The Fight for Freedom: A Tale of Prison, Parole, and Promise

What happens when the bars of prison give way to the promise of freedom? We take you on a raw and real journey that captures my life-altering experiences in prison, my path to parole, and the thrilling transition back to society. It was a world fraught with fear, uncertainty but also hope, driven by the influence of my mentors, Steve Longenecker, Tommy Thomas, & Denis Devane... and a supportive community.

This episode isn't just about prison survival; it's a story of faith, perseverance and personal transformation. With a thousand hours of teachings from the influential Joyce Meyer under my belt, I worked tirelessly towards my parole date. The overwhelming emotion as I left the prison was indescribable, but it was just the beginning. We discuss the dreams and visions penned down in a notebook, detailed plans for life after release and the profound quote that shaped the next two decades of my life.

The road to freedom is a tumultuous one. Join us as we navigate the fears and anticipation of freedom, adjusting to life outside prison, and striving to make the most of newfound liberty. Listen in for a revealing account of my best friend Chris, whose chaotic life served as a stark contrast to my own, the jubilant celebration in the honor dorm upon my parole announcement, and the gritty reality of life in and after prison. This episode is a testament to the relentless pursuit of redemption.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:04

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. This is season two, episode 12. I'm James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:12

And this is Hailey Jones, and this is his story that has now become a part of my story.

Speaker 1: 5:17

So this is going to be the final installment of season two. I guess it would be the season finale or whatever you would call it, but this was a definite end to a definite season in my life, because these were my final days in prison.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, I would say the most life changing season in your life.

Speaker 1: 5:32

Yeah, I mean the whole. You know, at this point I've been you know it was like three and a half years in of I mean I was almost seven years in total but been three and a half years in, you know, trying to do something different, understanding you know how I got there, how my life can be different, going forward and just the work that Jesus did in my life, especially the last year or so that I was here. It was just, it was an amazing time but I mean there was some fears. You know there were parts of it that were scary. Remember, in the last episode we called it falling apart and I talked about learning about this thing, about writing a vision.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Like well, the vision that I wrote down was you know what I felt like he told me right down was you're going to be whole and you're not. You're going to basically do all your mess.

Speaker 2: 6:23

Right, it wasn't what you wanted to write down.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Yeah, I would not have chose that. But by the end of that, the end of getting close to the end of 1999, like it just occurred to me, like going through counseling, dealing with the stuff, doing all the Joyce Meyer stuff was that that vision had come to pass. Like I was a different man than I was when I wrote that down and I would have never saw that coming, and that gave me hope.

Speaker 2: 6:53

So how long from the time that you wrote it down to the time you kind of had that realization, how long was that?

Speaker 1: 6:59

Probably about eight months.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Okay.

Speaker 1: 7:00

I mean that was a hard period and you know we can. If you want to listen to the last episode, you can, we can. You can like get into the nuts and bolts of that, but it was a hard. You know, going through counseling hard, dealing with issues is hard.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:13

But it was so worth it, Like it was like there was so much freedom on the other side and it wasn't freedom from my circumstances, cause I was still in the same place, but I was free, like, of some a lot of the things that had always been my stuff. Right, but I'm getting ready, I've got a parole date. It is uh you got a parole day.

Speaker 1: 7:36

It was exciting and scary Cause, if you remember me telling you, most people don't make it up the first time. It's like common knowledge, like they give you a parole date, you go up, you go to your hearing. You don't make it the first time and then usually, if you're going to make it, you make it the second or third time.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Do you remember what the date was? I'm just curious. It was.

Speaker 1: 7:54

September. It was the first week of September in 1999. I could, I could look up the date but, I, don't remember the exact date, but there was a fallout that happened. Remember I told you about Chris. You know he got out at the end of 98. Right.

Speaker 2: 8:09

Your bestie yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:10

And we stayed in touch and I love Chris. I mean, I still love him to this day Like he was. He was, he was my, he was my best friend.

Speaker 2: 8:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:17

But he got out and he kind of took the path, the steps that I wanted to take. So he made parole, he went to a halfway house in Birmingham, he went to the church that I had connected with and was going to join and he had all the remember I told you Chris was like Tom Cruise or Zach Efron or somebody you know he was. No, he was just, he was a charmer, and not not in a negative, like he wasn't like just. People love Chris, they want to help him, especially like you learn a story. You know he was basically he was unmothered.

Speaker 1: 8:49

His dad was, you know, took him all over the world, been in prison since he was 17. You know, just, he'd had a hard life and people want to help him. And then you know you mix that in with he had an experience with Jesus and he, you know it was just he was. I was jealous of him but I loved him too, right, but what ended up happening? He got out and you know he started going around to churches and telling his testimony and you know he was on the road.

Speaker 2: 9:15

He was the prison poster child, yeah, yeah and, but he liked stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 9:20

Like he was in, like that was. His dream was get out and go do testimonies and take up offerings and be a blessing and teach and do all these things that he wanted to do. But he understood the scriptures, he understood Jesus, Like he had a definite like I don't doubt anything about that. But he didn't ever like really deal with some of his character flaws and around, I guess around the beginning of 99, all the stuff that he was doing kind of started falling apart and that, um, it affected us negatively because he was like the first one out of the honor dorm to leave.

Speaker 2: 9:55

He was representing.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Yes, he was, and. But he was also connected to all the volunteers that were coming in to help us all of them. He was right there in Birmingham. You know. I talked to him three or four times a week on the phone. He was sending me pictures, you know.

Speaker 2: 10:08

So when you say things started falling apart, what did that look like for him?

Speaker 1: 10:12

Well, he got out and one of the volunteers I can't even remember this guy's name, I wasn't super connected to him, but one of the volunteers was just head over heels for Chris like he wanted to help him, and he was uh, he lived like a mountain brook, so he had, you know, a lot of resources, a lot of influence, a lot of things going on.

Speaker 2: 10:32

So mountain brook for those of you that are not in our area or Alabama is just kind of a. It's the rich part of town.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yeah, and it's old money. What do you call it?

Speaker 2: 10:42

What's the right way to say it? The higher economic? Yeah, it's the something.

Speaker 1: 10:47

I don't know how you say it, but the real estate and mountain brook is the highest in the state of Alabama.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Yeah, that I mean it's actually I've I've heard. I mean this is random, but like it's the third richest in the country as far as income or something like that, but it's, the most of the people in mountain brook have old money.

