Life After Prison - A Deep Dive into Birmingham Alabama

Have you ever thought about how the places least expected could feel the most like home? Join us on this intriguing episode of Straight Outta  Prison, where our guest, James, takes us on a journey through the historic city of Birmingham, Alabama. We talk about the city's iconic Vulcan statue and how amidst negative memories from his teenage years, he discovered an inexplicable love for the city.

The episode is filled with tales of transformation - from James's life-changing interactions with his mentor, Marvin Carnes, to his experiences in various churches. There's a fascinating story about his stint as a waiter in a fine-dining restaurant, where he navigated the world of tuxedos and big tips while grappling with disillusionments in his spiritual journey. His encounters with multiple people, their influence on his life, his unpleasant experiences, and eventual realizations form the crux of this episode.

We'll also delve into James's church hopping journey, his commitment to the World Victory Church, and how he navigated misunderstandings and disillusionment. The episode wraps up with a sneak peek into exclusive content available on Team Jones's website. Prepare for an episode packed with captivating anecdotes, profound realizations, and a life-altering journey that will surely leave you hooked until the very end.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 5:03

Well, hey guys, thanks for tuning in to the Straight Out of Prism podcast. This is season three, episode three. My name is James K Jones and this is my story.

Speaker 2: 5:13

And this is Hailey Jones and this is his story that has now become a part of my story. Season three, episode three. That's hard to believe.

Speaker 1: 5:22

It is. It's crazy. We're on like we've taped like 26 of these things. No, but I never would have thought. I would have thought we could at least get it done in six, five, seven.

Speaker 2: 5:33

So basically that means a full 24 hour day. We've basically talked for over a whole day straight, that's crazy have you put them together. Yeah, that is crazy, but now it's kind of the fun part, I think, because we've talked about, you know, getting to prison, in prison, and now you're straight out of prison.

Speaker 1: 5:49

I'm straight out of prison. And this episode is entitled Birmingham because I'm moving to Birmingham, alabama, and it is crazy the way that I instantly fell in love with Birmingham, like I just it was, like I instinctively knew it was my home and everything about I loved everything about Birmingham.

Speaker 2: 6:08

So maybe we've covered this, but had you had any? You said you fell in love with Birmingham, but you had never lived in Birmingham before or had any exposure. Was there any family members that were in Birmingham?

Speaker 1: 6:21

Well, my dad had been in Birmingham from, I think from eighth grade he moved to Birmingham and my mom used to-.

Speaker 2: 6:29

You mean when you were in eighth grade, when I was in eighth grade?

Speaker 1: 6:31

Okay, yeah, and my mom used to force me to. She would put me on a Greyhound bus and send me up on the summer, and I hated every second of it. I hated the bus ride.

Speaker 2: 6:43

Which makes the love of Birmingham a lot. Yeah, it was crazy. More confusing, it was crazy or interesting, I should say.

Speaker 1: 6:50

If you go back to like I think it was. It was the episode where I was in lock up where I felt like Jesus said to me one morning when I was praying you're going to move to Birmingham, you're going to be my man in Birmingham. I was like Birmingham, there ain't nothing I want in Birmingham. But it was because I had such negative like feelings about it, because I remembered the summer after the ninth grade, going into the 10th grade, my mom made me decided that I was going to spend the whole summer with my dad and he got me a job doing landscaping with somebody. He worked for Southern Railroad, like he was. He worked on something called the Frog Shop I still never know what that is, but I came up and I spent. I think it was the first day. I woke up.

Speaker 1: 7:35

The next morning after I got here I got to Birmingham it was actually Irondale where he lived and he packed me like this big, like construction workers lunch box and he told me I was going to learn how to do landscaping and he sent me to this place and I was like 14 or 15. I was young but I was with all these like Mexicans and like grown men that were doing all this hard labor and I worked like a full day but I hated every second of it. And when I got to the end of the day, the guy that owned the landscaping place, he was like, son, you're doing good, but I think you're too young. You're too young for this type of work. And I was like I agree. But then my dad got mad at me and I think I spent two more days with him for I was like I need to go home, like this is not my place.

Speaker 2: 9:49

Home too.

Speaker 1: 9:50

To my mama, to Phoenix City.

Speaker 2: 9:52

Oh Phoenix City.

Speaker 1: 9:53

And I remember just his disappointment and I'm just feeling like I just wasn't good enough. But just like I hate Birmingham, I hate your house, I hate you, I hate your food, but you're only 14?. Yeah, I hate it was like they were trying to force something. They're trying to force a relationship on me that didn't exist, like I had no warm fuzzies about a relationship with your dad.

Speaker 2: 10:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:17

And I understand, like trying to make that happen, but it just it wasn't there. Like I had spent 14 years of my life without one. So like why do I need one now?

Speaker 2: 10:27

And there's definitely more to that story that we're going to unpack later. For sure, sure, sure.

Speaker 1: 10:33

But it was. But it was amazing to me that after I was like I'm going to be, like I'm going to be like, I moved to Birmingham in 1999. I guess not divorced for my dad, because I did make contact with him but that I fell in love with Birmingham. I fell in love with the history, I fell in love with everything about it, like I just loved it because it was like I grew up in Atlanta and my heart always longed to be in Atlanta because that was you know, I guess you know this where you grew up, this is where you're and this is where my granny was and my grandfather, my auntlynison, denise, and all the people that I loved. But there was something about Birmingham that was like Atlanta but not it was like for me, birmingham was like a collection of small towns just all pushed together, whereas Atlanta was like this big metro, like you know, just everything happening.

Speaker 2: 11:28

So there was a familiarity, but also it was different, something new.

Speaker 1: 11:33

Well, I didn't really have any familiarity as far as like I never came and visited my dad and stayed in Birmingham long enough to care, right, like I didn't. I remember him taking me to see the Vulcan when I that time, when I came, and it was, I guess, when you say what Vulcan is, so Vulcan was a like a Roman god or something of steel and there was a statue erected and it's like standing over Birmingham, you can see them, you know.

Speaker 2: 12:04

It's kind of like a tourist spot because there's a little park and you can go, I think, up an elevator and stand and kind of oversee the whole city.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Yeah it's just neat. It's neat. But he took me there one time and I was like I don't care about this, like I don't know why I'm here. But then, after this came, I moved to Birmingham. Then all of a sudden, like this is neat, like I love this, I love everything about it. I started studying the Vulcan. I found out it was the largest cast iron statue in the history of the world and you know just like everything about Birmingham.

Speaker 1: 12:34

In 1999, when I moved here, I just fell in love with it and I started studying the history. You know they called Birmingham it's called the Magic City, and the reason why it's called the Magic City was because at the turn of the 20th century there was nothing here but woods. But then, because of the Industrial Revolution and the steel and all that stuff, there's iron ore in Birmingham and all these steel mills sprouted up, and so they called it the Magic City because one day there was woods and the next day there's skyscrapers. So that's why, you know, I fell in love with the city and I knew this was my home and it was where I was supposed to be and I was just gonna figure it out.

