speaker 1: 41:18

Oh, yeah, it was a, that's a real thing, that's, it's. It's everything you saw in the movies and feared was there at Dawson and that was. But anyways, these people want to start a Christian dorm and they kept. They'd been like hammering and beating and begging and pleading and trying and all that stuff. I was not in. I thought that was the stupidest thing in the world because the, the, the Christian brotherhood right all they did was fight.

Speaker 1: 41:46

I mean, all they did was fight. They would fight over you know mental chiseledek and just the stupid stuff they would find in the Bible. And they fight over and was Jesus black or was he Chinese or was he white or was he this? And I couldn't see how that could work. Like there, there's no, there's no way you can put all those people together, because they don't even, like you, go out to the chapel. And then they were getting fights that like not physical fights but like fights with their words, kind of like what people do now on social media, where they go back and forth and yeah, and pick and come up with it, you know, say this, say that they would. Uh, some of the friends ones ever saw it.

Speaker 1: 42:30

The way the Christians were getting a fight was they would say, brother, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. And then the other brothers saying how I rebuke you in the name of Jesus, well, I bind you in the name of Jesus and I render you harmless and unaffected against me, and then they would go back and forth, back and forth. And I can't, I'm not into all that, I just I, that's my. I ain't doing all that. I love Jesus, I love the word I'm ready so you couldn't see the Christian dorm.

Speaker 2: 42:57

Were they able to make it happen?

Speaker 1: 42:58

I couldn't see it, but it was like it was a big buzz. But so for a time there was me and Chris were studying the scriptures. He had got a hold of this thing where if you believe something, that can happen. So he believes that he was gonna make parole and his first parole date was coming up in 1998. So I thought he was crazy. I told him yeah, bro, you ain't gonna make parole. I mean, I mean you don't make 99% of the time, you don't make it on your first go anyways. But because of all of his escapes and all the trouble he had been and all the things that he had done, there ain't no way right, okay, when you say make parole, does that mean he's gonna get out all right?

Speaker 2: 43:49

let's explain parole yeah, or when you say he's gonna make parole okay in Florida they didn't have parole.

Speaker 1: 43:56

You finish your sentence. Okay. In Alabama there's a board of pardons and paroles. So if you get sentence, to say a 10 year sentence I think Chris had a 25 year sentence so you get a parole date. That means it's usually some years in, so he was like four or five years in and he got a parole date. So you go up for parole and they put you in front of the parole board that's in Montgomery and they read off your charges and then if you have any victims, they get to say either he should get out or he should not get out, and then you have people that go down there for you and or your family can go. Anybody can go to parole.

Speaker 1: 44:37

It's a hearing yeah and that you know, I've went for a couple guys. It's scary, but it's basically, if you have, say, you have a 20 year sentence and you've served, you know, three quarters that or half, whatever it is, when you make parole, you still have that sentence, you're still. You're still sentenced, but they let you out. And then you have parole officer and you can, you know, basically finish your time out in the free world. So it's similar to probation, but not because you belong to them. If you make parole, you belong to parole officer. If your parole officer wants to come in your house, if he wants to come to your job, they can lock you up anytime they want to and send you right back to prison.

Speaker 2: 45:23

Right.

Speaker 1: 45:24

So parole is scary, but you're still out. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Okay.

Speaker 1: 45:29

And we're getting to that. When I get closer to getting out because I may parole Okay.

Speaker 2: 45:33

Okay, so so Chris has had his first parole date. He thought he was believing it. He was like no way bro.

Speaker 1: 45:40

He was. No, I was trying to encourage him. You know, I was trying to encourage him but I was like I don't see it, I don't see it happening. I mean, just because of his I read his his like charges like that's pretty bad, like you don't do stuff like that and then expect us to trust you to go, you know, cause it's not going to work out well for you. But he was believing that and he was just into that, like you know, and studying and doing and all the things. And then Glover, he was trying to learn like the scriptures and stuff, like we've spent a lot of time studying. But he taught us like the old African-American hymns, because he grew up in church and we used to sing like, oh man, I just sing the pain off the walls, yeah, but it was good, it was, it was all we had and we would get together.

