From Prison to Halfway House: My Journey of Resilience and Rediscovery

Straight from the heart, we're bringing you a personal narrative that both exposes the realities of life in a halfway house and reflects on the challenging aftermath of prison life. Sit down with us as we draw back the curtain on this transformative journey, where you'll find me, your host, at the center. This is a riveting tale of resilience and rediscovery — my own story of navigating life in a halfway house and the relentless pursuit of finding my place in the world again, post-prison.

In our discussion, we'll traverse the hallways of the halfway house I called home after release. We'll introduce you to the characters that make up this unique community, the strict rules that govern it, and how, despite its restrictive nature, it serves as a lifeline for those eager for a fresh start. We ceaselessly wade through the ebbs and flows of dorm life, tackle conflicts, and navigate the spiritual differences that often surface in such places. Through my experiences, you'll grasp how a halfway house can be both a refuge and a training ground for life's next battle.

Upon leaving the halfway house, the journey doesn't end, it merely changes course. An equally challenging path lies ahead as I reunite with estranged family and grapple with guilt, remorse, and a drastic change in family dynamics. We'll venture into my mother's 'redneck paradise,' a drastic living situation that's a stark contrast to the halfway house rules. By the end of this episode, you'll have a more profound understanding of the challenges faced by individuals post-prison and the essential role halfway houses play in smoothing that road. Join us for an enlightening discussion where the humanity behind the stigma is unmasked, and life’s raw, unfiltered truths are laid bare.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:03

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. This is season three, episode two. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:11

And this is Hailey Jones and this is his story that has now become a part of my story we got a story. We do.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Little did I know.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Prison was included in that when I married you.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Not just prison. You got parole in your story halfway house.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Yeah, well, yeah, which I have some questions about, since it is my story today. So we left off. You were about to go to your, to shepherd's fold, which is the halfway house. Yeah, that was in your plan. Yep, you had gone literally from prison one night sleeping to the next night you're sleeping in one of the nicest houses you had ever seen in real life. Day two of being out of prison, you got a job.

Speaker 1: 5:54

I got a job.

Speaker 2: 5:55

So yeah, I met your parole officer, which was the real hard ass.

Speaker 1: 6:00

I said quietly I guess it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 6:03

But okay, so you're ready to go Now, shepherds fold is a halfway house. I did have a question when I was thinking about recording today, because I just don't have any experience with a halfway house. What exactly is a halfway house? Because when I think of that term, I think of people that are on drugs, that don't pay their rent, that are just finding an abandoned house and going and living in it.

Speaker 1: 6:23

No, I mean, most halfway houses are programs.

Speaker 1: 6:26

So they're trying to help people. There's different types. There's some for people like coming out of recovery or trying to get off drugs. There's some for people that just have had, you know, like financial problems and they need some help. You know they need a place to land to figure it out. And then there's some. You know, when I had Kairos in Birmingham, I worked with the Bethany home and it was a halfway house but it was helping women come out of abuse, like it was a secret house. Nobody knew, like they made me. You can't say where this is.

Speaker 2: 6:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:57

And they would help women, you know, escape their abusers and put their life back together and then move on. And then there are other ones where they can bring their kids. They're just all over. But they're not all good. Now, all halfway houses are not just cause they say they got a 501 C3 in their nonprofit does not make them good cause. Some of them are rough.

Speaker 2: 7:16

Well, another question random why do they call it a halfway house? You're halfway somewhere.

Speaker 1: 7:23

Well, the idea is it's like a step up, so I didn't want to go to a halfway house, I wanted to go home. You know, steve was the one who taught me into it and he taught me it was part of my parole plan of committing.

Speaker 1: 7:34

You know it's not long. What is four months? And I remember, as I was debating whether he was right or not, it did sound wise, like you don't want to get straight out of prison, you don't want to go. He called it going to mom and him's house. Don't go home to mom and him go figure it out somewhere else. So there was a part of me that felt like he was right. But then there's another part of me that felt like you know, I don't want to do all that.

Speaker 1: 7:56

But as I was thinking about that, you know, couple of two, three days, when we were doing our parole plan, I thought to myself how many four months did I do in prison? And I counted them up and I did a lot of four months in prison. So four months is nothing. And it ended up being like one of my best decisions was going there because it just gave me I didn't have to go straight out into the world and start trying to figure it out. I had some room to breathe and you know they helped me. You know, get to the next place, and that was his goal. Halfway houses for people coming out of prison are just to help you take the step to get to where you need to be.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Like halfway to full freedom or something.

Speaker 1: 8:35

Yeah, Well, like Mr Gilbert, who we've talked about on this podcast, he's one of my closest friends, but he's also part of our family. He works for CLCC, which is part of the Foundry. All they do there is they have 50 plus-.

Speaker 1: 8:48

You're an Alabama, you're talking about they have 50 plus bed spaces for people to come and you know, they get a job, they pay rent, they learn how to be responsible, get a check-in account, you know, figure it out and then move on. But their only goal for them is that they become a head of household somewhere.

Speaker 2: 9:03

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 9:03

So it's-.

Speaker 2: 9:04

Like head of household.

Speaker 1: 9:06

Yeah, like you have your own place.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 9:08

Like you're not moving out of the halfway house to go live with Aunt Vicki or-.

Speaker 2: 9:11

Oh, like that, you get your own place.

Speaker 1: 9:13

Yeah, that's the goal, because I mean everybody needs their own space, their own place, I mean, and it's just part of growing up and being responsible.

Speaker 2: 9:22

Right.

Speaker 1: 9:22

And unfortunately that guy's coming out of prison. Most of them never learned any of that. Like Chris, he didn't know anything. He never knew how to write a check. He didn't know how to do nothing. I mean, I was a little I don't want to say ahead Like I knew how to do like basic stuff like pay my bills, and you know I had a right check. You know I did all this, I had all that stuff before I went to prison.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Right, because how old were you when you went into prison again?

Speaker 1: 9:45

I was 20, but I had never lived on my own. Yeah, so 20 is pretty young.

