Embracing Freedom: From Incarceration to New Beginnings

Have you ever wondered what it feels like to take your first breath of freedom after being incarcerated? Come, journey with us, as we explore the captivating narrative of James, a man newly freed from seven years behind bars. In this stirring episode, we explore the exhilarating and daunting experiences of his first day out, from navigating modern technology to tackling the list of tasks set by his Aunt Sue and Mentor, Tommy Thomas.

Experiencing the world through James's eyes, we unlock the unfathomable joys in the smallest of things, like hot showers and fresh coffee, that are privileges to him after all these years. We delve into his surprising welcome at Tommy's luxurious house and the heartwarming support from his local church, which becomes his beacon of hope. Woven in are the insightful experiences of his parole journey, the daily struggles of staying out of jail, and his paradoxical relationship with his parole officer.

But our journey doesn't end there. James takes us with him to an unexpected avenue - the world of fine dining in Birmingham. As he learns to navigate this new world, he discovers more than just a means to pay his restitution fines. We also touch upon his struggle to get a gun permit and the surprising kindness he encounters in his journey. Join us for this heartrending episode, and stay tuned as we continue to unravel James's life lessons since his release.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:02

Well, hey guys, welcome to season three of the Straight Out of Prism podcast. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:09

And I am Hailey Jones, and this is his story. That has now become a part of my story, season three. We made it what's up. I feel like we need to go out to dinner to celebrate. You're out of prison.

Speaker 1: 5:22

I'm free at last.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Driving off.

Speaker 1: 5:24

Free at last. Thank God Almighty, I'm free at last.

Speaker 2: 5:27

Driving away, I should say so we ended up last season, last episode. You were literally driving off the compound.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Yes, with Tommy Thomas. Yes.

Speaker 2: 5:38

And you had talked about, you had dreamed and thought about, and people were asking if you were going to kiss the dirt of the free ground. But you decided Well, nobody got time for that.

Speaker 1: 5:46

I had always planned on doing that. That was always been my plan for almost seven years, but somehow that morning everything was going so fast. We got to the end of the driveway and Tommy was like stopping and I think he wanted to take like a picture or do something cheesy like that and I just said I don't want to do it, I'm good, just get me out of here.

Speaker 2: 6:07

Keep driving, don't stop.

Speaker 1: 6:10

I don't want to do it, so we were speeding away.

Speaker 2: 6:14

I mean, do you remember the feeling you had when you were in the car?

Speaker 1: 6:18

It was very dreamy. It was like a dream. I think the biggest emotion was seeing myself drive away from there and remembering the pain and the fear and all the stuff coming in there. You know that three years prior and cause, you know that was a scary place to be and then just trying to sit on that prison band and process and all the trees and all you know. Cause, west Jefferson is in the middle of the woods. It's like 45 minutes from Birmingham. It is like out in the middle of nowhere and you know I felt like I was going into hell when I was going there.

Speaker 1: 6:54

But the way that all the things that happened in the way that I was changed while I was there, like I was driving away and I was free from prison, but I was also free on the inside in a way that I, in a way that I hadn't been when I went, when I went there, so it was, it was a weird.

Speaker 2: 7:11

The motions were it was almost like a culmination of that process and very symbolic. You driving away in the car was very symbolic of what had happened on the inside.

Speaker 1: 7:22

Yeah, it was. It was the day. It was one of the best days of my life, wow.

Speaker 2: 7:28

So so let's talk about that Just being in the car. I mean, when's the last time you were in a car?

Speaker 1: 7:35

The last time I'd been in a car probably would have been in a regular car like seven years, but then I was in a couple of cop cars when I first got arrested in Florida. You know they throw you in the back to transport you, but that had been that was a little different feeling, I guess. But then even with that, after that all the transfers were like transfer vans or buses or you know prison vans, so I hadn't been in a car, gosh, in ages.

Speaker 1: 8:02

It was crazy, I mean, and just the, you know I got on clothes. You know I got on real underwear because you know you don't get real underwear and then you have to wear those stitched up boxers. It was just a crazy day.

Speaker 2: 8:16

So real. So what time was it that you were driving off or that he picked you up?

Speaker 1: 8:21

It was early. They, when you make parole, they try to get you out really fast because then you're off, then you're off their roster. You know they can, they don't have to deal with you, you're done. So they try to get you out early. So it was about 730. It was still early in the morning. It was a. It was a crazy feeling.

Speaker 2: 8:40

So where were you heading? Where was your first stop? Like what, like what's the plan?

Speaker 1: 8:44

Well, I was paroled to go to Shepherd's fold, which is a halfway house in Birmingham at. Joe Brumbach was in charge of that. So when you get paroled to a halfway house, they are your people. So he was in charge. He's responsible for you, not just like morally, but like through the parole board and physically responsible.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Very responsible for you. So I knew that he was my, he was my person, Like I had to do whatever he said. And the first, I guess the first big surprise I got was Tommy had told him you know, we're going to, we're going to do, be doing all these things. And Joe said why don't you, why don't you just spend the night with Tommy and Brenda? They said it was okay and we'll see you in the morning. And that was just like a shocker, Like I don't even got to go today.

Speaker 2: 9:30

So you had a full 24 hours.

Speaker 1: 9:32

Yeah, before I had to report it, I had to report to the parole office, had to register with the sheriff's office as a convicted felon, and then I had to report in the shepherd's fold. So I had there was a lot, there was a lot going on, like there's a lot of, I guess, uh, as the dot and T's to cross, and I wanted to make sure that there was no missteps in anything that I did, because I was keeping my freedom.

Speaker 2: 9:58

Did you have like a checklist of those things that you just mentioned, like checking into the parole and this that you knew like okay.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Well, they give you. They give you like a packet of all things. And then my aunt, Sue, she didn't come pick me up but she had always been in charge of all my legal stuff, so she had did her own list and sent it to Tommy. And the reason why he picked me up was just logistical because I was staying in Birmingham, I would be close to, I was going to church with them and he wanted to. And then you know, my mom, she had fell on some steps and cracked her spine about two years before that. So she had been just in a bad place with her health and had to retire, couldn't work. And then, you know, she gained a little bit of weight and she was like ashamed of her. So I don't, I can't, I don't even know how to explain like she didn't want to be seen by people, so she had literally Locked herself in the house. So she hadn't like really been out of house but once or twice in like three years. Oh, wow. So and I didn't, you know I was ready to go.

Speaker 1: 11:02

You know saying right and so so Tommy, but Tommy really wanted to, because that church, the world Victor church, they were a big part of that, you know, especially the first six months or so the when you say that they're a big part of the. Me getting out of prison getting out yeah just helping me take my next steps and you know, figuring out what I need to do right and but they, they saw it as, because they were a small church, I hadn't been, you know they were maybe Year to you know they were fairly new.

Speaker 1: 11:34

Yeah non-nominational church and they had gotten into prison ministry because of their radio show that we were listening to. I brought them a letter and that's how they started doing prison ministry. So everybody was like very excited. Yeah about that, so it was good stuff.