Speaker 2: 13:16

We're gonna move forward, but I do. It's kind of neat to think that Birmingham just what you're saying is that Birmingham was never different. It was the same, but like the exposure you had when you were 14 with your dad, it was not good. But all of a sudden it's a new season a new time, a new lens, and you come back to Birmingham, which is the same Birmingham, but all of a sudden it's very exciting and new and you want to learn all about it.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Well, now it's my town, it's my home, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is what I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 2: 13:45

So, speaking the last several or a few minutes of the last episode, we talked about how important it was to just keep stepping and the next steps, and I mean you had some things established. You know you had finished. Well, I'm a plan, my program, Right you're plan, but then also, I mean, I just want to talk more about what did that keep stepping? Look like so you were coming out of your brothel. I was about to say brothel, Brothel.

Speaker 1: 14:16

I wasn't a hooker.

Speaker 2: 14:18

You're a halfway house.

Speaker 1: 14:20

I was trying to apologize. I don't know where I came from.

Speaker 2: 14:23

I think I was like halfway houses and brothels. You're thinking of the?

Speaker 1: 14:25

hostel. You're thinking of the hostel Cause the last episode. You said, you said the hostel.

Speaker 2: 14:29

Yeah, but brothel is totally different, I don't know what. Okay, so you kept stepping, you were keeping the step and it was important and I agree with all that. So what were the steps?

Speaker 1: 14:43

Well, I think one of the defining moments for me, my first three or four months out of prison. I had so many people trying to help me. I had people like just all the volunteers that I knew in prison, just like gathered around. I was never bored and I tell people this like get involved in a community because if you have like idle time you can get, you know things, can, you can do stuff that maybe you don't want to do, but somebody was always coming to get me, somebody was always helping me, somebody was always you know come, you know come here, come, do this, do that. And I never had adult moment my first three or four months. But one of I guess the defining like moments was my one of my mentors, marvin Carnes. He took me and bought me my first pair of glasses because I had to have. You know I wear. I can't pass an eye test to get my driver's license without glasses or contacts.

Speaker 2: 15:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:43

And he asked me you want contacts or glasses? And I was like I tried contacts when I was a kid. I hated them, so I guess I'm in glasses. So he took me and bought me glasses. You know like like they're paying for all this stuff. So it's like there's nothing, I'm not paying for anything, like people are just like giving me stuff, blessed, helping me, blessed me, blessed me and he was actually giving me rides back and forth to work when Tommy wasn't or somebody, or Jimmy or somebody, cause everybody was trying to help me, to keep me from riding the bus. While I was, I had a car, but I couldn't have my car until I got my license.

Speaker 1: 16:18

So I saved my account, lost up the Jolla setup. But Jimmy Dunn had taken me and introduced me to the world of the thrift store. Like where I came from, we had thrift stores but it wasn't anything you wanted in there, it was just like all, just like old stankin' stuff. But he took me to the Alabama thrift store in Center Point and they had like rows and rows and rows of like men's clothes and you could buy like a pair of Levi's for $3. And that just freaked me out. Like this isn't, oh, like I need to know about the thrift store.

Speaker 1: 16:57

But I bought a bunch of like church clothes but the length was too long so I needed to get the pants hemmed. And Marvin Carnes was taking me somewhere or picking me up from work or something like that, and I mentioned to him like I got all these pants like where'd he go to get pants fixed? And he was like you take them to the cleaners. And I was like, well, I need somebody help me with that. And he said, james, you got a job. Now you got your own money. You need to take them to your own thing. And it kind of stunk the way he said that.

Speaker 2: 17:30

I think you talked about this last episode.

Speaker 1: 17:32

No, I didn't, it was the one that we taped up. We didn't tape. Oh, we actually taped one and Haley had her microphone turned around so we had to re-tape it. So we didn't.

Speaker 2: 17:45

But I wanted to get this in here, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:47

Cause this was a defining moment for me, those first three, four weeks I was out of prison. Was he just kind of looked at me and said you need to, you need to man up to your own thing you don't have to pay for your own hemming. Okay, yeah, no, but I mean it kind of hurt, it kind of stung the way he said it, but it like jerked me back into reality, like these people are helping me, but they're helping me take a step, but I gotta take care of myself.

Speaker 2: 18:16

Right.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Like I can't depend on people to do stuff for me. And it was just and I look back on that now as like I'm so glad that I had him that he just like basically told me you need to man up, like I'll help you, but you know it's only I'm gonna help you so much, but then you gotta do your own thing. You got a job now you figured out. And I appreciate that. And, honestly, guys that I've worked with coming out of prison and coming out of addiction when I worked at the founder, stuff like that I'm like that, like you need to, you need to man up, you need to figure it out Like you need to. I'm not doing it for you.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Right.

Speaker 1: 18:58

Because if somebody's doing it for you, you're always gonna let them. And then you. I feel like that's a trap.

Speaker 2: 19:03

Yeah, and it's a human nature too, I think, I mean.

Speaker 1: 19:06

Well, it's easier to let somebody do something for you and in my position, like where I was, like I had all these people inviting me to come to their churches and do all the things, like I could have easily went on the circuit like Chris did when he got out, you know, going around telling them my testimony and trying to get donations, but I realized it was a. It wasn't just Marvin, though. Steve Longacre was like that too. He let me know, like James Jesus don't need you to be a superstar. Okay, he's the superstar. So whatever you do needs to point to him. But don't get caught up into that. And I did. I felt what's the word? I'm like like beholden, like I needed to go and at least make one contact with all the volunteers that helped me. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 19:57

You mean the volunteers that, like, helped you as you were getting out and then, when you got out, yeah, okay. So, Like with the clothes in your room and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Well, I mean I had. The church that I went to was World Victory Church. That was my church.

Speaker 2: 20:09

So beholden, you felt like obligated, maybe obligated yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:14

I felt like I needed, at least one time, visit them with their church and you know, be able to. You know, let them show me off or whatever. Show you off. Well, now that's what people want to do. It's weird.

Speaker 2: 20:26

I know what you mean. It's almost like though oh yeah, I don't like that, but I mean, and I, but I also understand it. It's like the like. Oh, here's.

Speaker 1: 20:36

But for me it was a respect thing. You know. I want to acknowledge that you've been a part of my journey and I want to show respect and I want to appreciate you.

Speaker 2: 20:45

Right.