Speaker 2: 9:49

A lot of people 20 years old have not moved out yet.

Speaker 1: 9:52

I was still in my mom's house.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:54

I paid. I mean, I had like a check in account. I had to budget my money for what I wanted to spend and then I had to pay my truck payment Right. I mean that was my only peels.

Speaker 2: 10:03

But your brain wasn't even fully developed when you went to prison, yeah that's true.

Speaker 1: 10:07

But so that's what a halfway house is, and some of them get a bad rap, some of them should get a bad rap. Some of them are not good, Some of them are there to make a profit. But that was not the case with Joe Brombach and Shepard's Fault. His heart was 100% in it for the men and I had developed a relationship with him over the previous I guess like 18 months, because he was one of the volunteers coming in to help us in the honor dorm and he would teach classes and do stuff like that. I won't say that like we had like a warm, fuzzy relationship because he was I don't know how to say it Like it's not a negative. We just didn't, we didn't click. Like I couldn't see myself going and spending the day with him, you know, hanging out with like Pastor Bill or Steve or something like that. I could do that Well.

Speaker 2: 10:55

I think it's just-, but he was a good man.

Speaker 1: 10:56

I had respect for him.

Speaker 2: 10:57

It's just like a basic. I mean, you don't everyone doesn't click with everyone. I've discovered that, being a teacher, that, even though you know I love all my students and want the best for them, there are some students that just our personalities did not jive and some were like, oh, this kid is amazing. So I think it doesn't matter the age or the season, you just click with some people and you don't with others. Okay, so you got there and what was your first impression or thought like, what did you do? You check in like a hotel.

Speaker 1: 11:29

No, I was. I was shocked by the neighborhood. I'd already been prepped, though. There were a lot of guys that were with me in the honor dorm that were from Birmingham and they were familiar with Southwest Birmingham. It's a bad neighborhood, and I had two or three of them even the day before, the night before or the day I left, to say James, look me in the eyes. I know how hardheaded you are. You're stubborn, you think you can do whatever you want. Don't go for a walk in the neighborhood by yourself and don't even go outside at night. And they were right. It was scary and it was like one way during the day, but at night you can hear gunshots, you can hear screams, you can hear sirens. It was just, it was rough.

Speaker 1: 12:07

It was a rough neighborhood. I was prepared for that, but I, you know, I told myself you know I'm gonna do what I do, I ain't in prison. And then I was also taken back by. Like it just looked like poverty, like it was an old, rundown house. It was like one of those big old-timey houses, like from, you know, 200 years ago, where there's steps in the middle, no hallways, every room led to another room, led to another room and there were like 30, 40 guys living there and I mean it was like Square footage wise. It would have been like a mansion but it was, you know, it was run down and the crepe it and old and yeah, but 40 people living in.

Speaker 1: 12:50

Well, we had plenty of space. Okay, it wasn't. It wasn't like tight, like we weren't like busting at the seams. Everybody had their own space. Most of the rooms were two man rooms, some of them were three man rooms and then there were two or three like one man rooms. You know, it didn't take me long to negotiate. I Think my second month I negotiated. You know I need that one-man room because it was, it was a trip but you started in a three-man room, or it was a two-man room.

Speaker 1: 13:19

I was in a middle room, which meant that my room was like a hallway, so there was me and somebody else sleeping on the next bed over, but there were huge rooms so it wasn't like we're close. I had my own closet with and he had his own closet. And Joe, I told me, go straight and get a lot before you put anything in your um closet. And I didn't listen and I found out quick that they stalled everything there. They were still your toilet paper, they were still your toothpaste, they were still your toothbrush, they were still there was. They was still anything that you left laying there, except for a bible or any kind of book.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Who's they, the other men living there?

Speaker 1: 13:58

the other people living there, yeah, so it was like a digressed. It was worse than prison in that sense. It was like I had been by that time almost two years in the honor dorm and we had gotten so used to. We didn't even lock our, we didn't lock anything because nobody stole from each. I wasn't like that and it was like, gosh, now I'm free, now I feel like I'm going backwards, like on that front.

Speaker 2: 14:18

That is ironic.

Speaker 1: 14:19

It was uh. I learned that lesson the hard way, like after I went home and brought some of my stuff back. My mom had been collecting stuff for me for all those years and she bought me a leather jacket. Actually, ironically, in the in the 90s if you smoked marbara cigarettes you could get point. You keep the thing and mail them in to get points. She had saved up her and all her husbands marbara cigarette things.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Or ex-husband, I don't know they.

Speaker 1: 16:07

They were divorced and married and I don't know they lived together. But she got me a leather bomber jacket.

Speaker 2: 16:13

Is that the same one you had when we got married?

Speaker 1: 16:15

No, I didn't have it, I put my stuff up. When I came back, I put my stuff up and didn't lock the thing. I went to take a leak. I mean gone literally like four minutes. Yes, and when I came back, I came back and opened up my closet the uh coat hanger that was holding my leather jacket was moving like Like we gone, we're gone and I got it was waving to you I got upset, I stormed in everybody's room. I was pissed because.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Where was it? How can they hide it? I?

Speaker 1: 16:48

mean I don't know, but I did. That night at dinner I said if y'all steal something else from me, I'm calling the police and joe's like you can't do that. So I said, let them steal something else from me, I'm calling the police. But I felt bad because like more violated than just getting something stolen from me, because all these people kept giving me stuff and the stuff just kept coming and coming and coming. And then when I went home my first weekend of phoenix city I came back with a car loaded down full of stuff and I didn't need all this extra stuff, so I gave it to them, like I gave everybody something, like I was letting people go through the clothes and underwear and you know. And so I just felt Felt violated taken advantage of.

Speaker 1: 17:28

yeah, yeah, so but then after that I learned to keep my stuff locked. I slept on my wallet because I was afraid some like because there were people. There were people that put their money under their mattress and people would steal it under their mattress while they were asleep. So that part of being around criminals Was worse there than it was in the honor zone, because that was a shock.