Speaker 2: 11:50

Okay, so your first stop.

Speaker 1: 11:53

Yeah, well, I was. There's a lot of things I wanted to do for a day you know, I wanted to call my mom and wanted to see you. I want to do all things right but Brian, more anything is. I want to get something to eat. The brother was hungry.

Speaker 2: 12:08

Yeah, because you had talked about how the the food and the floor, I mean in the Alabama prisons, where it was terrible, it was awful.

Speaker 1: 12:16

I mean it was. It was worse than like dog food, it was. It was bad, like the anything that complained about in Florida, the jail or prison food in Florida Pilled in comparison to what we got at Dawson because we were like Mount Nourish, we didn't. You know it was food there was awful it was, it was bad. We didn't get Much of anything. It was, it was pretty bad.

Speaker 2: 12:38

So okay. So where did you want to eat? Where were you your first meal to be? It was breakfast time.

Speaker 1: 12:43

So you know I'm a big Waffle House guy and you know one of Waffle House or somewhere with the buffet. So he, he wanted to take me to show me and I was like show me, he's, like show me's. But this was 1999 and there were still the show needs. The show needs was still around in the way that had been when I was growing up, where you had the breakfast buffet, where everything was there and there was one. I was on oxmore road, right outside of Birmingham. Yeah, that we stopped at and I felt like a, like a kid in a candy store, like I just couldn't, I couldn't process like Food, and it was just. You know, I'm pretty sure I ate some of everything that was there and then. But when I got, there was cereal and then they had milk and then I was so excited about it and then I looked up and Tommy was crying.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Wait, you were so excited about the the milk and how like were you just like? Oh my god.

Speaker 1: 13:40

I was just excited to see I haven't had. By that time it been almost four years since I had milk we didn't have, we didn't have milk.

Speaker 2: 13:46

What did you have? What did you have? Cereal, I guess I'm present, or?

Speaker 1: 13:49

if they did cereal, they would take that powdered milk and then they would put water in it and shake it up. So that was, that was the milk. We didn't have milk. And I was excited about the milk. And he was balling and I was like what's the matter? Like you know what's the matter with you? And he was like I've just never seen anybody get so excited about milk.

Speaker 2: 14:08

It was.

Speaker 1: 14:09

I mean, I kind of felt bad for him, but I was just like you know, I haven't had milk. It's been a long time since I had milk. It's been a long time. So I'd juice, and everything we had was powdered or processed or wow, or just disgusting.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Well, this is a random question, but how did you? I mean, I always think, okay, so who paid for this show needs like did you have any money? Did you have a bank account? The bank account I mean, I don't know, are these things like set up? No, we had nothing Okay.

Speaker 1: 14:39

I left prison with a paper sack. I had my, my two Bibles, my strongest concordance, my vines Creek dictionary and all my notebooks. That was all I took with me naturally. They gave me a $10 check or money order, I can't remember.

Speaker 2: 14:53

I remember you mentioning that, yeah and that was what I had.

Speaker 1: 14:57

But my family had, you know, my mom, my granny, my aunt Sue. Everybody had like sent Tom because Tommy was my, he was on my parole plan to be like my practical person right and so they had sent him. You know, he was set.

Speaker 2: 15:12

So they had sent him money for me. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you know, cover everything right, yeah, I mean, I just don't know how it works. So yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 15:18

Yeah, no, I didn't have anything. I didn't have an idea how to prison ID and that was about it. So we got through that and then I just can't tell you how good that meal was. It was amazing. But then we got we're get going to get back in the car and I was like I need, I want to call my mom, you know. You know, I need to do the things that matter. You know, now that my belly's full, I need to call my mama. And so he gets in the car and hands me this little black thing called a cell phone, which I'd never seen or I didn't know what that was.

Speaker 2: 15:59

So so that is pretty crazy. So the time you're in prison is when all the cell phone and that's when everything came out.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Yeah well, when I went, when I got arrested in 1993, my aunt Denise, her husband Kenny's the entrepreneur and he's very successful businessman, so he's always like buying her the latest technology gadgets and stuff like that. Yeah and he had bought her a Mercedes that had this bag in the, in the console there with the phone.

Speaker 2: 16:29

Oh, my dad had one of those, yeah it was literally like a box bag.

Speaker 1: 16:33

It was crazy yeah but I wanted to talk on it. So I would chew, let me call, and I'd be like when you get on, I would call me because I want to. I want to talk on the phone. So she would do that. But I was the. That was the latest technology I knew, oh.

Speaker 2: 16:46

I didn't know when Tommy handed you this. What kind of cell phone was it? Or a mobile phone for our inner National listeners?

Speaker 1: 16:53

It was a. It was like a black flip phone.

Speaker 1: 16:55

Okay, so it's a flip phone, yeah well, I didn't know how to open it. So and he was driving, he couldn't believe that. I was like I don't know what this is like, star Trek, I don't know. So he's shown me how to flip it open. And then he was just like you just dial the number. And so I dialed my mom's number and then I couldn't get her on the phone. So I had my stepbrothers number, so I called him and I was trying to get to my mom and he answered the phone but I could barely hear him and when I talked I couldn't hear myself talk. So I was like hollering in the phone. You know, later on he was laughing and told me you know, you just screaming your head off. But I didn't, I could, I didn't, I didn't know how to talk on the phone.

Speaker 2: 17:40

But you know, eventually I didn't know how to talk on the phone.

Speaker 1: 17:42

Well, no, like with a regular, like a home phone, you can hear. You, there's like you can hear yourself. And that one I couldn't, and it might have been because we were in the car and the background noise, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 17:52

Yeah but it was very difficult and then. But I finally got on the phone with my mom and you know her tears of joy and she's you know all that stuff and it was, and of course you know when are you coming to see me. Yeah, mom, you gotta give me a minute. I gotta figure out. I got a lot to figure out, you know. But I'm coming to see you, but you know there's a lot I Gotta get through. I got a lot of hoops to jump through.

Speaker 2: 18:16

It's hard to believe. I mean, our daughter just turned seven, so to think that you were in prison as long as she's been alive.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Yeah, that's crazy, it's crazy, you know.

Speaker 2: 18:25

Think of it from that perspective. It feels like a very long time.

Speaker 1: 18:29

It was the better part of the 90s.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:31

I mean, even to this day, people will tell me Like a classic movie that they love. And if it was during the 90s, I don't know. Yeah, that is, I didn't see that. I what I mean because we didn't get that pretty woman 90s movie. No, that was early 90s. Yeah that's all pretty woman. There was a lot of little movies in between.

Speaker 2: 18:50

Yeah, I can't think of any off the top.

Speaker 1: 18:52

What about Bob and all these?

Speaker 2: 18:54

Oh yeah, I don't know what that is. Okay, so you called your mom from the cell phone, flip phone which you had never seen before. Yeah, and then you had just gone to breakfast.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 19:03

Where were you heading next, while you're making all these phone calls.