Speaker 1: 20:46

But somehow that got complicated in. Like a lot of these volunteers, they wanted me to be a part of their church, Like they want to be me to be a Methodist or a Mennonite or a whatever. So I explained to my pastor and the little Tommy and all the people at the World Victory Church I need to like I'll come to the Wednesday night service but then, like on Sundays, I need to knock these out. I had about six. I think it was my first six weeks.

Speaker 2: 21:17

I just I need to knock these out.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Well, no, I just I wanted to get it done Like I wanted to show my respect you felt obligated and you wanted to do what you felt like you should do.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Yeah, but you wanted to get over with. At the same time, I did.

Speaker 1: 21:30

Yeah, let's just want it done. Be done with it. No, because I knew I was not going to any of these big religious churches. I was not. That was not who I was. That was not.

Speaker 2: 21:40

Define religious churches.

Speaker 1: 21:43

Just like the big, like Mathis church, big Catholic church, big even Steve church, the midnight church, like I'm not, I'm not into all that, I'm not doing any of that. I think the first one I went to was Sam Absent's church. He was an older guy that came in, he was a Kairos man, he was like in his eighties, oh wow. And he was a sweet man and I love Sam. You know I can't tell you how much I love Sam Because Sam loved me and not just that, he loved me, he loved inmates. He was in West Jefferson three, four times a week. He didn't preach to people, he led Bible studies and stuff like that and he was always wanting to tell people about Jesus and he did Kairos and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 22:23

But I went with him and his wife, I went to the Methodist church and they were so happy to have me and you know I didn't feel a lot of pressure from him because he kind of knew me. He kind of knew me because he led like a Methodist Bible study one time and I gave him some kickback on that in the honor norm Because, like, some of the stuff they were saying, you know, was not like accurate as far as like the scriptures. Yeah, I wasn't being an antagonist, but I was like that's not right, like. And then I remember me and him. We got a little back and forth in front of everybody and then I showed him from the Bible that that whatever, that little Methodist Bible study was not correct. And he was like, oh, I never read that. So I mean he was a good man and he loved me and I love him. So I went to his church.

Speaker 2: 23:15

Well, tell me this like you went to his church and like this obligation that you felt, does this mean like you were supposed to like, speak the churches when you went, like, or what? What did you feel obligated to do besides visit? Just go, just go, okay.

Speaker 1: 23:28

Steve. I'm so thankful for Steve Longenacker because he had worked with so many men come out of prison and he knew that if you get out of prison and you get on the superstar testimony circuit that you're going to crash and burn. And he told me that, like you can't be a superstar, you either. You're not. Jesus did not redeem you.

Speaker 2: 23:50

Oh, I got out of prison, I'm redeemed or like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 23:54

Well, but you-.

Speaker 2: 23:55

I'm trying to define the superstar syndrome that you're talking about. Well, you Some people don't know, but-.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Okay, well, a superstar syndrome is kind of what Chris did. You go around, you tell your testimony, you take it by offering and people give you money.

Speaker 2: 24:06

This sounds so silly to me, but I guess it is no, but it's not even the people is.

Speaker 1: 24:12

I've watched this happen since I've been out so many times with people that crash and burn. It's not their fault, it's the church people, it's their fault. Like y'all set them up to fail, like there's no, that's your fault. But I had three or four people in my ear telling me this is not what you're creating, this is not who you are, this is not what you're made to do. And I didn't do it. I refused it.

Speaker 2: 24:35

So you didn't like? Oh, I'm gonna stand up in front of the congregation. I didn't do it, yeah, so you were just going just to be like thank you for your support in the background when I went to the Methodist church.

Speaker 1: 24:47

It was to respect Sam Absent and the work that he did in prison, and I felt like I didn't just represent me. I felt like I represented all the men in white and that's what I did.

Speaker 2: 25:00

I went in white.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Well, that's what we called ourselves.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 25:05

Oh yeah, in prison because we had white uniforms in Alabama's department of corrections. So we caught ourselves, the brothers in white.

Speaker 2: 25:13

I didn't know that Well no, it's kind of mean. I mean it reminds me of the movie Men in Black, but y'all were the men in white.

Speaker 1: 25:18

We were the men in white. Well now, if you fast forward to 2013, when we started going to church of the Highlands surely you remember this, but I remember I just started crying and weeping it was when they got into Donaldson Correctional Facility with their prison ministry. Do you remember that?

Speaker 1: 25:35

Well, tell me it was the first year we were at Highlands but I started weeping in the service and you were like what's the matter? And I was like I just feel like finally, like my brothers in white that are at Donaldson are experiencing the same church service that I am, and it was just crazy to think that Because my heart never left them, like my heart still with them. But I went to Sam's church and then at my, I think, my second church I went to and this one's funny because you know I talked about Jimmy, dunn and Walter like they were big in the Catholic church, me and Walter not so much. Walter came and picked me up one night and took me through. He gave me a ride through Birmingham in his brand new Ford Escort he was so proud of, but it was at night and I was just, it was like downtown Birmingham, southside the UAB, all that stuff, and I was just like, wow, this is the big city. It was like I was in New York but I mean I know it wasn't, but it felt like that to me.

Speaker 1: 26:38

But then Jimmy and I became really good friends. Like probably the first five years I was out of prison he was probably one of my best friends besides Tommy. They were both Deacons in the Catholic church and I don't fully understand what that means because I don't fully understand the Catholic church. But I know that if you get a title in the Catholic church it's a big deal. But I spent the weekend with Jimmy, his wife and his daughter, and we went to Catholic church that Sunday and there had been a conversation the night before was that you know, I know that Catholics don't let you take communion unless you're, like, confirmed as a Catholic. And so I was just saying you know, I know I can't take communion at the Catholic church. And he said James, you know you're more Catholic than most Catholics that I know. So he had a weird like deal because his wife was. I forget what they called it, they called it a something.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Like she had a title in the Catholic church.

Speaker 1: 27:43

She was one of the people that stood up there and gave the bread and the wine at. The priest blessed it. So he said, if you can take communion, if you want to just go to my wife, and I was like, okay, so we get to Catholic church. It was a beautiful church, beautiful service. Jimmy actually did was the minister of music, so he played on these like, or he played this organ, it's like, but it wasn't like the Baptist church where they have a little piano or it was like the pipes went through the ceiling, it was. It was beautiful, and he was the one up there like getting down the organ or whatever.

Speaker 2: 28:19

Getting down at the Catholic church.

Speaker 1: 28:22

But I was taken back by how many times we had to stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down. And then they wanted to do all this repeating and you know. And then they passed the offering plate like seven times. I'm like how many times. I mean how much money y'all got. I mean what's happening here? But we went down there, took communion, I took the bread and then I took the wine and it was real wine. So you know, I'm straight out of prison, like I haven't had anything to drink in like 10 years probably, and I got a buzz like for the wine.

Speaker 2: 29:00

I was like whoa From the communion wine?