Speaker 2: 17:48

That's crazy. I would say my only experience, that's like even close to that, as I stayed in a hostel when I was traveling what is a hostel?

Speaker 1: 17:55

is that like where hookers?

Speaker 2: 17:56

no, james, no, it's like.

Speaker 1: 17:59

Oh, that's a brothel.

Speaker 2: 18:03

Yes, big difference. No, it's like a cheap hotel, but it's not really hotel at all. It's kind of like apartments, but like young student or students.

Speaker 1: 18:11

Maybe not just that where you had to sleep on your.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Yeah, save money like stay, and you can pick Like an eight person room or a 16 person room or four to one, but the more people in the room, the cheaper it is. How long did you? Do that I usually have this community kitchen. I did it for three weeks. That everyone can use, but you have to bring your own sheets. It's like so it's not the comforts of a hotel, but I remember that and I was Gosh hello.

Speaker 1: 18:37

This was cross the water.

Speaker 2: 18:39

I was 22 and I do not travel like you know. You hear these backpackers going through Europe. That was not me. I had to was this?

Speaker 1: 18:46

cross the water over yonder.

Speaker 2: 18:47

Yeah, this in London, england and I put my suitcases on my bed and slept on my suitcases because I, when I got there, I did realize this is not the best.

Speaker 1: 18:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:59

Good thing my parents don't know I'm here.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Oh, I bet. Anyway, that was so you understand how I felt.

Speaker 2: 19:04

Yeah, I mean kind of I don't know if it was bad as where you were, but Well, it was similar idea. They were stealing everything.

Speaker 1: 19:11

Yeah, so that caused me like to not.

Speaker 1: 19:13

You know, I didn't, I wasn't bonding with any people right just let me do my four months, get me and get me out. But my first meeting with Joel he said James, usually when I'm helping someone that's in prison and I'm helping them get out of prison, they treat me like I'm Jesus Christ superstar. They love me, the sun razzes and sets on me, but then it usually takes about two weeks after they're here that I turn into the devil because I make them do stuff. So he said don't, please, don't do that to me, because I mean we're brothers, your father along the mostly's guys, just be aware of that.

Speaker 2: 19:46

So basically you're saying he had to Do just the rules y'all, that there was rules in the house and he had to yeah, it's the word I'm looking for, like structure and Like incorporate or keep people accountable to the rules. Yeah, he was a stickler for yeah. So what were some of the rules and what were things that were?

Speaker 1: 20:05

Well, they weren't too complicated, but then some of them were aggravating. Um, everybody had ever you had to. You had chores that you didn't house. Everybody had a chore and they assigned them like once a week. Then you had a you had to pay rent. So that was like 135 dollars a week. They wouldn't kick you out if you didn't pay your rent, but if you didn't pay your rent you would develop like an account with them where you owe the money and then if you had too many unpaid rents, you couldn't get a pass. So a pass for what? Well, you had to be there Monday through Friday.

Speaker 1: 20:42

Okay but if you could get a pass and you had somewhere to go, you had to tell them where you're going. Then you could leave on the week. You could leave on Friday night, come back on Sunday night by 10 30.

Speaker 2: 20:51

It's like a boarding school.

Speaker 1: 20:53

Yeah, I guess. Maybe I don't think I missed a weekend. I left every weekend. I mean I stay there just as long as I had to stay there, and then I was out.

Speaker 2: 21:00

You stayed at the at Tommy's house, tommy and Brenda.

Speaker 1: 21:03

Yes, they, they, they. Let me do that. And then, um, I think I went to phoenix city the weekend of christmas and just stayed a couple days, but I didn't like it. I'm getting ahead of myself.

Speaker 2: 21:15

Yeah, so the rules in the house.

Speaker 1: 21:17

So then, uh, the other rule was that you had to Be in every day by six and then everybody ate dinner together and then after dinner they had some kind of class or devotional or something. Sometimes joe did it, sometimes his assistant, happy, did it, and then sometimes they brought in volunteers, um, and then on wednesday night they did alcoholics, anonymous, because joe was big into that AA stuff and me and him kind of butted heads about that because it was the, he had been an alcoholic, and then you had an experience with Jesus and then he got into AA and so that was like his, that was what he did, and he thought that all of us need to do that and I was like I'm not into all that, like I'm into Jesus, like I'm not. So we had some back and forths about that and you know, I did acknowledge. I know that the 12 steps in AA came from the Bible. I know that they didn't do that.

Speaker 1: 22:12

Yeah, absolutely. But they like sanitize them to make it like, well, it's not a religious thing and the 12 steps work. But my problem was I believe things like that need to be seasonal. Like we do the 12 steps, we admit that we're powerless over whatever, and then we acknowledge and then we do all the things, but only into that. You need to keep going and not look back. I felt like I felt like they some of that stuff not all of them, but some of them keep that as like an identity thing Like my. My identity is I'm an alcoholic and I just I told him I can't, that's not, I'm not gonna be doing all that. My identity is not gonna be ex-convict or ex-criminal or ex-drug addict or ex-anything Like. My identity is I'm a son of a living God. I gotta keep moving. So he relented on that. He let me go to church on Wednesday nights because he knew I was going to church and he knew I was doing you know all the things I said I was gonna do, but he I loved Joel.

Speaker 1: 23:05

It was hard when I was there not to do the rules. It was. It was just little things, like I was trying to to to sack up some money so I could get my own place and do them on things. And the rule was you couldn't work at night, monday through Thursday. So I was working in a restaurant in a fine dining. So if I worked at lunch I might make $50. But if I worked at dinner I might make $200. So I was forced to work only lunches Monday, wednesday, thursday but then Friday I could do a double and then on Saturdays I could do a double, and then they were closed on Sundays unless we had a party.

Speaker 1: 23:39

But he ended up like slowly over time, like I would get my balls at Rossies to call him and say we really need James, and he would let me work. So he finally pulled me in. It's like look, you can work one night a week, just pick the night. And then, because I know that you're not doing my program, and it just seems to me that you feel like Shepherd's Fold is a necessary evil for you. So and I was like well, it kind of hurt my feelings, like Joel, I appreciate you, I don't. I don't want to seem like I'm not grateful, but it kind of is a necessary evil for me, like I'm.