Speaker 1: 11:02

You get the idea, though they come from like trust funds and you know, right, right. But this guy got him a job working at a golf course doing something, and I forget what he was doing exactly. Bought him a car but made him pay the note on it like sign form, all the stuff. Bought him a car, he went to shepherd's fold it's a halfway house. He went to the church that I was a part of, that I was going to, and then things started falling apart when he stopped showing up for work and then the guy was getting kicked back from the people that gave him the job and then he wasn't making his car payment. So then he defaulted on the on the loan. And so this guy, this guy kind of got jaded and you could tell like he still came in prison and he's still trying to help us with the honor dorm, but he, he didn't trust us anymore.

Speaker 2: 11:48

Well, I don't blame, I mean, yeah, that's aggravating.

Speaker 1: 11:51

Yeah, and I mean a lot of it is just like Chris. He was not out to get people, but he didn't understand like things like finances or changing your oil. I think what happened was he didn't get his oil changed and the oil burned up the motor and then the car didn't work. So it was like I'm not paying for it If it don't work with. The guy was like hold up, I signed, if you don't pay, I got to pay and so it was just. It was a big mess.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:11

And then that happened and there was a lot of problems with the Shepherds' fold, because Shepherds' fold was a halfway house, that was a Christian ministry and, chris, you know, he felt like he knew everything and nobody needed to tell him. You know, nobody can tell him nothing. So he had a lot of issues with that, so there was a lot of conflict with that. And that guy that ran that was coming in teaching classes, so we would get that feedback. But then, probably the worst thing that happened, the church, the World Victory Church of small church, there was like a hundred people but it was a new church plant upstart and it was like young people stuff happening. Well, he went on a date with the organist, the worship leader, lady.

Speaker 2: 12:53

That's one and the same the organist and the worship leader lady. Well, she played an organ. I never met her. I don't know Okay.

Speaker 1: 12:59

So apparently on their first date they went back to her house and she played with his organ and then James Gosh Nobody. It was a big. It was a big, it was a big scandal, a big mess. And then so all this stuff started up and the, the pastor there, ended up having to confront all that and when he did, the church split and then the lady left mad and huff and he just left behind a little tornado of a mess.

Speaker 2: 13:26

And then Sounds like he set little fires everywhere. He didn't do it on purpose. No, I know.

Speaker 1: 13:30

But he didn't know what he was getting into, but he did. It was like little tornadoes everywhere he went and then he ended up going down to a baby net, where he's from, and how to hook up with some girl, and she got pregnant. So he ended up having to get married and now he's got a baby coming and she already had two kids, and so it was just. He was a mess, chris was a mess.

Speaker 2: 13:51

It sounds like a lot of lack of, like practical life skills and he didn't have that.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Nobody ever told him that he didn't know he didn't have a work ethic. I mean he did, I mean he was, he would work hard, but he didn't understand. You know he didn't have, he didn't have a role model and how many teaching on that. But that actually helped us with the honor dorm because we immediately went into like strategy mode with we're going, we're only going to do half the Jesus stuff, like the other half is going to have to be life skills and you know how to you know if you're going to get out and go to work, get up now, don't sleep all day, and you know.

Speaker 1: 15:44

So we started, we implemented a lot of that. It actually made our program better. But I got into a place where I was determined like I'm he's already messed this up for everybody and anyways, I'm not going to be trying to suck up the people. I'm not going to ask these people to help me with the pro board or any of that stuff. I made it in my mind I'm just going to trust Jesus and that's going to help me. And because that was kind of a game in there, you needed people to go to the pro board for you Right.

Speaker 2: 16:08

You explained that a little bit last time. I didn't know what a big deal it was for someone to do that for you. It still is, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:15

But what ended up happening during the process? I got my, I got my pro day. I was nervous about it and I was still doing counseling. So Steve was like you got, you have to have a plan. And if you have a plan and if we can submit the plan to the pro board and we can answer every question that they have, then they'll probably grant you for one. They keep you locked up if you got a plan and so I was like I feel like that's your like simplifying things a little bit too much, but it really was. It was a game changer for me because he didn't just like make up a plan. He sat down with me through counseling and through, like you know, we got to figure out how you got here. He called them giants that I would face when I get out, because whatever I was dealing with before when I got out, there was the same things, were still going to be there. Give me an example of a giant drugs criminal activity, and for me it was my, my hometown.

Speaker 1: 17:12

Like he, steve, was a pastor and he did prison ministry but he went to school for criminal justice, okay. So he had worked with UAB for years and he he'd been doing this his whole life. He's been. This was 1998.

Speaker 1: 17:24

He started going in prisons in 1978. So that was like when I was in first grade. So he had a lot of wisdom, a lot of a lot of practical like most of his stuff was all practical. But he said that most guys their parole plan is to go home with mom and him. And he said going with mom and him ain't a good plan to have.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Number one if you go back to the same environment that you came out of, you might be changed and things might be different. But if you don't change your environment, then eventually you'll go back to doing the same things that you did before. And now I hurt my feelings because I was like I want to go home, I want to be my mom or my granny, you know somewhere, and it bothered me. But he started showing me like statistics, like he had like real data on that. And it's true and I've given that advice over the past 20 years. You know, go somewhere that start over somewhere else, and usually the guys that do make it and the guys that say they can handle it don't, and it's just a crazy, crazy thing. But it's hard hard to accept that. Thank you, so that was one of my things. I had to have some.

Speaker 2: 18:29

But you did take his advice and kind of accept that to. Okay, I'm gonna do something different, I'm gonna go somewhere different.

Speaker 1: 18:35

I was trying to. I knew that I needed to and I wanted to, but I knew that if it was up to me, I wouldn't. I need to be with my family, Right? It don't matter if it's-.

Speaker 2: 18:44

Which is a natural thing to think. I think yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:47

And I wanted to go. Honestly, I wanted to be in Atlanta with my granny. It was my plan when I thought I was getting out in Florida. That was where I wanted to be. But he taught me into not trying to figure out like this long-term plan, but let's just do a one-year plan. First six months will be very intense, Second six months, not quite as intense, and then I'm not going anywhere. Come back to me, we can make a plan for the next year or whatever.

Speaker 1: 19:17

So I kind of settled into that and his plan just kind of like I needed, you know, I needed somewhere to live, I needed a job, I needed, you know, people that were to be accountable, like with substance abuse stuff, criminal thinking, counseling, you know, spiritual community. And I had the church that I'd become a part of, the World Victory Church, and I had felt like when I was in lockup that Jesus said you're going to move to Birmingham, You're going to be my man in Birmingham. And I was, you know, at that time, like Birmingham. There ain't nothing that I won't in Bur I don't like Birmingham. There's nothing, nothing Birmingham for me. But what ended up happening? Joe Brumbach, who ran one of the best halfway houses in the state Shepherdsfold at the time.