Speaker 1: 19:07

He had set up an appointment for me to meet with the pastor of the church. So we went there next and these people were excited for me. You know they were part of it big part of it, but uh, I Know I've talked about this before, but I was taken back my first, I guess, initial meeting with the pastor. He Whatever happened with Chris. You know Chris had been there the year before.

Speaker 2: 19:36

Chris was your best friend who got out before you.

Speaker 1: 19:39

Yeah, and he basically went through to Shepard's flow, like I did.

Speaker 2: 19:43

And he was supported by the same church.

Speaker 1: 19:45

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was his church. Yeah but he had messed everything up. Yes, you talked about that so he was messing around with Him and the worship leader gotten a sexual relationship and it just it turned. Everything went bad, everything went bad. So by the time I got there, he, the pastor there, he kind of had a hard. He was trying to draw hard lines with me.

Speaker 2: 20:09

He was kind of scorned, I guess. Is that the right word?

Speaker 1: 20:12

Yeah, well, what ended up happening after all? That stuff happened with Chris. Then he had to confront the stuff and it ended up splitting his church, and you know. So he had been through a rough year with his church.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Okay, so you were going to meet him. He had set up an appointment.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Yes, but he was very harsh with me like during this meeting.

Speaker 1: 20:32

Yeah, and I was taken off guard from that because he was like basically like Let me know if I was trying to run any game or do any of the things that Christie you know, blah, blah, blah, all stuff, and it didn't didn't totally bother me because I knew I know who I am, I know what I'm doing, but it was just weird. It's kind of a damper on the day. Yeah, it's like okay, now I gotta feel like I had to prove myself to this guy. But I didn't know what I had to prove myself for because I mean, I knew I wasn't going back to prison, I knew I wasn't gonna get involved in crime, I knew I had Jesus, I knew the guy had a plan for me. So that was a little bit of a downer but I just felt like, well, he'll be, he'll figure it out. Yeah, he'll be fine, but he had been through, he's been through a rough.

Speaker 2: 22:40

Yeah, he had been hurt and also had to kind of deal with the aftermath of Chris's actions.

Speaker 1: 22:45

And by this time he was still dealing with it. Right, because it was. It was a lot of. It was just a mess. You know how churches and organizations are when they go through things and you know he was a guy come out of prison that caused all this chaos. And now here's another guy come out of prison right exactly so there was that, but we got through that.

Speaker 1: 23:05

I was very excited about the church, though it was a Wasn't anything traditional. This would be my first church that I've ever been in or that be a part of. I mean, I've been in other churches, but it wasn't like a big, you know, like religious church or you know. It was in a strip mall in Vestavia and it had about 50 hundred chairs a little how many 50 hundred Little church office, a little place for the kids and the little kitchen. It was just a small. It was, you know, just what I wanted right.

Speaker 1: 23:38

It was, you know, not part of a big, really religious organization. So I was like I was, I was happy to be there.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Okay, so you have the meeting at the church with the pastor. He was a little bit harsh. And then what did you do?

Speaker 1: 23:53

Then we went to Tommy's house. He was gonna show me. He was gonna show me where I was gonna stay and, if you remember, on my pro plan he was signed up to be mom, like practical right you just mentioned that earlier. Yeah, he was gonna help me with all the day-to-day stuff and he wanted to like he owned his own business so he could make his own schedule, a lot of free time, and then he was on staff at this church as like an associate pastor.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Okay so he was just Excited to be Getting to be walking alongside me to help. Yeah, yeah, and really all the people at that church were too. It was, it was neat. It was a neat time. Yeah and I guess I was kind of taken back when we pulled Into his neighborhood because it was like he lives in Kauhaba Heights, which was on the, you know, outskirts of Birmingham. Now it's actually part of a stave you, but at that time it was just unincorporated Jefferson County and it's behind the summit on 280.

Speaker 1: 24:53

Okay which is a big shopping center area. Yeah, and I'm Just the neighborhood like all these big houses, and then when we pulled up to his house I was like this is your house, I mean, because it looked like a mansion, like it was like there's two stories kind of tucked in a hill, yards and landscaping and flowers, and it was just beautiful.

Speaker 2: 25:16

I mean, you explain, you describe all that, and I think I mean because you had never, really you didn't grow up in a house or neighborhood like that, either, right.

Speaker 1: 25:25

No, I mean, my granny had a nice house.

Speaker 2: 25:27

Yeah, nice neighborhood I'm just thinking you're coming from prison being a prison cell. Yeah, one of the nicest houses You've ever been. That as far as I'm gonna stay here, I'm gonna say yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 1: 25:39

Yeah, I mean cuz this was, it was nice, it was, it was crazy.

Speaker 2: 25:44

What a contrast nose.

Speaker 1: 25:46

I felt like little orphan Annie, like coming in there, like hey, I'm James, I need to start clean the floors. I'm James from prison. But you know I'd met Tommy's wife Brenda. I met her at a family night and at another like thing, that event that they did and I really liked her she was. I Guess she would be like a I on the disc profile. She's very sanguine, very bubbly.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Little did see people, person life of the party.

Speaker 1: 26:11

It's so fun yeah but she like opened her arms and embraced me like. I actually nicknamed her that first week and the Nickname is stuck. Now it's been 20 something years later. I started calling her mother figure, mother figure, so she would call me son figure, so, but it was. They had one daughter, amy, and she was married and had a daughter and she lived out a clay or something, not close. She didn't live close, so it was just like a.

Speaker 1: 26:47

It was almost like they adopted somebody because they they allowed me to Stay there on the weekends because I had to be at Shepherd's fold, money through Friday, but then I could go somewhere on the weekends. So they were like, gave me a key like you, so Friday night I would go, sunday evening I would go back to Shepherd's fold and do my thing. It was, uh, it was crazy. Yeah, it was fun. But uh, the house Was intimidating because when you walked in the front door there was like this long winding store staircase, you know, like something out of going with the wind. You know this nice, just nice, expensive stuff, and this was the late 90s. So there was, you know, all those Colors so this is random.

Speaker 2: 27:33

What did Tommy do for a living, like what did they?

Speaker 1: 27:35

Tommy owned his own wallpaper business. Okay, so, gosh, if he were still alive, I bet he wouldn't have much business now I was not alive anymore. No, he passed away about four or five years ago.

Speaker 2: 27:47

Oh, what happened.

Speaker 1: 27:49

I think he had a heart attack. Oh he was. He was already Retirement age 20 years ago. Yeah, they were on up there. Yeah, they were grandparents, but he? What was the question?

Speaker 2: 28:01

Oh sorry. Well, first I said what did he do for a living? Because you were talking about the nice house.

Speaker 1: 28:06

Yeah, he did. He did wallpaper stuff, yeah, and then she worked for Vulcan materials. I don't know what that was, some kind of Something yeah she did like office work, but you they were just like injection of life for me. It's hard to think like I know I would have gotten through anything but just to have like people like that, cause everybody was supportive of me but not everybody's gonna invite you into their home. And give you a key to their house. You know that's weird.