Speaker 1: 29:02

Yes, it was strong wine. It was not. It wasn't like it was wine, it was like it was close to whiskey. I mean, I don't know, I don't know about that.

Speaker 1: 29:12

But no, but I got a buzz Like I almost stumbled back to my thing. No, yes, I did, I did, I promise. But I was also like struggling with, like guilt, because you had to sign a thing in Shepherd'sville that said you wouldn't drink alcohol. And I was like I'm afraid I'm getting trouble. And Walter was like relax, change, relax.

Speaker 1: 29:29

But then after the service we were waiting on Jimmy and his wife to get done, cause they work there or whatever, and we were standing up at the front and people would walk by and like bow down, like the people would just walk by and just bow down and there was nobody up, because I noticed they were bound down to the priest, but they were just walking by, just like bow down, bow down. And so I was like what are they doing? And he was like oh, they're referencing the Ark. And I was like the what he was like the Ark, that's where Jesus is. And I was like where's Jesus? And he was like well, the priest made the bread turn into the body of the Jesus and the wine turned into the blood of the Jesus and then the leftovers we put in the Ark. So that's why they're bound down. And so I was like do you believe that? And he was like yes.

Speaker 2: 30:25

I do.

Speaker 1: 30:26

And so I said Jesus isn't me and he was like I know it's cause you took communion and I was like no, no, hold up, bro, jesus wasn't me before I came in here, like communion is like symbolic, and he was like no, I don't believe it, you don't believe in the transformation of the communion of the elements. And I was like no.

Speaker 1: 30:46

I mean I know it's like symbolic and the Holy Spirit is present and all this stuff. But he got angry with me like incense, that mean. He was like you're just giving me Protestant propaganda. So I was like Walter, I'm not, I'm protesting the Protestants. I don't care about Catholics or Protestants or any of this stuff, I'm just trying to follow Jesus. And he got so upset with me and so aggravated with me that that was pretty much the end of our relationship me and Walter, not me and Jimmy. But it made me never want to go back to the Catholic church again.

Speaker 2: 31:20

That's sad. I hate that.

Speaker 1: 31:22

Well, no, I didn't. I never, I mean, I've been to like weddings.

Speaker 2: 31:25

No, I hate that. It was the end of y'all's relationship.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Well, he got so bothered because I mean, I know there's like different beliefs on communion, like one is that it's symbolic, one is that the body. And like I'm like, do you really think that God's going to give a priest or any other human being a power to do that? I mean, I just, I just don't, I don't believe that, I believe that it's symbolic, I believe that it's important, I believe that we should do it because that was commanded by Jesus and it was commanded by Paul in the New Testament, and that we should. You know, we did communion in our church at least once a month, but there's no like magic in it. I don't it doesn't. You don't have to go to the hocus pocus stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:08

But that was interesting to me, but it didn't affect my relationship with Jimmy. He you know he didn't have a problem debating things like that. Then I went to the. I went to the Word of Life Christian Center with Gil Franks and he and Randy, I mean they were like a big part of you know, before I got into the church, you know before I got out, and when I got out and they were like what can we do for you? And I was like I'm, I think I'm good, you know everything's done. And they're like do you have a car? You know, we can help you get a car. And I was like no, my mom had a car. And then I don't even think I told him, I think Tommy told him like that he needs new tires on that Acura legend or whatever it was that I was driving. So they actually called him and was like take that car down and so and so and they'll put new tires on. They like took care of all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 32:59

But then when I went to the Word of Life, the Word of Life Christian Center, it was a church, it was the Word of Faith Church in Birmingham. It was actually a center point. I knew the pastor I'd listened to like all of his teachings, but I just knew that that was not. That was not where I was supposed to be, so I wasn't going to try to be there. But there was a little bit of pressure from them like what do we think you should be here? And I was like I think I should not. I've already found my church is the World Victory Church in Vestavia, but I went and during the state was like one of those big. It was like a very formal service but I was chewing gum and apparently according to the Word of Faith people, that's a cardinal sin. Like you don't chew gum during the service. But somebody came up to me during the service and said I'm going to need to get your gum and I was like what they?

Speaker 2: 33:49

wanted to just spit it out in their hand or something.

Speaker 1: 33:51

No, they came with a napkin, like I'm going to need you to give me your gum, and I was like what are you talking about? And they were, like pastor says, gum chewing disturbs the anointing. So I was like, are you serious? But so I gave him my gum. But I was like I'll give you my gum but I won't be back. But there was a little bit of pressure for me. I think Gil actually took me back to meet. It wasn't the pastor, it was the pastor's son, like you know, to tell all the things. And I was like you know how I am when I know I'm supposed to be doing something, I'm not going to be doing anything else. So it didn't really sway me. And then I think the last church that I visited was Steve's church, and you know I love Steve. I had a uh this is Steve Long.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Steve Long had a deep relationship with him. But what I found out after I got to the Shepherdsville was that Joel Brumbach went to church at Steve's church. Happy, the guy that drove me crazy, the little assistant man. Happy he went to Steve's church.

Speaker 2: 34:53

I feel like I need to say his name like that every time Hobby, hobby, hobby.

Speaker 1: 34:58

Happy was a trip. Happy was a trip. But they all went to Steve's church. But Steve was, um, he grew up Mennonite and he had taken over that. It was called Southside Mennonite Fellowship and it was a Mennonite church that met in Birmingham but it was in a house, because you know, mennonite church, you know I ain't meeting people that want to be Mennonite. No, seriously, they're usually small like, and usually they're like related by blood and stuff like that, um, so that. But they met in a house on Southside and they outgrew the house. So Steve worked for UAB task where I had to go give him a p-test the couple of ones I did before I got set free from that bondage. He rented out the basement of UAB task on Sundays to have his church service. So that was the first one I went to. So I wasn't sure what to expect. I knew I loved Steve, I was connected to Joel, couldn't stand happy.

Speaker 2: 35:58

Didn't really know anything else.

Speaker 1: 35:59

But I knew that, like the, his daughter, sean, I was going there and I thought you know I need to hook up with that little something.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Oh, did we talk about that last week? We talked about it in the last one. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:09

I felt like she was. You know there was some connections there, yes, but when I went in it was like in a um, like a conference room. There might have been like 50, 60 people there, but they started the service with an open mic where they invited people to the open mic after worship.

Speaker 2: 36:28

Is that like karaoke open mic?

Speaker 1: 36:30

No, just where it's. They called it share time.

Speaker 2: 36:33

Okay.

Speaker 1: 36:34

And so I was like immediately like struck, like Steve, are you going to give people a microphone? Like I? I've been in prison. I know what happens in church services when you let somebody go Like it's just it could go. It could go all kinds of ways. But the first person that got up was an older lady who got up, was not sharing about anything except that she was making organic dog biscuits that were really good for dogs and very healthy for dogs.