Speaker 1: 20:01

I wouldn't say it now but at the time, because Joe resigned, he retired four or five years ago, and so it's not quite as what it was then, but it was the one that everybody wanted to get in, because if you got accepted to Shepherdsfold, it was almost a guarantee that the parole board would grant you parole.

Speaker 2: 20:18

So was it required? Someone coming out of prison that has to go to some kind of halfway house like that?

Speaker 1: 20:25

It's not required, but if you want to make parole, if you can give them a plan and you say you're going to a halfway house, they're like 80, 90% more likely to grant you parole because-.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Why is that?

Speaker 1: 20:39

Well, the specific program Shepherdsfold he had a very good track record. Okay, he didn't just house people and you know, make them pay rent, he had a program and it was intense and there was accountability and you know there's all these things, and he had like a. I think the recidivism rate then was like 75% I mean you can fact check me later but he had like a 89% success rate with people that came in, completed his program and then went on like he was and didn't go back to prison.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, he had a good and they knew it and they trusted him and if he accepted you, then it was a big deal. And I met him. He came in, was teaching classes but he was kind of like one of those guys kind of just hard to talk to. He was not very assertive.

Speaker 1: 21:35

And you know I didn't really like, we didn't like me, I didn't like mingle with him too well, I'm not saying I didn't like him, I liked what he was doing with us and I don't know who was teaching classes. But I also have found that he was jaded by what happened with Chris. Because, you know, chris, embarrassed everybody.

Speaker 2: 21:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:51

Especially the free will people that believed in him. But he also didn't like to take people who had already had like a real experience with Jesus, because he saw his halfway house as trying to get people you know into an experience with Jesus.

Speaker 1: 22:06

That was the main thing, and there was a lot of practical stuff that went on with that. So I had that and I didn't talk to him. He actually came to me after class one day and he said Steve told me that you had a parole hearing and I said, yeah, in September this was like four months before and he said I use I don't like taking people that have already you know that already fallen Jesus, but I think you would fit in, well, you know, at Sheppard's Ful. What do you think about coming there? And so I was like I think that might be what I'm looking for. And he said well, when I come in next week I'll bring application and we'll talk. You know, like the practical steps and all that stuff. So all the other guys, they were like what? Like cause it was hard to get. He only had like 30 spots.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Okay.

Speaker 1: 22:53

And it was like one of those things that you get in and if they're full you don't get in, like Right the timing is important.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Because, if they just happen to be full when you're yeah. It's crazy all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 23:04

So he came back in, we had a meeting. He asked me a bunch of questions, fit out, application, and he said of course I'll go to the parole board for you. So I was like I'd never asked him. I did not ask him. He said of course, if I'm gonna accept you and I'll go to the parole board for you, I'll talk for you. And so I was just like, wow, this is like God is just working everything out without me even having to try. Yeah, and then I think it might have been two weeks after that.

Speaker 1: 23:28

There was a guy. His name is Dennis Devane. He is a big it works with prison fellowship. He's from Birmingham, but he is retired Don't have to worry about income or put it that way and his heart is for men in prison and he spends, you know, five or six days a week, or maybe not six days, maybe three. He's in prison a lot. You know he's in there doing his thing. But his main thing that he feels like his purpose was to help guys come out of prison. So he would go to the parole board for people, but only if he believed in them. Does that make sense? And I didn't know him. He went to the parole board for Chris and him and Chris had like some kind of relationship, but I felt like I didn't know him, like we. I didn't conversate with him, he wasn't really helping us with the honor dorm, so I didn't have, I didn't have a connection to him. I wasn't gonna ask him.

Speaker 1: 24:20

He came in one day, about two or three weeks after that and he said James, I heard you have a parole date. And I said yes, in September. He said well, joe said that you were coming to Shepherd's fold. And I said I'm thinking about I'm then working with Steve on a plan, but I think that maybe what I need to do. And he said well, come sit down with me. I want to talk to you. I'm thinking about I'd like to go to parole board for you and I was just like what I mean, I didn't even try, like I never I didn't even try. And he sat down and he was the guy that had. He had more influence with the parole board than Joe Brumbop.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Why is that?

Speaker 1: 25:00

Because he would help people get out of prison. Like there are people that go to the parole board even now that people have made, or making like a living off, that cause they make their family pay them a fee or something which is.

Speaker 2: 25:11

Oh wait, like someone will go to parole board for someone, but they were getting paid for it.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Yeah, like they get a fee you know I'll go to the parole board for you, but you know it's gonna be 300 or something. You know something like that. These were not those kind of guys. This guy when he went to the pro board for somebody, he didn't just go and help him get out of prison, he was there when they got out and he helped them rebuild their life, and so that was humbling and I was amazed, I guess, that all these people were coming to me. I wouldn't come to them. They were seeking me out and but he had so much influence with the pro board was because he produced results, Like the people he helped get out, stayed out.

Speaker 1: 25:52

And then, and you know, the prison fellowship, prison ministry, it's a good one, it's I mean, it's Jesus based Christ center, but it's all practical. You know, you gotta do what you gotta do, you figure it out. But when I sat down with him he looked at me and asked me. He said oh James, are you a good Christian? So I was like you think I'm gonna say no, I mean, you try, why don't you ask somebody?

Speaker 2: 26:16

else let's define good Christian.

Speaker 1: 26:17

Well, no, I was just saying don't ask me, because you know I'm gonna tell you I'm wonderful. If you're gonna go to the parable, ask some of my friends, ask people that live with me.

Speaker 1: 26:25

So they say and he did. But he ended up going. He signed up, got on there and then Tommy Thomas was one of the associate pastors at the World Victory Church. They started coming in and he became like a father figure. But it was like with practical stuff, like he just wanted to help. Like he was so excited and when he found out I was moving to Birmingham and then they found out you know I'd be going to their church and I would be living in at Shepherd's fold and he like asked if he could help and I was like okay, like help with what? But he was like practical stuff, like he started looking for me a job. He started, you know, stocking up stuff that I might need. When I got out, you know, he got with my mom and made a suit, lined up up my car and all the things you know. After I got out, he helped me with a bank account and driver's license. They bought me clothes.

Speaker 2: 27:18

Yeah, she's are all things I don't really like. Think about, you know, like every little bank account, driver's license, clothes Well, you don't have anything.