Speaker 2: 28:38

I mean, I don't think I do that right now.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Well then there was one like, little bit of a like that bothered me initially. When we first got there, he told me that his parents lived in his basement and he said we can't tell my mom and dad that you're coming from prison. And I was like what? And I said well, I'm not gonna lie, you know, cause you know how I am.

Speaker 2: 29:01

I'm not gonna be in a situation I'm like okay, that's fine. I completely understand.

Speaker 1: 29:05

No, but I'm not gonna be in a situation Like if I got a lie about something. I'm just not gonna do it Like I'm not gonna cause that stresses me out Like I'm not.

Speaker 1: 29:13

No. So he was like James, I'm not asking you to lie, I'm just asking you not to say you came out of prison. So I said, okay, we'll see. I guess we'll see how that works out. And it did. I can tell that story later. There's a lot of stuff that came out of that, that, a lot of truths that I didn't know at the time, that I would learn as the days passed. But they took me in and he showed me where my room was gonna be and when he opened the door to the room, the bed, the floor, the dresser was flooded with clothes, cosmetics, underwear.

Speaker 2: 29:54

Cosmetics.

Speaker 1: 29:55

Cosmetic like deodorant and shampoo.

Speaker 2: 29:57

Oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:58

I didn't have anything, Hailey.

Speaker 2: 29:59

See, hailey, I guess I just I mean, you don't think of it when you don't know it, to think that you didn't have any of that shampoo or anything like that I don't have nothing.

Speaker 1: 30:10

I had a prison ID in my paper sack.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Those are the things you kind of take for granted, you know.

Speaker 1: 30:14

But they were so excited to show me and they were like this is all for you, Like the church has been doing this the last three months. They've been put together a campaign to get you set up for when you got out.

Speaker 1: 30:25

Oh me and you know, for me, I had my vision that I wrote and that was one of the things that was written in my vision was you're not gonna have to worry about clothes, don't want you worrying about none of that, I'm gonna take care of all that stuff. And so, like later that night, I like pulled my vision, like look, it's written in here, like Jesus told me to write this, and here it is. And they were like somebody was doing something, cause this was like the stuff just kept coming and just wouldn't stop. But it was. I literally didn't have to buy clothes for the first year. I was at a prison, wow, and it was, and I don't even know how they figured out my size, but everything fit. It was, I mean, some of it. They were like church clothes that were like somebody else's.

Speaker 2: 31:01

But I didn't care yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:03

I'm coming from, you know my white prison uniform, so that was no underwear yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Yeah, that real underwear I'd been wearing the prison boxers stitched up that were not comfortable for all that time. So it was a crazy day, crazy night. And then just to be able to sit and eat dinner and watch TV and then the next morning to wake up and be like this is real, like this is really happening, like I'm not in prison anymore. It was crazy Like the freedom I'm free, I'm really free. And they gave me a coffee cup that I still have that coffee cup to this day. It's in my downstairs kitchen.

Speaker 2: 31:44

Oh really.

Speaker 1: 31:45

It says it's got a little dog on it, a little dog like sitting on it, and it says look out world, here I come oh.

Speaker 2: 31:52

I've seen that. Yeah, I didn't realize where that came from. Well, tell me this though did you take a shower, Because I know those things are important to you? Did I take a shower?

Speaker 1: 32:03

Did I take it that was one of the things that they commented on the most over the next few weeks was gosh, you should have stayed in the bathroom a long time, but I had my own bathroom. Like I wasn't in their bathroom, but it was like I was trying to explain to them we didn't have bathrooms, we didn't have privacy, we didn't you know, I was ready to take a bath because I hadn't had a bath in seven years. There's no, there's no bathtubs in prison, there's only prison showers. So it was amazing, the whole thing was amazing. And then to wake up and to be free and To have your first coffee mug.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Well, to have coffee out of a machine, out of a coffee pot, cause we had instant coffee. Like we really have to get hot water and you stir in that instant coffee.

Speaker 2: 32:48

So you had nothing but instant coffee for seven years.

Speaker 1: 32:51

Yeah, well, sometimes certain church groups will come in they would do coffee in that, those big pots, but it always tasted burned, like it wasn't. It wasn't like making a pot of coffee. It wasn't fresh.

Speaker 2: 33:04

It's funny, those little things that you know. I don't think about that. If it's never been taken away, then you kind of take for granted, I guess.

Speaker 1: 33:12

Oh, there's so many.

Speaker 2: 33:13

That it could be, or you have a sweeter appreciation?

Speaker 1: 33:15

There's so many Going without it. One of the things that I noted when I was in prison like you never get to see the leaves fall, cause there's not trees on a prison compound, cause like a security risk. I mean you can sometimes see them off in the distance, but it's not the same. You never get to walk in the leaves. You don't get to go out at night, like you there's no, there's no movement at night. And if they have to move you at night, they put like two or three officers around you and so it's like a security thing. And then I remember one time I had to get moved at night at West Jefferson. I can't even remember what it was about, but I was outside, I don't remember why.

Speaker 2: 33:53

And it's like the only time you're out at night. No, there was this one time you got moved, I mean while in.

Speaker 1: 33:58

Alabama, in Alabama, but the guards up in the guard towers would put their lasers on you so that you could see, like the red dot on you, that if you try anything you're dead. Yeah, yeah, now I got moved some in the night when I was in Florida because I worked in the kitchen and I would do like two, 30 or four, 30, wake up, but there was always five or six guards like all around you, like it wasn't. You couldn't just go for a walk at night.

Speaker 2: 34:25

It wasn't like you were enjoying the fresh night air.

Speaker 1: 34:28

No, but now, even to this day, that's been what 20 something years ago. Sometimes, if I'm feeling ungrateful or grumpy, I'll open my front door and go for a walk. I mean, I might not go for a long walk, I might go to the mailbox and come back, but there's just something about being able to walk outside Like I'm free, I can look up, I can see the moon that God made, and there ain't no razor wire in between me and it and it does something for me, and that's that's, even to this day, like it's freedom is.

Speaker 2: 34:57

Oh, freedom, you definitely have an appreciation for it. I mean, like I said, someone like me who's never I mean I've always, I've never not had freedom, but because of that I've never thought about it. I don't think about it in the same way that you do. It's crazy.

Speaker 1: 35:12

But the food. Probably the food was the biggest thing for me, like I was eating.

Speaker 2: 35:15

What did you eat for dinner that night? Did I ask you that?

Speaker 1: 35:18

I don't think I can remember the rest of that day was a blur, it was no, we was eating. I just I remember the biggest thing for me was that, I noted, was that we could snack Like you could they had a little din, you know sit in there and watch TV and eat chips and I thought that was neat. And then he had a computer and you know he was trying to get down to business with me that first night and he was like we're gonna need to set you up an email address and I was like what is that? Like I don't know, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:49

What does that mean? Like what that did all come to pass, like in the 90s.

