Witnessing a Divine Journey: From Inmate to Son of God

Want to learn about the power of transformation within the American prison system? Then this episode is for you. We journey through a narrative of change, resilience, and hope as we share a story from the Honor Dorm at Donaldson Correctional Facility in Alabama. The changes were so profound, it caught the attention of the prison commissioner who is now considering implementing it in all state prisons. Listen in as we discuss the inmates' unwavering dedication and resilience in pursuing their vision for a better future.

One story that’s particularly inspiring is of James, an inmate who experienced a transformative journey of self-discovery, emotional healing, and spiritual growth. He uncovered painful family secrets, confronted childhood traumas, and learned to value the importance of spiritual fatherhood. Guided by the Spirit of Truth and materials of Joyce Meyer, he embarked on a path of emotional healing. The turning point? A divine vision that taught James that his identity was not just an inmate, but a son of God.

Through our discussion, we explore James's transformative vision, the healing power of spiritual fatherhood, and how a change in identity can drive one's future. We also delve into the essence of freedom experienced in the Donaldson Correctional Institution, and how the presence of Jesus allowed individuals to experience healing, find their true identity, and be set free. The journey is not just James's, but a testament to what can happen when hope, healing, and transformation take root in the most unlikely of places. Tune in to this awe-inspiring episode and witness a story that has the power to change perspectives.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:02

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prusin Podcast. This is season two, episode 11. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:12

And I am Haley Jones, and this is his story. That has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:18

So in the last episode we talked about, you know, prusin transformation and how things were rocking and rolling with the honor dorm. How I realized, you know, this was the plan for me all along. It was supposed to be at Donaldson, at West Jefferson, in the worst prison in the state of Alabama, because of what happened the transformation with the honor dorm. And then you know the the prison commissioner coming in and saying this is too amazing, like we need one of these in every prison in the state of Alabama. And then Chris went home and I missed him, but then a cover house became my roommate. Honor dorm is booming.

Speaker 1: 5:54

We're working like dogs. I mean, I don't, you know how I am. I love having stuff to do, especially in that setting. It's a lot easier to pass your time when you have purpose and you're doing something that is just to be locked up. And it was just like a I don't want to say glorious time because you're in prison, but it was just to be a part of something that kind of changed and it was like the reach was expanding. Every day we were reaching more people, people were getting it and things were just changing rapidly and it was so exciting to get to be a part of that.

Speaker 1: 6:26

But then just working yourself, just I was working myself to death. We all were not, I mean, not everybody in there, but those of us that were, I guess, in part of getting it started and there was always something. We're always trying to make something better. We got to do this. That didn't work. Let's try this. But at the same time, I was constantly annoyed with everybody. I was constantly offended, constantly. Just not in a good place, I mean. I still I had Jesus. I did all the things I was leading Bible studies and teaching and doing all these small groups and all these things but there was something wrong with me.

Speaker 2: 7:06

Do you think any part of that was Chris leaving and you missing just your kind of partner and Well, I mean, I think that had a little bit to do with it, but no, it was.

Speaker 1: 7:15

I mean I dealt with the same things when he was. I was jealous of him, right, yeah. And then I was like I just got into these issues Like issues with people, and now I was in a place where our main focus, our main job, was people and trying to help people. But if you're aggravated with people, it's hard to do that.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Does that make sense? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 7:33

And it was. I don't know that the results were incredible, but I was always frustrated with the process because it was. The Alabama department of corrections is corrupt. So you have the inmates that are corrupt, but then the police, the people that run it, they're corrupt as the inmates. So there was always this battle going on in the honor norm.

Speaker 2: 7:53

So remind me real quick just where you were in terms of your term, how long you had to be there, how long you had been there.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Well, I had a ten-year sentence, so, but I'd been given time served of four years by the judge that they didn't give me. So I was trying to battle that. And then I had still had a pending case in Shelby County that we were trying to get resolved. But then I ended up in 1999, ended up getting a parole date for September.

Speaker 2: 8:24

Well, in 1999, is that now it was about? Now we're turning into.

Speaker 1: 8:27

You know, we get to the end. Chris left in the 98, then we had Christmas, then that year I remember it was so weird like there were so many people excited about what we're doing. They were coming in. You know, we had just. It was just. It was crazy. There was momentum for it, yeah, and then there was a flood of free world volunteers, people coming in, people trying to help you, people begging to get in. Like I want to teach a class on this on. You know, it was just. It was a good time.

Speaker 1: 8:51

But I started getting burned out and I got tired of it. I felt like all we did was we had to, like, fight the administration, we had to fight the police, we had to fight the chaplain, we had to fight the other inmates and I just just got to a place where I was just so was getting just burned out on all of it. I was tired and it was. The days were long and they were good Because you're seeing, you're seeing stuff happen, but at the same time I was not paying attention to my own self.

Speaker 1: 9:19

I guess and I mean, you can do that with any job you start getting burned out and there was a teaching like we had these guys that came in and do like these faith teachings and they would come in and say you know, you just need to believe God for a pair of socks. You know, you use your faith. If you don't use it, you lose it, and all that stuff. And they came in with this teaching out of the Bible in the Old Testament, where it said if you write a vision, then it'll come to pass. And so they would encourage us you know, write your vision and pray over it and confess it and do all that stuff. And I thought I like this is neat.

Speaker 2: 9:52

Okay, but hold on, write your vision, like what?

Speaker 1: 9:55

Whatever you want. Write down what you want.

Speaker 2: 9:58

So write what you want in life and believe God for it.

Speaker 1: 10:01

And so I wrote I want out of prison. Well duh, I haven't put my date on it, my date. I've got that somewhere in my old Bible. It says August of 1998, get me out of prison.

Speaker 2: 10:11

Really.

Speaker 1: 10:12

Yeah, you're specific with God and you have to do all these things.