Speaker 1: 27:24

You're completely starting from scratch and it's not like. It's not like being 18 years old and starting. You're starting from scratch, but with the deficit, cause you're now you're a convicted felon and you got all these other things that are going on. So he was a big part of that. And then somewhere during that process my mom fell and cracked part of her spine and she ended up having to retire and she couldn't work and she was in a bad, just in a bad place. And then during that process she gained a little bit of weight. I know we've talked about this, but my mom was always like thin little, but she gained a little bit of weight and then she hated herself in me so she didn't want to come out of the house, like she's gonna leave the house. It was weird.

Speaker 1: 28:07

So in that process, tommy was going to be the one that would pick me up and take me to Shepherd's fold and do all the things. And then I had Marvin Carnes. He was my carousel guy that I met and he was like a mentor to me, but he was real and he believed in me. But he didn't believe in me, like with the Ooty booties. He was like you got a man up and figured out. He was very challenging to me. He was the big part of that. And then Jimmy Don and Walter. I can't remember Walter's last name, but Terry Bush was in the honor going with us. He was a chap worker, one of my good friends.

Speaker 2: 28:37

And then me.

Speaker 1: 28:39

And he was Catholic and there wasn't a lot of Catholic stuff happening in Donaldson in any of Alabama Like they had like I don't even think they had a Catholic service like they would come in. So these two guys came out and did a small group with anybody that wanted to be Catholic on Wednesday mornings and I didn't like Catholics because I thought they were religious Like I'm. You know I'm, I'm into none of that. You know that religion stuff and- You've mentioned that yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:07

But at the time Terry wanted me to come out and meet them and so I went out and sat down and table with them and I was going to tell them about Jesus and the Bible and the scriptures and all things and they totally flipped my lid on what I thought about Catholics because they were. You know, we got, we had these two or three times, we did these little debates and then Jimmy just looked at me and said, james, you're more Catholic than most Catholics, I know, but they became like my people. They were like my. You know, I got got swear. That was. You know, I saw them once a week and then they signed up to be on my parole plan and Jimmy would help me with like practical stuff.

Speaker 1: 29:44

And then Walter was a recovering addict but he was also a deacon in the Catholic church, so he signed up to be like my person that I would touch base with once a week about, you know, is everything okay. You know, basically the plan that Steve put together was all about people. So I had him as my mentor or my counselor. I had Joel as like my person. Where I lived, I had Dennis Devaney keep me accountable to do what I said I was going to do.

Speaker 1: 30:12

I had Tommy Thomas. That helped me with practical, just everyday life stuff. You know, I saw him four or five times a week. Had Marvin Karnes it was like my mentor, you know, he was a successful businessman. I wanted to learn from him. And then I had Jimmy, who was just became like one of my best friends, you know. And then Walter would call me once a week and just ask me you know you had any, tell you any problems and I would, you know, be honest and that was. I believe that was the biggest part of what helped me be successful was the plan, it was a strategy.

Speaker 2: 30:46

Right, so really quick. I'm just. I don't want to too long talk about this, but, chris, when he got out, did he have a plan like this?

Speaker 1: 30:54

No, Okay, he was going to get out and go in the mental street. He was going to do Chris, yeah, well, no, he was all about Jesus, it was just he didn't have a lot of accountability, this plan of people that you talk about. Well, people were dazzled by him. He was like a superstar. So people were giving him money, giving him cars, giving him things, giving him. And when you don't have to work for something you know, eventually you stop trying. That's true for people.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Anybody, yeah, anybody.

Speaker 1: 31:25

But they treated him like he was, like an American Idol and you know he's a human, just like the rest of us. He just had. He had an experience that was good. But there was one thing that was holding me back on that I still had the Shelby County case.

Speaker 2: 31:40

That was holding me back, and Wait, why was that holding you back?

Speaker 1: 31:43

Because it hadn't been resolved yet.

Speaker 2: 31:45

And if I?

Speaker 1: 31:46

went up for parole and I still had it outstanding. They're not going to parole me to go to this county jail.

Speaker 1: 31:49

So we'll figure that out. So my mom scraped together $5,000 to hire me a lawyer. And it's crazy how, when you have a public defender, something can go on for seven years, but when you have a real lawyer that you pay some money to, how quickly things can get resolved. And Gil and Randy had told me don't be trying to get no Christian lawyer, get a. Randy said you need a tenacious bulldog, don't get a Christian lawyer.

Speaker 1: 32:17

You need somebody that's gonna, that knows the law and is gonna fight for you and handle business. And when we got, I think we gave him. She had to give him $5,000. We went in the courtroom and they were gonna give me five years and I said, no, I'm going up for parole, I have to have this. I can't make parole unless this is resolved. And so he was like hold up, just see her for a second. He went up there, talked for a minute, talked to the DA, came back and he said how about five years with time served and 10 years probation and some fines? And I was like sign me up.

Speaker 2: 32:49

So five years with time served meaning you'd already served that time I'm done. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:53

And then there was also a problem with the pro board that we got to finally tell the pro board like the judge's orders here, and Steve copied all that stuff and sent it in with my plan. The judge gave him four years time served, that the department corrections didn't give him. So that helped me too. So everything was looking good. And then I was just there, was like this amazement part of my brain, like so I was in.

Speaker 1: 33:18

A year before that I'd been like in the worst place Like ever find myself in lockup in the most violent prison in Alabama. And that morning, when God said I need you to be here, I got a plan and you're gonna get out of here and you're gonna be my man in Birmingham. And just how that confused me. Like I don't wanna, you know, I wanna be in Birmingham but I'm for some reason, move to Birmingham, and I didn't make any of it happen. It was like I made it happen, I didn't do anything. I mean, it was just like a total gift, I didn't have to work for it and I'm trying to figure it out, I'm trying to do any stuff. So it was, it was a crazy time.

Speaker 1: 33:54

But then, but at the same time, I started worrying Like I'm gonna mess up something. Like if this is, like if Jesus is doing this for me and I believe that he is I gotta figure out how to be perfect. So I don't mess anything up, cause I can you know, cause I can mess up some stuff. I know, I know me, like even to this day, I don't have a problem trusting Jesus. I have a problem trusting myself, like I don't wanna make a mistake and mess things up.

Speaker 1: 34:18

But during that time I felt like he taught me, like if you believe in me and if you know that I've got a plan for you and if I'm working these things out, then you just gotta trust me every day. So the first day of the challenge was why don't we just go through the rest of this week and not worry about it? And that was what I mean. I see my journal Like that's what I like. Why don't you just spend the next seven days just not worrying about it? Just relax and keep doing what you? Cause I was still busy. We had a lot of work.

Speaker 1: 34:48

We're still you know, the honor norm was booming.