Speaker 1: 35:53

I don't know what, that we would in prison. We would see commercials or like on the news where they talked about the worldwide web or the internet or Yahoo or America online, and we didn't know what that meant. We didn't understand it. We didn't know what it meant. And then he wanted me to have an email address and explained to me like when you go for job interviews they're gonna want and I was like, what for for what? And so he helped me set up. My first email address was JKJ5372 at AOLcom and I would keep that for the next 10 or so years till AOL, you know, till Gmail came around Right After we set it up.

Speaker 1: 36:33

I was like, okay, now what do I do with it? And he was like, well, you can send emails. And then so he started sending me emails and I would open the emails and it like had some words. I was like, but you're sitting right here and suddenly I don't understand the concept, I'm not getting the concept. So it took me a minute. Then he tried to show me what the internet was, and it was that old, it was the dial up, the ee, dong, dong, dong. And I just like this is just, this is not productive, like I'm good with Little. Did you know I'm good with books. Just let me, I'll just read, I'll just use my books.

Speaker 2: 37:06

You are a late adapter, though, even to this day, I feel like, so I can imagine everything coming at once, like everything was.

Speaker 1: 37:14

I didn't want it.

Speaker 2: 37:15

Just a lot of things at one time.

Speaker 1: 37:17

I didn't want it, I wasn't interested in it. But then you know, the next day, waking up, making coffee, making breakfast, like I get to cook breakfast, I can cook my own eggs and toast, and you know stuff, it was crazy. But then we had to get down. It was the second day, it was business day, like we had a deep list of things that we had to go through. They gave you like a parole packet when you left of all the things that you would have to do.

Speaker 1: 37:43

And then my aunt, sue, she was always in charge of all my legal stuff, you know, the whole time that I was gone and she pretty much went through and you know, made the list and sent it to me Like he's got to do all these things. These are all the things that have to happen on the first day or the second day. So we had to dive in, deal with that. I had to report to my parole officer, I had to register as a convicted felon at the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department, had to go check in at Shepherd's Fold, get all the rules and all the things. But the first stop was the parole office.

Speaker 2: 38:17

And that's where you met your parole officer. So what does that look like?

Speaker 1: 38:21

Well, going in there, there was probably, there was probably about 30 guys sitting out in the, you know, waiting to get in, and you know I'm only one day out of prison, so I still and these are guys coming out of prison too, or, you know, at least acquainted with the criminal justice system. So I don't know how to talk to guys like that. I mean, I still do, to this day, if I go back in prison I don't know how to you know, tell you know what's really happening. So they were asking me, who did I get? And I showed them the name and they were like oh no, you got Linda O'Brien. She's the worst one. Like she's a hard ass, she's the one. Oh, good luck.

Speaker 2: 39:00

What makes her the worst? Just so, she's a hard ass, like you said, or?

Speaker 1: 39:03

I didn't know. I didn't know anything about it. They were just telling me, like there's 12 or 15 parole officers and apparently I got the doosie.

Speaker 2: 39:12

And what like. What is the role or the job of the parole officer Like? What's the point there?

Speaker 1: 39:18

You report to them and they're basically when you're on parole, they're in charge of you, they can arrest you, they can put handcuffs on you and take you to jail. Oh wow, yeah, because when you make parole you're out, you're free, but you belong to them until you complete the parole Because technically you're still a prisoner on parole. But I kind of got a little nervous when they started telling me about how bad she was. But then in my vision I had wrote down that your parole officer will be a part, will be to you a part of you know, fulfilling God's plan for your life. Your parole officer is gonna play a big part in that, and it was written there.

Speaker 2: 39:59

Like they were gonna be your advocate, or I can't remember the exact wording.

Speaker 1: 40:03

I can come back. It said you will have favor with your parole officer and he or her will be a big part of.

Speaker 2: 40:10

Oh, you'll have favor with yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:12

It said he or she will be a big part of fulfilling my plan for your life. It's what Jesus told me to write down. And so I was kind of nervous, but then I had that. So I was like I can get through this. So when I got in there and I met her, they were right, she was all business. She was not. There was no warm fuzzies, no fun and games, it was all business.

Speaker 1: 40:36

And she started telling me all the things and I just took out my notepad and started taking notes. You know, whatever I need to do, I'm gonna do it. But it was a little overwhelming. But at the same time I felt I can get through prison. I can get through whatever she's need me to do, right. So it's basically she was telling me, like when I reported the fees, how you paid stuff, how Drug tests, like all the things and anything.

Speaker 1: 41:04

How did she say it? She said You're free and you can go walk down the sidewalk like anybody else, but you're not free like other people because you have this hanging over you. So anything you do can I can send you back to prison. So whatever, I, if I can come to your house, I can come to your job. I can you know anything? And they can. They have that, that power. Basically you belong to them and there's nothing you can do except whatever they want you to do, right? So she, she gave me this big list and she was very like, harsh with me, like like I'm not playing games with you, and I just everything she told me I wrote it down, you know cuz I wanted to know, I needed to know. And then I gave her my pro plan and she was like what is that? And I said it's my pro plan. It's why they let me out on parole like these are all the things I'm doing right the things that you Agreed to do in different areas?

Speaker 1: 42:04

Yeah, and all the people I was gonna be accountable to, right, and she like pulled it over, she like looked at it and she read it, and then she just kind of went like and she said this is signed by Steve's long and anchor. And I said, yes, ma'am, he's one of my mentors. And she slid it back to me and she said she said, let him handle that, I'm not gonna be doing that so that was irrelevant for her, like she didn't care about that, even though that's was part of what got you out.

Speaker 1: 42:32

I think I understand now, like that's not, that's not what I'm doing, and if you I'm, she just want gonna be, she wasn't gonna give herself all that extra work, right? Okay, I understand that now, but she didn't tell me not to do it. She just said let Steve be, let Steve be the one to handle all that.

Speaker 2: 42:48

So what was the hardest thing of all the things that she told you of? You know, things that you had to do or keep up with, or whatever?

Speaker 1: 42:55

the worst for me, that first day, really the first month or so, was they put you on a thing called task. I don't know that is. It's a, it's a color-coded it's for. It's a thing for people coming out of prison or people on probation or people that are going to drug court drug courts when you got in trouble with drugs, it's like a diversion to prison. So they put them on this thing where you call in every day. You have a color, okay, so every day you have to call the number and it says today, the color for today is blue. So if your colors blue, it means you got to get down there and pee in the cup. So make sense. Oh, and there were so many cut. My color was fuchsia. I'll never forget my color, but the way she explained it to me was you have to call this every day and If your color comes up, so if they say your color when you call, yeah, you got to go but it's not.

Speaker 1: 43:47

You can't have the excuse that you forgot to call, because if you your color comes up and you don't go, you're dirty, and so that freaked me out like I ain't going back to prison over some nonsense like that, dirty meaning a positive drug test.

Speaker 2: 44:02

Okay, I've been using, so if you didn't go, it would just automatically automatically dirty if you don't go.

Speaker 1: 44:07

So what ended up happening was I Was so paranoid about that that I took post-it notes.