Speaker 2: 10:15

Okay, hold on. You said August of 1998, that's when you were believing to get out of prison. And when did you write that? What year? At the beginning?

Speaker 1: 10:23

of 1998. Oh, at the beginning, when they came in there and started teaching all this. They came in and started teaching all this stuff when we started the honor dorm. So I was trying to do what they said. But then I realized something ain't right with this. I mean because it feels gonna work. But then it worked for Chris, like he did that, he did his faith thing. But I finally got frustrated with that and I was like I don't think this is you know, I don't think this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1: 10:47

And I was reading that scripture one day and it just like a light bulb came on in my head. It didn't. It's in the book of Habakkuk where he said write the vision, make it plain, and then you know it'll come to pass. Surely it will come to pass. But I realized when I was reading that he wasn't writing what he want. In the beginning it said he was seeking God and asking him to give him a vision. Then he wrote it down and I was like, oh, okay, now it makes sense. Like what? Maybe they weren't teaching it that way, but that's what they were saying. You know, write what you want and you don't tell inmates. You know, with criminal thinking. You know, write what you want, because you know you're going to want to Rolls Royce and get out of prison and have a supermodel for a wife.

Speaker 2: 11:31

Yeah, I could write a lot of things that I want, yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:34

But I got to that clarity. It was where it was like you don't write what you want. You ask me and I'll tell you what to write. And so I went to Jesus and I was like I want to write a vision and he told me you'll give me one if I got quiet and spend some time with him. And I did. And it was not what I wanted to write. It was about me. It was about my insecurities, my issues, him wanting me to be whole, him wanting me to love people and trust and you know all these things. And I was like that ain't really what I was looking for.

Speaker 2: 12:06

Looking for the Rolls Royce. I just want to get out of prison.

Speaker 1: 12:09

That's what I want. And I remember right after that I kind of had like a breakdown, like I fell apart, like I just couldn't take the pressure of what we were doing anymore. And there was this little kid his name was Tag, he was one of the kids that we helped rescue. That was in the honor dorm and I was in there talking to him about Jesus and he told me he said, james, I had an experience with Jesus about a month ago and I have him and I'm reading my Bible and I'm praying, I'm doing all things, but I will never be a part of what y'all are doing. And I said why? And he said cause every night, all your little Christian brothers are in here talking about you to my roommate and I can't be a part of you know, I can't be a part of that, like they were gossiping.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Yeah, just but that. But what ended up happening? They were coming against me because I was leading the teaching part and everybody wanted to do their, they wanted to do other stuff and it was, I mean, I try like go ahead, you know, if you feel like, but then it would be awful what they would try to teach Like it was just I don't know, couldn't explain, but I had like a, I had like a breakdown that night and I got a pack of a bugler that's the. In prison they had. Cadillac cigarettes were like cigarettes that you smoke, that are already made, but then big. It was called rip as something you roll up, like you just put the back when. And I rolled the biggest cigarette, you know cause I didn't smoke anymore.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:35

But I rolled the biggest cigarette that I could roll that night and I stood in the door.

Speaker 2: 13:39

Was it more like a cigar.

Speaker 1: 13:40

It was huge and just smoked it in front of all the Christian brothers that were talking about me. But no, it was like there's something, a base.

Speaker 2: 13:50

That is so you, I have to say Well, I wanted to prove.

Speaker 1: 13:53

But they were like, oh cause, there were a lot of them. They started getting rid of religious some of them and then we got a lot of the religious ones in there. They're like, brother, you're a man of God. And I was like, yeah, and Jesus still loves me. I can smoke a cigarette. And he said loves me, and I remember.

Speaker 2: 14:05

But it was just like just like looking, seeing this visual of you standing in the doorway of all these people. You've been teaching Bible study to here in the day like did something or said something about you and you're just like in your face.

Speaker 1: 14:18

Light up. But what ended up happening after that? Like then, I felt guilty, I felt all the condemnation. You know, maybe the thing wasn't real. And that was when Steve came and he said you know, I told you.

Speaker 2: 14:32

Steve was the mentor guy that came in, steve long and I need help me with brother Johnny, I help.

Speaker 1: 14:37

Remember the older black guy, right, right, and he said I'm coming in here twice a week and I'm here to help y'all and I want to help you, but you're gonna have to, like, sit down and do counseling With me and I can help you through these issues. And so I was like you know, I'm not really into the cycle psychology stuff, I don't really care about all that, but I felt like I was supposed to go sit down with him at least one time.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Mm-hmm and so I made an appointment with him. He would meet with us in the library so we had wasn't totally private Mm-hmm, but you could talk and be private, right, that makes sense. But then when he was in there with somebody we would block the chairs like don't go in there, he's meeting somebody. And I started meeting with him every Tuesday and every Thursday For really for the rest of my time that I was there. But the first sit down that we had he just he started asking me questions and I didn't really know where he's going with any of his questions. But we got to the end of our first little hour session and he said, james, your problem is you don't have any boundaries and You're unfathered, and so. But he offended me when he said that. I said, first off, I don't know what boundaries are, I don't know what that means, because I didn't. I don't even know what you're talking about boundaries. And then it's offensive for you to say that I'm unfathered. I have a daddy. You know I have a daddy. I'm James Keith Jones Jr. My dad is James Keith Jones senior. And he said Let me tell you about my dad. And he started talking about his dad and all the Things that his dad meant to him, the things that his dad told him and he said now tell me about your dad.

Speaker 1: 16:18

And I couldn't. There was nothing, I didn't. I had it like it was very humbling and, you know, almost unloyal. But I had to admit I Haven't, I don't, he's right, you know he's. I didn't know, like once you admit that, what do you do with it? Right, and I Didn't want like this psychological mumbo jumbo stuff. I what I mean, I didn't want all you know. Oh, I've got issues because my daddy didn't change my diaper, you know stuff like that. So I was real defensive with him at first and I left out of there and I told cover house, I ain't never meet with that dude again, I don't even like him.