Speaker 2: 34:50

It's hard to relax. So when you have something that huge on the horizon and, like so many pieces and anticipation and the way that it could go wrong.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Yeah, and just all the things. But it was during that time that I felt like the Lord really taught me, like about his grace, and you know how to just give up and let him do what he's gonna do. And I, you know that seven days turned into the next seven days. And then I'm like, oh, I really would like to live the rest of my life like this. And I'd like to say I have, I haven't, but I mean, I try to get back there as much as possible.

Speaker 2: 35:25

Well, it's kind of like you had done the work, what you felt like going back to the vision that you wrote down. It wasn't what you wanted to write down, but just as far as like dealing with those issues and facing those and being honest about those and those, that eight month period, you said that you, you had done what you felt like you were supposed to do and then it was just resting, yeah, and that I mean I'm using the word resting very like that's a lot easier.

Speaker 1: 35:53

It's hard because you feel like you gotta, you gotta be doing something. And I came to a place where I just need to keep doing what I've been doing and if I don't make parole, I'll make it next time. I wanna make parole. I believe I'll make parole. But I got to a place of just I ended up having a peace with it and then all these people were coming on board and then, when the day of the hearing started approaching like you don't get to go, like I didn't get to go, you don't even get to know until after it's over what even happened. But it just like boggled my mind. Like Chris had two or three people that went for him, I had like nine people that went for me. Wow, well, my aunt Sue and there are other people that came.

Speaker 2: 36:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:33

And then Steve didn't go to the parole board cause he felt like if he went for one he'd have to go for all. So he didn't do that. That was like his, like his standard. You know, if I go for James then I might have to go for everybody.

Speaker 2: 36:45

But you had plenty of people anyway.

Speaker 1: 36:47

So yeah, but he made the plan and he signed off on the plan and he was pretty heavy in the criminal justice system cause. He had worked for UAB tasks for all those years and you know they knew his name.

Speaker 2: 36:57

They knew him and he was Remind me what UAB task is again.

Speaker 1: 37:01

They keep changing it.

Speaker 1: 37:02

I think it then is different treatment alternatives against street crimes, but it's like, basically, he would help people with diversion plans where they didn't have to go to prison Like they commit crimes Like if they would go through his process and you know counseling and all the things, and he did a lot of work with trying to bring peace between victims of crime and the criminals that committed the crime. Okay, I mean, he did great work, but he was well known, so his name just him signing his name to my pro plan was a big deal.

Speaker 2: 37:32

Right.

Speaker 1: 37:33

But then, with all the people that went with him, it was almost like, you know, like the national championship game of 2013, when the Alabama Crimson Tile was playing Notre Dame, like this is going to be a boring game because we know we're going to win. Well, it was a boring game, but it was. I was like stacked and set and you know this is how can this go wrong? But you know, your mind starts doing all the things.

Speaker 1: 38:04

But then the day of the hearing. That was a very long day because you don't hear, you don't know. It's not like you have a cell phone and can find out. But there was, you know, the anticipation, the fear. Just I want this day to be over with, like I want to know. And then I called Tommy that night. He'd give me a time that he would be home, because in those days if you call from a prison phone you couldn't call a cell phone, you could only call a landline. I think it's different now, but just getting on the phone with him that night my heart's pounding. And he answered the phone and just busted out in tears and he said you made it, like you made it. I don't know Like they're really going to let me go, like it's crazy, but I mean at that time it had been six years and nine months and some days, so it's almost seven years and just everything that I've been through. It was just such a like a surreal flood, just a relief.

Speaker 1: 39:03

Like my God, like this Jesus, things. I don't get no credit for none because I didn't do anything Like I didn't make any of this stuff happen. But then immediately, you know there's 96 men that were in the honor dorm and when I got off the phone and just shouted that they were all like so just generally happy for me, like it was just like it was crazy. It was a crazy, crazy, crazy day and that was, I believe it was a Monday, and the next day you wait, did they just erupt and applause?

Speaker 2: 39:38

Oh yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 1: 39:39

It was good, I mean, and this was because we're all like working toward that common goal ourselves. And you know, people are coming up to me and saying you know, james, please don't mess, don't be like Chris, don't mess it up, like you're representing us, like we can, we can get it right, and you know we'll be next and you know all the things. But the very next day it was like now wait, because I remember you saying you never know how long it's going to be.

Speaker 1: 40:05

We don't like. In Florida I had a US date, so my US date was July, the first 1996. So I knew that when I got to that day they were going to let me go, even though they let me go to another state.

Speaker 2: 40:18

They let you go, but you know like you, know like you have it's settled.

Speaker 1: 40:23

That's my US date, but with parole. And if you had an EOS date in Alabama, it would be the same Right. But my EOS date in Alabama was like what was that? 2006, I think, would have been my US date. When you make parole, it's up to them, like they do. However, they figured out, however, they do all the things and they let people out on parole on Mondays. So, chris May parole, I'm so excited. But then he was there for months and months and months, right? So every Monday it was like this how are you?

Speaker 2: 40:56

I remember you talking about.

Speaker 1: 40:57

Sunday night praying like maybe it's the last night I see you, and then the next day, monday, is like no, we got seven more days.

Speaker 1: 41:04

So that part was hard because it's like okay, now I got to hurry up and wait, like I know if May parole have to hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, just wait, and I just had a clear like knowing that I didn't need to get wrapped up in that and start worrying about that or trying to, because you can't control it, there's nothing you can do, right, and I felt like I was just supposed to just keep what I was keep doing, what I was doing. And so I did. I was still working with the guys, still teaching classes, still doing all things, but I had a goal of Joyce Meyer had sent in all her stuff and she was very her stuff was very practical stuff that she put in there. It was over a thousand hours of teaching.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Yeah, you said that.

Speaker 1: 41:48

And we had all that stuff for like a year and a half up to that time. But my goal was I wanted to finish every one of her things before I left. It looked like a goal that was never going to happen. But you know, you just do one after the other, right, you get there. So I kept doing what I was doing, we kept working. We're doing a thing in the honor dorm.

Speaker 1: 42:09

I got to the last one of her study things. It was called managing your emotions and it was like a six part thing and I'd started it and the way she did like she would have syllabuses and stuff that went with it was like it wasn't like preaching, like going to church. This was like training, like training you how to deal with your issues and you know how to like practically follow Jesus, how to be successful in life, and it just gets stuff. But it was on managing your emotions and on Sunday, september the 12th 1999, sitting at the little prison table in the honor dorm, I finished my last one in my notebook and I was like, wow, I mean that was a pretty lofty goal. So this was six days after.

Speaker 2: 42:58

I finished a thousand hours on Sunday, september 12th 1999,.

Speaker 1: 43:03

I finished like and this was huge goal Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2: 43:05

was that before the parole hearing?