Speaker 2: 37:04

So she was marketing her business.

Speaker 1: 37:06

She was selling her dog biscuits and I was just like this is not, this is not the place for me. I mean, I'll do this for like this one time, but like I'm wanting done, I'm out. And Steve and I had a conversation about that later where I was like there's nothing there for me. But he was like are you going to judge all of us by the dog biscuits and happy Cause? I was judging them by happy cause. Happy was crazy. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 37:35

But I feel like I want to find happy on social media. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 37:41

I haven't heard from happy moved away. He was part of Steve's church for years but he he had a problem with fasting. Like he would fast all the time. He had a problem with fasting.

Speaker 2: 37:53

Yeah, like I wish I had a problem with fasting.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Well, he was very skinny. But I remember the last couple of years that he was there, steve commanded him, said I'm your pastor, I'm commanding you to stop that, like stop fasting. But it was just that people just get like overboard on stuff like that. But I made all my rounds to all the churches and then I found out just about every one of them wanted me to be a part of their church. But I was already a part of a church. I was already committed. I felt like I knew this was where Jesus told me I was supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 38:24

So I was like what is going to do? Pause, what is committed to a church? Look like, like, how do you I'm saying for those like listeners who don't go to church, maybe never been a part of a church, when you say, oh, I'm committed to a church, like what does that even mean?

Speaker 1: 38:39

For me it means this is where Jesus told me that was my church.

Speaker 2: 38:42

Okay, that means that's where you're going every Sunday.

Speaker 1: 38:44

That's where I'm plugged in. That's part of the you know the body of Jesus is. You have to be connected somewhere and that's where I was supposed to be connected. So that was what I was going to do and I had had enough teaching on that. Like people that do church hopping Like I mean, even to this day 2021, I've been, I've been a part of three churches in my life. I don't run around from church to church.

Speaker 2: 39:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:13

You know things get hard, you push through, you figured out, you know, you do you.

Speaker 2: 39:18

Or you get offended by something.

Speaker 1: 39:19

You just have to push through what's that called Like bloom where you're planted. Yeah, like that was where I was planted, so I was going to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:27

And there were a lot of things about World Victory Church that disillusioned me and I didn't like and ultimately that didn't. It didn't last for like six months until I had to figure out what to do next, but I was determined that I was going to. You know, stick it out. But let's move on from the church stuff. Like I was very involved in my church. Tommy and Brenda were a big part of that. You know I met Mike Miller and charity Miller that Mike was the drummer on the worship team. He was the guy that been. He came in at West Jefferson. He was one of the volunteers. You know we were already friends and then I met his wife and they had two boys and then I feel like Miller is a very gifted media person.

Speaker 2: 40:10

He's actually helped us with our other.

Speaker 1: 40:11

Oh yeah, he actually does the intro for the for?

Speaker 2: 40:14

real, it's not the highlight, so awesome yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:17

It's the for real, real.

Speaker 2: 40:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:21

But where do we go from here?

Speaker 2: 40:22

Well, okay, let's move on from the church stuff.

Speaker 1: 40:24

Like I was, very I was immersed in the church world.

Speaker 2: 40:26

I was doing all the things and you know you're doing what you felt like you should be doing and what was right.

Speaker 1: 40:32

Well, but mine was a one and done. Like I'm going to visit all these, one and I'm done.

Speaker 2: 40:37

Right, okay, so let's talk about other things with the next steps. Okay, so you had your job.

Speaker 1: 40:43

Well, let's talk about the job.

Speaker 2: 40:45

Okay.

Speaker 1: 40:45

Because the job was amazing.

Speaker 2: 40:47

Yeah. So it was a fine dining and you were a waiter, which is something you had kind of challenged yourself to do, because you had you had been a cook, a chef, in the back of the kitchen and prep everything else except being a waiter.

Speaker 1: 41:01

So I had never worked on the other side.

Speaker 2: 41:03

Right, but it's interesting, though, then your first job was an actual restaurant that was very high end. I guess it was nice, yeah, and you had to wear I think you mentioned last time you had to wear like a tux, not a tux.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Oh, no, yes, it was a tux. You had to dress. I had a tuxedo shirt, a bow tie, tuxedo pants, you know apron and all things. It was very stressful living the halfway house, having to wash that every day and iron it.

Speaker 2: 41:28

Right.

Speaker 1: 41:29

I mean straight out of prison into a tux so many people. I did, but I was getting paid. I was making that money.

Speaker 2: 41:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:36

The job was fun. I think the funnest part was I was coming in. They had that had been a business forever but they had like shut down, remodeled and we're doing a total redo of everything and this was on 280. It was fancy, it was nice and the people that managed that. It was a lady named Lynn, her husband was named Pat and they had been in the restaurant business forever and the front of the house manager, his name was Nabil, he was a, he was from Israel but he wasn't Jewish, he was like Palestinian or something and he was full of it, full of what and then I asked him.

Speaker 1: 42:22

He would say whatever he needed to say to whoever to get whatever. But he took me under his wing. He taught me how to weigh tables and to this day, you know it was Nabil that taught me fine dining. You know how to serve, how to do all the things, but the restaurant was actually owned by a man named John Ed Willoughby, who they spoke of in these high, glowing terms. I didn't know who John Ed Willoughby was and didn't really care, other than you know he was the. He was the boss, apparently.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Like.

Speaker 1: 42:53

I mean not really like Pat and Lynn were the ones that ran the place, but John Ed Willoughby was apparently a radio personality but I wasn't from Birmingham so I didn't know, I didn't know who, I wasn't impressed by him and for some reason like the fact that I wasn't impressed by him and I don't know he took a liking to me. So every time he came in with his wife he asked for me to wait on him and so I became his like personal server and he tipped. I think he tipped like 40% every time. Wow, but he didn't actually pay. It was like a house account thing, right, and I just thought that was. He asked for me every it became.

Speaker 1: 43:38

If John Ed came in, it was James that was gonna wait on him and his wife was this blindheaded chick. You know she was pretty, you know, and it was always fun to wait on him. You know we'd chat all the things. But I think I'd been working there about a month when there was this big bustle in the restaurant that Mrs Willoughby was coming in with her entourage and this older lady with black hair with the big ball you know, the old lady hair. You want to come out.

Speaker 2: 44:12

A bun are you talking about?

Speaker 1: 44:13

No, it's not a bun, it's like a ball, like a big ball of hair. You know, she came flowing through there with like a glittering evening gown on and I was like who's that? They said that's Mrs Willoughby and Mrs Willoughby. And I was like no, that's not. And they were like yeah, that's John Ed's wife. And I was like I wait on John Ed and his wife almost every day and I was like no, that's his girl for it. So after that I was like I don't want to wait on you, no more.

Speaker 2: 44:45

Like.