Speaker 2: 18:17

But then didn't like him from the beginning.

Speaker 1: 18:19

I didn't, and then that Thursday he set up a standing appointment. I didn't have to go. It was voluntary right, but I felt like Cut up on the inside For like four or five months. Like, and I'll, every time I met with him I would say I'm not meeting with him again, and then I would know that I was supposed to. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 18:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:43

And it was somewhere during the first month or so when I started meeting with him and I was being honest with him, was being vulnerable, bearing my soul to him, where I was writing in my journal and I felt like Jesus said, james, I'm not gonna get you out of prison. To you, let me heal. What got you in here, wow. And I was like, well, I mean I got saved, I mean I got I'm gonna follow you. I mean, you know, I didn't. I just didn't understand, like what was next. But what was next for me was dealing with my issues and not in a Psychological maybe this psychological. At the time I just didn't want all that right?

Speaker 2: 19:18

Well, I think you're very We've talked about this before a Real and you want things real and if you detect something is not genuine. I guess is another word for it. Then you still farm it. Yeah, I wanted to be something that is genuine, some kind of textbook, like you know.

Speaker 1: 19:37

It's almost. It's almost like I'd seen. They did a lot of this in Florida where you people would say I'll have issues because my mom didn't breastfeed or you know, just come up with all these little things and this is why I messed up and I didn't. And I'm not saying it's an excuse, but in some ways you think, well, it's just an excuse to be you. I mean, at some point you got. I've always had that mentality. Some point you got to get over it.

Speaker 2: 19:59

You mean they're blaming it on something or becoming a victim instead of doing something to change it and do something?

Speaker 1: 20:04

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 20:04

so I didn't want that and I didn't really I didn't understand what's happening but that's funny though, because it's like, almost like if you Acknowledged that that was the case for you, like being unfathored or whatever, or the issues that that somehow you were afraid you were gonna blame something on that.

Speaker 1: 20:24

Yeah, and it was also felt like a dishonor Towards my dad, a dishonor towards my mom.

Speaker 1: 20:29

Yeah and like facing some of this stuff. And I remember one of the first things he had me do he put me through a book by a man, gordon Dalby. He wrote a book called healing the masculine soul and which seemed a little too Like booty booty to me, like I wasn't, but some of the stuff he talks about in there. One of the first exercises Steve had me do was to pray and ask Jesus to show me my dad through his eyes. And when I did, I mean it wasn't like immediate, but I started thinking about my dad and it wrecked me because I realized you know my dad. He was hurt by his dad. My granddaddy was a provider and he was gonna take care of you but he was not. He came from a broken home. He ran away from home when he was 13, you know. He'd been on his own all his life, went to military and then he loved his kids, he loved his grandkids, but he was a provider and he wasn't very nurturing.

Speaker 1: 21:23

No provided things, and money and food, but that was his way, that was how he did, that was how he did his thing. But then my dad married my mom when, when he was 18, she was 16. Then they went through a hell of a time and she ended up breaking his heart and crushing him in ways that you know you don't get over that stuff. And so I started realizing all that and then Steve would want you to come and face, like he caught him, like family secrets and stuff like that, like you don't have to tell Everybody your secrets, but you have to tell somebody your secrets. Yeah, because it's like you're only, you can only be as Free as you are vulnerable, and you don't have to tell everybody, but you have to tell somebody.

Speaker 2: 22:07

Yes.

Speaker 1: 22:08

So we went through a process of that for a few months and then it all kind of Happened for me where I was in the season of two or three months of dealing with this and Talking to Steve and he would give me exercises and I would write in my journal and so you were actually sharing these family secrets with him. You were sure with him.

Speaker 2: 22:27

Yeah, things that.

Speaker 1: 22:28

I wasn't sharing everybody, but I was sharing with Steve right, I mean one family secret. You know, maybe we it's gonna be in the one of the future episodes is that my dad it's not my biological father. I found that out when I was 17.

Speaker 2: 22:43

Right, so James Keith Senior yeah it's not your dad and you are James Keith Jones Jr.

Speaker 1: 22:51

He is my dad, but he's not your biological, biological father. Him and my mom split up when they were, when he was in the Air Force out in Colorado. She got pregnant by another man but she thought she's pregnant by him. The story went and then they got back together, moved to Tampa, florida. I was born, came out with black hair and dark skin and they're both white people and Then all my life they were all in Indian. You know we got Cherokee and Creek and Choctaw and all stuff and I never understood that. But when I was 17 I found out that he was not, that it was true, that there was somebody else that was my biological Okay, this is honestly.

Speaker 2: 23:33

Y'all stay tuned for this story because it is, you know, in a later episode. It's one of my favorite stories as far as a redemption story and just like Insane, but we'll come back to that.

Speaker 1: 23:43

So that was part of it was part of my issues, because my dad was the only one that would tell me the truth about it. And I asked him did you ever meet him? And he was like well, I met him one time. I said what do you look like? He said, well, he was short and greasy. And so I always had issues because I'm, you know If, greasy, meaning like you know, like black hair, like yeah not white.

Speaker 1: 24:02

So I always felt I always had issues like feel like I'm short and greasy because I am, I'm short, I'm not greasy.

Speaker 2: 24:07

So this is the. This is one of the examples of the family secrets that you just want one came out and then like specific, he started off like very general and it was not a rushed process.

Speaker 1: 24:18

It was almost like planting a garden. He was like we're just gonna just keep going. And and there was something about Steve though he's the most gentle man, even to this day he's the most gentle man that I know like he is, um, the way he would pray for me and talk to me and talk me through issues and, you know, help me process and Generally help me which it sounds like you probably needed that, because I love the what you said earlier about that.

Speaker 2: 24:44

For six or seven months you felt cut up inside. I did because I feel like that really helps, like me understand, like how it was making you feel so.