Speaker 2: 46:35

So what's something you sang? Sing it Go now.

Speaker 1: 46:39

Usually, when I start singing, people tell me to stop.

Speaker 2: 46:41

Well, I'll tell you to stop after, like one line or so.

Speaker 1: 46:44

I had one song that I sang.

Speaker 2: 46:46

Okay, so what was it?

Speaker 1: 46:48

But Glover would always say he was, he was silly. He would always say, brother James, come, get out and have a ministry. And you know, every, every good minister have at least one song, at least one song. That's your song, brother. Can't nobody else sing that song but brother James. The song was called uh, he's an on time God.

Speaker 2: 47:07

You gotta sing some of it.

Speaker 1: 47:09

I'm embarrassed.

Speaker 2: 47:10

It's just me here.

Speaker 1: 47:12

Well, see, but I would sing the song, and then there will be somebody that would snap their fingers like snapping. And then brother Glover we called him brother love he would go, but it, but it, but it, but it.

Speaker 2: 47:26

Okay, I'll set my fingers and you sing.

Speaker 1: 47:28

Okay, okay, this is awkward.

Speaker 1: 47:30

Okay, he's an on time God yes, he is. Oh time God, yes, he is. Job said he may not come when you want him, but he'll be there right on time. He's an on time God yes, he is. And then there's a lot of, there's a lot of that went to, but we actually added our own. We made up an ending to that. Um, it was. One of them was, you can ask, the children of Israel trapped up at the Red Sea by that mean old Pharaoh and his army. They had water all around them and Pharaoh on the track. Oh yeah, but out of nowhere, god stepped in and made a highway, just like that. Let me tell you, he's an on time God yes, he is. But we added an end to that. There was a inmate named Ricardo Cook who had a. He was on death row. He got saved in the carers. They did a carers on death row. Somehow he got his death, a death sentence, converted into a life without parole sentence and then somehow he got it converted into a life sentence and he may parole.

Speaker 1: 48:47

And you know, amazing story, but he was our hero.

Speaker 2: 48:51

Like he came in, he was our, he was the one, so we he went from like death row to life without parole, and then he may parole to actually get out.

Speaker 1: 49:00

He went from death row to life's up. Parole to a life sentence. Life sentence you can make parole on Okay and then, but you just be on parole for life.

Speaker 2: 49:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:08

And then he may parole and got out and then he started a church and he's been in Birmingham now for about 30 years.

Speaker 2: 49:15

So the song.

Speaker 1: 49:15

I think you've met. I think I yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:17

I think I have to actually.

Speaker 1: 49:19

Yeah, he's a good friend of mine.

Speaker 2: 49:20

So what did you? What of the song did you make up for him?

Speaker 1: 49:23

You said we did an addition to it because there was like four. You can ask Paul and Silas, you can ask the 5000 that Jesus fed, or you can ask Ricardo Cook, chopped up on the death row by the state of Alabama. No chance of making parole. Keep going. Was there more to this. I don't want to be. This is not a singing podcast, I know, but we gotta hear the end of Ricardo's Ricky Ricardo. Not Ricky Ricardo. Oh, not Ricky Ricardo.

Speaker 2: 49:55

Ricardo.

Speaker 1: 49:56

Cook, just finish. Yeah, I can't remember what it was.

Speaker 2: 50:04

Now I can't remember, but then you just we can just jump to, but that guy had fun. Yes he is yes, you.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Yeah, Ricardo gave us a lot of hope. His story gave us a lot of hope.

Speaker 2: 50:17

Yeah, it was good.