Speaker 2: 24:12

I'm just this is something I'm going to say it was just a step for you.

Speaker 1: 24:14

I'm not staying there. Some of those guys have been there for two years and I'm doing my four months that I committed to and I'm out, I'm out.

Speaker 2: 24:22

It really does sound like. I mean, tell me if this is correct. It sounds like how my house was with my parents when I was in high school. So we dinner together. You have to be home by a certain time you have to do certain things, but all the while, I'm looking forward to the day that I can move out and save money.

Speaker 1: 24:41

You know the young thing, yeah, and it was a. It was a. We also had conflict about my car. My mom had saved her car for me and been in her backyard for like four years. It was a little Honda Accurand. When she got another one, she just saved that one for me when I got out and so I needed to go get it and he told me you can't have it here, you can't have a car until you get $400 in the savings account and the bank can show it to me, and you have to have insurance and you'll get your license and all that.

Speaker 2: 25:06

So so that was just the rules for the house.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Yeah, it was a house rule.

Speaker 2: 25:09

So, yeah, similar, but it was annoying.

Speaker 1: 25:12

Like I got a car, like I've got a car. So he gave me some bus passes that first day, these little tokens, and he told me, gave me a copy of the bus route of the Birmingham Metro, what else? Called and told me I need to go find a job. So I was like I already got a job. But I was. I was like torn because I was like they just push people out the door in the morning morning, tell them go get on a bus. I don't even know how to ride a bus, I don't know where they go, I don't know how it works. I mean I could figure it out and it went wrong. But I braced myself. I'm not going to be able to get my car from them, I'm just going to have to learn how to ride the bus. But I ended up the way it ended up. I would have. I didn't think I was too good to ride the bus, but then people just started wanting to help and give me rides and stuff. So it didn't know.

Speaker 2: 26:03

So you never had to ride it.

Speaker 1: 26:04

No, and it didn't take me long to once. I started working to save up my money and then get my savings account that he wanted to get insurance and stuff like that and to be able to have my car. So it was like six weeks maybe before I got my car, but it was like getting out of prison again because now I'm free. I'm so free I can go where I won't, except you have to be back by six.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Yeah, when you're not working A couple of weekends I could go, yeah, so that was pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 26:30

I mean, it definitely sounds like they're like spoon feeding people like how to be a responsible adult.

Speaker 1: 26:36

It was helpful for me and I needed to do it, but it wasn't. There was no like. There's nothing inspiring about that. You know, it was like I don't know. I just it's like I ain't aiming to be doing none of this Right, I need to, I just needed.

Speaker 2: 26:53

What was not inspiring, because I mean to me it was just. You said it was a four month gig.

Speaker 1: 26:58

It was four months.

Speaker 2: 26:58

Yeah, and that was supposed to be for everyone. Is that right?

Speaker 1: 27:01

It's a minimum of four months.

Speaker 2: 27:03

A minimum of four months.

Speaker 1: 27:04

They wouldn't like kick you out when you got to the end of the four months.

Speaker 2: 27:06

The goal was, after four months, that you, that was that's what said on paper, but most of those guys didn't do that.

Speaker 1: 27:12

Okay there were guys that have been there for years or there. Then they would be like house parents or something, where they let them live there for free, but they had to lock the doors at night and then it was just, it was too much. I just this, I just didn't want to be, joel live there, just curious. No, there was a living quarters for staff person. Okay, this was one of those old houses that probably Back in the day it was like four apartments, two downstairs with two upstairs.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Okay but it had been converted into, like this, halfway house. Yeah and the one on the bottom to the right was a, it was like an old Joel's office, and then there was like a living room, bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, and that was where the staff person, okay, stayed. And now it was another one, the guy that was the staff person there.

Speaker 2: 27:56

Was that the assistant or a happy?

Speaker 1: 27:58

his name was happy. Okay and he was skinny little guy Haggard looking. No, he was like from Ohio, okay, but he looked like like a stoner, like he was out smoking weed he wasn't, but like he had that look like a hippie kind of look.

Speaker 2: 28:15

And what does the stoner look like?

Speaker 1: 28:16

you know, just unkept, I was one flip-flop.

Speaker 2: 28:19

Okay, just.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Langing, you know lamping dreads.

Speaker 2: 28:24

He didn't have a dress, but I could see him with dreads.

Speaker 1: 28:27

Okay you know, carry your backpack everywhere.

Speaker 2: 28:32

I don't know.

Speaker 1: 28:33

I didn't like him. He didn't like me. What didn't you like about him? He was annoying. He was like this Like little spur in my side from the time I walked in there, like somebody saw my toilet paper the second day I was there and if you have to use the bathroom, you have to have toilet paper.

Speaker 2: 28:50

Okay, pause, though Maybe it's some people don't know. I don't know if we've mentioned this before, but James is very particular about his toilet paper. I know eight years that we've been married. I have bought the wrong toilet paper a couple times and that was not okay. It's only the blue shaman right had nothing on team Jones because we were good on our toilet paper.

Speaker 1: 29:16

Yeah, well, that came from prison, right? I learned that in prison. Like you have to stay ahead Because you never know. You never know when things change. Yeah, like you can get in a toilet paper drought. Like I'm gonna have mine. I.

Speaker 2: 29:32

Okay. It was like screaming wait, it got stolen from you, though, right.

Speaker 1: 29:37

Yeah. So I went and asked for another toilet paper and he started screaming at me didn't understand it, didn't I know? And I said don't I pay rent? Don't we pay rent? They don't pay for the toilet paper, la la la, and like just. And this was like my second day, and it was like it was after 10, 30 because the doors were locked and I just said, just give me the toilet paper and for the rest of my time here, I promise you, you'll never, I will never ask you for another toilet paper or anything. So just let me get. And I didn't. I went about my own toilet paper. He was just annoying, he's one of those little. He was like a saver, like a, you know, like a. The world's going in if you flush the toilet, kind you know cuz you're wasting water and if you're gonna flush the toilet.