Speaker 1: 24:53

It was like that you had someone like gentle that could kind of it was like I went in there twice a week and he did some kind of surgery on me and it wasn't a physical feeling, but it was emotional and mental and you know, it was that stuff on the inside and just dealing with the stuff. And then but I would get Uh, I would get real paranoid with him because I'd be like, you know, I would see him on Tuesdays, I'd see him on Thursdays, and then I wouldn't see him usually around the weekend. I'd start getting paranoid, thinking I'm telling all this dude, all my stuff. You know what, if he's telling everybody, you know? And I would get like mad at him, angry at him, and then he would confront my behavior.

Speaker 2: 25:30

Why would you get mad and angry at him?

Speaker 1: 25:32

I would just make up reasons to. I was trying to find a reason to stop this because you felt vulnerable.

Speaker 1: 25:37

Yeah, I didn't like it. Yeah, I'd never felt like that before and I was trying to find a way to Stop it, even though I felt like I was supposed to do it and I never stopped, I kept doing it. But then there was a weekend. Really it was one of the most life-changing weekends of my life. Besides, when I came to Jesus, where it was like a Friday afternoon and you know I said in the last episode, joyce Meyer sent us all her materials.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Yeah, so she sent us over a thousand hours of like tapes, cds, books, silbuses and I had been going for like the good stuff you know, like faith and you know Grace and you know stuff. But she had this whole package called emotional healing and I didn't look at any of that stuff because I felt like I didn't need to. I don't need any of that stuff, like we're man in prison. We don't need that's for girls need emotional healing.

Speaker 1: 26:28

We don't need emotional oh my gosh and but the way it was set up in the honor dorm I was over all the teaching stuff so I got to keep all the materials in my cell and the players and all stuff, right, right. So I was in my cell, we would put the stuff out for like eight hours a day and then we'd put it up, because you couldn't leave stuff out like that Because people would mess with it, or you know just just how he did it.

Speaker 2: 26:52

But I'm prison after all. Yeah, and I.

Speaker 1: 26:53

But I kept it in myself. But I had a weekend where I felt like it was the weirdest, like I felt like Jesus said, look up, it's time to deal. And I was like I'm dealing, what am I doing? I'm I'm going and talking to Steve, doing all this stuff, and I looked at the emotional healing stuff that she had and it was. It was like this thing of beauty God will give you beauty for ashes, but you got to give him the ashes first before it gets you the beauty. And it was subjects like rejection I think she called it a root of rejection and then shame and guilt combination and just all this like stuff that I Felt like I don't need any of that. I'm not, I don't need that.

Speaker 1: 27:35

But I was reading in the Bible, in the book of John, where Jesus said that when he leaves that he's gonna send the spirit of truth. And it was one scripture in particular that jumped out at me and he said and the spirit of truth will guide you into all truth. And I felt like he was saying it's time for you to face this stuff like I'm here, my spirit is here and I'm with you. If you'll just walk through this process, then there's something better on the other side and I didn't want to deal with it. But I Actually argued. It was just, I think it was a Cairo's weekend, so I didn't have a cell partner that weekend. Cuz coverhouse was a, he was a chopper runner, so when there was a Cairo's weekend he'd be out there all weekend.

Speaker 1: 28:16

Yeah and it was just very clear. I just want you to sit down and start looking at some of this stuff she's gotten. It wasn't anything, it wasn't like great details, it was just she was telling her story of being abused by her father and I Got interested in it because she started talking about how she hadn't experienced with Jesus, got married, had kids, but then she had all these issues like she was, you know, crazy person when nobody was looking and in her head, and then how God just brought her through the process of dealing with every issue One by one, and how he set her free. And I wanted that.

Speaker 1: 28:50

But at the same time, like it was the stuff that Steve was talking to me about in this Joyce Meyer stuff, it was like touching on things inside of me that hurt, like I don't want to. I don't want to think about any this. I don't want to face this. I don't want, I don't. If it hurts, it can't be God. You know, that was my I guess my theology, but it was that weekend where he said it hurts, but it's like pulling tooth it hurts coming out but it's healing on the other side. So this is what we need to do.

Speaker 2: 29:21

Well, it's similar to you saying you felt like you were having a little surgery every time you step down with Steven.

Speaker 1: 29:26

It's similar it was, but analogy, this weekend it was like three full days. I don't even think I left myself. I went through all of her stuff. I faced the fact that I did have issues with rejection. You know, I was rejected by my dad. I was rejected by my stepdad. I was rejected in school. I was rejected in sports. I was rejected, you know. And you start building up these defenses, right.

Speaker 1: 29:50

And then the shame thing. I didn't really understand what that meant, but like she taught me that like you feel guilty about something you did wrong, like because of something you did, but shame is like you have, you internalize this toxic feeling of Not something you did, but who you are. And I had a lot of shame. I'm not gonna get into any specifics but you know, over my lifetime there was a lot of abuse, things that happened that shouldn't have happened, and she kind of helped me understand that. You know that God made us to be loved and any, anytime our parents or people in authority Treat us in a way that's not love, it's abuse. And I couldn't, I can't say I was abused. You know I wasn't abused. But then, when she broke down, abuse, you know it's verbal, it's emotional, it's sexual, it's physical physical and it's spiritual, spiritual.

Speaker 1: 30:49

And I through that weekend I Just was like, okay, well, if I've, you know, if I've got any issues. I didn't tell me what they are and I started writing in my little notebook and I wrote my notebook for three days and I cried and I wouldn't come out of my cell and I didn't talk to anybody and At the end of that it was like I got it all out. And the way that I got it out was not by talking about it, it was I wrote it out in a notebook.

Speaker 2: 31:17

So when you say you wrote it out, like what exactly were you writing out?