Speaker 1: 50:18

But Glover, he was silly Like he was, it's like in his 40s, so he was like double my age, but he was like a little kid that found Jesus and just was just he was, he would believe. I remember he was complaining to me one time about, you know, he didn't have no money. Nobody sent him any money. And I said, well, go give something away, be nice to somebody else. And he was like no brother, ain't finna get ready to do that? And he came back like three hours later, was crying, weeping, and I said what's the matter with you? He said remember, you told me to get something away. And I said, yeah, I mean, I wasn't really like trying to tell you what to do, I was just giving some advice. And he said I got back in my cell and I felt like the spirit of the law told me to give away my hair, grease, his hair, grease, hair grease.

Speaker 1: 51:13

And I only I only have. You know, it was brand new but it was the only one I had, it was the only thing I got and he gave it away. He gave it to somebody. And then somebody came along and gave him a bag or something and so he was just like weeping and I was like I told you to do that. I said do that. But I wasn't that, I was like trying to instruct him or telling him what to do. I was just tired of hearing him complain Like do something else. But uh, glover and I he I guess he influenced me in a good way, but he would do stupid stuff that I would never do.

Speaker 1: 51:50

So we were in a chapel service was packed. It was the Sunday, chapel service was always packed and this group came in and the man was up there and he had on a neck brace and he was explaining that something. He was in an accident, he hurt his neck and we're sitting. We're like middle of the chapel back sitting there, and the guy was talking and Glover leaned over to me and he said I feel like the spirit of the Lord told me I'm supposed to pray for that man. And I said really, I said I thought the same thing, but I was saying, like Jesus, please help the man with his neck.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Like you were going to do it in your seat. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:32

He stood up in the middle of the chapel service and says excuse me brother, excuse me, excuse me, brother, excuse me. We know that the Lord sent y'all in here to be a blessing to us, but we just want you to know that we can be a blessing to you because we's the blessing to cause. We's the church here and me and my brother James want to come pray for you.

Speaker 2: 52:51

And I was like, you know, I was like no, I've already prayed for him and I see quietly.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Don't, don't, don't do that to me. But the guy invited us up there to pray for him and I was like, what are you doing? How did you get me into this? And you know, cause it's packed and there's always free will people and then they got these two little struggling inmates struggling up there and we but we pray for him and it was amazing. I don't know that I've ever prayed for anybody and felt like God's presence, like it was that day. And we went back and sat down and he took his neck brace off and but I would have never done that. I mean, I wish I was more like that. But Glover would do anything If he felt like it was what he was supposed to do or what Jesus wanted him to do. He would go do it. And um, but the guy actually left his neck brace in the chapel. It was crazy, that was awesome, crazy. And then like, um, it was always something.

Speaker 2: 53:50

Okay, before you go any further, we never finished what when Chris went up for parole. And what happened? Did he get parole, did he not?

Speaker 1: 53:59

Let's talk about that in the next episode.

Speaker 2: 54:01

What that's such a cliffhanger?

Speaker 1: 54:03

Well, he didn't. Okay, we can wait, let's wait. Let's wait, cause there was a lot to happen between us.

Speaker 2: 54:10

Okay.

Speaker 1: 54:11

After that.

Speaker 2: 54:12

Okay.

Speaker 1: 54:13

So there was one, the, the, the chiropractor people were doing this Christian Christian, christian, christian, christian on thing and it was a buzz. And you know I'm not doing that, so I'm, I'm praying, trying to figure out what's next for me. You know, we were having the three of. They called us the three musketeers, cause you had, you know, like I was a little skinny white boy and then Chris was, uh, he lifted white, so he had, like that was his strategy. He was going to have big muscles so people would mess with him. He was buff, he was what Buff.

Speaker 2: 54:44

Buff. Wasn't that the right word, like if you're buff, like you have muscles.

Speaker 1: 54:51

Isn't that?

Speaker 2: 54:51

what that means.

Speaker 1: 54:53

You might. I would not say that about another man.

Speaker 2: 54:56

Hey, bro look at, look at, mighty buff.