Speaker 2: 44:13

I can see you.

Speaker 1: 44:14

I had posted. Now I put post-it notes on my lamp, next to my bed, at Shepherd's fold, over the bed, on the mirror where I brush my teeth on my toothpaste. I had them everywhere Just in case I were to wake up and be fuzzy and, you know, to wake up late. I had those note, those little sticky notes, everywhere to remind me to call. And it was so hard. And then you know, if they called your color, you'd have to go down there and and and do the drug test, but there might be 30 people in front of you so you might waste four hours of your day down there.

Speaker 2: 44:47

You had to do it. There was no choice.

Speaker 1: 44:49

I mean I was gonna do whatever they told me to do. Yeah, but after my I Think it was the second month, because I had to go see her once a month, unless she, you know like came to see me because they want to see where you work, they want you know they're on you.

Speaker 2: 45:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:05

I went in and I said ma'am, I know this is gonna sound Like I'm trying to get out of something, but this task thing is bondage to me. And she was like bondage. And I was like this yes, I it's ruined in my life, like I can't. I can't function in the morning until I know that my number hasn't been called, and even when, when my color comes up and I have to go down. Then the last time I had to go down, I was late for work because you have to wait, and I said I promise you I Will come pee in a cup for you anytime, day or night, 24 hours a day, if you, if we can figure out a better way to do this, because this ain't this is bad, it's not, this is hurting me. And she leaned back in a chair and she said, okay, we'll be done with that. And I was like, just like that, yes, but then but have not cuz.

Speaker 2: 46:02

You asked not but later on she told me.

Speaker 1: 46:03

She said I've been a pro officer for 18 years and when you came in my office and you started taking notes of the things that I was telling you, that was the first time. That's never happened.

Speaker 2: 46:14

There's never been anybody that's hard to believe, though, really, for me, like thinking someone coming out of prison.

Speaker 1: 46:20

You would think that everyone has the want to to stay out of prison and like, let me just make sure I'm well, I was just serious about my freedom, right, because they can any technical violation, I mean, but I'd seen guys come back to prison for stupid stuff. Right, right, just for like moving, like you live somewhere and if you move somewhere else and you don't tell them, then that's a violation. Or if you step over a state line, that's a violation really. Yeah, like I couldn't even go see my granny unless I got a.

Speaker 2: 46:48

Oh, wow you have to get a traveling pass, like you have to go down there, you have to get a stamp and signed so if you were to just take a little weekend trip and forget to tell him you go back to prison, even if you just went?

Speaker 1: 46:58

technically you could wow. You know how to do that for 13 years. Wow 12 years. 12 years.

Speaker 2: 47:06

Make sure that, like you mean, you couldn't leave a state without letting your parole officer.

Speaker 1: 47:10

Yeah, no, you had. It has to be documented in case you get pulled over by law enforcement, because you, you, if they run you, if you get pulled over for speeding and they run you, that you're on parole and you don't have a parole pass.

Speaker 2: 47:22

You know it's crazy, you're still a loop or paranoid about getting pulled over, like for speeding, like basic things.

Speaker 1: 47:27

I don't like. I Love law enforcement. They're here to protect me.

Speaker 2: 47:32

I mean I don't blame you, but it's just funny. Once again you have like a different lens and perspective and like cuz they can viewpoint of it.

Speaker 1: 47:39

They can do that, but she ended up being really one of my biggest fans and one of the people, just like the vision said, that actually helped me get to my next place.

Speaker 2: 47:48

What can I tell my Introduction and just like viewpoint of that parole officer.

Speaker 1: 47:53

Linda, you've been on parole.

Speaker 2: 47:55

No, you're, we were married and had Lula. And on social media you know, you just noticed when the same people like things and comment things. Yeah and I noticed, you know this woman named Linda kept liking, loving, commenting, but she would say very, just, very like generous and like nice things about, I mean about our kids, but mainly you too, like man, you sure did hit the jackpot. You did get a good one. Yes, you did like just very encouraging, and you could tell me she was a huge fan of you.

Speaker 2: 48:30

Yeah and finally I was like who is this Linda person?

Speaker 1: 48:33

always, always coming on my social media now.

Speaker 2: 48:37

And you're like oh, that was my parole officer, so it is so neat to me that y'all are actually still connected to this day. And she she's retired, she's, she's not pro right, but she continues to be one of your biggest fans. And now in courage, or it's? Just in life in general and I was kind of neat and I genuinely love her.

Speaker 1: 48:55

Like she's she, there was never any crossing the line between professional, like she was always very professional. I remember my second or third year I was at a prison. I gave her a gift certificate to Leonardo's.

Speaker 1: 49:07

Mm-hmm, which is the restaurant you work yet yeah and she had to give it back like in explain you know we can come and eat and do all, but like that was like an ethical, like lime, oh, okay. So she was always a hundred percent professional, but she was also a hundred percent in my corner and she's always been my biggest fan and I just but I tell guys this now the guys are working with guys coming to prison it's because she had been burned so many times like these parole officers like the pastor.

Speaker 1: 49:37

Yeah, they've been burned so many times. It's not, and I'll say this quick, I don't want to get too hung up in this, but we get feedback from all across the nation, mm-hmm, and there's a lady that she said she was a federal parole officer.

Speaker 2: 49:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:54

I'm not gonna say your name I'm probably messed up for saying, but I got a message on social media from her. But she said that she uses this podcast as her devotional or inspiration To get through the week, to knowing that somebody can do something different and she can't make a difference and her job can matter.

Speaker 2: 50:12

Oh, that's me.

Speaker 1: 50:13

I mean, if we do stuff like that with this podcast, then I'm, I'm happy, I'm good, but but I tell guys, like you know, even if they're hard, do what they tell you to do, and they'll end up in your corner because she ended up in my corner, like she, and we'll talk about it later, but she went to bat for me several times but you really did.

Speaker 2: 50:33

I mean you were really. I mean from everything you're saying and just what I know about you making an effort To do things the right way.

Speaker 1: 50:40

Well, I wanted to be free right. But I want to stay free.

Speaker 2: 50:44

Yeah, but there's more people like you out there, right.

Speaker 1: 50:46

Absolutely. I don't think anybody, but I think in news and social media.

Speaker 2: 50:51

You don't hear those stories as much as you hear the other stories. That's true.

Speaker 1: 50:56

So well, I don't think it's so much a matter of people not wanting to be free or not wanting to stay free because nobody Wants to be in prison. It's Understanding the tools and the things that you need To do, like there's there's work on your part. You have there's things you got to do right.

Speaker 1: 51:13

You know we can say it now we're launching a separate podcast, a companion podcast, to the straight out of prison podcast. We're gonna call it into the unknown, where we're gonna see if it works, with just me on it, but it's gonna be more of like Lessons that I learned and stuff like that. Keep it short, you know 25, 30 minutes and Just all the things that I've learned since then and going through. You know, because there's a lot of lesson nuggets.