Speaker 1: 31:20

Specific issues, things that happened. You know, there were some older boys that did some things to me when I was young in my family. There were things I saw with with my mom and Some of her basically just unload, unloaded it in the notebook, in the notebook, yeah, yeah and then, but that's what I, that was all I knew to do and nobody told.

Speaker 1: 31:42

And actually nobody told me to do the notebook. I think she was saying you're supposed to talk to somebody, but I don't have me by only person I trusted with Steve and I haven't. I talked to and it was like Jesus was like no, we're doing this now, this is what we're doing this weekend and I got it all out. I got, I literally got it all out. I got it was like a unloading, but it was a facing. Truth is what it was. It was facing it and dealing with it and allowing him To to heal me and put me back together. And he did and it was. It was a process and a still process.

Speaker 1: 32:14

You know Every stage of life. You know I got married. I started dealing with issues. I had kids. You know. Lou was born. I had to deal with some issues. The boys were born. I had to deal with some issues, like every stage of life. That God is always like Taking you, making you better, healing you and dealing with emotions and well, it's pause, because I want to like sit there one more One minute.

Speaker 2: 32:37

When you said you unloaded, you got it all out in the notebook. And then you said and then he healed me from it. But what did that feel like? Like when you got done writing like take me to your cell. I guess, when you feel like okay, it's all out now in this notebook, like how did you feel I?

Speaker 1: 32:53

felt light. I felt I still struggle with the stuff, like with my mom and my dad, like being honest about, because you feel disloyal and you know I'm from the south.

Speaker 2: 33:06

So what makes you feel disloyal? Because I'm like talking about them even though you weren't really talking or just writing in a notebook.

Speaker 1: 33:13

Yeah, but I wasn't gonna give the notebook to Steve.

Speaker 2: 33:15

Okay.

Speaker 1: 33:16

No, I didn't keep the notebook. I don't ever want to read that stuff again.

Speaker 1: 33:19

Yeah and I did. I gave it to Steve on Tuesday. And then there was a part of that when I was like why didn't I do that with Steve? Like I, why didn't I? You know why? I was just like trying to figure it out and I felt like Jesus was like because I'm your person, steve is one of my people and he's here to help you. But I'm your, I'm your healer, you come to me, you, I'm, I'm, I'm God, I'm Jesus, I'm the one that's gonna gonna heal you. And it, um, it was like Like being reborn. I can't explain it. Wow.

Speaker 1: 33:52

The other part of that process no, it was crazy. I would go and just walk around like I was, like I had a new lens, like it was, I could see different. It was just, it was freedom. I was free and it like it was all these things that were holding me back. And I remember that Wednesday, going out to my car, the car was people will come on Wednesdays. We had a little small group and I was just so free, so alive, and I felt like I was like alive fully for the first time. And my friend, marvin Karns, that I met on the chiro's weekend he was out there and he was like James, what are you talking about? Like you're in prison, like how can you even like he was?

Speaker 2: 34:31

his reaction was what were you saying to him when he said that?

Speaker 1: 34:34

Like that. I had this experience where I dealt with something. I mean, I didn't tell any details. Right but that you know. I felt like this you know, if you keep following Jesus, he's gonna keep healing you, he's gonna keep getting you where you need to be as long as you are still like how it started, I give up.

Speaker 1: 34:51

Come in, have your way, do what you want to do. You know your god I'm not, do you think? And this was my time where he wanted to deal with my issues that were holding me. And these were issues that were holding me back to where, like I was wanting to fight people, I was wanting to. You know, I was talking crazy to people, I was getting aggravated and I was miserable, I was depressed. You know it was, it's crazy.

Speaker 2: 35:13

I don't know if now's the time you want to share this, but you shared with me in the past and I don't. It sounds like it might be around this time, but when you had the vision or saw yourself as a little boy.

Speaker 1: 35:25

Uh, we can talk about that now.

Speaker 2: 35:27

I guess I mean because I feel like it goes right into what you're saying, just kind of. It is freedom and healing. Do you want to share that?

Speaker 1: 35:33

I can't. It's weird. I want people think I'm crazy, but well, it was during this, during this time. I mean, I was sincerely seeking God. I didn't have anything to hide from him. I feel like he knew everything anyways. But I would get in these little things where I would Hurt somebody's feelings or make them cry or I'd say something you know, usual stuff and I was praying and I was in the cell by myself and I just said you know, jesus, what's the matter with me? You know what, what is the matter with me? And he gave me a vision of a little boy and I knew the little boy was me. It was like five or six year old and he had holes in him, all through him, and he said the problem, this is your problem, but I can, I can feel those holes.

Speaker 2: 36:23

What did those holes represent, do you think?

Speaker 1: 36:26

Just my life, the things that I've been through, my life hurt the pain hurt pain life experiences, things that may be. Up until that time, I'd never told anybody Things that happened, things I did, things that were done to me, but that he wanted me to be a hole, and it was. I Might have been like three or four days after that I was praying again. You know, like whatever you want to do, do it. I'm here. I ain't got nowhere else to be.

Speaker 2: 36:58

After the notebook thing. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 37:00

I had another vision and it's crazy. I haven't had anything since been 20 something years ago. I've never had that like that again. But it was, there was a man standing over me and I looked up and the man was like 25 feet tall and his face was my face and he said I'm your father, I want to be your father, I'm the God, I want to be your father if you'll be my son. And I was like, okay, this is a little too weird, but I don't think he wasn't saying that.

Speaker 1: 37:30

It was like a way for me to understand that God of the universe that created everything Sent his son To pay for everything I've ever done and everything ever done to me and through that, because what Jesus did his crucifixion, being murdered on the cross, dying, being buried and being raised again that he can take me to the father and that I can become a son of God and that didn't make any sense to my mind and the vision I think God speaks to everybody in different ways for them to understand.