Speaker 1: 44:46

I'm not into that, no, I mean it bothered me, like it, just like. Like you come through here with your mistress, with your hooker, every day.

Speaker 2: 44:56

Stop, no hooker.

Speaker 1: 44:57

It bothered me that, like, like this, I just don't think this is my world, like I need to find something different to do. But I learned so much when I was there. I learned how to, I learned how to do banquets, I learned how to wake tables, I learned how to and I made a lot of money, like it was the money that was coming in. It was insane for somebody living in a halfway house.

Speaker 2: 45:24

On.

Speaker 1: 45:24

Princeton Avenue in Southwest Birmingham.

Speaker 2: 45:26

But I mean.

Speaker 1: 45:28

I mean, I was able to, like stack it up. I was able to. You know, I paid my rent at Shepherd's Fold till I was done, like let me just give you all my rent be done. I saved up money. I was able to get my first apartment, which was I guess that was kind of complicated because Tommy was helping me and he kept.

Speaker 1: 45:50

I found out he had a lot of free time when he wasn't wallpapering or pastoring and he kept finding me these apartments that I didn't want, like he would find. He found me this one, I know the Lord Jesus, the spirit, spoke to me and told me this was your apartment and it was cause it was close to him. And I went and looked at it and there was no washer and dryer connections and I was like, why am I supposed to wash my clothes? And he was like, oh, they have a laundromat. And I was like, no, I'm not doing a laundromat. Like, no, like if I'm gonna get an apartment, I need to be able to wash my clothes. And so I had not a lot of standards, but I had. I guess that was the only one I need to be able to. They had to have a washer and dryer connection, I ain't going to laundromat, and he didn't understand that. But I was just like I know myself, like I need to be able to wash my clothes.

Speaker 1: 46:42

So everyone that he found I turned him down. But then in my vision that I wrote it said you will find a nice place to live in, a good area. So that like narrowed the gap for me. And so I would show him that like I'm supposed to find a good area, Like I'm not supposed to live where it's cheap, I'm supposed to find a good area. And he got aggravated with me but I was like I'm gonna hold out for the good area.

Speaker 1: 47:10

So what ended up happening was he had a cousin I forget her name, but she was renting a duplex in Kaba Heights, like three blocks from where him and Brenda lived in this big fancy neighborhood, but it was right behind the summit in Birmingham and it was a duplex, and she decided or got married or something. I forget what happened, but it was like one of those deals where it was a small real estate company on this property and you had enough somebody to get in and he was able to get me in and I ended up being able to rent that duplex apartment and it was $300 a month, which was insane.

Speaker 2: 47:49

Which is insanely cheap, yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:51

Well, in that area it's very insane, Right.

Speaker 2: 47:54

You know, like the summit in Birmingham is a very nice shopping center and it's a no, it's more than shopping center.

Speaker 1: 48:01

It's like an outdoor mall.

Speaker 2: 48:02

Yeah, I mean it's just a very high and nice part of town.

Speaker 1: 48:06

And it's multi-purpose, like there's a movie theater, there's restaurants, then they. But actually when I rented that apartment behind the summit, like what you see, the summit now was not there. The only thing that was there was that one side on the left. All the other stuff wasn't there yet. The lower stuff wasn't there, the apartments weren't there, none of the stuff on the right was there yet. It was just that little bit. But I was just ecstatic that I found that and it like the timeline fit in. She was moving out in January, I was gonna be done in February with Shepherd's Falls, so I had time to like get in there and get it ready. And you know it was only a little two bedroom, it wasn't anything, it's driving it, but it was a far cry from a prison cell.

Speaker 2: 48:48

It wasn't exactly what you needed it was perfect, it was where I was supposed to be.

Speaker 1: 48:54

And I lived there the first three and a half years I was out of prison, but when I first rented it I was still at Shepherd's Falls, so I had time, like I stripped the floors, painted. You know I'd painted everything. Of course you don't. Tommy wallpapered the bathroom for me. His dad came over, put down carpet in the bathroom because the bathroom floor was the- Carpet in the bathroom.

Speaker 1: 49:15

Well, the floor in there was looking kind of sketch and that was Tommy's idea. My dad can go and get some carpet and do his, but anyways, he did all that. But we remodeled basically the inside. You know, we did the kitchen, did all the things. I had to buy a stove and a refrigerator. It didn't have any of that stuff and then I had to get a washing machine and dryer. But it was just like a process of you know. You get all these things, get it all set up and get yourself fixed up.

Speaker 2: 49:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:46

And it was a huge blessing, I mean-.

Speaker 1: 49:49

Yeah, I mean that's and that was one of the things. My dad came during that time and he picked me up from Ross season was gonna. He said he wanted to show me Birmingham. And it was like, oh, I've been here a couple months, I've kind of, but you know, I was trying to like connect with him, honor my father, do those things. But what ended up happening? I think it was more conflict with us.

Speaker 1: 50:14

When we that first time we met, it was some practical stuff, like he, when we had communicated that I was missing out at prison, I told him my mom had a car. He said, well, if you, you know, come in when you get out, I'll pay for your first year of your insurance on your car, so you don't have to worry about that. And you know, I called him and it was like reminding him of that and he was like, oh yeah, that was, you know, six months ago. I'm not in a place where I can do that now. So I was like, here we go again.

Speaker 1: 50:43

But you know, I tried to connect with him. But he did give me some good advice during that time. I showed him my apartment that I got from the outside, cause that lady was still living there and he was like I think you need to don't worry about hitting home runs right now, you just need to hit base hits. And I was like I agree, you know, I just need to keep. You know, keep doing the next thing. But I mean, I did everything I was supposed to do. I paid my fines, paid my tickets, got my driver's license, got my car, you know, was working every opportunity that I could. And it was a neat. It was a neat time. It felt like everything that happened was good during that time.

Speaker 2: 51:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:29

It was almost like I had like the mightiest even at work, like I didn't know what I was doing but I was learning and you know this was a fine dining. So they did wine and all that stuff. So they're like I'd have wine tasting. I was like nope, can't taste. I promised you know I may.

Speaker 1: 51:44

Like I got drunk on communion I signed a contract, said I can't taste the wine, so I can't be tasting the wine. If you wake up a month I'll taste it, but not now. But I learned how to smell it. I learned how to use my nose and that served me well over the next. You know, even to this day I can tell if a wine is a good wine just by sniffing it. But I mean, that is part of like wine tasting is sniffing it. But I don't know where do we go from here?

Speaker 2: 52:15

Well, I mean, it sounds like it's funny because it seems like it's a season that cause we've talked about this before like everything comes in season. And then this season, just everything was moving forward and seemed to be like working out and falling into place.