Speaker 1: 30:20

No, we had our biggest argument that we had everybody had to do kitchen duty one night.

Speaker 1: 30:25

And they have. This lady that cooked back there Like breakfast was like cereal you had. If you wanted to eat lunch there you had to make your like a sandwich before you left. I never I don't think ever made anything there, because I mean I worked in a restaurant so I had it. It was nice what I had going. But then we had dinner, but then we had to clean the kitchen and do all that stuff and it was my turn to wash the dishes. And when I went and I looked at the sink it was disgusting like it was like teeming with Stuff and debris and so I ran some water on it, got some comment and started scrubbing the sink. And he came over there and started fussing at me because he said I was wasting water. And I was like wasting water, are you serious? And he said, yeah, you don't pay the water bill. So I was like look, I pay rent and Anyways so it's just because you were cleaning the same evening when we clean the sink.

Speaker 1: 31:16

So I said, happy, I eat out of this sink. And he was like you know, eat out of the sink. I said, look, if the lady makes the food, you give me a dish. That's been washing this nasty sink and I sit out there and I eat off the nasty dish. Then I mean now the sink. So I'm finna clean the sink. Like we can go talk to Joe, we can do whatever we need to do, but I'm finna clean the sink and I promise I'll try not to use much water. I mean, happy was not happy. No, he wasn't.

Speaker 1: 31:41

There was one day because we had chores and your chores changed every week and they were all stupid chores, they weren't like of course they were because there were so many people there like your chore, like your chores to the vacuum, the square in the living room, which took about four, four minutes. So my chore for this week was to sweep the back steps. Well, I asked Joe. I said sometimes I'm like raring to get out here in the mornings and if everybody's already locked down, can I do my chore the night before. If it's like sweeping the steps, I mean how stupid is that? So, yeah, james, you know whatever, because Joe wasn't like that, he didn't needle you about something like that.

Speaker 1: 32:18

So I swept the steps. They weren't even dirty, but I swept the steps. The next morning I'm leaving to go to work and he comes screaming out of the front door. He didn't know your chore. So I was like, yes, I did. And he said you get back here right now. You get back here right now. And I said look bro, I'm. I did the chore. I did it last night. I can't. If I do it again, it's not gonna make a difference. I'm going to work. If we have a problem when I come back we can talk to Joel. The three of us can have a little meeting, but I'm not coming back in there to sweep the steps that I've already swept again. I'm out.

Speaker 2: 32:50

And he was just like but I ended up getting like Stress and anxious just hearing.

Speaker 1: 32:57

I ended up having a soft spot for him, though, towards the end, because there was a he would like try to lead the little Devotions. And he like came up with this pyramid thing. You know, you need to do this pyramid, that pyramid and I was like I've already did all that. I mean, there's no reason for me to go back and try to do all that again. I've been doing that the last three and a half years. And so he got aggravated with me. And then Joe was like yeah, he's one of those people that believes that he's redeemed by Jesus. And it was like a cut down, like I was being some kind of weirdo. I'm just like. I'm just not doing all this, like I'll participate, I'll share my story if you want to hear it, but he was like laboring to make people follow Jesus.

Speaker 2: 33:43

Well, not to be okay, but it does sound like the way you're telling the story. It does like sound like you had major attitude. I did a little bit but not.

Speaker 1: 33:54

but it wasn't like a attitude like I need to, like I'm better than you, or Cause it's the way you're telling it.

Speaker 2: 34:00

I mean no offense, it's just like I don't need you. Y'all are all dumb. I'm doing my thing.

Speaker 1: 34:04

I may have come across like that, but that was not my intention. It was like he was trying to force me into doing something that I've already done and I was like Joe you know I've been working with Steve for 18 months, you know I've already like, why would I go back and do that? But towards the end he had like a meltdown, happy one day and he was cussing and kicking and screaming like pitching a fit, like Lili pitches a fit when she gets mad, or like Judah does when he don't get his iPad.

Speaker 2: 34:31

Well, they don't cuss, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:33

Well, but he was cussing and screaming and I was like Abby, what does the matter with you? And he's like I'm trying so hard and I'm so tired and I'm trying so hard to get these men to follow God. So I said Hoby, I mean Hoby. I said Haby, you can't make people follow God, like God don't even want to make. He don't even make us. Why would you try to make us? Like that's not the way to do it and even if they do it, they ain't gonna really be doing it anyways. Right, so relax a little bit. But he was like one of the super spiritual guys. He would talk about spirits and anointing and all, and I just he fasted a lot and I just wasn't into all that.

Speaker 2: 35:13

No.

Speaker 1: 35:14

I'm just not. That's not my. I'm not going in that direction. So but overall it was a good experience. I appreciate Joel and I did go back and help him. I helped him for years Like I used to would stay on the weekends, sometimes when they needed a like a relief person. I didn't like it, do you mean?

Speaker 2: 35:34

after you had moved out.

Speaker 1: 35:35

Yeah, I mean for years. I would go back, Even in like right before I met you I was doing something with Shepherds, Folk.

Speaker 2: 35:42

I was hiring them like Hiro's.

Speaker 1: 35:44

Like most of the people when I had the two restaurants, most of my guys came from Shepherds Folk or the Foundry that worked for you.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Yeah, that's cool yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:53

So, but Joel's a good man. He had a special grace to do his job. His job was thankless and I remember watching him like, ah, I would hate to do this job. Nobody even says thank you Like. And I would try to say thank you and I think he knew I was sincere, but it was. I was sincerely ready to leave.