Speaker 1: 38:06

I got it when I saw the face Was my face was that he was my father and I was his son, and it Totally changed something in me. It was like it's almost like I felt like like a weight dropped on me that I was gonna be okay and that somehow I didn't understand my mind, but that God it wants to be my father, like it doesn't matter. My biological father is that matter, that my legal father never wanted me, and it was crazy and you see, because before I think you told me you saw those holes Fill in that was after that.

Speaker 1: 38:43

Okay, he said he wanted to fill those. Yeah, actually, he said, I'm the only one that can fill those holes. And we do when we have issue. We all have holes. We fill them with other things. We fill them with drugs, we fill the money, we fill them alcohol, we fill them with, you know, power, and Even like toxic relationships.

Speaker 1: 39:02

Oh yeah, that's the worst. Those are the worst, because you're seeking to get something from someone else, or A thing, something that only God can give you, and he wants to give it to us. He wants us to be free, and it was. It transformed my life. It transformed my life, it transformed my mind and, you know, maybe when we're talking about doing a companion podcast To this, where we just do like a teaching, some of the stuff that I learned, this will definitely be out. I actually wrote an article on this. I called it facing truth and send it in to somebody, and they sent it back and said, no, we don't want that. This is when I was in prison, my first. All the guys, all the guys were like, oh, james got his first rejection letter and then, but you know, it's just part of the process, but it's.

Speaker 2: 39:50

I mean this when you start talking about dealing with issues, it's deep so real quick for those that might wonder, and I wonder you said this vision, were you asleep or awake? I was awake. Okay, I was those when you're praying and you just kind of saw like a daydream, I guess kind of well, no, I have my eyes closed. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:06

I was, but I saw it. I saw myself with holes and then I saw him as my father Standing over me saying I, if you'll just let me, I won't, I'll be your father. And he has proved that over the last 20 plus years, you know, but it's. It's not like a ooty-booty type thing, but it's just dealing with issues, and it was during that season that God, he just like swooped in and put me back together and it was crazy, because I'm still in prison. You know, the honor dorm is doing good, but still you're in prison. I was more alive than I'd ever been in my life and it it gave me like hope for the future and I stopped worrying about getting out of prison.

Speaker 1: 40:49

I knew I was gonna get a prison when I was supposed to right and After that I Did something I don't even know how we came up with this like I wrote some of this out like in like a, like a study thing, and I had a friend, terry Bush. He worked out of the chaplain and he had a computer and so I would write out these lessons and he would type them out for me, bring them back to me and make copies for me. So the first ones I wrote out were on like dealing with issues and they just went ever we, they went through the whole prison. And then there was a Joyce Meyer had like for teachings on guilt and condemnation and why.

Speaker 1: 41:32

You know that Jesus wants to set us free from feeling guilty. Like he didn't come. He came to free us and if we mess up, we just need to confess our sin. Like I missed, I Messed up for giving me helping to better move on. Yeah, like the freedom. But she like did this detailed. You know like Try not to try and just trust in, and you know Seven things that guilt and condemnation will bring you.

Speaker 1: 41:56

And you know, I put them into these little. I still have those. We sent them throughout the whole prison. They were doing Bible studies all over the prison with those four I Think I did like ten, but those four were the ones that like stuck like everybody. Everybody was doing the small groups to get them kind of in every part of the prison. I was in them home. I was soon to my cousin Lisa. I was sitting on my granny like I just don't trust me. Just you get a Bible and read and look at this. You know. You know you don't have to be, you know how to, you don't have to stay stuck you wanted that for other people?

Speaker 1: 42:26

Oh yeah, but what ended up happening after that? I Didn't never tell my story like, because they used to let us speak like at certain things or tell Especially on them, because we were, we coordinated all this stuff. So if we didn't have a free world person coming in, we would do it share a testimony.

Speaker 1: 42:44

Yeah, yeah, so I never really got where. I did it like openly and publicly, other than the grace and the guilt myself. But I started telling my story of what happened to me in small groups of men like two or three, mm-hmm, and it was just it's crazy, the stories that flooded out after that, just just flooding.

Speaker 2: 43:03

I just guys from other people.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Yes, like one guy telling me you know that his earliest memory was getting molested by his neighbor and you know how he had never told anybody that. And then just it was. I'm just the freedom we were. All we were experiencing freedom at Donaldson correctional institution in a way that I've not seen it since. And it may just Spin, because we were all there and it was like I was just breathing there and we were all desperate.

Speaker 1: 43:29

But there was a we did one of these, those small groups, and there was a little kid that had been in the honor for like two weeks and he was like I got a kid of y'all something and he ran up to a cell and came back and he had his, all of his pornography. He brought it down. He was like I don't, I don't want this anymore, I want to be free, I don't you know. And it was just we. It was just we. It was like Just guy was moving and people were getting healed and people were getting out of prison and people were getting set free and I was just in a, an amazing place and Holly went from a very low place to the freest place you've ever been well, I always say we think we got ourselves together, like we got it, I got this, I'm good, and.

Speaker 1: 44:15

But usually when you say that it means that you don't. Yeah, you know, and I learned that and work with guys at the foundry, like when you think you got all together and you know you have all answers and you know that she's a good sign that you don't. And there's actually a scripture in one of Paul's letters where he says If you think you're standing so strong, you need to be careful, because that means you're fist in the fall, like so we all need that. You need to approach stuff like this like in the spirit of humility. And you know I always I mean I know I know the work that God's done in my life, I know I've seen the miracles, you know the then and since then, but I always have to stay, you know, stand back and be humble.

Speaker 1: 44:58

I know that. You know this is not the same about me, it's about him. But honestly, dealing with issues like this was Part of my story. But I think that it's the reason why most guys come out of prison and don't make it Because they don't. They have. They may have had an experience with Jesus, they may have had some kind of training, but they haven't dealt with like these core, like this is your identity, these kind of things that that keep you bound up and hurt and pain and shame and rejection and all the things, and you know just the unfathored aspect of that. I don't know if I said this already, but I started developing relationship with different men that were opposites, like Steve was more like a counselor and he's a pastor and he has a Bible uses about, but he doesn't like you, he doesn't like talking Bible language, like he just talks to you right Like a conversation.