Speaker 1: 55:00

Uh, he, all he did was work out. So you had me, you had him. They called him lion heart cause he did look like a little lion. And then Glover was like six foot four big black guy, older man, and none of us matched each other. But we had one thing in common and that was that we'd had an experience with Jesus and God was doing his thing in our life. So, um, there was a morning, but they still lived on the. They were still on the drug program side. I was on the other side by myself. So they would come over three, four hours a day and it got more Like they would come over more but I couldn't go over, like I wasn't allowed on the other side, but they were allowed on my side. So it makes sense. So I always had to wait on them to come over. Chris came in, uh, right after breakfast one morning. No, it couldn't have been breakfast. Did I tell you? They fed breakfast there at 2 30 in the morning.

Speaker 2: 55:55

Yeah, you did, you did that.

Speaker 1: 55:57

It was one thing when you're in lockup to get breakfast in the middle of the night, but when you were in population, they woke you up and you had to walk down to. You had to get up in the middle of the night and walk down. He breaks to come back and you had to eat it cause you're hungry.

Speaker 2: 56:10

That's crazy.

Speaker 1: 56:11

He came it was, I know it was early in the morning, cause I was still like trying to wake up he was like they did it, they did it, they did it. And I was like they did what? They got us a dorm. And I was like who? He's like the Cairo's people. So I said that's great for y'all. I'm not doing that. He's like no, no, I put your name on the list and they're moving us right now they're fisting to call your name. And I was like I'm not living and I'm not, I'm not doing that. And he said, well, me and Glover are going. And so I was like, well, I guess I'm going, I guess I'm going. I mean, the only reason I went was because they went and they were going to leave me. You know Whatever was happening to me during that time? I still have like PTSD.

Speaker 2: 57:01

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:02

I actually googled that and looked that up the other day. Pete PTSD Because after we taped the last two episodes, like I've been depressed, like, yeah, bothered, but I did, I mean it. What does that stand for post traumatic stress syndrome? Yes, I, I was still. I was still in a bad place and Just like million and I was still scared. Like you know, it's the same things that happened to me when I got there could still happen to me again. So, accepting the next like whatever's next, and it was just, it was hard, but because they were my only people that I was really like, connected to, and they were my friends at that time, they were my best friends. They were leaving me, so I went with them and so they called your name and we packed our stuff and moved down the three block.

Speaker 1: 57:52

Wow, but we'll probably. We'll probably want to pause that here and talk about that next, because there was a whole another Experience. I'll tell you all about it and how I realized that was the plan that Jesus had for me all along.

Speaker 2: 58:06

It's exciting. So next time we're gonna hear if Chris eventually got parole, or that first time you moving to this new Christian dorm. Well, in.

Speaker 1: 58:16

In process they realized that they couldn't. There's no way to have a Christian dorm. So if you have a Christian dorm, then the Muslims are gonna want to have a Muslim right right.

Speaker 1: 58:28

So they came back and said we can do this like the car was. People want them to do it, but we're gonna have to figure out a way to finagle it. So it ended up being Only 12 of us said yes, wow, that went to that dorm. So they put us in a violent block of 96 men, 12 of us to start this thing, and it wasn't easy. But it was an experience that I'll never forget and it has affected the Alabama Department of Corrections up to this day.

Speaker 2: 59:00

That's awesome what we went through. Quick question before we move on. If you can answer, are you still in touch with Chris?

Speaker 1: 59:07

We've lost touch. Now he lives out.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Actually, I don't know where he is now but Chris Townsend, and do you know if he's in prison? Still no, yeah okay, he would.

Speaker 1: 59:20

He, when he got out, he was addicted to like ministry, like he wanted to do ministry, like go around, talk and do all that addicted to ministry. That's probably something we're gonna have to unpack later at a future, on a future that might be one we could put on the for real, real I mean there are people I mean, we know people that all they want to do is go to church and go to meetings and then they don't wash their dishes, are you?