Speaker 2: 36:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:09

And that I think I was supposed to be there till February, supposed to be there four months. So little, past the three months mark, they had a big influx of releases. The parole board just went crazy and let everybody out of prison. And he called me in and he said, james, you're not really doing this program. And I said, joel, yeah, I'm trying to work and get you know, I'm trying to get where I need to be, I'm trying to do the program. I love you, I appreciate you, I thank you. He said, well, let me finish. Don't you already have an apartment? So, and by this time I did, and I said yes, and he said they're letting a bunch of people out and you're already ready to leave. So it's okay if you go. And I was like, when can I go? And he said you can go now if you want to. And I said and you're going to tell my parole officer that? And he was like yes, I was like bye, I went and packed my stuff and left. I was gone. I went to Tommy and Brenda's house.

Speaker 1: 36:59

But uh, I have my own experience of that with working with the founder. You know, I worked there for five years. It's a hard job but I learned during that time like God gives you a grace to do that and it makes it a little easier, and but when the grace has gone it's time to move on. So but Joe's retired. Now I'm doing well. You know, I went to church with him for 14 years, 12, 13 years. We were friends. But I think one of the last things that happened before he retired, they took rent up every Friday and if you live there, you knew where he kept the rent money.

Speaker 1: 37:34

You know, it might be a couple of thousand dollars. Yeah, and somebody came in and robbed him at gunpoint and threw him on the ground and held a gun to his head. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1: 37:42

And I was just like, why don't you just leave, why don't you just? But he retired not long after that and then, um, I mean Shepard's foal is still around, but it's definitely not. It's not what it was then. It's more more business now than what it was then. But he's a good man. He's a very much a part of my story and I'm proud to call him my brother and I appreciate everything he did for me. That's awesome. But uh, how can we switch gears?

Speaker 2: 38:07

So is there anything else that stands out to you? So you're four months who are leaving, but during that four months, well, one thing we haven't talked about.

Speaker 1: 38:12

Well, I think we're moving ahead too fast.

Speaker 2: 38:14

Cause I well, what I was going to ask is we didn't talk about you seeing your family like different pieces of your like.

Speaker 1: 38:21

okay, so my first, um, my first weekend I was out. I needed to go and get my uh, I need to get my car. And then, you know, I had my stuff in my room for when I grew up had been packed up and put in a shed. So I had all that and I needed to see my mom. I want to see my me mom. I couldn't go see my granny because she was in Georgia and they told me I had to wait on the travel pass thing. But what ended up happening with that was, uh, she, she drove to Aniston one early Saturday morning.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Aniston Alabama.

Speaker 1: 38:54

It's halfway between Birmingham, atlanta, okay, and we just spent the day there, heard my cousin Boomer and me and Tommy, and it was great it was. It was wonderful, wonderful day. But then, um, I went to Phoenix city and I really didn't want to go to Phoenix city because there was some fear, because I was on parole, so any kind of like. If I had a EOS, my sentence I wouldn't have been worried about it. But when you're on parole, like, somebody can call the police and say you did something you didn't do or you know, just make some kind of complaint about you and, whether it's true or not, they can still arrest you real quick.

Speaker 2: 39:28

EOS means you would have finished your sentence but you got parole which means you got out early. So that's why you were so nervous about going back.

Speaker 1: 39:34

if somebody were to have feelings, I was more concerned about my cousin's family, the one I got in trouble with. Yeah, because there had been bad blood between his side of the family and my side of the family since we got in trouble, yeah, and then I knew he ended up getting more time than I did, I mean, but he was the point man with the gun Right and I knew he hadn't got out.

Speaker 1: 39:56

So I just I was scared, like I want to see my mom, I want to see everybody, but I'm just Phoenix city, it's like you didn't want to enter back into that.

Speaker 2: 40:04

No, I didn't want to get back in it.

Speaker 1: 40:07

I just, I just it's time to move on.

Speaker 2: 40:10

But you went there for a little bit to see your family.

Speaker 1: 40:11

We went for the weekend. I first somebody drove us down there I can't remember who drove us down there but then you say us Well, me and Tom I didn't still didn't have my driver's license. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 40:21

Because when I went to get my driver's license they said, oh no, you got a ticket. And I said I ain't got no ticket, I've been in prison. And they said, no, it's in Jefferson County, florida, monticello, florida. And I was just like amazed. That was the ticket that he wrote me for speeding when he pulled me over when they got in a gunfight. So it's like wow, you would have thought, like you would have just thought that somehow that would have got wrapped into that included in the prison sentence.

Speaker 2: 40:48

Prison sentence, probation, fines for all.

Speaker 1: 40:51

But no, I had to like send them a money order and pay the ticket and they had to clear it. It took like two weeks for them to clear me before I could get my license so that was weird, but I think it was. Tommy's wife drove us down. We went to my aunt Sue's house and stayed the weekend and then drove my car back. Well, he had to drive it because I couldn't drive back on Sunday.

Speaker 1: 41:14

And it was fun, but I was like on edge the whole time. I was nervous and scary and I was telling everybody we're not going to make announcements that I'm here. I mean, it was just to select a few people I needed to see. I needed you know. I was going to be staying with my aunt Sue and Uncle Vernon, and that was actually fun because it was the first time I met. They had adopted twin girls and I think they were four or five at the time Morgan and Megan, and I'd never been around twins, so it was their identical twins too and they were so cute they instantly fell in love with Jai.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Jai, that's what I mean, jai, jai.

Speaker 1: 41:49

But when I went to see my mom, it was not. It wasn't what I thought it would be I guess how so it was just sad and depressing. She lived in the same house that we lived in when I got arrested.

Speaker 2: 42:03

You would think that would be a happy reunion. Why was it sad?

Speaker 1: 42:06

Well, when I left there seven years before, my mom was thriving. You know confident woman doing her thing. You know outgoing.

Speaker 2: 42:15

You know mom was mama Hard like a rock star yeah but I remember she was like full of life. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:23

Everything that happened with me, I think Added to her. Like she was in like a depressed, like funk and then she fell and cracked Two of her things on her spine so she had to retire. Then she couldn't work and then there was a recovery period and then, during recovery period she started gaining weight. So she had always been like little petite and she was proud of her, proud of it. You know, saying so, my mom was a little bit on the vanity veins, I Mean but when she gained weight, she didn't want people to see her, so she just stayed in the house and it was the I just did.