Speaker 1: 46:00

Yeah, he's like a counselor, right, and he's, he's good at like strategy and he was a mentor. But then God sent me, like Marvin, he was a person that was like a father to me, but in a different way because he didn't. He was more like real, like this is what we're gonna do. Then he's you know the world victory church guys came in. There was a guy the one associate pastor there's. His name was Tommy. He became like a different aspect of a father and it was crazy, like towards the end of this like Steve Steve helped me see it like you got like seven men that love you, that you love that you're getting different things from them.

Speaker 2: 46:39

And that you respected, and I didn't different reasons.

Speaker 1: 46:41

Yeah, but that I would have got from my daddy if he had been present in my life, like my dad would have been my person. But now God was not gonna give me another daddy because he wanted to be my daddy, like my father in heaven, right, but he gave me these people, these men that were giving me different aspects, like helping me grow up and become a man, but out of all of them, steve had the most influence because he was the. He was like my Anchor.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Well, it's like he helped. You see that what you just said. He was able to see what was happening and kind of like and it was amazing.

Speaker 1: 47:16

Yeah, show you, it was amazing yeah and I was able to, you know, help other people, you know, start that process. And there's a story. I always go back to this when I think about the importance of being a daddy. No, we were just in church just this past Sunday where they gave a statistic on Like, if mama comes to Jesus, then there's 18% chance that the rest of families gonna follow. If the kids come, there's 23% chance, but if daddy hasn't experienced with Jesus in a family, there's like a 94% 92 90, but over 90 higher than the other probability that the rest of families gonna follow.

Speaker 1: 47:52

So daddies are important. Yeah but in our culture, in our world. You know, I came into the world during the 70s, I was after the 60s in the sexual revolution and all the things you know. That was when men became not important and Family started falling apart.

Speaker 1: 48:07

My family fell apart like I never, but there was a story of a prison chaplain that started out in prison and one of the things they do in All the prison chaplains is to get people in there is they offer things like books and bibles and and cards. So you can't buy cards when you're in prison, like if your mom is having Mother's Day or birthday, father's Day, all stuff.

Speaker 1: 48:33

Yeah so her first Time that she was in there she bought there was like a thousand people at the camp she bought 1500 Mother's Day cards and they were all gone. She ran out like they Mother's Day, they got, they got the cards. So Father's Day comes, what? Like two months after Mother's Day. This was her first year. She were 2,000 Father's Day cards because she thought, oh, you know All these Mother's Day cards, they're gone. I'm gonna Father's Day. Guess how many Father's Day cards got taken how none, zero, whoa.

Speaker 1: 49:07

And these are inmates in prison. It's like wow and that just it's crazy, but it's true. Like if you are, wow, if you're unfothered, no wonder you end up in prison. I mean, you don't have, you don't have a. I'll say this now get off the subject. There was a study the those little preserves over in Africa. You know they keep the animals the preserves, oh, okay. Yeah, they come preserver, are they preserves?

Speaker 1: 49:40

Reserves maybe reserves, whatever it's where they keep a forest, they keep it and they don't let people hunt like the animals live in Rome. Yeah but it's big, you know, it's thousands acres.

Speaker 1: 49:51

Yeah so they were getting overpopulated with elephants. So they took, they decided we're gonna take the older elephants and move them somewhere else, so because the young ones gonna live longer. So they took out all the the daddy elephants, they took them out of the of the thing and they moved them somewhere else. And the little elephants, like that, they went crazy. They started charging people. I mean, this is a documentary, you can look at it, it's fascinating. But it was, uh, they Didn't have any guidance, they just went crazy. They started ramming people, they did all kind of just went crazy. So they realized you got to have the older guy, have the older, like I think they called them bull elephants. You got to have them in here to keep them, keep order, yeah, so they brought them back immediately. It stopped. Like the problem stopped, wow, but no, I do that sometimes.

Speaker 1: 50:39

I was in downtown Birmingham right after I I watched that documentary and I saw a little, some little gangs doing their little thing and I was just like this them baby elephants. This is our problem in our society. Yeah, you know, daddy, daddy's, you know, father, your children take, you know, do your thing. I don't want to get too off on that, but bottom line, going through this process, dealing with my issues, it uh, you know, I always said I didn't want to be religious. That's always my thing. Well, right before this I had kind of I wasn't part of a denomination but I kind of made up my own religion. I was doing my own thing. You know, I got all these things that you know I can't and you're saying that wasn't good.

Speaker 1: 51:18

No, because it was covering up the other stuff.

Speaker 2: 51:21

I'm not saying like this covering up the the stuff that you said that you needed to deal with. Yeah, yeah, jesus wanted it, yeah he wanted.

Speaker 1: 51:27

He wanted me to be free and it was extreme and I was in the place where I had the time to do it. So I'm very thankful for that, but I doubt that I could have been like Very successful getting out the prison, having a relationship with Jesus, without doing some of this stuff. Yeah and then towards the end of that, I'm approaching, you know, my final days, as they make Jones.

Speaker 2: 51:56

Well, we don't know that yet. I mean, you were, but I don't think we've said that yet, have you?

Speaker 1: 52:01

well, this was towards the end. This was uh, this was the beginning of 1999, towards the end, about six months out. So it would have been. It was hot. So I mean I remember when it happened. I was praying one morning and I felt like Jesus said I need you to stop seeing yourself as an inmate.

Speaker 2: 52:24

So I was like even though you were still an inmate.