Speaker 1: 43:07

No, this was I guess, so the parole hearing would have been on Monday. This would have been that Sunday.

Speaker 2: 43:12

Okay.

Speaker 1: 43:14

So the next day, monday September 13th 1999, they called my name.

Speaker 1: 43:24

And you know you say is that a coincidence? Maybe? I mean, nobody got out of there in seven days Nobody. Well, I'd never seen anybody other seven days. But was that a coincidence that I finished what I set out to do on Sunday and then I got out on Monday? Maybe it's a coincidence, but I told you at the beginning of 1999, I wrote in my journal that Jesus said I'm not going to get you out of prison until you let me deal with what got you in here. And it was, he said. He was set me free once. I dealt with what I needed to deal with and I did, and now I'm free. So that part has always been just special to me. And it may be a coincidence, it may be, but it was. I never heard that, or I had no idea that that was my leaving day, like I wasn't ready to leave, like I hadn't even gave away most of my stuff. It was a. It was a frantic morning, because they only give you like an hour to figure it out, like you're making parole.

Speaker 2: 44:25

So just real quick, when you say they called your name, was it like over a speaker or did some like I just succumbed to yell your name? I just want to. What did that look like?

Speaker 1: 44:34

They would call you over a speaker and the way it was set up at Donson. These are cell blocks, so they're designed to keep the police safe. So the police are in the cube and the police that work in the cube never come in the dorms and if something happens they send in like backup. But this day there was an officer there I can't remember his name he was. He was like me, he might have been in his 30s but he didn't. He never liked what we were doing in there, like because it would like piss him off and bother him. Because he thought we got special privilege because we got to a place in honor dorm where we shared a yard with one block where they had the drug dorm. They would open our doors early in the morning and leave them open till dark, and that didn't happen in that prison. Like you were lucky to get an hour of being out in the yard a week. So it was like we had a lot of freedoms but we were. We had a lot of accountability too, because we were there wasn't stuff happening like what's happening in other places, but some of these officers would come from the other side and work on our side. When they came through there, they would just get pissed off like y'all got, y'all act like y'all ain't in prison, like.

Speaker 1: 45:43

And he was one of those guys and he didn't like what we were doing and he always gave me a hard time. He was always he would come at me. I remember one of the things he liked to say you know, jesus, you know you're reading that Bible. Jesus said bow down to Caesar. Jesus said bow down, I'm Caesar, bow down, you do what I said. So I was, I'd be like okay, whatever, that's not exactly what he said. But you're the police and I respect you, but don't I don't know why you gotta keep bothering me, but he was the one that called my name that morning and called me over to the cube and he had a card that was made by another inmate with some praying hands and a cross on it, and he said it said I've got it somewhere, I can show you. It said God bless you and keep you. And all of you know that there's a song out there now.

Speaker 2: 46:34

Yeah, the song Lord bless you.

Speaker 1: 46:36

Yeah, and he looked at me through the hole and he said I know what you guys real and I know you ain't coming back and if you do come back, it'll be as a as a volunteer. So happy for you, do you think? And that just I started crying Like but from to get that from him right.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Because he was the one, he was always the one antagonizing us and antagonizing me and bothering me. But then you would think you would get that like from the, from the chaplain, because you know they're supposed to be like the, the man of God in prison. So Chaplain Lindsay never liked me and I never liked him either. You know, I always call him a mean old Baptist. I saw, you are just mean old, you know.

Speaker 2: 47:19

but the way that all Baptist are mean the way he talked to me that day.

Speaker 1: 47:25

He was like walk, walk. Then like scan me up and down. He said yeah, john's boy still got that look. And you better not dare ask to come back in here for at least two years. And I was like what are you talking about? And he was like I know how y'all do your slick velvet tongues, fooling all these freeway people get out trying to come back in my prison. You better not dare. My rule is at least two years. You have to prove yourself for at least two years. And you still got that look, that convict look. And he was mean. I really encourage you that one.

Speaker 1: 47:59

Huh, yeah, he was mean, but I was like you know what, today, whatever you say to me, I ain't gonna bother me because I ain't gonna. I'm I'm being a baffle house. So I don't care what you talking about, but it was a. It was a crazy day and I was prepped, I was ready, I had a strategy. You know, steve helped me with that, everybody helped me with that. But Steve was like you know, thomas Jefferson writing the Declaration of Independence.

Speaker 1: 48:25

He was the main you know he was the author of it had the plan, I had the support, all the pieces was in place, and then I guess we don't need to end the season without me talking about that. I had, I had the vision for what was next, and that was, if we go back to the last episode, I talked about learning. You know, the people came in there telling us to write stuff down and pray it and confess it, and God would bless it and do it and all, and just realizing that this ain't working, this ain't, this ain't how you're supposed to do this. And then, but I was fascinated with that scripture and I would always go back and read it because it just said you know, write the vision, make it plain, and it will surely come to pass. I will, I'll make it happen.

Speaker 1: 49:09

And I got that revelation that it wasn't you write down what you want, you ask God, like, what do you want from me? And then you write that down. And so the stuff that I wrote down that led to me falling apart had came to pass. Like that was, that was real. And it was about two months before I had my parole hearing. I felt like I was supposed to sit. I had a new notebook that I got from my mom in a box, just a regular like a notebook, that he wanted me to sit with him and spend time with him and he was going to tell me some stuff to write down.

Speaker 2: 49:46

This is two weeks before you got out.

Speaker 1: 49:48

No, it was about two months. I picked like a Friday, saturday, sunday, because those were the slowest days in the honor dorm, because we didn't do a lot of classes and stuff on the weekends, because it was so like we had classes all day and at night money through Friday, and then they had like chapel services and stuff like that on Sunday, but Saturday was kind of like our off day. We didn't, we didn't do any of that. So I felt like he was like I want you to sit, I want you to get your notebook, come sit with me, like, shut yourself out from all the activity. And I got some stuff I want you to write down and it was the vision for what was next and I literally wrote for three days. You know, these are the, these are the things that that I have for you and if you'll just trust me, we can walk these things out. But it ended up being like it filled up the whole notebook.

Speaker 2: 50:45

Wow.

Speaker 1: 50:46

And it's still. You know all the things that are in that notebook are still coming to pass to this day and it was very detailed. It talked about you know you're going to get released from prison, you're going to live in Birmingham, you're going to have favor with your parole officer and you know he or she's going to be helping fulfilling God's plan for your life. It had an error where I would live, where I would not live Like. You're going to live in a good area, you're not going just because you're come out of prison. You're not going to move to. You know where you can get some cheaper rent the jetto. Well, I'm not saying anything wrong with that.