Speaker 1: 42:58

I still don't.

Speaker 2: 42:59

I kind of understand that, but how long did she stay in the house?

Speaker 1: 43:03

For like three years.

Speaker 2: 43:04

Wow, she didn't go anywhere I.

Speaker 1: 43:07

Only if you made her like. After I got a person, I made her come to Thanksgiving with me at my aunt Sue's house and she didn't like it.

Speaker 2: 43:13

But so she was in the middle of this kind of recluse season.

Speaker 1: 43:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:16

You got a present.

Speaker 1: 43:18

Yeah, and then she she had got back together with her fourth husband, jeff, and he was like redneck, fabulous and we might have to define redneck fabulous for our non Southern listeners okay, the first place that they got us to live after they got together was a green and white trailer that was about 40 years old, sitting on some blocks on the side of highway and and nothing's wrong with trailers, no, it's just the location.

Speaker 1: 43:47

And then he drove a red. I'm not a red, it was an orange Volkswagen bus that was beat up and he, mama, didn't like it, so he got himself a little Dotson truck. He's letting me drive and I used to steal the Volkswagen bus. Sometimes I want to go somewhere. When I was a teenager, when they weren't there, he pulled that to the end of the trailer and that was his shed.

Speaker 2: 44:11

People pulled up in our yard.

Speaker 1: 44:13

It was. And then you know there was a you know Four or five pieces of Saudi. Throughout there's a barbecue grill tires. You know just, it was just making it work.

Speaker 2: 44:23

That was so is that where your mom was living when you went to go see her?

Speaker 1: 44:27

No, she lived in the house that we lived in.

Speaker 2: 44:29

Oh, because they were divorced.

Speaker 1: 44:31

Okay, they're four years and but no, we had a cute little house. I mean, I painted everything, fix it up, fix up the yards. But maybe before you, before when the prison yeah yeah, but now going back that they had turned into a redneck paradise. I mean it looked like a perpetual yard sale.

Speaker 2: 44:46

So you're saying, the house even looked totally different, everything was different, and my mom.

Speaker 1: 44:51

She was just, it was just so hard to see her and she just cried and cries this rules, it's really happening, you're gonna stay here. And I was like, no, I can't stay here. And she was like, why not? And I said, because Jeff has two sons and I know that they're both drug dealers and I can't be around on drug dealers because I don't gamble in my freedom.

Speaker 2: 45:10

Did they live there too?

Speaker 1: 45:11

No, but they were in and out over there all the time. I mean, my oldest stepbrother was like a notorious drug. Yeah, everybody knew he was a drug dealer, but he would. Okay, let me just say this quick this is redneck he. He had a trailer that he cooked up to the back of his car so it's the back of his truck that had lawn equipment on it like weed eaters and lawn mowers and stuff, and he would ride around with it so that the police would thank you as a landscaper. But he didn't even know how to crank a lawnmower. But no, I just I couldn't be around it and that hurt, that hurt her. But I was like mom, I can't be around this, I can't, you know, I'll see you. You think that she would understand that she didn't. She took it as a Like. I thought that Sue and burning, my aunt Sue and Uncle Bernie were better than her and I was like no, it's just there's no their stability, so I'm gonna be staying at their house.

Speaker 1: 46:00

I'm not gambling my freedom like if the police were to come over here Something happened. I'll tell them not to come over here. I'm like mama, I don't want to come.

Speaker 2: 46:08

I don't want to be here. Well, let me ask you this Did you feel so? You said, when you went into prison, your mom was full life and just felt more, I guess, herself. And then, when you came out, she was like in that season and broken the press. Did you take responsibility for that or do you feel like that was? Do you feel like that was because of you and what, what you did, and?

Speaker 1: 46:31

yes, in prison, yes, she's never been the same, that's a lot to carry, do you really?

Speaker 2: 46:36

I mean, I just think like.

Speaker 1: 46:38

I don't see it as like a responsibility thing, like I'm not well made idea for years Hold on.

Speaker 2: 46:44

flip the script so like would you like if we struggled? Will you want our kids to carry that?

Speaker 1: 46:50

It's their fault that we know I'm struggling so I mean you know when you flip it I mean her getting hurt, and you know that wasn't my fault right right, but I mean, but she was in a bad place already just dealing with me. I mean and I've said this before and go to prison, you take your family with you, but she was more, so probably most people, because, how do you say it, maybe she was a little co-dependent with me. I mean, because it was always like, especially after my brother was gone right. I was all that she had.

Speaker 2: 47:22

I was nothing else. There was nothing else, so yeah, but it's interesting to me and I'm just hearing this now for the first time just that even to this day, you feel like you carry that as like your fault.

Speaker 1: 47:37

Some what I mean it was.

Speaker 2: 47:40

That's sad.

Speaker 1: 47:42

I mean I'm forgiven now and you know. I'm had her own like redemption story after that and there was all good stuff. I'm not all good stuff there. Good stuff came out of that, but I Don't think I carry like as a weight like it's not I don't feel like or that need to compensate for it, or there's any, because, trust me, as the story goes forward, you understand. If there was any compensation need to be made, I made it.

Speaker 2: 48:11

I guess we'll hear about that later.

Speaker 1: 48:13

I didn't just make it once, but I made it over and over and over. All right well, where we're gonna go from here.

Speaker 2: 48:19

So Well, where we're gonna go from here is you said you had an apartment. We kind of brushed that, so you've done your three months, two weeks supposed to be for what you're gonna do. It's supposed to be for what?

Speaker 1: 48:28

you're going too fast.

Speaker 2: 48:29

Oh, okay, so where are we going next week with it?

Speaker 1: 48:31

I think we need to like next week We'll talk about, you know, like I was very involved in my church Then I I made my rounds with all the people that were volunteers and went to all their churches. Oh people trying to get me to come to their church. I mean it was a lot.

Speaker 2: 48:46

And then I wanted to show you off.