Speaker 1: 52:27

Yeah, it was weird and so I didn't pay it any attention and usually when guys trying to show me something, if I don't respond, he'll just keep showing me, show me, show me, show me. And it went on for like two weeks Like I need you to stop seeing yourself as an inmate. And I was like, all right, this is annoying. Like I am inmate, I have on white Alabama Department of Correction clothes that say Jones one, nine, zero, zero, six, three. When I look around, all I see are prison walls and razor wire, you know, and I'm outside. I look up, I see guards with guns, I see double fences, I see the police Tell me what to do and when they call me, they don't say mr Jones, please come to the front. They say inmate Jones, one, nine, zero, zero, six, three. Report to wherever you need to report to. That's who you are, that's how, that's your identity.

Speaker 1: 53:22

Yeah, so he said I need you to stop seeing yourself as an inmate. And that was confusing to me because I was like how can I do that? I mean, how can I do that? And he said I need you to see yourself the way that I see you. So I said Okay, how do you see me? And he said I see you as my son. And I was like I know, I know that, but I mean, and he was like no, no, go to the New Testament. Don't look at the Old Testament. Go to the start of the letters, read through, and I did, and everywhere in there it says that's the whole point.

Speaker 2: 53:57

What are the letters?

Speaker 1: 53:59

The letters are. They're called the letters because you know, the Bible is written in sections but in the New Testament, after Jesus, the Gospels or Matthew, mark, luke and John in the book acts that's where they started the church and then the Mostly the apostle Paul. Some are written by Peter, some were written by John. They wrote letters to the church because they couldn't communicate. That's how they communicate was through the letters, and the letters became our scripture and Honestly, I learned during that time and don't don't argue with me if you're a Bible scholar that's the part of the Bible that matters the most to me, to us now, because that's that's what's written Specifically to us as Jesus followers.

Speaker 2: 54:40

Like the Old Testament is written to the Jesus Right, well, okay, I don't want to get too froth on that. So he told you to go read the letters.

Speaker 1: 54:47

Read the, but every one of the letters. When you read through them, it all talks about the whole reason For Jesus to be the way. The truth in the life was to take you to the father so that you could become children of God, and I never really saw it like that before, but it's. Every scripture says that in the letters.

Speaker 1: 55:04

That's the whole point is that we become his very own sons and daughters. And that's how he wanted me to see myself, not as inmate Jones, not as a criminal, not, you know. See myself as forgiven. You know, I can't ever not know what I did right, but to see myself as he sees me. He sees me as his son. And that Was crazy. I was like I don't, I don't even make no sense. But I started. It was just between me and Jesus. I didn't tell nobody else about, I didn't even tell Steve because I thought it was stupid. But every time somebody said inmate Jones or inmate anything, or I thought of myself as an inmate, I would say out loud to myself I'm a son of the living God.

Speaker 1: 55:50

You would say out loud to yourself yeah, I wouldn't say that was like must have been all the time, because don't they say inmate Jones, here I'm a jump 15, 20 times a day and I but no, I mean I would just mum, I'm a son living, but I told myself that I'm a son. They're calling me inmate Jones, but I'm a son living, god you know, it still wasn't inmate.

Speaker 2: 56:07

It's so. It's interesting because I don't even think about that that literally it's true that that gets in your head. If every time someone addressed you, it's inmate Jones, whatever your number is, or inmate whatever, like, it's drilled in your head that you're, that's who you are in prison.

Speaker 1: 56:23

I mean not that you don't know that and you can translate your identity in other things. I, you, are a Victim of this or a victim of that or this, you know whatever. But you're not right. If you have Jesus, you have life and he wants to change. But the point in saying all this was that was a process.

Speaker 1: 56:40

I did it for like six months and I literally stopped seeing myself as an inmate and when I got out of prison, everything they said would happen to me didn't happen. Like they say, you're gonna fall apart. People are gonna look at you. You're gonna go on McDonald's and lose your mind cause you're not gonna know how to order food. You're gonna panic in stores. You're gonna panic here. You're gonna be awkward. But God began this process of me telling myself when somebody called me inmate to say that I'm a son of a living God, it changed my identity, like this stuff that I went through during this time where I call it. I fell apart. Then he put me back together the right way, like how it should have been put together to start with. Then I changed the way I saw myself and I told myself that then I started believing it. Then I didn't have those problems when I got a prison.

Speaker 2: 57:28

That's neat. It changed your identity, like from within, how you thought of your identity.

Speaker 1: 57:33

Yeah, which is fascinating, and nobody else can do that for you. Right, exactly Jesus can do it for you and you can agree with it or not, but it was a process. It's still a process. Don't get me wrong. When I'm going through something now it's hard. But you remind yourself, I am who God says I am. I can do what he says I can do and I can have what he says I can have. So I guess in the next episode we'll talk about my final days as inmate Jones190063.

Speaker 2: 58:04

Is it weird that I'm excited for you that you're getting out of prison, even though you've really been out for a while? Well, I didn't know.

Speaker 1: 58:10

I had a parole day and it was my first parole day, but God remember I told you about the committee of men that I felt like he sent me that was gonna be the game changer for that.

Speaker 2: 58:20

Can't wait to hear.

Speaker 1: 58:21

And you know, Steve, he really we'll talk about in the next episode. Yeah, awesome, but we're gonna wrap that up for today. It was good. Yeah, you ready to go deal with some issues? I'm ready. Face the truth.

Speaker 2: 58:33

I'm ready, got my notebook.

Speaker 1: 58:35

Well, we appreciate you guys. Thanks so much for tuning in. Thanks guys. See you soon. Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. For more exclusive content, head over to our website, teamjonesco.

Speaker 2: 58:48

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real. Real, which is very different than the highlight real some very juicy content there.

Speaker 1: 59:01

Good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram. Straight Out of Prison podcast.

Speaker 2: 59:06

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it in New.

Speaker 1: 59:17

York too. Prison recipes yeah well, thanks, good stuff. We'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 59:22

Thanks, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Food's coming soon, mate.