Speaker 1: 51:38

Yeah, I mean just like sit feeling sorry for yourself. That's one of the biggest enemies of people coming out of prison, because when you feel sorry for yourself, you can't move forward and then you end up wind up right back where you're from, right, or you know, being committed to not being a criminal or being committed to. For me, jesus, committed to the plan right and committed to my parole plan.

Speaker 2: 51:59

Whatever it is You're committed to yeah, and there's.

Speaker 1: 52:03

You know we could price. Once we start that podcast, we may not ever stop. I mean, there's cuz I'm. Yeah, I've learned something with every season of life.

Speaker 2: 52:11

Like when I think true to that, it's it's worth revisiting. I mean, I feel like I've learned that, like the things that I know I need to do and the wisdom and lessons like yeah. I learned them, I know I might do them, and then I get to another season of life and then I just like wait a minute, I stopped doing that or I need to be reminded. Yeah, and they're neat, they need to be on repeat. Some things just need to be on repeat.

Speaker 1: 52:33

And it's usually not complicated stuff right, it's not.

Speaker 2: 52:36

It's not anything. Even that's gonna take a lot of effort, it's just well, it's like the simple stuff, like you had your notebook and we're taking notes to remind yourself of what you need to do. I mean, it's just so simple. I didn't want to forget right, exactly that's what I'm like making the point.

Speaker 1: 52:52

No, I'm like we can gamble. We can gamble with Other stuff, but I'm not gambling with my freedom. I'm not. I'm taking my freedom. I'm taking my freedom serious because I Sad to say, but you know, seven out of ten guys come to that prison, go back. Within the first year they go back. And if I'm going back it's gonna be to be an encouragement. It's not gonna be, not gonna be like that. And you know, nobody wants to go back.

Speaker 2: 53:20

Yeah, so. So let's pick back up. You were, you met your parole officer. I mean, I guess you kind of fast forward a little bit with the task thing and then you got off the task.

Speaker 1: 53:29

That's true. Okay, so we're still in day two. Yeah so when it got through the parole officer, I could tell she meant business, but at the same time I knew I meant business too. So we're gonna we're gonna have a good relationship, and the reason why I know we're gonna have a good relationship is because it's written in my vision.

Speaker 1: 53:47

No, I was, but it was also written in my vision that this was gonna be a different kind of a relationship and you know, I showed her that maybe it might have been four or five years later. I made a copy of that page of my vision and I put in the Christmas card Because she ended up she was only with me for like four or five years. She got promoted to she was overall the parole officer, she was the boss, so, but she was still always in my corner.

Speaker 2: 54:12

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 54:13

And it Just she was good to the way she treated me, like when she would come into a home visit because she was required. Yeah, like when I got my first apartment she was required and I invited her in and she was like I don't have to come in and I said, well, I'm not, I'm not mad, you know, I know you got to do what you got to do, but she wouldn't, she would never like, she was never harsh, she never pushed, she never made me feel less than, but she always let me know James, your own parole. You know, just be careful, pay attention. You know, like you had to give them your, your checkstubs show much money made. You had a drug test. If I moved I had to let them know Any kind of a leaving state. I had to get permission, special permission, but she made it once. She found out that I meant business, that I was gonna do the right thing, then she was, she was in my corner.

Speaker 1: 55:06

Yeah no, she helped me with so many things but we can get into that later, but I'm very grateful for her. She's one of those people you know. But then I guess when we left there we had to go. There's a law, and if you don't, I don't even know if it's still a law back in that day Like it was a big deal. Like you have to register with the sheriff's office as a convicted felon and they give you a Convicted felon ID that you have to put in your wallet and if you ever get pulled over by law enforcement officer you have to present. You're supposed to present that first.

Speaker 2: 55:41

It's like the scarlet letter, yeah pretty much.

Speaker 1: 55:44

Yeah but I think it. I don't even know if it's still a law. I Still have it. I keep it in my car. I'm keeping my wallet like I'm.

Speaker 2: 55:52

I want to see it.

Speaker 1: 55:53

I'm sure to you.

Speaker 2: 55:54

Well, maybe you can put that on the patron page too. Yeah, I can do that, yes um, here's what it is.

Speaker 1: 56:00

But Got down to the sheriff's department, it was I was. Let me back up. No, nevermind, we'll come back to that. Okay, we'll do that another day. I was once about Walter when he came pick me up and took me at night for a ride through downtown Birmingham.

Speaker 2: 56:16

Who's Walter?

Speaker 1: 56:17

He was on. He was one of the Catholic guys that was on my pro plan he was my substance abuse connection sponsor. Yeah, just seeing Birmingham like at night.

Speaker 2: 56:26

This is the big city, yeah, this is the big city, like I'm in.

Speaker 1: 56:29

You know I'm a little orphan, ain't he?

Speaker 2: 56:31

Well, it was your equivalent to New York, I guess. Yeah, and it felt like it. I felt like it was crazy.

Speaker 1: 56:37

But I'm going to the sheriff where I come from. The sheriff's office was like a little hole in the wall place.

Speaker 1: 56:41

Yeah well, the sheriff's office in downtown Birmingham is like next to skyscraper Station. Yes, and they got like a statue of a slave, just it's just. It was a lot to try to take in. And then I went in, I waited my turn, I told him what I was there for and Then she gave me the papers. It was a sweet older lady behind the dash. She gave me the papers and she told me to read it before I filled out the stuff. So I read it and it said you can't go within 100 feet of a school.

Speaker 1: 57:13

You can't wow you can't go then anywhere there's kids, like it was just all, it was correct. Well, I started reading it and it was like 1520 things and it was like I can't go nowhere and I started crying and she said, baby, what's the matter? And I said I don't know. I just I can't do it. It's just saying I can't do nothing. And she said, baby, do you have a sex crime? And I said no, ma'am. She said flip it over. You reading the wrong side of the paper, that's where the sex crimes Thank you, jesus like. But I don't see how they make it like. I don't see.

Speaker 2: 57:53

I mean that's hard though.

Speaker 1: 57:54

But we got through that. They took my picture, gave me my after reading that I was like oh, I can do this Basically, perspective you start from one end, basically say you didn't have a gun and I only want a gun, so I'm good.

Speaker 1: 58:10

But that was, I guess, the second part of my morning and then let's just do the third part of this second day. So my next place that I went, tommy had gotten, he was wallpaper in somebody's bathroom and some condominiums on Rocky Ridge Road, which is a nice part of town yeah, where we come from. And as he was wallpaper and the lady was asking questions, he was telling her about his you know gig as associate pastor and for some reason he told her about me and you know this guy that he was working with those come out of prison and she was the general manager of Rossi's Italian restaurant on 280, okay, in Birmingham, and they were going through a relaunch where they had, like, gutted the building, redid the menu, got a chef from Italy, or actually two chefs from Italy.

Speaker 1: 59:04

Oh we're building out a new wait staff. But it was fine dining. It was banquets and I had Been in the restaurant business on my life. I knew how to cook, but I was always intimidated by the service side. The wait no people being a server, yeah and I wanted to learn that side of the business and I knew I wanted to make a lot of money Because they made more money.