Speaker 1: 52:32

Everything was good it seemed like everything I touched was good. You know church was good. You know I was at the halfway house and then I was spending the weekends at Tommy's and Brenda's and you know I fell in love with them. They love me, I love them. But then there was some conflict, stuff happened. It was like one way as long as I didn't have a car, but once I got my car I had a little bit more freedom and I don't know if I think I said this in the last episode, but when I got my car it was like I got a prison the second time, like cause, now I don't have to depend on nobody.

Speaker 2: 53:09

I can just.

Speaker 1: 53:09

I can ride, I can do whatever I want, and the first weekend that I had my car that I, you know, drove myself to work I had up to that time I've been dependent on Tommy to pick me up, like on Friday night, and take me for the weekend, and they were still doing their Saturday night. Wdjc radio show.

Speaker 2: 53:34

Who's they?

Speaker 1: 53:35

The World Victory Church. Tommy, okay, you know, and I got to be on the radio show one time and I thought that was neat.

Speaker 2: 53:41

What do they do on the show?

Speaker 1: 53:42

It was just an hour show where they just talked and it was called Coming to Me and it was a good show. It was what drew us into them.

Speaker 2: 53:48

But I remember Okay, but why are we on the radio? I feel like that's very random.

Speaker 1: 53:52

They had a radio show.

Speaker 2: 53:54

Okay, so the church you went to had the radio show.

Speaker 1: 53:56

That was how we got connected. Oh, okay, we started. You need to go back and listen to season two.

Speaker 2: 54:01

I probably do. You know, I have a short-term memory.

Speaker 1: 54:04

Okay, we also had a connecting but they had me on the radio show. But the first weekend that I had a car I was supposed to meet them at the WDJC. Okay, and so Tommy gave me directions to WDJC from Rossies, which was on 280. He said you go down, you get on 280, you take the first right and then left and then you're at WDJC.

Speaker 2: 54:26

So this is prior GPS. Yeah, I don't have any left.

Speaker 1: 54:30

So I got done with my shift. It was Saturday night, it was like 10 o'clock maybe. I got on 280. I took a right and I ended up in North Birmingham somewhere that I didn't want to be. So I got lost and I got scared and I didn't have a cell phone. So I turned around and I got myself out of there because I still didn't know my way around Birmingham very well. So I said, well, he gave me some like jacked up directions. So I just went home to Tommy and Brenda's house. I didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2: 55:01

Because you just couldn't find it.

Speaker 1: 55:02

No, I mean no, I'm just like. He gave me the wrong directions. I'm just gonna go home. You know I'm tired. I want to go to bed anyways, so I drove to their house in Kapa Heights. I get there Brenda's there by herself.

Speaker 2: 55:17

Real quick. This is prior to getting your apartment that we were just talking about.

Speaker 1: 55:21

Yeah, I was still staying with them on the weekends.

Speaker 2: 55:23

Okay.

Speaker 1: 55:24

So I get there, have my key, go in. She's there. You know, we chat a little bit. I'm just trying to get ready to go to sleep, I'm tired, I've had a long week. She comes in with the phone. She said Tommy's on the phone and he's upset. And I said about what? So she said I don't know. You need to talk to him.

Speaker 1: 55:45

So she gave me the phone and he was like brother, where are you? And I said well, I'm at your house. And he was like brother, you're supposed to be here. And I said I know, but the directions you gave me didn't get me there. It got me to a place in Birmingham that I didn't want to be. So I just came here and he said brother, this is not okay, you're supposed to be here.

Speaker 1: 56:10

And like, he got harsh with me and I was like who are you talking to? Like I was like what, what are you saying? And he was like you can't be in my house with my wife. And I was like your wife is like a hundred and seventy five years old. And so I got a.

Speaker 1: 56:25

I got offended, you know. I got like like what do you? What are you trying to say? Like, what are you trying to say. So he got like all lathered up, came Straight home, rushed in and started hollering at me about being around his wife and didn't. I know that that In the Christian world or the church world, that if a man had a wife and you weren't supposed to be in the house without the why and so I was like hold up, time out, time out. If you don't want me here, I'll never come back, like I don't know what's happening right now. But if you think I'm interested in your wife, like you need to, you need to read, you need to like Rewind and rethink, because your wife is old and I'm not. So I don't know, I don't know what's happening, but he was like coming at me but then the pastor of the world victory church came To confront my night.

Speaker 1: 57:18

Yes, to confront my behavior, because apparently in the Christian world, if you go to a house and the man's not there, you're not supposed to go in. I didn't know that. Then why did you give me a key to the house? You know what? So we had a blow-up that night and I was like I'm, I'm going by the shepherds flow, I'm not coming back. And then they you know they cried and all the things I'm sorry about. But then in the middle of it he said you wait till you get to be an old man like me and you have a wife, and then you have some young stud come in your house and I was like, okay, first off, I'm not a young stud, okay but you were, according to him.

Speaker 1: 57:58

I'm not a young son. I'm not gonna have sex with an old lady.

Speaker 2: 58:01

I'm not but that has nothing to do with you being a young side. Okay, whatever.

Speaker 1: 58:05

But I'm not even a young stud. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to follow Jesus and my wife.

Speaker 2: 58:09

I'm not trying to be.

Speaker 1: 58:10

I'm not out here.

Speaker 2: 58:11

They're accusing you something and you were like blindsided.

Speaker 1: 58:14

It wasn't me and then, but the pastor, sean, was telling me I was acting like Chris who had had sex with the Worship leader that was playing his organ and you know she was playing the organ of church. She's playing with his organ and I wouldn't in. That wasn't. I, was not Me, like I'm not doing that. And if I'm gonna do that, it ain't gonna be with some old lady. It's not gonna be with old lady. Like I don't even think that would even work for me, I don't even think I could make.

Speaker 1: 58:41

Okay, anyway, moving on so, anyways, I basically told them all you know, flipped them all off and, like you know, I can't go home tonight. I'll go home in the morning and I won't never be back here. But then Tommy came back to me in the middle night crying and it was like forgive me, brother, I just need you know I'm impotent.

Speaker 2: 59:04

I was like.

Speaker 1: 59:07

You don't understand. I'm impotent and I was like, but I know what that means.

Speaker 2: 59:12

What is that?

Speaker 1: 59:12

I have to do with anything, he was insecure because he had, like, some kind of weenie problem. No, I didn't know what he's talking about.

Speaker 2: 59:20

Did you ask. What does that mean?

Speaker 1: 59:22

Yes, like what are you talking about? But apparently he had like a weiner problem. He couldn't. But then the vagagra came out and they worked it out. But anyways. Anyways, it just made me like disillusioned with like church people like Okay, y'all are more messed up than Phoenix City. Okay, the only difference between y'all and Phoenix City is Phoenix City. We know we messed up.