Speaker 2: 59:43

talking about me.

Speaker 1: 59:45

No, I would never let you get that far out there, no, but anything you can. Jesus is wherever I am Because he's in me. So it's like you don't have to follow all these. You know I'm part of my church. The local church is the hope of the world. But, like, when you get into like these big ministries, then people start following them all over the place and you know I'm not gonna do that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

Yeah, well, let's we'll pause that. There I'm very excited to hear about this next.

Speaker 1: 1:00:13

It was it. It was a miracle of what happened and we'll talk about in the next episode. But we found out later that the administration there we're like give these chiro's people a Christian dorm so that it'll fail and they'll quit bugging us about that. Let them go do it. Just let them do whatever, but it's not gonna work. So just let them do it so it'll fail, so they can shut up. But it didn't fail, so that's a good.

Speaker 2: 1:00:41

All right, well, I can't wait.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

Can't wait.

Speaker 2: 1:00:45

Yeah, I did the next episode. I didn't even like several things we've talked about. I did not know, you know until what? Well, like the Chris thing and Chris towns in and the dominant Glover, and that that's how. Because, truth be told, he James I'm telling you guys now sings that song in our home and like, since we got married, that's my song, that's his. And so, like several times, when the things happen, or we're waiting, or maybe things don't turn out, the way you want.

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

Oh, we sing yes, yes, we sing it your mom Used to love.

Speaker 1: 1:01:20

She would ask me to say I'll be like mama low, no, just just just give me a little. Just give me a little taste.

Speaker 2: 1:01:25

Well, because all the verses are really neat too, because it brings out like stories from the Bible and then stories from the guys in prison, you know like he's like. Ricky Ricardo. I call him Ricky Ricardo.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

Ricardo.

Speaker 2: 1:01:36

Ricardo Ricardo, you know you added all those verses with stories, which is a really neat thing. So I mean that how that song came to be, I guess your song and then also just you.

Speaker 1: 1:01:50

I didn't make up the song. No, that's, that's a, that's a gospel him like an African-American gospel him.

Speaker 2: 1:01:56

Okay, well, yeah, I know you didn't make it up, but yeah but we added to it, we added a lot of verses to it and then also just the, I guess the backstory and the leading into the Christian dorm, like the, because I've heard you know tidbits of after which I know you're gonna share, yeah, but like just leading into, like how that really came to be and how you got there it was a man is a miracle.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

It was amazing. And On the other side of it, when it got good, people started taking credit for it. I mean, even up to last year I'm not gonna say I was in a meeting with, but I was in a meeting with somebody who was a volunteer at that time, who said he started it. And this was in a group of like I think it was a lawyer or something. I was interviewing us and I said you did no. I said inmate started that. And he was like no, no, I was part of a committee. And I was like no, bro, I'm not gonna let you.

Speaker 2: 1:02:48

But here's the deal, but that you only said yes to going because Because of Chris and Glover.

Speaker 1: 1:02:54

Yeah, because Chris and Glover, I would have never even attempted to be a part of a Christian dorm. Yeah the only reason I went was because they went, and the good part of that, though, when we got there and realized they were only 12 of us moving in, was that most of the mean religious people they chose not to go to. So we're in a good place.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

Well, next week.

Speaker 1: 1:03:17

Here we go. Well, thanks, guys. Thanks so much for tuning in and we have started like the first for real real on the subscription part of our podcast and that has been so fun and Loving the feedback. Keep it coming.

Speaker 2: 1:03:31

Thanks guys.

Speaker 1: 1:03:34

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast. The more exclusive content head over to our website to Jones oh.

Speaker 2: 1:03:43

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna give you access to our for real.

Speaker 1: 1:03:49

Real, which is very different than the highlight real Some very juicy Content there good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:04:01

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it in your prison recipes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:14

The thing. We'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:04:16

Thanks, bye, bye.

Speaker 1: 1:04:17

Bye, bye.