Speaker 1: 48:49

Yeah, and then there was like the Shepard's Fault Bank where that we had where they were there like supposedly to inspire us, but it was not really inspiring to me like it was. It was hard for me, but there I did actually meet Steve's daughter.

Speaker 2: 49:03

Well, steve's daughter, who was your girlfriend for a lot of years, right?

Speaker 1: 49:06

Yes, but not at that time. Oh, okay, so this is the first, so this is my third day out of prison, I went to Shepard's Fault Bank. What they're parading us through, you know, had on my new little polo.

Speaker 2: 49:15

I got from the world the church.

Speaker 1: 49:17

I mean that's what they do at those banquets. They do it this to raise money so they can keep their mission going. Okay, and I don't know, there was some chemistry between us and I thought girl, are you her? I mean, I got, I got like are you who, my wife? I got six pages. I got six pages in my vision about what my wife's gonna be in this. Is you?

Speaker 2: 49:38

I'll check about you the one you thought it was her.

Speaker 1: 49:40

I did. No, there was some, and she had, you know she oh, that would cause me untold heartache later on. But she has some little boy like holding on to her. I'm sorry, he was a grown boy friend and I didn't care. I was like, if that's my girl, I'm gonna get that girl. But uh, that we'll talk about that later. That ended up, you know, obviously she was not my wife when I would be doing a podcast with her.

Speaker 2: 50:07

And I wake up every day and give thanks to the Jesus for that.

Speaker 1: 50:11

But dad and then just you know like there was so much like learning how to get out in the world and Bank account Filing taxes, everything you know. I had to go get an apartment. I had never lived on my own before right so I had to get an apartment.

Speaker 1: 50:27

I had to do all things, and then Tommy was trying to help, but he was trying to help too much and he was finding me apartments that I didn't want and we'll get in all that next week. But this was how do we end this on the halfway house? I wanted to end it on a positive note. This was good for me.

Speaker 2: 50:40

Well, I think it was a positive note, because I mean-.

Speaker 1: 50:43

And I would recommend that anybody come out of prison, go to halfway house.

Speaker 2: 50:46

I think it just served you, in fact, of giving you a place to go to kind of start over as an adult and like kind of get a refresher course and get back on your feet.

Speaker 1: 50:57

I had to. I had to, it would have been I think, if I would have went Because I could have went and lived with Tommy and Brenda, like they would have let me live with them, but that wouldn't have ended well. I mean grown-ups, don't mean to live with other grown-ups.

Speaker 2: 51:09

And like real life too. I'll end with this. My dad used to like ask people the question would you prefer 100% security or 100% freedom? And you know people would answer different things for different reasons. But then he would go on to say I think that 100% security would be prison, because you have somewhere to sleep, every night, Somebody's bringing your food, so, like you're secure, I mean maybe not in terms of, but if you have 100% freedom, then which was you?

Speaker 2: 51:43

I guess going, then you have to make sure you're working, you're making the money. You're like having that bed to sleep in. You're working for your food, you're doing that. So I just I think really that was a segue between the security. In some ways that was for security and freedom. Would you say that the halfway house?

Speaker 1: 52:02

It was the step to freedom. Yeah, so, but but the problem with a lot of guys is they take that step and then they want to stay there for a little while.

Speaker 2: 52:10

Right.

Speaker 1: 52:10

And don't get me wrong, I was tempted. I had some temptations because I stayed with Tommy and Brenda for a little while while I was getting my apartment ready We'll talk about this in the next one. But they would have let me stay there forever if I wanted to, and I had to make myself not do that.

Speaker 2: 52:27

Isn't that such a life, though? I feel like we all get comfortable in different places we're at, and it's hard to move forward, yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:35

You can get stuck when it's becomes easy.

Speaker 1: 52:37

What interesting fact I had when I had Kairos. 99% of the people that I hired were either coming out of the foundry Shepard's fold or the Bethany house, and several people that came through and worked with me at Kairos got on. This thing called shelter. Care was where they paid your rent for you. If you do these meetings and I think I participated in like seven different, most of them were women that you know they got all their certification, they're paying their rent and stuff and they just quit after that, like my rents paid, I'm just gonna say I don't even need to work, mr James and I. Just there's something about that is it takes away the hunger or the desire to keep going and keep doing better when somebody else is doing it for you.

Speaker 2: 53:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:25

And it's um. It'll get you stuck. And there was something instinctively in me. I knew that like I have to keep stepping, I can't, I can't stop and I didn't, I feel like.

Speaker 2: 53:34

That's a profound truth. That's even applicable today to us everyone there. We have to just keep keep moving forward.

Speaker 1: 53:42

New season, yeah. New wine, new mindset that's good New, like what worked last year ain't gonna work this year. New wine, baby, yeah. So I'm bringing it up. Well, guys, thanks so much for tuning in. This has been. This has been one of the funnest ones I think I've ever done, because you know, this was my beginning of my freedom.

Speaker 2: 53:59

You know, I'm on the road, I'm on the road Just to be living it yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:03

And then we'll talk a little bit about work next week. Um, you know, going into a, find out an establishment and then the drama that went with that and stuff. I didn't know. You know, I didn't know what I didn't know.

Speaker 2: 54:14

But I learned it.

Speaker 1: 54:15

And then there's a lot of stuff about church folks that I didn't know, that I didn't know. Not pretty quick, but uh, anything to add We'll define church folks next week. Let's do that, maybe we'll put that on the career wheel.

Speaker 2: 54:29

Yes.

Speaker 1: 54:29

All right, thanks guys.

Speaker 2: 54:31

Thanks, see you soon, come on.

Speaker 1: 54:33

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prison podcast. For more exclusive content, head over to our website, tingjonesco slash podcast.

Speaker 2: 54:42

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's going to get you access to our for real real, which is very different than the highlight real some very juicy content there.

Speaker 1: 54:55

Good stuff. Or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison.

Speaker 2: 55:00

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level, where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been in. I've been loving it, and you know prison recipes.

Speaker 1: 55:12

Yeah, all the things Good stuff. We'll see you soon, guys.

Speaker 2: 55:16

Thanks, bye.