Speaker 2: 51:23

It was just. This was what he told me to write.

Speaker 1: 51:25

And I just started writing. But then as I was writing, I was like this is, this is a lot right here, like all this stuff's a little bit too much detailed when I would work, what I would do, how I would start my catering business, how I would start my restaurant, the way I would influence people like a lot of different people. That I would be allowed to come back in prison and help the guys. That I would influence people with my story on TV and newspapers and magazines. That I would influence a wide range of people, not just felons or people like me, but people from all walks of life. That I would be a pioneer. That I would blaze new trails. That I would find my brother and that was a big one for me, I want to find my brother that I would find my biological father, how God's favor would go before me and I wouldn't have to fear lawsuits or charges or anything else that could come at me after that, and that we'll talk about that next season. But I had to deal with that for some mute things because there was so much out there. There was a large portion, like seven or eight pages, that were devoted to who my wife was going to be, her characteristics, like how we fit together, our kids, that I was going to have a son named Judah James. My relationships I don't know why it's making me cry my relationships, like what my relationship with Jesus would look like, what my family would be like, like how I'd be with others, my finances you know how I would handle that, that God's blessings and favor would always be evident on my life. And then I had not thought about this until I just read this prepping for this podcast. But it is written in black and white in those pages that you'll be part of a great revival that is coming to Birmingham. And I am like and I didn't even realize that to like, nah, I am Like our church, church of the Highlands, like it. It has transformed our city, and not just our city but our state, and just crazy, just crazy stuff that I wrote down.

Speaker 1: 53:35

But he said, as I was writing because I didn't, I was like I had my mind was struggling with this. Like you know, this is, there's a lot of stuff we write. Now here he said dream big, james, and while you're dreaming, remember how big I am and don't ever forget that you belong to me, but you belong to me. So you don't have to worry, I'm going before you, I'll be with you, just like I have been, and I have a plan and I don't know. And then I had a. I don't even know where the quote came from but it, like that, defined the next two decades of my life. That book and there's still parts of that book that are coming to pass. Like it's crazy, I have to. I let people read that notebook. Like the first year after I was out of prison, that didn't. Like you wrote this, like there was no way there was those kind of details, like you wrote and I didn't. I mean, that's a prison notebook. It's got the prison tape on it.

Speaker 2: 54:42

Actually it's kind of neat because you still have that notebook.

Speaker 1: 54:45

I still read it. And it's duct tape together on the edges, but it's like the original notebook that you sat in your cell.

Speaker 2: 54:52

I guess yeah, and you got that back in 1999.

Speaker 1: 54:56

Yeah, and. But the quote is that vision without action is merely a fantasy. So you can have a guy, can give you a vision, but if you don't take the steps, it's just fantasy. But action without vision is simply just the passing of time. So if you're just doing stuff and you don't have any direction, but that vision, accompanying by action, will change the world and it changed my world. I mean, if I could have you know, I've been through some hard times then I was through some hard times on the other side, but if I could look forward to like now, like if I could have saw through to the end of the process, that you know how God was going to bless my life, my wife, my kids, my family, my church, my community, crazy, crazy, crazy stuff.

Speaker 2: 55:37

But it's amazing. So you wrote that down and so now you're like I want to hear about, like you like walking out. Well, you only had an hour to pack your stuff. You said Yep.

Speaker 1: 55:49

And so what tell me. I didn't want to take a bunch of stuff with me, so I went on like a giving away all my stuff campaign, the only thing that I wanted to keep. I wanted to keep my Bible, my strong-willed coordinates, my bonds, dictionary and my notebooks, Like that was the only thing I needed and I wanted to keep all that, but everything else I gave away which would like.

Speaker 2: 56:12

What are some things you gave away.

Speaker 1: 56:14

Just practical stuff. The order.

Speaker 2: 56:17

So you the lotion that you put, the Dakar, Kelowna.

Speaker 1: 56:20

That was in Florida. We didn't like this difference between there was 20. Alabama and Florida is like a day and night. Like in Alabama you're just trying to survive. There was no Dakar lotion and I didn't get many visits when I was in Alabama, yeah, like when I was at Dawson, because my mom had heard it back and then I didn't want people. I just it was a different, it's a different world.

Speaker 2: 56:44

So you gave all your stuff away.

Speaker 1: 56:45

I gave all my stuff away and I was trying to like you know how I am when I, you know, I want to hurt somebody's family, give this, give that, give that. And so I was. I was having a panic attack over that, but I gave all my stuff away and then just leaving that morning, like the way they sent me off, like the huge, it was just like a, it was like a party everybody, but nobody was mad that I was leaving. Like sometimes when people leave, people get aggravated. But they were, like you know, tears and people crying and praying for me and just encouraging me. And you know, and at least one or two or three or four of them said you know, you're going, you're going ahead of us, like you, you got to make it, like you got to. You ain't just doing this for you, you're doing it for us. So you just said please do good.

Speaker 1: 57:27

But, then giving away all my stuff and then you know, I'm left with my little paper bag. I got my little, my brown paper bag, I got my Bible, my concordance, my Greek dictionary and all my notebooks and that's the funny thing.

Speaker 2: 57:42

That's all you took with you.

Speaker 1: 57:45

That's all I needed. I mean they, they didn't have stuff. So they, I mean I gave away my, why I gave away everything everything I had, you know just just give it to somebody. But then I had that Christmas. I had got a new pair of Asics and they were running shoes, cause I'd started, I learned how to run.

Speaker 1: 58:01

So I was trying to get healthy and I wanted to give cover house. We were the same size shoes. I wanted to give him my shoes, but I'm like I can't give him my shoes and walk. I can't go out, I can't walk barefoot, I you know um so. But he was a chapel runner, so he had a little bit more favor than I get, than you know other inmates. So he asked me if he could walk me to the shift commander's office that's where you change your clothes and when I got in there I just slipped my shoes off and handle them to him and then he hugged my neck and he was gone. But then it was a Crazy, you know, like putting on real clothes for the first time in seven years. It just like.

Speaker 1: 58:41

And then well, I didn't even know I didn't even know my size like because we our sizes in Prism was you.

Speaker 1: 58:49

It was small, medium, large, extra large, xxl, you know that was for the pants, that was for your boxers, that was for your Little prison shirt, so you put on. So I didn't even know. So there's a little bit of paranoia about trying to figure out. You know what size pants I need. What size shirt do I can guess, but guess on all that. But just like, and they were good clothes to you, like that world victory church people, they put me in the game.