Speaker 1: 59:26

Yeah so that was my plan. I was gonna learn how to wait tables, even if I only did it for six months or a year. I Was gonna conquer that because I was so like I felt like it was something I couldn't do. But I decided I was, I was gonna do what I couldn't do, so that I knew that I could. And and he had told her about me and she said well, when he gets out, bring him and let me talk to him. So that was where we went. That was our next stop.

Speaker 2: 59:52

Oh, wow, so that was on the second day.

Speaker 1: 59:54

Second day we went to Rossi's in Birmingham. I talked to her and Her husband Pat they were like co-managers and the dining room manager His name was Nabil- Nabil. He Nabil. He was from Israel, but he wasn't Jewish. She was like Palestinian, I guess. And they didn't even make me for application and I was just honest about you know everything, didn't hide anything. And they told me to be there tomorrow night.

Speaker 2: 1:00:25

Here's the deal. I just got out of prison two days ago.

Speaker 1: 1:00:28

No one day ago.

Speaker 2: 1:00:30

One day ago I got out of prison yesterday morning. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 1: 1:00:36

This is Tuesday around lunchtime. I got out of prison yesterday morning.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

That is so funny.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

Two days ago I was at West Jefferson. I can just envision that conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:00:46

I mean just break this down for you.

Speaker 1: 1:00:48

Well, I didn't want to, no, but he had already told us a backstory, so they already knew.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:53

And it was, but this was a nice place. This was like the Hilton Hotel. Remember, I told you I worked at the Chattahooch River Club, my last job was Patrick.

Speaker 2: 1:01:02

Yes, yes, this was on that same level it was fine, dining it was not. She went from West Jefferson prison cell to fine dining.

Speaker 1: 1:01:10

Well, and it was neat because the timing of it was so neat, because they were putting together their new wait staff because they had been closed down for two, three months.

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

So it was like starting new. I mean, they were starting new.

Speaker 1: 1:01:22

There were two weeks out from their grand reopening and that was the two weeks they were going to take to train their wait staff. They had already trained their kitchen staff everything, and they hired me.

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

Wow.

Speaker 1: 1:01:34

And so I got a job. And not just that I got a job, but it was a job I wanted. I wanted to learn how to wait tables and I knew that I could make money at it. And I needed because I don't know if we talked about this, but I had about $45,000 worth of fines that I had- to deal with.

Speaker 2: 1:01:55

Well, we've talked about that there was restitution, but I didn't know that there was $45,000. Good Lord.

Speaker 1: 1:02:01

Yeah, it was crazy and it was two different municipalities so I had one I had to do for Florida, one for Montgomery, one for Shelby County. The first letter that I got from the state of Florida, my fees for the month were almost $300 a month and then I had to pay $30 a month to be on parole. I had to pay $30 a month to Montgomery. I had to pay $30 a month to Shelby County. So I panicked when I saw, like how can I live? Like that's a lot of money.

Speaker 2: 1:02:35

So how much did you have to pay a month at that point?

Speaker 1: 1:02:39

Originally it was like $500 a month.

Speaker 1: 1:02:42

Oh wow, that was just my stay out of jail card, but I was in a. I think it was my second time I met with Lino Bryant. I was like this is, this is seems unreasonable. And so she pulled some strings. She got it fixed. She waived her fee, so I didn't have to pay her fee. She got it down to the lease that she could get it down to was I had to pay Florida $75 a month and then $10 a month to Shelby County, $20 a month to Montgomery, which made it like around $100 a month.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

See, to me this speaks to why so many people go back into prison. Because, if you know, you have this number amount of money after pay every month, and I can imagine most people were not like you and then just defaulted because it's like how am I going to do that?

Speaker 1: 1:03:30

I mean, I'll do my best. I paid that, for I paid anything.

Speaker 2: 1:03:32

But it speaks to what I was going to say is the communication line and keeping that open, and you going to her and saying, okay, I want to do this, I want to do exactly what I'm supposed to do, but I just didn't see how. Right, exactly, but her being able to help you because you communicated that, instead of just defaulting- yeah Well, I couldn't default.

Speaker 1: 1:03:55

If I defaulted, they locked me back up. Which?

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

is why so many people go back is the point I'm making.

Speaker 1: 1:03:59

It's crazy If you ever get tangled up in the criminal justice system in America unless you got like a rich dad or something that can buy your way out of it. I shouldn't say that that sounds harsh but it is A lot of times it comes down to money. It's hard to get out.

Speaker 2: 1:04:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

And from the time I started in 1993, my final deal with them was May of 2012, when it was all over forever.

Speaker 2: 1:04:29

Colleen.

Speaker 1: 1:04:30

So that's what 12% and then we met.

Speaker 2: 1:04:32

We met May 2012.

Speaker 1: 1:04:33

No, we met in November 2012.

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

No, we went on our first date in November 2012.

Speaker 1: 1:04:39

OK, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:04:41

Anyway, that's a long time.

Speaker 1: 1:04:43

Yeah, we didn't meet. We met in April of 2012. That's when OpenCarrows we digress. And what all I'm saying is is that you're getting around when you get in trouble and you get tangled into this system. It takes forever to get untangled and get out of it. It's not an easy task.

Speaker 2: 1:05:03

Even in your case, you're trying to do everything right and really really trying.

Speaker 1: 1:05:06

Oh yeah, I mean we'll talk about that more. I had a lot of parole. It was not hard, but it also wasn't easy. I mean I counted it one time, so I've had to come down here physically, put my body in downtown Birmingham once a month for 12 years. I had the number one time like how many times I had to ride down there. But it's what you got to do. I just made it. It's just what I got to do. Do what I got to do, got to stay free. So you got a job Second day, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:36

Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

Started on the third day and then met my parole officer, did my prison felony card thing, got a job. Then it's time to go to Shepherd's Falls. But I guess we'll make that be the next episode.

Speaker 2: 1:05:52

But still day two. So you went to Shepherd's Falls.

Speaker 1: 1:05:54

day two Later in the afternoon.

Speaker 2: 1:05:56

It was my first day there.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

It was not what I was expecting, but it was part of the process, so here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:06:03

Here we go, all right, well guys this has been good Free at last.

Speaker 1: 1:06:06

Free at last. Thank God, almighty, I'm free at last. But just remember, freedom comes with a price. Like you need to do what you got to do to stay free, absolutely All right, we'll see you next time, guys.

Speaker 2: 1:06:19

Thanks guys, Bye.

Speaker 1: 1:06:21

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. For more exclusive content, head over to our website, teamjonesco.

Speaker 2: 1:06:30

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the Become a Patron button and that's going to give you access to our For Real, Real, which is very different than the Highlight.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

Real Some very juicy content there. Good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram. Straight Out of Prison podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:06:48

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level, where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it, and you will too. Prison recipes, yeah all the things Good stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:07:03

We'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:07:04

Thanks bye.

Speaker 1: 1:07:05

Bye-bye, bye-bye.