Speaker 2: 59:49

What made you? What about that made you disillusioned with church people, because I think that's important. Cuz, I feel like like core there that made you so upset.

Speaker 1: 59:58

Just all of it, just kind of like don't accuse me of something, don't accuse me. If you accuse me of something I'm doing, I might like accept it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

So you wanted them to like ask questions.

Speaker 1: 1:00:09

I don't know. No, I wanted them. Here's the deal, and it wasn't just them. Okay, people in church are Are just as messed up as people in the bar. I mean because, no, no, I agree with that. I had so many women coming at me. I had women coming at me that were trying to get at me, but they weren't women that I Could get with, even if I wanted to like I couldn't. You need to get to the point, just that there's.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

It was just messed up and then I started what was messed up about it too, I'm trying to like, get to like what was just that they were trying to make something out of something, like they were trying to make me be something that I was not yeah. Bring Steve's daughter in there and say that I was trying to get at her, I would say, okay, maybe, yeah, guilty, yeah. Bring a 50 year old, 55 year old or some 700 pound overweight woman.

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

Okay, so it was kind of like fabricating things Because of their own insecurities.

Speaker 1: 1:01:18

Yeah, making up stuff right like I'm not that's I mean, even if I wanted to, I don't think I.

Speaker 2: 1:01:27

Can you like the hit man? Yeah, I don't know, it was just it was it, it started to fall apart.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

And then the things with Tommy started to fall apart because, like I was riding with him one time he got pulled over for speeding and when the officer came and took his drive, his license and insurance, he tried to give him his business card and the cop like was like I don't need that, that's, I didn't ask for that. And he was like, sir, I'm a pastor. And he was like, okay, give me a driver's license, like that's all I need. And he was like screaming at him, sir, my pastor, and I was like, tommy, what are you doing? He's like I'm letting him know my pastor, so I'm writing me a ticket. And so I said I don't think he cares. But then he wrote him a pastor anyways.

Speaker 2: 1:02:16

He wrote him a pastor.

Speaker 1: 1:02:17

I mean he wrote him a ticket but then it was that it was a you know, he tried to help me start a bank account one time and I found out he didn't have any money, this bank account, and I was like how do you live? Like you, live you any got? It was a $40 money order. I was trying to cash but you had to. He damn $40 in his account and I was like how you don't have $40 in your account? I mean little stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 1:02:44

And then it was like some things you started realize things weren't as they appeared.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

Yes, it started unravel and then, but come to find out I realized Over over time it took me three, four months to understand that was not his house that he lived in. That was his parents house. He had went bankrupt and His parents were trying to downsize so he talked them into moving the basement and letting them move up top. So that wasn't his house. He didn't pay the bills there. That was his mom and daddy's house and so that just like made me like what else is not like as it seems. Yeah, so just everything started unraveling and the stuff for the church started unraveling. I started getting aggravated with like I felt like Like I was the token convict, like they did prison ministry, so they need a token convict, so they're gonna put James out there. And Then the way that the pastor treated me in the way that not the other people, because other people were great, but it was just things just started on unraveling.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

So interesting, yeah, yeah sorry, I assume we're gonna pick up there next episode.

Speaker 1: 1:03:58

Yes, we're right at the end of that, so I think we'll start the next episode. I don't know where I'll start the next episode.

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

Well, the things started unraveling and just I mean maybe not everything, but just kind of like what's next?

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

I guess we can in the next episode will tell the release degree story. Okay, now I knew it was time for me not to be a part of the world victory church.

Speaker 2: 1:04:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:21

But it was. I mean, there was a lot of stuff that happened during that time. I had a lady that came to me during that time, that first Easter, and she said the Lord told me to buy you a suit. And I was like he did and I was like, well, praise the Jesus. And she took Me to like I think it was Parisians at that time and spent like $500 on a suit and shoes, yeah, but it was like there was something expected in return that I wasn't really like. It was like a almost like People feel like they have like some ownership of you. Then that they don't have and you know, you know me, nobody's gonna run me or own me.

Speaker 2: 1:05:02

I'm not.

Speaker 1: 1:05:03

I belong to Jesus. He is my king, but not you. So I guess that's where we need to have I been too negative on this one.

Speaker 2: 1:05:11

I'm just trying to tell like it is no, I mean, but I I actually think it's really good because I mean, things were going great, falling into line and Church and then this and you wanted to like to do, but then that things maybe just weren't as they seemed, which I think actually nothing was as a saint but I think that happens every day.

Speaker 2: 1:05:33

And like I mean social media, I mean one of my one of our good friends, lauren, actually on like, literally on her bio, and you would, I just think it's funny. She's like oh, I'm wife to this of this kids and social media is a liar. Social media was not in play here. This was before social, but it's the same idea of like people portraying a certain thing, or things are a certain way, or this is my life. But if you like, scratch the surface, you realize.

Speaker 1: 1:06:03

It ain't all that is on the facade.

Speaker 2: 1:06:05

There's something totally different is going on in her. Yeah, I mean it's fascinating because I feel like Even minus social media, that was still happening.

Speaker 1: 1:06:15

Oh, it was there's definitely. There was definitely a picture painted for me, right that when I got in there I realized that was not the reality. Yeah of what it was.

Speaker 2: 1:06:25

So we're gonna unpack that next time.

Speaker 1: 1:06:27

We're. But I had good mentors, I had people that me walk through that. So I mean, and Steve Long, and that girl was probably the biggest one during that time I remember he told me, you know, maybe Jesus had you go to that church just to show you what not to do, and I guess we'll pick up on that.

Speaker 2: 1:06:45

Gosh, I feel like my whole life is that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:48

Experiencing things show me what not to do We'll tell what's other relates the grease story on the next one.

Speaker 2: 1:06:55

Yes, I know you're excited about that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:56

That is your mom. Your mom asked me to tell that story. That is one of the funniest church stories ever in the history of all time. And Mike Miller, who's listening to podcast, asked me Are you gonna tell the release degree story? I was like you, better believe it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:15

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:07:17

We're over an hour, so we need to dial it back.

Speaker 2: 1:07:19

All right, stay tuned.

Speaker 1: 1:07:21

Thank you guys. See you soon. Thanks guys, bye. Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to the straight out of prison podcast. For more Exclusive content, head over to our website team Jonesco slash Podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:07:32

Yes, you can subscribe by clicking on the become a patron button and that's gonna get you access to our for real. Real, which is very different than the highlight.

Speaker 1: 1:07:43

Some very juicy Content there good stuff, or you can look us up on Facebook and Instagram straight out of prison Podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:07:51

Yes, that takes the story to a whole new level, where you can see some of the people that James talks about in his story and see some of the places that he's been. I've been loving it, and you know prison recipes. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:04

Thanks, we'll see you soon guys.

Speaker 2: 1:08:06

Thanks, bye, bye, bye.