Speaker 2: 59:11

So they like they have clothes, they're waiting for you before you actually walk out.

Speaker 1: 59:15

Whoever's picking you up can bring you clothes. Okay if they don't like. If you're one of those unfortunate and there's a lot of guys that got a prison don't have anybody. If they get out, they don't have anybody. They have like a box of clothes and you just pick something out and it's like thrift store stuff and they take you to bus station and drop you off. Oh, and they gave me a $10 check. It's something they do. I don't know if they still do.

Speaker 2: 59:40

That was like what am I gonna do with $10 dollars? Good luck.

Speaker 1: 59:43

But no, but like the app. If I didn't have anybody and I was just like somebody that had no one, they would have released me from prison. Gave me my $10 check, took me to the bus station. Put me on a bus to wherever I want to go to, and then you go, figure it out.

Speaker 1: 59:59

Wow and that's, you know, a big part of why a lot of people don't make it right on the other side. But I was, for I had people and so the world victory church people. They started a campaign of James is getting out of prison, he needs some clothes, and so they had put me in the game. Never saw nothing like that. But then, like Jimmy and Walter, they got me a bunch of clothes. Ended up, jimmy and I were the same size, so he gave me like all his clothes. And but that day, let's just go back to that day.

Speaker 2: 1:00:28

Yeah, I.

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

Had a pair of jeans, a nice pair of shoes and a nice shirt and it was just crazy to put it on. Yeah, because I've been wearing prison clothes for the past seven years and you know how I'm about clothes. I love good clothes. Yes, you know I don't know if I'm flashy, I just like put on good clothes.

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

I feel good and it makes you feel good about yourself. But putting on the clothes for the first time that year and then or in seven years in seven years, sorry, yeah. But then my Just walking out of there with my paper sack, my free world, clothes on, I'm ready to go.

Speaker 1: 1:01:08

but then Tommy Thomas was picking me up because my mom she had heard her back and I ain't see, wanted to pick me up, but it was more practical for Tommy to pick me up because he lived in Birmingham and I was going there, right, and I had always had this fantasy. You know, when I finally got a prison, when I leave, I'm gonna kneel down and kiss the ground.

Speaker 2: 1:01:30

I've seen that on movies and stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:01:31

No, I was gonna do that, I was my plan. But that morning, when you know, I walked up to the gate and then they just let me go and so I get into the car with Tommy, like he asked me. Did I want to stop at the end of the road and do that? And I was?

Speaker 2: 1:01:48

like kiss the ground.

Speaker 1: 1:01:49

Yeah, because I said I wanted to he didn't want me to.

Speaker 1: 1:01:52

I said I wanted to, but I said no, let's just, let's just get me out of here, let's just get me out of here. And but it was a blur that the whole morning, actually that whole day was a blur. It's kind of like remember when we were getting married, where I was so meticulous about playing out the food, mm-hmm, and the chef Bob that catered our wedding, he was like you're not gonna eat anything and you're not gonna remember the food. And I was like I'm gonna eat and I'm gonna remember the food, but it was a blur and you don't really remember. It was kind of like that because it was like going from One thing to the next and it's so fast and everything and it's yeah and such like a change, like almost Instantaneously but I'm free and I'm moving to Birmingham.

Speaker 1: 1:02:35

I'm gonna be his man in Birmingham.

Speaker 2: 1:02:37

So you're driving to Birmingham With Tommy Thomas crazy day.

Speaker 1: 1:02:42

Well, we have recorded 22 episodes of this and this has been very healing for me, but also I've like picked up pieces of it that have just like Encouraged my faith. Like you know, gosh, like yeah crazy, but good, good, crazy for me too, actually.

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

I mean just it is Neat, I mean, and it's really is amazing to me the your memory and the detail in your memory, and I know you have all those notebooks and that has been here, but it's just neat because I do think one thing that I Frustrated with myself about. I mean, I don't remember things, and that's why writing them down is so, yeah, powerful, because then you remember like, oh, that happened, I forgot that you know there's a lot of stuff I wouldn't remember if it wouldn't meant for the journals right, yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 1: 1:03:33

I'll do a lot of that. We will be doing like a recap of season two, like a fact check I'm also Planning on starting a companion podcast was straight out of prison, where I go through like Like this is the story, but there was so much that I learned and you know I have a whole curriculum on for guys coming out of prison just things that I learned that we've used across board. Not sure what we're gonna name it. If you want to help us with a name, that'd be great. I don't want it to be cheesy, but just going through the process of it would be more like a teaching though it wouldn't be like a storytelling, but it goes with this story like yeah, but let's not forget, get ahead of ourselves.

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

Season three is coming. Oh yeah, so season three. When he walked into Birmingham, or walked in, drove into Birmingham, I guess with, with just his paper sack, which only had Bible and Study guides and notebooks. But that's all that. You, that's what you started with period, that's all you.

Speaker 1: 1:04:31

Had your name. That was me pretty incredible. Yeah, I'll. Season three is coming. Well, I'll tell you about my new home in Birmingham. Transition to the free world now.

Speaker 2: 1:04:41

I'm in the free now. What do you call it free?

Speaker 1: 1:04:42

free, well, person I am a free will person, but then I you know season three. I'll explain what it's like life on parole. Because I was. I was not Free, free, but I was not in prison anymore, right these?

Speaker 2: 1:04:55

so these were my last two are free in your mind and heart. Oh yeah free, free yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:59

I mean, pro went hard for me, I was ready for it, like whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:05:02

whatever you need me to do, just let me know, cuz my freedom is, you know now you had a new appreciation, understanding for it, and you still do to this day, like he tells me, like you need to watch yourself and your freedom, I might listen, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:05:19

Yeah, freedom is real. I mean, once you've lost it, you, you will appreciate it. I can see that, but uh, this has been good. Um, I Don't. I don't guess there's anything else we want to say about the now season two.

Speaker 2: 1:05:34

I just want to say I mean people have said this to you but, just as your wife, I just really appreciate your transparency and vulnerability and even telling this, I mean I have. I tell this people all the time I feel like I learned something new about you or your story every time we sit down to record, which is really Fun and crazy, but I really I mean it's really helped me grow and grow my faith and be filled with hope and Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:06:05

All right, we appreciate y'all. Thank you so much for supporting us Seizing. Stay tuned, bye guys. Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:06:16

For more exclusive content, head over to our website teamjonesco slash podcast yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real.

Speaker 1: 1:06:28

Real, which is very different than the highlight real Some very juicy content there the stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison Podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:06:40

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it and you know prison recipes, yeah the things.

Speaker 1: 1:06:53

We'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:06:55

Thanks, bye.